The Knicks Stay Alive With Rob Mahoney and Joe House, Plus NFL Offseason Intrigue Rankings With Albert Breer

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast – Detailed Episode Summary
Episode: The Knicks Stay Alive With Rob Mahoney and Joe House, Plus NFL Offseason Intrigue Rankings With Albert Breer
Release Date: May 30, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast, host Bill Simmons teams up with regular contributors Rob Mahoney and Joe House to analyze the ongoing NBA playoffs, specifically focusing on the New York Knicks' performance against the Indiana Pacers. Midway through the episode, Albert Breer from Sports Illustrated joins the discussion to delve into the NFL offseason's most intriguing developments.

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2. NBA Playoffs: Knicks vs. Pacers Series

a. Game Analysis

Bill Simmons opens the discussion shortly after Game 5 of the Pacers-Knicks series. The conversation centers around how the Knicks managed to survive the Pacers' challenge:

• Rob Mahoney highlights the Knicks' improved defense:
  "I think they figured out how to play defense like they had something to lose..." (03:03)

• Joe House emphasizes the importance of the Knicks making consistent shots:
  "The Knicks did the thing that's most important in basketball, which is make the shots..." (03:44)

b. Player Performances

• Julius Randle:
  Bill praises Randle's performance despite the Pacers' defensive pressure, noting his crucial role in keeping the Knicks competitive.
  "I think the Knicks can come back from this." (07:39)

• Karl-Anthony Towns:
  Discussions revolve around Towns' evolution into a reliable playoff performer.
  "He's playing almost three minutes a game, more than three minutes a game, less than he did last year in the playoffs." (17:31)

• Tyrese Haliburton:
  Bill and Rob express concerns over Haliburton's inconsistent performances, particularly his subdued presence in Game 5.
  "Tyrese Halberton might need to step up." (19:05)

c. Coaching Strategy

• Tom Thibodeau:
  The coach's late-game adjustments and bench strategies receive commendation.
  "Having those guys in for meaningful runs where the Knicks are winning on defense..." (13:34)

d. Series Predictions and Implications

• The trio discusses the odds and potential outcomes for Game 6, leaning towards an Indiana victory but acknowledging the Knicks' resilience.
  "If you think the Pacers are going to bounce back and close it out against the Knicks..." (24:00)

• Rob Mahoney asserts Indiana's superior chances moving forward:
  "I think there's no question Indiana has a better chance." (59:36)

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3. NFL Offseason Intrigue Rankings with Albert Breer

a. Steelers' Quarterback Situation

Albert Breer outlines the Pittsburgh Steelers' dilemma in securing a quarterback post-Aaron Rodgers:

• Steelers' Confidence in Rodgers:
  The team chooses not to trade and is hopeful Rodgers will join, avoiding media speculation about his commitment.
  "They are pretty confident that their quarterback is going to be Aaron Rodgers." (72:49)

• Impact of Previous Season's Decisions:
  Discussion on how Rodgers' past interactions with the team influence current negotiations.
  "Aaron was really affected by the way his trip to Egypt was covered last year." (75:10)

b. Cowboys' Trade for George Pickens

Breer analyzes the Dallas Cowboys' recent trade to acquire receiver George Pickens:

• Trade Implications:
  Concerns about Pickens' fit within the new offensive scheme and his contract year performance.
  "Is he going to be okay with that just because we got another receiver?" (88:49)

• Future Outlook:
  The potential for Pickens to either excel as a complimentary receiver or struggle under the new system.
  "If he's not getting the ball a month or two into the season, you could have a problem." (91:18)

c. Derek Carr's Retirement and Steelers' QBs

The unexpected retirement of Derek Carr has left the Steelers in a precarious position regarding their quarterback prospects:

• Steelers' Limited Options:
  With limited viable quarterbacks available, the team faces strategic challenges moving forward.
  "If you supercharge their defense and also supercharged Allen Iverson and that's not a formula that we're used like wrapping our heads around..." (47:12)

d. Vikings' Quarterback Conundrum

Breer discusses the Minnesota Vikings' uncertain quarterback future following injuries:

• JJ McCarthy's Recovery:
  The team's reliance on McCarthy's return to form amid high expectations.
  "I think they have a chance to have the best offensive line they've had in over a decade." (90:46)

e. Houston's Defensive Prowess

Highlighting the Houston Texans' strong defense and potential for a significant bounce-back season:

• Defense Strength:
  Emphasis on Houston's top-tier defensive players and coaching.
  "They really do break teams during a series. And they brought in all three series." (48:55)

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4. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Bill Simmons on Defense:
  "They brought that side out of him to the point that like Mitchell Robinson at some points was pressuring Miles Turner up to half court like they just wouldn't let him move at all." (05:53)

• Rob Mahoney on Julius Randle:
  "This was the thing he tends to be. He tends to be the guy who comes into the playoffs and just immediately disappears." (07:39)

• Joe House on Team Strategy:
  "Can we pour one out for Miles Teller though, who was next to Timothee Chalamet. Couldn't even get the broadcast shout out. Like he was just the normal guy sitting to the side of Timothy Chalamet." (20:18)

• Albert Breer on NFL Concerns:
  "It's the dichotomy of the league. The rank and file in the NFL is making less than a million dollars a year and like is probably going to be out of the league within a couple of years." (125:14)

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5. Conclusion

Bill Simmons wraps up the episode by emphasizing the anticipation for Game 6 of the Knicks-Pacers series and briefly touches upon upcoming content and guest appearances. The episode offers a comprehensive blend of NBA playoff analysis and insightful NFL offseason discussions, providing listeners with in-depth perspectives from seasoned sports analysts.

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Notable Advertisements Skipped:
The podcast includes several advertisements for brands like FanDuel, Uber Eats, Wayfair, US Bank, and Michelob Ultra. These segments were omitted from the summary as per the user's request to focus solely on content.

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Time Stamps Reference:
All timestamps correspond to the moments in the provided transcript where the quotes and discussions occur. For example, a quote labeled 03:03 refers to 3 minutes and 3 seconds into the transcript.

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This summary serves as an overview for those who haven't listened to the episode, capturing the essence of the discussions and key insights shared by Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney, Joe House, and Albert Breer.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

It's the Bill Simmons Podcast. We are part of the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find the Rewatchables, a great podcast. We did Heaven Can Wait. We wrapped up big ass 70s month on Monday. You can find that podcast on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can also find it as a video podcast on Spotify. We already have next week's movie that we're doing. We we need a Kyle Brandon hadn't been on in two months and we needed to do an action movie and naturally it led us to the Steven Seagal movie that we haven't done yet that we have to do out for justice. The most important Steven Seagal movie in the catalog that will be coming Monday. There will be some laughs so you have the whole weekend to watch it. Fanduel we did Taylor Fade this week and it actually hit Jalen Brunson over 30 and a half. So you can check out they have same game parlay stuff for this weekend that you can check out on FanDuel Sportsbook. So coming up, I went live after game five Pacers Knicks with Rob Mahoney and Joe House and then brought in Albert Breer to talk about all the NFL stuff that's happened over the last month since the draft. Things you might have missed if your head was buried in the NBA playoffs. So that's all next. We'll take a break. We'll bring in Pearl Jam and then Joe House and Rob Mahoney. All next. You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends America's number one sportsbook. And they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. Even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your own bet slip. Then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app and if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available in Listen to the end episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus on President Select States Gamprom. Call 1-800-GAMBLER visit rg-help.com all right, starting the BS podcast here with Rob Honey and Joe House. Are we sober House? Are we buzzed? Where are we?

[Joe House]

Late night House, Late night House See.

[Bill Simmons]

What the cards give us Groggy like a little letting it loose House Unlike Andrew Nemhard Today we're doing this live on YouTube. I thought this was going to be an awesome game today. And New York had other ideas. A couple of the Pacers had other ideas. Did New York figure anything out today, Mahoney, or did Indiana just suck?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they figured out how to play defense like they had something to lose. You know, I think there. There's games where the Knicks defensive problems are personnel based are schematic. That's been the case in the series to some extent. In this game. I didn't think they changed a ton. They changed some. Mostly they just played with actual intensity, especially on the perimeter, to the point that it did feel like the Pacers kind of forgot for a while that they were allowed to move into the direction of the basket. Like it was all side to side. It was all handoffs up top. Once they, you know, Ben Matheran came in and decided to cut and they decided to drive a little more, the game changed a bit. But I thought the Knicks perimeter defense pressured them out of a lot of their stuff, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

[Bill Simmons]

What'd you think? Has.

[Joe House]

The Knicks did the thing that's most important in basketball, which is make the shots? They started off by the making of the shots in the first quarter, and that had the effect of keeping the Pacers from running. So we had two quarters from the Pacers where they scored less than 25 points. They scored 45 points in the whole first half. 23 points first quarter, 22 points second quarter. Because the Knicks did the making of the baskets.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill Simmons and Indiana stunk.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a good game for them.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty tough when Ben Matheran saves you from having like a 75 point game, which is where we're headed. And. And the stats reflect how bad it was, but it was even worse watching it. N. Smith was 1 for 8. He only played 15 minutes, by the way.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, they seemed like they were limiting him with. With that angle, probably. And that, I mean, Jalen Brunson feasts every minute that niece Smith isn't on the floor.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And once they kind of realized maybe the game was a little behind them, they started a little more careful. Nemhard was three for eight. It felt worse. Three turnovers, Turner. Yeah, 24 minutes, five points, four turnovers, and a couple of like, really just awkward offensive moments. 25ft from the basket where he's like trying to dribble. Against Mitchell Robinson, there's one time he just kind of fell out of bounds. It was like, I thought the biggest thing the Knicks did today, other than pressure Halbert and just make it more difficult for him on defense, was they felt like they were attacking Miles Turner. Rob. Yeah, like, oh, you're going to have the bomb coming at you completely.

[Rob Mahoney]

And he's been beating up on their smaller defenders all series against mismatches and they were swiping really well to kind of dislodge him. They were fighting for position much more effectively. You mentioned like on the perimeter, there's times, there's times where Miles Turner looks like a great athlete and then there's times where it looks like one of his legs is like a dramatically different length than the other and he can't quite move in any kind of like fluid manner. They brought that side out of him to the point that like Mitchell Robinson at some points was pressuring Miles Turner up to half court like they just wouldn't let him move at all, much less get into that little handoff game.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's weird, the Miles Turner free agency tape. It's going to have to be a carefully edited 20 minute highlight tape house. But I think the 20 minute highlight tape will be excellent.

[Joe House]

It can't have anything to do with Carl Anthony Towns. I mean, I think Cat has, has found the opposing center that he's most comfortable with in the entire NBA. And it's a version of Cat, you know, that man going to the rim with, with ferocity, relentless ferocity and his, you know, making himself into a true New York nick. You could see the crowd get super fired up every time he went to the, to the rack and bang Turner out of the way and you know, got his. And really he and Brunson set the tone in the first quarter with that intensity that they brought and they controlled the flow of the game in the first quarter. And it was weird that the Pacers didn't really have any kind of retaliation. I mean the closest we got was that 10 points with four minutes left in the third quarter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, and then they kind of got.

[Joe House]

There again in the fourth quarter, but really they just never got there. Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, but to that point with Cat, it was really telling that this series for him has become not really a post up series, not really a three point shooting series. It is drive past Miles Turner, drive past Pascal Siakam. Pacers have nobody who can stay in front of him so long as Kat can stay out of foul trouble. And granted, you know, he had about three or four dumb fouls in this game. I think he easily could have been called for five or six, you know, A shove here or there that just didn't get whistled. And maybe this game is very, very, very different. But he definitely showed up. Brunson definitely showed up. Like those guys had to deliver. And the depth also did like honestly just might be the best Landry Shamut playoff run we've ever seen from him.

[Bill Simmons]

Has there been a Landry sham and playoff run?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the thing he tends to be. He tends to be the guy who comes into the playoffs and just immediately disappears like way too small. Gets boxed out of series. Too streaky a shooter to really make a difference. This guy was like freezing T.J. mcConnell in the lane. Like killed dribble on the baseline. Completely stalling out the the Pacers offense. I the pressure that Shaman and Dal and Dylan Wright have brought to the series I think has been like a really meaningful thing, which is crazy to say.

[Bill Simmons]

McConnell was another one who sucked tonight. The really everybody in the Pacers. You look through mather and has 23 points and they scored 94 as a team. That's pretty rough. The Towns piece of it. I still feel like anytime a team isn't just completely attacking him on defense, House especially once he gets to four fouls, I would just go at him every play. Cause I just feel like law of averages, he's just going to foul somebody. It was funny to hear Van Gundy on this three man team we had tonight and we've had all through the playoffs your favorite conferences. Just poor Kevin Harlan, his usage rate is all time low. He's basically like Mikhail Bridges in those games when he has six shots in 48 minutes. But it was funny to hear Van Gundy just openly saying like they shouldn't put Towns back in. He's just crazy enough to get a foul here because I thought the same thing. 0.6 seconds left. It's like just enough time for him to foul somebody on a pick. But for the most part I think this series has been a win for him, House.

[Joe House]

An enormous win. An all time win. I mean in the same way that we were observing Julius Randall, you know, kind of a rebranding for himself by the excellent performance he had for the Timberwolves in the west until recently. I know, but look for the most part like who saw that coming, right? And you had to do some, some research. You had to go back into your, you know, basketball reference Bill Simmons database to compare him to some 18 and 9.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, him and Elgin Baylor.

[Joe House]

Him and the great to do that. Yeah, he made you do that. Julius Randall made you do that.

[Bill Simmons]

But now he's going to make Charlotte give him a weird free agent offer and that's going to be the only one he gets.

[Joe House]

Undoubtedly true. But Towns also. This is like a version of Towns that I don't think anybody could say. We've seen this from Carl Anthony Towns in the playoffs. Like this is the Eastern Conference finals, for Christ's sakes. It's very impressive to me.

[Bill Simmons]

I like how hard he's playing. Yeah, that's a big thing for me is like whatever. The stats are going to come and go, his shots are going to come and go. But he really seems like he fully gives a shit, which I think is. And if I felt that way last year with him too, in the Western Finals too. So we've at least gotten over that hump with them.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mahoney, I think he's had great responses. Right. It's like he's been embarrassed a couple times in this series, especially defensively, like we were just talking about. Played off the floor in fourth quarters, taken out of the rotation for critical stretches, like Mitchell Robinson kind of taking his spot a couple times. And then you get a huge response in crunch time. Then you get this response to the Indiana win. I don't know that you can ask a lot more of Towns than this. He's on a bad knee right now and he's still driving all that much. He's still hold, like relatively holding up defensively again, give or take all the fouls. And credit to him too. Gets to kind of punch it through with that final possession before the Pacers took everybody out. It was like a Indiana couldn't pull down a defensive rebound. Josh Hart gets it, reroutes it to Towns. Pump, fake, drive, finish over Matheran. Shrug off everybody. We're going home. Like he deserves that kind of moment with the series he's had.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, and the Knicks were like dying to let the Pacers back in the game in the third quarter and the Pacers weren't. There was like a six minute stretch where it just felt like the ball was flying around off everybody. It's funny you mentioned the Towns playing with a bad knee. Not sure how bad the knee was because it felt like he was doing a lot of stuff out there.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true.

[Bill Simmons]

I had the hockey game on the smaller TV as I was watching the basketball and I was just thinking how funny it is. You're on the. You're at the playoff basketball game like Carl Towns cutting it out with a sore knee and then you go to the hockey game and guys like they have Just divots in the side of their heads. They're playing with his broken hands or broken orbital bones. It's just, it's just funny how different the sports are.

[Joe House]

House and classic tips. I mean, with, with his, with, with the knee, he had the most minutes of any nick on the floor. 36 minutes. And he got the most attempts, up 20 attempts. So, you know, taking his shot, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Thought it affected his shot a little bit was the one thing I noticed it. But the barreling to the basket thing, I kind of feel like then the knee piece didn't matter, but maybe so. I don't know. I've changed my opinion on that trade a hundred times since they made it, but now I think Knicks won the trade. That's where I've landed today after, after watching Julius Randle a couple times against okc. Big win for the Knicks. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana. That's a no. A banana? That's a Yes. A nice tan. Sorry, no. But a box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? Nope. A box of fine wines. Yeah, Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. C app for details.

[Joe House]

Can I ask you a question? I've already taken a shot at Tibbs, but I think he coached a great game. I honestly think that him getting four guys on the bench, double digit minutes at this stage of the playoffs, I mean, we keep exclaiming out loud. We're shocked by this shame at revelation, but really Delon Wright and Shamet and McBride. I think the move of heart to the bench. You still getting the 34 minutes out of him? Yeah, I think we gotta tip our hat to Tibbs here a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mahoney completely. I. Look, maybe he should have been here all along. Maybe they should have been playing this way. You know, they, they brought in Delon Wright and Lander Shamond a little later in the season, but once they did, maybe those guys should have been in the rotation. That's fine. We can, we can talk about that. I'm here to encourage positive growth. This is Tom Thibodeau and we're, we're meeting him where he is, which is in a moment of desperation, started turning to these guys and really Found something with it. Like I don't even think it's just a minutes thing in terms of keeping the starters minutes down. I think having those guys in for meaningful runs where the Knicks are winning on defense, where they're creating all this energy, where they have the momentum, to me that's taking a lot of pressure off of Og Anunoby, Mikhail Bridges, Josh Hart too. You really don't even dwell or notice on the fact that like those guys can't hit threes right now, aren't really hitting a lot of shots because the Knicks are winning with this defensive energy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a good point. Their bench, I guess Hart 2 for 2 for 8 from 3 and the Knicks, the Pacer seems super happy to give them as many as you want. It's a weird thing for me. I agree that Tibbs coaching a game tonight. I also think it was reprehensible that he didn't ever try to figure out how to use his bench during the season. I remember doing a podcast after that Nick Celtic game in Boston in like February where he's just playing the guys huge minutes in this game that ultimately they were either gonna be the three seed or the four seed. It's like what are you doing? And I think the Knicks fans in my life, they're just apoplectic that it took until this series losing game one to then now experiment with all these different lineups and lineups that really haven't played together all season. But in a way better late than never I guess because it's definitely helped them. Um, I don't know. I, we've, we've seen Shamet for a few seasons here. I, I, I refuse to believe he's like a late bloomer as a playoff asset. And yeah, there's been a bunch of teams that have given up on Shame.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just a record, but he's out there. And again like these lineups are lineups that I would never choose to put on the floor in a must win playoff game. Right. Like lineups that should not work, that should not make sense. But I think it speaks to the fact that like New York's needs right now are less for explosive offense and more for where are they getting that defensive intensity? Who are the guys who are really going to pressure, who are really going to play up? And Wright and Shaman have both done that. McBride always does that. And playing those three guys together shouldn't be a thing. But it's a thing and it's working in the series.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, and make Indiana turn the Ball over and make Halberton not as comfortable, which they managed to. Indiana had 20 turnovers tonight. The Knicks were rebound out, rebounding them by 10 for most of the game and that evened out a little bit. But I guess from the Knicks side they were 28% from three and they won handily. Good sign for them. From the Pacer side they had 20 turnovers and they felt still felt like they were going to make a run even with like five minutes left with no. But literally nobody playing well except Mather. I was like, ah, I still feel like they might get going here. It was a bad Halliburton game.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, a lot of smoke, including on this podcast and all of the ringer podcasts about the big leap he was taking and how great he was playing and it just felt like he was flustered from the get go with all the pressure. My guess is that he'll be fine in game six.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean this is one of those. I looked at the tape. I can't believe how bad I was. I'm going to do this, this, this and this. And it will be a different Halbert would be my guess.

[Joe House]

He was the making the big leap and then he took the big shit. And that happens sometimes.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joe House]

We saw sga, the MVP of the league, and what was it, Game three, you know, lay a big fat egg. It happens.

[Bill Simmons]

The good players, when you start talking about like top 20 guys, top 15 guys, top 10 guys, once we go higher up the list, what, what separates the top five, top seven guys. Like, you notice that one SGA game when he wasn't very good in game three, but for the most part, every single playoff game, he's been between 30 and 38 a game.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And consistently scoring and consistently getting his shot. And you just always know you can count on him. You know, when you go through all the best guys in the league, that's usually in place. Which is why even with somebody like Edwards, people are so disappointed that oh, what happened to him in second half of game four and why did he seem so comfortable? Because there's. He's being held to a certain standard. I feel like Halberton had at least was knocking on the door of that level. So for him to suck tonight is just like, that's not great. And now he's going to take it tomorrow on the shows. There's going to be a lot of. They need Tyrese Halliburton to step up. He's going to be the step up guy tomorrow.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who was that?

[Bill Simmons]

Who is The Step up guy heading in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who was the voice you just did?

[Bill Simmons]

That was my generic ESPN voice. It was all. Every single of the voices.

[Albert Breer]

All, everyone.

[Bill Simmons]

I want them to have a segment called Step up where they just. Each of them just screams at the TV that somebody needs to step up. And then at the end of the segment, they all just look at each other and they tell each other to step up.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then they go to our content. This could easily be a ringer. Hottest take style podcast. 10 minute segment. Anyone in the world, you know, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Any world leaders who needs to step up?

[Rob Mahoney]

Anybody like Democrats need to step up? Well, perpetually.

[Joe House]

Well, that.

[Bill Simmons]

They definitely actually do need to step up. But Pariberg pluses main screen needs to step up because I can't find Mission Impossible.

[Rob Mahoney]

Whoever's doing the UI on those things definitely needs to step up. It's a disgrace.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, anyway, I think Tyrese. But long story short, Tyrese Halberton might need to step up.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, there's a version of a Tyrese Haliburton game where he shoots seven times and is still awesome. He's done that before, plenty of times. This was not that. I think it was. It was distressing how little he was even looking at the rim. And the times where even he would turn the corner on the Knicks defense. And it's just like, it looks like he's waiting for the breakdown to make the easy pass for the layup that, frankly, has, like, been there for the last three games or so. Um, but if you're that guy, if you're a top 20 guy, you are the breakdown like that, that's your job, to create that and to capitalize on it. And the fact that he wasn't really looking to score for, I would say at least two, maybe two and a half quarters, that it just wasn't enough for where the Pacers were house.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think it's because Michael Imperioli was there? You think he was psyched out? It's one thing to play in front of Chalamet, Spike Lee, some of the stars, but when Christopher's in the house, I don't know. It's a different level.

[Joe House]

Anything is possible. You don't want Christopher going to the trunk, that's for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Paulie's dead, right? Paulie Walnuts is dead?

[Joe House]

I believe so that would have been.

[Bill Simmons]

The Knicks move, is to put courtside. Just all the Sopranos characters, the living ones, just all in a row. But some of the key ones are dead. But I think. I still think that would be a Little intimidating. Maybe get all the mafia movies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we pour one out for Miles Teller though, who was next to Timothee Chalamet. Couldn't even get the broadcast shout out. Like he was just the normal guy sitting to the side of Timothy Chalamet. That's Miles Teller.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough beat. He's in Top Gun Maverick for guys sakes. He's in whiplash. He's been in some big movies. He was just in a movie that led Apple tv. He should have at least gotten a chiron.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what I'm saying. He's at Chiron level at bare minimum.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with that. My son was admiring Chalamet's fit. He likes the chrome heart Knicks pants he thought was a great job. He thinks Chalamet's done a great job with the. With the. With the fits during the games. I'm not going to bring him in later for a fit fit thing. Brunson, 6 for 9 in the first quarter laid the smackdown I had in the Taylor Fade. My weekly prop. I did over 30 and a half because I thought Brunson was going to have a big game. I think he finished with 34. But one of the reasons I thought that was because I didn't think Towns was going to be good in this game. So whatever they got from Towns, I wasn't expecting. I'm not positive the Pacers were expecting either. But this Brunson thing, his eyes just light up when nemhards. You mentioned it before, Rob. It's like the Nemart Pacers and then the non Nemite. When he sees Halliburton, it's. He looks like House passing an Arby's.

[Joe House]

Hey, hey.

[Bill Simmons]

No, that's a compliment. House.

[Joe House]

I know. That was an excited.

[Albert Breer]

Hey.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a stomach growl.

[Joe House]

It was.

[Bill Simmons]

I met somebody else who loved Arby's and I always bring you up when somebody else likes Arby's because you're my number one person. Do you know each other?

[Joe House]

We should. No.

[Bill Simmons]

I just feel like it's almost like House is a part owner and Arby's, even though he owns nothing.

[Joe House]

But I've invested enough, believe me. Believe me.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank God for Arby's anyway. Jalen Brunson. Rob. Go. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know how to come back from Arby's. No, he. Look, there really is only one Pacer who can guard him in this series. He's currently kind of injured, clearly at least being held back to some degree. I thought it was a sign of, you know, it was Represented representative of Indy's desperation that Ben Matheran was not only, like, the only guy who could score, but the only guy they would even trust to guard Jalen Brunson during critical stretches of the second half. Like, they. They gave him that job too. Because then, like, Shepard can't do it. Nemhard cannot do it. Those guys have no impact, honestly, on Jalen Brunson. And they're good defenders who fight through screens and, like, can be very effective against any other kind of scorer. But for some reason, Jalen Brunson can just kind of bump them off. He can shoot right over the top of Nemhard. They don't bother him at all. And so if we are watching which injuries are real and which ones are exaggerated. Karl Anthony Towns, you know, clearly good enough to drive and still be a dominant player in this game. Aaron Neesmith has to be a fully operational member of the Pacers rotation if they're going to slow down Jalen Brunson at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the recipe for the Knicks to come back from three one. House, if you're doing the 2004 Red Sox, don't let us get one, don't let us get two. Whatever. Kevin Miller said, it's easier to do it when you have five and seven at home. You win five, you have to go on the road and take six. But when the Celtics tried to do this last round, no Jason Tatum, Zombie Porzingis, Sam Houser and a sprained ankle. And the Knicks played the best game they've had and were completely healthy. This. This Pacer situation. Neesmith not healthy. Turner Nemhard coming off terrible games. Pacers bench not doing that well. Halburn coming off a bad game. And weirdly, some pressure for a team up 3 2. What do you think the line is for the series now, House, don't look.

[Joe House]

Oh, this is a great question. Yeah, the Pacers are definitely still favored. Let me think about this. Plus, for the. For the Knicks, the Pacers are favored minus 2. 20.

[Bill Simmons]

Rob, I can't remember if you know how to do odds. I'll let you have a guess if you want.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm going to say they're more than that. I think it's probably more of like a minus 5 or 600.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, look at the big balls on bread. They're up to two. Minus 370 for the pace.

[Rob Mahoney]

There we go. Split the difference.

[Joe House]

Yeah, right in between the two of us.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the Knicks were -5 today, which I jumped out at me immediately. Cause I. I thought it was gonna be like a minus two. So Vegas, obviously, and FanDuel and everybody else probably liked some of the metrics that were going. Um, I do think they saved N. Smith a little bit. Yeah, this is one of those. You feel it out. Oh, I didn't realize Miles Turner was gonna be hot in this game. Ooh, I didn't realize Walker was gonna make three threes. But none of those things were happening. And Carlisle was like, all right, I'll save my guy for for Saturday night. Here's the, here's. Oh, I'll say this, we're going to take a break for the podcast. Keep going. On YouTube, FanDuel has been your buddy for the NBA playoffs and they still have the same offer for the weekends. It's a no sweat. Same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs, you know we're going to have that for the NBA Finals as well. Use your token on three plus leg same game parlay or same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. So Pacers Knicks game six. If you think the Pacers are going to bounce back and close it out against the Knicks this weekend, throw together a little same gamer. Maybe you could bet on a Tyrese Halbert and triple double or a double double or just him hitting two threes. Throw it with the Pacers, throw it with the over and you're off. There's no better place to bet all the playoff action than America's number one sportsbook. Visit fandom.com BS and again you get a no swag. Same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. Fando Official sports betting partner of the NBA. You must be 21 + in President in select states or 18 + in President in DC. Opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay required Refund issued as non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply including token expiration. See [e-mail], gamma problem. Call 100 GAMBLER visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer's almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered. I love chicken parmesan. A cabana, that's a no. But a banana, that's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box fan Happily, yes. A day of sunshine. No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Here's the best thing about tonight. We get a game on Saturday night.

[Joe House]

Now I'm so happy.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we weren't going to have basketball for a week.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What are we going to do?

[Joe House]

I'm so happy. I'm going to order Arby's. How about that? We'll have the meets. Me and Jalen Brunson will have the meets. The Jalen Brunson thing that I wanted to observe is that the, you know, it's very stupid observation that I made at the top of the show. But they created their force of will. They dictated their pace by the high percentage shots that Jaylen Brunson gets and takes. And the same thing is true of, of Towns. I want for the record to, to say out loud, I tailed the Brunson wager. The Brunson, of course, I mean I, my, my, my token. My. I'm gonna, you know, cash that in. But it was based on the idea that Towns might be compromised. He wasn't compromised, but it was based on that. And we also had as a narrative, Knicks aren't going to go out like this. This, not this, this Knicks team with this Knicks fandom, what they've done in these playoffs. They're not going out with a whimper. They're going to come home and show pride. JJ John to Strempsky made a great case for why the Knicks would show up and show out tonight. And they, they, they did that. And I do think, I mean, let me get your guys take on this. I've said this a couple times and I think it's, you know, reasonable argument. I think the Knicks have the best five in the east. And you know, that doesn't necessarily mean they're the best team in the east, but I think they have the best five in the East.

[Bill Simmons]

We read about this on the phone today because the plus minus stats for the 5 man units do not back this up. And yet I don't think you're wrong.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think this is why I think you're wrong. Which five are you talking about? Because I think, yeah, you know, like, is that The Mitchell Robinson 5 or the Josh Hart 5?

[Joe House]

It's definitely the Heart 5.

[Bill Simmons]

But you know, the, the stats say it's the Mitchell Robinson. That's the better one.

[Joe House]

I get it. I'm not, I, I Understand the point, but I just, you know, when they. They. They have six. They have six guys. They have five and a half guys. Because what you get out of Mitchell Robinson is half a game. You get 20 minutes or, you know, get two thirds out of a. Out of a minute, wise out of him. But I would stack this Knicks five up against every other five in the East. And I think that's an element of why we're sitting here at this point with a game on Saturday night.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you another element?

[Joe House]

Let's hear it.

[Bill Simmons]

This is going to make Rob feel awkward, but this is really House's love language.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm terrified of whatever you're about to say. I honestly have no idea.

[Joe House]

I hope it involves Frank from White Lotus.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, no, it's not. Frank is not involved. You know, if Indiana wins one more game, we're going to have an Indiana versus Oklahoma City finals. But if the Knicks win the series, we'll have the Knicks in the finals. And if you've noticed from ratings and interest, it's a little more interesting nationally when there's a New York team in the finals. I'd like to bring you back to the year 2002. Game 6, Portland Lakers. I'm sorry, Game 6, Sacramento Lakers in Sacramento.

[Joe House]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

If Sacramento wins, we're going to have a Sacramento, New Jersey finals. And David Stern was like, not on my watch. This is not happening. We are not letting this happen. And we did not get a Sacramento, New Jersey Finals. And I'm just. I just. I. I just. I'm being. Just be careful. Let's be careful out there for Game 6. If you're wagering, just be careful. Put two fouls on New Smith pretty quickly. I don't know. Conspiracy Bill. I'm not going to dress up like Conspiracy Bill, but it just. How should we. The 2002, game six, we've talked a lot about over the years. I'm just saying.

[Joe House]

And also, it's in the back of my head.

[Bill Simmons]

It's in the deep recesses of the back of my head.

[Joe House]

Well, guess when I remembered it. When. When Dallas won the effing lottery.

[Bill Simmons]

2.

[Joe House]

On my birthday. I remembered that. 2002, game six. Weird things happen. Miracles.

[Bill Simmons]

Weird things. Miracles.

[Joe House]

Miracles. NBA Miracles.

[Bill Simmons]

Miracles. Like Aaron New Smith having three fouls six minutes in the first quarter. Like some miracles can happen. You just never know. So we'll have this. This Indiana game Saturday night, which will be. I'm trying to think if there's been a bigger Indiana game since the 2000 finals. I'm going to say no. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the only thing that would even come close is when they had a chance to upset the LeBron Cavs. You know, like they were in some of those series and had some pressure packed games.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. They never had a chance to. If we win this game at home, we go to the finals. I don't think they've been in that situation. Cause I was thinking during The Pistons when they oh 3 or 04 range, they played the Pistons a couple times. But yeah, I think what was the game where Tayshawn Prince blocked Reggie Miller from behind?

[Rob Mahoney]

The chase down thing.

[Bill Simmons]

That was in Indiana, the chase down thing. But this is the biggest Indiana Pacers game I think since the 2000 finals game four, ironically, the Kobe becoming a special player game in OT after Shaq falls out. So we'll see. I guess my question, if you're Rob, if you're Rick Carlisle, how many Pacers do you trust right now? Because we always see the number starts dropping as the playoff series goes along. How many of these guys do you actually trust?

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought in this game you could see his patience being tried with Obi Toppin, especially in the first half.

[Bill Simmons]

Obi Toppin when he tried to dribble through the two guys, you know, that's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not going to get you on Rick Carlisle's best side, I would say. I thought TJ McConnell had some bad like momentum halting plays that. But you kind of have to play him. Like Tyrese Halliburton needs, needs a rest at some point and Nemhard hasn't been good enough to be your backup point guard on any kind of full time basis. Like is Thomas Bryant going to have to continue to play? How bad is that Tony Bradley hip? I cannot believe I'm talking about Tony Bradley in the Eastern Conference.

[Bill Simmons]

Who would have thought a Tony Bradley hip injury would be a Game 6 subplot.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you know what, the Thomas Bryant minutes are that bad that it becomes a subplot. And so yeah, I think the guys who are definitely going to be in there, like Shepard is going to be in there. He's earned the right to have some minutes. He plays conservatively enough. I think he's going to be in the mix. Matheran clearly over the last two games has been one of the Pacers best players. I'm, I'm a little worried about Nemhardt at this point though because like in order to not play those bench guys you have to stretch the starters more and nith we'll see what state he's in physically Obviously Siakam and Halliburton and I think Turner on a good night, which these have mostly been good nights for him. You want to play those guys a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Andrew Nemhard didn't just struggle tonight. He struggled now for like a week. It's been.

[Bill Simmons]

It's been three awful games in a row.

[Rob Mahoney]

Three awful games in a row, shooting like 20ish, 23, 24% over those three.

[Bill Simmons]

Games, like, and doing stuff like drives to the layup to get a layup, but then kicking it out when, like there was one place specifically where Jalen Brunson was the only guy who could come over and try to stop him. And Brunson was coming and he kicked it back out to the corner. It's like, just lay it up. Just get two points. I think he's got some easiest playing basketball. That's what I was thinking. It felt a little yipsy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very concerning from that perspective.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I'm going to make you a once in a lifetime offer right now. Both of you. As you know, Zach Lowe and I cleaned up on N. Smith Island. It's been a revelation for us. Just unbelievable how it worked out. It's been. Sorry to everybody. We had to turn away in the condo projects. Jairus Walker Island. I did buy some property. Not tonight. During the season, every time he's played, I liked him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's gotten to the point where I don't really understand why he's not playing more, because I feel like he's at. I'm sure. Listen, I haven't watched nearly enough Pacers games as the actual Pacers fans. I'm sure, like, oh, my God, this fucking guy thinks Walker should play more. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I like when he's out there and I think he does good stuff. And I wonder if we see him more in game six. Instead of the Thomas Bryant minutes. Do you just go a little smaller? Like, what's. Robinson. He's going to hurt you on the offensive boards. But it's not like he's going to be posting up. Whoever it is. They don't post them up. And I wonder if they just try to go small because Walker's a dog. Like, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll fight anybody and fight for position. And I don't know, I. He seemed really comfortable shooting a couple of those threes tonight. I thought he was playing hard. Am I crazy, Rob?

[Albert Breer]

You're not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, here's the thing. If you are crazy, we're crazy together because I have been on the Could Jairus Walker be a playoff X factor for the Pacers?

[Bill Simmons]

It sounds like you've just bought a plot of land.

[Rob Mahoney]

I look, the land has been bought. My financial manager has said like I am ruining his professional reputation if I continue to buy land on Jairus Walker Island.

[Bill Simmons]

So wow, I didn't realize I saw some lights on down, down in the island. I didn't know who else that was.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a believer. You know, like these lights are pretty bright though, right? Like these now crucial must win games to get you to the NBA Finals. I thought he, he played pretty well in this one and, and again, like he's, he's going to make some spotty decisions here and there if he tries to do too much with the ball. But I thought in this game he was kind of in that Nuggets championship season Christian Brown zone of like you go to that spot and you stand there and if you dribble the ball, we will take you out of the game and you're going to try hard on defense and you're going to fly around. And he was like, he brought some of the athleticism that I thought, you know, if you're taking Obi Toppin off the floor cause you don't like some of the choices he's making, you bring in Jairus Walker and you're getting some of it back. Maybe not Obi toppin level athleticism, but some real pop and some length.

[Bill Simmons]

House, you calling your broker or are you too overextended with the three Wizards rookies when you bought all the stock? I, I mean the Bub Carrington Island.

[Joe House]

I have Bub Carrington. I have, I have AJ Green, I mean, you know, Johnson. AJ Johnson.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, AJ Johnson. You gotta remember what his name is if you're gonna have stock on the island.

[Rob Mahoney]

What about Johnny Bryant? Are you, are you leveraged on him?

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, nothing. And he never bought any, any property on Johnny Davis Island?

[Joe House]

No, no, I, I, he called in.

[Bill Simmons]

Fake fire alarms for Johnny Davis island trying to get the island shut down.

[Joe House]

I, I, yeah, I, I, I can't say out loud when I, what I really prayed for, but please don't. Yeah. Even though it's late night House, are.

[Bill Simmons]

You with us on Walker or.

[Joe House]

No, I like it. Look, I would be interested in getting some of the, what's it called, Second Spectrum. I want to see some of the data about him on Towns. I'd like to see the idea of him on Towns because Towns is too comfortable. Why Are you. Why are we.

[Bill Simmons]

The basket. Yeah, like, that's what I'm thinking. A smaller guy should just get in and try to make Towns basically bowl them over. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe House]

Just. I mean, he's got the athleticism. I feel the same way about Topping. I. Why isn't Topping trying to defend Towns now? Maybe that's true. Maybe there are some matchups there that I'm. I'm not, like, catching as they're occurring in real time. And you certainly don't want Obi Toppin feeling like he can take 10 effing field goal attempts in. In field goal attempts in. In 18 minutes. That's not permissible. You don't get 10, Obi. You don't get 10. You don't get more than. Than. You know, Tyrese Haliburton. Okay, please.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, part of that's Tyrese's fault.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I speak for the second Spectrum stats real quick about Jerus Walker on Towns? He's not ready for all that. That's too much.

[Joe House]

Okay, who's left?

[Rob Mahoney]

That's. That's kind of it. Like, that's the rotation. I mean, well. Oh, yeah, I think Siakam's gonna continue. He's. He's gotten some chances. He honestly has not done any better than Turner has.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought this is the problem with the Pacers in Game six is there's some. A couple foul trouble guys that they don't really have plan Bs for. Siakam is one of them. Nismith, I think, is another one. And then Halbert, obviously. But I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I think we know the way that the Pacers guard Towns in this series, and it's. You make him a defensive liability or you foul him off the floor. Like, those are really the two options for them, and they've. They've been pretty effective both throughout most of this series. It's just when he does manage to stay on the floor, he can get by Turner so easily that it creates problems everywhere.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we go big picture. Can we go big picture on the Knicks for a second? Cause I feel like I've watched six months of Knicks playoff games at this point, pretty intently. Don't ask why, but I. I really enjoyed that pit, that Piston series.

[Joe House]

What do you mean? Don't ask why. It's good basketball. It's fun. It's interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Are the Knicks. We always talk about good hangs. Like, we even called the Amy Poehler podcast good hang. Are the Knicks a good hang? It's just for casual basketball fans who don't Care, you know, obviously, other than the betting pieces. But is it fun to watch this next team? Cause I can't. I haven't really totally decided yet. I. I find myself more aggravated by them than enjoying them. With Towns, like all the facial expressions and him calling Brunson, um, the, the cuts to Tibbs. He has the same look on his face all the time. It just looks like he's trying to pass a kidney stone. Brunson's never smiling. All that. The bridges, the fact that nobody seems to realize that every time he goes to a spot and jumps backwards and everybody forgets that that's his jump shot. Every time.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Mitchell Robinson just bowling guys over from behind, getting offensive rebounds. I just find myself frustrated watching them. And I have no skin in the game. It's. I think I've seen too many Knicks games, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they're pretty fun. I honestly, I think this is. This is a cat litmus test to me. Because you're right. Some of the personalities on the court are not the most emotive. Like OG Anunoby, you're not going to get a lot out of during the game.

[Bill Simmons]

No blank slate.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I'm. I enjoy the CAT experience. The ups and the downs, the dramatic turns. Like I'm. I am here to see, like every night. Can this guy stay on the floor? Can this guy get out of his own way? Can he be the all NBA caliber player he proved to be this season that we all know he's capable of being? Can he be that when you need it? And those have been some of the most satisfying moments of this Knicks run are the moments where Cat steps up.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's right, Hess.

[Joe House]

I agree. How about this? I love these Knicks. I'm into them.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm glad we're talking about this great time. I think. Because I think I'm bitter about the Celtics thing. And I think that's tainted.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess I'll just put all cards on the table. I might still be mad. Go ahead, House.

[Joe House]

Especially when they're at msg, I think that they have engendered this love and, you know, being reminded of what a great venue. Like historic, precedential, precedent, important basketball has happened at msg. And presidential, Presidential, Presidential, all of them.

[Bill Simmons]

All the P's, probably a president there.

[Joe House]

All the P's happen at msg. But it's been a really fun ride watching this team who I, I think, you know, the off season stuff was a goddamn miracle. How did they get Mikhail Bridges and Carl Anthony Towns?

[Bill Simmons]

How did they traded every Asset they had. That's how they got them.

[Joe House]

It was effing worth it. They're in the Eastern Conference finals in year one, and I think it's like a three year run. And they. Can I tell? Yeah, I mean, the combination of where they are.

[Bill Simmons]

See, I feel like everything's on the table. You could tell me this is Tibbs, his last game at coach on Saturday. You could tell me they're going to have Giannis next year. I'm ready for anything with that.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the east, though, you know, like there's that thing where you write your name on the SAT and you get 200 points. You play in the Eastern Conference, like, that's 1441. Like, I think you're going to be all right right there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a good point. I will say one thing.

[Joe House]

Efficiency all season was so good.

[Bill Simmons]

House, I agree with you on msg and it's fun to have the celebrities there. I will say this. I have noticed this over and over again. The people courtside, around the area, a lot of people on the phones. And I think the Knicks fans have to really push. I'm not saying it's not like the Chalamet guys, but there'll be somebody shooting free throws and you'll see behind and it'll be in the front row and it'll be six people just texting. And it's like you're at game five of the fucking Eastern Conference finals and you guys have a reputation as being some of the best basketball fans in the earth and you're sitting on the wood. Get off your fucking phone. Well, plus, get off your phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

It could be Mitchell Robinson shooting, in which case it's a half. You gotta be careful.

[Bill Simmons]

I get hit by a field goal. All right, so who wins game six? It's in 48 hours.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pacers.

[Joe House]

Pacers.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think I'd bet it either way. I think.

[Joe House]

Should we wait to see who the refs are?

[Bill Simmons]

It's something I'm definitely going to do on Saturday.

[Joe House]

Did we get a Tony Brothers?

[Bill Simmons]

Tony Brothers. What's wrong with Tony Calls a solid game. Now I need to think about it some more.

[Joe House]

The extender must say this.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it'd be really tough to beat this Pacers team three days, three games in a row with how. How? One of those games they're going to have a really good offensive game. One of those games, Carlisle is going to figure out something. But I think I'd probably lean Pacers because I. I just think their style, especially at home I believe in it, but it does. The knee spent 15 minutes today does scare me a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

It should. I think that combined with Nemhardt being this bad like that's that is a little bit spooky.

[Bill Simmons]

But Turner will be better at home. Turner will be better how will be better at home? Today was dying for the random T.J. mcConnell. I'm just going to take over a quarter for six minutes. But he did the opposite. But he has that in him, which they need. Trying to think from a Knicks standpoint, probably hitting a bunch of threes. Brunson has to be around 30. They need something major from Towns and they need the bench guys to be decent. Would be the recipe this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. Every basketball team that's still alive in the playoffs has one thing in common. Their key trades and signings throughout the season paid off, giving each team the talent needed to make a run at the championship. With a small business, your success directly depends on the new talent you add to your team. And a great place to find that talent is LinkedIn. They know hiring is a big deal for small businesses, not only because small businesses are wearing so many hats, but also because every hire is crucial for a growing company. That's why LinkedIn pairs you with the best candidates, using data you won't find anywhere else. From unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying in a given week. 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. That's a big pool to miss out on. So find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons that's LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. What do I look forward to every NBA playoff season? Well, I'm always hoping the Celtics do well. I'm always hoping we have great storylines, great games, great matchups, great games. Sevens. I just hope for good basketball. But the NBA playoffs are even better with Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. Plus, they're getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside tickets and more. Enter now. Michelobulture.com Courtside Michelob Ultra Superior Access Courtside 2024-25 Sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 or older. Ends on July 1, 2025. Multiple entry periods. Visit micklobeltra.com SuperiorAccess Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. You guys both talked about OKC on podcast this week. But why do you think people are so begrudgingly careful about calling them a great team?

[Rob Mahoney]

Because they're young? I think mostly I think people are calling.

[Bill Simmons]

They just don't fit the profile.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, well, I mean they're profile wise, they're like, like closer to like the Iverson Sixers or something. It's like if. But if you supercharge their defense and also supercharged Allen Iverson and that's not a formula that we're used like wrapping our heads around, you know, a defense first team that is. This defense forward in the modern NBA is, is a bit of an anomaly on this stage.

[Bill Simmons]

I told House this on the phone today. They've played nine playoff games at home. They won eight of them by 51, 19, 43, 7, 32, 36, 15 and 30. And they lost one game to Denver in game one. They're up nine with three minutes left and lost the game by two. This is about as dominant of a home team as we've seen through three rounds. And I think that crowd, I think their young guys are more comfortable at home to begin with. It's usually when they go up 8 to 10 and their defense takes it over. I just think, like I was saying, a House. I really regret not just banging the blowout odds for every game because we should have seen it. Because especially the history of the playoffs. Young teams like this built around a talented guy, they usually kind of kick everybody's ass like this.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I wonder like even watching the game tonight, I, I'm just hard pressed to think either of those teams have much of a chance. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean look at the way the Pacers responded to Knicks level defensive pressure and. And think about the decisions that sometimes Cat will make on the move or OG or Mikhail Bridges will make on the move as they try to navigate through the lane and they're trying to make those connecting passes you have to make. I. I don't see it. I think the Thunder should and will be a heavy favorite against either of these teams. They deserve that. They are a great team. They're. They're an all time team. Kind of like hiding in plain sight.

[Joe House]

All. All that is 100% true. And I will be banging hard every one of their home games and playing alt spreads and every thing. But on the perception question, I think, you know, it's right to think about this this whole season in context, the league kind of has a role in this. Like the league isn't out there promoting sga. It wasn't back in October.

[Bill Simmons]

We were looking this all year. We've all done it on our. I remember doing a whole monologue about this, about, you know, LeBron and Curry, we love those guys. But Durant, it's time to start pushing the new dudes. And they're just over and over again hinging on LeBron and Curry on these Saturday night ABC games. It's not like they didn't know OKC was going to be good. House they're over under was like 61 wins.

[Joe House]

The thing that I shared with you when we were talking earlier, I'm interested in Rob's opinion. SGA didn't help himself in the Olympics. Like remember the Olympics did sort of give everybody a big burst of basketball in August. And it was high level basketball. The competition was incredible. And it took an amazing like end of legacy kind of game by Steph, another career defining legacy. Defining game by Stephen to put them to night night. And SGA in Canada was forecasted to make a nice little run. And they made a run again right to the toilet because they stunk. They stunk bad. They were not good. Jamal Murray was horrendous. SGA and Lou Dort, I mean they were loaded. That Canadian team was good and they better.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like I've been waiting, I've been waiting, yeah my entire adult life for Canada basketball to be a real minted. And it's just, it never pans out. No matter who's on the roster, they're always quite talented. It's an incredible pipeline of basketball ability and skill and development. And for whatever reason, they just do not play well in international play.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why they're not good enough to be our 51st state. Rob.

[Albert Breer]

Wow.

[Joe House]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

This is why we keep projecting their resume.

[Joe House]

Step up Canada. Step up.

[Bill Simmons]

So SGA in 16 playoff games this year, 29.8 points a game. And I think that even would have been better, but that a lot of these games have been blowouts. He's playing almost three minutes a game, more than three minutes a game, less than he did last year in the playoffs. He's now at his last 26 playoff games. He's at 30 a game, which look, the stats are a little skewed. It's a little like late 90s baseball steroids just because the pace is different, points are up. But if you're a guard scoring 30 a game for a long Time, sample size, I think that might even go up in the finals. And in some of these games, just getting any shots he wants in the biggest moments, it's really, really impressive. It's what he did those first three rounds was as impressive as, I don't know, anything I've seen from a 2 guard in the last 25 years. It's up there with any of Kobe's playoff runs. It's. I, I don't want to put it with the Wade 06 because what Wade did in the Finals, especially like that was just him by himself, just willing them, but it's way up there and I, I don't think he's a finished product yet. Do you, Rob? It feels like we still, we're like 90% there.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's a different player than he was six weeks ago. Like he, his development through these playoffs has been a huge story and part of the reason they're here, his ability to adapt to the variety of defenses that have been thrown at him. Like, you would think if you're someone like Shai, you've seen everything, but you kind of haven't until you get into these seven game dogfights over and over against dramatically different teams. I think he's aced kind of all those tests. Like he's had moments where this game in crunch time. Maybe I don't love the shot selection this game, maybe the percentages aren't there, but on balance you just see the line going up and up and up. And from the Thunder perspective, what more could you ask for than that?

[Bill Simmons]

There's been some revisionist history. House and I even might have been guilty on it on this pot a couple times recently. No, just I think we all liked the trade when it happened and now it seems like the worst trade of all time. The Paul George.

[Joe House]

No, I didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

And the SJ in the picks. But when it happened, we were all like, that's amazing. Nobody, the Clippers were dead in the water. This was the way that they could get Kawhi Leonard, who had just won the Finals MVP for Toronto. And basically they're trading all this stuff for Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. And they didn't want the Lakers to get him. And Ballmer was an owner for five years and he had to do this to keep the Lakers from getting Kawhi Leonard. And also like this made them the favorites to win the title in 2020. So they gave up a lot. But I to me that it's not as bad as the Durant trade, which I think when they, when the Suns did that one, we were like, man, that's a lot. I get why they did it, but holy shit, you have no outs now after this trade with the Clippers, it was like they had one one way. Now you could argue, should they have played poker with Kawhi and just been like, look, we're about, just sign with us. We have all these assets. We're going to be able to keep building around this and just kind of talk them into it. Because it didn't seem like I want to play with the Lakers. But I don't know. That trade, it's easy to say five years after the fact, that's a complete catastrophe, because it is. But I think the reasoning behind it was, was solid. What do you think, House?

[Joe House]

I thought it was a worthwhile gamble at the time under the circumstances and in the context and you just kind of laid it out. But the, you know, the, the real animus there, driving animus to driving force, was Ballmer trying to do something with that franchise.

[Bill Simmons]

Like invigorate. Not even reinvigorate them. Invigorate them.

[Joe House]

Invigorate, exactly right. And that's fair. Like he, he's the owner, he's the guy with the money and they trying to do a thing. They had to pay a price for it. It just turned out that the price exceeded what they imagined and that that happened.

[Bill Simmons]

SJ was. Turned out to be a, oh, I think a way better player than anyone expected, even though we all like. Sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And they also nailed the picks, Rob, which like you look at all the picks New Orleans got or New Orleans got from the Lakers, and it's. Sometimes you nail the picks, sometimes you don't. Like they took Jalen Williams at the 12th pick.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. And he's the second best player in the team. They tanked for three, four months in to get the Chet Holmgren thing, but they also had to get the ping pong balls in the top three, which is. House can attest, doesn't always work. Even after you spend the whole year trying to lose. Well, it's true, you know, so there was some luck with them. They made an awesome trade and the Jalen Williams pick was great. And they were lucky to get in the lottery. They smartly took Chad. Everything they did was super smart. But that trade, you know, I, I don't think you can look at it be like, oh my God, that's the worst trade ever. I would, I would go the other way. I would say that's like one of the Best trades ever. Turning Paul George into all the stuff they got, all they gave up was Paul George.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All the stuff they got back. It. It shouldn't be discussed as worst. It should be discussed as best.

[Rob Mahoney]

An incredibly worthwhile gamble for the Thunder, given their circumstances, to recoup. All that for Paul George and they.

[Bill Simmons]

Knew they had to get rid of Russ, too.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And for the Clippers, I still completely get it. You put yourself back in those circumstances, it still makes sense to me. Like, the premise still makes sense. I think, honestly, like, that trade has been amazing and we've spent, I would say, the last maybe 18 months or so debating on and off, do the Thunder need to make some kind of move? Like, do. Should they cash in some of these picks that they've stockpiled for another player? Is Jalen Williams going to be a good enough second star? They made the big trade to get Shay and they did not make the big mistake of trading away and disrupting what, as we're saying, is clearly a great team, is clearly a championship worthy team. Like, they invested in that project and they're fucking there like they are right there on the precipice of doing everything they set out to do.

[Joe House]

It's amazing. It's an amazing what if? Because if they lost to Denver, like, I do think they'd be cashing in some chips maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, yeah, the sliding doors for them is what if Aaron Gordon doesn't hurt his groin? I still think they probably win by 20, but I think that Denver team with healthy Aaron Gordon was Michael Myers, and they just were not. You were. You know, I think once Denver fell behind 15 in that game, they kind of knew. And that's been. I think you and I were talking about this today, House. The thing that's special about this OKC team, beyond the obvious stuff, is they really do break teams during a series. And they brought in all three series. The team they're playing against hit a point and you could really feel it in that Minnesota series was 26 to 9. And it's like, this game's over. You're not coming back against okc. Their defense is too good. It's. This is a wrap. You know where it's going. And you could kind of feel the energy from Minnesota go sideways. And, you know, they had limitations. And the. The Conley thing was, I think as the series went on, even. Even more disastrous than we could have predicted. But the type of team that should be able to hang with them, unless you have somebody like Jokic, is a team that plays like Indiana. I just don't know if they have the horses. But the up and down pace, like, let's get into track meet that 128 to 126 Minnesota, game four. That to me is the motto of how the Pacers can hang with them. But there's a reason The OKC is minus 7:50 on FanDuel to win the title right now. Minus 750 house. That's like the biggest since you're talking like warriors. I don't know. 2018.

[Joe House]

I am nothing if not a creature of recency bias right in the kisser. But the Pacers have no chance. That's a 4:1 series. Because the thing that OKC did to Minnesota, which was strangle them like a.

[Bill Simmons]

Python, that'd be a dead to Indiana.

[Joe House]

When they go all the way up to the free throw line and say, oh, you want to bring the ball up? Go ahead, look. And they. And they. They start like. Like, you know, mini trapping. Forget it. No chance.

[Bill Simmons]

They. What's interesting is Indiana can do the flip side to okc. It's not like OKC has like a real point guard and you could try to do the same thing. But I just think OKC's defense is better. Rob, who do you think has a better chance from? Let's just. I'll give you either side. Knicks. Okay, Knicks or Indiana going to the next round?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think there's no question Indiana has a better chance. The only way to beat the Thunder is to be unbelievably precise with your passing. And you know, you have. Tyrese Halliburton has these amazing 15 assists, 0 turnover games. Overall, it's an incredibly low turnover offense. I suspect that would change if they meet in the NBA Finals. I think the pressure ratcheting up is going to be a totally different thing. And it speaks to what you mentioned, Bill, about the way that the Thunder break teams, the way that they kind of break your spirit. I think a lot of it is game one. You go in, you think you know what they are. You see it, it's tough. You have to go, okay, we're going to go back, we're going to look at the film. We're going to figure out where the holes are. You look at the film and it's like there kind of are no holes or they're vanishingly small. And whatever however you think playing against the Thunder is going to be, they are so much faster and more frenetic than you anticipate. And so by the time you get to game three, it's like I just don't think there's anything here. Like, I don't know what the mechanism is. Again, short of, as you said, having Nikola Jokic on your team, a guy who can see over the top of that entire defense and try to make 99th percentile passes out of it. Short of that, I, I honestly don't know what you do. That's not to say that they're unbeatable. I just don't know what the formula is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they cause turnovers that you see in like an 8th grade basketball game of just like that's long lob passes that just get picked off for a dunk. I'll give you one case for Indiana that I thought was interesting. I looked this up. There's been 10 teams ever that have won 10 playoff games and averaged at least 28 assists a game. Here are the teams. The 85 Lakers won the title. 33.7 assists a game by the way. 82 Lakers won the title. 84 Lakers went to a game seven in the finals. 80 Lakers won the title. 86 Celtics won the title. Number six all time Indiana 86 Houston made the finals. 19 warriors should have won the title. Made the finals. 87 Lakers won the title and the 17 warriors won the title. Those are 10 teams that did that. And that made me think like maybe this Indiana team's a little more rare offensively than we're giving a credit for. And then they stink tonight. And that stat, that's why I waited 53 minutes to redo that list. So all ready to lead with that if they won tonight.

[Joe House]

Here's the thing. We saw a valiant effort out of Minnesota, you know, last night that you, you can try and score with Oklahoma City, that your best bet is to like score with them because they go, they go gaps, you know, where, where they're just a little too happy with taking shots that are just like comfortable and they'll go a couple minutes without making a bucket, I mean shake and always, always, always get to the lane, get inside the lane and, and you know, get a floater off or get to the, to the rim if he wants to.

[Bill Simmons]

But we're, we're old, we've seen a lot of great scorers. Shay's way getting way up there for.

[Joe House]

Me, way up there.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't believe how easily he gets whatever shot he wants, no matter how much the defense is throwing stuff at him. Like, you know, Kobe was more in that Jordan side of. And I think Wade was a little, Wade would just either go to the basket or he would shoot. He didn't have the three point shot. He was so athletic. He could always figure out a way to kind of bounce off people and get in. Shay, the way he navigates, it's honestly like watching a hockey player, the way he kind of skates around until he gets what he wants and then he gets the shot he wants.

[Joe House]

Well, if you're going to do that, I'm going to say Gretzky like he moves that way. He moves angles like he has shoulder tilt to getting off his stuff where.

[Bill Simmons]

He'S avoiding contact and then the footwork to finish. And he always finishes, he always finishes. Whatever the great move was, which most guys this is Jason Tatum was his biggest issue. He'd have these great moves and he would wouldn't finish half the time. Shea finishes every time.

[Joe House]

He finishes every time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Crazy good finisher. Like the way he the his length and the way he extends around the basket is so hard to counter. The mid range game is basically unstoppable. No matter what your size is. Like there's not a lot you can do and you know you can have the conversation about the way he's officiated, but he also plays through contact to shoot. You know, this isn't James Harden pulling up through your arms and throwing the ball literally straight up in the air. Like he is playing to complete plays. And he honestly will convert a lot of and ones or kind of would be or should be and ones in a lot of cases.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I don't feel like when I was complaining a couple times about how he was being called, I don't really blame him for some of the calls. It's just for whatever reason, refs gravitate towards certain styles and for him he has that way of when he drives, he could throw his left arm out and they usually think it's a foul, sometimes it isn't. But I don't think that's the reason. I mean to me it's the footwork and just his, the herky jerky stuff. The stop start, his stop start stuff is the best. I feel like it's even gone up a level in the playoffs. I just have not seen a lot of guys like him. I really think like this start to finish year for him, they have a chance to go 84 and 18 for a season which puts them in this whole highest possible level of dudes. And he's just 32 a game night after night. And it's not like, oh, he had that 75 point game that skewed his Average, it's every night it's 32, 38, 31, 35, 37, 29, 39. And it's just the steadiness of it, especially on a team where you kind of don't know who else is going to be steady offensively. Like, they haven't shot the ball well from three all playoffs, Rob. And it hasn't mattered.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I mean, they'll have select guys who will pop off here and there, but the defense is so good and Shay is so good, and I think in enough games, Jalen Williams has been so good that that triangulated together is enough to be an incredibly dominant, potentially historically dominant playoff team. Like, I. I think what you described about Shea being that rock solid as a score, like, he doesn't have these Tyrese Halliburton games. He doesn't even have the off Jalen Brunson games where he'll, you know, shoot 6 for 19 from the field or whatever. Like, it's just always going to be there. And the fact that you can bank on that every night as a team gives you immense freedom to play guys like Alex Caruso and stretch them as far as you can, like relative non scores. Play guys like Lou Dort even more than you would otherwise be able to get away with. Have the odd game from Chet where he, you know, can't quite hit from three and isn't a factor offensively in the way you would want. But who cares because Shea has 39. Like, I think you just have so much you can make up for when you have those two things as your two tent poles. Shea putting in 30 plus a defense like that, it's incredibly tough to beat.

[Bill Simmons]

We say this every time. A team, they have it obviously needing four more games, but we always say, like, you immediately start talking about how long could this go? Could this keep going? How many could they get? This feels like the safest bet to have like two in a row or three in a row. So let's start with the warriors, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

If I get too far ahead of.

[Bill Simmons]

The pit, but yeah, because I still feel like they're probably going to be better next year. Yeah, everybody comes back. The only thing I could see changing is if they traded Lou Dort because they had to move some money around, but it's gonna be the same team a year older, not, you know, all of their young stars aren't even close to their primes, except for Shea. So we'll see. I'm sure they're licking their chops, hoping this Indiana New York game goes Seven. And more and more people get or are playing semi injured. Do you have a TV show recommendation for House? Once basketball ends for five days, I'm here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm trying to figure it out. You know, everything's ending right now. I think we're about to check out Stick, the Owen Wilson golf comedy on Apple. I'm excited for that. I'm excited to see what's going on with Stick.

[Joe House]

That's right in my wheelhouse. There we go.

[Bill Simmons]

We got some stuff next month. The Bears coming back.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe House]

Can I say out loud that the last season of the Bear bored the shit out of me?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it was a transition season. It's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Definitely can say it out loud.

[Bill Simmons]

It's also not a show that was meant to be binged.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, it's a two week to week.

[Bill Simmons]

It should be two. House, I have a show for you.

[Joe House]

I'm listening.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the Mormon. The mom talk. Moms on Hulu, whatever that show is. The reality show.

[Joe House]

Oh, it's a reality show?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's these mom talk moms. It's not a real housewife show. It's like Mormon. The Mormon something.

[Joe House]

Let me ask a question that's delicate on live YouTube.

[Bill Simmons]

No, be careful.

[Joe House]

Has how much menopause is involved?

[Bill Simmons]

No, they're younger. They're all like young Mormons.

[Joe House]

That's a relief.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is this the Secret lives of Mormon Wives?

[Bill Simmons]

Is that what it is? House.

[Joe House]

Hey, but wait, are they on Mom Talk?

[Bill Simmons]

They're on Mom Talk. They're Mom Talk. No, not on. Not Montauk. They're called mom talkers.

[Joe House]

Mom Talk.

[Bill Simmons]

I was watching with my daughter. This is your favorite show, My daughter's Heart. So I'm watching bad television shows like this again. But there was a swinging scandal. House.

[Joe House]

Oh, I'm in. That's not a scandal if you're Mormon.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, well, it was a scandal.

[Joe House]

You're not allowed to say that.

[Bill Simmons]

No, well, that was the thing. It's. It's. It violated the religion. It also violated some friendships and there was some healing religion. The Mormon, like, they, you know, I'm gonna stop some stuff was. House, let me tell you, it's in your wheelhouse.

[Joe House]

Okay, good, good.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. I'm here for it. And then it's episode four. Be like, it would be cool if you guys all went on vacation and then played games where you guys got into fights with each other. And of course they do that. So anyway, for me and my daughter, it was really a win all the way around. That's my recommendation.

[Joe House]

Is that what it's called?

[Bill Simmons]

Secret Lives of Mormon something.

[Joe House]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there you go.

[Joe House]

I don't get the category.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if they're cranking out the secret live show in Rob's house. Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. That's what.

[Joe House]

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have died inside during this segment. But you know, we live on.

[Albert Breer]

We're going to be reborn tomorrow.

[Bill Simmons]

Just gets 40 minutes out of your life. We might not have basketball, basketball in two days.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's fair.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember trying to talk House into Laguna Beach 20 years ago. Mission accomplished. Well, because he had already. Was already watching it.

[Joe House]

Didn't really have to bend my arm.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All right. Rob, are we going to see you? When are we seeing you on group chat?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, the good news is now that we have a Saturday game, we're going to have a Saturday group chat.

[Bill Simmons]

So there you go.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tune in for us on Saturday night.

[Bill Simmons]

Go House. We'll talk gambling. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Summer's almost here. The days are getting longer and warmer. Which means it's time to update your outdoor space and make it feel more like yours. You know, outdoor furniture, I like comfortability. It's gotta be something that if it gets a little rainy, damp, anything. Maybe you want stuff that you don't have to cover all the time. Just in case it's drizzling for five seconds. You want just a nice, clean, simple. Let's all go hang out. It's gonna be getting dark by 8. 45 tonight. Let's go hang out. Let's listen to some music. I got the Bushra 8 piece sectional seating group with cushions. That's great, Wayfair. Perfect. Helps you out in a time crunch. The delivery free, fast hassle free. Something for every style, every home. No matter what your space or budget is. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals. And you gotta do it right now. Cause summer's coming with endless inspiration for every space and budget, including the outdoors. So don't wait until summer's in full swing. Shop a huge selection of outdoor furniture online. Go comfortable. Go simple this summer. Get outside with wayfair. Head to wayfair.com right now. W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. With the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature card, you earn an unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. That's right. You heard me. Every purchase. 2% cash back at restaurants, 2% cash. Back at the gym, groceries. Oh yeah, you earned 2% back on that, too. New tires, new outfits, New York City getaway. All earned 2% cash back. Noticing a trend. So whether you're splurging on concert tickets, fueling up for your commute, or shopping for that perfect birthday gift for the bestie, you'll be earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. Visit usbank.com smartlycard to learn more. The creditor initiator of this card is U.S. bank National Association. Pursue it to a license from Visa USA Inc. Some restrictions may apply. All right, we're recording this part of the podcast. It is late Thursday morning Pacific time. I needed a Massachusetts guy on. It'd been a while. I don't know. I've had had a few over the years, but we got Albert Breer from Sports Illustrated. Also, haven't talked football in a long time on this podcast. Haven't talked football with you on this podcast ever. And I sent you a text and I said, come up with a gimmick. I don't want to know what it is. Maybe it's a gimmick like you're buried in the NBA playoffs. Stuff's happened in the NFL that you're probably not paying attention to. I'm here to tell you what that is. What gimmick did you come up with?

[Albert Breer]

That was actually exactly it, Bill. Oh great.

[Bill Simmons]

I spoiled your gimmick.

[Albert Breer]

That, yeah, you might be buried in the NBA playoffs. And so we're going to get everybody caught up on what's happening in the NFL who hasn't been paying attention. And I got a sneaking suspicion a couple of these you probably, you probably paid some attention to. But I actually had trouble narrowing it down to five. But I think I have five.

[Bill Simmons]

You could, you could do an honorable mention at the end. If there's a couple honorable mention like.

[Albert Breer]

The my honorable mention, we can do that start like Jim Mercedes passing. I think, you know, we should give some, give some mention to that. And then Trey Hendrickson's contract situation. I didn't know if that was interesting enough, but that's still ongoing.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll save those for the end. Come, come at it with a bang first and then we'll save the honorable mention for late.

[Albert Breer]

The other thing is like over the last 48 hours, I did learn what pink cocaine is, so I got that too.

[Bill Simmons]

So this has been on a few of my Pats fan text threads. I also did not know what pink cocaine is, but I'm old Yes, the fond digs already in a. What is it, a yacht scandal? Is it an imbroglio? What is it?

[Albert Breer]

I mean, I don't know if it would. I mean it's not like it's up there with like the Love Boat, you know, in Minnesota 20 years ago. That, that I think still a gold standard. I'd probably put, I'd probably still put this behind like the SS Beckham in 2016. Right, right. Right before the playoffs. But maybe it might be number three in my time covered in the NFL as far as boat scandals go.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Vrabel. Pat's coach, Mike Vrabel, the new most important coach of my life did. He was just basically like, we're not talking about this and yada yada did a little bit and we'll see if the story dies. All right, so let's go top five biggest things, do first and then we'll do honorable mention. So the biggest thing that has happened during the NBA playoffs, NFL related, that you think I should care about because I'm paying attention, is what?

[Albert Breer]

The Steelers didn't sign a quarterback.

[Bill Simmons]

What are they doing?

[Albert Breer]

They are pretty confident that their quarterback is going to be Aaron Rodgers. And I do think that there's like, I think there's actually some decent reason here for people who want to listen to it. And I think this goes back to how you manage everything in the spring and trying to get their work done. And I think the logic for both sides here was if he signs April 1st and look, he's got personal stuff he's dealing with, he's traveling and if he signs April 1st and says, okay guys, I'm going to go away for the next two months and when I'm back, I'm back. But like I gotta, I got some personal stuff I gotta attend to. I gotta, I'm, I've got travel planned. What you're inviting then is then whenever you, you start the off season program, you get into OTAs, anytime the media is there, it's gonna be where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? And so I think both sides wanted to avoid that. And so that's part of it. And then I think the other end of it. And this is like to me almost the more interesting thing. I think Aaron was really affected by the way his, his trip to Egypt was covered last year. And so going through all of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we go backwards? How is it covered? I don't even remember.

[Albert Breer]

Well, if you remember. So he skipped the mini camp. The jets had their minicamp at the end of June or in the middle of June last year at the end of their off season program. And Aaron had been like pretty much a full participant in everything that they'd done up until then. And then he skipped the minicamp. And it was something that they had kind of predetermined he was going to do. But, you know, Saleh said to him, okay, like, that's fine, but I still have to fine you and I still have to hold you responsible. And I still have to say, like, this isn't an excused absence because we have to have a standard for everybody. And it became like a two or three week story. And when they hit bumps in the summer and early in the fall, it continued to be a story. And I like the sense I get is that Aaron was frustrated by that and he didn't want to go through that again. So I think part of the logic here for the Steelers, for Aaron is just whenever you're in, you're all in, but not until then. And so I think the logic here between the Steelers and Aaron is like, okay, like, once you show up, like, we need all of you, bud. We need you. We need you all the way here. And so Aaron's taking care of everything he needs to take care of now. And when he shows up, I do think he'll be all in. And again, I think a huge part of this is marked by what happened with the jets last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I recap your seemingly logical explanation?

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So Aaron Rodgers was upset that when he left the team to go to Egypt, during a time when all of his teammates were actually rounded accountable to play for the jets, that people covered that like it was a news story because he was the quarterback of the most famous person in the team. And he didn't like how that played.

[Albert Breer]

Out because it was his news story.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So he didn't like that a news story was a news story. And now he is doing this. I don't know what I'm doing yet. But then he's also showing up on Pat McAfee, just opining on stuff and kind of doing whatever he wants. Like if I'm on the Steelers, and I thought this guy, I, I thought Rogers was. Didn't want to get hit anymore. Last year. I don't know how you felt. Did you feel like he wanted to get hit anymore? Cause I didn't.

[Albert Breer]

So I think that there's an element of that. But I think if you go back and you watch, you see pieces of it, like I'm telling you, just pull up like a 10 minute highlight of their game against the Jaguars, which nobody watched because it was the jets and the Jaguars at the end of the season. But if you pull up like a 10 minute YouTube highlight of that game at the end of December, you'll see it's like all still there. You'll be like, wow, like that looks like Aaron Rodgers in 2011. You know, I mean I, I didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Realize he was able to pull that off against the tanking Jaguars.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, but it does look good. I'm just telling you like, like I understand but like there were some real, there was like some high level shit in that game and he and Devonte Adams, they, it, it, it's really, it's, it's all there, you know, so, you know, I think, I think what's maybe most interesting about this whole thing to me is where the Steelers are and that they are so leveraged for right now. T.J. watt wants a new contract. He's turning 31. Minka Fitzpatrick's turning 29. I mean Cam Hayward isn't on the back nine. He's, I mean basically walking to the clubhouse now like he, this is probably his last shot. They trade for DK Metcalf who's a third contract guy and has had some injury issues. Like it's really, I mean this is a team like if this group's going to win, it sort of has to be right now. And so you know, I think a big part of you know, the Steelers logic and I felt like all along like they were going to be a contender for whatever big name quarterback became available. Is Kirk Cousins a swing for the fences?

[Bill Simmons]

I've been waiting on that one by the way.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, and like to me like that's the thing with Kirk. It's like Kirk is like more, you may be more likely to hit a double with Kirk and less likely to hit a home run if that makes sense. You know, where with Aaron maybe you're more likely to strike out but at least you're swinging for the fence is when you've been really average at that position since Ben Roethlisberger retired.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're basically only in the torn Achilles recovery old quarterback business at this point.

[Albert Breer]

If you're Steelers available though, I mean if it wasn't going to be Stafford, right. Like, and I think Stafford was the most logical answer for a lot of different teams, you know, and the Raiders and Giants were really in that one. The Steelers dipped their toe in it. I like there just aren't that many options, you know, so it was A bad year to be looking at quarterback in the draft, especially, you know, if you didn't have the first overall pick and the veteran options. Again, like there were a lot of, I mean, the Rams, when, the Rams, when, when the Rams made the offer they did to Stafford, you know, back in March, it was with it in the back of their head, this guy doesn't want to leave Los Angeles and this guy doesn't want to play for anybody but Sean and the Giants. And the Giants had the. Yeah, and the Giants had the same. The Giants had the same like, sort of thing in the back of their head as they were, as they were pursuing him. Raiders too was like, yeah, we're really going after this, but this guy's going to wind up back in la. So, you know, if you take Stafford off the table, then it really is, it's Cousins, it's, it's, it's, it's Rogers. And then, I mean, now after that, you're talking about getting into like Joe Flacco territory. There just wasn't a lot out there.

[Bill Simmons]

So just all, all probably washed up guys.

[Albert Breer]

So.

[Bill Simmons]

The Steelers died in the last month of the season. And one of the people, one of the, one of the reasons they died is TJ Watt died as the season went along and the last, I don't know, 40, 35, 40% of his season, he just didn't seem disruptive anymore. And I know they, you know, maybe under the, under the radar blaming the Russell Wilson thing got weird. Team wasn't that good to begin with. The schedule got really unfavorable for them down the stretch, et cetera, et cetera. But like, I'm looking at FanDuel and they are over eight and a half wins.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which with Tom in the. Tom and ERA for me is just a blind. I don't even have to look at that checking it. That's +1.25 on FanDuel because all the action has been on the under, which is now minus 145. I don't know how much that's just.

[Albert Breer]

Because Basin Rudolph's the quarterback right now.

[Bill Simmons]

But could it also be what happened to them in the last month, the last season and the fact that you could point to a couple AFC teams and go, well, that team's going to. The Pats are going to be better, the jets are going to be better. They're in the same thing with the Ravens, the Bengals, they might fix their defense. We'll see with Hendrickson, the Browns might actually have a little more stability at quarterback. AFC south is going to be better, except for Houston. You go on through and it's like, maybe this is going to run out this year. I'm just starting my homework and it makes. They make me nervous.

[Albert Breer]

They're, they're so, like, I would, you know, I would say like, they're, their offensive line should be a lot better. Like, and they've actually drafted, okay if Troy Fatano, you know, works out for them at tackle, you know, they've got Broderick Jones, that's two first round picks a tackle. They should be as strong. Zach Frazier might be the best young center in football. Like, they, they have a chance to have the best offensive line they've had in over a decade. And then if DK Metcalf comes through, and I know I'm talking a lot of ifs here, right? Like, if DK Metcalf comes through, if TJ Watt is himself again, if Minka, Fitzpatrick, if Aaron Rodgers is still alive, right? So like, there's all of these ifs. But if, but if you're them, like, what's your other choice? You know what I mean? It's either, it was either this, like, take this big swing at quarterback and try to get it right and try to squeeze a championship run out of this core that you've had together for the last few years, or blow it up. And like, that's why I look at this as like, that's, it's a, it's the one team where you look at it. I was like, that's a team that, like, that's a really worthy swing because now at least, like, you're taking that swing with T.J. watt and Fitzpatrick and like some really great players they've had there for a long time. I don't, I don't mind the swing if I'm the Steelers and, and look like, I think people there would tell you that the Russell Wilson thing undermined so many things in the last month of the season and that a lot of that building really wanted them to go back to Justin Fields. And it was, it was something where, I mean, Tomlin was kind of, again, all on his own on that one. And I think it's part of the reason why Tomlin likes Shador, like, like he likes to do are going into the draft. But I don't think Tomlin wanted to, I don't, I don't think he wanted to like, press that button again, a quarterback after what happened with Russell at the end of the year last year. So there's some dynamics there where it's like. I mean, there's some stuff that happened at the end of the year in games where it was just like, man, like, if we were just like, average at that position or we were just running the running things as they were supposed to be run, we might have been okay. And like. So I think their thought is if we can get like, 80, 85% of what Aaron Rodgers was three years ago, like, we might have a Super bowl team, which you can argue whether they would or not. But I think when you. When. If you're them and you're looking at it with this group of players that you've had for the last few years and this might be your last shot before you really, like, go through, like, a real reset, then it's worth taking that swing.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, philosophically, they just feel like they're one of the teams that have decided it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money at quarterback unless the guy's awesome.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And we could patch this together, put together the rest of the team around and try to get to 10, 11 wins every year, and then hope we can cross our fingers. Here's the issue for them. I mean, if. If I asked you on FanDuel right now, who had better odds to make the playoffs, the Patriots or the Steelers, who would you say?

[Albert Breer]

Well, because you're asking me, I know it's the Patriots. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I probably could have framed that better. I should be better at this after 19 years. Yeah. The Patriots are plus 158. The Steelers are plus 164. Now, a lot of that has to.

[Albert Breer]

Do with this schedule.

[Bill Simmons]

This schedule the Patriots have is. It's comical.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you're like, is this real?

[Albert Breer]

Where are they?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, there's Buffalo. Okay. There's. But you go through it. It's like they're favored, apparently, in 11 games. I think it is. I think it's 13 of the 17 right now. Or 12, something like that, anyway. Yeah. Well, we'll see with Pittsburgh. All right. What's your number two thing?

[Albert Breer]

So my number two thing, the Cowboys, a year after Jerry Jones famously used the phrase all in, actually pulled an all in move and traded for George Pickens. And this one is really interesting to me because they're another team where, like, what. All the things you said about the Steelers, I think, sort of apply to the Cowboys. Right. Like, is this group that they have right now going to be good enough? And, like, is there something that you can do to try to put that group over the top? And so I think the answer Was like, we gotta get Dak Prescott some more help. And so that when they went into the draft, they looked at it like, we either want to come out with a, come out of this with a lineman or a, or a receiver. And I think if Tetterola McMillan, who went eighth to the Panthers, made it to 12, like maybe that would have been a consideration. But they were sort of looking at it as this mosaic. It's like, well, we still have. There were, I think there were a handful of receivers they were considering in trade, veteran receivers that they had studied and they had talked to teams about. And so McMillan's gone. They like Tyler Booker, they just lost Zach Martin, they draft Tyler Booker and then on the back end they go and make the deal for George Pickens, which. Here's the most interesting thing about it to me.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm cracking my neck as we get ready for this.

[Albert Breer]

This is so, so, so this one. This one. So the reason, one of the main reasons the Steelers got rid of George Pickens is because, like, the issues with him a lot of times have come out, come down to his role in the offense, the direction of the offense, and how much he's getting the ball, which is normal with a lot of receivers. He's very over the top with it, which makes him worse than most with it when it comes to that stuff. And so when they traded for DK Metcalf, Metcalfe, the thing was, it was like he plays the same position. Not that, not that they're just receivers. The same receiver, same run in a.

[Bill Simmons]

Straight line, down the sideline position, the X receiver position.

[Albert Breer]

So they're both X receivers. Okay. So now you got to figure out a way to play them together. And now George Pickens is in a contract year. So do you think if he goes through a two or three or a four week stretch in the middle of October with say three catches, and is he going to be okay with that just because we got another receiver?

[Bill Simmons]

So as we discussed earlier, the quarterback situation might not be to George's liking.

[Albert Breer]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So to say the least.

[Albert Breer]

So is he going to be okay? Is he going to be okay with. If he wasn't okay with it before now, in a contract year with $100 million on the line, is he suddenly going to be okay with. No, that's fine. I'm okay. DK Metcalf's on the team now. Okay. So, like, that's part of the logic for the Steelers and moving off of them and saying we're going to be better off with Calvin Austin. And Roman Wilson and whoever else.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, can I interject one thing here, but when he started the Thursday night, that last play of the game against the Browns.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When instead of trying to go for the Hail Mary, he just chose to get in a fight with the D back that he'd been waiting to get in a fight with for an hour.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That to me is like, it's the beginning of the end. At least with George and Pittsburgh. That was such a weird play.

[Albert Breer]

So there's that, but like, and there's the lack of effort, blocking sometimes, all of that. Right. Like, so, like that all exists. Okay. So if, if that, if that, that whole thing was going to be the ball, be, be. Be it be a problem in a contract year in Pittsburgh, who's one of the highest volume receivers in football as far as targets go?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, CD Lamb.

[Albert Breer]

Right. So, like, is this now going to be okay with him again? He's in a new place. He's with new offensive coaches who are in their first year truly running the offense because Mike McCarthy's gone now and he's not getting the ball with all that money on the line. Is he suddenly going to be okay with that? Like, that?

[Bill Simmons]

You don't think they're going to take care of him as part of this deal? Because that was my assumption.

[Albert Breer]

Not right now, they're not. I mean, they're going to see how it goes. And like I said, like, everything, everything's going to be in May and June. Like, like, it's all. It's really easy for everybody to have their arms around each other and say, this is all going to work out. May and June. It's a little different to project these things in September and October. They still have the Micah Parsons thing floating around out there too. Like, and I, and I know, like one thing that they had sort of discussed with with George and his people was, are you comfortable going into the year without a new contract? And the answer was yes. And so like, if they go into the year. So like. But you can look at that both ways, right?

[Joe House]

Like, is it.

[Albert Breer]

Are you going to get a super motivated guy who's going to be out to prove to everybody he's team first? Maybe. I think the people in Pittsburgh would tell you what might be more likely is if he's not getting the ball a month or two into the season, you could have a problem. So that's sort of like, we also.

[Bill Simmons]

Have a, we have a 30 year, maybe even longer sample size with receivers like this who aren't getting paid or aren't getting the contracts they want, then aren't getting the ball enough and kind of how that's going to go. I just, to me, like, from afar, it's just like a typical Jerry Jones move, but it's a sh, it's another shiny new toy. It's like when, when the bark box comes from my dog every month and it's like, hey, it's a newspaper. That's a squeaky toy and my dog will be excited about it for 20 minutes and then moves on to the next thing. That's how he's been in free agency almost every year. I thought they, I mean, running back to me was a way more important. They, the running backs murdered them last year. They addressed that, too. The offensive line isn't close to where it used to be.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And I don't see any scenario where they're one of the top two teams in the NFC East. So you're just going into a season knowing you're number three and maybe even worse if the Giants are a little bit better right away than people think. So I don't, I do not feel good if I'm Dallas. Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

And that division, by the way, you've seen the schedule for that division. They're playing the NFC north and the AFC west.

[Bill Simmons]

So brutal. It's the worst one of all the schedules.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah. Yeah. So. So, I mean, it's going to be really interesting and I think a lot of it for them is counting on Brian Schottenheimer as a culture builder, that he'll be able to build the right environment. But yeah, that'll go. I always go back, but I always go back to like, I don't like the idea of like the receiver that the Steelers, that Mike Tomlin is ready to get rid of. Like, the history of that's not great. You know, like when, when Mike Tomlin, I mean, back in 2015, 2016, like, did anybody think of, like, Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell as bad guys? It wasn't until they were gone really, you know, or disruptive in some way. They got disruptive at the end. Like Bell got disruptive at the end. But it's like generally when, when, when the Steelers are ready to walk away from a guy for those sorts of reasons or a guy who has that sort of background and generally it doesn't work out for the next team that gets them.

[Bill Simmons]

Dallas is, you could get. And they're over under eight and a half. Playoffs not looking great. I, I, I'm, I'm down on them. What's your third thing.

[Albert Breer]

Derek Carr tired, which I feel like this maybe because it happened on a Saturday, kind of like flew under the radar, you know what I mean? Like. But it's one of a number of quarterback situations. I kind of grouped this together. This is cheating a little bit by me. But the Saints, the Vikings, the Browns, like I, there are, it feels like a few teams where the quarterback situations are going to be really interesting and.

[Bill Simmons]

Or macabre or grizzly. I don't know what the right adjective is, but there's going to be some tough ones.

[Albert Breer]

I mean I throw the Viking, I'm hesitant to throw the Vikings in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't be hesitant. We don't know if JJ McCarthy coming off the torn ACL is going to be good. Who knows.

[Albert Breer]

And the reason, the reason I throw them in there with the other two is because the expectations are so high there. Like if you're a player on that team that's a 14 win team last year, like that's not the type of team that like can throw the year overboard in the name of quarterback development. So you know, what does that look like? And you know, I know like JJ fought through a lot last year, lost a lot of weight like and he had a lot of ups and downs like coming back from that injury and you know, obviously had the second follow up surgery was more of a cleanup. He's in a much better place right now and I don't think there's a better place in the league for a young quarterback to be. Especially because of what they did with their offensive line and signing Ryan and Kelly and Will Fry and drafting Donovan Jackson and you know, getting Christian Derrisa back obviously will help a lot but the Vikings are the one where I look at it and it's like so much is going to hinge. I mean that could be a Super bowl team if JJ McCarthy has a great year or the quarterback position could really hold them back.

[Bill Simmons]

Well plus especially you had Cousins for a few years there who regardless of how you feel about him, was still a significantly above average quarterback. Yeah. Then you get Darnold for four months last year who was excellent and now you have a new guy who God only knows coming off acl.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

So I gotta look at those three teams. Like I, the Saints to me, I mean like Tyler Schuck, Spencer Rattler, I mean Jake Hayner's hurt now.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, can you explain the salary cap piece of it? Cause wasn't it in a weird way a great thing that Derek Carr retired? Cause I think the Saints Were going to suck either way. So doesn't that help them?

[Albert Breer]

It was one of the more bizarre endings to a career I've seen in 20 years covering this. I mean, it started with, if you go back to the end of the season, like, I think like Kellen Moore committed but didn't really commit to Carr as the starter in, in the, in the introductory press conference. Then there were some whispers that Carr wanted to trade. And some teams sniffed around that they.

[Bill Simmons]

Sniffed around and it smelled like sewage.

[Albert Breer]

They were like, oh, and, and, and then there was, and then there was. Well, Carr wants a raise because.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

To affirm like, this is my team. Then.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, we gotta, we gotta confirm that he was so good the last two years. Let's give him the car keys.

[Albert Breer]

Then after that, then after that, they convert his contract, which basically means he's on the team without really consulting with them, which they can do. It's a contract mechanism, but it basically locked them in where it converted. It took like, basically, you know, 95% of his set, 98% of his salary and turned it into a signing bonus.

[Bill Simmons]

So they F themselves for this season with how they did that because they didn't think this season was going to go on.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, they had. And that restructures that, that, that restructure pushes the cap money forward, but it basically locks him in with the team now. Yeah, where they are saved by this is that they, they, they don't have to spend that money now. Now they, they sunk a $10 million roster bonus into him and part of the separation agreement is he gets to keep the $10 million roster bonus.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's a buyout.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, for the most part. And now, and now they move on and we'll see. I mean, Tyler Schuck was in college for seven years. He was at four different schools. I've actually, I, I, I've heard he has, I think it's 4 degrees, which is pretty wild. But like, he was, he was Justin Herbert's backup for two years at Oregon, which is, which gives you an idea how, how, how old he is. And then you have him competing with Spencer Rattler and you know, you see where that goes. And that looks like. Is this in full res? Is this a full reset year for them where they're in the mix for one of the quarterbacks next year? You know, obviously there's a quarterback who could be in the draft. I don't think he will be in the draft, but a quarterback who could be in the draft next year. Year with a very Famous last name that has ties to that organization.

[Bill Simmons]

Wouldn't you say that's the number one? I could see them tanking once we get to November NFL team that we have. I can't even think of another one that would be a bigger suspect.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, I mean like they. I'd have to think about that one. I mean I don't know how many teams there are that are like just outright in that position and need a quarterback. Might wind up being in that position where they're not very good and you never know like the way these things are going to play out. And Kellen Moore is a first year coach obviously can't afford for them. It's hard for him to number one.

[Bill Simmons]

Because like even if you look at a team like Tennessee, they just got their quarterback. Right. So it's not like they'd be like, oh, I hope we suck. Carolina has a quarterback. Chicago has a quarterback. Cleveland would be the only other one. Right.

[Albert Breer]

Vegas should be competitive. I think more competitive with Gino as a quarterback. So yeah, I mean Cleveland would be the other one if that thing crashes and burns.

[Bill Simmons]

They just took two. Yeah. And the only other one I can think of is the Colts. Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's probably an AFC south team that will be have the number one pick next year would be my guess. The Colts have the Colts.

[Albert Breer]

The Colts. The Colts are interesting because that could be, I mean obviously with, with new people, with a new owner, a new principal owner in charge and then like the GM has been there now for. Chris Ballard's been there for. This will be his ninth year there and they really haven't accomplished a ton. If he's in trouble, then maybe the coach is in trouble. It could. If things get off to a bad start there, it could get messy in a hurry.

[Bill Simmons]

He's good at telling everybody how well he's doing though. Chris Bauer, it's going great. He seems like a lot of people love him. And every year it's like a victory lap about how good their drafter for agency was. And then you know.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, it's hard because like I mean like they, it really. While Luck was still a quarterback, it looked like it was really going in a great direction. And then you know, you have the surprise retirement. Two years, seven years there. And that was, that's the thing is like it had been a crutch for a while and it can't be a crutch anymore. It's been way too long.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you look at that division because I think Houston's. I really liked Houston last Year.

[Albert Breer]

So Houston's my.

[Bill Simmons]

They make me really nervous. Right.

[Albert Breer]

Not enough people are talking about how I think Houston could bounce back in a really big way.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, make the case.

[Albert Breer]

So, like, I think Houston, I think Houston's got a top five defense, and I think with the level of like, like the young core players like Will Anderson and Derek Stingley, and, you know, they bring Danielle Hunter back and they've got, like, a lot of nice ancillary pieces on defense, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good coach.

[Albert Breer]

They've got the defense.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

They've got the defense where they want it. And part of the reason they traded Laramie Tunsil was because they felt like the culture in their offensive line room was broken and that they weren't able to kind of match, like, the culture they built on defense, on offense.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting.

[Albert Breer]

And so they trade Laramie Tunsil. They bring in a million different tackles to try and fix it. They draft the kid from Minnesota. They bring in Trent Brown and Cam Robinson. They just throw a bunch of darts to tackle. They bring in a new offensive coordinator from the Rams and Nick Kaylee and.

[Bill Simmons]

Take two wide receivers from the same college.

[Albert Breer]

Right. Who I think have a chance to be really, like, if you look at the history from that school, like, a lot of guys from that school come in and produce right away. So it wouldn't shock me, like, as like, complimentary pieces to, To Nico Collins if those guys are playing pretty well right away. And you have C.J. stroud, I, I look at it and I'm like, a lot of people have totally forgotten about them. I think they have an elite defense. And if your problem is offense and you've got CJ Stroud to build around, and you're bringing in a coordinator from the Rams who I think is really capable and has both, like, the Josh McDaniels and Sean McVay background, and you play in a weak division. And like, as much as people thought they were not the same last year, they were down by one point going into the fourth quarter of the divisional rounded arrow.

[Bill Simmons]

I was just gonna, I was gonna say that. Yeah, well, that Chiefs game is the best case for that. They're actually going to be good this year, and they're a little, little closer than people think. The other case would be the division.

[Albert Breer]

Right. Right. So, like, like, it's. I think we look at it like it was broken because our expectations were so high after CJ's rookie year, D' Amico's first year. And I'm, I, I just don't know that teams are looking at that, like, I don't know if people are looking at that team enough and saying, you know what? Like, there's still a lot of, like, really good stuff in place here. And if the young quarterback bounces backwards, CJ was doing incredibly high level shit in 23. Like, that could be a dangerous team. Now, do they break into the Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City? Do they break into that tier? You know, Cincinnati could get back into that. Like, maybe, maybe not. But I think they're like, if you look at like the, the teams in the afc, like, they may have the best chance to do it of the, of the teams that are right below that.

[Bill Simmons]

So the division odds. Do you know what their odds are?

[Albert Breer]

Houston's gotta be an overwhelming favorite, right?

[Bill Simmons]

So that's what I thought too. Went to FanDuel. They're plus 115 to win the AFC South. I don't know who else you would bet in the AFC south unless she wanted to really talk herself into Jacksonville.

[Albert Breer]

I was going to say, is there like a lot of belief in James Gladstone and Liam going now? I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Or, or is there belief that that trade might, we actually might be like, wow, Travis Hunter's like, pretty good, but holy shit, they gave up a lot for that guy. He's not jumping on my tv.

[Albert Breer]

I can't wait to watch him. But I just.

[Bill Simmons]

Me neither.

[Albert Breer]

I think Jacksonville's problem, like, under the last regime, you know, the. And this is where I think, like, there's some cleaning up that needs to be done.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

Is like, they paid a lot of good players, great money. Like, there are guys there, there are guys in that roster that they paid like their franchise players when they're just pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

And you know, Trevor Lawrence on that list.

[Albert Breer]

Because I would, I mean, you, you could, you could. I think, you know, they, they pay Walker a little to play left tackle after he played for like 15 minutes for them. Right? Tyson Campbell at corner. I mean, Christian Kirk is gone, but I think he'd be another example of that, you know, like, there was just a lot of examples of like, I mean, you could even, you could even like, argue that, that, that Walker is one of those guys. You know what I mean? Like, so, like, are they just. Do they just have like a collection of pretty good players and they don't have like, the types of. They don't have, like Houston as Will Anders. Like I said, Will Anders, Derek Stingley, Nico Collins, C.J. stroud.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they have an identity at least, right?

[Albert Breer]

Like, how many players on Houston's roster, like, if you rank the two rosters, Houston, Jacksonville, how many Texans would you have to go through to get to the first Jaguar?

[Bill Simmons]

Oof.

[Albert Breer]

You know.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, well, I sidetracked it. You have two more on your list.

[Albert Breer]

Yep. So number four, Caleb Williams is in the news again. And this is an excerpt from, I think our mutual friend Seth Wickersham's book. And it was for those who missed it. Before the 2024 draft, he and his dad had looked at the idea of. He and his dad had looked at the idea of forcing their way out. I guess what you would call it is pulling an Eli. And had their eyes on the Vikings. And the Vikings had actually researched Caleb too. That was the, that was of course the, the draft they took JJ McCarthy in. So like this has become like a little bit of like a firestorm in Chicago. And I think it's sort of, I think the first signal of like, what's to come for Caleb there. And I think he is such a high end talent. Like when you.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, when you say what's to come, you mean venom and disappointment. Well, just.

[Albert Breer]

No, like, just, just the level of like the training wheels are off now.

[Bill Simmons]

The excuses are gone from a scrutiny standpoint.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, like, like now it's like you have to start playing well.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

You know, we've seen the year two jump. I mean, this might get you excited about Drake too, but we've seen the year two jump where. I mean, I mean, but you look at it like Patrick Mahomes, MVP of the league his second year. Lamar Jackson, MVP of the league his second year, Joe Burrows in the, in the super bowl in his second year, Josh Allen, 10 wins. And in the playoffs in his second.

[Bill Simmons]

Year, Drake May is going to be in his second year.

[Albert Breer]

And, and so like you look at all this right, like, and so like, is, is Caleb going to take that step? And I think, I think this is like a, like this, this is the scrutiny that Caleb's going to be under because they fixed so many things. They drafted Colston Loveland, 10th overall, Luther Burden with their second pick. They traded for Joe Tuney and Jonah Jackson to play guard. They signed Drew Dahlman from Atlanta to play center. They hire Ben Johnson, which is a huge part of it.

[Bill Simmons]

They removed every excuse he had, coaching, offensive line, weapons, whatever. It's. He has everything now.

[Albert Breer]

He has. And you look at it and it's like, this is a, this now looks like they should be able to get a very clean read on what Caleb can be. And it was interesting because I did a little Reporting on this last week where, you know, I kind of, like, asked around, like, you know, what they've been working on with Caleb and the stuff that they've been working on was really how you carry yourself as a franchise quarterback and how you. And how you have to like the command that you have to. Have to be a franchise quarterback. And, you know, a couple of the examples that were brought up to me, they watched tape of him taking sacks and how long it took for him to come off the ground. And basically the point they were trying to make to him was last year was a tough year. We understand your offensive coordinator gets fired, then your head coach gets fired. Your offensive line wasn't very good. We get it. It's like. But if you're lying on the ground, you know, for an extended period of time, you're not picking yourself up off the ground, that's going to resonate with the rest of the team. That's the sort of thing that's going to end. So it's like you need to be. You need to be popping up off the ground after hits. Another.

[Bill Simmons]

Show them Drake. Show them Drake. May tapes of him popping off the ground during his 120 sacks.

[Albert Breer]

Probably could be a good example. Yeah, another thing they said, they showed tape, like, early in the game of him, and the motion's coming from the right and he's looking to the left. And so there's little things as far as, like, command. Like, we want you to be the commander of the offense. And so, like, so much of what they're doing right now is we're trying to make you the guy, and we're going to give you every tool to make you the guy, and we're going to tell you how you have to carry yourself as the guy. And so, you know, I think. You know what, though, he's gonna take a big jump.

[Bill Simmons]

This is why we spend so much time talking about this position, because what works and doesn't work is so complicated and has so many different factors in it. And all the stuff you're talking about is what I believe in the quarterback position. It's not just about your arm strength. Can you move around like you really. You're a leader of men. You're. You have to be the most charismatic guy on the team. You have to make those guys believe in you for, you know, 12 months a year. And the guys that fail are always the guys that fail that test.

[Albert Breer]

I. I remember Brady saying. I remember talking to Brady about this way back when I was covering the.

[Bill Simmons]

Patriots by the Way who. Brady put the most thought into this out of anybody, but go ahead. And he.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, and he said to me, the only way I can show my toughness is availability. The. That's the only way I can at that position. The only way I can in this tough. In this. This game where everyone's tough. It's like, the only way I can prove my toughness to the guys who are really out there in the trenches is to be available and to be the first one into the huddle and to be the first one up and to be available to them. And I think that was sort of the point with, like, you have to be the first one to pick yourself up off the ground, too, because no matter how hard you got hit, someone's probably hurting worse than you are out there on that field. And, like, even, like, the thing about the motion, right, like, is it going to be like, that guy who's coming, that receiver who's coming in motion right from your right and you're looking left, Is that guy going to follow you after that happens? You know what I mean? Like, or he. Is he going to see that and say, what. What is this kid doing? You know? So it's little stuff like that that I think they're trying to do to empower Caleb, and that's really interesting. Yeah. And so I think, like, it's. It's just. I think that stuff is really. They're trying to kind of empower him to be the leader there. And I even think, like, the way he handled the. The. The. The backlash, the set thing, I think it was yesterday. He stood up there and he just. He stood in front of the media and said, like, look, like he took the bullet for it. He said, look, when I was coming out, me and my dad were looking at everything. My dad, as any parent would, was like, just. We were just investigating all of our avenues. Once we came and visited the Bears and we got to know the organization, we felt differently about it, but of course, we looked at the history of it, and it was. To me, it was like he could have hid from that. You know what I mean? Like, he could have just said, I'm not talking about it in the past, but the only way to kill that story is to stand up there and answer the question. So I thought that was a pretty good sign for maybe him maturing a little bit and growing into the leadership role for. I mean, what's. I mean, one of the most. I mean, that market for football, like, that's one of the more pressure packed Markets in the league.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Certainly among the hungriest. Yeah. If the story's true, admit it's true, and then nobody's going to talk about it anymore. It's funny, though, that a lot of the stuff heading toward that draft, when people were trying to say what they were concerned about with them and nobody could fully articulate it, and then the way this story blew up over the last month, it's like it's kind of what we're talking about. We know you have the talent. There's more to that position than just talent. Are you going to figure out that part and that's it. I mean, even Anthony Edwards was taking shit during this OKC series about people didn't like how he handled the Game 5 loss. They didn't like that he disappeared a little bit in Game four. And it's like there's just a different spotlight of how are you getting picked apart when you become the guy. And that's for sure how it goes. It's funny you mentioned the getting yourself up fasting, because there's a social media video of all the hits Brady took, especially early in his career, which were. There's one, I think it's the Colts. He's running, he's scrambling on the right sideline and just doesn't see somebody. And he just gets, like, annihilated, like it's a video game and he gets right up like that. But he was always passionate about that, which was what was so scary about the ACL injury, remember? Because he didn't get up that time, it was like, oh, this is bad. He's not getting up.

[Albert Breer]

Sometimes you pick up things on these things, covering them in really stupid ways. And this is one example for me. So, you know, when I was, when. When I was covering the Patriots, when I was on the beat, you know, my roommate's one of my best friends from college, and he was coaching. He was a limited earnings coach at Northeastern before they dropped football and we were living in the North End and so, like, he and I would. Would talk about all these things and I remember him like, it was. It was awesome. Like, you know, when I. When I watch football with him, like, he would actually come and watch with me when I would, like, watch the Patriots games over again. And he said, you know what the difference with Brady is? And I'm like, no, what would you say it is? It's like, it's that he lets the plays develop. It's like if you watch other quarterbacks, they get rid of the ball. He is so willing to take the hit. And this was before the acl, Right. But he is legitimately, like, watching him, he was saying to me is like, he is legitimately giving the receivers an extra second to get open. He is giving everything an extra second to develop because he's willing to take a hit that the other quarterback won't. You know, and I thought that was such an interesting piece of insight, and I think it matches up with what you're trying to say on Brady. And I think the guys. The guys recognize that, too. You know what I mean? Like, the receivers recognize that, too. The guys who. Because that's going to help them out.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the amazing thing about Drake May last year.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He was always willing to hold the ball for an extra second to the point where, like, dude, we're going to go 3 and 14, like, maybe just get rid of the ball. But he didn't want to. And I think that speaks to what you were talking about, the concussion at.

[Albert Breer]

The end of the year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. But also, like Rogers last year, I didn't feel like he wanted to keep the ball. I thought he wanted to get rid of it. I don't think he wanted to take hits last year. What's your fifth thing?

[Albert Breer]

So I was. I had, like, tush push here, but I'm so freaking sick of talking about that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, please.

[Albert Breer]

I'm done with it.

[Bill Simmons]

I did. Well, I will say, I did love the Eagles owner getting all aggro about it. I like when those guys get aggro in those meetings. And he really seemed like he was, like, challenging the manhood of, oh, the other odors, which is, like, hilarious how he approached it.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think calling the other owners a teenager was. Was. Was an interesting, Interesting strategy to take. I. I think. I actually think the bigger thing to come out of that meeting is the discussion on the Playmat playoff format changing and the.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's go. I was hoping you'd bring this up.

[Albert Breer]

So, like, I don't think enough people are talking about this. When they first brought it up in the meeting in. In March, they had. They. They had probably five or six votes. So for people don't know, you need 24.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you got to explain what the. What the big tweak they wanted to do.

[Albert Breer]

So they wanted. They wanted. They wanted. So you still get in the playoffs automatically if you win your division. But they want open. But the Lions proposed open seating, more or less. It would mean everything. Like, you know, you're seated purely by record.

[Bill Simmons]

But the genesis of this. Explain the Vikings Week 18 thing, because that's. That's where this really starts.

[Albert Breer]

So I like. So, yes, the Vikings. The vikings in week 18 were in a war with the Lions. They. They lose their 14 wins, and now they got to go on.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the most violent game of the year, basically.

[Albert Breer]

Right. And they got to go on the road in week in the wild card round and play a Rams team that rested Everybody in week 18 and last, what, four left?

[Bill Simmons]

Four more games than the Vikings.

[Albert Breer]

And, like, I think they had 10. I think they had 10. They were 10 and 7. Yeah. So they were four games worse. But I think the nuance to this is that people think this is about fairness for the league, and it's not. It's about games in week 17 and week 18 being compelling. And the Rams are actually the example of why the Rams are. What scare. What the Rams did scares the league because the Rams didn't have nothing to play for in week 18. If you remember, they could have played to avoid the Vikings. Like, they could have been the third seed or the fourth seed. Sean McVeigh makes the conscious decision. It's more important that my guys get the rest then play for the third seed. So I'm going to sit everybody down. They lose to the Seahawks.

[Bill Simmons]

I was on this podcast saying I couldn't believe they're playing this this way. How would you want to have. Like, this is nuts. You're going to end up playing the Vikings or the Lions. That's crazy. Why would you want to do that?

[Albert Breer]

So that scares the league because it paid off. And because now you have a team and the NFL, they're very cognizant of what's happened in the NBA, and they look at each of the 272 games as pieces of real estate that they can sell. So are we making those pieces of real estate as valuable as we possibly can? If you have the format they have now, I think is fair in a lot of ways because of the scheduling formula and the way that works. But you have these games at the end of the season now where it's like, screw it. Like, we'd rather get the rest.

[Bill Simmons]

But how does. How does the 18 game season tie into this?

[Albert Breer]

And that's what I was going to say is like, the. This is like. So they're projecting it forward and they're saying this is going to get worse.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Albert Breer]

Like, it just works for the Rams, and this now is going to get worse if. If we don't do something about it. And so if they have open Seating, like there will be more to play for at the end of the year. The problem is the scheduling formula. In the NFL, you only play 14 teams over the course of a year. Of course you play your, you know, three teams in your division twice and you only play teams in your conference. You only play 11 teams in your conference. So the schedules are so wildly different. And I use the example of like the NFC East.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Albert Breer]

Like, so the NFC east plays the NFC north and the AFC West. This year the NFC west plays the two south divisions. So I mean, you could argue an 11 win season by the Eagles is more impressive this year than a 13 win season by the Niners. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, no question.

[Albert Breer]

The Niners have played eight games against those two south divisions.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's the reason the Niners over under is like three wins higher than it seems like it should have been. Because their schedule is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah.

[Albert Breer]

And so like you had the Rams COO Kevin Demoff stood up in this meeting, you know, last week and basically said to the room, guys, we need to decide what we're trying to do here. Are we trying to be fair or are we trying to make the games at the end of the season more compelling? And that led to like more big picture talk where I think the scheduling formula is going to come under some scrutiny. Are we doing this right? And I think the scheduling, the scheduling formula I think is mostly fine. Yeah, but like that's the sort of big picture things that they're going to be looking at. I mean, was it possible that it would be fair to have every, like just have open conference and no divisions? Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't, I don't, I do not like that.

[Albert Breer]

And like just. But, but, but here will be the idea. You play, you play every team in your conference. So you have 15 games in conference and then if you're going to an 18 game schedule, you play three games out of conference every year. I like, I don't, I'm not wild.

[Bill Simmons]

So you would basically you do two divisions instead of three. You play everybody in your division twice. That's 14 games. No, no, no, no, no.

[Albert Breer]

You, you deconstruct the divisions altogether so.

[Bill Simmons]

You have an AFL 16 team division. You'd play 15 division. Yeah, I don't know about that.

[Albert Breer]

I mean, it's, it's one solution. But I like, but the point is like, I don't think they're going to do that. But the point is like, I think this is the sort of big picture thinking that's coming out of it. Like I saw you know, on the way out of the meetings, a team president say to somebody else, you know, hey, I want to be part of the scheduling discussion. It's going to be a big picture topic for them over the next couple of years. And I think it's going to have way more of an impact than what everybody was focusing on last year with the last week with the Eagles.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Albert Breer]

Because it could, you know, they could lead to some structural change in the way that all this stuff works. So I.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, think about this. Last year, Tampa was 10 and seven. They're the three seed. The Rams were 10 and seven, they're the four seed. The Vikings were 14 and three. Five seed. And Washington's 12 and five. Six seed. So, you know, if it's within two wins, I get it. Because that can be really comes down to, oh, my division was way harder than yours. We had to play the other, other conference division. I think when it gets to like more than four wins, like did they talk about the possibility of you have to be three wins better than the team you're playing in round one to have the home game?

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, that, that was one was like, do we have a marker where it's like if there's a three game gap or a two game gap, then like, then, then, then that's a stipulation in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you like that?

[Albert Breer]

I just feels like too arbitrary for me. I don't know. I mean, there, there was another one where it was like, you have to be plus 500 if you win your division. You have to be.

[Bill Simmons]

I've been saying that for 20 years.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah. You have to be plus 500 to get the automatic seat. Otherwise you're in the pool with a while.

[Bill Simmons]

So you have to be 9 and 8 or, or 7 and 2 or whatever it is. You have to have some sort of over 500 record.

[Albert Breer]

Right. So they had, they, they discussed that, which I, that makes some sense to me too. I just, I think, you know, when you're in a league that only plays 17 or 18 games and you're not playing everybody, it's just the, the records aren't the same. The records don't mean the same thing. And so I, I don't know if there's really simple way to, to take care of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. If you go through the previous seasons. Yeah, that like. So in 2022, Tampa was 8 and 9, hosting the 12 and 5 Cowboys in round one. That's where it gets stupid.

[Albert Breer]

And they beat them.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And by the way, they won't.

[Joe House]

Right.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah. Well, The Seahawks. You remember the Seahawks in the, the, the Beast Quake game, the Marshawn game.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the famous one.

[Albert Breer]

Right, right. So they beat the Saints. And I think if I remember right, the Saints were like 11 and 5 that year. It was like Breeze in the prime of his career and they had to go all the way to Seattle.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they were like, yeah. So I. If it's 17 game, it's 17 game season and it's three wins higher than the other team. I kind of like that because then if you're trying to make stakes for week 18, I think that's one way to potentially do it. I don't know if it solves every problem, but I thought the fact that the Rams, that you made the key point earlier, the Vikings are in this absolute war and then they have to go play the Rams the next week, who have just, you know, been on vacation basically for a week.

[Albert Breer]

And coming off the wildfire thing and they're playing. And the game was weird in Arizona. Like the Vikings were dealing with all these strange circumstances.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, right, right.

[Albert Breer]

And it was like. But again, I think that's what scares the league is like, if that really worked, that means more teams are going to consider it next year.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you don't, especially in 18 games. You could do it for the last two games of the season.

[Albert Breer]

But even like, even this coming year, don't you think some teams are going to look at what the Rams did and say, like, we need to consider that if we're locked into a playoff spot and we're just playing for, you know, a single, a single spot in the seating.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

Like maybe we are better off sitting all of our guys. And if you watch that game, you go back and watch that game, the Rams look like they were shot out of a cannon. Like, and the Vikings looked like they were dead legged. So I think, you know, like, that's, that, that's what scares the league about it. And I think it's, it's something that's going to be part of like the big picture discussion going forward.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you explain everybody in 40 seconds why we're going to 18 games? Because you know the answer.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah, it's because of money. I don't need 40 seconds to explain that.

[Bill Simmons]

But why would the players agree to it?

[Albert Breer]

Because it's eventually going to be shoved down their throat. And like, I think for the players it's as much about, like, how do we, how do we get as much as we can for it? And I would say, like my argument, if I were If I were the union, what I would want is you need to get me to free agency quicker. Like you need to. Instead of it being four years on rookie contracts, you need to have it be three years. Because if you think about it like the difference between 16 and the difference between 16 and 18 games, right? That's eight more games that you've got to make it through to get to free agency over four years. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Playoffs.

[Albert Breer]

And you're talking about the most violent game, right? Like, so that's a real thing that, you know, if I'm looking at, I'm a player, I'm like, you got to get me to free agency quicker. The problem is in the NFL is that the union is controlled by the older players. Who is that going to be a priority for them to get a 22, 23 year old to free agency faster? Generally, historically, it hasn't been the priority for them. But I think that that's what you would. If I'm the union, like, I think that would be one of the first things I would ask for is you have to get more of my players to free agency faster. And maybe even like you, you look at franchise tags and those sorts of things. Is there a way we can loosen the reins on those as well?

[Bill Simmons]

So the older players wouldn't want that to happen because they're competing with those people at free agency. And then you have a league that 80% of the people, their careers are what, three years or less, four years or less.

[Albert Breer]

It's the dichotomy of the league.

[Bill Simmons]

So they can't, they can't go on strike because you just lose the season and I've lost my earning power for one of the four years basically.

[Albert Breer]

Right, right, right. That's exactly it. Like, that's a dichotomy of. It is like the rank and file in the NFL is making less than a million dollars a year and like is probably going to be out of the league within a couple of years. So they've got a take every dime they can get while they can get it. And yet the guys who are controlling the negotiation are the 1% of the 1%.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we're wrapping up. So apologies to Jim or say and Trey Hendrickson's contract, but you do have to give me 25 seconds on Drake May, who's really the only thing I have going for me now and the Red Sox co op room and Anthony.

[Albert Breer]

I would say the best thing I could say is like, the new staff's gotten in there. There was a lot of things broken last year. Josh's offense is pretty complex. He has worked on kind of simplifying some things. He studied the college game a bunch last year to try to make it a little more user friendly. But the best thing I can tell you, the most encouraging thing I can tell you is that they, they have not needed to, like, game the offense up to make it work for Drake May. He has looked like a professional quarterback in the meeting room and on the practice field at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

And they got him a left tackle who's, who's already sworn to protect him with his life. Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones style. Like that lady. What was her? Brianna. Brianna or whatever.

[Albert Breer]

I can't remember who it was. There was somebody who tried there was somebody who tried to top it later in the draft too, who said that they were going to lay their life down for the franchise. There was. I don't know if that's going to become a trend now. Like, who can go more Braveheart on like.

[Bill Simmons]

I love it. I've consumed all the Will Campbell content and I'm here for him. I love how there's some. All he wants to do is protect Drake B. That's his job in life.

[Albert Breer]

If you Google it, there's some really good, like LSU weight room content that you'd really like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, I haven't watched it. Come on.

[Albert Breer]

Okay. All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't care that his arms are an inch short. I'm all in on Will Campbell. All right, so you can read, read Albert on SI listeners podcast as well. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on.

[Albert Breer]

All right. Thanks, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and Mahoney and Albert and Gal and Eduardo. You can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well. Don't forget new rewatchables coming on Monday. We're doing out for justice, the Steven Seagal anti classic. This is an unbelievable movie. I can't wait for you to watch it this weekend. We will be me and Kyle Brandt coming Monday night for you on that and then Rosilla and I on Sunday. Have a great weekend. I will see you on Sunday. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-3275-4 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-888-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.