Podcast Title: THE Bitcoin Podcast
Episode: BITCOIN ADOPTION, SELF-CUSTODY, ECASH & FIGHTING STATE CONTROL | Evan Kaloudis of Zeus
Host: Walker America
Release Date: June 24, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of THE Bitcoin Podcast, host Walker America engages in an in-depth discussion with Evan Kaloudis, co-founder of Zeus, a prominent player in the Bitcoin ecosystem. The conversation delves into the critical aspects of Bitcoin adoption, the balance between self-custody and custodial solutions, the role of eCash, and strategies to combat state control over Bitcoin. The episode provides valuable insights for both newcomers and seasoned Bitcoin enthusiasts, emphasizing the importance of building resilient circular economies and fostering widespread Bitcoin usage.

Bitcoin Adoption and Circular Economies

Evan Kaloudis opens the discussion by stressing the importance of moving Bitcoin beyond its current role as merely a store of value. He articulates a vision where Bitcoin becomes integral to everyday commerce, asserting, “Bitcoin needs everyone. Bitcoin needs you. And its success is not inevitable.” (00:00). Evan emphasizes that for Bitcoin to achieve widespread adoption, it must be embedded in circular economies, ensuring its use in daily transactions rather than being hoarded like "gold 2.0."

Building Resilient Systems Against State Control

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the challenges posed by governmental crackdowns and the importance of collective action. Evan highlights the ongoing prosecutions of key figures in the Bitcoin community, such as the Tornado Cash and Samurai Wallet developers, underscoring the precariousness of the current geopolitical climate. He advises builders and developers to seize the opportunity to expand Bitcoin’s infrastructure while there’s still leeway, stating, “Let's keep pressing forward while we have the runway, let's use it.” (00:00).

Self-Custody vs. Custodial Solutions: The Role of Zeus and Cashew

Evan delves into the offerings of Zeus, particularly the Cashew wallet, which aims to lower the barriers to Bitcoin adoption by providing an easy-to-use, custodial solution that can later transition users to self-custody. He explains, “With Cashew, you can skip the cost of setting up self-custody initially and upgrade when it becomes economically feasible for you.” (05:04). This approach is designed to accommodate users at different stages of their Bitcoin journey, allowing them to experience the benefits of the Lightning Network without the immediate complexities of full self-custody.

Enhancing User Experience and Onboarding

Evan shares insights into Zeus’s development trajectory, highlighting the transition from a remote node controller to a comprehensive mobile wallet. He emphasizes the importance of user-friendly interfaces in driving adoption, noting, “We built what I personally believe is the most powerful mobile Bitcoin wallet on the planet. With a little bit of love, we can make it the best Bitcoin wallet, period.” (59:31). The focus is on refining UI/UX to make Bitcoin accessible even to non-technical users, ensuring that tools like Cashew and Zeus Pay facilitate seamless transactions and merchant onboarding.

Challenges in Bitcoin Adoption and Community Dynamics

The conversation shifts to the broader challenges of Bitcoin adoption, particularly the difficulty in "orange-pilling" individuals who may be resistant or uninterested in the technology. Evan reflects on the personal frustrations of advocating for Bitcoin, recognizing that “most people are going to use it differently. This isn't a consensus change. Bitcoin isn't really changing at its core. Your node, your rules. You should use Bitcoin in the way that makes most sense for you.” (96:18). He underscores the need for patience, education, and gradual integration to foster a more inclusive and adaptable Bitcoin community.

Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) vs. Bitcoin

A significant segment is dedicated to discussing Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and their implications for Bitcoin. Evan expresses skepticism about the privacy and sovereignty offered by CBDCs, stating, “CBDCs have zero privacy. They're the ultimate form of KYC-ing yourself,” (72:30). He contrasts this with Bitcoin’s decentralized and privacy-preserving nature, advocating for the continued development and adoption of Bitcoin-focused solutions to ensure financial sovereignty and resist governmental overreach.

Future Developments: Covenants, CTVs, and Enhanced Privacy

Evan shares his enthusiasm for upcoming Bitcoin protocol enhancements such as Covenants and CheckTemplateVerify (CTV). He explains that these features can revolutionize Bitcoin's functionality by allowing spending restrictions and improved privacy, which are essential for secure self-custody. “Covenants allow you to put spending restrictions on your Bitcoin. It's all optional, it's all opt-in, but it's going to pave the way for a lot of L2 systems to work more efficiently.” (88:19). These advancements are pivotal for making Bitcoin more adaptable and user-friendly, paving the way for innovations like vaults and enhanced Lightning Network capabilities.

Community Support and Resilience

Throughout the episode, Evan highlights the importance of community support in navigating regulatory challenges. Reflecting on Zeus's decision to remain operational despite governmental pressures, he conveys a message of resilience and collective action: “Bitcoin needs everyone. Bitcoin needs you. And its success is not inevitable.” (44:07). This commitment to perseverance and collaboration is portrayed as essential for the sustained growth and protection of the Bitcoin ecosystem against external threats.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the discussion, Evan reiterates the importance of staying committed to building and improving Bitcoin tools and infrastructure. He emphasizes that while individual actions are crucial, collective efforts amplify Bitcoin's resilience and adoption. “You're going to use it, that's amazing. Validate your own transactions, hold your own keys. It's all we've ever really wanted.” (96:18). The episode concludes on a hopeful note, encouraging listeners to explore Zeus’s offerings and contribute to Bitcoin’s ongoing evolution towards a more decentralized and sovereign financial system.

Notable Quotes

• Evan Kaloudis (00:00):
  “Bitcoin needs everyone. Bitcoin needs you. And its success is not inevitable.”

• Evan Kaloudis (05:04):
  “With Cashew, you can skip the cost of setting up self-custody initially and upgrade when it becomes economically feasible for you.”

• Evan Kaloudis (59:31):
  “We built what I personally believe is the most powerful mobile Bitcoin wallet on the planet. With a little bit of love, we can make it the best Bitcoin wallet, period.”

• Evan Kaloudis (72:30):
  “CBDCs have zero privacy. They're the ultimate form of KYC-ing yourself.”

• Evan Kaloudis (88:19):
  “Covenants allow you to put spending restrictions on your Bitcoin. It's all optional, it's all opt-in, but it's going to pave the way for a lot of L2 systems to work more efficiently.”

• Evan Kaloudis (96:18):
  “You're going to use it, that's amazing. Validate your own transactions, hold your own keys. It's all we've ever really wanted.”

Key Takeaways

1. Necessity of Widespread Adoption: Bitcoin must transcend its current status as a store of value and become embedded in everyday commerce to avoid being a "colossal failure."

2. Balancing Self-Custody and Convenience: Solutions like Zeus's Cashew wallet aim to make Bitcoin more accessible by providing custodial options that can transition to self-custody as users become more comfortable.

3. Resilience Against Regulation: Collective action and community support are crucial in defending Bitcoin against potential governmental crackdowns and ensuring its persistence.

4. Impact of CBDCs: While CBDCs present a model of centralized digital currencies with inherent privacy drawbacks, Bitcoin offers a decentralized alternative that preserves financial sovereignty.

5. Future Protocol Enhancements: Upcoming features like Covenants and CTV are set to enhance Bitcoin's functionality, security, and user experience, facilitating greater adoption and integration.

6. Community and Education: Overcoming adoption challenges requires patience, education, and a non-confrontational approach to encourage gradual integration of Bitcoin into mainstream financial practices.

This episode of THE Bitcoin Podcast provides a comprehensive exploration of the multifaceted challenges and opportunities within the Bitcoin ecosystem. Evan Kaloudis offers actionable insights and a forward-looking perspective on how to navigate the complexities of adoption, self-custody, and external pressures, making it a valuable listen for anyone interested in the future of Bitcoin.