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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Two Crazy Play-In Games, and 2026 NBA Awards Picks With Kirk Goldsberry and Joe House
02:13:10
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. With playoffs around the corner, now's a good time to create a tournament of your own. Compete to see who can predict the best playoff series or put your own basketball skills to the test. And the prize? A crisp Michelob Ultra Plus. They're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, prizes and more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtsite 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to US Residence 21 Plus. Begins on October 1, 2025. Ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules@michelobaltra.com courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. The Bill Simmons Podcast, brought to you by fanduel. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast network, where I put up a new rewatch. On Monday, we did Basic Instinct. It was the live show we did in San Francisco. It was awesome. Had a great time. Even at Craig on stage, we had five of us. As you know, I've always complained about five man studio shows. Five man live podcast kind of worked. Craig picked his spots. We were all passing the ball around. Really, really good show. Go check it out next week, Monday. You have six days to watch this on Netflix. We're doing Kindergarten Cop, an Arnold Schwarzenegger classic. Oh yeah, Kindergarten Cop coming next Monday. Speaking of podcasts, we released the first two episodes of Legata, a rare narrative podcast for the ringer. We don't do a lot of these. When we do them, we go all in. And this is an amazing story. I don't even know how to describe it, but I'll just say this. If you like Scarface and in Miami vice from the 80s, if you like Cocaine Driven, what the F is gonna happen next kind of plots. This is the one for you. Just think like if me and Chris Ryan had created a narrative podcast from scratch, we probably would have created this. Even though we didn't create this, somebody else did. But Legata, just go check it out. It's really, really something. Please listen to it. It's really, really good. I was involved in this one behind the scenes and I'm really proud of it. So, so Legata, speaking of things I'm proud of, I got Joe House to stay up late on the east coast with Kirk Goldsberry down in Texas to react off the two playing games. Charlotte, Miami and Portland Phoenix. And then House left and we go in a time machine. We go backwards in time. Yeah, backwards in time to earlier this afternoon when Kurt Goldsberry and I did our awards pick, including my MVP which is at the tail end. So if you care about who I pick for MVP, something I changed my mind on 430 times over the weekend. That is at the tail end of the podcast. Saved it for last like a big fat dessert. So that is coming up next. We're gonna take a break and then bring in Pearl Jam and then Kirk and House. Late night Tuesday after two playing games. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA post season is here and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. Fanduel the best place to bet the teams players and plays during their playoff run. Build a same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after a tip off. Don't forget with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel sportsbook app now and play your game 21 plus select states are 18, DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game impromptu 1-800- gambler, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat it's all right. We're recording this part of the podcast at 9:53pm it is presented by New Era. Thanks to them, Kurt Goldsberry is here. He's also coming up later because we did all NBA Joe House staying up super late on the east Coast. I've never been prouder of you. What did you have like an Arby's roast beef? What happened?
- [04:31]
B
Oh no, no no. I don't need that. I had a little bit of coffee but I live on the future fuel of Denny Abdia. You guys did your all NBA. I can't wait to hear it. I'm here.
- [04:43]
A
Oh wait house for my guy.
- [04:45]
B
Look, I'm in my hat right here. We're putting that man's number in the rafters. The best Washington player of the last 15 years. Give that man his flowers.
- [04:54]
A
I'll tell you this much, we aren't allowed to do this, but I'm going to do it. We argued about the last third team spot in all NBA much later in the podcast and I said I was going to give it to Scotty Barnes and that I couldn't quite get get there with Denny cause he hadn't, you know, he barely played enough games all this stuff. But after watching tonight Kirk, I'm just going to change my vote.
- [05:15]
C
Dude, the NBA is Doing this to us or for us, I'm not sure. But they've given us another set of games to, to reevaluate our choices. Yeah, rethink things. Traditionally our votes would have been due by now. Instead we're watching Con caniple. We'll get to there. But yeah, Denny obviously playing one of the the year for him and making us rethink where he should be in these awards.
- [05:40]
A
Unbelievable. He was awesome. It seemed like at various points House, the game was over headed for the Blazers. They were just going to go up by 20. Then it seemed like the game was over with the Suns that they just bully balled Portland. Portland couldn't hit a shot and I was watch, I was, I love Portland tonight. I was really confused because I've been watching Portland the last couple months and it was the first time I thought they looked a little spooked and it was kind of like, you know, once they started really like hey Denny, you're not driving to the basket anymore. We're throwing five bodies in front of you. Then it was like, okay, who's stepping up? Who's going to step up on this Portland team? It turned out to be the much maligned Jeremy Grant. A staple of our worst contracts drafts with big W every year hit a couple big threes and then Abdia took over late. But how, how did you let this guy go? I still don't understand.
- [06:33]
B
Well, I mean I'm not going to go through the full recitation of what was going on. It's a true story that his ascendance, timeline wise didn't line up with the, the tank effort. So I understand they could have got more. That's the only quibble. But we're not going to talk about Washington. The most important thing, setting aside the hyperbole, is that for a lot of these guys this is the most important game they've ever played in their entire basketball lives. Like I defy you to find another game for Denny Abdia that was more important for him than this game, this moment, this stage, this franchise, his identity in this franchise, his rise right now. And the same is true of some of those guys in Charlotte. Tell me a game that LaMelo Balls played in his entire basketball life, his whole basketball life, that was more important than tonight's game.
- [07:29]
A
Right.
- [07:30]
B
And you know, I, I says it's a fair comparison to make. You had Denny with an incredibly efficient 15 of 22 for 41 points. 12 and 7. And you know we'll get to Lamelo in, in due time.
- [07:44]
A
Yeah, yeah. He ended and get a couple calls too. Portland played all the hits. Kirk, they threw scoot out there. Little hope with the scoot stuck there for a second. We saw some tiebo. We saw a little Robert Williams clinging center thing. I mean big picture before we talk about the game. Now we have San Antonio versus Portland and if I'm San Antonio, I'm beating probably either of those teams pretty handily and I'm sure they're huge favorites, but I would have much rather played Phoenix. Portland at least has two big centers to put on. Wemby, they have a guy who's really comfortable and really good at getting to the basket. And Denny, although trying to get to the basket against Wembley will be interesting. Drew Holiday has been there before. I don't think it's a sweep is my point. I think Portland will always make them work a little bit. Right?
- [08:38]
C
Yeah. I'm happy for the Portland fans to have some playoff games up there that'll be cool. But yeah, this is the 23rd ranked offense since the all Star break, but it's the third ranked defense. They're going to be tough to score on. And if the one of the things I'm worried about as a Spurs guy is the ability for these young guards to shoot their threes, we've both been really positive about them as the season's gone on about getting better. But the playoffs have a. A way of making teams cool off. We saw that with the Charlotte game tonight too. So yeah, I think that Portland defense is really, really playoff ready. And then like we saw tonight, Denny can go out there and win a game like 41 and 12. Are you kidding me?
- [09:17]
A
Yeah. The Port Portland. I thought Green was. How many. Green took 29 shots. House. Yeah.
- [09:25]
B
What's.
- [09:26]
A
What's the right number for Jalen Green? Field goal attempts in a playing game, I'm going to say about 17, I don't know, 15 to 17.
- [09:35]
B
What really kind of revealed itself is the, this overachieving Suns team. They just, they have a talent deficit and that's not a knock. Like this was supposed to be kind of a transition rebuilding year to wash out the horrendous taste that was left in their mouths from what they tried last year. And it turned out that like chemistry matters. The book of basketball. The secret that I learned from the book of basketball is that chemistry matters.
- [10:01]
A
Yeah.
- [10:02]
B
And lo and behold here we just watched it. But you know, they couldn't at the end of the day outscore Portland because Portland had had one guy that was unstoppable.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah. And you know, they, they play Gillespie less because they're playing those three guards together. I thought Brooks was pretty awesome in this game, but Phoenix had a couple. Hey, we've been in games like this before, guys who, who felt like it. And from the Portland side, it was really just Drew Holiday was the only guy who seemed like, really comfortable in the game. But it's a weird Phoenix team. And if I'm Golden State, maybe less the Clippers side of the Clippers, game to game, who knows? But if I'm Golden State, I'm like, look, if we can get by this goofy Clippers team tomorrow night somehow, Kirk. Yeah, we could be Phoenix too, right? We could get in the dance. We have Steph. Al Horford's coming back. Who knows? I mean, we know, we know what's going to happen.
- [11:04]
B
You're dying to get stuff in there so bad. They suck. Watch that team. They suck.
- [11:10]
A
Get a 37 win team in the playoffs, House. That's what we need.
- [11:15]
C
Steph Curry in the playoffs is something we all want. I would say whoever WINS that, that 9:10 game in the west should feel pretty good about their opponent in Phoenix. That's a team that. I thought the wrong guy took 29 shots. I would rather have been Devin Booker. I'm fine with Jalen Green taking 29 shots. Shots. In a world where Devin Booker is hurt, but in a world where Devin Booker is fine, I wanted him to take 29 shots.
- [11:42]
A
House, house. Did you see how many he took? 10.
- [11:45]
B
Devin Booker there. You. Well, no, no, Booker ended up 17.
- [11:50]
A
I'm sorry, Dylan Brooks had 10. 17.
- [11:53]
B
That's the thing, right? Take nine of Jalen Green shots and let's have Dylan, Dylan Brooks take him. Dylan Brooks, who just goes wherever he goes. It's a way he's a winner. His team always has a positive defensive rating. Just delivers wins anywhere that he goes. Let that man take some shots. He's been in big games.
- [12:12]
A
He's also a very hard guy to officiate. And so he ends up fouling out in the game. I think you could argue he could have fouled out in every quarter.
- [12:21]
B
We had 14 fouls. It was tremendous.
- [12:24]
A
He's doing that thing on offense too, where he's just like bulldozing people with his shoulder and they're just like, well, we didn't call that in the first quarter. I guess we have to let that keep going. Now, Phoenix was. They set these, these moving picks just constantly that they are really good at getting away with. There's a couple of teams in the league who are great at that. Kirk, did you feel like Phoenix blew this game or Portland won it if you had to pick one of those two sides?
- [12:51]
C
Well, the home team. The home team with more of the vets, the more of the playoff experience. Guys, again, I would argue coming into this game, with all due respect to Denny, Devin Booker has been to the finals. They have the home court, they have that guy. They should have won it. And then when Portland went cold, Bill, I was already writing notes like this offense just wasn't good enough down the stretch. If Denny doesn't have it going, nobody else could do anything. So there was a moment early in the fourth quarter I was like, Phoenix is going to walk away with this thing. We're going to start the podcast early.
- [13:24]
B
Yeah.
- [13:25]
C
And then Jeremy Grant hits those threes and then Denny gets going, obviously fouls. Dylan out with that and one. And here we go. So, yeah, I feel like Phoenix blew this chance to just get the seven seed tonight.
- [13:38]
A
House, which, which side are you on? I'm on the. Portland took the game, like to come back from eight to 10 with four or five minutes left and take the game with some big threes, some big drives to the basket, some really good defense. I thought Kamara on Booker was awesome down the stretch. They were doing everything they could to try to switch him off, but I, I felt like Portland took the game. So, House, you're the tiebreaker. What do you say?
- [14:06]
B
I agree with the idea that, that Portland took the game and, and they did hit that stretch in the third quarter when Kirk was taking his very salient notes about the ineffectiveness of their offense through 8, 8 minutes and 30 seconds in the fourth quarter. They had 22 points in the entire second half. Yeah, 18 through, you know, the entire third quarter and then 4 points in the fourth. But when Denny came back into the game right around that 8 minute mark, 8, 15 minute mark, he came in, immediately, got an and one, got the technical on Dylan Brooks and that, that really started tipping things.
- [14:45]
A
This never works. You know what? Refs don't like this when they get the steel clap for five straight seconds. That's going to get a technical. You go through it.
- [14:56]
B
It's 22 minutes for Mark Williams with for four points and four rebounds.
- [15:00]
A
I honestly don't remember him playing right. Was he out there?
- [15:03]
B
It's 24 minutes for Royce O' Neal with seven points. It's 23 minutes for Oso with three points. Like this is the problem for Phoenix. They have a talent deficit and that's Not a knock on them. It's just who they are. Jordan Goodwin. 29 minutes. Like. Okay.
- [15:21]
C
Okay.
- [15:21]
B
Good. Good job.
- [15:23]
A
Yeah. Portland's pretty good, man. There'll be a Frisky seven. So do we call them a seven seed? What's the rule here? I guess they're a seven seed now. The rule.
- [15:35]
B
They're the seventh seed.
- [15:36]
C
They're the seventh seed, Bill.
- [15:37]
A
They're the eight seed playing in the two seven matchup. Or are they just now the seven seed?
- [15:42]
C
They are now the seven seed in their left town.
- [15:44]
A
Did the Spock score happen?
- [15:46]
B
They earned it.
- [15:47]
A
Does this see. Does the Spock score exist? Does Denny Abdias. Does his numbers go up? What happens?
- [15:52]
C
Yeah, I forget. Is this a playoff game?
- [15:53]
A
No, they just put it over on the side, like an area area. What's the area? The alien area. Area 51. Yeah, it's in there. Or area 51. Area 52.
- [16:08]
B
Call it area 41 for Denny.
- [16:10]
C
There you go.
- [16:11]
A
I. There was, like, two moments in this game where I was, like, fucking scared, man. It's going to happen tonight. It's happening tonight. Here we go. And it just did not happen. All right. We talked about that game enough. Charlotte, Miami. It wasn't the game of the year. It was the drunk game of the year. This game was drunk. Amazon got drunk. Amazon started doing shots in the fourth quarter and glitched out in OT when it was 123 to 120. And Charlotte had the ball with 30 seconds left. And we had a Sopranos moment. And it just goes away. This game was full of unbelievable shots. Massive, massive, massive brain farts. And at the center of all of it was Lamelo Ball, who inexplicably injured Bam Adebayo and might be suspended for Friday. Like, let's keep an eye on that. He missed 14 threes, Kirk.
- [17:09]
C
Oh, my God.
- [17:10]
A
That's gotta be at least a playing record. I don't know if it's an NBA record, but it's at least a playing record. There's multiple times where they had a lead, especially in OT. They're up 5 with, like, two and a half minutes left. And they're running basically the four corners and then doing a grenade shot with a second left. I thought Lamelo just had some horrific moments in this game. Like, horrific moments that make you wonder, is this guy just never getting it ever? Like, what is up with the decision making? And then what happens after he throws the ball away to lose the lead on a foul of Tyler Herro, which he commits for three free Throws. They come out of a timeout, and he makes an awesome driving layup to win the game. House. He was the player of the game and the least valuable player in the game all in the same game.
- [17:59]
B
Well, I mean, it's hard to be fair with this game because of bam going out. So, like, my inclination is to give Miami flowers for just fighting their asses off all the way through. I. It's really befuddling. I'd love to get inside that locker room and get some intel on when Tyler Herro came back. Why couldn't Tyler Herro and Norm Powell be on the basketball floor together at the time?
- [18:29]
A
Same.
- [18:29]
B
Same time. They couldn't. It was one of the worst defensive combinations over the last, you know, stretch of games. And Miami's defensive rating suffered mightily because of those two guys being on the floor at the same time. I'd love to understand what was going on, but.
- [18:44]
A
Well, not like, nor so. Norm played 19 minutes tonight, and the entire second half had a look on his face like, I feel like I've lost $30 million in fridge. See, just tonight. This sucks. I'm really bad. What's happening? I think I got to call my agent. Yeah, it was bad because the first
- [19:02]
B
half of the season for Miami, he was awesome. It was like, how could. How could the Clippers possibly have let him walk for so little?
- [19:09]
A
Kirk, we might have to do it. Fuck it.
- [19:11]
B
Yeah.
- [19:12]
A
Eric's poster. Are we sure he's good? Oh, no.
- [19:15]
C
I mean, to. To your first point, Bill. You nailed it. And Spo was fired up after the game about the. The play, which was just a weird play. I mean, it almost looked like Lamelo hit his head. He just grabbing. But that was the moment. That's the moment we'll remember from this game. And I hate that I'm saying that. But as crazy as the finish was, like, that's Miami's best player. He's out. That sucked. And then you tell me that the number one and two three point shooters this whole season are Con Knipple and Lamelo Ball. Not for Charlotte. For the whole NBA. And these guys combined to go 2 for 22. And you're telling me that Charlotte still is going to win that game? That's crazy.
- [19:53]
A
Con got benched. Unless he's hurt. But they didn't say he was hurt. It was just a flat out, you don't have it tonight. You're 20 years old. The lights were a little bright.
- [20:03]
C
Have a seat and diabate, too. So, like I look at Charles Lee is like the MVP of this game. So con canipple is minus 20 in 34 minutes. Diabate is minus 17 in 36 minutes. Lamello ball plus 15 in 40 minutes. That means Charlotte's minus 14 in the 13 minutes he sat. Yeah, I think Charles Lee finishing with Bridges. Brandon Miller, Lamelo Ball. And Kobe White obviously.
- [20:31]
A
And Grant Williams, he went. Went a little small with G Dub as the fifth guy.
- [20:35]
C
Can I give you guys my theme of the night?
- [20:37]
A
Yeah.
- [20:39]
C
Bad teams give away good players too soon. Kobe White, Davion Mitchell, Denny Advia were all on different teams a few years ago. They gave up on these dudes. They were the stars tonight. Right? Davion Mitchell played incredible. He played 48 minutes. That's one of the reasons Norman Powell didn't see the floor. Davion was playing electric basketball on both ends of the court. Obviously Kobe White comes over from Chicago. Zach Lowe has the great bit. Bill. Chicago and Sacramento should never be allowed to trade again. Well, we benefited from their trades again tonight watching those guys play, so. And then obviously Denny in the first game. But look, Kobe White was fucking awesome, man. And I was electric watching him. And I know Lamello made the play that sealed the game, but Kobe hit some big boy shots down the stretch for Charlotte to save their season.
- [21:33]
A
That was the trade of the year. They gave him some Amazon prime award. He's some. Some necklace with the plays on it. They. Yeah, they should have given him an apology for the stream going out with a.
- [21:46]
B
Given us an apology because there was a goddamn basketball game being played in fucking Phoenix at the same time and they're doing necklace giving. There's a fucking basketball game that's being played. Points are being scored in Phoenix, Arizona.
- [21:59]
A
I couldn't believe that either. The other thing with Amazon, the entire year, the audio has been a split second ahead of the video. And half of the Amazon games we've watched, they can send the three pointers halfway toward the basket. It's like bang. It's good. You hear the crowd. It's like the ball hasn't even got in yet. How have we not figured this out? You guys have eight kajillion dollars.
- [22:19]
C
They can send a tech bro to the moon, but they can't fucking broadcast a basketball game without technical difficulties. I haven't seen a technical difficulty slide on a basketball game since I was 12 years old, bro. And this is Amazon. Come on, guys.
- [22:37]
A
And they have the play in. You know, they've done a good job with the, with the studio show. I. They've rejuvenated Stan Van Gundy, for me, I did not like him as an announcer in the three man boost on tnt. And I would get bummed out if he was doing a Celtic game like it was at that level of me. I think he's been outstanding this season in the two man with Ian Eagle. I thought he did a great job today laying out all the storylines, what was happening, having a feel for even like the knipple thing, you know, I think at one point he said something like, I don't how long are you going to stay with him? Which is like he's the third best player on the team. And as somebody that's watched way too many Hornets games this year, he started out slow like that in games and then he hits one. It's a lot like Clay. He hits one three and he's fine. It's just he never hit the three and you could see him starting to lose the confidence. But Kobe White, to Kirk's point, saved it. I have no idea how he wasn't worth a first round pick. I don't know what happened. I don't know where the rest of the league was. He was an expiring contract making like, I don't know, $14 million or something. He goes go. Ends up going back home to Charlotte where he's from. He went to college there, he's going to resign there. And this team, they're a big guy away house. You could feel it today. Like Diabate, who's been good in some games. Other games he looks like he did tonight and they're just missing that one. It can't be Grant Williams. It's got to be somebody better.
- [24:04]
B
Yeah. And we kind of had that appraisal at the beginning of the season. One of our rare big W's was Charlotte. Our forecast for Charlotte this season was some success. We thought con was going to be helpful. And the big question mark was what are they going to do at the big position. I was impressed. I will say, you know, you're looking for guys that under the bright lights, we just gave Kobe White the flowers that he deserves. Now to me, the Kobe White addition to that team, right guy, right situation, right price, right place. Everything about it is situational for him, that success. But you look at at what Miles Bridges did and you look at what Brandon Miller did. Those three guys, they combined, they were 15 for 28 from three that that freaking Charlotte team shot 56 goddamn three pointers. And those guys really saved their ass. And every time Bridges or Miller or Kobe White touched the ball, I was like those are the adults in the room. And that's really, to me more than anything, a testament to Brandon Miller. He's the youngest guy in that group and he's the guy developmentally who needs to be, you know, carrying the water there. I don't want to talk about lamelo ball. I really, I don't. There's no kind words that are going to come out of my mouth. 31 effing attempts. 31 and 12 for 31, 2 for 16 from 3. And a lot of it was clown ball.
- [25:34]
A
He's getting.
- [25:35]
B
It's a clown car full of lamelo balls. Look at the clown getting out of the left side. Oh, it's lamello. Look at the clown climbing out of the trunk. Oh, it's lamelo. Look at the clown jumping through the front. Oh, that's lamelo. Look at the three point attempt from just inside the logo. That's the lamental clown climbing out of the right side of the car. What the fuck is going on?
- [25:56]
A
He took like a 35 footer at one point. It's frustrating because he's so talented and you're the leader of the team. You're the point guard. They don't have bam. He's out in the second half. And I felt like anytime he wanted, it just felt like he could get to. Into the paint or get to the rim. Like he's. They weren't staying in front of him. And Kirk, he was just settling for These step back 28 footers when none of his threes were going. And it's like go to the rim. The one thing Miami does not want you to do is to go to the basket. And every time he was one big reason he didn't.
- [26:29]
C
Dude, there was one big reason he didn't. That was Khalil Ware, dude, who was playing awesome basketball. He had five block shots. Played 42 minutes without Bam out there. He had some. One of those blocks he had where he caught the ball was a clear goaltend. The refs missed. I was. I was pretty shocked they missed it. But yeah, dude, I. I don't know whether to be impressed by the two of 16. The fact that he kept shooting those threes when he obviously didn't have it and then when he needed to drive to the basket, it's almost more frustrating. Made the game winning drive. Like you could have done that like Denny did down the stretch of this other game.
- [27:06]
A
But that's a lack of experience though. And that's what like right. The older players who, who know who have Been in these situations. Like, to me a good example is Jaylen Brown and the Celtics. Like in a game like that, he just would have started going in the rim, get to the basket. Oh, where is your last center? I'm just going to start attacking him and making him challenge me and try. They just, they didn't have the wherewithal to do some of that smart playoff team stuff because none of those fucking guys have been in a playoff game. Grant Williams was the only one stole it, dude.
- [27:35]
C
Tyler Harrow almost stole it. Reggie Miller style down the stretch with one of the great sequences and. But yeah, doesn't it feel like both of the inexperienced teams, like when I started seeing Harrow get going at the end and Spo on the sideline and you know, Andrew Wiggins, who's won an NBA championship, Bill, I started to feel like, okay, Miami's just going to win this game.
- [27:57]
A
This is an infrastructure DNA game. I was furious. I just want them to go away too.
- [28:02]
C
I thought Phoenix had that advantage in the other game and we saw both sort of young, weird teams figure it out at the last second and get over the hump. But yeah, for Charlotte, man, they got a lot of learning to do. That pass that Lamelo threw. Oh man, it, it, it could have ended their season in the same way that the Duke turnover, right? Who, who was that? Who shot guys?
- [28:27]
A
Kaden Boozer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [28:29]
C
The Kaden Boozer turnover ended that season. It was very reminiscent of a player under pressure who hadn't been there before just making a boneh.
- [28:37]
A
Well, we had House, we had three awards or LMBA spots that might have swung tonight. Cause there might have been somebody who was like multiple people. Like I don't know who to pick between flag and con. Con stunk tonight. Screw it. I'm gonna take flag.
- [28:53]
B
That's diabolical. I really.
- [28:56]
A
I think Haquez for sixth man of the year, which we do this later in the show. And Kirk has Keldon Johnson, spoiler alert. And I have Haquez and now Haquez, who I didn't think was very good in the game and then had the biggest defensive fuck up at the end.
- [29:11]
C
He didn't.
- [29:12]
A
He just let me go by him. I don't know what he was doing.
- [29:15]
B
He wasn't playing six man. He was being playing as a starter because Bam wasn't in the goddamn lineup. I mean, this is the thing that I'm. I want to criticize some of the end of the game stuff for, for Miami. I mean, Kirk was talking about Tyler Hero. Well, I didn't love a lot of it. It felt like the same hero ball that we saw really at the end of games last year as well, where this Miami team goes into now again, no bam. So it's not really fair to criticize, but they get. They turn one dimensional. I.
- [29:47]
A
No, you know what's fair to criticize? You know what's fair to criticize. So they tie the. Charlotte ties it on the crazy Kobe way three. We had two crazy threes at the end of regulation. OT1 from Hero and OT1 from Kobe White. But they tie it. Timeout. Miami has 13 seconds to set up a play. I think Grant Williams was the center for Charlotte. Kirk.
- [30:12]
C
Yeah.
- [30:13]
A
So what does Miami get? Hey, let's try to get a 27 footer from. From Hero at the end of the. At the end of the. Like, how is that your play?
- [30:21]
C
That's a bad possession. Yeah.
- [30:22]
A
Get to the basket. Go to the basket. There's 10 seconds left.
- [30:27]
B
Make one pass. Make. Every fucking set of eyes on the basketball court is looking at the guy with the ball. Nobody's eyes have to shift one time because the guy with the ball dribbles the mother effing ball the whole time. I just can't. It makes me lose my shit.
- [30:43]
C
Well, here.
- [30:44]
A
Here's the thing. I don't feel bad for Miami because they were the 10 seed. I didn't think they were a playoff team. And they were who we thought they were in a lot of ways. With that said, the bam thing. Stunning. So, House, we have a San Antonio Portland line. Would you like to guess
- [31:03]
B
for the series?
- [31:04]
A
Yeah.
- [31:04]
B
Oh, God. San Antonio's -490.
- [31:10]
A
Oh, no. -1350.
- [31:12]
C
Oh, that's too much. Way too much.
- [31:15]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [31:16]
A
What would you like to. What do you think a Spurs sweep is?
- [31:21]
B
Oh, I mean, that's preposterous. The. The.
- [31:24]
A
You don't want to guess the spurs sleep sweep odds?
- [31:29]
B
I don't. I don't want to guess. I can't.
- [31:33]
A
13:52 to 1 odds for the sweep. Kirk.
- [31:36]
C
Yeah. That's crazy.
- [31:38]
A
Spurs win 4 to 1 is plus 190 on FanDuel.
- [31:43]
B
I'm betting that the. Here, the problem with 1350 is the implied concept there is that Wemby will play all the games. And that's. Right, that. That doesn't really line up with our recent experience. I would like for him to play all the games. I want him to be healthy for all the games. It may not make sense for him to play all the games. He may yet still need Some rest.
- [32:10]
A
So I assume he's playing other games. You know who's going to be playing against him though? Donovan Clingan and Robert the Truth Williams,
- [32:19]
B
the guys who combined 2 for 12 for 4 points tonight. Those guys.
- [32:23]
A
Clingan's feisty, man. He'll he, he will take this personally.
- [32:28]
B
They definitely have 12 fouls. They definitely have 12 fouls.
- [32:31]
A
I think Zach Lowe is the first person to point this out. Clingan looks exactly like Gunther, the WWE Superstar. He's going to Gunther it up against Wemby. There's going to be some high elbows and some shoves and Clingan's like kind of a badass. Like he's, he's willing to make.
- [32:46]
C
He threw Dylan Brooks to the. He threw Dylan Brooks to the ground. Not many men were brave enough to do that.
- [32:52]
A
Kirk, I have, I have a question that's going to send a chill down your spine. Thought about this today during the Charlotte game. These young, carefree, awesome regular season teams or these stretches built around the young guys. Look how great this is. And then the old guys and inside the NBA come on and be like, I Barkley does that. I don't know. I don't. I want to see it in the playoffs. And we're like, all right, settle down. Their offensive rating was this, blah, blah, blah. And then the playoffs come and the lights are nice and hot, bright and all of a sudden that wide open, that first wide open three didn't go in and then your second one didn't come in. And now like you can see with Con today, he's like rethinking. I made 275 of these and I don't know if I want to shoot this. The spurs have a few guys in that team that the lights might get a little bright right from 24ft. You thinking about that at all?
- [33:52]
C
A hundred percent. I mean These guys are 21, 22, you know, in Dylan Harper's case, 19 or whatever. Like yeah, of course. You just hope that Harrison Barnes and de' Aaron Fox and Julianne Champagne, some of these guys. Harrison Barnes is a medalist and a world champion. Harrison Barnes, Yeah. So he is an NBA champion and a gold. But yeah, there's some vets there. But I think it is fair to say. And I don't think that's going to come up in a Portland series with Denny who by the way has never seen this stuff or you know, Drew Holiday has. I'll give that to him. But yeah, I think both of these teams, Thiago Splitter, is going to be really coaching his first playoff series and so is Mitch Johnson. Yeah, I think you're worried about that if you're a Spurs fan. We haven't seen it. And the other thing I'd say, Bill Samantha, is the rules change. Remember last year, how jarring it was once we got into the postseason? What is the contact, what are the contact allowances anymore? This was a foul for six months. Now it's not a foul anymore. How is that going to, how is that going to affect Wemby? To house his point about his fragility, his durability and just the, this, the inexperience with that, like that kind of physicality that we're going to see here in the next few months.
- [35:05]
A
I can't wait. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are here in the form of the Play In Tournament, which goes on for half a week. You can get better payouts this NBA playing on FanDuel. All FanDuel customers can claim a profit boost every single day of this tournament. Plus you can enter FanDuel's play in Palooza for a chance to win a share of $2 million in bonus bets every day of the Playin tournament. All you have to do is place a live bet using your Play in palooza token. Visit FanDuel.com B.S. play your game with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA 21 select states are 18 DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fandue.com, game prom call 1-800- Gamble or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat Connecticut. All right, listen up. Ralph's King Supers, Harris Teeter, Food for Less, Kroger Many more now on Uber Eats and you get 40% off your order of $30 or more. Maybe you're trying a new recipe and need some last minute ingredients. That's a possibility. Maybe the kids made a mess. You're lower on cleaning supplies than you thought. Whatever you need, you can get it delivered to you in as little as 25 minutes. So order now. In Uber Eats, get 40% off your order of $30 or more with code KROGER 2026 plus Uber One members get $0 delivery fees. I love Uber One. I'm an Uber One member. Orders of $30 or more. Save up to $25. Ends April 30, 2026. See app for details. House Are you ready for the playoffs? You gotten there yet? Mentally.
- [36:45]
B
Oh, I'm there now. I mean, do you have an upset for us yet? Tonight was the night. No, because the first round is not lining up the team that I feel like, you know, that Atlanta could give the Knicks some trouble. That's the only one where I really feel like, you know, I don't think the. Unless there's some miracle happening with Lucas. Visit to. Where did he go? Italy.
- [37:08]
A
The line's kind of doing this. I don't know if you notice the series line. It's. It's going this way a little bit. Lakers now plus 5:30. Her plus 590. I can't see because one of my contacts isn't working. Plus 5:30. Houston now minus 7:50. They used to be minus 900.
- [37:24]
B
I mean, if you.
- [37:25]
A
To me, that's a. The Lakers are a smash spot at that price. So I'm probably end up betting it.
- [37:29]
B
Yeah, I honestly think you're right.
- [37:32]
A
It's. It's what? It's. The playoffs are two and a half weeks. Basically. Round one.
- [37:36]
B
Yeah.
- [37:37]
A
They'll stretch it out even if it's two one after three. And then they could potentially get Luca back for the last couple. And you know, you know, I said this to Zach the other night. There's going to be the 55 free throw game. That's happening. Just pencil that one in. But yeah, if they could. Even if they're down three two heading into game six. But Luka's back. I don't trust that Houston team. No, I know you guys don't trust that Houston team.
- [38:04]
B
No. Not even a little bit.
- [38:06]
A
So then the other weird thing that happened, we had the 910 game before. We had the 78 game in the East. So we have Philly tomorrow and that line has moved. I love Philly. Today Philly was like minus one and a half. Today it's up to minus two and a half. I really like Philly in that game. Warriors, Clippers, just. You might as well bet on two drunk guys having a fight in downtown la. I have no idea what's going to happen in that game, but. Magic Sixers, who do you think. Who do you think Charlotte's rooting for in this game? Kurt Goldsberry.
- [38:39]
C
Oh, Orlando. I don't know if you saw the rumors on the Internet today, but there's turmoil in the Magic locker room. Head coach Jamal Mosley. They're reevaluating his future no matter what. No, I think your beloved Celtics Bill really put a. Put them into a funk heading into these playoffs. I. Without a question, I think it's gotta be Charlotte rooting to see Orlando, who has been a complete mess over these last few weeks. And I just don't know if their offense can keep up with Charlotte on an average Charlotte night. We saw Charlotte with a really below average night tonight, beat a pretty good opponent. So if they just get back to average, I don't know if Orlando will keep up. So I would say the Orlando Magic House.
- [39:27]
B
I don't know. The problem is how schizophrenic the Magic have been. They are the more healthy team for sure. We don't have any confidence whatsoever in Mosley, but the problem is in the. In the bright lights. Maybe those guys all come together. Maybe they're the Nobody believes in US team. They were supposed to win 50 games this season. They grossly underachieved. But like, Desmond Bain doesn't want to look. Go out looking like a. And Paul Paulo, wherever he ends up, whether he's on Orlando or not, he doesn't want to go out looking like. Or Milwaukee.
- [40:04]
A
Sacramento.
- [40:05]
B
Yeah. I mean, I don't know, man. I. I'm in the version of Orlando
- [40:10]
A
we both bet on. There was a Saturday game where Philly played in Charlotte and really kind of bullied them and took it to them. And if I'm Charlotte, I don't want to play them. Yeah, I didn't like that. I didn't like how that game went for them. I thought they were really physical with their guards. I thought they were physical with Khan. I thought they're physical with Lamelo. I just. I didn't like the matchup. I want to play the Magic for all the reasons Kirk mentioned as well. Turmoil in the Magic locker room. There was something this week about a team was anxiously waiting to talk to Jamal Mosley this. This summer. What was that story? Who was the team? I'm blanken. It was one of the teams that need a coach.
- [40:50]
B
It was like the Taipei Tigers.
- [40:53]
C
The. Yeah, the Rio Grande Valley Vipers.
- [40:57]
A
Somebody was excited to talk to. Oh, New Orleans. That's what it was. New Orleans. New Orleans was really interested in talking about.
- [41:03]
B
Is there a difference between the teams we mentioned in New Orleans? Those all sound like the same teams to me.
- [41:09]
A
If you had to pick Warriors Clippers, what would you do? House not to step on ringer gambling show tomorrow.
- [41:15]
B
Take the Clippers.
- [41:18]
A
Kirk,
- [41:20]
C
what's the warriors injury report? We're getting Porzingis and Porzing seems like Orford Curry.
- [41:27]
A
I'm going to this one tomorrow night. The Clippers are interesting because when they play Garland and Kawhi together, they're really good all of the minutes with those two guys on the floor. Really good. Garland's the only guy in the team who can dribble. All you have to do when Garland's done out there is just press and trap whoever just try to get the ball because they'll give it to you. They don't have a backup center. Their swings kind of are hit or miss. The crowd's going to have a ton of warriors fans there. This is the always the biggest issue with Clipper games is you're going to have 5,000 warriors fans there and there's a real energy if Steph gets going. So it's weird. I would either pick the warriors to win or to lose by 20. I don't think there's any in between. I think they either get blown out or they win. I don't think if it's a close game, I think they win it.
- [42:15]
C
Is there any Conspiracy Bill? We don't want the Clippers in the playoffs. Anything like oh, we do want Steph Curry in the playoffs.
- [42:23]
A
That could be a thing, you know.
- [42:24]
C
I'm not Conspiracy Bill. I'm just a guy over here.
- [42:29]
A
House. I'm going to put my Conspiracy Bill do it. Conspiracy Bill did notice we did not see Scott Foster today?
- [42:44]
B
Now wait.
- [42:45]
A
If on the one hand Steph Curry, on the other hand, the team that was embroiled in some sort of weird aspiration, I don't want to call it a scandal, whatever it was for, for a long time.
- [42:59]
B
We'll keep that to your conspiracy hat on. What did we say was the going to be the funniest possible outcome of the lottery when the ping pong balls get dropped? Because if the Clippers lose, then they're in the lottery. But they don't have to pick.
- [43:12]
A
Right? They don't have the pick. No.
- [43:14]
B
Who has the pick?
- [43:15]
A
OKC has the pick.
- [43:16]
C
Yeah, we don't.
- [43:18]
B
That would be the worst. So OKC gets. Yeah, the Clippers win the lottery, but OKC gets the pick.
- [43:25]
A
I forgot to mention there was another outcome in that Portland game because they made the playoffs. They lose their pick, I think to Charlotte. So Charlotte gets a pick in the mid first round. And if you've been following this draft at all, somebody really good is going to fall to the middle of the first round in this NBA draft and it's going to be a point guard and it's going to be like the kid from Alabama who just goes 16, 17 because everybody has a point guard. Nobody needed to Take them. So that picks like not nothing. I think Charlotte was the one that that has it. I'm really excited for tomorrow. Zach poo pooed my love of just seeing Steph Curry playing in any sort of a game that means anything. The minutes limit is weird. The fact that the other game is going to be the 78 game is also kind of weird. We'll see how it goes. House, before we go, you want to give us your MVP pick?
- [44:28]
B
It would be SGA for me. If I got to. If I was lucky enough to have a ballot, I would vote for SGA.
- [44:34]
A
Who would be your number two?
- [44:35]
B
The Joker.
- [44:37]
A
Wemby 3.
- [44:39]
B
Wemby 3? Yeah. Without hesitation or reservation.
- [44:42]
C
Okay.
- [44:44]
A
Who would be your all NBA fifth spot if Luka doesn't qualify and fails his weird appeal? And we have the three guys we just mentioned and Jalen Brown in the fifth spot could be either Mitchell or Brunson or somebody else. Who would you put in there?
- [45:01]
B
I think I would put Mitchell in there because he kind of held that team together until Harden arrived and they made the push that they made.
- [45:12]
A
And for fourth and fifth mvp, would you have Jaylen Brown fourth?
- [45:18]
B
Fourth seems fair. Sure.
- [45:20]
A
With no Luka.
- [45:22]
B
Yeah, with no Luka for sure. Absolutely.
- [45:24]
A
And who would be the fifth spot for you? Because this is something else we argue about in the next segment. You could have Mitchell. You could have Brunson. You could have Kawhi.
- [45:33]
B
Could have Kawhi. It'd probably have to be Brunson for me, honestly. Okay, Probably Brunson.
- [45:41]
A
House, later we're going to send you in a soundproof chamber and later on you'll hear if your hicks match the picks of me or Kurt Goldsberry. Who do you have for rookie of the Year, by the way?
- [45:52]
B
Khan. It's not even close to me. It's not even close. I mean, it's funny how House and
- [45:57]
A
I are aligned a lot of times.
- [45:58]
B
I just cannot. Cannot under any circumstance. This isn't a year where you're. You're having to hold your nose and choose between bad choices. Like, this is not a.
- [46:09]
A
Who.
- [46:10]
B
Who's. I'm. I'm going to use. Say somebody did kill Alexander Walker, win it a handful of years.
- [46:17]
A
No. Michael Carter Williams did.
- [46:18]
B
That's a weird thing, guy. Yeah, yeah.
- [46:21]
C
Like, are you a House? Are you against hyphen guys winning these awards? What's your problem?
- [46:26]
B
I just knew there was a hyphen guy that won rookie of the year because we couldn't come up with the answer to who the rookie of the year should be. That's not this year. Just Dallas is a disaster. That is an absolute. I. What you're doing is saying this 19 year old did things that a teenager shouldn't do. That's great. I don't have any issue whatsoever. Show me the winning basketball. I need to see the winning basketball. That's the part of it that's missing. Yeah.
- [46:54]
A
And if it's. And if it's a bad rookie of the year year and we're not comparing the winning stuff at all, then it's just like, all right, who played the best in a shit situation?
- [47:03]
B
Yeah, it's. Then you can say, okay, let's do the counting numbers. Let's do, let's do rebounds, assists and points. But that's not this year. And I think the force, the force multiplier effect of Knipple on this Charlotte team, the settling effect of his coming in and being so efficient with the threes that that to me, Flag will get his flowers. Flower. Flag deserves flowers. But how can you make any assessment of shit numbers on a shit team? Like it's. What you're saying is he is the best 19 year old. Well, we have rankings for that. We. There's other ways to capture that. Not Rookie of the year in the NBA.
- [47:44]
A
I just like to apologize to Kathy Flagg for House's inflammatory comments. And I hope she's still a friend of the party.
- [47:51]
B
My last point before we leave, I love Flag.
- [47:55]
A
We all love Flag.
- [47:57]
B
Love that guy.
- [47:58]
C
I will say there's been some strange movement in these newfangled betting markets over the last six hours on that rookie of the year thing. Hmm. So we could be living in a world where Luca's protest. Luca's. What is it called? Not a protest, it's a appeal.
- [48:17]
A
Yeah.
- [48:18]
C
This appeal process may have changed the outcome of this award. If those market maneuvering, the movements in these markets are to be trusted. Cooper has had some positive movement over the last six hours.
- [48:32]
A
Hey, last question before we go. Because House, you didn't come on and talk about this. Rory McIlroy won back to back Masters.
- [48:41]
B
He sure did, man.
- [48:43]
A
He played the Masters two years in a row and was the best guy each time. This is a thing that happened only
- [48:50]
B
four times in the history of the golf tournament. There's been. It's been around for 90 years. The other three guys to do it were Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus and Sir Nick Faldo. Three of the all time greats.
- [49:02]
A
Kirk. I mean if we had started the decade 2020 starts the decade right. January 1, 2020. We start the decade and think of all the things that have happened this decade, including a pandemic and Trump winning reelection. And name 17 crazy sports things. Rory winning back to back Masters would have been way, way up there. Way up there.
- [49:32]
B
Honestly not. I have to push back a tiny
- [49:35]
A
bit because back to back Masters.
- [49:38]
B
Well, I mean, but here's the thing
- [49:40]
A
that's like Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus shit.
- [49:42]
B
Yeah, it is that. And he, he earlier in his career looked like that's the trajectory he was on. What truly makes him the figure that he is in this sporting moment is that there was a 10 year gap between him winning majors. He went on this incredible drought and the pressure built, and the pressure built. And that's why last year's Masters resonated across the world in terms of sporting golf fandom and sports fandom. Because he overcame something that felt insurmountable. And even during the course of the round last year in 2025, he damn near lost it three or four different ways. So this year was like a validation of the true caliber of a legacy, a legacy kind of mark that he put down.
- [50:31]
A
Kirk, my favorite part of the Masters other than betting on Justin Rose and thinking that he was going to win the Masters. And then he just turned into a pumpkin on the ninth hole. Scotty Sheffler, he kind of sucked the whole tournament and he was like minus 11. It was the equivalent of watching somebody put up a 35, 11 and 12. Not making a shot from outside. Like it was like watching Lamello ball.
- [50:57]
C
Like he struggled all game and then
- [50:59]
A
you got his stats was unbelievable.
- [51:02]
B
No, that is so disrespectful to Scotty Scheffler.
- [51:04]
A
No. How dare you.
- [51:05]
B
I can't abide it.
- [51:06]
A
Yeah, you can't. Don't compare to Lamello ball.
- [51:08]
B
You're not playing house.
- [51:11]
C
Let me come back around. Scotty Scheffler went to the University of Texas and studied at this business school that I teach. And we are huge Scotty fans. I thought the same thing, Bill. He is playing terrible and that's how good he is right now. He played a terrible round by his standards. All of his drives were crazy. Every time he needed a big shot, he hit it off into the woods. He missed a birdie putt. That would have, I thought, really put the pressure on. I want to say the 12th or 13th hole and that stretch of hole's house where they all gained ground. He had a chance. I was rooting for him the whole time. I still think he's the best golfer in the world, but hats off to Rory. It was a great Sunday at the Masters. It was a great weekend. It was really fun. I was happy to see it. But now I'm ready for the NBA playoffs.
- [51:55]
A
Bill House. I love, I love watching great athletes struggle and get mostly to where they need to go. Anyway, it was like my favorite Jordan game other than the. The flu game. And the last game of his. Of his Bulls career was that game seven against the Pacers when he just didn't have his legs. And he's like, I gotta figure this out somehow. And just kind of patching together plays and stats with nothing.
- [52:19]
B
Those are always the best hallmark of a true champion.
- [52:22]
C
Winning with B.
- [52:23]
B
B minus game. Yeah, I mean, maybe it was closer to B plus for him. For Rory, we're speaking of because of how good his putting, his short game was, especially in the first two rounds. But he shot over par, you know, on. On Saturday and, and only one under on Sunday.
- [52:40]
A
And still Rory just basically played two awesome back nines. Right?
- [52:46]
B
Yeah.
- [52:47]
A
Where he was like one of the back dyns. He was like minus six. And then the other one was the Sunday back nine. But Scheffler, I don't think put together any good back dies.
- [52:57]
B
No, no. Sheffler on the weekend was a lot. He was even par going into the weekend. And then he did not make a bogey on Saturday or Sunday. He shot 11 under par on Saturday. Sunday he just could not score on the back nine fives. He only had one birdie the entire golf tournament and those.
- [53:16]
C
And that was a miracle one. Yeah, that was a miracle. Yeah, he saved that.
- [53:23]
B
You're right, KG.
- [53:24]
C
An incredible second shot on 18. Man, after he hit that Aaron drive, as somebody's rooting for Scotty, I was like, did he just do it? I think because that was almost going to be one of the most painful moments in golf, depending where that ball landed, man.
- [53:37]
B
The true Rory experience. That's it. That's the roller coaster.
- [53:42]
A
I mean, they missed a lot of replays and live shots, but they didn't have the perfect replay. That one Murray shot when it seemed like it seemed like it was going to ding and bounce backwards, which is usually what happens, and it just didn't.
- [53:54]
B
Somebody will cobble it together. There is emerging now some camera angles that seem like they captured it, but it would have been fun to see in real life.
- [54:03]
A
I have another thing I'm going to do as sports are after I settle Amazon's audio video issue, where the audio is before the video of the game I'm watching. That's. That's number one on my agenda, I think the Masters. And this is the only event that you should be able to do this with the Masters. They should be able to grab the best announcers from all the other networks. Like we should just have Toriko.
- [54:32]
B
What?
- [54:33]
A
And Van Pelt and Joe Buck should all be on holes.
- [54:38]
B
Van Pelt is there.
- [54:39]
A
Van Pelt, he should be on a hole.
- [54:41]
B
He should be on a hole.
- [54:42]
C
I like this.
- [54:43]
A
15, 16, 17. I want Van Pelt, Tirico and Joe Buck and they're just there. We don't want anything else. We'll fly you in. You get your own house. Just work this hole on Saturday and Sunday. It's a two day thing. And just do your thing and let's go with the big boys.
- [54:59]
B
Tirico does the radio call. He didn't do it this year because he went to the Olympics, but he, he does cover the Masters.
- [55:06]
A
I don't listen to the Masters on the fucking radio.
- [55:08]
C
I know, I understand.
- [55:09]
B
Put him.
- [55:11]
A
And who would you have on the 16th hole if you could have anybody?
- [55:14]
B
Vern Lundquist.
- [55:16]
C
Yeah, that's the answer.
- [55:17]
B
AI Vern. I want Vern for the rest. Forever for the rest of my life.
- [55:21]
A
What hole would you put Eric Collins on? Would you put him on? What would be the most exciting era? Colin Soul. 15.
- [55:32]
B
Lot of big things happen on 15. Maybe 12. Like.
- [55:35]
A
Oh, 12's good. Yeah, yeah, 12's good.
- [55:37]
B
The drama there, real catastrophes happen on 12.
- [55:42]
A
Oh, gee, I'm a toothpick in my throat. He's in the water.
- [55:46]
B
That's it. There you go.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah, I love that.
- [55:49]
B
Justin Rose hit it over the green and then flubbed a chip. How would Eric Kahns handle that?
- [55:53]
A
I'm telling you, just get all these dudes. We just get them for two days. It's best of the best. It's like when they make those Avengers movies for the Marvel, when they put all the great actors in one movie. Let's just do it for the last two days. Nobody's against this. Kurt Goldsberry, pleasure to see you as always. We look forward to your Masters shot chart map that I'm sure you're working on. By the way, that would be a good idea.
- [56:16]
B
Do that. Do it right now. I'll buy one. I'll send you the Venmo right now. I love you, Joe House.
- [56:24]
A
Thanks for staying up late. We appreciate it. Seeing the ringer gambling showing on fairway rolling and I'll be. I'll be making you pop on during the playoffs as well. We're gonna take a break. Coming back, me and Kurt Goldsberry are gonna go through all the awards. Let's go. As you know, I've been doing Wednesday bets on Fanduel. I actually won the last two. We hit a big parlay on Wemby that was like nine to one. And then Justin rose top five masters plus 650. That one hit two almost one. Justin rose to win the Masters. I think it was 35 to 1. He let me down but he still got the top five. So let's see if we can keep the streak going. I already jumped the gun. I did my my play in BET Tuesday night Portland. That was my favorite bet of the four playing games. But I also really like Philly. I think Philly beats Orlando. I love betting on the NBA and FanDuel. It's a brand I trust. Easy to build by BET. You know you get your winnings instantly. Play in tournaments. Always fun. Do parlays. I did like a Charlotte Portland Philly parlay that was like five to one. But I like Philly straight up. I just think Orlando's ready for the season to end and they couldn't stop Maxi in the regular season. I am a Philly moneyline. Maybe throw that in with with the Cavs to beat Toronto in the series. Something like that. Go nuts. Do whatever you need to do. So don't forget to check out my middle of the week bets. Usually it'll be Wednesday, but there might be a Tuesday I like on Fand using the FanDuel sportsbook app. Don't forget to use your profit boost token to increase your potential winnings before you place it. Fanduel Play your game. This episode is brought to you by HubSpot. You know why elite point guards make everyone better? It isn't just the no look dimes. It's because they know everything. Who's hot, who's tired. What the defense is doing. Which teammate needs a basket. Most businesses don't have that. Sales run one play, marketing runs another. Nobody told service. The game plan has now changed. HubSpot gives you that point guard vision. One platform, full customer context. And that context is everything you need to win. Visit HubSpot.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Firestone Complete Auto Care. There are a few things you don't want to overthink. Like where you take your car when something feels off. Firestone Complete Auto Care is basically a one stop shop. Tires, oil changes, brakes, batteries, alignments, diagnostics, Whatever's going on, there are thousands of ASE certified technicians have got it covered. Plus, every visit comes with a courtesy inspection, including free tire and battery checks. Visit firestoneauto.com to find a location near you. A trusted name since 1926. All right, we just traveled in a time machine backwards to before the playing games when Kurt Goldsberg and I banked this whole segment because we want to talk big picture. Round one, playoffs. I wanted to do my award picks. More importantly, what an honor for you. You have a vote. I can't remember.
- [59:27]
C
Yeah, yeah. Democracy is back in America.
- [59:30]
A
Bill, have you said your vote publicly yet? No.
- [59:34]
C
We're going to do this right now.
- [59:35]
A
Let's fucking do it. We'll talk about the playoffs later. So this Luca thing is so weird. Yeah, it screws up the top five mvp. Cause he would be fourth on my ballot if he's eligible. We don't know if he is. There's some sort of weird appeal process we have to go through. I don't know why the NBA doesn't care about podcast content and dumb shows like ours where we obsess over this stuff and then it. It screws up. First team, all NBA. It opens up a spot for somebody and it adds a spot on the third team for somebody because everybody moves up a spot. So I want to do all NBA first. We'll finish with MVP and we'll hit all the other categories. So I had first team, Jokic, Wemby, Luka, sga, and Jalen, which I think is chalk, right? Yeah, you had that as well.
- [60:24]
C
Okay, on the Luca inversion of my spreadsheet, now I have a Luca out version of my spreadsheet. To your point, let's talk about that
- [60:32]
A
because that's more interesting. So Luca's in. If they do the weird ruling and they're like, oh, he flew back for the birth of his child, that somehow counts as a game. It would be funny. I've said this before, but if Silver said, you know what? We reject the appeal, he would have played 65 if he hadn't gotten 16 technicals. And maybe he'll learn his lesson now and we just all moved on. All right, Luka out. Alternate first team. I have Mitchell in the Luka spot. Who do you have?
- [61:04]
C
I have Kawhi Leonard, which was sort of surprising as I went through this Bill. But you look at this dude's numbers, and he's nearing 50, 40, 90 at 28 points a game. He's obviously a defender, but I just couldn't justify any other Pick. I know it's a controversial season for Kawhi. I know the Clippers aren't that great, but this is probably his best season as a scorer of his career. If he's ever been first team all NBA, there's an argument that it should be this year. So I went, Kawhi,
- [61:37]
A
I can't kill it. So he was sixth in scoring in the league this year. He was 7.5 net plus, played 32 minutes a game. Career high points per game, which I couldn't believe.
- [61:52]
C
Yeah, I couldn't believe it either. 27. 9 was that.
- [61:54]
B
It was.
- [61:54]
A
Yeah. Third highest year, 14 points per game ever. So of any year, 14 guy. Third highest we've ever had. And I think the other two were Durant and Curry, both of whom played in the 50s for games that year. Defense was there. I think it's a good pick. I just, I had a hard time putting him first team all NBA when the team was barely 500 and he was there for a bunch of those. When they started when they were 6 and 9, I just couldn't get past that. Whereas Mitchell, you know that that was a top four team the whole year. They had some injuries. I think there's some MVP conversation for him too, and was pretty steady for them for the most part. I thought he had. I thought he had a good year. He played over 70 games, 33.5 minutes a game, 7 points per game. He's a 28. 5 and 6. And I just felt like. I don't really feel like either of them are first team all NBAs, to be honest. But if Luka's gonna be out, who else did we lose? We lost one more bad one.
- [63:01]
C
What do you mean we lost Ant, man. What do you mean we lost?
- [63:04]
A
We lost Ant. I think Ant would have been the other one who could have swam in that swimming pool.
- [63:10]
C
Oh, for sure.
- [63:11]
A
But did not. Okay, so we disagree on Mitchell versus.
- [63:14]
C
Sorry, Kate.
- [63:15]
A
Oh, Kade is the other one. Yeah. Cade had that spot forever and then just didn't make it. It, by the way, Just missed it.
- [63:22]
C
Yeah. Too much load management. Maybe too much lung management. I don't know what we're going to call it this time around, but. Cade Cunningham. What a travesty.
- [63:31]
A
Well, so let's say you could have voted 60. Like let's say 60 games and up instead of 65.
- [63:42]
C
Yeah.
- [63:43]
A
Would Luca and Kate have made it for you?
- [63:47]
C
I had to put Jaylen Brown in there, man. Jalen Brown and Cade. I. I know other people are going to roast me for this. But I ended up with Jalen. He reinvented his game. That team had no business going on the run that it went on. And he was the best player on that team all year long as they went through that incredible surprising run. I'm not mad at anybody had Cade Cunningham above Jaylen Brown, but it would have been Luca and Jaylen for me.
- [64:12]
A
I feel the same way. Played almost 2,500 minutes. Everything he did peaked in his 10th season which is just incredibly unusual for the NBA. There's really no. I had a whole thing. I was looking up guys who made first team all NBA for the first time in their 10th season. John Stockton in 1994. And that's it. Wow. It's the only one. And he had six seconds leading up to this. So you could say in some ways this is one of the great aberration seasons anybody has had 10 years or later in their career. But there were reasons for it. Including Tatum, him having to take the higher usage rate. I've made the case for Jalen over and over again. You kind of had to see the season and see how limited the Celtics were from can we get a reliable basket anywhere night to night. Not knowing if Pritchard was going to be on or not. I love Pritchard but. But he's a little bit on off white shooting wasn't there the whole year. And It's. Jalen had 30 points or more 35 times out of the 70 plus games he played. And they needed him all the time. It was just always nice to know like all right, whatever happens, we have somewhere to go in the fourth quarter. We have somebody. We're getting. We know we're getting 30 to 35 from this guy. We know he is going to get to the line. On top of it was taking on defensive challenge over and over again against people like Shai and Kawhi. Anytime they needed a stopper, it seemed like he ended up on the bigger scores. And I thought from a leadership, physicality attitude standpoint, he's the biggest reason they won 56 games by far. Yeah.
- [65:50]
C
And we didn't get to see what Cade would have done down the stretch. So we were robbed of that. And that's why this is a hypothetical. If Cade had finished. I mean the case for Cade is the Detroit offense without Cade until he got hurt was a awful, awful unit. And when as soon as he came in the game everything was fine. He ran that thing as well as John Stockton. He was like he was the conductor of that orchestra. And also just a great leader and so you know, we were robbed at the end of that.
- [66:20]
A
Yeah.
- [66:21]
C
But yeah, Jalen ended up coming absorbing on his. Not easy Bill Simmons to deal with Jason Tatum just sliding back into the fold after doing what you do for 66 games now. Now let's back into the Jayson Tatum and he handled that as perfectly as anybody could have expected.
- [66:37]
A
I'm really glad you mentioned that because I don't know if that would have gone the right way all the time like Jalen gets credit for. Come on back in. Let's figure this out how this is going to work. If Kate had played 70 games and we had Luca and I think Luca trumps both those guys, Jalen versus Cade would have been an awesome argument, but we were sadly robbed of that opportunity. All right, second team, if Luka's in, I am looking at Jalen Duran, Kawhi Leonard, Donovan Mitchell, Jamal Murray and Jalen Brunson. Three guards, which I don't love. I let's talk about this now. I'm just always voting a center for each team or at least some sort of big. I want my, my all NBA team to look somewhat like a basketball team. I'm not going to do like just handing out the trophies for everybody. There's. What are there a hundred votes? 110 votes. I forget how many votes there are. Everybody approaches it differently. That's the way I approach it. I value the eight decades of history. We had centers every year for the first seven plus decades of the league. And I'm not just going to dump that because Joel Embiid and Jokic got weird with first and second team. It got weird with Russell and Will. I've talked about this ad nauseam. So I have Duran, Kawhi, Mitchell, Murray and Brunson. Who do you have?
- [68:00]
C
So I have Kawhi in this world where Luca is in. Then Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, Kevin Durant and I go Chet, I go Chet Holmgren here largely because I wanted to center in there and because defensive conversations aren't well represented in all NBA and he's one of the most impactful. He's definitely the second most impactful defender in the league right now.
- [68:22]
A
I battled Shet first, Durin went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth on it. Fairly similar case. Duran stats are better. Minutes are around the same. Yeah, the defensive stats for Chad are better and Chet's rim protection stuff was pretty nuts. I actually as recently as like three, four weeks ago, I had him on the bubble because I hadn't done the deep dive on all the defensive stats, like, Holy shit, he's second in rim protection. They're first in defensive rating. Just in general, they're 56 and 13. When he played, he's a 56, 36, 79 guys. So the statistical case is there, I thought. The reason I went with Duran is I just thought he meant more to that Detroit team where him and Cade were the guys that the physicality, the competitiveness, the attitude that that team had came from those two guys and spread down. And everyone else kind of carried themselves the same way, too. And when Cade went out, I was so impressed that they kept winning. And I felt like every time I watched Earn, I'm just like, that guy's a fucking badass. So I think that's a. You could go either way. I'm fine with it. I didn't feel 100% on it, but 28 minutes a game for him. 70 games, they're plus 7.8 net. When he played, he was sixth in rebounds. And I thought he really grew as an offensive guy. He's going to come up at another award. But I was really. I didn't know he had this in him, I guess is my bigger point.
- [69:53]
C
And he was there. I mean, J Dub wasn't there. I thought it was a good chance for him to sort of emerge in an offensive role, but also sort of the second banana role. But for me, ultimately it's like, dude, this guy is one of the big reasons they're the best defense in the NBA for the second year. Yeah. Who are you talking about?
- [70:11]
A
Well, I was talking about Jalen before, but you're talking about Chet now.
- [70:13]
C
Yeah, yeah, I was talking about Chad. My fault.
- [70:15]
A
No, that's all right.
- [70:17]
C
This is very confusing, by the way, for the audience to have this Luca non Luca thing. I think Bill and I are very, very confused. So thanks, NBA.
- [70:27]
A
So Luca out. I have Duran, Kawhi, Murray, Brunson and Kevin Durant, and I didn't feel great about it. But here's the case for Durant. Second in minutes in the league, played 79 games, played 36 minutes a game. He was 26, 6 and 5. He was a 52, 41, 87 guy. That team didn't have a point guard basically at all, and he carried that. And I thought statistically, if you remove all the burner scandal stuff and some of the weird chemistry that team has, statistically, pretty incredible season. We've only had three guys 37 years or older ever, average 25 plus points a game. Him, Steph and LeBron seems like a fitting class. And I had him third team because the Burner scandal really bothered me and the whole thing. I thought it affected the team. I thought you could see it. I don't know how culpable he was in it, but I just didn't like it. But ultimately, like I just. With all these other dudes out, I think he has to nudge up. So who did you have in that. That extra spot if Luke is out?
- [71:45]
C
I put Jamal Murray my second team with Jalen Brunson, Durant Chet and Donovan Mitchell.
- [71:51]
A
Okay, so we're basically, we're basically the same except you had Mitchell in the non Luca first team. Oh, I had Mitchell in the non Luca first team. And you had Kawhi in the non Mitchell first team.
- [72:05]
C
Yep, that's exactly right.
- [72:07]
A
Did you think at all about Brunson third team, second team, or were you just good to go with that?
- [72:12]
C
I'm so impressed by him and maybe it's bleeding over from the playoff run, but he's just so clutch and so important for that team and ended up earning a three seed in the east. And, and you know, frankly the other guys on the team, Bill, are so inconsistent that he, he just has to be so high usage and so reliable as their go to scorer. When your best, second best player is Cat, who I'm sure we're going to talk about here in a second, it just impresses me. So Jalen Brunson elevating this Knicks team to. To the third seed in a world where there's so much inconsistency around him offensively, whether we're talking about Bridges or Anobi or Josh Hart or whoever else else. I've always been sort of a pro Brunson guy, so I had him second team.
- [72:57]
A
Yeah. If Luca, if Luka Encade had played, I think I would have had Murray over Brunson because of Murray was he ended up playing 76 games or 75 games. He was sixth in minutes. He was fourth and made threes 25, 4 and 7 every night almost. He's a 48, 44, 88 guy. And I just thought he had a harder job than. Than Brunson. As weird as that sounds, as good as Brunson is, where that entire Knicks team is built around Brunson. Yeah, the Denver you have to figure out Jokic has the ball the time. He's figured out completely how to play off Jokic, how to carry non Jokic minutes playing with this rotating cast of swings that were either hurt or CA Johnson's not playing well. And I just thought he was so steady and so good all season. Felt like there was no drop off with him month to month. I didn't look at his monthly splits, but they couldn't have been much different every month. I thought he was just so impressive.
- [73:59]
C
It was, yeah, his best year ever, right?
- [74:01]
A
Yeah. So I was thinking, like, if you switch them, would the Knicks be worse? Would Denver be worse? I think if you switch them, I think the Knicks would be around the same. I think Murray could do a lot of the stuff Brunson was doing for them, but I think the Nuggets would have been worse. It's a dumb way to think about it, but I think the way Murray played, I feel like he could fit into any team. I was just really impressed by him this year. Brunson, you know, as a crunch time guy, the confidence that he has and the connection he has. But there's great things with him too. A lot of good teams this year. A lot of good players this year. Okay, now we're going to get wonky because we have a third team with some guys that, that I just can't believe are even in the mix. I have for my Luca, if Luka counts, here's my five. Chet, who, who you had kd, who I had bumped up to second team without Luca, but he's third team if Luka's involved. Chet, kd, Jalen Johnson, Steph Castle. Oh, and Tyrese Maxey. That's my five. I did it.
- [75:15]
C
I heard you talking about it.
- [75:17]
A
So if Luca's out, that leaves me with Chet, Jalen Johnson, Castle, Maxi, and Scotty Barnes, which I just don't feel great about. But I'll give you the Barnes case. Well, I'll give you, you give me yours and then we'll talk about some of the cases here.
- [75:36]
C
So with Luca in, I have Murray Maxey, Jalen Duran. Okay, there's my big Jalen Johnson and Kat.
- [75:43]
A
So that's Kat. Okay, interesting.
- [75:46]
C
I did have Kat and then on my Luka out, I have Maxi Duran, Jalen Johnson, Kat, and then Shen Goon is the beneficiary. If on my ballot if interesting if Luca is not included. So it's crazy. Just for the audience, this decision is going to affect two people in a grand way. Luka Doncic, obviously, but the 16th best player in the NBA in theory is going to become all NBA third team or the 16th candidate. And in my case that's Sengun.
- [76:20]
A
I mean really, he's the seventh team and ants out. So I guess that was down to 18. I looked at Shangoon first of all, I didn't want to have two rockets because I hated watching them for the most part. They drive me crazy. I had them first half of the year. I didn't love how the second half of the year went. I thought the chemistry stuff. I always go down to how much fun would you so and so be to play with With Sengun, I'm not always positive he'd be the most fun to play with. His teammates seem like they got really frustrated with him. So he didn't even. He wasn't.
- [77:00]
C
I had.
- [77:02]
A
I just couldn't do two rockets. So I'll make the case for Castle Firth. Cause see, I had him either way. So he finished 17, 5 and 7, 47, 33, 73 on the shooting, played high 60s, played 30 minutes a game. So one of the most impressive players I saw in person. I just couldn't believe what a badass he was on both ends of the floor and goes after it every single play. And then when you watch him on. I don't have to sell you. You love the Spurs. I love him. Just every play doesn't take off. I feel like there's more there. I feel like he sacrificed stuff for the team. I think if he was on a shittier team, Dylan Harper was another one that I thought sacrificed. I think if Castle was on a mediocre team or a playing team or whatever, I think his stats could have been better. I think he kind of just. I think he's just all about how are we winning? How are we winning? How are we winning? I think guys hate dribbling up against him.
- [78:04]
C
Yes.
- [78:05]
A
Trying to beat him off the dribble, trying to post him up. They fucking hate playing him. He got way better as a shooter as the year went along. That's the other thing I care about that with all NBA that you actually got better as the year went along. He was over 40% from 3 second half of the year. I thought his threes were going in when he took them during that streak. And I just thought he was their second best player and that team won 60 plus games.
- [78:29]
C
He was their second best player. And you know, one thing he didn't say that I think is huge with the spurs season is he's the biggest reason, Bill. I think they give the Thunder a hard time. Aside from the obvious. Victor Wembanyama.
- [78:40]
A
Yeah.
- [78:41]
C
He is longer and stronger than almost any of their guards, which is insane. It's insane to even say that that's what The Thunder are. They're just ferocious perimeter hounds, and he gives them a personality not only to counter that, but to supersede it in some ways. So he's one of my favorite players, if not my favorite player in pro basketball right now. I love to watch him. It's a treat to go to the spurs game. He's a huge part of their team. Ultimately, his numbers don't justify his inclusion on this for me, but I'm happy to hear the sports guy giving this dude some praise.
- [79:18]
A
There's one other thing with him, and it's. It's a weird. I. We have no stat for it. It's a. You know, when you see it, he's really malleable with their lineups. And, like, the best guy ever for this was John Havlicek a million years ago. John Havlicek could be a guard or a forward, depending on who else was on your team. It's like, we actually have more forwards now. You can be a guard, like, cool. Nah, we're a little light on forwards. Can you play up? Sure. Can you guard this guy? Great. Can you guard this guy over here? Awesome. Can you fit in? And I think that Swiss army knife thing with swing men are really hard to find. And one of the things I love about Castle is, like, he can be in any lineup they have. You want to go four guards?
- [80:03]
B
Cool.
- [80:04]
A
Play him at the fucking four. You want him to play point guard for you and handle the ball like he can do that. Like, I think when you have a guy like that, it just becomes so much easier to be good. And that team was really good. But, like, his flexibility, I thought was the second biggest reason that they were as good as they were. Pick a lineup, pick a situation. He could handle it.
- [80:27]
C
It's a great point because he can blend. Scoring the ball, driving it. He's so ferocious with two feet in the paint. He's a great passer. He has these turnover issues that I'm sure he's going to get past because he's just so determined. But he does have turnover red flags. The shooting has come along, but I have the stat that Stefan Castle is the seventh player in NBA history to average 15 points, seven assists and five rebounds at age 21 or younger. So this might not help him for all NBA, but the guys are Magic, LeBron, Chris Paul, and then there's a couple funny ones. Ben Simmons. Whatever happened to that guy? Luka Doncic, Lamelo ball. And then Stefan Castle. So his blending, filling up the box score as a guard with Those kinds of numbers. Obviously he's physical enough to get boards, get extra possessions.
- [81:14]
A
He's.
- [81:15]
C
He's a big part of the spurs culture and I think even more so than Wemby gives them a toughness. Totally with, with the other teams in the West. I, I adore. I think that's coming through. I know Zach loves this player as much as I, I do and you do too. So I hope he gets third team all NBA as a homer. But as an analyst, I ended up with a different answer there.
- [81:36]
A
So Scotty Barnes, 18, 7 and 6, 50% shooting, but couldn't hit threes. Was down to 30 by the end of the year. Did a lot of stuff for them. They ended up with a five seed. Now the five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 were all like two wins apart. And Toronto I think was 500 the last 60 games. It's not like this was an awesome team, but he was the key guy in the team, did the most defensively. I don't know if I have him in first team, but he was right on the fringe. I think I put him second team all D and you know, versus putting two guys from the same team versus having a guy who is number a number five seed, who's their best player. I'm okay with it. It's hard for me to wrap my head around him being a third team all NBA guy, but the only other one I was looking at was Abdia and you know, he barely hit the minimum. He's 247 and I just couldn't get there with Abdia. I didn't think the team was. Toronto's team was better than Portland's team. And that's, I don't know, the winning piece matters to me at least a little bit.
- [82:43]
C
That's how I arrived at some of these tough decisions too is, you know, show me what you did in the standings to some extent and in the Western Conference. So sengun for me is like ye, the west is a harder thing to win in. You know, it is really thin. I looked at Denny too, and hats off to him. What a, what a, what an incredible most improved player case he has. Yeah, I did not see this coming with him as an attacker learning the dark arts of foul baiting as well as almost any other player his age in the league. For me, just can't shoot it well enough to justify that. I'd like to see him get Portland to a next level and I could see him doing that next year. Credit to him if this, this continues. He's clearly got an All NBA future if he continues to improve like he did this year.
- [83:29]
A
Yeah, the problem, I think they were 2 and 16 against the top three teams in both conferences. They got swept by the Celtics and they got swept by the Knicks. And that's where that, that's where the All NBA like voting him.
- [83:43]
C
All NBA.
- [83:44]
A
That's the, it's the one I might change my mind on before we have to hand in the ballots, but right now, that's who I have. I didn't consider Towns Avdia. It would be funny. We're taping this before the playing game today, but it'd be funny if the playing game swung any of this stuff mentally, even though it's not supposed to. I couldn't get there with Towns, So he was 20 and 12, 50% shooting. I just, I couldn't get there because it just, he's a lot, he's just a lot in the game. There's games where you're just like, wow, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? Yeah. And I just, I couldn't totally get there. I thought about him for the, for the center spot, but I just don't think he had a case against Darren and Chad.
- [84:26]
C
Yeah, I put him in that sort of front court, the vague front court position. I think what he does statistically is really impressive. I think rebounds remain one of the more underrated metrics in this league.
- [84:37]
A
Yeah.
- [84:38]
C
And you know that. Yeah, well, it's true. The Celtics really were a rebounding juggernaut this year. That's a big part of their story. And then I think what he does on offense, even when he does have the ball, just stretching out the defense is so important for Brunson and helping the Knicks be such an effective offense. Yeah, Cat's fingerprints are on that. That put me there. But again, this is a team that's in the top half of their bracket, a third seed. That means a lot to me. And so I had Cat there.
- [85:07]
A
Okay. Ineligible were Cade, ant, Booker and LeBron. If you wanted to get crazy. Harden is the only one who I, I took a look at when Zach does this. Zach has like 48 guys and he's down looking at like all of the Hornets and he loses his mind. I, I, I don't go that far. Harden, that traded mid season, that's a tough one.
- [85:33]
C
That bothers me too.
- [85:34]
A
I thought he made the Cavs worse defensively, like almost overnight. Like, they just dropped down to 15, 16. Defensively, I just couldn't get there. All right, so that's, we go. So my, my all NBA right now with no Luca is Jokic, Wemby, Sja, Jalen, Mitchell, Duran, Kawhi, kd, Murray and Brunson and then Chet, Jalen Johnson, Castle, Maxi and Barnes that we didn't talk about Jalen Johnson that was another one like figuring out second team third team on BA with me he was 23, 10 and 8.
- [86:08]
C
Yeah.
- [86:10]
A
End of games I just, I'm not he he's not there and I they really kind of needed CJ to be the guy and then Alexander Walker when he's hot and yeah so it's. It's almost like he's the overqualified third banana on that team. Sometimes he's doing a lot but I don't. I didn't. I just didn't feel like he was one of had a case for being one of the 10 best players in the league league even with all the injuries seemed like a lot for him.
- [86:36]
C
No if the season started in January maybe because the Hawks were that good since then but it didn't and you're right about the CJ stuff and, and you know I'm a big Hawk supporter but when they play a good team down the stretch it is too much CJ and I'm worried about that in the playoffs and that's gotta, that's gotta ding Jaylen Johnson a little bit.
- [86:55]
A
And then Maxi was first, first in minutes per game, fifth in points, fourth in steals. 28, 4 and 7 and. And if you just want to have a second team of all guards he makes it probably bumps if you do want to care about a center. Okay, quick break and then we'll do Coach of the Year. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn for small business. Every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are Limited. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner, designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full time job. Job Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI powered screening interviews. Its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language. No recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60% of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Hire right the first time get started by posting your first job for free@LinkedIn.com Simon that's LinkedIn.com Simmons terms and conditions apply. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast, brought to you by Spectrum Business Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi, Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.com business to learn more Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Coach of the year is between Missoula and Bickerstaff. Who did you have as your third guy in this?
- [88:36]
C
I put Mitch Johnson right there. Maybe even with JB Bickerstaff. I'm a big believer in what Mitch and that staff was able to do this year to help the team go from a tanking team to what was their over under. I don't mean to put you on the spot.
- [88:49]
A
42 and a half. Yeah.
- [88:50]
B
Yeah.
- [88:51]
C
42 and a half to a 60 win team. Bill Simmons. Yeah, we when something again. That's one of the things that matters to me for this category. Coach of the year is what do we expect from you in October and where did you end up in April? And so Mitch Johnson has a very impressive answer to those questions. And so he's clearly in this conversation for me.
- [89:11]
A
He was for me. Well, I, I thought there were four choices for this. I, I have Mitch Johnson as well. I had Jordan for a while. Yeah. And, and I feel bad. I wish, I kind of wish we could have four choices for this. Just in general, I don't know why they limit it to three. I think that's, that's weird.
- [89:35]
C
You know what, that's a really good point.
- [89:36]
A
Like I have like at least a mount coach more for the year.
- [89:40]
C
But there's really good coaches. If we have to go 15 deep for all NBA and five deep for, for rookie and, and like where 10 deep for rookie. Why we do five D for coaches?
- [89:49]
A
I don't know. The Suns finished 45 and 37. I thought they were very well coached. But Mitch Johnson, I mean they, they were the best team in the league for four months. Nobody saw that coming. I thought he did a really good job managing everybody's minutes, not playing people too much, figuring out different lineups. So I had him third. I have Missoula first and Bickerstaff second. And I switched on this a bunch of times and I see the case for Bickerstaff. I just thought when they won all those games without Cade, that was nuts. It was like holy shit. You don't have a single guy who I completely trust to create a shot. How are you still winning the Missoula thing's nuts. They were over under was 42 and they went 56 and 26. The team played hard. I think they took maybe three games off out of the 82. The thing that impressed me the most is how they brought Tatum back into it. And I think that's what pushed it for me, the fact that they won 56 games but also brought this star back without upsetting anything that they had just built over the last four months. I thought he had the hardest coaching job in the league of any successful team by far. I don't even think it's a question. And then ironically, that game 82 was a perfect example of why they should win. The team is just wired a certain way and he's the most important. It's not, I said this Sunday night, it's not Jalen's team or Jason's team. It's Missoula's team. That's right. Everything they do is based on the fact that he's just a competitive psycho in a good way. So I have him first, I Bickerstaff second. I feel bad, but I just think that's the way it has to go.
- [91:34]
C
I don't think it's close. I mean, I agree with what you said about Bickerstaff. I remember I was on Zach's show when the morning that we found out out that that Cade had the lung injury and we were like, oh, are the Celtics going to catch them? And it was like a realistic possibility. And I was looking at their schedule and I was like, well, if you look at these numbers without Cade, they haven't been very. It was a really good stretch without Cade and bigger staff deserves some flowers for that. However, this is exactly what Joe Missoula did from October to March, right? That whole stretch he did that and he turned the main red clock claws into a juggernaut and it was impressive. And like I've compared I think on your show before, it reminds me of the pop 2010 spurs when we're load managing Manu and Tony and Kawhi and it's all of a sudden it's Boris Dion, Gary Neal and Danny Green out there beating anybody. They have that Baylor, Shireman, Hugo. That whole team has no business where they ended up and it to me is the most impressive coaching job. And one other point I want to get to you. Nobody talks about Brad as much as they should, but it reminds me of Brad Stevens, the Butler coach. Like the mid major, the chip on your shoulder mid major guy, how he's able to turn these guys Find these guys these. To extend the college analogy, he takes a three star recruitment route and turns them into a player that can beat Duke or North Carolina or Florida in a tournament game. That's what it feels like to me. So like, I feel like his, his college coaching and his player development era has come to life here. But ultimately it is Joe Missoula's job to get those lineups out there to make this a really competent two way juggernaut with players that nobody thought could do that that six months ago.
- [93:27]
A
Yeah. And also losing Simons, basically. They basically turned Simons into Tatum, but they only have two guards and he's got to really manage those minutes. And then when there's the nights when Tatum War Brown was sitting out and then you're basically just hoping you can get 35 to 30, 35 minutes from each guard and 36 from Tatum. And then you're hoping Baylor Shireman can run something in the offense like that. Like some of the shit that was going down was crazy. The other crazy thing about the Celtics season, I really thought they should have won more than 56 games. Like if you just look at Denver was the other team like this dumb games. You should go 50, 50 on dumb games. Right? Like, whoa, that was a dumb win. I can't believe we, we stole that versus, oh, I can't believe we blew that. Denver was like 4 and 16 in those games. Like they, they always seem to lose games they should have won. And the Celtics, there's a bunch of them where, where there was a couple like end of the game rug got pulled out of them. Stupid losses. They had, I think two to Philly. There was the road games against San Antonio and OKC where weird shit happened. Both games I felt like they could have. So anyway, I, I actually thought they could have done even better than 56, which is nuts.
- [94:42]
C
Yeah. And you talk about it being Missoula's team. I love that take. And to me we talk about culture way too much now in the NBA. It's become a cliche.
- [94:50]
A
Yeah.
- [94:51]
C
But when you look at how this story started, why your team ended up hiring Joe Missoula and when.
- [94:57]
A
And that story that turned out to be. Yeah, yeah.
- [95:01]
C
And now it's like, that's the coach of the year. What a story that is. But ultimately, like I said, Bill, this team has his personality as one of the strangest, sort of most aggro, competitive, unique personalities I've ever seen a head coach in this league have. And it works. It is contagious. In the locker Room and my favorite moment of game 82. And you already talked about this a little bit on your show with Legs or maybe with ZACH. But that ATO just to drop that two for one where Luka Garza shooting from 27ft. And I know that was the play and that's an insane play. And it worked. And it was one of those guys who nobody thought would make a meaningful shot this entire season. And it was just a great moment. And it comes from the mind of Joe Mazzulla.
- [95:46]
A
Incredible coaching job and a little bit of revenge for him because I think he was really upset with the Knicks series and, and those two games and just, you know, I, I think he was in the workshop. Defensive player of the year. Wemby's going to win. Everyone's picking Wemby. Top five's interesting. So I'll just give you my. You won't be surprised to know I am not a I'm putting five centers on my first team defensive team. I'm just not doing that. I, I will do maximum two. I still want each I, I, I still want the guards to be represented a little in a swing. So we both had Wemby and Chad, I'm guessing.
- [96:24]
C
Yep.
- [96:25]
A
Did we both have Asar Thompson?
- [96:28]
C
No, I put both Thompsons on the second team.
- [96:31]
A
Okay. All right, I'll tell you mine. I had Wemby and Chet. I had a Sar Thompson, I had Castle and I had K's on Wallace, who I thought was the most devastating defensive guard I saw all year. I could not believe what a nightmare he was. Was I. And I actually think they're going to have to get rid of Dort so he can play more next season would be my guess with what they're going to do. But that to me, Wallace was the best defensive guard. I thought Asar Thompson was the best swing and I thought Castle was the best kind of back and forth like attitude swing. And then Wemby and Chet were the two centers. So who'd you have?
- [97:11]
C
Well, I have three centers. I, I, I look at it the other way. Centers are by far the most important defenders in the sport. Three on here, Three legendary defenders, in my opinion. Wemby, who is on another level. Chet, who second best defender in the league right now. And then Rudy Gobert, who's won defensive player of the year so many times. So, you know, I know that's not the sexiest pick. But then I add two perimeter players because I also value that. I don't want to over index on guys who just protect the Rim. I put Dyson Daniels on there. Who you talk about a nightmare is a walking deflection and steel and somebody who I bet that Jalen Brunson is going to be very sick of seeing here in a couple weeks. I can't wait to watch him in the playoffs. And then Derek White, spurs great but also single handedly one of the best shot blocking guards at that position. Always seems to be in the right place on defense. Might not be the athlete obviously that the Thompsons or Stefan Castle is but Derek is just the headiest perimeter defender and one of the most effective in the league. So I end up Wemby Chet, Go Bear, Derek White, Dyson.
- [98:19]
A
Interesting. I had White on my second team. I'd Gobert on my second team. I had Amen Thompson on my second team. I have an anobi on my second team and I put Scotty Barnes. I did not put Bam. Bam was the toughest cup for me and I also did not have Dyson Daniels on either team only because I thought as you made the case. I also feel like teams were pretty easily scoring on Atlanta all year and it was the same reason I left Bam off. You're one of the 10 best defensive players in the league at a key position but everybody seems like they can go for 1:30 on your team so I have to reward that. Gobert definitely it's just tough to knock him off. But Anunoby was the guy that I really thought was really jumped out to me a couple games this year with there's just nobody really. Zach and I talked about him a little Sunday like his size, physicality and just his style is so unique that if I was a 6 foot 8 scorer I think out of anybody he'd be the guy I wouldn't want to see.
- [99:30]
C
He's so important for them. You mentioned this earlier. We still have time to submit our ballots. I do not have OG and now I'm questioning that.
- [99:38]
A
So who you have for a second team?
- [99:40]
C
So I have both Thompson bros. I do have Bam. I have your guy Kayson Wallace and then I have Steph Castle. So that's guard heavy. I love it. OG though. You're convincing me dude. I think OG is so important to guarding the exact type of players like Boston. Right. Like that series last year. He's a big reason for that. He is a big reason for the headaches that Boston has when they play
- [100:04]
A
the Tatum has real trouble against him.
- [100:07]
C
He's such a big, big strong wing defender. Yeah.
- [100:13]
A
I'm trying to think if there are any Other tough omissions for me here. And we're good. We can move on. Rookie of the year.
- [100:20]
C
Oh, we're going to disagree here.
- [100:21]
A
I know I've con.
- [100:24]
C
I ran in funny story, Spurs Mavs game Friday night, Bill Simmons. I ran into Kelly Flag. She says hello. She says she's very interested who you're going to choose for rookie of the year.
- [100:35]
A
Did she really say that?
- [100:36]
C
Yeah, it was like one of those mafiosos.
- [100:42]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [100:43]
C
Say say hi to Bill for me.
- [100:45]
A
Yeah, tell Bill would. Yeah. Listen, Kelly Flag, we still love you. We still have your. Your condo ready for 2031 when your son joins the Celtics. I have con and it comes down to being on a good team and all the stuff he had to do versus Flag being on a crappy team that just gave him the car keys and said, make all the mistakes you want. You're going to be awesome. Someday you'll be better in game 82 than you are in game one. Just keep plugging away and go and no mistake is bad. And learn from this and by the end of the year, you're going to be in a good place. Which he was. Yeah, if I'm a rookie, I would rather be in that situation than the situation Khan was in where he was basically playing a playoff game every game from January on because they had dug such a hole for themselves early that they, you know, they're doing this trying to climb into the playoff picture. I think if Khan was on a bad team, I thought he could have scored more than he did. And you look at the advanced metric stuff and con stuff versus Flag, Flag's three point shooting was bad. I think Flag's a better player just from a talent ceiling standpoint. And I think Flag has a chance to be a generational star. I don't really know how to vote for the rookie. Is my other issue with this. Am I just voting for who jumps out as they're going to be awesome 10 years from now? Or is it am I just might just evaluate in the year? Because if I'm evaluated in the year, I made this case a couple. Couple pods ago. Like, Khan had an incredible season. He led the league in threes, he rebounded, he played defense. I felt like his gravity and all the movement he has was the key to how their offense really worked. He played the whole year. He never got. I think he played like 79 games and his team was, you know, we'll see, we'll. We're taping this before the playing game tonight. But his team turned out to be a, I thought one of the 10 best teams of the last four months of the season. And to me that just matters. Where I'm always going to gravitate toward the winning.
- [103:02]
C
Yeah, I had no idea Con could translate this well to the NBA, let alone this well, this fast. An incredible Klay Thompson esque catch and shoot season. And I don't say that lightly. If you look at it was Klay Thompson and Steph are the only people who combine volume and efficiency like this. Unlike Steph, he's doing a lot of it as a catch and shoot guy. And I'm not going to make the case against Khan. But to context, to contextualize it, I would say every opponent when they're playing this lowly Mavericks team, their game plan was built around stopping Cooper Flag. When you played the Hornets you have other players to deal with. Specifically Lamelo.
- [103:44]
A
Ball.
- [103:45]
B
Ball.
- [103:46]
C
At the end of the year, Cooper leads all rookies in scoring. He has more points per game, more assists, more rebounds, more steals than blocks than Con Canepel. He is the first rookie Bill Simmons since Michael Jeffrey Jordan to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. He is going to be an all NBA player for an eternity.
- [104:11]
A
Maybe, maybe next year. Year.
- [104:13]
C
Yeah. And this shouldn't come into the the discussion but remember this should be his freshman year in fucking college. I know he reclassified. That shouldn't be a criterion. Don't get me wrong on this. I'm fired up because I think he's just. And I, I appreciate how you look at the war there, There is some ambiguity here. Khan has played more meaningful minutes for a more meaningful team that I hope
- [104:33]
A
makes the playoffs in higher pressure situations too is the other thing like we're just game to game and he's playing teams that these are real games whereas Flag's playing games where they're just down 20 in the second quarter.
- [104:46]
C
You know, and some of it's vanity. I don't want to be the guy who didn't vote for Cooper flag in 10 years because I know where this is going with Coop and so I tend to look at it a little differently. And then the last thing I'd say is players like Wemby who are rookie of the year were on awful teams and we've seen this a lot.
- [105:05]
A
You know what, I went back and looked at that Wimby year because I remember voting for him and I went back and looked at my notes and he was like borderline defensive player of the year that year as a rookie I had Him Goberry. I had a whole thing on my notes of like it's gotta be Gobert but God damn. I kind of want to vote for Wemby and he was just way more impactful. He also averaged like 24, 10 and 5. 5. And the guy that he was competing, I think he's going against chat. His stats were just way better. Flag stats aren't way better than cons. But anyway, keep going.
- [105:40]
C
And then con is is handed the ball and to he. 80% of his shots are assisted. Right. And then for that number for. For coop is like 40 to 50.
- [105:49]
A
I know but I think there's more there with. I feel like they could have done more with con on that. Like I actually kind of liked when he would get around the foul line and be physical and try to like either take guys to the hoop or do that little pull up. I just think, I just think that team had a lot of masters to serve offensively whereas Dallas did not.
- [106:09]
C
I respect. I respect your take and like I said, Khan has a lot more shit to his game than I would ever expected. Off the bounce, getting rebounds, playing defense. This is not what I thought. So if you're. If the award were to find like who's the most surprising rookie. I mean if they redrafted Khan is probably third. I'm still taking Dylan Harper too. Third or fourth.
- [106:31]
A
Tough to pass Dylan Harper. It's. It's one of the. We did this the last time you were on. It's one of the great top fours we've had. So if you switch these guys on their teams.
- [106:45]
C
Yeah, let's do that.
- [106:47]
A
The Hornets are good. That's actually like he could have fit in. It's. It changes their style a little bit for that. Not, not the same kind of three point thing. But he's bringing defense, rebounding. He could probably like, he'd probably phase back from the offense a little and concentrate more on the glue guy stuff that he was so great at and is great at. And Khan is.
- [107:07]
C
Would give Charles Lee like his Jason Tatum character from his Boston era. Right. Like this giant forward who can break guys down, get you a rebound, play incredible defense.
- [107:18]
A
So I think if he and I think Khan would have had around the same stats. I just. He bet he probably would have taken more threes, maybe wouldn't have shot the same percentage because they wouldn't have been as good looks most of the time. I don't. I really hate this because I don't even want to pick between these guys. But my, my move over the Years has always been if. If winning is a tiebreaker, I got to think about it. It's not Flag's fault. He's on a shitty team.
- [107:43]
C
But do you think we can take Michael Carter Williams rookie of the year trophy and give it to whoever loses
- [107:49]
A
this year's and Tyreek Evans's? That would be another one. I take BJ Edgecomb third.
- [107:56]
C
God, I haven't even thought about that. Yes, definitely no vj I have to see. This is the one I have to do. Dylan Harper, VJ Edge come have you. Were those the two?
- [108:05]
A
It's not stats wise. It's not close. But Dylan Harper, you know, was just in a different situation.
- [108:11]
C
So I listened to Legs on your podcast who I. I thought did a great job. But yeah, he made the point. Well, if Dylan Harper's on the Wizards or whatever, he was seeing a lot more numbers.
- [108:21]
A
17 and 8 guy, at least. Yeah.
- [108:23]
C
So Dylan's dropped into a really healthy environment where he's the third guard and gets those minutes. But dude, you talk about a guy who's getting better and better and better. The case for Dylan is he's on a team that is is won 60 games. He too has become a much better shooter earlier than we thought.
- [108:41]
A
I kind of like him the most when he's out there with Castle and Vel Wemby and a shooter.
- [108:48]
C
It's not going to take long before he's the answer there.
- [108:52]
A
Most interesting, all rookie. I had flag con BJ Harper and I had Fears as my fifth guy. Fears. Fears played 82 games. Fears was. Was there the whole time. And I thought he had a couple games this year. We were like, wow, what's going on here? Second team. I had Coward, Ace Bryant, Queen and I guess Will Riley. I don't. I don't even know. I'll figure out the 10th guy. But who did you have as your fifth guy on the first team?
- [109:23]
C
Yeah, so I think it's like the MVVP race. There's four solid guys on the first group of five, but yeah, so we go Coupcon, VJ Harper and then I threw Joe Dumars a bone and put Derek Queen there because he gave up so much for him. You got to give him that. Right.
- [109:38]
B
Nice.
- [109:38]
C
Then Coward Fears, Ace Bailey, your guy Hugo Gonzalez and then Will Riley. So.
- [109:44]
A
Oh, that's who I'll put as my tenth guy.
- [109:46]
B
Hugo.
- [109:47]
A
Great.
- [109:48]
C
Is it Hugo or Hugo?
- [109:50]
A
Hugo, but I really want to call him Hugo. Clutch. Clutch. I'm going sga, Brunson and Jokic, in that order.
- [109:57]
C
I have the Exact same. It's sga and then a big gap.
- [110:00]
A
For me, Most improved is not a battle because it's going to be Nikhil Alexander Walker. Unless you haven't been watching the season. 9.4 points to 21. Got better as the year went along and is just a complete wild card threat for the playoffs now because he's an absolute heat check. He's even more than a heat check guy. He just kind of takes over games. So I had him first, I had Duran second, and I put K to third and I'll make the case for it in a second. What did. Who'd you have for your three?
- [110:34]
C
I have Nikhil by leaps and bounds. And then you said Duran was second.
- [110:40]
A
I had Duran second. Yeah.
- [110:42]
C
And then I put Castle there because I didn't. I didn't give Castle the award. And I know some people don't like the second team, second year jump thing. You might be one of those people I violently oppose.
- [110:53]
A
This is my least favorite Kirk Grillsberg moment of the podcast. He should be better this year. It's the second year. He's the fourth pick of the draft.
- [111:00]
C
I'm not mad at you, Bill, but that's the same ding I'm giving Jalen Duran like you're a lottery pick. Late lottery in his case. You're supposed to get better as you go through.
- [111:08]
A
Did you ever think he was going to be a 21 and 11 dominant center? I never did.
- [111:15]
C
I won't say I did. But the first time I saw him in person, it was one of those like, holy, look at that guy moments that you get in an NBA or
- [111:22]
A
he's now out of the 1990s. He's like, he looks like he's Alonzo Mourning or he looks like Ben Wallace. Yeah, he's the perfect Piston.
- [111:30]
C
He's the. I always say he's the perfect Piston, but ultimately, I think the story here is Nikhil Alexander Walker, who scored nine points a game last year for a
- [111:40]
A
very good team and was a stand in the corner and don't do anything else and we'll call you when we need a three.
- [111:45]
C
And then Atlanta gives him a nice deal, comes over 21 points a game on over 60% true shooting. So one of the only times in my career as an analyst in the NBA where I've seen somebody go from nine points a game to 20 points a game. And then their efficiency jumps, too. Yeah, like, that's, that's crazy. And for me, this is the easiest vote on the whole ballot, except for defensive player of the Year Nikhil Alexander Walker and a walk away.
- [112:11]
A
Couldn't agree more.
- [112:13]
C
Shout out to Atlanta. Great signing.
- [112:15]
A
The case for Keda. He played. He. First of all, he, this is his fifth NBA season. He'd never played more than 13 minutes a game.
- [112:23]
C
Yep.
- [112:24]
A
He turned this year into a 10 and 8 guy over a block a game. He's played 25 minutes a game. He's gotten better as the year went along. There's actually a little more offense to all the advanced metrics. Rim protection stuff with him is really solid. He's just a good player now. And it's something like you would watch him come in the first. Like, my daughter always loved him. She was like, why doesn't Keda play more? I was like, I, I don't know. But you'd watch him and he'd be like, there's something here. Yeah. But now this is somebody that conceivably could be playing 25 minutes a game in the finals. This was a team before the year where you're like, well, they're losing Porzingis and Horford, who's going to play center? I don't know.
- [113:08]
C
And Tatum's out and they have no rebounding. Yeah, I guess Garza, by the way.
- [113:12]
A
Yeah. And we lost Cornette. It's like, I guess Garza and this member Keita, I guess he's going to be there and turned into a real guy. And you watch these games. There was only a couple times this year where you kind of could feel this was a guy that was on Sacramento three years ago. For the most part, he was awesome for what the expectations were.
- [113:35]
C
And that's the key point. Dude. I remember this was the second apron casualty that they dismantled this team. I thought a year ago, I was like, okay, there goes Porzingis in Horford. Luke Cornett's cast away. Tatum's out. That's their front court. That's their championship front court. And I remember when I was looking into the Celtics season and I'll put my hand up, I was like, this team's not going to be able to rebound. This team is not going to be able to protect the rim. And that's where I would say kata deserves part of this conversation. They are now a very good rebounding team. It's part of their signature is turning missed shots into second chance points. He's the biggest reason for that and I did not see that coming ever for this young man. So hats off to him and that Celtic staff for finding him and developing him.
- [114:24]
A
They also, they redid, I mean they redid some strategy stuff with that with them. One of them was these little handoffs at the top of the key, which became like the bread and butter of their offense that he was just better at than Porzingis and Horford. And then the offensive rebounding was the other thing. He's just a good offensive rebounder. He's got good hands around the rim. So you really feel it when he's in the game. Like the best version of them usually is when he's in the game. I'll be interested to see against the Knicks right there in crunch time against Towns. Whether they go smaller with Tatum. I think they're saving that. And I could see Katie getting bounced or maybe Katie getting moved to the Mitchell Robinson portion of the game where it's like, just go toe to toe with this dude and try to hold him to a standstill. We'll see. Six man. I have Hawkes. I put Keldon Johnson second and then I have a wild card at third. Who'd you have?
- [115:15]
C
I only have two. I haven't figured out the third. I'll probably just steal yours. I'm a Kelton Johnson man. I thought know culturally he's great. The 162, 60 games he was in most of those games let all players and win shares off the bench. And again over h the Miami Hawkes. God, I just had a brain fart. The, the more substantial contribution in the, in the league this year off the bench was Kelton Johnson.
- [115:41]
A
I battled back and forth. I don't feel great about it, but I thought Hawke has basically been 15, five and five off the bench and he can't shoot three. But when you watch he's pretty impactful in an old school like 1970s, 80s. He's doing weird kind of half post ups or he's trying to beat guys off and he's banging into dudes. He's one of those guys. He's one of those guys. When you're watching him, you're going, could this guy have his own team? But obviously he can't. But he'll have moments where like, man, great Heat player.
- [116:17]
C
I remember when they drafted him, it was all it was. This is what we were. We knew we were getting it and they got it.
- [116:23]
A
My third pick for this category and there's a million, there's a million people that the, the, the shame of it is Pritchard should have been a six man, but he started too many games.
- [116:33]
C
Yep.
- [116:35]
A
I went with Mamu. Oh, wow. Yeah.
- [116:39]
C
I'm not stealing this. You're going to have to convince me.
- [116:42]
A
22 minutes a game. He was 11 and 5. He was a 52, 39, 75 guy. His advanced stats are nuts and eye test wise I actually thought he probably should have played more. I feel like he would. He was one of the only bench guys I thought this season that consistently he would come into their bench was the biggest reason they started out well the first, first month and a half but he would come into games and I felt like he would take over games for like two minutes. That's and it's. And I think like if you're just talking about like a pure six man coming off the bench swinging a game, he did it as well as anyone I saw this year and I couldn't come up with a I, I couldn't shake that. He was the third best guy I saw do that this year. So that's who I have. Who did you have in your possibilities?
- [117:37]
C
Reed Shepherd I feel like is the choice. Right. But now he started 10 games.
- [117:42]
A
I couldn't get there with Reed because I don't feel like his coach was like, ah, I don't know if we should play him for six months.
- [117:49]
C
Well, he should be fifth man of the year. To, to piggyback on Wild's point, why don't we just have a first man, second man, third man. Reed shepherd should be fifth man of the year. Ema, if you're listening.
- [118:00]
A
So Reed was the other one. I just couldn't get there. I, I don't know.
- [118:04]
C
It is weird because the predicament in Houston is so weird. I mean in a world where Freddie Van Fleet is there and Steven Adams is there, Reed is definitely like the heat check guy off the bench and they didn't figure out. I think so, yeah.
- [118:17]
A
All right. I don't feel great about the mamu, but I just, I don't know. The heart wants what the heart wants.
- [118:25]
C
The heart wants mama. All right.
- [118:27]
A
Mvp.
- [118:29]
C
Oh boy.
- [118:30]
A
So we have Luka four. We both have Luka four.
- [118:35]
C
Yeah, I have Luka clearly four.
- [118:37]
A
So Luka's bounce. I am going. It's interesting because I had Donovan Mitchell first, Seymour, NBA. But for mvp, I'm putting Brunson fifth and Jalen Brown fourth. That's what I have. Just because that Knicks team, for better and worse is just built around Brunson having to put a superhero cape on for the last five minutes of every game. Where's the Cat Cavs can get. I don't know. It's just I'm basically splitting the vote with Mitchell as first two mombay but Brunson in my MVP bout. So that's what I have for 4 and 5 without Luka. I have Wemby third, I have Joker second and I landed on SGA first and I switched SJ and Joker all weekend and really wanted to do Joker and ultimately like the wind difference and how great SGA was in the clutch.
- [119:40]
C
Yeah,
- [119:44]
A
I just felt like as you know, I love Joker and Joker's probably my favorite non Celtic in the league other than Curry. And I just felt like I want to do this correctly. There's too much SGA evidence. I feel like I'm not. If I do Joker, it's almost like a personal pick versus like what's the right pick. I just couldn't 100% get there. The real problem if Joker hadn't gotten hurt, I think he gets it because not only did he miss all those games, but then he came back and he wasn't a hundred percent when he came back. And you know, and the other thing was the clutch stuff with that team just in general not taking care of business near the end, that's kind of his job and they weren't good enough. Whereas SGA like every time, last three minutes, he just took care of business and I think his job was easier because of that team. They're so good defensively. All he has to worry about is basically let me just be awesome and get to the foul line and then the last three minutes I'll score every point. Not an easy job. Whereas Joker was doing everything but to not vote for a guy who led the league in rebounds and assists and was sixth in points and did all the shit he did and had the best offensive career. Career. I don't feel good about it.
- [120:59]
C
I don't think anybody's going to do this with the respect that the task deserves. Is going to feel good about who's third and in some cases who's second.
- [121:06]
B
Yeah.
- [121:07]
C
This is the deepest one of these I've ever thought of. Like we have three legitimate candidates for mvp.
- [121:13]
A
We do.
- [121:14]
C
And we have better numbers than ever. I'll start with 4 and 5. I have the same Jaylen shout out to Jaylen Rose. By the way, big, big year for Jaylen's on the MVP back ballot. Now we have two of them on our our top five. I have Joker third, which is crazy. But again, Bill, my ladder is going to be informed a lot by how the standings turned out, you know, and I think that deserves respect here. And so I have Wemby second, which was Hard, by the way, not a homer pick. I, I wanted to put him first. Other times I wanted to put him third. And then I also ended up with sgi. I mean, he's just. The team is too good. He is on, as you keep pointing out so astutely, one of the best runs we've ever seen from a guard in the history of the sport.
- [121:59]
B
Yeah.
- [122:00]
C
Once again, here we are with a net rating over 11. They're just the most dominant team in the NBA and he's it. But Joker, dude, let me, let me give him some flowers. I was looking at on off splits like all the nerds do when, when it's time to do this exercise size.
- [122:18]
A
Yeah.
- [122:18]
C
The Nuggets are -7 in net rating when he's off the floor. Like, that's, that's a lottery team, Bill. They're, they're, they're.
- [122:28]
A
They.
- [122:28]
C
They have the statistical profile of the Utah Jazz.
- [122:32]
A
No, no. Gordon half the year. Cam Johnson not really healthy most of the year. You lose Peyton Watson. This was why, when I was thinking this weekend whether I was going to vote for him or not, and I was like, I'm definitely the one thing. He played 400 more minutes than Wimy. And when Wemby skipped the last game of the year, which I just thought was really weird, that to me, like, he, he put himself in the third spot because they should have tried to win that game and get Denver the fuck out of the three seed. Like, what are you guys doing? Take them out.
- [123:01]
C
First homer. I couldn't agree more. I. I was perplexed by that.
- [123:05]
A
Wemby played 1866 minutes this year. He played 29 minutes a game and he missed, I thought, a fair enough amount of games that he probably could have showed up for the 82nd one and tried to knock him out. I just, I didn't like that. Joker led the league in PR for his sixth straight year. 31 plus every year. Second straight triple double season. He's with Wilt now. As I talked about the other day with Wilt was fourth first and second and fifth first and third. So if you add that up, less than 10. Joker was 8. 1 and 1. So 10 offensive rating they 126. When he played, he led the league in rebounds, assists, PR and VORP 10.8 net. His highest usage ever, 57% shooting. Like really one of the great offensive seasons and somehow didn't win the mvp. And I can't believe it, but their record wasn't good enough. Sga.
- [124:01]
B
Like,
- [124:03]
A
I don't know There was a lot of close games when he just took care of business at the end. I think that has to matter, the consistency of it. And then from some of my MVP questions, you know, one of them is how you remember the year. One of the ways we're going to remember this year is OKC becoming a little villainy and SJ and the foul baiting that was a big part of the season. Whereas for Joker it was another great Joker year. I don't really, you know, stats that was good but we're really going to remember Wemby and sga. I think before just it was a typically unbelievable Joker year. It didn't really stand out from the other three, I guess.
- [124:41]
C
I think that's right. And I remember you doing those questions with Legler and he was. His knee jerk reaction was Wemby. For me, that's it to that question. The minutes thing with Wemby is really fascinating. Right. Because you and I both agree on one big thing. There's too many games and what the spurs have to do with this dude is try to keep him upright and get, get him into the playoffs. And again I thought Mitch Johnson did a great job. Yeah, Victor Wembanyama is healthy. I wish they would have played him game 82 by the way. But healthy going into these playoffs. That's the number one job in, in a, in an era of calf strains and hamstring injuries. Like just be thankful we have Wimby. So I almost don't to want, want to ding Victor for minutes because that's, that's what's going to happen with him his whole career in the regular season. As long as we're playing 82 games and 16 back to backs or whatever it is in the NBA cup that they win. Went in and played the extra game in
- [125:40]
A
well.
- [125:40]
C
So sga, SGA deserves credit for having a better record, better statistical indicators and you know, ultimately like you said said just the most impressive end to end season of a high volume player in
- [125:55]
A
the NBA and not having J Dub for most of the year. Plus 16.3 net, 9.0 free throws a game, made 7.9 free throws a game which was first clutch points, 175 points, first 59 free throws in the clutch, shot 52% field goal in the clutch. Um, there's also some games where they just killed teams and he didn't really play. Actually I think he could have been around 33 minutes a game if some of their games have been closer. Last four years he's 31 a game last two years, OKC is 133 and 31. I think that's correct. But 31 losses. And he's the biggest reason by far. When you know that night after night, night your guy, it's a little. It's. It's the rich man's version of what Jalen did for the Celtics. You know, night after night, I'm getting this from my best player. At the end of the games, I'm getting this and I'm just. And I know I have that every game with you throwing the win totals and the minutes. He should. He should be the mvp.
- [127:06]
C
And the defensive.
- [127:06]
A
I can't believe Jokic isn't going to win though. I just can't believe it.
- [127:10]
C
I was telling my students earlier, I was like, if you would have told me that, somebody would have. John Stockland amount of assists and Dennis Rodman amount of rebounds when I was growing up.
- [127:19]
A
That's insane. Have nothing in common with one another. You just shouldn't lead the league in both of those categories.
- [127:25]
C
In fact, they're. They usually happen in different parts of the floor. Like, it's crazy that. That he's like. I don't think people are talking about that enough. Yeah, this is definitely gotta be the best season of anybody who's ever finished third.
- [127:37]
B
Third.
- [127:38]
C
If he finishes third, I think he's
- [127:40]
A
going to finish second. But we'll see. I think it's.
- [127:43]
C
For me, Bill, is. The defensive stuff is insane. I get it. So the Brooklyn Nets are the worst shooting team in the NBA. Okay. They're tanking. Their effective field goal percentage is 52 30th in the NBA. When Victor Weyama was on the court this year, opponents had an EFG of 48 or 49.49.7. So he essentially turns your offense into a tanking level offense just by being on the court. I wish we had better metrics in our discourse for evaluating defensive impact. Cause we're always citing things like points, rebounds, assist, triple doubles. And that's going to favor Joker and sga. It's really challenging us to quantify the impact of Victor on defense because that's going to be his case for years to come. And we have to get better. I'll take it on on as me. I have to do better to articulate his greatness on the defensive end of the floor.
- [128:35]
A
What's that commercial they're like? Yep. Nope.
- [128:39]
C
That's the E40 song choices the Bay Area. That's a Chipotle commercial. Yeah.
- [128:45]
A
That always makes me think of Wimy when the guys. The guy's driving in the basket like, nope, just jumping a triple back out. Now it's gotten to the point where the guys don't even consider it. No, they're starting to move. It's like, oh yeah, I can't do that today because we're playing the spurs and they just reset. If Denver had gotten. I was trying to figure out how many wins they would have had to have for me to flip my vote and I think it's form. They're 54 and 28. I think if they'd gotten a 58 and 24, I think I would have voted for Yoko. Just dumb as that sounds. 10 wins behind OKC with the same kind of season where Aaron Gordon's out for half the year. So is J Dub. Yeah, OKC's team's obviously better, but I just, I weirdly felt like Denver should have won more games than they did and he's got to get dinged on that too. They finished with a 12 game winning streak and still were on the 54 and 28.
- [129:42]
C
But they, I know that was a. And they beat the spurs in the game of the year like it was. That was an MVP moment where he hit that fade away over Wemby.
- [129:49]
A
They had a stretch 39 game stretch where they were 19 and 20 and I think that kills him but I can't believe he's not going to to win. We'll see if he finishes second. I think SJ is going to win and we'll see between Wemby and Jaylen Brown. All right, Kurt Goldsberry, see you soon. What's your. Do you have a playoff upset?
- [130:13]
C
I, if I had to pick an upset I got two candidates. It's Minnesota, Denver because we've seen it before. But I think Atlanta, New York is really interesting if, if, if Atlanta can find offense beyond CJ McCollum.
- [130:30]
A
I think Denver's going to beat Minnesota and I actually like that. So many people, including myself are scared of Minnesota in the series because they've had so much success. Yeah, I, I think a fun zag is actually Denver's going to kick their ass. Atlanta is the one I'm looking at. I wonder is there. I, I just wish Toronto wasn't so lousy against basically every good team. I wish, wish everyone's just penciling Cleveland in for that series and I don't trust them at all. Cause I don't think they can. I just think they give up points to everybody. And if Toronto. The question for me is I just don't think Toronto's good enough offensively to haunt them. But Cleveland, if Atlanta didn't play Cleveland, I think I would have picked Atlanta in that series. Like, for real.
- [131:14]
C
Atlanta is Atlanta has all the makings of a team that is, you know, if you look at the game the way I do, analytical, they look like the best statistical profile of any team that's an underdog right now in the last three months of the season, with the exception of maybe Charlotte, who we'll find out shortly if they're even in the tournament.
- [131:33]
A
Yeah, that'll be the top of the pot in the time machine. I think Atlanta takes the Knicks to seven and loses because of their bench. I don't like their bench. I think that's they played a hell
- [131:43]
C
of a game the other night.
- [131:43]
A
Yeah, their bench is like, you just never know night tonight. All right, Kurt Goldsberry, pleasure as always. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget about Legata, our new narrative podcast, which has cocaine in Miami and Columbia and all kinds of great stuff. You should check it out. Kurt Goldsberry, New rewatchables coming on Monday is going to be Kindergarten Cop with me and Kyle Brandt and I will see you all on Thursday. Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 on President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. No purchases necessary. Limit one entry for profit boost Token opt in required Must apply Profit Boost token on select market restrictions apply. See full terms, including methods of entry, at sportsbook.fanduel.com gamble problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY reset. Call 888-797-777 or visit ccpg.orgchattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-88-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer@columbia columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia Engineered for whatever a text says, you're on my mind. A bouquet from 1-800-Flowers says, you're my everything. Heartfelt moments belong in the real world, not just your phone. For 50 years, 1-800-Flowers has helped millions of people make memories that'll last a lifetime with gifts they'll cherish for hours. Forever. Their expertly curated arrangements and gift baskets shipped nationwide with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Don't wait for the next big moment. Make it when you visit 1-800flowers, com Spotify today, that's 1,800flowers, com Spotify.