Watching You | 2. Danger Signs

Summary

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The Binge Cases: Watching You

Episode 2: Danger Signs

Release Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Jonathan Hirsch
Production: Sony Music Entertainment

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Overview

Episode 2 of "Watching You" dives into the volatile and disturbing dynamics of the Leili family after their move to rural Mississippi and, later, suburban Atlanta. As the story of Dominique ("Nikki") Leili unfolds, the episode explores escalating control, fear, and psychological manipulation inside the family, centered on Matt Leili’s obsessive surveillance and abuse. Through intimate interviews and chilling audio recordings, we see how danger signs became clear to those within and close to the family—even if the worst was yet to come.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Isolation and Escalation of Abuse

• Matt’s Alienation from Alex: Matt's inability to accept Alex, Nikki’s daughter from a previous relationship, as his own ("He didn't see Alex as his own daughter... wanted a child of his flesh and blood." – Jonathan Hirsch, 02:36).
• Relocation Intensifies Control: Moving away from Nikki's supportive family isolates her and emboldens Matt’s controlling behavior.
• First Signs of Physical Violence:
  • A harrowing recollection from Alex of a moment when Matt physically assaulted both a pregnant Nikki and young Alex to keep their suffering hidden:

    “She picked me up on her hip and she punched the glass… blood running down her hands, glass everywhere. He took her pregnant with me on her hip. He shoved us and we both went flying on the floor because he didn’t want her causing a scene with neighbors.” – Alex, 04:06

2. Childhoods Shaped by Fear

• Alex’s Early Realization: Witnessing violence marked a pivotal loss of innocence and defined her relationship with Matt:

  “That was one of, like, the pivotal moments for me, that this man is dangerous.” – Alex, 04:57

• Living in a War Zone:
  • Jonathan Hirsch draws parallels between children exposed to domestic violence and combat veterans (05:24).
  • Alex describes having to “grow up real fast” to protect her mother (05:43).

3. Parental Absence & Child Coping

• Nikki as Provider: After Amanda’s birth, Nikki’s demanding job kept her away from home (09:48–10:15), but she stayed emotionally connected with calls and support (10:32–11:02).
• Matt's Superficial Fatherhood: Outwardly the “stay-at-home dad,” Matt remains jobless and instead obsesses over surveillance and technology, bankrolled by Nikki.

4. Disturbing “Games” and Normalized Abuse

• Chasing with Chainsaws:
  • Repeatedly terrorized his children by chasing them with a running chainsaw, which the girls normalized due to the frequency:

    “It wasn’t like, oh, he did it once and never again. It was probably six, seven, eight times he's chased us around the house with the chainsaw.” – Amanda, 12:10

• Punishments and Public Displays: Rebecca recalls standing for hours facing a corner as punishment but seeking refuge by her mother’s desk (14:16).

5. Surveillance Culture in the Leili Home

• Proliferation of Cameras:
  • Amanda describes how it felt normal for the house to have so many cameras ("It was probably five years of building up cameras until it was what it was." – Amanda, 16:00).
  • Alex details intrusive surveillance, even on mundane activities:

    “There was one in the living room, so if you’re sitting on the couch, you were being recorded or watched… there was a camera down there watching me go down and get a Coke.” – Alex, 28:31, 28:49

6. Matt's Increasing Control and Paranoia

• Tracking Communication: Matt monitored Nikki’s every interaction, especially those involving her ex-husband and Alex (“He read every text message or call or whatever. Anything she did, he tracked.” – Alex, 29:39).
• Emotional Manipulation:
  • Matt positions Alex as an obstacle to marital happiness:

    “I feel that it's either Alex or me. You're telling me you can't be happy without Alex. You can't be happy unless this family is together with Alex.” – Recorded argument, 29:55

7. Family & Outsider Observations

• Nikki’s Father’s Regret:
  • Doug Chatham reflects on Nikki’s secrecy and his sadness that she didn’t feel comfortable confiding in him (17:34–18:18).
• Attorney's Alarm:
  • Suzanne Laird, upon witnessing Matt's control during a legal consultation, calls Nikki to ask if she's being abused:

    “He was so controlling, he wouldn’t even let her speak… after she left my office…I was so concerned that I got on the phone and called her back and asked her if she was being abused in her marriage.” – Suzanne Laird, 24:39

8. Audio Evidence of Marital Collapse

• Recording Domestic Fights: Matt's practice of recording arguments, ostensibly for "evidence," exposes the depth of dysfunction:
  • Frustration and hopelessness on both sides:

    “We can't move forward until the Alex situation is in the wrong… I'm nowhere different.” – Recorded fight, 23:07–23:26

  • Screaming, threats, accusations:

    “Shut up and listen… What you did to me in the car, I got it on tape.” – Recorded confrontation, 32:59

9. Attempts to Protect and Escape

• Consideration of Sending Alex Away: Nikki contemplates sending Alex to her biological father to reduce conflict, signaling despair and helplessness (24:00–24:28).
• Nikki's Small Acts of Defiance: Attempts to buy Alex a car behind Matt's back lead to Matt erupting in rage and accusations of betrayal (26:07–27:22).
• Nikki's Friend/Alex's Perspective:
  • “I can't believe you're okay with him treating her this way… there's your answer. Like, why is this even a question?” – Alex, 24:00

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 04:06 | "She picked me up on her hip and she punched the glass…He shoved us and we both went flying on the floor because he didn’t want her causing a scene with neighbors." | Alex | | 04:57 | "This man is dangerous. He was willing to push his pregnant wife and her daughter on the ground, on the floor, just to keep from anyone knowing what was going on." | Alex | | 12:10 | "It wasn’t like, oh, he did it once and never again. It was probably six, seven, eight times he's chased us around the house with the chainsaw." | Amanda | | 14:16 | "He would make me stand in the corner with my face facing the corner for hours…so I chose the corner by my mom’s desk because she would keep an eye on him…and let me go sit down...because I’m standing in a corner for hours." | Rebecca | | 16:00 | "It was probably five years of building up cameras until it was what it was." | Amanda | | 28:31 | "There was probably 16 or more on the outside…there was one in the living room, so if you're sitting on the couch, you were being recorded." | Alex | | 29:39 | "He read every text message or call or whatever. Anything she did, he tracked." | Alex | | 26:07 | "See, he doesn’t want to get her a car, but he doesn't want to drive her anywhere, and he doesn't want me driving her anywhere. Make up your mind, dude." | Nikki (audio recording) | | 32:59 | "Shut up and listen...What you did to me in the car, I got it on tape." | Matt (audio recording) | | 33:57 | "Welcome to my world. You killed me a long time ago." | Alex |

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Important Timestamps

• 02:21 – Family's move and initial breakdown of relations.
• 04:06–04:57 – Alex recounts traumatic incident of violence.
• 12:03–12:38 – Amanda and Alex discuss chainsaw "game."
• 14:16–14:51 – Rebecca’s punishment and alliance with Nikki.
• 16:00–16:36 – Amanda on camera system buildup.
• 21:12–22:01 – Matt's interference in daughters' social lives.
• 23:07–23:44 – Audio recordings of marital fights.
• 24:39–25:13 – Attorney Suzanne Laird’s alarm after seeing Matt’s control.
• 26:07–27:22 – Nikki’s heartbreak over not being able to buy Alex a car.
• 28:31–29:09 – Alex describes house-wide surveillance.
• 32:59–33:57 – Audio confrontation, hints at violence.
• 33:57–34:02 – Alex’s stark acknowledgment: "You killed me a long time ago."

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Tone & Themes

• Chilling, Intimate, and Raw: The episode’s primary language is personal, direct, and unflinching—voices of survivors and witnesses are foregrounded.
• Cautionary: The show repeatedly warns listeners about distressing content, marking the story as a chilling warning about cycles of control and violence.
• Noiresque True-Crime: The narration and use of real audio and interviews imparts a haunting, immersive mood, making the family’s turmoil feel immediate and real.

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Conclusion

Episode 2, "Danger Signs," is a harrowing look into the Leili family’s descent into fear, dominated by Matt’s obsession with control—meticulously enforced through surveillance, emotional, and physical abuse. Through first-person testimony and haunting audio, listeners bear witness to the slow-burning catastrophe that everyone—inside and outside the family—struggled to fully see or stop. The stage is set for Nikki’s disappearance, as the patterns of danger become impossible to ignore.

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Transcript

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Listen to all episodes of Watching you ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge. Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen the binge feed your true crime obsession.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

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[Amanda]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

The Bench.

Hey all. Wanted to let you know verbal abuse and domestic violence are a part of this story. It's a cautionary tale to listen to with caution.

Leaving Georgia meant that the Liley family was on their own. They were away from the prying eyes of Nicky's sister, Amy and her parents. Matt's problems were now out in the open.

For one thing, he didn't see Alex as his own daughter. He wanted a child of his flesh and blood. When Nicky got pregnant and they moved to Mississippi, Matt was elated finally, he would have the family he wanted. He'd no longer be an outsider. But that, as you may have surmised, was not enough for him. Because Matt's obsessive need to surveil every aspect of the lives of the people he was closest to was taking over. Especially as the relationship between Matt and Alex only seemed to get worse. Matt resented that Alex was a priority for Nikki more than him or their marriage. One of their fights unraveled in front of the whole family when he demanded Nikki stop helping her little kid blow her nose.

[Alex]

Mom was pregnant with Amanda and there was a lot of fighting in Mississippi. There was a particular memory that has, like, burned in my brain.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alex was around six years old when they moved to central Mississippi. Kosciusko. It's a tiny blip of a town, just about 7,000 people. The family's new home was near downtown, if you want to call it downtown. A small strip of businesses, homes packed neatly next to one another.

[Alex]

It's one of my least favorite memories. But they had gotten into some huge fight.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

About what?

[Alex]

I don't know. Most of their fights. I couldn't tell you what they were particularly about other than they were just screaming and fighting. They got into it so much so that, I mean, she was like nine months pregnant. A 90 pound woman carrying like a nine pound baby. She picked me up on her hip and she punched the glass. It was one of those doors. The top half of the door was glass panes. She punched it with her fist, punched the window out and screamed, help. Blood running down her hands, glass everywhere. He took her pregnant with me on her hip. He shoved us and we both went flying on the floor because he didn't want her causing a scene with neighbors.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You were close enough to your neighbors that you could hear them. If they raised their voice or they.

[Alex]

Could hear you, you could hear somebody screaming.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alex and her mom hit the floor.

[Alex]

And I remember in that moment, that was one of the, like, pivotal moments for me, that this man is dangerous. He was willing to push his pregnant wife and her daughter on the ground, on the floor, just to keep from anyone knowing what was going on. So I think for the rest of my life was like, I will never trust you. I will never. I will always have eyes on you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The arguments were louder, more intense. Alex was living in a war zone. You know, they say that children who are exposed to domestic violence have brains like people who have seen military combat. And Alex realized quickly that her mother was her responsibility.

[Alex]

I had to grow up real fast. I had to Go. Crap. I have to protect my mom.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

From sony music entertainment. You're listening to watching you. I'm jonathan hirsch. Episode 2 danger signs.

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Nikki and Matt's first child, Amanda, was born after they'd arrived in Mississippi. And despite a harrowing birth, she was a ray of hope for Nikki and Matt, the promise of a better life. Nikki was thriving in her new job and as a result, wasn't around very much.

[Amanda]

She would.

Drive to the airport Sunday night, get back Friday night, spend the weekend, and then the next Sunday night she's gone again for a week, traveling for work. So it was pretty much always just us and our dad.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Amanda takes after her mom. Same fair complexion, reddish blonde hair. She was Alex's baby doll, her little sister. Despite being on the road often, Nikki made time for Amanda.

[Amanda]

I played basketball starting like first, second grade. Ish. Like every game, she was the loudest one in the stands. She was standing and cheering and yelling and like that continued every single game. She was always there on the weeknights.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

When Nikki was away, she'd check in.

[Amanda]

She would still call and we'd talk on the phone. How's school? What are you doing? Did you do your homework? Like she'd help us with homework over the phone. So I was bullied a lot in school. I was a Smaller kid. I was smarter. I was in the gifted program. Our mom growing up, she was the same way. She was the small, quiet, flat chested girl and she was like my rock and like being able to talk to her and like her genuinely understanding the pain I was feeling.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And all the while, Nikki is putting food on the table. Matt still doesn't have a job, but to the outside world, he's the stay at home dad.

He did, however, continue to stockpile equipment enough to power a small security business. A business that didn't seem to be making any money. And what's more, Nicky was bankrolling the whole thing. Tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. That and strange things happen at the house when Matt is left in charge.

Strange things that Alex would notice. But Amanda was younger. She didn't know anything else. Like Matt's penchant for chasing kids around with a chainsaw. Something he thought was funny.

[Amanda]

I don't think I ever really thought about it. Like, I think the. I don't even remember the first time it ever happened because it was kind of just one of those things of he did it very often.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Think about that. Running after his kids with a live blade was just another Tuesday.

[Amanda]

It wasn't like, oh, he did it once and never again. It was probably six, seven, eight times he's chased us around the house with chainsaw. And it was one of those things where like, it almost became normal. You didn't necessarily think it was wrong at the time and like, oh, this is just how things are. And if my dad thinks this is funny, then this must actually be funny, even though I'm scared.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The best thing and the worst thing about children is that they can get used to anything. They adjust, start to tell themselves it must be normal, because this is my dad.

A few years after Amanda was born, her sister came. The third daughter of Nikki, Rebecca. Rebecca is in her early 20s now, and all three of Nikki's daughters bear a striking resemblance to her in different ways. But you can no doubt see it with Rebecca. She's got thick blonde curls and bright blue eyes. She's louder and in many ways the most expressive of Nikki's girls. She lives in Virginia now. Her childhood was of course, different than that of her older sisters. She didn't have that heavy history with Matt that Alex did. She remembers pool parties with neighborhood kids, riding bikes around the cul de sac.

[Rebecca]

I remember, like, as I got older and hearing them argue, seeing them argue, it became normal. That was what parents did. They fought and they threw things and they screamed and that was normal. And then it was like, they were fine afterward.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And often the girls got roped into their arguments.

[Rebecca]

He would bring us into it. I can't remember specifics, but, yeah, he would pull us into the arguments all the time. And, like, it would be against her. Like, it would be like him using.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Us against her, against Nikki, that is. Even Rebecca, the baby of the family, didn't escape her father's intense scrutiny.

[Rebecca]

As I got older and he started to punish me more for, like, just random things. And I remember he would make me stand in the corner with my face facing the corner for hours. At least, like, two, three hours. I would have to be, like, standing facing the corner. And so I learned I could choose my corner. And so I chose the corner by my mom's desk because she would keep an eye on him and would, like, let me know when he was coming, and I could run back to the corner quickly, and he. She would, like, let me go sit down and, like, eat something and, like, just sit down, because I'm standing in a corner for hours.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Nikki clearly wasn't fully behind Matt's parenting methods. Amanda knew that even when their friends came over, Matt didn't check himself. He took out his chainsaw.

[Amanda]

I've only ever had one slumber party at our house. My dad did that. It's one of those things kind of like we're at the time, like, oh, a big group of girls over have it. Like, we're screaming and running like, oh, this is funny. And then I never had friends over again. And, like, looking back, it's probably, oh, they told their parents that this man chased him around the house with chainsaw, and now they don't want them at that house anymore.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But this wasn't on Amanda's mind at the time. As far as she knew, her dad's behavior wasn't off, and he wasn't a threat to her. He was the one who was always home taking care of her. Even the computer stuff, she thought it was kind of cool.

[Amanda]

I would build computers with him from, like, here's the case. Here's the motherboard. Here's the power supply. Here's the cpu. And here's, like, how you install everything and set it up.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And the cameras, the growing surveillance system around the house.

[Amanda]

It was definitely something that, like, felt normal to me. Growing up with it, it slowly, like, it was probably five. Over the course of, like, five years of, like, building up cameras until it was what it was. I always thought it was cool. He'd call us into his Office and be like, oh, hey, look at this, there was a deer on the front porch last night. Come look at this. Or hey, there's a raccoon in the driveway.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Amanda also understands that her dad's computer room is completely off limits. With baby sister Rebecca now exploring the house, Amanda has to keep her out of trouble.

[Amanda]

Rebecca kept running into our dad's office and like, we weren't allowed in there. There's computer stuff, all of that. And in my mind, to stop a two year old from going anywhere, just shut the door. And so I was running to get ahead of Rebecca to close the door, and she had put her fingers like in the, like where the hinges are. And so when I slammed the door shut, her fingers were there. I ran and hid in the linen closet because I thought I was going to get in trouble. Now they have to do a manhunt to find me because I'm hiding.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Computers aren't the only thing Matt keeps in the house. Amanda remembers also a gun.

[Amanda]

It was a 40 caliber revolver. It was named Baby Baby.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

By now, Nikki was seeing less and less of her family back in Georgia.

[Doug Chatham]

Nikki never talked to me about that. There were a lot of things in her past that were a complete surprise to me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's Doug Chatham, Nikki's dad. This was a recorded conversation from after the night Nikki went missing. He said when her relationships hadn't worked out before, he didn't know about it until afterwards.

[Doug Chatham]

She kept things pretty close for herself. She didn't. I don't think she felt like she.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Could talk to any of the members.

[Doug Chatham]

Of the family because she.

I think it would be admitting a failure.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Well, I think she was judging herself. Well, I would hope that she would have felt that she could come to.

[Doug Chatham]

Me with anything, but apparently she never felt that way.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He said that they were aware that the two would fight and that Matt would be controlling, but that was about it. Amy and Nikki remained in close contact though she went to visit her when they moved away.

[Alex]

So I go out there and I mean they have, they've set up this lovely house.

[Rebecca]

She had this big like blue sectional sofa. And I was like, all right, you.

[Alex]

Guys are doing okay.

[Rebecca]

And I remember her and Matt having all these fights.

[Alex]

Like the whole time I was there, they're just fighting.

[Rebecca]

And I remember thinking, oh good.

[Alex]

She finally, now she's gonna see it, right? She's gonna see it and he's gonna be gone.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

When Amy and Matt and Nikki all lived together in Athens, she said her sister had on rose colored glasses. When it came To Matt, she didn't see the worst of him, nor did it seem that she wanted to. And now that Amy wasn't there to pick on Alex, this little girl became his target.

[Rebecca]

It was always Alex.

[Alex]

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[Amanda]

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[Alex]

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[Amanda]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

The problems in the Lyly household always seem to revolve around Matt's relationship with his stepdaughter Alex. Nikki would later regret that she didn't step in and tell Matt he didn't need to be the disciplinarian when she was gone. But he had taken that on, became the rule setter and, well, Alex did not take it well.

Matt felt like she didn't respect him, that Nikki gave her special treatment. She was in all aspects in his way and he had no qualms in taking the matter into his own hands.

[Alex]

One of my first boyfriends, he started like texting him weird crap and his mom got a hold of it and that relationship ended as a 14 year old with her first little boyfriend. It was very traumatizing, like, oh my gosh, I don't want to go to school. I want to crawl in a hole because I just got broken up with. Because you just sent him like ridiculously inappropriate stuff.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And it wasn't like this was the first situation Matt muscled his way into with the girls.

[Alex]

So I mean, it just like stuff like that would happen where you would like get a friend and then you would think you were safe to like have them around your family and then suddenly no friends. Just stop coming over there. And yeah, I think you've learned to like go, okay, if I'm gonna have friends, they need to be at their house. Away from my house.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But most bizarre in all of the strife in the lively house was that it never really went away. In fact, so much of it would be there forever. Recorded.

[Doug Chatham]

You asked me why I was unhappy. The reason I'm unhappy is because I am still sitting here.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Even Matt and Nikki's fights were recorded.

[Doug Chatham]

Am I still sitting in the same unhappy position? I'm nowhere. I'm nowhere different.

From everybody. Efforts are not well meaning or not.

They didn't do anything to change anything, did they?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And these conversations reveal something so important about Nikki's story. A map of a relationship's descent into chaos. A cautionary tale that you must listen to with caution. These recordings are not easy to hear.

[Doug Chatham]

We can't move forward until the Alex situation is in the wrong. Yes, we can. You can't try because you're so upset about Alex and family. Are you gonna put an effort into this marriage? I already am if I'm claiming Alex is such a problem.

Obviously you're claiming Alex is such a problem.

You see, going to help our marriage and our situation to force her down my throat and give me ultimatums. I haven't, have I?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This was more than a couple struggling behind closed doors. This was Nikki's desperate attempt to appease Matt, to find any solution that would just calm him down.

[Alex]

I would say to Nikki, like, I can't believe that you're okay with him treating her this way. And at one point she was considering also, like, taking another job, but it would have meant moving again. And she said, well, if I did that, I would have to send Alex to live with her dad because I can't do that to Alex again. And I said, there's your answer. Like, why is this even a question?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It was more than a question. Nikki was prepared to do it. She and Matt even went to see an attorney to talk about it.

[Doug Chatham]

When they came in together.

I was really. I was shocked by the way he treated her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This is Suzanne Laird, an attorney that Nikki and Matt had hired to discuss the transfer of custody of Alex from Nikki back to her father.

[Doug Chatham]

He was so controlling, he wouldn't even let her speak. I can't explain it, but, you know, it was a very bad feeling I had. But I know that after she left my office and she went home, I was so concerned that I got.

On the phone and called her back and asked her if she was being abused in her marriage. She told me no. Most of them do.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Nikki had to work around Matt just to support her daughter in the way most parents want to support Their kids. And at one point, Nikki wanted to surprise her with a car for her 16th birthday. Her dad had the same idea. And before she could get around to buying her daughter the car, Alex dad beat her to it.

[Alex]

They didn't communicate. I look back and I'm like, wow, I cannot imagine how heartbreaking that was for her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And Nikki was torn up about it. That's true. She wanted to do something nice for her daughter. And when the car had already been purchased, she called up a friend of hers to vent about her situation.

[Doug Chatham]

See, he doesn't want to get her a car, but he doesn't want to drive her anywhere, and he doesn't want me driving her anywhere. Make up your mind, dude. You know, his dad even asked me tonight at dinner, he said, what are y' all gonna do about Alex McCarr? And I said, well, Matt doesn't think it's a good idea right now. Well, I don't. Well, that means I'm badmouthing him to his dad and made him out to be a Millie. I'm like, all I said was, you didn't think it was a good idea right now? Did I lie? It's like that with everything.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Turns out Nikki did try to buy that car for Alex. She was searching online, and Matt walked.

[Doug Chatham]

By her computer, and I pulled it off the screen because I just, you know, I don't want to hear his, you know what I don't want to hear his about I'm going behind his back to buy her a car. I just didn't want to hear it. Well, he launched into a tirade. Well, I switched Nelly things, called me a cuss, a lying piece of shit, blowed up by every name you can think of in the book. I went in, ran away, and I said, you know what, Matt? I'm sorry you feel that way. I said, I'm not lying to you. I didn't go out and lie. Her car behind her back.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Matt didn't trust her to be honest with him. She knew he kept a watchful eye over her relationship with Alex. What she didn't know was that he was watching everything. Not just the deers in the backyard. He was watching her. He was listening to the phone call you just heard, recording them without her knowing.

Matt and Nikki decide to leave Mississippi. They move back to Georgia, in the suburbs near Atlanta. Matt was still recording everything outside of the house, sometimes inside, too. It got to the point where Nikki and the girls really didn't know when they were being recorded. And when they were not.

[Alex]

He's Always had like computers per se, but I don't remember the extensiveness until we got to Lawrenceville. If you were to ask him, he would tell you that he was testing these security systems on our house.

There was probably 16 or more on the outside. Like every corner of the house was covered. They did record so you could go back and look at them. There was one in the living room, so if you're sitting on the couch, you were being recorded or watched. So if you were watching tv, it was really uncomfortable.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

There was even one camera trained on a fridge.

[Alex]

We had a fridge in the basement where they would like. We used to go to Sam's every month and do the like giant spend $2,000 at Sam's kind of family. We have fridge downstairs that was stocked with the sodas and the beers and all the things. So I would sneak down there and get cokes and I would get busted because there was a camera down there watching me go down and get a Coke.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And for that she'd get punished.

[Rebecca]

Oh yeah.

[Alex]

I'd get my phone taken away for getting a Coke.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It appeared as though the subject of Matt's frustration and surveillance always seemed to be the things he couldn't control about Nikki, her ex, her child.

[Alex]

I know they fought about me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

If Nikki even tried to reach out to her ex husband, Matt would fly into a rage.

[Alex]

It got to a point where my parents couldn't communicate other than through me because he. I mean, he tracked everything she did. He read every text message or call or whatever. Anything she did, he tracked.

[Doug Chatham]

Here I sit again, another fight. Hundreds of fights later. And how do I feel? I feel that it's either Alex or me. You're telling me you're.

You're telling me you can't be happy without Alex. You can't be happy unless this family is together with Alex.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Matt didn't just see Alex as a problem in their marriage, he saw her as the problem. But clearly there was a lot more going on.

[Doug Chatham]

I asked for no temper, more affection, tension and effort into this marriage. I've asked for maybe five or six things, all of which you told me comes naturally. I deserve them. It's something that comes natural in a marriage.

That I shouldn't even have to ask for. How many days, just in the past two weeks alone, have you disengaged and taken off in this marriage? Have you not the slicketty confidence.

They do not disengage. Done. This conversation is over.

[Alex]

I think for me as a 13, 14 year old, being very dramatic in the sense of mom, what the hell are you doing? Get rid of this guy. He's doing this. He's done this to me. Like, hello.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And this is what is so puzzling, frustrating about the case of Dominique Lyly. Was the conversation really over? Did anybody in this family know when to call it quits before things started to get really dark? It's impossible to second guess them. And yet what's so arresting about these recordings is that you can hear Nikki struggling to draw a line with Matt, and Matt's crossing that line over and over again.

[Alex]

I tried to shift gears on Tuesday, not asking you to do anything.

[Doug Chatham]

I was simply asking you to see me differently.

[Alex]

I knew you saw me in strike mode and were in expecting something from me.

[Doug Chatham]

And all I wanted to ask from.

[Alex]

You was for you to see me differently.

[Doug Chatham]

Let it go.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

You didn't.

[Doug Chatham]

Oh, yes, I did. Please do not tell me I did.

[Alex]

No, no, no, no.

[Doug Chatham]

Don't tell me I didn't let it go for her.

[Alex]

She was one. There was a level of fear. There's a level of. Of like. I think she was genuinely scared of him to an extent. And balancing that between trying to, like, appear normal. I don't. I can't go through another divorce.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Listen to how bad it got. Lower your voice.

[Doug Chatham]

Shut up and listen.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

No, I got.

[Doug Chatham]

You're not gonna tell me what I. I got it on tape. On tape?

[Alex]

In the car.

[Doug Chatham]

What you did to me in the car. I got it on tape. What have you got on tape?

[Alex]

She was the only one bringing in money into the house. She was keeping all four walls up. And he sat on a couch monitoring his 15 security cameras. I look back on it, and it wasn't rebellion.

[Ad Voice 1]

It was protection.

[Alex]

Like, the way that I look at it now as an adult is it's how I protected myself and probably why.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I'm alive in this next recording. I'm not sure, but it sounds like Matt struck Mickey.

[Doug Chatham]

That's not what I said and how I said it. And don't take my words out of context when we got in that goddamn car. God damn it. God damn it. God damn it.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

God damn it.

[Doug Chatham]

God damn it. God damn it. Damn it. Oh, your voice.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I am not going to sit here.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

And listen to this.

[Doug Chatham]

You're driving me nuts.

[Alex]

Welcome to my world. You killed me a long time ago.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Next time on Watching you, Nikki goes missing and Matt does something unexpected.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Hey.

[Doug Chatham]

How are you? Not good.

[Alex]

What's going on?

[Doug Chatham]

I'm filing for the voice. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not waiting.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't want to wait for that next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Watching youg ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast Channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge channel on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more.

Watching youg is an original production of Sony Music Entertainment. It's hosted and reported by me, Jonathan Hirsch. Jason Hoch of Waveland Media is our lead producer and co reported the series with me. Kathryn St. Louis is our story editor from Sony Music Entertainment. The executive producers are Katharine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Sound design and mixing by Scott Somerville. We use music from Epidemic Sound and apm. Our fact checker is Naomi Barr. Our production managers are Tameka Balance Kolasny and Sami Allison. Our lawyer is Meenakshi Krishnan. Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rosik, Jamie Myers and the whole team at Sony Podcast. If you're enjoying the podcast, please rate and leave us a review. Thank you so much for listening.

[Rebecca]

Meet Olivia hey, what's up?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Olivia dreams big.

[Alex]

I want to go back to school and get a pet and buy a.

[Ad Voice 1]

House and save for retirement and travel the world.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's quite the list.

[Ad Voice 1]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Numerica Credit Union is the perfect partner to help turn Olivia's dreams into reality.

[Amanda]

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[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yep.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Amanda]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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