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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The "My Guy" Fantasy Football Draft (4th Annual!) With Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck
02:03:56
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Yahoo. Fantasy. It's my favorite time of the year. The NFL season almost here. Fantasy football full swing. It's happening this season. Yahoo. Fantasy is taking it up a notch and giving you a fantasy football experience like never before. This year I'm playing on Yahoo. Fantasy and you should too, because we have a big ringer league that we're doing. We're going to do a live draft, we're going to have bragging rights and all kinds of things that are going to be happening. You should join us. You should have your own league. Yahoo. Fantasy dropping 28 big new features over 28 days through August. They just dropped Yahoo. Fantasy guillotine leagues where the lowest scoring team gets eliminated weekly until one is left standing. Give this new mode a try or stick with the classics in private head to head leagues or public leagues. Stay tuned for more killer announcements. Start playing Yahoo. Fantasy football now@yahooFantasy.com Simmons this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it, like in a friendly little competition. It's always better when there's something worth playing for. And Micklobe Ultra, a superior light beer is a pretty great prize. I would, I mean, I would be all tennis for Micklobe Ultras because that's what I do all summer because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball. So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever. Let's play for an ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this summer@doordash.com enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Bush Michelob Ultra Light Beer St. Louis, Missouri the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find these guys, our Ringer Fantasy football show crew. You can find. The fantasy guide is on the ringer.com, well, it's sort of technically on the.
- [01:53]
Danny Heifetz
Ringer.Com fantasy football.theringer.com it's a great product.
- [01:58]
Bill Simmons
I like it. We're doing this Yahoo. Fantasy draft on Monday and you're banning. Are you banning laptops?
- [02:06]
Craig Horlbeck
No technology. Pencils and paper?
- [02:08]
Bill Simmons
No technology. Draft. I don't know. So you have to print out stuff? Yeah, I know, like a magazine or something.
- [02:14]
Craig Horlbeck
If you can find a printer somewhere in this world.
- [02:18]
Bill Simmons
I really liked. So our phones banned?
- [02:20]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [02:21]
Bill Simmons
No phones.
- [02:22]
Craig Horlbeck
No.
- [02:23]
Danny Kelly
This was all. This was unilateral crazy.
- [02:26]
Bill Simmons
This is great.
- [02:27]
Craig Horlbeck
Hi. Fitz was in on it. Yeah. Yeah. For Phones for emergencies only.
- [02:31]
Bill Simmons
I mean, I was doing fantasy when we just had like the USA Today, like just seasoned leaders and that would all he looked at and just. I can't wait. So we're doing a ringer draft on Monday and you can watch it live on the fantasy football channel that these guys have. New rewatchables is coming on Monday. We are doing Witness. It is movie number 399, which you can watch on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Coming up, we're doing the annual My guy fantasy draft. 30 categories. It went way too long and insults were thrown around. Can't wait. We took a break, Pearl Jam and then the draft. Sam. All right, we're taping this on a Thursday afternoon. I'm here with the ringer fantasy football guys. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlbeck, who's in my life with the rewatchables as well. I think. What is this fourth year we've done this or third?
- [03:44]
Craig Horlbeck
Third.
- [03:44]
Bill Simmons
Third.
- [03:45]
Danny Kelly
At least third.
- [03:46]
Bill Simmons
At least third. Maybe fourth. It's an annual tradition, the My Guy fantasy football draft. We have all these stupid categories. We draft different people. We try to make fun of as many people. I found, like, I had less animosity toward fantasy football guys this year.
- [04:02]
Craig Horlbeck
It's a really good top 30 this year.
- [04:03]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it's like I was going through and I'm like trying to find people I wanted to short or be against or be angry about. I just. I don't know how it fits. I just felt kind of happy and blissful and liked everybody.
- [04:14]
Danny Heifetz
Are you just like more forgiving in your old age?
- [04:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I didn't have a lot of grudges. There weren't like I saw Trevor Lawrence that made me mad. But just for the most part, I wasn't angry at a lot of people. Cause Kyle Pitts, obviously. But that's like, that's this ground that we've tread so many times. Like, who are the angry guys this year? That meant that I think are triggers for people.
- [04:34]
Craig Horlbeck
I think the entire Miami Dolphins team. Pretty frustrating group of guys.
- [04:38]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. But isn't everybody kind of lived with that and.
- [04:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [04:43]
Bill Simmons
Gone through it and like everybody's kind of given up on potentially not being disappointed by them.
- [04:48]
Craig Horlbeck
I agree with you that there are. There's not a lot of guys to hate this year. And I kind of think part of that is there was just a lot of good rookies and second year guys last year that broke out. There's just like so much new talent. There's so much like New stuff to get excited about. You can just like, scroll and be like, ooh, that guy. Ooh, ooh, lad. McConkey. Like, you just kind of like a lot of people in the top 50 this year. So. But we'll see.
- [05:07]
Bill Simmons
There's guys, there's less, like, old, kind of semi washed up sort of guys, like those Keenan Allen types usually have a ton of those. Like, I'm not taking that guy.
- [05:15]
Craig Horlbeck
And a lot of. A lot of the bets from last year, like, Derek Henry, is this going to work? He's washed. That worked. Saquon, Barclays. It's going to work. That worked. So a lot of, like, risky bets paid off. And so now those aren't things that people are thinking anymore.
- [05:27]
Danny Kelly
I think Christian McCaffrey is the guy that comes to my mind where you're like, what the hell do I do with this guy?
- [05:33]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but that's turned into a game of chicken where people now are positioning it when they talk to other people about, like, I wouldn't go near it, but meanwhile, they're like, I'm definitely pushing him down.
- [05:42]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, it's a good point that you're making because, I mean, basically, you know, happiness is just expectations minus reality. And I think to your point, if you take away McCaffrey, all these older players are, like, surpassing expectations. Now what you think? Yeah, they just keep going. Derek Hemi had the quietest 2,000 yards from scrimmage ever, and he's 30 years old. Like, I mean, didn't even talk about it because Saquon did what he did after, like, the running back narrative flipped and all these older guys performing. McCaffrey was the only guy who didn't. But then the rookies, the same thing. We heard all this hype. There's a lot of hype. Except for Morgan Harrison Jr. All the other rookies hit the mark. And so I think that those two guys had the animosity, but everyone else actually really surpassed it. So we have this weird. I feel like this is an NBA thing too, where the older guys are hanging on. So you have younger guys seem like more prepped. I guess the NBA, they're a little younger. But, like, you have this thing where older guys are hanging on. So you still have Mike Evans, you still have Derek Henry, you still have, like, guys that you. Devonte Adams, who's 33 but getting, like 20 million a year.
- [06:36]
Craig Horlbeck
But now you have, like, Brian Thomas and Conkey and all these rookies. That worked out immediately. So the. The collection of good players is just bigger.
- [06:42]
Danny Heifetz
Yes, exactly.
- [06:43]
Bill Simmons
But do you feel like part of it is this social media era where everybody. All the players can fire back at people and players have podcasts and, I don't know, 30 years ago, we would've.
- [06:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Just been like, fuck, Caleb Williams.
- [06:55]
Bill Simmons
He sucks.
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Danny Kelly
I was gonna bring up Caleb Williams.
- [06:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. But Caleb Williams, I feel like, would have been way more polarizing, where everybody's so glass half full on everybody. Now it's like, Caleb Williams, I don't know, 4,000 yards. But maybe it'll turn. Maybe this will be the year. There'll be a lot of disappointments, and then next year we'll be that. I fucking hate that guy. I fucking hate this guy.
- [07:13]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I think we're in a weird era now, though. Like, there were literally AI videos, players that. You don't know if this, like, Debo Samuel. There was a video that literally made Debo Samuel look fatter than he was just to get people, like, against him in Commander's practice.
- [07:26]
Danny Kelly
Well, I don't think we even know if that was AI.
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Craig Horlbeck
Was it not?
- [07:29]
Danny Kelly
I don't know. I don't remember.
- [07:30]
Danny Heifetz
I think it was just a camera with a different lens.
- [07:32]
Bill Simmons
Oh, I thought he was that chunky. He was that chunky.
- [07:34]
Craig Horlbeck
People apparently put him back on my board.
- [07:36]
Danny Heifetz
The problem is we're at a point where it's really difficult to find the answer to someone's like, this Photoshop's AI. And we're like, I don't even know how to check that. And, like, Brock Bauer's being bald. And, like, someone just Photoshopped it.
- [07:47]
Craig Horlbeck
There will just be, like, a video of J.J. mcCarthy making some terrible pass. And then if you read the comments, everyone's like, that's Sam Howell from last year. But there's like. Yeah, there's like, these accounts that are like, you know, these bots trying to take people down. It's kind of hard online now to decipher what's going on.
- [08:00]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, one of my friends sent me this AI thing of the sad me meme when I was sad at the Celtic Game. And it. And I'm sad, but then all of a sudden, I get excited and start pumping my fist.
- [08:11]
Danny Kelly
No way.
- [08:12]
Bill Simmons
They did an AI and it fucking freaked me out.
- [08:14]
Danny Kelly
Oh, yeah, that's weird.
- [08:15]
Bill Simmons
It was, like, happy me, but I had, like, big, like, Al Pacino teeth in it. That was the only way you knew it was fake. But, yeah, this is gonna be the next five years of us trying to figure out what's real, what's not real.
- [08:24]
Craig Horlbeck
A lot of propaganda in training camp now.
- [08:26]
Danny Kelly
Oh, yeah.
- [08:27]
Danny Heifetz
Yes.
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Bill Simmons
That's the other thing.
- [08:28]
Craig Horlbeck
The online propaganda. It's just hard to know what's real and what's not.
- [08:31]
Bill Simmons
Well, and we have these coaches that are really good at selling their.
- [08:34]
Craig Horlbeck
Everyone's savvy now.
- [08:35]
Bill Simmons
Everyone's mad at Sean Payton now that he's, like, talking up his team too much. He just compares. Talk about that.
- [08:41]
Craig Horlbeck
He compares every single hall of Famers. It's like, this guy reminds me of Pat Bryant. Reminds me of Michael Thomas.
- [08:45]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [08:46]
Craig Horlbeck
RJ Harvey reminds me of Alvin Camaro. Patrick Mahomes.
- [08:50]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, Mahomes.
- [08:51]
Craig Horlbeck
Can we come up with better comps, dude?
- [08:53]
Bill Simmons
It makes it way harder to figure out the Nobody Believes in Us team, which is actually not just big for futures and betting and picking stuff, but also for fantasy. Because, you know, you want to figure out, like, the. When we're going to talk about, like, we have all these categories, the team you definitely want all the guys from the team you don't want all the guys from. But the sleeper team sometimes, like Tampa last year, if you went in on them, you had Baker and you'd. Bucky Irving, and you had the receivers like you. You were loaded up. What were we gonna say?
- [09:21]
Danny Heifetz
I just think that nobody believes in his team is tough because, like, I forget which team coined that. Which team was the. The 2007 giants. Right? And so I just think that that was like, sorry, that was kind of dickish. But. No, it's always true.
- [09:32]
Bill Simmons
I'm not giving them credit dicks.
- [09:34]
Danny Heifetz
But I think that it was like, this is a different era of media, but I think now, basically, you're talking about adversity. And it used to be like, Tom Brady would go home for practice or a game and turn on espn. And now guys just look at their phones, at their locker. So, like, they're in their mentions, so they're. It's never been easier for individual players or teams to find things that you have coaches printing out tweets people send. So it's, like, weird because it's like, Patrick Mahomes. Like, the Chiefs just went to three Super Bowls, and they had. They. And Patrick Mahomes is, like, finding stuff. Like, even Steph Curry is, like, at halftime, I feel like checking his mentions, and he's Steph Curry.
- [10:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [10:10]
Danny Heifetz
So I feel like everyone's just finding advice.
- [10:12]
Bill Simmons
I think you guys should have done that with the fantasy landscape. It's like, nobody believed in us. Second biggest fantasy pod. People said we couldn't get here. Just start doing that.
- [10:23]
Craig Horlbeck
When our name was the Dynasty Football podcast Nobody believed.
- [10:26]
Danny Heifetz
Nobody believed. Because you googled it, it wouldn't come up.
- [10:28]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, they thought it was a typo.
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Bill Simmons
Now Matthew Bear is calling us. All right, let's go through this because we have a lot of stuff to hit. We added categories this year. The most important category, though, we'll just go in order this way. So you go and everybody gets to pick and then we do the next one and Danny Kelly goes. Sweet high Fitz, my one true love. Who is it for you in 2025?
- [10:53]
Danny Heifetz
It's a little lame. I don't care. It's Jameer Gabis, the running back for the Lions. And it's this simple. It's because I think that to win the conversation we were just having, there's just a lot of players. You could take number one overall this year. And so I think that frankly, there is an unusually high caliber of people you can get fourth. And I know that for you that's a booker eater draft and you prefer auctions. But like I. All my no. 1 anymore, none of my friends want to do it anymore. So if you just get the fourth pick this year, I've even seen the fifth pick and you end up with Jameer Gibbs and you're like, I feel like in most years Jameer Gibbs would be going first in a lot of recent drafts. And I just think he's the best running back in the league. If you want to do Bjorn Robinson, that's cool too. But I just, I love Gibbs and that kind of guy in this, in the Lions offense and everything and especially that defense is probably going to be bad again. So he's going to get so many touches. And I just think it's such an unusual profile for a guy that's still ascending and getting better, that it's just a crazy good player to get in basically the middle of the first round.
- [11:44]
Bill Simmons
So you had him in the ringer Fantasy football guide. A great product. $59 for him. Number three player overall. You agree with that? Danny Kelly?
- [11:55]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, I mean, I think right in that range. I don't think you. I would not look at you sideways if you pick him first. Really a lot of people.
- [12:03]
Bill Simmons
What scares me about him, a lot.
- [12:04]
Danny Heifetz
Of people, it's just skating with the puck setting. It's just he. Next year Bijan and Gibbs will be the top two picks. Like you would just.
- [12:10]
Bill Simmons
You agree with that?
- [12:12]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. I've never had Jameer Gibbs in a fantasy season and every year I'm jealous of the guy who does.
- [12:17]
Danny Kelly
He's just so explosive. I think obviously the Question marks this year are. Is the Lions offense going to take a huge step back with Ben Johnson gone? And I still think they have so much talent and I don't know, institutional knowledge, I guess, in terms of what. How they want to run their offense. This new guy can probably, you know, make it a pretty good like new.
- [12:37]
Bill Simmons
Guy, doesn't know his name. Morton, John Morton, offensive line and no Ben Johnson sign me up.
- [12:46]
Danny Heifetz
Is like the new Trent Williams where his ability, he can. They can pull Penny Sewell as a tackle on plays that usually you have to pull a guard because he's so fast he can get there, which is just a Trent Williams thing. So as long as Penny Sewell is there, they're able to do things in the run game that literally other teams are not able to do. They can try things no other team can do. And that is the kind of advantage that it doesn't necessarily leave because that's.
- [13:06]
Bill Simmons
A pretty boring pick because your cohorts all agreed with it and we can't even debate it. Something scares me about him from a durability standpoint.
- [13:14]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [13:14]
Bill Simmons
How many has he ever gotten? He hasn't gotten like 350 touches.
- [13:18]
Danny Kelly
Well, he's so. He's kind of like the new Alvin Camaro a little bit in the in sense of just so efficient with his touches.
- [13:24]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah.
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Danny Kelly
And he scores so many touchdowns. Explosive player, big plays.
- [13:28]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [13:28]
Danny Heifetz
But when David Montgomery went down at the end of the season, Jabir Gibbs was just like the best player.
- [13:32]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. He had like 280 touches last year.
- [13:33]
Bill Simmons
Okay, who do you have? DK?
- [13:36]
Danny Kelly
I might have one that's a little controversial, I guess here I got Brock Bowers for the Raiders. I think there's a lot of people that are worried right now in fantasy land because of the way that the Raiders are using him in the preseason, which I know sounds silly, but this does kind of move ADPs and create a level of concern with him because he's not playing as many snaps with the starters as I think you'd want. They have Michael Mayer playing a bunch and maybe he's not. They're not going to use him as a blocker. But I'm just like, I'm going to ignore all that. Bowers is just too good. I mean, if you look at what he did as rookie, third in receptions behind only Jamar Chase and Amon Ross St. Brown, he has elite wide receiver numbers as a rookie tight end.
- [14:14]
Danny Heifetz
He has the most catches ever for rookie in any position.
- [14:17]
Danny Kelly
And this is the same guy who like going Back to his college as a true freshman at Georgia. Led the Bulldogs in receiving on a team that had lad McConkey, AD Mitchell, George Pickens, James Cook, Darnell Washington, Jermaine Burton, Aaron Smith. All draft picks like super talented group and he was by far the best. He's just, I think he's just a really good player. Craig and I kind of argued about him last year because there was a picture of him wearing like an auto trader T shirt and he just looked like.
- [14:43]
Craig Horlbeck
He looked like a software engineer.
- [14:45]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, he looked like not athletic whatsoever. I was like, Craig, you gotta go watch.
- [14:48]
Craig Horlbeck
And then a photo came out of him. Bald, shaved. Everybody thought he had shaved his head. AI not real.
- [14:54]
Danny Kelly
Anyway, be careful out there.
- [14:55]
Bill Simmons
I had him on one of my teams last year and it was glorious. And then when you actually watch and there's less in the late, late afternoon part of the schedule, eye test wise, he just like jumps out of the TV like he'd make crazy catches in traffic. Yeah, Seemed just unstoppable.
- [15:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Originally I was kind of like eh, tight end in the first round. I don't love it. I do think I'm now starting to underrate Geno Smith being the quarterback. Like we did this last year with Derek Henry and the Ravens. We were like, oh, you know what, it's a different team. And now it looks so obvious. It's like of course the Ravens, Derrick Henry and the Titans. The lowest yards before contact. The Ravens had the highest yards after contact. And it's like of course it made sense. Saquon on the Eagles we overthought that I'm like Brock Bowers going from Aiden o' Connell and Gardner Minshew and Desmond Ritter to Geno Smith. And he did what he did last year with those three quarterbacks, I'm kind of like, man, I don't know, maybe this guy should just be like the sixth pick in drafts.
- [15:51]
Bill Simmons
Well, it comes down. Doesn't it come down to math if he's 70 points higher than the next tight end or something crazy like that? I always think that way. I've gotten to the point with fantasy where I'm just like, can I just have one of the best QBs? Because they all get 50 to 70 points more than every other QB.
- [16:08]
Craig Horlbeck
100%. Yeah.
- [16:09]
Bill Simmons
With Bowers, if he's like a wide receiver, eight at tight end, I think that makes him first round value in a booker team.
- [16:18]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [16:18]
Danny Heifetz
The easiest way to win your league with like your friends, if they're not paying a ton of attention is to just play Lock an elite quarterback, lock in an elite tight end like Brock Bowers. Get a running backs early and just win on receivers and running backs later in the draft. Like that's generally the easiest way to do it.
- [16:31]
Bill Simmons
I'm in on that. And I think the Geno thing is the underrated piece of it and underrated with. I'm kick drove a couple standing mock things with the Raiders as a seven seed just to see how it felt just to you know, I'm in the store putting on the jacket, kind of walking around looking in the mirror see.
- [16:49]
Craig Horlbeck
If it feels the floor associates like. You look great in that.
- [16:51]
Danny Kelly
Did you see Pete Carroll in his starter jacket?
- [16:53]
Danny Heifetz
He looks great, man. All, all the players like Genti Geno, Pete Carroll, everyone just looks great as a Raider.
- [16:59]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, well you think like it's cool.
- [17:01]
Craig Horlbeck
When the Raiders are good.
- [17:02]
Danny Heifetz
It's the yes. And the Raiders have not been good.
- [17:04]
Bill Simmons
While we've been as Craig knows I invented the three in three out for the playoffs, right. Saying that. I don't know if I invented it or not, but I wrote about it in 2010. I was like, craig, I invented this. I'm just take credit for it.
- [17:15]
Danny Kelly
You're like, sure.
- [17:16]
Craig Horlbeck
I was like, well, if we're going by that classic thing where you know four teams stay in, three teams go out. And then he was like, I invented them.
- [17:22]
Bill Simmons
I have no idea if I did. But I'm taking credit for anything else.
- [17:24]
Danny Heifetz
Piano, key, necktie, anything else.
- [17:25]
Bill Simmons
The three and three out. The easiest thing to identify is like did a team have a shitty quarterback and a shitty coach and do they now have a competent quarterback and a competent coach? They fit the model for it. And then you think like Bowers and if Genti's good, they're not going to be a bitch to play.
- [17:40]
Craig Horlbeck
I mean the Raiders didn't score any touchdowns last year. That was the only thing holding Bowers back. He had five touchdowns. And it's like, all right if he is Geno Smith now. I like the Bowers to 10.
- [17:49]
Bill Simmons
I love it. What do you have for my. My one true love?
- [17:51]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm going with Drake London on the Falcons.
- [17:54]
Bill Simmons
You've always liked them.
- [17:55]
Craig Horlbeck
I like Drake London. I'm. I'm big on Atlanta this year. I think Penix is good. I think the offense is going to be one of those, I think like, like the Bucks last year. This is going to be an offense that you kind of want everybody on the team. I think Drake London's not that famous. He's a really cool name, but he's not that famous. I think he's like the cheapest guy you can get. That could be the number one overall receiver in fantasy also you just look on like Fanduel. He's 22 to 1 to lead the league in receiving touchdowns.
- [18:20]
Bill Simmons
That's.
- [18:20]
Craig Horlbeck
I think he has as good a chance as anybody. When, when he played with Pennix last year, 40% target share, first in the NFL. 117 yards per game first in the NFL. He got 60% of the team's end zone targets last year first in the NFL.
- [18:32]
Danny Kelly
60.
- [18:33]
Craig Horlbeck
I think it's a perfect storm of like you have the gunslinger even if Penix worst case scenario to me Penix is like Jameis but for fantasy that's all right. So if you have the gunslinging Pennocks you have a year two in a system of Zach Robinson and Raheem Morris. I thought they did a Good job year one. Zach Robinson comes from the McVeigh world. He's like moving Drake London around. He's moving him in the slot. They're like scheming him open and there's not like a true other alpha competition. There's like darn on Mooney's good. You have Kyle Pitts, you have Bijan Robinson. But I just think it's all going to funnel to Drake London. He's going to have like a Mike Evans 15 touchdown season.
- [19:08]
Bill Simmons
I guess where I pause is you thinking Michael Pennix is definitely good but he doesn't just don't know.
- [19:16]
Craig Horlbeck
He just has to be a gunslinger which I think we know also is.
- [19:19]
Bill Simmons
He going to be healthy? How many times did he get hurt in college? That was the big reason why he fell in the draft.
- [19:24]
Danny Heifetz
Penix being the new quarterback. Yeah.
- [19:25]
Bill Simmons
He's like everyone's just penciling him in for 4200 yards and 30 TDs and it's like how about he's going to play 12 games?
- [19:31]
Danny Heifetz
What are you worried about? He only had four season ending injuries in college. Right.
- [19:34]
Bill Simmons
I just.
- [19:35]
Craig Horlbeck
That's fair. Am I crazy though that all right, their backup is Kirk Cousins who maybe as a starter.
- [19:39]
Danny Heifetz
Wash. That's a good point. Not a bad backup was injured last year but he. It would not be weird to think Kirk is better this year than last year because he's a year further removed from the Achilles. I think to your point though, I think to kind of square what you guys are saying because I don't think you're necessarily wrong that I just don't.
- [19:55]
Bill Simmons
I'm wide open on Penix. I don't know where it goes.
- [19:57]
Danny Heifetz
He may not be good enough to get Atlanta the playoffs, but I think that one thing we know about Penix is he's going to throw deep down the field like Pennix. Frankly, in a league where everything we keep bitching about, everything's like neutered. All the passing, it's like the bumpers up on the bowling lane. Like no one pushes downfield anymore. Like Mahomes, Pennx is ripping past. The only people last year that were throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield on average was Richardson, who got benched, and Penck. And like, that's what we liked about Jamis. He's throwing so deep and like that was him in college. He was just putting it up there for Roma Dunes and Jalen Poke, who's that guy?
- [20:30]
Bill Simmons
Drake May is going to be like that too.
- [20:31]
Danny Heifetz
Michael Penix got Jalen Polk drafted by you guys in the second round. Jalen Poke, is he going to make your team like that?
- [20:37]
Danny Kelly
No, he's on IR now. Yeah.
- [20:39]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he's out for the season, right?
- [20:40]
Bill Simmons
He just got. He's out with a shoulder separation thing and my buddy Hench texted this is the first separation he's had since he's been a Patriot.
- [20:47]
Craig Horlbeck
That's good. Tough one.
- [20:49]
Bill Simmons
Tough one for Poke.
- [20:51]
Craig Horlbeck
So. Yeah. Also Atlanta, fourth easiest schedule.
- [20:54]
Danny Kelly
That's huge.
- [20:56]
Craig Horlbeck
A lot of shootouts.
- [20:57]
Bill Simmons
I was going through all my podcast notes last year to remember what happened last season. Cause you just get amnesia when you're going through the season and you forget 90 things. Atlanta was terrible last year. Remember? They should have been like 3 and 12 at one point. Well, Kirk, they won all these dumb games. They won that dumb. What was that week two game against Philly?
- [21:14]
Danny Heifetz
Saquon dropped the ball.
- [21:15]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but they had like five of those and we were like, how are they? At one point they were -400 to win the division. And they were awful.
- [21:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Kirk was a mess. Kirk was like that last time with Ben Roethlisberger where he was like just Adele Parkenbach couldn't move Kirk.
- [21:27]
Danny Heifetz
It's weird because Kirk has always been this way where you think of as an average quarterback, he's actually incredibly streaky, extremely hot and cold. And he was very hot in the beginning. He was actually in the offense really well. Yeah. But then he. And then he was the worst quarterback.
- [21:38]
Craig Horlbeck
He was so bad, couldn't throw.
- [21:40]
Bill Simmons
I have a lot of true loves this year, so I wanted to target one that I couldn't figure out another category. I'm not just doing this because DK Is here Jackson Smith, the Jigba.
- [21:52]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [21:53]
Bill Simmons
Who I had last year on one of my teams. And I thought for about seven weeks he was one of the five best receivers I was watching every week. He was open all the time. There was like no difference between him and Aman Ross St. Brown. He was fucking awesome. Every third down it was third nine, third and ten. Danny knows. And then at the end of the year, their offense died and I'm not sure what happened to the off. Remember they had that one like they had the six to three game. The offensive line kind of died. The running back situation got weird and the team just kind of cratered. Right. At a point when it seemed they're going to win. There was some Metcalf stuff. I just think this year he's by far the best receiver they have. I like the Seahawks in general and I just think he's going to have a massive year. Like I think he can be in the top six or seven for receivers. I just think he's 90 to 100 yards a game. Steady third downs, touchdowns. I'm in.
- [22:47]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, he's as reliable as they come in terms of route running, hands, just body control. He adds a little bit run after the catch. He does remind me. I think I comped him to Amon Ross St. Brown coming out and he's.
- [22:58]
Bill Simmons
Open all the time, just coming across the middle out.
- [23:02]
Danny Heifetz
I remember watching the Ohio State Rose Bowl, I think it was versus Utah. I was Vangover on January 1st and I remember, I think Jackson, Smith and JBO had 350 receiving yards in that game. And I remember thinking that he was like the best college game I'd ever seen by a player. And he's not quite that. But I think because he had a weird rookie year with Shane Waldron and everything. It's. His actual level of talent has been really just straight up forgotten.
- [23:31]
Bill Simmons
He basically took the locket spot halfway through the year. Lockett was the third receiver on that team. But we had him like in the ringer fantasy football guide. Right now we have him 15th. We have him between T. Higgins and Garrett Wilson.
- [23:43]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. At the wide receiver position.
- [23:44]
Bill Simmons
And I just think he's going to end up like we have Puka six, we have neighbors, seven, we have to. I just think he's going to be in that neighborhood when the season's over.
- [23:52]
Craig Horlbeck
You can kind of go both ways.
- [23:53]
Bill Simmons
That is my guy.
- [23:53]
Craig Horlbeck
You can do like the. It's his team now. Look what he did with DK Metcalf and Lockett last year. He was still great. Now you have like a better play caller, all this stuff. And then you can be like, well, you're betting on Sam Darnold. This is a team that wants to run the ball. The defense is going to be awesome. Maybe they won't have to score that many points. Now there's only Jackson, Smith and Jigba out there for defenses to focus on. You can kind of go both ways, but I do lean your way where I think he's going to be a good guy.
- [24:17]
Bill Simmons
The talent. Well, plus, I hesitate to do this to dk. What if Kup is, like, pretty good this year?
- [24:25]
Danny Heifetz
Wow.
- [24:26]
Danny Kelly
I mean, it's going to hurt jsn. Yeah.
- [24:29]
Danny Heifetz
I haven't thought about that.
- [24:30]
Bill Simmons
But what really happened with him on the Rams was Puka was just like a younger, better version of Kup.
- [24:35]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [24:36]
Bill Simmons
And was just became Kup on the team. And then it was like watching a shooting guard on an NBA team. There's just a better shooting guard.
- [24:43]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Bill Simmons
So I just wonder like, how the, like I even. I wrote him off. I was like, that guy. I wouldn't want to draft him.
- [24:49]
Danny Heifetz
But they're.
- [24:50]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. He's in his early 30s, I think.
- [24:53]
Danny Heifetz
Is it.
- [24:53]
Bill Simmons
Is it a wrap for him? They paid for him.
- [24:55]
Danny Heifetz
Like, he's going to.
- [24:57]
Danny Kelly
They gave him a good amount of money. I think it's a huge red flag that McShay or McVay was like, yeah, we don't want you anymore, but it.
- [25:05]
Bill Simmons
Is a red flag.
- [25:06]
Danny Heifetz
Well, here's what I'm.
- [25:06]
Danny Kelly
Here's what I'll say. I think Cooper cup is going to be on the team to play a couple roles. He's going to be their slot receiver and he goes out and he can still block his ass off. And that really matters to them in terms of like, the schematic advantages it brings when your receivers can block. It's like you can run so many different. So many more different plays in like 11 or 12 personnel or whatever, where the receivers are out there blocking too. It just gives you an advantage. But I also think if jsn, he's actually. What I've heard is he's running around outside more and kind of like not just stuck in the slot. He could have bigger plays in his future and they're going to do a lot of play action. That's like a huge part of their offense. Think like Rashid Shahid and Chris Olave with the Saints last year when they were on the field together. It's like deep shots.
- [25:48]
Bill Simmons
That's great.
- [25:49]
Danny Kelly
And obviously Sam Darnold. I mean for all his flaws, he will push the ball down the field. He's aggressive downfield thrower and he's accurate downfield well.
- [25:57]
Bill Simmons
And then Valdez scantling too in the locket spot, just running like straight lines.
- [26:01]
Danny Kelly
He's just clear out routes and are you.
- [26:03]
Bill Simmons
Did you buy Horton stock?
- [26:04]
Danny Kelly
I'm buying Horton stock. I think he's going to be the number three.
- [26:07]
Bill Simmons
Let's take a a break. We are on a terrible pace. We're going to come back with my Crazy Pills Guy. This episode is brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket. If you're an NFL fan like me, there's one move to make before the season kicks off. Subscribing to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. You will get every game, every Sunday all in one place. Right now. New users can grab for eight payments for just $34.50 per month. Go to YouTube.com BS to sign up now. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games and commercial use terms and embargoes apply. Availability varies. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7, so when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Nice. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident you're getting the best. You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com Simmons terms and conditions apply. All right, Danny, you're crazy Pills Guy. The guy you're looking at that you don't understand why everybody else doesn't see it the way you see it.
- [27:44]
Danny Kelly
I don't understand why T. Higgins is so low everywhere and I'm probably part of the problem. I don't know if I have him high enough, but you have him 14th. I think we're too low on T. Higgins. Last year he was wide receiver four in points per game. He did miss like five games because of hamstring injuries I believe. But again, he averaged 15 and a half points per game. He's in the perfect Environment in Cincinnati with a pass. First team, they're very. Pass, first pass heavy. Joe Burrow loves pass the ball down the field. Trusts him incredibly in the red zone. They're just going to go out there in terms of fantasy. The Bengals offense is pure sex. It's exactly what you want. They're going to play fast, they're going to push the ball down the field. They're going to score a ton of points. Joe Burrow passes to his receivers inside the 5 and 10 yard line a lot. Like they, they will throw a lot of passing touchdowns because he just trusts him. It's kind of like the old Aaron Rodgers things like trust him to make the calls in certain areas where they're just like audibleing. You got a one on one matchup, I'm going to throw it up to you. And T. Higgins, that's like his game. He's just so big and tall. It's like you know George Pickens, but more reliable.
- [28:45]
Bill Simmons
You know why he had him 14th? Because like played 12 games the last two years.
- [28:49]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, he gets banged.
- [28:50]
Danny Kelly
That's the thing.
- [28:51]
Bill Simmons
656 yards in 23 and 911 yards last. He's only had 10 touchdowns once. He is like a little more theoretical than I think people realize. Because you catch him on the right day, you're like, oh my God, this guy's amazing. The stats get hurt every year.
- [29:04]
Danny Heifetz
The thing DK keeps dropping on me that always blows my mind is in the games that T. Higgins and Jamar Chase both played, that T. Higgins got more targets than Jamar Chase did.
- [29:10]
Bill Simmons
They're like the best passing offense since the. And he's Niners.
- [29:16]
Danny Kelly
I think he's the perfect combination of floor and ceiling at receiver for where you're getting him because he's going to give you a good floor. There's only one season he's had where he averaged less than 10 points per game and that was 9.7. So he's like, that floor is solid. He's not going to kill you. And he also has the higher end upside where if things go similar with the Bengals offense this year as they did last year, he might be a top five receiver in the NFL.
- [29:39]
Bill Simmons
I like it. Who do you got, Craig?
- [29:41]
Craig Horlbeck
Tyreek Hill. Whoa.
- [29:45]
Bill Simmons
Oh, my Lord.
- [29:46]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm willing to embrace the crazy this year with Tyreek.
- [29:49]
Bill Simmons
Wow.
- [29:49]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't get it. I don't get it. Last year, tyree kill had 1800 yards.
- [29:54]
Danny Kelly
Two years ago.
- [29:55]
Craig Horlbeck
Sorry.
- [29:56]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [29:56]
Danny Heifetz
Now you're gasping.
- [29:57]
Craig Horlbeck
The last. Yeah, not this year. We just watched 2023 at 1800 yards. He was the number one wide receiver in fantasy. He was 29 years old. He had one bad year where he hurt his wrist in August. Tua missed half the season and it was a down year.
- [30:10]
Danny Kelly
He tried to quit at the end of the season.
- [30:12]
Craig Horlbeck
He played 17 games and now 16.
- [30:15]
Danny Heifetz
And a half to kind of bench himself at halftime now.
- [30:17]
Craig Horlbeck
So he was going literally 16 second in drafts last year, second overall out of every player. He's going number two now he's going 28. And I'm like, whatever. The Dolphins are a mess. I'm willing to like, buy all that. The vibes are bad. Tyreek's talking shit about Mike McDaniel. I'm getting this guy. I'm getting Tyreek Hill at the end of the third round. If you just. If you just believe that he's not washed guys best picking drafts.
- [30:39]
Bill Simmons
I've just been down this road too many times in fantasy football. Four decades of experience. Now usually when it goes south, it doesn't come back with the receivers.
- [30:48]
Craig Horlbeck
That's fair.
- [30:49]
Bill Simmons
However, if you really did like a Sloan conference research paper on this, this.
- [30:53]
Danny Heifetz
Guy Adam Harstadt did a study on this. And like, it's totally.
- [30:55]
Bill Simmons
When it craters, it's never like, yes, back the other way.
- [30:58]
Craig Horlbeck
But it cratered half because he had a ligament injury in his wrist in August and Tua, his quarterback, missed half the year.
- [31:05]
Bill Simmons
Well, the good thing is he's a reliable health bet this year.
- [31:08]
Craig Horlbeck
Again, it's a parlay.
- [31:09]
Danny Heifetz
Parlay to be like Tyreek and Tua.
- [31:11]
Bill Simmons
Listen, this is why he's your crazy pills.
- [31:12]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [31:13]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm just like, this guy's going 20eigth overall. I get Tyree killed. I think we this was going to happen. We always talk about, like the week one test.
- [31:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:19]
Craig Horlbeck
Where it's like, it's Sunday at 11:25am and Tyree Kill has two catches for 95 yards and a touchdown already. And you're like, ah, yeah, he's back.
- [31:27]
Danny Heifetz
Because, like, to your point, dude, Bill Barnwell had one of the craziest stats I've ever read about Tyree Kill's 2023 season, which was that the Dolphins actually had like the few, almost the fewest passes in the NFL in the second half that year.
- [31:38]
Danny Kelly
Because they're leading games, right?
- [31:39]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, because they were winning. So they didn't throw that much in the second half. But the point was, if Tyree kill had his 4.0 yards per route run, if he had had as many routes as Calvin Johnson did The year he set the single season receiving mark, which was 1900 yards. Tyreek Hill would have had 3000 yards at the rate he was going.
- [31:56]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm kind of just like we had. We had one down year and the team was a mess. I don't know if he's just physically washed. I'm getting him at the end of the third round.
- [32:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm a pick. I'm not paying for him. But if he's sitting there staring at me in round seven, I don't disagree.
- [32:11]
Danny Heifetz
With what, like, it's hard to refute what you're saying where you're like, he could be a good pick. I'm like, yeah, I don't know how I can argue against that.
- [32:16]
Bill Simmons
Mine's a little happier. My crazy pill guy is on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He's a rookie receiver named Mecca Igbuka. Yeah, this just happens every year. And I'm tired of. I had Michael, I had Brian Thomas Jr. And the Michael Thomas, thank God, didn't have him. I had Brian Thomas last year and it was great. And he just got better as the year along and was just clearly one of the 10 best guys by the end of the thing. This guy checks all the boxes for me. Like he fell too far in the draft. He's going to a team that he's perfect for. They've already had receiver injuries. Godwin's not coming back till October. McMillan's out for at least half the season. I bet. When I was in Boston, I bet and I never bet on player over unders. Cause I just feel like it's stupid. You always want to go over injuries. His over under for receiving yards was 675. And I was like, I'm betting this. Like, I can't believe this should be like in the 900s. I look today, it's, it's now 825. It's 150 yards. And I think it should go higher.
- [33:15]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, you wait another week, you'd probably get it 9. You just missed it.
- [33:18]
Bill Simmons
Here's the thing. I love reading the quotes going back to Danny's guy, Russell Wilson in 2012. When the teammates and coaches, when it gets to a level of rave, you just know. And it was the case with Thomas last year in Jacksonville. That whole training camp, preseason, they were like, this guy's got it. This guy's fucking special. And that's what they're saying about Igbuka. And I just feel like you have him 44th in our fantasy draft guide. He's going to Be in the top 12 by the end of the year. My prediction? Maybe I'm taking crazy pills.
- [33:49]
Danny Kelly
Bill, regarding your bet that you made. You know who had around the same yards? What was it six? What was it?
- [33:55]
Craig Horlbeck
Six?
- [33:55]
Bill Simmons
76, 75.
- [33:57]
Danny Kelly
Ray. Ray McLeod had 686 yards last year.
- [34:00]
Bill Simmons
Like right.
- [34:02]
Danny Kelly
Wandell Robinson had 700 yards.
- [34:04]
Bill Simmons
675 is like 50 yards a game. You got it.
- [34:08]
Danny Kelly
Quinton Johnson had more than 700 yards.
- [34:09]
Bill Simmons
Who do you have for your crazy pill guy?
- [34:11]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, Jalen Hurts. The Eagles quarterback. Jalen Hurts is. He's ranked further back than Lamar Jackson. Like whatever platform you want to look at is generally like Josh Allen. Lamar like 24, 25th. Jalen Hurts is like 37th on Yahoo, 38th on Sleeper. Like that's next to Marvin Harrison Jr. And Jalen Hurts is ranked like they banned the tush push and they didn't. And I actually don't understand because people are caught up in like oh well this is ceiling as high as Josh Allen. I don't care. There is a play that the NFL, the other 31 teams want to ban because it's too easy for Jalen Hurts to score a touchdown. Yeah, it is. Literally, like literally. Without exaggeration, I think Jalen Hurts is probably in the 21st century at quarterback, the most reliable week to week player there's ever been.
- [34:55]
Danny Kelly
He doesn't have down weeks.
- [34:56]
Danny Heifetz
He doesn't have down week. Even Josh Allen has a few stinkers. He's been number one on the season. Hertz misses some games when he plays. Jalen Hurts is the best player in fan and the most predictable player. The whole problem fantasy football is hard to predict. He is the single easiest player to predict in the entire league at any position and you're going to get him. So if and this is honestly he's kind of my one true love too in a way. Maybe gives lame Hurts. If you get Jalen Hurts in the fourth round, I think that is the single best pick you can make in fantasy football this year because you're going to get a guy who is going to have more 30 point weeks than single digits. You're just absolutely.
- [35:30]
Bill Simmons
I think there'll be those games where he's just 9 for 17 for 112 yards and rushes for 50 yards and a TD and you just look at it and you're like but then he has 27 points somehow and you're like it didn't even look like he had a good game.
- [35:43]
Danny Heifetz
Jalen Hurts has played 50 games that matter in the last five years. He has 50 rushing touchdowns.
- [35:48]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, he, he has.
- [35:49]
Bill Simmons
I'm with you. He's a great guy to have.
- [35:51]
Danny Kelly
Yeah. What I love about him, and we talked, I think a couple years ago, we were talking about how he's the greatest fourth quarter fantasy quarterback of all time. Because if the Eagles are trailing. Yes. And they're trying to come back in the fourth quarter, he's running around a ton. He's passing it, you know, so he is game script proof too, you know, because he's either going to be scoring rushing touchdowns early in the game and they're going to be like icing the game later or they're going to have to, you know, last six minutes of the fourth quarter, he's going to score 15 fantasy points because he's running all around and doing everything. So it's just. Yeah. He, he's so consistent week in and week out.
- [36:23]
Bill Simmons
It's great. It's. I would still rather have a few other guys, but it's. If it's the fifth best guy and you're not paying that much for him, you're up with a new category. My. I absolutely hate myself for doing this guy George Pickens. But.
- [36:38]
Craig Horlbeck
But I'm, I'm in. I'm going to do it.
- [36:41]
Bill Simmons
George Pickens.
- [36:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:43]
Danny Heifetz
Wow.
- [36:43]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm buying Dallas. I think Dallas is the off brand Bengals this year. I think I need like, I need some oxygen. I think Dak and CD and Pickens are like Burrow and Chase and Bob.
- [36:57]
Bill Simmons
There's a guy from the stands who's their starting receiver. Running back.
- [37:00]
Craig Horlbeck
Whatever. Chase.
- [37:01]
Danny Heifetz
Starting running back.
- [37:02]
Bill Simmons
Chase Brown, who's for the.
- [37:04]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, no, you're talking about Javante Williams. Who cares? That means he'll throw it more.
- [37:10]
Danny Kelly
Or Miles Sanders.
- [37:11]
Danny Heifetz
I do think he's dead on that they're the off brand Bengals because they're the same team. They have horrible defenses. Their offense is built around a quarterback who's doing a Peyton Manning.
- [37:19]
Bill Simmons
Bengals.
- [37:20]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, they're doing Peyton Manning cosplay with these two top receivers.
- [37:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. It's like I think Dak could lead the league in passing.
- [37:25]
Danny Kelly
Shimer, let him cook. Yeah.
- [37:26]
Craig Horlbeck
Everyone talks about the Bengals last year. Oh, how many points he scored, how electric they were. The 2023 Cowboys scored more points than the 2024 Bengals.
- [37:34]
Bill Simmons
I like it. I would never take him. I think it's more likely he's off the team in week eight and something horrible happens with.
- [37:43]
Danny Heifetz
Sounds like you don't like it.
- [37:45]
Bill Simmons
Ever since that game when it was the last play of the game against Cleveland and he got in the fight during the Hail Mary before the Hail Mary.
- [37:51]
Danny Heifetz
Only cares about fantasy football.
- [37:53]
Bill Simmons
I actually completely out on picking.
- [37:54]
Craig Horlbeck
I came away more impressed with fantasy football.
- [37:56]
Bill Simmons
That was nuts.
- [37:56]
Craig Horlbeck
That was cool.
- [37:58]
Bill Simmons
My guy. I wanted to shout out Keon Coleman because I think he's going to rope me in, but I don't want to pick him.
- [38:03]
Craig Horlbeck
That's a good one.
- [38:04]
Bill Simmons
He's just getting too much buzz and it feels like, ah, 33 bucks. And then you're like, what did I do? But it's definitely Travis Hunter for me. I was like, I'm staying away. I'm not even buy. I don't even. I'm not even shopping in your grocery store. I'm not even getting a cart and pushing around. I don't want to know. I don't want to think about it. And then I read this one thing about Liam Cohen is like he's just going to be two bubble screens a game trying to bust him for 50 yards a pop. And I was like, like, like caught the holy ghost.
- [38:34]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [38:35]
Bill Simmons
What do you mean he just, just bust one at any time. Whoa, whoa.
- [38:40]
Danny Heifetz
Not doing phrases.
- [38:41]
Bill Simmons
Sorry. I was really worried about the defense offense thing. Just somebody trying to play a thousand snaps or whatever on both sides. Seems inconceivable with how fucking big football players are in the NFL.
- [38:53]
Danny Kelly
Right? And he's not big, but I feel.
- [38:55]
Bill Simmons
Like he's gonna be sitting there and I'm gonna get excited about it and I'm gonna hate myself for doing it.
- [38:59]
Craig Horlbeck
We just had a massive argument about this on our part.
- [39:01]
Danny Heifetz
Bill, I need some life advice thing. I, I, I, I think I was the single biggest Travis Hunter fan in sports media. I my crazy pills thing on the draft was basically I was just like, why did we talk about the ceiling of every prospect? No one ever admits that the all these guys are probably going to have an average outcome between whatever. And the only person we won't talk about ceiling is Travis Hunter, who won the award for best receiver in college football, best defensive player in college football. And I'm like, what if he just does both at a great level in the NFL? Everyone's acting like it won't happen or can't happen. It's impossible.
- [39:28]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. You're like, he could be Shohei Ohtani.
- [39:30]
Danny Heifetz
I've been talking about this all year. I was like, yeah, he's like, Ohtani.
- [39:32]
Bill Simmons
What if he's just 4 ca for 80 yards a week and he scores every other week and he's just doing that on the side as he's covering the other team's best receiver, Jim Thorpe.
- [39:41]
Danny Heifetz
And I'm like, he could win. Offensive rookie, defensive rookie of the year, could do amazing. And I'm not going to lie. I capitulated. I commit. I capitulated. 20 minutes before he walked in the studio, I admitted to them.
- [39:50]
Craig Horlbeck
I was like, for six months on our show, nonstop. Travis Hunter is going to blow everyone's mind. He's the best player since.
- [39:55]
Bill Simmons
Whoever you give up today.
- [39:57]
Craig Horlbeck
He was like, ah, I don't know.
- [39:59]
Danny Kelly
You chicken die.
- [40:00]
Danny Heifetz
I sold low. I. And I. I just. I saw him playing the preseason.
- [40:03]
Craig Horlbeck
Called pansy for it. It's a weak move. You should have doubled down. Stick with your gun.
- [40:06]
Bill Simmons
I should have, yeah.
- [40:07]
Danny Heifetz
But I'm worried that, like, I need.
- [40:09]
Bill Simmons
The strength to stay away.
- [40:11]
Danny Heifetz
I'm worried that, like, the meetings, he's going to fall behind and stuff and they're just going to play him at, like. It's going to be really frustrating. It's going to be cool on the field, but, like, for your lineup, it's going to be kind of, like, annoying.
- [40:20]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm nervous. It could be cooler in real life than in fantasy. It's like, okay, he plays double the snaps. You don't get double the fantasy.
- [40:25]
Danny Heifetz
The Jags play the Bengals in week four or five and you're like, so do I bench him because he's going to have to cover T. Higgins. And you're like, I've never asked that question before. So it will be a new experience, I guess.
- [40:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, it's like you never want to have the first of anything, right? You never want, like, you don't have the first iPhone. It's like, oh, it's not going to work. 19 things are going wrong. First iPad. The first, like, car that has gas and electricity and it's like a hybrid and it's like it's in the shop. So maybe, maybe wait a year for Hunter.
- [40:51]
Danny Heifetz
I think that's.
- [40:52]
Bill Simmons
I still. If he's sitting there, I still feel like I. Oh, I get it. Who do you have High Fitz.
- [40:57]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, I hate myself for doing this guy.
- [40:59]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [40:59]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, this is the easiest category. It's Kyle. Pittsburgh Falcons. He's back.
- [41:02]
Bill Simmons
He's almost honorary. Yeah, he's grandfathered in.
- [41:06]
Danny Heifetz
Best situation Kyle Pitts has ever been in. Cheapest he's ever been. It's that simple. Like, he.
- [41:11]
Bill Simmons
I will never do it.
- [41:12]
Danny Heifetz
When he had more, he was a top. He was a fourth round player. Marcus Mariota was his quarterback. We ranked him in the fourth round. Michael Penix, the last quarterback throwing 10 yards a throw is his quarterback. He's a 14th round pick on ESPN. I mean he's going near Hunter Henry and I'm like Kyle Pitts. Everything we've ever said about his upside remains true. I'm just saying. Yeah, like he's been not met expectations.
- [41:36]
Bill Simmons
The problem is not that good. But when you watch the Falcons, he's not like a tight end like Bowers or Kittle. Like he can't really block. So he's basically a wide receiver and he's not as good as the other wide receivers on the Falcons, I guess. I don't know what he is.
- [41:50]
Danny Heifetz
Ray, Ray McLeod, he's a vertical receiver. And I'm not even saying he's necessarily going to be ever what we thought he'd be. I'm just saying Michael Penix made Jalen Polk an early second round pick and Jalen Polk will probably never. I'm just saying Penix made Poke.
- [42:03]
Bill Simmons
He made all the skies dk. Who do you have?
- [42:07]
Danny Kelly
I have and I do hate myself for doing this. Kyler Murray for the Cardinals. Fantasy point of view. Remember that rushing is a absolute cheat code. It's a two years.
- [42:20]
Bill Simmons
Two years moved from the acl. Did you fall for that one?
- [42:23]
Danny Kelly
Yeah. Look, he's another guy that. The way that I talk myself into it is he's never. He's a high floor, high ceiling guy and those are the types of players I want to go after in fantasy because it's not. He's not going to fail you. The worst average he's had in points per game last year is 17 and a half. That was last year.
- [42:39]
Danny Heifetz
That's. So he's just going to fail the real life team, but like the fantasy team.
- [42:42]
Danny Kelly
I don't care. I don't care. This is a. This is the job.
- [42:44]
Bill Simmons
He's a high ceiling, low floor. Unless you're trying to win NFL games.
- [42:47]
Danny Kelly
With them, I'm fine with that.
- [42:48]
Bill Simmons
When he's a low sailing, it's actually.
- [42:50]
Danny Kelly
Probably better if they're losing because then in the fourth quarter they're running around.
- [42:53]
Craig Horlbeck
I actually want him to be better.
- [42:55]
Danny Heifetz
He's to me. He has shades of Ben Simmons to me.
- [42:57]
Bill Simmons
Kyler Murray.
- [42:58]
Danny Kelly
Okay, can I talk about fantasy though? Maybe because that's what we're talking about here. It's important. He's the quarterback. Eight in the last four years, almost 19 points per game. Going back to 2020 when he ran a bunch, he averaged almost 10 points per game as a runner. Only the last four years it's been like five and there's been a lot of talk in this training camp that he's. It's kind of. I feel like it's a lot of these, you know, dual threat quarterbacks kind of try and. Because they know long term, I need to stick in the pocket and just like pass and be that. I think Kyler's kind of at a turning point now where he's like, actually, my running really makes me a lot better and I probably should embrace it more. And there's been talk that they're working him into the designed run game a little bit more in preseason. So I'm just. If he. If he doesn't do it, that's great. He's going to be like a top 12 quarterback. Probably. If he does run a bunch this year, he'll be top five.
- [43:47]
Bill Simmons
Listen, he makes sense. In this category is all we. We have the I'm staying away from that whole team team category. And I guess the nominees are Cleveland, New Orleans, Miami and Carolina. So.
- [44:05]
Craig Horlbeck
I vote Cleveland.
- [44:06]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [44:07]
Danny Heifetz
Cleveland.
- [44:08]
Danny Kelly
Cleveland.
- [44:09]
Danny Heifetz
Cleveland.
- [44:10]
Danny Kelly
I have Pittsburgh off.
- [44:13]
Craig Horlbeck
What are you talking about?
- [44:16]
Danny Kelly
You don't want anybody on the Buddy.
- [44:18]
Craig Horlbeck
You wouldn't even accept DK Metcalf.
- [44:20]
Danny Kelly
I mean, I love dk, but no.
- [44:21]
Bill Simmons
Okay, so I had Cleveland's the obvious pick.
- [44:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [44:25]
Bill Simmons
I do think there's a Judy. Like, he was huge last year for them. Right.
- [44:29]
Danny Heifetz
Jameis was playing. It's James, huge stats.
- [44:34]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [44:35]
Danny Heifetz
Jameis literally. Jerry Judy had yards per run. Yards per game. Whatever metric you want to use. Every game with Jameis was more than double his career average. And then when Jameis didn't play, it went right back.
- [44:47]
Bill Simmons
I had New Orleans written down for sure. Wouldn't feel great about really anything involved in that team. And I had Miami written down just because that feels like the. You'll actually spend money on some of the guys in that team and it'll feel worse.
- [45:00]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm surprised you had Carolina. Carolina is like my sneaky. Truly out of nowhere.
- [45:05]
Bill Simmons
Carolina just had a habit.
- [45:06]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Bill Simmons
Because muscle memory Hubbard was actually good last year. I like Coker.
- [45:12]
Craig Horlbeck
Who knows I'm sneaky high on Carolina this year.
- [45:14]
Bill Simmons
The only other one, the only other one I thought of was Pittsburgh, which I was glad you brought up because I don't like having DK Metcalf on my team because he's feast or famine. You never know what's going to happen with him. I wouldn't want any receiver. There's no end or running back. No way I'm taking Rodgers. I do like Friarmouth, though.
- [45:32]
Danny Kelly
But he's Gonna be in a Friarman.
- [45:33]
Danny Heifetz
With John traded for Jonathan.
- [45:35]
Bill Simmons
I like Friarman for a little bit. All right, next category. High. Fitz, you're up. Oh, no. This is a group category. It's the ar. Kumail Nanjani. Why the fuck did you bulk up like this is actually ridiculous. What are you doing, guy? And we all have Marvin Harrison, so do your rant about that.
- [45:54]
Danny Heifetz
So Marvin Harrison Jr. Obviously had a disappointing rookie year. And I say the least, to say the. I still maintain that if his name had not been Marvin Harrison Jr. If it had been, like, Dave Harrison, son of Marvin, Malik Nambris would have gone over him. But it was hard for anyone to say Marvin Harrison Jr. So he's drafted and has this point of year, and he comes in this year, and he's absolutely ripped. He's got the huge biceps. Like, he's added, what, 10 pounds of muscle, which, when you're an NFL elite athlete, that's a lot of weight to add. And I'm like, you're a wide receiver. Why are you. Why are you having big biceps? Why are you getting your arms?
- [46:26]
Craig Horlbeck
Nobody was ever like, you know What? Marvin Harrison Jr. Needs 10 more pounds of muscle. That's what he.
- [46:31]
Danny Heifetz
It's like, why is he not getting fast? I don't like armchair psychologist. I don't like that he came into year two and was like, I'm gonna look better in the mirror like that. I don't know if the muscles he's added are necessarily the most functional.
- [46:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he's like, you get off the line better. I remember David Boston way back on Arizona, just got really jacked, but he had a couple years where he was one of the eight or nine best fantasy receivers, and then he just got too big.
- [46:56]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [46:56]
Bill Simmons
And it was like his career was over.
- [46:58]
Craig Horlbeck
It's like a desperation move. It's like getting out of a breakup and you just, like, get ripped.
- [47:01]
Danny Kelly
Maybe that was like, he was disappointed with his rookie year. He just. He's just.
- [47:05]
Craig Horlbeck
What is that? Is that for a movie? What is that for? Why does he look like that?
- [47:08]
Bill Simmons
I mean, he's my age.
- [47:09]
Danny Kelly
He looks for a movie.
- [47:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Have you seen what Sasha Baron?
- [47:11]
Danny Heifetz
No. Is he, like, ripped down?
- [47:12]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, my God.
- [47:13]
Danny Heifetz
He's a barricade.
- [47:15]
Bill Simmons
Shaved body.
- [47:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, he looks.
- [47:17]
Bill Simmons
That would have been a good face punishment. You have to wear the Borat bathing suit.
- [47:21]
Danny Kelly
Oh, my God. I have a question. I thought about this.
- [47:25]
Danny Heifetz
It's like a Mac from It's Always Sunny. It's getting ripped.
- [47:27]
Danny Kelly
Can you think of a single time, any skill position Where a guy got bigger over the off season, that was a good thing. I'm sure it happened. But I really honestly can't think of one.
- [47:40]
Danny Heifetz
It's way more in the direction of older guys losing weight. And then they're trying to keep your knees.
- [47:48]
Bill Simmons
Trying to think of like a tight end maybe.
- [47:49]
Craig Horlbeck
LeBron has lost weight throughout his career. Right.
- [47:51]
Danny Heifetz
That's all Older athletes have to cut muscle eventually for your joints.
- [47:55]
Danny Kelly
But you're ranking up.
- [47:57]
Bill Simmons
That's what I do have to get muscle.
- [47:58]
Danny Heifetz
He's young enough. Like, you do have to get larger. Like, you do grow into your frame. But I just feel like frankly, maybe. I mean, here I am criticizing an NFL athlete, but I'm just like. I just kind of think too ripped. Yeah, I know. Just Cheeto dust all over me. But I'm just kind of like. You know what? I just think he was. He read all the comments and he was kind of embarrassed that he had a bad year and everyone else. He was like the sixth best rookie receiver in his class. And I think he was embarrassed, so he got really ripped.
- [48:19]
Bill Simmons
Give us your shameless homer pick.
- [48:23]
Danny Heifetz
So what is this category? Do you want me to talk about?
- [48:24]
Bill Simmons
Malik Nas one Giant that you're the most.
- [48:26]
Craig Horlbeck
Is it like a diamond in the rough or is it like the best player on the team?
- [48:30]
Bill Simmons
Just a guy that is on your team. That is being discussed as a fantasy guy anyway. But you're even higher on him than you should be just because he's on your team.
- [48:38]
Danny Heifetz
So Neighbors is the obvious pick. I will just reiterate that Malik Nabors really was leaned on by the Giants more to start his career last year than anyone.
- [48:45]
Bill Simmons
And the more fun pick would be Jax and Dart.
- [48:47]
Danny Heifetz
Exactly. So Neighbors is easy.
- [48:49]
Bill Simmons
Week six dart.
- [48:50]
Danny Heifetz
I think you. You don't have to hold Dart the whole year because he's not going to play for two months. I will say Cam Scatter.
- [48:55]
Bill Simmons
Boo.
- [48:55]
Danny Heifetz
Cam Scataboo, the running back. I am in love with him. He just came back to practice today.
- [48:58]
Bill Simmons
I wanted him on the pass.
- [48:59]
Danny Heifetz
Scataboo is the. I freaked out when they took him in the fourth round. And Scataboo, he was.
- [49:03]
Danny Kelly
You were always on him too. You liked him in the draft.
- [49:06]
Danny Heifetz
Yes. And he. I think he was the only player to have like 1600 rushing yards and 500 receiving a season since McCaffrey. And I just. Frankly, he's slow and we're by. I mean, it's just overlapping stuff of.
- [49:16]
Bill Simmons
Feels like a cult hero.
- [49:18]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, it's like a white running back which is funny.
- [49:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Everyone's like, well, he's slow and he's not that athletic. I don't care. He's good.
- [49:24]
Danny Heifetz
I am so convinced that he has. And also the funny thing about him is because he's so big, he has a total 3 down skill set, which is hilarious because he's not fast but he can block and he's a really good receiver. So I am really convinced that. Scout boo. And I also think because he had this hamstring injury zero rookie hype, he would have shot up.
- [49:41]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, he basically missed all the training camp.
- [49:42]
Danny Heifetz
He missed a lot. But like Tyrone Tracy in a weird way, even though he was a receiver in college, I kind of think that's the empty calorie touches where I actually think Scatterboo could get goal line because he's way larger and he can do passing work, so I can't.
- [49:52]
Bill Simmons
Transformative Giants draft.
- [49:53]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [49:54]
Danny Heifetz
Yes. Oh, yeah.
- [49:55]
Bill Simmons
Really Seemed like a special one, dude.
- [49:56]
Danny Heifetz
Abdul Carter. Don't even get me started. He is.
- [49:59]
Bill Simmons
Every Giants fan in my life is just like has to be hosed down about Abdul Carter.
- [50:02]
Danny Heifetz
He is.
- [50:03]
Danny Kelly
Dude.
- [50:03]
Danny Heifetz
When they put him over the guard like the Cowboys do with Michael Parsons against the Bills, unbelievable.
- [50:07]
Bill Simmons
But we knew it the whole time. That's what like the Joe Milton game is just so devastating. But then the Pats ended up. I'll do my shameless homer pick ahead of everybody else. The Trayvon Henderson, like, yeah.
- [50:17]
Danny Heifetz
Oh yeah.
- [50:18]
Bill Simmons
I was looking at the Jameer Gibbs rookie numbers where he was like 900 yards rushing and I don't know, 600 yards receiving. And it felt like a lot. It felt impactful. If Henderson plays 17 games, there's no way he's not doing better than Jermaine Gibbs rookie season. They're just. He has this home run receiving power that I don't even think Gibbs has. Like, I was looking up Gibbs's biggest receiving, like explosion thing. Henderson's going to do it multiple times. And if you have kickoff returns in your draft that tied to the players, which some drafts do, and they change these kickoff rules and I think he's going to be one of the biggest weapons in the league. I just think he's. It was honestly a miracle that he felt it. The Browns had 36 and took the other Ohio State running backs, that's going.
- [51:02]
Danny Heifetz
To be an awesome.
- [51:02]
Bill Simmons
And it was like a miracle. It made up for the Abdul Carter thing.
- [51:05]
Danny Heifetz
No, it's just. It literally did. It's karma for when you guys took the Patriots, took Sony Michelle over Nick Chubb.
- [51:11]
Bill Simmons
When they came out of Georgia, seesawed the other way. Yeah, but so we get Will Campbell before who he's not Abdul Carter, but he is, you know, he'll be a good left tackle for us. And then Henderson, who, if he had gone 12 to the Chargers, people would be like, should he be RB5?
- [51:26]
Craig Horlbeck
Right.
- [51:26]
Bill Simmons
They'd be just going, what's Harbaugh? Can he get to 2000 all purpose yards? And on the Pats, he's kind of buried, but he's been the story of camp. That's all people talk about covering the Pats.
- [51:35]
Danny Kelly
I feel like it's every day, every.
- [51:36]
Craig Horlbeck
Day he does a 100 yard touchdown.
- [51:39]
Danny Heifetz
The thing with Henderson, we were just talking about it. We recorded our show for the Fantasy show earlier today. And I was saying, I think the thing with Trayvon and about why I think he'll have a larger impact rookie year than most rookies is just I think the passing game's harder because frankly, they don't want to trust. At the end of the day, a rookie's still an intern. And like, they don't want to trust the $100 million quarterback with, like, being protected by the guy. But he's 21 years old, and I think Henderson is a function of nil because they paid him a lot of money to go back to Ohio State. He wanted to win a championship. And so I think frankly, he's just.
- [52:04]
Danny Kelly
We.
- [52:04]
Danny Heifetz
It's a new era now where people as a running back as talented as Travan Henderson would have gotten as much experience on the team. And so I think while that might be larger, you know, it's more of tread on tires, so to speak, for, like, his contract in terms of a rookie or impact, he's just more experienced than most people this talented are entering his season.
- [52:22]
Bill Simmons
The fact that he can block like he does because they go nuts about how he blocks.
- [52:26]
Danny Heifetz
Hardest thing for rookies to learn.
- [52:27]
Bill Simmons
So he's out there and it's like, oh, it's a passing down. He's out there. It's like, maybe it's not, or maybe it is, or maybe they'll run and you're gonna have to defend the whole field with him. He's a godsend. Like, McDaniels is talking about, like, Vereen and James White, all these dudes they had in this spot. And he's like, this guy's like all of those dudes on stairs.
- [52:43]
Craig Horlbeck
He's way better than them.
- [52:45]
Danny Heifetz
He's gonna surpass Ramandra quickly. And I entered the season thinking that would not happen. But he's clearly.
- [52:50]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm gonna. All my friends are gonna bid me up on him, and it's gonna. I'm just gonna be like, what are you, 28?
- [52:56]
Danny Heifetz
2830.
- [52:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Who do you have for Seattle?
- [52:59]
Danny Kelly
I'm shameless Homer. About Kenneth Walker. I absolutely love that guy. I think he's. I stand by this. I think he's one of the best pure runners in the league going back the last few years. I mean, he make guys miss break tackles, you know, just obliterate angles in the open field. He's actually proven to be a pretty good pass catcher. Last year he had 46 catches, which was 12th most among running backs. And that was only in.
- [53:21]
Bill Simmons
Why can't he play five straight games?
- [53:23]
Danny Kelly
Well, that's the problem.
- [53:24]
Danny Heifetz
Too busy suplexing defenders.
- [53:26]
Danny Kelly
He's too elusive, right?
- [53:28]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he's a red flag guy.
- [53:30]
Danny Heifetz
Can't find him for the kids.
- [53:31]
Danny Kelly
Well, this is why it's.
- [53:32]
Danny Heifetz
I'm shameless.
- [53:33]
Danny Kelly
I'm shameless about it.
- [53:33]
Craig Horlbeck
He's one of those guys where if it was just like. If you just watched like silhouettes of players running, you didn't know who that was. If somebody like, he kind of looks like Saquon Barkley in moments. Yeah, he really has.
- [53:41]
Bill Simmons
No, he's awesome. He was great.
- [53:43]
Danny Heifetz
Saquon with a touch of Isaiah Pacheco.
- [53:45]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. A little bit angry run.
- [53:48]
Danny Kelly
He has a weird running, like, gait.
- [53:49]
Craig Horlbeck
He, like runs like a crab. He runs sideways.
- [53:51]
Bill Simmons
Do you have a shameless Steelers pick?
- [53:53]
Craig Horlbeck
To be honest, no, I don't.
- [53:56]
Danny Kelly
You got mad at me for avoiding the Steelers.
- [54:00]
Craig Horlbeck
Boswell. There's nobody that I'm like, this guy's gonna crush. I mean, like, I can give you, like, a player I think is kind of under the radar. I don't. I'm not saying at all he'll be fantasy relevant. But their third round pick last year, Roman Wilson, the receiver out of Michigan, I do think is good. He played five snaps last year. He was hurt all year.
- [54:15]
Danny Kelly
Five.
- [54:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Literally five. Rogers is talking him up. He won the natty with Michigan. He had 12 touchdowns that year. Like, he's like very gritty, dirty work blocking guy. Apparently. He's been great in camp. He's like that slot receiver. That is exactly what the Steelers need. Rogers has seemed to like him. I do think there's a chance that in like a month or two, we're.
- [54:31]
Danny Kelly
Like, oh, Roman Wilson, you make some manufactured touches.
- [54:34]
Bill Simmons
That was sad. I don't have a shameless homer pick.
- [54:39]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't.
- [54:39]
Bill Simmons
But here's a guy who had five snaps last year that I'm mildly excited about. Yeah, we'll take a break and then coming back with the veal chop guy. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. There's a lot of misconceptions around mental health, especially if you're a guy. But you shouldn't be ashamed to seek help when you need it. Trust me, everyone needs help sometimes. A great way to get the support you need is BetterHelp. They can match you with the right therapist in an easy, comfortable, judgment free way. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com billsimmons to get 10% off your first month. That is betterhelp.com billsimmons this episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably gonna see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to viori.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V-U-O-R-I.com Simmons. Enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. All right, this is a special category. Danny's gonna lead us off. It's my veal chop guy. The veal chop which we argued about last year in this podcast. It's a feast or famine order.
- [56:05]
Craig Horlbeck
I still have yet to have a veal chop.
- [56:06]
Bill Simmons
It's expensive. It might be great. It might be terrible. You just don't know David Chang. We did this category last year and he was so upset that the veal chop was besmirched. He thought it was an absolutely insane take. That I continue to be the worst food take person.
- [56:21]
Danny Heifetz
Did he chops. Dave Chang walks in and they're like, better not fuck up.
- [56:25]
Bill Simmons
That's what I said. This is like. This is like, you know, he's snobby in general with this food. It's not like he's so.
- [56:32]
Craig Horlbeck
He thinks all veal chops are good.
- [56:34]
Bill Simmons
He can he. His theory is all veal chops bring something to the table.
- [56:38]
Craig Horlbeck
Okay.
- [56:40]
Bill Simmons
Anyway, who do you have for your veal chop?
- [56:43]
Danny Kelly
It definitely helps.
- [56:44]
Danny Heifetz
Sounds like participation trophy for veal chops.
- [56:46]
Bill Simmons
Who do you have for your veal chop guy, Danny.
- [56:48]
Danny Kelly
Jameson Williams of the Lions.
- [56:50]
Bill Simmons
Good year last year.
- [56:51]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, he obviously, the first two years in the league was all over the place. He was injured at first, then he got suspended for gambling, and then he was, I think, just kind of knucklehead. They didn't. They didn't trust him right away, so he was playing off and on. But every time he gets on the field, you're like, this is the fastest guy in the league.
- [57:07]
Craig Horlbeck
It never works out. Like, there's been a lot of these guys, and usually they're out of the league in, like, three years. He was right on the cusp of, like, he literally might be out of the league.
- [57:14]
Bill Simmons
That's what we had with Tyquan Thornton, who the Chiefs are trying to save right now. He's like four, two speed.
- [57:18]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, the Chiefs are just like kind of your last stop on the way out.
- [57:21]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, totally, totally.
- [57:23]
Bill Simmons
Tire kick.
- [57:24]
Danny Kelly
But JMO, he had over 1,000 yards last year. To me, he's just the perfect example of there'll be one game where he has 200 yards and three touchdowns, and then he'll have like a catch the next week, and you're kind of, you know, whack a mole trying to figure out when to play him. But I. I truly believe he's one of the most talented receivers in the NFL. It's just a matter of he is.
- [57:43]
Bill Simmons
Open by five yards when he's on a. On a deep pass. Like, you don't even see the defender.
- [57:47]
Craig Horlbeck
Behind him the first round three years ago.
- [57:49]
Bill Simmons
That's one of the better fantasy questions from last year of who had more receiving yards. T. Higgins or Jameson Williams. Everyone would have said T. Higgins. I like that one. I mean, it felt like he was getting better and better as the year was going along. Who do you have for your veal chop guy?
- [58:06]
Craig Horlbeck
It's gotta be Devon Hn.
- [58:07]
Bill Simmons
Oh, we're just running it back.
- [58:08]
Craig Horlbeck
It has to be.
- [58:09]
Bill Simmons
He hurt his injury for the most part. It was pretty good experience with him last year. Right.
- [58:13]
Craig Horlbeck
When Tua played, he was a top two running back. He was basically Saquon. When Tua didn't play, he was irrelevant and borderline not spot.
- [58:20]
Danny Heifetz
Alexander Madison had more points per game than Hn when Tua was out.
- [58:24]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, and so it's like, I mean, he hurt his calf, and right now he's got a hurt calf, which is like the biggest red flag for speed.
- [58:30]
Danny Kelly
Guys.
- [58:31]
Craig Horlbeck
The calf is just. That's if we did a calf. The Achilles, the soft tissue injuries, you.
- [58:35]
Bill Simmons
Want to see California, Especially after this NBA season. I now treat the calf injury like it's. It's.
- [58:39]
Craig Horlbeck
It's like a heart attack. Yeah. It's a basic.
- [58:42]
Bill Simmons
It's like, I'd rather have a heart diagnosis. Oh, my God. It's a calf injury. Jesus.
- [58:46]
Craig Horlbeck
So I don't know. I don't know where I stand with Achan. I honestly think I'm probably going to avoid him. I was kind of into him, and until the calf injury came around, and now I'm honest.
- [58:55]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, I'm kind of out on him, too.
- [58:57]
Danny Heifetz
The way Craig nailed it, he said, achan's a parlay. You're parlaying that. Devon Hn's calf is okay with TUA plays football.
- [59:03]
Bill Simmons
Good luck. I have a great build Chop guy. I'm really excited about it. I'm excited to talk about him with the three of you. Braylon Allen.
- [59:11]
Danny Heifetz
Wow.
- [59:12]
Bill Simmons
So I had Breece hall on both teams last year.
- [59:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Me too.
- [59:17]
Bill Simmons
He just put his poop in a doggy bag and whipped it at me for four months.
- [59:23]
Danny Kelly
Vivid. Yeah.
- [59:25]
Bill Simmons
And every time Braylon Allen came in for him, you have that sinking feeling as a fantasy football person, you're 100% right. The guy behind your guy comes in and you're like, fuck, that guy's better.
- [59:37]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [59:38]
Craig Horlbeck
I knew it in my soul.
- [59:39]
Bill Simmons
You just know in your soul, like, this guy's better.
- [59:41]
Craig Horlbeck
He just is.
- [59:42]
Bill Simmons
Guys just hits the hole far. He seems stronger. Like, God damn it. I thought. I just really got this wrong. I just think he's gonna end up being the jets starter and having a big season. He's. He's like 19 years old. I don't even know.
- [59:55]
Danny Kelly
He was the youngest drafted player ever. He wasn't he?
- [59:59]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he was the youngest drafted player, I think, ever. And then, I mean, I don't know about the 30s when there was like, World War, like, you know, World War I, World War II gaps or whatever. But, like, the. He had his freshman year at Wisconsin. He was 17 years old. He had.
- [60:11]
Bill Simmons
This is.
- [60:12]
Danny Heifetz
The meme is people always talk about this, but, like, he had, like, 1300 yards at Wisconsin in a very similar scheme. But overall, to your point, the person who's going to notice this immediately is Aaron Glenn, the coach of the Jets.
- [60:22]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [60:23]
Danny Heifetz
He's going. I think him.
- [60:24]
Bill Simmons
It's the kind of team he wants to have. I want to run the ball. I want to pound the ball. The case for the jets to go nine and eight and get a seven seed, which I will not make, but there will be A terrible seven seed in the aft. It's just where it's going to happen. But the cases. Braylon Allen is actually like, incredible.
- [60:38]
Danny Heifetz
The case. And they're lying. And the other point, the jets have a sneaky, really good offensive line. I mean, you know, well, unless.
- [60:43]
Bill Simmons
Unless you watch the memo footage last weekend.
- [60:46]
Danny Kelly
Was he not good? Oh, no.
- [60:47]
Danny Heifetz
Good.
- [60:47]
Bill Simmons
In theory, the memo footage was bad footage.
- [60:52]
Danny Heifetz
I think he called it footage.
- [60:56]
Craig Horlbeck
Cruder films.
- [60:59]
Bill Simmons
Fan text thread. As we were exalting that we have Campbell in that memo and somebody was like, look how slow his hands are. Slow hands. Can't get his hands up fast enough. It's like, oh, slow hands. But anyway, Allan, that's my guy.
- [61:13]
Danny Kelly
I am stubbornly, I'm very stubbornly staying on Bree hall island and I don't.
- [61:18]
Craig Horlbeck
Feel good about it. I'll sell you my cop.
- [61:19]
Danny Kelly
I don't feel good about it anymore.
- [61:20]
Danny Heifetz
As you can imagine. We get mad at each other. They. One of them is mad at me.
- [61:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [61:25]
Danny Heifetz
The only time I've seen them, like, actually really angry at each other was when he bespurched Breeze Hall. It's the only thing I've seen him do to get him.
- [61:32]
Bill Simmons
It's a weird one. He seemed like just a slam dunk.
- [61:35]
Craig Horlbeck
He's not.
- [61:37]
Bill Simmons
Two years ago, it seemed like he was a slam dunk. Pay $50 for this guy in a fanny draft. Feel great about it, but never had.
- [61:42]
Craig Horlbeck
A thousand yards in a year.
- [61:44]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [61:44]
Danny Kelly
Who's your average? Less than like 14.
- [61:47]
Danny Heifetz
I just. I can't get over the fact HN literally is on par with Gibbs, Bijan and Saquon when Tua plays. And then literally, literally, he's there with Alexander Madison and post injury Nick Chubb when Tua doesn't play. And I can't think of a player that would be more the spirit of this thing of Boomer feast or famine.
- [62:03]
Bill Simmons
Than they say Braylon Allen's in the 20s somewhere, right? 25. No lower.
- [62:09]
Craig Horlbeck
For sure.
- [62:10]
Bill Simmons
You think by the time this season. What if he has starting job way lower.
- [62:13]
Craig Horlbeck
I mean, if he had the starting job, but I don't think he's going to. And I think he'll be lower.
- [62:16]
Danny Heifetz
Way lower. If Breeze gets traded, you can get him. There's a world where if you didn't have this podcast and everyone in the league wasn't listening, you might haven't won since 07.
- [62:25]
Bill Simmons
So I'd probably like zag again.
- [62:27]
Craig Horlbeck
I'll tell you right now, you can.
- [62:28]
Danny Heifetz
Probably get him for $2.
- [62:29]
Craig Horlbeck
He's the running back. 47.
- [62:30]
Danny Heifetz
You can get him for $2.
- [62:31]
Craig Horlbeck
That's where he's going in.
- [62:32]
Bill Simmons
Really?
- [62:33]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [62:33]
Danny Heifetz
You can get him for $2. I don't think he's not even a.
- [62:36]
Bill Simmons
He's not even a veal chop guy. He's like a freaking appetizer. He's like the scallops with the bacon. Yeah. All right. DK your. I wouldn't take him even if he was free guy. AKA the DND list. The list you don't want to be on. I have three guys on mine this year.
- [62:55]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, Mine's kind of a team thing. I'm staying away from the Cowboys backfield. So. Javante.
- [63:02]
Bill Simmons
Just blind stay away.
- [63:03]
Danny Kelly
You don't want one person even if they're. I mean, I guess I would take Jaden Blue really late for a dollar or whatever, but I just am avoiding that. I just don't have any faith that they're going to run the ball well or often. And I think they're going to be a pass heavy team. I'm just staying away from that.
- [63:19]
Bill Simmons
What do you have, Craig?
- [63:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Garrett Wilson. I'm good.
- [63:22]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [63:22]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't want anybody that's. Justin Fields is throwing passes too. Rogers had the third most passes in the league last year. Garrett Wilson was the wide receiver 23. Now he's getting drafted as the wide receiver 15. How he's getting better with Justin Fields throwing the ball like 18 times a game. I don't get it all.
- [63:38]
Bill Simmons
Being double teamed.
- [63:39]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, don't get it all.
- [63:40]
Bill Simmons
I like that one. I have with apologies to DK Metcalf and Kyle Pitts. Trevor Lawrence, really literally. He was one of my big guys last year. Like big Year coming.
- [63:53]
Danny Heifetz
I can tell.
- [63:55]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. He's also not good. He's not good at football.
- [63:58]
Craig Horlbeck
You're not willing to wait for the Liam Cohen?
- [64:00]
Bill Simmons
I'm not willing to wait on anything. I don't think he's accurate. I think he throws hospital balls left and right. If I was Brian Thomas Jr's family, I'd be terrified every game. I don't. I don't think he's a smart quarterback. I think he does dumb shit, especially in inside the 20. Like I forgot until I went through my notes how fucking stupid the Jaguars were last year where they were like, oh, and four. And we were like, how is this team own four? I don't. I just don't think that goes away. I don't think he has it and I think he's a complete stay away. I think for $0.
- [64:30]
Danny Heifetz
I think the literal recent history of the NFL would suggest that. I think giving up on quarterbacks who played for horrible organizations like Jacksonville is just a mistake. Like you talk about. They had to out Liam Cohen, had to oust the general, the GM of the Jags, Trent Balky like he was like Littlefinger or Rasputin or something because that's the organization. But if you just look at is.
- [64:49]
Bill Simmons
This a Trevor Lawrence defense? Because it feels like you're making listen to our pod.
- [64:52]
Danny Heifetz
No, it's just Baker. I'm just saying Baker Mayfield was salary dumped by the Carolina Panthers and He's now a $40 million a year player. A Geno Smith was a backup for eight years and then went and now is like a good above average starting quarterback. Bryce Young was given up on benched by the Panthers and then two weeks later outplayed CG Stroud the rest of the season. I mean, if you just look around and around.
- [65:11]
Bill Simmons
Cerise made the key point about about Bryce Young yesterday on the Ringer NFL show. It's like his stats are basically the same as Anthony Richardson. Anthony Richardson is younger and everybody's like Bryce Young looking good, but he looked no Anthony Richardson, Bryce Young, he played two good games. Come on. Everyone needs to settle down on Bryce Young.
- [65:27]
Danny Heifetz
He almost beat the Eagles. I'm just saying that like, like these.
- [65:30]
Bill Simmons
Garbage time like everyone was n taking them seriously because they were so terrible. I'm dubious, but you like in Jigba.
- [65:36]
Danny Heifetz
For the Seahawks and it's like Sam Donald's the quarterback of the Seahawks. It's like he's been given up on by like four or five teams. I guess I'm just saying that 14.
- [65:42]
Bill Simmons
And three last year.
- [65:43]
Danny Heifetz
I know, but that's my point. The jets gave up on him and the Panthers gave up on him.
- [65:48]
Bill Simmons
You haven't followed football for long enough because you're way younger than I am. I've watched this happen too many times. When these people get infected by being on bad teams for too many years, that's it. It's like gangrene. Your leg falls off. That's what it is.
- [66:00]
Danny Heifetz
But then how did Sam Darnold win 14 games last year?
- [66:03]
Bill Simmons
Well, Sam Darnold. How many teams was he on? He bounced around.
- [66:06]
Danny Heifetz
He had to go to the Niners and be rehabilitated.
- [66:09]
Bill Simmons
I think he should leave Jacksonville before anything good happens for him. There's too much baggage.
- [66:13]
Danny Heifetz
He needs to cut his hair. I will bet on the Jags to like win the Super Bowl. When jag he just gets a buzz cut.
- [66:18]
Bill Simmons
How many times you watch Trevor Lawrence do something stupid and then cuts him on the sideline and takes his helmet off and he's like, like, I just can't do it again.
- [66:27]
Danny Heifetz
I just think coaching Kevin o'. Connell.
- [66:29]
Bill Simmons
So let's cheer someone in a Super.
- [66:30]
Danny Heifetz
Bowl and then was fired with the same quarterback because he couldn't make it happen.
- [66:33]
Bill Simmons
Liam Cohen, like, had one good year with Baker Mayfield. Everyone's like, ah, Ben Johnson 2.0. Like, are we sure he's even going to be a good coach? And what makes us think Jacksonville is competent anyway? They just traded their entire draft for Travis Hunter.
- [66:47]
Danny Heifetz
How. What exact week did Trevor Lawrence fail? You lost your season that you feel this way.
- [66:50]
Bill Simmons
How about all the weeks every single week? It was 2 and 8 last year.
- [66:54]
Danny Kelly
There's plenty of hate in his heart right now. I feel like. Yeah.
- [66:57]
Bill Simmons
What is his career record? Oh, it's 22 and 38.
- [67:01]
Danny Heifetz
It's better than I thought, actually.
- [67:03]
Bill Simmons
I just don't get it. The last two years. Last two years, 32 touchdowns, 21 picks in a league where everybody is like, 30 touchdowns, eight picks. I'm out.
- [67:13]
Danny Kelly
He's making some good points.
- [67:15]
Bill Simmons
I'm out. I'm sorry. I just feel really passionate about this. I don't get it. It's just like the Justin Herbert thing where he sucked in the playoffs last year and now everyone just forgot nine months later. It's like, Justin Herbert won the eight best quarterbacks in the league. Is he. Because we watched him stink in the playoffs.
- [67:33]
Danny Heifetz
But the through line of those is. Greg Roman, who's the coordinator of the Chargers, just has never designed a modern passing offense. And like, like 2019 with Lamar.
- [67:40]
Bill Simmons
Another excuse maker for Herbert.
- [67:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, I will defend Herbert as well.
- [67:43]
Danny Heifetz
I'm just saying, like, like, we know Scientologist. I. I just. I'm not saying they're definitely going to be good. I'm just saying that I don't. A quarter we're at. A quarter of the league is quarterbacked by highly drafted guys whose first organizations failed them. And it's really clear that, like, okay, some guys just needed good, better coaching or maybe 25, 26. Josh Allen is someone you forget. Josh Allen fucking sucked in his first two seasons and then was awesome in.
- [68:09]
Bill Simmons
Year three, his second season.
- [68:10]
Craig Horlbeck
No, he was terrible his rookie year.
- [68:12]
Danny Heifetz
Terrible. His rookie year. The Texans playoff game Josh Allen played his second season was the worst game.
- [68:16]
Bill Simmons
I've ever seen a quarterback.
- [68:17]
Danny Heifetz
That was when he was lateraling.
- [68:19]
Bill Simmons
It's like, you know, it must look like Justin Herbert.
- [68:21]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. You always say Herbert hasn't won the playoffs. Justin Herbert. The Week 18 game versus the Raiders that Brandon Staley blew because they tied the game.
- [68:28]
Craig Horlbeck
One of the best games I've seen a quarterback play.
- [68:30]
Danny Heifetz
Maybe it's not playoffs, but if they win the game, they make the playoffs and they lose, they lit up.
- [68:34]
Bill Simmons
Brandon. He lit up. Who did he let up?
- [68:37]
Craig Horlbeck
The Raiders.
- [68:37]
Danny Heifetz
Okay. But it was. He had 4th and 2 4th and 15s, 2 4th and 10s.
- [68:41]
Bill Simmons
Janitor is there. Interim head coach.
- [68:45]
Craig Horlbeck
Look, I think, like, if you can come around on Sam Darnold now on his, like, ninth team on Seattle, and you're like, I don't know Sam Darnold.
- [68:53]
Bill Simmons
I only came around because he did it. He went 14 and three.
- [68:56]
Danny Heifetz
He had really good. But that's my point, though. Kevin OConnell. Kevin OConnells himself was the one. And they're like, how did he do it? And people are like, oh, you did it. He's like, no. Organizations fail quarterbacks more than quarterbacks fail organizations.
- [69:07]
Bill Simmons
Okay, well, year five, Trevor Lawrence, they have one of the five worst offensive lines in the league. Right, Danny?
- [69:13]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [69:13]
Bill Simmons
Bottom five, probably. Yeah, we've already seen that. When he's pressured, it gets a little dicey.
- [69:19]
Craig Horlbeck
I just want to wait one more year. If it doesn't work with Cohen, I.
- [69:21]
Danny Heifetz
Would like to see. Yeah, exactly.
- [69:23]
Bill Simmons
I wish you guys a lot of luck.
- [69:25]
Craig Horlbeck
The Herbert one surprises me.
- [69:27]
Bill Simmons
His coaching hurt. Well, it's like, score 14 points against a good defense he played.
- [69:32]
Craig Horlbeck
The Texans are a good defense. Sam Darnold got eviscerated in the past.
- [69:36]
Bill Simmons
I'm not going to defend Sam Donald. He fell apart or, like, I don't.
- [69:39]
Craig Horlbeck
Know, Dak Prescott or something like that. It's like, also Dak Prescott over Justin Herbert. What the fuck is Dak Prescott?
- [69:43]
Bill Simmons
Did everybody take a D and D list guy? I just.
- [69:46]
Danny Heifetz
My last.
- [69:47]
Danny Kelly
Just.
- [69:47]
Danny Heifetz
Joe. Joe Mixon is. His foot's messed up. I wouldn't draft Joe Mixon.
- [69:50]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that's.
- [69:51]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, just Joe Mixon's foot. They're not being honest about it. I don't even know he's gonna play.
- [69:54]
Bill Simmons
Would you. So you. You guys would take pits?
- [69:57]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. Cause he'll be so cheap.
- [69:58]
Danny Heifetz
He's the cheapest he's ever been.
- [70:00]
Bill Simmons
He's like, zero dollars for me.
- [70:03]
Danny Heifetz
No, he's. I'm doing it.
- [70:05]
Bill Simmons
Oh, this is a fun. It's a group category. Our Aaron Brooks. Please don't ever watch him. Just check the box score after the game, guy. It's Justin Fields. Just don't watch one snap. Literally, don't watch One snap, tank the points. He'll be like in the 20s every game.
- [70:18]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [70:18]
Bill Simmons
Just don't watch any of the snaps.
- [70:20]
Danny Heifetz
Don't watch the footage as the Blake.
- [70:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Bortles was that way Tim Tebow had that year where he had like one point before the fourth quarter and then scored 18 every fourth. And it's a tough existence in fantasy when you have a guy like that, but you can squeeze out 20 points.
- [70:34]
Bill Simmons
Craig, who is. This is one of our best categories from last year. That 2024 booty call isn't happening again. Guy, the guy who kind of late at night in the fantasy season last year, all of a sudden he was getting points for you, but you don't know if it's a real thing or not.
- [70:51]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, this is funny because we just had a long conversation that he was involved in. Sam Darnold.
- [70:56]
Bill Simmons
I Booty call guy.
- [70:57]
Danny Kelly
I forgot. 35 touchdown.
- [70:58]
Craig Horlbeck
Natasha Henstridge and Species. I'm like, it only works there. Nowhere else. You know, I'm like in that movie. Great. The Kevin o' Connell system. Awesome. Now he's in Seattle. I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know.
- [71:12]
Bill Simmons
I don't want to change that category to the Natasha Anderson species.
- [71:15]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, like, for sure.
- [71:19]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [71:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Sam Darnold anywhere else? Not for me. Sam Donald on his own. Not for me.
- [71:24]
Bill Simmons
I was split for mine between John Usmith. I still don't understand that season he had last year.
- [71:29]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, that's a good one.
- [71:31]
Danny Heifetz
Tyreek Hill quit on the team.
- [71:32]
Bill Simmons
How did that Chuba Hubbard thing happen where all of a sudden he was like, one of like, the six best running backs?
- [71:38]
Danny Heifetz
He had all of it.
- [71:38]
Danny Kelly
He had all of it. He had all of the.
- [71:40]
Bill Simmons
Okay, so that's. So I'm gonna go Johnny Smith because, yeah, Hubbard was like winning people leads.
- [71:46]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [71:46]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And I just wonder if that happened.
- [71:48]
Danny Heifetz
It's also because it may have been a bad move, if you want to say it, but they overpaid those guards. So the Carolina has a weirdly competent offensive line, and so it's a good line. And Shuba, you have to be good to survive three regimes. He was drafted by Matt Rule. Really? Matt Rule's wife.
- [72:00]
Danny Kelly
She's like, I like this guy.
- [72:01]
Bill Simmons
Let's say I looked at his game log and it's like, pretty. Like, every three would have 150 yards.
- [72:07]
Danny Kelly
Well, he would. Yeah. He was getting like 85% of the snaps for that team.
- [72:09]
Danny Heifetz
It's a. It's a good line. He's good. Yeah.
- [72:11]
Bill Simmons
So I'll Go John. Who do you have?
- [72:13]
Danny Heifetz
John is better than I, I think, unfortunately. Terry McLaurin for Washington. I feel like a buzzkill, but I mean, Terry McLaurin tied the most touchdowns in the history of the team. But I mean he only had like under 1100 yards. But now Debo's there. And also every touchdown Terry had looked like other than, of course, when they played the Giants, everything looked like the hardest catcher.
- [72:30]
Danny Kelly
It was like a mirror miracle.
- [72:31]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, it was like a miracle.
- [72:32]
Bill Simmons
He's sneaky, like 31 years old.
- [72:34]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. The contract. Terry's a great guy. He's easy to root for. But I just think where you're drafting him, it's like his ceiling and a realistic.
- [72:39]
Bill Simmons
Should we do an ESPN segment here?
- [72:40]
Danny Kelly
Oh, yeah.
- [72:42]
Bill Simmons
You got to pay him. You got to pay Terry McLaurin. You got to pay him.
- [72:47]
Danny Kelly
I actually do think they need to pay him.
- [72:51]
Bill Simmons
If they want to win 10 games, they might need to pay him. Everybody had a booty call guy.
- [72:58]
Danny Kelly
I got one.
- [72:58]
Bill Simmons
Who's yours?
- [72:59]
Danny Kelly
James Cook for the Bills. I love James Cook, actually. And I think there is a small chance that he is just in that tier of like Alvin Camaro where he's just way too. He's so efficient and he just keeps doing it every year. It shocks you every year. But last year he had 16 touchdowns rushing. The last, the two years before that, two and two. And if you look at his other underlying metrics, he is not a normal elite quarterback. He had. He was 28th in touches per game, 38th in snap rate, 24th in rush rate in terms of how many carries he was getting relative to the rest of team. Like barely just over half of the goal go opportunities were his. I think it was just like lightning in a bottle. He got a. He got the most goal line carries, I think in the NFL or red inside the 5 yard carries in the NFL last year. I don't know if that's going to happen again. Josh Allen's going to steal some of those. Maybe Ray Davis steals some of them. His underlying metrics just don't match the production. He would have to be one of the most efficient running backs in the NFL again in a second year. And I don't know if he can do that. And also he wasn't really used in the passing game that much. So I don't know the James Cook. He just feels like that was one. That was a weird season.
- [74:08]
Bill Simmons
New contract. Yeah, I really liked him second half of the year. I thought he was awesome.
- [74:13]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [74:13]
Bill Simmons
So I don't know if That I don't know what to think on this one.
- [74:16]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [74:16]
Bill Simmons
There's some red flags, but I could also see him being one of the five best guys.
- [74:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, right.
- [74:20]
Danny Kelly
He could be like Kamara. I think, like, it's possible, but the metrics, the math, it doesn't. It's not mathing.
- [74:28]
Bill Simmons
All right, next category is my look. Somebody's got to get points in that team. Guy. For me, it's Calvin Ridley.
- [74:34]
Craig Horlbeck
Me, too.
- [74:35]
Danny Heifetz
Calvin Ridley, too.
- [74:36]
Bill Simmons
Oh, you have him, too?
- [74:37]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. He's one of my favorite players this year.
- [74:39]
Bill Simmons
Here's the thing. King Word might be, like, pretty good.
- [74:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [74:43]
Bill Simmons
That's another guy. When you read the quotes and stuff, I like that he got in the fight with Jeffrey Simmons.
- [74:47]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. And they were like, what'd you learn from that fight? And he's like, jeff's pretty strong.
- [74:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [74:53]
Danny Kelly
Have you seen Jeff?
- [74:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [74:55]
Bill Simmons
Well, there's also, like a narrative now that's not a narrative narrative anymore, but it seems like it's become a narrative of we're not talking about Cam Ward enough, which is really borrowed from the NBA where we don't talk about guys enough.
- [75:06]
Craig Horlbeck
But there's a first.
- [75:08]
Bill Simmons
The guy in every single ESPN show, first round. We don't talk about Austin Reaves enough. And it's like, no, we actually probably talk about him the right amount. The K. Moore thing. He just looks like he's going to be a franchise quarterback. They have a good offensive line, and I'm not ready to think they could steal the AFC south or be out of nowhere and win nine games, anything like that, because they're pretty bad. And the coaching was bad last year on that team who fucked up more games than the Titans.
- [75:35]
Craig Horlbeck
It's just hard to do anything, though, with Will Levis.
- [75:37]
Danny Kelly
That was Leviss a lot of the time. Yeah.
- [75:39]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. But they had some special team stuff, too. They were sloppy.
- [75:43]
Craig Horlbeck
They played a new guy.
- [75:44]
Danny Heifetz
But their defense was also one of the best defenses to start the season ever. That, like, barely won any games. I will say that I'd love shout out to Bill Callahan the reverse Nepo where the son gives the dad the job. And so they had the best offensive line coach in the league. And I do think it's underrated how much better Cam Ward will be than Will Levis. And then the offensive line getting Damore Jr. It's like kind of like the Panthers.
- [76:03]
Bill Simmons
There's some pieces. I kickstarted it as a sleeper. I couldn't get there.
- [76:07]
Danny Heifetz
Overpay. A mid lineman looks dumb in March. But then we actually see the team. You're like, well, if it works, if it makes JC Latham back to right tackle and everyone's okay. It's actually above average offensive line. Cam Ward with time. I mean, it's kind of like he's doing a Matt Stafford arm angles with like Ben Roth. Like if he was Ben Roth. Smaller Ben Roethlisberger. Like, I like Ken Ward a lot. And he's. He also. All he talks about is throwing to Calvin Ridley.
- [76:29]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. And right now Calvin Ridley is being priced. Like Will Levis is still the quarterback. It's basically they're just like assuming he's going to have the same year he had last year.
- [76:37]
Bill Simmons
And I don't really want to have Calvin Ridley on my team, but it seems like he's going to be the beneficiary.
- [76:41]
Danny Heifetz
He's the boring player that falls like multiple rounds and no one wants to take him.
- [76:46]
Bill Simmons
Also, he was great. What was it a gambling thing or what's this thing?
- [76:50]
Craig Horlbeck
He's an entire year for gambling, which to me, I'm like, great. That means his legs are a year younger than his age suggests.
- [76:54]
Danny Heifetz
That happened with eight, Rod.
- [76:55]
Bill Simmons
So we all have Ridley for that. Anybody have one other guy for that?
- [76:59]
Danny Kelly
I had Ted McMillan for the Panthers. I just think good receiver. And you're not going to like to hear this, but I thought Bryce, you know, elevated that offense in the second half of the year.
- [77:08]
Bill Simmons
At least statistically he had some moments.
- [77:10]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, statistically, I think he got his confidence back because he was like no confidence at all.
- [77:17]
Danny Heifetz
You know, this little butt. Right.
- [77:19]
Craig Horlbeck
Do you know why Bryce Young was in turmoil mentally?
- [77:24]
Danny Heifetz
Tyrese Maxey started dating Gresham's girlfriend.
- [77:27]
Bill Simmons
Oh, really?
- [77:28]
Danny Heifetz
And we think. And then, you know, he kind of. The benching was like a rebirth of sorts.
- [77:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, it was really. The Andy Dalton car accident.
- [77:35]
Danny Heifetz
Yes.
- [77:36]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [77:36]
Bill Simmons
One of the most underrated. The most underrated football moments. Who was the guy that got stabbed by the Chargers team? Dr. Tyrone Tyrone Taylor.
- [77:43]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [77:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [77:44]
Craig Horlbeck
Conspiracy. Do you think that car crash.
- [77:46]
Danny Kelly
You never know.
- [77:47]
Bill Simmons
Who knows?
- [77:48]
Craig Horlbeck
Princess Diana.
- [77:49]
Danny Heifetz
Daniel Jones has got to watch out.
- [77:51]
Bill Simmons
3 episode Netflix show who hit Andy Dalton? Oh, well, we'll do this quick. My. Sorry, that's a little too rich for my blood guy. Mine's McCaffrey. I'm just. Any price over $32. I'm just not.
- [78:07]
Danny Heifetz
Are we doing the McCaffrey thing now?
- [78:09]
Bill Simmons
We don't need to. Everyone.
- [78:12]
Danny Kelly
You don't have to talk me into it. I'm not doing it.
- [78:15]
Bill Simmons
It's just what your level of risk is.
- [78:17]
Craig Horlbeck
If it works, you'll probably win.
- [78:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, you'll feel great. Week four, when he has like the 230 total yards and three TDs and everyone's talking about how he looks like he did five years ago, and then the red flag pops up.
- [78:28]
Danny Heifetz
I mean, we're kind of stepping on this. But you also had a category later. I'd be afraid to look on Tuesday and see the red flag guy.
- [78:33]
Bill Simmons
He's almost should be named after.
- [78:36]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, honestly, it should. He's unlike any other fantasy pick I could remember McCaffrey this year because we're all afraid he's going to get hurt. But every week he doesn't hurt. We're going to rank him where each week first. Yeah. He'll be like, he's the first.
- [78:49]
Bill Simmons
Like the three best guys in the.
- [78:52]
Danny Heifetz
That's my week one test thing with McCaffrey is he's going to probably have three touchdowns in a row.
- [78:56]
Craig Horlbeck
You know, he's just been practicing all month.
- [78:58]
Danny Heifetz
He's going to play nine. He's going to play 19 out of 20 steps.
- [79:01]
Bill Simmons
I get scared when they. It's not even just a calf injury or an Achilles injury. It has some name that I don't even know what the.
- [79:07]
Craig Horlbeck
You mean. Bilateral Achilles tendonitis.
- [79:09]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. It's like, what is that?
- [79:10]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't love that it's spread to the other way.
- [79:13]
Bill Simmons
Speaking of gay malaria, one leg caught the other leg.
- [79:18]
Danny Heifetz
The Warren Buffett rule is the ultimate fantasy thing to me of just like, be bold when everyone else is fearful. Be fearful when everyone's bold.
- [79:24]
Craig Horlbeck
Everyone's not fearful.
- [79:25]
Danny Kelly
He's a first rounder.
- [79:27]
Danny Heifetz
Okay. But he's the best fantasy football player since Ladanian Tomlinson, period, full stop.
- [79:31]
Craig Horlbeck
But he's literally not somebody people are fearful about. If he's going seventh, but he's the.
- [79:36]
Danny Heifetz
Best fantasy football player since Ladanian. I think Tom's.
- [79:39]
Bill Simmons
I think when the draft start, he's going to be in one of the.
- [79:41]
Danny Kelly
He's got good up in my life.
- [79:42]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. I got him 7.
- [79:43]
Bill Simmons
Like literally yesterday he wins the league. If he. If he's healthy in week 15, 16, 17, you win the league.
- [79:48]
Danny Kelly
The argument is you're not trying to get seventh place.
- [79:51]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [79:51]
Danny Kelly
If you're trying to avoid, you know, doing a rage baiting tweets that maybe don't take Christian McCaffrey, but Matthew Barry has bigger go home.
- [79:59]
Danny Heifetz
Barry has the rule of like, you can't win your drafting in the first round, but maybe you can lose it. And like, maybe I'm tempting the fantasy Gods with hubris by being like that. But you know what? This is the exception. Like, I know I sound like hyperbolic, but McCaffrey literally has the most fantasy points per game of any player. And the Niners, even last year when he came back from this injury, they were conservative with it. He played all the snaps.
- [80:17]
Bill Simmons
How old is he now?
- [80:19]
Craig Horlbeck
29.
- [80:20]
Bill Simmons
29. I'm not doing it.
- [80:22]
Craig Horlbeck
His Achilles are 38 though.
- [80:24]
Danny Kelly
Bilateral.
- [80:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Bilateral.
- [80:26]
Bill Simmons
I'm more scared of Achilles and calves than anything. Yeah, I'm buying a Cold War, 1960s level fear.
- [80:32]
Danny Kelly
You'd just be standing there and your Achilles just explodes.
- [80:35]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [80:37]
Bill Simmons
I also had Garrett Wilson for this category.
- [80:39]
Craig Horlbeck
Sure.
- [80:39]
Bill Simmons
But we already talked about him. Heifetz, who's your $1 quarterback guy?
- [80:44]
Danny Heifetz
$1 quarterback guy. So I'm curious where you think this begins because, like, is Dak Prescott a $1 quarterback guy?
- [80:49]
Craig Horlbeck
Is Drake Matt?
- [80:51]
Danny Heifetz
No.
- [80:51]
Bill Simmons
He's probably in that 4 to 5 range. Right.
- [80:54]
Danny Heifetz
I think in that case I will just say I think there's more $1 quarterbacks than I can ever remember. And I can make a case for Stroud. You heard mine in Lawrence. J.J. mcCarthy.
- [81:01]
Bill Simmons
Stroud will be more than $1.
- [81:02]
Danny Heifetz
But I'm gonna have Jordan Love. I think Jordan Love is probably. You don't think so?
- [81:06]
Bill Simmons
He's higher than $1.
- [81:07]
Craig Horlbeck
You think?
- [81:07]
Danny Heifetz
Okay, then I was.
- [81:08]
Danny Kelly
So you're just like two quarterback leagues.
- [81:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Or just one quarterback?
- [81:11]
Bill Simmons
I mean, I have Cam Ward as my $1.
- [81:13]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, so in that case, then I would pick Michael. You're going that deep? Michael Penix?
- [81:16]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Penix $1 is like your backup QB you spend a dollar on and then he wins eight weeks for you. And you can't believe Penix.
- [81:23]
Danny Heifetz
I think Penix is going to throw a lot.
- [81:24]
Danny Kelly
I agree, Bill. I'm getting like Gary Payton vibes with Cam Ward. He just talks shit and picks fights with everyone. Has no fear whatsoever.
- [81:33]
Bill Simmons
The Simmons fight was enthralling. I read like eight stories about it. Why did he do that?
- [81:38]
Danny Kelly
You're going into prison. You pick a fight with the biggest guy.
- [81:40]
Danny Heifetz
When he talks shit with Shadur Punch.
- [81:43]
Craig Horlbeck
The biggest guy you can find in the face.
- [81:46]
Bill Simmons
The 5am meetings. He gets in there for 5am meetings and he would bring the skill guys in and the coaches were like, well, this will stop once preseason starts. And then, and then the coach was like, every day 5am He's a man through the roof. Yeah, it's. He checks some boxes for sleepers.
- [82:07]
Craig Horlbeck
It also makes you think about like when you're like, oh, a Rookie quarterback. How much can they come in and like be a leader and immediately take over? Reading what Cam Ward has done kind of makes you think about Caleb Williams a little bit. Like you don't hear any of that about Caleb.
- [82:18]
Danny Heifetz
And again, no new left tackle. JC Latham's a first round picker. Right tackle you have Peter Skronsky as a first run pick at left guard. And then they have Kevin Zeitler from the Lions on right guard. Yeah, it's an unusually good line for.
- [82:28]
Craig Horlbeck
Good line coach as well.
- [82:29]
Danny Kelly
I like the Cam one. I drafted him in my league in a. In a super flex. I have him as my QB too.
- [82:33]
Bill Simmons
And you loved him. You loved him in the draft, right? As a franchise guy?
- [82:37]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, I didn't. He's like not on the level of a lot of the like first overall picks we've seen in the past at quarterback in terms of as a prospect, you know, older guy and half. It's you talking about. He's like the ultimate American story.
- [82:50]
Danny Heifetz
Camward is the American dream.
- [82:51]
Danny Kelly
Right. He's like a zero star guy that.
- [82:54]
Danny Heifetz
Started at Incarnate Word who transferred to Washington State, who transferred to Miami. He went from one D1 offer to the number one pick in the draft. And the art. I know there's a lot of issues with nil but to me that's why we did Nil and started paying players is that's the American dream. Is like there are a lot of guys maybe could have been Cam Ward but couldn't transfer or whatever, couldn't put themselves through school. But he was able to make money. I can't. It's really like in a very corny way, a very American story.
- [83:19]
Danny Kelly
But yeah, I liked him a lot.
- [83:21]
Bill Simmons
Epton Chisholm Jr. Same thing.
- [83:23]
Craig Horlbeck
That's right.
- [83:25]
Bill Simmons
Our new Julian Edelman.
- [83:26]
Craig Horlbeck
You gotta have one. Yeah. It always has to be a white slot.
- [83:31]
Bill Simmons
DK, who do you have for your Demar DeRozan anti lytics guy? New category for us. Anti lytics. They make no sense. But he's going to put up points and you don't really understand how or.
- [83:42]
Danny Kelly
Why this one I'm going the anti Lytics is because the numbers and vibes and overall just feel right now for the Dolphins is not good. I'm going with Jalen Waddle. These guys hate him. There's a kind of a long running bid. There's a long running bid on our.
- [83:58]
Bill Simmons
He will never be on my team.
- [83:59]
Danny Heifetz
That's how we feel about Lawrence.
- [84:00]
Danny Kelly
This is what I'm talking about though. Because we're all out on him, you know, here collectively.
- [84:04]
Bill Simmons
But weirdly, his stats are good.
- [84:06]
Danny Kelly
Well, last year they weren't great. But going back throughout his career, you know, he'd averaged 12, 13, and 11 points per game. And, you know, if Tyreek goes off and does this thing like he tried to quit last year at the end of the season, like, if he does an Antonio Brown type thing and just pieces out midway through the season, Jalen waddle is getting 35% target rate.
- [84:25]
Danny Heifetz
That's true. And I won't dispute anything he just said. I just. You look at Waddle and the type of player he is and you think he's, boom, bust. But he's had 20 points in a game like three times in two years. It's not even fun to have him.
- [84:35]
Craig Horlbeck
No, no.
- [84:36]
Bill Simmons
I'll never know because I'll never have him.
- [84:39]
Danny Kelly
I'm taking him.
- [84:40]
Bill Simmons
You like him?
- [84:41]
Danny Kelly
I'm doing it. Screw you guys.
- [84:43]
Bill Simmons
Do you have a DeMar DeRozan guy? This is your category.
- [84:46]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. I think James Cook, it's like, oh, he had 18 touchdowns last year. No way he'll do that again. You know, the numbers suggest that he'll regress. And I'm just like, I'm just like, now he's going to do it again. I kind of think actually at the.
- [84:58]
Danny Heifetz
Same thing with James Cook, he's just going to do it again.
- [85:00]
Craig Horlbeck
He's just going to have 18 touchdowns again and be great. I don't care what the number says.
- [85:04]
Danny Heifetz
I had the same thing. He's going to have 16 again.
- [85:06]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm like, it's just going to happen.
- [85:07]
Bill Simmons
Mine is Isaiah Pacheco.
- [85:09]
Craig Horlbeck
Ooh.
- [85:11]
Danny Kelly
But you're out or in.
- [85:12]
Bill Simmons
I think he's an anti lytics guy and he'll end up with like 13 touchdowns.
- [85:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [85:16]
Bill Simmons
I love that because you watch him and you're like, it feels like the first four running backs on the team called in sick and they had to, like, grab him. Hey, will you put on this jersey? And it looks like he started to.
- [85:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Figure out how to run.
- [85:26]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. He just doesn't seem like he should be a starting running back or any kind of running back.
- [85:31]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [85:31]
Bill Simmons
And then he's 17 for 80 with two touchdowns.
- [85:34]
Danny Heifetz
He runs like he bites people.
- [85:35]
Craig Horlbeck
Because he was a. Like, he. He was going pretty highly in drafts two years ago or like last year, and then he broke his leg. And so he was out most of the year now. Everybody just kind of forgot about him.
- [85:43]
Danny Heifetz
Well, people were like, oh, he broke his leg last year. I Don't want him because he was so bad when he came back. I'm like, he came back last year, right? He's recovered.
- [85:50]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I like Pacheco.
- [85:51]
Bill Simmons
Did you have an anti athletics guy?
- [85:52]
Danny Heifetz
I had James Cook too, where I'm like, generally speaking, you can count on touchdown. I think you said James Cook never had more than two touchdowns in a year and then he had 16 and that's the safest bet you can make is to have less than 16. I'm like, Ah, he's going to do it again yet. And yet. That one. That one. He's going to do it again.
- [86:05]
Bill Simmons
Well, this dives into. I can't resist. Even though I know I'll be afraid to look on a Tuesday and see the red flag guy. I don't know why I have him down, but I think it's because I had him in both leagues last year. Sam Laporta. I just felt like he's always has some sort of minor injury that you're just being held hostage with. No, he's going to play. He hurt his shoulder, but he's okay. And he takes big hits. When you watch the Lions, it always feels like he gets wrecked. Yeah, Goffel just throw it over the middle. He'll just get annihilated by a linebacker. I didn't really enjoy the experience. $20 or whatever I paid.
- [86:44]
Danny Heifetz
It was a little tough for Sam Laporte last year. Dude, McCaffrey, we got to name this the McCaffrey Award. Like, if McCaffrey pops up at the red flag, like, I can't imagine anything.
- [86:51]
Bill Simmons
I'm trying to say against McCaffrey, but this has to be McCaffrey. Is there anybody else who's in this? Tyree Kill has to be in here.
- [86:56]
Craig Horlbeck
I think Malik neighbors kind of in here.
- [87:00]
Danny Heifetz
This is the secret Giants F keep to ourselves. He's already has quite a bit of injuries.
- [87:04]
Danny Kelly
First, second rounder right now.
- [87:05]
Danny Heifetz
Is that a toe injury since Ellis.
- [87:06]
Bill Simmons
Injuries where he's just trying to stretch out to catch the ball and gets hurt?
- [87:09]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he got knocked. I mean, he got knocked out in the Cowboys game when he made an amazing sideline catch and his face hit the ground. I think he lost consciousness and then.
- [87:17]
Bill Simmons
What is he, like 170?
- [87:18]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, well, he's the back, he's the toe, he's a shoulder.
- [87:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Like, he's all they got. They're going to throw him. He led the league in targets last year. I'm like, just be careful.
- [87:25]
Danny Heifetz
I'm a little worried because he's a special Player. They threw him 50 balls in the first month of the season, which, I mean, that's what Cooper cup got when he won the triple Crown. It was 50 targets in the first season. Month of the season. He was a rookie. But yeah, I'm also. I don't know if he knows how to protect himself in the field to some degree or I don't know what's going on there. But he's picked up more injuries than I would like to see.
- [87:41]
Danny Kelly
He's £200, by the way. He's kind of.
- [87:43]
Danny Heifetz
He's thicker than you think for a fast guy.
- [87:45]
Bill Simmons
£200, really?
- [87:46]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [87:46]
Danny Heifetz
Well, that's because he wears one, so he looks slim.
- [87:50]
Bill Simmons
That's smart. Smart uniform stuff.
- [87:53]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm going to start.
- [87:54]
Danny Kelly
I had a repeat here. I had Kenneth Walker always hurt. It's going to be great. It's going to be awesome watching him run and score a bunch of points in first three weeks and then in week four, he's like out with a oblique injury and I'm like, I've had.
- [88:07]
Bill Simmons
Him the last couple years in at least one league and it just never seems like he's healthy for more than three weeks.
- [88:13]
Danny Kelly
I'm going to do it again, though.
- [88:15]
Bill Simmons
He's great.
- [88:15]
Danny Heifetz
You think he's 27, right?
- [88:17]
Bill Simmons
All right, you're leading us off for my 2022 Cooper Cup. It's a year after the year guy. So we named this after Cooper cup because he had that 21 where just everything's perfect. He checks every box. It's clear it's his career year. And then the next year you're getting bought at that price when it's like that's never happening again.
- [88:38]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [88:38]
Bill Simmons
So who's that this year for you, Craig?
- [88:42]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't want to believe this, but I. I think it's the right call. Is Jaden Daniels. And the commanders, Jaden. They were the best fourth down team ever. 87% conversion rate. Jaden. Everybody was worried about how skinny he was. He played all 17 games. He did hurt his ribs, but he was able to keep playing. I'm kind of like, man. Also, their schedule last year was way easier than it's going to be this year. Last year they played the NFC south. They played the Titans, the Cardinals. This year they play the NFC north and the AFC west, which I think are the two best divisions. Football. Their two easiest games are Atlanta and Miami outside of the Giants, who are in the division. And I'm kind of just like, you know, there's a lot of things that could go Wrong. I feel like the roster is fantastic.
- [89:24]
Bill Simmons
We don't know about the McLaurin thing.
- [89:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [89:26]
Bill Simmons
Not sure about Debo, the seventh round running back who's like, my name's Jacob but call me Bill. Whatever. Whatever's going on.
- [89:35]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [89:35]
Danny Kelly
Corey.
- [89:36]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. They're tied into Zachary, 40.
- [89:40]
Danny Heifetz
That's the other thing with Washington is they're an old team. It's like the Steelers. You think that they're old because of Rogers, but they're kind of young. The Washington, you think they're young because of Jay and Daniels.
- [89:47]
Danny Kelly
They're the old.
- [89:47]
Danny Heifetz
Washington's the oldest team in the NFL.
- [89:49]
Bill Simmons
I don't want to spoil my pod with Sal, but you won't be surprised to know I don't have Washington in the playoffs. Yeah, you know, I, I also had Jaden Daniels. Yeah. I just. Everything went right. I mean they fucking completed a Hail Mary.
- [90:05]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I know.
- [90:06]
Bill Simmons
They were 20 for 23 on fourth down. Part of me is everything went right.
- [90:09]
Danny Heifetz
Missing the playoffs to me is a given. Maybe that's insulting to Washington fans, but I'm like, if you look at the quarterback, if you look at the quarterbacks they played, they were like atrocious all year fantasy.
- [90:20]
Bill Simmons
And they went from the half dead Ron Rivera to the Dan Quinn. They went from, I don't remember who their quarterback, Sam Howell and all the other schmucks they had the year before to Jaden Daniels. Easiest schedule possible. Yeah, like, come on, they were the classic bump team. It's not going to happen again.
- [90:38]
Danny Kelly
The thing that I like reference with Jayn Daniels is I feel like here it's such a hater thing to say is like Jayn Daniels is going to fall off of her having an all time rookie season, one of the most exciting and electric players in all of football. Like revitalize, revitalize the entire franchise. Like a whole new era. But I look at what happened with CJ Stroud too in year two where people start to catch up with what you're good at and take away the things that you're really good at. I just worry a little bit that, you know, that's going to happen here.
- [91:07]
Bill Simmons
I don't think their defense is good. Like they lost a lot of dudes. True.
- [91:11]
Craig Horlbeck
I do think there's a little bit of like off season amnesia you get sometimes where you kind of start to look at like the narratives and the math and you're like, well they were pretty good on fourth down.
- [91:20]
Bill Simmons
Oh, actually this and that.
- [91:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, their schedule was hard. And so you're like, you Know what? I'm out on the commanders. Jaden Daniels is going to have a regression second year. When I watched him, I was like.
- [91:28]
Danny Heifetz
This is this guy's fucking week one test. You're gonna watch him like, oh yeah, this is. This guy is unbelievable. He also burrow in week three.
- [91:34]
Craig Horlbeck
It was like week three. And I was like, I trust him over anybody. Maybe he could do surgery.
- [91:39]
Bill Simmons
That would be the zag against. This is if he's just in that Alan Mahomes category and that's it, then that means he goes at least 10 and 7 every year.
- [91:48]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, it just doesn't matter.
- [91:49]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
- [91:49]
Danny Kelly
I kind of lean that way more actually, to be honest. But I think this is like a. Like mathematically it's more for Washington than him.
- [91:55]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [91:56]
Bill Simmons
Like it's just everything went right for that team last year.
- [91:58]
Danny Heifetz
I mean, if you want to do sophomore slump, it's Jaden Daniels. But the nature of this category, like a year after the year after, I think Saquon has to be the guy. Saquon just had the best running back season any running back's ever had. Like he literally just spurned his old team, went to the Eagles, which are the two home down teams where he grew up, had the most rushing yards ever in a single season, including the playoffs, and then won the Super Bowl. And we kind of just saw that. Except he lost Super bowl with McCaffrey and then McCaffrey barely played last year. It's like the history of. I mean, sick. One of the second most touches of.
- [92:25]
Danny Kelly
The 21st century, like 482 or something like that.
- [92:27]
Danny Heifetz
Almost 500 touches.
- [92:29]
Bill Simmons
And what was the Aaron Schatz thing? 375.
- [92:32]
Craig Horlbeck
It was 370.
- [92:33]
Danny Heifetz
It was the curse of 370.
- [92:34]
Bill Simmons
Curse of 370. That was a great one. I was really jealous of that one.
- [92:37]
Danny Heifetz
Saquon had four.
- [92:38]
Bill Simmons
I should have invented that one.
- [92:39]
Craig Horlbeck
Craig.
- [92:39]
Danny Heifetz
There you go.
- [92:40]
Danny Kelly
You could just say you did.
- [92:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [92:44]
Danny Heifetz
The curse of 370. Yes. For 470. And so you look at that and you're like, okay. So the history guys at that is really simple. Half of them who did it missed half the next season. So it's a coin flip and if he doesn't, it'd be great.
- [92:57]
Bill Simmons
Who's the backup running back in Philly?
- [92:58]
Danny Heifetz
Will Shipley.
- [92:59]
Craig Horlbeck
Who?
- [92:59]
Danny Heifetz
I laid her down. Will Shipley is the biggest sleeper in fantasy football now that everyone knows Jaquori Krosky Merritt exists. The biggest sleeper in fantasy football? Yeah. Bill Merritt, Will. You invented that one. Too Will Shipley it. The Eagles signed A.J. dillon, but he's kind of washed. Will Shipley actually was. No, I'm telling you, Will Shipley's going to be the guy. But yeah, some moments I think Will Shipley. If you think Saquon's going to get hurt. Will Shipley because Eagles starting running back by like week 11.
- [93:26]
Bill Simmons
DK, you had a 22 Cooper cup guy, right?
- [93:29]
Danny Kelly
I put Saquon.
- [93:30]
Bill Simmons
Okay.
- [93:30]
Danny Kelly
I just think it's the. Like, the obvious is just based on the volume. I guess you could put Derek Henry here if you want. I'm personally not fading Derek Henry until he actually falls off.
- [93:39]
Danny Heifetz
He's like the mountain from Thrones. Like, I gotta see him die.
- [93:42]
Bill Simmons
No, it's. It's stupid, though. You just gotta take him over here. Yeah, it's like mis is like that too. Let's all give up. They're just gonna keep doing this until they stop doing it.
- [93:50]
Danny Kelly
I almost put Henry as my one true love for this year, but I decided to go to Powers.
- [93:54]
Bill Simmons
It is awesome to have him on your team.
- [93:56]
Danny Kelly
Oh, my God.
- [93:57]
Danny Heifetz
You feel invincible.
- [93:57]
Bill Simmons
It really is just great.
- [93:59]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm never gonna die.
- [94:00]
Danny Kelly
I don't think I like immortal.
- [94:02]
Bill Simmons
Do we all have for the. I just want everyone on that offense. I don't care who team is it all. All Cincinnati across the board.
- [94:07]
Danny Kelly
I think you're gonna go ahead.
- [94:08]
Craig Horlbeck
I think you're gonna hate me. I have the Niners.
- [94:10]
Danny Heifetz
I have the Niners too. Well, the Bengals, you have to use your first three picks to get the. We have Chase and then you have to get Chase.
- [94:16]
Bill Simmons
So you would want Piersol and Jennings and wait six weeks on IUK.
- [94:20]
Craig Horlbeck
I would take. Well, maybe Kittle. Oh, Kittle, Jennings, McCaffrey, Purdy. I think they're all good values.
- [94:26]
Danny Heifetz
I'm confused by you having the Bengals. I feel like you make fun of people who like spend all their money on four players, but you literally to get Burrow, Te, Higgins, Jamar Cheese.
- [94:34]
Bill Simmons
I want everyone on that offense. I don't care who team. So that means I get Burrow, Chase Brown, Higgins or Jamar. That's like your Chase.
- [94:42]
Danny Heifetz
That's a pretty good.
- [94:43]
Bill Simmons
Even if I get one of them, I'm happy.
- [94:45]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, okay.
- [94:46]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [94:46]
Danny Heifetz
No, I mean the man.
- [94:47]
Bill Simmons
I love that Chase Brown on my team. I wouldn't really be excited for the Gasecki.
- [94:52]
Danny Heifetz
No.
- [94:53]
Danny Kelly
You take him as a hammer.
- [94:55]
Bill Simmons
He's a Hancock, Sabis, whatever his name was.
- [94:56]
Danny Heifetz
The Bengals are good. I think the difference is the Niners are cheaper because you get McCaffrey in the first round.
- [95:00]
Bill Simmons
Ricky Pierce, super duper cheap. How about. Can I offer you Drake Mays, Stefan Diggs, Trevion Henderson, and.
- [95:07]
Danny Heifetz
For someone who is. I'll just say this about. While you're. While you're talking about the fucking Patriots, I will just say this. You guys better be better under variable because if you're not, all your shit about Herbert can't win. Drake May currently has won one game as a starter. He has one win, so they better win some goddamn games. He played 10 games and he went one and nine. And I'm just saying you better actually.
- [95:26]
Bill Simmons
Be good instead of defending this. I'll ask you, what do you think Jarad Mayo is doing this year for a job?
- [95:32]
Danny Heifetz
It's a great question.
- [95:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Where is he doing professionally?
- [95:35]
Danny Heifetz
What is he doing?
- [95:35]
Craig Horlbeck
I'll look it up.
- [95:36]
Bill Simmons
Do you realize how bad offensive line was last year? It was like, please don't just get Jake May killed. And yeah, Jake May has it.
- [95:43]
Danny Heifetz
We. I think that they will. I think they could make the playoffs. I just. If they don't, it will be funny.
- [95:48]
Bill Simmons
I'm going to.
- [95:49]
Danny Heifetz
Because then Drake May is going to be.
- [95:49]
Bill Simmons
Herbert come through a wall right now and start strangling. Oh yeah.
- [95:53]
Danny Heifetz
Nate loves Justin Herbert.
- [95:54]
Bill Simmons
Nate Tice knows Cincy. Any other. So you would say Dallas even. Like you would roll the dice with a running back?
- [96:01]
Craig Horlbeck
No, I wouldn't want the running backs. No.
- [96:03]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Workday. There are two kinds of people in the world. Backward thinkers and forward thinkers. Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now. They're not just one step ahead, they're 1,000 steps ahead. And when you're a forward thinker, you need a platform that thinks like you do. Workday's AI illuminates decision making and reimagines how you manage your people and money for long term success. Workday moving business forever forward. Find out more@workday.com this episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably gonna see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to viori.com simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori V-U-O-R-I.com Simmons enjoy free shipping on all US orders over $75, plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. DK who's your My year Too early? Fuck it guy.
- [97:21]
Danny Kelly
So there's obviously a lot. We talked to Buka. I think he would be like my top choice. I talked Ted McMillan. I went a little further down the board here and I, for some reason, I'm just really excited about Colston Loveland, the tight end for the Bears. I just think. And I really like Tyler Warren too, actually the Colts tight end. But I just feel like they drafted him with a very specific role in mind. His ability to do things over the middle field, stretch, stretch the seams, run after the catch. There's teams that were looking at him. I heard this from Dane Brugler. Teams were looking at him as a receiver before the draft. Some teams were kind of evaluating him through that lens. He's a really big, smooth, huge catch radius. I just think he's going to be a huge part of this offense. Like, and obviously there's other weapons in that offense. D.J. moore is still there. Roma Dunes still there. But I just, I think like four weeks down the line, if he's, you know, top two on that team and receiving, it won't be a big surprise to me. And like the way that Caleb Williams looked in his last preseason game, hitting his, getting, getting the ball out, hitting his back foot on time in rhythm. And I just think that's going to be Colson Loveland over the middle field.
- [98:30]
Bill Simmons
Okay.
- [98:31]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I'm going to stay with the Bears. I think Luther Burden, like that's a good one too.
- [98:36]
Bill Simmons
One of the best names ever.
- [98:37]
Craig Horlbeck
He might just like in my head he's just like Antonio Brown waiting to happen on the field. But I'm not convinced anybody likes DJ Moore. I'm not convinced Roma Dunes is good and I kind of. Ben Johnson wanted Luther Burton drafted. Luther Burden and he's already popped a few times in preseason. And if he plays in the slot, Ben Johnson's slot receivers, he had Jarvis Landry when he was in Miami who caught like 100 bastards a year. And then obviously Amon Ross, St. Brown. I just think eye test wise Luther Burden, who had a weird year his final year in college, there's like injury stuff. He wasn't that good the year before. He was like the best wide receiver in college football. Would have been a tough time.
- [99:11]
Bill Simmons
Was there some like work ethic questions with him?
- [99:13]
Craig Horlbeck
Yes.
- [99:13]
Danny Heifetz
Well, I think our joke during the draft show was that all the teams were looking at Luther Burden and being like, oh, man, five star. Crazy talent, crazy speed. Might be a headache. Ben Johnson, who's just dealt with James Williams for three years, is like, oh, I'll be fine.
- [99:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, give me that any day of the week. I just think he's awesome.
- [99:29]
Danny Kelly
He has his number 87, though, which is tough.
- [99:31]
Danny Heifetz
Well, that's because they're too young to remember when receivers wore that. So they're bringing it back as they think it's new.
- [99:35]
Danny Kelly
It looks kind of like a tight end.
- [99:37]
Danny Heifetz
It looks. Yeah.
- [99:38]
Bill Simmons
DK mentioned my guy. Who? Tyler Warren.
- [99:42]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, I have Tyler Warren.
- [99:43]
Danny Kelly
So I waffled between the two of those.
- [99:44]
Bill Simmons
All right, let's do the Tyler Warren thing. So they picked Danny Dimes as their qb. Who I checked around with Giants fans. I didn't need to ask Heifetz because I already knew. But I talked to a couple other Giants fans in my life and they were just like. Because I was like, I just want to make sure the Colts, as an AFC south team, it's not going to happen.
- [100:04]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [100:04]
Bill Simmons
I was like, just how bad was Dimes last year? And it just sounded really bad. Like the chasm from 22 dimes, which wasn't exactly Joe Montana, but he was like 15 TDs, five interceptions. He ran for 700 yards. That guy was like, miles better than last year. Dimes, who lost his job to Tommy DeVito.
- [100:23]
Danny Heifetz
Only no one said anything nice about Daniel Jones while he was alive. Only when they cut him and he wasn't playing every week where people were like, nah, he could play. I'm a Giants fan. I never heard one nice thing from anybody for four years about that guy.
- [100:35]
Bill Simmons
I mean, Richardson has to be so bad for them to be like, yes.
- [100:39]
Danny Kelly
They'Re just, like, giving up on it.
- [100:41]
Craig Horlbeck
I just screen passes.
- [100:42]
Bill Simmons
So I picture the one thing they do have is a good offensive line. Right.
- [100:46]
Danny Heifetz
The Colts, it's okay. It's above average when they have a.
- [100:51]
Bill Simmons
Running game and there's going to be play action and throw it to Tyler Warren because they had this whole deep passing offense that he's not going to be able to execute because he can't throw deep.
- [101:01]
Craig Horlbeck
No.
- [101:02]
Bill Simmons
You know what he can do for Tyler Warren?
- [101:04]
Danny Heifetz
It's tunnel. Screenshot.
- [101:06]
Bill Simmons
I'm in on Tyler Warren. I think he's this year's kind of discount Bowers.
- [101:10]
Danny Heifetz
I totally agree. People think Tyler Warren can block because he has long hair and Jeremy Shockey and George Kittle have long hair and he can't block. He's a receiver. Tyler Warren had the. He was the only player in the Power 5 conference last year in college football to have 100 catches. Like he's a receiver. He had tied the most catches in a game of any tight end ever in the history of college football. Like he's a crazy good receiver. And again, to your point, Daniel Jones, like, I mean Dable the Shoestring and Bubblegum, that Giants season that made the playoffs, that screwed up the whole team. Like it was so much tight ends to guys that didn't have talent. But I totally agree. I just the.
- [101:40]
Bill Simmons
I also thought he should have gone first as the tight end. I know you like Loveland, but I.
- [101:44]
Danny Kelly
Mean, I like him.
- [101:45]
Bill Simmons
It's kind of crazy that he fell to 14. I remember looking at him for the Pats the second one.
- [101:49]
Craig Horlbeck
You watched him in preseason. You were like, oh yeah.
- [101:52]
Danny Heifetz
And the other thing too is that the Colts are. Every team has something like this or a lot of teams do where they haven't been able to fill tight end for 10 years.
- [101:59]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, they're kind of like platooning that forever.
- [102:01]
Danny Heifetz
It's kind of like, you know, maybe like didn't.
- [102:03]
Bill Simmons
This makes sense. I could see him in the uniform. I can see him having big games.
- [102:07]
Craig Horlbeck
Competition, like there's no other real alpha.
- [102:10]
Bill Simmons
Let's speed through the rest of these because we took way too long. We'll. We'll just go rapid fire, missionary position. We've all had him. This is getting boring. It's not even exciting to see him in the lineup anymore. Guy for me it's Kelsey. That's, that's, it's just like, all right. Oh, Kelsey did the thing where he had one catch for 10 yards and there's a red flag next to him and should I start him next? Oh, now he has seven catches for 90. Again, just not. Is there anybody else you would have?
- [102:35]
Danny Kelly
Aaron Jones. I mean I think he's a good player still, but he was banged up pretty much all last year. He's getting older.
- [102:42]
Bill Simmons
Let's talk about platooning him.
- [102:43]
Danny Kelly
Yep.
- [102:44]
Danny Heifetz
The. I have Alvin Camara just. You're going to turn him on, watch him and then you're going to watch Spencer Rattler, quarterback.
- [102:50]
Danny Kelly
He's going to catch a pass on the side, you know, like a bubble screen or whatever and just get gain one yard.
- [102:54]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. Just be a three and out machine. Never you see him.
- [102:58]
Craig Horlbeck
Jared Goff does nothing for me anymore. I don't want you to golf on my team.
- [103:01]
Bill Simmons
I don't make you feel dead inside.
- [103:03]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. Just like, he can't move. I know he's good.
- [103:07]
Bill Simmons
I fell for the preseason hype. That guy. I had Genti. Just because the hype is like, no, no, actually, you should pay 50 plus dollars for him. They're going to use him all the time. And I've been. I mentioned Hunter before, but those two. I think we didn't really talk about Genti, but it just seems like he's going to have the ball. The time he wants the ball, Pico is going to give him the ball. And then the only other one I had there was Mahomes. Just the Mahomes comeback, better weapons.
- [103:37]
Craig Horlbeck
There's not another hall of Fame.
- [103:39]
Bill Simmons
I'm not buying it.
- [103:39]
Craig Horlbeck
There's not another hall of Fame quarterback whose hype you bought. Maybe in the East Coast.
- [103:43]
Bill Simmons
Well, I mean, his. What do you mean?
- [103:45]
Danny Kelly
Maybe in.
- [103:46]
Craig Horlbeck
Maybe up in Pittsburgh.
- [103:48]
Danny Kelly
Rust Belt didn't.
- [103:49]
Bill Simmons
Didn't buy that one. Aaron Rodgers, any other preseason hype. Guys, you. You were.
- [103:53]
Danny Kelly
I. So I was. I couldn't remember exactly how to define this category, whether it's like I fell for it in.
- [104:00]
Bill Simmons
I think that's part of the point, is some of these categories are confusing intentionally.
- [104:04]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [104:04]
Craig Horlbeck
They're all Apex Mountain.
- [104:05]
Danny Kelly
And so I put George Pickens, because I've. I have fallen for the preseason with Pickens, and I don't know how it's going to go. I think Occam's Razor is probably. He's going to be off the team in week seven or whatever. But, like, I think he could also have 1200 yards.
- [104:21]
Craig Horlbeck
You haven't none of the Rogers quotes teammates.
- [104:25]
Bill Simmons
I actually have the Rogers.
- [104:27]
Craig Horlbeck
None of it.
- [104:27]
Bill Simmons
I have it blocked.
- [104:28]
Danny Kelly
None of it.
- [104:28]
Bill Simmons
I have it blocked on my Google.
- [104:29]
Craig Horlbeck
Okay. There's a lot of good stuff about him.
- [104:33]
Danny Heifetz
So you should do your own research. That's the problem.
- [104:35]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm just saying a lot of the young guys really like him. Good locker room guy, like a hostage situation. Misunderstood.
- [104:41]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [104:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Him and Tomlin, they really work.
- [104:44]
Danny Heifetz
Craig walked in one day and was like. Will Howard said, can't wait to learn from him. And we were like, what the fuck do you think Will Howard's gonna say?
- [104:50]
Craig Horlbeck
Why? Because he's a rookie.
- [104:51]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [104:52]
Danny Heifetz
You were like, yeah. They said nice things about him. I'm like, well, what are they gonna do?
- [104:56]
Danny Kelly
This guy's great.
- [104:56]
Craig Horlbeck
They've been great. They're going out of their way to, like, be truly effusive. You could be like, oh, yeah, it's been great. Skyler Thompson is like, this guy is completely misunderstood. All the receivers all the linemen. He seems like he's very well liked right now. That's all I'll say. These aren't my quotes. I'm reading them.
- [105:10]
Bill Simmons
I don't know what plan B is for the conversation though.
- [105:13]
Craig Horlbeck
What do you mean?
- [105:14]
Bill Simmons
Like if we just added some new person and then somebody interviewed Danny Kelly and we're like, what do you think of the new producer, Johnny?
- [105:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, I don't know.
- [105:22]
Bill Simmons
Like, Johnny's been great. He has weird thoughts on the pyramids.
- [105:27]
Craig Horlbeck
Why aren't there quotes about how awesome Sam Darnold is? Everybody loves Sam Darnold. All the players are talking about how great he is. Why isn't there that?
- [105:33]
Danny Heifetz
Because Sam Darnold doesn't.
- [105:34]
Bill Simmons
There has been. They're not paying attention. Yeah, they have been talking about that.
- [105:37]
Danny Heifetz
It's almost like Sam Darnold's focused on winning this season instead of just talking about who built the pyramid.
- [105:43]
Craig Horlbeck
He's not talking about that stuff right now. He's famous. People are interviewing him. He's not.
- [105:49]
Danny Kelly
I don't really know if there has been many.
- [105:50]
Danny Heifetz
This is the first topic since we've done the show where like, younger Greg would punch current Greg in the face.
- [105:55]
Bill Simmons
This is actually honestly a little sad.
- [105:57]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, stop.
- [105:58]
Bill Simmons
No, it really is.
- [106:00]
Craig Horlbeck
You know what's funny is Sean came on our pod and was like, Craig, you have to have a take. You can't be apathetic about this. You can't say like, eh, they'll probably win eight games.
- [106:07]
Danny Kelly
Because your take for a long time was like, this is their best of many games.
- [106:10]
Craig Horlbeck
So if I have to pick a side, I'm going to be like, yeah, fuck yeah. We'll win 12 games.
- [106:13]
Danny Heifetz
December. Craig was like, I can't believe some team's going to talk themselves into Rodgers.
- [106:18]
Craig Horlbeck
I still maintain that this was the best thing they could have done in this situation this year. I don't know what the alternative was.
- [106:23]
Bill Simmons
I like when with SHIELD anybody brings up Rodgers to him and he just like, he. It's like this switch goes up. He's like, no quarterback over 42 years old has ever played more than 10 grades other than Tom Brady. Like, he's just. Sheila's the most out of anyone at the ringer.
- [106:38]
Craig Horlbeck
I think he's 41.
- [106:39]
Danny Kelly
I love that.
- [106:40]
Bill Simmons
Is he going to be 42 during the season?
- [106:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Towards the end of it, yes. What were they going to do, give Sam Darnold $100 million? I'm good.
- [106:49]
Danny Kelly
Hey, come on.
- [106:51]
Bill Simmons
I thought of Sam Darnold.
- [106:52]
Craig Horlbeck
What should they have done?
- [106:52]
Bill Simmons
I don't mean to open up Shadora can of worms, but I don't understand.
- [106:56]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, you could have had Jackson Darnold.
- [106:58]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, you could add Jackson Dart.
- [107:00]
Danny Heifetz
That actually had never occurred to me.
- [107:01]
Bill Simmons
It actually seems really good.
- [107:02]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, you're right. Right now that dart looks okay.
- [107:04]
Bill Simmons
Sure looks okay. He's hypothetical jersey.
- [107:08]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, we can. Kenny Pickett looked really good in preseason.
- [107:10]
Bill Simmons
I like how you went from throwing dimes to throwing darts, dude.
- [107:13]
Danny Heifetz
And also you have two emojis you can use because you can use the dart, but also you can use cigarettes, which are all like all time emoji. Quarterback.
- [107:20]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, sure.
- [107:20]
Danny Heifetz
I mean, between DeVito with the thing, the Giants are cornering the market on like the emoji quarterback.
- [107:24]
Bill Simmons
Schrager had the funniest Trager monologue about dart about. He has it. He has it. You can see it. He has it.
- [107:33]
Craig Horlbeck
He kind of does.
- [107:34]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he does.
- [107:34]
Craig Horlbeck
He has a little bit of aura.
- [107:36]
Danny Heifetz
He's come a long way from that Gruden video where Gruden's like, show me your snap count. And he's like, cool. And he just claps.
- [107:42]
Bill Simmons
That's how I felt in our old studios when we had all the podcast interns and I met Craig. I was like, I told Fenison, got it. Craig has it. He has it. I can see it.
- [107:51]
Craig Horlbeck
How do you start a podcast? I'm like.
- [107:54]
Danny Kelly
Actually, we do that. Line up the audio.
- [107:57]
Bill Simmons
Oh, this is, I think, my favorite category. My. I'd never root for an injury.
- [108:04]
Craig Horlbeck
I would root for one. It's Breece Hall. I want him to get hurt. God damn it, Craig. So Braylon Allen get the football.
- [108:09]
Bill Simmons
Let me live.
- [108:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I don't root for an injury.
- [108:12]
Bill Simmons
But he is one injury away guy. And we already talked about Breeze Hall.
- [108:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Russell Wilson wouldn't mind a pulled hammy so we can see Dart.
- [108:19]
Danny Kelly
I know.
- [108:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Just saying.
- [108:23]
Bill Simmons
I had Ray Davis down here. There could be a really fun seven week Ray Davis stretch. We don't want anyone to get hurt, but if James Cook has a little pulled hammy or something and Ray Davis comes in and he's just awesome. I could see that one. I have to just as a Pats fan, put Ramandre Stevenson on this, I.
- [108:44]
Danny Heifetz
Don'T think he's gonna get benched.
- [108:45]
Bill Simmons
I don't think he needed more touches.
- [108:48]
Danny Kelly
How do you feel about Ramondre? I feel. I still feel like he's a good running back.
- [108:51]
Bill Simmons
The fumbles are just out of control. I just can't handle the running backs that fumble.
- [108:56]
Danny Heifetz
Just don't fumble.
- [108:57]
Bill Simmons
Hold on the ball. Sure.
- [108:58]
Danny Heifetz
Ramoncho is an ex that in two years he's not even going to remember the name. He's going to be like, who was there before? Like, it's going to like slip out of his memory.
- [109:05]
Bill Simmons
I don't know what the total number of running back fumbles, what the number is before. You just completely lose confidence forever. But I'm there.
- [109:12]
Danny Kelly
He's close.
- [109:13]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah. It's like double digits in two years. Any other injury, guys, dude, like just lingering. You mentioned the Eagles.
- [109:19]
Danny Heifetz
Well, I mentioned Will Shipley, who I'll.
- [109:21]
Bill Simmons
Shipley.
- [109:23]
Danny Heifetz
Probably the player who is the biggest ratio of how much people are talking about him, which is zero to the importance he could have in the season. Which if Saquon, you know, again, second most touches of the 21st century. If Saquon gets hurt, you're like, damn, Will Shipley. Is he going to be the starting running back for the Philadelphia Eagles? And then if you want to say, oh, maybe it's not him, it's A.J. dillon, fine. I haven't heard anyone talking about A.J. dillon for the Eagles, but even they split it, that's a crazy workload. The only other thing I'll say is I think Zach Charbonnet for the Seahawks. Yeah, I don't even have to wish an injury on anyone. Ken Walker's just always hurt.
- [109:50]
Danny Kelly
He's the chardonnay.
- [109:52]
Danny Heifetz
He's the easiest person to see where if the Seahawks are good and it's what we think they'll be and they make the playoffs, the defense is awesome. They're going to run ice out and then Walker's hurt and you're like, Charbonnet.
- [110:02]
Bill Simmons
He'S coming on Seahawks island with this game.
- [110:04]
Danny Heifetz
I am, I am. I am coming on Seahawks Island. But I just think basically if Charbonnet is the easiest player to envision joining that like top four group of like, oh, it's McCaffrey, Saquon, Gibbs, Bijan. Zach Charbonnet was fifth in the second half of the season with. But it's. If Kevin Walker's hurt, man, he's going to be so good in that system.
- [110:21]
Danny Kelly
He has a fun running style. He will go out of his way to truck you. Like, he's one of those guys who will be like, I could go there or there and be open or I could just run right through that guy in a good way, in a bad way.
- [110:33]
Craig Horlbeck
It's a trolley problem. But he chooses more people.
- [110:35]
Danny Kelly
He totally runs over all the children.
- [110:37]
Bill Simmons
I do have a random football question though. Like, everyone's talking about Quinn Kubiak like the zone blocking, how good it is. And Gray Zabel's been amazing in his zone blocking scheme. So why don't more people do zone blocking schemes? Like why didn't the Patriots do it last year when they had no fucking offensive lineman?
- [110:51]
Danny Heifetz
I can answer that. So the reason, it's super hard to figure out. It's hard to teach. Detail oriented. It's detail oriented to teach. It's a simple system for when you understand it. Players like it because they talk about feeling like a computer 01 see hit. And so they feel like, I don't have to think, I can just execute. And so you become faster. So one, you need an organizational commitment to it because what you end up doing is basically like.
- [111:15]
Bill Simmons
Heifetz would have such a great answer for this. I was like going with a hypothetical.
- [111:19]
Danny Heifetz
I'm just making it.
- [111:20]
Danny Kelly
You also have to have a quarterback who's willing to play under center.
- [111:22]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. So you can't have Rodgers because you have to be able to do play action, turn your back to the defense. You can't have Rodgers doing the Ben Roethlisberger impression where everything's in shotgun. You can't do that. So you have to be under center number one. But I'm just saying you also need an organizational commitment to faster alignment. Look, the Niners line, I think when they started doing. And now it's more gap stuff too. But the Niners line was like the lightest line in the league. So you need a multi year effort to draft. They've got right guys. But the whole point though, it sounds complicated. It's just to make cornerbacks tackle. The premise of this, when they started doing this with the Broncos, Mike Shanahan, his dad, Alex Gibbs, the whole point was, well, if you're going to have all these dots and Matt, make the one one on one with the running back, the worst tackler, that's a cornerback. So the whole point of wide zone.
- [111:59]
Bill Simmons
Or the slack cornerback, any of those guys.
- [112:01]
Danny Heifetz
Well, that's why those guys are the most important guys in modern defense right now. Are the most underrated because that's where the front's. Yeah, it's like the whole all of modern footballs right now is about the B gap, which is a whole different conversation. But the point to your question about why doesn't everyone just do it? Like, why don't you just build the play into the black box? It's hard to teach. Matt Patricia tried to teach stuff and he's like, it's not that easy, so why not there? Sorry. Why can Kubiak do it? Well, his father fucking like invented it. Yeah, like Gibbs, Shanahan and Gary Kubiak.
- [112:27]
Bill Simmons
It's like how I invented the three outs, right?
- [112:29]
Danny Heifetz
Exactly, exactly. But yeah. So his dad like invented the thing.
- [112:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, I like it because it seems like it fucks teams up and Gray. Zabel just seems like he's just a wrecking ball.
- [112:39]
Danny Kelly
Oh my God, he's looked so good.
- [112:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I think it's a lot of guard talk. Like he's replacing Quentin Nelson as the guard.
- [112:45]
Danny Kelly
He might be. He's looked incredible in the preseason. I saw some stat. This is from Ian Harditz.
- [112:50]
Craig Horlbeck
I can't wait for.
- [112:51]
Danny Kelly
The Seahawks were like 30th in yards before contact per carry last year and in the preseason they're like fourth. The run game has really been clicking.
- [113:00]
Bill Simmons
Come on in. I can't wait for him to throw.
- [113:02]
Craig Horlbeck
A backbreaking pick six in the fourth in week one and everyone's like, fuck, he's Sam Darnold again.
- [113:07]
Danny Kelly
Well, I think the other thing to add to what Heifet said about the zone game and Alex Gibbs said this back in the day is like, you don't do other stuff, you just. We're a zone team and I think some teams like to be more multiple than that and it is a way to kind of protect your quarterback and not make them have to throw a back breaking six, pick six or whatever. But yeah, they're going to like run zone bootleg, throw deep. It's going to be fun.
- [113:30]
Bill Simmons
The next category is my rookie nitrous oxide guy. I'm not even sure what that one was, but it was just so we could have Xavier worthy.
- [113:37]
Danny Heifetz
I didn't know what it was.
- [113:38]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. I just picked the fast rookie Thornton on Vegas maybe.
- [113:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, yeah. Deontay Thornton. Yeah, Thompson.
- [113:45]
Bill Simmons
All right, last category. Thornton, who seems like he's their number one receiver. I don't really.
- [113:50]
Danny Heifetz
It's going to be Valdez Scantling. He's going to just stand there and run fast and he'll catch like I like those Scantlant.
- [113:55]
Bill Simmons
He's not watching the ball, by the way. Great guy to have him.
- [113:57]
Danny Heifetz
Madden Thornton.
- [113:59]
Bill Simmons
Straight line guy. Sure.
- [114:00]
Danny Heifetz
Are you playing Madden again?
- [114:02]
Bill Simmons
Depends if my son. I beat him and it drives him crazy and then he throws a tantrum even though he's 17 now. I only play if he wants to play. I just. You never lose it once you have it. The remote.
- [114:14]
Danny Kelly
I'm just like riding a bike.
- [114:15]
Bill Simmons
I'm just kidding. Last category. I know this is good value right now, but I simply don't want to root for him. Guy. It was Aaron Rodgers for me last year. I don't know why anyone would draft Aaron Rodgers this year.
- [114:26]
Craig Horlbeck
No, no. But he's not getting drafted.
- [114:29]
Bill Simmons
I'm going to put him in again.
- [114:32]
Craig Horlbeck
Aaron Rodgers.
- [114:32]
Bill Simmons
But the other person I want to put in is Breeze Hall.
- [114:35]
Craig Horlbeck
Hell, yeah.
- [114:35]
Bill Simmons
God helps with the Braylon Allen stock.
- [114:38]
Craig Horlbeck
Absolutely.
- [114:39]
Bill Simmons
Breeze hall really hurt my feelings last year. Him and Trevor Lawrence, like, just. Just ran a tag team on me.
- [114:47]
Danny Kelly
I'm back.
- [114:47]
Bill Simmons
Like, just the feelings hurt Breeze has.
- [114:49]
Danny Kelly
I'm like, I'm zagging. I'm. I'm all in on Breeze.
- [114:52]
Danny Heifetz
Even though he's going twice. Like a conspiracy theory.
- [114:56]
Craig Horlbeck
I feel like you don't even think he's that good. You're just upset at how much we think he sucks.
- [114:59]
Danny Kelly
Correct.
- [115:00]
Danny Heifetz
He's your Jalen Waddle.
- [115:02]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. He, like, doesn't even hit the right holes in preseason.
- [115:05]
Danny Kelly
Of course he does. He's really good. He's a good player.
- [115:08]
Danny Heifetz
I'm with you on Rodgers. I don't want Rodgers.
- [115:10]
Craig Horlbeck
We're talking about fantasy football. Who's drafting Aaron Rodgers in fantasy football?
- [115:14]
Danny Heifetz
But you know why? My issue with. I don't. Metcalf, Caleb Johnson, all these guys. It's the Roethlisberger Steelers again. So it's like a good value. I don't want to root for him. I don't want to watch Rogers because, like, off the field, he's annoying, but on the field, we saw this thing with Rodgers, what he's doing now, it's the old Rothlisberger. He doesn't want to get hit. So everything's shotgun and it ruins the offense. They can't run the ball because the shotgun does everything worse.
- [115:35]
Craig Horlbeck
Why am I getting.
- [115:37]
Bill Simmons
Doesn't want to get hit at all.
- [115:38]
Craig Horlbeck
All right. The name of this category to watch. The name of this category is I know this is good value. So you're saying you know the Steelers are good value.
- [115:47]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, it's a good point. I don't know the Steelers.
- [115:49]
Bill Simmons
Why are we talking about that?
- [115:50]
Craig Horlbeck
Okay.
- [115:50]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [115:50]
Danny Kelly
Fair, I guess.
- [115:51]
Danny Heifetz
More.
- [115:51]
Bill Simmons
I just wanted to mention them anyway.
- [115:53]
Craig Horlbeck
I was like, I'm trying to make you back into complimenting the Steelers. I'm like, it technically says, I know this is good value. So, yeah, mine is the Saints wide receivers, who in theory are being drafted super late. Chris Olave is good. Rashid Shahid is good. But I'm like. I just. I just. If it's Monday Night Football and it's like Saints, Chargers and I need 20 points out of Chris Olave. And I'm watching Tyler Schuck and Spencer Rattler. I just can't do any of that.
- [116:17]
Bill Simmons
He's a DND guy for me. Chris Olave?
- [116:19]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [116:19]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he's hard to.
- [116:20]
Bill Simmons
Too many concussions. Like, at some point, it's not. It's.
- [116:23]
Craig Horlbeck
It's stupid, and it's stupid. If anyone's going to be throwing hospital balls, it's Taylor Shuck and Rattler.
- [116:27]
Bill Simmons
Jesus. All right, this was fun.
- [116:30]
Danny Heifetz
Did we do 30 categories and not mention our favorite sleepers of the year?
- [116:33]
Bill Simmons
Oh, yeah. That was our last thing. Who's your favorite sleeper of the year?
- [116:35]
Danny Heifetz
Well, I had them for nitrous ox. I just want to mention. I just want to mention Matthew golden for the packers, and I'm a huge fan of him. And I think that there's overlapping reasons why he's fallen through the cracks, but frankly, in a nutshell, most really fast guys don't have any touch or feel like they're like taekwond Thornton's. They're track runners. But Matthew golden, to me, he has tempo, he has feel, he has really good hands. A lot of these fast guys can't catch for shit. You gotta be like a desean Jackson. Like, you know, he's got the video center fielder. I just think Matthew golden has a lot of juice, frankly, but also feel. But then you go to the packers, and I just think people think he's going to be a rotational player. I'm like, yeah, he's going to play for them, like, all the time. Two receiver sets, three receiver sets. I just. I. I am. I. He's one of my favorite players to get.
- [117:15]
Bill Simmons
Who's your sleeper?
- [117:16]
Danny Kelly
Breeze Hall.
- [117:18]
Bill Simmons
Is he really your sleeper?
- [117:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Grow up.
- [117:22]
Danny Kelly
Grow up. Peter Pan Breece, kind of chocolate.
- [117:24]
Danny Heifetz
Breeze hall ranked ahead of Jalen Hurricane.
- [117:25]
Bill Simmons
It's.
- [117:27]
Danny Kelly
Anyway, Ricky Pierso I like. I think that one makes a lot of sense.
- [117:30]
Bill Simmons
He's even a sleeper. I feel like he's awake, having coffee.
- [117:34]
Danny Kelly
You want me to pick something? You want me to pick someone, like, way, way down the list?
- [117:37]
Bill Simmons
People think he's their number one receiver. Yeah.
- [117:39]
Danny Kelly
But he's still not being drafted highly.
- [117:41]
Bill Simmons
He's been shot in a year. Like, he's got to be healthy from that, Right? That was unbelievable that he played after he got shot.
- [117:46]
Danny Heifetz
He was lucky to survive. He shot in the chest.
- [117:48]
Danny Kelly
He was lucky to survive. I'll give you a different one. Damian Pierce, running back for the Texans.
- [117:53]
Bill Simmons
Because under the category of somebody on this team has to get A thousand yards in ten touches.
- [117:58]
Danny Kelly
And he also has a thousand yard season on his resume. I thought he was really good coming out of Florida. He just wasn't a good fit for the wide zone scheme that they ran last year. Basically just was a forgotten man. And I think now they're switching to more gap stuff a little bit better for him. And it sounds like Mixon is not back anytime soon. So I'll throw that out there.
- [118:16]
Bill Simmons
Who's yours?
- [118:17]
Craig Horlbeck
I think it's Tank Bigsby, the running back on Jacksonville.
- [118:19]
Bill Simmons
Like him?
- [118:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. I think what Liam Cohen did for Bucky Irving in Tampa, I think Liam Cohen could do for Tank in Jacksonville. I think he's much more similar to Bucky Irving. What Liam Cohen did to the Bucs running game last year was pretty incredible. And Buck Yerving, his whole thing is yards after contact. He was the best in the league last year at it. Number two is Tank. So I kind of think they have.
- [118:40]
Bill Simmons
Similar profiles I have from the College of Holy Cross, but that's not why I'm taking them on the Carolina Panthers. Jalen Coker, Cokehead.
- [118:47]
Danny Kelly
You're a cokehead.
- [118:48]
Danny Heifetz
He's great.
- [118:49]
Bill Simmons
So I was really invested in him because he was a Holy Cross guy who's actually doing stuff. It's not like we have a lot of football players. He's good.
- [118:57]
Craig Horlbeck
He is good.
- [118:57]
Danny Heifetz
He loves a significantly longer career than Xavier Leguette who they took in the first round.
- [119:01]
Bill Simmons
He was making big plays for them. He was open. Bryce Young trusted him. And now I think people just think it's going to be Ted McMillan's team. And I wouldn't be surprised if he had the most receiving yards on the Panthers.
- [119:13]
Danny Kelly
That's a good one.
- [119:14]
Craig Horlbeck
I think the Panthers just kind of have like a nice cast of guys now. Everybody does a thing. Like I think Leggett as a number two makes way more sense. McMillan is like your classic number one who can get a ton of targets. Coker is like the speedy guy doing a bunch. I just think they kind of are filling out a nice Chuba Hubbard. Yeah, Chuba Hubbard's RB4 offensive line's not bad. Year two with Dave Canales.
- [119:33]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And I was too harsh on Bryce because I did think he had some good moments. I just thought it was notable that. That Richardson's just out of football now.
- [119:41]
Danny Heifetz
But they're not the same Richardson. I know they're not the same Richardson's.
- [119:44]
Bill Simmons
Like Luis Bryce's arrow is pointing up, by the way.
- [119:47]
Danny Heifetz
Literally. Anthony Richardson's completion percentage is lower than shots.
- [119:51]
Danny Kelly
Yeah. I think it's just like the difference. The difference is you can, as a coach, you can trust this guy to run the offense. You want to run more than like, that's why they want Daniel Jones is like, I just trust this guy to run the offense. Yeah, you know, whatever.
- [120:05]
Craig Horlbeck
Ed 209 right from Robocop. He can't go down the stairs.
- [120:14]
Danny Kelly
He can't get in a car.
- [120:16]
Craig Horlbeck
He literally can't go downstairs.
- [120:19]
Bill Simmons
Brace had moments, but, man, he seems so small in some of these games. That's the thing. You can't. Like when you're watching all the TVs and you see the different quarterbacks and then you see him and he just seems.
- [120:29]
Danny Heifetz
Well, that's why they got a McMillan. He's so tall. I can see him. Yeah.
- [120:31]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. All right, guys, this is great. When's our big draft?
- [120:34]
Craig Horlbeck
Monday, 1 o'. Clock.
- [120:36]
Bill Simmons
It's going to be on the ringer fantasy football YouTube channel, One O' Clock Pacific time. It's all. It's. It's a lot of ringer people that people recognize.
- [120:44]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, sure.
- [120:44]
Bill Simmons
We're all going head to head. There's going to be punishments that we talked about on your podcast. I think my favorite. What was the one I came up with the tweet 1.
- [120:52]
Danny Kelly
Rage bait.
- [120:53]
Craig Horlbeck
Rage bait. Go listen to that. If you want to know what that.
- [120:55]
Bill Simmons
Is, go listen to that. I had the punishment idea of one tweet each week, Tuesday at 1 o'.
- [121:01]
Craig Horlbeck
Clock, written by everyone else.
- [121:03]
Bill Simmons
Almost like the Colin Jost, Michael Che thing where you're writing the weekend update joke for somebody else and it's just like a tweet that will make you feel.
- [121:09]
Craig Horlbeck
The funniest thing is that it would be the worst for you because you have like 5 million followers. You have the most to lose.
- [121:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I do probably is.
- [121:17]
Craig Horlbeck
You didn't think it occurred to him.
- [121:18]
Danny Heifetz
He would lose till just now.
- [121:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [121:19]
Danny Kelly
But he also enjoys tweeting rage bait stuff more.
- [121:22]
Bill Simmons
I'm not going to finish last, though.
- [121:24]
Craig Horlbeck
I want to ask.
- [121:24]
Bill Simmons
Dan Lathan's in the league. He's going to finish last.
- [121:26]
Craig Horlbeck
What pick do you want? We're doing Snake. There's 10 teams. What's your ideal pick? Because we're going to do a trivia question to determine the pick.
- [121:36]
Bill Simmons
Oh, interesting. I usually like being near the back so you can get basically like 3, 4 of the top, like 32, 33 range.
- [121:45]
Craig Horlbeck
I think this is a good year actually, to be towards the back of the draft.
- [121:47]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Because I don't. I would. I wouldn't be psyched about any of those running backs. We didn't even talk about Bijan, but, like, I don't know. I don't know. He's on, but I don't want to spend $60 on him. In a fantasy league like you.
- [122:01]
Danny Heifetz
You're probably going to want to do that.
- [122:07]
Craig Horlbeck
This is great. You can have it.
- [122:09]
Danny Kelly
All right. Do you have anything else?
- [122:12]
Bill Simmons
Do I have to.
- [122:14]
Danny Heifetz
You don't have to do anything. But, I mean, he's. He's like, yeah, he's gonna blow your.
- [122:17]
Craig Horlbeck
Mind, like, for how good he is. He's not that famous. He's not that. He doesn't have that Saquon, like, electricity where everyone wants to play him in Madden, he's like the biggest freak I've ever seen, even though he is. But he doesn't really have that.
- [122:30]
Danny Heifetz
I think it's a combo of the Falcons. And then also it's weird that he wants to be an actor. But I will say Saquon himself said like a month ago that the best player at making people Ms. The NFL is B. John Robinson.
- [122:40]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. I mean, he's.
- [122:41]
Bill Simmons
So I'm looking at my future, and it's going to be a future of starting running backs Trayvon Henderson, Braylon Allen and Kenneth Walker, Some sort of running back platoon. And everyone will have a flag next to them at some point. And I'll wonder why I didn't spend more money.
- [122:54]
Craig Horlbeck
A little R.J. harvey. Are you in on him?
- [122:55]
Bill Simmons
I am a little bit in on him. We don't really talk about the Broncos at all.
- [122:59]
Danny Kelly
I'm in on the Broncos.
- [123:00]
Craig Horlbeck
Unfortunately, with the Broncos, like, a month ago, it was, like, cool to be like, I actually think the Broncos could be. Now everybody's.
- [123:05]
Bill Simmons
I'm so. I have so much money in them, too. It's like, now they're the sexy contenders.
- [123:10]
Danny Heifetz
I can't wait for him to spend 22 bucks on Braylon Allen in this draft. And then we're going to be tweeting from his. His profile.
- [123:16]
Bill Simmons
Just like the Yahoo draft, though. That's the booger. I'll just take him in, like, the eighth round.
- [123:21]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, well, yeah, right after I take.
- [123:23]
Bill Simmons
No punishment in the seventh round, which.
- [123:25]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, yeah.
- [123:26]
Craig Horlbeck
If you don't know what we're talking about, you'll have to go. Listen.
- [123:28]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, listen. Thanks. All right. Thank you, guys. Good to see you.
- [123:30]
Danny Heifetz
Thank you, Bill.
- [123:31]
Bill Simmons
Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. And I'm going to be back on Sunday with a brand new pod. And then episode 399 of the Rewatchables Witness. You weren't there for that one.
- [123:42]
Craig Horlbeck
No, I actually haven't watched it yet, but I will watch it.
- [123:44]
Bill Simmons
I think you really would have liked it.
- [123:46]
Craig Horlbeck
I can't believe I haven't seen it for how much I love Harrison Ford.
- [123:48]
Bill Simmons
It's like an incredible Harrison Ford movie.
- [123:49]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [123:50]
Bill Simmons
Anyway, Mallory, it was just the two of us and I can't imagine lines were crossed.
- [123:54]
Danny Heifetz
I assume.
- [123:58]
Bill Simmons
In case you were wondering, they were lines were crossed. Good to see you guys though.
- [124:02]
Craig Horlbeck
Thank you.
- [124:18]
Bill Simmons
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