Finding Mom's Killer | 2. The Stories We Tell

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer Episode 2: "The Stories We Tell" Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host/Author: Sony Music Entertainment

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Introduction

In the second episode of The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer, listeners delve deeper into the haunting mystery surrounding the disappearance of Noreen Boyle. This episode, titled "The Stories We Tell," unveils the intricate web of family secrets, personal struggles, and a young boy's relentless quest for the truth.

Family Background

Collier Landry Boyle, an 11-year-old boy, grows up in an affluent family in Mansfield, Ohio. His father, Jack Boyle, is portrayed as a devoted Navy pilot and a respected physician, while his mother, Noreen, is the heart of the family, deeply involved in cultural and social activities.

Notable Quote:
"I mean, my mother was my whole world. The sun rose and set with her. You know, I just loved being around my mom."
— Collier Landry Boyle [10:03]

Childhood Memories and Parental Dynamics

Collier's childhood appears idyllic, filled with nurturing experiences and cherished memories. However, underlying tensions begin to surface as Collier observes his father's increasing absence and mysterious behavior.

Notable Quote:
"My father would have this temper that you could just set off at the drop of a hat. And there was no telling what would set him off."
— Collier Landry Boyle [24:27]

The Catalyst: A Father's Secret

A pivotal moment occurs during a family outing when young Collier witnesses his father, Jack, in a compromising situation with a woman named Sherry. This event plants the seeds of doubt and suspicion in Collier's young mind.

Notable Quote:
"I see my father making out with Sherry. I mean, I just, I'm standing there in the parking lot just kind of looking at them like, what is."
— Collier Landry Boyle [26:00]

Noreen's Disappearance

Six months after the unsettling incident with Sherry, Noreen Boyle mysteriously disappears. While Jack publicly laments that Noreen has abandoned the family, Collier senses that something far more sinister is at play.

A Young Detective Emerges

Determined to uncover the truth behind his mother's disappearance, Collier forms an unlikely alliance with Lieutenant Dave Messmore, a seasoned homicide cop. Their partnership becomes the cornerstone of the investigation.

Notable Quote:
"Every day that I go to school, I'm trying to, like, check in with Dave."
— Collier Landry Boyle [07:29]

Unveiling Jack Boyle's True Nature

As Lieutenant Messmore delves deeper, a disturbing picture of Jack Boyle emerges. Contrary to the heroic tales told by Jack, Messmore uncovers evidence of Jack's infidelity, aggressive behavior, and deceitful nature.

Notable Quote:
"He's pretty much a philanderer. The more I talked to, the worse it got."
— Lieutenant Dave Messmore [31:12]

Further investigations reveal that Jack fabricated his heroic Vietnam War story, never having served as a Navy pilot. This revelation shakes the foundation of Collier's perception of his father.

Notable Quote:
"He never set foot on a boat. He couldn't fly. His whole life is a L."
— Lieutenant Dave Messmore [32:57]

Sherry Campbell's Involvement

Sherry Campbell, initially introduced as one of Jack's patients, becomes a central figure in the mystery. Her relationship with Jack appears to be more than professional, raising suspicions about her role in Noreen's disappearance.

Notable Quote:
"I see this ring and it's unmistakable because it is identical to a ring that my father had given my mother."
— Collier Landry Boyle [26:15]

The Turning Point

Collier's discoveries lead him to question the authenticity of his family's narrative. As he pieces together the inconsistencies, the bond between Collier and Lieutenant Messmore strengthens, propelling the investigation forward.

Climactic Revelations

While the transcript provided ends before the episode's conclusion, the podcast description hints at a shocking revelation where Collier and Messmore unveil the true culprit behind Noreen's disappearance—a figure intimately connected to Collier's life.

Conclusion

The Stories We Tell intricately weaves personal trauma with investigative prowess, showcasing a young boy's unwavering determination to seek justice for his missing mother. This episode sets the stage for further unraveling of the Boyle family's dark secrets, promising listeners a gripping continuation of Collier's quest.

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Production Credits

• Host: Steve Fishman
• Senior Producer: Drew Nellis
• Producer & Production Coordinator: Austin Smith
• Story Editor: Emil Klein
• Fact-Checked by: Ryan Alderman
• Sound Design: Scott Somerville
• Lawyers: Davis Wright Tremaine (Sony Music Entertainment)
• Executive Producer: Jonathan Hirsch
• Special Thanks: Emily Racik, Steve Ackerman, Catherine St. Louis, Sammy Allison, Fisher Stevens, Rhea, Julian, Dan Bopkoff (WME), Evan Krasik, Marisa Hurwitz, Ben Davis, Carl Hunnel (Richland Source), and Collier Landry for sharing his story.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and focuses solely on the narrative content of the episode, incorporating notable quotes to enhance the storytelling.

Transcript

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[Steve Fishman]

Listen to all episodes of Finding Mom's Killer ad free right now by subscribing to the binge. Visit the binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The Binge feed your true crime obsession.

[Collier Landry]

The Binge.

[Steve Fishman]

We all remember the stories our parents told us. Not just the bedtime stories, but the ones our parents told about themselves. The stories that summed up who they were, their place in the world, and the lives we, their children, might someday lead. As a kid, Collier Landry Boyle heard lots of these stories. There was one his dad especially liked to tell. It was a stunner. The first time Collier heard it, he and his parents were in the dining room of an exclusive country club hosting a party for his father's medical colleagues. Collier was 8 years old, crayons in hand.

[Collier Landry]

So I'm just kind of doodling away and we have all these doctors and their wives around us. My father is telling this story of how he was flying a solo mission for the Navy during the Vietnam War over the South China Sea and he gets shot down in his fighter plane. The smoke in the engines is billowing and he's trying to pull the ejection lever and his F14 tom hat crash lands into the South China Sea and he cannot get out and the water is coming in through the cracked cockpit right as he's slowly sinking. And he gets out his trusty bowie knife and uses the blade to cut his way out of the cockpit and he sees an island off into the distance and he swam to this island. And he survives in the jungle eating bark and slugs and waits for the naval team to rescue him. And my mother is listening and nodding because she's enthralled with the story.

[Steve Fishman]

Collier's mother has no doubt heard this story many times before, but Collier hasn't and he's captivated.

[Collier Landry]

Everybody wants to believe their father is a, you know, the savior of the world, right?

[Steve Fishman]

From Sony Music Entertainment and Orbit Media, this is Finding Mom's Killer. I'm Steve Fishman. Episode 2 the Stories We Tell.

[Collier Landry]

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[Steve Fishman]

It's January 1990 in Mansfield, Ohio. Collier Landry Boyle is 11. It's been a few years since he's heard his father tell that story of wartime derring do. A lot has changed. Collier's mother, Noreen, has just disappeared. His father, Jack, is in tears, telling friends that Noreen has walked out on the family, though he doesn't seem particularly interested in helping the police find her. Collier, on the other hand, is in a panic. He's established a partnership of sorts with veteran police lieutenant Dave Messmore.

[Collier Landry]

So every day that I go to school, I'm trying to, like, check in with Dave. Whether I ask him to come to the school to talk to me or I'm just checking in with him on.

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

The telephone, he would call me frequently and I'd talk to him whenever I could. He was just worried. Did you find my mother? And I said, no, Collier, not right now. I'm working on it, though. And just to reassure him, for Lieutenant.

[Steve Fishman]

Messmore, this wasn't just lip service. He was becoming fond of this odd, overly polite kid. Without his mother, Collier seemed all alone in the world, like he needed a parent. Did you feel like Collier was interested in, like, making a relationship with you?

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

Well, it kind of developed that way. I don't know that he was interested in it. But he had nobody else to confide in.

[Steve Fishman]

Right then, Collier needed someone to confide in. The story he'd been telling himself about his childhood had just been rewritten, and in Collier's memory, that childhood was idyllic. When he was growing up, his father was a Navy physician, and the Boyles lived on a base in Virginia. A Navy base isn't fancy, but for Collier, it was a place of wonder. Planes landed so close it felt like they were right next door. He spent hours digging up old military relics in the backyard, and his parents, Jack and Noreen, doted on him. They made a home in which a little boy could forget himself completely, even when his imagination got the better of him. Like one Day when he was watching.

[Collier Landry]

A favorite cartoon, there was a matador and a bull. And I remember, I'm gonna be the bull. And my mom was like, dinner is ready. And I run with my eyes closed, and I run smack dab into our Land's End table, and I split my head open. They take me to the naval base where my father worked at the hospital right there, the clinic. My mom is freaking out, and he's stitching me up, you know, And I remember I was, like, crying, and my mom was feeding me, like, salami and provolone cheese because we didn't get to have our dinner. But he stitched me up. And it was like one of those moments of, like, my dad being there to save me.

[Steve Fishman]

If Collier thought of his father as a hero, then his mother was his soulmate.

[Collier Landry]

I mean, my mother was my whole world. The sun rose and set with her. You know, I just loved being around my mom. I would help her, like, shop. She loved to go to museums, the theater. She loved cultural things.

[Steve Fishman]

Noreen took Collier everywhere from an early age. He'd join her for lunch dates with friends. He was her escort for plays and art openings, her style consultant when she picked out designer clothes or home decor or fancy jewelry.

[Collier Landry]

I remember one time my mother was, like, shopping at Tiffany's. There was a Rolex counter. There was this sales girl working at the counter, and I. And I got her to let me try on a Rolex. My mother was mortified because, first of all, we're not buying you a Rolex. Second of all, she was mortified that I had talked the sales girl into letting me put this, you know, whatever $5,000 watch on my wrist and walk around the store with it. I just thought it was fun to play a grown up. And she just got a kick out of that because she just was like, that's my little boy. Like, he just charms people into doing things for him, I guess. My mother used to say, he's 11 going on 40. That's what she would tell people.

[Steve Fishman]

Clearly, Collier wasn't a scrappy little kid coming home with mud on his jeans. Noreen didn't even like him wearing jeans. She dressed him in slacks and polo shirts. She cooked him gourmet meals. He loved her cooking, and she made sure his manners were perfect.

[Collier Landry]

If we were going somewhere, I was expected to behave a certain way where I was maybe upholding my aristocratic family, if you will.

[Steve Fishman]

After all, as Noreen reminded Collier, they came from good stock, money and glamour.

[Collier Landry]

My mother's last name was Schmid. We were related to Schmidt's brewery in Philadelphia. And she was related to Grace Kelly, Princess Grace of Monaco.

[Steve Fishman]

It wasn't just Noreen's side of the family. Collier's father, Jack said that his ancestors were prominent blue bloods from Philadelphia's famous main line, which made Jack and Noreen a good match. Both descendants of American Brahmins, they certainly looked the part. Jack was tall and handsome with a mop of dark curly hair. Noreen was petite, blonde, beautiful. And Collier, he was their perfect, precocious son, eager to entertain his parents.

[Collier Landry]

My mother had a station wagon where, you know, you have the front seats, then you have the middle seats, then you have the back seat that faces out the back, right. On road trips, my parents would be playing, you know, the philharmonic, and I'd be over the orchestra pit, which was the back of the station wagon, conducting as if I was conducting the orchestra. Maybe I was using a soda straw as my baton. Maybe they thought it was hilarious.

[Steve Fishman]

For people from a distinguished lineage, a no frills navy base was hardly the place to reassert their ancestral glory. Clearly the boils were meant for finer things. So when they got the chance to leave, they jumped at it. In 1983, they moved to Mansfield, Ohio. Now Mansfield, population 50,000, might not have been a hive of culture, but it was a step up. Jack and Noreen had decided it was time for private practice and a larger payday. The Boyles bought a modest house in a posh neighborhood. They put Collier in private school and eventually they expanded their family, adopting a little girl from China. Jack's practice took off. Patients liked him and sent their friends. It was a family business. Jack doctored, Noreen kept the books. Soon the Boyles amassed symbols of success. Three cars, including a BMW and a Range Rover. Noreen started collecting Louis Vuitton purses. Eventually, she'd owned seven. Jack had a reputation as a devoted and hard working physician. He even did house calls like an old fashioned country doctor. And tagging along was one of Collier's favorite father son activities.

[Collier Landry]

I was taking tap dance lessons, so I would tap dance for the patients. And I had this little harmonica which I still have, and I would play like the harmonica and like sing and do a whole little thing to entertain.

[Steve Fishman]

And so in the summer of 1989, Collier didn't think much of it when his father invited him to come along on an appointment. Way out in the country.

[Collier Landry]

We go to this party in the middle of the sticks and these are, you know, I mean this with all due respect, but These are rednecks. These are beer drinking, quad riding, you know, salt of the earth type of people. I looked around and I thought, this is a whole different world. And here I am in my little penny loafers, you know, my little polo shirt and little shorts.

[Steve Fishman]

Eventually, Jack introduced Collier to his patient, a woman named Sherry. She was 28, a mother of two, and lived just down the road.

[Collier Landry]

And I remember Sherry got on the quad and she said, do you want to ride the quad with me? And I was like, okay. I was like, I'm here. I'm like, I'm going to have fun, right?

[Steve Fishman]

Collier jumped on behind Sherry and they drove off. Collier was a long way from trying on Rolexes at Tiffany's, but he was having a great time. This Sherry lady, he thought, she's fun. Eventually, Collier headed off with Sherry's kids. They ran around the woods and skipped some stones on a nearby lake. Then Collier realized he hadn't seen his dad for quite some time.

[Collier Landry]

I look back and my father is walking with Sherry, talking to her, and he has his arm around her. They're in this very serious conversation. And later on, we say our goodbyes and we get in the truck and I ask my father, who is that woman? He tells me, she's daddy's patient and she's terminally ill, and daddy was consoling her. I was like, oh, that's terrible. That's absolutely terrible.

[Steve Fishman]

Collier felt bad for Sherry, but he'd done plenty of house calls with his father. He'd seen his father attend to plenty of sick patients. Actually, it sometimes felt like his dad was always, always out seeing sick patients.

[Collier Landry]

A lot of times he would come in late at night or he would be gone by the morning.

[Steve Fishman]

To Collier, it seemed like his dad was never home. In fact, Collier and his mother rarely saw him.

[Collier Landry]

I didn't really know what their marriage was, other than it looked normal. I mean, but what is normal?

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[Steve Fishman]

Around Mansfield, there were a few different stories told about Dr. Jack Bole, the well healed husband, the selfless country doctor, the courageous Navy pilot, and also, as some knew, a guy who loved a home cooked meal, though most of the time he had to fend for himself around the Boyle residence.

[Sherry Campbell]

So he's saying, you know, he eats on the run and hardly eats. If he goes home, he doesn't cook.

[Steve Fishman]

This is Mark Davis. Mark was born and raised on the outskirts of Mansfield in a big family where there was always room at the dinner table. Soon after he met Jack, he learned about the doctor's chronic malnutrition and offered to help.

[Sherry Campbell]

I said, well, come on out, my mom's a good cook, you can come on out sometime. So he just kind of absorbed himself into the atmosphere.

[Steve Fishman]

When he first met Jack, Mark was a mechanotherapist, a kind of physical therapist. He and Jack had offices near each other, which was how they crossed paths.

[Sherry Campbell]

I was in his office one time and I saw a picture of him on a jet and I said, you were a jet pilot? He said, yeah. I says, how'd you get your training? He says, they needed pilots and they just throwed me in one and that's how I got trained.

[Steve Fishman]

Mark, who enjoyed model planes, was impressed. Soon Jack was a regular at the Davis dinner table. Most of Mark's extended family lived nearby, and a bunch would regularly show up for dinner.

[Sherry Campbell]

I've always lived out in the country and we live a simple life. We didn't put up an error. And I think that's what he wanted, a simple life. He got to know my mom pretty well and called her mom.

[Steve Fishman]

So Jack was like part of the family. Yeah, Mark liked Jack and he was kind of flattered that the prominent doctor took to him too. Despite their different backgrounds, their friendship was easy. They'd prank each other, needle each other. Like when Jack tried to ride Mark's.

[Sherry Campbell]

Bulldozer and he was horrible at it. I said, boy, for somebody who can fly jets, you sure know how to crash a bulldozer. He was just, he couldn't run. He was a big ox.

[Steve Fishman]

To Mark, Jack seemed great. Rich but not snobby, educated but not pretentious, at home in the country and always up for good conversation and a good meal. So Mark got to thinking I would.

[Sherry Campbell]

Drop a little suggestion to him and you ought to meet my niece. She really pretty and nice. I'll tell you what, if you want a good cook, she's a good cook. I told him, I said, was she single? So next thing I knew, they were seeing each other.

[Steve Fishman]

Mark Davis niece, Sherry Campbell, the fun 28 year old who was supposed to be terminally ill. The patient Collier met that day at the country party.

[Sherry Campbell]

When she was around him, she was starry eyed. I mean, just like a little puppy, you know, just staring at him like, I'm so happy. And they acted like lovebirds.

[Steve Fishman]

And what did you think of the relationship?

[Sherry Campbell]

I was happy about it. I thought, man, he's a good guy and making a lot of money and she'll be happy with him and I know he'll be happy with her.

[Steve Fishman]

Just one little problem with his budding romance.

[Sherry Campbell]

To my knowledge, you know, he was a single doctor.

[Steve Fishman]

Collier had no idea what was going on between his father and Sherry. For all he knew, she was his patient. But he had begun to realize that all was not well between his parents.

[Collier Landry]

My parents were never really affectionate with one another. I don't ever really recall seeing them hold hands or embrace or anything like that. It had been a while since they had been, you know, I would imagine, together in any sort of way. A lot of times he would be sleeping on the couch and that's how I would find him in the morning. I definitely seen them argue, but I never knew what it was about.

[Steve Fishman]

What Collier did know was that the arguments could get heated and that sometimes his father could get real angry.

[Collier Landry]

My father would have this temper that you could just set off at the drop of a hat. And there was no telling what would set him off. We would go outside to play catch and he would end up trying to throw like fastballs and hit me in like the groin or my head to teach me how to be a man.

[Steve Fishman]

Despite his father's temper, Collier treasured their time together. He was an 11 year old boy. He wanted to be around his dad, wanted to impress him, to earn his praise. And so On Father's Day, 1989, a few weeks after that party in the country, Collier happily accompanied Jack on another father son triple, this one to his office to pick up some paperwork. On the way home, Jack wanted to make a little detour.

[Collier Landry]

So my father says, I'm going to stop, get a tan real quick. So we stopped at the tanning salon and out comes Sherry. I was like, oh, that's the woman from the other week, you know, the patient. And Sherry comes out of the tanning salon with these two radio control cars and she's like, happy Father's Day. And my dad's like, oh, what a nice surprise. And she's got the batteries and everything. And as she's, you know, handing everything over, I look at her, her hand and I notice a ring on it. My mother was very into jewelry and handbags and clothing and all these things. So I was always a kid who paid attention to like watches, jewelry, all that stuff. So I see this ring and it's unmistakable because it is identical to a ring that my father had given my mother that was a diamond slide ring and it had this like, shaft and the diamond slid back and forth in the shaft of the ring. And I looked at it on her finger and I looked up at her and I said, oh, I like your ring. My mommy has a ring just like that. I had never seen that ring before other than on my mother's hand. And then she looked at my father and kind of giggled. And I take the batteries and I'm all excited because I'm playing with a radio control car in the parking lot. And I look up and I see my father making out with Sherry. I mean, I, I just, I'm standing there in the parking lot just kind of looking at them like, what is. I'm just trying to go back to like play with the car. And I just keep looking like, what is happening here? So my father says, we, we have to go.

[Steve Fishman]

We have.

[Collier Landry]

I get in the Front seat. And my father gets in the car, and my father says to me, I need you to do Daddy a favor. I need you to tell Mommy that I gave you the radio control cars as a gift for getting good grades this year in school. That's the first time that I can remember my father asking me to lie to my mother. So we go home, and I tell my mother a lie. Inside, I'm just sick to my stomach, and I'm just torn up inside. My stomach is in knots. And then the next morning, I wake up. My mom says, why don't you go play with your radio control car? Take the radio control car out in the driveway. And I'm playing with it, and I'm so. Because all it is just playing back in my head over and over and over again. The ring, the kiss, the party, like, all these pieces. And I go in and my mother's on the porch. And I started telling her about everything. I feel so embarrassed. I'm feeling all of this, like, wave of emotions. She thanked me for telling her the truth. And I remember she very calmly got up and she asked me to go outside. And she went into the kitchen to use the telephone. And I heard lots of words and lots of screaming. Telephone. And all I could think about was my sort of childhood facade or family life as I knew it was over.

[Steve Fishman]

So let's get back to January 1990. Six months after Collier saw his father kiss Sherry. Collier's mother has just disappeared. And he's reporting to Lieutenant Dave Messmore regularly with clues. The kissing, the ring, all of it. Dave doesn't exactly jump up and down with excitement.

[Collier Landry]

So every time I'm telling Dave about any of this stuff, it's almost kind of hard to get a read on Dave because he's just very, like. He would go, hmm. So every time he would go, huh? I knew that he was thinking like, oh, that's weird. That was his way of reacting. He never let on that, like, that was a clue or anything like that. But he did because it was like, huh, that's worth noting. He's writing it down in his little book.

[Steve Fishman]

Dave doesn't say much because Dave didn't have much. He hadn't been able to find Noreen, and Dr. Jack Boyle still wouldn't talk to him. So with little else to go on, Dave decided to dig into the good doctor a little bit more. He started hearing stories, lots of them.

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

He had told people that his family was very important back in Pennsylvania, where they lived, mainline Pennsylvania people. None of that was true in Fact.

[Steve Fishman]

Jack came from a modest family. His dad was a firefighter. And Jack didn't grow up with privilege. He'd gone to medical school on a scholarship and also had a part time job. By that point in Dave's investigation, he'd started interviewing nurses.

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

He was pretty well known around the hospital and the doctor's areas for having girlfriends and picking up girls. And people I talked to, they said that he's pretty much a philanderer. The more I talked to, the worse it got. So I thought, well, it's not a normal situation. He's not a family man.

[Steve Fishman]

Dave was a family man. Family meant a lot to him. And this philandering thing, it offended him.

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

I talked to a nurse who had been dating him off and on. And she left town and she went to Florida. She was afraid of him. He found her condo. She said she came home and found that he'd broken in there. He took all of her clothes that he had purchased for her and threw them into a bathtub and then urinated on him.

[Steve Fishman]

As if that wasn't enough, the woman said Jack had left something disturbing for her. It was a photograph of himself dressed in his formal, white. White navy uniform, dozens of medals pinned to his chest, standing with his arm around a much younger woman.

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

As an indication that, I guess that you didn't stay around with me, but I picked up another girl, that type of thing. This is how bizarre he is. I mean, he's got a real deep, deep problem.

[Steve Fishman]

And what about Collier's favorite story? The one about Dr. Jack Boyle's heroism or the high seas during the Vietnam war?

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

I called the Navy investigators in the Pentagon, and they looked him up and.

[Steve Fishman]

And what did he do?

[Lieutenant Dave Messmore]

Nothing. He never set foot on a boat. He couldn't fly. His whole life is a L.

[Steve Fishman]

Of course, when his mother first disappeared, Collier didn't know most of this. What he did know was that his mother was gone. His father was involved with another woman. And something felt very, very wrong. And then, according to Collier, on January 1, just one day after Noreen went missing, the Boyle household got a visitor.

[Collier Landry]

That night. Sherry drops in with a pork roast and sauerkraut. Cause it's New Year's. And she just comes in and starts, like, playing house, like, oh, I made you guys dinner and this and that. And I'm like, this is awful. Thinking to myself, because she's a terrible cook. And my father's like, oh, this is so good. And he's eating and he's telling her how great the food is. And they're just talking and I get up and I leave the table at some point because I just don't want to. Just didn't want to be there.

[Steve Fishman]

Later, Collier found out that his father had had many girlfriends.

[Collier Landry]

Many, many, many, many, many.

[Steve Fishman]

Still, his family had worked in its way. But Cherry was different.

[Collier Landry]

She's the one who got.

[Steve Fishman]

Don'T want to wait for that next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of Finding Mom's Killer ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page, not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. Finding Mom's killer is a production of Orbit Media creator and host Steve Fishman. That's me. Our senior producer is Drew Nellis. Our producer and production coordinator Austin Smith our story editor Emil Klein. Fact checked by Ryan Alderman Mixing in sound design by Scott Somerville. Our lawyers are at Davis Wright Tremaine from Sony Music Entertainment. Our executive producer is Jonathan Hirsch. Special thanks to Emily Racik, Steve Ackerman, Catherine St. Louis, Sammy Allison, Fisher Stevens, Rhea, Julian, Dan Bopkoff at wme. We'd like to thank Evan Krasik, Marisa Hurwitz and Ben Davis. We want to also thank Carl Hunnel at the Richland Source for the generous use of his podcast studio. And a really warm thank you to Collier Landry for sharing his story and for his production assistance. SA.