The Last Will

Summary

The Binge Cases: Scary Terri – Episode: The Last Will

Host: Jonathan Hirsch
Release Date: December 9, 2024
Producer: Sony Music Entertainment
Episodes Series: The Binge Cases
Podcast Description:
Between 1977 and 1989, a dozen people connected to Terri Hoffman, a spiritual leader in Dallas, Texas, died under mysterious circumstances. Investigative reporter Jonathan Hirsch delves into the tangled web of manipulation and deceit surrounding Hoffman, unveiling a dark narrative reminiscent of infamous figures like Charles Manson.

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1. Introduction to the Case

Jonathan Hirsch opens the episode by presenting the mysterious case of Devereaux Cleaver, a 13-year-old who tragically drowned in 1978. What makes this case enigmatic is the last will and testament Devereaux left behind, which designated Terry Johnson (later revealed as Terry Hoffman) as the beneficiary of her estate.

Key Details:

• Devereaux's Will: Written in her own handwriting, dated August 1978, six months before her death. It bequeathed all her property, including a $200,000 trust fund, to Terry Johnson and her organization, Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc.
• Terry Hoffman's Organization: Received significant financial assets meant to fund its spiritual endeavors.

Jonathan Hirsch (00:51):
"How the hell in all the 171 million acres of Texas does a teenager find themselves compelled to sign a will?"

2. The Suspicious Wills and Deaths

Jonathan introduces the pattern of suspicious deaths connected to Terry Hoffman. Alongside Devereaux Cleaver, Sandra Cleaver and her childhood nanny, Louise Watson (affectionately known as Wheezy), died under mysterious circumstances.

Insights from Croom Beatty (02:09 & 11:06):
"Terry had both wills. I guess there was some serious money in Sandra's former family."
"Immediately, immediately. Because it had happened again."

Core Questions Raised:

• Influence Over Victims: Did Terry Hoffman exert undue influence over individuals to secure their wills?
• Premeditation: The deaths appear premeditated, with beneficiaries consistently being Terry Hoffman or her organization.

3. Legal Battle and Settlement

Croom Beatty and other family members contested the wills, suspecting foul play and Terry Hoffman's manipulative tactics. The legal proceedings, however, led to a settlement where Terry received half of the contested estates.

Ken Fairchild's Account (14:39):
"Terry obviously had strong influence over Sandra and I. I didn't realize that about Devro until, you know, until the trial."

Settlement Outcome (18:45):
"We had a very good lawyer who at the very end said that I should go ahead and settle, which we did. So Terry got half of it and I got half of it."

4. Terry Hoffman's Influence and CDBMS

Terry Hoffman’s rise in the Dallas area during the mid-1970s is explored, highlighting her charismatic yet manipulative persona. She founded the Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc. (CDBMS), attracting a diverse group of followers through her lectures and spiritual teachings.

Jeanine Snyder’s Introduction (21:16):
"I'm one of those weird people who was always psychic, was always introduced as."

5. Jeanine Snyder's Testimony

Jeanine Snyder provides a firsthand account of her experiences with Terry Hoffman. Initially drawn to Terry’s meditation group for solace, Jeanine soon recognized Terry's manipulative nature.

Key Points from Jeanine Snyder:

• Initial Attraction: Jeanine found comfort and understanding in Terry’s teachings, which promised spiritual growth and community.
• Manipulative Practices: Terry sold expensive spiritual jewelry purported to offer protection and energy absorption. Members like Jeanine invested significant amounts of money, believing in the spiritual benefits.

Jeanine Snyder (26:10):
"I didn't even see that the jewelry that she was conning all of us by selling us all this jewelry, because it had purpose, let me tell you."

6. Terry's Manipulative Practices

Terry Hoffman employed various strategies to control and manipulate her followers:

• Spiritual Control: She positioned herself as a "living master," guiding followers through personal and spiritual crises.
• Financial Exploitation: The sale of semi-precious stones and spiritual artifacts served as both a revenue stream and a means of exerting control.
• Emotional Manipulation: Terry influenced personal relationships, as seen when she advised Jeanine’s husband to explore other relationships, sowing discord to maintain her influence.

Jeanine Snyder on Relationship Manipulation (32:05):
"She had a very passionate sexual connection, but he had lots of work to do. He was a damaged human being, just as I was."

7. The Black Lords and Increasing Extremes

Under Terry’s leadership, the CDBMS began espousing increasingly bizarre and dangerous beliefs, including the existence of "Black Lords" intent on taking over Earth. Followers were encouraged to perform rituals and engage in protective measures against these perceived threats.

Jeanine Snyder on Black Lords (33:35):
"The storyline at the time was that the Black Lords wanted to take over Earth. We needed to fight the battles against the darkness as agents of light."

Escalation to Violence:

• Bloodletting Practices: Terry claimed that Black Lords were poisoning followers' blood, necessitating blood extraction to cleanse them.
• Ritualistic Battles: Followers participated in choreographed battles using talismans and symbolic weapons.

Jeanine Snyder on Bloodletting (34:46):
"We had our protection and we had our swords and our shields and all the symbols of the elements that had been empowered."

8. Breaking Free and Consequences

As Terry’s manipulations became more overt, some members, like Jeanine, began to see through the facade and attempted to distance themselves from the group. This defiance was met with hostility and further manipulation from Terry, leading to traumatic incidents.

Jeanine Snyder's Breaking Point (37:29):
"I really was quite innocent. You know, it’s. I got savvy to darkness way later."

Impact on Personal Lives:

• Violent Incidents: Jeanine recounts a traumatic event where she believes Terry’s negative energy caused her son to suffer a severe injury.
• Emotional Toll: Leaving the group deeply affected her, highlighting the psychological control Terry exerted.

Jeanine Snyder on Personal Tragedy (37:29):
"I drove an Osmobile, and my son was only 4, and I was taking him to school and the door wasn't quite closed... I run over his arm... I assure you my son will be protected as long as I'm alive."

9. Conclusion and Ongoing Mysteries

Jonathan Hirsch wraps up the episode by reflecting on the enigmatic nature of Terry Hoffman. Despite the numerous suspicious deaths and manipulative practices, concrete evidence tying Terry directly to criminal activities remains elusive. The episode leaves listeners pondering the extent of Terry's influence and the true nature of the tragedies surrounding her.

Jonathan Hirsch (19:03):
"She was almost godlike, a guru of sorts. Terry G. It was baffling to people on the outside."

Final Reflections:

• Ambiguous Evidence: Lack of a "smoking gun" makes legal prosecution challenging.
• Enduring Suspicion: Families and followers remain skeptical of Terry's innocence, hinting at unresolved mysteries.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jonathan Hirsch (00:51):
  "How the hell in all the 171 million acres of Texas does a teenager find themselves compelled to sign a will?"

• Croom Beatty (02:09):
  "Devereaux had a $200,000, I believe, trust fund from grandparents. Terry would have made quite a cleanup."

• Jeanine Snyder (26:10):
  "I didn't even see that the jewelry that she was conning all of us by selling us all this jewelry, because it had purpose, let me tell you."

• Jeanine Snyder (37:29):
  "I drove an Osmobile, and my son was only 4... I assure you my son will be protected as long as I'm alive."

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Final Thoughts

"The Last Will" episode of The Binge Cases: Scary Terri meticulously unravels the sinister connections between Terri Hoffman and a series of unexplained deaths among her followers. Through compelling testimonies and investigative insights, Jonathan Hirsch paints a chilling portrait of manipulation and spiritual deceit, leaving listeners both informed and unsettled by the dark underbelly of Terri Hoffman's influence.

For those intrigued by this harrowing tale, subscribe to The Binge Cases on Apple Podcasts or visit GetTheBinge.com to continue feeding your true crime obsession with ad-free access to all episodes.

Transcript

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Listen to all episodes of Scary Terry ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge. Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen the Binge feed your true crime obsession.

[Janine Snyder]

The Binge.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Before we get started, I just want to let you know that we do discuss suicide in this episode, so please listen with care. Devereaux Cleaver left behind a grieving family, but she also left behind a will that she'd written herself in her own handwriting. She was 13 years old when she apparently decided it was time to write her last will and testament. I give, devise and bequeath all of my property, including all rights, titles and interests of whatever character I may own, the document said. In and to any property, real, personal or mixed, wherever situated, to Terry Johnson, who has been to me like a second mother, Terry Johnson, otherwise known as Terry Hoffman, Sandra's friend Terry and here's what's strange. The document was dated August 1978, six months before she died. The will indicated who would get Dev's basketball, her rock collection, but also the family trust.

[Croom Beatty]

Devereaux had a $200,000, I believe, trust fund from grandparents. Terry would have made quite a cleanup.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The money was to go back towards Terry's organization, Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc. 200,000. That was a lot of money back then. Almost a million bucks today. How the hell in all the 171 million acres of Texas does a teenager find themselves compelled to sign a will? And why? Terri Hoffman, both Chrissy and Gail, believe that she created the will because her mom wanted her to. But I wonder if it's more complicated than that. What if Sandra didn't walk unwittingly into the water? Maybe she knew a swim on the peninsula that day was a death sentence. The question of why she'd signed a will was unanswered, incomplete, like an unsigned check she'd left on the kitchen table. Turns out that will didn't really hold up.

[Croom Beatty]

It isn't legal in Texas, of course.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But in the midst of their grief, it did hang in the air. The question of the will. Did somebody put her up to this? It was a wild and dangerous thought that bounced around in their heads like a caged animal. They just couldn't shake this feeling that maybe Sandra had convinced Dev to sign this will and that even if she hadn't, Sandra might have known Terry had it out for their daughter. And if Terry could get Sandra to let go of her daughter, what else could she get her to let go of? These shark eyes. Those cold, dark eyes.

[Janine Snyder]

The most sophisticated sociopath I've ever observed.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Left behind a series of bizarre diaries and writings associated with Terri Hoffman and a group she founded called the Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul, Inc.

[Croom Beatty]

Really see how evil she really was.

[Josh Dean]

Like heartless are those items that are.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Used to control and combat shield against Black Lords.

[Janine Snyder]

I invoke the fifth Amendment that it was a cult. I didn't know that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

From Sony Music Entertainment. This is scary Terry. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Chapter 2 the Last Will.

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Croom Beatty]

Weezy did not want to go on that trip to Colorado, but Sandra convinced her that it would be good for her and it would be a wonderful experience and Weezy didn't want to go.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

At this point, Wheezy was older. She may not have felt like she could say no to Sandra. Sandra was in her 40s, but Weezy was 78.

[Croom Beatty]

Why? Why? Why? But then, as we got to thinking about it, Louise was very dependent on Sandra and of course was elderly. And I'm sure in some bizarre way, Sandra couldn't leave her alone and was convinced it was better for Louise to go with her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In the Garden of the Gods, narrow, dramatic roads encircle the mountains, winding up and up into the sky. It was around one of those turns that Sandra Cleaver and Louise Watson Wheezy were driving in September of 1981. As they turned one of the corners along that twisty road, their car went flying off the side of the cliff and into the valley below. According to the police report, there were no tire marks on the pavement, no sign of hesitation, no pumping of the brakes. The car simply took flight towards the horizon and into the Garden of the Gods. Along with Sandra Cleaver and Louise Watson. No one survived.

[Croom Beatty]

We were sick to death about Louise Watson. Of course, she was just a lovely, beautiful lady. And Chuck just couldn't. Couldn't get over the fact that why would Sandra do that to Louise?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So did Sandra mean to die that day? Had she made some kind of sick promise to Terry? And when you found out about the death of Louise and Sandy, how soon before you started to suspect that this had something to do with Terry?

[Croom Beatty]

Immediately.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Immediately, immediately. Because it had happened again. Two suspicious deaths, and both women drafted wills. Luis and Sandra had seemingly prepared for a worst case scenario. And Weezy, too, had signed up for a life insurance policy.

[Croom Beatty]

Terry had both wills. I guess there was some serious money in Sandra's former family.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So clearly there's a target here for Terry. Weezy's will gave everything to Sandra. So in the event of both of their deaths, there would be the same beneficiary. This was beginning to look like more than coercion. This string of deaths seemed to be premeditated.

[Croom Beatty]

Sandra had a lot of personal jewelry with her at the time, and it was in a suitcase. But that suitcase apparently was left with someone that knew Terry and knew Sandra before they went off the cliff.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And that's not all. In the year before her suicide, Sandra's brother, Croom, had all but lost track of his sister. He told me, and I get this, he was a thousand miles away. He had kids and a life. His sister didn't want his help, despite the multiple tragedies that had beset her. A couple of months before she died, Croom's son received a phone call. It was his aunt Sandra. She called simply to tell him that she had chosen to leave everything to Terry and that if she died, this is what she wanted. There was a defiance in her tone, like, fuck you. No one is going to tell me what to do. Croom's wife, Meriwether, said they had no idea what Sandra was even up to.

[Janine Snyder]

And I remember when they. We got the call. A friend of ours from some other place heard about the accident that Sandra and Louise had.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It came out of the blue. I mean, it was so bizarre. She'd slipped so far away from them by then that Croom and his wife weren't even the first ones to know about her death. But from the moment he heard about his sister's death, Croom was also suspicious. Especially when he found out that his sister and Luis had left everything in their possession to Terry Hoffman.

[Ken Fairchild]

We ended up talking to the state police and all of that.

[Croom Beatty]

Terry was going to get everything Croom contested the will.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A trial ensued. He wished to recoup in the civil proceedings property he felt was the rightful possession of the Beatty family.

[Ken Fairchild]

Terry obviously had strong influence over Sandra and I. I didn't realize that about Devro until, you know, until the trial. But Louise and Sandra died. You know, Louise left a will to this woman. Sandra was under the influence. Now, how she got under the influence is what you're trying to drive at.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It is a disturbing and puzzling part of this story. How does one become influenced in the way some of the victims families alleged their loved ones were? I found these tapes of Terry. Tapes of her getting prepared for this trial. And, boy, are they something. She asked your advice at that time.

[Janine Snyder]

Yes, she did.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A man named Ken Fairchild is walking Terry through how best to respond to allegations that she was liable for Sandra's death. Did you offer her guidance?

[Janine Snyder]

I told her that she had to make up her own mind what she wanted to do. And she had already made up her mind. She had begun proceedings for a divorce.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So Terry Hoffman is often heard on the tapes suggesting she has no influence over anyone, least of all Sandra. Did she ask your advice, preparing a divorce? No. Not directly, no. In these tapes, Terry would have the court believe that she's nothing more than a gal pal, a friendly ear. Terry wouldn't even admit she was Sandra's spiritual advisor. This advisor, Ken, seems to be reminding her that her freedom is on the line. They could lose this case if he could get somebody on the stand who would talk about you controlling their lives without you. What are you telling them? Don't be afraid of death.

[Janine Snyder]

I don't tell people what to do.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

When she talks about Sandra, she doesn't speak as a grieving friend. Her voice doesn't waver. Terry's advisor tells her to avoid words that indicate she had any control. So Terry suggests that Sandra made her executor of her will of her own accord. Did she discuss it with you before she did it?

[Janine Snyder]

Well, as a matter of fact, no. One day she just told me that she was going to.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Incredibly, Terry tries to argue that she found out after the fact. While the trial to contest the will was set against Terry Croom and the Cleavers wanted law enforcement to launch a criminal investigation into her.

[Croom Beatty]

Thank God. Sandra Cleaver's brother, Krum Beatty, contacted Dallas district attorney's office.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The assistant DA was a guy by the name of Cecil Emerson. He very much wanted to pursue a criminal investigation despite the fact that Terry was not at the scene of either supposed crime. She wasn't at the beach when Devereaux drowned. She wasn't in the car when Sandra and Luis drove into the Garden of the Gods. Cecil was sympathetic to the family's concerns, but he was hamstrung as far as prosecution goes. Because while it seemed as clear as day to Gail and Chuck and Croom that Terry Hoffman had played a role in these three deaths, there was no smoking gun. There was motive, for sure. For days, there was motive. But there was no note from Terry promising Sandra that she would be reborn after death. There was no recording of Terry saying that Devereaux needed to go. Dev died in what came to be seen as a tragic accident. Violent seas swept her away. The motive to have access to her money was clear. But the actions tying Terry to her death were flimsy at best, non existent at worst. Something I've been thinking about time and again in this case. You can't have a smoking gun when you die by your own hand. And so there was little the DA could do. The trial to decide what would happen with Sandra's will began in 1982.

[Ken Fairchild]

We had a very good lawyer who at the very end said that I should go ahead and settle, which we did. So Terry got half of it and I got half of it, and that was. That was it, you know, we proceeded to move on with our life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They moved on and left Sandra's sordid history behind them, just as the Cleavers had tried to after Devereaux. And in each tragedy, the money flowed to Terry. A reporter covering the Terry Hoffman story in the 80s said to me, there was a lot of smoke. The challenge was always determining whether it was all coming from the same fire. Terry was described as having a soft and gentle demeanor. But could that unassuming woman be a mastermind? In the beginning, it was hard to imagine she could have anything to do with these tragedies that surrounded her. This poor orphan from far West Texas who'd been introduced to mystical ideas from a Lutheran nun at an orphanage. It was time to dig deeper into Terry's history and into her group. Past is prologue, as they say. A prologue to a story darker and more terrifying than I could have possibly imagined. Streaming December 12th on Peacock. Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie are back.

[Janine Snyder]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

When I went in search of who Terry was before Devereaux's death, before Sandra drove herself and Louise off a cliff, I knew I had to talk to someone from those early days. That's when I met Jeanine Snyder. By the time Jeanine crossed paths with Terry, she was in her 20s and had a small child she was raising on her own. She just moved to Dallas for as long as she could remember, Janine knew she could see things others could not.

[Janine Snyder]

I'm one of those weird people who was always psychic, was always introduced as.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A newcomer to the city. Janine was struggling. She knew she was different, sometimes made her question her sanity, and that's when a friend told her about Terry's meditation group. The classes were held at the Church of Religious Science.

[Janine Snyder]

I remember walking out of that service feeling finally I found somebody who I can ask questions just like, oh, you know I'm not alone and there's this person that knows and yay, I want to know.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Terri was heavyset, with a wide gait. She wore loose fitting clothes, drapey gowns or moomoos. Her whole face would draw towards her brow when she frowned or looked serious and snap back into an overly tight expression when she smiled. She was not striking or welcoming really, but I guess that in a way made her feel authentically motherly to some.

[Janine Snyder]

Her public Persona, when we had 50 to 100 or 200 people in a room when she was speaking was this radiant mother figure, the Divine Mother. And she would say just enough to that vulnerable part of every human being in the room, wanting to know more. She was so skillful.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I'm beginning to see what made this woman appealing in a deeply conservative town. Here was this raggedy prophet who gazed lovingly on you, who promised a brave and spiritually minded path and a circle of friends to do it with. Janine met Sandra there too, perhaps the person most close to Terri in those days.

[Janine Snyder]

Terri was Sitting in a chair, big wing chair, all regal, right? And everyone was sitting on the floor and sitting on the couches. And we were all huddled around. It was very intimate. And she was talking about the reason we had incarnated and that we had come as individual masters to help in all these ways.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janine told me she didn't feel crazy anymore. She had a deep longing to be okay. Terry had this way of meeting students where they were and helping them to see their life in a new way. One that made them feel understood even when they were in crisis.

[Janine Snyder]

Sandy Cleaver, who had just come out of a divorce, a very contentious divorce, he had chosen another woman, Devereaux. She was raising Devereaux. She felt controlled by her parent, her estate. She felt controlled by others. This was a place where Terry would use that and give explanations for these contextual, karmic explanations that got you off the hook if you were thinking you were the bad guy.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Jeanine got close enough to Terri to realize she could be different things to different people.

[Janine Snyder]

She had many Personas, many. We're not talking one.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

She was so skillful for those under her spell. She was almost godlike, a guru of sorts. Terry G. It was baffling to people on the outside. In photos, she appears nervous and unhealthy. Janine said there was an excuse for that. The fat, the excess weight she carried was there to carry all the energy it was necessary. The energy she apparently absorbed from her followers. This was also why Terry wore semi precious and precious stones, stones that she sold to her followers. They were spiritual protection and apparently absorbed bad energies, too.

[Janine Snyder]

I didn't even see that the jewelry that she was conning all of us by selling us all this jewelry, because it had purpose, let me tell you. For a single mother to invest over two years of her life, $25,000 in stones that. Do you understand how important these stones were to those of us in the teacher's class?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

By then, Terri had asked Janine to join a circle of teachers, an exclusive group within CDBMS tasked with being sort of ministers of Terri's message.

[Janine Snyder]

She could grift you over everything. I mean, everything was a grift, actually. I mean, that's how intricately manipulative this person was.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

$25,000 is a lot of jewelry today, honey.

[Janine Snyder]

I had strands of all the semi precious. I had an emerald. I had a ruby, I had a sapphire. I had lapis lazuli.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So in addition to the lectures, Terry sold this jewelry, which was supposed to give you spiritual protection. She made these Recordings of her lectures and did private paid consultations. She was carving out a nice little New Age niche for herself. Terri told followers like Janine that she was a living master from humble beginnings who'd picked cotton in the West Texas sun.

[Janine Snyder]

She was Indian, Native American. She had been on the reservation. Her mother was an alcoholic or I think, or for sure she was born out of wedlock. She had other siblings from multiple fathers and that the masters had guided her to leave and be on the whatever, the street.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The orphan who saw the light through the wisdom of a Lutheran nun. A nine year old who was adopted by a Dallas family who'd lost their child to tuberculosis.

[Janine Snyder]

The Benson family and then the orphanage and then the adopted family and then John Wilder, her first husband.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He was a trucker. She married him at age 15 in Oklahoma, where that was still legal. That part was true, or at least the public records support it. But the rest of it highly unlikely. I pulled the vital statistics from Pecos county, where Fort Stockton is located. She was born to the Bensons, a musician and a housewife from Dallas. Terri Lee Benson was not who she said she was. By the mid-70s, Terry's influence in the Dallas area was growing. The people who came to her lectures, who paid for her consultations, they were from all walks of life, students, professionals, you name it. Some accounts had as many as 300 people attending lectures of Terry's at Southern Methodist University.

[Janine Snyder]

She was good at it. And you got I don't care who you were when you walked in the door. Three classes later, she had the ability to hook anybody.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Now I've covered cults, new religious movements for a long time now. I was actually raised in one. Turns out long story for another time, but I can tell you with confidence that I have familiarity with the New Age movement and the mystical ideas that informed Terry's philosophy. This was not an organized spiritual worldview, more like a salad of different so called mystical ideas tossed together. Janine had quickly become a part of Terri's innermost circle. She actually helped name their budding group Conscious Development of Body, Mind and Soul and wrote their handbook with Sandra and another follower on Sandra's typewriter. This is the pure wisdom that comes only through self unfoldment and conscious development. This is someone reading a passage from the original CDBMS handbook, which I found buried in an archive of fringe religious groups at a California university. Terry voluntarily accepted reincarnation for the express purpose of teaching those who are sincerely ready for the highest spiritual teachings and who are willing to accept the moral, mental, emotional, and physical disciplines necessary for self unfoldment. Conscious development was about your personal journey towards spiritual maturity. Terri was there to help you along, like a spiritual coach almost. She was in your corner. She was cheering on her faithful, encouraging them to try new things, to become a more advanced spiritual being. Sometimes that meant letting go of people who weren't serving your growth.

[Janine Snyder]

You have to understand, she was the most, in my life, the most sophisticated sociopath I've ever observed. Because it always ended up that Terri would be the beneficiary of any of these karmic resolutions that she would guide you to understand were necessary in order for you to evolve.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of course, that's not how Jeanine saw it. At the time she was committed. She was raising her son, recently married. She had her own flock of students and community of like minded friends in Dallas. It was all she ever wanted until Terry came for her husband, Rick.

[Janine Snyder]

We had a very passionate sexual connection, but he had lots of work to do. He was a damaged human being, just as I was. But I was aware of mine and so I asked her to help. Rick later told me that in his consult with Terry that she had encouraged him to explore other relationships because that was a part of his learning. Because then he would feel more empowered to be with me who he felt was a challenge. I mean, she did crap like that all the time to people. Now when I confronted Terry about setting up this mess with my husband, she said, he is not evolved enough for you get a new husband.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Rick did not like that Terry was encouraging him to cheat on his wife.

[Janine Snyder]

As far as he was concerned, that was it. And he cut bait. I really was quite innocent. You know, it's. I got savvy to darkness way later.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The darkness that Jeanine's talking about, that all began when Terry started talking about the Black Lords.

[Janine Snyder]

The storyline at the time was that the Black Lords wanted to take over Earth. We needed to fight the battles against the darkness as agents of light. And Terry got sick a couple of times. And it was because the Black Lords were attacking her and we needed to protect her. And we also needed to take on the Black Lords to kill them.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This Black Lord's shit was getting weird. The teachers began to perform detailed rituals designed to protect themselves from the Black Lords. They accumulated various tools, wands, swords. And these weapons alongside their spirit energy would be used to battle the Black Lords.

[Janine Snyder]

We had our protection and we had our swords and our shields and all the symbols of the elements that had been empowered.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So the groups of followers would be engaged in a choreographed Battle fighting the Black Lords with bronze talismans.

[Janine Snyder]

And the bloodletting was happening, but I never participated.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Wait, what bloodletting? I'd read and heard a lot of out there stuff about Terry's beliefs at this point, but this was a dark turn. Terry believed that the Black Lords were poisoning the blood of her students, and the only way to cleanse them, and there's no easy way to say this, was to extract their blood.

[Janine Snyder]

I vaguely, vaguely remember that there was blood drawing with, you know, like, you go have your blood test.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It was bizarre. Terry had seemingly crossed a line, and Janine knew it. But also, nothing bad enough had happened to her to leave. She was a frog in boiling water.

[Janine Snyder]

I never doubted that she was a spiritual being. And even as she's invading my life and doing things, and then the Black Lords are taking over the universe and we have to go have these battles and that it was a cult. I didn't know that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It's probably hard for someone who hasn't been through an experience like this to appreciate how difficult it would have been to leave. Janine wasn't being physically harmed, and she trusted the path Terry had set everyone on. She was smart and trusting, but that I know for a fact doesn't stop people from joining cults. It actually makes it easier for you to rationalize weird and dangerous shit because you can find a reason it might be good for you in the long run. The thoughts about leaving Terry were growing in Janine's mind, blooming out of a black seed, a seed poisoned by a leader who now seemed completely divorced from reality so as to be alarming. Janine couldn't confirm for me when she officially left CDBMS, but it was in the mid to late 70s, late 76, early 77, and Terry did not take it well.

[Janine Snyder]

It really hurt me. It hurt my heart that she would do that when I walked away. They were, you know, she had told everyone in that group that were having the battles that my son was a big, huge black lord.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I've heard other accounts of Terri doing this, calling out specific members or enemies and announcing that they were a black lord, a danger to the group. But now Janine heard her son was a target. A little kid.

[Janine Snyder]

I drove an Osmobile, and my son was only 4, and I was taking him to school and the door wasn't quite closed, and I told him to grab it and closed the door and it swung out. I mean, I can see this in slow motion in an instant because it was so real. We were in a vortex of energy that had taken over. And he was pulled by the door because he was a little guy. I was turning the corner, I was telling him to close the door and he fell in right with his arm. He fell on the ground and I literally ran over his arm with my osmobile, immediately put him in the car, went straight to the pediatrician. But the power of focusing that amount of negative belief and energy became real.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To eliminate all doubt about what Jeanine just described, she believed Terri had marshaled dark energy from her followers, causing Jeanine to run over her son's arm.

[Janine Snyder]

That was when I wrote the letter and said, I love my son. I will love. I brought my son into this world. You will not harm my son. And now that I know how to build shields and defend against negative energy, I assure you my son will be protected as long as I'm alive. And you might want to go someplace else and harm someone else. And I meant every word of it. I don't believe that Terry Hoffman, the person that I knew, was capable of honesty. That's really fundamental. I don't think that this person was ever honest in my presence. Never. There was always an agenda, a grift, manipulation to get something physical, intangible, money, food.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Janine left Terry behind, moved on, and tried not to follow up on it all. She told me the rest of the members of cdbms, they went right on into an alternative reality that didn't exist. Except for one person, Terry's second husband, Glenn Cooley. Next time on Scary Terry.

[Croom Beatty]

Oh, my God.

[Janine Snyder]

This man just killed himself. Their reality had been skewed. To think that this is okay because of this, because this is what we believe.

[Croom Beatty]

It's just too crazy.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't want to wait for the next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Scary Terry ad free right now by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. Search for the binge on Apple podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the binge channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. It can get lonely climbing Mount McKinley.

[Josh Dean]

So to entertain myself, I go to.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

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