My Mother’s Lies | 6. The Unraveling

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Binge Cases: My Mother's Lies

Episode 6 – The Unraveling (May 6, 2026)
Host: Beth Karras (narration/interviews)
Producer/Investigator: Alice Arnold
Key Contributors: Joe Curran, Ray (Susan Galbraith's son), Maggie Freeling, Miranda Hellman, Jeff Burton, John Poole, Venetia Stubblefield, Rachelle (Quincy’s sister), and others.

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Main Theme Overview

In the dramatic finale of "My Mother's Lies", the case against Quincy Cross—convicted for the 2000 murder of Jessica Curran—faces profound scrutiny as critical witness recantations, suppressed evidence, and deep questions about systemic mishandling—including by Ray's own mother, Susan Galbraith—are brought before the court in a 2025 evidentiary hearing. The episode tracks the collapse of the prosecution's original narrative, explores the personal cost to those involved, and asks whether narrative ambition eclipsed justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The New Hearing and How It Came About

• Explosive Reversal: 17 years after Quincy Cross’s conviction, a new evidentiary hearing is triggered by a trove of emails (withheld at trial) revealing Susan Galbraith’s deep, questionable influence on law enforcement and witness testimony.
  • "So what exactly happened in these 17 years to bring us to this point? And will the story Susan Galbraith helped the KBI construct finally be reckoned with?" (03:37)
• Ray's Role: Susan’s son, Ray, inherits her investigation files and ultimately hands over emails to the Innocence Project, facilitating the new hearing.
  • "Ray would end up doing something incredible... they realized they had the means to expose her wrongdoing and perhaps get Quincy a retrial." (28:20–29:03)

2. Dissecting the Original Convictions

• Background: In 2008, Quincy Cross, a Black man new to Mayfield, is convicted; others take Alford pleas or are acquitted, notably Austin Leach, a white defendant.
  • "Austin's attorney methodically dismantled the witnesses' inconsistencies... Austin was acquitted." (06:25)
• Jury Dynamics and Racial Factors: Quincy’s trial held in a nearly all-white town feeds concern that racism shaped the outcome.
  • "The jury was 11 white persons and one black." (07:54–08:07)

3. Witness Recantations and Evidence of Coercion

• Key Witnesses: Four central witnesses either fully or partially recant, many under oath, detailing police coercion, threats of perjury, and fabrication of physical evidence.
  • "Everything that I testified to was a lie because I was forced to say it. I was threatened to say it." – Venetia Stubblefield, under oath (42:30–42:47)
• Victoria Caldwell’s Role: Victoria’s evolving, contradictory statements disintegrate the prosecution’s narrative; she ultimately invokes her Fifth Amendment rights at the hearing.
  • "Victoria has decided not to repeat her recantation on the stand at this time." (44:06)

4. Susan Galbraith’s Influence and Motivation

• Citizen Sleuth Turned Architect: Initially lauded as hero, Susan turns increasingly to fame, fantasizing about Hollywood deals and media attention as her narrative gains traction—even as witness stories shift.
  • "Tom Mangold emails Susan writing, quote, 'I'll make you famous yet.'" (08:56)
  • "Tom started throwing movie ideas out, and, I mean, I could almost see... my mom's head just going crazy, just, oh, wow." – Ray (23:09)
• Collapse & Fallout: Friends (notably Lacey Gates) and community members turn on Susan as rumors intensify around her motives and the case’s fairness; Susan spirals into depression, substance abuse, and emotional estrangement from Ray.
  • "If Susan felt depressed before, Lacey's U-turn must have felt like a personal betrayal." (22:19)

5. The Price Paid: Families and Community

• Joe Curran, Jessica’s Father: Now believes Quincy is innocent and works to free him, symbolizing the devastation inflicted by a dubious prosecution.
  • "I would like for it to be on record that I do feel like that they got the wrong people. I don't think that Quincy was involved in Jessica's murder." – Joe Curran (17:28)
• Ray’s Emotional Reckoning: Leads to personal agony for Ray, unable to reverse or atone for his mother’s actions.
  • "There's nothing I could say that could undo or change anything that my mother's done." – Ray (28:09)

6. Courtroom Drama: The 2025 Evidentiary Hearing

• Day-by-Day Breakdown:
  • Day One: Minor witnesses recant; Venetia testifies to coercion and fabrication.
    • "She repeats her allegation that KBI agents Lee Wise and Bob O’Neill told her what to say and threatened her and her family." (42:47)
  • Day Two: Victoria Caldwell arrives but pleads the Fifth, sparking courtroom outburst from Venetia.
    • "She had every right to sit there and tell the truth, but she didn't... I really wanted to beat her ass in this courtroom." – Venetia Stubblefield (44:25)
  • Day Three: Under tough questioning, KBI agents Lee Wise and Bob O’Neill deny coaching/coercion, but appear evasive and combative.
    • "So once I saw the other side of the coin, the back side of the coin was skeezy. It was slimy." – Miranda Hellman, KIP attorney (30:32)

7. The Limits of the Legal Process

• Judge Excludes Key Emails: Emails between Susan and law enforcement are excluded for lack of proper authentication.
  • "Judge Gill has decided not to allow the emails between Tom and Susan to be used as new evidence." (40:09)
• Burden on Recanting Witnesses: The outcome now hinges on witness testimony versus old evidence, with little forensic support.
  • "Will Judge Gill discredit the recantations, leaving Quincy incarcerated for life? Or will he grant a retrial or even an exoneration...?" (49:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Racial Dynamics:
  • "I think that taking that case to Clinton, Kentucky in a little place with a limited jury pool made it harder. The jury was 11 white persons and one black." – John Poole (07:54–08:07)
• On Fabrication of Evidence:
  • "Did they tell you what to write or... But all we can say is that the diary was fabricated." – Victoria Caldwell, with Rachelle (35:44–35:53)
• On Witness Coercion:
  • "They would... coach me and coercing me. Then just saying, this is. Well, this is what you finna say, and this is what you gonna say." – Venetia Stubblefield (33:02)
• On Susan’s Downfall:
  • "She told me around the end that she apologized because she could never feel it for me, for a son... She didn’t know how to love me as her child." – Ray (23:56)
• On Seeking Justice:
  • "We long for his presence at the house. My grandma went to her grave... Look what they done to Quincey." – Rachelle (49:46)
• On the Case’s Ultimate Tragedy:
  • "Jessica Curran is still dead. And the seven year investigation... produced a narrative that placed [Susan] at the center, right where Jessica should have been." – Beth Karras (50:13)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Important Segments

• 01:10–03:37: Opening scene: December 2025 evidentiary hearing begins; focus on police conduct.
• 05:16–07:37: Aftermath for other defendants, differences in legal outcomes, race as a factor.
• 08:07–10:03: Media frenzy, Susan’s growing status and motivation.
• 13:42–14:56: Journalist Maggie Freeling condemns journalistic ethics failures and suppression of recantations.
• 17:05–17:54: Joe Curran, the victim’s father, doubts Quincy’s guilt.
• 19:26–20:37: Quincy’s sister and co-defendant recount police/prosecutorial misconduct.
• 22:14–23:31: Lacey Gates’s "big betrayal" of Susan and its impact on Ray and Susan.
• 27:53–30:57: Discovery and handover of Susan’s emails to KIP, resulting impact.
• 32:32–34:08: Venetia Stubblefield’s in-depth account of police coercion and her apology to Jessica’s family.
• 42:30–44:25: Recantations in court, Victoria Caldwell’s refusal to testify, Venetia’s emotional reaction.
• 45:35–46:24: Lee Wise confronted about interrogation techniques—evasions and denials.
• 48:10–48:33: Ray meets Jeff Burton, receives thanks for revealing the truth.
• 49:46–51:34: Final reflections—families’ loss, the continuing search for justice and truth.

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Episode Tone and Style

The language is emotionally charged, at times raw and confessional, as participants reckon with guilt, loss, betrayal, and hope. The host maintains clear-eyed skepticism, striving to center the case's human cost while dissecting the collapse of a once-heroic narrative.

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Conclusion

"The Unraveling" serves as both a reckoning and a cautionary tale: when compelling narrative and personal ambition drive a criminal investigation, real people suffer. With the outcome of Quincy's new hearing uncertain at air time, this final episode leaves listeners questioning not just who killed Jessica Curran—but how far justice must go to untangle lies, egos, and systems that failed everyone involved.

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For listeners: This summary covers all critical developments, quoted testimony, and major themes. For maximum impact and insight, refer to the episode's noted timestamps for especially powerful moments.

Transcript

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[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

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[Joe Curran (Jessica's Father)]

The binge.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's December 18, 2025. 17 years since Quincy Omar Cross was found guilty of Jessica Curran's murder. 17 years of denied appeals, frustration and despair. And it all comes down to today. A shot at freedom. We're at the Graves County Circuit Court on the final day of a new evidentiary hearing. Over the previous days, Quincy's defense team has scrutinized a number of eyewitnesses and their testimony that were so critical to the 2008 prosecution and conviction of Quincy Cross. But today, the focus shifts to the men deemed responsible for extracting that testimony. I gotta get your attention.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Just a second.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Dr. Louis Vu. Patience. But I can't let you do that.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

If you understand, because that is the voice of Special Judge Tyler Gill. The man on the stand, who Judge Gill is reprimanding is. Is former KBI agent Lee Wise.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Sir, Is this how you talked with the young girls in this case? During the interrogations? No.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

This is Quincy's defense attorney referencing the infamous Drury Inn interviews where agents Lee Wise and Bob o' Neill aggressively interrogated young witnesses, including Victoria Caldwell and Jessica's cousin, Venetia Stubblefield.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

You didn't yell at them? You didn't talk over them when they were trying to tell you what they meant?

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

Not to.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

My life.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

You testified earlier that you knew that Venetia Stubblefield was afraid. You remember saying that?

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

I think you need to give me a little more than that. When was that? I say she was pregnant. Why?

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Just a few minutes ago.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

So far, Lee Wise has been pretty argumentative. Obstructive, even. And if he goes on like this, he's at risk of being held in contempt, so he should be careful.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Sir, I am trying to ask.

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

I can't answer something that you're asking a question, but you're answering it for me.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Quincy's attorney doesn't get much further before the judge steps in again.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Do we need to take a break for about 10 minutes? Because I don't want something bad to happen here.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

The judge calls for a 10 minute recess so Agent Wise can compose himself. Seventeen years ago, it was Quincy and a handful of witnesses who who were in the spotlight facing an interrogation. Now the tables have turned. So what exactly happened in these 17 years to bring us to this point? And will the story Susan Galbraith helped the KBI construct finally be reckoned with? And will it be enough to warrant a retrial for Quincy Cross from Sony Music Entertainment and Message heard? This is my mother's lies. Hi, I'm Beth Karras. This is our finale, episode six, the Unraveling. Let's go back to 2008. Quincy has been convicted. In the fallout of the trial, his remaining co defendants continued maintaining their innocence. But Tamara Caldwell, Quincy's one time girlfriend, and Jeff Burton, who lived at the house near the school where Jessica's body was supposedly stored, are now pushed by their attorneys to take plea deals. Here's private investigator and former cop John Poole.

[John Poole (Private Investigator)]

Well, I think both of them had seen what happened to Quincy and they had been locked up for months before that. And then certainly if I was sitting in a jail cell and I saw that happen, I would be worried.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Our producer Alice recently caught up with Jeff to ask him about that time.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

I'm thinking Quincy goes to trial, I'm gonna go home, you know what I'm saying? They find him guilty. I'm just kind of going off my emotions of what I'm reliving in my head just sucks, man.

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

It's okay to be emotional.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Both Tamara and Jeff took what's known as Alfred Please. Legally, it's not an admission of guilt. They don't utter the words, I did this, I'm guilty. But it's where the accused accepts that there is sufficient evidence to convict and chooses not to contest it at trial. Jeff Burton went to prison for seven years.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

The time that was wasted or I missed, I should say. My youngest one was 2, got out, he was 9, Modus was 7, she was 14. Other ones of 4, she was 11.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

An ordeal that has left him with PTSD.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

I felt like I was pleading to God, you know what I'm Saying, so to speak, like dude, I can't, I can't endure no more.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Similarly, Quincy's ex girlfriend Tama would serve nearly six years of her ten year sentence. One person who did not take the Alford plea after Quincy was convicted was Austin Leach, the owner of the white Cadillac. Austin had a good defense team and decided to take his chances at trial. Unlike Quincy's public defender, Austin's attorney methodically dismantled the witnesses inconsistencies and poked holes in the prosecution's narrative. In one gotcha moment, Victoria Caldwell failed to correctly identify Austin in the courtroom. In the end, the jury returned a different verdict. Austin was acquitted. Our producer Alice recently spoke with him too. He said he wants to move on with his life and declined to participate in a recorded interview. Private investigator John Poole, who you've been hearing from, assisted Austin's legal team. He thinks Austin had more in his favor than just better representation as a white defendant. Austin may have faced a different type of scrutiny than Quincy Cross.

[John Poole (Private Investigator)]

So really it was the same. Basically the trial was similar, the girls and all, but we had a different jury.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

So Quincy's trial was moved outside of Mayfield to another town where the majority of people were white and Quincy is black.

[John Poole (Private Investigator)]

I think that taking that case to Clinton, Kentucky in a little place with a limited jury pool made it harder. In the jury was 11 white persons and one black.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In fact, during this production, John Poole told us he's heard that the one black female juror at Quincy's trial felt intimidated by the other 11. So it's hard for me to believe that race didn't play a role in Quincy's conviction. Meanwhile, following the convictions of Quincy and the others back in the uk, Tom Mangold continued his coverage, writing a piece for another British newspaper in April 2009. In it, he tells of their investigation and Susan's heroic efforts in the US too. The press heralded the citizen sleuth who solved a murder virtually every day.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

She became convinced. This man, Quincy Cross, in a drug haze, first assaulted Jessica Curran, then strangled her.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Tom emails Susan writing, quote, I'll make you famous yet. In this 2008 CBS broadcast following the convictions, Susan once again repeated her claim about Quincy stalking her.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

She asked so many questions, she says at one point Cross started stalking her.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

I kept thinking Cross had had to be involved somehow.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In the following months, Susan is interviewed on Japanese TV and does at least one paid interview for Women's Own magazine. But it's the hope of a Hollywood film that she's really holding onto. In a radio interview with Tom Mangold here in the States. He confirms their story is being optioned a contract we understand Susan may have received a substantial payment for.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I have read on your website, Ms. Mangold, that there is a film in the works about the subject.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

I received approximately 15 to 16 film offers. The script has been written and don't ask me who's going to play me because I wanted Brad Pitt.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Around the same time, Tom is preparing his own two part BBC Radio documentary. You've been hearing snippets of it throughout this series. In 2010, he headed back to Mayfield to gather fresh interviews. Along with noting the local concerns over the investigation. He also now finds that the witness stories have continued shifting. His interview with Victoria Caldwell is particularly problematic. Her story has continued to change. Weapons, dates and vehicles are still confused. Details that don't match what she said at trial. In 2011, he asked Lacey Gates, Susan's friend and assistant, to speak with Victoria to clarify some things. When Lacey writes back, she drops a bombshell. According to Lacey, Victoria has apparently recanted much of her original testimony, admits she lied and that she now has nightmares about it. Tom fires off an email back to Lacey asking her not to get Susan involved because, quote, we need her to stay well out of controversy for the purposes of the movie. He then emails Bob o' Neill directly raising his concerns about, quote, Victoria's veracity and status as a key witness. Tom's concerns and questions to the KBI appear to go largely unresolved. And in early January 2012, he emails his doubts to Lacey. I'll read this in full because it's explosive. I'm just beginning to wonder. This is but a tiny worm of an idea in my wine soaked brain that there is a teeny weeny, itsy bitsy chance that we've got the whole fucking murder story wrong and that there may have been a huge miscarriage of justice, that Burton and Tamara may be wholly innocent, that Jay was killed on the school playing fields and that there's something wrong about the KBI investigation. Please tell me I'm losing my sanity. Now. This is troubling, shocking. I mean, I am apoplectic over this. Tom admitting that Susan's story, the one they've been corresponding about for almost a decade, the story that directly contributed to the convictions against many people, might be wrong again. We asked Tom to participate in this podcast. He declined, but he did have this to say via email. He acknowledged that Victoria's statements have changed a lot over the years, but that he felt after interviewing her twice himself and Discussing these interviews at length with the kbi and lacking any credible alternative suspect or scenario, he remains convinced that Quincy is guilty and that Victoria was involved. He also stated that he does not recall sending that email expressing his doubts to Lacey Gates, saying, quote, my feelings in 2012 were not my feelings later, which I changed. Whatever the extent of his doubts, a few Months later, in May 2012, his BBC radio documentary aired. With the Susan prosecution story unchanged. Victoria's reported recantation is not included. Here's Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Maggie Freeling discussing this unsettling turn of events.

[Maggie Freeling (Journalist)]

When Lacey gets involved, she virtually tells Tom this, like, hey, there is something off, like Victoria's recanting. Did you know this? And that's when I see Tom actually lean more into this theatrics and less journalism because he goes ahead and publishes this article in which Victoria is the linchpin of this whole thing.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Maggie cares so much about the miscarriage of justice in this case that she hosted her own podcast, Season three of Bone Valley, which is devoted to Jessica Curran's murder. As a journalist, Maggie thinks Tom needed to disclose in his documentary the fact that Victoria had allegedly recanted.

[Maggie Freeling (Journalist)]

He's a journalist. When you have right in front of you, the simplest thing, someone saying, hey, Victoria recanted. Your due diligence before you publish that article is to go talk to Victoria. Did you recant what happened and put it in that article? He intentionally did not do that. He had this information and did not put it in, and that breaks your oath as a journalist to do no harm and tell the truth.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

We can't be sure if Tom ever did share his doubts with Susan or repeat what Laci told him about Victoria's alleged recantation. But it seems similar doubts were starting to spread throughout Mayfield. As the rumor mill churned, the idea that something was wrong with the 2008 convictions grew, as did the idea that that Susan had been seeking to profit from this tragedy. Here she is complaining about the local reaction in a 2010 interview with Tom Mangold.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

What should have been the high point of my life was dampened by negativity. The treatment that I've gotten from a lot of people here, I don't think I deserve it. I've been degraded. I've been called names.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It seems Susan was no longer enjoying life in the spotlight. She started receiving hate mail and abusive comments on her MySpace page. One person even suggested it was she who really killed Jessica. Presumably adding to Susan's disappointment was the fact that after all her efforts, she also never received the reported $9,000 reward money for helping solve the case. Turns out it had all been spent or donated to charity by City Hall. If Susan hoped this blowback would eventually pass, she was wrong. As time went on, those rumors would grow into a clamor as her critics united to try and reverse what was incredible, increasingly believed to be a gross miscarriage of justice.

[Joe Curran (Jessica's Father)]

I had talked to Quincy once on the phone. I've met his mom, sisters, and his dad. And I had talked with his dad several times. And he just wants the son to get help and get out of jail.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In Mayfield over the years, rumors of witness coercion spread. Residents banded together and shared theories. Wrongful conviction groups got involved, and eventually a free Quincy Cross movement built online support. Today, one of the most vocal advocates for Quincy's innocence is perhaps one of the most surprising. Jessica Curran's father, Joe.

[Joe Curran (Jessica's Father)]

I would like for it to be on record that I do feel like that they got the wrong people. I don't think that Quincy was involved in Jessica's murder. I think Quincy was involved in drugs, and Susan knew that, and Susan didn't like him, and he was a newcomer to Mayfield, and so she put him in it. And they stayed with that story.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

The victim's own father believes Quincy to be innocent. I've seen this in other cases. In fact here, Joe Curran's been working with Quincy's dad, David for years to help him get his son's conviction overturned. Now, at this point, we should probably acknowledge a voice you haven't heard from in this series. Quincy's a bit like at his 2008 trial. He now chooses to remain silent. We're in touch with his legal team and have exchanged emails with Quincy. He told us he can no longer trust the media after everything he's been through, and that's understandable. However, he has spoken out in the past. Here's what he had to say in 2023 to the unforbidden Truth podcast.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Well, see, I never met Tamro, my co defendant to 2002, middle of 2002. I never knew Tampa in 2000. Now, Jeff Burton. I still don't know him. I don't know him at all because I ain't never met him. And he's supposed to be my co defendant now, ladies and stubble field. I didn't meet her till probably 2002, right after. Right after me and Tamara got together, but I still don't know her either. I don't know nothing about this case. I know I'm locked up for it. So Something I don't know nothing about. And it's not right because I do know that I did not commit this horrific crime. I do know that.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

We did, however, manage to speak with his sister Rachelle, who still to this day can't believe a jury found her brother guilty.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

For them to just take somebody's word of mouth testimony and convict somebody for the rest of their life, I said that is unheard of. That's insane. At least I have some evidence to back it up. There's nothing to back it up.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

You see, Even during the 2008 trial, there was controversy when one female witness broke down on the stand and recanted. In the end, her testimony wasn't pivotal. But that witness got sentenced to five years for first degree perjury, which of course would have made others hesitant to publicly come forward with their own recantations. That is, until years later, when in 2012, Venetia Jessyca's cousin officially recanted and signed an affidavit in the presence of a Kentucky Innocence Project investigator. It was a bold move.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

Reason why I lied like I did is because they told me that if I didn't tell what they wanted me to say, they were still gonna charge my mom with the pipe that she had in her purse.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In that interview, Venetia's mom even speaks up corroborating her daughter's claim and actually accuses KBI agents of planting the crack pipe in question. Then in 2014, Joe Curran writes an affidavit directly against Susan. Quote, I was contacted by Susan Galbraith, who was a friend of Jeremy Adams mother, and she offered her assistance in solving the murder. I later found out that she had no law enforcement or investigative training and appeared to be motivated in part by reward money, end quote. Two years later, it was Susan's best friend, Lacey Gates, who came forward with a heavy heart. Lacey calls out Susan and writes her own affidavit to say she thinks Susan's story is untrue. In her statement, Lacey writes, quote, it came to my attention during the course of the investigations. I feel that Susan Galbraith directed the police in the wrong direction and the wrong people were convicted, end quote. In the same statement, she also challenged Susan's decade old claim that she was stalked by Quincy Cross. Quote, she later found out that it was her estranged husband Marty Galbraith, but she never corrected this fact to anyone, end quote. If Susan felt depressed before, Laci's U turn must have felt like a personal betrayal. At least that's her son Ray's view.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

So this was Laci basically, you know, like, look, I'm done. Kind of like, I'm done with my mom, you know?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In the end, Ray suspects his mother knew deep down something wasn't right with her story.

[Narrator / Advertiser]

You think she knew?

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I think she knew that Quincy didn't do it, but she's so far into it. She was under oath saying some things just logically, I would think that there was. There's a lot of lies in there that she didn't want anybody to know.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Ray had always wondered why his mom stopped engaging with the Currants after they began to doubt Quincy's conviction.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

For me, if my mom wanted to stay in the good of all this, she should have just stayed with the Currans, their daughter, that all this is about. And once again, this goes back to her being wrong.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

In the end, Ray believed Susan was fixated on what she thought was the ultimate prize, fame and fortune.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Tom started throwing movie ideas out, and, I mean, I could almost see the hamster wheel in my mom's head just going crazy, just, oh, wow. Yeah.

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

Movies.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

This movie that she talked about the people that would play her. You know, they talked about the people who would play Tom. And it's like, as far as my mom is concerned, it's already there. She's just gotta get there.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

But as we know, Susan never did get there. Susan drifted away from both Lacey and Tom. She drifted away from Mayfield, slipping further into depression.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Found out later she was doing meth, which I never even in a million

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

years would have thought towards the end.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Eventually, Susan left Ray's life as well, but not before landing a final blow.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

She told me around the end that she apologized because she could never feel it for me, for a son, like parental love. She didn't know how to love me as her child.

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

That's really tough.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

After that, Susan and Ray were basically estranged. One of the last times he saw her, he was shocked by how much her health had deteriorated.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I've seen her weaker than I've ever seen her. You know, I've seen her disheveled. You know, my mom was never like that.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

On July 27, 2018, Susan crashed her car. The responding officer thought she was drunk, and he arrested her. It turned out that she'd had a stroke. She suffered another stroke in her jail cell and never woke up.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I found out that happened and that she was in the hospital, and I went to go see her, but she was unconscious. It just sucks because you never. I didn't get a chance to make up with her. You always think you'll have one more chance, you know. But I didn't. And she didn't either.

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

What would you want to say to her if you had that chance?

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I guess just say, I love her.

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

in spite of everything Susan did, in spite of everything, Ray now knows she's still his mom. And of course, Ray was left with a terrible burden and still struggles with her legacy and specifically her lasting impact on Quincy.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I just. I just feel so sorry. I'm just so sorry for him. There's nothing I could say that could undo or change anything that my mother's done.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

As it turned out, Ray would end up doing something incredible, something that would give Quincy his best shot at freedom yet. Remember back before Quincy's 2008 trial, how Susan refused to send his defense team all of her hard drives and email correspondence? Well, once Ray started working with Alice's colleagues at Blink Films, they didn't just realize Susan was a liar. They realized they had the means to expose her wrongdoing and perhaps get Quincy a retrial.

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

What these emails were were conversations between Susan Galbraith and Tom Mangold and Susan Galbraith and the kbi. And the emails to me were shocking. If during Quincy's trial, I think if they'd known the extent of Susan's involvement in this case and influence on law enforcement, it might have changed the outcome for Quincy. And so the next stage was, well, we need to give this evidence to someone. And there was this ethical obligation to give it to the Innocence Project that were working to get Quincy out of prison. So that's what we did.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

The person who they turned them over to was Miranda Hellman, Quincy's attorney at the Kentucky Innocence Project.

[Miranda Hellman (Kentucky Innocence Project Attorney)]

And so when those emails came through, it took a while. It took a minute. There was a shock factor to it of, there's something to this.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Miranda had always felt Susan was a major factor in the prosecution's case, but was never quite sure how.

[Miranda Hellman (Kentucky Innocence Project Attorney)]

So we spent a straight 24 hours. Like, I'm pretty sure I didn't sleep that night. Going through cataloging, trying to put these emails back in order.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

As she sorted through these 300 or so emails, it was like a key turning in a lock. Suddenly, she understood. She also finally understood why it was that more information hadn't been available to Quincy's original defense team.

[Miranda Hellman (Kentucky Innocence Project Attorney)]

Another piece of these emails really pointed to her working with the KBI agents To ensure that as little information got turned over to Quincy's attorneys. And so once I saw the other side of the coin, the back side of the coin was skeezy. It was slimy. It was meetings in a diner about how to not have to turn over information to a subpoena.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

With the emails in hand and witnesses now recanting, Miranda petitioned for a new evidentiary hearing for Quincy cross. And in October 2025, she was successful. The hearing was eventually scheduled by Judge Tyler Gill for three, three days over late November and December of the same year. Time was against them, but Miranda hoped they finally had enough grounds to warrant a retrial.

[Miranda Hellman (Kentucky Innocence Project Attorney)]

Quincy met a perfect storm when this investigation and trial happened. Now that he has his evidentiary hearing and all of this new evidence has been presented very thoroughly, I'm hoping that this is the perfect storm, the good perfect storm that comes at the end for him.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's November 24, 2025, one day before the new hearing is due to begin. The big news is that the judge will focus on the recantations of four women who testified against Quincy in 2008, including the prosecution's two crucial eyewitnesses, Venetia Stubblefield and Victoria Caldwell, both of whom confessed to being accomplices to the crime and took reduced sentences in exchange for testifying against the others. Testimony that they have both admitted now was false. Our producer Alice, sits down with Venecia, who's apprehensive about seeing the former KBI agents at the hearing.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

False. To see them today, I would tell them the same thing they told me then. I'm gonna see to it that you rot in prison by lethal injection like you did me and my mother. Then you sit there and made a threat, saying that you'll see that we'll spend the rest of our life in prison and that we'll die in prison by lethal injection. I have no respect for you at all, period. And that's what they did to me and my mom and my family. They threatened us.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Benisha remembers the 2007 Drury Inn interviews.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

Like they were yesterday, the KBI, like, when they was doing my interview and stuff, it was like they was talking to me. We was talking, but then, like off camera and off record, they would sit here and coach me and coercing me. Then just saying, this is. Well, this is what you finna say, and this is what you gonna say.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

So wait a second. The KPI stopped and started this videotaped interview. That is a huge red flag if what Venetia says is True. That would explain a lot. We already heard clips of those agents practically telling the girls what to say on camera. I can only imagine what was said while it was turned off. Benisha is now driven by the need to right the injustice and account for the harm she contributed to starting with the Currans.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

I'm sorry for everything that has. Any kind of harm that has come to y'.

[Alice Arnold (Producer)]

All.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

I truly, deeply apologize for everything that has happened, and I hope that they can get some closure and they find the answers that they need. But for the most part, I'm so, so sorry for your loss.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Venecia blames much of this on Susan's meddling.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

I'm glad she's dead. She got what she deserved. Because look at all the harm that you've done to everybody else. Look at all the harm and dangerous things that you caused everybody and their families as well.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

The other witness who had been called to testify is, of course, Victoria Caldwell. Now, one of the new pieces of evidence submitted for this hearing was a statement made to the Kentucky Innocence project lawyers in 2023, where Victoria recanted her original testimony. However, she's refused to put that recantation in a signed affidavit. Now, they understand that Victoria has been subject to a lot of pressure by the prosecutors, but Quincy's defense is hoping now is finally the moment she'll recant under oath on the witness stand. Not surprisingly, Victoria was reluctant to speak with any media around the time of the hearing. Our producer, Alice, had been trying to get an interview with her for months.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

When now tap on add contact button and search for the contact you want to call. And then tap on merge button. Call recording has started.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

A few weeks after the hearing, Victoria finally answered.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

Hello. I'm so glad that I'm speaking to you today. We've been communicating for a while, right. And I didn't know if you would ever speak to me, so I'm super grateful that you've decided to speak with me.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Victoria was a little nervous, but gradually opened up.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

Are you telling me the diary was fabricated?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

Yes.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

So you just. Did they tell you what to write or.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

I really can't say. Okay, that part.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

But all we can say is that the diary was fabricated.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It definitely is. The diary they're discussing was a piece of evidence produced in the 2008 trial that appeared to contain a written confession by Victoria implicating Quincy Jeff Burton.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

Had you met him before?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Never. And that's not all. What about Quincy?

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

Have you met him?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

No.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

You've never met Quincy Cross? No. Okay. How did that story come about if you'd never met Quincy?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

I feel like Lee really had me out for him, and I don't know why.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

On the phone call with Alice, Victoria also claimed she was threatened by then KBI agent Lee Wise to repeat the Quincy murder story or face death by lethal injection. She claimed the Quincy story was drilled into her and rehearsed before trial. Now, after all these years, Victoria says she wants to see Quincy exonerated for the crime he did commit. This is a lot to wrap your head around. We also have to say that even in our own conversations with these women, new details and new accusations came up that we can't fact check or easily corroborate. Their stories have changed a lot over years of retelling. At the very least, and most importantly, in my opinion, these are not reliable witnesses. Certainly not witnesses on which a conviction should rest. Also, I have to say, it takes some courage to come forward. Now, legally, both these women could face charges for perjury if it's deemed that they lied on the stand in 2008. As far as I can see, they really have nothing to gain personally by speaking to us. Unless they're just trying to clear their conscience. Then again, speaking to podcast producers, which is not under oath, and then repeating these claims on the witness stand, which is under oath. Two very different things entirely.

[Infamous Podcast Host]

Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down Top Model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself.

[Infamous Podcast Host]

We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse.

[Infamous Podcast Host]

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[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

A woman's erotic power can unlock many

[Maggie Freeling (Journalist)]

other powers in her life.

[Infamous Podcast Host]

And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was, the only thing I'm guilty of is being Sha Mazing.

[Infamous Podcast Host]

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous.

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

Fabio Sementilli.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Big hearts, big voice, big laugh.

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

He was like a wizard behind the chair.

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

But killers came for Fabio in his own backyard.

[Narrator / Advertiser]

You can't rationalize it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

You can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything, but

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

every wild theory was Wrong. Because the truth was even more unbelievable.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

What is anyone hearing what I'm hearing?

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

And even more heartbreaking, the uncertainty of

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

not knowing is a form of agony.

[Fabio Sementilli (Referenced Individual)]

From Sony Music Entertainment and novel, this is Cut Color Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut Color Kill is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast. To start listening today, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

On November 25, 2020, Quincy's new Evidentiary hearing begins. In a blow to Quincy's defense, Judge Gill has decided not to allow the emails between Tom and Susan to be used as new evidence. At this point, they would need authentication to be admissible, which, given that Susan is dead and Tom is in the uk, would take time. So the pressure is now on the witnesses to go on the record with their recantations. The courtroom is packed. Media locals, the Curran and Cross families. Jessica's now grown up son Zion attends with his wife. Susan's son Ray also decides to attend the hearing. In spite of knowing how his mom is perceived, he's quiet and contemplative.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

I mean, I'm supposed to do this. If she were alive, she wouldn't want me cooperating with anybody the way I am. But I think where she's at now, I think she would want to rest in peace. And if there's any way that I can use the stuff that she has to bring peace to anybody, even her, that, you know, it's all worth it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Day one of the hearing gets off to a good start for Quincy, who is present sitting in his orange jumpsuit next to his defense team. He will remain silent, but he is watching carefully. A reminder to those on the stand that it's his life, his future that's at stake. One of the minor witnesses, another Mayfield woman, was just a 12 year old girl in 2000 and was a new mom at the age of 19 when she was compelled to testify against Quincy Cross. Testimony she now recants under oath.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Has Mr. Cross ever confessed to you

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

that he killed Jessica Grant?

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Hell yeah.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Has Quincy Cross ever confessed to you that he had any involvement in Jessica Currant's murder?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

No. Next up is Venetia. She takes the stand and she lets loose more than just recanting. She comes out and accuses law enforcement of coercing her.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

And everything that I testified to was a lie because I was forced to say it. I was threatened to say it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

So you testified, you basically testified falsely

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

that yes, because I was told to say things that I said.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

I'll Repeat that for you. Everything that I testified to was a lie. She repeats her allegation that KBI agents Lee Wise and Bob o' Neill told her what to say and threatened her and her family if the judge finds this testimony reliable. This is a huge moment for Quincy. As day one comes to a close, everyone's thoughts turn to tomorrow and whether Victoria Caldwell will do the same. It's day two of the hearing. The courtroom is settled and proceedings have begun. A door opens quietly and a late arrival hurries in. It's Victoria, accompanied by her husband. There are looks and whispers in the gallery. Many didn't think she'd turn up. And the dramatics aren't over. Victoria is called to the stand, but after answering a few basic questions confirming who she is, she decides to exercise her Fifth Amendment rights to. To remain silent.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

Exercise my right to remain silent at

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

this point, did you hear people talking about Jessica Curran's murder at her school?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

Yeah, I actually have my right to remain silent.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

And are you invoking your Fifth Amendment privileged fans?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

Yes.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

Victoria has decided not to repeat her recantation on the stand at this time. The judge dismisses her. But as Victoria hurries out of the courtroom, Venetia leaps up and explodes in a rage. In the end, Venetia has to be held back from attacking her.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

She had every right to sit there and tell the truth, but she didn't. And she still. And they let her go. No, I ain't got no respect for nothing for her. It took everything in my power not to punch her because I really wanted to beat her ass in this courtroom at the head of the night. She was ruined a lot of people's lives.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

It's a blow for Quincy. No doubt about that. The hearing resumes a couple of weeks later for a third and final day. The defense attorney now turns her attention to the former KBI agents accused of coercing the witnesses in order to produce the murder narrative against Quincy Cross, Lee Wise and Bob o' Neal on the stand. Former agent Wise is clearly rattled and repeatedly loses his temper, shouting over Quincy's attorney. Eventually, the judge stands up and intervenes. As you heard at the beginning of this episode. I gotta get your attention.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

Just a second.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Not to lose my patience, but I

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

can't let you do that. Later. The defense continues to question Lee Wise's interviewing technique.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Are you familiar with the Reid technique of interrogation?

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

Yeah, I don't use it, but I know it.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

I won't get into the weeds. But the Reid technique is a controversial, highly confrontational method for Eliciting confessions from suspects. It's also known to produce false confessions, especially in the case of vulnerable individuals.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

Some of the techniques that are taught in the Reed technique.

[Judge Tyler Gill]

Not really.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

What do you mean, not really?

[Lee Wise (Former KBI Agent)]

Nobody add some. What do you mean, not really? I said not really.

[Quincy's Defense Attorney]

All right, sir, I'm gonna try really hard to ask you a question and to ask it directly. I'm gonna ask you to listen to my question and respond to that so that we don't. We don't do this back and forth and talking over each other, okay?

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

But the back and forth does go on. Former KBI agent Lee Wise denies everything. His former partner, Bob o', Neill, is calmer under questioning, but also doesn't give away much. After three days, the evidence is completed. In total, four of the prosecution's original witnesses, women whose testimony helped secure Quincy's conviction, told the court and that parts of what they said in 2008 were false, pressured, or shaped by investigators. Testimony that supported a narrative many now believe was heavily influenced, if not authored, by Susan Galbraith. But will it be enough for Judge Gill to set aside Quincy's conviction? Jeff Burton, the white guy Susan accused of disposing of Jessica's body, who served seven years for a crime he has always insisted he didn't commit, shares his point of view. And outside the courtroom.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

I was excited for what has happened today, and things are looking bright. But I am nervous as well. Cause I do know Commonwealth of Kentucky. Obviously, they don't ever want to admit that they've done wrong or messed up or whatever.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

For Ray, though, this has been a reckoning with who his mother was, with what she did, and with the part he now plays in shaping a new narrative. By stepping forward, by allowing Susan's story to be examined, Ray is part of something different. A chance to rewrite at least some small part of what went wrong in Mayfield, something Jeff Burton and others are keen to thank him for.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

Can I introduce you to someone?

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

Yeah.

[Victoria Caldwell (Witness)]

This is Raymond, Susan's son.

[Venetia Stubblefield (Witness)]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

It's a pleasure to meet you, man.

[John Poole (Private Investigator)]

I'm John Poole. How are you?

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

You turned over a lot of the stuff to the thing, man. That's beautiful, man. Thank you, man.

[John Poole (Private Investigator)]

Thank you for doing that.

[Jeff Burton (Co-defendant)]

Yeah, really, really greatly appreciate it, man. So hopefully we can get this thing busted open all the way.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

As Alice bids farewell to Ray, she can see the emotion etched onto his face. After the guilt Ray has carried all these years, Jeff's words of thanks hit hard.

[Ray (Susan Galbraith's Son)]

It was nice to finally meet Jeff. You know, they've all these people been rent free in my head for, you know, so long now. It's good to, you know, interact with and see him face to face, to be told. Thank you. And I mean, it's a big. It's a big deal.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

By the time this episode airs, we'll likely know the outcome of the evidentiary hearing. Will Judge Gill discredit the recantations, leaving Quincy incarcerated for life? Or will he grant a retrial or even an exoneration in a case that would now be extraordinarily difficult to prosecute with witnesses who have recanted in some form and little forensic evidence to Support it? For 17 years, he's maintained his innocence. Years he'll never get back. As his sister told us, for Quincy, the stakes are not abstract.

[Rachelle (Quincy's Sister)]

We long for his presence at the house. Everybody. My grandma went to her grave. That's all she talked about. When people come over, that's all she talked about. Look how he done. My little grandson. Look what they done done to my baby. Look what they done to Quincey. When we cross over the state line, it's like, oh my God, what are we going to expect? It's scary.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

But whatever happens in court, whether or not Quincy gets a retrial, one fact will not change. Jessica Curran is still dead. And the seven year investigation into her death that was warped by Susan Galbraith produced a narrative that placed her at the center, right where Jessica should have been. This podcast is, in part a cautionary tale about what happens when the desire for a compelling story begins to eclipse the facts. When narrative overtakes humanity, when the people pulled in become characters, when storylines replace real lives. Nowhere is that more painfully felt than with the Currans. For 25 years, Jessica's family has watched the story of her murder twist and mutate, reshaped by rumor, reinvention, interference and false hope. They have never received clarity, an apology or justice.

[Narrator / Advertiser]

What's the truth?

[Joe Curran (Jessica's Father)]

That's what we're trying to find. That's what. We don't know who killed Jessica Curran because honestly, today we still don't know.

[Narrator / Host (Beth Karras)]

At the time of release, we have not received a response from the Kentucky State Police, the office of the Attorney General of Kentucky for former state trooper Sam Steger or former KBI agent Lee Wise regarding allegations reported in this episode. A legal representative for former KBI agent Bob o' Neill responded by email saying he, quote, categorically denies the narrative and the specific allegations unlock all episodes of My Mother's lies. Ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Not only will you immediately unlock all episodes of this show, but you'll get binge access to an entire network of over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts, shows like Doctor's Orders and watching you all ad free. Plus, on the first of every month, subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series that's all episodes all at once. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page not on Apple. Then head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. This Is My Mother's Lies, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, hosted by me, Beth Karras from Message Heard. Alice Arnold is our investigator producer Robin Simon our producer McAllister Bexson our series producer Tiago Diaz our assistant producer Alan Lear is our supervising Sound editor, supported by sound editors Lizzie Andrews and Ivan Easley with original composition by Mike Mains from Sony Music Entertainment. Our executive producers are Katharine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch from Blink Films. Our Executive Producer Executive Producer is Justine Kershaw and a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.