The Rejuvenated Cowboys, Most Desperate NFL Teams, Lane Kiffin’s LSU Move, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, and Van Lathan

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode: The Rejuvenated Cowboys, Most Desperate NFL Teams, Lane Kiffin’s LSU Move, and Guess the Lines

Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Cousin Sal, Todd McShay, Van Lathan

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Episode Overview

This action-packed episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast focuses on a pivotal NFL weekend, featuring the Dallas Cowboys’ surge, playoff chaos across the league, and which fanbases should truly panic. Bill and Sal break down wild playoff races, debate the most desperate teams, and dissect bizarre coaching moves. The NFL is only the prelude: in a bonus segment, Simmons brings on Todd McShay and Van Lathan for a deep dive into the Lane Kiffin-to-LSU college football bombshell, exploring the fit, fan fallout, and broader CFB ramifications. As always, Simmons and Sal wrap with their signature “Guess the Lines” for Week 14, and close with “Parent Corner.”

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Main Discussion: NFL Week 13 Recap & Analysis

Broncos–Washington Overtime Thriller

[02:46–04:41]

• Simmons and Sal react to Denver’s overtime win over Washington, noting the rare overtime cover without a win.
• Overtime Rules Debate:
  • Simmons: “It felt like they let Denver score so they could get the ball back because there’s no urgency to stop anybody.”
  • Sal: “I don’t like the team choosing defense first… but the forced two-point conversion was exciting.”
• Simmons proposes: “No PATs in overtime. Only touchdowns and two-pointers—would make it more fun.”

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Playoff Chaos & Wild Surprises

[04:41–09:06]

• Bill rattles off the improbable playoff scenarios, including:
  • Bears and Pats potentially tied as #1 seeds (“craziest playoff development” per Sal)
  • AFC South totally up for grabs
  • Chiefs two games behind for a Wild Card
  • 7-10 possibly winning the AFC North
• Announcement: Week 14 “might be the best football weekend of the year.”
• Thanksgiving Games: Sal reflects, “Two weeks ago I was like, oh, my stupid Cowboys ruined this beautiful slate… But last week, Cowboys won, Eagles lost, and the Ravens blew up every teaser.”

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The Rejuvenated Cowboys & the Collapsing Eagles

[06:24–14:33]

• Simmons presses Sal: “America wants to know… are the Cowboys actually good? You have a chance to catch the Eagles!”
• Sal: “I wouldn’t want to play this offense… but emotionally, I’m still pissed they lost to Arizona.”
• Eagles’ woes dissected:
  • Disjointed offense, fan frustration, whispers of benching Hurts, and bizarre mechanical issues.
  • Simmons: “Their defense… seems like it’s gone sideways. Everything just seems disjointed.”
• Discussion of NFC seeding, playoff paths, and wild NFC standings.

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Coach Decisions, Game Blunders, and NFL Trends

[09:11–13:35]

• Simmons rants about the Browns’ abysmal 4th-and-1 decision in bad weather:
  • “That was the dumbest thing we saw today and maybe all season.”
• Sal jokes: “Is it in a coach’s contract to get fired if they punt on 4th and 1?”
• Broader theme: Some teams (Bears, Niners) “getting better” as the season wears on.

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Standout Performances & Notable Moments

[13:02–15:46]

• Bears “bully ball” the Eagles; Ben Johnson goes viral for taking his shirt off.
  • Simmons: “It felt like you could see them in January being a problem.”
  • Sal quips: “Where do you go from taking your shirt off? The pants are expected next.”
• Eagles’ legacy and Hurts’ strange place in QB rankings debated.

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Quarterback Parity: “Who Has the Belt?”

[16:56–21:40]

• Simmons notes QB crown is up for grabs: “It’s like the year Hogan stepped away from WWE… and they didn’t know who to put the belt on. Is it Mahomes? Allen? Burrow?”
• Josh Allen’s “giant child” energy fading.
• Lamar Jackson and Burrow’s fluctuating stocks; Simmons: “Burrow could be the guy to grab it now.”

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Which Fanbase Should Be Most Depressed?

[26:38–29:14]

• Simmons’ poll: Steelers, Ravens, Lions, or Chiefs fans—who has it worst?
  • Sal: “This is easy. The Lions, because they never got over the hump… I’m most disappointed in them.”
  • Todd McShay: “Packers are biting more kneecaps than the Lions.”
• Chiefs’ (relative) struggles put in perspective: “You can point to Super Bowls.”

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Playoff Picture & Tiebreaker Drama

[29:50–32:25]

• Sal and Simmons catalogue the playoff odds treadmill:
  • Ravens (-220), Chiefs (+104), Detroit (+120), Steelers (+250)—all “hanging by a thread.”
• Chiefs lose key tiebreakers; Houston, Jacksonville, Indy, Chargers also discussed.
• Upcoming elimination games previewed.

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Teams on the Rise, Trap Games & Zigzag Patterns

[33:43–41:22]

• Texans defense, Will Anderson, and D’Amico Ryans get major praise.
• Panthers’ shocking win as 10.5-point underdogs—Sal: “Irrationally excited means the door’s about to be slammed on their fingers.”
• Panthers “just the zigzag team”—Simmons: “They might get knocked out, they might knock somebody out.”

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Guess the Lines: Week 14

[51:52–69:46]

• Bill & Sal’s signature picks contest.
• Marquee games:
  • Cowboys-Lions (“loser leaves town” match)
  • Packers-Bears (“could be an NFC title preview”)
• Sal: “Can we get a memorable Bears–Packers game, ever?”
• Sidebar on “fishy lines,” fantasy playoff fever, and trap games galore.

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College Football Blockbuster: Lane Kiffin to LSU

[84:29–110:57]

PANEL: Todd McShay & Van Lathan

The Shocking Kiffin Move

[85:15–87:33]

• Simmons: “I don’t remember this much of a circus in coaching moves outside Brian Kelly.”
• McShay: “College football is the wild west… this is what you love about the game. It’s insanity.”

Behind the Scenes & The Fit at LSU

[87:33–97:30]

• Reports detail the deal was “done” a week before it leaked.
• Kiffin’s star “outgrew” Ole Miss; he has “reinvented himself… now he’s ready to make a run at the greats.”
• LSU offers a bigger NIL war chest and a better foundation.
• Van: “His crazy matches our crazy… It's a perfect culture fit for LSU.”

The Fallout: Players, Staff, and Fanbase

[97:18–108:21]

• Kiffin must now prove he’s a “championship coach, not just a builder.”
• Ole Miss players “seem ready to move on”; notable excitement for new coach.
• Simmons: “Is Lane now the most famous coach in college sports?”
  • Panel: Consensus yes—Kiffin’s move is “LeBron Decision-level” for college football.

Systemic Issues in College Football

[109:48–116:23]

• McShay: “Every coach agrees—until there’s a commissioner or the government steps in, it’s total chaos.”
• NIL and the transfer portal have “turned everyone into mercenaries.”
• Van: “$250K is nothing for a 4-star now; for a quarterback, it’s $1.5M–$2M.”
• Panel laments what’s been lost (“mercenary culture”) but admits the circus aspect is “weirdly beautiful.”

Notable Quotes

• Van Lathan (on LSU hiring Kiffin):
  "The true measure of it is not the length of it. The true measure of it is what you got out of it." — [92:05]
• Todd McShay (on the structure of CFB):
  "College football is always kind of in the seedy area, and it’s kind of what makes it beautiful." — [110:57]
• Bill Simmons (on fan betrayal):
  “Does that happen with him in Ole Miss, where he’s just hated even 45 years from now?” — [101:33]
• Van Lathan (on Kiffin and LSU):
  “His crazy matches our crazy. It’s a culture fit.” — [100:38]

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Parent Corner

[74:01–79:20]

• Sal tells two stories:

  • Cowboys Fandom Drama: His son roots for Dallas, then also cheers for an opposing touchdown because of fantasy football.
    • “At least don’t audibly root for the other team!” — [76:38]
  • Thanksgiving Ribs Disaster: Thanksgiving house guest Brad leaves barbecue sauce and chaos all over a restaurant restroom, then gets Sal’s Uber rating dinged.
    • “At one point, he runs his whole barbecue hand on the wall, which now resembles a crime scene.” — [78:28]

• Simmons shares a story about his dog Murph nearly ruining Thanksgiving by eating an entire tray of cookies and possibly a turkey carcass. Murph miraculously recovers, but not before leaving a surprise somewhere in the house.

• Sal: “Are you sure it wasn’t Brad?” — [82:44]

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Final Thoughts & Teasers

• “Guess the Lines” continues; Simmons maintains a slim overall season lead.
• Hype for next week: “Seven great games, seven meaningful, important, and playoff-worthy games out of 14!”
• Preview of Rewatchables “Rocky II” podcast and upcoming HBO Music Box documentary.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Broncos-Washington Overtime & Overtime Rules: [02:46–04:41]
• Most Desperate NFL Fanbases: [26:38–29:14]
• Cowboys-Lions Thursday Night Preview: [52:04–54:29]
• Lane Kiffin LSU Megablock: [84:29–110:57]
  • Announcement & drama: [85:15–87:33]
  • Behind-the-scenes details: [87:33–97:30]
  • NIL, recruiting & systemic chaos: [97:30–109:48]
• Parent Corner: [74:01–79:20]
• Best Quotes: See section above for in-line timing.

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Tone & Style

• Fast-paced, loose, and conversational—classic Simmons and Sal blend of humor, stats, and banter.
• Deep dives are nuanced and opinionated: no topic too minor (“why do coaches go for it on 4th and 1?”) or too major (“is Lane Kiffin the most famous coach in college sports?”).
• Mixture of sharp analysis, inside jokes, and relatable asides (“We’re never going to agree on tanking, Sal!”).

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For New Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for NFL fans tracking the playoff race, college football devotees, and anyone who loves sharp, funny sports debate. The Kiffin-LSU segment, in particular, is both an inside-baseball scoop fest and a meditation on what college sports has become—and what’s still great about it. The recurring “Guess the Lines” contest continues to be addictive; and “Parent Corner” never fails to deliver laughs.

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Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I have new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We're doing Rocky 2. It is the last one we haven't done. Out of the good ones, we've done Creed, we did Rocky iii First, Rocky 4, Rocky 1, we did Creed. And yet we haven't done Rocky 2 and we saved it for last. It's a complicated movie, a little flawed, very beloved, lots of good stories, a lot of good research coming out of it. This would be a really good podcast. Me, Chris, Ryan, Van Lathan. So that's going to be up Monday night. You can watch it on Spotify, you can listen to it on Spotify, you can listen to it wherever you get your podcast or you can watch it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel, which has all the big picture stuff as well. Coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal and I reacting off of Denver Washington overtime. Denver wins. But pretty fascinating week 13 dating back to Thanksgiving and Black Friday. That set up a lot of playoff stuff with week 14 is going to be the best football weekend of the year. We're talking about everything we noticed, all the winners and losers and then normally that's it. We do guest alliance, Parent Corner and we call it quits. But the Lane Kiffin thing was so interesting this week that I decided to have Todd McShay and Van Lathan on to talk about college football's biggest story. Todd McShay has a podcast with us, has a newsletter with us. Van is on the college football tailgate podcast that we have. But more importantly, it's ringer tailgate, by the way, more importantly is a huge LSU fan. So we talked about everything that went on with that story. So big action packed podcast today. We're gonna take a break, bring in Pearl Jam and then Cousin Sal. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team. So don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting help you need, State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Cousin Sal]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Recording right after Broncos Washington Sunday night, 9 o'.

[Cousin Sal]

Clock.

[Bill Simmons]

We didn't go live tonight. Really fun overtime game. The rare team covers in overtime but doesn't win. Do you like the overtime rules Sal, I, I've asked you this now three times. It felt like they let. It felt like they let Denver score so they could get the ball back because there's no urgency to stop anybody. It's just like, yeah, yeah, run it in. We don't really care. They get the ball back.

[Cousin Sal]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

There's something I don't like about it.

[Cousin Sal]

Well, it's something I don't like either. This is the best we've had it in years. I don't like that. The team. I think, I think Tarico said seven out of the 11 teams that won the coin toss chose to go on defense first. And it's always the same thing. Your defense is exhausted. Remember, you want a Super bowl like that. You won the. You know, you would definitely take the ball. You want to give your defense a little. A few extra minutes and up back almost cost him. I guess it didn't matter. But that's one thing I would do. I don't mind it. I like it forced them to go for two at the end. Right? Because then that was exciting. That gave us an exciting ending because otherwise it's Denver with almost three minutes to get down the field to kick a field goal.

[Bill Simmons]

How about this? No Pats in overtime, just touchdown, two pointers. That's it. Okay. Right. So Denver scores. They go up six. They have to go for two. I think that would have been more fun. Well, that was a big win for Denver. Could be because the Pats are big favorites against the Giants tomorrow though. I think both of us probably like the Giants a little bit as an underdog. But assuming the Pats win will be in a two way tie for the one seed. I'm going to give you a list of craziest playoff developments. We can come back and talk about that game in a second. But would you go at the Pats and Bears are tied for one seeds right now. Would you go. The AFC south is completely wide open with three possible playoff teams. The Chiefs are two games back for a wild card. Your Cowboys have a chance not only to make the playoffs, but to win the NFC East.

[Cousin Sal]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

Or would you go that 7 and 10 might win the AFC north and somehow the Bengals are still alive. Out of those five things, what's the most improbable?

[Cousin Sal]

Bill, they're so close. They really are just so close. I think I'm going to go with the first one and I think Fanduel agrees with me that the Bears being a number one seed and yet they are seventh in the NFC Odds wise to win the conference. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I got some backing there, but they're all really freaky. Really, really stupid year.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's funny. Cause that next week, which we'll do, guess the lines later, week 14, is incredible. It's like the best slate. It's like huge playoff implications. Some teams that, including the Chiefs, who actually have to win now, they can't fuck around anymore. But there was some good stuff this week. Thursday was great. Thursday was probably, I think, the best start to finish Thanksgiving Football Day, unless you were a Ravens fan. But just the first two games were awesome. Usually on the west coast, we're eating during the second game. That game, I didn't even feel like I caught all of it. I'm sure you did. If you're in the east coast, you're watching during the first game. And then Burrow had this magical comeback, threw his hat back in the ring. But can you remember three better Thanksgiving games?

[Cousin Sal]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I was worried.

[Cousin Sal]

It's funny, two weeks ago I was like, oh, my stupid Cowboys ruined this just beautiful slate they put forward for us. And then Cowboys won last week, beat the Eagles, Casey won, and probably in the fourth quarter against the Colts. And like, this was set up perfectly. No, it was. It was great. I wish I had won money. I couldn't celebrate too long from the Cowboys because I had those effing Ravens on a. On a teaser and every teaser. So that was that.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we got to do it. We got to talk about it. America wants to know, what is it the Cowboys are like, good. Like, you might be a real playoff team. You have a chance to catch this. I don't know how you would describe this Eagles team. Their fans hate them. They're an absolute eyesore to watch. Their defense, which we were praising two weeks ago in this podcast, seems like it's gone sideways. I don't understand what's happening with them at all. There was some good videos over the weekend of just like, Jalen hurts mechanic stuff. Quarterback receivers on the. On the wrong pages. They. They just seem like a mess. I thought they're going to fire their offensive coordinator yesterday. They didn't. But. But your team, you have two of the best seven receivers in the league.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, two of the best eight to the best six. Whatever the list is, both of those guys are on.

[Cousin Sal]

I mean, Jefferson, I don't know what these guys do anymore. No, it's. It's. It's great. It's very exciting. I wouldn't want to play this offense if I were Any other team. Right. The defense is coming alive. Quinn and Williams already, like, three times as many pressures as he had with the Jets. Yes. And yet emotionally, I still am pissed at them that they lost to Arizona. You know, like, I'll get over that in, like, three weeks. Um, but I'm, I'm. I'm really pumped about it. It made Thanksgiving fun. The problem is we have another elimination game Thursday against Detroit. Right. And probably maybe for them, too. So do I think it's impossible? I think +650 to win the division would be the route to take. I don't think it's likely. Although I wouldn't mind chasing the team whose fans are calling for Tana McKee to jump in there for Jalen. Hurts, right? I mean, that's a real thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I did wonder at halftime, if he just came out for the second half, how the crowd would have reacted, but I don't think they would have been upset. We have three, nine and three teams in the NFC. We affiliate eight and four. Green Bay at eight, three and one, San Franz at eight and four, and then seven and five, seven and five. Tampa, Detroit, seven and six. Carolina, your team's six, five and one, 10, six and one.

[Cousin Sal]

Did you say San Fran was eight? San Fran's.

[Bill Simmons]

San Fran's nine and four.

[Cousin Sal]

Nine and four, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

10, six and one. Is that what, the seven seed? Maybe, or you have to actually win the division, you think?

[Cousin Sal]

I think I'm looking at San Francisco. They have nine wins. Right. So. And still with the Titans and home for the Bears and Seahawks and at the Colts, I think they get to 11. I think the Seahawks get to 11. They have nine. So then there's one more wild card.

[Bill Simmons]

I can see tennis. San Francisco losing those last three personally, but really, really.

[Cousin Sal]

So just 10 and seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you play the Cleveland game closely today?

[Cousin Sal]

I did. I know you had Cleveland. You were very upset with the coach there. What did he do?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that was the dumbest thing we saw today and maybe all month and maybe all season.

[Cousin Sal]

He's a two time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the weather's horrible. Your offense sucks. You're on your own 33. It's 4th and 1. You have the wind at your back. The wind's about to change. In five minutes, the Niners have done nothing. They've put together no long drives the whole game. Just fucking punt the ball. Punt the ball. Stay up to your defense is awesome. Make your defense make a play. Try to pin them in their own 15 and they freaking go for it. I did not think they Were going to get it. They did not get it because they had to do this new thing, this epidemic that we have now with the tush push, not running it with the quarterback. And it feels like it's a 50% chance it's going to go horribly. How many times does the guy either fumble it or fuck it up or like it just. We went from this play that we were having meetings for to try to figure out we have to stop this. It's ruining football to now. I don't think it's ever going to work. The Eagles finally lost on it on Friday anyway. That was the dumbest thing I saw today or this month.

[Cousin Sal]

That was bad. I almost think. Is it a clause in these coaches contracts where they get fired for punting on 4th and 1 no matter where they are on the field?

[Bill Simmons]

You had to win 25 mile an hour wind.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. And your Defense allowed what, 250 yards? Like it was definitely a winnable game for sure. It wasn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That, that was a field position. Let's not fuck around. We should try to win this game. 11 to 10.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. But also San Francisco takes care. We're talking about their playoff hopes. They kind of just take care of business in those games too. They do.

[Bill Simmons]

They, they, they. You know, they always get the special teams play. But the Browns, they played all the hits, gave up a big kick return. Their punter, punt return guy, he. He muffed one. They had a kick returner after a touchdown. Just catch the ball and go out of bounds on his own six. Haven't seen that all season. So, Stefanski, I'm not positive what this guy brings to the table. I know he won coach of the year, but I know the Browns fans. It's a very polarizing topic with them. I don't understand anything. I watch from that today. But the bigger point is I know the Niners won convincingly, but I thought the Browns really handed them some stuff and I think you can move the ball on them. Purdy was good today. I got to give him credit. I thought he had a good game.

[Cousin Sal]

But it was nifty. He made some good plays and they really like, look, you could love Shador all you want and hope that he's great, but you're going to know how to play him. Right? And so he was thrown underneath a lot. And really the best was him running for 5 yards and sliding on 4th and 26 to end the game. He's like, I'm good.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Gotta stay safe for next week.

[Cousin Sal]

He wasn't a First, second, third or fourth round pick, maybe if you look.

[Bill Simmons]

At the nfc, you have to grab somebody's spot. So unless you take Philly spot, Philly's 8 and 4 and you're. You're a game and a half back.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's got to be. You need.

[Bill Simmons]

You would need either Green Bay or San Francisco to crater. I mean, the Browns go at Green Bay, home, Cleveland, home. Green Bay at San Francisco, home Detroit.

[Cousin Sal]

The brown San Francisco.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sorry, the Bears.

[Cousin Sal]

Oh, the Bears.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe they could go 1 and 4 on those. But I, you know, it feels like they're getting better, not worse.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, I guess statistically we would have wanted the Eagles to win that game. It would have increased our playoff chances. Right. The Bears just staying at eight wins. But I just could. I didn't have an inmate to root for the. Root for the Eagles at all. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Some of these teams last, that's fine.

[Cousin Sal]

I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

Some of these teams getting better as the year goes along because the season is 100 weeks long. Right. The Bears, who were 22nd and DVOA heading to that game and had a bunch of either or wins and just seemed like this year's horseshoe up the ass team. They killed the Eagles.

[Cousin Sal]

They did.

[Bill Simmons]

They absolutely bully balled them, ran the ball down their throats. Caleb did not play well, I didn't think, but he had a couple good scrambles and he made one big touchdown pass. Their defense was good enough, but their offensive line, their running game, like, it's a team that felt very wintry. It felt like you could see them in January being kind of a problem. I thought that was an awesome win. I have a few Bears fans in my life, as do you. And it was the first time that they were like, wow, that was like a real football win. And capped off with our guy Ben Johnson just going nuts in the post game and taking his shirt off.

[Cousin Sal]

It's tough when you take your shirt off because where do you go from there? The pants are expected next.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Cousin Sal]

Like, what's he going to do?

[Bill Simmons]

That would have saved. I personally would have saved it for wild card, but I get it.

[Cousin Sal]

He was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he was excited. Also. Pretty Jack, too. Ben Johnson.

[Cousin Sal]

I know, like, that goes a little.

[Bill Simmons]

Differently if it's Andy Reid. I feel like I'd love to.

[Cousin Sal]

Maybe Andy Reid's jacked. Wouldn't that be the most surprising? Add that to your surprising list. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. They completely bullied them. At the line of scrimmage, especially in the late third or early fourth quarter when you thought the Eagles might be able to get back in it. And then I don't like, like we said, like Hertz. I don't know what's this guy legacy? I like, what is he like? He won two Super Bowls for them. He wasn't a Trent Dilfer type where it was just like along for the ride. But you would also, you would think that'd be enough to include him in the top five quarterbacks. And we never put him in there. It was always been Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar. Right. I don't know what order but it's very strange what how he's going to be remembered.

[Bill Simmons]

There's like a, it's like a lack of urgency slash personality to their offense. And now that Barkley doesn't look like the Barkley from last year, when you watch it, everything just seems really disjointed and you almost want them to go either, you know, up 20 or down 20 for them to actually look like whoever they are. I like when they play with pace. I don't know, they have all these weapons. Like did Goddard play on Friday? I have no idea. It seemed like he might have been out there. I don't even know. Like that guy was a couple years ago we were talking about him as one of the best tight ends.

[Cousin Sal]

I think a lot of these guys were emotional over the John Madden thing which was somehow celebrated on every single game. Everybody had their own trophy. It's good.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean you and I loved Madden.

[Cousin Sal]

Loved them. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think we're all good. We're all good. How many times can we pay tribute these guys? What's going to happen when Barkley dies? Is this what we're gonna do with Barkley?

[Cousin Sal]

Like Saquon? He did. I think it was like week six he died. We haven't. No, Charles, you're talking about he died.

[Bill Simmons]

As a fantasy guy.

[Cousin Sal]

No, I, I know and we did love him. And I even had a better appreciation of him when I watched the Cowboys documentary, how great those calls were. But you're giving These trophies to 24 year olds, 25 year olds who didn't even know Madden and they know the game and that's it, you know? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to make up your Madden story. What's your favorite Madden story? I remember one time the big dog and I were in elevator and he told me to keep my head up.

[Cousin Sal]

Jason Garrett pulled out a turkey leg that he claims he has kept frozen since 1993. I'm calling bullshit on that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I didn't believe that.

[Cousin Sal]

I need proof. Unwrap that thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so the Bears, who I think none of us believed in, they play at Green Bay next week and have a chance to, to put down Philly and Philly and then Green Bay and Green Bay next week. With the way they run the ball, I can't, can't really knock him out.

[Cousin Sal]

Two out of three weeks, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. It's a shame we don't have the playing tournament. Well, I guess we probably not ashamed because it'd be terrible. But if we had the playing tournament like in the NBA, I would really like your team, like, oh, Dallas is a playing team, but watch out if they can get in there.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

They could beat anybody.

[Cousin Sal]

Enjoy it. It starts Thursday against Detroit. That's a playing game. And then the next four are also playing games.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you know what's funny about, about your team and just I was thinking about it today watching Josh Allen because I didn't think he was great today. And then in the second half picked up. But isn't, doesn't, maybe she's just getting older, maybe he's taking some hits. But he had that thing going for a couple years where he seemed like that giant, that kid who was too big for like the 9th grade football game, right. Just wreaking havoc and he's just like, oh man, this isn't fair. This guy's too big for the game. And he kind of played NFL quarterback like that. And I don't feel like he's been as physically imposing this year. And then the second half of the game today against the Steelers, he, he turned it up a little bit, but this was the year I thought he was going to be the guy like we were going to leave this season. But that's the best quarterback in the league. I feel like it's open right now. It's a little, I, I, I'll make an analogy just for you. It's a little like the year when Hogan stepped away from WWE and they didn't. And they was like, ah, Lex Luger. And Lex Luger was the WWF title holder for like 10 months because they didn't really know who to put the belt on. I don't know who has the belt for QB right now. So Mahomes is 6 and 6.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know who is it? I mean, your guy's playing as well as anybody, I think.

[Cousin Sal]

So I, the only thing I'll Caution. We talked about it last week, like the Bills went six and oh down the stretch two years ago to make the playoffs. And that's what put Alan right back up there. Yeah. This is a game where I felt like Pittsburgh could have stayed in there and they. But they kept the Bills hanging around. And then like, I just don't get the Bills thing. Like you like Pittsburgh, as I did because the Bills had two offensive linemen out and the Bills were laying eggs on the road. And then they get. They set a record, a rushing record for opponents in AcuShare and Hines, Three Rivers, whatever. 249 yards with two offensive linemen out. I don't even know what I watched there. I think this Pittsburgh team is done. We talk about the Bills, but I really think they are absolutely done.

[Bill Simmons]

Cook was great. And Pittsburgh, this was the second time in three weeks. The other time was the Chargers game when the quarterback played. Just they had no chance. And whether he should have played or not, Rodgers, I don't know. He fell in that hand once and then it seemed like he was going to leave and come back, but he was a mess the whole game. Rudolph's not much better offensively, they're just impotent. Wasn't always the case. I thought they're going to be able to run the ball in Buffalo.

[Cousin Sal]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And they just couldn't. Then after the game, Rogers was taking shots at some of the receivers, but they're six and six and they're in a death match now with Baltimore and maybe Cincy since he's two back with five to go. And they play. They still get to play Baltimore once they're at Buffalo.

[Cousin Sal]

So that's it for them if they lose. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

So they have to hope Baltimore and Pittsburgh split because Baltimore and Pittsburgh play twice. So Baltimore and Pittsburgh split and then both of them go one and two in the other three games, which I think is really conceivable because Pittsburgh's other three are home. Miami at Detroit at Cleveland. Baltimore is at Cincinnati. Home. New England at Green Bay. And Cincy just has to run the slate. And they play at Buffalo. Home. Baltimore at Miami.

[Cousin Sal]

Home.

[Bill Simmons]

Arizona.

[Cousin Sal]

Home.

[Bill Simmons]

Cleveland. It's doable.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Again at Buffalo. If they don't win that, this is. That doesn't matter if Pittsburgh, Ravens split or what.

[Bill Simmons]

But to go back to my Lex Luger thing, Burrow could be the guy that kind of grabs it down the stretch like, no, actually I'm the best quarterback right now, but I don't know who it is.

[Cousin Sal]

I thought he was great. Burrow and then I looked. Did he seem like he was 24 for 46? That's what he was.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he had that. He had the swagger though, which I think when you've had Jake Browning and 45 year old Joe Flacco for 10 weeks.

[Cousin Sal]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Burrow comes in doing his Joe Burrow stuff and they only, you know, no Higgins. It's really just Chase.

[Cousin Sal]

Even the incompletions, I guess were ones that they go up for and they just didn't come down with. But everything seemed to be on the money and everything seems great. When you're going against Lamar, who I think has seven fantasy points per week over the last three weeks, people are losing their minds.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this goes back to the best quarterback thing. Lamar would have been in that too. And Lamar has looked like, you know, Aaron brooks in the mid-90s in these games. He's. You don't feel like he doesn't move the same way. He's clearly not 100% not on the same. Whatever that offense they run is not, does not fit for whatever his talents are. The Henry thing is interesting. Like he only had 10 carries in that game. I thought they were going to just, you know, bully the Bengals with him and they didn't. I was trying to watch to see if I thought maybe he lost a step or not. I couldn't really tell. But his stats aren't the same.

[Cousin Sal]

He had a thing where every other game he was over 90 yards. And I try to catch him on this. This was the. Every other. And I thought this was okay. He's going to run it through Thursday night. Beautiful. No, you're right. 10 carrots. Like I don't know what that offense. And yet like Fanduel loves them. They're minus 220 to win that division because Pittsburgh is so pathetic. And since he got off to such a late start.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, I think kicked this one away. And maybe they weren't that good to begin with. And I was thinking last year Pittsburgh died as we had hit the last like third of the schedule. Remember they were like 8 and 2 or something. They went backwards.

[Cousin Sal]

But this was really it, right? This is like when Tomlin, when they're yelling, fire Tomlin. And he says, I sympathize with everyone's frustration. Does that mean when you sympathize you agree with them that you should be fired? They have no identity on offense. Rogers, God bless him, he played with broken, you know, bones in his wrist. But then he ends up looking. His face is a mess he looks like he bet against himself to on a strip and then didn't pay his Croatian bookie. Like he just got his ass.

[Bill Simmons]

James Kahn and the gambler. Yeah. Just got beaten up.

[Cousin Sal]

And then you got TJ Watt. Like he has like I think six games or seven games with no pressures. Like you paid these guys a fortune on defense. They really, they just have nothing left.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like they really, really, really blew it with first not taking dart. I think if you do that over again, you take him. But then look, I don't know if Sanders is good, not good, mediocre or whatever, but once we get to the fourth round, that's somebody they probably should have taken. And you know, Mason Rudolph comes out there and you just have no faith in anything with that dude. Well, let's take a break and then I have a depressing question for you. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Hey, Missouri. The wait is finally over. FanDuel Sportsbook live in the Show Me state right now, new customers, you can bet $5 and you get $300 in bonus bets, win or lose. Plus this week only, every customer gets a no sweat bet every day. So even if your bet doesn't hit, you'll get bonus bets back to keep the action going. Download FanDuel today or head to FanDuel.com BS and join the excitement. Missouri, it's time to play your game with FanDuel21+ in President Missouri game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER for new customer offer first online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt for all customer offer opt in require each day refund issued as a non withdrawable bonus bet that expires 7 days after receipt. Max refund $20 restrictions apply including token expirations. See [e-mail]. this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. The NBA cup is back. It's sure to be thrilling as always. I think the one thing I always like with the NBA cup, what team is going to come out of nowhere and kind of plant their flag and make us believe in them going forward? Because a big spotlight, national tv, good crowds. Who's going to kind of step up in the playoff atmosphere? The best moments are served cold, just like big Globe Ultra or freshing beer with only 95 calories plus ultra is also helping you see all the excitement up close and in person. With a chance to win courtside tickets. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobutra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open US Residents 21/ begins on October 1, 2025. Ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. All right, Sal, which fans, which fan base should be the most depressed right now? I'm going to give you Steelers fans, Ravens fans, Lions fans or Chiefs fans. The case for the Steelers is like this is done. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Even if you somehow sneak out the division, what's going to happen? You're going to win multiple playoff games. That's not happening. And then what does your long term future look like? You don't know who your coach is going to be or your QB. Ravens. You had this first half of the 2020s window with Lamar. That felt. You didn't even get to a Super Bowl. I don't even know if you want to keep the coach if you're them. You went all in on this Derek Henry move. Lamar, where is that heading? And did you just miss your window? Lions fans, those last two years were your window. You had all these injuries last year. It didn't happen. And now you just moved into the back of the pack. And I don't know if you're coming. You're leapfrogging, you're probably not even making the playoffs. And then the Chiefs fans, it felt like you were headed for a three peat. Mahomes was in the goat conversation. You're six and six. You're two games behind the last wild card spot. You might miss the playoffs when your guy was healthy the whole year, which has never happened with Brady ever.

[Cousin Sal]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

When at any point of when he was actually Brady.

[Cousin Sal]

I know you like throwing that in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to mention that every time. So who's the most depressed out of those four? Steelers.

[Cousin Sal]

Ravens?

[Bill Simmons]

Lions. Chiefs.

[Cousin Sal]

This is easy for me. I mean, unless you're like a 25 year old Steelers fan, you've had history, you've had. You know I'm going to count that, right? I'm going to count that for the Ravens. You've seen playoff games. The Chiefs, forget it. You've won Super Bowls. If you're saying looking forward, yeah, these teams all, all kind of might be done. But the Lions, the Lions. Cause they never got over the hump. They had the great coach that everybody wanted Dan Campbell, who I'm not sure is the. Is the right fit now anymore. You know, you had the excuse last year where you had like 20 guys on IR. Sixteen of them were on defense. Oh, our defense is going to be back. They were miserable against the packers, just miserable. And you got the two fastest guys on the planet, and you can't figure out how to score 30 points a game. You're stuck with like, 17 midway through the fourth. So I think that they're a head scratcher of a team. I'm most disappointed in them because I had money on their futures. But, yeah, I think. I don't know which one you go with.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Cousin Sal]

I mean, the packers are biting more kneecaps than the Lions, I'll tell you that.

[Bill Simmons]

The Chiefs fans, at least they can point to the Super Bowls and. And you could Talk yourself in 100 excuses. We had Brady seasons like that where the team didn't have it and you just kind of regroup and retool. Ravens fans is a tough one because you never really had your moment with Lamar in the playoffs.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's true. You didn't have one postseason. You're like, well, like even Buffalo, they got close with Allen where Allen actually 13 seconds came. Allen came through with his part, and then the defense blew it. They had things to point to where they'd be like, well, yeah, yeah, but we didn't win, but we at least had this. The Ravens is just like a kick in the nuts every year in the postseason, and now it looks like they're going to win the division by going 8, 9. I think that's pretty ignominious, but I think I agree with you on the Lions fans, because they. It felt like a week ago they were the next hot team, and now it just feels like it's over. And then on top of it, this wunderkind offensive coordinator. Dude, they had that. Sometimes those guys leave and then they suck as head coaches. But it actually seems like he's really good. Right. And that was a big part of your success, which I don't. There's not a lot of parallels for that, where you had this awesome offense and it was, well, who. Who gets it? But then you see him in the Bears, like, doing this with a quarterback that really only completes 47, 48% of his passes.

[Cousin Sal]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And he's just kind of figured out how to keep them good. I think I'd be the most bummed out if I was alliance fan.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. I think the worst move Campbell made this year is admitting that he's calling the plays. Like, all right, man, you got, you got the best in the world. You're calling the plays that should, that should last for more than one week. The success rate. And then. Yeah, you're right. I mean, you lose too many coordinators. That's the problem. But to me, I actually thought the offense, I didn't think Koff was terrible on Thursday. I was disappointed in that defense. They just could not get to him. Like they were ballsy. Ballsy moves by LaFleur. Going for it on 4th and 6 and pretending to go for it and then calling a timeout like, all right.

[Bill Simmons]

They'Re going to kick here.

[Cousin Sal]

I'm like, oh my God, they are going for it. And then they just put the game away. They're like, we don't care. We're better than you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was really worried about them without Kraft, but you know, they, they were getting it done. So to make the playoffs, just to put a bow on this, Ravens are still minus 220 to make the playoffs, which you mentioned Casey was even two hours ago. Now in FanDuel, it's like plus 104. Detroit's plus 120. And the Steelers are not plus 250. And they were in, I mean, think of the position they were in. What were they, four and two or five and one, whatever they were. And the Ravens were one and one and four with limping around. Lamar, like you. They had a three game lead over them.

[Cousin Sal]

You and I needed therapy. They were one in five and fanduel had them as a slight underdog. Like what a. What are we missing here?

[Bill Simmons]

Next time we know, just bet on it. Then you have the Jags - 4:50 to make the playoffs, which I think is insane. I know, I looked at their schedule. I know they have wins, but I still don't trust them. Colts minus 300. Texans minus 140. And. And the Chargers are minus 162. The interesting thing about the Chiefs, I actually think their odds should be a lot worse to make the playoffs. Yeah, because they lost to Jacksonville, the Chargers and Buffalo, three of the teams that they would, you know, potentially be in. Like a two way tie, three way tie, four way tie for the six seed, seven seed, whatever. I don't really see a scenario where they make it unless they run the slate. And even if they run the slate, is that even going to be.

[Cousin Sal]

Enough? It really might not be. And yeah, like you said, they lose those tiebreakers. I mean, we have so many elimination games Next week we have Detroit, Dallas, we have Houston, Casey, which is a night game. Cincinnati will be eliminated if they beat, if they lose to Buffalo, it's a lot of fun. Then you have all that AFC south mess ahead of you. But I think everyone's afraid to bet against the Chiefs, but they know that plus number is insane for them to make the playoffs at this point. It's the way they're.

[Bill Simmons]

Playing. Advanced metrics. Heading into this week they were fifth. Dvoa. Yeah, they're playing two of the best defenses in their last five, Houston and Denver. But both of those are home. Denver might not even care at that point though. Maybe they'll have the division locked up. They'll only care about one versus two. Then they have at Tennessee, at Vegas, which is two easy wins. But you look at their losses, Sal. They've lost to the Chargers, Eagles, Jags, Bill, Bills, Broncos and Cowboys. So six like playoff or borderline playoff teams. And they've only beaten Baltimore, Detroit and Indianapolis. So they're three and six against good teams, which to me is a sign you're not.

[Cousin Sal]

Good. And the one score games, too complete. 180 from last year where I think they went 110 in one score games. They won what was, oh I guess the Colts was a one score game. But aside from that, just loss.

[Bill Simmons]

After loss after loss as opposed to Houston, who's 7 and 5 who didn't have their starting quarterback for three weeks at one point. They have four losses to the Rams, Tampa, Seattle and Denver. Not bad. I mean those are three of the six best teams in the league. And Tampa, but they have wins against now Baltimore, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Houston, Buffalo and Indy. So they played 10 playoff teams basically and they're six and four. And I thought they had a really good win which I want to talk about right now with that Indianapolis game that once again that d' Amico Ryan's, he had another game management thing where they're up for and I don't know, the announcers were like, oh, interesting, he's going for it here. And it's like kick a field goal, you go up seven, you've stopped these guys all game. Daniel Jones can't move these guys. Oh, the analytics say this, it's like read the game sometimes you go up seven, you're probably winning the game. I don't think the Colts are going all the way down the field. All of a sudden they're on their heels. But they ended up, they ended up winning that one. But what you did you watch that whole game because I thought that was the most fascinating.

[Cousin Sal]

Game. You're going to laugh at me. I know you're all over Houston and you saw Houston's promising ending before a lot of us. But Indy was my best bet, like I.

[Bill Simmons]

Thought. Did you know Jones was that compromised.

[Cousin Sal]

Though? Yeah, I thought he was. But I'm like. And then I looked at like Jonathan Taylor's had amazing games against Houston. Like 188 yard game like last year against them, that four over one. Like that's it. They're just going to figure out the. The game.

[Bill Simmons]

Plan.

[Cousin Sal]

I. Although I didn't think it would be that Daniel Jones couldn't take off once ever. Right. I might have gone against it that way. So you had the better team. I got it wrong. Sauce being out early might have made things different. That wasn't great. But. And also it might have been different if the refs recognize what a missed extra point looked like. Our friend Adam Carolla is right. Just extend the post to the moon. Who cares? It's.

[Bill Simmons]

Fine. Some laser beam or something. There's gotta be some way to improve that. So Houston.

[Cousin Sal]

Had. They're definitely not the same without a running.

[Bill Simmons]

Quarterback. Indy had the ball for 25 minutes. They're 3 for 10 on a third down. Houston to close the game out. They have a third and one and a fourth and one. And they do the thing where they just run the ball up the middle. Even though they can't really run the ball when you know they're going to actually run the ball. But then they still snuck the game out. I think Houston's good. Yeah, like when I think about the. I'm in that mode now. Thinking of the Pats playoff opponents, like Houston's a nightmare matchup. Their defense is that Will Anderson is in the running for best defensive player I've watched week to week this.

[Cousin Sal]

Year.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely. You know who's actually in there is Crosby. Crosby's unbelievable in these Raider games. He's like. He's got 10 unbelievable plays during these and nobody else on his team is good. But I'm really afraid of that defense and they can run the ball just enough. Collins is good. The Stroud I'm not a huge fan of, but he'll make a play every once in a while. And really their biggest thing that would worry me if I was a Texans fan is the game management stuff. But I think they're better than seven and.

[Cousin Sal]

Five. I think. If you're the Chiefs this week, would you rather play Houston, Jacksonville or Indianapolis? I think for.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure. My third Choice? I don't.

[Cousin Sal]

Know. Even though they lost to Jacksonville. Definitely Jacksonville, definitely the Colts, who they beat. Whatever. Houston. You don't want to go up and take chances against that defense right.

[Bill Simmons]

Now. Well, it's funny when we talk before the year and we're figuring out the futures, which I don't think we did that well on the 32 over under us, but I think our locks were pretty good this.

[Cousin Sal]

Year. Do you want to know what we are right.

[Bill Simmons]

Now? We're probably somewhere around 500 or a little better, I would.

[Cousin Sal]

Guess. Chris Haynes, a good guy, keeps track for us and that's all he does. He has no job other than to keep track of these stats. Yeah, we're not going to pay him or anything, but you're six and six. I'm seven and five. We both had New England over, Seattle over Washington under, Many under. You had Cincy under in Chicago over. I had Casey and Baltimore under. And.

[Bill Simmons]

Jacksonville. We hit Denver today, Right. Denver was nine and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Oh, okay. So that just went final, right? Yeah. So that one, we both had that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep. But I think of the ones that we liked the most, I think we were on the right side with.

[Cousin Sal]

Those.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Denver Patriots. But the one, the division that we.

[Cousin Sal]

Just. Seattle.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep. Yeah. Seattle was another one in Washington under. I like Chicago. The division we couldn't figure out was that AFC.

[Van Lathan]

South.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. It was like, I don't want to take Houston. Please tell me what other team to take. We hated the other teams. You kind of like.

[Cousin Sal]

Jacksonville. Yeah, that was. That's who I had to win it. I don't know. I. I want to give them more credit than we normally do, but they also have the benefit of having the worst team of maybe of the decade in that division. It's just an automatic two wins against.

[Bill Simmons]

Tennessee.

[Cousin Sal]

Right. I mean, good God. Well, 25, three. Was that the final.

[Bill Simmons]

Today was they took a lead early, which you have to do, and then it just unfolded. Like every Tennessee game this year, except Tennessee never had like the two late touchdowns to make the score respectable. Who if I gave you Cowboy fans, Panther fans or Bengals fans, who should be the most irrationally excited now out of those three? Cowboys, Panthers or.

[Cousin Sal]

Bengals? Irrationally excited means the door is going to get slammed on their.

[Bill Simmons]

Fingers. Just out of your mind Tomorrow morning they're at work. All they're talking about is let it be.

[Cousin Sal]

Panthers. Let it.

[Bill Simmons]

Be. I think it's Panthers.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Let them think they have a chance. That's.

[Bill Simmons]

Fine. Ten and a half point underdogs today at home. You had, you had the Rams in a couple.

[Cousin Sal]

Parts. Yeah. It's funny you pointed it out immediately, like after like the first profile, you're like, oh, the Rams. I know I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty. College football, boxing. There was some NBA. They just fit your profile. Throw it.

[Cousin Sal]

There. You said goodbye to Sal's three team teasers. As soon as Stafford threw that first interception. He didn't look good early. But that defense, immediately, that defense was soft. That was the thing. And, and I. Do you believe. We believe in trap games. Like it's, you know, not enough to skip a three team teaser with them. But they went from Seattle and Tampa at home, big wins to going out east. We saw the Chargers do this in Jacksonville. They got smoked. We should look for this. West coast teams going east, I don't think it's paying off. But Bryce with three touchdown passes and like 164 yards rushing. They out physical. The Rams reminded me of what did Chicago did with Philly the other.

[Bill Simmons]

Day. Bryce was legitimately solid in that game and he's been up and down and there's been referendums on him all year on whether they should extend him. Can he actually be the quarterback? They're just the zigzag team. They're like. We always talk about 70s heavyweights when we talk about these, how we think of these teams. They're like the Ken Norton. They might get knocked out, they might knock somebody out. You just don't know. Week to week. I have no idea what to expect with them. You catch them on the right week. They're pounding the ball with the running game. Bryce is running around. McMillan Looks like that might have been a really good pick for them. Right. I was a little nervous about it, but apparently that was the right one. But yeah, there's seven.

[Cousin Sal]

Insane. Look at their last eight. It just zigzags. It makes no sense that it wins and losses. It really doesn't. But I say irrationally because they're plus 460 to win the division. I think plus 410 to make the playoffs. They're 4 left or 2 against Tampa at New Orleans and versus Seattle. So you expect them to sweep Tampa? I don't think. I don't think it's in the cards.

[Bill Simmons]

There. So their best wins, they beat Dallas, Green Bay and the.

[Van Lathan]

Rams.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus. They lost to New England, Buffalo and the niners. They were 27th at DVOA heading into today. I mean that was the biggest upside of the, of the season. I think there were other bigger point spread ones. Like wasn't we had like a 13 and a half. What was the biggest one this.

[Cousin Sal]

Year? Who was.

[Bill Simmons]

It? It was a bigger point.

[Cousin Sal]

Spread. Buffalo lose to Miami. A.

[Bill Simmons]

Buffalo. Buffalo. Miami, I think might have been.

[Cousin Sal]

Bigger. That.

[Bill Simmons]

Was. But I thought this was the most important upset. It changed the nfc. Like it knocked the Rams down. Now all these teams have a chance for the one seed. It kept the NFC South. Interesting. Cause I assume Tampa is going to beat New Orleans next week. Although she looked good today. Did you see that.

[Cousin Sal]

Game? He did. I really didn't see much of it. I bet him to throw an.

[Bill Simmons]

Interception. He did in that.

[Cousin Sal]

Game. Then I just like turned it aside. I know it was a bad, bad beat. I know they had the two point conversion run back. That was.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad. Carolina just has to stay within a game at Tampa because then they play in week 16 and week.

[Cousin Sal]

18.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So. And then Tampa has Miami in week 17 at Miami, which is no longer an easy.

[Cousin Sal]

Game.

[Bill Simmons]

Nothing. Miami's 5 and 7.

[Cousin Sal]

Though. They're very. They're very weird. Like you almost immediately knew that's how that game was going to go. Like they weren't. They were going to let Arizona back into it. And I guess the best thing that we could say about him is like Bucky Irving's back. Right. So maybe the offense picks up. But Baker does look like Godwin was back.

[Bill Simmons]

Too. Supposedly McMillan's coming back. Baker didn't look 100% to me, but whatever. Stafford's MVP case got a little wobbly today. The Panthers, we were ready to cross them off. Can't cross them.

[Cousin Sal]

Off. I think five teams next week, it's going to be a cross.

[Bill Simmons]

Off. Next week's a cross off. Yeah. New bix I wrote down in my notes for Tampa. I've never seen anyone try harder to host the Shakey's game than Tampa. Even today with Arizona, they were just testing. They were like, we can't beat them too convincingly. We got to let them hang around. What was that? 2017.

[Cousin Sal]

Final. It's so funny. I was thinking that about Houston. I was. I wrote the same thing down. I was like, no one's still in our shaky's game. Not just yet. Cause they were usually the home team. They were the match that might.

[Bill Simmons]

Be too entertaining for the Shakey's.

[Cousin Sal]

Game. Yeah, they might.

[Bill Simmons]

Be. Defense is fun. One thing with the Jags, they got banged up today. They lost their left tackle concussed. So that means he's probably almost definitely not playing next week. Parker Washeda got hurt. I think they're down like five or Six starters now. So even though their odds are pretty good for the playoffs, I'm still a little dubious. They're at Indianapolis. They're playing the jets who've been good now for five weeks for a bad team at Denver, at Indy, home Tennessee. If I had to pick with those odds like a team to short I think I would pick the Jags and the Colts would be second because I thought dimes could have moved.

[Cousin Sal]

Today. Did you say 450 for the.

[Bill Simmons]

Playoffs? For Jackson they're minus 454.

[Cousin Sal]

80. I'm saying. Wow, that's. Wow. Yeah. That's high.

[Bill Simmons]

That's. The other one is the Chargers. Herbert broke his left hand today but apparently he's going to play next.

[Cousin Sal]

Week. He wants so he gets the extra.

[Bill Simmons]

Day. Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. It doesn't bode well for these guys playing with busted up bones like Daniel Jones and, and Aaron Rodgers. But he is a.

[Bill Simmons]

Gamer. Herbert, I had to watch that entire game as did you I'm sure because there's only three late games. Granted we had three Thanksgiving games and a Friday game and then a Sunday night.

[Cousin Sal]

Game.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But it meant that we had to watch Chargers Raiders and they fired their offensive coordinator last week, added a new one. I didn't really notice any difference. It just seemed like when in doubt just try to throw it to Brock Bowers and hope he catches it. The Chargers. The only interesting thing out of that game for me is just Kamani.

[Cousin Sal]

Vidal.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. As a fantasy football playoffs just wild card. Who was it last year? Was it Chubba Chuba.

[Cousin Sal]

Hubbard? Chuba Hubbard, sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He was the wild card last year. It feels like Vidal is going to be the guy.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. He's like a four man's Jameer Gibbs I think at this point. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think he's won that job. Hampton had a setback so that could be the, that could be the one. And then we didn't talk about, we didn't talk about Prosmer. Prosmer must went full the loam. Four turnovers. He was so.

[Cousin Sal]

Close. I, I think you know I like him and I like these guys coming on. I like did research on him and his girlfriend and they met and kind of like oh, this is interesting but it's like a drunk rich dude showing up at a poker game who play and he plays recklessly and you know it from the start. You're like yeah, come on, just sit down. Come on sit down. Let's take your.

[Bill Simmons]

Money. I but that here's my friend Damon.

[Cousin Sal]

Jones. Can you read the back of these.

[Van Lathan]

Cards.

[Cousin Sal]

Good. Neither can I. That pick six was.

[Bill Simmons]

Magical. That was just the play of the.

[Cousin Sal]

Year.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. Was there a better play this.

[Cousin Sal]

Year? I don't know. That was really great. And, you know, you talk about, like, oh, they, they. They used all the good games for Thursday and Friday. That pick six made the whole Sunday worthwhile. And I think we saw, like, four of the best catches we'll ever see today. Just like Bowers and trailing Burks and Nakua and even the interception that the Chargers made on the. On Geno the first.

[Bill Simmons]

Time. Well, I had. I was in a. In the fantasy league that I truly care about, our knockout league, which I haven't won since 2007. And the website has a list of all the champions and 2007's like, there's not people who can serve in the military who were born after I last won. It's really.

[Cousin Sal]

Embarrassing. You've done a lot. You've made thousands of dollars since 2007. It's a long.

[Bill Simmons]

Time. Yeah, well. And I had bad luck this year because I lost Evans and Tyreek, but I was kind of crawling my way back in for a playoff spot, and I really needed the Seahawks defense and Myers today in these late.

[Cousin Sal]

Games. Oh, my.

[Bill Simmons]

God. So every time Brosmer's going back to pass the mic, throw us one. Throw us one. And he. I got a pick six. I got all these sacks. The Seahawks defense in our league had 29 points. We just have a normal scoring.

[Cousin Sal]

League. Myers and the Seahawks must have had 50 for.

[Bill Simmons]

You. Yeah, that 48 points. Myers had 19 points. That's the Seahawks defense at 29. And I beat our friend, the T man, the defending champ, who I think is now out. And he's out because the Seahawks defense and kicker had 48.

[Cousin Sal]

Points. Right. I think he has the.

[Bill Simmons]

Most. See, I'm in the mode. Like, I think a shutout should be like 20 points. There's like five shutouts a.

[Cousin Sal]

Year. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. There are just too many bad quarterbacks, though, to kind of reward it is the other thing, though. I mean, you get a Brosmer in there, it's just a. Just a. Just a gift. But they're your regular defense anyway, right? It's not like you picked them.

[Bill Simmons]

Up. Right. Well, there was an exciting moment at the end. They punted the Seahawks. It's 26 nothing with like a minute left. And they punted and they downed it on the two. I said, come on, just let Rosper, let him cook one more time. He Was really.

[Cousin Sal]

Bad. They're the first team to have two quarterbacks throw a pick six in their first start in the same.

[Bill Simmons]

Year. Is that.

[Cousin Sal]

True? That's very good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep. Jj, I was waiting. I was waiting for an hour for the cut of Justin Jefferson sitting sadly by himself. And they finally gave it. It was a new one. He wasn't even on a bench. He was like sitting in the Gatorade buckets with his helmet off. Just trying to figure out, just trying to deconstruct what's happened in his life. I felt bad for him. I think he's got to fake a calf.

[Cousin Sal]

Strain. He didn't speak for the first time since 2022. After the game they said.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Cause he, he could actually get really hurt with some of these passes that these guys throw. Cause they're sailing them high right into traffic. But I think calf strain, what are they going to do? Like cap strain? Seems like the injury you would.

[Cousin Sal]

Fake.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure. But yeah, no, not that. Because then everyone's so afraid of the Achilles tear. Okay, so we have renew guest alliance. Unless there's anything else you want to.

[Cousin Sal]

Hit. I'm trying to think because we.

[Bill Simmons]

Can hit the other stuff. When we do this, I'm going.

[Cousin Sal]

To say real quick with the jets thing, like the jets beating Atlanta and I just root for your team. Just root for your team. It's good when your team wins. I mean you, you could be a tank tool. I know you're a tank tool in the NBA, but just root for your team. Don't worry about these dumb draft picks. Tom Brady was a six round pick. The Mavs got the number one pick last year in hoops. Tanking doesn't really work. Once in a while you'll get a wemby, but in general, pull for your fricking T. Stop rooting for faceless draft picks. Right. You got 50,000 fans risking pneumonia at MetLife. You root for your team to do good. Aaron Glenn gives a game ball to Nick Folk, who he was a teammate of with Dallas. Ty Taylor's going.

[Bill Simmons]

Nuts. Root for your damn.

[Cousin Sal]

Team. Don't worry about the draft picks. I'm sick of it. Simmons. Don't you clap. You do the same thing. You're a tank.

[Bill Simmons]

Tool. I would have rooted for the jets this year because there's no consensus number one pick. Who am I rooting for? Last year was different. Well, and I think two years ago is different.

[Cousin Sal]

Too. Last year, Cooper flag was consensus.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. And the same for the football. No, I get.

[Cousin Sal]

It. I'm just saying, like it doesn't always work your way anyway. Whatever. Just root for your.

[Bill Simmons]

Team. Listen, we're never going to agree on this. I respect your.

[Cousin Sal]

Position. This seller dweller positioning bullshit. You're a tank tool.

[Bill Simmons]

Simmons. If you want to tank, I have a suggestion. Hire Raheem Morris. He is now 33 and 55. There's only three coaches in the history of football who've done worse with 55 losses. Romeo Cornell was 32 and 63. Walt Keisling was 30 and 55 and Joe Bugle was 25 and 56. He is in the Mount Rushmore of terrible 55 losses and over.

[Todd McShay]

Coaches. Do.

[Cousin Sal]

We. There's no one labeled the tanker, right? We haven't had a coach that we've labeled. There should be a tank. We have a Clapper. We have a, you know, the.

[Bill Simmons]

Dj. Well, the sad thing is they can't tank cause the Rams have their pick, which is like the stealth version of okc. Having the Mavericks pick.

[Cousin Sal]

Or. See what I mean? You see what I mean? Thinking about all this stuff all the time. Just go.

[Bill Simmons]

Out. I'd be thinking about it if I was a Rams fan. That might be like the fifth pick. Listen, it's the same shit every week. They do dumb stuff. They have special teams fuck ups. Today they had another one. Like they always shoot themselves in the foot. If it's a close game at the end, you know they're going to blow it. And you know they're, they're all in with Penx and Cousins and they have no pick next year. And they're. What are they, four and eight now? Three and nine. Something.

[Cousin Sal]

Terrible. Four. Well, that's the other thing that the, the graphics, the Fox and cbs. They have to stop with this. When they do the playoff picture, they'll still have in the hunt. Like in The Hunt. Atlanta 4 and 8. Like San Francisco's 10. What are you hunt? Yeah, and they're in the hunt. Like, like, like I'm in the hunt for Michelle.

[Bill Simmons]

Pfeiffer. You know, garbage cans for me, a.

[Cousin Sal]

Break. Yeah, they're not in the hunt. Leave the graphics guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Alone. We're going to take a break and then talk about a pretty awesome week 14 that includes bears, Packers, Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Jags all for first place. Cowboys, Lions on Thursday Night Football and Texans. Chiefs on Sunday.

[Cousin Sal]

Night. Bill's Bengals. It's all.

[Bill Simmons]

Good. It's all coming next. All right, Sal, guess the lines. You won last week. I'm still winning for the season. I'm up a couple games. You're like the Cowboys you have a puncher's.

[Cousin Sal]

Chance. Let's do.

[Bill Simmons]

It. And speaking of the Cowboys, your team is playing on Thursday night. Yeah, Lions. Cowboys is. This is probably the best Thursday night game we've had for the stakes. Good Thursday night matchups. This one's a great one. Detroit roller coaster ride with Frank Ragnow is going to come back to be their center. And the Lion's room is like, oh, Ragnar's back. And then he failed his physical. So now they have to look at the other center and be like, no, no. We still love you though, right? You're going to do great.

[Cousin Sal]

Buddy. Exactly. Yeah. We're keeping you around. Yeah, I was thinking about that and like how I'm like, oh, my God. That's a good. That's a smart thing to do. Sit out three quarters of the year and come back for when it matters. And then he failed. I mean, I'd hate to say someone's. It's a fake diagnosis, even though we just did that about Justin Jefferson, but you think the league is just like, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this anymore. Come.

[Bill Simmons]

On. Well, it hurts my Aaron Donald case for Aaron Donald coming back in like week 16 just being like, hey, guys, I'm ready. The Lions are going to be favored. It's either going to be two and a half or three. And I'm going to say Lions in Detroit favored by two and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Okay, good. That's what I.

[Bill Simmons]

Said. It is.

[Cousin Sal]

Three. Either one's.

[Bill Simmons]

Fair. I think we did Ringer 107 on a Tuesday. And I love the Cowboys against the Chiefs and we ended up parlaying it with the Eagles money line. I saw that as a pick instead of just taking the points. And I have a lot of.

[Cousin Sal]

Regrets. Same kind of thing. Three points. Although. Although they were home. Yeah. I don't know. The one that scares me, I actually think we have the better team right now. But Dan Campbell hates us so much. He really does just despises the Cowboys. Maybe it doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Matter. I think with these Thursday night games, we just have to remind ourselves over and over again that they don't make sense and they're not an accurate reflection of what would happen on a normal Sunday. Right. So you just got to think of that like, there's a chance where Pickens has 230 yards receiving. There's a. There's a scenario of this game where Gibbs is 15 for 220 and then 3 for 90 receiving and just has like 40 fantasy points. There's a snare where golf just sucks and has the golf face. I'm ready for.

[Cousin Sal]

Anything.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep. I can't wait. It's going to be a great game. So it's a loser leaves town match for sure. No question. Right. If the Lions lose, I think they're.

[Cousin Sal]

Done. Well, they can't catch Detroit, Green Bay, like now, now they. Well, I mean, it wouldn't be a tiebreaker anyway because they have a. They have a tie. An actual.

[Bill Simmons]

Tie. Green.

[Cousin Sal]

Bay. But no.

[Van Lathan]

They.

[Cousin Sal]

They. They can't lose for a while. They're in.

[Bill Simmons]

Trouble. Well, do. Can we safely say nine wins? Nine wins. Nine wins, eight wins, eight, three and one. Nine wins. NFC South, 11 wins is. Is the entry point for a wild card.

[Cousin Sal]

Spot. Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Cousin Sal]

Right? Not all. Not all three, I don't think. I think all three will have to have.

[Bill Simmons]

That. I got Chicago at nine and three, I got Seattle at nine and three, and I have Green Bay at eight, three and one, and San Francisco nine and four. Like it's 11. It's going to be 11.

[Cousin Sal]

Weeks. Yeah. So I guess you're right. Yeah, I've been saying it all. I just didn't. Hadn't heard it like that. I just didn't think. I wasn't sure Detroit was even going to get to 10. Cowboys at Rams, Steelers at Vikings at Bears. It's going to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough. Yeah, maybe it's. Maybe it's not an official loser leaves town match because six losses can still get you.

[Cousin Sal]

There. Sounds better. We'll sell more tickets that.

[Bill Simmons]

Way. If we call it that, maybe we'll make it a. What was the match after the first match in the trilogy? WWE in the 80s, there's steel cage was the third match. First match was.

[Cousin Sal]

Normal. Like a Texas Death match. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is like a Texas Death.

[Cousin Sal]

Match. Yeah. No count out, no disqualifications, Anything.

[Bill Simmons]

Goes. A lot of rumors that John Cena might be on the BS podcast this.

[Cousin Sal]

Week. Is that.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? Yeah, I've never had him. Yeah, it's a.

[Cousin Sal]

Rumor. See, I don't know if you would put that out there if it wasn't going to.

[Bill Simmons]

Happen. Heavy rumors. Heavy rumors. All.

[Cousin Sal]

Right. Kayfabe might be. Look at.

[Bill Simmons]

That Sunday marquee. A lot of good choices. Yeah, but I think it's Packers, Bears for the nf, NFC North. The history of the two teams, the fact that the Bears are actually like, kind of beloved in Chicago after that Eagles win, this might be an NFC title game. Who the fuck knows? It's in Lambeau. And I think this is my favorite game. And I'm putting it right in the Vegas zone. It's in Green Bay. I have packers minus five and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Oh, wow. You nailed it. I said four and a half. Also Vegas zone, but it is five and a half. Good job by.

[Bill Simmons]

You. So where does that end? I think that gets to.

[Cousin Sal]

Six. What did the Eagles line do during the week that ended at seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Straight seven. Yeah. It went up for a.

[Cousin Sal]

Second. Yeah. I think if anything it goes.

[Bill Simmons]

Up. I think it ends up at.

[Cousin Sal]

6. I have a request for these two teams and you could join me in this. Can we have a memorable game? Memorable game. Like this is supposed to be the greatest rivalry in sports or top four. I saw a podcast like Al Michaels and Costas were talking about the best rivalries, and oh, yes, this has to be it. I can't remember two great games out of this. I know they played 200.

[Bill Simmons]

Times. Costas and Michael said Packers, Bears was a great rivalry. There was a famous rivalry. They've had no.

[Cousin Sal]

Games. It was the Red Sox, Yankees. I think they agreed on Red Sox, Yankees, Carolina, Duke, Packers, Bears. And what would the other one.

[Bill Simmons]

Be? Packers.

[Cousin Sal]

Bears. I'm spacing on the easy.

[Bill Simmons]

One. The problem is the NFL has it's. It's changes in like half decade cycles depending on who the quarterbacks are. It's not like when we were.

[Cousin Sal]

Kids. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

But. But when we were kids, like, they were like real rivalries and they never changed. It didn't really matter who the quarterbacks were. Now I feel like it just kind of moves.

[Cousin Sal]

Around. What's your favorite Packer Bear game? I think that was. I think the Monday night game where the guy jumped out of the stands to catch an extra point was a Packers Bear game. Otherwise, I have no. And I know they made it to the NFC championship once. It was Cutler and he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Hurt. Can't be the best rivalry. Roger's shilling the crowd. I remember that. Right. There was a Brett Favre one. Was that who he played after his dad.

[Cousin Sal]

Died? See, I don't even know. It was on the Vikings. I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Know.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. I don't know if it could be best rivalry. It has to be memorable games. It can't just be Army, Navy, God bless. I know they go.

[Bill Simmons]

On. I think the Bears have been good enough over the course of the last 50.

[Cousin Sal]

Years. Like 50 years. That's a.

[Bill Simmons]

Lot. That's 100 games when we were kids and they. We'd only get either two or three games like the Bears were. I never got to see Walter Payton. I'd Barely even. Unless it was a highlight. I never even knew what he.

[Cousin Sal]

Did. That's.

[Bill Simmons]

True. He wasn't on TV for eight years of my life. Three watchables and they're all good ones. Colts at Jacksonville. I think this is going to. I have the Colts favorite. I think this ends up at 3. But I. I went lower than that. I have Colts -2 and a half at.

[Cousin Sal]

Jacksonville. Damn. I went the wrong way. I had the Jags minus one. It's. It's in the tic tac zone. They do have the Colts favor by one and a half. So you get.

[Bill Simmons]

It. The Jags are banged up. This left tackle. If they're not going to be able to block, I do think the Colts could pressure.

[Cousin Sal]

Him. I guess. So this is. We can't bet this.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? We want to bring us out from.

[Cousin Sal]

Dimes. No, nothing. Just stay away from.

[Bill Simmons]

This. And Lawrence, even when they're playing Tennessee and they're inside the 10. I just feel like he's going to throw a pick right. It's like surprising when he completes a.

[Cousin Sal]

Touchdown. Is this two in a row for the Jags? This. They're not going to win. Put a hat trick.

[Bill Simmons]

Together. This has to be one of the biggest home games I've ever had.

[Cousin Sal]

Right? Yeah. Yeah, no.

[Bill Simmons]

Doubt. Ravens home for the Steelers. I put this in the Vegas zone. I have the Ravens by four and a half.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. I add that too. It is six and a.

[Bill Simmons]

Half.

[Cousin Sal]

Oh, And I like them. I like them. On a.

[Bill Simmons]

Teaser. The Ravens or the.

[Cousin Sal]

Steelers? The Ravens. I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Again. Bill, will lamar have another 10 days since that Thursday night.

[Cousin Sal]

Game? You might need 100, but yeah, a 10 is good.

[Bill Simmons]

Enough. What would be the most shocking firing over the next 14 days that you would actually believe? Could I talk you into whoever loses this game, the coach gets dismissed after the game as a.

[Cousin Sal]

Possibility. They can't do.

[Bill Simmons]

That. You.

[Cousin Sal]

Sure? Well, the Steelers don't do that. They don't even fire coaches, let alone the middle of the.

[Bill Simmons]

Year. Or it's announced he's leaving at.

[Todd McShay]

The end of the.

[Cousin Sal]

Year. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. These are like two coaches.

[Cousin Sal]

That. Oh, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Know. I can't say the fan bases are.

[Cousin Sal]

Enthralled. Oh, that's rough. Maybe you firing House was you counting that for giving you bad one zero seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Picks? The House had a good one last week. He saved his.

[Cousin Sal]

Job. He had.

[Bill Simmons]

Packers. Packers pushed the packers hard. Bill's. By the way, I did watch the entire Sunday pregame show today. I know House has this new tech that I hesitate to bring up, but I really enjoy it. House, when, you know it's in a four box, if he gets really excited about a topic somebody else is talking about, he starts like rocking. He starts doing this in his seat, like he can't wait to talk. He's like a little kid. I really enjoy the Sydney pregame show. Have on 29 FanDuel channels across the. Across America. Plus us, for crying out the Ringer YouTube.

[Cousin Sal]

Show. We gave out winners left and right. No, that wasn't. That's not a tick. That's. We had him sit on a custom made toilet. He's still.

[Bill Simmons]

Unloading. Some.

[Cousin Sal]

Thanksgiving. Go to the bathroom Thanksgiving.

[Todd McShay]

It's. It's.

[Cousin Sal]

Rough. It's a rough.

[Bill Simmons]

Weekend. It's great. You think like playing poker with House. He gets a card he likes, he just starts like moving around in his chair. This is a great game. I almost put this in the Sunday marquee. Bill's Bengals. Yeah. In Buffalo. And Joe Burrow. It's just great to have him back. We needed all the. All the fun quarterbacks we could get. I put this in the Vegas zone. Bill's minus five and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Oh, come on. I wanted to steal this from you. I had five and a half also. That's what it is. Oh, it's exactly five and a.

[Bill Simmons]

Half. So we have two Vegas zone games.

[Cousin Sal]

Already. You think that's too high? There's no way you would take the Bills under any.

[Bill Simmons]

Circumstances. I would probably do a version of what I did with the Texans today. The Bengals tees up over the double digit number to 11 and a half. 10 and a half. Somewhere in there. And then. And then move the over down because I think this game will have points. I don't think you can make the over high enough for this.

[Cousin Sal]

Game. They look so good. Cincinnati. They looked really good. They had it all.

[Bill Simmons]

Together. I thought. I thought he was moving great. Yeah, because I thought that would be like a little. Oh, he can't. Didn't matter. Whatever they shot him up with. Kudos to the doctor. Fairly Watchables. I can't believe I put this in the Fairly Watchables, but I'll explain after. Seahawks at Atlanta. Oh, no, I'll make the case after we do the pick. I have the Seahawks favored by four in.

[Cousin Sal]

Atlanta. Oh, wow. You really think it's that watchable? I said seven and a half. It's eight and a.

[Bill Simmons]

Half. Oh.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. Let me make sure. Yeah, eight and a half.

[Bill Simmons]

Man, I was watching either Dead on or within a half point. And then I missed that one. But four and a half points. I thought I was watchable. Seahawks defense against Kirk.

[Cousin Sal]

Cousins. Oh, I see. Oh.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Are you going to win your last regular season fantasy game of the year? Walking.

[Bill Simmons]

Away. I'm just excited for that matchup for a variety of.

[Cousin Sal]

Reasons. I said this morning the Falcons should win a lifetime achievement award for fishy lines. Just. Just let. Just give it to them. Every single. Doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Matter. Fishing.

[Cousin Sal]

Right? Yeah, you're right. Desmond Ritter. Who.

[Bill Simmons]

Cares? This is. This has trap game written all over.

[Cousin Sal]

It.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Next one. Fairly watchable is Buck Saints. The only reason I say this is because I think the Saints are, like, pretty watchable. As a bad team, they can move the ball. I don't mind watching the.

[Cousin Sal]

Saints. I have.

[Bill Simmons]

Exact. So I have the Bucks by eight and a half over the Saints in.

[Cousin Sal]

Tampa. It's seven and a half. All.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. We're tied seven and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. A little.

[Bill Simmons]

Low. And then Rams, Cardinals. Fairly watchable. I don't understand the Brissette thing. He was so terrible for the Patriots last year. He was really awful. And now you watch him and he's pretty confident. And then I remembered that our offensive line was like an F minus. Minus.

[Cousin Sal]

Minus.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. So maybe if he has, like a decent offensive line, it's.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. He found the home. Wilson's good. McBride's great, right? Yeah, he's like a little pro Harrison. I don't know. Not completely sold on his work ethic. I think he had another injury today, but he'll be good.

[Bill Simmons]

Too. Rams in Arizona. I have them favored by eight and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. All right, I got.

[Bill Simmons]

This. It.

[Cousin Sal]

Is. Oh, no. We split it. I had eight. It's seven and a half. I get it. You get it? Yeah. Good, good.

[Bill Simmons]

Good. Poop.

[Cousin Sal]

Factor. You see so many teasers going through your head that you don't want to talk about right.

[Bill Simmons]

Now. But we have a couple themes on buy. By the way, if you're wondering, the listeners, including my team poop factor. Browns, Titans in Cleveland. This is awful, and I can't wait to bet on it. I have Browns in the Vegas zone, minus five and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. No, I said three and it's three and a.

[Bill Simmons]

Half. Oh, that's too.

[Cousin Sal]

Low. You think.

[Bill Simmons]

So? Yeah, I think the Browns defense is good. They just can't fall behind. Once they're behind by like 10, it's the game's.

[Cousin Sal]

Over. You don't think there's any pride like Cam Ward, like F all these people who Are putting Shador ahead of me. You know, I was the first.

[Bill Simmons]

Pick. I mean, he was the first.

[Cousin Sal]

Pick. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to show him why kind of thing. They do suck, though. They are so.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad. Vikings home for the Washington commanders. I would have said three, seven hours ago, but I'm dropping that to two and a half. Minnesota.

[Cousin Sal]

Favored. Oh, I said Washington by one. I think it's Washington by one and a half. Let's see. Oh, yeah. I mean, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Think. Wow. I. I went in a.

[Cousin Sal]

Tailspin. He should be back. Jaden Daniels, right? Really? Wasn't it going to be close to this.

[Bill Simmons]

Week? Why are you bringing him back when you're three and nine? Sit his ass.

[Cousin Sal]

Down. Listen, I like the way they played. I need them to win last today. It's the Cowboys. Like, they played gutty. They played the Eagles twice, so I need them to be tough. What I don't need is. Did you hear Collinsworth and Tirico pronounced Mariota's.

[Bill Simmons]

Name?

[Cousin Sal]

Mariota. Mariota. Mariota for three. I had to turn it off for like a half hour. I couldn't listen to the sound. I'm like, what is this? This is like their. They're showing off for their 8th grade Spanish teacher. He's been Mariota for 12 years in college and everything. Mariota. And then sometimes they'd catch themselves and they'd go back to however everyone else says.

[Bill Simmons]

It. I didn't understand it at all. I was trying to ignore it, but then they kept doing it. So it's Washington favored by 1 1/2 in Minnesota.

[Todd McShay]

Right?

[Cousin Sal]

Jesus. Well, it's Brosmer again, right? Well, he's going to get points.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. I don't think. I mean, Washington's 3 and 9. They're going to be favored on the road. It's.

[Cousin Sal]

Ridiculous. Brosnan could play a hundred games and he won't win.

[Van Lathan]

One. I don't.

[Cousin Sal]

Know. I think that's.

[Bill Simmons]

Fair. What did you. What did you make of the inverted bo. Nick's performance today where instead of being bad for. Instead of being the boot and rally bo, he was. He actually sucked you into thinking he was going to be good for all three hours and then all of a sudden was booting in the fourth quarter, but then rallied in the ot, Right. I didn't know what to make of.

[Cousin Sal]

It. I like it. I mean, I think I had Washington as an upset and I took the points. So that. That was a. It was going to be a miserable way to lose. But he threw his interception. He got it out there, right? What Was that third.

[Bill Simmons]

Quarter? Yeah. When he threw it right to the guy on the other.

[Cousin Sal]

Team. But yeah, we, we needed our friend Hench to win this week to stay alive. And he had no targets with what's his name. Can't forget.

[Bill Simmons]

14. You got knocked out of our Guillotine.

[Cousin Sal]

League. I know. I got knocked out.

[Bill Simmons]

Stinks. So now there's only four.

[Cousin Sal]

Left. Right? You made the final four.

[Bill Simmons]

Left. Lewis has 10 bucks left. I have four bucks left. The other two teams have zero bucks left. Hmm. So Louis can just cherry pick. He can go, I guess five bucks on jsn. So he gets him. So he'd have. He could basically get the top two guys. You have just shoot his wad. Try to do it that way. I love the.

[Cousin Sal]

Guillotine. That's the best. I'm going to miss it. I got to get. I wonder if there's a three week.

[Bill Simmons]

Guillotine. 90% of it. Dolphins at the Jets. Yeah, I. I went between dolphins minus three and dolphins minus three and a half, back and forth for a solid 20 seconds and land. One of those is.

[Cousin Sal]

Right. One of those is exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Landed at Dolphins minus three and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Oh, I said two and a half. It is three. So we.

[Bill Simmons]

Tie. So jets have won three of their last five. And the other two, they kind of hung around for a while.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Ty Tower's the guy, though. I feel like they have life with that guy. Right? Yeah. That offense, at least it fools.

[Bill Simmons]

You on the small TV when you're not really concentrating. Like man. Fields looks pretty good because you can't really see the numbers. That's like, oh, that's Ty.

[Cousin Sal]

Taylor. Yeah. No, they're moving too fast down the field to be.

[Bill Simmons]

Fields. That pass actually went to his receiver. Broncos are at Las Vegas. A truly terrible team. And I have the Broncos favored by eight and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. I said seven and it's seven and a half. So I get that one like.

[Bill Simmons]

This. What's the score? Are you.

[Cousin Sal]

Winning? You can't win this. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 10 to.

[Bill Simmons]

6. You're winning 10 to.

[Cousin Sal]

6.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Jesus. I'm back. I'm the Cowboys. This is.

[Bill Simmons]

What? You're the.

[Cousin Sal]

Cowboys? I wouldn't take Denver. This is the. The 107.

[Bill Simmons]

Game.

[Cousin Sal]

Right. From a few Thursdays.

[Bill Simmons]

Ago. It's going to be really hard not to throw the Broncos money line into five different.

[Cousin Sal]

Bets. And they'll have fans and everything else.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Stupid Sunday night Chiefs home for the Texans. Dare I say a must win game for the.

[Cousin Sal]

Chiefs. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

Game. And maybe also for the Texans, I mean, this really might be the loser leaves town match. I don't think either team could lose.

[Cousin Sal]

This. I think it is. I think this is at night. We're going live after.

[Bill Simmons]

This. Yeah, we're going live. Next week. We'll go live on YouTube. I have chiefs minus.

[Cousin Sal]

Three. You're going to get it. I said four. It was four and a half. It went to three and a half. Well, I guess we split it. We split that. We split. It doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Matter. Monday night. I think that's a really bad. Yeah, that's a bad spot for the Chiefs. I don't like that.

[Cousin Sal]

Defense. They all.

[Bill Simmons]

Are. That defense against the, you know, just hitting the shit out of Kelsey coming at Mahomes, I don't like. Plus they can't really run the ball. I don't like that.

[Cousin Sal]

Spot. I mean, I'm sure they. They'd probably rather play almost every other team.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly. Monday night, Eagles, Chargers in Los Angeles. 60% Philly fans there. Although if you're a Philly fan who lives in la, would you even want to go to that game? I guess. You want to be around other unhappy people. I don't.

[Cousin Sal]

Know. You just want to yell. Just to yell at your own team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You have to start a couple fights in the concourse.

[Cousin Sal]

After. Yeah, just chant for Tanner McKee and then get out of.

[Bill Simmons]

There. I have the Eagles favored by minus two and a.

[Cousin Sal]

Half. Yeah, you're going to get this. I went low. I said one and a half. It is three. All right. That's a win for the good.

[Bill Simmons]

Guys. So we're eight and six for the.

[Cousin Sal]

Season. Eight, six. You still have the.

[Bill Simmons]

Lead.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. All right, I'll take that. I'll take that. I got to look at my schedule the rest of the way.

[Bill Simmons]

But.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. What a game. Seven great games. Seven like meaningful and important and playoff worthy games out of the 14. Pretty.

[Bill Simmons]

Good. Today's parent corner is presented by Uber Eats. Uber Eats that I used twice today. Let's be real. Wouldn't it be game day without a spread of your favorite foods? Pizza, burgers, burritos, you name it. Uber Eats is here to deliver it to you all season long. Or in my case today. A nice salad with a bunch of vegetables in it. I got my own salad. My way. We custom made our salads that came. That was really.

[Cousin Sal]

Good. Yeah, you could eat that in the.

[Bill Simmons]

Sauna. No, I didn't eat the salad in the sauna. Oh, all right. All right. Yeah. Did wear my T shirt in the sauna today. What do you have prepared.

[Cousin Sal]

For. Someone was asking me why you wear the T shirt. It's one thing if you want to wipe your face with the T shirt. If it's okay, you like the way the cloth feels. But why are you wearing it in the sauna? Why don't you just bring it with you? Put on your.

[Bill Simmons]

Mask? I just think it's like, first of all, you always have to think, like, if I'm going to die, how do I want to be found? Like, sauna is a place you could die. At least I have a T shirt. If I'm slumped over, I don't want to be, like, naked from the waist up. See, then if somebody. Somebody comes in, they don't realize I'm there. Like, who.

[Cousin Sal]

Knows? All right, okay. So it kills a couple birds.

[Bill Simmons]

There. Yeah, I like wiping my face with a T shirt. I'm not defending it. I'm not fully. Admit it's probably pretty weird. What do you have for parent.

[Cousin Sal]

Corner? All right, so, you know, it's my favorite weekend. It's the. I'm sure you feel the same way. Everybody's home football, eating, just. And then Friday might even be better than Thursday if you have nothing to do, just veg out, right? And you don't have people. But anyway, we're watching this Cowboys game, and I think I told you a couple weeks ago, I found out from my barber, who cuts everybody's hair in the family, that Harrison, my youngest, is becoming a Cowboys fan. And I went and told him. I was like, you can't do this. I don't want this for you. It's like he found dad's crack vial or something. I don't want you anywhere near this shit. Please don't do it. He's like, no, no, no. I watched a documentary with you. I think I like them. I like the history and I like this. And I'm like, don't do it. I fast forward to Thanksgiving. Chiefs Cowboys was sitting down. He's rooting for Dallas first. Touchdown, Rasheed Rice. And he cheers. And I was like, what the. What the hell was that about? And he's like, well, I have him on my fantasy team. I'm like, you're out. That's it. You can't do that. You're not doing that. He's like, what? I need this. I'm 6 and 6 or whatever. I have to. Well, like, I don't care. You don't root. You at least don't audibly root for the other team. And Archie's yelling at him. He's like, you what? Are you crazy? You don't ever do that. Like. Like, that almost spoiled, like, Thanksgiving. And Jack's laughing because his Steelers don't play until Sunday, and he thinks this is all ridiculous anyway, so that was.

[Van Lathan]

The. That.

[Bill Simmons]

Was. Your kids were deliberately defying you to try to get a reaction out of you on your favorite day of the.

[Cousin Sal]

Year. I finally allowed him to be a Cowboys fan against my better judgment or any judgment. And then he does this where he's rooting for Rasheed Rice. Like, you got to stop this. This is stuff, but this is. Fantasy is the most important thing for kids. Like, it.

[Bill Simmons]

Just. It just.

[Cousin Sal]

Is. That's where we are in life real quick. My fourth son, our friend Brad, stays with me Thanksgiving weekend. So we had him. I know you're laughing already. So he's. He's a lunatic. He comes in just spinning around just like a tornado, and he's making fun of the boys any chance he gets and telling me about 14 documentaries he's watched and makes you feel stupid, like, he's a lunatic. But he's also, like, really smart. You know this. He's well ready. You know, he's like, what about that LA Times article? You think they're gonna lock up that sheriff? I'm like, I don't know. They'll tell you, like, 20 things about him. Like, so anyway, he loves ribs, right? So I. I found this upscale barbecue restaurant in the neighborhood, but you kind of have to dress up, so I gave him, like. Like, clothes he could wear. And my sons, Harrison and Jack, come with us. And I go in there, and he, like. I was like, hey, this is, like, you know, this is kind of a nice place. He's like, all right, all right.

[Bill Simmons]

Now. He's.

[Cousin Sal]

Like. He's giving him pep talk as he's entering the place. He's like, saying, walk like a human being. Walk like a human being. Walk like a human being. He's like, repeating it. The Matron D is like, welcome, sir. So I was like, I just have to sit him down. I have to sit him down in a booth, and he can't be on the outside. He's got to be on the inside. I have it all planned in my head.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? Because you have to trap.

[Cousin Sal]

Him. Yes, exactly. You have to kind of trap him in.

[Bill Simmons]

There. It's like a caged.

[Cousin Sal]

Animal. So he's got the onion strings. He's got about 4,500 calories in his beard before the entrees even hit. And then. Then come the ribs and just a few minutes in, it looks like his. He was dunked headfirst into a vat of sweet baby raised barbecue sauce. Like just like turned upside down and jumped in. So at one point he decides he has to go to the bathroom and he goes to clean up and he goes to the walks to the bathroom and we're watching him and the kids are shaking their heads and he slips on nothing and runs his whole barbecue hand on the wall, which now resembles a crime scene. It looks like there's just blood everywhere. And he's embarrassed and he. I'm not making this up. And he runs into the woman's bathroom. Luckily he figured it out right away. A lot of times he doesn't. And then he came out and so that's the end of this. Like I had to way over tip the waitstaff and then I sent him home today at an Uber at the end of the one o' clock games and I guess there was an incident. I have to look into this now. There was an incident with the Uber driver when I sent him home. Yeah, the guy wouldn't go around the construction and Brad was telling him. So I. I wish you could bet on Fanduel how many points my Uber rating would go down when I put Brad in a sedan for an hour. But I'm saying at least two and a half.

[Bill Simmons]

Points. So that's your second time this year where he's hurt your.

[Cousin Sal]

Uberating. Yeah, I know, I know. I'll never learn. We just never.

[Bill Simmons]

Learn. Anyway, so it's like in the horror movie when the detective comes the next day and they're looking at for blood splatter on the wall and they see a handprint he slipped.

[Cousin Sal]

On. Nothing. It's going all the way down the.

[Bill Simmons]

Wall. What is.

[Todd McShay]

This?

[Cousin Sal]

Wow. I mean circus.

[Bill Simmons]

Clown. Honestly, that sounds like he got away pretty okay. So from a night out with Brad at a Scope barbecue.

[Cousin Sal]

Dinner. Yeah, that's.

[Bill Simmons]

True. We had Thanksgiving. I'm going to tell a story about my son, Murph, my five year old dog. Thanksgiving, biggest day of the year for him. My mom feeds him under the table, food drops, people forget to close the garbage. And at some point it's unclear, but the carcass of the turkey, he might have. Oh no, we're not sure what happened to it. It's just unclear. The garbage was open. It might have been thrown away. He might have gotten to it. What we did know happened for sure, cause I saw it was. My mom makes these. She calls them her Aunt Minnie's cookies. These Italian cookies. They're, like, powdered. She fries them. They're super salty. She probably made, like, 35 of them, and.

[Cousin Sal]

Maybe. That sounds.

[Bill Simmons]

Amazing. We had all these pies and stuff, so there was probably at least 25 left. And I went back in the kitchen to get hot water and lemon Murph's on the counter. There's three cookies left. So now we're like. And we don't know what else he's eaten. And so Thursday night, we're like, he's gonna fucking ruin the whole weekend. This is gonna be his first diarrhea fest in a while. Friday's okay. Friday, nothing really happens. Friday night, the wheels come off. We decide we don't go out. My wife does the thing where it's like, we might have to take him to the vet. He's just lying on the ground, kind of looking at us, really sluggish. She won't eat. And she's like, he ate a bone. He ate something. He ate something. There's turkey. Like, this is bad. This is bad. So he ruins Friday night. Saturday starting to get better. And by Saturday night, he's.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. Did you. Had you taken him in or you did take him.

[Bill Simmons]

In? Never took him in. And by Sunday, he's okay. He's a little happier. And we. We got through it. We got through it unscathed there. So we thought. Because in the. Upstairs in one of the rooms. Oh, just a giant. Giant poop. That. Unclear if it had been there for 48 hours. 24 hours. But it was like, it was a room. He picked a room. Like, he's smarter. It's like veteran savvy. He's like, nobody goes in this room that much. Just dropped one in there, and it was in there. And. Yeah, so it was our first.

[Cousin Sal]

Incident. That's bad. Are you sure? I know you want to blame Murph, but it could have been Brad who wandered into your house.

[Bill Simmons]

Accidentally. It might have been Brad. Today's Parent Corner, presented by UberEats. Get Almost. Almost anything for game day. Like your favorite game day. Foods, drinks, and snacks on Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. Anything else we have to cover? Oh, you know, we're doing Rocky 2 for Rewatchables. It's going up tomorrow night. I don't know how. When was the last time you watched.

[Cousin Sal]

It? You know, I watched it a couple years ago. Is that the slowest of all of them? I don't want you to blow your load.

[Bill Simmons]

Here. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. I don't know if the point was to put us in a coma at the same time Adrian was in.

[Bill Simmons]

It, but it's a very long coma. Really enjoyable, though. I've watched it twice in the past five days. Yeah, really good. And somehow the worst of the first four, but really, really good. So can't wait to take that.

[Cousin Sal]

One. There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Multiple scenes where he's just reading a book to Adrian and, like, in the Stallone voice. And they've just. They're deleted scenes that weren't deleted. They're just in the actual.

[Cousin Sal]

Movie. It wasn't even in the movie. It was like during lunch hour. And they're like, let's roll on this. Let's just pretend this will be funny. The Ringer gambling show. It's greatest. Check it out on YouTube and the FanDuel Sports Network. It's me and Tate and House and the Bundo and Heifetz. Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and then the Ringer pregame show on Sunday. Lots of.

[Bill Simmons]

Fun. All right, great. We're taking a break. We're keeping the podcast going because I got Van lathan and Todd McShay to talk about this crazy Lane Kiffin story, which I guess was not crazy, since most people thought he was.

[Cousin Sal]

Crazy. I can't be. I think I'm supposed to be outraged, but I'm not. I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Know. I kind of want college these days. It's.

[Cousin Sal]

Fine. Like, Kentucky paid their coach $37 million to go away. Kentucky gives a shit. What are they doing? That's just how it.

[Bill Simmons]

Is. All right, we'll pass that point along to the next segment. Sal, good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. All right. I can't remember many times on a Sunday night podcast with cousin Sal that we had to veer off and cover another sport. But this college football story that happened with ole Miss and OSU, we had to bring in Todd McShay and Van Lathan, a giant LSU fan. We'll start with Todd. You saw this coming for a while. You talked about in your pod. But this still felt like one of the craziest weekends we've had in college football, just with a coach switching teams, the whole thing. I don't remember this much of a circus. Is there another.

[Todd McShay]

Example? I mean, I guess Brian Kelly is the closest thing right back in 2021, where they were. They were headed towards the playoff. They wound up. That was only a 14 playoff back then. They had. They were heading towards it. I think they were like 11 and 1 or 10 and 1 at the. @ the time when Marcus Freeman stepped in as the interim and became the full time coach. So kind of similar in a lot of ways. The defensive coach becomes the, the full time coach and someone leaving in a playoff run to, to go to lsu. So there are definitely some similarities there, but I remember at the time, it was unprecedented. I mean, you had to go to comparisons in other sports or at least maybe in the, the NFL to try to get something that was, that was an app to comp, you.

[Bill Simmons]

Know, so, so it's Van's team. So it's just LSU is the one that.

[Todd McShay]

Does this. And the last time they did it, they still have like five and a half years and $54 million to pay off. So. But this is different, man. Like from the family quote when he walked into the, into the basketball arena, Brian Kelly, to some of the recruiting early on, and then the stories that started to surface, it was just never a fit with Brian Kelly. This feels like home. This feels like the right fit. And I know there's just so many layers to peel off in this, but can we just for half a second celebrate the fact that the college football is, I mean, we just had the Lane Kiffin documentary come out and now we have part two unfolding right in front of our eyes. And college football, for all of its imperfections, and it's, it's the wild, wild west right now. Like, this is, this is like what you love about this game.

[Bill Simmons]

It's insanity. What you love is.

[Cousin Sal]

Abject.

[Bill Simmons]

Insanity. Yes. Okay, Van, listen. You could feel it coming for like two weeks. And yet the part where they have this giant playoff and watching a coach leave a team that he just put all this time in to try to put in a position to do well in the playoff, and then he's like, I'll see you guys later. Got a better offer. Good luck. It never sits right to me, but this is one of the reasons why college sports is so fucked up. Van, you've benefited from.

[Van Lathan]

It twice. No, I have yet to benefit from it. Hopefully I'll benefit from it now. I mean, we got the Hodgman Trophy season with Jayden Daniels. So, you know, and Brian Kelly did some things while he was at lsu. You know, it's funny, you start, you get anxious about this stuff, so you reach out to people, people that are there, the people that you know, tons of LSU press, people that I know down there in and around Baton Rouge that cover the sport, and you say, what's going on? And this is like a week ago, week and a half ago, and they say it's done. I'm like, what? They say it's done. Like, Lane Kiffin has agreed to come.

[Todd McShay]

To lsu. Van. Van. I got a text on Friday night, and apparently not to. I gotta be careful. Apparently, there's a text chain going on, right? And on that text chain, there's some people and someone I knew was around it and so on and so forth. I was told on Friday night, like, what. I don't.

[Cousin Sal]

Get.

[Todd McShay]

It. What's. What's the Marty Smith deal? Why. Why is everyone, like, he's had a. He's basically closed on a house like a.

[Van Lathan]

Week ago. Yeah, it.

[Todd McShay]

Was over. It.

[Van Lathan]

Was.

[Todd McShay]

Over. Yeah. And so all of this, this past, you know, 72 hours was about him being able to coach this team, these players through the play. Have your cake and eat it, too. Right? He wanted to coach this team through, but still take this job. And we could get into Kevin Carter and the AD and all that other stuff. But it's. It's shocking to me, as you're alluding to, that the people like, poor Marty Smith, man, he was held hostage in the.

[Van Lathan]

Facilities there. This was his Walter Cronkite moment, though. This was his moment to go down there with the slicker on while the hurricane's in the back and do real news coverage. The thing was, even though people were saying that it was over, it was done, they were still very hesitant to talk about it because of the nature of Lane Kiffin. They were like, we don't know whether or not he is going to hold to the fact that he has already agreed to. To a contract with lsu. They were waiting for the Egg bowl. If, If Ole Miss. They were waiting for the, The. The Iron Bowl. Like, people weren't sure if he was going to stick to his word.

[Todd McShay]

On it. The same people that told me Friday night that it's done and he's. He's got a place, basically, and everyone in his circle knows that he's going to, to lsu. Same people were telling me, you watch. It will not be announced. It will not be official till after that Alabama game because of that. Because the job he wants more than any other job. Watch the hand motions. And I know I've known lane for over 20 years. I'm buds with Lane. We communicate. But if you just watch. As much as he butted heads with Nick at Alabama, he and Saban have a bond and a mutual respect for one another. Even though they drove each other crazy, that was the job he wanted. And so there was still this 1% in him. And no one will ever admit it, especially him. And, and by the way, we have Scott Boris right now. We have to me, like, when you look at the situation with, with Jimmy Sexton in college football, he is.

[Van Lathan]

The.

[Todd McShay]

Faulk. Yeah. David Falk, Scott Horse, Jimmy Sexton's control even.

[Van Lathan]

More so. He has 14 out of the 16 SEC coaches, though. He is the lord of.

[Todd McShay]

College football. Yes, yes. And he's messing around with, with Penn State right now. We can get to that later or another time. But he's messing around with Penn State right now because Penn State let go one of his guys, James Franklin, in a manner that he didn't appreciate. And so now they're, they're kind of sitting back, and every time they go try to hire a coach or get serious with the coach, that coach, who's represented by Sexton, winds up with an extension or winds up going to maybe UCLA or, you know, so it's, it's fascinating to see, but. But I truly believe there was a small percentage of Lane that was like, yep, I'm going lsu, it's done. But what happens if Auburn beats Alabama? Because that thing could fall apart in a hurry with.

[Cousin Sal]

Kalen.

[Bill Simmons]

Deboer. Yeah. See, Van, you're basically. I'm trying to think of the Hollywood.

[Van Lathan]

Relationship parallel. Oh, I got a bunch of them. Like Lori Harvey, if you know who she is. You know, if you date Lori Harvey for a little while, you fall in love, but you know that she's gonna go looking for someone else, be it Warren Beatty. There are a bunch of them. There's so many. But here's the thing, though. Here's the deal. This is the deal with any of these people, any of these relationships. The true measure of it is not the length of it. The true measure of it is what you got out of it. Like, what did you get out of it when you were. The time that you were in the sun dating Madonna, the time that you were in the sun dating Warren Beatty, dating Rihanna dating Lori Harvey. Did your star go up? Did you win a couple of championships? Because that person is leaving. No one thinks that this is a marriage. This is a long term courtship between us and Lane Kiffin. What will we get out of the time that we are together? That's how you have to look.

[Todd McShay]

At that. If you're an lcifan and Ole Miss. People don't want to hear this. Okay? I love Oxford. It's one of my favorite stops on the college football tour. I think it's a beautiful, magical place. I love But I love Archie. I'll give you a couple more before the I love Archie. I love the people there. I love the tailgating, all of it. But Lane outgrew Oxford. His star rose, and it got too big and it got trashed from the Tennessee to the Raiders to he and Nick fighting the FAU and all of it. But he slowly built it back up and he kind of. He reinvented himself through sobriety and hot yoga and remarried to his wife and all those things. And he now knows he's in a place personally where he can go and make a run at being one of the greats. And he took Ole Miss this. You got to remember this 11 win season during the regular season at Ole Miss is the best season in the school's history.

[Van Lathan]

Ever.

[Todd McShay]

Had. Yeah. That they've ever had. 11 win season at LSU is like, okay, really good. But what, like, what's the.

[Cousin Sal]

Payoff.

[Todd McShay]

Now? So. And with that expectation comes support, comes a foundation that Ole Miss just doesn't have. And so I understand it from Lane's perspective. It's just the timing sucks. And honestly, it's college football's calendar that's created all this because you can't wait another month with recruiting, with the nil, with transfer portal and everything going on the calendar so twisted that you have to make decisions like this at the least opportunistic time to.

[Bill Simmons]

Do so. When you say foundation, are you saying they just don't have the same nil war chest or they don't have the prestige? Like, what is missing with the Ole Miss foundation that.

[Todd McShay]

LSU has? I think part of it's prestige. I think part of it is Ole Miss has come up with a war chest. That's. That's, you know, I.

[Van Lathan]

Mean, they. They've.

[Todd McShay]

Been active. Yes, yes. And they. And they had the right people in place that were helping Lane get the players that he wanted. And it was. But it was maxed out there. So if Lane's able to go to LSU and take the money that he had and maybe a little bit more money and the aggressive people around him to help support him, he can turn. He can become at LSU what Nick was at Alabama. I'm not saying that many championships, but that in his mind, I can go to LSU and make a serious run now that I'm in a place personally where I'm seeing things clearer than I ever have before. I'm healthier, I'm like, committed. Everything's in a row. I can now go there and chase what Nick created at Alabama. And.

[Bill Simmons]

That Absolutely. Is his mindset and more talent in.

[Van Lathan]

Louisiana, right? VAN yeah. I'll say this a couple of things. Number one, along with this, LSU has made a commitment to the Nil and to have 20, 25 million dollars a year for him to go out and get the players, right? So he's going to be competitive as far as that concerned. Competitive with most programs in the country. Secondly, is this per capita, I think Louisiana is second or third in terms of players in the NFL right now. It's a very fertile, fertile state for that. And there's not another SEC school in the state. Now, Mississippi is third, but there's a big gap between second and third. Like Louisiana and Georgia are real close, and then Mississippi is third, but there's a gap between Mississippi and Louisiana, and then you have another SEC school in Mississippi. So whereas at Ole Miss, Lane is going to have to dip into the transfer portal every now and again to get players and hope that those players hit. If he can successfully build a wall around Louisiana, he can go out and have the best, most talented athletic teams in the country every single year. Top five schools, top five classes every year. The first thing that he did when he got in town was he met with Lamar Brown, the number one player in the class who's already committed to LSU, who goes to U High. U High is on LSU's campus. It's on the campus of.

[Todd McShay]

The.

[Van Lathan]

School. Right. And the number one player in the state in the country is at that school. So there are advantages that exist at LSU that he wouldn't have had an Ole Miss. I'll say this about Lane Kiffin, though. Lane Kiffin needs to prove that he's a championship coach. Everyone knows that he's a good coach. He's a talented coach. He can see ball, he can call ball, he can build programs. But the reality is now, with the resources that he has, with as many places as he's been, it's time for him to prove that he can.

[Bill Simmons]

Win championships. As the.

[Van Lathan]

Head guy. Yep, as the head guy, not as the guy that's calling your plays. As the head guy. And that happens here. It has to happen now, because LSU is all in with with.

[Todd McShay]

Lane Kiffin. And the thing, too, is Bill, like, just so you understand, because I know you with the NBA and.

[Bill Simmons]

NFL, and I.

[Todd McShay]

Barely understand Trinidad. Trinidad, No, I know, I know. But Trinidad Chambliss, the quarterback that he just won 11 games with, he was a transfer from a Division 2 school. All of his games in the previous couple seasons that he played wasn't didn't, wasn't in front of a crowd if you combined all those crowds as big as an SEC home game. And so he brought him in and he was apparently ranked because I don't, I don't have like the, the transfer portal rankings for, for any position, let alone quarterback, but apparently they have a couple, you know, services that do these rankings. He was like the 260something ranked quarterback and he and Lane found him and brought him in and did this with him in one year. So you think about what he can do at LSU with the type of talent that Van's talking about. And then also like he went from west coast usc, the Pete Carroll, when you think of that like Sarkeesian and Lane and what they did with those like the Matt Leinert and the, and the Sanchez's of the world to that up tempo craze, you know, it's kind of fit his personality to mixing and blending the two with Jackson dart and Jackson Dart early on was that RPO hand the ball off and fast tempo and going. And then as Jackson Dart grew up and got smarter and could understand concepts like morphed those things into more west coast and then he kind of went veered off to the side with Trinidad this year. So not only are you getting a guy who can spot talent and develop talent, you're also getting a guy schematically who actually, and there's very few of them in college football who actually gives you a schematic, you know, upper hand over a lot of other opponents on the offensive side of the.

[Van Lathan]

Ball and who develops talent to where you can see a huge thing that I think the transfer portal and shout out to my man Carter, who power hour lsu, who talked about this, the transfer portal to me has affected the development of a lot of the players in college football because you're bringing in guys who are established and it's taking away reps that other guys are getting that been in your program for a long time, right? So it's shortening the window to develop. These players, Lane's players get better, they develop. You see snap after snap, game after game. These people get better. These players, they develop. They are better football players. They don't regress in weird ways like some of the big players that you've seen in other places, they get it and they continue to get a hold of what it is that he's given them. And I just say something else. His crazy matches are crazy. We insane. We drunk on Saturday in the morning, all day. We New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Opelousis Chalmette Destrehan, West Monroe, Lake Charles, New Iberia. Crazy. And his crazy matches our crazy. It's a.

[Bill Simmons]

Culture fit. It.

[Todd McShay]

Works, man. I don't think it would fit in Alabama. I think it fits perfectly in Baton Rouge. But I'm curious, Bill, because when you called me earlier and asked me, you know, are you around tonight to come on, it seemed like you were. You had an edge about this whole thing, like kind of a little bit. Were you disgusted by it? Like, what was your first reaction to all.

[Bill Simmons]

Of this? No. So when I was like nine years old, the Patriots were really good, the 78 Patriots. We had this coach, Chuck Fairbanks, and he took a job with Colorado, get the last game of the season, heading into the playoffs, and everybody was outraged. They suspended him for the last game. Then he came back and coached the playoff game. We got killed by the Oilers and he just became this pariah that Patriot fans still hate. Like everybody over a certain age. I hate that guy to this day. So I wonder like a. Does that happen with him in Ole Miss where he's just hated even 45 years from now? Feels like it will. Then the.

[Todd McShay]

LSU piece. Did you see the.

[Bill Simmons]

Airport today? Yeah, yeah. It just feels like that's going to be the all time villain.

[Todd McShay]

Status for him and they're right down.

[Bill Simmons]

The highway. Right. Well, then he goes to lsu and it really does feel like this isn't the last stop for him. But I was thinking about it in the context of. It's weird. So LeBron won two straight MVPs, the decision happens and he just vaults to another level of fame. Right? That it was such a polarizing thing. It was such a huge story. Everybody had an opinion on it. Like even like my wife knew that had happened, or my mom, people that didn't follow sports. It feels like this Link Kiffin thing might be like that for college football, which I didn't really think would be possible for a coach. Like a story that crosses over the mainstream. So I guess my question is, does he now vault to this different level? Like, is he the most famous football coach now because.

[Todd McShay]

Of this?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, easily. Right. So then is he more famous than any basketball coach? He's just the most famous college.

[Van Lathan]

Coach now? Yeah, I mean, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Think so. I think he is. Yeah, I think he is.

[Van Lathan]

Too. Yeah. I mean, obviously there are guys that are running it right now. And as far as college basketball, it's an interesting transitional period where a lot of the guys that. Where these institutions are kind of gone now. But yeah, he is this has been a soap opera that has captivated college football fandom for the last month. And it spilled over to where I'm getting texts from all different types of people talking about it now. And, yeah, to be honest with you, Nick Saban came in and transformed LSU football. It's a fact. It's a fact. Grew seeds that are still bearing fruit. But it's hard for me to look at them. It just is because it became a humiliation ritual every November 1st weekend to go in there and get your teeth.

[Bill Simmons]

Stomped.

[Van Lathan]

In. Right. It never goes away. But you're still kind of appreciative. You're still kind of appreciative. You're still, like, we had Nick Saban. Now. The difference is, like, he never delivered them a national championship. Who knows how far Ole Miss football goes. If his legacy and what he started there can continue under Pete golden, maybe it softens the blow a.

[Bill Simmons]

Little bit. Well, Todd, Todd, you remember that was the Pats fans with Parcells. Right. There was a lot of bitterness, and he went to the jets, even when he went to the Cowboys. But at some point, it shifted, and people were like, you know what? He brought football back. He probably saved that. We would have gone to St. Louis if it wasn't for him. I appreciate him, but it was really mad for a little bit. I think this Kiffin thing will probably be a little deeper because odds are Ole Miss is never going to matter like they just did the last.

[Todd McShay]

Couple years. Yeah, they're not going to be hard. Not like this. Not like this. And going back to your question, you got to remember, college football in just the last few years has lost Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh. So you look around like Marcus Freeman, people love and adore him. Lincoln Riley was a big deal, but he went up to usc and surprisingly, it's just not gone well. And so his star has fallen. Kirby Smart. Dabo Sweeney, for a while was just. With all the antics and the. The press conferences and the. The interviews and, you know, the post game was a. Was a big character, but that star.

[Van Lathan]

Has.

[Todd McShay]

Fallen. So. And Kirby Smart's been the most successful coach. And while you can't argue that the success. And even though it was built, it was the foundation is that of.

[Bill Simmons]

Nick.

[Todd McShay]

Saban. Yeah. For whatever reason, he just doesn't carry.

[Bill Simmons]

That cachet. Right. The Oregon coach seems like he has a little bit of crossover name recognition, but not. Not like Link Infinite, I.

[Todd McShay]

Don'T think. Not like. And even, you know, Chip Kelly, when he was. When they were. When they were rolling. People loved Chip or, or despised him. But a lot of fun. And college football, if you look at it right now, is kind of missing that, like, sex appeal for. For like the big names and rival coaches and.

[Bill Simmons]

All that. I think, by the way, so is college basketball. Just FYI, when you said that, it kind of probably the most.

[Van Lathan]

Famous college baske right now, and he's a holdover from a.

[Bill Simmons]

Past era.

[Van Lathan]

Right, Right. And I'm not saying that it won't happen again, but I'm saying right now, you know, it used to be times where you're looking at, you know, Calipar and all of these guys that are on top of it and they had their own little fiefdoms of college basketball. In college football right now, there are a lot of things that are stopping us from getting to the middle of these stories. Right. There's every time two teams play, it's about the playoff, it's about the season. It's a lot. A lot of the cultural clashes is what made the sport special. To me, this story is about a cultural clash and the dominoes that fell around this. How as soon as Lane made his decision, Arkansas has their guy, Florida has their guy, Auburn has their guy. All of that is about how these. I'm as interested in why John Sumrall looked at the Auburn situation and went, can't coach there. Like, can't do it. Like, these are the things that used to undergird the love for the sport and they kind of get washed over. When you're talking about the transfer portal, you're talking about nil. You're talking about so many other things than just which culture is superior, the cultural warfare that is.

[Todd McShay]

College football. I mean, the current system has created a bunch of mercenaries from players to coaches, coach. And they really have, like, it's. It's pay for play and, and everyone's out to kind of get theirs. And quite honestly, Lane was trying to use this current system to. To go against the establishment and Ole Miss and, And from what I understand, there were conversations of, well, I'm just going to take the staff and I'm going to take a bunch of these players with me and they won't play if you don't let me coach. And it didn't really work out that. That's the other part of this Van and Bill, like, someone snuck a phone into that meeting today and.

[Van Lathan]

They got it out and they.

[Todd McShay]

Taped it. And they.

[Van Lathan]

Taped.

[Todd McShay]

It. Yeah. So everyone had to turn their phone in. Someone had a burner phone and someone had it stuffed somewhere where no one knew and taped it when the chancellor and I think the AD spoke to the team, the players, and basically, thank you for everything you've done. You have no idea. Like, you're going to. 15 years from now, we're going to have you on the field 10, 15 years from now, and we're going to be celebrating you. You have brought memories, you.

[Van Lathan]

Have.

[Todd McShay]

Brought. Like. You'll never understand what you have brought to this town, this city of Oxford. But also, we want to let you know you got to keep pushing because. Because we can still make a run at this. And your new head coach is right here. And I was surprised by the level of excitement by.

[Van Lathan]

The players. They.

[Todd McShay]

Went nuts. I think they got to a point where they were just fed up with all of it. And. And so while Lane thought he was going to leverage these players that love him and would. Would die for him, would follow him anywhere they seem to. And it was just one, you know, one meeting. But there were. It wasn't like, hey, you know, it was going crazy. So that part's.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting, too. Let's be honest, guys, this. This could be a.

[Van Lathan]

Sports movie. I keep trying to get you to get into it. I told you that I was about to hit you up. We. Somebody should do this. Cast everyone up and someone should do this. I'll tell you this, though. I'll tell.

[Cousin Sal]

You.

[Van Lathan]

Something. Will. There will be some attrition. Not now. They're in the playoff and they will play after the dust is settled. No question there will be some attrition. The question is who? A lot of people thought Kewan Lacey, Trinidad Chamberlain, all of these guys would end up in purple and gold. I don't know that that'll happen, but there are definitely some people. There have been some decommitments already. There have been some players in Louisiana now who are looking around and.

[Bill Simmons]

They.

[Van Lathan]

Might. Huh. I might have the chance to be neighbors or Brian Thomas Jr. Or Jamar Chase again. I might get a chance to get used like that again with the type of offense that they're playing. And there are definitely going to be guys that play for Ole Miss that feel that way as well. There'll be some attrition. The question is how much and when will they start to trickle out? I don't think it'll be until after they're done in.

[Bill Simmons]

The playoff. I mean, Todd, this is your favorite sport. Is this. Is all this good? What are we ultimately trying to do here as.

[Todd McShay]

A school? Not really, but it kind of. It kind of Feels like we're always in.

[Cousin Sal]

This.

[Todd McShay]

Right? Yeah. You know, like, like, man, things are out of control in college football. Whether it's paying players that, you know, it's not legal or illegal recruiting or. I grew up, my grandfather got me into the sport, got. Gave me an obsession with it. He was a, A quote, unquote, area recruiter for the University of Michigan for Bo Schembechler. Well, I thought that was the coolest thing in the world, but I didn't realize that, like, they were having these secret meetings and like, Beau was coming to the house and no one was supposed to know about it because what my grandfather was doing was, was illegal at the time, probably. And I still don't know exactly how illegal. But this has been going.

[Van Lathan]

On for your grandfather was.

[Todd McShay]

Connor Stallions? No, but before Connor Stallions, apparently. I don't like to think of him that way, but I'm just saying I think, I feel like college football is always kind of in the seedy area and it's kind of what makes.

[Bill Simmons]

It beautiful. Players have been able to at least match the seediness and be like, all right, now we're going to do.

[Todd McShay]

It too. And there's so many negative byproducts of all of this, there's no question. And unfortunately, following them now to the NFL draft and getting the intel from NFL teams that have private investigators and former FBI agents going and hearing the stories of, like, it's hard enough. Marty Schottenheimer had a quote to me once when he was working at espn. He said, the hardest part of evaluating a player, it's not does he have a big arm or does he run fast. It's knowing that you're about to hand this person three things that he's never had before. More money, more fame, and more free time. And it resonated with me. And I'm still 15, 20 years later, still talking about that quote. But now you're doing it. And that was with like a 20, 21, 22 year old. Now you're doing it with like 16, 17, 18 year olds. And to hear some of the stories going on. So at some point college football has to have a commissioner. They've got to have a governing body that actually governs over the sport and can. But I don't know when that's ever going to happen. It's going to. And I've talked to so many head coaches and people in power like, like the highest up people in power, and they all agree on one thing. It will take the government stepping in and Forcing it on college football before because there's too much money to be had right now. Too many people that are in power are benefiting from.

[Bill Simmons]

It financially. Well, you. You talk about the 15, 16, 17 year olds. You also have this whole class of kind of. Kind of like lower level agents.

[Todd McShay]

Manager.

[Bill Simmons]

Handler. Yes. Deal maker. People who have no experience whatsoever, who were super sleazy. I feel like that's where it's gonna go the.

[Van Lathan]

Most sideways. You know what it used to be? It used to be that 40,000 or $50,000 was a lot of money. That would really talk. 40 grand. 50 grand. You come work on the staff. Well, you get a car, put you on staff. Not even. Put you on staff at the college. Put you on staff at the local high school. Put your uncle on staff. Let him call some plays at a dealership.

[Todd McShay]

Or something.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, dealership. Get him all of that stuff. That doesn't move the.

[Todd McShay]

Needle.

[Van Lathan]

Anymore. No. We need $250,000 and $250,000 and I'm a four star. I'm a four star safety. That's not. If you want a quarterback, That's a mill five, baby. That's 2 million. It's different. Things are different. And as we adjust to it, there are some bodies that are being left behind. Like right now, I love lsu. It's in my blood. Walked around the campus when I was three years old. Like my mom went there, all of that stuff. Right. But I do feel for the Ole Miss fans. I feel for what it must be like to be having the greatest season in the history of your school, then lose your identity, which is what Lane Kiffin was for Ole Miss before you go and get a chance to make a run. And so I do feel for that. But honestly, it's like. It's the wire, man. It's.

[Cousin Sal]

Cold.

[Bill Simmons]

Outside. Yeah. I was gonna say, I've known you a long time. You don't feel bad at all. I don't know who.

[Van Lathan]

You'Re kidding. Look, it's a cold game. I've been there. Like, it's a cold game, man. The thing about the old days is they. The old days. That's the thing about them. We in the new day now, and it's kind of getting where you fit in. This is the way.

[Bill Simmons]

It goes. So, Todd, what school is the most bummed out that this happened? Other than Ole.

[Todd McShay]

Miss? Alabama? Florida. Because for sure, I mean, Layla, his own wife, went there. His wife's father was a star quarterback at Florida and went on to play for the Buccaneers. I think.

[Bill Simmons]

It was. They, they. They thought it was.

[Todd McShay]

He would. If he's leaving Ole Miss, he's.

[Van Lathan]

Going there.

[Bill Simmons]

They got. So why not Florida? Like, why. Why would he pull the trigger on the OSU pick and.

[Todd McShay]

Not wait? I think, I think if you study both programs, there's. At Florida, there's a little bit more chaos, more bureaucracy. It's.

[Van Lathan]

Been disjointed. Ad, Todd.

[Todd McShay]

Terrible ad. Yeah, you get to.

[Van Lathan]

Say it. I hate to say terrible. Strickland is one of the worst ads they've. They won. They got a terrible ad. A terrible ad. A guy who can't seem to make the right decisions about anything. It probably spooked a lot of coaches, to be honest.

[Bill Simmons]

With you. Worse than the Syracuse AD who didn't hire Bob Chesney. Little stealth joke for Todd two years ago. Todd remembers, and there's some layers. We might have work once. He couldn't do that.

[Van Lathan]

Job either. Also, Saban's influence might have pushed him to LSU just a tad.

[Todd McShay]

Bit, maybe. Two people that were most influential on this were Nick Saban and Pete Carroll. And Pete wouldn't, Pete would just. Pete's point to him was, you did what you were supposed to do at Ole Miss. They'll wind up appreciating you, the players will wind up appreciating you. But it's time for you to go to level up, and you've earned the right to level up through all of everything you've been through. Go take it. Nick's message might have been what you're.

[Bill Simmons]

Talking about. VAN Todd, you made the key point earlier. The way the system's set up, maybe there's no way that this could be graceful.

[Todd McShay]

Like, for. There was no way forward for.

[Bill Simmons]

Going forward. There's no way this can actually happen in a good way. You'd have to be out of the.

[Todd McShay]

Playoff race. The only, the only people who are affected by this that I actually care about are the players. And listening to that team meeting, maybe they're not as affected as.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought. I'm going to be rooting for.

[Todd McShay]

Them, though. Oh.

[Bill Simmons]

Me too. Let's have the sports movie actually happen. VAN yeah. You're doing an unbelievable job of pretending you're not, like, absolutely euphoric right now. I just want to give you a lot of time in.

[Van Lathan]

A while. So two things. Number one, I'm glad we got our guy. I'm glad we got the coach that we wanted. Number two, if I wanted to be, I could be such a dickhead about this, but I'm choosing if I Wanted to be. Because if you. Some of the. Some of the texting calls and I'm getting this. I didn't know we had it like that. We went right over into the next station and took.

[Cousin Sal]

Your.

[Van Lathan]

Girl. Wow. You guys was about to get married. I mean, you guys are literally planning a wedding. And we went.

[Todd McShay]

Over here. This is.

[Van Lathan]

Cold blooded. And we said, we got a bigger house, we got a better car. We gotta like you come over here and get with us. If I wanted to, I could be a dickhead about it, but I care too much about the sport. I really love college football and I know the fandom that people have, and I've been up there to Ole Miss. They're a decent fan history aside, and I don't have any problem with them. And I know this must hurt. I know this must hurt. Plus the karma and the energy thing is always a big thing for me, but.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm happy. Hey, the.

[Van Lathan]

Karma rules. Yeah, like, I'm happy that LSU got their guy, but God damn, that gotta suck, man, that has to.

[Bill Simmons]

Be tough. Well, you know who the last honest, loyal man in college football was? Drake May. Could have left. Could have left for his last year, jumped to a better program, done it for him. You know what he did? He stayed in North Carolina. An inferior team. Not a great coaching situation because he's a loyal guy. Todd McShay. He's.

[Todd McShay]

Built different. And now he's got a playoff run with no left tackle. So here.

[Bill Simmons]

We are. All right, so, Todd, you're covering more of this on your.

[Todd McShay]

Podcast tomorrow.

[Cousin Sal]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Tomorrow. We're. Tomorrow morning. It'll be up late morning. And. And I've got, I got more on this. I got a lot more in Penn State this whole. So I don't think until this, I really, I mean, I knew that Jimmy Sexton had 14 of 16, you know, SEC coaches and he was powerful. I think this last six, eight weeks has shown us that he literally is the most powerful man in college football. And he is. He is pulling every string. And if you're a Penn State fan, that is a scary thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Right now. And then, Van, you're covering more on.

[Van Lathan]

Ringer Tailgate. That's what we're doing on Ring or Tailgate on Wednesday. We're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton. Yeah, we're doing a deep dive into Jimmy Sexton on Ringer Tailgate. Because I don't know, you guys would know better than I would if there's any singular sports figure right now. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys Clutch has the ringer now. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys. I guess Clutch has a lot of guys, but I don't know if there's any one specific figure in any one specific sport from the business side, honestly. You could talk about Boris, you could talk about David Falk. He's on that level. But on a crazy level, even on the broadcast, you can hear the guys on the broadcast, Jimmy Sexton clients talking in a Jimmy Sexton language. It's interesting. It's interesting. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm just saying to have a player like that in your sport, it just changes the.

[Bill Simmons]

Dynamics completely. Boris felt like he had that going not recently, but maybe like, what, 10, 12.

[Todd McShay]

Years ago. Yeah, it felt like.

[Bill Simmons]

When it. It felt like he just had everybody for three, four years. But, yeah, I mean, this would be the right sport to do it because it's the wild, wild West. All right, ban on ringer tailgate Wednesday, Todd McShay tomorrow. Plus Todd's newsletter, which.

[Van Lathan]

Is essential.

[Bill Simmons]

Love it.

[Cousin Sal]

Go.

[Bill Simmons]

Pats. Thanks. Thanks for.

[Van Lathan]

Coming on. Dan got me a newsletter. I've been looking at the newsletter. Shout out.

[Todd McShay]

To Dan. I.

[Bill Simmons]

Love it.

[Van Lathan]

Thanks, guys.

[Todd McShay]

No problem. See.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Van and McShay and Gahal and Eduardo. Don't forget rewatchables on Monday night, Rocky 2 and Music Box series actually coming back on HBO and HBO Max on Thursday night with a Jeff Buckley documentary. That is fantastic. So I'll talk more about that on Tuesday, but just want to give you a little heads up. Thursday night we have an awesome football game and you also have a really good documentary to watch. So I will see you on this feed on Tuesday. Must be 21 plus on President, select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus on President in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. GAM problem. Call 100 Gambler, visit rg-help.com, call 888-79777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or MDG in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.