Scary Terri | 3. Marital Issues

Summary

The Binge Cases: Scary Terri – Episode 3: "Marital Issues"

Release Date: December 16, 2024
Host: Sony Music Entertainment
Author: Investigative Reporter Jonathan Hirsch

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Introduction

In the chilling third episode of "Scary Terri," investigative reporter Jonathan Hirsch delves deeper into the enigmatic and sinister world surrounding Terri Hoffman, a spiritual leader based in Dallas, Texas. This episode, titled "Marital Issues," explores the tumultuous relationship between Terri and her husband, Glenn Cooley, culminating in Glenn's mysterious death. Through meticulous investigation and firsthand accounts, Hirsch unravels the complex web of manipulation, control, and possible foul play that may have led to multiple unexplained deaths linked to Terri Hoffman.

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Glenn Cooley and Terri Hoffman's Relationship

Glenn Cooley, a student at North Texas State, encountered Terri Hoffman during his college years. Drawn to her charisma and spiritual guidance, Glenn became deeply involved in Terri's organization, the Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc. His unwavering dedication led him to drop out of college and marry Terri at the age of 20, despite the significant age difference of over a decade.

Janet Hoffman describes Glenn's early impressions of Terri:
“He was that young, sandy brown hair. He wasn't super tall, five, eight, five nine, you know, he had a very kind of calming voice.” ([01:23])

Terri's influence over Glenn was profound. She wasn't merely a spiritual teacher; she manipulated his thoughts and actions during counseling sessions, exerting control that extended beyond typical mentorship. Hirsch references taped consultations revealing Terri's manipulative tactics, suggesting she could convince followers like Dorothy that they had lost control of their minds, only to regain it through her guidance.

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The Breakup and Marital Struggles

As time progressed, Glenn began to question Terri's teachings and methods. His growing skepticism strained their marriage, leading to significant marital discord. Alice Hoffman recounts overhearing a heated confrontation between Glenn and a mutual acquaintance, Sandy Cleaver:
"He's saying, you guys are just buying a bunch of bullshit... Terry something." ([03:51])

This tension reached a breaking point by the winter of 1976 when Glenn and Terri decided to part ways. Terri began a relationship with Ben Johnson, a younger man who would become her third husband. Glenn, seeking independence from both the marriage and the organization, relocated to Flower Mound, Texas, hoping to find solace away from Dallas.

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Glenn Cooley's Mysterious Death

On February 2, 1977, Glenn Cooley's fate took a dark turn. Terri, along with Ben Johnson and follower Alice Hoffman, visited Glenn at his parents' cabin by Grapevine Lake. They found him dead in his bed, surrounded by an open can of beer and various pills. The scene suggested a possible overdose, with traces of foam at the corners of his mouth indicating non-responsiveness.

Alice Hoffman vehemently declares:
"There's no doubt she killed him." ([06:25])

Further adding to the suspicions, a handwritten will discovered in Terri's personal safe transferred all of Glenn's possessions to her, including property, vehicles, and personal items. Glenn's will cryptically references an "unknowable force" behind his death, dismissing personal conflicts or substance abuse as factors:
"It is not because of divorce with Terry, past drug experiences, inability to cope, etc. What it is I myself know but don't have the words for." ([20:06])

These inconsistencies and the suspicious timing of Glenn's death—shortly after his divorce from Terri—raise serious questions about the true nature of his demise.

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The Impact on the Hoffman Family

Glenn and Terri's union deeply affected the Hoffman family. Alice and Don Hoffman, Glenn's parents, were drawn into Terri's influence as they sought spiritual solace after the tragic accidental drowning of their baby boy, Michael, in 1975.

Rick Hoffman shares the family's internal struggles:
"Mom was calm at the time, and she was like, okay, you know, he had been taken over by Black Lords, and he needed to move on to the next plane of existence so that he didn't create bad karma for himself." ([24:33])

This belief in battling metaphysical entities, referred to as "Black Lords," became a cornerstone of Terri's teachings, further tightening her grip on the Hoffmans. The family's grappling with grief made them vulnerable to Terri's manipulative tactics, as they sought answers and healing.

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Terri Hoffman's Control and Influence

Terri Hoffman's methods extended beyond spiritual guidance into the realm of psychological manipulation and control. Her organization, CDBMS, employed techniques such as meditation sessions that superficially appeared benign but were infused with esoteric and fear-inducing subjects.

Rick Hoffman provides insight into Terri's deceptive practices:
"Terry would take people in that had just lost a loved one or that were grieving and that are vulnerable, and then she would prey on those vulnerabilities and give them answers that they want to hear, to kind of string them along." ([11:55])

Terri's influence was not limited to spiritual manipulation. She engaged in business ventures, such as selling jewelry under the guise of spiritual artifacts, which not only generated income but also served as a means to control and bind her followers financially and emotionally.

Her ability to manipulate and control her inner circle became increasingly apparent as more members, like Glenn and later Sandy Cleaver and Chuck Devereaux, met untimely and suspicious deaths. These incidents suggest a pattern of eliminating those who posed threats to her authority or who sought to break free from her influence.

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Conclusions and Implications

Episode 3 of "Scary Terri" paints a harrowing picture of Terri Hoffman's manipulative leadership and the devastating impact she had on those around her. Through the lens of Glenn Cooley's troubled marriage and subsequent death, the episode exposes the dark underbelly of spiritual cults and the lengths to which leaders like Terri will go to maintain control and eliminate opposition.

The Hoffman family's experiences highlight the tragic consequences of blind faith and the vulnerability of individuals in the aftermath of personal tragedies. As Hirsch continues to uncover the layers of deception and malfeasance surrounding Terri Hoffman, listeners are left to ponder the true extent of her influence and the sinister motives that may lie beneath her charismatic exterior.

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Notable Quotes

• Janet Hoffman on Glenn's perception of Terri:
  “He was that young, sandy brown hair. He wasn't super tall, five, eight, five nine, you know, he had a very kind of calming voice.” ([01:23])

• Alice Hoffman condemning Terri:
  “There's no doubt she killed him.” ([06:25])

• Rick Hoffman on Terri's manipulation:
  “Terry would take people in that had just lost a loved one or that were grieving and that are vulnerable, and then she would prey on those vulnerabilities and give them answers that they want to hear, to kind of string them along.” ([11:55])

• Glenn Cooley's Will reflecting confusion and possible external influence:
  “It is not because of divorce with Terry, past drug experiences, inability to cope, etc. What it is I myself know but don't have the words for.” ([20:06])

• Rick Hoffman describing his mother's realization:
  “I had a dream. And Terry was literally, like, blasting into flames. Like, she just burst into flames. And she became this evil, evil person.” ([30:01])

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Closing Thoughts

"Marital Issues" serves as a crucial chapter in the ongoing investigation of Terri Hoffman’s disturbing legacy. By examining the intricate dynamics of Glenn Cooley's marriage and untimely death, the episode underscores the perilous intersection of spirituality, manipulation, and power. As the series progresses, listeners can anticipate further revelations that shed light on Terri Hoffman's true nature and the dark forces that may have driven her actions.

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Transcript

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Listen to all episodes of Scary Terry ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge. Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to access wherever you listen the Binge Feed your true crime obsession the Binge before we get started, I just want to let you know that we do discuss suicide in this episode, so please listen with care. Glenn Cooley was a student at North Texas State when he met Terry. He started showing up at CDBMS meetings before he could even drink alcohol.

[Janet Hoffman]

He was that young, sandy brown hair. He wasn't super tall, five, eight, five nine, you know, he had a very kind of calming voice.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Glenn dropped out of college to be with her, and soon he became Terry's right hand man. He was 20 years old when they wed. She was more than 10 years his senior, so Terry had the upper hand in that way. But she was also his spiritual teacher, the one guiding his development, telling him how to think in counseling sessions. I got some insight into how Terry was behind closed doors with students thanks to those taped consultations with a follower named Dorothy. Terry could be charming, affable, a cheerleader if something good happened in your life, but also spent an awful lot of time telling Dorothy what to think. This went way beyond wanting to be revered as a teacher. At one point, it seems Terri was able to convince Dorothy that she had temporarily lost control of her own mind.

[Dorothy]

I was wondering too. Has anyone taken any of my faculties? Nobody else? I. I got your faculties back. Oh, you already got them back. I'm still in the process of working with them, but for the general purposes, we've got most of them back. Oh, that's quite a process. I understand. Well, that's wonderful. Yes, it is. It's lifetime. Have your faculties back. Yeah, you're busy. Busy being.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

If she had this much control over any old student, it's hard to imagine how much sway she had over Glenn, a young man who was totally dependent on her, who used to sit close to her in group meditations. So he could hold her hand. It must have been quite an unwelcome surprise for Terry when Glenn started thinking for himself, started questioning whether Terry was actually full of shit.

[Alice Hoffman]

She and Glenn were having marital problems.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janine from the last episode said the last time she saw him, he had just about had enough.

[Alice Hoffman]

I remember overhearing a conversation at Sandy Cleaver's. Sandy was expecting me, but she didn't know I'd gotten there because I'd come in the kitchen door, said hi to Wheezy, and moved on. Sandy was confronting Glenn and he was saying, you guys are just buying a bunch of bullshit. And Sandy said, that is not true. This is. And then she was explaining Terry's behavior, explaining Terri something. And he was animated and intense about questioning her or questioning what she was saying or questioning what she was doing. I never put that together either.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

By the winter of 1976, Glenn and Terry were splitting up. Glenn was moving on, and so was Terry. She'd started seeing Ben Johnson, another younger man who'd later become her third. Third husband. It was looking like Glenn Cooley had gotten out. Out of his marriage. Out of CDBMs. One night, February 2nd, just after the divorce was finalized, Glenn left Dallas for Flower Mound, Texas. It's a quiet community on Grapevine Lake, about 30 minutes outside the city. His parents had a cabin out there. It's this wide, pristine lake, perfect for summer sports on the water and for reflecting on your life after a long and tumultuous relationship that just ended. According to reports at the time, Terry, her new beau Ben, and another follower named Alice Hoffman went to the cabin. They wanted to check on him, but were horrified by what they saw. They opened the door and walked in. And there was Glenn, fully clothed and in his bed. An open can of beer on the nightstand, along with pills, Valium and an antianxiety drug. He laid there motionless, a foamy residue spilling out of the corners of his mouth. He was non responsive, dead on arrival.

[Alice Hoffman]

There's no doubt she killed him.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

These shark eyes, those cold, dark eyes.

[Alice Hoffman]

The most sophisticated sociopath I've ever observed.

[Janet Hoffman]

Left behind a series of bizarre diaries.

[Rick Hoffman]

And writings associated with Terry Hoffman and.

[Janet Hoffman]

A group she founded called the Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc.

[Alice Hoffman]

The payoff was going to be in the other spiritual realms. It was not going to be here.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Are those items that are used to.

[Rick Hoffman]

Control and combat shield against Black Lords? Are those your teachings?

[Alice Hoffman]

I invoke the Fifth Amendment. That it was a cult. I didn't know that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

From Sony Music Entertainment. This is Scary Terry. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Chapter 3 Marital Issues. Streaming now on Peacock. Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie are back.

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Glenn Cooley]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

For the people who got involved with Terry, faith was a bedrock of their lives. Many, if not most, had been raised in some sort of Christian denomination. CDBMS was a replacement for that faith and like their traditional faith, the glue that kept their families together. But in a twisted irony, it seemed that getting close to Terry could rip your family apart. Sandra, divorced Chuck Devereaux, died on the Huaylope Peninsula. Terry tried to break up Janine and her husband Rick. The list goes on and on. And now Glenn Cooley was dead. But when Don and Alice Hoffman joined, it wasn't so cut and dry. Hindsight being 20 20, the couple were deeply troubled. They were looking for that faith, that place of community for their children. They were desperate for answers. They needed to make sense of the unspeakable tragedy that had beset their family when their baby boy, Michael, accidentally drowned in the pool of their house in 1975.

[Janet Hoffman]

That was, as you can imagine, very devastating for my parents. Really caused the whole family to question, why would God take this little innocent boy away?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet was the middle child, Rick the oldest.

[Rick Hoffman]

I was nine years old.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

She watched her mom and dad spiral after the baby died.

[Rick Hoffman]

Mom blamed herself, of course, as any parent does, because he drowned. And then my parents were grieving a lot, and my mom was just, you know, sad all the time. And I guess so we started going to church and that helped a little bit.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The family bounced around to a number of churches.

[Rick Hoffman]

They were turning to God because, you know, they needed that comfort. And they felt like as a family, that would be a good thing to do.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And something about that tragedy had softened. Her father, Don Hoffman, he was a.

[Rick Hoffman]

Yeller, and you were not allowed to make mistakes, so that was kind of hard. And then my mom was kind of the opposite. She was more lenient to try to make up for him being so strict and hard on us. I was always really close to her. I can see now, as an adult, that he did love me. But growing up, I never believed that he loved me because he was so hard on me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But after the drowning, Don changed.

[Rick Hoffman]

He. I don't know if it's just losing a child. You appreciate the children you have.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The family was all dealing with the baby's death in their own way. But Alice and Dawn were focused on finding meaning and a spiritual path that would ease their pain. That's when Alice's sister introduced them to CDBMs and to Terry, who was Terri Cooley at the time, on account of her marriage to Glenn.

[Rick Hoffman]

That was her thing is, she would take people in that had just lost a loved one or that were grieving and that are vulnerable, and then she would prey on those vulnerabilities and give them answers that they want to hear, to kind of string them along.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Much like Sandra, Terri seemed to be drawing in Don and Alice through their grief, liberating them from their pain, but also indebting them to her. In the fog of that grief, no one in Janet's family could have imagined Terry to be the predator she really was. The Hoffman family started attending conscious development meetings. They'd been going to a Lutheran service before that.

[Rick Hoffman]

We would go and we would do meditations, and it seemed all innocent, and you'd feel better afterwards. So it kind of, like, sucked you in a little bit, like, okay, I still have my beliefs in God. This doesn't, like, go against that, of course.

[Janet Hoffman]

My parents first started reading Terry's writings, you know, so there were quite a few booklets, and she had a whole series of books that, you know, you could get and learn and everything.

[Rick Hoffman]

Terri also sold jewelry. So she had this big line of her jewelry, like stones and that kind of thing with gemstones and sterling silver.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This was the jewelry Sandra had begun selling with Terry that janine had spent 25k on. They'd incorporated into a business with the name CD. Gems and Jewelry.

[Rick Hoffman]

She made a bunch of stuff so that was all lined up against the wall. And then we would go in and people would kind of look at that, and then they would, you know, talk, and then we would all sit down, and then she Would talk just a little bit, but most of it was just the meditations. And she would have. Sometimes you would sit in the chair, sometimes you could, you know, find a spot on the floor to lay down and get comfortable. It's very relaxing. She would talk you through it. Like usually it was like, okay, let's you know, envision a swimming pool and you jumping into that pool and cleansing all your bad energy out of your body and that kind of thing.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And of course, Terri was front and center in all of this. Though she hadn't made much of an impression on Janet.

[Rick Hoffman]

I didn't really think much of her. She was kind of a large lady and she was actually kind of scary looking to be honest. She had long black hair and she was a lot older than that picture that comes up on Google.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

She said the talks would sometimes veer into these esoteric subjects like the planes of existence and things like dark forces that needed to be combated. The black lords. But for the most part, she felt like it was a welcoming place for her as a kid. At first she remembered Glenn Cooley, Terry's husband, when they joined cdbms, being very friendly. And Ben Johnson too. The man Terry would wed after Glenn.

[Rick Hoffman]

Ben, he. Yeah, so he was this long haired hippie. He came to my house and taught me how to play the guitar, taught me a couple of things. I had an electric guitar at the time. House of the Rising sun. The very beginning to Stairway to Heaven. He was probably a weed smoking dude, you know. Of course at the time I wouldn't have known that, but it was just very hippie, laid back.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Terry no doubt had a type. Younger hippie, ish, a bit wounded perhaps. Impressionable. Certainly seems like some kind of pattern was beginning to emerge. But in the mid-70s, according to Janine, talk of black lords and fighting against evil, energies and spirits starting to dominate the messaging at cdbms.

[Janet Hoffman]

Glenn was very unhappy with his life, that he was struggling as a jewelry maker, that his marriage to Terry was not going well. Just seems like there were a lot of. And again, I'm, I'm. I think we piecemeal some of that together with just some of the discussions we had had here and there.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's when Glenn cut bait. And not long after he was found dead alone in his parents cabin on February 2, 1977. But here Terry was now, for the fourth time, a mysterious and inexplicable death in her orbit. And while she would claim to grieve, the message to her flock belied any grief or remorse. In fact what members of cdbms were led to believe was that Glenn's suicide was grist for the mill, another step up the stairway to heaven. An evolution, not an end to life.

[Janet Hoffman]

Glenn's death was definitely a stage thing that they knew about and expected to happen.

[Rick Hoffman]

So he needed to move on to the next plane of existence. So Terry and one other person went to a cabin with him and he overdosed. I don't know who it was.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He'd left beer and pills on the nightstand. But he'd left something else too, in the safe at Terry's house, which she'd only noticed after his death. A will giving away everything he owned, including the house he shared with his wife. Terry Cooley.

[Rick Hoffman]

Come to me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Rick Hoffman]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Glenn Cooley's Will]

I, Glenn Cooley, give to Terry Cooley all of my property, both personal and real. This includes two boats, a 1972 Buick Limited, all jewelry and equipment for its making, all furnishings for the house on Dunhaven Road, and all cash.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

According to Terry, she'd return to her home, the home she owned with Glenn on Dunhaven Road in Dallas, to find a handwritten document from Glenn in her personal safe. It was his last will and testament.

[Glenn Cooley's Will]

I ask that this last will of mine not be contested by anyone in any way, for any reason. Last but not least, I give all my love to all my family and friends.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It appears as any last will and testament might at first. But when I read the next lines, I felt that familiar chill. Something wasn't quite right.

[Glenn Cooley's Will]

As explanation for all this. I can't really say what it is because of, but I can say what it is not because of. It is not because of divorce with Terry, past drug experiences, inability to cope, etc. What it is I myself know but don't have the words for.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't blame this On Terry or Glenn's personal history. Glenn made it sound like some big unknowable force played a part in his death. The Black Lords, perhaps. Terry told police that before Glenn's death he appeared depressed. That she'd even advised him not to go to the cabin alone. There were discrepancies about what happened next. A former member, Anonymous, told police Terry visited Glenn the night before. On the way there, she said it was time for Glenn to cross over, to exit the realm of the living. Rick suspects it was his mother, Alice, who accompanied Terry that night and gave her account to the police. When the two entered the cabin that evening, Glenn told them he'd already downed the fatal dose. But they didn't call 911. They accepted his fate. Other accounts say Terry and at least one other person arrived once Glenn was unresponsive, foaming at the mouth the next day. We'll never know what happened for sure. But one thing is certain. There's something strange about how each one of these wills specifically calls out Terry's character. Devereaux describes her as a second mother. Glenn discourages his family from contesting the will or tying his death to his divorce. With Terry, it's all oddly personal and convenient. And there was, as with Devereaux and Sandra, something of a motive. The house they share his nominal property. But this wasn't some tremendous windfall. However, if Glenn were to decide to cross over, it would be helpful. An early member of CDBMS who knew Terry better than anyone, who loudly dissented against her practices of bloodletting and fighting. The Black Lords, who fought her closest follower, Sandra, in the living room for all to hear and whom she eventually divorced. It'd be nice to not have him hanging over you, wouldn't it? But the message that trickled down to the faithful was a clever spinning of a deadly yarn. A message of hope, if you could believe it. After Glenn died, Janet's parents sat her and her brother Rick down and delivered the news.

[Janet Hoffman]

My mom was good at communicating those kinds of things, so I don't think she mentioned that she happened to find. But she did tell us. She sat down and explained that he had OD'd on some medicine and that he was now dead.

[Rick Hoffman]

My mom told me about it, and they were really upset. I mean, it was weird because it was like the first death that had happened. And at the time it was like, well, here's the deal, you know, they weren't like, oh, my God.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Normal enough for a parent to talk through a tragedy like this with her kids. And perhaps not strange that Glenn's death didn't raise any alarm bells for her. After all, Glenn did have a history of substance abuse. But still, the talk Alice and Don had with their kids was odd. They seemed to believe it was more than drugs that snatched Glenn from the realm of the living.

[Rick Hoffman]

It was more like, my mom was calm at the time, and she was like, okay, you know, he had been taken over by Black Lords, and he needed to move on to the next plane of existence so that he didn't create bad karma for himself.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Here we go again with the Black Lords.

[Rick Hoffman]

And it was just, like, very matter of fact, you know, this is what we believe, and this is what's happened. And not like, oh, my God, this man just killed himself. It wasn't as, like, the reality, their reality had been skewed to think that this is okay because of this, because this is what we believe.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet, at this point in her life, was not especially close to her father, Don. And that feeling only grew as the years wore on. And he became closer and closer to Terry.

[Rick Hoffman]

He didn't really talk about it. He was kind of quiet. And my mom was always the one that would talk to me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet and Rick were shocked, disturbed to hear about Glenn's death. But at the time, they accepted the version of events their parents relayed to them.

[Rick Hoffman]

Part of me is like, doing the freak out thing, like, this isn't right. And then the other part of me is, like, wanting to believe, well, this is what my mom said. And I had complete 100% trust in my mom. So, like, parents have so much control. Like, they can convince you of anything. They can brainwash you. They can convince their children that this is okay, because this is how it is, and this is the truth. This is the way, you know, this is it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

At this point, it's becoming clear to me that Terry is operating something more than a front for her jewelry business or a loosely affiliated meditation group. This is a culture. But Janet and Rick had no idea. They just saw their parents falling in deeper and deeper with Terry. Over time, tears began to form within the group.

[Rick Hoffman]

We eventually became part of the middle circle, and then we became part of the inner circle.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This seemed to be the direction the Hoffman family was going in conscious development, followers. Until tragedy struck again after Devereaux died.

[Rick Hoffman]

My mom was like, I'm out. This is really scary stuff.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alice and dawn had found Terry after the death of their child, a senseless drowning. Everyone in their way felt responsible.

[Janet Hoffman]

My parents really never recovered from losing Michael. It was just too Big of a hit to their relationship and just everything. I mean, no parent should ever have to bury their children.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And now another child has drowned. Except her death, like Glenn's, was being viewed through the lens of Terry's warped cosmology. But after Devereaux's death, Alice just wasn't the same.

[Rick Hoffman]

She woke up, she realized how messed up this thing was, and she told me her thoughts on it. She wanted me to come to my own conclusion. After Devereux died, my mom was like. I guess because it was a child that they targeted, she just pulled out. She was like, just so you know, I don't think this is right. And I'm not going to the meetings anymore. She goes, you're. You're welcome to go to the meetings if you want to, but I'm not going to go. This is what was happening. This is what had happened. And she told me after Devereux had passed away what had happened.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet's parents were now part of a close knit circle surrounding Terry. They saw things that others did not.

[Rick Hoffman]

Sandy Cleaver was very wealthy, and Devereaux had a pretty big trust fund. And so I know Terry wanted to eliminate both of them because she knew the money would just go to her daughter. So she told Sandy that her daughter had been taken over by black lords and she needed to move on to the next plane of existence, but she was going to need help transitioning. And they went out on that little raft in a no swim area in Hawaii where all the coral reefs were. And the idea was they would both make it look like an accident because they'd come in and they'd get all cut up and drown. Well, Devereaux drowned.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So Gail's suspicions that Sandra and Devereaux were both supposed to die that day are confirmed, at least according to Alice.

[Rick Hoffman]

Yeah, she told me what had happened, and she said that Devereaux and Sandy were both supposed to die in that accident. But somehow Sandy didn't end up dying, ended up in the hospital.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This was not what Alice had signed up for. Janet and Rick and her husband Don were welcome to keep going to CDBMS meetings. She was done.

[Rick Hoffman]

I still went with my dad a few more times to the meetings. And I brought my friend with me. And she was like, I had a dream. And Terry was literally, like, blasting into flames. Like, she just burst into flames. And she became this evil, evil person. And she was laughing, and it was just really interesting. And so she saw right through her. And I was like, oh, wow. So I really. After that, I didn't go anymore either. I decided that I didn't want to be part of that. It was just too crazy.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

What Janet didn't know was that things were going to get much weirder and much worse because Terry had Janet's father in her sights. She wasn't content to have him him as her follower. She wanted him as her lover. Next time on Scary Terry.

[Rick Hoffman]

Terry kept a tightrope around him. She would always convince them that something bad has happened. Black lords have attacked you. You're not going to be safe. You're going to endanger your family if you stay alive. I remember screaming going, that's a bunch of, you know, she screaming that out going, oh, great, so she's done it again.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't want to wait for the next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Scary Terry ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast Channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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