The Vikings Get Rammed, Dallas’s Next Coach, and Bad NFL Owner Habits With Cousin Sal and Peter Schrager

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Vikings Get Rammed, Dallas’s Next Coach, and Bad NFL Owner Habits With Cousin Sal and Peter Schrager"

Release Date: January 14, 2025

Hosted by Rob Harvilla, this episode of The Ringer Podcast Network delves deep into recent NFL developments, focusing on the Minnesota Vikings' unexpected downfall, the Dallas Cowboys' coaching conundrum, and pervasive issues with NFL team ownership. Joining Rob are recurring contributors Cousin Sal and Peter Schrager, who provide insightful commentary and analysis throughout the discussion.

---

1. Minnesota Vikings' Season Collapse

The episode opens with a heated discussion about the Minnesota Vikings' dramatic performance decline over an 89-day period. Despite being one of the most promising teams early in the season, the Vikings suffered a series of unexpected losses that left fans bewildered.

• Rob Harvilla reflects on Sam Darnold's potential:

  "He was a great late bloomer, and I genuinely believed in him, but then he absolutely sucked in the Detroit game."
  (09:06)

• Peter Schrager expresses disappointment in the entire NFC North division:

  "The whole division won me over. The NFC North."
  (04:59)

The conversation highlights specific game performances where the Vikings' offensive line faltered, leading to excessive sacks and turnovers. Harvilla criticizes the coaching decisions, particularly questioning the Vikings' commitment to Sam Darnold despite his underperformance.

2. Rams' Unexpected Victory and Performance Analysis

Transitioning to the Los Angeles Rams, the hosts commend the team's emotional win and strategic gameplay. The Rams showcased strong offense despite a historically weak defense, raising questions about their long-term prospects.

• Rob Harvilla praises the Rams' game management:

  "They played out of their minds," followed by an analysis of their defensive strategies.
  (04:59 - 07:04)

• Peter Schrager notes the Rams' resilience:

  "They came out fighting, proud of this team."
  (05:43)

The discussion underscores Jared Goff's leadership and the integration of new defensive talents like Kobe Turner, speculating on whether the Rams' defense will sustain its performance in upcoming games.

3. Sam Darnold's Struggles and Future Prospects

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Sam Darnold's declining performance as the Vikings' quarterback. The hosts debate the feasibility of retaining Darnold, considering his high salary cap implications and persistent issues on the field.

• Cousin Sal criticizes Darnold's performance:

  "He was sacked nine times, six of them in the first half."
  (08:52)

• Rob Harvilla discusses the financial ramifications:

  "They have to say no now, right. If you're the Vikings."
  (10:20)

The conversation explores potential trade scenarios and highlights other quarterbacks who might be better fits for the Vikings, emphasizing the need for a reliable and cost-effective solution.

4. Coaching Changes and Ownership Challenges

Rob, Peter, and Cousin Sal delve into the broader issues of coaching instability and poor ownership decisions within the NFL. They examine how frequent coaching turnovers and questionable ownership practices disrupt team coherence and performance.

• Rob Harvilla laments the chaotic coaching landscape:

  "There's so much weird coach shit happening in the NFL, I can't keep track."
  (Recorded on January 14, 2025)

• Cousin Sal discusses ownership missteps:

  "Most NFL GM hires are doomed from day one."
  (51:25)

The hosts critique specific teams, including the Dallas Cowboys, where ownership decisions have led to prolonged coaching uncertainties. They also touch upon the challenges faced by teams like the New York Jets and Chicago Bears, emphasizing the detrimental impact of poor leadership on team success.

5. Predictions and Future Outlook

Looking ahead, Rob and Peter make predictions about upcoming games and potential coaching hires. They analyze the likelihood of the Rams advancing further in the playoffs and speculate on the Dallas Cowboys' next coaching moves.

• Peter Schrager predicts the Rams' victory:

  "I'm going to guess Rams by 42 and a half."
  (21:34)

• Rob Harvilla shares his own betting insights:

  "I think I'm going to win this. I have Eagles minus six and a half."
  (21:52)

The hosts also discuss the potential hires for various teams, weighing candidates like Dion Sanders and Mike McCarthy, and debating their suitability based on past performances and leadership qualities.

6. Listener Engagement and Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with a segments like "Guess the Lions," where listeners are engaged with predictions and betting lines. Rob mentions upcoming content and expresses optimism for future episodes, contingent on weather conditions affecting Southern California.

• Rob Harvilla encourages listener support:

  "Stay safe everybody. See you later in the week."
  (37:07)

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Notable Quotes

• Rob Harvilla on Vikings' defense collapse:

  "It was just a complete collapse."
  (07:04)

• Peter Schrager on coaching hires:

  "There's no one else who's going to come in there and say and honestly mean it with the passion that Rex does."
  (83:07)

• Cousin Sal on ownership issues:

  "Most NFL GM hires are doomed from day one."
  (51:25)

---

Key Takeaways

• The Minnesota Vikings experienced one of the most significant mid-season collapses in recent memory, primarily due to quarterback Sam Darnold's underperformance and questionable coaching decisions.

• The Los Angeles Rams defied expectations with a strong offensive performance, despite having one of the weakest defenses in the league, raising questions about their strategic planning moving forward.

• Persistent issues with NFL team ownership and frequent coaching changes continue to undermine team stability and performance across the league.

• Future coaching hires remain a critical concern, with candidates like Dion Sanders and Mike McCarthy under scrutiny for their potential impact on team dynamics and success.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of current NFL dynamics, offering listeners a blend of game-specific insights and broader discussions on coaching and ownership challenges within the league.

Transcript

[Rob Harvilla]

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 songs that explain the 90s. Except we did 120 songs and now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The strokes, rihanna, jlo, kanye. Sure. And now the show is called 60 songs that explain the nineties. Colon, the 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say. Anything else right now, Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. Cole in the 2000s preference on Spotify this episode is brought to you by Unstoppable. If you're a fan of classic sports films, you're going to love this new one. It's called Unstoppable. It tells the true story of Anthony Robles, who overcame so much in his life to become a national wrestling champion. Directed by William Goldenberg and from Amazon MGM Studios, you've got a star studded ensemble cast here, including Jharrel, Jerome, My Guy, Don Cheadle, Michael Pena, Bobby Cannavale, and of course Jennifer Lopez, who plays Judy, the loving mom whose unwavering support helps Anthony defy the odds. Unstoppable. Streaming exclusively on Prime Video January 16, this episode is brought to you by Nissan. When you're younger, you're more spontaneous. You say, screw it, I'm just gonna drive cross country with my buddy and we'll stop at a bunch of places and take pictures. You get older, you would never do something like that. Keep your spontaneity my friends. Fuel your inner adventure with the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek from rocky trails to snowy roads, there are plenty of places to show up this SUV thanks to its intelligent all wheel drive. Its Adventure ready design gives it a rugged flair that stands out off road adventure calls to the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek. Visit NissanUSA.com to learn more. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I don't have a new rewatchables coming for you tonight. At least we're going to try to do a mailbag on Wednesday. Hopefully the winds are not going to be bad on Tuesday and Wednesday. Here in Southern California we are keeping our fingers crossed that all the bad stuff is behind us and we can start thinking about recovery and start moving forward instead of looking backwards and looking over our shoulders here. So keep us in your thoughts. I mentioned in the Sunday podcast that we did with Sal that we're going to try to figure out a good list of charities and things to donate for, for people who want to help out all the people who are affected out here. I'm going to have that by Thursday because I really wanted to get the right list going and make sure that I trust everybody that I'm recommending because there's been some, some pretty crazy fraudulent stuff happening out here. So I want to make sure I have everything in a trustworthy state before we pass that along. Thanks to everybody who listened yesterday. Thanks to everybody who's about to listen. The top of the pod is just me and Sal reacting off Rams Vikings doing guest of the Lions for Rams Eagles. And then we're going to talk about the Dallas Cowboys thing. So that's the first segment. And then so Peter Schrager and I, we recorded on Tuesday and it was going to be the second part of the Tuesday pod and I was going to do an NBA power poll right off of Nuggets Celtics on last Tuesday night. And then, you know, it happened in California. Ended up postponing the pod. But I really liked a lot of the stuff that Schrager and I talked about. We were making a lot. It was all coaching ownership stuff and we were making predictions for what we thought was gonna happen with the coaching hires. But we were talking about the model of ownership and just where things are going on that front, not just in football, but in professional sports. And I really liked what we talked about. So it's a week late. This is a short pod. I just thought we'd throw it at the end. Why not? So there it is. That's going to be the second part of the podcast. A week old conversation with Peter Sugar. But I swear it's good. Okay, that's the pod. Let's bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this 8:20 Pacific Time Monday night. This is a quickie guess the line segment coming off Rams Vikings. The good news, the Rams an emotional win for, for Los Angeles. I guess you could feel it coming in the hour before the game with the emotional performance of the national anthem. The Rams played great. They played out of their minds. And, and yet I leave this game wondering what the hell happened in the Minnesota Vikings where we were two weeks ago versus where we are now. It's one of the most stunning 89 day collapses I can remember of a football team. I really, they, these guys won me over. I really genuinely believed in them and they fell apart.

[Peter Schrager]

The whole division won me over. The NFC North. I went into this, I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to key on this NFC North. The packers are going to be good. The Vikings are going to go far or as far as they can before they run into another team. And now it's looking like the SEC a little bit for you college fans out there. And yeah, I'm with you. The Rams came out fighting, proud of this team. They brought their a game. McVeigh had them together, right mindset, but move them. Basically. It felt like the game was in Minneapolis. Like, you know, they went to the sideline reporter and she's like, yeah, a lot of Vikings fans. I'm like, well, that doesn't seem fair, but they did a great job. But yeah, you're right. Like, you and I were like signed Sam Darnold easy two weeks ago. Right. I feel bad flip flopping so much, but Jesus, what the hell is going on the last 10 days?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's not a flip flop. He had a whole body of evidence for the whole season where it looked like, for whatever reason, he was this year's late bloomer star qb and he had just come off that huge win over the packers when he has one of the best games of his career. They have the awesome NFL Films video in the locker room after, right when they're all waiting and Darnold comes in and his teammates mob him. They pick him up. They show Kevin O'Connell, like almost like near tears watching it. Great speeches.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, that seems like it was yesterday now that you brought that up. That really seems like it was not long ago. That's crazy.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, because it wasn't. It was two weeks ago.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

And it just seemed like, man, this is such a great story. The late bloomer Sam Darnold, and then he absolutely sucked in the Detroit game. But I was willing to chalk it out to, hey, it's a bad game. This team's 14 and three. They have a great track record. Detroit was fired up. They were home, but they couldn't block the Rams. And the part that doesn't make sense to me, I was a little worried about their protection heading into the game just because of what it looked like against the Lions. But the Rams don't have a good defense. The rams defense was 26th on DVOA for defense. They were the seventh worst defense in the league. It's not like this was the 2000 Ravens and they looked like the 2000 Ravens. So it was just a complete collapse.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year. At least for the Rams defense. You're right. Like, and then they get Jared Verse and Kobe Turner plays out of his mind his second year. And Kobe Durant tonight, anyone named Kobe, all the Kobes, all the Kobe's. And it makes you think. Was Aaron Donald ever good? No.

[Cousin Sal]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Big legacy hit for him. Should he go to the hall of Fame now?

[Peter Schrager]

Aaron Donald, Sam Donald, maybe. Like the guy's hemorrhaging money every time he drops back to pass.

[Rob Harvilla]

I know.

[Peter Schrager]

Could he have opted out of the playoff game? Not just, not just his contract money. Our money. Because we had them on teasers, the Vikings and everything. But I guess that's, that's what we get. I guess. I don't know. But as far as signing him again, we have to, we have to say no now, right. If you're the Vikings.

[Rob Harvilla]

We talked about yesterday, we were talking about QBs you'd rather have than Herbert. And we were going down the list and I said to you, what about Sam Darnold? Then you paused, which was my reaction as well. And you're like, let's wait to see what happens tomorrow. And of course what happened was the worst possible game for him. I was looking. So some of the stats for the Rams heading into this game, they were 21st in the league in sacks, they were 28th in the league in QB hits, 26th in tackles for losses, and they were sixth in QB hurries. Right. So that's the one thing where you're like, oh, I can kind of see it. The Vikings were 23rd in sacks given up 20th, QB hits 24th, QB hurries, 24th tackles for loss. So there were signs that their offensive line might not be that great, but nothing could have prepared anybody for what happened. He was just under attack and he reverted back into old school seeing go Sam Darnold. It was like jets pats Sam Darnold. And now you mentioned the money thing. I don't know what you do if you're the Vikings and we're going to.

[Peter Schrager]

Kill Sam Darnold and we already have and we'll probably do another 10 minutes to doing so. But yeah, I think he was sacked nine times. He was sacked six times in the first half. And like the next gen stats, like can kind of now tell you which. Which sacks of the quarterback's fault.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I think like five or six.

[Peter Schrager]

Of them were his fault because anything over like four seconds is the quarterback's fault.

[Rob Harvilla]

So yeah, we have next gen stats and we also have Trey Aikman who can tell no lies when he's watching a quarterback performance that he's not enjoying that much. And he just couldn't a few times. He's just like, I. Joey, he has a good pocket there. I don't know what. I don't know what. Why that happened the way it did. Because the pockets, if he steps up, he's got plays. I don't know. He just. The moment got too big for him, which was what happened last week, too, in the Detroit game. So now there's this whole domino effect now because what the Lions did to Minnesota last week, and we're like, the Lions are back. Their defense is back. But then you watch the Vikings camp block again this week. Darnold stinks again this week. And now. So when you look forward against the Lions, we have this Rams game. I have no idea what to make of their performance. That bite. Like, is their defense for real? Is it not for real? What's going on there? And then the Lions, who looked so awesome last week, and we're all like, their defense, maybe it's back. They had a bye week. Now you see the Vikings can't block. And it's like, well, maybe it's not back. Maybe Washington will be able to move the ball against the trade. This just made me more confused about.

[Peter Schrager]

Round two, so it made me confused about round two. It made me confused about which quarterbacks are good. If the Herbert thing you brought up and like, what Minnesota. This is good for the fans, though, right? This kind of opens things up. Now, would have been boring if the Vikings just resigned. Sam Donald gave him a big number, but they're like top seven and caps space, I think like a hundred. And they, they. They took their medicine with the dead cap with Cousins and Danelle Hunter, I think this year. But they're like a. I think they have like 160 million free and they have to start McCarthy now. But yeah, you're right. Going forward, I don't know what it means for any of these teams.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, can't. They can franchise tag Darnold, though?

[Peter Schrager]

Yes, they can.

[Rob Harvilla]

It would just be for a big salary. But I.

[Peter Schrager]

How much is that then? Is that 40 or.

[Rob Harvilla]

No, it's not worth it now. It's definitely not worth it. I think if Darnold plays well against Detroit, they lose to Detroit by like 3. And then they play the Rams. The Rams squeak it out, but he's fine in that he's looking at at least the Baker Mayfield money, which I think was like 3 for 100 range. Now, I had a whole losers, winners thing I wanted to do. He was the biggest individual loser. Suruda says 41 million for the franchise tank. Yikes. So he's the biggest loser because I don't know what the free agent money is going to be for.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, let's see. How much did you and I lose on that? Vikings adjusted. I mean, I guess he's the biggest.

[Rob Harvilla]

Loser, but we have to lose. I did the anchor, the anchor parlay with four games and I ended up just splitting them. So it's just like all that work for nothing. I lost on the Chargers, lost on the Vikings one on the other two. But I was thinking Steeler fans, Raider fans, Saints fans. Sam Darnold is now in their life with rumors, right? Those are the three teams. I don't think the Giants, just because of the jets pedigree, I think they would stay away. But Steelers, Raiders, Saints, I think are three possibilities. I like that.

[Peter Schrager]

I don't know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Also, they could franchise them for a year and do the whole. Hey, we're not sure. Is J.J. mcCarthy's even going to be ready for September? They showed Daniel Jones a couple times like he's an option. We've seen Daniel Jones. They're not going to. It can't be Dana Jones.

[Peter Schrager]

I just don't know. What are they? There's one way to look at it is, shit, we're not going to do better than 14 wins, right? I think we can get us to 14 wins, but it's just this whole January thing that seems to be a mess. The other way is to look at it is, let's see what we did with this McCarthy with our first round pick. Let's see what we got out of him.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, they obviously believed in him. They took him really high. He had bad luck with an injury, but before the injury, they were all excited about what he looked like in the preseason. Um, so Darnold's the biggest loser, but the, the runner up and maybe even the winner is the Vikings fans who just. You know, I've mentioned my buddy Jeff a couple times. He's just. He's in I told you'd so mode. He's like, I told you, this is what we do. This is what, like, he's just. This was preordained. Not only that they were going to lose, but it was going to be a complete embarrassment. This was. This team won more games than any other Vikings team ever. Except for the 98 team that went 15 and 1 and lost in the NFC title game. The 69 team went 12 and 2, lost the Super Bowl. The 73 team went 12 and 2, lost THE SUPER BOWL. 75 team went 11, 2 and 1 lost Super Bowl. The 17 team 13 and 3, they lost that NFC title game in Philly. Whatever it was, it was Philly.

[Peter Schrager]

Yep.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, but this was one of the best Vikings teams, at least from a regular season standpoint of the last 60 years. And just goes out ignominiously like they couldn't even score 10 points.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah, this is bad.

[Rob Harvilla]

Shocking.

[Peter Schrager]

It's tough. And the coaching, they got out coached too. Like the guy who's going to win coach of the year, Kevin O'Connell, got out coached. It didn't take a lot. I was kind of. I would have liked to have seen them call that Stafford play differently. I know you and I having money on the Vikings would have also, but with that forward pass thing, the thing that was returned for a touchdown, they called it a fumble initially and then they said, Stafford, I think you have to do a little more than pretend you're sprinkling salt on eggs. Your hands gotta go a little more forward than that.

[Rob Harvilla]

It should be like a 30 yard penalty. When you do that, if you're going down on a sack and you just whip the ball, it's like beyond an intentional grounding. I personally think it should be, I think that should be a fumble when you're just dumping the ball because you're going to take a sack, but you're not even dumping it anywhere near anybody. It was the key play of the game because it felt like the Vikings grew to have momentum. Their defense in general, though, the Rams played it perfectly. They came out in the first quarter, Stafford started out 9 for 9. They could anticipate every single thing that was happening. This was the people that were making the case for the Rams heading into this game was not only did they win earlier in the year, but Stafford was good against the blitz. He's good at, he's such a smart qb, he's good at reading stuff and everything got borne out. I thought the Vikings were able to run the ball better, but in General, like the 26 DVOA defense should not be dominant. I know they had a couple games when guys were missing, but for the most part, like that makes no sense to me. Yeah, this is a team that got carved up multiple times this year.

[Peter Schrager]

You know, never could get Jefferson going. You know, let's see a one on one play to Jefferson. Addison drops everything thrown his way. It's. It gets ridiculous. And again, at least half those sacks were Darnold's fault.

[Rob Harvilla]

So winners J.J. mcCarthy. Sean McVeigh, another great win. He's got eight playoff wins now, plus the Super Bowl. They made the playoffs in six of eight of his post seasons. He's only been a coach for eight years and just coach the pants off of Kevin O'Connell, who's going to win a really awkward Coach of the Year award in about. I don't know, Whenever they have that NFL honors thing killed them. Not only killed them, but, oh, the. The. The bikes were down 18 with 10 minutes left. And we're running the Donovan McNabb, Pat's Eagles Super bowl offense. Just long huddles before every play and no urgency at all. It's like they really quit. It was borderline Roberto Duran. No mas. No mas.

[Peter Schrager]

Right, Buck. Even Joe Buck and Aikman were like, does this team know they're down 18 when they're running on second and sixth?

[Rob Harvilla]

Sixth quarter.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

What are you guys doing?

[Peter Schrager]

Very strange. Yeah. I don't know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

McVeigh. McVeigh is a gigantic winner. And so LA football fans, too. I mean, really just to get this team ready, bringing their pets out and their family and bringing them out over there. And now it's like, I mean, we'll talk about the next game against Philly, but they're flying home to la. They don't know if they're going to be able to practice in their facility, depending on the air quality. And then they have to go all the way to Philly. It's going to be interesting to see if they can keep this momentum going.

[Rob Harvilla]

Rams fans, huge winner. This is such a likable team. This was not supposed to be a team post Aaron Darnold that, you know, they. When they were 1 and 4, they were talking about, could cup be. I never believed those stories, but there were trade rumors about cup and could Stafford be potentially available? Um, and all of a sudden, now they're heading into the second round against a pretty. Pretty beatable Eagles team. Hench made a good joke. Our buddy Hench. He said the crowd was so good because Glendale is a shorter ride for the Rams fans than Sofi Stadium. Really good. Really good inside.

[Peter Schrager]

Is that a joke or is that accurate?

[Rob Harvilla]

I think that's.

[Peter Schrager]

I think that's. I think he's being serious.

[Rob Harvilla]

Six hours to Glendale and five hours to Sofi.

[Peter Schrager]

Close.

[Rob Harvilla]

Losers, the Eagles. It went from, oh, man, I don't want to see the Vikings to, oh, Jesus. This Rams team, they're just cagey. They're like one of those old boxers. They've lost a couple times they're like 37, but they might be 40. And they just kind of know what to do in the ring. And you don't want to fight them.

[Peter Schrager]

They don't want a lot. They don't win a lot of these matchups. Right. They don't win the coaching matchup.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't know.

[Peter Schrager]

I guess they win the running back. I.

[Rob Harvilla]

They don't win coach or QB. They lose both of them.

[Peter Schrager]

Those QB is going to pass for 148 yards and, you know, he's going to get pushed forward a couple of yards here and there. I feel like the defensive intensity for the ramp, you know, the receivers are not off on the sideline reading Doski. So I don't know. Like, I feel like. I think it's really tough. This is a tough matchup and nobody wants them to win Outdoors.

[Rob Harvilla]

Philadelphia, probably not Warm Stafford and cold weather. There's some playoff manifesto stuff with this, too. There's always the. One of the best playoff manifesto rules that I have is the round two team that looked a little too good in Round one. Everybody's a little too excited about them. The Rams definitely qualify for that. And conversely, the Eagles not looking that great in round one. So there's. And I think that's going to be reflected in the.

[Peter Schrager]

But this opens up some nice. And we talk about narratives all the time. Like that NFC Championship is going to be funny the way you get golf against Stafford. Right. As long as the Eagles are out, I think it's fun. You golf against Stafford or you get Jaden Daniels against Stafford and the la, you know, the LA team and the nation rooting hard for la, whatever, against the rookie quarterback who's come from nothing? Yeah. So just step aside, Eagles.

[Rob Harvilla]

Did you hear from any Eagles fans today who were like, you guys were a little too hard on us yesterday? We want to play a game. Oh, you did? Because I didn't at all.

[Peter Schrager]

Oh, really?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. The Eagles fans I heard from were like, yeah, you guys nailed it. I was fucking pissed after that game. I'm still mad.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah, well, there. There's always that. But you know, Eagle fans tend to hate. You'll always find a few that are just going to hate you for saying anything about them. Good or bad. That's what it was.

[Rob Harvilla]

We're going to take a break and then we're going to do guest alliance Eagles, Rams and we'll talk little Cowboys. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Get the whole band together with Workday and pair finance and HR in one platform for an epic performance with Workday AI at the core, you'll make confident decisions faster than ever, and you'll drive flawless business and finance operations with an agile platform that constantly evolves to future proof your organization. Be a Finance and HR Rockstar with Workday. Visit workday.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving, from two for One Pizza. To buy one, get one Wings. Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week all season long. Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. All right, guess the Lions. You already beat me. The big question the media was talking all day. Are you even going to play your starters here? What? Ha. You're in the week 18 Kansas City Chiefs thing. Do you just sit everybody try not to get hurt? Do you try to give me false hope? Do you do the Buffalo Bills where you tank the game to make me feel better about where I am heading into next week? I'm going to be down 1 for the first time since 1892.

[Peter Schrager]

Wow, that was a long time. I thought before that. Well, I'll let my words speak for themselves here. LA at Philly, 3pm Eastern Sunday. I'm going to guess Rams by 42 and a half. That's my official guess because it doesn't matter.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think I'm going to win this. I have Eagles minus six and a half.

[Peter Schrager]

All right, you got it. You know what? It was six and a half. It went down to five and a half. But you are closer. Wait, let me see. Yes, you are closer. So you, what did you have 42 and a half.

[Cousin Sal]

No, you really?

[Peter Schrager]

In, in, in real life, I would have said like three.

[Rob Harvilla]

I, I don't.

[Peter Schrager]

I, I guess they're just counting on this just being too much, too much of a story for the Rams.

[Rob Harvilla]

So we ended up. I remember looking at the round one lines on like Wednesday, Thursday, whatever. Like just looking to distract from any possible way, like where'd the lines end? And I remember thinking like, I know we're going to have three underdogs. I have no idea who the three underdogs are going to be that actually advance. And it ended up being Houston, Washington and the Rams. Two home teams. Two home dogs, which used to be Like a playoff. Always take a home dog, don't even think twice. And then the Washington team in a game that was. I could see either of these teams winning these games. Why not take the points? So it all makes sense in retrospect. But on Wednesday I was like, I could see all six favorites winning.

[Peter Schrager]

And those were the three shortest underdogs. Right. They were all between two and a half and three.

[Rob Harvilla]

Right.

[Peter Schrager]

So yeah, you wouldn't have. Even so parlay still would have hit.

[Rob Harvilla]

And I thought the Broncos with plus eight and a half, nine, whatever it was, had a chance to keep things around. And in the first quarter it seemed to win. Then the Bills pulled away. The packers were another one six minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it turned out to be the three short odds, two home dogs and, and we ended up three underdogs advancing round one.

[Peter Schrager]

And the AFC is the same, exactly the same as last year. Right. These are the same four that advance. Houston, Kansas City, Baltimore, Buffalo.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, we talked yesterday. I was saying that that Baltimore game that's in the tic tac zone. I thought it was going to flip. It was yesterday. It was Buffalo minus one and a half. I predicted to you. I think it's going to flip. I think Baltimore is going to be one and a half. It already happened. Baltimore's one and a half. So since we did it yesterday, Baltimore's minus one half. Buffalo, Philly is now minus five and a half on FanDuel. Detroit is minus eight and a half against Washington, and then Casey is still minus seven and a half. And everybody and their brother is teasing them with Ohio State. Yes.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah. And they're probably going to take two of those three. Mid range favorite, five and a half, seven and a half, eight and a half and put them together probably the Saturday games. Right. Nobody, people want to win money Saturday and then go over Sunday. So that's, that's going to be a popular moneyline parlay Detroit and Kansas City. But as far as Buffalo goes, I, you know, and I might even end up taking Baltimore, but that is entirely, entirely disrespectful to Bills. They, they need. Can we get Louis K to step in as their publicist? They need a new publicist. If that fricking team can't lay points at home. I don't care who they're playing, they're damn good. They can't be getting a point and a half. Ridiculous.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think it goes down to the Ravens had five losses and you could easily just examine all of them and be like, ah, they actually should Add one loss.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

They were the number one team in dvoa. They look like they've gotten better as the years gone along, especially on defense. Defense was the big hole with them the first 10 weeks. It flipped and I think it's the right line. And I'll be honest, I've already put money on Baltimore.

[Peter Schrager]

I believe you.

[Rob Harvilla]

I grabbed it because I was worried it was going to get to like minus two and a half, something like that. I just think they're. I think Buffalo's defense is going to have a lot of trouble stopping them, but we'll see. I'm going to look at it more. There's going to be some narrative that nobody believes in us. If, if that starts drifting around Buffalo, I'm going to get nervous.

[Peter Schrager]

Do you think, like, I know this is a regular season vote, but we saw Kevin O'Connell like, Ah, and you said it. Now it's going to be a weird Coach of the Year award.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's like The Dirk Nowitzki 2007 MVP that was the all timer. He'd already been knocked out of the playoffs. And they're like, here's your.

[Peter Schrager]

Could there be an Executive Goodell decision or whoever makes this decision, give the voters their votes back. Like, all right, we're going to give.

[Rob Harvilla]

You one more game.

[Peter Schrager]

Nope, you wouldn't do it.

[Rob Harvilla]

The regular season award.

[Peter Schrager]

I know, but if one of them throws four interceptions, he was the best.

[Rob Harvilla]

Coach of the regular season. Now it's like, Sam Darnold was so bad those last two weeks. Maybe that emboldened case.

[Peter Schrager]

That's true. How did he get it done? Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

I can't believe we fell for Sam Darnold.

[Peter Schrager]

Well, that's a frickin. That's a great division. Aside from what the Bears put forth. And they won 14 games. Like there's. It's hard to get around that.

[Rob Harvilla]

I understand it. There was a number of times during the season when I felt myself being like, you know what? I'm starting to believe in this guy. And then it was that, that Arizona game, week 13. He lit up Atlanta, he lit up Chicago. He had a really nice win at Seattle. And then that Green Bay game, they won. They won nine straight games. And he was getting better during the streak and he really. I believed. I don't. I feel burned.

[Peter Schrager]

You know why? Because we go on the podcast and it's not fun to just keep telling people, all right, Just be careful with this guy. It's just fun.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, maybe we should just do the podcast and just be like, chiefs Ravens, Bills, Eagles. Lions. Like, we just should have never wavered from those five teams, right?

[Peter Schrager]

I know. And so, you know, grand or scale. Probably just should take the Chiefs the rest of the way, but yeah. Sam Darnold is 27. We saw what he looked like at 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26. But we sh. Probably should have stayed with that.

[Rob Harvilla]

I really like Sam Darnold. Like, I really thought that video of. Of how much his teammates loved him. I was in. I was like, man, this guy finally. It's like a rescue dog. He finally found a home. And now he might be your new New Orleans Saints quarterback. Poor Sam. Before we go. So your team fired or didn't fire. What. What was the word? What did they do to Mike McCarthy? Broke up.

[Peter Schrager]

So bum. Yeah, they, you know, there's just not going to be negotiations. They parted ways. Yeah. I'm in the middle. I know you tried to get me to hate McCarthy, but the very few wanted him to come back. Very many wanted him to be gone. I was somewhere in the middle. I appreciated that he won 12 games three years in a row. That's pretty great. I feel like it's like getting a new iPhone. Like, you know, the. The one you have is old and shitty and it's got like a crack in the front and you have to charge it every three hours. But you're also a little worried about the new one, right? Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

What if they have some bugs? I didn't realize. Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

My app's gonna transfer. Is my email gonna sync up?

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't like what they did with the photo albums. I like the photo albums the old way.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah. And so if the photo album is gonna feature frickin Deion Sanders, I gotta be honest, I. I might be out. I may have to tap out on this team for a little bit.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, stop it sound like Fantasy. Fantasy. I don't like it. Fantasy's always. He's. Fantasy's threatening to quit the jets now. He quit the Knicks. Knicks. Couple years ago.

[Peter Schrager]

It's a. I need a break from the clown show. Give me Ben Johnson, Aaron, Glenn, Tomlin, Zimmer, Flores. I don't care. Any of them. Dion comes in and that. First of all, he sucks. He really does. If you watch. I've watched college, his clock, management, scheming as bad as anybody else's. Right. And he was 13 and 11 as a coach for Colorado. I'm not even going to count Jackson F in state. You and I could go 6 and 6 coaching with good assistance. 13 and 11 we're going to sign this guy and pay him $8 million.

[Rob Harvilla]

6 and 6.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Great.

[Peter Schrager]

Congratulations. A lot of mad experience.

[Rob Harvilla]

A lot of video game experience. I. So listen. I don't have a dog in this race. Other than. I love talking cowboys with you, especially on this podcast. I don't understand what he was doing the last 12 months. Jared Jones, where they brought McCarthy back after. It just seemed like after the playoffs, he was out. It was so such a humiliating loss. Or they know, let's bring him back. They bring him back. They do all the weird contract stuff. There's multiple points in the first half of the season where it seems like they're just going to fire him. They don't. They string it along. Even though the season's over, they've lost Dak. They string along the whole year. They lose out on multiple guys who might have been interesting hires. Right. And then they part ways with them. I don't get it. It's just. It's like, did he just not want to spend one more penny on a coach?

[Peter Schrager]

He doesn't. He doesn't buy guys out.

[Rob Harvilla]

Is Jerry Jones cheap?

[Peter Schrager]

He doesn't pay out with the coaches. He doesn't. He doesn't pay out. First of all, in the real world, you'd be. Everybody would be fine with this. Like, people should be able to play out their contract, and that's it. You have to give everybody an extension.

[Rob Harvilla]

But it's more like he missed out. Belichick and Brable were the two best guys, and he missed out on both of them.

[Peter Schrager]

Everybody's saying Belichick might have listened. He might not have taken that job. Maybe he'll even turn that job down, even though he has it in North Carolina. But. But, you know, I. I feel like no matter what, whenever they announce the head coach, my reaction. I would bet this is going to be minus 2000. That my reaction is going to be that that's. That's going to be it, no matter who they name. Unless it's Dion. That's going to be a lot. A lot more vitriol than that. But it's gonna be. It's gonna be a Ron Rivera type, isn't it?

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, worst case scenario is Jason Garrett.

[Peter Schrager]

That is terrible.

[Rob Harvilla]

That would be the funniest, like, funniest outcome is Jason Garrett or Billy Bob Thorton and Landman would be the two funny. The funniest outcomes. Deion, I think, would just be a disaster. Yeah, I think it's. It's already dicey enough to just grab a guy from college and make him an NFL head coach, not having been in the league at all against anybody, but to especially do it with somebody who's a pretty green college head coach. If you said, I also don't really believe that story, I, you know, I don't think it's hard to research, like, who broke the story. Do they have time? Are they maybe represented by the same marketing firm as the person who. You know, there's some red flags in general. I don't. It seems like it's good for both sides to pretend they might hire Deon. I don't think they're going to hire Deon. And if this blows up in my face, so be it.

[Peter Schrager]

I pray you're right, because it's. It's like I said, I don't know, is the shit show or a clown show? Let's maybe make a poll. Let's put out there.

[Rob Harvilla]

But what's crazier to you? Belichick turning his back on UNC after already going down the road, bringing people in, doing recruiting, and then being like, oh, shit, the cowboy job is available. Good luck, everybody. Thanks for everything, North Carolina. Is that crazy, or is it crazier just to hire Deion Sanders?

[Peter Schrager]

Well, coming from who? Like Belichick? I don't think that's a crazy move from him. I would expect anything from him at this point. I think it's kind of strange.

[Rob Harvilla]

He stabbed the jets in the back. That. What Was that in 2000? Yeah.

[Peter Schrager]

It wouldn't be good to do to Lombardi. You would have to bring Lombardi back. You'd have to put him on a podcast with Van Latham or something. I don't know what you would have to do with.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, Lombardi. We're here for Lombardi, if that happens.

[Peter Schrager]

But I don't think anything's worse than the Dion thing. I'm sorry. And then what? So what would they have to get Shador, too?

[Cousin Sal]

They trade.

[Rob Harvilla]

What do they do?

[Peter Schrager]

They trade. They trade to the Titans. Does Dakota, the Titans, and then more picks. And then they get Shador. This could be a complete.

[Rob Harvilla]

Can I gently nudge back here?

[Peter Schrager]

Sure.

[Rob Harvilla]

For. For content. The Cowboys hiring Deion is the fucking best. That's like the best. That would be the number one thing people talked about the entire off season. Dion in Dallas. Is this going to work? People like you would be like, here's why this isn't going to work. Other people like, nope, you're wrong. This. And we would just be off. It would be if you're going to have an 8 and 8, 8, 9. I guess 8, 9 now, because we have 17 games. You're an 89 team. You may as well have Dion as your coach and not, you know, random coach X. Ben Johnson do anything.

[Peter Schrager]

I'd be out of the content. I'd be out of the content business. So it wouldn't be good for content. I mean, for me, it wouldn't. I'd be out.

[Rob Harvilla]

Ben Johnson does nothing for you.

[Peter Schrager]

No, it's fine. That's good. Someone like that could deserve it, right? I think Aaron Glenn, right, Flores.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, Aaron Glenn, I think, is actually a really good coaching candidate.

[Peter Schrager]

Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

But it seems like he has. There's some jets buzz with him now.

[Peter Schrager]

I've heard that, too. And the, you know, Kellen Moore, he played there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like, yeah, if you're the jets, like, you want to get somebody who's actually been a part of your franchise and is willing to reconsider going back to it versus what most normal people's reactions would be to that of, I never want to see you guys again. I can't believe I was on the Jets.

[Peter Schrager]

How about no coach? How about no coach like Jerry? There's no gm. Why not try no coach? See what happens there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Maybe Jerry just wants to act after his Emmy Award winning performance at Landman. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he's got the acting bug I took. When I mentioned it to you, you didn't believe me.

[Peter Schrager]

You were right. You were right. I have to hand it to Jerry. When he does something good, that was phenomenal. The crying, whatever, the fake crying, really good acting, does it make, like, older, like, does Sir Anthony Hopkins look at that and be like, you son of a bitch. You're making it. Making a mockery of our business, our craft.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, it is like if Anthony Hopkins just, like, coached the Niners one year or one game and did like a really good quarter, just popped in and called some plays and was like, do this, do this to this. I'm trying to think of any other candidates. I think Variable would have been great, but we took them. Pete Carroll.

[Peter Schrager]

Pete Carroll.

[Rob Harvilla]

You've kind of moved sideways with McCarthy where you had this experienced veteran coach who's had success, who won a Super bowl in the past, but is in his mid-70s.

[Peter Schrager]

I'm really okay with anyone but the Clapper or Deion Sanders. That's it.

[Rob Harvilla]

So. So you do not. Your dnh. Do not hire. This is the Clapper.

[Peter Schrager]

That's it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Dave Campo. You wouldn't want Dave Campo back.

[Peter Schrager]

I'm ready to be somewhat disappointed either way, but it's gotta. It starts with those two at the top. Not that he's being considered. Jason Garrett. I mean, actually, his name is actually. It's actually up there. If there are some. You could look at odds. Some places. He's like third.

[Rob Harvilla]

Really?

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Was Aikman in any of the odds or.

[Peter Schrager]

No, I didn't see Aikman. No. He's happy being upset in the booth. He's not going to move on.

[Rob Harvilla]

Would you rather have Deion Sanders or Daniel Kellison as your head coach?

[Peter Schrager]

Daniel. Be fun.

[Cousin Sal]

Hey, buddy.

[Peter Schrager]

Daniel and Jerry drinking?

[Rob Harvilla]

No practice today.

[Peter Schrager]

Come here, girls. Look at the cheerleaders. Brought you guys. Isn't this nice? They made brownies, lemon shots for everyone.

[Rob Harvilla]

Our friend Daniel, our old executive producer, he would be really. He would definitely bring the 70s cowboys back.

[Peter Schrager]

Yes. Maybe.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, man, you're so. You're. You're in the dumps with this Dallas situation.

[Peter Schrager]

We just have to get off this Dion thing. And I think he made a statement today, and so I think you're right. They might be playing each other against. But he said Colorado is my home. Whatever. These guys are all liars anyway. But he said he couldn't leave, so.

[Rob Harvilla]

But I'm here for Colorado for at least the next five minutes. All right. All right, let's wrap it up. That was good. We went 32 minutes.

[Peter Schrager]

That's good.

[Rob Harvilla]

Two more than scheduled. So next time I see you will be Sunday night will be after the fourth playoff game.

[Peter Schrager]

Yeah, we go a little early.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, Bills, Ravens, we'll go a little early. We'll go hopefully live on YouTube and try to get that going. Try to get it up as fast as we can. All right, Sal, good job by you. All right.

[Peter Schrager]

Good job by you, buddy.

[Cousin Sal]

You can save every day by shopping at Whole Foods Market. Seriously. Don't just go for their big sales. Walk the store and see the savings for yourself. In the meat department, look for yellow low price signs on Whole Foods Market. No antibiotics ever. Chicken breast and ground beef.

[Rob Harvilla]

Quality, flavorful meats priced just right.

[Cousin Sal]

Perfect for big dinners with plenty left over for tomorrow's lunches.

[Rob Harvilla]

There are so many ways to save at Whole Foods Market. Now you know this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one. I can tell you this is true. I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time of Year with football, basketball, the holidays all at once. I can use my Apple card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, it's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple card today. It's easy. Just go to the wallet app on your iPhone again. That easy? Subject to credit approval, Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] Coming up, as promised, me and Peter Schrager talking about coaches and owners again. We taped this six days ago on Tuesday and ended up not running it because I ended up not doing that second and third podcast last week. So there's a lot of good stuff in there. Listen, if you want, it's a little dated, but not really. And I really like some of the stuff we talked about. So here it is right now. All right, we're taping this part of the podcast late Tuesday afternoon. Peter Schrager is here. Normally we don't have you on Tuesdays, but so much weird coach shit's happening in the NFL, I can't keep track. It's like you blink and another coach is on his way out. Did you expect it to be this chaotic or usually this happens after Monday. Why is it happening so staggered like this?

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, I didn't think that it would be this timing. I thought it would all go down Monday morning. The word I got on Antonio Pierce getting fired on a Tuesday afternoon as opposed to Monday was, well, that's Mark Davis. He goes at his own timeline and goes to the beat of his own drum. And, you know, they. Pierce does a presser and then, all right, that's a one o'clock Monday presser. It means nothing. Tuesday, he's shown the door. Mayo was interesting. You know, I go out of my way not to ever fire coaches unless I know they're getting fired. But there was a lot of reports over the weekend that Mayo was safe, barring some sort of calamity. And I'm like, well, I guess he didn't watch what happened the Saturday game against the Chargers where the entire crowd is chanting, fire Mayo. And they're going up to the box. And I think the comments by the linebacker, you know, on local radio calling out the fans matters. I think a lot of things happened in that last two weeks and then specifically in those last 24 hours. But Bravel interfering with the jets, don't minimize that. I think it might have rattled some cages. It could have lit some fires. But at the Very least, you know, it's. It all culminated in what you saw immediately after the game on Sunday.

[Rob Harvilla]

The Vrabel things really started going about three weeks ago. That's when the buzz started building. That's, you know, I don't think it was coming from him. I just think that it was clear he was going to be the number one candidate. And the Pats thing was going south. And we were talking about on this podcast every week, like sometimes you have the wrong coach. It happens. Sometimes a guy's not ready to be a head coach. It happens. There wasn't a single sign this season that year two was going to be better with the staff, with the head coaching, with the game management, with the preparation. The team was going backwards in every way. So I, you know, everyone I. It's really split in the people in my life because some people are pro. Ben Johnson and I just can't believe, like if they have a chance to get Vrabo, I just can't believe. A, he's available, B, he has Patriots ties, C, has a relationship with Kraft, D, he's a really good coach. I thought I went back and I deep dove some of his Tennessee stuff. First of all, goes makes the AFC title game with a 9 and 8 team. The next year goes 12 and 5 with Tannehill.

[Cousin Sal]

That's the Ravens. Good team.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, right. Tannehill. Half a season of Derrick Henry, all of a sudden Dante Foreman was a huge part of that team. AJ Brown about to get pushed out and beat some really good teams along the way that season. And then, you know, House and I got killed in million dollar picks. I remember, or in real life in the playoff game. Tannehill just completely shit the bed in round one. They were like eight point favorites. And from that point on, he never had a quarterback again. We had Tannehill washed up. Malik Willis was in there like they, you know, it was QB roulette. And then he eventually left because he didn't get along with the GM who is no longer there. He got fired today.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, this feels like a miracle that he's available.

[Cousin Sal]

I also think you're starting to see some of the stuff that was going on in Tennessee. You talk about instability. Tennessee fired in consecutive years, John Robinson the gm, then Mike Vrabel the head coach. Then they hired a new gm and of course they fired him this year. So three straight years they've had a firing of either a GM or a head coach, which doesn't tell me that's the most stable franchise either. I'm Not a, by the way, but.

[Rob Harvilla]

Kudos to the Titans, though, because, you know, we have these incompetent male owners. I'm glad we threw in an incompetent female. I like having the diversity. The incompetent female owner. It's just good to have her in there.

[Cousin Sal]

That's it. We can only talk about the Johnsons and whoever else for so long. Now we've got Amy Adams, Old Bridge, white guys.

[Rob Harvilla]

We're getting boring.

[Cousin Sal]

We needed to figure out, now we got white women. Yeah, I, I also am not a verbal apologist in that you look at the record down the stretch those last two years and a lot of people who are Titans fans have reached out to me because I've been beating the drum for Variable also saying how outrageous it is. And they're like, he, he. They didn't win. And everyone in the building was miserable under him at the end. So you take that too, and you're like, all right, well, I'm not there every day. So look, he. He did his year in Purgatory. He did his year with Cleveland wisely, got his contract to end the week before regular season ended, which was actually a brilliant move because he can interview in person, whereas the rest of these guys, even if you miss the playoffs, you cannot interview in person for a head coaching job.

[Rob Harvilla]

If you are employed by a. Yeah, that is smart. Did he do that intentionally or he got that.

[Cousin Sal]

I'm going to give him credit. He's. He's very good with rules in the games. If he played this one right. Because Bill, it was brilliant. He can meet in person. No other coach currently employed by an NFL team can meet in person until January 20th. And only the 1 seed teams, the guys from the Lions and the Chiefs, can even meet on Zoom this week to interview for head coaching jobs. So all these other guys, you know, the Liam Cohen who. Who's the offensive coordinator in Tampa, and the Cliff Kingsberry's and all these other guys who are playing this week who want to interview for jobs, they can't. And even when they can, it'll be in the future and they have to do it by zoom. Mike Vrabel can go on a traveling tour and meet with whoever. Now, the other guys who can do that, Pete Carroll, who we know is going to interview with the Chicago Bears this week, which is happening. And Adam Schefter was right all along on that. And we also know that Rex Ryan interviewed with the jets today. I can give you updates on that.

[Rob Harvilla]

Stop with Rex Ryan Rivera interviewed last.

[Cousin Sal]

Week and I guess that would be. And then Jon Gruden, if someone.

[Rob Harvilla]

Ron Rivera after his Sterling Sterling run in Washington. Let's get him another time.

[Cousin Sal]

If someone wanted to interview Gruden, they can interview Gruden because he's not currently employed anywhere. I don't think there's been any slips in for Gruden yet. So other than that, Vrabel's like, shit, okay, you want to interview Ron Rivera and Rex Ryan. All right. And interview me in person. All right. And then go interview Aaron Glenn on Zoom on Wednesday when he's trying to, you know, figure out his whole playoffs and all that stuff. So Frable timed this thing perfectly. And Bill, I hear you well, he's the hot candidate.

[Rob Harvilla]

There's no other. Who else is there?

[Cousin Sal]

Ben Johnson would be. Would be the hot name. And the thing with Ben that is appealing if you're the New England Patriots or for him, is he's got North Carolina ties. He was at the University of North Carolina. And you go to Drake May, and you go to May's family, and there's a real Carolina Chapel Hill thing. The irony, of course, is that Belichick's there now. It has nothing to do with it. And that with drake, May and $130 million in cap space, there is a lot to like if you are Ben Johnson walking into that situation as well, especially if you have a certain fondness for May. But I think it's all. But I would think variable. I would be shocked if it's not variable at the end of the day.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, they sped right this Rooney rule, which, you know, was an important rule they created, and then they just speed rush through it. It's basically a speed bump if you know that you're going to hire somebody. And the way that they rushed into interviews today to kind of get that part over, that's not good.

[Cousin Sal]

It's not good optics.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's bad optics, and it's not a good way to do it.

[Cousin Sal]

It's not the Patriots fault. That's the league rules, and they follow the rules. They interviewed two minority candidates. He told us we had to interview two minority candidates. We did it. And like, I know that sounds abrasive or whatever, but that's. That's the rules and they did it. And I see a lot of people saying they sidestep the rules. And it's like, go tell Pep Hamilton and Byron Leftwich that they were, you know, that they shouldn't have interviewed. Like, it's, it's a shame, but they want Variable or Ben Johnson and that's who their eyes are set on. And I'd be hard pressed calling out the crafts as, you know, as bigots or anything. They just. They just hired an African American coach last year. So I don't, you know, it's. It's. It's a troublesome situation for the league with the, with the minority.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's a rule that they can't. They can't really nail the rule. I think with the craftsman, I think they probably just looked at some spreadsheet. A friend of mine made this joke on passing along and whoever was the cheapest flight from wherever they live to Providence. Those probably, like, were the two they brought in. It's like Brian Leftwich. Oh, Jacksonville to Providence. It's $289, Coach. Let's get. Let's get. So let's put him in. This is my fear. If I, If I'm a coach taking over the Pats, they don't spend money, they medal. And they've been a fucking disaster for the entire 2000 and twenties. So Vrabel, I think, can at least walk in there and go, I know this building. I know the crafts. I know what the Patriots mean. I understand the Patriots way. Whatever the concept of that was, it's gone now with Belichick and Brady. They're both gone. But he at least understands it. He's a link to it. And all that could be appealing. On top of Drake, maybe it's the best situation of all the open situations. You mentioned Ben Johnson. This is. I started saying this earlier and I tailed off. This is a very divisive text thread subject now with the Pats fans of my life. And I was going to say Ben Johnson or Vrabel.

[Cousin Sal]

And here's the thing. When are you finally going to say enough with the building and enough with the Belichick and Brady and let's really start anew, because you bring Ben Johnson in, that's a guy who's been in Miami and that's a guy who has been in Detroit, and there is no real connection to that New England universe. And it's like, all right, I'm going to finally take a job after three years of being the hot candidate. I'm coming in. You're going to have to pay me X amount of dollars, and I'm going to want to bring in my guys. And no offense to what Mike Vrabel and Bill Belichick did in the 2006 season or what Tom Brady accomplished in 2010s, I think it's time you Guys needed a new coat of paint, and I'm going to bring it in, and if you're hiring me, you're giving me the freedom to do that.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't like your tone, Peter Schrager. I don't like your tone right now.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay. Vrabel, obviously is in a different boat, because I think it's actually interesting that Variable didn't choose to just go back to New England and work for Belichick. Yeah, he worked for Bill O'Brien. And, yeah, there's been connections, but he did it on his own. He went to Ohio State, he went to Houston, he went to Tennessee, and, like, he went out of it. He was also traded unceremoniously by Bill to Kansas City, and that wasn't, you know, necessarily his choice.

[Rob Harvilla]

Big mistake.

[Cousin Sal]

I don't get.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, let me throw this at you, because this is one of the things I've been talking about with people in my life. How many times does the hot play caller actually become a good coach? We've seen this over and over again. It's. It's the Steichen, you know, Kingsbury McDaniel. It seems like there's one or two every year. And it's like, this guy's a whiz kid. Bobby Slowik. Last year, coming up, that first Houston season, people are like, oh, Bobby now. It's like, you know, I don't think he has a shot in hell, but how many times does this guy actually work Versus my preference would be the culture guy, the Tomlin, the Harbaugh, the guy who's like, I'm not really a specialist at anything, but what I'm good at is building a football team, coaching different types of things, running a staff, being in charge of different units of a football team. That's my secret power. That's Rabel's secret power. That's what he's good at. I would rather have that versus the Wizkid offensive play caller, because we already have a great quarterback. Like, I'd actually rather have a really good defensive guy, a guy who could build an offensive line around him. We already have the talent in offense.

[Cousin Sal]

It's a great philosophical question. And it's also, you know, this year, there just isn't a large pool of that. So in recent years, Jim Harbaugh always flirted with the NFL, and we know there was considerations in Minnesota and there was considerations in Chicago. He's that guy. Harbaugh is a culture builder, whether you like him or not. And Kyle Brandt said it on your podcast before the Season started, wake out of bed. You're going to get 10 wins out of Jim Harbaugh the first year. And they got it and they got 11 and they went over. And they're one of your 27 teams that you got. Right? Because you knew Harbaugh is a winner. It's what he does everywhere he goes. I know it's divisive on your pod when I go and rave about him all the time, but Sean Payton is a winner. You bring Sean Payton in, he's bringing in his guys, he's bringing in his systems.

[Rob Harvilla]

Divisive with who? Like bots on. On the Internet.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know, off the podcast is free. Settle down.

[Cousin Sal]

Hey, we talk about how you're like freezing cold takes and all that. I got killed for the jets one, but I'm going to take a bow. I said the Broncos were going to the playoffs. I think I was the only person. I said, they're going to the wild card round. I'm like taking my victory lap. And everyone's like, we don't give a shit. Like, I'm like, all right. No.

[Rob Harvilla]

Nobody bats 100% at this. I had Scoot Henderson as a mortal lock to become an all star in the NBA and he can't even play.

[Cousin Sal]

We took a swing. You did a genius swing.

[Rob Harvilla]

I genuinely felt that way. You believed in the Jets. You discounted some. Some red flags with the history of the franchise and an aging QB coming. Now we know don't back an aging QB coming off an Achilles injury going forward. I know now I now know this. I had the jets winning the AFC East. Never again.

[Cousin Sal]

Never again to that, though recent years, there have been those guys or there's been a college coach that's like, ooh, like Urban Meyer at the time, they were like, jacksonville's in a free fall. Urban Meyer, you know, he's been a colle coach at a high level. Like Kirby Smart doesn't seem to be being mentioned right now. Deion Sanders. His name is not coming up right now.

[Rob Harvilla]

Well, it's coming up with. There's Vegas rumors with him already with.

[Cousin Sal]

D. Okay, well, that'll start coming. But then Nick Saban is not coming out of retirement, it sounds like. And then you start going down the list and it's like, all right, well, Kingsberry coach. But it wasn't like Kingsberry was Bill Walsh over there, so he's not really in that conversation. And Matt Nagy coach, but he got fired. He's not like a culture guy. We don't. So it's variable that's the only name. And you could say Pete Carroll and you know, but like, we're talking about ascending, you know, an exciting hire for the fan. Pete Carroll might be exciting for Bears fans. He's also in his 70s, and that's more like the Joe Gibbs. Bring him out of retirement or he.

[Rob Harvilla]

Got a little Seattle. I just think so. If you're hiring Pete Carroll, it's almost like a PR energy move where you're just trying to change some sort of bad stink around your building. Like, to me, Jacksonville, a team that's like been rock bottom the last couple years and just needs some sort of jolt, and he comes in, he's playing basketball with the coaches and, you know, he's great with the media and maybe that'll work, but that, it's not like for the Bears. That doesn't make sense.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. And again, he's a culture guy, so, like, he's got the energy of a, of a 40 year old or 50 year old. So, like, he'll run through. But I'm just saying, this year, that pool of like, leader of men, CEO, like, unless you're talking to Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh and I'm trying to think of, you know, you know, Andy Reid's not going. Those are the guys because they're CEOs and they run a team and they once were coordinators. Tomlin, of course, on the defensive side.

[Rob Harvilla]

So you're more on my side now with the. You want the coach to be more of a CEO. I'm not saying Ben Johnson can't do it, but I think over and over again, it's hard to, you know, this is something, you know, Lombardi's talk about this on the podcast all the time. That being running a unit versus running a team, people don't realize what a jump that is. And you actually have to be really interested in, hey, what's going on with the special teams? Why aren't we good at this with the defense? Hey, I've noticed when we're in nickel, this, this, and this is wrong. You can't just like be holding your play sheet. This is why McVay, who I think was a hot shot play caller story there, but he's not an offensive guy. Like, he's a I, coach, team guy. He's a big picture guy. He's, he's personnel. He's everything.

[Cousin Sal]

And here is your devil's advocate to that argument. So when Jeff Fisher got fired, they interviewed everybody. They really liked a few people. I remember they really liked Matt Patricia they liked Doug Marone. The Rams were in the market for a new coach and they had a lot of guys with a lot more experience. McVeigh was 30 and Stan Kroenke talking with Les Sneed and Kevin Demoff, their president. And he's like, I just don't know. He's young. And the argument that was made in the room by Kevin, Les, then eventually Stan got on board, was, okay, so he's young now and we miss on him this year and then next year he's hired by someone else. And he's 31 and he's doing it for somebody else. Mike Tomlin, when he was interviewing he was a defensive backs coach from the Minnesota Vikings, comes in, meets with them. Everyone thought that job was going to be Bruce Arians, or at the time, Russ Grimm, I believe, was the other one who was interviewing that it was going to be one of those guys. They hired Tomlin. You didn't know those guys were going to be leaders of men. They took a swing and they did it at a young age and it worked out. But there are so many other. The list is endless, from Nathaniel Hackett to, to all the other ones.

[Rob Harvilla]

So Hackett's your worst case scenario because yeah, that's a combo of play caller only, but also was working closely with Rogers and maybe wasn't as.

[Cousin Sal]

And it was with an offensive head.

[Rob Harvilla]

Coach and was with an offensive head coach. So that's like. So I'm looking back at some of the coaches that have been hired that have just coached in the last.

[Cousin Sal]

Dan Campbell is a CEO type. He was a tight ends coach, never called plays. And the Lions, but had experience though.

[Rob Harvilla]

He had like interim coach, so at least like knew the lay of the world. I feel like when it goes wrong for these coaches, they don't have a specialty, but they also don't know how to build a culture, which was the Mayo issue. Mayo was like, he's a defensive guy. It's like, was he. He was never even the defensive coordinator.

[Cousin Sal]

He's the outside linebackers coach. Yep.

[Rob Harvilla]

And. And it's like, is he a culture guy? Is he. Because our culture is going sideways, as this goes. It's a good problem to have, I guess. Bill O'Brien is another example of like, oh, offensive guru. But the culture thing in Houston never got there, right.

[Cousin Sal]

Well, they gave him the reins. He eventually grew into a really good head coach and then he also had player personnel decision, so he ended up being that guy. And then it all came tumbling down.

[Rob Harvilla]

That was like almost too much for Him. Yeah, I think it's going to be variable.

[Cousin Sal]

If I'm putting my money down, I'm saying it's variable as well.

[Rob Harvilla]

Let me ask you on a. On a shock scale, if it is variable. Josh McDaniel is OC.

[Cousin Sal]

Oh, not shocked at all. Not shocked at all. I mean, his kids spent 15 years living. Remember, he was with New England forever, and he took.

[Rob Harvilla]

He might still be living in that area.

[Cousin Sal]

And his kids went to high school there. Like, there is. There is a lot. And he didn't end on bad terms there. He took a job with the Raiders. He didn't leave. He didn't get, like, blown out the door. So, Yeah, I think McDaniels is a very good possibility.

[Rob Harvilla]

John Gruden as what? O.C. i think so. That would shock you. That sounds like a seven and a half, eight.

[Cousin Sal]

I'm going through the head because. No, I think. I mean, I've spoken to multiple people around the league and they're surprised that Gruden hasn't gotten head coaching interviews. And the only reason he wouldn't is because of the emails from 2012 that came out. Or 20. I think 2012 is when they were. And obviously they're horrendous emails. But that's the reason why everyone thinks Gruden is an elite play caller and can still be one of those leader of men culture guys. And I actually think the barstool stuff that he's been doing, where he's out there and he's on videos and a whole different generation is seeing him break down and tell stories and be human, like that stuff works. And it was what I think Belichick was trying to do this season, too, by doing the McAfee and the Manning cast. Like, let me show a different side of you guys, of me, that I'm not some grump. And I think it worked to a point that he got that. That North Carolina job as well.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's smart. Pat Riley invented it.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Went to NBC. Right.

[Rob Harvilla]

Left the Lakers, did studio on NBC for one year.

[Cousin Sal]

Who was he with? Who was the studio?

[Rob Harvilla]

It's him and Costas. It was actually really good. It was one of the first good.

[Cousin Sal]

And what Was that? Like 1990?

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. And then just seemed handsome and like he knew what the fuck he was talking about. And then it led to the Knicks just turning the. Turning everything over to him after John.

[Cousin Sal]

McLeod was the Knicks coach. Who was the Knicks coach before?

[Rob Harvilla]

There's a bunch of him. There's a bunch of. A bunch of bad ones.

[Cousin Sal]

Stu Jackson.

[Rob Harvilla]

What do you think the best open job is?

[Cousin Sal]

To me, I would have said Jacksonville if they blew out the GM because the owner doesn't medal. The owner does it. But you're inheriting a GM who is a survivor. A classic office politics survivor. And I don't know. Trent Balky. I'm in this a long time and I know a lot of people say he's a fine guy, like we've met, but he has a way with this owner and he's had a way with Jed York when he was in San Francisco that he outlasted everybody. So I don't know if you're a head coach, if you're a young guy like Ben Johnson who's been waiting for this opportunity and has turned down offers and has really been really thoughtful and deliberate with this. If you're going into a job where a GM has now is getting his third head coach. So the best job. I mean, I know it sounds like I'm kissing your ass or I'm being a.

[Rob Harvilla]

You're not kissing my ass. The best job is the pat's job. The downside is you have the crafts. The crafts, the front office, the lack of spending.

[Cousin Sal]

But the salary cap money is there. There's $130 million.

[Rob Harvilla]

Will they spend it? I mean, also, I think what people realized after Belichick left was Belichick was. He was the. He was the guy, you know, who was the superintendent of the building but could also show the. Show the units but could also fix anything that happened. And also lived in the building. And he basically was worth seven things.

[Cousin Sal]

He was the super downstairs.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, yeah, he was Mr. Roper combined with an electrician. But I think when he left, I don't think they realized how many small stuff because he was so hands on and so all over the place. So he leaves and they have this bare boned everything after that. And the crafts have been super cheap in every respect for the last 10 years. What did they get an F in that player and family thing? Yeah, they sat on the amazing this year. I would be. If I was taking that job. I'd be nervous. I'm like, are you guys. How much is Jonathan going to medal? How much am I going to be able to spend? Are you guys going to start spending more on scouts? Am I going to be able. Like part of the reason they couldn't get offensive defensive coaches, coordinators. Van Pelt was like the 12th offensive coordinator. They weren't paying big bucks for it. Yeah, it's like, you want to be our offensive coordinator? Here's a shitty offer and our team sucks. It's like, oh, I can't believe we couldn't hire anyone.

[Cousin Sal]

Do you think that year of misery and hearing fire Mayo and having CBS cameras shoot to them after every bad play, you know, showing the owners on.

[Rob Harvilla]

And the Apple doc.

[Cousin Sal]

And the Apple doc. Do you think that spurs them to now open up the wallets? Remember that one year Belichick. Belichick was able to go bonkers with free agency, and he did after that horrible in between. Year after Brady now, by the way, underrated free agency.

[Rob Harvilla]

Looking back, John. Ooh, Smith, Hunter, Henry, all those guys. Janice Smith was an awesome weapon. I don't know what happened to him in New England.

[Cousin Sal]

Judah Judon, right?

[Rob Harvilla]

Judah?

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, Go back.

[Rob Harvilla]

And I was like, all right, not bad.

[Cousin Sal]

I would also say with the Patriots, you know, they're going to now be paying. They're paying for that mistake. Gerard Mayo is going to be paid out his full contract as an NFL head coach. So I know this is a league thing. It's also an owner thing. Like, there is, I believe the number was something like hundreds of millions of dollars. That is just dead money that owners are spending on fired coaches around the NFL right now.

[Rob Harvilla]

That's like a strong safety. It's like It's. They have 53 rosters.

[Cousin Sal]

I know, but. But for a league that likes to maximize its money and pour things into international and pour things into flag football and pour things into women's flag football.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

For the owners to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on fired coaches so they can laugh and get paychecks and double dip with other teams, like, that's not a good look either. So for the Patriots, if you're telling me that they're notoriously not big spenders, to know all of that and still fire Mayo after one year and still pay him out his full contract tells you just how bad things were in that building.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, I don't think he was. Making a shitload of money would be my only thing. But you made me think of something, though. I. Maybe they should pass a rule that if the fired coaches then have to do media for the NFL as part of their contract.

[Cousin Sal]

There you go.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like, they. They just, like, have to be on. We have you on retainer.

[Cousin Sal]

You got to.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's like, coach, franchise. The Belichick started. Now it's like, now we have Gerard Mayo and Robert Salah. The worst job out of all the open jobs, in your opinion.

[Cousin Sal]

I think the Saints job. I think the Saints job's tough because The Saints job, you still got Derek Carr on the books. That's a franchise that still hasn't torn it all down. And you still got Cam Jordan, you still got Demario Davis. And it's a roster that's kind of in between. Now Mickey Loomis is the gm. He's been there forever. He's got great success. And I think there's a lot to like about working in that building. You kind of lay low. You're. You're in your own little world. Peyton loved it there for years. And obviously Mickey's going to do a good job with free agents in the draft, but it just feels like you're still in a purgatory there until they tear that whole thing down. And the quarterback position is Derek Carr for the. For the near future counter.

[Rob Harvilla]

Pretty mediocre division. Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Winnable games.

[Rob Harvilla]

That would be the case for Jacksonville, too. You take over Jacksonville, you just look around and like, ah, we could. I think the worst job's the Raiders because you got Mark Davis, who just seems like he changes his mind every five seconds.

[Cousin Sal]

It's a different building, man. Like, I know all the league. Like, there are 31 teams and there are the Raiders. Like, there are people in that building who I really trust, good sources. And I'm like, so I guess AP is good. And like, dude, we don't know. Like, they didn't know. No one knew. And then today he's fired. It's like, all right, on we go.

[Rob Harvilla]

You know, so you have the organization. Complete, absolute clusterfuck. I'm also in the same division as the Chiefs, Chargers and Broncos.

[Cousin Sal]

I have those coaches.

[Rob Harvilla]

I have Mahomes, Herbert, and even Bo Nix. And then I have those three coaches. And I'm just the black sheep of that division. I also have the, you know, a pretty high pick in this bat in this draft, but not high enough to really do anything. I got Brock Bowers and Max Crosby, and that's about it. That's a brutal job. And my owner's already paying three other coaches before he started to pay me. And they. They whipped on so many drafts that even hitting the Bowers pick.

[Cousin Sal]

Do you want the crazy irony of this whole thing? So last year around this, I was at the Senior bowl, and obviously I'm talking to Kingsbury. He took his year with usc. He was working, working with Caleb, and he was working with Lincoln Riley, and he interviewed for several offensive coordinator jobs. He interviewed for the Philly job, wasn't offered, interviewed for the Chicago job. They gave it to Shane Waldron instead Even though he had the history with. With Caleb. And then he interviewed with the Raiders job, and it was all set. It was done. And then at the end, there was a hiccup on the. The. The length of years on the contract, and there was a miscommunication, and Cliff was like, I don't like where this is going. I don't like where this is setting up to go. And he's like, I liked Antonio Pierce, but I didn't know what was going on. And there was a lot of, like, people. I met with them twice in person. Then Dan Quinn called and was like, do you want to be our offensive coordinator? The number two overall pick? And he's like, I'm in love with Jaden Daniels. Yeah, let's do that instead.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

The irony is they have now fired Antonio Pierce. So you take his salary. They fired Luke Getze, the offensive coordinator. You take. Take his salary. They fired several other offensive coaches. It's about $20 million mistake right there if you thought Cliff was the guy based on length of the contract for the offensive coordinator position. So there's just little things like that that people don't seem to, like, look big picture at, and there's like, oh, they fired their coach again. But it's every step along the way that gets you there.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's funny that every single job has some sort of. Yeah, but attached to it, right? Like, the jets actually have talent.

[Cousin Sal]

That's the thing.

[Rob Harvilla]

But it's like, how do you take that job and know that you're dealing with the owners and all the dysfunction that's there? The Bears, you have a potential franchise quarterback. I used the word potential because I wouldn't say it was like the greatest Caleb year. You have some weapons. You're okay. You're in an absolutely brutal division, but that front office and that organization is a fucking hornet's nest. Like, you're walking in a Game of Thrones the moment you get in there. Is there, like, a worse hornet's nest organization than the Bears right now? Probably not.

[Cousin Sal]

Well, it's just a lot of cooks in the kitchen, and they'll tell you that Ryan pulls the GM is the one at the switch, but he's got a president above him who's very active in Kevin Warren, and it's like, okay, well, if he's the one at the switch, well, who am I reporting to? Because am I reporting to him? Or. Then you got the McCaskeys. And then there's other people in the building, too. So those interviews, I'm curious to see who's at the table because there's so many different voices and you like to think they're all on one page, I've been told. And I think there's two things here. One, Ben Johnson has this reputation that I think is actually wrong. I've gotten to know Ben a little bit over the last few years, and I think, you know, good offensive coach obviously does all this stuff, but, like, good dude. Seems like his name was dragged through the mud last year for what happened in Washington, where he went down the road with Washington and Bob Myers and Josh Harris, and those guys thought he was going to be the head coach, or at least they were flying out to meet with him, and he pulled his name at the last second. And I think that rubbed a lot of people wrong. And then around the league it became.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, they made it seem like he left his husband at the altar or something. No doubt. He just decided not to take the job.

[Cousin Sal]

And he told him, I'm not going for the. I don't want to interview again. He didn't even accept the job. We've seen Josh McDaniels accept job at Indianapolis and then bail. Like, that's something that I'm like, yeah, but, like, then Ben's name got absolutely trashed as, like, some. Some, like, maniacal, mad genius. That's not him. Like, that's not him. And it's. It's going to be interesting to see how the narrative of him goes if he doesn't take one of these jobs and goes back to Detroit because Carolina was his a couple years ago, if he wanted to go for that. I think David Tepper and those guys were very interested in him. Didn't interview. Stay with Detroit. Washington was probably his if he wanted it last year. Didn't interview. Interviewed once, didn't interview the second time. Stays with Detroit. And if he's not blown away by Chicago or wherever else he's interviewing, like, he doesn't need to take.

[Rob Harvilla]

I wouldn't take the Chicago. Jeff.

[Cousin Sal]

Guess what? He. I know it's going to come out, oh, cool.

[Rob Harvilla]

I get to be in the same division as Detroit, Minnesota and Green Bay, and I have no offensive line.

[Cousin Sal]

He didn't. He's not interviewing with the Jets. And a lot of people are going to say, well, why aren't the jets trying to interview him? I think the jets got word that, like, he's not looking to go there, and that's okay and that's fine. So I think the Caleb Williams thing is exciting. First overall pick has crazy, raw talent. And there is an allure to being the coach of the Chicago Bears. It's one of those prestige franchises. It's not the Jaguars, it's not the Saints. It's the Chicago Bears. And there is something to be said for when you win in that city, what a legend you can be, which.

[Rob Harvilla]

We haven't seen for 40 years. The bears job is like, good, fellas. It's like, no, no, it's over there.

[Cousin Sal]

It's like walking down that 9th Street.

[Rob Harvilla]

No, no, no, no, no. It's right over there. Keep going. I just wouldn't go near it. Let's take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Viori. I love sports. I know you do, too. I also know that lots of you exercise. But if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear. Especially. You know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around la, I make calls, I listen to podcasts. Here are two words that will change everything. Viori Clothing. A line of activewear that is unbelievable. The best thing about Viori is you can lounge around in it, you can work out in it, you can go outside, you can go shopping down in your local wherever, and you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable. You can wear it. When you're training, traveling, lounging around the house, go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at vuori.comsimmons Once again, V U O-R-I.comsimmons this episode is brought to you by Peloton. Life's always changing. One season you're trying to break personal records and the next you're just looking for a solid routine. Peloton is here for all of it, with workouts that flex to fit your schedule. Whatever it looks like you've got options. From four week strength programs to running, cycling and everything in between. Peloton's got the tools to adapt to whatever goal you're chasing in this season of your life. And here's the real kicker. With Peloton's All Access membership, you can work out wherever you need to at home on the bike, tread or row or even on the go with the app. Take your favorite classes with you to the gym, on the road, wherever. So whatever you're aiming for, that 5am club or squeezing in a late night session, Peloton is ready whenever you are. Find your Push. Find your power with Peloton at onepelaton. Com. I have to ask you, you talk to a lot of people. What was the reaction to people in the league to the Patriots actually winning that Week 18 game? Was that in your text? Were people just like, what just happened?

[Cousin Sal]

No, because that's the league, and we've seen it year after year after year. I think I've told you on the podcast that there's only like a handful of games in my life covering the final week where the bad team actually doesn't show up and loses. And one of them, you have to do what you have to physically go out of your way to put backups in and give them no preparation. And I'd called a game, and I wouldn't accuse them of doing this on. On record, but I would just say this. The Buccaneers were playing the Saints in the final week of the season, and Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota were the two top picks in the following draft. The Bucks had like, two, and they played all backups. And I remember Sean Payton after the fact being like, for real. Like, that's that you guys played those guys. And of course they secured the number one overall pick. And they would say, well, we didn't. We were just playing our guys. Gerard Mayo had no reason to abide by any rules. He put in Johnson.

[Rob Harvilla]

That was part of the problem.

[Cousin Sal]

So what would you have done? Would you have fired him on Saturday and said, you can't play? We. You can't coach week 18.

[Rob Harvilla]

It will.

[Cousin Sal]

They clearly save his job if he. At that point, the decision was made.

[Rob Harvilla]

They clearly knew based on how long that statement was. That came out like an hour, 30 seconds. That takes like three hours to get that statement correct. So they obviously had that during the week.

[Cousin Sal]

So what do you do in hindsight? Do you fire him on Saturday and say, I think you let.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think if you know you're going to do it, you let him go. Midweek, you have somebody take over. I don't think you play any of the starting receivers, right? Even Booty playing was. Was crazy. Like, they. It should have been Poke and Baker game. They're playing Antonio Gibson. They're playing Milton the whole game. The Bills were like, wait, Trubisky's doing too well. They yanked him.

[Cousin Sal]

Mike White's in.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, you watched the Chiefs. They were like, whoa, wait, we want dope. Yeah. There's ways to do this. And the problem is they, they. Milton was really good against Buffalo, second string, and then Buffalo, once they realized they had a chance to screw the Pats. They were like, great, here's Mike White. Did you know Mike White was still in the league?

[Cousin Sal]

I didn't know Mike White was still in the league. And they're punting the ball on the New England 35 and they're, you know, it. It's really hard to look at the coach in the face, look at the players in the face and be like, don't go out and win, even if they're backups. So I, I think, surprised me. The fact the Giants lost, the fact that Giants beat the Colts is still one of the most insane things because they're in desperate need of a quarterback.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

And they, they, they won that game. And they played themselves out of the first or second.

[Rob Harvilla]

That was. I watched that game and I had money in the Colts. Drew Lock was great.

[Cousin Sal]

He was. Awesomes.

[Rob Harvilla]

Were absolutely horrific neighbors. Yeah. This Pats thing was different because you at least have to have the OC involved. You tell the OC you're coming back next year. Can you just call a lot of runs up the middle on third and third and eight or some bad screen passes. I don't know. It's.

[Cousin Sal]

But you said it to Sal on Sunday night, like. And I know you made the joke with jack shit, but it's like, if you were to tell me that we made this monster trade and the trade was just the first overall pick for the fourth overall pick, but we won that game, like, and we fired the coach. It is truly insane on paper. And yet we see it year after year that this happens. The final team in the final week wins a meaningless game, and the players celebrate on the sideline because they. They've got pride. And then they cost themselves the first overall pick. It happens every year.

[Rob Harvilla]

I was talking to a couple people about it this week, how crazy it is how expensive these franchises are. Each one of them is a business worth between 5 and 10 billion dollars. And at least half of them are run horribly. Like, they're the diner down the street where you're like, why did they have to shut down the diner again? What happened? It's like, oh, Sky. Hepatitis B. The chef. So they had to fire him. Then the hell stepped in. But it's going to be back. You'll be able to get omelets in a couple of weeks. That's like how 10 NFL teams are run.

[Cousin Sal]

It's.

[Rob Harvilla]

I just don't understand it. I don't understand how people. This is. I know some of the times they inherit it. It's been explained to me like, Sometimes the people that own the teams, the personality of whatever got them into that job is basically how they operate the team. So if you're a hedge fund guy, you look at everything as like, risk this. Boom, boom. What are my two choices? If you're like somebody who builds and has a lot of different people reporting to you, maybe do that, maybe delegate more. If you inherited it because you were some rich kid, then it's the combo of, I want to prove that I'm not just the rich kid. But you also don't have kind of the history or the. Or the street smarts to know how to operate this year to year. So it's pretty rare to just find good owners, you know, and we know who the good owners are.

[Cousin Sal]

Absolutely. And you know which owners have gained the trust. I'm going to find a tweet. So there's a guy, Jake Rosenberg, he used to work for the Eagles, and now he's like a gm. He writes this, and it was a tweet, and I thought it was like, pretty spot on. Running a comprehension. A comprehensive search for a head coach is exhaustive and expensive and generally a huge pain in the ass. At the end of the day, not all owners prioritize winning enough to justify the expense and the time burning. Sad, but true. Most NFL GM hires are doomed from day one. And the reason is those who hire have a lack of clarity in what skills and experience actually determine success in the role, which is so true. So you have these owners who time and time again are the ones making the decisions, and they're the ones at the table like, well, I like that guy. Okay? He's the. But we have no. We have no justification that they know what it takes week to week, day to day, in the building to actually identify it. So it is, you know, a mild piece of insanity where the owner of the company is the one sitting at the table and he has the right to pick this year after year. But, like, the people making the decisions don't necessarily know exactly what goes into being a great coach.

[Rob Harvilla]

It's pretty crazy. And then you have somebody who finally figures it out, like the Chargers. And they were a while. They're like, you know what we should just do? Let's just bring Jim Harbaugh on and let him figure it out. That's what you do if you're the owner. Just overspend on the guy who could run the whole thing for you.

[Cousin Sal]

The Broncos were such a bad place after Nathaniel Hackett, and they had missed the. They basically told Sean Payton name Your price, we'll pay you the highest amount of money. Just come in and just build this thing back. And like, they didn't look back. The owner. Yeah, you know, they're Walmart folks, and it's Greg Penner, and they're, from what Sean says, great owners. And they just let them do, like.

[Rob Harvilla]

A $250 million salary cap a year out. So it's like, oh, oh, no. I have to pay my coach $10 million. I think they give a shit.

[Cousin Sal]

So the jets thing is interesting. So this year, instead of it being Woody, you know, meeting with. They bring in Tannenbaum and Spielman, who used to do the job but have been removed. And I'm not sure they casted a very wide net here. And they're doing in person interviews tomorrow. We're recording this on Tuesday. So they're interviewing two GM candidates tomorrow. Alec Calabi, who is kind of the strategy and analytics and also does. He's the assistant general manager in Philly under Howie right now. And then a guy, Mike Borgonzi, who's the number two to Rhett Veach in Kansas City. Those are the right names. You should meet them. They're doing it, but the room is Spielman, Tannenbaum, and then it's Chris Johnson, Woody Johnson, and then it's Jaime, who's their president, and then maybe one or two other people. So you like to think that these. That's, you know, bringing in Tannenbaum and Spielman, who have done this before and have hired helps, but I don't know. We'll see how it turns out, right?

[Rob Harvilla]

I'm dubious. I'll tell you one guy. If I. So if. If. If I was buddies with an NFL owner and they called and just said, what should I do? And it was the list of the usual suspects, right? You know, this guy. This guy's bouncing around. Hey, there's Pete Carroll. I really like the Notre Dame coach, dude. And I barely know anything about college football.

[Cousin Sal]

I had to.

[Rob Harvilla]

But are we. Are we sure that he just can't be overwhelmed with some, like, why can't he be the Bears coach? He's already in that part of the country.

[Cousin Sal]

Anyway, go back to November. I reported on Fox NFL Kickoff. It blew up on all the Notre Dame blogs I reported.

[Rob Harvilla]

Oh, you became a Notre Dame villain?

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, because when they fired Eberfluss, I said, a name that's being talked about is Marcus Freeman in Chicago, which it was. And he has Big Ten connections with Kevin Warren. He was an Ohio State player, obviously went through the ranks, he was a hot name within that Bears organization. And then I was accused of being used as, like, leverage because they gave him a huge extension in Notre Dame. Just what happened? But I would still call him, dude. He's a great coach.

[Rob Harvilla]

What does an extension mean? He could still leave 100%.

[Cousin Sal]

Pay him more. Break the contract.

[Rob Harvilla]

Marcus, I really like that guy. To me, he seems like a culture guy, which is what you should be looking for if you're the fucking Bears and you have no culture at all other than the Hornets nest.

[Cousin Sal]

It was real. I mean, that was real interest.

[Rob Harvilla]

What do you.

[Cousin Sal]

What do you think of Dion as an NFL head coach? Does that do anything for you? Is there just too much that comes with that? With.

[Rob Harvilla]

Really doesn't. I. I just don't think he's been a head coach for long enough, and it seems too risky. I don't want to be risky with my $7 billion team. Like, if you're New Orleans, I would think about it, right? I'm going nowhere for two years. Let him take his lumps. Let him learn on the job. But I just think going from college to the NFL in general, there's been so few success stories. We've seen some of the best college coaches ever weren't that good as an NFL coach, you know, So I just think it's a slightly different skill set. That's why the Marcus Freeman, I don't know, I did a deep dive on him, and I was just enjoying. Intrigued by him because he's awesome. And just, like, watching him on the sidelines, like, just as. I don't know, there's something about him. Ceruti, are you on this.

[Cousin Sal]

That fourth down play where they threw the guys and they threw the punt team on, and then they did the fake punt and they drew him offside. That was the coolest play of the college football season.

[Rob Harvilla]

So, Rudy, what do you think of Marcus Freeman as an NFL head coach?

[Ceruti]

He's 38. He did play for the Bears, which is interesting. Yes, he did. He's made Notre Dame, like, kind of likable, too, to the neutral, you know, I feel like my whole life. Yeah, like, it's like, ah, Notre Dame, like. Like, you know, unless you're a fan, you kind of hate them.

[Cousin Sal]

I don't know.

[Ceruti]

I kind of like this Notre Dame fan because you go from Brian Kelly, who, you know. Yeah, respect, you know, not. Not a very likable dude. And now it's like, wait, bark is free. This guy's awesome. So I. I don't Know, I mean, I don't know if it worked, but I think it would win the PR fight start.

[Rob Harvilla]

I. To me, I would much rather do that than some retread or roll the dice with some offensive coordinator who's not even that hot of an offensive coordinator. Ceruti, if you could take any college coach and make them an NFL coach, who would it be?

[Ceruti]

Oh, man.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like that actually would succeed, in your opinion? Because you. You love college football.

[Cousin Sal]

You follow it, you love it.

[Rob Harvilla]

Is there a guy that you were like, man, I bet that guy would be a good NFL coach, man.

[Ceruti]

Freeman. Freeman is.

[Cousin Sal]

I'll give you. I'll give. I'll give you the name that's been buzzed a little bit. Hasn't got any.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Sark is a name that. Because he has NFL experience and he's great on the offensive side of the ball, and he's kind of got this, you know, bravado around him that he can dominate over him. And he was great in Atlanta for that year with Dan Quinn. But go on through. I want your thoughts.

[Ceruti]

He's like Cliff with more success, like, right at the college level, essentially, because he's actually won some games. Even though I do like Cliff, you.

[Rob Harvilla]

Know, is Dan Lanning. That. That doesn't make sense. He's not. No, that's not a specialty guy. He's got more than a.

[Ceruti]

He's got Marcus Freeman.

[Cousin Sal]

If Landing had won that game, I think there'd be a lot more buzz. Not that it cost him anything, but, like, there was. There's some. There were some people at NFL teams asking me if I'd heard anything on him.

[Ceruti]

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, it's. It's kind of. It's kind of fleeting, though, because. Remember Lincoln Riley a couple years ago, I was like, hey, this guy going to be an NFL coach? And now it's like, nobody, you know, is he going to get fired? Like, is he any good? So it's tough. I didn't name the offensive guys. Yeah, the offensive guys are always sexy.

[Cousin Sal]

PJ Fleck was a name for a while at Minnesota. Not. Not Matt Campbell. Iowa State was the hottest name. Matt Rule was a hot name. Obviously he got one of those deals.

[Ceruti]

Like Kirk Farron's all those years. It was always like, is Kirk Farren's going to get a job? Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

Are we sure Matt Rule couldn't be a good NFL coach?

[Cousin Sal]

He might be. I don't know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Like, I go back, like, that famous picture that got floated around during this season, this year of Darnold and Mayfield together in the Carolina that. That team he put together. And then I felt like he got fired a little prematurely. I know they weren't doing great, but then that team almost made the playoffs. The team that he, that he did. But he was like the hottest name of the past.

[Cousin Sal]

So hot.

[Rob Harvilla]

Six years for college. Now he's just not a good coach anymore because he went to go with Dave. David Tepper.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Did Nebraska do any thing this year? I know they had the kid that dresses like Mahomes and they play that Pinstripe Bowl, Dom Raiola's kid.

[Rob Harvilla]

But are they.

[Cousin Sal]

Was he viewed as a good, like Nebraska great this year or.

[Ceruti]

No better than. You know, the problem with Nebraska is like of all the, like the down, you know, historic programs, they're probably like the hardest one to bring back because it's just how do you get. How do you get talent there? You know, you just get all the big offensive linemen and whatever. But, yeah, I think, yeah, that. That's a huge turnaround.

[Rob Harvilla]

The thing is, I personally would much rather roll the dice with Freeman, Dan Lanning, Matt Rule again, versus, like, I, I love Pete Carroll, but I just. I don't see it. I don't see how that should move when he's 75 years old or however old he is.

[Cousin Sal]

If we're playing connect the dots, I would say if Rabel goes to New England, I would imagine Ben Johnson is Chicago and he just needs to just bite the bullet and say, I don't know what I'm walking into, but, like, I want that job. I want that quarterback. If he's going to leave, I would think Chicago Jets. I would look at Aaron Glenn. I would look at. I would look at him as a former Jet and a defensive coach, which might not be brought him up.

[Rob Harvilla]

I've been. I was so impressed by him in that Minnesota game. I did. I thought that was coaching win. Yeah, it really was so good.

[Cousin Sal]

And he's a former Jet and he's all business and he's waited his turn and he's been with New Orleans and he's been with Detroit. The other name for the Jets. There's two other names that I would say and obviously I've got sources there. But like, it's going to go down to the interviews. I don't have an idea how these guys do.

[Rob Harvilla]

They're interviewing 12 people.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Joe Brady in Buffalo interviewed with the jets back in 19, back in that same year where Todd Monken and Matt Richard Rule and all those guys interviewed and Adam Gates got The job. And Joe Brady was like, 30 when he interviewed with them and was awesome in the interview. He was just too young and it wasn't time. He has since done the whole thing. He went to Carolina, then he went to Buffalo. That could be an exciting hire. And then Arthur Smith is a name that will not get the fans excited. But he interviewed in 21 when they gave it to Salah and really did a good job with the jets interview there and was the hottest name. And then he chose Atlanta. And then. You've got to now build yourself up. Now, look, I don't know if Pittsburgh's offense is worthy of a head coach being hired, but Arthur Smith's an adult in the room and, you know, he's competent. It's just he's never had a quarterback in either Atlanta. And I would argue in Pittsburgh either.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah. If I was Arthur Smith in the interview, Cerutty, they'd be like, so what happened, Atlanta? I would just be like, can you go on Pro Football Reference and look at the fucking quarterbacks I had? That's what happened. What am I going to do? I had Marcus Mariota and the Riddler, Desmond Riddler. What was I going to do?

[Ceruti]

That's why I surprised Triggs that, like, most of these guys, like, why isn't quarterback, like, almost more important? Like, Harbaugh, I feel like the second time around was like, all right, I'm not going to a place quarterback.

[Rob Harvilla]

Because he's smart. Yeah. Sean Payton. Sean Payton, I think knew that. But it was like, wait, how much money?

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. No, and they told him.

[Rob Harvilla]

They told him, give him a year. It's this much money.

[Cousin Sal]

Give it a year and you'll figure out much.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, but that's why. That's why the Pats are in such a good spot with Drake, man. Because there's seven of those guys in.

[Cousin Sal]

The league, and he's one of them. And Caleb's. Caleb might be, too. So that's why I think he's possibility. I think they know that. That's why New Orleans is difficult. Jacksonville, the book is out on Trevor Lawrence. Like, Jacksonville, to me, saw the list of names. Like, that's like, you know, maybe Liam Cohen, who's the offensive coordinator in Tampa, he gets a shot. He worked with McVay, and like, he's very highly viewed. Maybe that's the Jacksonville guy. And it's like, all right. Like, all right, it's his first year. He's a quarterback guy. He'll work with Trevor Lawrence. We'll see. But I don't Know if anyone's banging down the doors to work with Trent Balky and Trevor Lawrence.

[Rob Harvilla]

Trevor Lawrence would be Sariti. Do you admit defeat yet on Trevor Lawrence or no? Still, hold on.

[Ceruti]

No, absolutely not. That's a Jaguars problem. I think he's going to be fine. I don't know if he's going to be like a top five guy.

[Rob Harvilla]

Serenity never admitted defeat on Jonathan Isaac. So he's got a good track record.

[Ceruti]

That is true. I refused to trade him for years.

[Rob Harvilla]

He held in. He was always. He was turning down every Jonathan Isaac.

[Cousin Sal]

Traitor crushing the Knicks last night. I was watching.

[Rob Harvilla]

I look, on the one hand, I'm a big quarterback, has to be in the right situation with the relatively right coach guy. On the other hand, I just don't see it from Lawrence. I don't see it like the way Sam Darnold played in that Lions game when he was sailing the ball and everything. That Lawrence does that every game. And Darnold, at least you could make excuses for him. It was like the hostile environment. It was probably the biggest game of his career. You know, he got off to kind of a iffy start. Like, I, I'm. I've watched him all year. I'm willing to excuse it. I just. How many times can Lawrence just suck?

[Ceruti]

But that's why I think so. That's why I think the best job, Shrigs is like if, if, if Ben Johnson wants the Jags job and he goes, hey, I'll take the job if you fire Balky, like, yeah.

[Cousin Sal]

Do you think. Which I think there is a window because Shad Khan, I mean, Balky's on the Zoom and Shad Khan, they asked him about it and he's like, if the head coach comes in and says he wants me to reevaluate the gm, I will. So that's, that's why I thought it was such an appealing job from the go, because the cons really do not meddle. They're one of these owners that are super wealthy. They've got a million different interests, and they're like, we're hiring the coach to do what he does, and the son's.

[Rob Harvilla]

Running a wrestling league. I'm so glad you brought this up because this is another friend, because I was talking to a bunch of people this week and this friend said the most single most important thing a coach should look for is the metal scale with an owner.

[Cousin Sal]

Yes.

[Rob Harvilla]

And it was like, Washington, they barely talk to 20 of them. Josh Harris talks to like 15 minutes twice a week. And that's it. And they just. He basically delegates because he's got a million things going on. The cons are like that. The crafts are not like that. The crafts are in your life. You take that. Pat's job, you've got to deal with them. Jonathan's going to call. Robert wants to go. Like, he's just going to be around and wants to know, shit, I'll tell you.

[Cousin Sal]

It's a job that is not currently vacant, but a couple coaches ago where every Monday morning the owner would come in and the head coach had to justify, like, three different, you know, play call decisions to the owner. That's. That's hell. You don't want to. You don't want to go through that. That's not the cons. They don't do that. Josh Harrison do that. Stan Kroenke doesn't do that. Like, you have to figure that stuff out. But the GM being bulky there, now, that would be a red flag. Just because I don't know the guy and I'm. I've been very picky and very selective. The jets job is actually intriguing because it's a blank slate right now. So if you're one of those guys, you're like, all right, well, maybe I. If I was saying with Vrabel, Vrabel can come in and be like, I want to bring in Ryan Cowden. My friend who works for the Giants, used to be at the Titans. I want him to be the GM with me. If you take both of us, then I'll consider it. Like, I think Vrabel could do that. But it sounds like he's going to New England and it sounds like Elliot Wolf is safe up there.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, we'll see. With the, with the balky piece, Ben Johnson should just tell shot Khan. You realize that when Harbaugh left, he hired Jim Tomsula. Same guy. Same. By the way, your team's way worse now. Maybe. Maybe there's something here with balky. I. I wouldn't say the track record's great.

[Cousin Sal]

I want to give you two more names because I know they're. They're floating around.

[Rob Harvilla]

For GM?

[Cousin Sal]

No, for head coach. Does Mike McCarthy, as a free agent, he can't interview with anyone until at least January 14th. And they already denied his ability to interview with the Bears, but they can't do that after January 14th, when his contract's up. Does Mike McCarthy, a CEO leader, a man and 12 wins all these years, Super bowl, but also Mike McCarthy. Does that interest you at all? Bill, if you're a team looking for stability, yes.

[Rob Harvilla]

If my team sucks and I'm like the Raiders and I just want some sort of professional franchise again, if I'm trying to win the title, maybe not as excited. What about you, Ceriti?

[Ceruti]

If you're the Raiders, you're going to be terrible regardless. At least take a swing on somebody who has upside. Like, I know what Mike McCarthy is. I. Mike McCarthy went to the Cowboys press conference and basically said he didn't do any homework on the team and didn't, like, this is not a guy. With all due respect, like, if I'm the Raiders, I'd hire deion over McCarthy because at least, like, you're kind of entertaining and people are talking about you, and maybe his son goes there and maybe it works out with Mike McCarthy. What are you getting?

[Cousin Sal]

Who has more leverage in that situation? If it's January 5th, they don't come to a deal. Jerry and the Cowboys or Mike McCarthy, who might have options to go elsewhere.

[Rob Harvilla]

Because I think McCarthy, there's like, seven jobs open.

[Cousin Sal]

I think you're right. I think you're right.

[Rob Harvilla]

One of them, like, at least that. That's one of those where it's like, well, at least he won't drive the car into a tree, you know, like Dion. I have no idea if that guy would be. It'll be really fun. I hope he comes into the league. Just from. From a content standpoint, it'll be awesome. But I don't know.

[Ceruti]

In two years, you're in the same spot, and two, like, like, the Raiders are going nowhere. So what's two years? If it doesn't work out in two years, you're probably at the same spot you are now.

[Cousin Sal]

What about if you're the jets who just went through this tumultuous thing and you're like, does Mike McCarthy interviewed for the jets back in 19, I believe, and he was, like, just fired from Green Bay and no one in New York wanted him and it didn't happen. But, like, I don't know. I thought the Dallas era of McCarthy is, like, 12 wins, 12 wins. Lost his quarterback didn't win 12 games. Like, I don't know, maybe the team.

[Rob Harvilla]

Kept playing hard for him. This surprised. The one appeal with the jets is if they hired McCarthy. That's a final fu to Aaron Rodgers.

[Cousin Sal]

There it is.

[Rob Harvilla]

Pack up your locker, buddy.

[Cousin Sal]

That's it.

[Peter Schrager]

This is.

[Rob Harvilla]

This is a wrap. Does Rogers play next year, by the way?

[Cousin Sal]

It sounds like it's over. You know, it sounds like it's over. I didn't speak to him. We have A relationship, but he wouldn't tell me. But like it just the way he's talking. And he gave that those quotes day before the game. And then, you know, the Pam Oliver said like, I love you and gave her a big hug. Like it felt like this is like my goodbyes. Like they'd have to be a perfect. I don't know if it exists. What do you mean?

[Rob Harvilla]

You don't think I say no.

[Cousin Sal]

He's got too much competitive spirit to end it that way.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think he's going to want to try to latch on to a really good team where he could just steer the car. What do you think?

[Ceruti]

Sariti, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers in Vegas?

[Rob Harvilla]

Definitely.

[Cousin Sal]

With Tom Brady as the owner.

[Rob Harvilla]

Dennis, if you showed, if you showed Aaron Rodgers like 10 minutes of, of Brock Bauer's tape might rejuvenate him. The guy's freaking. An absolute animal.

[Cousin Sal]

Could live in Vegas. Nice living. No taxes. It could be. All right.

[Rob Harvilla]

I think the worst job is the Giants job. Of all the jobs. But it's in general. Because they ball took it back. No, I just, I thought that one was going to be open up and maybe they hired or brought day ball back because it's like, who the fuck would want this job? Like, we have no quarterback. We suck every year. Our cap space is kind of screwed. Do you want to be our coach? No, thanks. So they're better off just bringing them back.

[Cousin Sal]

Can I give you another name that Glazer mentioned on Sunday? But this has been bubbling a little bit. So Mike McDaniel got a big contract extension this year and he was hired the same year as Kevin O'Connell. The Vikings opted not to give Kevin O'Connell their extension before the season, meaning next year is the final year of his contract. So they can do it whenever. But there hasn't been an extension done. So Glazer threw out there. He's entering the final year of his contract and I don't think the Vikings after this season and he's going to be coach of the year would be willing to do a trade for, for just a normal trade.

[Rob Harvilla]

Why would they ever get rid of Kevin O'Connell?

[Cousin Sal]

I don't think they will. I think all that stuff that's out there, like they're going to step up, they're going to pay him. But if you're a team, do you offer three first round picks? Do you offer if you're the Jets?

[Rob Harvilla]

No.

[Cousin Sal]

You don't even go down that road. You don't even entertain it.

[Rob Harvilla]

No.

[Cousin Sal]

Because they wouldn't Entertain it back or it's.

[Rob Harvilla]

Belichick was only worth one first round pick when Kraft. The only great thing Kraft ever did other than keeping the Pats in New England when he traded a first rounder for Belichick. I think a coach is worth one first rounder.

[Cousin Sal]

Okay.

[Rob Harvilla]

I don't know. You disagree, Saruti?

[Cousin Sal]

That's what Sean Payton went for.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

This reminds me a couple years ago. It's actually many years ago now. Remember, we were having the, like, would you rather start your franchise with Brad Stevens or Giannis?

[Rob Harvilla]

Right.

[Ceruti]

And we were. People were actually like, oh, man, Brad Stevens. You know, culture, like, you never know.

[Rob Harvilla]

Wasn't quite honest yet at that point. It was a good argument, though.

[Ceruti]

I love. I love koc, but that's. That's. That's insane.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Harvilla]

One pick. Would you trade? What do the jets have? Like, I do. One pick, 10th pick.

[Cousin Sal]

Jets have the seventh pick in the draft.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, that's.

[Ceruti]

That seems intense.

[Cousin Sal]

It's a lot. Real quick.

[Ceruti]

Schrager.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

The Rex Ryan thing, is that.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

Is that a thing?

[Cousin Sal]

I'll tell you, it happened today. It happened. So Rex flew down to Palm beach and he and Woody and Tannenbaum have, like, a really strong bond. And Rex comes in there and he basically is like, guys, I don't know if you're going to give me this job. There is no person on this earth who wants to be the head coach of the New York jets more than I do. There is no person that wants to turn this organization around more than I do. I have been involved with the game on espn. I watch it all. Like, I want to be the New York jets head coach. I don't want to be the Saints coach. I don't want to be the Dolphins coach. I want to be the jets head coach. And I think it was refreshing for them to hear somebody, like, not just come in and be like, all right, yeah, no, I want to be a head coach of an NFL team and here's my credentials. Like, Rex went about it a totally different way, and you will not find someone more passionate in that interview. Will he get the job? No, I don't think he's going to get the job, but I do think it was worthwhile for him to go down there. And I think they enjoyed the meeting at the very least, because they can't meet with anyone else in person anyway. But it wasn't a waste of their time, and Rex gave him a little bit of fire today. And I think they appreciated what Rex had to say because there's no one else who's going to come in there and say and honestly mean it with the passion that Rex does. Like, I don't want to be the coach of the Patriots. I don't want to be the coach of the Lions. I want to be the coach of the jets and I want to.

[Rob Harvilla]

Guys, maybe they should schedule more interviews with people who have no chance of being an NFL coach but really want to coach the Jets. Like, are there other people? Are there actors? Could Larry David go in there and.

[Cousin Sal]

Say Larry David, Ralph Macchio. They've got a nice little group of.

[Ceruti]

Chalamet's had a good run here. Maybe, you know, you get him.

[Rob Harvilla]

Yeah, could do it. That'd be great.

[Cousin Sal]

Yeah, you could do it. That's it. What do we. When are we getting him on the pod bill? Like, what's the. Like that has to be happening, is it not?

[Rob Harvilla]

Apparently he's overseas and hopefully we will get him later this month. There's no one doesn't come. I'm gonna be super upset.

[Cousin Sal]

Seriously. There's no one who. I mean, I think he's following like.

[Rob Harvilla]

Three people and just come on the pod show.

[Ceruti]

Come on.

[Rob Harvilla]

All right, thanks, Saruti. I got one more thing for Schrager.

[Cousin Sal]

Is it about your Netflix cameo last night or not?

[Rob Harvilla]

No, no, no. I thought you handled that great, dude. Thank you.

[Cousin Sal]

What do you want us to do?

[Rob Harvilla]

Everyone in my life felt I handled it perfectly. Very impressed. Shregs, good to see you. Thanks.

[Cousin Sal]

You're the man, dude. Thank you.

[Rob Harvilla]

All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to cousin Sal, thanks to Saruti and Kyle and Gahao for producing. As always, I'm going to be back probably with a two parter on Thursday. At least a one parter. Hopefully a two parter. Assuming that everything goes well in Southern California on Tuesday and on Wednesday. I'm trying to be super optimistic. So next time you see me Thursday and then maybe rewatchables on Wednesday too. If we can do that mailbag podcast on Wednesday that we're hoping for. So let's hope for some good weather, some decent weather, some non windy weather in the next two days and hopefully when you hear my voice on Thursday, things are a little bit better and we're heading forward here in Southern California. Stay safe everybody. See you later in the week. I don't have a few years with Him. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler, visit rg-help.com call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplianma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run. Before the deadline, GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year. By the way, just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn with unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying. In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next All Star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next Great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons Once again, LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.