Watching You | 4. Caught on Tape

Summary

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The Binge Cases: Watching You

Episode 4: "Caught on Tape"

Release Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Jonathan Hirsch (Sony Music Entertainment)

Overview

This episode plunges listeners into the immediate aftermath of Dominique "Nikki" Leili’s disappearance and murder in suburban Atlanta, focusing on the pivotal discovery: her husband Matt Leili’s house had an unprecedented surveillance setup recording nearly every aspect of family life. As police painstakingly sift through vast digital archives, they uncover a chilling pattern of abuse, manipulation, and attempts to hide the truth. The episode weaves together actual recordings, interviews with investigators, family members, and prosecutors, painting a vivid, disturbing portrait of both the crime and its lingering effects.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Missing Week & Matt's Behavior

• Friday night through Saturday morning, Nikki goes missing. Matt spends the week making recorded calls—some seemingly calculated, others revealing agitation or self-pity.
• Example: Matt’s call to Nikki’s dentist frames her as "incapacitated" (02:54), and a heated call to his brother Paul reveals paranoia and anger toward Nikki’s family (03:10).
• Matt (to Paul): "The family has now started a war. ... I want to bury the bitch, Matthew. I want to bury the whole fucking family. ... Don’t say anything on the phone. I'm recording." (03:39)

2. Suspicion Quickly Centers on Matt

• Law enforcement and Nikki's family immediately suspect Matt. He claims Nikki left in the early morning hours, without her phone or purse.
• John Richter (detective): "She leaves, leaves her phone behind, her purse, all her belongings. He made it seem that she just had maybe some kind of a break with reality or something." (04:07)
• Amy (Nikki's sister): "I'm not stupid. Like I know what this is. He did it." (05:03)
• Tensions between Nikki's and Matt's families escalate, with Nikki's mother Harriet confronting Matt directly.

3. Challenges in Investigating Nikki’s Death

• Key forensic hurdles: Nikki’s body is found face down in July heat, making cause of death undetermined—no obvious trauma, no clear evidence of strangulation (06:10–07:00).
• Lisa Jones (prosecutor): "The position of the body... prevented the medical examiner from being able to really give a definitive cause of death." (06:25, paraphrased)

4. Focus Shifts to Surveillance and the Leili Home

• The home’s 19 outside and several inside cameras shock detectives; yet, Matt claims to have seen nothing, raising suspicions.
• John Richter: "Anyone would believe that he has 19 cameras outside, three or four cameras on the inside, a command center. And he didn’t pick up anything? You kidding me? That she got out of the house and he didn’t know it was ridiculous." (08:45)
• Matt tries to portray Nikki as unstable, even seeking her civil commitment during the search period.

5. Family and Emotional Fallout

• Nikki’s daughters, Alex and Amanda, relive the confusion and trauma of discovering their mother’s fate.
• Alex (Nikki’s daughter): "He's laying on the floor with an oxygen mask on, grabbing my arm. 'Was it her? Was it her?' I'm like, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about." (10:47)
• The family fractures: after Nikki's death is confirmed, the girls are separated and taken from the house—"the day they lost each other" (12:31).

6. The Investigation Hits a Wall

• Despite strong suspicions and circumstantial evidence, the lack of a definitive cause of death or direct evidence stalls the case.
• Lisa Jones: "There just wasn't enough ... no way that I could prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law that he was the person that did it. Without more." (14:46)
• Investigators confront a vast digital mountain: over 55,000 surveillance video files, mostly uncatalogued and sometimes unreadable. The search slows, and Matt leaves Georgia with his daughters (15:43–17:51).

7. Turning Point—The Hidden Audio Files

• After two years, computer forensics expert Chris Ford is brought in to review the evidence. He discovers a trove of audio recordings alongside the video files.
• Chris Ford: "I know these two guys have already looked at it. Hey, Ford, why don’t you look at this case for me? ... I just need a new set of eyes to look at it. We're at a standstill with the case." (21:18–21:24)
• These audio files (recorded arguments, surveillance in Nikki’s car) are revelatory, providing intimate, damning insight into the Leili marriage.

8. Portrait of Abuse and Control

• The audio reveals Matt’s relentless, manipulative control, cycling between gaslighting, demands for affection, and verbal abuse.
• Amy (Nikki’s sister), reading from Nikki’s car recording: "Suffice it to say, my marriage is over. It’s never good enough. Everything I do is suspect. ... I'm fed up with trying to meet his expectations." (22:59)
• Detective John Richter: "You could tell how frustrated she would be and just mentally drained ... go from midnight to six in the morning and then she would just go to work and then come back and then that conversation would start again." (25:27)
• The recordings take a toll on Richter, who becomes emotionally consumed by listening for hours daily, feeling he understands Nikki better than anyone ever has.
  Richter: "I've never met her, but I know her better than any other person I've ever met." (29:18)

9. The Digital Smoking Gun

• There’s no footage of a murder, but Chris Ford concludes the critical footage was deleted—meaning someone intentionally removed digital evidence from the home’s system.
• Chris Ford: "There's always a digital crime scene at every crime scene. ... No matter how hard you try to scrub clean or not involve, digital forensics is always there." (33:40)
• John Richter: "He says, that footage was deleted. ... Someone had to physically go in there and delete the camera footage. And I said, deleted, huh? Not corrupted. So that's when I knew the key." (34:08)

10. Family Battlelines and Lingering Damage (Preview of Next Episode)

• A war ignites over Nikki’s life insurance; Matt contests Alex (his stepdaughter) being a beneficiary, wanting to deny her "because he hated her that much" (34:42).
• Nikki’s daughters take sides, with some defending their father and attacking other relatives online.
• Alex: "Honestly, we can’t wait to face this family in court and call out their lies... our day in court will come and hopefully my—" (35:07)
• Family ties are permanently severed, and Amy (Nikki's sister) expresses her agony at being unable to rescue the girls (35:42).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matt Liley, anger towards Nikki’s family:
  "The family has now started a war. ... I want to bury the bitch, Matthew. I want to bury the whole fucking family." (03:39)

• John Richter, on Matt as suspect:
  "Cocky asshole was a good word. You could tell right away he was a narcissistic type of person. Controlling. You know, he even wanted to be in control of the interview and how it progresses and what we're gonna do, trying to lead us while his wife is missing." (14:14)

• Amy (Nikki's sister), frustration at lack of evidence:
  "I was angry because I was like, are you kidding me? We all know he did it, and you're gonna let him get away with it because he didn't leave you a videotape of him strangling her? That's what you need?" (32:01)

• John Richter, after endless audio review:
  "I've never met her, but I know her better than any other person I've ever met. ... But I know the end. And I think she knew the end too. And she protected those girls." (29:18)

• Chris Ford, on digital forensics:
  "There's always a digital crime scene at every crime scene. ... No matter how hard you try to scrub clean or not involve, digital forensics is always there." (33:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:54 — Matt reports Nikki "incapacitated" in call to her dentist.
• 03:10–03:39 — Matt’s call to brother Paul reveals hostility.
• 04:07 — Detective Richter on Matt’s initial version of events.
• 05:03 — Nikki's sister Amy: "He did it."
• 08:45 — Unbelievability of surveillance cameras failing to capture Nikki's exit.
• 10:47 — Alex describes her confusion the night Nikki’s body is found.
• 15:43–16:42 — Discovery of vast, uncatalogued surveillance tape archive.
• 18:21 — Amy describes the family’s despair as investigation stagnates.
• 21:18–21:33 — Chris Ford enters as a "new set of eyes" on the evidence.
• 22:59–24:07 — Audio from Nikki's car and Ford’s revelations about abuse.
• 25:27 — Richter explains the grueling nature and content of nightly fights.
• 29:18 — Richter's deep identification with Nikki.
• 32:01–32:30 — Amy’s outrage: “We all know he did it ... That's what you need?”
• 33:40–34:23 — Ford deduces missing/deleted digital footage is itself key evidence.

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Tone and Original Style

The episode maintains a somber, intense, and personal tone, blending journalistic investigation, police procedural, and the raw testimony of those closest to Nikki. Detective Richter’s narration is especially impactful—direct, sometimes coarse, weary from emotional labor. The inclusion of direct family voices, especially Nikki’s children and sister, grounds the story in family trauma, while the detectives and prosecutors speak with a mixture of professional frustration and deep personal investment.

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Conclusion

"Caught on Tape" shows the hidden cost—personal, emotional, procedural—of investigating a case where technological obsession is both the weapon and the means to obscure truth. This episode details the slow, grinding work of digital forensics and the devastating, lasting divides in a family subjected both to violence and to the manipulation that followed. As the episode ends, the investigation is at a fragile turning point: the clues lie not just in what was saved, but in what was deleted.

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Transcript

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Listen to all episodes of Watching youg Ad Free right now by subscribing to the Binge. Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access. Wherever you listen the binge feed your true crime obsession.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

The Bench. Hey all, wanted to let you know verbal abuse and domestic violence are a part of this story. It's a cautionary tale to listen to with caution. Friday night into Saturday morning, and Nikki goes missing. A whole week passes where no one knows where she is. During that week, her husband Matt recorded a bunch of his own phone calls. He reached out to Nikki's dentist to ask if she called the office. He called Nikki's father to complain that Amy wasn't keeping him in the loop on how the missing posters should look. And when a doctor's office called and asked for Nikki, Matt sort of overshared.

[Matt Liley]

My name is Matt. I am her husband. She's incapacitated right now. We don't know where she is. All right, I'm sorry about that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But one fiery call stood out from the many he recorded that week. Matt called his older brother, Paul Liley.

[Matt Liley]

The police were just here. What happened? Apparently her family has not only been calling the police, but have been secretly missing. Meeting with the police about me and foul play. No body found? No, of course not.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Paul promised to come stay as soon as possible to help give his brother reinforcements.

[Matt Liley]

The family has now started a war.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Matt means Nikki's family.

[Matt Liley]

Will you have your big brother? Who's coming to war, Paul? I want to bury the bitch, Matthew. I want to bury the whole fucking family. Don't say anything on the phone. I'm recording. I'm not worried. I'm not saying anything stupid. I want to go to war with them and meet them head on.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

By Monday, law enforcement heard about her disappearance. Nikki's family had contacted the police department and they naturally had called her husband, Matt.

[John Richter]

Look, when we did an interview with him on Monday, just over the phone, you know, two young kids at home. She leaves, leaves her phone behind, her purse, all her belongings. And, you know, he made it seem that she just had maybe some kind of a break with reality or something.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Richter wasn't buying it.

[John Richter]

She would never leave. Two days, now you're into it. No phone.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Something else stood out too.

[John Richter]

He also mentions in that first recorded interview over the phone that they had an argument.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Matt told cops he'd wanted to have sex. He'd expected it because it was date.

[John Richter]

Night, if she didn't want to. And we're fighting. And then of course, three or four hours later, now she's missing and he can't tell us when she left.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

After her body was found, some people in Nikki's circle immediately suspected Matt was responsible.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I just was like, I'm not stupid. Like I know what this is. He did it.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

There was a lot of animosity already growing between Nikki's family members and then Matt and his kind of side of the family.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's Lisa Jones, the DA who happened to be there when they found her body. In fact, when Nikki was missing, her mother, Harriet Garrett, had apparently confronted her son in law. Here's Matt complaining about her accusation.

[Matt Liley]

Harriet thinks I killed her daughter.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

What?

[Matt Liley]

Harriet said, I think you killed my daughter and you were going to rot in hell and I'm gonna do whatever I can to come after you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All right, all right. We need to call.

[Matt Liley]

This is fucking bullshit.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It's one thing to believe, even to know in your heart who the killer is. It's another thing to investigate that crime, to prosecute the assailant. And the medical examiner. The Gwinnett County PD quickly realized that the true cause of Nikki's death might be harder to determine than it seemed. Lisa Jones, who was working at the DA's office at the time, laid out.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Why it would have been different if Nikki had been, you know, dumped on one day and you find her six days later. And the temperatures were in the 30s, but it was July in Atlanta, the summer heat.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The position of the body worked against.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Investigators, and so that prevented the medical examiner from being able to really give a definitive cause of death. So she had to rule the death as undetermined, because with the body being face down, there was a lot of pooling of blood. Because obviously the weight of your body and your face is face down. I mean, it goes to your eyes, it goes to wherever.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

There was no gunshot wound, no blunt force trauma. But beyond that, her death remained something of a mystery.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

My layman's understanding of it was because of that you couldn't really see petechia in her eyes that you look for when somebody's been strangled.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But no one in law enforcement doubted for a moment that this was homicide.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

It's very rare that anybody walks down their streets in their neighborhood naked. Okay, so she's nude. That's a huge indicator that she didn't get that way willingly or didn't go there willingly. The bottoms of her feet were absolutely clean, so she didn't walk herself there. I remember this very distinctly, is that one of the things that Nikki's sister said was that Amy and Nikki, I think the girls maybe had gone to get their nails done, like, right before this had happened. Looking at the body itself, her nails were pristine. And they had just like they had been painted. And so there wasn't like a bunch of dirt where she was clawing or anything like that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All of this led police investigators to focus their attention on Nikki and Matt's home and the hours leading up to when she left. Doug Chatham, Nikki's dad told the police what Matt had told him.

[Matt Liley]

He said that they had had a fight the night before and that apparently she left the house between 4 and 5. And he told me that she left her cell phone, her purse. She didn't take her car.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So where was she going?

[Matt Liley]

He has told me in the past, she would sometimes, you know, after an argument, she would sometimes get out and walk around the block.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Walking around the block. Just as she exited, the view of the cameras. Cameras that caught her last recorded moments sitting on the deck, the front of the lively house, smoking a cigarette.

[John Richter]

Anyone would believe that he has 19 cameras outside, three or four cameras on the inside, a command center. And he didn't pick up anything. You kidding me? That she got out of the house and he didn't know it was ridiculous.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And he wasn't the only one who.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Thought that there were so many things that pointed that Matt may have had some involvement. You never want a suspect to go, you know, you never want a defendant to get away with murder. You never want anyone to get away with murder.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

From Sony Music Entertainment, you're listening to Watching you. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Episode 4 Caught on Tape. Where to begin? No question that Matt and Nikki had been fighting that night and for a long time. Matt said it was after that fight that she exited the frame, made her way with a toothbrush down the street and out of his life.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

He filed for divorce during that week leading up to Nikki's body being found. And so he had tried to portray her as being unstable and that sort of thing and get her civilly committed.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And you can hear him in one recording, dripping with pathos, like he was exhausted by some long, drawn out drama that he no longer had the time for. Like, he was cutting short some elaborate ruse Nikki was performing. Not what we now know to be the truth, that Nikki was lying dead just a few blocks away that night. The night they found her body, Amanda and Ripley were at home without a clue.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

Then all of a sudden, now we look outside and there's an ambulance out there and hear a bunch of commotion downstairs.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

At some point, a police officer came upstairs and said to Amanda, your dad wants to see you.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

And so, like, I went downstairs and, like, he's laying on the floor with an oxygen mask on, grabbing my arm. Like, was it her? Was it her? I'm like, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Like, was what her? Like, the first thought in my mind was, oh, someone saw her. I wasn't thinking she was dead. I couldn't handle it anymore. Like, I. This was terrifying. Like, I have no idea what's going on. I was like, I can't do this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The girls didn't know what Matt was talking about. No idea that their mother had been found, let alone that she was dead.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

We were, like, sitting watching out the windows towards the front of the house, and, like, we see more police coming and like now news reporters are out there.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Before they could ask their dad or go outside and ask their big sister, the two girls were taken away.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

Then eventually, it was basically like, hey, pack some bags up. And so we're packing bags to go somewhere we don't know. My dad's, I think it was. The divorce lawyer came and picked us up.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Alex was just outside, right by the curb of the house. Amy was there, too.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I remember Alex desperately wanting to go back up to the house and saying. I remember her, like, crying and saying, no, they're my sisters. I need to get them. I need them. They're my sisters. And I was like, baby, you can't just simply because, number one, there's no way Matt would have allowed her to talk to them or see them or anything. And number two, who knows what would have gotten said that would have been somehow damaging or whatever. Like when everything is in crisis.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Looking back, this wasn't just the day the girls lost their mother. It was the day they lost each other. This was the moment the girls were split permanently. Because as things went on, battle lines would be drawn, words would be said, things you can't take back. I am Nina Khrushcheva, the great granddaughter of Nikita Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union in 1962. And I'm Max Kennedy, the nephew of US President John F. Kennedy. We explore what was a terrifying moment in history. The story of the Cuban Missile Crisis, how close the world came to nuclear war, and what they had to do to pull it back from the brink. The bomb, Kennedy and KHRUSHCHEV. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Liley]

Close your eyes, exhale.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new CO contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

The discount they gave me on my first order.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

1-800-Contacts. John Richter knew what his job was with this case. That wasn't the problem. The problem was how was he going to book the guy who he suspected did it?

[John Richter]

Cocky asshole was a good word. You could tell right away he was a narcissistic type of person. Controlling. You know, he even wanted to be in control of the. The interview and how it progresses and what we're gonna do trying to lead us while his wife is missing. Nothing to suggest that he was upset or anything. It was just another day.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Another day followed by another. What evidence was there to prosecute? Even the cause of death remained undetermined.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

The problem was, was that there just wasn't enough. You can suspect it all day long, but there was no way that I could prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law that he was the person that did it. Without more. I could think his behavior was ridiculous. I could think that he set it all up, you know, trying to portray his wife as being crazy, that he had all these security cameras, and just miraculously she turned off the security camera that night.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's what Matt told investigators. Nikki flipped off Matt's cameras on her way out the door and then somehow ended up dead down the street. There was no smoking gun that they could see, but there was all the years of footage the surveillance state Matt had set up around the perimeters of the home. Investigators obtained a warrant to search the lyly house and Matt's war room.

[John Richter]

Well, it's just a small room, maybe the size of this room, 15 by 15, and monitors and a big five or six TV monitors with different camera shots on each one. And then the server was so big, they had to have our experts, our forensic guys come in and take the server apart because it was so, you know, something they said that you would see in the military. So, yeah, it was impressive.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They obtained the videos and soon realized there was a big problem on their hands, one they hadn't anticipated. These videos, there were thousands of hours to sift through before any charges could be brought. Lisa Jones, one of the prosecutors in the DA's office, would need to sign off from the investigators.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Ultimately, there was, I think, around like 55,000 short videos that were discovered.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Even if they were convinced that Matt had murdered his wife Nikki, they'd need to review all the evidence first. And just reviewing the evidence would take them countless hours. It took them a while to even open up the files they'd recovered.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

And so the police department had spent the time sending it off to. I think we sent it off to the FBI, maybe.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

On top of that, the videos weren't categorized by date and time.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

So it wasn't like you could just, like, roll through footage and look at it. It made no sense. So then you were trying to put together, like, when did this happen? And kind of. And see if you found anything that mattered.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The detectives on the case hadn't encountered anything like this before. There was a mountain of surveillance tape to now pour through and no clear sense of how to evaluate it. Many of the files obtained from Matt's computer were unreadable to forensics investigators at the time. After some months, Matt left Georgia. He took his two girls to a cabin in Vermont. At this point, he'd lawyered up and wasn't cooperating with the investigation.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

He just wanted to take everything. That's what it felt like was that he was just taking everything from us, and particularly from Alex.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

What appeared to be an open and shut case stalled out. What exactly makes a case go cold? The exhaustion of leads? The failed pursuit of time worn investigative measures? Or is it simply the pieces don't fall together in the right way at the right time?

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

The investigation had been going on for a year, and they had hit a wall. And I remembered I called and spoke to Detective Everson on my birthday, and he said, well, we're almost through going through all the video, but it doesn't look like we're gonna find anything. I didn't know what to say to that. I said, what? So what does that mean? That he just gets away with it? That was when Detective Richter came in and he said, this is my case, and I am. I'm gonna leave no stone unturned, and I'm not gonna rest until we know we've done everything we possibly could.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

John Richter is a big guy. Short crop, salt and pepper hair. This case had stayed with him from the moment he was across it. He'd been there on the day they found her. He had made a vow then to himself, his words, to find justice for Nikki.

[John Richter]

Because I was invested in this case from the day I saw her laying there in the woods, right? I was invested. So I wanted it bad.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But no one on his staff had been able to recover all the materials they'd gained through searching the house.

[John Richter]

And I would go back to him every six months, every two months, every three months. Please look again. Give me something.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Two years passed without an indictment or a meaningful break in the case. Richter was convinced that those files had the answers he needed. The truth about what had happened that night seemed to be in danger of slipping away.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

They were combing through all this evidence, trying to. Trying to find the one place where he made a mistake. And that was the thing that they said to us is, like, they always make a mistake. They think they're perfect. They never are. So they were like, don't give up.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Digging into the surveillance tape was their best shot. So investigators turned to a man who Knew his way around computers.

[Chris Ford]

My name is Chris Ford. I'm an investigator with the District Attorney's office. Currently, I'm an assistant chief supervisor in the DA's office, but for 10 years, I was a computer physics examiner.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Chris Ford is a bulky guy, a buzz cut of silver hair and broad shoulders. Looks more like someone you'd imagine running a boot camp at the gym. Ex military, reserved. Not examining ones and zeros in the coding logs of surveillance tape.

[John Richter]

You know, he helped me get to where I needed to be.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

John Richter approached Ford about the materials found on Matt's computer.

[Chris Ford]

I know these two guys have already looked at it. Hey, Ford, why don't you look at.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This case for me?

[Chris Ford]

And just, you know, just a new set of eyes.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

That's what he said.

[Chris Ford]

I just need a new set of eyes to look at it. We're at a standstill with the case. I'm like, sure, I'll take a look at it. And that's where I started with it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Pretty quickly, Ford discovered some things that the investigators had no idea about.

[John Richter]

He goes, oh, do you want any of those digital recordings or any of those audio recordings that are on his. And I'm like, what? I had no idea. And he goes, yeah, there's just thousands of hours of just random. He's like, I listened to a little of it, but I go, yes, I want him. And that's when it started.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Ford was able to realize that there were tons of audio files on one of the computers that had been seized.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

For years, detectives had been focused on the surveillance tape. A dizzying, uncatalogued tic tac toe board of silent footage.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

And somehow, I think the focus in the beginning had been so much on the video files. Can we see what happened? Because there's so many surveillance cameras. There's gotta be something that we could see that was odd. And so I think the focus at that point was there.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And now they discovered a massive archive of recordings, too. It's as though they'd been watching a movie in black and white that suddenly burst into color.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

So we found all these audio files that had been there but just hadn't been listened to.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And the recordings weren't just inside the house. It was clear that some of them were Nikki's car. And Matt's obviously not there because she's talking to somebody about him.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Suffice it to say, my marriage is over. It's never good enough. Everything I do is suspect. And I'm just. I'm just fed up. I'm fed up. With trying to meet his expectations. I'm fed up with the bullshit. And I just. I just told him, and I was nice about it. I said, matt, look, you know, I do the best I can do.

[John Richter]

So that's when I start. Me and My analyst, Amy McLeod, a saint, my partner, probably because, you know, it was just me. So she sat across from me, you know, she was the analyst. You'd go to her for, hey, analyze these phone records or help me look at this. And she always would help me, like. So I said, you take this half, I'll take this half. And these are the notebooks. I don't know, I got maybe ten of these hundred page notebooks. So we just started from the beginning and started taking notes. And the information was just unbelievable.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Unbelievable because of what was on the tapes. No doubt something you've already heard, but also because of the sheer volume. A story suddenly locked into place where there hadn't been one before. A record of years of Matt's controlling.

[John Richter]

Behavior eight hours a day for at least a year. You know, I was consumed. I didn't work a lot of other things at the time. I just did this. So, you know, you're living her life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Detective Richter's life, day in and out, was defined by this puzzle that he began to unravel as he listened to the countless hours of recordings. Who was Nikki and what happened to her?

[John Richter]

So it would just start. Hey, you know, the recording would start. He's. We're gonna talk about all the things you did wrong today or didn't do right. This is your recorder. It's on right now. I'm gonna make the first file. And now this is after her work day. You can tell she just got home from work. Because I'm tired.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

I just wanna.

[John Richter]

He didn't work all day. He's just. And I remember one. He would say, oh, you passed me. I was sitting on the couch watching tv, and you walked down the hall and you didn't give me a kiss. And she said, I'll give you a kiss. He says, yeah, but not. Not a. Not a real kiss on the lips. Like, you know, passionate. You just gave me a little peck. I guess each time she passes, like a ship in the night, she has to, you know, passionately kiss this slob of a man.

[Matt Liley]

Coincidentally, you forget to say you love me.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

It's because you make me feel guilty.

[John Richter]

Stuff like that. That would go on for hours and hours until she had to go to work. You could tell how frustrated she would be and just mentally drained. Like it Would go from midnight to six in the morning and then she would just go to work and then come back and then that. That conversation would start again.

[Matt Liley]

I don't ask for much that all you have to do is not lie, give me attention.

[John Richter]

I'm not lying like a piece of.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

And give you all the attention you demand.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Imagine being a homicide detective, John Richter being reasonably convinced that this man, Matt Liley, had something to do with his wife's death. And then years after her body is found with still no conviction having to listen to these recordings eight hours a day, Monday through Friday every week.

[John Richter]

I was not a happy person for that year because I was listening to this stuff, right? And my girlfriend at the time was now my wife. Thank God she could have left because I was just an asshole. I was mad, I was frustrated, right? We hearing all that, it's just nobody knows. Like me and the analyst Amy, the amount of. Nobody listened to any of it really, except us.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Just listening to these recordings was messing with Richter's mind. Nikki was living through it. And as Richter listened, what started to come into focus was how unrelenting and impossible the situation was. And how patient Nikki was.

[John Richter]

I heard it first few years before she's killed. And she's a beautifully calm. Could you imagine sitting in the command center with this doof about all the things you did wrong this week? You talked to your mom too much, you were on Facebook too much. You this. And she would go, okay, I'm sorry man, I'll try to. You didn't give me enough oral sex this week. Oh, I. Well, three times, you think? Oh, three times in a week. Oh, think about that part of it. She had to do that. She probably hated him. I know the real her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He also could see that she was running out of options.

[John Richter]

She's a 95 pound, 5 foot 3 or something. He's 652 2, 60, right? So. So what defense does she have against him other than her voice? Get the fuck away from me. Leave me the fuck alone. That's all she has. Because he could physically. So think about it, that's her only way is to scream. He was an asshole and she dealt with him for a long time. So anybody who says that it was an equal thing where she was loud and feisty and yelling at him, Are you kidding me? There might be one or two out of 2,000 that are like that. The rest are him with his mind control and his manipulation and his torture. You hate me.

[Matt Liley]

You trash me around town, you trash.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Me with your family.

[Matt Liley]

You call the cops on me in a second.

[John Richter]

You have called the cops on me.

[Matt Liley]

You lie about me, you lie to me, but I'm the one disrespecting you.

[John Richter]

How do you listen to that kind of thing and then not be emotionally involved? Now, I didn't realize to the extent it was affecting my. But it affected my personal life, friends, family, you know, you just withdraw a bit. And I'm not like that usually. Especially if you get a couple of beers and me and a whiskey or two, you know, I'll talk and we'll have some fun.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It wasn't just a rough year. It was a year that changed him forever.

[John Richter]

She's dead. I've never met her, but I know her better than any other person I've ever met. I know her attitude. I know her little traits. I know how intelligent she is, witty, a great mother. All these things just from these recordings. But I know the end. And I think she knew the end too. And she protected those girls.

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Shopping is hard. I can never find anything in my size. I don't even know my size. I buy my clothes the same place.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I buy my groceries.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

There's a better way.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

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[Narrator/Voiceover]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Your personal stylist sends pieces picked just for you.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

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[Narrator/Voiceover]

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[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

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[Narrator/Voiceover]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

The recordings between Matt and Nikki showed a relationship in turmoil and in Matt, a spouse who had become obsessed with tracking every micro movement of his family's whereabouts. Up until, of course, Nikki and her toothbrush allegedly disappeared without a trace. And Matt announced his plans to file for divorce to investigators and the county prosecutors. There was now a clear motive for Matt to kill Nikki. A controlling husband with a long now documented history of manipulative and abusive behavior. Here's Lisa Jones again.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

Not only was there emotional abuse, there was physical abuse which led us to, you know, start thinking like, oh, he's capable, you know, without question, he's absolutely capable of physical violence as well.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Still, as of yet, no one had seen or heard Matt carry out the act of murdering his wife in a Fit of rage. Nicky's sister Amy was beyond frustrated.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I was angry because I was like, are you kidding me? We all know he did it, and you're gonna let him get away with it because he didn't leave you a videotape of him strangling her? That's what you need. I mean, and I realize how petulant and childish that sounds now, but that was the emotion I was having at the time, was I was like, are you serious? You're gonna throw in the towel because he didn't leave you video of him actually killing her?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But there was no evidence of Matt carrying out the body from the house and driving off towards the woods. Ford looked for just that.

[Chris Ford]

Once I got the audio files, and I started thinking, okay, here's the working theory, right? That he killed her, removed the body from the house, and dumped in the wood in, you know, nearby woods, right? So it was either a crime of passion or crime of just, you know, accident or something where he panicked, right? So he's not thinking straight. He takes the body, wraps it up, carries it out in the woods. There's got to be video of this. And the video was probably destroyed or he destroyed it. And I talk about this all the time. There's never a clean crime scene. Same thing with computer forensics. There's always a digital crime scene at every crime scene. There's always some kind of digital footprint there. And no matter how hard you try to scrub clean or not involve, digital forensics is always there. Cell phone towers, hits, WI fi, hotspots, just everything that tells on you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Ford knew that for the prosecutors to bring a case against Matt, the digital crime scene needed to be tied to the physical one.

[Chris Ford]

So I started thinking, how would he hide this? What would he do to get rid of it? What would he have to do to try to clean up his crime scene, not just physically, but digitally as well?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And that's when Ford realized that the smoking gun in this case wasn't going to be an image of Matt exiting the house with. With Nikki's body or DNA at the scene of the crime. It was going to be the absence of that evidence and who made it go away.

[John Richter]

He says, that footage was deleted. I go, what? He's like, it was deleted. Someone had to physically go in there and delete the camera footage. And I said, deleted, huh? Not corrupted. So that's when I knew the key.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To solving this case would be finding who covered up Nikki's murder. Next time on Watching youg. Nikki left behind life insurance after her death a new front opened up in the war between Matt and his stepdaughter.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Matt contested Alex being a beneficiary, and so there's this huge legal battle that went on for years. He wanted the money for himself, but mostly he just didn't want Alex to have it. He hated her that much.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Meanwhile, Nikki's daughters take sides two take to social media to defend their father.

[Alex (Nikki's daughter)]

Honestly, we can't wait to face this family in court and call out their lies and they've done nothing but cause us pain and torment and our day in court will come and hopefully my.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Dad will be able to come home. He is the only parent they have left in the world and so they are clinging to him. It doesn't matter that he was a monster. They don't care. That's their dad.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And Alex is surprised to find herself on the other side of the aisle from her sisters.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

It was hard to feel like I couldn't rescue them. It was hard to feel like I cared for these kids for so many years of my life.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And now I have.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

I have no way to help them.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Don't want to wait for that next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Watching youg ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast Channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge channel on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. Watching youg is an original production of Sony Music Entertainment. It's hosted and reported by me, Jonathan Hirsch. Jason Hoke of Waveland Media is our lead producer and co reported the series with me. Kathryn St. Louis is our story editor from Sony Music Entertainment. The executive producers are Kathryn St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Sound Design and Mickey by Scott Somerville. We use music from Epidemic Sound and apm. Our fact checker is Naomi Barr. Our production managers are Tamika Balance Kolasny and Sami Allison. Our lawyer is Meenakshi Krishnan. Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rosik, Jamie Myers and the whole team at Sony Podcasts. If you're enjoying the podcast, please rate and leave us a review. Thank you so much for listening.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Hey Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

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[Jonathan Van Ness]

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[Jonathan Hirsch]

Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Narrator/Voiceover]

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[Amy (Nikki's sister)]

See mintmobile.com.