The Rockets' Rise and NBA League Pass Rankings With Zach Lowe, Plus Week 11 NFL Picks With Joe House

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode: “The Rockets' Rise and NBA League Pass Rankings With Zach Lowe, Plus Week 11 NFL Picks With Joe House”

Date: November 21, 2025

Guests: Zach Lowe, Joe House

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Overview

In this action-packed episode, Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN’s Zach Lowe for a deep, in-person conversation focused on the first six weeks of the NBA, highlighted by an updated League Pass Rankings draft and a special spotlight on the surging Houston Rockets. The pair break down why some teams are must-watch and get granular with trends, player development, and team chemistry, particularly in Houston, Detroit, and San Antonio. The episode also includes NFL Week 11 Picks with Joe House and a sidebar discussion of the Ringer Top 100 NBA players. The tone is fast-paced, insightful, occasionally irreverent, loaded with NBA nerdery and Simmons' signature banter.

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Episode Breakdown

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1. Opening and Setup

(Ad reads and intros skipped. Content begins at 03:08)

• Location Note: Bill Simmons is recording from New York City; Zach Lowe traveled via two trains (“Metro North to subway” - 03:08).
• Banter on train rides, being recognized in NYC, and Knicks vs. Nets energy (“Meeting a Nets fan, even in New York, is only slightly more common than meeting, like, a Magic fan in New York. It's that bad.” - Lowe, 03:38).
• Brief digression on the deadness of the Barclays Center for Nets games versus Liberty games (“Liberty games are awesome. The Liberty games are live.” - Lowe, 04:43).

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2. League Pass Rankings – The Draft

(Main NBA segment starts at 05:17)

Premise

• Bill and Zach run a draft: if all 30 NBA teams played at once, and you had one game to pick on League Pass, which teams are most watchable and why?
• The focus is not pure power rankings, but a blend of fun, curiosity, stylistic intrigue, and narrative drama.

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Top Picks & Deep Dives

1. Denver Nuggets

• Zach takes Denver #1, citing Jokic’s genius:

  “The Jokic stuff just gets crazy…Did you see the one handed, underhand off the Backboard floater? It was very Larry Bird – like, I'm so fucking bored.” (Lowe, 06:56)

• Bill credits their depth and overall entertainment, especially Jokic and Murray’s form.

2. Houston Rockets (CONTENT SPOTLIGHT: Main thematic focus of the episode)

• Bill’s pick; expresses unprecedented excitement for watching the Rockets.
• “Most fun I've had watching Kevin Durant play basketball since 2017, since year one Warriors.” (Simmons, 11:34)
• Rockets’ evolution:
  • #1 offense in the league
  • 41% offensive rebounding rate (“unheard of…They're Absolutely gigantic.” - Lowe, 13:07)
  • Sengun’s breakout as an all-around offensive creator (“A seven footer who can get the ball at the top of the arc and just dribble all the way into a hook shot…that’s pretty rare” - Lowe, 13:21)
  • Kevin Durant’s role as a “big brother” mentor to Jabari Smith Jr. and Reed Sheppard
• Team described as “a competitive, physical nightmare” (Simmons, 18:41)
• Ime Udoka’s impact is praised for instilling toughness:

  “Talk about a team built in his image of like, I just wanna kick your ass.” (Lowe, 22:50)

• Chemistry and body language: Top tier
• Quote:

  “I think they have great chemistry. I haven't seen Durant on a team like this.” (Simmons, 17:31)

3. San Antonio Spurs

• Picked next, with focus on Wembanyama’s “can’t miss” factor, even as he deals with a calf injury.
• Discussion of “accelerating” their rebuild and managing tall-player injury risk (“Assume an eight to 12 year career and not anything more than that. You hear it is all I'm saying.” – Lowe, 09:33).
• Even without Wemby, team is a compelling watch due to youth and promise.
• “It's hard to miss a Wemby game because four ridiculous things are gonna happen in every single game.” (Lowe, 28:08)

4. Detroit Pistons

• Bill’s hot take; “They're like a hockey team where they might mix it up. It might be like…a third line brawl in the third period in a 5, 2 game.” (Simmons, 37:40)
• Jalen Duren’s all-star leap, Cade Cunningham’s growth, and gritty, physical play flagged as reasons for high ranking.
• Ongoing debate: Should they make a big trade to advance their timetable?

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Other Notable Team Picks and Takes

• Lakers: Picked by Lowe, citing fascination with how LeBron fits with this iteration, Austin Reaves’ surprising numbers, and the “good theater” of big-market drama (38:42).
• Charlotte Hornets: Bill plants his flag on “enjoying bad teams,” loving rookie Knippel and the broadcast stylings of Eric Collins (“Eric Collins had the broadcasting performance of the year” – Simmons, 45:02).
• Golden State Warriors: Still ranked high, but increasingly frustrating and facing a low ceiling. (“It was a fun 10 days though [for Kumingaa]” Simmons, 46:27).
• Chicago Bulls: “They’re a boxer that has great fights with everybody else…great time, great hang.” (Simmons, 50:23)
• Knicks: Pressure, broadcast quality, and the ongoing “Tibbs fired pressure” keeps them fun (54:12).
• Atlanta Hawks: Bill especially likes the version “without Trae Young” for the collective defensive energy and role players (55:11).

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3. Subplots & Sidebar: Ringer NBA Top 100 & Individual Talent Leaps

(63:21 onward)

• Bill and Zach compare notes on big risers and surprises in their Ringer Top 100 ballots:
  • Special focus on AJ Mitchell, Con Knippel, Jalen Duren (“26th, which means you have him over like, bam, out of bio” – Lowe, 65:29), Deni Avdija, Sengun (13:07), Reed Sheppard, and Cade Cunningham.
  • Discussion balances stats with “eye test” and occasionally ribbing each other for aggressive rankings.

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4. NBA Trends and Watchability Quick Hits

• Toronto Raptors, Utah Jazz, and OKC get praised for their depth, bench play, and defensive intensity.
• Oklahoma City’s defense:

  “Just so fun to watch them get to a gear on defense where you can see the other team be like, we just got to go to the next game.” (Lowe, 75:01)

• Maxi and Edgecombe in Philadelphia flagged as must-watch, with speculation about potential team trajectory.
• Infectious skepticism about teams like Orlando, Memphis, Sacramento, and especially Brooklyn (“This is a disgrace of a team” – Simmons, 112:23).

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5. NFL Week 11 Picks with Joe House

(From 124:19 onward; NFL fans, skip ahead to 125:08 for picks)

• Bill and House riff on which games to stay away from, like Packers-Vikings and Browns-Raiders, expressing particular disdain for QBs they can't trust.
• Weekly favorites discussed: Chiefs, Lions, Patriots, and Jags.
• House delivers betting advice, including live-betting angles and how early-season schedules and coaching trends influence picks.
• Notable quote:

  “All credit to [Kirk] Cousins…one of a kind. Can’t play professional football.” (House, 149:34)

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6. Memorable Moments & Quotes (With Timestamps)

• Rockets Breakout:
  • “Most fun I've had watching Kevin Durant play basketball since 2017.” (Simmons, 11:34)
  • “They are…supremely entertaining to watch.” (Lowe, 07:51)
• Spurs/Wemby Outlook:
  • “Is this just where we're going to be with Wemby?...you do hear people around the league…almost assuming that his career ends up being shorter than they think.” (Lowe, 09:33)
• League Pass Philosophy:
  • “The heart wants what the heart wants. I enjoy watching Charlotte.” (Simmons, 44:01)
• Live Show Nerves:
  • Zach on his first live event: “The level of difference was jarring and…kind of shook me up for the first 10 or 15 minutes.” (Lowe, 121:09)
• Nets Despair:
  • “This is a disgrace of a team. It's just terrible what they did. I don't…It's embarrassing to watch.” (Simmons, 112:23)

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7. Closing / Housekeeping

• Closing with Bill and House on Boston/New York lifestyle contrasts and a light touch of pop culture (Stephen A. Smith banter about Drake May, 154:53).
• Previews for upcoming episodes and live shows.

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Summary: Why Listen to This Episode?

• Detailed, Real-Time Analysis: You get a sense of which teams are truly must-watch from seasoned NBA obsessives who back up claims with statistics, eye test, and chemistry readings.
• Exclusive Rockets Breakdown: The centerpiece is a nuanced, stats and culture-heavy dive into how the Rockets, once an afterthought, have turned into an NBA must-watch juggernaut.
• Insider Chatter & Wit: The personalities and dynamics between Simmons, Lowe, and House mean the conversation is as entertaining as it is informative—with plenty of memorable one-liners, in-jokes, and real-time reactions.
• NFL Integration: Good for anyone who likes their NBA with a dash of football and enjoys practical sports-betting banter.
• Player Development Watch: The Top 100 mini-segment runs through which young players and breakouts the sharpest NBA media voices are actually buying stock in.
• Unfiltered, Timely, and Completely Connected to the 2025 Season’s Vibe.

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Essential Timestamps

• 05:17 – Start of League Pass Team Draft
• 11:34 – Rockets Deep Dive Begins (“Most fun I've had watching Kevin Durant…”)
• 22:50 – Ime Udoka’s Culture Impact on Houston (“A team built in his image…”)
• 37:40 – Detroit Pistons: Physical makeover, Duren’s leap, and trade debates
• 63:21 – Ringer 100 Rankings – Surprises & Debates
• 75:01 – OKC’s Defensive Nightmare
• 124:19 – Start of NFL Picks with Joe House

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Recommended For: Any NBA fan who wants a pulse-check on how the early 2025-26 season has started, why the Rockets have truly “arrived,” insider debates on how to watch the league, and a little football betting as dessert. The episode expertly blends stats, stories, human drama, and signature humor.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, a crisp, refreshing beer with only 95 calories. And just like some of the best plays we've seen on the court throughout the NBA Cup, Ultra is best served cold. Plus, as the official beer partner of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action. With exclusive prizes and courtside tickets, Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobaltra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025 ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, which has a slew of awesome podcasts, both sports culture, Amy Poehler's Good Hang. I don't need to tell you to check that out because I think it was the most successful launch podcast of the last couple years. It's a really good podcast, though. I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night and I'll just say this. It's going to be me and Chris Ryan and Cousin Sal. Those will be the three hosts. And it's a movie that isn't that good, but you'll still really like it. You'll enjoy the podcast anyway, so that's coming. I'll tweet out over the weekend. Fine. I'll tell you what it is. Fine. Twist my arm. We're doing two for the money with Matthew McConaughey and Al Pacino. A movie that predicted the rise of sports gambling and is, I think, started out as a drama and is now a comedy. But we're going to be breaking that down on Monday. So Two for the Money. You have a whole weekend to watch it. 20th anniversary. I'm surprised you haven't celebrated it. Coming up in this podcast, Action packed. I'm recording from New York City. Zach Lowe is here. He joined me live. We did league pass rankings and a whole bunch of other stuff. And then House comes on late for the ringer. 107 picks. It's all next. We're going to take a break. Pearl Jam and then Zach Lowe. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing the protection of an offensive guard on the football Field, but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on the line. So don't settle for just any insurance. When you can have State Farm, like a good neighborhood. State Farm is there. All right. Zach Lowe is here. I am in New York City. Zach Lowe took the trip.

[B]

Two trains, two kinds of trains. Metro north to the subway.

[A]

Was it fun?

[B]

Love to train.

[A]

You like the train. Do you get recognized? Are people like, hey, Zach Low?

[B]

Occasionally. And sometimes someone is listening to my podcast on the subway. That's always a good one.

[A]

I always like when they're like, hey, yeah, hey, that's a good one.

[B]

I like that one. If I can make your commute better, that's. I've done my service to the world.

[A]

What are the next Nets ratio of people? Like, what's up with my blank? When you're in New York, probably like, 99% Knicks.

[B]

It's 50 to 1. Knicks versus Nets. Meeting a Nets fan, even in New York is only slightly more common than meeting, like, a Magic fan in New York. It's that bad.

[A]

So I went to Nets Celtics on Tuesday night. We had a bunch of Spotify meetings, and we actually had a suite. It was a Spotify suite for Celts. Nets got there pretty early. It was hilarious watching the Nets do all the checkpoints that the NBA teams do where they're like, no. And then the Jumbotron video screen for two minutes, and it's like Michael Porter Jr turning around and Cam Thomas and the crowd's just dead. And it's like 60% Celtic fans. The Nets don't even really seem like they want to be there. The Celtics are just like, let's not fuck this game up, guys.

[B]

The Nets fans hate when you say this and talk about how dead the Barclays center is and how dead it was kind of dead even when they were good. It's like, look, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. Like, I've been to a lot of arenas. This is not. It's not resonating.

[A]

Here's the problem. It's not dead for the Liberty games.

[B]

Dude, Liberty games are awesome. The Liberty games are live. Yeah.

[A]

So it's the Nets fault. And it's the Nets fault, probably for thinking they could come into New York and try to steal New York from the Knicks. Cause everybody loves the Knicks here. So I don't know what the solution is, but I. I'll tell you one of the solutions. Having five first round picks and not having any of them be anyone I was that interested in watching play basketball, that wasn't great. Anyway, enough about the Nets. We're going to talk about them later because one of the many things we're doing, we have a lot of bells and whistles for this one. We're going to do it updated through. What is it, five weeks now?

[B]

Fifteen games, whatever it is, I don't.

[A]

Know, six weeks, whatever. Updated league pass rankings more based on if there were 15 games on and all the teams are across the board, which. Where does your eyes go for, like, oh, that team or oh, I'm not going near that team, combined with what the situation I was in last night, where I went to dinner, I came home, I really had time to watch one game, one of those condensed games, and then a whole fourth quarter of one of the games. And the game I picked kind of ties into where we're going before we do this. I mean, we could do the league pass draft, and then when we get to this team, deep dive them. You want to just do it that way?

[B]

Whatever you want. This is the Bill Simmons podcast.

[A]

I hate when you pass off this responsibility.

[B]

The best thing about being a guest is I don't have to worry about any of that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, good point. All right, league pass draft. I'll give you the first pick. We'll go back and forth.

[B]

So where are we drafting? Are we drafting the best? Are we drafting right off the top?

[A]

I think we have to go best to worst.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think worst will be actually kind of funny because there's a few choices to share and we'll talk about some of the reasons why. But who's your number one team so far? Six weeks.

[B]

So here's what I did. I did when Mahoney and I did the league pass rankings before the season, I got. I wrote those down on one column and then I did a revamped revised one on the next column with biggest risers, biggest losers, people who stayed about the same. So taking from that column, only because Wembanyama is hurt right now, I'm taking Denver with the number one pick. Denver was number two. Great pick for my preseason league pass rankings. Yeah, I think if Wemby were healthy, they'd still be number two. Right now. They are number one. It's just unassailable. Like, it's. It's. And the Jokic stuff just gets crazy. Did you watch any of their game last night?

[A]

The. I saw that.

[B]

Did you see the one handed, underhand off the Backboard floater. It was very Larry Bird. Like, I'm so fucking bored. Yeah, let me catch this pocket pass with my right hand, not touch it with my left hand. And I'm 14ft away from the rim and like almost half underhand scoop off the backboard and it went in and it's like. It was like birds shooting left handed. It was just crazy. And the outlet passes are out of control. Cam Johnson's starting to find his way. It's just a great time.

[A]

So I only watched the highlights of that game. Cause I got home from dinner too late. And it was a good NBA night last night. But a friend of mine watched that game and said watching Jokic slowly over the course of two and a half hours become kind of interested in what was happening with Derrick Queen and be like, all right, I guess. I guess I'm going to have to. I thought this was going to be an easy night. Maybe not. And become just more interested. A credit to Derrick Queen.

[B]

Just a professional basketball team. And you never know when David Adelman's going to be like, you know what? AG's out today. We're going Valanchunas, Jokic together. Let's see how that works. Valanchunas gets to go beast mode when Jokic is off the floor. I mean, what else is there to say? They're just supremely entertaining to watch.

[A]

I talked legs was on last week talking about the all time teams of I have to go to the arena because this person's in town. And Jokic has been. Jokic and Curry have been levitating above everybody this decade and Jokic is the clear number one. I mean even like what's interesting about this year's team is Christian Brown gets hurt. And it's okay. It's not ideal, but they can patch together four or five weeks where I feel like a couple years ago that is probably a bigger disaster. Murray looks better too. Murray has at least his, his kind of zip back.

[B]

All right, so that's you. You're up now. Denver's off the board.

[A]

So we've talked about Jokic so much. There's not a lot left to say. He was. They were my clear number one. San Antonio would have been my number two except for the Wemby injury. Is this just where we're going to be with Wemby?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Can't miss. Just can't miss every game.

[A]

No, but I'm saying is this where we're going to be where it's like treasure the weeks that he's.

[B]

I'M not going there yet.

[A]

I'm not going to go there.

[B]

He played 70 something games his rookie year. We'll see how long he's actually out with this calf thing. Everyone's going extra cautious with the cav stuff. Justifiably so. I'm not panicking. I'm not gonna panic. Last year was a blood clot. Fluky like, I hope not. I'm not going there yet.

[A]

It's funny that it took till 2025 for people to be going, calf strains, look out. Could be more there. Could be more there. It's like, why weren't we there after the 2019 finals? Shouldn't that have been the moment where we're like calf strains. Okay, I will say. Now we know.

[B]

I will say to your point earlier about is this just where we're going to be? You do hear people around the league, just front office guys spitballing about the Spurs. You can find people who would be like, I think they should accelerate their team building schedule. Almost assuming that his career ends up being shorter than they think it's going to be. I just. That seems so early and dire to me. And they're not like five year career. They're like assume an eight to 12 year career and not anything more than that. You hear it is all I'm saying.

[A]

I've made that point in the past on pods and felt bad.

[B]

It's out there.

[A]

But look at the history of the league. Look at the super tall guys. How many of them had longevity? The only one was Kareem. Well, I was going to say the case with Wemby for him to have a longer career is the Kareem case. Like Kareem. I think Kareem was 7 foot 4. Like he was listed at 7 2. I think he. I always thought he was 2 inches taller. Wemby, he's at least 7. I know he. Now he's admitting he's 7 5. I still think he's taller.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

I feel like he's at least 76 and I think 7 7's in play. The thing I always worry about with him is the landing. When it's just so hard for him to stop his body when he's going full speed, that there's just things to step on. That's my biggest fear with him. Anyway. I did not have them. Second. I had the Houston Rockets and let's do this because this was. I texted you on the train. Just heads up. I'm the most excited to talk about the Rockets. This was the team Last night I couldn't wait to do Houston, Cleveland. I couldn't wait to see what happened. I actually put a little. I put a little because I'm in a place with legal gambling. I put a little on the Rockets last night because I actually believe in. I think they're the third best team and have a maybe be even possibly in the running for the second. It's been so fascinating to watch them figure out who they are, what they are, and I don't even think they fully figured it out yet, but I have a number of things I'm enjoying. I'll start here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Most fun I've had watching Kevin Durant play basketball since 2017, since year one warriors, year one Warriors. When I think he was really happy and invested in the team and didn't really care about stats, the ball, all that. He was just so happy to be in the framework of all of it. And there was, like, just real joy and camaraderie with him. I think he's been a little. As both you and I are KD defenders, he's a little up and down emotionally sometimes with seasons and situations.

[B]

Certainly the last two stops.

[A]

Last two stops did not go awesome.

[B]

Did not go great.

[A]

I think he's completely locked in with this Rockets team. I think he knows what they need from him. I think it uses the best pieces of him. He's not doing too much when they need him in crunch time. He's there when they need him to do a little more rebounding, rim protection stuff. He can do it. The passing stuff, I think is the best that's ever looked from him. Even though I know the stats are down, but I think the setup stuff and figuring out where his teammates are. They did a little high screen with Thompson last night that they've been doing more and more where Thompson comes out high and Durant waits and then just kind of floats the thing and Thompson kind of chases it down like a. Like a running back on a screen pass and then just goes to the basket. And I was like, oh, that's something. There's just a lot going on.

[B]

Zach, I'm enthralled by this team. I've been saving it for a standalone.

[A]

Podcast because I just stepped all over.

[B]

No, so we're going to do it. We can do it anyway. I mean, they have the number one offense in the league. Is that true?

[A]

They're number one right now.

[B]

They have a 41% offensive rebounding rate with. Which is just unheard of. It's unheard of. They're Absolutely gigantic. Like their starting lineup is so big it's ridiculous now that especially last night they went akogi on the bench, started the double centers again and there's just a lot of dudes I love watching. Like forget Durant. Everyone loves Durant. Sengun up a big level and his ability to just because of the Van Vliet injury. Their offense is not the most aesthetically pleasing and kind of needs a couple guys who can just create from nothing and a seven footer who can get the ball at the top of the arc and just dribble all the way into a hook shot. That's pretty efficient. It's pretty rare. Like you gotta have a tight handle to be able to hold that.

[A]

Did he do that two years ago? Cause sometimes they'll give him the ball 30ft from the basket and he just goes by somebody and then does his whirly kind of the little yoka g and then ends up with a jump hook or something. But I don't remember him being able to do that the same way.

[B]

It's like easy to take for granted these centers who can dribble in traffic with so someone harassing them that long of a distance. I love watching him. I've always loved Jabari Smith Jr. I just think he's a winner. Amen is Amen. And Steven Adams, man, just what a mid to late career revival. He was injured, he was broken.

[A]

What was that trade when they kind of just took him from New Orleans and Memphis?

[B]

New Orleans salary dump.

[A]

Somebody needed to dump a salary. And he was like there was an.

[B]

Adams Valanchunis exchange between Memphis and New Orleans that was mostly salary related. But he's. I had him in my top 100 players when we just did our. I just. First of all you get to like 80 and then it's 80 to 130 is just eye of the beholder. And I'm just like this guy is a one man offense. Almost like his offensive rebound. His offensive rebounding is like 28%. He's a one man offense. He's such a weapon for them. I'm just rewarded and he's. And he's like got a little chance. Juice back defensively too.

[A]

Not putting Jabari in the KD trade was brilliant by them. Just waiting that out. And I still think that was. That turned out to be an okay trade for Phoenix. I think it accomplished some of the stuff they needed. I don't think they were going to do better.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I've actually liked watching him on this Houston team. I Don't feel like he's an afterthought. And in a weird way, he's the one that tilts it because sometimes I'll just have him out with KD and with Sengun. I think they've even like. Has he. They've played a little with the two centers and those two guys.

[B]

Yeah. Because they started it last night. That was their starting lineup.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. They won't finish games like that, but they'll.

[B]

Sometimes they will.

[A]

They'll float it out there. But I think it actually works with him. It's weird to think he can basically be a two guard even though he's not a two guard. But that's how they'll use him sometimes.

[B]

He said it was her. We didn't even see him.

[A]

They're a nightmare.

[B]

We haven't seen Finney Smith yet. Right. Reed shepherd is starting to happen.

[A]

Well, so that's the other thing. So there's this Reed shepherd subplot, and I think it's going on a scale of 1 to 20. It's probably like a 17 or an 18. How well it's going compared to where.

[B]

I don't think I've ever heard of a one to 20 spot. Why do I do one? 21.

[A]

Yeah, it's eight and a half out of 10. I was obviously dubious. Some of the preseason stuff worried me a little bit, but they kind of give him the car keys sometimes. They give him like, stretches for like five minutes where like, just you're in charge. Here you go.

[B]

I mean, they kind of have to because they. He's the only guy they have that's really like that.

[A]

Plus, they can get real fast breaks.

[B]

A random Aaron Holiday game like last night. And who I've always liked the first couple games. He looked so in mud defensively, like just getting turnstiles by anyone and everyone. He's kind of settled down a little bit. Like, he's never going to be a plus defender. He's always going to be hunted. He does make plays, but he has been a little bit more just. I'm not rolling over or getting blown by in the open court every single time easily. And offensively, he's, like, profiled as a good player and he looks like he's going to be a good player. I think this team is. I just don't even know what to make of them. Like, they're awesome. The numbers clearly suggest they're awesome. Their offense is just so weird. 40% offensive rebounding. It's crazy.

[A]

Yeah, it's Weird with the. They really only get like the traditional old school fast breaks if he's playing right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Otherwise it's a little slower and it's a little more half court, but in a way that no other team in the league looks like. The Sengun thing is probably the most shocking part of it. That and Thompson was doing a little of this last year with the top of the key, beating guys off the dribble. Almost like a ISO offense with everybody spread out. But he seems way more comfortable with it. And I gotta be honest, like, the team makes sense. Like when we did the over unders, I think I went a little under on them and I was just like, I have too many questions. Right. It was 52 and a half and I was like, I have questions about this. I don't know if Shepherd's gonna be ready. I think. I wonder if their ball's gonna be too stagnant when we watch them. It's just everybody doing their own thing and everybody else watching that person. It's not like that when you watch it. Even though it's a lot of ISO ball. But I feel like everybody's included. And then the other thing is, you know, the body language. Doctors just watching intently. I think they have great chemistry. I haven't seen Durant on a team like this. That's like, they're very competitive. I think they love Sengun. He's kind of a badass. Like, he's, you know, he's. You see, there's an anger to him that, In a good way that I really like. Like, he'll get really mad if he doesn't get a call. And he just runs easy a little like Luka ish. But this is like a really competitive, physical nightmare of a team.

[B]

He killed the Celtics and Durant feels like he's found a couple of little brother types that he really likes. Like Jabari Smith Jr. Just mimics his every move in practice, in warmups. And Reed, she's. Durant is clearly like, I'm going to make sure you're okay. Reed Shepherd, I'm going to compliment everything you do well. I'm going to pat you on the butt. I'm going to talk. I'm going to scream when you do great things. He's enjoying that role with those guys. Yeah. This team is the stat.

[A]

Has he been on a team like that where he was big brother? Because Phoenix was obviously not like that. And if anything, it was like this partnership and he's playing for Booker's team and it was uneasy.

[B]

You know from the get go.

[A]

And then Brooklyn was just whatever that was.

[B]

You'll have forgotten about this as most normal people would have. There was a stretch in Brooklyn and I can't remember if it was pre Hardin or post Hardin where Kyrie was shockingly hurt or absent and Harden was absent or Hardin or Simmons, whichever one was, was there at the time.

[A]

And it was Durant and a bunch of other players.

[B]

It was like Durant and Edmund Sumner and like random guys and people you could tell. I think he even said like, this is so much fun. I'm having most fun.

[A]

Who was the early Jacques Vaughn was that.

[B]

I don't. And people with the Nets were like, this is the most fun we've ever seen KD have. Maybe that is something that reminds me of this. But not that these guys are. The talent is a whole other.

[A]

No, I.

[B]

This team is. I'll tell you the stat I'm monitoring. Okay, so you mentioned IsoBall, right? KD is a great ISO guy. Shen Gun, we talked about his ISO game. Ahmed Thompson is like, can create a good floater out of nothing against any defender. They are. I'm looking at it now, 20th in turnover rate and they don't force a lot of turnovers yet. ISO teams generally, one of the benefits of playing that way is you don't turn the ball over a lot. If they can start tilting that aspect of the possession game to their advantage and keep the rebounding where it is and they just become a team that's going to bludgeon you in the possession game every single night. They become very, very dangerous.

[A]

What are they? I forgot to look this up. What are they in assists?

[C]

Are they.

[A]

Let me see. Here.

[B]

They are. I'm looking at it now. 30th in assist rate. 30th in assist rate. So again, that's.

[A]

That's another. It's not a red flag because it's.

[B]

The way they play. If you counted misses as assists, they would be like self passes. They would be number one. I mean, I half joke about it. They have like a Durant run. Durant and Shen Goon like do something offense run a couple run a set and then the other half of their offense is just shoot and we'll get the rebound.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's weird to say this about a basketball team, but the way they play sometimes reminds me of a hockey team where it's just like just keep shooting on the net and we'll just have guys flying in there, big physical guys trying to tip in the. Whatever it's a really interesting team. Like right now in FanDuel, they're plus 650 to win the West. OkC's even and Denver is plus 430. And I think all of us legs and I talked about it last week. You did too. In your pod. It's okc, Denver and then a drop.

[B]

And I apologize to Rockets fans when I said that. I was like, I'm sorry, I gotta figure out your team.

[A]

Right? But I think that going from Denver down to Houston, I think that that distance is going to shrink a little as the year goes on with Houston. And here's the other thing. I don't know anyone in the east that like, if Houston's in the east, that's the favorite in the East. I think. I don't think anyone in the east could hang with them in a seven game series the way they're currently constructed. We'll see. There's some things that could go sideways, the shepherd piece could go sideways. They haven't had an injury or anything yet. Like there's lots of things that could happen. But I'm really, really impressed. They're tough. And by the way, we didn't mention ime.

[B]

He's gotta be loving everything about this team. I mean to talk about a team built in his image of like, I just wanna kick your ass. Like you. We want, we want you to at the end of this game have bruises and feel like you don't wanna see us again for a month. That's the Rockets.

[A]

After that Celtic game, I was like, I don't if these teams played 20 times, I don't know if the Celtics would beat them in any of the 20. Like with the way the Celtics are constructed versus the Rockets, it's like there's. They'd have to make like 30 of 50 threes, I think to win and.

[B]

To tie it back to now. You watched that game last night. I thought that was an awesome win last night for the Rockets in Cleveland. They got a 20 point lead. Cavs bench goes crazy, gets them back into it. Lonzo's doing crazy stuff. Donovan, Mitch Hook finally gets hot. Late third, early fourth. They cut the lead all the way down to one or two.

[A]

It is like a 23, three run.

[B]

Maybe they even tied it. I can't remember. It got down to one or two and the Rockets on the road withstand that. Get some big buckets. Aaron Holiday makes some big buckets. Sengoon makes some big buckets and pull away for like, I don't know what it ended up being they got it back to 11 at one point. That's like a, that's a real professional basketball win for a good team.

[A]

I've watched a lot of Rockets this year. They've had probably five moments already this season where they're like, need a basket. And then it's like Kevin Durant's like, I got this guys. Let me just get my little 15 footer in traffic that nobody's blocked for since 2009.

[B]

That's two. We drafted two teams.

[A]

We drafted two teams. We're going to take a break and we're going to keep going. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel putting you in control right from tip off with my favorite sport, even though I also love football and baseball. But basketball, that's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style, you are in control. We had House later in this podcast talking about basketball and he thinks the two undervalued teams right now, Toronto and Phoenix. He does not think the market has caught up with them. So go check them out. No matter how you play, FanDuel's giving you the power to choose your reward. Own your game this NBA season, which has been awesome. Head to FanDuel.com BS to make your pick. Get in the game and play it your way. Must be 21 + presidents in select states or 18 + in president in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See [e-mail], gamma problem. Call 1-800- Gamble or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-78-9777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInElectric this episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Real Talk for a second. You think you're crushing it with sleep. You're getting eight hours. You're doing everything right, feeling great about it. Well, using the Apple Watch is kind of like checking game film. It breaks it all down for you. Sleep duration, bedtime, consistency interruptions gives you a play by play of exactly what happened while you slept. No questions asked. My wife has been on this from the get go. She's studying. It's like the all 22 in NFL. You tweak a few things, cut back on late caffeine, maybe actually go to bed. When you say well, boom. You might actually start waking up feeling rested. Apple Watch helps You figure out your sleep so you're not flying blind anymore. And you can find out [e-mail] AppleWatchSeries 11 iPhone 11 or later required all right, league pass draft. We're going to zip through this now. Houston was the one we really wanted to spend some time on. So we have Denver and Houston so far. Who's your third pick?

[B]

San Antonio.

[A]

You had them. Well, so we've had the same top three.

[B]

Doesn't need an explanation. Am curious how they get through this stretch without Wemby plus Harper plus Castle.

[A]

For the next few hot take without Wemby. Still really fun to watch. Get a little Luke Cornette, Olenek combo, et cetera. We get to watch Dear and Fox kind of try to figure out who he is on this team. Castle, Harper. I like all these guys. I like watching them.

[B]

Can I get Fox and Wemby for a week?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Just one week. But yeah, I mean, they're still fun to watch. Keldon Johnson had a nice season. Sochan's doing Sohan stuff.

[A]

If you had to put an over under for Darren Fox on the San Antonio spurs, what year and what month would you give? I don't know.

[B]

A year and month.

[A]

I was going to say, is he there in 2029?

[B]

I would go no, I would say two. I would set the over under at two and a half years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think this is a great problem to have. I don't think the spurs feel like this is a problem at all based.

[A]

On what happened because they're not gonna win the title this year.

[B]

Everyone's rushing this whole process and they're like, look, we already have injuries. This is one of the reasons you get a second star. The first one gets hurt and these young guards are gonna have ups and downs and we're gonna be able to play. They're gonna try to play all three of them together. This is a non issue right now.

[A]

Do you think they're in their 2013 warriors phase or their 2014 warriors phase?

[B]

So 2013 is warriors surprise.

[A]

Oh my God. Wow. They won a series. Oh, they just got theirs.

[B]

They lose to the Clippers and the Sterling year and Mark Jackson. Oh, did I think they're even. I think they're 2000 closer to 2013 warriors.

[A]

That's what I have as well. This is fun. Whoa, look at us. Hey, we won a playoff series. It's about where we're going. I mean, they're two years away from being whatever they're put where the ceiling comes in, I think.

[B]

And just. I Mean, it goes without saying, but it's hard to miss a Wemby game because four ridiculous things are gonna happen in every single game. Even if he has, like a random 4:15, 12 point game, he's gonna do four things on defense where you're like, that's not even a real thing. That just happened.

[A]

What was it Friday night? When did they play Golden State? Was it Friday night?

[B]

They played them twice. They had a baseball series. I think it was Friday, Sunday, Thursday, Sunday.

[A]

One of the ones when Butler was in the last minute and Butler. It was a fast break, and Butler, for some reason, decided he could challenge Wemby and take it to the rim. And it was a huge part of the game. It was like it was tied or it was a one point. And Wemby did some. He blocked it, and it was hard to tell which arm he blocked it from. He was like a fucking octopus. So that was lady. I was like, I want to see the replay. Because I couldn't tell if he swung around and blocked it this way or blocked it this way. And then they showed the replay and it was his left hand, but I had no idea which arm he used. You just don't know. He might have a third arm.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

He might have a third arm.

[B]

So, yeah, I took the spurs three. No further explanation. Now it's going to get interesting because I think we're going to have very different.

[A]

Oh, not for me. All right, the number four is clear.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Move your mic closer to you so we can still hear you. It's the Detroit Pistons.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Talked about a little with legs last week.

[B]

I had them 11th.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of brute. First of all, 11th is way higher than they were coming into. It's actually. I had them 15 before 11th. Now they're a battering ram. They're not the most attractive.

[A]

You know, make the case. And I don't think they'll be here two months from now. But when I talked about them last week, like, it was more like, I'm really interested in what's happened to them. And they moved in. They have a couple of new guys, right? Robinson's a new wrinkle, Lavert's a new wrinkle. But just what's happening with them competitively? What happened to Duran, who I can't wait to talk about where I had him in Ringer 100. What's happened with Cade? Just that team's on a winning streak as we record this, and it's just not surprising if you watch them. It's like another team like Houston, like these competitive motherfuckers who just want to win every game, who want to rip your heart out of your chest. And Duran, they'll be 11th for me in a month. But right now the Duran piece has been fascinating for me. For him to just become basically Dwight Howard. He's like a 23 and 11 night after night. Like just kind of brute forcing everybody. It's like I didn't have this on my bingo card. I think he's 22.

[B]

I'm going to. He might have a more. I'm not saying better, higher spot. He might have a more refined offensive game now than Dwight Howard.

[A]

He doesn't. And he's not as good of a shot blocker as Dwight. But I'm just saying like that force.

[B]

Who'S like, no, I'm saying he might have a more refined offensive game now than Dwight ever did. Like, his face up game is really good.

[A]

I agree with that.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I think he should be an all star. I haven't sat down and looked at the God only knows how to even build the rosters anymore with this stupid new thing that we're doing.

[A]

Honestly, he's in the running for 13 all NBA. For me, if we were doing it after 13 games, which we wouldn't.

[B]

But no, he's had. He had a hot start to last season too and it faded. So. But he looks like a much different. He's a different player defensively. I've always been a big Duran guy. This is way ahead of schedule. Like this is a complete all Star level.

[A]

Had no explosion. I gotta be honest, I did not see this one coming with him. I think He's a guaranteed 22 and 12 a night now. Right.

[B]

It's about what he's averaging.

[A]

But I like watching them and the curiosity of just what's going on with them was number four for me.

[B]

Can I ask you a Pistons question that's popular around the league?

[A]

Whether they should make a trade.

[B]

Well, though that we. We could talk. We could do that if you want. It is interesting that Troy Weaver, much ridiculed for his Pistons tenure, currently pre ridiculed for his New Orleans tenure with Joe Dumars. He did draft most of this team, shoving aside the Killian Hayes pick which didn't go great. And it is kind of interesting.

[A]

I'm just marveling at this Zach. The Trey Weaver Zach right now.

[B]

This is incredible. But you hear front office people be like, you know, he did first of all you don't credit him for Cade. Right. And there was a Cade Mobley debate in Detroit's front office that I can't remember off the top of my head which way he fell on that. Can't win, win, right, win, win. But number one pick, getting it right, you don't get extra credit for that.

[A]

Mobley going one, I think would have been pretty surprising.

[B]

Assar Thompson, he picked, but there was everything else he did around the team, like, made no sense and put all those young guys in positions to fail, and then they change leadership and then they're like, oh, shooting veterans. That's a smart thing to do, but.

[A]

That'S why he got fired. And then people are a bunch of big guys.

[B]

People are worried. The same thing is going to replicate itself in New Orleans, where, like, Queen's pretty good fears is pretty good. But A, your value proposition on Queen was, like, way wacky to trade the pick you traded, and B, do we trust you to actually put the right pieces around these draft picks, even if they hit? So there's an interesting Troy Weaver thing, the trade thing. I talked about it on my pod yesterday. I would posit the question to you. If you're Trajan Langdon, you're 13 and 2.

[A]

I'm not doing anything.

[B]

Okay. Let me just ask you, though, forget not doing anything right now. No one's doing anything. The east is a little bit of a mess. Cleveland's a little meh. New York's a little meh compared to expectations. Do you read?

[A]

New York's a lot of meh.

[B]

Do you read 13 and 2 as, oh, my God, are we good enough to make the Finals already and we don't have to do anything?

[A]

Well, they could make the finals.

[B]

Or do you read it as, like, strike while the iron is hot and this should embolden me to be, like, even more aggressive if the perfect player that is Markkanen, is actually available.

[A]

So Tobias has to be in that trade. And I think he's important for this team because he's a. Everyone says he's really important guy behind the scenes. I just want to mess with it. There's a Trey Murphy conversation that's not the Markkanen I think Markkanen, as much as I like him and he's awesome, I do think it shifts their team a little bit in a way that I'm not certain what direction. I know he's awesome.

[B]

I think he'd be perfect.

[A]

I would just look at, like, my two guys are Cade and Duran, and if I added just an awesome, awesome, awesome scorer, shooter, and improved that side.

[B]

Of this smaller scale move than like.

[A]

A slightly smaller scale than like. We are now doing the Desmond Bain trade with Laurie Markkane.

[B]

We talked about this possibility yesterday, and I just. I just don't know who the guy would be yet to fit that.

[A]

I feel like they could add her on the fringes. Listen, we've talked about this the entire time I've known you. What are your responsibilities when you actually have a chance to make a finals? Do you have to think differently? Even if your timeline, you think it's this, but now you have this, and it's like, hey, there's the finals. We might make the finals. Do we just move this timeline over here?

[B]

Well, also, there's the question of, like. So if you think you can make the finals as is coming out of this ravaged East, I think they could. Nothing is impossible right in the east, and this team is clearly a very good team. Do you have to begin thinking of, should we think about winning the finals and is that where the train stops for this current roster, given who's coming out of the West? I mean, do you have to. When you talk about your responsibility, when there's a window, the window isn't just the East. I mean, it's cool to say, if we make the finals, we have a puncher's chance. We've seen some east teams make the finals and not have a puncher's chance.

[A]

This brings me to a new segment on the Bill Simmons podcast. It's brought to you by. No sponsor yet. It's called what Would Sam Presti Do? I think that would be a good segment. Okay, what would Sam Presti do if he was running Detroit right now?

[B]

Probably nothing.

[A]

He would do nothing. Yeah, he might add around the fringes. He would. I think his weird Sam Presti computer brain would see all the possibilities and be like, even if we made the finals, we'd get killed with Lori Markkanen. So why would I go all in? I'm only going all in if I can make the finals. I'm only cashing in if it's my version of Giddy for Caruso where it's like, I'm now adding this and now we are ready to win the title. And I just don't think Markkanen wins the title for them. You gotta measure yourself against this OKC juggernaut that also might have the top five pick.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

I just wouldn't go all in. And I like the team and I think the team likes each other, but I Think if you can steal Trey Murphy and not mortgage everything. I think you have to think about it.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Trey Murphy.

[B]

The price of Trey Murphy is gonna be pretty high. Not Lowry marketing high, but high.

[A]

Probably two to three firsts, right? Like good first.

[B]

Yeah. And I've got to put in somebody like Ivy or Holland.

[A]

That's why with the Celts, if it's just. If it's the Simons expiring and you can have 26, we'll give you the worst of our swap. With San Antonio. In 28, we'll give you an unprotected in 31, we'll give you Hugo. As much as I love him, doesn't New Orleans have to at least have a meeting?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so you picked Detroit fourth. So you love watching this team right now?

[A]

I do. I want in a month I'll have solved them and I'll have moved on.

[B]

Who, wait, are you slightly concerned that have there been any fights yet? I feel like Isaiah Stewart and Ron Holland are dialing it back a little bit to see.

[A]

I'm so glad you brought that up because it was part of my case. It's like watching a hockey team where they might mix it up. It might be like there might be a third line brawl in the third period in a 5, 2 game because they do. Ron Holland's itchy. Stuart's itchy. Like those guys are coming around with their chests out.

[B]

Those guys, both of them can really guard. I mean, Ron Holland is a menace.

[A]

Okay, so do you feel like Thompson went up a level two on that? He was my pick, started in the playoffs.

[B]

He was my pick for most improved player this year despite the fact that his brother was the odds on favorite.

[A]

That wouldn't you say that's a team that the other teams are like, ah, fuck, we're playing Detroit tonight.

[B]

It's a great thing to be in the regular season. The off fuck team. Like, oh God, they're on the schedule now, but we just played this other team.

[A]

So who are the ah, fuck team.

[B]

That the off team.

[A]

Fuck finals is Detroit versus Houston.

[B]

Oh, I mean, no. I mean, I don't even know. Houston is the ultimate. Like anytime Stephen Adams is involved, you're just like, oh my God, this is going to be so much.

[A]

By the way, Stephen Adams, only 25 years old. I just read this. Somehow 32 just turned 25.

[B]

32.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Your teen, your number five pick.

[B]

All right. I didn't do this to annoy you. I'm picking the Lakers. I had them fourth on my list. I thought LeBron's debut went swimmingly, particularly on offense. And I'm just. I'm legitimately fascinated by JJ working the three of these guys together over an extended period of time. The star power is undeniable. And that now includes Austin Reaves. The supporting pieces are kind of interesting.

[A]

Austin reeves, who was 28 and 7 and 4 the first 12 games of.

[B]

The year, I mean, I was afraid of where I was going to put him in my top 100.

[A]

The Austin Reeves stats were better than any Paul Pierce season for the first 12 games. To put it in context, like, how.

[B]

Are they gonna guard? How are the lineups gonna be? I think it's. The whole thing is great theater. LeBron being back is great theater. I love it. I'm all in the team as a contender, as a league, I had them.

[A]

In the top half of my list. As you know, it's always tough for me to look at the Laker uniforms, but I will say the LeBron, what he said, I thought was very encouraging. I don't know if you saw that. It was basically effectively, I'm LeBron James. I can fit in any basketball team I want, and I can be a useful basketball player. And I'm not worried about how I'm fit in. It's like, that's good. I'm glad he said it out loud.

[B]

That's all we've been waiting to hear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Other than. How about more of that and less of cryptic statements from agents and tweets and Instagram posts from Cleveland's practice facility? How about more of that?

[A]

You weren't talking about the ringer's rich Paul, were you?

[B]

As you know, I'm a bit my guy. As you know, I'm a fan.

[A]

No, I. Listen, I don't like the passive aggressive Laker shit. And we talked about it. I thought it was weird, and I don't know why LeBron has done this and continued to do this for the last eight years. I don't know what would be a better situation for a guy his age than to have two awesome offensive players. Rich Man's name is Keda and deandre Ayton.

[B]

Wow. Neeme getting her early shot.

[A]

Neeme with more pr.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They're basically the same guy. Let's be honest.

[B]

Nemi's good.

[A]

Neem's good.

[B]

Nemi's good.

[A]

And if you just switch them one day and they did, like, the Nicolas Cage, John Travolta face Off, I don't think people would realize they'd switch faces for, like, two weeks. This is a nice team. And by the way, I think it's good if you're 40, 41 years old to have Luka Doncic just handle most of the day to day stuff.

[B]

Seems great.

[A]

And this is like, LeBron's one of the smartest players of all time, and he knows he can fit into wherever they need him. The question will be the end of the game will be a little weird. That's always been weird with the biggest guys ever. Even going back to Magic when he came back in 96. That was weird. Should I take over here? What do I do? Larry Bird's last couple years, same thing when Reggie Lewis was ascending. Do you want me now? What should I do? That's the part that'll be fun, but I'm with you. I think it's a defensible pick.

[B]

Honestly, I kind of feel like Austin Reaves would have the ball. Just you guys defer to me. Like, I got. I got this, like, crunch time. I'm him. I'm good. Like, Austin Reaves is ready for that.

[A]

You wouldn't think about trading Austin Reeves for what you don't think.

[B]

You get to think about trading him for who?

[A]

Somebody awesome who just fits this kind of. Like, are you. If Luka and Austin Reeves are your best two guys, can you actually compete for a real title? Can you win four straight rounds? If those are your top two guys.

[B]

I don't think this team can in.

[A]

This conference, but two years from now, the team they build.

[B]

I don't. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I think there's no reason why a team built around those two guys couldn't win. I mean, we've seen Luka get to the finals with Kyrie.

[A]

You know what the answer is? Don't trade Austin Rees. I'm just being a dick. Okay, well, that was me. I was just trying to plant seeds because I don't like Laker fans.

[B]

Well, I mean, the Laker fans should remember who took the over on the over under podcast. Only one of the three of us did.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a long season.

[B]

It is a long season.

[A]

Luca, what does he play 60 games a year? LeBron's already been hurt.

[B]

And they're. And yet. And yet they're 11 and four or whatever. They are. 11 and four. Yeah. So I picked them. I picked them fourth. That's four. I picked them fourth.

[A]

Well, you fifth. So we went Denver, Houston.

[B]

You're right. Okay.

[A]

San Antonio, Detroit, Lakers.

[B]

All right, so you have the Sixth pick.

[A]

This is. You're just going to be upset.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because you're going to think this is a ridiculous pick.

[B]

You're not picking Boston?

[A]

No.

[B]

Ok.

[A]

I'm taking Charlotte.

[B]

It's insane. Honestly. You probably need to take a week off. Like just take. Take a beat.

[A]

I love watching Charlotte.

[B]

I had them 23rd.

[A]

I love watching Charlotte. I'm not going to love watching Charlotte.

[B]

Or do you love watching Con Knippel?

[A]

Lamelo came back.

[B]

Yeah. And he sucked 6 of 21 or something.

[A]

They're just fun. I just want to see all the pieces. I'm enjoying it. I watch a lot of Charlotte.

[B]

Look, I get it. I've been tricked by Charlotte for the last three seasons straight. Being like, hey, I like some of their players. I know all the names.

[A]

This isn't a power poll. It's a league pass ranking. The heart wants what the heart wants. I. I enjoy watching Charlotte. They're 4 and 10. 4 and 11.

[B]

4 and 11.

[A]

Bad. Bad.

[B]

6 bad.

[A]

They've been in these games like they're in the vicinity when you watch them. They lose overtime games.

[B]

Double single digit loss to the Pacers last night.

[A]

Well done everybody. That wasn't great.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

I like watching Charlotte. Knipple's been the best rookie in the league.

[B]

Yes, he has been.

[A]

I'm learning about him as a player. I like watching the rookies. I like watching Edgecomb. I like watching Flag.

[B]

Those people don't play for the Hornets. The Flag and Edgecomb.

[A]

I just have enjoyed the Hornets in a month. I won't watch them anymore. But right now I've been test driving them and I had them slightly over another team that I think you're about to take.

[B]

This is the crazy sixth.

[A]

Sometimes I like bad basketball teams, Zach.

[B]

But like em at 18, my favorite.

[A]

Clippers team ever was the 2011 before Chris Paul team for tab season tickets for when they had heavy Baron Davis. Yeah, before they traded him. I really enjoyed watching that team. They were like 32 and 50 at a great time.

[B]

They also had. Oh yeah, okay. That's fine.

[A]

I have a great time with the Charlotte team. I'm not going to apologize.

[B]

I do like Eric Collins. I do like Eric Collins. Well, he's a highlight for me.

[A]

That's another league pass thing. When they had the Milwaukee game, Eric Collins had the broadcasting performance of the year. Khan, it was like Miles Bridges went for a dunk and it kind of got blocked.

[B]

Khan hits the throne.

[A]

Sit down. The Khan. Yes. Went like fucking lost his mind.

[B]

Home diddle e d It was great. I love.

[A]

I love that dude.

[B]

Well, that's an easy pick for me not to make.

[A]

Go ahead. Go chalk. Go ahead.

[B]

I'm just going chalk Warriors. Oh, wow.

[A]

I had them lower.

[B]

I mean, Steph Curry is amazing to watch. Like watching Steph Curry.

[A]

Well, unfortunately, he doesn't play all the time.

[B]

True.

[A]

You know who's always in the lineup? Con Knippel.

[B]

Is he.

[A]

Here's why I go and stay lower. Frustrating.

[B]

Yeah. But frustrating in a way that makes you think about what is the ceiling of this team? What are they going to look like in the playoffs? What riddles does Steve Kerr have?

[A]

What's the ceiling of this team?

[B]

Charles Lee has no riddles to solve. Charles Lee's just like, I get through another season of this shit.

[A]

The ceiling of this team is low.

[B]

Yeah, I don't disagree.

[A]

I mean, by the way, do you want to work on a documentary about the two weeks when it seemed like Jonathan Kaminga had finally found a home in Golden State? I was thinking about stylizing it. Maybe it's 10 days and it's just day one, day two, and then by day 11, it's like, eh. Eh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was a fun 10 days, though. We figured it out. But, you know, he's Sean Marion.

[B]

You know, it's going to happen again. There's going to be a two week stretch in January. Where? Or December. Probably December. Because by January, when can he be traded? I think January 15th.

[A]

Yeah. January 16th. He won't be on the team.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

The Al Horford slipping it in there. Oh, it's just my guess. I don't have inside info. Possibly washed up. Al Horford has been depressing. Draymond doesn't look to shoot ever shooting threes. How many field goal attempts does he at?

[B]

I'm gonna.

[A]

I feel like he's just not interested in shooting well.

[B]

I mean, none of them are interested in shooting around the basket other than Kaminga. Draymond's at his regular 7A game.

[A]

I did enjoy the San Antonio game when he tried to fuck with Wemby I thought was probably my favorite moment of the year.

[B]

Following that up with the fan thing in New Orleans.

[A]

It's getting a little gamey.

[B]

It's always something. It's always something.

[A]

It's starting to get a little gamey. Um, Steve Kirk complaining about the schedule. One of my favorite NBA staples in this case, he was kind of right. It was kind of nuts how many cities they played in.

[B]

So here's the thing. I was in Minnesota last week. Yeah, they Were whining about the schedule because they had Denver on the back to back and Denver was rested. And I believe if. I believe they have that again in Minnesota at some point. And I'm like, look, guys, zoom out a little bit. Like, if your schedule sucks now, you're going to have all these little cookies.

[A]

And other parts, like the Lakers with two Utah games in eight days.

[B]

Yeah, you're going to have little cookies at other parts of the schedule. It's all. It all evens out.

[A]

The schedule's too long, Zach.

[B]

Well, that's a different thing. We all know that. Everybody knows that.

[A]

Everyone knows that. Including Adam Silver. He doesn't care. He's like, wow, we can have eight more Peacock games. Let's get it to 80 and then two more Amazon games. 82 right there. It should be 76, should be the maximum. And it really should be 72 or 70. And it would make the league better. It would make everybody better.

[B]

And everyone knows this. It's not.

[A]

By the way, no one disagrees.

[B]

There's no one. How you know you're right is there's no one on the other side being like, you know, we really need 96 games. The season's too short. There's no one making the other argument.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good point. Cause the other thing is, they're like, well, it never happened. It's too much money to give up. It's like, how much fucking money does everybody need? How much money does. Like, the Celtics just sold for over $7 billion. Devin Booker's gonna make $75 million a year. Like, what's. Like, what's an acceptable money level for everybody?

[B]

It's all these owners, too, that are worried now suddenly get cold feet about expansion because, well, we get the expansion fee, but then we have to divide this massive TV money up in two more slices. 1 32nd of September.

[A]

That won't affect it for 50 years, man.

[B]

Which gigantic pot of money is more gigantic for me? Okay, Seattle, sorry, you gotta wait because NBA fucking Paris is coming up next.

[A]

There's. I said this on my mailbag pod. There's some Vegas momentum again. Great. And I don't know whether they want to get an expansion team in there because they're worried about New Orleans in 2029 just jumping there. Or maybe New Orleans goes there, but something's going on with Vegas. People are a little abuzz with the Vegas news. Okay, all right. Could you do a 31 team league? Is that too weird?

[B]

Sure. You could do it. It's doable.

[A]

Have the imbalance conference.

[B]

I mean, they change the lottery odds once every eight years, 10 years. Does he change these rules? Make them more complicated?

[A]

We're behind schedule, so.

[B]

Okay, let's go. Zoom.

[A]

I'm going to take Chicago 8th.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Wow. I'm sorry. I like watching basketball, Zach.

[B]

Yeah, we all like watching basketball.

[A]

And I like watching basketball that is different than the basketball that I watched a year before, which in the last 25 games of last year, the Bulls all of a sudden became really fun to watch.

[B]

For whatever reason, they are fun to watch. The Bulls are fun. They play super hard, super fast. I like watching the Bulls.

[A]

Here's the Bulls. They're a boxer that has great fights with everybody else, right. They're like, Evander Holyfield is a great example of this. Like, Evander Holyfield wasn't one of the best heavyweights of all time, but had, like, 10 awesome fights. And if you just, like, took 10 Holyfield fights on a desert island, even going back to when he was a cruiserweight, you'd have a great time watching his fights. Chicago game after game. Just a great time. Great hang.

[B]

It's.

[A]

The games are like the game last night. It would be like 123 to 121, and somebody would have the ball with 30 seconds left with a chance to go ahead or tie. And yesterday it was a Vuch game winner.

[B]

Huge mistake by Tomati Kamara. Love Tomati Kamara. Gotta play. No threes D. No threes D. Good chemistry. Yeah.

[A]

A lot of guys that I've liked individually that I'm happy, they're in a good basketball situation. And what they're over. Under was like 32. They're over that. I think they're in the 40s anyway.

[B]

Should they trade for Anthony Davis?

[A]

So he's from there. And that can go one of two ways with these guys. Either they're excited to go home or they want no part of going home. I would assume he's more on the side of, I'd rather not go home.

[B]

I don't know. I just. I'm interested to see what they do because now they, you know, they're 6 and 1. 6 and 6. Now they've won a couple in a row, so they're back to being over. As long as they're around here, I think inertia wins out. Let's just play our cards and free agency down the line.

[A]

Is that your expert opinion? Because that's the spend the last 15 years personifying.

[B]

Well, you would think if they're better than expected Maybe that changes the equation one way or another. But if they're just. Who knows Anyway, do I get to pick.

[A]

What's their ceiling? They're not passing Detroit, New York, Cleveland is the four spot like in play for them. Cause like right now Toronto's 10 and five and they're the two seed. I mean I just feel like the four spots in play for everybody.

[B]

The four spots in play for everybody except your beloved Charlotte Hornets and below. But I think history, remember Miami, Cleveland, Knicks, Atlanta, I think Philadelphia, depending on.

[A]

Embiid, obviously Toronto's in there.

[B]

Yeah, I think all those teams have slightly higher ceilings than the Bulls maybe is there.

[A]

Did you. I didn't hear your pod yesterday. Did you talk Anthony Davis with the Pistons?

[B]

Yeah, I hate it. I wouldn't do it. I don't. Hate is strong. It's just not. I mean we're sitting here talking how all in should they go? Who should they give up stuff? I just don't. They have the number two defense in the NBA and they desperately need shooting. I just don't think they need him. And he's not the guy that I would give up stuff for.

[A]

I'm going to go further. I think what's happened with.

[B]

I don't even get why people are bringing it up.

[A]

I think what's happened with Paul George and Joel Embiid would scare the living shit out of me. Trading for anyone with miles on them.

[B]

For injury prepped and heading into this year. I'm just talking about. Even if you're saying like if I'm.

[A]

Detroit, it's not even a sure thing.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I say you're not trading for 26 year old Anthony Davis. You're trading for 32 year old. I've had a lot of injuries Anthony Davis and I have to wear goggles for the rest of my life when I play basketball because I got like poked badly in the ass. I don't know. There's the miles have added up for him. So you're a no.

[B]

I just. Like I said, I'm a no as well. On my Nico fired pod last week I went through like 15 fake Anthony Davis trades and I brought up, I said the two teams that are getting brought up that I just don't see the fit with or that I don't really get why they're brought up except they have a lot of assets are Detroit and Houston. I just don't like Houston. I just don't think it addresses anything that either team needs.

[A]

IME's blocking that one.

[B]

All Right. My pick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Knicks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just a lot of pressure.

[A]

A lot of pressure. Had them lower.

[B]

Fun to watch. Good broadcast. Have some injuries now. Brunson came back last night. Anunoby's still out. Love watching Josh Hart and just the ongoing Tibbs fired pressure. How can you maximize Karl Towns? The dance of how often he plays center, how often he plays with Mitchell Robinson. I love macho Mitchell. I love the whole Mitchell Robinson experience. I like the free throws. I like the offensive rebounds. A lot of pressure on the Knicks and that makes for good theater for me. That was the start.

[A]

I feel like we'll be talking about them a lot over the years. That was the ninth pick.

[B]

Ninth.

[A]

Okay. Whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what they're missing. For me, maybe there's a familiarity because we had them last year, but they haven't really caught my fancy this year, unlike this next team.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The Hawks of Atlanta.

[B]

There you go. I had them pretty high.

[A]

I actually should have. If you just given me the no Trey Young Hawks of Atlanta, I probably would have put them in the top six. I really like when. No, no, no shots at Trey Young here, but I. A little bit of shot. Well, I'm just saying I like the identity of the no Trae Young Hawks is really fun to watch, I think. I like all the long guys and the defense and some of their role players are fun. The Porzingis just. Whenever he plays, just throwing him on this team, it's like watching somebody just pop onto a movie that you're watching. Like, hey, that guy. And Jalen Johnson.

[B]

Oh, so good.

[A]

I can't wait to talk about Ringer 100. That was another one.

[B]

I'm feeling very good. Unless Porzingis misses so many goddamn games that it disqualifies a congu. I'm feeling really good about my congu6 man at the year pick from preseason.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

Love that pick.

[A]

Well, you talked about Detroit. Is there pressure on them to do something? To me, Atlanta is the team that actually should do something. They have real assets. They got to figure out this Trey Young thing. They have this giant trade exception where they could take money for a year and really do an interesting trade. And they had that New Orleans pick if they wanted to get. If they wanted to dance in the fire.

[B]

You can't trade that. If you're the Hawks.

[A]

You can't.

[B]

But could be the number one pick in the draft.

[A]

Can't trade it, but it puts them to the front of the line of trade. Conversations of the best guys that are.

[B]

Going to be available, then that's just a who then. That's because the New Orleans Pelicans are 2 and 13 and trending toward a season now. There's a world in which Zion stays healthy and they trend toward like a regular 32 win season.

[A]

They don't have their picks, so they're going to try the whole time. And so which we've seen. So they'll be five picks.

[B]

You would see 2 and 13 and be like, wow, they're right there at Brooklyn and Indiana. You're going to be guaranteed a top five pick. Like, at worst, there's a world in which that doesn't end up being the case. But that I don't think right now. I don't think you can trade that pick. If you're the Hawks, you're not good enough to trade that pick.

[A]

Just put the top three on it. Just don't. Why didn't they call us? Okay, I've met Joe Dumars. Just call it. Just give a. Just call Three people who have no stakes in it. Just like, hey, what do you think about unprotected here?

[B]

Can you imagine if that leaked out like they called you? And I know, like Bill Simmons stopped trading, you'd be the most hated man in Atlanta. They would never give you a credit. They would never even sell you a ticket ever again.

[A]

This is an awesome draft, but I don't know if what we've seen from Boozer and I want to see Boozer Moore, but I do have some questions about him as like, this is a guaranteed three franchise guys. I want to see Boozer more, but I'm not. I'm not sure I'm there with him yet with that.

[B]

So what do you do with Trey then? Because I have the Hawks very high.

[A]

You know what you do?

[B]

I like what?

[A]

Can I. Can I play? Act this.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Vivek. It's Bill Simmons, owner of the Atlanta Hawks. I knew it. What are you up to? Hey, had an idea.

[B]

What do you want? What do you want from the Kings?

[A]

You take whatever, whatever. They'll make a dumb trade. That's got to be your first call if you want to trade anyone on your team. You want Levine because he's under contract next year.

[B]

Demar derozan plus salary.

[A]

And do they even have expirings?

[B]

Derozan is a semi expiring. Levine has a player.

[A]

The Kings somehow built this terrible team. There's no trade flexibility.

[B]

Let's not talk about the Kings. We've done too much so after Vivek.

[A]

My next call would be the LA Clippers.

[B]

I can't wait to see how they react to a season that isn't going well.

[A]

John Collins. Bogdanovich.

[B]

Bring John Collins home, baby.

[A]

Give us an unprotected 2032.

[B]

Former Hawks galore.

[A]

Yeah, just give us a 2032 first. You can have Trae Young, and you don't have your pick this year. And maybe he'll save.

[B]

It should be illegal to have Trae Young and James Harden on the same team. You can't do it.

[A]

Well, then you would trade James Harden. I think that would be your next move. You wouldn't trade James Harden and Trey Young for each other in the same deal. Correct.

[B]

I just. I can't. I don't even. I'd ha. I need about four hours to digest that one.

[A]

Okay. You enjoy Atlanta, though. Their bench guys are fun.

[B]

Yeah. I just beat Creat Cheese on a heater right now. I enjoy the Hawks. Yeah.

[A]

And I did a mailbag the other day and I said Gaye instead of Gay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know why I had his name wrong? Because I haven't watched the Hawks this year. They've always been on one of the other TVs and not the main TV. I've never heard the announcers, so I thought it was Gaye. It's Mogay.

[B]

I know it's Mogay. They love Mogue. I am interested in the. I want Trey to come back soon because I want to see. Okay, you watched this Trae Young. You saw the team play pretty well without you and pass more and move more.

[A]

I mean, what do they go, 8 and 2 so far?

[B]

Yeah, the ceiling. But the ceiling of the non Trae Young Hawks, realistically, is, like, here, like, pretty good team. The ceiling of the Trae Young doesn't adapt as game Hawks, but reintegrates with the scene. Probably like here, the ceiling, where everything clicks and you get a Trae Young who's committed to a different style of play is here. And that's interesting to me. So I had them pretty high on my list, too.

[A]

Can I make a Trey Young point really fast before we go to the next one?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what Trey Young was shooting on three pointers this year before he got hurt? I'm going to guess 26%, 192.

[B]

Okay. It's low.

[A]

He's taking five a game. Only five games?

[B]

Yeah. I'm not.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Can I. Can I not. He didn't have a great shooting year last year.

[A]

Year before 34.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Year before 37. Year before 33.5. It's one of those things where you think he's this awesome three point shooter and he's just not. And we now have a lot of evidence because he's about to hit his 30s.

[B]

So I think he's his career. What's his career shooting percentage?

[A]

His career is 35 and his best year ever was 38 in 2022.

[B]

This is part of the reason why I like to the mystery of what does it look like if he plays his game a little bit more differently and some of the 32 foot pull ups comes the spot shooters are traded for. Not all. Not. He's always going to take all pull up threes but like two of those a game become two spot up threes or two passes or two whatever is a game.

[A]

Okay, who do you got next?

[B]

For the sheer pleasure of watching Anthony Edwards destroy people when he's in the mood to do it. I'm going to take the Minnesota Timberwolves and also to watch Rudy Gobert call for the ball a lot and not get it. It's a good time.

[A]

You know what we're learning with our league pass rankings. I'm more interested in the teams that are either different than they were the year before or are just super weird or. But you like to me I don't even really need to watch Minnesota that much because I know what they are, I know what I'm getting and I want to use my time to watch the weirdo teams like Charlotte. And then by January I'm going to be moving back toward the Minnesota.

[B]

That's fair. That's a good interesting approach to the season.

[A]

I also saw Minnesota in person and I just like when teams don't have a point guard that can do anything. It just physically hurts me.

[B]

Well isn't that kind of interesting? Like Anthony Edwards is now kind of is not kind of is the official point guard of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

[A]

He's not a point guard so he dribbles the ball up after a made basket or a rebound. That doesn't mean you're a point guard. You're a zero guard.

[B]

And so I watch them with the eye of what's the answer to this question? Do they need to do something? What couldn't they possibly do?

[A]

I think they're stuck with what they because they thought Rob Dillingham would become something and they don't play him.

[B]

They're playing him a little bit now. He's getting his chance now.

[A]

Going to have to. Let's take a break and then my next pick is worth a discussion. All right, Special part of today's episode. It's brought to you by Michelob Ultra. As the official beer partner of the NBA, they know the best moments on or off the court are served cold. So we're going to crack open a little six pack and was supposed to be at the biggest moments happening right now in the NBA, but we just did a whole podcast about that. We will have our coldest play of the day, which is going to be. I'm going to talk about six guys we just had to hand in our Ringer 100 rankings. Six guys that shocked me. I'm going to bounce these off you that I had on my list first. I had A.J. mitchell in my top hundred. I had him 82. Was he on your list?

[B]

89.

[A]

What were the. If we had done the over unders with House and I had said to you, by the way, in six weeks AJ Mitchell is going to be in my top 85 for ring 100. What were the odds have been like 50 to 1?

[B]

Probably longer than that.

[A]

I'm not even positive I knew what AJ Mitchell looked like.

[B]

He got in the finals game one, I think for a hot second, and it was like a complete disaster. And that was the end of the AJ Mitchell Finals experience. Look again, like 80, like 75 to 150. It's just eye of the beholder, prisoner of the moment, whatever. I mean, but those guys on Oklahoma, you don't get on the floor for the Thunder unless you are a winning basketball player. And he's been very good.

[A]

Number two, Con Canippo had 66 with VJ Edgecomb 67. And I wanted. I always mail my list to House because House will tell me and one other friend we have, House will always tell me, that's ridiculous. You can't do that. He's like my shit detector. Initially, I had Knipple and Edgecomb in my top 50 and he's like, that's ridiculous. They're rookies. You can't do that. So I put Knippel 66. Where did you have him? Higher. Where was he?

[B]

62.

[A]

Oh, fucking house.

[B]

He's really good.

[A]

And actually.

[B]

And he's been consistently really good.

[A]

So I handed this, I think Monday and he's had two really good games since. I think he's moving higher. He's just like our kind of player, like does everything rebounds, moves the ball correctly, open shooter, tries on defense. Okay, my third guy, I'm going to Go all the way up to number 26.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which is where I had Jalen Duran. Where did you have him?

[B]

That's pretty high. And I say that as a massive Jalen Duran fan. I don't know where I had Jalen Duran.

[A]

So it was two. So you had him probably in the 30s.

[B]

Lower than that. I don't want to say where I had Jalen Duran because it's too low. I'm a big. You got to prove it to me for a little longer guy. But he's top 50.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's top 50. 26. So that means you have him over like, bam, out of bio.

[A]

I had him Bam. Out of bio.27.

[B]

You have him over like, I'm giving the track record.

[A]

I had Aaron Gordon at 30.

[B]

I have Aaron Gordon 37. I'm giving the track record of guys like Jaren Jackson Jr. And Damonta Sabonis a little more leeway.

[A]

The Jaren Jackson Jr. Track record.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Of five rebounds a game and just fouling out.

[B]

He's made all star teams.

[A]

At some point, you got to blame him a little bit for him making max money and his team not winning. Really now for the entire 2025, Jalen.

[B]

Duran gets a lot of love in the rest of this podcast. You're going to hear it all.

[A]

Yeah. Next guy, fourth guy. I wanted to mention I had Deni Abdi at number 22.

[B]

That's high. Yeah, that's high.

[A]

I figured you would react that way.

[B]

But again, I'm more conservative, so I had people. I kept, like, proven veterans who have not played very much this year over Denny Odi did it last year. He's very good.

[A]

He's even gone up a higher level.

[B]

I had him in the 30s, to be clear. I had him in the 30s.

[A]

Just think he's can be. He's proven to me that he can be the best player on a good team. If you had a good team around him. I think he could be.

[B]

He's very good, actually. While doing. While doing these rankings right now. I actually had just in my head because of where they are in the rankings. In my rankings, they're near each other. It's like, what would happen if Atlanta called Portland. It was like, Trey Young for Denny. Obvious, straight up.

[A]

Portland hangs up.

[B]

Which is kind of a crazy thing to think about.

[A]

Right. I think Portland's like, let's talk about that New Orleans pick. What's happening there? Fifth guy I wanted to bring up. I had Shengoon 14. I don't.

[B]

I don't mind it. I had him 19.

[A]

I had him one behind Evan Mobley, and I had him one ahead of his teammate Kevin Durant. And I said Ahmed Thompson, 19, which means I had three rockets in the top 20, which makes sense because I think they're the third best team in the league.

[B]

That's bullish on those guys, but I think that's. I had actually Durant higher than you.

[A]

You value the years of experience results when you do these things.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know how to do the top 100. I'm new to the top 100, so I don't know how to do it.

[A]

I don't know how to do it either.

[B]

I try not to agonize too much over it because it could take up a whole week of your time, and I don't have that kind of time. Shen Goon is one of my biggest risers from end of last season to this season. He was high last season, but he's sniffing the top 10 conversation.

[A]

I had him in the low 40s after the season last year, so he's jumped the highest for me.

[B]

By the way, defensively, you hear no noise anymore about like. I don't know. He's like another Vuch. You can't build a good defense around him. He's like a pretty rugged, nimble.

[A]

He's at least a vertigo verticality part.

[B]

He knows where to go.

[A]

He tries. Yeah, he tries. He knows where to go and he tries. I do not think he's a minus defensive player.

[B]

I don't either.

[A]

Last guy I want to mention, number nine on my list, right after Stephen Curry. You might have heard of him. I have Cade Cunningham at him ninth.

[B]

I had Cade 12th.

[A]

So I had him ninth, Brunson 10th, Booker 11th.

[B]

I have Brunson eighth.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Cunningham 12, Booker 15th. The with Jalen, which, again, I don't. I'm not like, what did you do with Jalen? Williams hasn't played yet this year. I had him 13th. I didn't know where to put him.

[A]

And Mobley 13th. Still waiting for that last Moby League.

[B]

It's too low on Booker. 15 might be too low on Booker. Or do you have Maxie.

[A]

20Th?

[B]

I went head over heels on Maxi. I just. I went prisoner of the moment.

[A]

If you can play 40 minutes a game and run an offense and take every big shot down the stretch and just do it again a day later, I'm in. So that's what I had.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You good with that?

[B]

Austin Reeves, top 20?

[A]

No, but he was. Oh, my God.

[B]

I'm not asking.

[A]

I had him 32.

[B]

Ooh, I went 21.

[A]

21.

[B]

You just said if you can average 30 a game. He's averaging 28 points a game.

[A]

I thought from like 18 to 33. A lot of fluid. I was shocked by how deep and awesome the guys were.

[B]

Well, you also have things like, what do I even do with Kawhi Leonard anymore? Who when he plays is like, I.

[A]

Put him in the sixes. Did you put Joel Embiida in your list or not?

[B]

Yeah, he made my list. He I. With those guys, I just put them toward the end because it's like, I don't know. You're awesome, but I don't know what to do with you.

[A]

That's it for today's six pack. If you want even more, go grab yourself a pack of Michelob Ultra plus. They're getting you closer to the action than ever. With a chance to win exclusive prizes including courtside tickets and more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now michelobultra.com Courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526 no purchase necessary. Open to US residents. 21/plus. Begins on October 1, 2025. Ends on June 30, 2026. Breath multiple entry period. See official [e-mail] Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Thanks, Zach.

[B]

Well done.

[A]

My next pick. A team that I didn't think was going to be good. I've been surprised. They have a really, really good bench, which I didn't really see coming either. The Toronto Raptors.

[B]

Hey, there you go.

[A]

I like sheed in college and I remember he fell to like the mid-40s and he's just the classic. Like, why don't guys just. Why don't teams just take guys like this every year? He's going to be a fucking annoying pest on defense. This is like, look at Chris Dunn on the Clippers whose Chris Dunn's going to be in forever. Just look for guys who are going to be like Chris Dunn. That'll be like your 9th or 10th player on your team. He's going to have an impact anyway. He's on there mam. Who I know you love.

[B]

Love mama.

[A]

Just in general. Like they go nine, 10 deep, they haven't had an injury yet. And Scotty Barnes, even though his stats are basically identical except the field goal and threes are up a little, I just, I think he's gone up a level. And just from eye test. Right? Is that like the stats say? Not really, no.

[B]

You are reciting what I Said on my podcast that you didn't listen to yesterday or two days ago. Whenever it was, you look at the numbers and you're like, oh, same guy. I watch him play. I just see a much more sophisticated, engaged basketball player. I love the way he's played this game.

[A]

That's a good way. Sophisticated and engaged, unselfish. There's a physicality with him.

[B]

Right. Decisions guarding the hell out of everybody on defense, flying around. I love the way he's played.

[A]

He was one of my least favorite expensive players to watch and now he's off that list. I did not think. I remember Perk said top six. Yeah. And I was like, that's ridiculous. They're probably going to be top six. I might have lost that one. It might be 01 against perk.

[B]

Long season.

[A]

Long season.

[B]

Long season.

[A]

The bench helps them though, because even if one of those guys gets injured. And I'll say another thing, Brandon Ingram, who is available for a year, can go get a basket. Yeah, I think we kind of forgot that. It's like, I don't know if I'd be that fun to play with. He can't really guard anybody. He's got size, doesn't really rebound, but he can go get a basket.

[B]

They're making it work right now.

[A]

Yeah, I'm dubious long term, but with how weird the east is, maybe, and you look at the schedule, this is one of the things I remember this happened with Sacramento a couple years ago. You know, they play in Cleveland three times here in the first six weeks with no garland in any of the games.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they've already beat Cleveland twice. They got to play. I think in this whole stretch, Indiana twice, Brooklyn twice. Everything's kind of moved their way. There was one, one game they played Cleveland. There was no Mitchell in the Cleveland game. I think it's like the only game he hasn't played. So I think they can add up some wins before. I looked at their schedule in mid January and all of a sudden it's like the all time gauntlet where they're just playing every hard team.

[B]

I'm going to be there over the holidays and I have a great slate of Toronto games for the holidays.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Orlando, Golden State, Denver in Toronto over Christmas, New Year's. Great.

[A]

So could they be. Could they get to like 20 and 10 before the schedule gets hard? I think they could, yeah.

[B]

I mean, they're good. They have it working right now and I'll just say, just deep cut. I've enjoyed the last week of the Jacoby Walter Experience. I have my eye on it. I like what I'm seeing. You know, he and Grady Dick, it always seems to be like one or the other, you know, Grady Dick, like.

[A]

Crazy high net rating.

[B]

The whole bench. Mamu was, last time I checked was like plus 18 per hundred possessions.

[A]

That was a nice trade. Yeah. Toronto so far, I mean, they're 10 and 5. A couple of those games are down on the wire. Schedule's been easy, but they're definitely a little better than I thought. Who do you have for your next one?

[B]

I mean, this. You're just making this too easy for me and I'm being too boring. At some point, someone has to take the defending NBA champions who have the number one defense by such a margin that it is absolutely laughable. And just, I had him just for the sake of A, the Chet leap is kind of happening. B, it's just so fun to watch them get to a gear on defense where you can see the other team be like, we just got to go to the next game. Like, we can't even do anything. And they're just taking the ball. Run, take the ball, run, block, shot, run. It's just, if you like defense, it's just absolutely riveting tv.

[A]

To bring another boxing analogy that you probably won't get, sometimes there are these boxers. It's actually happening in UFC too. It happened with Islam last week. These boxers that are just awesome. And it's like you can either Islam and UFC like just, just kills everybody. He's like a takedown guy. And these guys always think they can like go stand up and that Islam's gonna fight. And then Islam just tackles them and they're on the ground for five minutes just like getting worked. And then the round ends and the next round happens the same thing. I personally don't love watching Islam. I would much rather watch stand up punching guys. But some people are like, this is the greatest fucking thing I've ever seen. And I think OKC is kind of like that. If you like watching. Well, but I think if you like watching an awesome, awesome, awesome defensive basketball team with a transcendent guard, just day to day, just fucking kill teams. This is your team.

[B]

Well. And yeah, the transcendent guard's a big part of it because they also have star power in the traditional sense of like highlights jaw dropping plays. And J Dub will add to that when he comes back. I just. Their defense is.

[A]

They're a nightmare.

[B]

They are.

[A]

And that's the A.J. mitchell thing. Out of nowhere. That was, I mean, that was the big wrinkle.

[B]

And I like where the role players played like Casen Wallace is fun to watch. Aaron Wiggins comes in and puts his team forward.

[A]

This is the right time.

[B]

There are 103 points allowed per 100 possessions on defense. And number two is 109.6. I mean, that's just absolutely crazy.

[A]

Yeah, I was thinking like in the mid-90s, that would have been like 79 compared to everyone else. All right, I'm going to take Philly just because of Maxi and Edgecomb. I also enjoy Quentin Grimes. I can't decide if it's a constant trade showcase for them or not. It's obviously way more fun when Embiid doesn't play for them because it's a bummer to watch Embiid crowd likes the team. I think the Philly home games have been really fun. Crowds into it, they're like, we like these guys. The minutes with them are hilarious. You see Maxey's over 40 minutes a game. Edge combs at 37 as a rookie. He's 20 years old. I don't know if that's sustainable. I think this team. I think there's a world where this team tails off. I think they have their pick, right?

[B]

I believe so.

[A]

There's a world where this team throws.

[B]

Their heads top to them. I think it's top. No, they don't have their pick. I think they owe it to somebody.

[A]

Do they? I think it's. Tell me.

[B]

No, I think it is okc.

[A]

No. Come on, don't do that to us. I'm looking at my draft capital. Do you have a draft capital, Doc?

[B]

No, I just go to real gm.

[A]

Philly.

[B]

Yeah, Oklahoma City. Top four.

[A]

Protected. Yeah.

[B]

So last year was top six, remember? And that was the drama. This year it's top four. So it's much more like it's certainly going to Oklahoma City this year.

[A]

So okc. I think I knew this. And I think I took pills. Nobody.

[B]

Yeah, nobody wants to think about it. The Clippers, Sixers. There's even like a weird Jazz scenario where if the Jazz are better than expected, Oklahoma City can end up with another lottery pick.

[A]

It honestly might be frame them for some sort of illegal NBA thing where they'd have to have pick suspended time.

[B]

You can't joke about that right now.

[A]

Can another team do that?

[B]

What?

[A]

Can't they just, like use AI to fake some Sam Presti calls? Just take the team down. What else is left? How do we stop this team?

[B]

How many fan bases do you want to piss off? And you Want to sabotage the Hawks Pelicans. You want to go back in time and sabotage the Hawks Pelicans trade, and now you want to frame.

[A]

This is a credit to Sam Presti and okc. Like, the only way to stop them is to frame them for some sort of NBA crime.

[B]

If you're going to Quantum Leap this, you have to go back. Wait, Quantum Leap was back in time ahead of time? I don't know what Scott Bakula did in Quantum Leap. I can't remember. Is that Scott Bakula?

[A]

Right. He would either go back or forward.

[B]

You gotta go help people, too. You gotta go back and, like, tell the Nets, don't do this. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett trade. Don't do it. You gotta go back.

[A]

And I would tell them to do it.

[B]

I know you would, but you gotta.

[A]

Pick a couple people to help the ballmer. One definitely. Like, don't put the 25 in there. Kawhi. Just don't. Don't put that one in. Keep that one for yourself.

[B]

All right, I'm going wacky now. Do you have more to say?

[A]

I said, Philly, no, you're up. No, I just said Maxi and Edgecombe are worth the press.

[B]

What do you even think of Philly, like, as a team?

[A]

I think the identity of that team, which is yet to find its full fruition, yet will be a delight when they end up with the three guards and people who run and nick Nurse. That's going to be a fun something. It'll be the post Embiid era, which is probably already.

[B]

So you're still just like, this is a placeholder. This team can't do anything.

[A]

No, because nobody would ever take Embiid or George ever.

[B]

I'm saying Embiid and George remain on the team. There's no, like.

[A]

Oh, you mean, like, there's. Oh, my God. Embiid's looking great. I think it's done. Did you see him use the one leg? He was playing on one leg.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

I was, like, dragging the other leg. Like, Duncan did this for the last, what, five years of his career where it seemed like one of his legs just didn't really work anymore. And he made it work. It's a little different for Embiid. Who do you have next?

[B]

I'm going a little bit off the board now. Yeah, Miami.

[A]

I had them as my next one.

[B]

Well, I stole them.

[A]

They're fun to watch.

[B]

Super fast fun. Hawkes resurgence. Hawkes resurgence. Simone Fontechio, just shooting a million threes per 36.

[A]

Andrew Wiggins, a Little happier.

[B]

Looks great. Bam's back. Ware is averaging like 18 rebounds a game over the last week. Tyler Herro's coming back. That's an interesting plot twist.

[A]

Rozier. Oh, sorry. Wow.

[B]

And Norm Powell. Maybe he makes his all star team this year. I don't know.

[A]

So talk about going back in time and stopping something.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

John Collins and Bradley Beal for Norm.

[B]

Powell basically didn't work out.

[A]

As you know, I don't like Miami or their fans. This team is very fun to watch.

[B]

Very fun to watch. They brought back the Miami Vice jerseys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Huge.

[A]

I'm really glad that Hawkez is good at basketball again, because I really enjoyed him as a rookie.

[B]

Pella Larson.

[A]

Pella Larson's interesting. And as you know, I mean, we always joke about islands. What warranted an island? Davey on Mitchell Island. I mean, I basically had to fold. Was done. It was. There were no people living there anymore.

[B]

But he's back and always, always frisky on the trade market when they have stuff that.

[A]

I have Utah as my next pick.

[B]

Oh, they were going to be my next pick. So we're. Now we're going off the board. Utah is.

[A]

I don't know if you noticed, but I took Charlotte, like, seventh, so I've been going off the board this whole time. Yeah, listen, it's the first six weeks of the season. I'm just. The heart wants what the heart wants. Utah marketing's playing great.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

The Kessler thing, which was a bummer.

[B]

It is a bummer.

[A]

Weirdly made them more interesting because now just lineups and I don't know what's going on.

[B]

What do you think? Markkanen is averaging points per game.

[A]

He's 30.

[B]

30.6.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Night after night. 30 a game. Cante George isn't my cup of tea, but he's been really good.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I don't know if you're winning three straight playoff rounds with the best version of him seven years from now, but he's definitely better. I mean, that's definitely an asset for them. I don't know what. What player from the past would you compare him to from a ceiling standpoint?

[B]

That's a.

[A]

Like, what are the best version of his stats someday? Like, 24 and 8. Yeah, 20. Yeah, something like that. Is the team winning?

[B]

I don't see why not. He's a completely different guy this year in terms of his approach to him.

[A]

It's a huge win for them.

[B]

Look, Ace Bailey's playing.

[A]

Ace Bailey started the other day.

[B]

Kevin Love's Involved Slow Mo's back.

[A]

Involved Kevin Love.

[B]

And either they score 140 points or the other team scores 140 points or both.

[A]

They put a 150 plus burger on somebody last week.

[B]

Yeah. It was an overtime game.

[A]

Okay. You touched. You take them or I take them?

[B]

You took them.

[A]

It's about to get dark.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And before we should speed round this.

[B]

Before it gets dark. All right, let's speed through it. I'll take Cleveland. Boring but good.

[A]

Yeah, it's just early on with no garland.

[B]

It's hasn't been that fun, but they're, you know, they're fun. Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell. Heaters are really fun. What an incredible shot maker that dude is. The guy just makes three. Both threes and shots at the rim. The degree of difficulty. And he makes it look easy. Like some of these pull up threes in traffic that he's hitting are like, this is a crazy shot for a six three. Whatever he is guard to hit.

[A]

They're going to get all their guys back and win like 15 straight in like January. It'll be one of those where it's like, oh, Cleveland, they've won 12 straight. They have. You know, and then that'll just happen. I have Dallas next. More from a train wreck standpoint. But just for flag scouting, I don't really like anything else that's going on with this team. Dlo. It looks like the train has finally reached the last station.

[B]

Had a big game last night.

[A]

Oh, did he? I didn't even see.

[B]

He did. And yet another in another loss, they lost at the buzzer to the Nets.

[A]

I thought that was the worst call of the year.

[B]

Which one? The foul?

[A]

The fat? The offensive foul? The game?

[B]

The hook on Brandon Williams.

[A]

Yeah. First of all, they call that one out of every five times. But to call that on that moment when he's about to score a game time basket, like, ridiculous.

[B]

Hey, look, you win the lottery from the 10th spot.

[A]

Yeah. You're not allowed to.

[B]

You can take a couple bad calls. That's a high pick for Dallas. They are a rough.

[A]

I just talk a lot. Flag scouting only. No other reason. Just checking in with him, seeing what's going on. Being relieved they weren't playing him at point guard anymore. Thank God. Thank you for not playing him out of position and ruining his confidence. Who do you have next?

[B]

Giannis is hurt, but he's still Giannis. I'll take the Bucs and Giannis and the Kuzma revival, baby.

[A]

Yeah. Until he goes like 0 for 6 one day.

[B]

I don't know where he's back and Ryan Rollins is. Ryan Rollins is the real thing.

[A]

Did you have him in your ringer 100?

[B]

I don't think so because I did. I'd like to see it a little more time.

[A]

I had them in there. Portland's my next one.

[B]

They're the. See, of all the teams that's left, Portland is the correct pick.

[A]

Back to my boxing analogy. They're in fun games over and over again. They seem to be in these games that come down to the last five minutes I've watched. I'm not saying I'm watching entire Portland games, but I've watched a lot of the fourth quarters and OTs that they've been in.

[B]

The scoot thing is lingering.

[A]

Well, it's an injury that they always say four weeks and then it's like 12.

[B]

I just would like to see scoot.

[A]

I know they're fun.

[B]

Portland is super fun to watch. They're starting to get the injury thing. Like Sharp was out last night. Drew's been out the last couple games. They're starting to just not have a lot of guys.

[A]

Abdia was a borderline, like 13b a guy for the first five weeks of the season. I can't believe how good he is now. And House was saying that this was a version of this was lurking in him in Washington. You could see it. But I don't think even House, nobody thought he was going to be a 25 a game guy.

[B]

That trade, I've talked about it on my pod. That trade was polarizing when it happened among front office people. I got it for both teams and just remember thinking like, this guy's good and his contract is crazy. Like Avdia's contract is crazy good. He's a very good player.

[A]

That's one of those. If OKC was worse, he just Presti would have gotten them somehow. Like, yeah, we'll take him. Sounds great, but he doesn't need them because he's got 50.

[B]

I'm mad you took Portland because we've now reached the point where it's getting. I'm not that excited on this. I'm excited to watch any basketball. Just we're now reaching the point where I'm not that excited. I will take Phoenix.

[A]

I had them next.

[B]

Workmanlike, dependable, gritty. This is the team Matt Ishba said he was going to put together, that they were going to put together tough. A team the city can be proud of. They play hard, they defend. They have a transcendent goal. They have a Highlight machine. They said they just. Dylan Brooks is causing a ruckus at the minute he gets out on the court. They're fun to watch.

[A]

Grayson Allen's been rejuvenated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Booker finally looks like he's one of the best players in the league. Who's not one of the top best players in the league. But that next level, he's back in that conversation again. He was not for the last two years for me. Yeah. The Suns fans could settle down like a whiff.

[B]

Gillespie. How about Gillespie?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well.

[A]

But it's like on the one hand, yeah, we're way more likable this year and we might have a chance to win between 35 and 40 games. Right.

[B]

The schedule is about to get hellish.

[A]

For them in hba. The chest is out a little. Is out before the year. You did trade all your picks and all your swaps for the next six, seven years. Like, I'm glad you're more watchable. But settle down would be my advice to everybody involved, including Eddie Johnson, my arch nemesis. That Eddie Johnson just needs. What a. He just needs to settle down.

[B]

Don't tempt Ishbiya. Don't tempt him because he's been quiet. He's been quiet.

[A]

Just play it cool, man.

[B]

But he has been playing. Have you heard from him for a while? No.

[A]

Just let the team speak for itself. It's a way more likable team. Your stars reengaged just by the way. Maliich doesn't play.

[B]

No. Well, they have three centers, three rotation centers ahead of him and they knew he was going to be one of them.

[A]

They should trade because there's a lot of teams that need centers. All right. It's really rough now. I'm going to take New Orleans next just because for the same train wreck first seven weeks of the year. Just watching different. Like I wanted to see Queen, who only recently started playing Fears is better than I thought. Although he's another one where I'm not what you're sealing as a team. If he has the ball all the time, probably not that high.

[B]

We don't got to worry about that yet.

[A]

I'm just thinking like eight years from now. But he's better than I thought and he's competitive. You know, Zion will come back eventually. This team could be higher on my next time we do this.

[B]

Zion came back last night and looked okay. Still. He looked good. He looked good. He's a good player. He just hasn't reached the level he was at before the injury in the play, in games.

[A]

You Trade for him?

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Would you trade Kaminga in a contract for him?

[B]

Okay, stop.

[A]

Why stop?

[B]

I don't.

[A]

If you're like a smart, good team with a great training staff, you wouldn't roll the dice.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Would you trade Jalen Green for him?

[B]

Would I trade Jalen Green for Zion?

[A]

I have no idea what his trade value is. Would you trade Michael Porter Jr. For him?

[B]

Probably not. Probably not.

[A]

This is really depressing. Jalen Green, would you trade Anthony Simons in a contract for him? Yeah. Oh, okay. We're here. We've arrived. Why not? Anthony Simons?

[B]

He's non guaranteed. His deal is non guaranteed after this year as it is. It has that weird thing where it cycles every year.

[A]

Did I tell you? Well, my next pick. Oh, no. You have a pick? Yeah, I'll do it when we do our next pick. New Orleans is a sad situation. The crowd has never seemed more depressed or empty. It's really dark.

[B]

But Queen is good.

[A]

Queen's good.

[B]

Let's zoom out. The main plot point is the idea.

[A]

Of the train is good. The idea made sense.

[B]

And Queen and Zion looked like a good offensive tandem.

[A]

Really, like last night, all the ringer draft guys like Queen. Like, we all like Cleen.

[B]

They're just, you know, what's one small thing I really wish for the Pelicans? I just really wish that alleged shooting guard Jordan Hawkins could make more shots. That's all. Just every time he comes in, he's like. He just missed like seven more shots.

[A]

Not good for two years.

[B]

I know. All right, we have reached the by default stage of this draft. I will by default take a team who fell 11 spots from my preseason rankings. Orlando. Yes to now, the Orlando Magic. It's just been.

[A]

It's awful to watch.

[B]

It's just been not fun.

[A]

It's awful to watch.

[B]

And I thought the.

[A]

None of them seem happy either.

[B]

I thought the project of the puzzle solving nature of this would make for exciting night to night watching and it just hasn't. In part because they're struggling. Like they can't find the corner pieces anywhere. The puzzle's not really being solved. Suggs is like. I guess Suggs just can't play back to backs ever and will be on. His minutes are going up, but is he ever gonna just be a full time 35 minute a game player ever again?

[A]

They had a really, really fun game against Houston that I watched the second half in the OT of and I was like, all right, there's hope.

[B]

There's hope. I mean, there's not. No hope at all. They're over 508 and 7.

[A]

Yeah. But you know who they remind me of?

[B]

This is a watchability rating.

[A]

You know who they remind me of? Sadly? The year Kyrie's last Celtic year, when Hayward came back and you watched them and it just was off. And it was like, this feels off. What's off about this? All of these guys are good. I'm watching this and something doesn't add up. And nobody seems really that happy on a basketball court. And something's what's missing. And you just kind of stared at it for three months and there was no answer. And then it started to leak out that this guy's unhappy. That guy's unhappy. This guy thought he was gonna get more shots. I just wonder with Orlando, like, there's a happiness quotient with them that I.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I'm. I'm in LA watching this team on my tv. Like, I'm not an expert on this, not in the locker room, but something just feels off with. From a basketball playing standpoint, I'm giving it more time.

[B]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just giving it more time because they have found a way to get to 8 and 7, which makes them a game out of fourth in the East. So I'm just. Let's just see. See if the defense.

[A]

Dan hasn't played. He hasn't shot well.

[B]

No. Let's see how the defense, if it can find something like its level from the last couple seasons and it's starting to trend a little bit more that way.

[A]

One more break and then we'll do the end. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Every time I sit down and watch the game, I find myself getting a little hungry. Football and food just go together. Luckily, Uber Eats has game day deals all season long on the food you love. Like right now, you can get a buy one, get one free three piece tenders combo from Popeyes. Mm, Popeyes. Whether you're ordering from your favorite restaurant or getting snacks from the grocery store, Uber Eats has you covered for game day. Order now on Uber Eats promotion available until November 30th. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Terms apply. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like needing the protection of an offensive guard on the football field, but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe. When the game is on the line. So don't settle for just any insurance when you can have State Farm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Well, there's seven teams left. I'm going to take the Boston Celtics.

[B]

Shocker. I couldn't believe you took them off the board.

[A]

For me, the last watchable team because the bottom six are brutal. Celtics. Here's what's going on with the Celtics. That's actually kind of fun and I've actually weirdly enjoyed this season, but I'm not. I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.

[B]

It's definitely not for everybody.

[A]

Keita a real guy and his advanced metrics are just jaw dropping. He has some of the best advanced metrics in the league. It makes no sense. Pritchard and White have a history of those guys. Jaylen Brown has been, I think, a really good scorer as a number one option. We'll see when they play some of the harder teams.

[B]

I've liked Jaylen Brown's season overall.

[A]

I like how he's playing. Like I was thinking about it watching the. Being at that Nets game the other night. He was like really patiently getting good shots and creating good things. I was like, this guy, he's getting it. Hugo. I like. I like Josh Minot.

[B]

Now we're getting. Now we're getting to.

[A]

No just as energy. Random guys, but it's. The team tries hard. They're over 500 miraculously. I don't know how much longer that's going to last. My dad not as happy though. No, no. He doesn't like what Joe's coaching this year.

[B]

Why? What's the grip?

[A]

He's threatening to demote. I'm going to have to have him on. He's really upset with the Simon's yo yo routine with Joe. I don't know if Joe likes Simons, but it's really upsetting my dad. My dad's like he had 25 in the first half against Orlando and Joe's buried him ever since. Makes no sense.

[B]

It is. I had this conversation with some people who are. Who have come through here recently. It is almost jarring what a non impact he's had on the team for 75% of the season. Just like he'll pop in a game and then it'll be like he played 16 minutes last night was two of seven. I had one scout who was in town last week. We had lunch and he was like, I think they should maybe start him over. Pritchard, just to see.

[A]

That's what my dad says.

[B]

If they can get him going that way and get him more engaged. And I know they're loyal to Pritchard. Pritchard's been good though. Pritchard's just a team competitive, feistier player than Anthony.

[A]

The team would be better if they started Simons. But my dad doesn't think Joe likes him.

[B]

I mean the minutes I'm not worried.

[A]

About this being aggregated because my dad turns 78 next week and I don't think people really ultimately care what my dad thinks. But my dad who goes to the games and watches them is very upset with Joe's treatment assignments.

[B]

Well, the minutes would suggest he doesn't have a huge amount of faith in him as a winning.

[A]

You scored 25 points in the first half and zero points in the second half and don't get any minute. That's just weird. I don't think Joe likes it.

[B]

You did text me earlier this week that you wanted me to start the Jordan Walsh first team all defense campaign on my podcast.

[A]

So Jordan Walsh did had this moment against Maxi for three straight minutes. That was the most exciting moment of the Celtic. The real Celtic fans know what I'm talking about. Where he just became Jonathan Isaac three years ago. Remember that Jonathan Isaac stretch where we were like oh my God. And Joe has overreacted to it and started Jordan Walsh in the Nets game. To me he's like there's certain guys in the league where you bring him in and you throw him on and.

[B]

If you're you guarded, harden a game later.

[A]

And decently the one I'm really interested is SGA when they play them to watch him try to guard because on paper the kind of guy nobody's guarding sga but you want taller and you want to reach and you want him to hop around. I think he's like an elite defensive player. Not sure what else is there.

[B]

Is the SGA thing is that you trying to brainwash a Western Conference team to trade like two first round picks for Jordan Walsh? We need an SGA stopper for the playoffs.

[A]

I will say this though, I'm glad you brought that up. I do think he has value for a really good team because I think he can come in.

[B]

I knew it.

[A]

No, but I wouldn't trade him though, unless it was like a stupid offer. I think he went from like he's a G league guy to wow, this guy can actually guard real scorers. Like what he did to Maxey. I was shocked by. I think Maxey was shocked.

[B]

Are you at all concerned that Scheireman is On the fringes of all this in year two.

[A]

I'm not seeing it with him.

[B]

Okay, so he was what, 30th pick?

[A]

So it's, you know, I'm going to whisper this one. I'm not seeing it with Garza either. I don't think there's anything there. From what I've seen so far, I wish him the best. Hauser's the one that, you know that like, for some reason, gravity has become the term of the year in the NBA. And everybody you watch the studio shows gravity. This guy's gravity, Steph Curry's gravity. They miss Jason Tatum's gravity. I'm not buying the gravity thing. It is interesting to watch these guys who were awesome 3 point shooters when all of a sudden they're in a normal basketball situation and the percentages go from 44 to 33. Because guess what? When you're on a worst team, one out of every ten of your threes now are going to be terrible shots. And that's going to go down.

[B]

The old usage versus efficiency trade off. Derek White, in related News, is shooting 31% on threes and 43% on twos.

[A]

Out of every 10 shots he took. Look, last year there was one wide open, awesome shot. So it'd be like nine shots and then this wide open, awesome shot that he usually made. And now that shot doesn't exist. Who do you have?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So just for the people listening, we have six teams left. The Nets, the Wizards, the Pacers, the Grizzlies, the Kings, and the Clippers.

[B]

Can I pass?

[A]

No.

[B]

Washington.

[A]

A scouting thing.

[B]

Just. Just. Let's watch some young guys Play. Yeah, can A.J. johnson get some minutes? Can we just go full entertainment? What are we winning? It's your one in 12. Can we give AJ Johnson some minutes?

[A]

The problem is they have seven guys who are the same guy. And I don't know. You can't like play more than two of those guys at the same time. Why not? If you made me say no, what.

[B]

Wizards fan in the crowd is being like, this is just. We can't play this lineup against this team. There's Wizards fans don't even know who's on their own team. There's like eight guys who know who's on the team.

[A]

Does Sar do anything for you?

[B]

Yeah, I've always liked Sar. Sar's good.

[A]

Sar's good. Redraft. I think he's won.

[B]

It's not a great draft.

[A]

It's not a great draft, but I think he's won. Would you rather have Reese Sachet or Shepherd? Shepherd.

[B]

Just for the upside right now, I think Reese Sachet is a, a stone cold lock to be a good rotation player, a good starter. I don't know. There's a lot of.

[A]

I think from what I've seen this year and his age, I think, and both of them are young. I think Shepard, I think I would have him second when he would have been like 10th. If we did this two months ago.

[B]

Where would you have T. John Solan of your Charlotte Hornets?

[A]

There's some moments in the G League.

[B]

There'S some moments, okay, I'm taking Washington over all these other teams. Trey J. Just, you know, they are.

[A]

You know what Reed Shepard needs to, he needs to. They need to show him like 100 hours of John Stockton being a dick. Footage. John Stockton setting hard screens and putting his elbow in. John Stockton tripping dudes. Like, he needs to embrace his asshole John Stockton side. That's the next thing for him. Feisty. I know I'm undersized, but I'll fight you.

[B]

This is the.

[A]

I always felt like John Stockton never got enough credit for that. Just like a mean spirited player.

[B]

We're at the point of the show where if you want to put CJ McCollum in a fake trade, this is.

[A]

The time to do it.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Poor C. I think I've put him in more fake trades than any player in the history of the league.

[B]

He certainly thinks you have.

[A]

I know, but most of the time it was justified and he did get traded. It's tough. I don't see it. I think he's a buyout guy and I think teams would just go like, we'll get him in the end of February.

[B]

Sadly, I feel the same way about Middleton, who looks like he's moving in molasses and Corey Kispert suddenly is a non factor. The veterans are not doing a ton for the young guys.

[A]

I think this might be the way it plays out with the Celtics, with Simons. It might be a buyout thing where.

[B]

That would be disappointing from their perspective.

[A]

Yeah, but it might be how it plays out considering his minutes have been yanked around. And I also don't think. I still think a lot of teams have the $27 million salary spot to flip.

[B]

I know who you're taking next, by the way. I know what you're going to do.

[A]

I'm taking the Clippers.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's amazing how I had done 27th and they were actually 21st in my preseason, so I was not excited to watch them off the jump. I had them 27th among these dregs and I was like, I didn't even think that hard about it. It's just not fun to watch. No, it's just, it's a chore.

[A]

I burned out on Harden like six years ago, so that part's not great. But I couldn't put them below any of the next four teams. I don't know what the Clippers do. They don't have their pick, as we mentioned nine times.

[B]

Well, this. But that is. They are one of the. Not only do they not have their pick, they have this whole thing hanging over them. Right. Like what's going to happen? Is this investigation going to amount to anything? What's going to happen? Derek Jones Jr. Out six weeks.

[A]

I honestly don't think they care. I think ballmers be like whatever. I mean if they get. They don't even have any picks to be penalized from, they get fined. Bombers Rich, they do have picks they get banned from. What are they going to take their 20, 32 first?

[B]

But that would really be devastating for them if they did.

[A]

I don't think he's doing that okay.

[B]

I mean I think it could be.

[A]

A huge fine and he's banned from going to the games for a year, something like that.

[B]

I do, I do think he cares that they are. I mean I said this earlier in the week. The best thing they have going for them is they're 11th. The four teams below them are in just as much if not a worse situation, just as much shit as they.

[A]

Are in these games. They're not getting killed.

[B]

Utah's 5 and 9. Portland's now 6 and 9. The sun schedule's about to toughen up. It's like by default they should be a play in team. Like they shouldn't have to do anything crazy to make the play in. Yeah, but.

[A]

And I don't think these two big expiring contracts that they can take a swing.

[B]

If they're bad, like this bad, they're going to do something. Because as much as you think they might be realistic about what their chances actually were, and I think they were pretty realistic. I don't think they expected anything like this. I mean this is. And then you throw in the Beal Disaster Jones injury.

[A]

Well, look at their losses. Utah opening night, not great.

[C]

Awful.

[B]

As bad loss for an allegedly good.

[A]

Team as you'll see at Colin State Home. Miami lost by one. Okc. No shame in that.

[B]

No.

[A]

At Phoenix, mildly shameful.

[B]

Got swept by Phoenix.

[A]

That was home for Phoenix. Now a little Shamey Hawks, not surprised. Denver, not surprised. Beat Dallas in two OTs and lost to the Celtics and Sixers by three and two in games. I watched both of those fourth quarters. Those games were closed.

[B]

The Celtics one was kind of one of those miracle. It was like a 10 point game and then they just went down. Yeah, they did okay. I don't know.

[A]

I don't think it's as. I don't think it's as bleak as it seems. But they do have the next four in the road and two home and then the next five on the road ending with Minnesota and okc. So you're right. But the ship might have sailed.

[B]

I don't want to pick anybody.

[A]

I would say they're number one for panic trade for me though.

[B]

I mean, look, I put them. I made a fake Anthony Davis trade for them right away and just because I just think this is untenable for them. No, I think they keep Zubats.

[A]

Why do I do that if I'm Dallas?

[B]

What are they getting? I don't think there's like a big. I said I don't think they're going to get a mother load for Anthony Davis. The contract and the looming age.

[A]

Would you take Zubots and John Collins and some swap and nine years from now and that's it? I don't even know if that's legal in the cap, but something of that vicinity I would love to get. Would you rather have Zubots at the price he's at with coming up for a new contract or Anthony Davis zoo, I think. Right. So. But that would be the panic trade. So maybe it's just Zubots and John Collins for Anthony Davis.

[B]

See that? I feel like they just don't think that does enough for them. It has to be more additive than that.

[A]

All right, who do you have with the 27th pick in our draft?

[B]

I gotta cross off the Clippers. Okay. I guess I will go Memphis just for the theater of Jamrant. Is this gonna be a defcon one, Jahtoons out the coach game or a Defcon three? Jah tunes out the coach game. And how is that gonna, you know, manifest itself in the game?

[A]

I don't know how this straight up and Edie's back.

[B]

Edie's back.

[A]

I like, I'm interested in.

[B]

I'm interested in Edey.

[A]

I don't understand how this is a strategy that succeeds. Like if there was some podcaster that was trying to.

[B]

Oh, and Cedric Cowan. I should have mentioned that right off the bat. That guy's good.

[A]

Draft there's some podcaster that's like, I don't want to be here anymore. I'd like to go to a place like the Ringer. And we listened to the podcast and he was just mailing it in and acting crazy in the podcast and doing weird shit.

[B]

I'm banking this in my head for like a year or two from now.

[A]

No, I just wouldn't be like, oh, man, I hope that guy becomes available. We could turn him around. Like, people have scouts at these games watching, you know, John Morant just not look like he gives a shit.

[B]

Well, how about John morant shooting like 30% for the season?

[A]

How about the history of super explosive guards as they hit their late twenties who have had a lot of injuries? Like, there's red flags all over the place, not to mention all the other shit that happened with them. I don't think it's going to be a hard one to trade. I have Sacramento as my next team. There's no reason other than there's only a couple teams left. I do like watching Doug Christie coaching, I think, has been pretty funny. I like the shots of Vivek just silently stewing in his courtside seat. Has been hilarious.

[B]

I wonder if he's sitting there thinking, I wonder if he's so delusional that he's sitting there when he's stewing like that. The stewing is not. Boy, our roster sucks. And I. And I made some bad calls. It's like, man, if we just fucking coach. If we just had a better fucking coach, you know, like, maybe I should.

[A]

They like Doug Christie.

[B]

Who could I go back? Is Jaeger available? Is Michael Malone available? Who did we fire? Who did we fire that's available? Because I think this team, like, there's something here. If we just had the right coach to get it. We're 3 and 12 with a minus 12 point differential. But if we just tweak the offense a little bit, tweak the sub patterns.

[A]

No, I think it's more like when Keegan Murray comes back, this is all going to fall into place.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, that's what.

[A]

We just need Keegan back.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think in the coaches meetings before the game, they just pick a number out of a hat and that's how many minutes Keon Ellis is going to play on that particular.

[A]

I would have already traded for him.

[B]

Seven. Seven minutes tonight.

[A]

I would have already traded for him tonight.

[B]

The other 29 minutes and he starts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Great train wreck potential. All right, then. The last two picks are Indiana and Brooklyn.

[A]

No, I'm up. I have two picks left.

[B]

Didn't you just pick the Kings?

[A]

We have three picks left. You took the Kings.

[B]

Oh, I took Memphis.

[A]

You took the Kings. Oh, I did take the Kings. There's two picks left.

[B]

Then I will just honor the defending Eastern Conference champions by saving them the indignity of not going last.

[A]

I didn't realize that they moved the Tanks to Indy until like a couple days after it happened that the Tanks got brought into the state of Indiana.

[B]

Well, they're getting healthier now though, eh?

[A]

I think they've made their decision on what they want to be this season and I fully support it.

[B]

And by the way, there's no better.

[A]

Tanking situation ever than the most beloved finals loser we've probably ever had. With the start to fish finish, awesome season, tragic ending, iconic all time Pacers team. This would be the most beloved Pacers team they've ever had. And now they get to tank. It'll be over in five months, right? April 10, it's over. You can start watching college now. Enjoy yourselves, guys.

[B]

I mean, look, you and I are captains of the Tim Duncan is historically underrated brigade. Like Tim Duncan is a top whatever player.

[A]

Every year we lose people.

[B]

I don't say his name in vain. I don't mean to even bring up his name in this way. This could be the best single season tanking scenario since the spurs got Tim Duncan. This team coming back, you mean like.

[A]

A team being able to get a.

[B]

Major guy, a very clearly good team that is decimated, takes a gap year, miraculously gets its own 2026 pick back in a trade at the 2025 during the finals from. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

They made during the finals when we.

[B]

Were together not knowing that Tyrese Halliburton is about to get injured and that whole season is going to go up in smoke for them. Gets everyone healthy, they're not old and they're just like. We'll just add potentially the number one pick, the number three pick, the number four pick, a guy who can probably come in and give them real minutes next year. They're going to have to solve the center position, all that. But like it's honestly a pretty like of if, if you're going to suffer that kind of blow. And it was horrible and like it still gets talked about every time I go out for lunch or drinks or coffee with anybody. That injury and the what if of all that and that miraculous playoff run, it's a pretty good, I mean this is an objectively like people haven't wrapped their minds around it yet. But the Pacers are going to the Finals. Pacers are going to come back. Sands, Miles Turner. And with a top five pick. We started with the Nets and we end with the Nets.

[A]

I wish there was another team I could take. I keep looking. Is there another basketball team?

[B]

Can we count? Like the teams that the international teams that played exhibition games in the first year. Yep.

[A]

Still know their teams. I just think it's a disgrace.

[B]

Oh, come on.

[A]

This is the NBA. This is the NBA at its worst. A team that sucked for a couple years now and wanted to suck again. I don't understand. In a draft that had so many good players, that they took five guys, that not one of them has jumped out to me yet.

[B]

It's so early. It's so early.

[A]

I know, but it's just like. This is a disgrace of a team. It's just terrible what they did. I don't. This is the NBA.

[B]

So do their drafts.

[A]

We never solved the NBA correctly with shit like this. It's embarrassing to watch.

[B]

So if you do the draft over again, Coward is there for them at 8.

[A]

Listen, they passed on. Even if they had taken Murray Boyles or Coward. You have to think Demon is awesome. And I don't even know what position he is. He made a couple threes against Celtics, but for the most part, you know, it doesn't seem like he can shoot. And I'm not. It's not like he's an elite playmaker. I don't see it.

[B]

I'm just saying that's the one.

[A]

Because even if they had taken Derek Queen, it made more sense to me.

[B]

The other picks are 1922. I still like 27 who played. Talk about a guy who hasn't made an impression.

[A]

He hasn't played with Clifford like Gonzalez. But, like, why take all these guys who all play the same position? I don't. And then I just don't understand anything.

[B]

There's no one below 15, 16.

[A]

Yeah, after 15.

[B]

That is making.

[A]

But why keep all the picks?

[B]

I'm sure they tried something.

[A]

I don't think they tried anything. They were proud of. Like, we like all five of these guys. The whole thing was stupid.

[B]

Coward is the one that got away.

[A]

Horrible.

[B]

Because he looks like a star. I mean, a star. Yeah. Can you imagine how different the vibe would be in Brooklyn if one of those picks was Cedric Howard? There'd be legitimate. Like, Brooklyn has a guy, a homegrown guy.

[A]

Well, the other thing with Demon is they might have been able to get him later or use two picks to trade up for him. You know, also like, if Dumars wanted Queen that bad, why didn't you trade him the eighth pick?

[B]

Yeah, we'd have to do a whole he oral history of who called who when and how many teams knew. And you know, cause there was all the way up to Chicago. There was or down Chicago's.

[A]

Well, so he traded for the 13th pick to take Queen.

[B]

Yeah, Chicago's strong.

[A]

Would he have traded for the eighth pick to take Queen? Probably. And would you have done that if you're Brooklyn in five seconds? Also, if Joe Dumars takes over a team, I'm calling him constantly to make sure he's not going to do anything. I want to be his first trade.

[B]

Would they have just taken Queen at seven if they couldn't have acquired another first round pick with which to trade up?

[A]

Possibly.

[B]

I like Queen, but the Nets still have cap space.

[A]

That pick cost them one of those things. Well, they have cap space and the ability to maybe grab some more non lottery picks that are not going to play for you.

[B]

You do wish. Even after 20 games, Joman is the closest one. That's like he's had a couple of moments. You just do what like every time Drake Powell gets on the floor and does anything, like gets a stop, Nets fans are like, see Drake Powell, it's like, yeah, he scored four points. For a team that like doesn't really have anybody right now, the more defensible.

[A]

One is Porter has played better. Porter irrefutably than Cam Johnson.

[B]

Porter's been very good.

[A]

Cam Johnson struggled early. I still, I love that trade for Denver, but if you're Brooklyn, you have to be delighted with Porter.

[B]

I liked that trade for Brooklyn. I. You and I disagreed heartily on that. I liked it for both teams.

[A]

You like Porter more?

[B]

I liked it for both teams. I just like, I think the pick they got is potentially super valuable and you know, we'll see. It's 2032 pick edges. No, no. Clowney's playing well. Did that do anything for you? Walking by Barclays center and seeing a giant Noah Clowney with his arms folded, looking tough, like this is come, come, come. Yeah.

[A]

I like Clowney and he's going to have a moment for somebody because he's like the kind of, kind of aggro, feisty guy.

[C]

He's.

[A]

He'll mix it up. Prediction of the year right here. Clowney, Ron Holland, they're going to mix it up at some point. Maybe Isaiah Stewart will come in.

[B]

If Isaiah Stewart comes In that's not going to go well for no clowney. As big as social media, two on one tag team.

[A]

Well, then Nick Claxton will come in on the other side and there'd just be a lot of, like, a lot of this happening.

[B]

Nick Claxton alternates just from afar between the polls of. It's kind of fun. Like these young guys. Like, I really care about Brooklyn. I care about this franchise. And, like, I'm trying my best to be a role model and just dejected. Like, man, I can't believe. I just can't believe I'm still here and this is what the team is.

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't. From what I've seen from an energy slash demeanor standpoint, I wouldn't be frothing at the mouth to try to trade for Nick Claxton. Tough one, though. Take the money. Can't blame him for that. All right, we're wrapping up. Do you want to. You don't have another podcast this week, right?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Do you want to do one big prediction for the weekend before we go?

[B]

Sure. I haven't looked at any of the games already started. A prediction in general with the Friday nights biggest league.

[A]

No, not even for a game. Biggest league story you're monitoring over the next few days that you're the most interested in.

[B]

Can you go first or I'll go first. Biggest league story.

[A]

Well, the most fun thing is the Detroit streak.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

They're at 11. Whether Toronto is for real, I think they're going to beat a couple of these bad teams, and them being 12 and five I think is interesting. Houston always. But number one is LeBron.

[B]

Number one fitting in, not fitting out. And I will go like, how do the Bucks fare without Giannis for an extended stretch of time? Can they tread water even if it's just six, seven games? Is it zero and six or is it three and three?

[A]

Zero and six could.

[B]

Yikes, that's a good one. Denver Houston on Friday is appointment viewing. Is that the first.

[A]

Like, I changed my flight going home to make sure even if it was delayed, I wasn't gonna miss any of that game.

[B]

I remember flying back from LA two seasons ago and realizing two days before that it was the first Denver Boston game of the year. We all thought Denver and Boston were gonna meet in the finals, and I couldn't change my flight. And the WI Fi worked just well enough that I could stream the game. It was a great game, too. This is the. Is this the first game the first head to head game that it's like, now we have enough information about both these teams. They're as good as we thought. Better. Probably in Houston's case. This is the first, like. All right.

[A]

Yeah. They haven't played yet.

[B]

Buckle up. I got to sit and watch this.

[A]

The problem is no Brown.

[B]

Like New York, Cleveland, there are a bunch of injuries both ways.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bunch of, like, big injuries.

[A]

Well, has OKC played Denver yet?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah. Denver, Houston. I think from a matchup. We didn't get to see a version of this last year with the type of players we have in the series or a game. Throwing them against each other is probably the matchup on the most we're going to see.

[B]

At the same time, I bet we see it. Valanchunas Jokic vs Adam Sengun. Same double towers. Yeah. Same time. Like, let's just.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Let's just go crazy.

[A]

That would be pretty good. Who guards Durant? Gordon Valanchunas.

[B]

Just throw him on there. Gordon. If he plays. Yeah, he sat out last night. I assume just for precautionary reasons. Gordon Watson has been playing a lot because of Christian Brown's injury. I bet he gets a shot before we go.

[A]

I haven't talked to you since you lost your live show virginity in Minnesota, of all places. Yeah, why not? You had a good time?

[B]

Great time. Great time.

[A]

Had some guests, good crowd.

[B]

Finchy brought it. I told him, you gotta bring the heat, some laughs. He brought it. Dante brought it. It was good.

[A]

What's the next city you think we're talking about it?

[B]

We're definitely gonna do one here in New York. And then we are debating one other city. I think we're gonna try to do three this year. New York I insisted on. Cause this is my home. And.

[A]

Yeah, that's a layup.

[B]

And we've got a few. Do you just want me to name them that are candidates or not? I mean.

[A]

No, you don't need to. I know they're percolating. With Elizabeth, our beloved percolating livestream.

[B]

She sent me a long email yesterday that I have not yet responded to with this in mind. But it was fun. It's actually having gone to a bunch. As a fan.

[A]

Yeah. True.

[B]

And appeared on a couple. I knew that it was gonna be way different than a normal podcast, but the level of difference was jarring and, like, kind of. Kind of shook me up for the first 10 or 15 minutes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then also I was very concerned about time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I feel like as an Audience member. You start approaching two hours, and I start to be like half hour 45. I wanted. I wanted an hour and a half before Q and A. And I was gonna monitor the time very carefully. And I left my phone in the green room, so I had no idea how long anything was taking. So I was rifling through the couch cushions thinking my phone was in there. That stressed me out. And it turned out we were moving faster than expected. So I did all right. So I learned a lot. Next one will be even better. But it was fun. It was cool to meet people.

[A]

I did a Den of Thieves rewatchables and I brought the wrong iPad out and the battery died. And Chris Ryan had to ad lib for like two minutes while I ran backstage. And he just had to freelance.

[B]

We still gotta get me on rewatchables.

[A]

I know when you come to la.

[B]

We'Re gonna play in it, book it. You know what I watched for the first time this week on my Peloton Rides? First time. One of those movies that I just missed. Casino.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I'd never seen it before.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

It's a great time.

[A]

I was great. My official little brother.

[B]

My wife texted me mid Peloton ride yesterday and she was like, can you turn that down? It's a lot of swearing and our daughter can hear the entire thing. And it was Pesci and De Niro arguing in the desert. And it was just like. It was bad.

[A]

Yeah, because you have this weird TV movie life where your wife is just like some shows. Movies are a non starter.

[B]

Violence.

[A]

Violence. She's out.

[B]

Yeah. Casino. She would have lasted three minutes.

[A]

Yeah. So you almost have to like sneak in these things to get a taste of like the Beast in Me on Netflix. Your wife wouldn't watch, but it's really good.

[B]

Don't even know what that is. You recommended Task.

[A]

Task is great. That's another one. Yeah, there's some good ones. All right, Sacklow, pleasure as always. Thanks for taking the train to come see us.

[B]

Great time.

[A]

Great see you. This episode is brought to you by Chime. A great team avoids dumb penalties, so get Chime on your side to help avoid dumb fees. With Chime, you can bank fee free, unlock your paycheck early, and with qualifying direct deposits, you can get 1.5% cash back on eligible everyday purchases while building your credit. Start banking smarter today. Sign up for Chime in minutes. Terms and conditions apply. See chime.com for details. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and the secured Chime Visa credit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. FDIC optional service and product may have fees or charges. [e-mail] feesinfo with a qualifying direct deposit. Earn 1.5% cash back on eligible Secured Chime Visa credit card purchases on time. Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. Learn about credit building and more at chime. Com this episode is brought to you by Apple Watch Real talk for a second. You think you're crushing it with sleep. You're getting eight hours. You're doing everything right, feeling great about it.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Using the Apple Watch is kind of like checking game film. It breaks it all down for you. Sleep duration, bedtime, consistency interruptions gives you a play by play of exactly what happened while you slept, no questions asked. My wife has been on this from the get go. She's studying. It's like the all 22 in NFL. You tweak a few things, cut back on late caffeine, maybe actually go to bed. When you say well, boom. You might actually start waking up feeling rested. Apple Watch helps you figure out your sleep so you're not flying blind anymore. And you can find out more at Apple Watch AppleWatchseries 11 iPhone 11 or later required all right, we had to do Ringer 107 even though we just went two hours with Zach Lowe. Joe House is here. This has been an action passed BS pod. What a week for me. For the listeners. The mailbag came back this week. House.

[C]

It's like it never left mailbag and league pass rankings. I mean seriously, just. Just throwing 95.

[A]

What? Yeah. What year is this? I don't even know. We're going to talk football. We went three and two last week. There is a five way tie in the Ringer 107. It is just the definition of mediocrity. But this is perennially right around when I usually get hot.

[C]

Okay, right around Thanksgiving. Take it into existence, buddy.

[A]

I usually start coming on. We have a nice feel for the season. You have a real feel for what teams want to do and not do. And we're going to rip through the games right now. The stay aways for me this week are Bears, Steelers. No thanks. Packers, Vikings. No thank you Ravens.

[C]

Why don't you want. You don't want to bet on the Packers.

[A]

Why I don't want to lay the points with the packers when I can't figure out what the F is going on with them and I don't want to bet on J.J. mcCarthy. So it's a. Stay away from me.

[C]

They're not betting on JJ McCarthy is very, very sound strategy but I don't.

[A]

Want to put the packers in a less than the touchdown. I don't want to play a touchdown with them.

[C]

They're at home at less than a touchdown against J.J. mcCarthy.

[A]

Good luck. Ravens, jets staying away Maybes. I liked Panthers plus seven against the Niners a little bit. And you did not. You don't like Bryce. Bryce Young in the road. What are your other reasons?

[C]

That's it. That's the reason. Well, and also this version of the San Francisco offense, right. We. We. We finally. This is their offense. They saw what we saw against San Francisco.

[A]

Lost it. I mean parlay last Arizona.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

The cards plus 13 and a half.

[C]

That was so dumb. I don't want to.

[A]

The Panthers is. I still think the Niners defense is hot garbage. And Brissette was moving the ball all up and down the field on them. And the points should have been higher. The guy fumbled on the goal line as he was running in. Yeah, but it is. They were moving the ball whenever they wanted. So the question is, could the Panthers just move the ball whenever they want on this team?

[C]

They want to run the ball and they're very good at running the ball, the Panthers. But I'm. I'm looking at the other side of things which is the San Francisco offense, which. Which really.

[A]

It's a juggernaut. I didn't like going against it last week. It was not. I did not have a good time. So we're staying away from that. Eagles. Cowboys. I just want to stay away from you. But you probably have a lean either way on this. You had the Eagles last week as your wise wager. You tried to talk me into it. 4 ringer 107. I didn't want to do it. They killed the Lions. Eagles are minus three and a half at Dallas. There's just enough there with that Dallas team and especially with the cheap touchdown at the end.

[B]

I. I don't.

[A]

I just to stay away. I don't want either of those.

[C]

But I would really go hard if it was three. And at different points it's been three.

[A]

Like it's.

[C]

It's. The Eagles are favored minus three and a half at plus at even money. Plus 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The three and a half for Dallas is minus 1 22. Like.

[A]

Yeah. I mean come on.

[C]

Just put the three out and then.

[A]

A big maybe for me which you're just going to reject like a.

[C]

Like the kembe.

[A]

Like A treatment plant or the Kembe Mutumbo. Give it the Browns plus three and a half against the Raiders. The Raiders can't block at all. We saw that last week against Dallas. That which they single handedly vindicated. The Quinn and Williams trade just whiffing. So I thought. I watched the entire game on my flight to New York City. Some of the worst offensive line play I've seen all year. So the case would be the Browns defense is just going to single handedly win this game. The case against it is it's the Browns offensive line on the road with Shadur Sanders who could not have looked worse. Now he's get to play practice with the first string all week. They're getting three and a half points against a Vegas team. That's bad. You could argue this line should just be even because who the hell knows what's going to happen. But I can't bet on shedeur as a Ringer 107 pick when we're trying to win Ringer 107. We just can't.

[C]

Can't do it. No, I would.

[A]

I did think about it though.

[C]

I'm. Well, I, I would. You know. I don't have enough information to make the strenuous case I'd like to make to take the. The, the Raiders.

[A]

No, we're. We're never taking the Raiders. I'm not doing so that's fine.

[C]

Okay. Duly noted. There's no reason they're awful.

[A]

The Patriots losing to the Raiders in week one is in the running for dumbest result of the season. Like in retrospect, what would the Pats be favored now against them? Like 13?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Easy, easy double digits.

[A]

Some parlay games for you. We have the Seahawks Moneyline. They're favored by 13 half in Tennessee. Couple reasons to be slightly afraid of that game. Zabel's probably out. Simmons is back for Tennessee. It's a lot of points for a road favorite and I would like to steer clear. Lions, Giants, Lions. Minus ten and a half. Lions coming off a bad loss. Lions with some starters back. Lions for instance. Could be t could be parlayed. The moneyline Lions with the Chiefs. Minus one and a half gets us under minus 120. It's minus 113.

[C]

We have to go back to the Chiefs.

[A]

Are the Chiefs going to go 5 and 6?

[C]

Why can't they Tell me why they can't.

[A]

Okay, we'll talk about them in a second. And then Patriots, Bengals. That line dropped to six and a half. The money line's lowered because There's a possibility of a Joe Burrow comeback.

[C]

Just insane to me.

[A]

Know why that would happen? No. Jamar Chase.

[C]

How does that make any sense whatsoever for Cincinnati? Awful defense explanation.

[A]

And then the ones that I really like. Jaguars at Arizona. I know there's some red flags with going into Arizona and there's always red flags with taking the Jags on the road.

[C]

Can't take the Jags on the road. Can't do it.

[A]

Except we're going to. It's because it's going to be one of my picks.

[C]

Your pick. That's fine.

[A]

It's minus two and a half. No Marvin Harrison. Arizona's defense is horrible. Like horrible like that. San Francisco wasn't just scoring last week. They were doing whatever they wanted on defense. I don't know what happened to Gannon and the defense in general. It's in Arizona, but they don't have a home field advantage. It's not like it's oh, it's outdoors, it's going to be cold. Oh, it's in Florida. It's going to be humid. It's just in a dome and with depressed fans. They're three, seven. The team's done. The Cardinals have given up 84 points in the past two weeks. I think Gannons and next coach fired. At least there's a whiff of it now and then. Here's the other thing, House. Jacksonville say what you want about them, but they're second against the run defensively and the Cardinals can't run the ball. So this is just Brissette trying to keep them in it. And I think Brissette's kind of shown, you know, he can put up garbage time stats. But I just think the Jaguars are going to win 11 or 12 games and we're going to be like what just happened? They play the jets two more times, they play somebody else. Awful. The Titans. They have this game like they already have seven wins or six wins.

[C]

Yeah, I don't mind the case for the rest of the season or the case for them, you know, threatening for a playoff spot. But we need more evidence. They lost to Jake Browning and Davis Mills this season. In fact, Davis Mills led Houston to was it 21 points in the fourth quarter.

[A]

I'm aware that saved us in rain or 107.

[C]

Davis Mills did that against this Jacksonville team on the road. So Jacksonville had two consecutive weeks on the road against Vegas which, which took Vegas failing on a two point try in overtime for Jacksonville get the win and then lost to Houston outright. They lost to Jake Browning in week three.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Week two, they have one win on the road and it was against that that San Francisco team where every single person on the team was in the hospital counter.

[A]

They still beat the Niners who've been banged up all year and are just like a wounded.

[C]

That's what I just said on the road. I know their whole team in the hospital.

[A]

I still think you. I'm saying I still think you get credit for beating the Niners even when the whole team's in the hospital because they're well coached and they always whatever. They beat the Panthers in Week 1, they beat the Chiefs in Week 5. Granted, dumb game, but they did beat them. They beat the Chargers handily last week.

[C]

They did.

[A]

And here's my case. I just wonder if they're the good bad team. They're 6 and 4. Their real record is 3, 2 and 5.5e the war games. So they, they're basically 3 and 2 in the either or games. They're at Zona, at Tennessee, home Indiana, Apples home Jets, at Denver, at Indianapolis, home Tennessee. There's four more wins in this. I just think they're going to be in the playoffs and we're going to wonder what the F happened.

[C]

I don't disagree with you. I'll.

[A]

But they have to win this game to be in the playoffs.

[C]

I'm not going to. I'm going to accept your insistence it's your pick. You're allowed to make it.

[A]

I watched that Cardinals team really carefully last week and they sucked.

[C]

They did suck.

[A]

They just sucked.

[C]

But the problem is and I don't.

[A]

Think it matters if they're. Does it matter where Arizona plays? Does it? Oh, they're in Arizona. Watch out. Why does that have to matter?

[C]

They played against an offense that by priors that San Francisco offense on priors coming into the season. San Francisco was supposed to be in 11 or 12 win team based on on the offense that for the first time this season that group of skill players had played nine snaps together before this Arizona game. And so you know, there is a, a difference in class between that San Francisco offense with all of their talent out there. Also the familiarity of of Shanahan against Gannon against Arizona. Radically different thing for this this because.

[A]

Trevor Lawrence, he sucks. He sucks.

[C]

He sucks. So just be aware what we're doing here.

[A]

Listen, it was very hard to find five picks this week.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I have them marked down. I have the Bucks plus six and a half against the Rams marked down because I think the Bucks are like I watched that entire Bucks Bills Game there. They were leading in the fourth quarter. Like I actually think their defense is pretty good. I know they got lit up by Buffalo, but Allen was just out of.

[C]

Josh Allen got lit up by Josh Allen.

[A]

Patriots. I thought they did a good job. They gave up two dumb plays. The question is, can the Rams get some explosives on him? But this just felt like. I thought this was a flash sale line to me. I just blink test in my head. It should be four or four and a half and the Rams are just getting two extra points for being home. Their offense did mostly jack shit. That's last week.

[C]

Are we not getting seven in that game? Just six and a half. Now we're only getting six and a half.

[A]

Yeah, I thought it was six and.

[C]

Another one where you know the proper price is seven. But it's six and a half at 102.

[A]

Looks like Irving and Goodwin are. Goodwin are going to play. And then the Rams just had their biggest win of the year last week, which I was like the week after for that. I just feel like Tampa's going to hang around.

[C]

I don't have an argument. It's too many points. I like where your head is at on Tampa.

[A]

And then this was not a game I had and I know all the cases for it. But you were intrigued by the Saints -1½ against the Kirk Cousins Falcons. And after you suggested it, I did get excited about the chance to bet against Kirk Cousins and Raheem Morris, who I talked about in my mailbag.

[C]

Two of the greats.

[A]

The warm himself.

[C]

The warm. There you go.

[A]

So the Saints are bad. But what is it? It's one and a half in their home.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Coming off the Panthers two weeks ago and then had a buy.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Shuck's okay.

[C]

Yeah, he's. He's okay. There's some, some signs of. Of life there. They only traded one of their. They only traded Rashid Shahid. You know, they didn't trade their. The entirety of their offensive skill position nucleus.

[A]

Also these, these two. The fan bases hate each other. So this is not a let's roll over this week. This is like we actually hate the Falcons.

[B]

Let's.

[A]

Let's like jam a steak into their heart.

[C]

Kirk Cousins without Drake London and no Drake London. The impact on Atlanta's offense when Drake London plays versus when he doesn't play specifically on the run game. They are a yard per attempt. Worse. A yard per carry worse. Over a yard worse. Without Drake London on the football field. They're like four point something yards per carry with him. When he plays. And in the mid threes when he doesn't play. All right, we're not going to have any more opportunities to bet against Kirk Cousins. That's the most important thing.

[A]

That's the thing. And technically we could say the same thing about Shadir Sanders, but I'm not taking.

[C]

And the same thing about J.J. mcCarthy. Like, I would bet against all of them. I already have.

[A]

I've already.

[C]

I'm happy to have less than a touchdown against J.J. mcCarthy. You kidding me?

[A]

I can't do it.

[C]

That's fine. You have to give me one of them. And the one for me is the Saints. I'll gladly, gladly, gladly back the Saints here.

[A]

It was interesting how some of the talking heads talked about McCarthy last week where there was not a lot of yeah, buts with him. The people who were like, I watched the All 22. They were some of the worst throws we've seen this season.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There is no rhyme or reason for where the ball was going. His feet aren't set. They've rushed him. It's. This is a disaster. There's no, no real signs at all except for that last drive that there's something here. It was pretty sobering. I felt that way watching the game as we rooted for them. Didn't enjoy them in Ringer 107. I didn't enjoy it all.

[C]

That was one where we made our pick on Thursday. I thought the defensive lineman, Jonathan Greener was going to be playing. He is their, their, their primary pass rush asset. And then he was ruled out after we made the pick. I got off of the position. I got out of all my Minnesota stuff. I bet on the Eagles last week.

[A]

That covered off all the stupid Minnesota seven.

[C]

We couldn't do anything about it. It wasn't our fault.

[A]

I just don't like the smell of that packers team.

[C]

It doesn't smell good. I understand what you're saying.

[A]

I don't. When it's that's third and eight, I don't. I just don't know what they do.

[C]

They don't either. That's the problem.

[A]

Jacobs. Jacobs either not playing or he's going to play hurt. Not awesome. Right? They drop balls all over the place.

[C]

They sure do.

[A]

Yeah. It's a. Stay away from me. I could see like I personally could see Minnesota winning that game and I could see them losing by 25. I'd rather see.

[C]

Defense is very good. This is. That's the reason why I like the idea of Green Bay. Why I personally have already bet.

[A]

So Chiefs, Colts, there's two ways to go because we have the parlay, because we're doing the Pats.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The Pats are minus six and a half. I'm happy doing that straight up. I'm also happy doing them with a money line and like over 44 and a half or something like that. And because there's going to be points in the game regardless. But I just think. I don't think people realize the Pats have played some decent to really good defenses the last few weeks. Even a team like the jets that traded to their guys, but they were still like. They're still like. Their identity is defense. They're not awful. The Bengals are like reprehensible how bad they are in defense. And the Patriots should be able to move the ball up and down the field on them all game. I think it has blowout potential. They haven't had a blowout in a couple of weeks. There's a burrow piece that about him coming back, but it's only T. Higgins. I think the one bet I would say is I think Chase Brown, if you have him in fantasy or guillotine or whatever, he's just the exact type of guy that the Pats have had trouble with this season. But Pat's in a parlier T's. And then we have to figure out this Chiefs thing because the Lions have to be in a money line against the Giants with all their starters coming back coming off a loss like the Giants are a mess. The Lions money line with the Chiefs is an easy way to do it.

[C]

Why can't we do the Lions money line with Seattle? Because we don't.

[A]

We're not nearly enough. Yeah, we're not nearly enough. Well, explain your hesitation with the Chiefs.

[C]

Who the hell are they? I have no idea who this team is.

[A]

They were winning that game and it seemed like they were wrapping it up there against the Broncos and then they just kind of died with 10 minutes to go.

[C]

Their defense doesn't get stops the way that that defense used to get stops. Got stops last year. What we're accustomed to, which is putting pressure. I kept waiting for the Chris Jones play. Where's the Chris Jones play they put pressure on? Nick's had all the time in the world in that fourth quarter and he threw an absolutely beautiful ball to Troy Franklin. A beautiful ball. That secondary, that chief secondary is poverty. There is no indication that they can slow anybody down. We've been watching it literally all season. We watched it the first week. Herbert threw all over that team. He had a field day. He had so much time and he just picked them apart. And there really hasn't been any signs of progress to my way of thinking. So I'm scared. I'm scared of. Of the Colts ability to get what they want whenever they want.

[A]

Daniel Jones.

[C]

I'm after the Pittsburgh game, which was the classic perfect. Put Danny Dimes outdoors, put him up against a physical kind of defense, and let him just turn into the pumpkin that he is.

[A]

Yeah, that's the.

[C]

That's the thesis for. For what you would say. That's the version of Daniel Jones that we expect here. Except they're coming off the buy, and Steichen's a pretty good coach.

[A]

He. He.

[C]

They might scheme up something to keep him out of harm's way.

[B]

Now, the.

[C]

The best case for the Chiefs is that the Colts defense is extremely mediocre. That is a mediocre defense. The best. You know, the Colts win games by scoring, outscoring the other team. And anytime we've seen them.

[A]

Is that what they're trying this year? They're trying to outscore the other team?

[C]

It's the. It's the.

[A]

I haven't seen a strategy.

[C]

They're not stopping yet. They're not signing their opponents. It. You get it?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They're not winning.

[A]

It sounds like you're more interested in moving the Colts line the other way.

[C]

No, I don't. I'm not. I want to stay away from that game. Personally, I don't want to bet it because. Tell me, what version of the Chiefs is going to show up? Mahomes is running around, you know, part of the game script. Last week, why I liked the Chiefs to handle their business against Denver, was that his unique ability to scramble for yards?

[A]

He scrambled for shit.

[C]

He didn't do anything with his legs. He was behind the line of scrimmage. They had him bottled up. That was.

[A]

Can I give you some. Nothing to do with anything we've seen all season combined with nothing about anything with the stats.

[C]

Yes. I can't wait to hear it.

[A]

The Chiefs are five and five and they've taken shit all week. All they've heard all week was, oh, my God, this is a wrap. This could be done. They also need to win games to make the playoffs. I don't know if you've checked. They really did. They need to win some games now. Games in the season.

[C]

That's a fact.

[A]

And I don't know, man. Chiefs minus one and a half with the Lions, money line to beat the Giants and just betting on the Chiefs to beat Daniel Jones. By two in the biggest game they played all season.

[C]

We have 10 years of evidence that that is what you're supposed to do. A full decade of solid evidence going.

[A]

To 5 and 6. Like I'm honestly happy to lose the pick if they go 5 and 6. And here's the other thing about the game last week. Guys were open. Mahomes missed dudes. He missed guys deep what four times. He had. He had plays. They had offense that they left on the field.

[C]

They've lost two games this season because he's thrown red zone interceptions. They lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars.

[A]

Red zone interception. There was some weird field position stuff in the second half or the special teams. And I just think it was a weird game.

[C]

Another thing.

[A]

Well, let me ask you.

[C]

Am I allowed to say out loud BLEEP this, please. Harrison Bucker could go fuck himself. Every week they have.

[A]

We have Bell Bell's. Bell Bell's here in New York City with me. She loved it. She also wants him to fuck himself. We on top of everything else. Just go back to that. You watched that entire KC Denver game, as did I. Did Denver win that game or did Casey lose it?

[C]

Both.

[A]

But I give credit to pick one.

[C]

Denver won the game, Bo. Knicks had to drive them down the football field. Had to make.

[A]

I think Casey lost that game. I think they left plays on the field the whole time. I thought that interception by Mahomes, considering he's supposed to be one of the best quarterbacks in the world, was abysmal.

[C]

Abysmal.

[A]

Can't believe he did that. Inexplicable. And their last drive was I just hot guards. I'm taking them. This is going to be. I get two picks, so this is going to be my other one. Are you good with Patriots minus six and a half against the Bengals?

[C]

I sure am. If you want to put them in a parlay, that's fine too. I don't mind laying the points with the Patriots.

[A]

All right. The Ringer 107 is presented by FanDuel. First pick. We just argued about it for a while. We're going to take the Chiefs minus 1.5. You just need to win by two. Parlayed with the Lions money line against the Giants, who stink. And the Lions coming off a loss where their playoff position is a little precarious in their home and they're getting guys back. Come on. So Chiefs from three and a half to one and a half with the Lions. Moneyline. That's our first pick. House did not want me to do this and I'M doing it. It's like when we were in college when people had tequila with the worm in the bottle and we were like, should we drink this? Don't do it. Don't do it. You'll go crazy. You'll get brain damage. You're gonna wake up tomorrow without your pants on. And you'd be like, all right, I'll try it. I'm trying the Jags on the road.

[C]

You can try it.

[A]

Go ahead. I might wake up with my pants down at 5pm I guarantee it. West Coast.

[C]

Who knows where that worm is going to be?

[A]

Who knows? But jags minus two and a half in Arizona. This checks 100. Stay the F away boxes. Arizona coming off two big losses in a row. The Jaguars with people believing Trevor Lawrence on the road. He stinks. I get all of it, but I think the Jags can run the ball.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I think they're the good, bad team.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think they're going to go 10 and 7 and we're not going to believe they went 10 and 7.

[C]

I'm going to root for the Jags this week. You picked them.

[A]

I'm rooting for them also. There weren't enough picks for this week. The last three we like Bucks plus six and a half solid in LA against the Rams. The Bucks suddenly with the Panthers breathing on their necks a little bit, they need a win. They've. They lost to the Bills and the Patriots in a row. Have some guys coming back might be able to run the ball better. And Rams coming off a giant win. So we like. We call that a flash sale. Line's a little too high. House, you love the Saints minus one and a half against Kirk Cousins. I don't know if anyone enjoys anything in life more than you enjoy betting against Kirk Cousins at this stage of his career.

[C]

All credit to that guy. He had an incredible once in a lifetime career. The amount of money that he made going from situation to situation and at the exact right time, jumping at the. At the biggest contract out there. Truly amazing. Truly one of a kind.

[A]

It's just a marathon.

[C]

Can't play professional football. What other evidence is there? We watched it last year. He got replaced last year because he's can't run and he can't throw.

[A]

Other than that he can't push off his leg to throw anything with mustard on it.

[C]

Other than that.

[A]

Nice guy. I think he'd be a good announcer.

[C]

Oh, I agree.

[A]

To have me in the booth.

[C]

Totally agree. Great sense of humor. I'm a Cousins fan.

[A]

Saints 1 1/2/2 weeks ago they beat the Panthers 17 7. Which ain't nothing because the Panthers then. Although the Panthers are a zigzag team.

[C]

The mother shuckers are ready, believe me.

[A]

And then our last pick is the Patriots minus six and a half in Cincinnati. This Patriots team likes playing on the road. That's one thing. No Jamar Chase because he decided to spit on Jalen Ramsey for reasons that remain unclear. It's just a fighting thing. You spit on somebody, you're going to get punched. Yeah, there's some good, some good zags against the Patriots this week with some of the advanced metrics they're getting A lot of this team isn't as good as. Meanwhile Indianapolis gets none of it metrics. But like that supporting the Bengals. No supporting that the Patriots are a little Smoke and Mary, all that stuff. It's fine.

[C]

Well, they played an easy schedule. They just beat the teams in front of them.

[A]

Wasn't easier than Indianapolis schedule like I, you know, whatever. No Jamar Chase. And I think the Patriots this has blowout potential. And also the Cincy fans are incredibly depressed by the team. So it's not like I wouldn't say they have an awesome home field advantage.

[C]

Just remember it's Thursday. Joe Burrow might play quarterback for the Bengals. They're that stupid. They might. He might.

[A]

It might not get it and if he does, the line maybe drops a point or two and I'm fine living with it. I think it would be dumb for them to play Joe Burrow in this game when they have the Baltimore.

[C]

I don't think Joe Burrow should play this season.

[A]

We will find out. Patriots minus six and a half is our last pick. Those are the Ringer. 107 picks brought to you by FanDuel. Odd subject to change. You've been betting on basketball.

[C]

I have been.

[A]

You've been dabbling but doing stuff. Who are you riding? Like the we just did the league pass returns. You riding the Rockets and Pistons. Who else?

[C]

I have not. I'm just looking situationally. You know you have to have the time to do this. But the injury report, the direction of injury, Stu and. And the way the schedule is insane. You and I sat to get down together. What was it two weeks ago? Three weeks ago. And you asked the NBA why they hate Golden State so much. Well, betting. Betting against Golden State, you know has been relatively profitable because the stretch that they just went on it was like seven road games in a row or six road games in a row. Seven games in 10 nights. What are we doing what like it.

[A]

Was Steph effing Curry.

[B]

I know.

[C]

One of the three most important players from a market. So stupid. But guess what? Last night that the line opened up against the Heat. The Heat were small favorites. Then they got to be larger favorites as Steph was ruled out because he rolled his ankle the night before. And then everybody on Golden State that sat out and you know, Miami, Cruz. It was a great leg for a moneyline parlay. It was a great leg, you know, laying the small set of points in the morning. So it's those kinds of opportunistic things. The other thing I'm doing is live betting. The nets have lost 12 games. They've only been inside of 10 points in two of those 12 games. If you get into the fourth quarter and the game's relatively close, you can get a great price for the lay the points.

[A]

Some live betting advice from House.

[C]

Live betting stuff is tremendous. The Nets to lose by 10 points. That outcome when. When they're up against anybody that's reasonably good, that's a great angle to. To play.

[A]

Sounds like on the ringer gambling show. We need a Damon Jones special every night where you're like, this is too good to be true.

[C]

Toronto was another one. Toronto. I've been riding 9 out of 10 wins.

[A]

The market hasn't been zachary. I just talked about them in league pass. They've been. They're playing good. The two teams schedule too, so they're getting. Gaining some confidence.

[C]

The two teams that fit that are Phoenix and Toronto, both of those. And the market hasn't really accounted for the identity of either one of those teams. Those two teams try, they're trying. They're not effing around. They're playing all the way through to the end. That's what you need at this point, this early stage of the season.

[A]

I had a great cheeseburger at the Waverly Inn last night.

[C]

Oh, I'm so jealous. You're in New York.

[A]

I'm in New York. I'm about to leave, but I'm in. I'm in New York and it's cold. East Coast. Yeah, it's cold. There's a lot of buildings. The cab drivers just seem like they've gone to another level of weirdness now that post Covid that they can play stuff through their phones. Heard some interesting songs and different things.

[C]

Cultural.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Adventure.

[A]

Yeah. Learned about some different cultures.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

And I'm ready to go back to la.

[C]

Do tell. Yeah, do tell.

[A]

Ready to go back. I see I'm surrounded by Yankees and Knicks fans. And people can't wait for Scam Cataboo to come back.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Just get me out of here. Scam Cataboo.

[C]

That's so, so bad. Why'd you do that.

[A]

Anyway? Yeah, that's all I have to say other than it. Stephen A. Smith made me mad today when he said that. Called Drake May a liar for saying he never watched first take. Did you see that whole story? I like Stephen A. But this one made me mad. This is phenomenal. Drake May said he didn't know what show Cam Newton was on. And Stephen A. Took umbrage and was like, there's no way he doesn't know Cam Newton's on this show. Drake May's a liar. It seems semi tongue in cheek he.

[C]

Was standing up for his guy.

[A]

I think it's conceivable Drake made wouldn't know that Cam Newton was on First Take.

[C]

Respectfully. Respectfully. I would have needed three tries. What show is Cam Newton on? I don't know. One of those ESPN ones.

[A]

Professional athlete who obviously isn't watching espn, who works not in the morning on the East Coast.

[C]

He's got stuff to do in the morning.

[A]

First takes off from 10 to 12. You know, Drake May's not doing from 10 to 12, Monday through Friday watching ESPN. So how would he know Cam Newton is on First Take?

[C]

I'm going to give Stephen A. The benefit of the doubt. Standing up for his guy.

[A]

I liked it. As you know. I like Stephen A. But I didn't listen. Don't come in. Drake May. He's the most popular Boston athlete a long time. People love Drake May.

[C]

Has anybody come up?

[A]

His wife now is. Is becoming like a cult hero on Instagram. She cooks for Pat's fan. She does recipes. They ask her. People love drink mistake by Stephen.

[C]

I could have had her on House of Carbs. Bring that back. Could have.

[A]

Maybe we'll bring it back just for her.

[C]

For her.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This was. You can't come at Drake May. He's too popular. This is a real big mistake by our guy, Stephen A.

[C]

We'll see.

[A]

He's gonna have to apologize.

[C]

I don't think he's worried about the good people of Boston. I don't think he's. He's trying to build bridges with people with Boston in New England.

[A]

That may be true. He needs to apologize to me. Maybe just a text.

[C]

Good luck.

[A]

Send me a text. Stephen A. Just say I'm sorry. What I said about Drake May. House. Good to see you always. We'll see you on the Ringer gambling show on Sunday, 11am which is now on all the fanduel sports networks around 11am wise wager, you hit a 50 to 1 last week on that show. Kenneth Gainwell, two touchdowns. Unbelievable stuff by you. I'll see you next Thursday. Oh, I won't see you next Thursday. We'll have to figure out what we're doing next week for Thanksgiving. Yeah, Thanksgiving turkey. Normally we do picks on Thursday, but on Thursday, you eat all day, you fall asleep, then you wake up and you eat more and then you fall asleep and then you eat a third time.

[C]

Yeah, who knows where I'll be? I'll be busy one way or the other.

[A]

All right. Bye, house. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and thanks to Zach Lowe. Thanks to how and Eduardo. As always, thanks to our New York crew for helping us out. That includes Belle, Caroline, Kate, Juliet Lippman, my old friend. She even, like, I think, moved some stuff around on the table, turned on some lights, showed me where the studio is. Anyway, it was fun to do a podcast from here. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday Night Live with cousin Sal. Enjoy the weekend. Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 Plus. I'm president in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gamble problem. Call 100 Gambler, visit rg-help.com, call 888-797777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. This is a netsy holiday ad, but you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols. Instead, you'll hear something original. The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this. Now that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy. For gifts that say I get you shop Etsy, tap the banner to shop now.