The Binge Crimes: The Crimes of Margo Freshwater

Episode 2: "Bad Lead"

Release Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Cooper Mall
Production: Sony Music Entertainment

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, host Cooper Mall secures the first-ever interview with the elusive Margo Freshwater (now living under the name Tanya McCarter) as she recounts her experience evading law enforcement for three decades. The episode traces Margo's escape from prison, her life undercover, and the dogged efforts of investigators who pursued her trail. "Bad Lead" explores themes of identity, justice, and the unpredictable paths of fugitives and those determined to catch them.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The First Interview with Margo Freshwater

• Setting the Stage: Cooper Mall describes the anticipation and preparation for interviewing Tanya McCarter (Margo Freshwater), a woman whose legend has preceded her through decades of silence.

  "In T minus five minutes, I will be sitting down with Tanya McCarter, aka Margo Freshwater, for her first ever interview. And I truly cannot believe this." (01:29)

• Margo’s Motivation to Speak:
  Cooper asks why Margo is finally telling her story:

  Cooper Mall: "One of the big questions here at the beginning is you've never sat down and told your story on the record before. Why now?"
  Tanya McCarter (Margot Freshwater): "Now feels like the right time to do it, and I wanted to get my story out there the way it really went down." (04:12)

• Life Under a New Identity:
  Margo elaborates on her reasons for creating a new identity—and the sacrifices it entailed:

  "When I created my new identity and had a new life, I had to put the life that I had known out of sight, out of mind." (04:30)

2. Escape and the Art of Disappearing

• Cutting All Ties:
  Margo details her determination to protect her family by never contacting them:

  "I knew I could never contact my family." (05:02)
  "If they lied, then they would be in trouble for abating and abetting, or they would have to make the decision to turn me in. And so I could not, in good conscience, put him in that situation." (05:23)

• Flight from Tennessee:
  The episode recounts the tense escape alongside Faye Copeland, and the challenges of being fugitives on the run—traveling with truckers, resting in motels, and arriving in Baltimore.

  "It was just minute by minute." (06:32)
  "The second truck driver... stopped at a motel, and he said, why don't you two get out, get cleaned up, and I'll come back in the morning and pick you guys up." (07:19)

• The Necessity for New Connections:
  To survive, Margo gets a job selling encyclopedias door-to-door, constantly wary of recognition:

  "I'd go to the post office. Because they'd have wanted posters up, but I never saw anything for me." (09:03)

3. Close Calls and New Risks

• Co-conspirator Dynamics:
  Margo expresses growing anxiety about Faye Copeland’s recklessness — risking exposure by partying, while Margo focuses on laying low:

  "Faye was doing stuff that I knew was going to get us caught. So she was going out to bars, and I knew she was going to get caught." (10:41)

• A Gritty Escape from Baltimore:
  Faye's brother assists Margo but at a dark personal cost—he agrees to buy her a train ticket to Ohio in exchange for sex:

  "Now this part I'm ashamed of. But it bought me my freedom. He told me he would get me a train ticket to Ohio, but I had to allow him to have his way with me. So he bought me a train ticket." (13:36)

4. The Lawman’s Pursuit (Richard Knudsen)

• FBI Agent Knudsen Takes the Case:
  The 1970s investigation is explained by retired FBI agent Richard Knudsen, highlighting the "old-school" methods of tracking fugitives—reliance on informants, paper records, and laborious manual surveillance.

  "Nobody in Ohio cooperated with us. They hadn't seen her, they didn't know, et cetera, et cetera." (17:14)

• Family Silence & Stonewalling:
  Knudsen recognizes that Margo’s family, despite strained relationships, refused to help authorities—born as much from a sense of injustice as from loyalty.

  "The family was convinced that this had been a tremendous miscarriage of justice for their sister, her daughter. And if she could escape, as far as they're concerned, that was great." (22:29)
  "They felt like I was harassing them, or the FBI was. We weren't. But that was the only place we could turn." (22:56)

• Declaration of Death & Closure:
  In 1984, Margo is declared legally dead to settle a family will, and the FBI is forced to close the case.

  "In 1984, the family buried Margot. On paper anyway. They had her legally declared dead. The investigation died quietly." (23:13)
  "Reluctantly, I closed the case." (23:27)

5. The Case Reopens (Greg Costas & America's Most Wanted)

• Revival in the 1990s:
  Ohio agent Greg Costas receives the dormant case in 1993, originally as a routine assignment over a decade after the trail went cold.

  "When I first started this job. I wanted to get my paycheck back every two weeks. But what made me a dogged investigator? I don't know. I guess that's just how I'm wired." (24:41)

• The Role of Media:
  The inclusion of Margot’s story on "America’s Most Wanted" spurs fresh energy into the search.

  "America's Most Wanted wanted to profile Margot Freshwater. But while the show was in production, TBI reached out to BCI because Margot was originally from Columbus." (24:57)

• The Reality of Long-Term Fugitives:
  Costas reflects on the surreal nature of pursuing a fugitive whose story reads like "a made-for-TV movie," expressing both incredulity and determination.

  "Just the whole story... it was like a made-for-TV movie. I was like, this is fucked up." (27:02)

6. Investigative Tactics and Determination

• Tracking Family Connections:
  Costas details the reinvestigation—from phone taps and mail monitoring to literal trash searches—to uncover any sign of contact from Margo:

  "We also put on Leona's phone and Tim White's phone what's called a pen register." (34:11)
  "We actually went through their garbage." (34:56)

• Undercover Inspiration:
  Thinking creatively, Costas toys with the idea of posing as Margo’s son—whom she gave up for adoption—to make contact with her family under false pretenses.

  "It just kind of hit me. Why couldn't I pose as the boy that she gave up for adoption?" (35:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "When you hear her on the phone, she just sounds like your mom...I want to treat her like anybody."
  — Cooper Mall (02:53)

• "She almost seemed shy. It all took me by surprise. When I hit record, it was tough to tell who was more on edge."
  — Cooper Mall (04:03)

• "She walked in on me and she said, 'what are you doing?'...And I said, 'Oh, well, I met someone and we're going to California.'"
  — Tanya McCarter (Margot Freshwater) (12:26)

• "My hair was pulled up and he had me put on a hat and a trench coat...Another escape pulled off cleanly, hidden in plain sight."
  — Tanya McCarter (Margot Freshwater) & Cooper Mall (13:06)

• "If she could escape, as far as they're concerned, that was great. They would have done whatever they could to hide and shelter her...if she could beat the system, good for her."
  — Richard Knudsen (22:29)

• "When I started looking at it, we were able to determine that she had three relatives that we were able to identify..."
  — Greg Costas (31:20)

• "We actually went through their garbage."
  — Greg Costas (34:56)

• "Why couldn't I pose as the boy that she gave up for adoption?"
  — Greg Costas (35:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• First interview with Margo / Motivation to talk: 01:29–04:20
• Escape and Baltimore survival: 06:32–09:08
• Faye’s recklessness & Margo’s Baltimore exit: 10:41–13:36
• FBI’s pursuit (Knudsen): 15:01–23:27
• Legal death & closure of case: 23:13–23:33
• Case revival, Costas receives file: 24:41–26:45
• Investigative tactics (surveillance, phone/mail monitoring): 31:20–34:56
• Undercover proposal (pose as son): 35:41

Tone and Style

• The episode maintains a reflective, conversational tone interspersed with tension and moments of dark humor, especially from Costas and Cooper.
• Margo’s own voice is marked by a mix of regret, resolve, and candor—her vulnerability sharply contrasting the legend of a hardened criminal.
• The law enforcement POV alternates between dogged professionalism (Knudsen) and brash energy (Costas).

Summary

"Bad Lead" peels back the mythos of Margo Freshwater, revealing the precarious reality of life as a fugitive. The narrative is shaped by both those running from justice and those refusing to give up the chase—a tangled story where loyalty, shame, regret, and resolve all collide. The episode vividly blends thriller-like investigation with the emotional toll on all involved, leaving the listener eager for what’s next as Margo’s secrets begin to unravel.