The Arsonist Next Door | 4: The Bait

Summary

The Binge Crimes: The Arsonist Next Door
Episode 4: The Bait
Release Date: May 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 4, titled "The Bait," of "The Binge Crimes: The Arsonist Next Door," reporter James Hibbard delves deeper into the harrowing investigation of a series of arson attacks in Phoenix. This episode intricately weaves together the relentless pursuit by law enforcement and the personal struggles faced by those involved in unraveling the mystery behind the fires that threatened the city.

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The Exclusive Interview that Ignited the Investigation

The episode opens in January 2001 with James Hibbard, a 28-year-old reporter, achieving a significant breakthrough by securing an exclusive interview with the presumed arsonist responsible for the Phoenix fire spree. This interview, published in the Phoenix New Times, paves the way for both acclaim and controversy.

James Hibbard [01:22]: "The headline was Exclusive Interview with the Preserve's Arsonist."

However, this success breeds tension as the task force, led by Lieutenant Rob Handy, feels sidelined by Hibbard's achievement.

Special Agent Ken Williams [02:26]: "We looked into James quite a bit... we saw James as facilitating and promoting criminal activity."

Faced with pressure from authorities offering a $76,000 reward to divulge his source, Hibbard grapples with a moral dilemma: accept the reward and potentially compromise his journalistic integrity or protect his source and endure the consequences.

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Rising Tensions: Task Force vs. Journalism

Hibbard's decision to uphold his journalistic principles doesn't sit well with the task force. Special Agent Ken Williams expresses frustration over Hibbard's non-cooperation, viewing it as an obstruction to their investigation.

Special Agent Ken Williams [02:43]: "We looked into everything we could about him."

This strain extends beyond Hibbard, affecting the entire Phoenix New Times, which becomes a target of suspicion. The tension escalates when the Arizona Republic publishes an editorial accusing Hibbard of prolonging the arson investigation.

James Hibbard [05:01]: "Rival newspaper, the Arizona Republic published an editorial that said, if you meet with an egocentric firestarter, you become part of his gang."

The mounting pressure takes a psychological toll on Hibbard, highlighting the personal sacrifices intertwined with his professional pursuits.

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Strategizing the Trap

As the investigation stalls, the task force considers innovative methods to lure the arsonist. Special Agent Ken Williams recounts their brainstorming sessions aimed at setting a trap.

Special Agent Ken Williams [14:46]: "We started penciling it out on a whiteboard. How does this look? What can we do?"

The plan involves staging a fake construction site near the Lee Benson fire location, believing this area holds personal significance for the arsonist. A neighbor aids by offering an undeveloped lot for the setup. Surveillance cameras are installed to monitor the site meticulously.

James Hibbard [15:13]: "In the aftermath of James Hibbard's interview with CSP's line about that second Lee Benson fire being personal, they know exactly where to set this thing up."

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The Failed Trap and Renewed Resolve

The first attempt to catch the arsonist falters due to technical glitches, allowing the suspect to evade capture.

Special Agent Ken Williams [18:11]: "There was an IT related issue with the cameras. Something was amiss."

Devastated by the missed opportunity, Lieutenant Rob Handy channels his frustration into refining their strategy. The team perseveres, adjusting the camera angles and enhancing the bait to entice the arsonist back to the staged construction site.

James Hibbard [14:29]: "So what do you do when you can't find the needle in the haystack? Well, you could try making the needle come to you by setting a trap."

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The Breakthrough: Mark Sands’ Arrest

After weeks of intensified surveillance and strategic adjustments, the task force spots the suspect approaching the baited site. Rookie Officer Kerry Miyaso plays a pivotal role in identifying and apprehending the individual.

Kerry Miyaso [22:07]: "I see this subject walk towards the sign, and I'm like, john, you see that? And he goes, yeah."

The suspect, Mark Sands, is arrested at the scene, bringing a semblance of closure after a year of relentless pursuit.

James Hibbard [27:16]: "The man who wrote on the sign has been arrested in the shipping container. Kerry and her partner John are ecstatic."

However, the excitement is short-lived as doubts emerge about Sands' true identity as the arsonist.

Warren Jerrems [27:49]: "You've put so much time and effort and work... but you don't know for sure is it really him and is it only him?"

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Revelations and Cliffhanger

In a dramatic turn, Special Agent Ken Williams conducts an interrogation with Sands, uncovering inconsistencies in his story. Despite initial hopes, the evidence doesn't conclusively tie Sands to the arson crimes.

Mark Sands [31:35]: "I did it under the guise that I was part of that group."

As the investigation seemingly reaches a dead end, personal connections and unforeseen twists hint at deeper layers of deceit and betrayal within the community.

The episode concludes with a shocking revelation: Mark Sands is in fact a close friend of Lieutenant Rob Handy, throwing the investigation into disarray and setting the stage for the next episode.

James Hibbard [36:33]: "Mark Sands, his running buddy and hiking partner... It turned out that I was the serpent in an unsuspecting place."

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Conclusion

"The Bait" masterfully encapsulates the complexities of balancing ethical journalism with the pressures of law enforcement. Through vivid storytelling and character development, the episode not only advances the narrative of the arsonist investigation but also delves into the personal conflicts and moral quandaries faced by those striving to unveil the truth.

Notable Quotes:

• James Hibbard [05:01]: "Rival newspaper... if you meet with an egocentric firestarter, you become part of his gang."
• Special Agent Ken Williams [14:46]: "We started penciling it out on a whiteboard. How does this look? What can we do?"
• Kerry Miyaso [22:07]: "I see this subject walk towards the sign, and I'm like, john, you see that? And he goes, yeah."
• James Hibbard [36:33]: "Mark Sands... It turned out that I was the serpent in an unsuspecting place."

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Key Takeaways

• Ethical Dilemmas: The episode highlights the challenging decisions journalists must make when their professional responsibilities clash with personal morals.

• Law Enforcement Challenges: It showcases the intricate and often frustrating nature of criminal investigations, emphasizing the importance of strategic planning and adaptability.

• Personal Stakes: The intertwining of personal relationships within professional investigations adds depth to the narrative, underscoring how personal biases and connections can influence outcomes.

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Stay tuned for the next episode of "The Arsonist Next Door" to uncover the ensuing fallout from the shocking revelations surrounding Mark Sands and the domino effect it triggers within the community and the investigation team.

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For more gripping true crime stories, subscribe to The Binge and explore the full series on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[James Hibbard]

I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[James Hibbard]

To Mint Mobile today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[James Hibbard]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month.

[Lieutenant Rob Handy]

Required intro rate first 3 months only.

[James Hibbard]

Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] listen to all episodes of the Arsonist Next Door ad free right now by subscribing to the binge. Visit the binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen the binge feed your true crime obsession.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

The binge.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Novel.

[James Hibbard]

It'S January 2001 and for 28 year old reporter James Hibbard, the year has started with a bang. He managed to do what an entire task force of over 40 cops and FBI agents could not.

[Terry Kearns]

The headline was Exclusive Interview with the preserve's Arsonist.

[James Hibbard]

His front page interview for the Phoenix New Times blew up and the task force is not happy about this. They put the screws on James, pressuring him to cooperate and they offered him a $76,000 reward if he does.

[Terry Kearns]

They said, you can still be the journalist hero while being an actual hero and help us catch him. Nobody needs to know that you helped us.

[James Hibbard]

Now the young reporter has a decision to make. Take the reward money and set up another meeting with the arsonist or stick to his journalistic guns and protect his source. So what happens next?

[Terry Kearns]

I would never sell out my profession by helping cops catch somebody who called a journalist to tell their story.

[James Hibbard]

Did you give that spiel to the cops?

[Terry Kearns]

No. They would definitely not care about the importance of media in society. That was not these guys vibe.

[James Hibbard]

Lieutenant Rob Handy felt complicated about this.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

He was reporting the news, reporting his story, and didn't feel any obligation to help us identify the person and felt it was against his journalism standards.

[James Hibbard]

Was that frustrating?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Oh yeah. We were angry. We were frustrated.

[Trent Crump]

Sure.

[James Hibbard]

As a journalist I respect James's decision, but decisions have consequences. Not only would James lose out on 76 grand, the decision will impact him in ways he never expected.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We looked into James quite a bit, not as a suspect out there lighting the fires, but we saw James as facilitating and promoting criminal activity.

[James Hibbard]

James hibbert the guy who interviewed the arsonist, is about to fall under the microscope of the task force.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We looked into everything we could about him.

[James Hibbard]

Did you surveil him at any point?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Sure. We're going to try to figure out, was our relationship there. Did he actually get a tip? You know, how did this work?

[Terry Kearns]

Sometimes you think maybe you're being followed. I remember saying to friends that I thought something might be up. And then you wonder if you're just being paranoid.

[James Hibbard]

It's not just James in the crosshairs. The entire Phoenix New Times is now a target.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We did several search warrants on the New Times. We did all kinds of things.

[James Hibbard]

Rob Handy and his task force, with the help of the county attorney, take the New Times to court. Trent Crump says the team suspected the newspaper might have information that could blow the whole case wide open.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Listen, if we serve subpoenas on the New Times and try to compel them to give us information that tells you how we felt.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We surveilled every New Times jewelry truck, and we surveilled all the New Times stands in the Phoenix area. We could.

[James Hibbard]

Even readers of the paper are viewed with suspicion.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We followed a few people that picked up papers. We'd get their plate number, figure out who they were, get them ID and they'd go on our list.

[James Hibbard]

The task force is casting a wide net.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We were searching for needles in haystacks, and we were literally grasping at anything we could.

[James Hibbard]

Did it turn up anything?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

No.

[James Hibbard]

By this point, it's safe to say that James Hibbard is really feeling the heat.

[Terry Kearns]

I'll never forget a column in the Arizona Republic slamming the interview, which said, the next time this guy burns down a house, it's Hibbard's fault.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Other reporters in town, probably a little bit more law enforcement friendly, were now starting to bash him.

[James Hibbard]

Rival newspaper, the Arizona Republic published an editorial that said, if you meet with an egocentric firestarter, you become part of his gang. You not only spread his message for him, you let him walk away, zippo in hand. In the face of all this, the pressure on James begins to take a toll.

[Terry Kearns]

Every morning, I would wake up with this pit in my stomach, this dread of wondering if he burned down another house, if he hurt someone during the night. Because if that happened, look, I would still be able to defend what I did professionally, but privately, as a human being, you know, I would have felt horrible.

[James Hibbard]

This experience had a lasting impact on James. He was blamed from all sides for prolonging the arson investigation. But looking back on it, now, it's clear that that's not really what happened. Because back at the task force hq, investigators are starting to see a silver lining in James's interview. Was there anything in that article that helped you guys?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Oh, yeah. There were things in there that we felt were probably truthful.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The more information you have, the better off you probably are.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We dissected every word of that article.

[James Hibbard]

And there is a lot to dissect. The arsonist told James that he's a management professional with an advanced degree. He has a healthy income and works in downtown Phoenix. Plus, the whole piece is littered with James impressions of the guy.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

His confident demeanor suggests he's ambitious and educated.

[James Hibbard]

The fact that this man wanted to do an interview at all and the way he organized the meeting, that's also a clue. And in the opinion of Special Agent Ken Williams, a big mistake.

[Trent Crump]

He shouldn't have said anything. He should have just been quote. But he thought he was so smart that he could taunt law enforcement by manipulating the media. Thank God the guy went to the reporter. The bad guy made a mistake.

[James Hibbard]

When the task force really digs into the arsonist's quotes, they notice a key detail. This man is adamant that none of the fires were personal except for one. The second fire at Lee Benson's place. He tells James that fire was personal. That monstrosity stuck out like a sore thumb. We warned him not to come back. That's how they realize there was some.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Special affinity for the area around the Lee Benson fire. We felt that that area was very special to that person.

[James Hibbard]

After weeks of surveilling James Hibbard, the Phoenix New Times, their delivery trucks, and random people reading the paper on their lunch break, they decide to try something new.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

If we set a trap in that area, they may come there.

[James Hibbard]

A trap in what they're hoping is CSP's own backyard, where one rookie officer will soon find herself in the heart of the action.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Is this him? This is him. I know this is him. This has got to be him. Is this him?

[James Hibbard]

From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, I'm Sam Anderson. You're listening to the Arsonist next door. Episode 4 the bait.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We're trying to put together a group to do surveillance, and I was going around to different squads in the precinct asking for volunteers.

[James Hibbard]

When this arson spree first began, back when only a couple of houses had been burned, there was no task force. There was just Lieutenant Rob Handy, his small team, and anyone else who might be up for helping out in their spare time.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

I was trying to get, like, one Volunteer off every squad.

[James Hibbard]

It was the early days of the investigation, and there doesn't seem to be a single officer interested in Rob's vague request to help with some long hours of overnight surveillance.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

They wanted to know the hours. They didn't want to be flexible. They wanted to know if they were getting overtime and all these things. I'm like, look, I have no idea. I don't have any idea how this is going to work. I'm just looking for people who might be interested note takers.

[James Hibbard]

Except for one.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Oh, I'll do it. And he looked at me like, come on, really? I'm like, no, I'll do it.

[James Hibbard]

This is Carrie Miaso.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

And I'm like, sure, Kerry, you're in.

[James Hibbard]

Kerry is a rookie officer fresh out of the Phoenix Police Academy. She has no idea that in just a few months, she'll end up playing a pivotal role in the investigation. In fact, she's only recently completed her first solo patrol.

[Kerry Miyaso]

So I leave the precinct and there's a hot call. It was like somebody throwing rocks at a car or something silly like that.

[James Hibbard]

Something was going down at a local fast food restaurant and Kerry was the closest officer to the incident.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I'm like, oh my God, what am I going to do? Pick up the mic, hands shaking, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna answer this call.

[James Hibbard]

Ever felt the fear of public speaking? Now imagine you have to speak in front of an audience made up entirely of cops.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I'd be scared to even get on the phone and call somebody. You know what I mean? And so now I'm a police officer and I gotta get on a radio and let people know that something's going on. This is outside my comfort zone big time.

[James Hibbard]

That's why when Rob pops his head into her daily squad briefing with a mysterious offer of more work on a local arson investigation, Carrie, unlike her more senior colleagues, is all in.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I am a firm believer in just getting as much experience as I can.

[James Hibbard]

What happens next is the part you've heard already. This case snowballs into a massive joint task force investigation. Houses are burning down left and right. The media is in a frenzy about God fearing eco terrorists running wild. The FBI has made this one of their top priorities. And rookie officer Kerry, before long, she's doing the kind of stuff that senior officers dream of.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

She's working with the FBI. She's working out of the FBI office. She's doing all kinds of fun things.

[James Hibbard]

She's working undercover, conducting surveillance, generally having a ball.

[Kerry Miyaso]

If you want me to be honest, I do Remember, there was some jealousy that happened there. They were mad at me for being gone that long.

[James Hibbard]

It wasn't just that Carrie was missing from her usual duties. Suddenly she was working crazy shifts, six days a week with overtime pay.

[Kerry Miyaso]

That's money in the bank. And some of them didn't like that.

[James Hibbard]

Now the same senior officers who refused Rob's request at the start of the investigation are beginning to grumble. Why does this rookie get to be part of the biggest case in town?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

You didn't volunteer. I got my volunteer. You're not bumping her now that it's fun and then she's making money and having a great time. We're not doing that, you know?

[James Hibbard]

Rob remains loyal to this rookie volunteer, and his loyalty is about to pay off big time. Kerry and the rest of Rob's team are gathered in the main briefing room of the Arson task Force. FBI case lead Terry Kearns is there.

[Warren Jerrems]

He kind of was brainstorming ideas on what we could do.

[James Hibbard]

Special Agent Ken Williams is there.

[Trent Crump]

We had a really good team on this.

[James Hibbard]

Trent Crump is there, too.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We're doing all sorts of stuff, trying to figure out who's involved, who's not.

[James Hibbard]

Involved, and coordinating all of them is Lieutenant Rob Handy.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We all would sit in a room once a week and get on a whiteboard and try to refocus and re strategize.

[James Hibbard]

It's the same room where, not long before, the team was enraged to find out they'd been scooped by a cub reporter. And before that, where they discussed that local man caught masturbating in a construction site. And before that, where a police sketch was handed round that bore a striking resemblance to one of their very own lead investigators. We'll never know exactly what it felt like to be in that room, but if I had to guess, I'll bet it smelled strongly of coffee and unprocessed emotions. But through all the highs and more often lows, they gathered here and tried their best to figure things out.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We'd sit in those meetings and talk, and then all of a sudden, somebody would come up with a theory. We'd all walk out of there thinking, yeah, it's one guy, you know? And then we'd meet the next week after we worked the leads for the week, and we'd be like, yeah, it's a group.

[James Hibbard]

By the time spring 2001 rolls around, after more than 12 months of investigating and a budget that was quickly approaching a million dollars, they still aren't even sure if CSB is one guy or a group of Terrorists. They have nothing solid.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I mean, we have FBI's who are breathing down our necks. We've got council people breathing down our necks. We've got our Phoenix Police Department brass that's breathing down our necks, and everybody's telling us what they want done.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

The haystack's getting bigger and bigger, but the needle's still the same size.

[James Hibbard]

So what do you do when you can't find the needle in the haystack? Well, you could try making the needle come to you by setting a trap.

[Trent Crump]

I don't know who came up with.

[Warren Jerrems]

That concept, but whoever did was a great idea.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We started penciling it out on a whiteboard. How does this look? What can we do? All of us felt like this has got a good chance of working.

[James Hibbard]

The idea is this. Stage a fake construction site and see if they can get the arsonist to come to them.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let's rent some heavy equipment. Let's get a sign going.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We need a property. We need fencing. We need this, we need that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let's make this thing look like a construction site.

[James Hibbard]

In the aftermath of James Hibbard's interview with CSP's line about that second Lee Benson fire being personal, they know exactly where to set this thing up. Just around the corner from Lee Benson's house, one of the neighbors has offered to help. He owns an undeveloped lot just around the corner from Lee. This neighbor agrees to let the task force stage the beginnings of a construction site on his property.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

While we were doing that, the tech people at the FBI were setting up surveillance cameras in the desert for us.

[James Hibbard]

They also set up a big metal shipping container in the desert close by with monitors to watch the surveillance footage.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Live cameras that were transmitted over the cell frequency then were very new, and they weren't real advanced. So we had to have people sit in these conex boxes and watch cameras all night. Every night.

[James Hibbard]

The trap is almost ready.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

The fence was supposed to go up, like on Friday, and the surveillance was supposed to start that night.

[James Hibbard]

The very first night the cameras are installed, the sun sets over Phoenix, and the moon begins to rise over the desert. Sneaking through the cul de sac under the COVID of darkness, a shadowy figure makes their way towards the fake construction site and starts attaching notes to the fence.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Four white sheets of paper with CSP on all four sides of the fence.

[James Hibbard]

All the cops need to do now is swoop in and. And grabbed the guy. It was over 30 years ago that Clifford Olson first called me.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Secret phone calls from Canada's most notorious serial killer.

[James Hibbard]

I knew I was killing the children.

[Mark Sands]

But I couldn't stop myself.

[James Hibbard]

Now it's time to to unearth the tapes because I believe there are still.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Answers to be found. I'm arlene Bynum from CBC's Uncover calls from a Killer.

[James Hibbard]

Available now. Want more true crime? Subscribe to the binge to get all episodes of the Arsonist Next Door ad free today and get instant access to over 50 other jaw dropping true crime stories. Plus subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series on the first of every month. Search for the binge channel on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com to subscribe today. When Rob wakes up the next morning, he learns that the arsonist took the bait. CSB came to the fake construction site and left their signature threats. The plan worked except for one minor detail.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

There was an IT related issue with the cameras. Something was amiss.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The camera is put up by the FBI surveillance team, but they didn't know where to point it, thinking this isn't going to happen overnight. The cameras that were facing out into the mountain preserve and it wasn't aiming.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

At our sight, we missed him. We missed our opportunity.

[James Hibbard]

With the cameras pointing uselessly into the desert, CSP slipped away into the darkness.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Here we come up with a perfect plan, put it all in motion and we fumbled it.

[James Hibbard]

Wow. How did that feel?

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Oh, it was devastating. It's like fumbling on the goal line, ready to score the winning touchdown and the other team picks it up and runs the other way and wins. That's really what it felt like. It was horrible. I was irate. Terry was upset.

[Warren Jerrems]

Who is this guy? You felt like you were one upped all the time.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Trent was upset.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Now if he hits again and we miss that opportunity, that's a big deal.

[James Hibbard]

But out of everyone on the task force, Rob is the most upset.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

That was probably the one time where I melted down a little bit. We've worked so hard to get to this point. We looked at so many things to get to this point and now we missed our one opportunity we're gonna get. We were getting sloppy. We lost our focus on details. I brought everybody in a room and chewed everybody out and was ticked.

[James Hibbard]

After all those false leads, countless dead ends, and who knows how many sleepless nights, Rob feels like things are really starting to fall apart.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We were missing important things. In hindsight, that was my fault. At the time, I didn't realize that I was mad at everybody else. I just said, how many more ways can we fuck this thing up?

[Ryan Reynolds]

And I said, hey, it's only 9:30, Rob.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

I said, what? And he said, there's infinite ways we can F this thing up. And then everybody laughed and the whole temperature came down.

[James Hibbard]

The team takes a couple days to recover, and then they regroup. They're hopeful that with a few adjustments, they can lure the arsonist back to the construction site again. So the cameras stay up, and now they're pointing in the direction of the fake construction site.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Several weeks went by. No activity on the cameras.

[James Hibbard]

After monitoring the cameras for weeks at considerable expense, Rob and his team are beginning to lose hope. They're just about ready to take the whole operation down and try something else. But before they move on, they've got one last idea up their sleeve.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

We decided to come up with a sign to try to entice him again.

[James Hibbard]

The sign with a big, colorful drawing of a gaudy mansion. Just to make it super clear exactly what type of house would be going up on this property.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

This big, massive mansion that was going to take up the whole lot.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let's put the square footage on it, let's put a picture on there, and let's put it up.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Coming soon kind of a thing.

[James Hibbard]

And right below the mockup of the house, they put a message addressed specifically to the arsonist. It says, we promise to live here in harmony with all the wildlife, nature, plants, and you. They mount the sign on the fence right in view of the camera.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I could see the front of the fence, and I could see the sign on the fence.

[James Hibbard]

It's late at night, and rookie police officer Kerry Miyaso is crouched over a tiny desk inside a repurposed shipping container in the desert.

[Kerry Miyaso]

And you're just, like, looking at a screen. There's nothing going on.

[James Hibbard]

It's April 20, 2001, and it's not Carrie's first shift in the shipping container. She's actually been doing this for weeks.

[Kerry Miyaso]

You're like, how long are we gonna be doing this? Nothing's happening. I mean, literally, the wind's blowing. You can see that.

[James Hibbard]

Outside, the desert is quiet, but inside, she's sharing the cramped space with another officer, John. John is a former Marine turned cop, more senior than Kerry, who just finished her probation. Hour after hour, Kerry and John stare at the screen showing the fake construction site with its fancy new sign.

[Kerry Miyaso]

All of a sudden, I see this subject walk towards the sign, and I'm like, john, you see that? And he goes, yeah.

[James Hibbard]

Clary squints at the grainy monitor as the shape of a person comes into view.

[Kerry Miyaso]

My heart's starting to race now because I'm like, is this him? This is him. I know this is him. This has got to be him. This is him. Is this him? I could see the hand go up. I'm like, john, is he writing on the sign? No, he's just looking at it. I'm like, are you sure? I'm like, I think he's writing on the sign. John's. No, he's not. Right? I'm like, I think he is. So we're having this argument about what's going on. I'm like, anyway, it's the first person at this sign since we've been sitting here.

[James Hibbard]

Carrie knows she cannot miss this opportunity. Everything the task force has been doing for over a year has all built up to this one, one single moment. This is it. John leaps into action, dialing headquarters to let them know what's happening. Meanwhile, hands shaking, Carrie reaches for the police radio. Her old nemesis.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I don't know what I'm saying. I have no idea what's coming out of my mouth. My brain is freezing. I can't figure out where I'm at now. I'm just so excited. Oh, we need the air unit. We need it down here now. We got somebody over here. We might be the arsonist. You know, I'm just, just bumbling it. Yeah. You know what's funny is I think I still have a recording of that.

[James Hibbard]

No.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Yeah. 6:39 X ray.

[James Hibbard]

This is the actual recording of Kerry calling in the report, man. We need to see if we can get an area up in a mountain preserve.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Dispatchers, you know, where are you at right now?

[James Hibbard]

6:39 extra. Do you have a hundred block?

[Kerry Miyaso]

And I'm like, I, I, I know it's about, I'm at the, you know, just south. Just go south on 32nd Street.

[James Hibbard]

End of 32nd Street.

[Kerry Miyaso]

He's leaving the sign now. He went this way. I'm stupidly giving descriptions of colors of clothes.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

He had black gloves on, short brown hair.

[James Hibbard]

He's a white male.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I told you it was black and white. I can't see colors. And I'm saying I think he's got pink shorts on. I'm like, how do I know he's got pink shorts on? I don't know.

[James Hibbard]

The call goes out from dispatch for the nearest unit to respond immediately. But the nearest unit was kind of in the middle of something.

[Kerry Miyaso]

If I remember correctly, they had just stopped at Jack in the Box or something like that.

[James Hibbard]

They're in the drive through of a.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Fast food restaurant and they hauled ass. Hamburgers were flying across the dashboard, Cokes were all over the place.

[James Hibbard]

By the time these guys reach the mountain preserve, not only are they probably covered in ketchup and Coke, the suspect has fled the scene. But the officers know these trails like the back of their hand. So they charge off into the darkness to cut him off. Minutes later, Kerry's on the dreaded radio again.

[Mark Sands]

Okay, copy Short Bound.

[Kerry Miyaso]

I remember as I'm on with the dispatcher trying to tell her where we need the air unit. They cleared over on their other radio and said, we've got him in custody, ma' am. We got him in custody. Foreign.

[Lieutenant Rob Handy]

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[Sam Anderson]

Go to your happy price.

[Kerry Miyaso]

Priceline.

[Sam Anderson]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.

[James Hibbard]

The man who wrote on the sign has been arrested in the shipping container. Kerry and her partner John are ecstatic.

[Kerry Miyaso]

It felt really good.

[James Hibbard]

After a full year of mind numbing surveillance, fruitless dead ends, failed operations and constant media pressure, now finally they have someone in handcuffs.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

I got called in the middle of the night. We all went and met out there and we just set up a command post and started working it from there.

[James Hibbard]

FBI case lead Terry Kearns gets a call too.

[Warren Jerrems]

You've put so much time and effort and work and this person who you feel has been outsmarting you, you finally were able to catch them in the act.

[James Hibbard]

There's an undeniable excitement in the air.

[Warren Jerrems]

But a kind of a conservative excitement because you don't know for sure is it really him and is it only him?

[James Hibbard]

A few minutes later, FBI Special agent Ken William pulls up to the scene.

[Trent Crump]

I see the decoy sign that we had up there to sign depicting the scouty house. I see that there's some graffiti written on it.

[James Hibbard]

The suspect has left a message for the builders of this fake construction site in response to their pledge to live in harmony with the plants and animals of the desert. He wrote two words. Okay, thanks, followed by that familiar acronym, csp. And there in the middle of the street is their perp.

[Trent Crump]

I see the subject standing in the street with handcuffs on him in the back with the patrol officer, and I remember him standing there in his underwear.

[James Hibbard]

The suspect is wearing nothing but a light T shirt and boxer shorts. In his hands is a red marker.

[Trent Crump]

This is a grown man. He's in his 40s. Put him in the back of the patrol car. And I followed patrol car down to headquarters.

[James Hibbard]

When Ken arrives at the station, the suspect is waiting for him in the interrogation room. Ken knows he has to work quickly because even though this guy was caught at the scene of the crime, he was not caught committing arson. Ken has a limited window to get this guy talking or he'll be set free.

[Trent Crump]

You know, if they spill it up, then we got all the time in the world to talk to them.

[James Hibbard]

According to Ken, there are three types of jail interviews.

[Trent Crump]

There's the tough guy, somebody that's gonna lawyer right up. Guy doesn't want to talk to the cops.

[James Hibbard]

The remorseful type.

[Trent Crump]

They're devastated. They know the gig's up, they've been caught, they're gonna cough it all up.

[James Hibbard]

And then there's a third type.

[Trent Crump]

They waive their rights. They're gonna talk to you, but they're not really wanting to talk to you. They want to find out what you know about them. That's the challenging one. That is a guy that's basically saying, okay, bring it on. You know, that's what he was. It's like, okay, this guy wants to play.

[James Hibbard]

At 6:33 in the morning on the 20th of April, 2001, the interview begins.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Have a seat over there.

[James Hibbard]

I'll pull the other door.

[Mark Sands]

What I'm gonna start out with is.

[James Hibbard]

In the room is Special Agent Ken Williams and another investigator from the Phoenix.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

PD And I'm Ken Williams with the.

[Mark Sands]

FBI here in Phoenix.

[James Hibbard]

What you're hearing is a police recording. I got a hold of Ken's actual interview with the suspect. The suspect is shivering, wearing nothing but a T shirt. So they bring him a space blanket.

[Mark Sands]

You want your blanket? Yes. A volume. And we wait one moment.

[James Hibbard]

The man has brown hair beginning to gray. He wraps the silver blanket around his shoulders. You can hear it rustling in the tape.

[Mark Sands]

Are you willing to discuss what you hear about the criminal damage without an attorney. Yep. Yeah.

[James Hibbard]

They start with a simple question. What the hell happens tonight?

[Mark Sands]

Well, the hell happened?

[James Hibbard]

I mean, why?

[Mark Sands]

What's the rationale behind this? Did a real stupid thing, guys.

[James Hibbard]

He says, I did a real stupid thing, guys. But he can explain.

[Mark Sands]

I read the story.

[James Hibbard]

He read an article in the New Times about the guy whose house burned down and how he wanted to rebuild.

[Mark Sands]

And I got pissed off.

[James Hibbard]

Pissed off not at the guy wanting to rebuild. Pissed off at the guy burning those houses down.

[Mark Sands]

This guy has a right to build his house there. I just wanted to leave a message saying, hey, it's okay to build your house here.

[James Hibbard]

So why sign it csp?

[Mark Sands]

I did it under the guise that I was part of that group. And I guess I thought it would have more credibility. Like the group is backing off if I use their initials.

[James Hibbard]

That's his story, and he sticks to it.

[Mark Sands]

I like the desert. I respect private property, too. I live on the desert.

[James Hibbard]

He's done something stupid, he admits. Impulsive. Criminal even. But he's not the arsonist. And tonight's message was just an isolated incident.

[Mark Sands]

I had to leave a message calling off the dog. Are you part of the dogs? No, sir.

[James Hibbard]

They start asking the man about his life. Do you have a family? What do you do for work?

[Mark Sands]

I became a family man. I had a good career, but I was working hard. I was working six days a week.

[James Hibbard]

They learn that he lives just a couple of streets away from Lee Benson. His backyard connects directly into the preserve. They ask the suspect if he's been following the fires.

[Mark Sands]

Sure. People ask me about it. Because you live so close. I live close.

[James Hibbard]

The man tells him he's an avid hiker and jogger. A bit of a night owl. He's self employed in marketing and pr. He's a soccer referee. He's married with a daughter. And? And they have quite a few pets.

[Mark Sands]

Two dogs, two cats, 13 hamsters.

[James Hibbard]

He's on the board of the local homeowners association. He doesn't exactly fit the mold of an eco terrorist. The investigators ask him how he feels about the environment. He says he thinks we should all recycle. But what about the Earth Liberation Front? Ever heard of them?

[Mark Sands]

Where have you read about Elsa? I think there was a story in the New Times when they were writing about the Arthur Group.

[James Hibbard]

The suspect tells them he might have had a look on their website briefly after reading about them in the New Times. Or perhaps it was an episode of 60 Minutes. He recalls that their spokesperson looked like a tree hugger. A granola eater.

[Mark Sands]

You would not put yourself in that area. I care about the environment.

[James Hibbard]

They asked the man about his educational background. The suspect studied journalism.

[Mark Sands]

You went to journalism school? Long time ago. Have you done any journalism work? Any reporting work? Right out of college, I was a radio newsman.

[James Hibbard]

Interesting. Ken suggests, because whoever set these fires would have to be pretty media savvy.

[Mark Sands]

Are you calling me a suspect? Normal fires. Well, I'm telling you that we're going to investigate to try to suspect. Normal fire.

[James Hibbard]

The conversation goes around in circles.

[Mark Sands]

Is it possible that you are a.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Member of the group and maybe this.

[Mark Sands]

Is your signal to us that, you know, you're done doing things? I'm not done doing anything except doing stupid pranks like this.

[Trent Crump]

Okay, well, I just asked him.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

I'm trying to understand, like you said yourself, you don't know went through your stupid.

[James Hibbard]

They go from the fires to the man's background to the fires again.

[Trent Crump]

He was calm. He was very calm and collected.

[James Hibbard]

Ken also tells me he was struck by the changes in the suspect's demeanor.

[Trent Crump]

He went from a very effeminate person when we first got him building up to like, he's a tough guy, you know, almost like very indignant to going back to almost childlike without really answering any questions. We could not pin him down. It was a very strange interview.

[James Hibbard]

Ken gets the impression that his suspect is trying to suss out what the task force knows.

[Trent Crump]

He wanted to talk, but he wasn't talking. He was fishing.

[James Hibbard]

Ken holds back the details.

[Trent Crump]

We don't want to run home and starting to destroy evidence and stuff like that.

[James Hibbard]

By this time, it's after 9:30 in the morning. Ken is confident he's got all he can from the interview, at least for now.

[Trent Crump]

He wasn't going to give us anything.

[James Hibbard]

The interview is over. They send the man back to a holding cell later that day, they'll let him go. The mood in the police station is celebratory. They've got a suspect, and even though he'll walk free, they're going to watch him like a hawk. But not everyone is celebrating. Warren Jerrems, the local guy who loves jogging in the preserves, is about to receive a phone call that. That will change his life forever.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

My wife Mia called me and told me that Mark had been arrested as the arsonist.

[James Hibbard]

Mark Sands, his running buddy and hiking partner.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

He was what I would call my best friend.

[James Hibbard]

The guy he sat next to at church while they poured over a copy of the Phoenix New Times interview with the arsonist. I said to her, I said, no.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

It can't be. I didn't believe it. I just didn't believe that it could be Mark.

[James Hibbard]

Next time on the Arsonist Next Door. Mark Sands has been hiding some dark secrets and his best friend Warren is pulled into a spiral of lies. Mark thought that I was an angel.

[Special Agent Ken Williams]

Helping him, but it turned out that I was the serpent in an unsuspecting place.

[James Hibbard]

Don't want to wait for that next episode. You don't have to unlock all episodes of the Arsonist Next Door ad free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Search for the binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on apple. Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the 1st of every month. Check out the Binge Channel page on apple podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. The Arsonist Next Door is an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Novel. This series was written and reported by me, Sam Anderson. It was produced and reported by Leona Hamid. Our assistant producer is Matt Madeline Parr. Research by Zayana Youssef. Additional production from Tom Wright and G. Stiles. Our editor is Dave Anderson. Additional story editing from Max o' Brien. From Novel, our executive producers are Max o' Brien and Craig Strachan. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Our original theme song was composed and performed by Nicholas Alexander. Production management from Sheree Huston, Joe Savage, Sarah Tobin and Charlotte Wolf. Fact checking by Danya Soleiman Story development by Nell Gray Andrews. Novel's director of development is Selena Mehta and Willard Foxton is Novel's Creative Director of development. Special thanks to Jen Fifield, Libby Goff, Bob Koff Khan, Xander Adams, Anthony Wallace, Steve Ackerman, Carolyn Shurlevin and the team at Reviewed and cleared Mario Cacciatolo, Isaac Fisher, Kevin Lee Karas, Jess Swinburne, Sonny Marr, Karly Frankel and the team at wme.

[Sam Anderson]

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