The Birth Keepers | The Guardian Investigates

Episode 6: “Death plan”

Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Sirin Kale & Lucy Osborne

Episode Overview

This gripping final installment of The Birth Keepers investigates the aftermath and tragic consequences tied to the radical free birth movement led by social media influencers Emily Saldea and Yolanda Norris Clark. Hosts Sirin Kale and Lucy Osborne delve into how these influencers amassed a global following and wealth while advocating for unassisted childbirth—resulting in numerous maternal and infant harms. Through survivor testimonies, insider recordings, and expert commentary, the episode interrogates the concept of "radical responsibility," the cult-like tactics of Free Birth Society (FBS), and the refusal of its founders to accept accountability, even after personal tragedy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rebranding and Legal Evasion

Background: After negative feedback and public scrutiny, including the expulsion of students, Emily and Yolanda rebranded their "midwifery" school as the "Mentor Institute."
- [01:19] Emily Saldea: “I think YO and I overplayed our hand calling this a midwifery school.”
- The curriculum did not change; the rebranding was mainly to sidestep legal restrictions on the term "midwifery."

2. Online Backlash and “Cancel Culture” Defense

The Reddit community ‘Free Birth Society Scam’ emerged, alleging cult-like practices and sharing stories of harm.
Emily & Yolanda recorded a defensive podcast—Fruits of Cancel Culture and Mob Mentality—actively dismissing critics as jealous, bitter women.
- [04:03] Yolanda: “They made up a bunch of stories and told a bunch of lies … ultimately it was and is nothing really, just jealousy. … Projection, essentially.”
- [04:55] “The Reddit backlash [is] a public smear campaign…witch hunt…bandwagon of slander and vilification.”

3. Radical Responsibility vs. Real-World Consequences

Survivors like Adair, whose daughter was stillborn after following FBS teachings, express anger at the lack of responsibility shown by FBS leaders.
- [07:56] Adair: “Where does their personal radical responsibility come in, in recognizing the impact of their work … I feel pretty angry hearing them essentially say that they don’t hold any responsibility to any of us.”
Emily and Yolanda’s response repeatedly deflects blame, arguing their words are only “information” and choices are each mother's responsibility.

4. Death Philosophy and the “Death Plan”

FBS teachings openly address the possibility of newborn death, normalizing stillbirths and promoting the idea that death is not necessarily a wrong outcome.
- [14:18] Yolanda: “There’s an overall assumption that the outcome was wrong, that death is the wrong outcome… I don’t think that can really ever be true.”
Emily instructs followers not to rush to call emergency services if the baby is born dead, and, controversially, even discusses misleading authorities:
- [16:44] Emily Saldea: “I would certainly lie if my baby was born alive and then died … That baby was born dead.”
- Experts featured warn that this advice conflicts with legal responsibilities and children's rights to medical care.

5. Teaching Dangerous Birth Practices

Emily is seen in an FBS podcast video observing her limp, pale newborn for over four minutes post-delivery, without seeking medical aid.
- [21:03] Lucy Osborne: “In the video, Emily did not call 911 or resuscitate him.”
- Medical experts compared this to “watching a parent sit by the pool while their child is quietly drowning and they do nothing.” (Michelle Telfer, Yale)
- Emily frames her decision as a triumph of trust:
  - [22:10] Emily Saldea: “…I just breathed instead and smiled and kissed his face, knowing that he would claim his life.”

6. Birth Trauma Debriefs—A Business with No Qualifications

FBS offers “birth trauma debriefs,” charging grieving mothers up to $800/hour for advice, though there’s no evidence of qualifications in grief or trauma counselling.
Camille Voitau, who lost her son Marlo after free birthing, describes her initial reverence for Yolanda, followed by growing skepticism and confrontation.
- [24:03] Camille: “I would drink from her words … I would just take it as true.”

7. Confrontation: Camille vs. Yolanda

In a charged follow-up debrief (now at $800/hr), Camille, now pregnant again, questions Yolanda directly about her influence.
- [26:35] Camille: “…when I felt maybe the need to seek help, I didn’t. Because I had your voices in my head telling me everything was going to be okay, that it was a variation of normal.”
- Yolanda again deflects, stating:
  - [27:16] “If you took my voice on as the voice of authority … that is not my responsibility. … People are responsible for their own decisions.”
  - [28:50] “No, I don’t have any personal responsibility for what happened to you, Camille. And I am so sorry about your son.”

8. Emily’s Personal Tragedy and FBS’s Continued Expansion

Emily’s public announcement: after rejecting prenatal care and interventions, she experienced a stillbirth.
- [30:36] Emily Saldea announces stillbirth: “Our son, our baby was not born alive.”
Despite three infant/neonatal deaths among just 15 MMI participants, FBS continued to expand, launching new courses and an “uncancellable” workshop.
- [32:57] Emily: “It’s extremely difficult to … make money in radical ways, to withstand cancel culture, public scrutiny…”

9. Expert and Survivor Final Thoughts

Experts reiterate that withholding medical help from endangered newborns is irresponsible and potentially illegal.
Survivors reflect on moving forward, bearing lifelong grief, and hoping for accountability and awareness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Blame-Shifting:
- [07:56] Adair: “I feel pretty angry hearing them essentially say that they don’t hold any responsibility to any of us in any of this. Like, what was the point of the work you were doing if not to influence people?”
On Fatalism:
- [14:18] Yolanda: “…the outcome was wrong, that death is the wrong outcome. And I don’t think that can really ever be true.”
On Deceit:
- [16:44] Emily: “I would certainly lie if my baby was born alive and then died. … That baby was born dead.”
On Peer Influence:
- [24:03] Camille Voitau: “I would just take it as true.”
- [26:35] Camille: “…I didn’t [seek help] because I had your voices in my head telling me everything was going to be okay…”
On Accountability:
- [28:50] Yolanda: “No, I don’t have any personal responsibility for what happened to you, Camille.”
On Loss:
- [10:22] Adair: “My child is dead. Because of information that I received from Emily and Yolanda, I made life-changing decisions based on that information that I paid for.”
- [24:05] Camille: “Okay, Drink the Kool Aid. I was drinking it.”
- [40:24] Adair: “There’s not a single day of my life where I don’t think about what it would be like if she was here… This is going to be a scar that’s with me forever.”
On Fatalistic Teaching:
- [19:41] Emily: “Some babies can take… five minutes, even longer… I’ve heard of babies transitioning… for even 10, 15 minutes.”
- [22:10] Emily: “I… kissed his face, knowing that he would claim his life.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

Rebranding of MMI: [01:19] – [02:27]
Reddit & Podcast Response: [03:45] – [05:36]
Mother Adair’s Story & FBS’s Radical Responsibility: [05:57] – [10:43]
Birth Trauma Debriefs & Camille’s Story: [11:11] – [14:18]
FBS on Death & “Death Plan”: [14:43] – [16:52]
Legal/Ethical Issues: [17:09] – [18:30]
Dangerous Birth Practices Example (Emily's Home Birth Video): [20:14] – [22:52]
Camille Challenges Yolanda on Accountability: [24:08] – [28:50]
Emily’s Stillbirth Announcement & Aftermath: [29:12] – [31:27]
FBS Expansion, “Uncancellable” Workshop: [32:36] – [33:29]
Survivor Updates/Reflections: [35:41] – [40:24]

Final Thoughts

This episode exposes the profound harm that can result when anti-establishment health messaging and influencer culture intersect unchecked. While FBS continues to market “radical responsibility” as empowerment, the core narrative is one of disavowed responsibility—leaving bereaved mothers and families to bear the consequences alone. Even after the founders’ own tragedies, FBS doubles down rather than reflecting, raising urgent questions about accountability, informed consent, and the commercialization of maternal health misinformation.

For anyone affected by baby loss, support resources are available—please seek help if needed.

The Birth Keepers | The Guardian Investigates

Episode 6: “Death plan”

Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Sirin Kale & Lucy Osborne

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rebranding and Legal Evasion

Background: After negative feedback and public scrutiny, including the expulsion of students, Emily and Yolanda rebranded their "midwifery" school as the "Mentor Institute."
- [01:19] Emily Saldea: “I think YO and I overplayed our hand calling this a midwifery school.”
- The curriculum did not change; the rebranding was mainly to sidestep legal restrictions on the term "midwifery."

2. Online Backlash and “Cancel Culture” Defense

The Reddit community ‘Free Birth Society Scam’ emerged, alleging cult-like practices and sharing stories of harm.
Emily & Yolanda recorded a defensive podcast—Fruits of Cancel Culture and Mob Mentality—actively dismissing critics as jealous, bitter women.
- [04:03] Yolanda: “They made up a bunch of stories and told a bunch of lies … ultimately it was and is nothing really, just jealousy. … Projection, essentially.”
- [04:55] “The Reddit backlash [is] a public smear campaign…witch hunt…bandwagon of slander and vilification.”

3. Radical Responsibility vs. Real-World Consequences

Survivors like Adair, whose daughter was stillborn after following FBS teachings, express anger at the lack of responsibility shown by FBS leaders.
- [07:56] Adair: “Where does their personal radical responsibility come in, in recognizing the impact of their work … I feel pretty angry hearing them essentially say that they don’t hold any responsibility to any of us.”
Emily and Yolanda’s response repeatedly deflects blame, arguing their words are only “information” and choices are each mother's responsibility.

4. Death Philosophy and the “Death Plan”

FBS teachings openly address the possibility of newborn death, normalizing stillbirths and promoting the idea that death is not necessarily a wrong outcome.
- [14:18] Yolanda: “There’s an overall assumption that the outcome was wrong, that death is the wrong outcome… I don’t think that can really ever be true.”
Emily instructs followers not to rush to call emergency services if the baby is born dead, and, controversially, even discusses misleading authorities:
- [16:44] Emily Saldea: “I would certainly lie if my baby was born alive and then died … That baby was born dead.”
- Experts featured warn that this advice conflicts with legal responsibilities and children's rights to medical care.

5. Teaching Dangerous Birth Practices

Emily is seen in an FBS podcast video observing her limp, pale newborn for over four minutes post-delivery, without seeking medical aid.
- [21:03] Lucy Osborne: “In the video, Emily did not call 911 or resuscitate him.”
- Medical experts compared this to “watching a parent sit by the pool while their child is quietly drowning and they do nothing.” (Michelle Telfer, Yale)
- Emily frames her decision as a triumph of trust:
  - [22:10] Emily Saldea: “…I just breathed instead and smiled and kissed his face, knowing that he would claim his life.”

6. Birth Trauma Debriefs—A Business with No Qualifications

FBS offers “birth trauma debriefs,” charging grieving mothers up to $800/hour for advice, though there’s no evidence of qualifications in grief or trauma counselling.
Camille Voitau, who lost her son Marlo after free birthing, describes her initial reverence for Yolanda, followed by growing skepticism and confrontation.
- [24:03] Camille: “I would drink from her words … I would just take it as true.”

7. Confrontation: Camille vs. Yolanda

In a charged follow-up debrief (now at $800/hr), Camille, now pregnant again, questions Yolanda directly about her influence.
- [26:35] Camille: “…when I felt maybe the need to seek help, I didn’t. Because I had your voices in my head telling me everything was going to be okay, that it was a variation of normal.”
- Yolanda again deflects, stating:
  - [27:16] “If you took my voice on as the voice of authority … that is not my responsibility. … People are responsible for their own decisions.”
  - [28:50] “No, I don’t have any personal responsibility for what happened to you, Camille. And I am so sorry about your son.”

8. Emily’s Personal Tragedy and FBS’s Continued Expansion

Emily’s public announcement: after rejecting prenatal care and interventions, she experienced a stillbirth.
- [30:36] Emily Saldea announces stillbirth: “Our son, our baby was not born alive.”
Despite three infant/neonatal deaths among just 15 MMI participants, FBS continued to expand, launching new courses and an “uncancellable” workshop.
- [32:57] Emily: “It’s extremely difficult to … make money in radical ways, to withstand cancel culture, public scrutiny…”

9. Expert and Survivor Final Thoughts

Experts reiterate that withholding medical help from endangered newborns is irresponsible and potentially illegal.
Survivors reflect on moving forward, bearing lifelong grief, and hoping for accountability and awareness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Blame-Shifting:
- [07:56] Adair: “I feel pretty angry hearing them essentially say that they don’t hold any responsibility to any of us in any of this. Like, what was the point of the work you were doing if not to influence people?”
On Fatalism:
- [14:18] Yolanda: “…the outcome was wrong, that death is the wrong outcome. And I don’t think that can really ever be true.”
On Deceit:
- [16:44] Emily: “I would certainly lie if my baby was born alive and then died. … That baby was born dead.”
On Peer Influence:
- [24:03] Camille Voitau: “I would just take it as true.”
- [26:35] Camille: “…I didn’t [seek help] because I had your voices in my head telling me everything was going to be okay…”
On Accountability:
- [28:50] Yolanda: “No, I don’t have any personal responsibility for what happened to you, Camille.”
On Loss:
- [10:22] Adair: “My child is dead. Because of information that I received from Emily and Yolanda, I made life-changing decisions based on that information that I paid for.”
- [24:05] Camille: “Okay, Drink the Kool Aid. I was drinking it.”
- [40:24] Adair: “There’s not a single day of my life where I don’t think about what it would be like if she was here… This is going to be a scar that’s with me forever.”
On Fatalistic Teaching:
- [19:41] Emily: “Some babies can take… five minutes, even longer… I’ve heard of babies transitioning… for even 10, 15 minutes.”
- [22:10] Emily: “I… kissed his face, knowing that he would claim his life.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

Rebranding of MMI: [01:19] – [02:27]
Reddit & Podcast Response: [03:45] – [05:36]
Mother Adair’s Story & FBS’s Radical Responsibility: [05:57] – [10:43]
Birth Trauma Debriefs & Camille’s Story: [11:11] – [14:18]
FBS on Death & “Death Plan”: [14:43] – [16:52]
Legal/Ethical Issues: [17:09] – [18:30]
Dangerous Birth Practices Example (Emily's Home Birth Video): [20:14] – [22:52]
Camille Challenges Yolanda on Accountability: [24:08] – [28:50]
Emily’s Stillbirth Announcement & Aftermath: [29:12] – [31:27]
FBS Expansion, “Uncancellable” Workshop: [32:36] – [33:29]
Survivor Updates/Reflections: [35:41] – [40:24]

Final Thoughts

For anyone affected by baby loss, support resources are available—please seek help if needed.

wavePod

The Birth Keepers: Death plan

Summary

The Birth Keepers | The Guardian Investigates

Episode 6: “Death plan”

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rebranding and Legal Evasion

2. Online Backlash and “Cancel Culture” Defense

3. Radical Responsibility vs. Real-World Consequences

4. Death Philosophy and the “Death Plan”

5. Teaching Dangerous Birth Practices

6. Birth Trauma Debriefs—A Business with No Qualifications

7. Confrontation: Camille vs. Yolanda

8. Emily’s Personal Tragedy and FBS’s Continued Expansion

9. Expert and Survivor Final Thoughts

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Final Thoughts

Transcript

Summary

The Birth Keepers | The Guardian Investigates

Episode 6: “Death plan”

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rebranding and Legal Evasion

2. Online Backlash and “Cancel Culture” Defense

3. Radical Responsibility vs. Real-World Consequences

4. Death Philosophy and the “Death Plan”

5. Teaching Dangerous Birth Practices

6. Birth Trauma Debriefs—A Business with No Qualifications

7. Confrontation: Camille vs. Yolanda

8. Emily’s Personal Tragedy and FBS’s Continued Expansion

9. Expert and Survivor Final Thoughts

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Final Thoughts