The Binge Crimes: Hunting the Bogeyman
Episode 6: “Answers” (December 8, 2025)
Host: Peter McDonnell
Primary Guests: Nicole Ernest-Pate, Paul Holes, Chief Tim Mattis, Rebecca Weicker
Podcast by: Sony Music Entertainment
Overview
The finale of "Hunting the Bogeyman” follows survivor Nicole Ernest-Pate as she seeks closure after enduring a brutal attack by Roy Waller, the NorCal Rapist. This episode focuses on Nicole’s continued struggle for truth and healing, her quest for answers from both her assailant and law enforcement, the possibility of a direct meeting with her attacker, and a powerful return to her former home. Through interviews with detectives, law enforcement, facilitators, and Nicole herself, the episode explores trauma, accountability, institutional failures, and the enduring search for hope and resolution.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Nicole’s Desire to Meet Roy Waller
- Nicole reconsidered meeting Roy Waller in prison, not to confront him just as a victim, but almost out of detective-like curiosity.
- “I don’t want to sit down with him as, like, his victim. It’s almost an intellectual curiosity, almost like I’m a detective. He’s like a black hole, and he’s still a black hole. And I don’t like that.” (Nicole, 02:20)
- Peter and Nicole recognize the challenge: Waller may still refuse to provide answers, holding on to control even from behind bars.
The DNA Link & Police Response
- Paul Holes, the acclaimed detective, recounts how Nicole’s case was finally linked to the NorCal Rapist series:
- Holes explains that his lab took the initiative to generate a DNA profile from Nicole’s case and found a match. (04:05)
- Holes notes that Rohnert Park police should have been aware in 2002 that her 1991 case was tied to a serial rapist:
- “They should have been aware. Now I can’t say for certain… but I don’t know how they wouldn’t be.” (Paul Holes, 05:22)
- Nicole was shocked:
- “Not one person bothered to tell me until 2006.” (Nicole, 05:30)
- Peter seeks response from Chief Tim Mattis (current Police Chief, not involved at the time):
- Mattis condemns the department’s questioning of Nicole’s credibility in a 1992 news article:
- “That’s nothing I’ve ever done and nothing I would ever support.” (Chief Mattis, 06:21)
- On lacking the interview transcript:
- “I can’t find the transcript… Our job is to investigate the crimes and take care of our victims, not doubt them.” (Mattis, 07:05)
- Mattis says the investigation pursued all leads, but concedes that fragmented police jurisdictions made it nearly impossible to solve the series in isolation. (08:07)
- Mattis condemns the department’s questioning of Nicole’s credibility in a 1992 news article:
Reflections on Victim Treatment and Missed Opportunities
- Peter questions whether doubts in Nicole’s credibility led to missed opportunities to stop Waller sooner.
- Mattis is deeply impressed by Nicole’s detailed police statement:
- “She realized, I can’t do anything physically right now to stop this, but I can surely use my other senses… She said, I’m gonna win in the long run on this. … We should be celebrating the fact that we’ve got an amazing witness here.” (Chief Mattis, 09:37)
Understanding the Mind of a Predator
- Paul Holes breaks down the escalation from trespassing to assault:
- “He is now… getting off of being inside this woman’s residence. … He’s probably breaking into homes during his teenage years and he’s, you know, just starts ramping up.” (Paul Holes, 11:49, 12:33)
- Holes suspects more unreported victims.
- Nicole theorizes that Waller wanted to record the attack:
- “I think he wanted to record the act. And that he was pissed that he couldn’t.” (Nicole, 14:26)
- Discussion of Waller’s wanting to leave voyeuristic messages or mementos behind, including a photo of the top of his own head (14:33).
Serial Killers Learn from Each Other
- Holes draws parallels between Waller, the Golden State Killer (Joseph DeAngelo), and even the Zodiac Killer, speculating that Waller’s methods may have been shaped by earlier, famous cases:
- “I’ve wondered if that attack inspired Golden State killer with his M.O. and how he approached his couples.” (Paul Holes, 16:53)
- “That’s what they do, they pay attention.” (Paul Holes, 17:04)
The Mysterious Phone Call and the Green Robe
- Nicole recalls, a year after her attack, she received a call in her new house; a man made eerie references to her green robe.
- “And he said, well, I see you’ve moved. And I said, who is this? And he said, where’s that little green robe?” (Nicole, 18:25)
- Initial suspicion fell on “Carl G.,” but DNA cleared him.
- Carl claims he learned about the robe by accident, comparing his phone skills to those of a psychic; Nicole says she never met him where he claims.
- “There was a way that I had of manipulating conversations on the phone, much like a tarot card reader... people would give up information they didn’t realize.” (Carl, 22:58)
- Open question: Did Roy Waller know or contact Carl? The detail remains unexplained.
- “The green robe is still a mystery... he never became a boogeyman like Roy Waller. Carl’s now married with kids, and he admitted to me he made a lot of mistakes.” (Peter, 25:43)
Will Nicole Meet Her Attacker?
- 30 states, including California, offer formalized, facilitated victim-offender meetings.
- Paul Holes warns Nicole about the psychological risks:
- “He’s going to try to push your buttons… But you may walk away and he’s pushed a button where you just like, oh, shit.” (Paul Holes, 26:49)
- “Him sitting across the table from you could just be a big turn on.” (Paul Holes, 27:16)
- Facilitator Rebecca Weicker describes victim-offender dialogues:
- “There’s probably anywhere from 4 to 9 to 12 months of preparation… I’ve seen that people come with questions… and get answers. … For the incarcerated person, they get to apologize, they get to take responsibility, they get to show up as more than their crime as a full human being.” (Rebecca Weicker, 31:05)
- “It’s rare that somebody would say, I didn’t do it. And it’s even more rare that they… engage with a survivor in some way.” (Weicker, 32:08)
- Waller continues to deny wrongdoing, telling his family he’s being railroaded and warning them to lock up at night, chillingly:
- “[He] acts like an innocent man caught in the web of a corrupt system… He’d say, be careful, it’s nighttime. Check the windows. Make sure all the doors are locked.” (Peter, 29:05)
Nicole’s Return Home: The Cleansing Ritual
- Nicole visits her former Sonoma County townhouse where the attack happened, at the invitation of current resident Melissa, who reached out after learning her home’s history. (33:21)
- Nicole experiences a strong reaction to the stairs, the location where she first sensed danger:
- “The stairs are always a big problem. Were always a big problem for me.” (Nicole, 35:58)
- Nicole, Melissa, and the team “smudge” the house, seeking to cleanse it of negative energy.
- “Spent a good amount of time where the couch was.” (Nicole, 37:44)
- “I want the stairwell to go away.” (Nicole, 38:23)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On seeking closure and truth:
“He’s like a black hole, and he’s still a black hole. And I don’t like that.”
— Nicole Ernest-Pate (02:20) -
On police failure to communicate critical information:
“Not one person bothered to tell me until 2006.”
— Nicole Ernest-Pate (05:30) -
On respecting victims:
“Our job is to be advocates for the victim, and the facts of the case will, in the end, lead where it needs to go. But to question the victim’s credibility like that... that’s nothing I’ve ever done and nothing I would ever support.”
— Chief Tim Mattis (06:21) -
On detailed recollection as remarkable strength:
“We should be celebrating that we’ve got an amazing witness here.”
— Chief Tim Mattis (10:10) -
On the psychology of predatory escalation:
“When somebody is breaking into a house and sexually assaulting, well, they likely have hundreds of burglaries in their past.”
— Paul Holes (11:49) -
On a predator’s fantasies:
“His fantasies never stop. They never go away.”
— Nicole Ernest-Pate (27:21) -
On the chilling aftermath:
“He’d say, be careful, it’s nighttime. Check the windows. Make sure all the doors are locked.”
— Peter McDonnell, reading Waller’s prison calls (29:05) -
On returning to the scene:
“The stairs are always a big problem. Were always a big problem for me.”
— Nicole Ernest-Pate (35:58)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 02:20 – Nicole discusses her complex feelings about meeting Waller.
- 04:05–05:34 – Paul Holes details how Nicole’s case was matched to the NorCal series; Nicole reacts.
- 06:21–10:10 – Chief Mattis addresses the past mishandling of Nicole’s case and victim treatment.
- 11:06–14:26 – Paul Holes analyzes Waller’s escalation and possible motivations.
- 16:53–17:30 – Discussion of how serial killers mimic and learn from predecessors.
- 18:25–25:43 – The mystery of the phone call about the green robe, interaction with Carl, and unresolved questions.
- 26:38–27:21 – Paul Holes and Nicole weigh the risks and implications of a victim-offender meeting.
- 31:05–32:08 – Rebecca Weicker explains the process and challenges of victim–offender dialogue.
- 33:21–38:23 – Nicole’s return to her former home, emotional confrontation on the stairs, and smudging ritual.
Tone & Language
The episode walks a line between investigative rigor and deep empathy. Nicole’s voice is determined, vulnerable, and reflective; Paul Holes brings clinical insight tempered with compassion. Law enforcement speaks with both humility and regret. The overall mood is somber yet hopeful—rooted in the reality of trauma, but ever seeking light and resolution.
For Listeners
Without resorting to graphic detail, this finale delivers gripping insight into the long-term impact of violent crime, institutional missteps, and the resilience of survivors. It underlines the complexities of justice and healing, while leaving the question of true closure open—anchored by Nicole’s courage as she moves toward her own answers.