Detective Greg Locke (3:43)

There were markings in the mud that would be indicative of the vehicle attempting to have turned around.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (3:49)

So it appeared as though a random vehicle had gotten lost, pulled in and was turning around when it got stuck. How could it be a coincidence that this car of kids was was at the scene of a murder close to the time Dr. Schwartz had been killed in the driveway of the victim and they did not have anything to do with the crime? Most importantly right now though, who were they and where were they? My name is M. William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist and the New York Times best selling author of dozens of true crime books from Sony Music Entertainment and M. William Phelps, llc. You are listening to Fatal Fantasy. This is episode two Mud. The day after the body was found, detectives Locke and DiBenedetto headed out to James Madison University, over 100 miles southwest of Leesburg, to locate Schwartz's daughters, both of whom lived on campus, to inform the girls in person of what had happened. It's one of the most difficult and heart wrenching tasks a cop has, telling loved ones their father or wife or sister is not only gone, but their life was snuffed out by a murderer.

Detective Di Benedetto (5:56)

We knew there were two daughters that were both students at the university. Michelle was the older daughter and she lived in an apartment with some other students. So we were going to go down and let her know about it. We went there first and she was not home.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (6:14)

Michelle and Clara could not have been any more different. Michelle was prim and proper dressed, trendy, highlighted her dark brown hair, kept it long and straight, and had an active social life on and off campus. She went about her studies in a studious way and excelled. And whenever she could spare a moment, she checked in on her father. Clara had more of a rebellious attitude. She told people she had an IQ of 190, which is profoundly rare and considered to be in the gifted category. Based on photographs and also, as Clara's friends would later tell me, she came across kind of frumpy, homely looking. She wore little House on the Prairie type dresses she'd bought at a thrift shop, full skirted with fabric up to the neck. So needless to say, this made her a bit of an outcast. Both girls, despite their differences, even if they didn't know it yet, could probably help with the investigation.

Detective Di Benedetto (7:27)

We wanted to go find Clara, who did live on campus, and so we went first to the campus police department, which would be normal protocol when you're coming onto the campus. So we picked up an officer who then led us over to the psychological services unit on campus to pick up their on Duty psychologist to go with us for the notification.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (7:49)

People respond in a variety of ways to being told a loved one has been murdered. Shock and disbelief, denial, anger, fear. Some relatives demand information, others need psychological support and. And many more will have a visceral reaction.

Detective Di Benedetto (8:10)

We went to Clara's dorm room, which was on the other side of the interstate highway, rather secluded from the campus. It was an old motel, Howard Johnson's. It had been converted into a dorm. Rather lonely, it seemed like. So we went over there to notify her.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (8:28)

Cops have to gauge their response and decide from there how far to take questioning them.

Detective Di Benedetto (8:36)

What I recall from that is the four of us got out of the vehicle, went up to the door and knocked on it and Clara opened it. She appeared to be concerned. She didn't open the door all the way. I think Greg said, you know, are you Clara Schwartz? And she said, just a minute. And she closed the door.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (8:54)

Locke and D. Benedetto looked at each other. Here we go.

Detective Di Benedetto (8:58)

And we were kind of standing there wondering. She was gone for a few seconds and then she came back to the door and opened it up and she had her id. She handed it out to Greg.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (9:09)

Clara invited them in.

Detective Di Benedetto (9:11)

The other thing that I remember about being in that room was it was completely disheveled. I mean, doesn't look like she ever put anything away in the closets or drawers. Everything was just all over the place. There was hardly an inch on the floor that wasn't covered with something. It just looked like a total message.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (9:31)

Clara's hands were shaking. There it is, that visceral reaction I had mentioned, perhaps to the shock of three cops and the school psychologist showing up at your door.

Detective Di Benedetto (9:45)

She sat on the bed and he said something to the effect of, you know, I've got some bad news, I'm afraid your father has died. She seemed to take a pause for a second and then she didn't look up. She didn't gasp, she didn't. All she said in a quiet voice was how

Narrator / M. William Phelps (10:08)

it was all she could manage to get out. Here was a young woman, just 20 years old, shell shocked, blindsided by the worst news imaginable.

Detective Greg Locke (10:21)

It was somewhat unusual to me that there was no follow up. There was just one word. How. Not when, not where, but how.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (10:31)

After the news settled, they asked if she knew where her sister Michelle was. They could not find her and needed to inform her as well.

Detective Di Benedetto (10:42)

She was going to go help us try and find her and go over to Michelle's. And then she told us that Michelle was at the library studying so we asked her to go over there with us. So we went outside. She got ready and came out and joined us and we drove over to the library first with her, started looking in the library. I remember going up some stairs into an area where there's some cubicles that are set up for studying. And we weren't in the library very long when we got a call saying that Michelle was now at home.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (11:16)

By home, the detective was referring to Michelle's apartment just on the outskirts of James Madison's campus.

Detective Di Benedetto (11:25)

So we drove on over there.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (11:31)

Then something odd took place.

Detective Di Benedetto (11:35)

Michelle already knew and that puzzled me. Michelle was already distraught and hugged her sister and she was crying.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (11:45)

Di Benedetto and Locke made a mental note of Michelle knowing before they had even told her. It was kind of strange. How could she know? Maybe Clara had sent her a message. After Dr. Schwartz's oldest daughter collected herself, they asked if they could have a more private chat. First thing they noted was how different the two sisters came across. Michelle's apartment was spotless, everything in its place.

Detective Di Benedetto (12:20)

The way they dressed, acted was just night and day. Greg asked to speak to them and sat in the living room with them, began asking some questions and Clara was the one who was basically being asked and was answering these questions. She became a little more talkative.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (12:39)

DiBenedetto stood off to the side and listened as Locke spoke to the girls.

Detective Di Benedetto (12:45)

Greg was talking about doing a follow up interview with them when they got home, but he wanted to give the girls time to grieve and talk with their family so he was going to see them in another day or two up at home. I believe they do another interview with them and members of the family.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (13:02)

Locke and Di Benedetto left. You want to let tragic and traumatic news settle, give them time to process it all, then go back and begin to unpack what they might know. Questions still on the table were had either of them spoken to their dad on Saturday? Had they seen him? How was he the last time you were with him? And of course, would you know anyone who might want to kill your father?

Podcast Host 2 (13:48)

Can't get enough of the story of Margot Freshwater. Do you need more than the episodes can provide Real quick? We just launched a free true Crime newsletter and community page to go along with our binge shows including the crimes of Margo Freshwater and you can access it at the link in our episode description or@patreon.com thebinge you'll get behind the scenes reporting, case updates and a chance to chat with one of the show's creators and other fans. The newsletter comes out twice a month, it's totally free and it's where the story continues. I'll see you there. Just hit the link in the description or head to patreon.com thebinge Listen, we

Podcast Host 1 (14:27)

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Narrator / M. William Phelps (15:27)

Greg Locke is one of those detectives among the hundreds I have interviewed with the patients of an Oyster, allowing the evidence and information to develop slowly like a pearl. Sometimes your greatest asset in a murder investigation is to simply sit back and wait. While Locke and D. Benedetto were informing the Schwartz family of their father's murder, other Loudoun county investigators were making headway in locating the young drivers who needed a tow truck pull out of the mud. Hell, for all they knew at this stage, the tow truck driver himself could be involved.

Detective Greg Locke (16:14)

The investigators were able to locate the tow company and subsequently the tow truck operator. And in speaking to the tow truck operator, he stated that he remembered the individuals very well because they had stiffed him for pulling them out and towing them.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (16:31)

This could have thrown a wrench in the spokes of the investigation, but it ended up being a break. In digging for more information from the driver, it became apparent that his story was not adding up. At one time he said they had paid him. Later on in the same conversation, he said they did not. It all seemed very sketchy. Eventually they figured out that the driver had in fact been paid, but he had lied to his employers when he said they had burned him, effectively pocketing the money. A real scumbag move.

Detective Greg Locke (17:12)

I don't believe his employers Were very happy when they learned that he was actually paid. And this certainly adds an issue of credibility on his part. But it also provided us an early on lead.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (17:27)

Sometimes the most basic unimportant revelations break murder cases wide open. A serial killer I once investigated had fudged one entry out of 300 on a mileage log he kept. He was a traveling salesman. That one entry wound up placing him at the location where a body had been found, which led detectives to finding his DNA on the victim. So no detail is too small or insignificant this early in an investigation. Just keep following the breadcrumbs. Once the tow truck driver admitted he'd stiffed the company he worked for, Investigators realized he was more of a thief and liar than a killer. But he did remember that night and provided details about the timeline.

Detective Greg Locke (18:26)

And he requested payment. The individuals informed him that they didn't have any money. They would have to go to an atm.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (18:34)

The photographic evidence from the ATM ended up being crucial. One young guy, a disheveled looking, hippie like dude with long hair and. And a mustache, goes up to the ATM and withdraws the money for the tow guy. Then he hands it over. Up until now, investigators didn't know who these kids were, but the camera had caught not one, but two of them. What's more, as I went through the images, A strange bit of information emerged. Another unknown, younger looking male, kind of cagey and tall and skinny, with very dark hair, Wearing what appears to be all black, Walks up and takes the debit card out of the ATM slot.

Detective Greg Locke (19:23)

So it certainly appeared from the images that were obtained from the ATM that we now had persons of interest that showed up related to that particular vehicle. So certainly these individuals could be persons we could speak to that might have information.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (19:40)

This second guy in the ATM photographs had to be either the person who'd gone to the neighbor's house or the driver of the car stuck in the mud. Locke asked the tow truck driver about the vehicle primarily. Did you at least write down the license plate number? I did. The driver said.

Detective Greg Locke (20:01)

So at this point, with the information from the neighbors, the information from the tow truck operator, the information from the atm, it certainly added several pieces to our puzzle, but we still didn't have a picture.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (20:19)

Now they could find and speak to the three individuals who may have been the last people to have seen Dr. Schwartz alive. The dude they were hot on. Now, the driver of that car lived two hours away from the Schwartz house. Why in the hell was he so far away from home in the driveway of a man who was murdered on that night. And why hadn't he gone to the Schwartz house and asked to use his phone? Why walk in the rain and mud a half mile away when all you had to do was trek 50 yards down a driveway?

Detective Greg Locke (21:01)

So with the information we received on the license plate, we were able to send persons to observe the residents where the vehicle came back to be registered. In Prince William county, which is an adjoining county to Loudoun County, Locke stayed

Narrator / M. William Phelps (21:20)

behind while D. Benedetto headed out to Prince William to conduct surveillance on on the house where the car was registered.

Detective Di Benedetto (21:28)

At this point, we didn't have search warrants or anything along those lines, but we just wanted to stake out the house, see who was coming and going. We went down there and sat in a driveway a couple houses down from there, just watching the house for a few hours.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (21:43)

Turns out the Loudoun County Sheriff's Office also put out a bolo. Be on the lookout for the plate number of the vehicle stuck in the mud.

Detective Greg Locke (21:52)

The vehicle initially was not observed at the residence, but subsequently was observed in Prince William county and stopped by Prince William county police, where two individuals were occupying the vehicle. The two individuals were noted to be a young male and young female, which would somewhat meet the description of one of the males noted in the atmosphere photo. Both of the individuals were informed that they were not under arrest, that they were free to leave at any time, that we just wanted to ask them some questions.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (22:27)

Although they now had two of the three in custody, that third person along for the ride that night was still a mystery.

Podcast Host 2 (22:46)

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Narrator / M. William Phelps (26:17)

Detective Greg Locke rushed to Prince William county to question both persons of interest. See what, if anything, they knew and could remember from that night or if they had seen anything out of the ordinary he also wanted the name of the third person with them. The kid they now knew had sat with Schwartz's neighbor and actually drank hot tea and ate biscuits with them while waiting for the tow truck. They had shown the neighbor a photo of the one kid they had in custody, and the neighbor indicated it wasn't the same person he had met

Detective Greg Locke (27:01)

at the police station in Prince William County. Both individuals were separated. They were identified as Katie Inglis and Michael Foale, and both of the individuals lived at a residence there in Prince William County. Together.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (27:17)

Katie Inglis and Mike Foale were actually dating. Locke and his fellow investigators discussed the idea that perhaps they proceed with caution just in case the kids were involved. They also needed a warrant before they could go into Mike's home and poke around. As the Loudoun County Sheriff's office waited for word on the warrant, they needed to enter, exclude, or include Mike Foale and Katie Inglis, along with the third, still unnamed person with them on that night. I dug deeply into these two myself, interviewing friends and sifting through documentation about their lives. Mike was 21 and had this disheveled look about him. He wore a scraggly mustache, a bit of a goatee. He had dark, bushy eyebrows and long stringy hippie hair. That 1970s Led Zeppelin look and would have fit right in with Charles Manson's Helter Skelter group of misfits. He had been sleeping in the basement of his parents house. Mike's girlfriend, 19 year old Katie Inglis, had a wiry look. She did her best to come across as the girl next door. Her brown eyes were wide and globe like underneath big framed glasses. She kind of looked like the mashup of a librarian and a girl on the run from something. Her dirty blonde hair was straight and flat and wild, shy. She didn't say much of anything except maybe after being pressed. I spoke to a friend of Mike and Katie's over the phone.

Detective Greg Locke (29:11)

Katie is your prototypical, you know, blonde airhead. No offense to any of the, you know, blonde airheads. You might actually be listening, but she's the reason the cliche exists.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (29:22)

As for Mike, he added, he was

Detective Greg Locke (29:24)

happy to go along with pretty much anything, you know, he was. He enjoyed being part of something. I mean, and that was, you know, what it was. Knowing what it was wasn't as important as just being part of something.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (29:42)

During their interviews with Locke, Mike and Katie were fairly forthcoming about their movements the previous Saturday.

Detective Greg Locke (29:50)

They did say they had gone there and that they had gotten stuck and that they had gone to a neighbor's house.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (29:57)

But their reason for being there took the investigation in a whole new direction.

Detective Greg Locke (30:04)

So during the interview, they indicated that they were friends with the daughter of the victim, Clara Swartz, and that they had gone there that evening to visit her.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (30:17)

In other words, these kids who just happened to be at the Schwartz house on the night the man was murdered, were friends with Schwartz's youngest daughter and had gone to the house to see her. It placed them not only at the scene of the murder, but also left them with a question. Why hadn't Clara Schwartz's daughter mentioned this to them in her messy dorm room? This was a connection that had to be explored. One of the problems Locke encountered while interviewing Mike and Katie was their demeanor. It was a little unusual and difficult to grasp.

Detective Greg Locke (31:01)

I got the impression that Katie was somewhat oblivious if she had been involved in this, with that said, that she didn't understand the magnitude of what had happened. I believe Michael was more nervous and anxious.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (31:22)

While it's nerve wracking being compelled to answer questions from police, both Mike and Katie still seemed able and willing to talk, and so far had not asked to have an attorney present. Of course, the main question became who was the guy who spoke to the neighbors?

Detective Greg Locke (31:43)

His name was Kyle Hulbert, and he certainly became a person that we needed to speak to.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (31:49)

They were all friends. None of them went to college or worked. So they kind of hung around all day and indulged in games such as Dungeons and Dragons and magic.

Detective Greg Locke (32:05)

There were some different role playing games that they played.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (32:11)

Dungeons and Dragons is a romantic, fantasy filled, medieval world type of game. Players have to evade monsters, fight dragons, and rescue damsels in distress. It's a form of fantasy escapism that appeals to the kinds of kids who love Lord of the Rings and Conan the Barbarian. Often it's played with pieces on a board and driven by by the roll of dice. As Mike and Katie talked, however, they mentioned how their group of friends dressed up and played Dungeons and Dragons in real life sometimes. At the Beginning of the 2000s, online gaming was in its infancy. But Mike, Katie, Clara, and this other young man, Kyle Hulbert, were wrapped up completely in in that fantasy world. You might even say it was their chosen lifestyle. Dungeons and Dragons wasn't the only role playing game the group liked.

Detective Greg Locke (33:14)

They played a game called Underworld.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (33:18)

That game, the Underworld, was created and scripted by Clara Schwartz. Instead of studying hard at James Madison University, Clara had spent her time making up characters and scripting storylines for her and her friends to act out.

Detective Greg Locke (33:37)

So in this particular game. Clara was the Lord of chaos and the queen, if you will. And she pretty much doled out orders to different people who participated in the game.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (33:50)

Clara was struggling at university with schoolwork and the pressure to succeed. Some people turned to drugs and alcohol, food, sex. Clara lost herself in writing and playing the underworld. Still, how well did she know these three? Mike, Katie, and Kyle. I couldn't help but think of Clara and how she'd lost her mother to cancer and now her father so violently she was suddenly parentless, unmoored. Yet again. Mike and Katie did not seem capable of such a gruesome murder. The couple came across honestly as stoner types who played fantasy games and could not likely plan a Scooby Doo caper. Better yet, a brutal crime like the one that took place, but never judge a book, as they say.

Detective Greg Locke (34:52)

We were interviewing Katie and Mike. There was another team of investigators and Prince William county police that actually were executing the search warrant, which is where Michael Fall and Katie Inglis were residing together.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (35:06)

With many searches, you never know what will turn up until you look it up. Do you recall where you guys found

Detective Greg Locke (35:15)

was wrapped up in a cloth in

Narrator / M. William Phelps (35:17)

a closet, it being a bloodied samurai sword. The exact type of weapon the coroner suggested caused the savage fatal wounds found on Dr. Schwartz's body. And forensics would soon confirm with DNA and blood evidence at this weapon was

Detective Greg Locke (35:45)

the sword that was used to kill Dr. Swartz.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (36:04)

Next time on Fatal Fantasy. As those involved start talking, they begin to describe a group of role playing gamers. The bonds they formed and the secrets they shared.

Detective Greg Locke (36:18)

Kyle always kept playing the hero.

Podcast Host 2 (36:20)

He always wanted to be the hero.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (36:22)

But it ain't all hobbits and cuddly little elves.

Detective Greg Locke (36:27)

I called myself Wiccan, if I use the term to describe myself religiously, as pagan practitioners of witchcraft.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (36:34)

And then another domino falls.

Detective Greg Locke (36:38)

Based on information obtained from Katie Inglis and Michael Foale, an arrest warrant was issued.

Narrator / M. William Phelps (36:57)

Don't want to wait for that next episode? You don't have to unlock all episodes of Fatal Fantasy ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. Fatal Fantasy is a production by Sony Music Entertainment and M. William Phelps llc. Written and executive produced by me from Sony Music Entertainment. The executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch and Catherine St. Louis and our production manager is Samantha Allison. Jeremy Adair is my senior producer and script consultant and Matt Russell my sound engineer. I use Epidemic Sound for music and sfx.

Listener / Fan (38:24)

Sabrina Corrine I have been listening to a new show from the binge called Fatal Fantasy. I am obsessed.

Podcast Host 1 (38:32)

Oh my. Wait. I need to know more.

Detective Di Benedetto (38:33)

Tell me.

Podcast Host 1 (38:34)

Tell me everything.

Listener / Fan (38:34)

I will. It's a very shocking it's this like ultra weird crime story of a murder for hire plot that.

Detective Greg Locke (38:41)

What?

Listener / Fan (38:42)

Yeah, wait for it. Leveraged the dynamics of the underworld and underworld being a medieval fantasy game. Wait, so it's live action role playing gone wrong?

Detective Greg Locke (38:51)

Horribly wrong.

Listener / Fan (38:53)

And you can binge all episodes now?

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Oh my God, that sounds so good. I know what I'm doing on my drive home today.

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Search for Fatal Fantasy and subscribe to the binge podcast channel on Apple podcasts or@getthebinge.com and then once you're done, you can listen to one of the over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts a part of the channel while you wait for the next month's channel drop.

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I really need to know what happens.

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Selfishly you do, so that we can talk about it. So whenever you listen, search for Fatal Fantasy and hit subscribe to the binge to get all episodes all at once ad free.