Scary Terri | 4. Becoming Mrs. Hoffman

Summary

Summary of "The Binge Cases: Scary Terri" Episode 4 - "Becoming Mrs. Hoffman"

Introduction

In the fourth episode of The Binge Cases titled "Becoming Mrs. Hoffman," investigative reporter Jonathan Hirsch delves deeper into the enigmatic and sinister influence of Terri Hoffman, a spiritual leader based in Dallas, Texas. This episode focuses on the tumultuous relationship between Terri and the Hoffman family, particularly exploring how Terri’s manipulations led to the tragic downfall of Don and Alice Hoffman between 1977 and 1989. Through personal accounts, recorded messages, and legal battles, Hirsch unravels the layers of deceit, control, and ultimately, death that surround Terri Hoffman.

The Hoffman Family’s Descent into Turmoil

The narrative begins with the strained relationship between Don and Alice Hoffman as they grapple with the aftermath of their baby Michael’s death. Their grief makes them vulnerable to Terri Hoffman's influence.

• Janet Hoffman recounts, “He and Terry were very involved at that point and my mom was really unhappy. He would yell and scream at my mom a lot...” (02:31).

As the Hoffmans decide to divorce, Terri becomes a wedge between them, intensifying the emotional distance within the family.

• Janet Hoffman describes the divorce proceedings: “They said, we’re getting a divorce, we’re going to sell the house, and when we sell the house, we’re going to move to Bedford...” (02:43).

Terri’s Manipulative Control Over Don Hoffman

Post-divorce, Don Hoffman becomes increasingly entangled with Terri, who leverages his need to care and support her burgeoning spiritual enterprises.

• Janet Hoffman observes, “She fed his ego by having him be very involved in creating these instruments, shields, swords, weapons, to fight off black lords...” (04:15).

Terri’s influence turns Don from a husband into a devoted servant, as he immerses himself in Terri’s multiple businesses, including jewelry, perfume, and counseling services.

• Rick Hoffman notes, “Don would spend a ton of time running her businesses... taking care of their properties...” (11:20).

The Marriage and Life Under Terri’s Roof

Don and Terri’s marriage appears outwardly devoted but is marked by frustration and manipulation behind closed doors. Terri presents herself as a spiritual guru, while her true nature reveals chaos and control.

• Rick Hoffman describes Terri’s home environment: “Terry was a hoarder... she had four or five storage units in the backyard that she stuffed full of stuff...” (14:22).

Despite outward appearances, Terri’s true intentions and manipulative tactics create an unstable and oppressive living situation for the Hoffman family.

Don Hoffman’s Mysterious Death

In the fall of 1988, Don Hoffman’s sudden death becomes the catalyst for uncovering the dark truths behind Terri’s influence. Terri informs the family of Don’s supposed terminal cancer, pushing the narrative that he took his life to avoid being a burden.

• Don Hoffman’s Message: “I went to the doctor when I got back and he ran some tests and found that I had terminal, nonoperable cancer...” (21:13).

However, discrepancies arise when Rick and Janet discover that multiple doctors confirmed the cancer diagnosis, yet no medical records support this claim.

• Janet Hoffman vehemently rejects Terri’s explanation: “He didn't die of cancer. He didn't have cancer... You know, that’s a bunch of bullshit.” (20:58).

Suspicion and Legal Pursuits

Convinced that Terri manipulated Don into taking his life, Rick and Janet pursue a wrongful death suit against her. They gather evidence through recordings and by sifting through Terri’s trash, seeking proof of her coercion and deceit.

• Jonathan Hirsch explains the legal challenges: “The barrier to proof in a wrongful death suit is quite different than in a criminal case...”

Their investigation reveals Terri’s continued manipulation, as evidenced by suspicious behaviors and the absence of a legitimate medical cause for Don’s death.

• Rick Hoffman reflects, “I’m pretty convinced that she... leveraged what created the most issues for people... to take their life.” (35:40).

Revelations and Unveiling the Truth

The autopsy report is a turning point, revealing high concentrations of MDMA and Ecstasy in Don’s system, contradicting Terri’s claims of a natural death due to cancer.

• Janet Hoffman exposes Terri’s deception: “There was no cancer. Like, of course, there’s no cancer...” (32:22).

Further evidence surfaces from recordings that Terri made after Don’s death, subtly portraying their relationship to reinforce her image as a benevolent spiritual leader while masking her malevolent actions.

• Terry G. states in a recording: “Don and I had a perfect sex life... totally pure.” (36:57).

Conclusion

"Becoming Mrs. Hoffman" paints a chilling portrait of Terri Hoffman’s manipulative control over the Hoffman family, leading to Don’s untimely death. Through the Hoffmans’ relentless pursuit of the truth and the uncovering of Terri’s false narratives, the episode underscores the devastating impact of spiritual manipulation and deceit. Jonathan Hirsch effectively weaves personal testimonies with investigative findings, offering listeners a compelling and unsettling glimpse into the dark underbelly of Terri Hoffman’s influence.

Notable Quotes

• Janet Hoffman on the divorce: “They said, we’re getting a divorce, we’re going to sell the house...” (02:43).
• Rick Hoffman on Terri’s control: “She was pushing him hard to take care of things and manage her businesses...” (16:58).
• Don Hoffman’s Recorded Message: “I had terminal, nonoperable cancer... I decided that I would not put all my loved ones through that kind of an ordeal.” (21:13; 22:00; 23:01).

This episode not only delves into the initial unraveling of the Hoffman family but also sets the stage for further exploration into Terri Hoffman’s dark influence and the lives lost under her sway.

Transcript

[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Rick Hoffman]

The Binge.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Before we get started, I just want to let you know that this episode does discuss suicide, so please listen with care. Alice Hoffman had seen and heard enough and she knew where the bodies were buried. She heard Terry claim that Devereaux was possessed by the Black Lords just months before she died. She'd gone to the cabin that day and found Glenn Cooley dead of an overdose. Enough was enough. She was ready to leave Terry even if her husband wasn't.

[Janet Hoffman]

He and Terry were very involved at that point and my mom was really unhappy. He would yell and scream at my mom a lot and they said that they were going to get a divorce.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alice and dawn would break up, but it wasn't a clean break.

[Janet Hoffman]

So this is the weird part. Basically they said, we're getting a divorce, we're going to sell the house, and when we sell the house, we're going to move to Bedford. And we're going to live in an apartment until the house sells, and then we're going to split the money and go our separate ways.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And Janet was the only kid left in the house with them.

[Janet Hoffman]

We moved, and at this point, my brother had gone off to college.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet said her mom started drinking more heavily during this time. Sharing space with her soon to be ex would upset her. She'd want to escape, go to the.

[Janet Hoffman]

Bar, and I'd be like, mom, just stay at home. Just talk to me. And she wouldn't talk to us.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don and Alice were going through so much at the time that they couldn't really be there for their kids.

[Janet Hoffman]

My brother and I just had all the freedom in the world. There was really not much parental supervision at that point. Just because they were so involved in their emotional turmoil.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alice started seeing somebody else. And dawn, he got consumed with CDBMs and with Terry.

[Janet Hoffman]

My dad had a pretty big ego, I feel like. And she fed his ego by having him be very involved in creating these.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Instruments, shields, swords, weapons, to fight off black lords.

[Janet Hoffman]

We had a garage and he had a little workshop. And he would, like, solder these, like, copper piping together into these different shapes. And basically she had him convinced that he was help fighting the evil of the world. That's like the ultimate to be a savior, you know, and she knew that's what he needed.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But yet again, Terry was becoming a wedge, working things to her advantage.

[Janet Hoffman]

And I could see the separation between my parents because she was starting to favor him at that time and have him do all this stuff. And then my mom kind of started to take a step back.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janet didn't really know who to believe. It was unsettling. Her mom left Terry's group while her dad doubled down on it.

[Janet Hoffman]

It was pretty much them living together in this fake life, and my dad was just hardly ever around. And then eventually they sold the house, and then he moved into his own apartment.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

After that, the relationship was all but over.

[Rick Hoffman]

Just seeing the family break up was just a. It was just a tough thing for me at that time. And of course, I'm only 19 at this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Rick said he felt like his parents never really came back from the death of their baby, Michael. Their grief was what drove them ultimately to Terry, and it seemed Terry ultimately drove them apart.

[Rick Hoffman]

Terry made up stories about stuff mom had done that wasn't quite true. These stories about her fooling around with other men, which I don't believe she ever did did.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The divorce moved along quickly after that.

[Janet Hoffman]

She had to sign some kind of waiver to approve it or something weird like that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don needed the mother of his children to sign a waiver during their divorce proceedings, because in Texas during this time, an ex needed to sign a waiver expediting a divorce if their former partner wanted to enter into another marriage contract. Which is exactly what Don Hoffman wanted to do.

[Janet Hoffman]

And then the next thing you know, he and Terry are getting married in.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Sickness and in health. Til death do us part. Well, til death do one of us part from Sony Music Entertainment. This is scary Terry. I'm Jonathan Hirsch becoming Mrs. Hoffman.

[Dolores]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

In the counseling sessions between Dolores and Terry, there's a chumminess. Taken out of context, they sound like two middle aged ladies gossiping about their love life. At one point, Terry talks to Dolores about Dawn.

[Terry G.]

Don and I had a perfect sex life. I mean, I can't think of anybody that I've never known. Anybody that's had one any better. Yes, we would take time off to go up to Oklahoma. We would make love just all day long.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

She seemed to be bragging about their sexual connection in those phone calls.

[Terry G.]

The love that Don and I had and when we made love, which is totally pure. Yes, I've never made love to anybody like I made love. I've never even made love to anybody before I married Don with any of our husbands. After being with Don, I don't even consider what I had with them. Making love.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It was so good. After dawn, she would never want for another.

[Terry G.]

I could have gone to bed with so many people in my lifetime, but I never would because of their energies. I didn't want to exchange energies with crummy people.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Terri made it seem to Dorothy like Dawn was her one true love.

[Terry G.]

We would make a love just all day long. We just take some cheese and chop ham and eat some. Eat pickles and cheese and chopped ham and maybe grapes or something the whole day making love. And we do that twice. Twice a weekend. Oh, boy.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To each their own. But chopped ham, cheese, and pickles in the hot Oklahoma sun isn't my idea of a sexy getaway. But it's clear from these conversations that Terry was quite enamored with Don, or at least wanted Dorothy to think so much to the bafflement of Don's children.

[Rick Hoffman]

I remember the apartment he was living in not too far from Terry over there in Dallas, and remember him telling me that he had started dating her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Rick couldn't believe it. A spiritual teacher who wore moo moose.

[Rick Hoffman]

I found that very interesting because, as I described before, Terry's, from a physical perspective, isn't the most attractive person. And I think I did question him. I'm like, you know, why Terry? And it felt like he talked more about the need to help her, to help her with her businesses, to help her with the books.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don had a need to care for Terri, to help her and support her. He didn't make it seem like they were wildly in love, More like how you might care for a family member who's ailing. A mother, a divine mother, perhaps.

[Rick Hoffman]

He would spend a ton of time running her businesses, you know, whether it was making cassette tapes for some of the lessons, you know, getting books printed, going and taking care of their properties. I went camping with him a couple of times up at Cripple Creek and then spending hours in the documents looking for mineral rights for the land that they owned and things like that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don was less her lover than he was perhaps her servant, her devotee, a man who wouldn't question her.

[Janet Hoffman]

Unfortunately, my brother and I were in the wedding with her daughters because we didn't know how to say no. You know, like, that was our dad. Okay, you want us to be in the wedding?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay.

[Janet Hoffman]

We were like.

[Rick Hoffman]

I remember my dad making fun of me not shaving for the wedding, but, yeah, I mean, it was the typical conscious development crowd and the usual suspects that were there. Terry was wearing, I think it was a light blue dress, as I recall.

[Janet Hoffman]

I remember some lady singing Amazing Grace. And to this day, I cannot stand to hear that song because it reminds me so much of that day. We were concerned about my dad, that he would Maybe be the next one to go. Seems like when Terry gets tired of her husbands, she convinces them to end their life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

After that, like an explosion, shards of their lives together spun out in different directions. Alice would also get married again.

[Rick Hoffman]

Now she ended up getting, you know, meeting a man pretty quickly and getting remarried pretty quickly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Then their mother didn't really want to talk about CDBMs anymore. Janet moved out and would eventually marry too, have a career and a family of her own. Rick seemed to be the one member of the family who stayed close to Don, kept contact with dad after he married his spiritual teacher. Rick showed up at the house one day where Don lived with Terry and her daughters.

[Rick Hoffman]

She was like, oh, I guess you need to eat food, huh? So she's like, oh, okay, let me, let me go round up some money. And so she went and rounded up like eight bucks or so and gave it to me and said, here you go, Go buy whatever you want.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

At first, Terri tried to make some effort to act like a stepmother.

[Rick Hoffman]

She got over that pretty quickly. That was about the only time when she's like, oh, yeah, I guess you're now my step stepson, so I guess I need to feed you, huh?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Their marriage seemed like an afterthought. But because he was her stepson, Rick got to see what Terry's private life was like. And what he saw wasn't always pretty.

[Rick Hoffman]

Terry was a hoarder. So their house was like a typical hoarder's where you had paths to work your way through the living room and into the other rooms. The table was full of crap, and, you know, there just wasn't a lot of room in that house, as I recall. I think she had four or five storage units in the backyard that she stuffed full of stuff. It was just nutty.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Her daughter Virginia lived at Terry's house with her boyfriend John in an extension.

[Rick Hoffman]

There was kind of a master bedroom that was built up over the garage. So she lived up there, and it had its own separate entrance that she could come and go. And she lived up there with her boyfriend who mainly, from what I remember, sold pot. And I remember them smoking pot all the time up there. You could smell it on that end of the house.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Rick doesn't remember her having a job.

[Rick Hoffman]

I think they basically sold drugs to get the money that they had for it and stuff like that. So I just, I remember one in this one. This is kind of a gross story, so you may have to cut it out of this podcast, but Terri used to do a lot of what she called Energy work. It was basically massage therapy, and she had learned it over in India and everything else. And I remember her giving me a massage that was. I mean, I have to admit she was very talented. I just remember with John, one time, we were sitting there watching TV or something like that, and Terry offered to give him a massage. And he's like, okay, yeah, great. And she goes, all right, we'll lose the pants. And so off comes his pants, and he's got a big brown spot on the back of his underwear like he shit himself. I'm just like, oh, well, that's a little embarrassing. And he has no idea that he's done this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Terri wanted her followers to see her as an embodiment of Christ, a loving, psychic, spiritual mother. TERI G. But her living situation belied that image. Her home looked less like something you'd imagine gracing the halls of the afterlife and more like something you'd see late night on reruns of Lifetime.

[Rick Hoffman]

She would portray herself as this very advanced spiritual guru. She knew all the masters, she had all the information. But in real life, in living with her, you saw a whole different picture, right, of somebody who didn't have a lot of class, was very demanding on my dad, I remember, and pushed him hard to take care of things and manage her businesses and all that kind of stuff.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Over the years, Janet and Rick saw their father grow tired, seemingly exhausted by the amount of things Terry demanded he do for her. By now, Terri had launched a variety of businesses for her. Jewelry, perfume business, massage business, counseling business.

[Janet Hoffman]

Terry kept a tightrope around him, and we were worried that she was going to grow tired of him, grow tired.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of having him around. Wouldn't be the first time, not even the second. In 1988, Rick and his wife gave birth to their first child. Don came to visit them in the hospital, and he told his son that things had been tough lately, that him.

[Rick Hoffman]

And Terry weren't getting along. He was actually thinking about a divorce and things like that. I remember him point blank saying that, which I found surprising because, well, they had only been married eight years, but, you know, it was. He was pretty dedicated to her businesses and all those kinds of things. But I think he was starting to get fed up with just everything going on and people dying.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don told him he wanted out. Nothing about the conversation worried Rick, though candidly. Rick didn't think it was such a bad idea. It was time to say goodbye and good riddance to Terry G. A few months later, Jana got a phone call.

[Janet Hoffman]

From their mom, Alice, and she Told me that he died and that he basically took his life because he was dying of cancer. And this is what they told her. He was dying of cancer and he did not want to be a burden to his family, so he killed himself in the hotel. And I remember screaming going, he didn't die of cancer. He didn't have cancer. You know, that's a bunch of bullshit. You know, I just remember screaming that out going, oh, great. So she's done it. Baking Hershey's Kisses peanut butter blossoms is the perfect way to celebrate the holiday season with friends and family with their classic rich, creamy milk chocolate taste. There's no better way to heartwarm the holidays than by baking with Kisses chocolates. Find Hershey's Kisses holiday chocolates at your favorite retailer.

[Advertiser]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Whoa.

[Janet Hoffman]

The Energizer bunny's got so, so much power. Wait, he's powered up all the toys. I think that means we're done for the year. I love this bunny.

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[Don Hoffman]

I'm sorry to have to put you through this this way. I love you all very much and you always hate to hurt the ones you love.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In the fall of 1988, dawn recorded three messages on VHS. One for Terry and her daughters, one for CDBMS, and one for his kids, Rick and Janet.

[Don Hoffman]

I had a lot of trouble breathing up in Colorado this year. I went to the doctor when I got back and he ran some tests and found that I had terminal, nonoperable cancer. I wasn't too thrilled about that announcements, so I went to a second doctor. He told me the same thing. So just to be sure, I went to a third doctor and he told me the same thing.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

One video goes on for 40 minutes. Don is in their bedroom at Terry's house in Dallas, sitting at the edge of the bed in a white and blue striped shirt, unbuttoned in the front. It had always been a fear of Don's. His kids remembered to waste away from a disease like cancer.

[Rick Hoffman]

Dad worked at Brackenridge Hospital here in Austin when he was in college. And he would see when somebody got cancer. He made up his mind then if he ever got cancer, then he would just take his life and get it over with.

[Don Hoffman]

I've seen what chemotherapy does to people puts them through a lot of pain and a lot of suffering and a lot of agony. It seems like 95% of the time, they just suffer for another six months or a year and then die.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don is withdrawn in the video, disassociated, at least to me. And perhaps that's how anyone might look on a video like this.

[Don Hoffman]

I decided that I would not put all my loved ones through that kind of an ordeal.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He also seems deliberate, like he'd thought through all the possible reasons to take his life. And this was, without question, the path resolute.

[Janet Hoffman]

He didn't want us to have to watch him. But again, she made him feel like the hero. Oh, you're being a hero. You know, first you're killing evil spirits, now you're going to be a hero because now your family doesn't have to deal with you.

[Rick Hoffman]

And of course, she. That very first meeting, our very first call, she's, you know, telling us that, oh, he had cancer. Three different doctors that told him he had cancer. It was inoperable, you know, And I'm thinking, oh, shit.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He chose a Hilton Hotel in Las Colinas, Texas.

[Don Hoffman]

I'm sure you've heard of my death, and I'm sorry to have to put you through this this way.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The cause of death appeared to be a fatal cocktail of prescription medication, an overdose. When the police showed up at Terri's home to notify her of Dawn's death, she said she didn't even know he had cancer. The police informed her of the drugs that were in Don's system. She said she knew he took pills, but made it seem like a doctor had prescribed them, not her. Don's autopsy no doubt revealed drugs in his system, but not what you might expect. The highest concentration of any scheduled substance in his body. Mdma, Ecstasy.

[Rick Hoffman]

So it was actually Terry that communicated that he had died to us. And I remember again also thinking, holy shit, I can't believe dad got sucked into the to the death ring as everybody else. But it looks like he did.

[Don Hoffman]

Ricky, you're gonna have to be strong now. Don't keep all of your emotions bottled up inside. Take it, cork off the bottle and let some of that stuff out. I'm very proud of both of you. You understand? Janet, I'm sorry. I don't have any money to send you through school.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He'd left instructions for his children as well, about his plans.

[Don Hoffman]

I left everything in my will to Terry so that we could avoid paying estate taxes. Government takes a big chunk if they get a chance so this way she won't have to pay any estate taxes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like many people before him, Don left everything to Terry for reasons that still remain so unbelievable. After all these years of talking to people in her orbit, I can still hardly believe it.

[Don Hoffman]

Where in St. Francis of Assisi goes something like it. And it is in dying that you are born to eternal life. I firmly believe that death is just a transition from one life to another life. Not afraid of death. So I'm gonna be in a much better place for the first time in a long time. I won't be in any more pain when I guess I'll wind this up to see. I love all of you very much. I wish I could be around in the physical. I'll be around only at elevens. But I just wish I could be here to help you tonight. I won't be here, Alvin. Y'all love one another.

[Janet Hoffman]

We, like, knew right away what had happened. And so my brother pretended for, like, you know, the first three days or first week, my brother went with Terri to the funeral home and help make arrangements and stuff. And he also noticed how, like, cold she was. Like, she wasn't even upset. And how the guy at the funeral home asked what my dad did for a living. She just said, oh, he didn't work. And my brother's like, yeah, he did. He did all those massages for people all day long every day. So he made them put masseuse. And I remember he got so mad because she did that. And, you know, he just played it cool like, you know, I believe you. I'm going along with this just because this is just part of that process. But we will get you, you know, knowing full well that we were going to do something, because this is not right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Jim Barklow, the attorney who repped Croom in contesting Sandra Cleaver's will, heard about what happened with Don.

[Janet Hoffman]

He reached out to my brother and introduced himself and said that he would like to represent us or whatever.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In March of 89, Janet and Rick met with Jim.

[Rick Hoffman]

So we file the wrongful death suit.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The barrier to proof in a wrongful death suit is quite different than in a criminal case. You need to prove intent, and you need evidence of the act of murder, circumstantial or otherwise. The smoking gun, as they say in a wrongful death suit, you need only prove that the defendant, Terry, in this case had directly or indirectly, whether intended or not, caused a person's death. That didn't mean a conviction was guaranteed, but certainly the bar was lower. And these cases Are also expensive. It's pretty common for parties to come to an out of court settlement Rather than let a lengthy trial play out. Almost immediately, the Hoffmans began to compile evidence, Recording phone calls and rooting around in her trash.

[Janet Hoffman]

My ex husband David would go over there every day and get their trash because it's not illegal. And he would go through the trash on our bow, in our apartment outside.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They were in search of anything that would prove Terri had reason to coerce Don into taking his life and that she took steps to do so.

[Janet Hoffman]

I remember one time he found my dad's watch and a note that he had written to Terry telling her about how much he loves her and stuff. And I'm like, why would you throw that away? Your husband just died and you just throw a love note and his watch away in the fricking trash? You fucking monster. I'm sorry. Like, no. And that just fueled the anger that we had. How evil, really see how evil she really was, like, heartless.

[Rick Hoffman]

It was very. Just devastating. I mean, dad was only 50 when he died, right? That's just nuts.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Rick started recording his phone calls with Terry, taking notes on everything she said. Both siblings now believed she'd had a hand in his death. They could never find any medical professional that affirmed a cancer diagnosis for Don. Terry had been pushing to have Don cremated immediately after he died. But fortunately, because of the fact that he died in a different county than he'd resided in, an autopsy was in fact performed on.

[Janet Hoffman]

The autopsy report came out. There was no cancer. Like, of course there's no cancer. And Terry's response was, well, the black lord's hid it. It's like she's got an answer for everything.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Had Terri known Don had wanted to leave her? Had she grown tired of him? Some accounts of the time indicated that Terry had seemed irritated by Don. He'd been having some breathing issues of late, which I guess annoyed her, I.

[Janet Hoffman]

Don'T know, because my dad didn't have any money. He had a desk. That's all he had. That's all he brought away with him from the divorce, was a desk.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Through the years, Janet has given a lot of thought to how Terri convinced her dad. How she took an intelligent man, made him her servant, told him he had cancer, then urged him to take his own life. Part of it is she made her followers believe that death was not final.

[Janet Hoffman]

It's not bad to kill yourself because you're just moving. You're not dying, you're moving on to the next plane of existence. And so she would always convince them that something bad has happened. Black Lords have attacked you. You're not going to be safe. You're going to endanger your family if you stay alive. You're going to, you know, stuff like that. She makes them think they're doing this heroic thing by taking their life and moving on to the next plane of existence, you know, and it's like she feeds on this vocabulary and this belief system so that when it's time to conveniently make them move on, you know, they don't see it as, oh my God, I'm actually killing myself, I'm leaving my family forever. You know what I mean? It's, it's. They. They minimize death, they minimize the importance of it, you know?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

After Don died, Rick called up one of Terry's daughters and asked if he could come over and get some of his dad's things.

[Rick Hoffman]

His guns were magically locked up or something like that because he had a. He had an old.22 rifle that I grew up shooting and, and learning how to shoot. He had a double barreled 12 gauge shotgun and he had a.30 06 and never did find those. But she let me take some of his other stuff, including his bracelet that he wore. And then eventually I ended up getting his big opal that he also wore around his neck. I don't think Terry would have been as open to allow me to go get some of his stuff. But, you know, you could tell Kathy was feeling bad about dad.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It continued to baffle Rick and Janet and spoke perhaps to an even darker intent on Terri's part. She wasn't just interested in the financial waterfall these deaths might provide her. Perhaps in Don's case, she just wanted to get rid of him.

[Rick Hoffman]

I'm pretty convinced that she, you know, convinced him. Terry's typical mode was to find out what created the most issues for people and then leverage that against them to do things like take their life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And this twisted strategy would make a criminal conviction all but impossible. No smoking gun, no murder charge. If the DA can't make a case stick against Terri, maybe they could stop her for good this time. The body count was just too high. But that's not what happened. Something interesting came up in the process of reporting this story. Remember those counseling sessions between Terry and Dorothy? Turns out two people provided those tapes to us. One was anonymous and wished to remain so. And the second set of tapes were stashed away in Rick's attic collecting dust for years. They're the same recordings. And Rick can't remember how he got access to them. But there is one distinction on Rick's tapes, the recordings have dates. And that conversation Terri had, the one about eating chopped ham and making love all day to Don, the love that.

[Terry G.]

Don and I had and when we made love, was just totally pure.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They were recorded after Don's suicide, a bizarre reminiscence about your dead spouse. The kind of thing you might say to subtly compel your most faithful followers into believing that you could never dream of harming a man that you just love so much. But like everything else in Terry's world, the dreams were more like nightmares. Nightmares. Nightmares that most certainly always came true. Next on Scary Terry.

[Rick Hoffman]

They were two searchers who were really, really tortured and went deeper and deeper and deeper into dark places at the very time that they were being persuaded that they were going to light places. These journals describe increasing confusion, frustration, and then ultimately physical discomfort at how messed up life seemed to them. And ultimately those journals included talk of bullets.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't want to wait for the next episode? You don't have to unlock all episodes of Scary Terry ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast Channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more.

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