My Mother’s Lies | 4. Telling Tales

Summary

The Binge Cases: My Mother's Lies | Episode 4: "Telling Tales"

Host: Beth Karras (Sony Music Entertainment)
Release Date: April 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In "Telling Tales," the complex and often contradictory citizen investigation of the Jessica Currin murder case takes center stage. Host Beth Karras guides listeners through the dangerous partnership between Susan Galbraith—a determined yet unorthodox local sleuth and mother of Ray McCord—and Kentucky law enforcement. The episode exposes the tangled web of Susan's evolving theory about suspect Quincy Cross, and the repercussions of her deep involvement—ranging from covert recorded meetings to the manipulation of witness statements. Amid conflicting accounts and shifting alliances, Karras raises critical questions about the power civilians can wield in criminal investigations and the truthfulness of those who claim to uncover it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Susan’s Confrontation with Quincy Cross (00:54, 35:42)

• Setup: February 20, 2005, Susan—now actively supported by Kentucky State Police—prepares to confront Quincy Cross, whom she believes killed Jessica Currin.
• Officers are nearby, ready to intervene if Susan uses a code phrase.
• The Attempted Sting: Susan uses a cell phone disguised listening device. She tries to bait Quincy with the offer of $500 for participating in a documentary and a chance to clear his name—hoping he'll slip and confess.
  • Quote (Tom Mangold, 05:48): "She pulled it off. She didn't get a full confession, but she got an interview which contained self incriminating remarks. She'd made more progress in a day than the police agencies have made in five years."
• Outcome: Quincy doesn't confess; audio is muddled and unclear. Susan claims he made incriminating comments, but the tape doesn't support her version.

2. The Police-Citizen Sleuth Collaboration (07:39, 08:14, 09:02, 09:52)

• Detective Jamie Mills' Introduction: Mills inherited the cold case and quickly realized Susan had access to transcripts and documents absent from the official file.
  • Mills: "I need to use this lady. She's got stuff that I don't have." (09:02)
• Susan's Unique Access: Unemployed, constantly mingling, collecting evidence and transcripts, Susan becomes the unofficial hub for tips and case details.
• Boundaries Blurred: Susan claims she's collecting DNA for Mills and even touts a potential PI business with him. Mills refutes these aspirations, calling them Susan's fantasy (13:41).
• Questions on Informant Status: Susan’s son, Ray, claims she received consistent payments from law enforcement, possibly as an informant (14:22).

3. Origins of the ‘Quincy Theory’ and Narrative Shift (16:00, 17:10, 18:01, 18:15)

• Susan's Story Emerges: Susan writes a vivid, speculative scenario placing Quincy at the center of the crime, involving details such as belts, gasoline, and sexual motive—a significant alteration from the existing investigative leads.
• Media Complicity: British journalist Tom Mangold publishes an article naming Quincy and Austin Leech as prime suspects and exonerating Jeremy Adams—reaching conclusions unsupported by direct evidence.
• Red Flags: Pulitzer-winning journalist Maggie Freeling highlights how the sexual assault angle originated only in Susan and Tom’s narratives:
  • Maggie Freeling (18:15): "The first time we heard of a sexual assault was from Susan Galbraith and Tom mangled in their emails. Up until then, four years in sexual assault was never mentioned. There’s no evidence of it. It says that in her autopsy."
• Consequences: The unproven assumptions become embedded in public perception and investigative focus.

4. Tensions with Law Enforcement: Changing of the Guard (21:43, 22:29)

• Detective Steger Replaces Mills: Steger is less accommodating, prompting contention with Susan, who expects to steer the case as before.
  • Karras (22:15): "It’s immediately clear that Detective Steger wasn’t going to work with her the way Detective Mills had."
• Breakdown of Communication: Susan presses Steger on lapsed communication; he’s less interested in Susan’s leads, signaling a shift back to formal investigative procedure.

5. The Jeremy Adams Confessions & Recantations (24:29, 25:01, 28:07, 29:24)

• Jeremy’s Version(s) of Events:
  • Adams claims Quincy confessed to the murder and provides a detailed scenario eerily similar to Susan’s hypothesis.
    • Jeremy Adams (25:35): "{Quincy said} something about putting a belt around her neck and dragging her across the concrete."
  • Jeremy fails a polygraph, then further implicates himself before ultimately admitting his story was constructed from discussions with Susan and from case discovery documents.
• Host Reaction: Karras expresses disbelief at the circular, self-affirming narrative between Susan, Jeremy, and the investigation:
  • Karras (27:21): "The original suspect randomly comes up with a new story that just happens to match, almost word for word, Susan’s version. Then he fails a polygraph, panics, implicates himself before Susan, then steps back in to course correct for him. This is just unreal. Unbelievable. Not credible."

6. Susan’s Attempted ‘Confession Capture’ and its Fallout (35:42, 37:15, 38:16, 39:18, 40:07)

• February 20, 2005, Revisited: Host replays Susan and Lacey's anticipation and the lead-up to the recorded confrontation with Quincy.
• Recording Debrief: Susan and Lacey debrief with Steger. Susan insists Quincy incriminated himself by referencing ‘the rest of the gas’ and his willingness to “choke” women—yet these are not audible.
  • Lacey Gates (39:18): "I wouldn’t hit no woman. Now, I’ll choke one. I’ll strangle one."
• Detective’s Doubt: Steger can’t make out these statements; the recording is insufficient for evidence.
• Susan’s Shifting Claims: Over time, Susan adds further claims—such as Quincy referencing the specific kind of belt used in the murder—but these aren’t on tape.

7. Competing Narratives, Coercion Allegations & Ongoing Uncertainty (41:31, 42:00, 42:11, 42:56, 43:26)

• New Testimonies Emerge: Other witnesses (often in jail) alternately point to Jeremy Adams as Jessica's killer, further muddling the narrative.
• Witness Coercion: Host previews that several Susan-sourced witnesses later claim they were pressured to implicate Quincy.
  • Tom Mangold (43:11): "Every time the story is not going to the Susan Galba script, then the tape was turned off. Then they come back on again and it’s back on the Susan Galbraith script."
  • Unidentified witness (43:26): "They was forcing me to say Quincy had something to do with it. And that’s no lie."
• Investigation Standstill: Without clear, supporting evidence, Susan’s campaign to pin the murder on Quincy falters as official attention again turns elsewhere.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Mangold Summarizes Susan’s ‘Triumph’
  [05:48]: “She pulled it off. She didn’t get a full confession, but she got an interview which contained self incriminating remarks…”

• Ray on Susan’s Police Connection
  [14:22]: “She was getting money. She would get like two or three grand every now, every. Every other month or every couple, whatever... I think my mom was an informant for the police...”

• Maggie Freeling Points Out Dangerous Narrative Shifting
  [18:15]: “The first time we heard of a sexual assault was from Susan Galbraith and Tom mangled in their emails... There is no evidence of a sexual assault. It says that in her autopsy.”

• Host Beth Karras Calls Out ‘Unbelievable’ Recantation Cycle
  [27:21]: "The original suspect randomly comes up with a new story that just happens to match, almost word for word, Susan’s version... This is just unreal. Unbelievable. Not credible."

• Lacey Gates on Susan’s Accusation Style
  [39:18]: "I wouldn’t hit no woman now. I’ll choke one. I’ll strangle one."
  [Her paraphrasing what Susan says Quincy admitted.]

• Mangold on Interview Manipulation
  [43:11]: "Every time the story is not going to the Susan Galba script, then the tape was turned off. Then they come back on again and it’s back on the Susan Galbraith script."

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Timeline/Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:54: Susan prepares to confront Quincy Cross.
• 05:48: Tom Mangold claims Susan gets self-incriminating remarks from Quincy.
• 07:39 - 09:52: Detective Mills explains why he collaborated with Susan, highlighting her access to unique information.
• 10:46 & 12:48: Susan shares her working relationship and activities with Mills; Mills later contradicts her.
• 14:22: Ray McCord discusses Susan’s possible informant status.
• 16:00 - 18:15: Susan's narrative about Quincy is created and broadcast via UK press; Maggie Freeling debunks key elements.
• 21:43: Susan’s access is restricted after Steger replaces Mills.
• 24:29 - 28:07: Jeremy Adams’ evolving confessions and subsequent recantations, matching Susan’s theories.
• 35:42: The confusing, muffled recording of Susan’s ‘sting’ meeting with Quincy.
• 39:18: Lacey claims Quincy “confessed”—a statement not supported by the tape.
• 41:31 - 42:11: Other inmates offer contradictory witness statements, naming Jeremy as killer.
• 43:11: Tom Mangold criticizes the apparent scripting of witness interviews.
• 43:26: Witnesses allege coercion to implicate Quincy.

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Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

Beth Karras maintains a skeptical, incisive tone, questioning both the efficacy and ethics of Susan’s unsanctioned involvement. There’s a persistent sense of frustration throughout—as witnesses' stories morph to fit Susan’s narrative, police support ebbs and flows, and the official investigation remains clouded by hearsay and amateur speculation. This episode paints a compelling, troubling picture of how true crime obsessions and local rumors can upend lives and investigations, and leaves listeners bracing for further revelations about witness coercion and law enforcement missteps.

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Next Time Tease

Karras hints that the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation, influenced by Susan's activism, becomes directly involved, with new and possibly coerced witnesses coming forward—foreshadowing further chaos and controversy in the search for Jessica Currin’s killer.

Transcript

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's 4:55pm on Sunday, February 20, 2005. It's been four and a half years since Jessica Curran's murder and nine months since journalist Tom Mangold returned to England, leaving local citizen sleuth Susan Galbraith in charge of their investigation into Jessica's murder. Susan is in a car with her best friend, Lacey Gates. They pull up to a small one story house in a black residential area in North Mayfield. Lacey turns off the engine. The two women sit in silence for a moment. They triple check that it's the right address. Susan inhales deeply and stuffs a packet of cigarettes into her pocket. She's nervous and fidgety. The 45 year old citizen sleuth looks her friend in the eye one last time before they both step out of the car. This is it. In the past, Susan wore a wire, one she got herself without any police involvement. But not this time. Today she's carrying a listening device disguised as a cell phone and the Kentucky State Police gave it to her. This time they're actively supporting her covert activities. In fact, they'll be listening themselves. Officers are positioned nearby, ready for the signal from her should things go south. If Susan says the words I wish my big brother was here, they'll come charging in. Today, Susan is confronting the man she believes murdered Jessica Curran, Quincy Cross. It's a move that journalist Tom Mangold thinks is a step too far. In fact, Tom was furious when he'd heard Susan's plan. You see, it's not just that Susan and Tom believe Quincy to be a cold blooded killer. They believe that for the past few months, Quincy has been stunned, stalking Susan. She's been telling people he was showing up at her house, staring at her dead eyed from afar. Which is weird if you think about it, because he lives in a different state. Susan later wrote to Tom saying, quote, I guess he was playing around with the idea of doing me in and needed to see how vulnerable I was. Had Quincy gotten wind of their investigation? Was he hoping to intimidate Susan, creep her out and get her to give up? At any rate, Susan stepped up to his door and rang the bell.

[Susan Galbraith]

Hey, Quincy.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Quincy had been expecting Susan, but not Lacey. After a moment's hesitation, he invites them both inside. The house belongs to his cousin. The house is small and echoey. A TV blares loudly in the background. Quincy's watching over two toddlers who are sitting on a sofa beside him. Susan sizes him up. Late 20s, black male, mustache, slightly grown out. He's smaller than she imagined. He's friendlier too. As the door closes behind her, Susan begins to explain their visit.

[Susan Galbraith]

I am working for that guy, the journalist, and I can't swear to this, but I think that he is paying like $500 per person that is signing

[Commercial Announcer]

up for his documentary.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's tough to make out, but you can just about follow Susan's opening pitch that she's working with a journalist. That'd be Tom on a documentary that Quincy could be paid $500 if he chooses to participate. But more importantly, it would also be a chance to clear she's playing a very dangerous game. But she keeps Tom's advice in mind. Quote, no one ever confesses. The best you can do is to try and con them into saying something they should not have revealed. She needs to convince him to talk

[Susan Galbraith]

because I've talked to a lot of people now, of course. No, I mean the words felt around him.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Susan says she's talked to a lot of people. She mentions the belt found at the crime scene and the fact Quincy was found reeking of gasoline the night of Jessica's murder. The facts as she sees them that point to Quincy as the prime suspect. Her hope is that he'll react and give away some crucial detail that only the killer would know. Years later, Tom will present this as Susan's moment of triumph.

[Tom Mangold]

She pulled it off. She didn't get a full confession, but she got an interview which contained self incriminating remarks. She'd made more progress in a day than the police agencies have made in five years.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

But in reality, at the time, even Susan realized it wasn't the home run she'd been hoping for.

[Lacey Gates]

And I was just trying to go through my mind because it didn't go nothing like I wanted it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

And yet whatever doubt Susan had leaving Quincy by the time she sat down with the cops her confidence was restored. In fact, she. She doubled down. Quincy was their guy.

[Lacey Gates]

When he said, I wouldn't hit no woman, now I'll choke one, I'll strangle one.

[Commercial Announcer]

And that's what he said.

[Lacey Gates]

And I looked at Lacey and just out of nervousness, I was sitting there shaking, and I was just. I moved my hands around trying to play it off, you know, but, I mean, I wasn't scared of him or nothing like that. But it's just. I just know he killed this girl. I just know he did. I know he did.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

From Sony Music Entertainment and message heard. You're listening to my mother's lies. I'm Beth Karras. This is episode four Telling Tales. Let's now go back nine months earlier, when Tom and Susan's 10 day whirlwind investigation was first suggested. The name Quincy Cross. If you remember, before Tom returned to England, they shared their Quincy theory with the Kentucky State Police, along with the entirety of the documents they'd collected from Jeremy, his lawyer, and the disgruntled ex cop. The person who took possession of their case file was Kentucky State Police lead detective Jamie Mills.

[Detective Jamie Mills]

So Susan was. I don't even know where she came from, kind of out of the blue. When I first got the case, I think maybe she had called the State Police post or something. And I kind of thought, well, we'll see what this lady's got to say. And she was basically her own little private investigator.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's understandable that Detective Mills listened to Susan's theories and reviewed her files. After all, it's not like the official investigation was hurtling towards a speedy conclusion. Susan was relieved to find Detective Mills receptive to her phone calls.

[Detective Jamie Mills]

I think it's because no one else listened to her. I thought she had a wealth of information, you know, because she. She had nothing else to do. She didn't have a job, you know, so she was always just mingling in the community. And to me, that's how you found anything out. You just had to mingle.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Don't forget. What the State Police originally received from the local Mayfield cops was a thin case file for a murder investigation. It seemed incomplete. So when Susan started handing over official documents they hadn't seen, including the discovery materials from Jeremy Adams, plus her own original recordings and reports. Well, Detective Mills would later say it himself to Tom Mangold. He felt he had to work with her.

[Detective Jamie Mills (Alternate)]

At first, I just thought Susan was kind of another one of those nosy people in town that wanted to try to get something out of me, you know, but she had a lot of information. And I thought, hey, I need to use this lady. She's got stuff that I don't have. Because I think she had gotten it from Jeremy's lawyer or something. And it was stuff that wasn't in the case file.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

As it turned out, some of the most important items Susan shared were from Jeremy's lawyer. The typed up transcriptions of all the police interviews conducted for the original investigation. You see, the state police had all of the tapes, dozens of them. They just hadn't transcribed them yet. But Susan not only had the transcriptions, she knew how to navigate them. Here she is speaking years later, boasting of that fact.

[Susan Galbraith (Later Interview)]

Even though they had the tapes, they did not have the transcripts. So when I would be on the phone with them, I would say, check out this transcript on such and such page. I was actually giving them information they didn't have.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Why on earth the Mayfield police or the Kentucky State Police didn't just prepare their own transcripts, I have no idea. And rather than do that, they allowed Susan to direct them to what she considered critical and relevant portions. It's kind of nuts to me. As Susan started getting cozy with the state Police, she kept Tom informed via email, providing updates and seeking his assistance or advice on how to proceed. Right from the get go, she was excited that Detective Mills was willing to investigate Quincy Cross. Here's what she wrote to Tom in June 2004.

[Susan Galbraith (Email Reader)]

Hi, Tom. I just got a call from Mills. He told me he doesn't expect any arrest for at least a month. I'm working on getting a pic of Quincy Mills. Doesn't have one and in fact doesn't know what Q looks like either. I asked him to use his resources to get a mug shot or something from Tennessee if he has to, and he said he would.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

That email came shortly before her first stalking claim arose. Clearly, she didn't really know Quincy at all. She didn't even know what he looked like. According to Joe Curran, who started asking around himself, Quincy was just a small guy with a big mouth, but not someone obviously threatening Quincy Cross, from what I was told.

[Joe Curran]

I talked to two of my cousins that lived down and went to school with him. Two young ladies. They said he just thinks he's the big chief. He tried to play big in what he is like. He's tough and he ain't big as a minute. And the girl could probably whoop him is what they told me.

[Rachelle Cross]

He was very confident. He was humorous. He was just at the time a young man trying to find Himself back then.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

This is Quincy's sister Rachelle, recalling what Quincy was like back in the early 2000s, back before he knew who Susan Galbraith was or how his life would change after meeting her.

[Rachelle Cross]

He misses out on his family. He knows that he's really missed out on his family, watching his nephews and nieces and stuff grow up, his sisters grow up, you know, that he missed a big part of their life in which he really could have had an impact.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Rachelle knows Quincy wasn't perfect. In his youth, he'd been in trouble with the law. But in Susan's view, this was the man behind Jessica Curran's murder, and she was going to prove it. Through the summer of 2004, Susan's investigation continued with Detective Jamie Mills in close communication. In another email to Tom, Susan claims she was actually out in the field collecting DNA evidence for the state police.

[Susan Galbraith (Email Reader)]

Mills just left here. He came to pick up the DNA samples we got on V. I asked him if he thought an arrest would be made in the near future.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Now, this part really floored me. In my time as a prosecutor and legal consultant, I've seen investigators use a lot of different methods to collect evidence. But allowing a citizen sleuth to collect items for DNA analysis, I mean, what. So we have to bear in mind that this is all Susan's point of view. This is her representation of her relationship with Detective Mills. She even claimed in one email that she was planning on starting a private investigator business with Detective Mills. When our producer, Alice, managed to get a brief interview with him recently, he had a different take. Susan considered you a dear friend, and she said that you were going to start a PI business together. Is that.

[Detective Jamie Mills]

That's what she wanted? Yeah, that's what she wanted. But it's not true.

[Joe Curran]

No.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Reading Susan's emails, it does feel like she may have been prone to inventing things. Perhaps she just let her imagination get the better of her. But it's possible she misconstrued how things really were. That's worth keeping in mind as we continue unpacking her story. There's no doubt Susan and Mills were working closely together. And he was open to her Quincy theory. He said so himself. In fact, Susan's son Ray even thinks his mom's police access was by official arrangement and that it paid well.

[Ray (Susan's Son)]

She was getting money. She would get like two or three grand every now, every. Every other month or every couple, whatever.

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser / Other Commercial]

That wasn't disability.

[Ray (Susan's Son)]

No. Her wouldn't have. Hers wouldn't have been that much.

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Ray (Susan's Son)]

I think my mom was an informant for the police and I think she was. I think they were probably one of her go tos for information on the street. She was getting funds from them to do whatever she needed to, you know, to be done. If she needed something, she would call them, try to get it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Lawyers and private investigators have tried to get the authorities to confirm or deny if Susan was a paid informant, but without success. Some have confirmed that she was an informant or used to encourage witness cooperation. But that's all we know for sure. By this point, Susan's investigation was gaining momentum. She and Tom are in contact by phone and email. Tom is preparing to publish an article in the British Press reporting on their ongoing investigation into what is now a four year old cold case. But for all of Susan's sleuthing, they still only hold fragments of evidence, contradictory witness statements and conflicting timelines. Over a series of emails, Susan begins sketching out a possible version of events that flip fits all the puzzle pieces together. We've summarized a little for brevity and for decency, just to warn you, her account gets pretty graphic. The version that emerges goes like this.

[Susan Galbraith (Email Reader)]

Austin and Quincy are riding around in the Cadillac looking for girls when they run into Venetia and Jessica. Quincy is in the back and starts touching and groping Jessica who tries to fight him off. At this point, Benisha gets scared and asks to be let out of the car. Jessica continues to resist, maybe hits back a bit too hard and Quincy starts beating her, even choking her with his belt. She passes out. They then drive back to Chris Drive where they transfer the unconscious Jessica to the blue Pontiac. Austin grabs the gas can from his own car, then they head back out. They're deciding where to dump her body when Jessica regains consciousness and leaps from the car. Quincy and Austin grab a bat and chase after her, beating and strangling her before using the gas to burn the body.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Now at this point, Susan's version of events doesn't align with the official timeline of the murder, witness statements or the Chris Drive call logs that place Quincy at the house until at least 5:30am but nonetheless, the story, though I'd call it a fantasy, take shape and Tom runs with it. In October 2004, a newspaper in the UK published his first article. In the article he declared Jeremy Adams as innocent and named Austin Leech and Quincy Cross as the primary suspects in Jessica's murder. He focused on the gas and the belt elements of Susan's story and the issue of the two cars. It's also the first time the case was presented as a sexually motivated attack.

[Maggie Freeling]

The exact quote from Tom was quincy suggested a sexual predator on cocaine.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

This is Maggie Freeling, Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist who's been reporting on the story.

[Maggie Freeling]

The first time we heard of a sexual assault was from Susan Galbraith and Tom mangled in their emails. Up until then, four years in sexual assault was never mentioned. There's no evidence of it. There is no evidence of a sexual assault. It says that in her autopsy.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

For Maggie, this shift in the Quincy Cross narrative and the investigation was a red flag that something was wrong.

[Maggie Freeling]

You know, they come up with this, well, her underwear wasn't on her, so oh my gosh, there must have been an assault. And that's where the story starts. And that's when I realized Susan had a hand in this because this was not part of the investigation up until then.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

We'll hear more from Maggie and her investigation later on. But honestly, aside from accuracy of the information, I just can't understand how a newspaper could have published this to essentially exonerate one suspect, then announce new suspects in an active murder investigation. In any case, by the fall of 2004, their theory is now out in the world. It feels like the net is closing around Susan's main suspect. So imagine when, to Susan's horror, Detective Mills, her friend and collaborator, is suddenly removed from the case, apparently for reasons unrelated to the current investigation. But it's a massive blow to Susan, who described herself as, quote, devastated, since he was, quote, the only local police officer who was on the track of the right killers. With detective Mills off the case, Susan not only lost her unique access to the official investigation, her whole case against Quincy was in jeopardy.

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Following the departure of Detective Mills, Susan's access to the state's investigation is uncertain. She soon learns that a new detective named Sam Steger has been assigned to the case. Here's a recording of an early telephone call between them.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hello? Susan? Yes. Hey, this is Stan. How are you? I'm fine. I'm surprised I hadn't heard from you. I'm sorry? I said I've been surprised. I haven't heard anything from you. Well, I've been off. I hadn't been working any this week.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's immediately clear that Detective Steger wasn't going to work with her the way Detective Mills had. Susan is not happy here. She's asking the detective to justify why he hasn't called her yet.

[Commercial Announcer]

We had talked about two weeks ago when I talked about Quincy being in town. Right. And that we were supposed to meet that following day. Right. And I never heard from you. Yeah, well, I called. I called between nine and ten o' clock and I probably called three or four times and it was busy. I did not receive any call from the state at all on my caller id and I have not.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Now, I don't know about you, but listening to the way she speaks to a detective, I'm stunned. What starts as a disagreement turns into a three minute squabble. Susan's sense of entitlement is astounding. And worst of all, from Susan's point of view anyway, it seems as though Detective Steger intends to do his job Going back to the facts of the case and the original suspects. In December 2004, Detective Steger goes to speak with Jeremy Adams. Detective Steger walks into the law library at the Graves County Courthouse accompanied by a Graves county prosecutor. Waiting for them is 24 year old Jeremy Adams, currently an inmate at Eddyville Prison where he's serving time for assault and cocaine trafficking. Detective Steger thinks this is a routine sit down. A chance to cross check Jeremy's earlier statements, tighten timelines, confirm details. Instead, Jeremy has a brand new story. He announces to Detective Steger that he himself had tracked down Quincy Cross 10 months earlier in Mayfield regarding an apparently unrelated personal matter. According to Jeremy Quincy, a man he's never met had made a pass at his girlfriend net and he wanted to confront him about it. And according to Jeremy, Quincy then openly confessed to Jessica's murder.

[Jeremy Adams]

Quincy Cross is the one who admitted to me that. That he was. That he had killed her.

[Commercial Announcer]

How come they should have killed her?

[Jeremy Adams]

He didn't give me a reason why he killed her.

[Susan Galbraith]

You know,

[Commercial Announcer]

when did this happen? Tell you this.

[Jeremy Adams]

What day?

[Commercial Announcer]

Do you remember? What?

[Jeremy Adams]

I don't know what day.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

According to Jeremy's new story, Quincy shares explicit details with him. Details only a killer could have known.

[Jeremy Adams]

Both of them got in Austin Leach's car. Well, they was riding around or whatever. This is what I get back story. They was riding around it and they ran into Venetia, the girl's best friend.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Jeremy said Venetia and Jessica were picked up in the white Cadillac with Quincy and Austin and that at some point Quincy started to fight with Jessica in the backseat. The similarity to Susan's version, the one she wrote for Tom just a few months earlier, is uncanny, to say the least.

[Jeremy Adams]

That the fight was on it. Jessica at one point, the way he said it, she had got out and started running away from the car and he got out and chased after her, I guess. And he had mentioned to me he had a bat, something about putting a belt around her neck and dragging her across the concrete.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Given this remarkable revelation two days later, on December 9th, Jeremy agrees to sit for a polygraph test. But when asked about whether he had any involvement with Jessica's murder, he flunks and shows signs of deception. After failing the polygraph, Jeremy panics and in a tearful call to Steger, he requests another urgent meeting. When they sit down the following day, now this is December 11th. His story changes once more. This time he tells Detective Steger that he was in the car with Quincy and Austin. And now Lolo Saxton another one of the original suspects in Jessica's murder. So he's placing himself at the crime. Jeremy also claims that he got out of the vehicle shortly after they picked up Jessica. It's yet another twist. But this new version of the story doesn't get time to settle. According to Detective Steger's case report, by the time he arrived home from Jeremy's interview, there was a voicemail waiting for him. It's from Susan. Somehow she already knew what had happened and insisted Jeremy misspoke, that he was not at the crime scene that night.

[Susan Galbraith]

Sorry.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Okay. Like, the original suspect randomly comes up with a news story that just happens to match, almost word for word, Susan's version. Then he fails a polygraph, panics, implicates himself before Susan, then steps back in to course correct for him. This is just unreal. Unbelievable. Not credible. By January 2005, Jeremy returned to Detective Steger yet again, this time to officially recant his previous statement. But this time, he admits to something else. Jeremy tells Detective Steger that he's been talking extensively with Susan and using details from the discovery in his original case to make his story sound credible.

[Detective Sam Steger]

I had the whole motion of discovery. I have to be straight with you, man. I mean, if I had something to do with this case, trust me, the way I'm feeling right now, it would come out right now. That's how low I am. And I know that I was a suspect in the beginning, and I know that they could bring the case back up on me.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

So all this Quincy stuff was made up. And Jeremy's excuse because he was scared of being accused again. I can't imagine why. But this is exactly the risk with sharing those discovery documents. In a case that will be determined on the strength of witness statements. Having case information flying around makes it incredibly difficult for investigators to get to the truth. It's clear to me that the police should not consult Susan anymore. She certainly seems to be hindering the investigation, possibly even obstructing it. As for the detective Steger, Jeremy Adams, Susan Galbraith. Feedback loop. Well, there seems to be one more twist to it. In Detective Steger's final interview with Jeremy in January 2005, Jeremy asked the detective what the state police would need to convict the real killer of Jessica Curran.

[Detective Sam Steger]

What type of evidence do we need in order to make the arrest and gain the conviction?

[Commercial Announcer]

Well, I mean, I want somebody at me. This is what my main objective is right now. I want somebody on tape.

[Detective Sam Steger]

You want somebody on tape. So basically, you need a confession on tape or some involvement in names, basically on tape. That right there is enough to arrest and convict.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Okay, Detective Steger makes it clear he'd need a confession on tape. Which brings us back to the opening of this episode, with Susan meeting with Quincy, ready to covertly record the conversation, hoping for a confession.

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

We're back where we began on that morning of February 20, 2005, Susan's car was acting up and she needed to make sure her meeting with Quincy went according to plan. So she called on her friend Lacey Gates. Now, it's another name to keep track of, but this one is worth remembering. Lacey and Susan are really close best friends. Lacey was aware of Susan's investigation and had been helping out here and there, but but today she's about to be dragged into the heart of it. She didn't know Quincy herself, and at this point wasn't so convinced of Susan's theory. Despite Detective Steger's renewed interest in Jeremy Adams, he does agree to support Susan's attempt to record an interview with Quincy, who is still a person of interest after all. After collecting the recording devices from the state police post, they drove around to do a trial run with the support of the Kentucky State Police. It all seemed like a lot of fun to them, like they were playing cops. This is Lacey with Susan in 2012, recalling that day.

[Lacey Gates (Recollection)]

We start singing the songs and we're like, you know, going, bad boys, bad boys, what you want to do? What you gonna do when they come for you?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Bad boys. And then we did

[Lacey Gates (Recollection)]

Hawaii 5o, and then we start talking about the cops and one of the guys was really cute and we're like, oh yeah, he's so hot, I would so do him.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

When Lacey and Susan arrive back at the police post, they receive a reprimand for their unprofessional conduct.

[Lacey Gates (Recollection)]

We're laughing hysterically and one cop looks at us and he's like, ladies, this needs to be way more professional. We heard every conversation that you guys had in the comments.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Car embarrassed, the two women drive in near silence to Quincy's cousin's house. But I gotta say, the way Susan is fooling around and making jokes, to me, she doesn't sound like someone who thinks she's about to confront a psychotic killer, let alone one she claims has been stalking her for the past eight months. The first reference she made of that stalking was in an email to Tom the previous summer when she was trying to get hold of a picture of Quincy to identify him.

[Susan Galbraith (Email Reader)]

I have to see what he looks like. I had a visitor yesterday, and before I could get to my door, he was getting into a car. I've been told the description I have describes Q.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's a story she would stand by for years. This is Susan speaking in 2012.

[Susan Galbraith (Later Interview)]

I was out gardening and I glance up and I just see him standing there. He's got his arms across his chest and just standing there with his legs spread and he's just looking dead at me. My husband at the time was there and I said, who is that? He said, that's cross.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

And Tom would repeat in the press. Now, as we've seen, Susan is prone to exaggerating. But what we do know is that her own friend, Lacy Gates, would later claim the stalker accusation was made up again. According to Lacey, Susan repeated this false accusation even after she'd figured this out. Either way, the accusation was never proven or even investigated. As far as we know. Did she ever truly believe her stalker was Quincy? Did a genuine misunderstanding become a convenient lie? Or was she out to railroad Quincy from the outset? As with so many things in this story, it's unfortunate we can't ask her. In any case, this is the context in which Susan and Lacey confronted Quincy Cross on February 20, 2005. As Susan perches on the edge of the sofa, she takes out her cigarettes and the cell phone the state police had given her and places them on the coffee table. The television plays in the background, the kids chatter. She doesn't know at the time, but the background noise will make the audio she's secretly recording almost impossible to hear. Lacey sits across the room in a chair. Quincy remains standing. Susan needs to elicit incriminating details from him. She decides to go for broke.

[Susan Galbraith]

I talk to a lot of leaf lines now, of course, she always goes across the round chest of men. I mean, that's. That was about to hound her life. And I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's hard to make out, but there they are. The two key details from the original crime scene report. Belt and gas. The two details that slowly emerge from the Chris Drive interviews. Belt and gas, the foundational evidence of Susan. Susan's narrative against Quincy. Belt and gas. It's hard to hear how Quincy responds, but there is a lot of shouting. He denies even having a belt. He claims he was wearing sweatpants when he was arrested. And the gas he says he spilled over himself was when he was trying to get the car going. It's the same story he told the cops. And at the time Susan doubles down, she tells him that he's in the sights of the police now for the murder, especially according to Susan, that Jeremy Adams has now been cleared.

[Susan Galbraith]

And I'm telling you to your face, Jeremy Adams is clear. Jeremy Adams is clear because of the information. Time and the journalist found completely clear.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

An hour after entering the house, Susan and Lacey leave and walk quickly back to their car. Susan is coming down from an adrenaline high. She's shaking and comments to her friend Lacey that she's disappointed with how the interview went. There had been no confession, no major admission of guilt, but in her mind, Quincy had said one or two things that confirmed her suspicions. The question is, would it be enough to make an arrest? She'd soon find out. That evening, Susan and Lacey report back to the state police post to debrief with Detective Steger, who had been listening in, although details of the conversation were impossible to make out. So it's time to compare notes. But before they can begin, Susan breaks down in tears, the pressure of the day finally getting to her. After she recovers a little, Detective Steger begins the official meeting.

[Commercial Announcer]

Today's date is February 20, 2005. It's this interview with Susan Galbraith.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Susan goes over everything, drawing Detective Steger's attention to the moments she felt Quincy gave himself away.

[Lacey Gates]

If you notice when he says, I ran out of gas and I started pouring the rest of that gas, he said the rest of the gas, which was key to me because that means he used gas for something else and had some left. But he said I knew, and he says as soon as Perkins stops him that I knew when he smelled that gas, I'd get blamed for that.

[Commercial Announcer]

I didn't.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Yeah, see, he didn't catch that either. Perkins is the officer who found Perkins Quincy stranded on the side of the Road trying to put gas in the blue Pontiac on the night of the murder. But as you heard there, Detective Steger says he couldn't make out what Quincy said, or rather, what Susan claims Quincy had said. What follows is even more troubling because she claims Quincy freely admitted to strangling women.

[Lacey Gates]

I wouldn't hit no woman now. I'll choke one. I'll strangle one.

[Commercial Announcer]

And that's what he said?

[Lacey Gates]

Yes. Yeah. And I.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's a claim Lacey would repeat, too. The problem for Detective Steger is that you can't hear Quincy saying this nor anything else that Susan claims. In fact, all you can hear is Quincy flatly denying everything, every important detail that is discussed. It's Susan that's driving it, not Quincy. Gas and belt. Gas and belt. But there's nothing on the tape to indicate he knows anything more. More than what's already been reported. And yet what evolves in the fallout is an even clearer picture of Quincy as the killer. For example, Susan will later claim that Quincy indicated he knew exactly what type of belt was used to kill Jessica.

[Susan Galbraith (Later Interview)]

And he stood up, and I can remember that his waist was right at my eye level. He said, I know exactly what kind of belt was around her throat. It was just like this. And he was wearing a black braided belt. I knew I had him then because even though there may have been talk about a belt around her throat, it was never made clear what kind of belt it was that, in my mind, said, you just confessed to murder.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Susan didn't make this claim at the time. It only came out later on as her story evolved. And there's nothing on that tape that backs this up. We only have her word to go on. Despite Susan's certainty about Quincy Cross's guilt, the COVID recording just didn't have much evidentiary value. Months go by, and there's no movement to arrest Quincy, leaving Susan increasingly frustrated. In fact, Detective Steger is still looking into Jeremy Adams, with yet more witnesses coming forward, repeating claims that have been floating around for years. At this point, here's another witness who spent two weeks incarcerated at the same facility as Jeremy. A year after the murder, he had this to say to Detective Steger.

[Commercial Announcer]

He looks up at me. He looks me straight down the eye.

[Jeremy Adams]

Jeremy, he said, I killed my baby's mama.

[Commercial Announcer]

He said that he did the final blow that killed her with what I believe he said a belt. He pulled off his belt and put around her neck.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

And here's an inmate pointing the finger at Jeremy. He's making this accusation to the state police in 2006, six years after the murder.

[Jeremy Adams]

You just told me that you used

[Commercial Announcer]

to deal with Jeremy Adams.

[Detective Jamie Mills]

Yes, sir.

[Commercial Announcer]

And that Jeremy Adams told you that he killed Jessica Kern.

[Jeremy Adams]

Yeah, he.

[Commercial Announcer]

He said he had to shut her up.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In fact, by early 2006, Detective Sam Steger's investigation has widened to now implicate Net Todd, Jeremy's girlfriend at the time of Jessica's murder. After everything Susan's done, her case against Quincy is once again on the verge of falling apart. And with Detective Steger's focus drifting ever farther away from her Quincy theory, she needs a miracle. Incredibly, that miracle would come in the form of the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation. We see how new witnesses that Susan has unearthed are treated by the kbi.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hughes already in jail. You want to be charged with the murder witness?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Cause she lying.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'm not lying about nothing.

[Lacey Gates]

You starting out lying.

[Commercial Announcer]

You ain't even getting close to the truth. Look at you.

[Ray (Susan's Son)]

You look pathetic.

[Tom Mangold]

You look so pathetic every time. The story is not going to the Susan Galba script. Then the tape was turned off. Then they come back on again and it's back on the Susan Galbraith script.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Witnesses who'd later claim they were coerced. They was forcing me to say Quincy had something to do with it. And that's no lie.

[Susan Galbraith (Later Interview)]

That was forcing me to say that

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

he took part in it. That's next time on My Mother's Lies. At time of release, we have not received a response from the Kentucky State Police, the office of the Attorney General of Kentucky, Jeremy Adams, or former State Troopers Jamie Mills and Sam Steger regarding allegations reported in this episode. Net Todd responded, denying having any knowledge of the crime nor any involvement with Susan's investigation. Tom Mangold confirmed by email that he stands by his reporting. There's no one like you, and there never will be. From the producer Bohemian Rhapsody

[Commercial Announcer]

There are

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

many legends, but there is only One Michael. Rated PG13. In theaters April 24th. This is My Mother's Lies, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, hosted by me, Beth Karras from Message Heard. Alice Arnold is our investigator. Producer Robin Simon, our producer, McAllister Bexson, our series producer Thiago Diaz. Our assistant producer Alan Lear is our supervising sound editor, supported by sound editors Lizzie Andrews and Ivan Easley, with original composition by Mike Mains from Sony Music Entertainment. Our executive producers are Katharine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch from Blink Films. Our executive producer is Justine Kershaw. And a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.

[Podcast Promoter]

I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad free by subscribing to the Binge Podcast Podcast channel.

[Susan Galbraith]

What podcast?

[Podcast Promoter (Alternate)]

Corinne? Tell us.

[Podcast Promoter]

Oh, it's called Blink Jake Handel Story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements.

[Podcast Promoter (Alternate)]

So this is definitely an amazing story

[Podcast Promoter]

and it's very unique.

[Podcast Promoter (Alternate)]

Did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good.

[Podcast Promoter]

Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on the Binge Podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com.