Fatal Fantasy | 1. Overkill

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Binge Crimes: Fatal Fantasy | Episode 1: OVERKILL

Host: M. William Phelps
Date: March 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

The debut episode of "Fatal Fantasy" unravels the brutal 2001 murder of renowned DNA scientist Dr. Robert Schwartz in rural Virginia. Host and investigative journalist M. William Phelps delves into the chilling crime, the enigmatic crime scene, and the ripple effect on Schwartz’s family and community. As the investigation unfolds, layers of family tragedy, ritualistic signs, and potential occult involvement suggest something far more sinister than initially suspected.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Crime Scene Discovery (04:13–06:30)

• Timeline: December 10, 2001. Dr. Schwartz fails to show up for work, prompting concern from coworkers.
• Discovery: Neighbors, asked to check on Schwartz, come upon a gruesome scene in his kitchen.
• Setting: His home is isolated—rural, with the nearest neighbor a quarter-mile away. Description evokes both quaintness and seclusion.

“There is Dr. Schwartz... face down on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood, and had numerous wounds that were visible.” —Detective Greg Locke (04:49)

• Crime Details:
  • 31 stab wounds, some so forceful that the knife lodged into the hardwood floor beneath Schwartz.
  • Blood is everywhere, including smeared surfaces and even in a frying pan.
• Unusual Evidence:
  • Incision in the shape of an ‘X’ on his neck.
  • Pentagram-like wound pattern on his chest.
  • All signs point to a mix of personal rage and ritualistic violence.

Initial Investigation and Victimology (11:40–16:48)

• Lead Investigator: Greg Locke—his first murder case.
• Community Profile: Loudoun County is affluent and rarely sees homicide.
• Victim Profile: Schwartz is a respected scientist, pioneering in DNA sequencing, well-liked, punctual, and known for his work ethic and humor.

“Victimology becomes the number one focus. … Family is obviously number one.” —M. William Phelps (16:11)

• Early Theories: With no forced entry, it seems Schwartz let his killer in willingly.
• Investigatory Focus: Start with those closest to the victim—family, coworkers, neighbors.

Personal History of Dr. Schwartz and His Family (21:39–26:32)

• Character: Described as driven, loving father, with a gentle touch and sense of humor but also quirks.
• Tragedy: Wife Joan’s death from lung cancer deeply affected the entire family, especially daughter Clara, who found her mother’s body and spiraled into isolation after her siblings left for college.

“Her mother had been bipolar, as I understand it, and quite erratic at times. And she was close to her mother.” —Dr. Katherine Ramslin, forensic psychologist (24:22)

• Father-Daughter Tension: Single fatherhood, high expectations, and Clara’s struggles led to domestic strain.

The Nature and Specifics of the Murder (27:58–28:25)

• Autopsy Revelations:
  • Over 40 wounds; definitive evidence Schwartz fought for his life.
  • Several wounds inflicted post-mortem, suggesting “overkill” and personal animus.
  • Ritual elements: three-leaf clover-shaped wounds, pentagram, and ‘X’ incision.
  • The weapon: believed to be a long, curved sword.

“There were three particular wounds in a group on Schwartz’s upper left back… appeared to be in the shape of a three-leaf clover. The suggestion was that these three wounds had a ritualistic sensibility about them.” —M. William Phelps (28:25)

• Killer’s Motive: Investigators weigh possibilities—personal resentment, occult involvement, or professional motive (scientific rivalry or conspiracy).

Clues, Witnesses, and the “Stuck in the Mud” Incident (34:04–36:17)

• Neighborhood Canvass: Sparse population, but one neighbor couple reports three young adults (two males, one female) knocking on their door asking for help after getting stuck on the muddy road the night of the murder.
• Witness Account: The group is polite, non-threatening, seeks a tow for their car, and is described as unfamiliar with the area.
• Question Raised: Could this group have witnessed something critical? Coincidence or connection?

“Anyone who murdered Schwartz would not have visited a neighbor and called the tow truck to pull them out… But perhaps these people had seen something. Perhaps they were witnesses and didn’t even know it.” —M. William Phelps (35:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fantasies Gone Wrong:

  “Some fantasize about unicorns dancing in fluffy pink clouds, while others imagine that person they despise dying a slow, miserable death. This is the story of both, with the fantasy aspect of it all gone horrifically and fatally wrong.” —M. William Phelps (01:04)

• On Professional Reputation:

  “Dr. Schwartz’s murder was fueled by an enormous amount of rage. And yet, looking deeper… I began to wonder if something far more sinister was going on here.” —M. William Phelps (06:47)

• Autopsy Detail:

  “Schwartz’s killer repeatedly stabbed the guy when they didn’t have to… Overkill.” —M. William Phelps (28:25)

• Investigation Approach:

  “There are no coincidences in murder, only connections.” —Keith Jesperson, relayed by M. William Phelps (36:36)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:04 — Host sets up the “fatal fantasy” theme
• 02:15 — Detective Greg Locke asserts commitment to truth
• 04:13–06:47 — Crime scene description and grisly evidence
• 14:21–16:48 — Schwartz’s prominence in biotech, initial police focus
• 21:39–26:32 — Schwartz’s personal life and the impact of his wife’s illness
• 27:58–28:25 — Autopsy reveals extent and bizarre nature of the wounds
• 34:04–36:17 — Crucial neighbor witness account of the “stuck in the mud” group
• 37:41–38:27 — Teasers for next episode: family notification, ATM images, shocking evidence found wrapped in a closet

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Tone & Style

M. William Phelps narrates with a blend of journalistic detachment, grim curiosity, and respect for the victim’s legacy. First-hand accounts, forensic detail, and community context add texture, with interviewees lending a candid, sometimes somber, perspective on the events.

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Next Episode Tease

• Investigators deliver the death notification to Schwartz’s family.
• The search for the three “mud-stranded” young adults yields a major lead.
• Key evidence is discovered “wrapped in a cloth in a closet.”

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This addictive launch to "Fatal Fantasy" fuses small-town peace with sudden savagery, immediately beckoning listeners to puzzle over clues, family dynamics, and dark obsessions that may lie beneath the surface.

Transcript

[VRBO Representative]

At vrbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support, so we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care Guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between, and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist, but we've got the peace of mind part covered.

[M. William Phelps]

Listen to all episodes of Fatal Fantasy ad free right now by subscribing to the binge. Visit the Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access. Wherever you listen the binge feed, you'd True Crime A Obsession

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

the Bench.

[M. William Phelps]

Every human being fantasizes daydreams, lies in bed at night, drifts off during the day. While at work or school, perhaps envisioning a different version of reality, they might peer into the crystal ball of their future and see themselves hitting the lotto, having children, becoming a professional athlete, getting that girl or guy they've always wanted. Or perhaps carrying out a diabolical murder in the most brutal ways imaginable. Fact is, some fantasize about unicorns dancing in fluffy pink clouds, while others imagine that person they despise dying a slow, miserable death. This is the story of both, with the fantasy aspect of it all gone horrifically and fatally wrong.

[Detective Greg Locke]

You know, I can't force anybody to to believe what I have to say. I am stating truth. That's it. I don't care how it makes me look. I don't care what it does to my reputation. Dr. Schwartz deserves the truth. You know, he deserves the truth. His family deserves the truth.

[M. William Phelps]

Doctor Robert Bob Schwartz hasn't shown up for work. It's 10 December 2001. His co worker, Terry, said it was unlike him to miss a meeting and not come to work. The renowned scientist, a pioneer in DNA research, would have let someone know if he wasn't coming in. Dr. Schwartz is not answering his phone. So his boss, who happens to know one of the neighbors, calls and asks the neighbor to go over and check things out. Schwartz's driveway was under construction. To get to the house, you had to walk. When the neighbor arrived, he found another neighbor standing outside. He'd asked him if he'd seen Dr. Schwartz. No, the guy said, and he'd been there since 7:30 that morning. So the two men head down the driveway. They see Dr. Schwartz's vehicle parked in its usual spot over by the Stables where he keeps his horses. The house is made of fieldstone and cement, a cross between the hobbit and a Revolutionary War colonial.

[Detective Greg Locke]

It was a home that was in a very rural area. It was out away from most of the neighbors. The closest neighbor was probably about a quarter of a mile away.

[M. William Phelps]

They go around to the back of the house where there's a door into the kitchen inside. Now, everything has this awfully and eerily quiet vibe to it. The neighbor senses right away that something is off. There's a sour, steely, metallic smell mixed with the feeling of something even more alarming. Death. He takes one step into the kitchen, and there is Dr. Schwartz.

[Detective Greg Locke]

And upon his entry, he found a very gruesome and disturbing scene. Dr. Swartz was located in the kitchen, face down on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood, and had numerous wounds that were visible.

[M. William Phelps]

Now, Dr. Schwartz's neighbor is no forensic expert, but even to him, it's clear this wasn't some kind of robbery. There's no forced entry. Whoever had murdered Dr. Robert Schwartz walked into the house without resistance, as if someone invited them in. Investigators from the Loudoun County, Virginia Sheriff's Office secure the crime scene and begin taking stock of the gruesome attack. Blood is everywhere, on the floor, walls, countertops, smeared along the wooden floor. As a working true crime journalist for over 25 years, I have written about and studied hundreds of crime scenes. And I can tell you that the brutality of this murder went beyond a crime of passion. Schwartz had one arm sticking out, his eyes wide open like a doll. A large pool of blood around his head and torso, and there are even droplets of cooked blood inside a frying pan on the stove. Here's one of the investigators involved. Early on, Detective Greg Locke.

[Detective Greg Locke]

Dr. Swartz suffered over 30 stab wounds. Some of the stab wounds penetrated through his body and actually into the hardwood floor, indicating that he had been stabbed numerous times after he had fallen to the floor.

[M. William Phelps]

In total, schwartz was stabbed 31 times. 31 times. Delving into this case years ago, interviewing over 50 people for a book I was working on, I had so many questions about the crime scene alone. Clearly, Dr. Schwartz's murder was fueled by an enormous amount of rage. And yet, looking deeper into it, I began to wonder if something far more sinister was going on here. And then, combing through crime scene photographs, I come to an obvious, premeditated, carefully executed incision on the back of Schwarz's neck. A large X carved deliberately and clearly visible by what appears to be the tip of the of a large blade. Crime scene investigators on scene flip Dr. Schwartz over and find a series of wounds on his chest and stomach. Wounds in the shape of what appears to be a five pointed star, a satanic pentagram. In all my years of true crime reporting, I have never seen anything as barbaric as and bizarre as the murder of Robert Schwartz. Digging deeper over the years, this story became something I would have never suspected. Something hard to fathom taking me into a world of live action, role playing, dark and twisted fantasies, mythical worlds some believed were real, and even the creepy, sadistic underground world of vampires.

[Detective Greg Locke]

She was frantic and you need to tell me what exactly happened when the police showed up. She goes, they said he was under arrest for the murder of somebody.

[Terry Woodsworth]

I told you guys something horrible was

[M. William Phelps]

gonna happen and something horrible was coming and nobody wanted to listen.

[Terry Woodsworth]

I told you something was coming, but

[M. William Phelps]

all you guys told me was it was all in my head and look what happened. My name is M. William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist and the New York Times best selling author of dozens of true crime books from Sony Music Entertainment and M. William Phelps, llc. You are listening to Fatal Fantasy. This is episode one. Overkill.

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

Can't get enough of the story of Margot Freshwater. Do you need more than the episodes can provide?

[M. William Phelps]

Real quick?

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

We just launched a free true crime newsletter and community page to go along with our binge shows, including the crimes of Margo Freshwater. And you can access it at the link in our episode description [e-mail] thebinge you'll get behind the scenes reporting, case updates and a chance to chat with one of the show's creators and other fans. The newsletter comes out twice a month and it's totally free and it's where the story continues. I'll see you there. Just hit the link in the description or head to patreon.com thebinge Listen, we

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[M. William Phelps]

Just to the Northwest of Washington, D.C. loudoun county is not a place investigators will were accustomed to getting called out to a homicide scene. In a county of nearly 400,000 people, there had been only five homicides that year leading up to December 10th. Loudoun County Sheriff's Office Detective Greg Locke had yet to be involved in a murder investigation. That is, before he took the call to head out to Dr. Schwartz's house. His boss had warned him that this homicide was unlike any other the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office had seen in as long as anyone could recall.

[Detective Greg Locke]

I was actually in leadership class for the sheriff's office and I received the notification to respond to the scene of the homicide.

[M. William Phelps]

As I stood on the street facing Dr. Schwartz's property, an eerie sense of how his killer or killers descended upon his house washed over me. The property is set far back, away from the road. At night, with the lights on in the house, it would be easy to watch anyone inside without them knowing. Heather Greenfield is a local Associated Press reporter who covered the case extensively. I reached out to her back when I began writing my book about the case to get a better lay of the land.

[VRBO Representative]

This is one of the most affluent communities in the country, the most affluent counties. And so people, people live, it's just these beautiful rolling hills and farms and that have succeeded in Washington, whether it's in politics or it or in his case, science. They buy their, their dream house out in the outskirts of Leesburg, and that's indeed what he had done.

[M. William Phelps]

Dr. Schwartz and his wife Joan had settled in Leesburg in the early 80s and raised their three children there.

[VRBO Representative]

And I think that people were just shocked that something like this could happen. It's just one of the safest suburbs, fantastic schools, beautiful scenery, and it was just shocking.

[M. William Phelps]

And he wasn't just a scientist, he was famous.

[VRBO Representative]

Well, Dr. Schwartz was a renowned scientist specializing in biometrics and DNA research. And for the 15 years before his death at age 57, he had been one of the leading members of a team that was working on DNA sequencing.

[M. William Phelps]

Detective Greg Locke is tall and thin, sports brown hair, a thin mustache to match, and presents the overall look of a television detective. Smooth and laid back on that day, December 10, 2001, when the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office arrived on scene. Locke had been on the job for only a few months.

[Detective Greg Locke]

I was primarily assigned to robbery homicide, but worked all types of crimes, including sexual assaults, child cases. The only thing in particular really that stood out in my mind inside the house were the indentations in the floor of the kitchen where the body was found.

[M. William Phelps]

Schwartz's killer had stabbed him through his torso entirely, lodging the blade into the floor, leaving gouge marks in the wood. That's volcanic rage, and it speaks to the personality of Schwartz's killer.

[Detective Greg Locke]

I guess at that point was just the question mark of why we were still at that point trying to determine why this had happened to a prominent scientist who appeared not to have any disagreements or problems with any friends, neighbors, colleagues. So we were still trying to very much put the puzzle together.

[M. William Phelps]

Victimology becomes the number one focus. If you think of the victim as the bullseye on a target, those closest to him are the first ring around the bullseye, and you need to speak with them first. Family is obviously number one. But that would go along with making the death notification. So Locke reached out to Dr. Schwartz's employer and those he worked with.

[Detective Greg Locke]

He was well liked by his co workers. In fact, that was one of the things that they said, you know, he was always on time, always punctual.

[M. William Phelps]

Schwartz had worked on early DNA sequencing that could actually help solve his own murder. Back in 1978, Schwartz Co authored a white paper with Margaret Dayoff Science, which had set the stage for identifying individuals that by their DNA. So if Schwartz's killer had left his or her DNA at the scene with no obvious witnesses to the murder, this research he had done to prove individuality would help law enforcement prove who had killed him by narrowing down a potential suspect pool to one person. When I was standing along the road leading down into into the Schwartz residence, it occurred to me that the road itself then a dead end for anyone driving down it. They either lived there, had been invited there, or might have gotten lost and wound up on the road inadvertently. It's not one of those roads you just pass by or stumble upon. Detective Vincent D. Benedetto had been with the Loudoun County Sheriff's office for 15 years when the Schwartz investigation began. D. Benedetto's expertise is documents following the paper trail of murders and financial crimes. And almost immediately, as he begins thinking about the crime scene, D. Benedetto's thoughts go toward motive.

[Detective Vincent D. Benedetto]

Certainly was quite gruesome. Probably the most gruesome crime scenes I've looked at from Loudoun county, and it seemed pretty obvious he was stabbed many, many times after he had died. Rage is not usually a motiveless crime.

[M. William Phelps]

Then something comes up. The pathologist confirms by late into the night of the 10th that Dr. Schwartz had actually been murdered on Saturday, December 8th, probably in the evening. So Schwartz had been dead for two days before his body was discovered. And the pathologist reveals something else. The weapon they are now almost certain was not a knife, but a sharp, slightly curved object. Definitely similar, but with a much longer blade. This changes the game for investigators. Now they need to look back and focus on two days before Schwartz's body was found, which can often complicate matters. Effectively, your killer is now two days ahead of you.

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[Terry Woodsworth]

He Was a good guy. Yeah, he was a lot of. He was, he could be a quirky, there could be quirky aspects of him sometimes, but he was basically well loved and very likable.

[M. William Phelps]

At 57 years old, Dr. Robert Schwartz was one of the most respected scientists in his field. He had founded the Virginia Biotechnology association and been at the center for innovative technology CIT since the company started in 1986. A handsome guy in a Leslie Nielsen sort of way, with a bit of middle aged weight around his belly, Schwartz's co workers, family and friends told me the guy was serious about life and work, but also had a soft, humorous side to him as well. In other words, the polar opposite of a man you'd think was hated enough by someone to want to stab him 31 times inside his own home. Terry Woodsworth, retired today, first met Dr. Schwartz in 1986.

[Terry Woodsworth]

He didn't talk about himself a lot. He really didn't. He was focused on what was going on and all that business kind of guy and stuff. But he also had a sense of humor. And I began to sense that as we had meals and stuff together.

[M. William Phelps]

Schwartz was the oldest of seven siblings. A sister later lamented, Schwartz was a, quote, remarkable older brother who always had a gentle touch. Working alongside him for over a decade, Terry got to know Dr. Schwartz on a more personal level. During that time, Schwartz's wife Joan had become ill with lung cancer. It changed him. Before Joan got sick, he was more outgoing and social, but as she became sicker and he had to face the fact that he'd soon be a widower, he retreated more into himself and became quieter.

[Terry Woodsworth]

I knew that that was just a real tragic time when he, when she was ill and he was trying to take care of her and then basically woke up one morning and she was gone. You know, that was tough.

[M. William Phelps]

Joan Schwartz's death crushed the guy. Their kids were in their late teens and early 20s at the time, and raising them now fell squarely on his shoulders. Even when Joan was alive, the family had its share of rocky times. But once she was gone, Clara, the youngest, took it the hardest.

[Dr. Katherine Ramslin]

Her mother had been bipolar, as I understand it, and quite erratic at times. And she was close to her mother.

[M. William Phelps]

That's Dr. Katherine Ramslin, a forensic psychologist who has written about this case. She's talking about Clara Schwartz, who actually found her mother's body.

[Dr. Katherine Ramslin]

And then mother dies when she's in, I guess, 10th grade and she's bereft and her older brother and sister go off to college, leaving her isolated in the stone House with her father, who is very different from her and has expectations of her that she doesn't want to live up to.

[M. William Phelps]

Dr. Schwartz, a single father, struggled with how to deal with Clara and get her through high school. They lived together then on the farm where there was plenty to do and he expected her, as most parents would, to step up.

[Dr. Katherine Ramslin]

He still cares about her. I mean, he always was concerned she wasn't taking care of the horses. And that was a responsibility that would show that she could do things, but she wasn't doing it.

[M. William Phelps]

Dr. Schwartz's co worker Terry says as Dr. Schwartz's kids grew older, he opened up about how proud he was of Jesse, the oldest, Michelle, the middle child and even the youngest, Clara.

[Terry Woodsworth]

I knew about Jesse going to NC State. He was very proud of him. Michelle at jmu, he was very proud of her work because she was interested in some similar things as he was Clara. I think he talked about that. It was really hard when Joan died. It was hard on him. I mean, gosh, he's ending up being a single dad. He adored his kids and would light up when talking about them.

[M. William Phelps]

It always seemed to go back to Joan's death and Schwartz having to raise them alone. He strove to get the best out of them all and being an overachiever himself, expected it.

[Terry Woodsworth]

I think he was respected by people because he didn't know where he stood. He was not going to suffer fools gladly.

[M. William Phelps]

In all of the investigations I have been involved in, you have to consider the victim's chosen career path, especially when someone has high visibility within what is a high profile, profile company. We saw this recently with the healthcare CEO murdered on the streets of New York. So a question came up. Was Dr. Schwartz targeted after all? He knew big players within the scientific world. Hundreds of millions of dollars were at stake. Had he been involved in research or something else that could have gotten him killed?

[Terry Woodsworth]

Bob was at the second level down from the head of cit, so he was one level down from that. By the time he was killed, he was at the point where he was interacting with university relationships and overseeing that technology growth and development for the whole state.

[M. William Phelps]

Detective Locke was not ruling any possibility out.

[Detective Greg Locke]

There was some information that was coming out through the media that this might have been some, some bigger conspiracy. We had to focus on the evidence we were presented and work with that evidence to determine what had happened.

[M. William Phelps]

Locke's next point of evidence gathering was the grim task of attending the autopsy and seeing what unusual details of the crime the post mortem revealed.

[Detective Greg Locke]

It was very obvious. Dr. Swartz endured a very vicious attack. He had multiple wounds on his hands and arms, as well as over 40 lacerations, incisions to his body.

[M. William Phelps]

So Schwartz fought with his attacker, which meant there was going to be DNA. With over 700 autopsies under her belt, Dr. Carolyn Revercomb noticed immediately after she started her cursory inspection of Schwartz's body that he had suffered two stab wounds to his neck that went entirely through one side of his body and out the other side. She counted 27 stab wounds to his torso, along with several additional stab wounds, some superficial, some penetrating the skin an inch or more, others all the way through his body. Just as they had thought back at the crime scene, many of those stab wounds going all the way through Schwartz's body were inflicted when he was not moving and did not have blood pressure. Revercomb confirmed this was significant. Schwartz's killer repeatedly stabbed the guy when they didn't have to. So Schwartz was on the floor, three face down, not moving, his killer standing over him, jabbing the weapon into him over and over in a sordid murderous frenzy. Overkill. The pathologist then saw a possible pattern. There were three particular wounds in a group on Schwartz's upper left back, very close in space, that appeared to be in the shape of a three leaf clover. The suggestion was that these three wounds had a ritualistic sensibility about them or were inflicted for a purpose other than to cause pain and death. Then one other point Reverend Cohen made was the weapon. She believed Schwartz was murdered with some sort of long, thin sword, more pirate like than Conan the Barbarian. It occurred to me that Schwartz's killer had entered into some sort of blackout rage, meaning there seemed to be a disassociation with the crime on some level. I have investigated several of these murders and the psychological framing is always the same. The killer's intent jumps from murder to complete annihilation. Or, interesting here, punishment. Locke was certain the wounds inflicted post mortem were personal. Still, the working theory was that a dark, fantastical individual or group, perhaps practicing witchcraft or Satanism, was involved. One major fact investigators confirmed is that Schwartz had been interrupted.

[Detective Greg Locke]

It appeared from the forensic investigation that Dr. Swartz was in the process of cooking dinner when someone came to the house. There were no signs of forced entry, as if he possibly either knew someone who he allowed into the home or they gained entry without force.

[M. William Phelps]

Now they have a general timeline. Evening somewhere near 7 or 8pm on Saturday, December 8th.

[Detective Greg Locke]

Some of the investigators are detailed to other assignments that may consist of locating surveillance cameras talking to any other business or homeowners that might be in the area to try to obtain information of whether someone saw something recently in proximity to the incident. In this particular case, being in such a rural area, there were no other homes close by, there were no cameras, and there really was not a significant number of homes for us to go to to talk to people.

[M. William Phelps]

Detective D. Benedetto is back at home base, digging through finances and the paper trail to see if any patterns or information jump out. Was Schwartz in financial trouble? Did he somehow get himself involved in a bit of shady business that could have led to his murder? Could he himself be part of a satanic group nobody knew about? If there is one thing I have learned about murder, investigations of this nature include every possibility until you can exclude it. So Dee Benedetto began combing through Dr. Schwartz's credit card receipts and bank statements over the previous week to see if that information might tell a story.

[Detective Vincent D. Benedetto]

It was going to Ruby Tuesdays, a place where I'd eaten many times, and I went to get the credit card receipt from what I guess would have been his last meal. It just gave me kind of a chilled feeling to hold this and realize that, you know, here he was, normal guy doing normal things, having a meal out, and he did not know that in a few hours he would be dead.

[M. William Phelps]

For Greg Locke, after leaving the autopsy, like any old school police investigator, he next focused on the most obvious Dr. Schwartz's friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors.

[Detective Greg Locke]

I contacted the supervisor on the scene and asked if they wanted me to go ahead and start canvassing the neighborhood. And in that particular area, the residences were very far apart. So the two closest houses, which were approximately an eighth to a quarter of a mile away, is where I started my canvassing.

[M. William Phelps]

The chances that anyone in the neighborhood had seen anything were slim with the house being secluded, set so far back into the woods.

[Detective Greg Locke]

So the first house that I stopped at, there were two individuals home, husband and wife, and they stated that on Saturday night that a male knocked on their door. And they answered the door and were speaking with him and basically indicated that he and some of his friends had gotten stuck in the mud right up the road and wanted to know if he could use their phone.

[M. William Phelps]

Being good neighbors and decent people, the couple invited the young guy in.

[Detective Greg Locke]

During the conversation, he stated that he was really not that familiar with the area. Did they know of a wrecker service that could come tow them out? They did have a wrecker service in mind and actually made the call for him and had the wrecker service Respond to pull the car out of the mud.

[M. William Phelps]

And do they describe who these people were?

[Detective Greg Locke]

He said that there was three people there. There were two males and a female, and that one of the individuals did most of the speaking and they were not familiar with the area.

[M. William Phelps]

Anyone who murdered Schwartz would not have visited a neighbor and called the tow truck to pull them out of being stuck in the mud. But perhaps these people had seen something. Perhaps they were witnesses and didn't even know it.

[Detective Greg Locke]

When I spoke to the neighbors near Dr. Swartz's house, they really didn't detect anything out of the ordinary. And speaking to this individual, he seemed very polite and cordial toward them and gave them no reason to be suspicious of any improper activity.

[M. William Phelps]

Could these young strangers have possibly seen someone at the Schwartz residence? What investigators do know is that a man was violently killed in his own home as he was cooking a meal for himself on a rainy Saturday night. That he probably let the killer into his house and had little idea of the horrible fury that would imminently come down upon him. That the crime scene was offering precious few clues as to who the killer was. And that around the same time as this vicious deed occurred, three young adults were shot, stuck in their stationary vehicle just down the road, waiting for a tow truck to drag them out of their muddy confinement. As I thought about all of this, something Keith Happy Face Killer Jesperson once told me years before rang in my ears. There are no coincidences in murder, only connections. Next time on Fatal Fantasy. Investigators deliver the death notification to Dr. Schwartz's family. And the search for the three youngsters stuck in the mud produces a major lead.

[Detective Vincent D. Benedetto]

She seemed to take a pause for a second, and then she didn't look up. She didn't. She didn't gasp. She didn't. All she said in a quiet voice

[M. William Phelps]

was how before the first big break in the case comes in.

[Detective Greg Locke]

So it certainly appeared from the images that were obtained from the ATM that we now had persons of interest.

[M. William Phelps]

And a shocking piece of evidence is discovered. Do you recall where you guys found

[Detective Greg Locke]

was wrapped up in a cloth and a closet.

[M. William Phelps]

Don't want to wait for that next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Fatal Fantasy ad free right now by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. Search for the binge on Apple podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen as a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. Fatal Fantasy is a production by Sony Music Entertainment and M. William Phelps, llc, written and executive produced by me from Sony Music Entertainment. The executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch and Kathryn St. Louis and our Production manager is Samantha Allison. Jeremy Adair is my senior producer and script consultant and Matt Russell my sound engineer. I use Epidemic Sound for music and sfx.

[VRBO Representative]

The sun's shining, birds are singing, and all feels right in the world until

[M. William Phelps]

the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year.

[VRBO Representative]

At the American Psychiatric association foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to look live your best life and be your best you all year round.

[M. William Phelps]

Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more.