Podcast Summary: THE Bitcoin Podcast

Episode: Bitcoin: The Infinite Game & The Price of Everything | Jeff Booth
Host: Walker America
Guest: Jeff Booth
Date: November 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deep, incisive conversation, Walker America welcomes renowned tech entrepreneur and futurist Jeff Booth for a wide-ranging discussion on the philosophical, technological, and societal implications of Bitcoin. The episode explores the distinction between free and controlled markets, the deflationary nature of Bitcoin, global economic shifts, the transformation underway in El Salvador, and the role of privacy-centric technologies like Fedimint and Fedi. Jeff brings his signature clarity and grounded optimism, urging listeners to shift their energy and contributions from the old system to the emerging one enabled by Bitcoin.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Free Markets, Deflation, and Bitcoin’s Uniqueness

• Deflation as the Natural State:
  Jeff Booth asserts repeatedly that the “natural state of the free market is deflation,” and Bitcoin represents the first truly free global market, so long as it remains decentralized and secure.

  “If Bitcoin stayed decentralized and secure, it is the first free market that's ever existed.” (00:00, 13:56, 51:28)

• Changing the Mapping, Not the Terrain:
  He emphasizes, “It's not Bitcoin that's changing. It's us moving from a zero sum game to an infinite gain. But we wouldn't have the map of what the infinite gain looks like, because we've never lived in that map.” (00:18, 81:58)
• Measuring Wealth:
  A caution against evaluating Bitcoin in terms of fiat currencies (controlled systems) because the value system itself is broken.

  “If you're pricing Bitcoin from the control system, you haven't left the matrix yet.” (13:26)

2. Market Cycles, Bear Markets & Fiat Obsession

• Price Anxiety:
  Walker notes community anxiety during bear markets, questioning whether the downturn matters.
• Jeff’s Take:
  Credit market tightness, late auto loans, global liquidity tightening—all fiat symptoms. Bitcoin itself is untouched.

  "Every time they [the Fed] do, you hit these events come from nowhere that have always been there… All the layers are being built. Is being used as a circular economy money in many different communities around the world." (03:55)

3. Building and Participating in the New System

• Incremental Transition:
  Walker and Jeff discuss the personal journey from the fiat system to Bitcoin’s realm.

  “For most people, the best approach is going to be something that’s incremental… just to take that first step.” (17:36)

• Actionable Guidance:
  Jeff recommends literally counting hours spent supporting the old system and redistributing real energy to the Bitcoin economy.

  "Intentionally draw a box around that time and say I'm contributing all of this to the new…” (19:20)

• Empowerment through Contribution:
  Value is created by showing up, providing for others—“The more time you spend, the more time you want to spend.” (22:30)

4. El Salvador: Experiment in Sovereignty & Hope

• Why El Salvador?
  Jeff reflects on his move from Canada for greater flexibility and expresses deep admiration for the hope, safety, and optimism seen firsthand during his recent visits.
• Insights from Meeting President Bukele:
  Jeff shares a revelatory two-hour conversation with President Nayib Bukele and highlights the nuances of advancing Bitcoin adoption while managing IMF relationships.

  “If my citizens run nodes, go into self custody and pay in Bitcoin, then I can get the cheese, get out of the trap, and actually free my citizens.” (33:41)

• Transformation on the Ground:
  The palpable, visible uplift in El Salvador’s mood and safety is described, with Bitcoin adoption reaching a new cultural level.

  “It is so remarkable… the center square in San Salvador… families like 12 o'clock at night… people laughing… It was so hopeful. It's so palpable. It's crazy.” (36:53)

5. Dictatorship, Power, and Bitcoin’s Political Implications

• Bitcoin & Dictatorship:
  Jeff and Walker explore whether a “Bitcoiner can be a dictator.” Bitcoin’s design ultimately gives power to the people through self-custody and nodal sovereignty.

  “It's impossible to be dictator on bitcoin. Impossible… if you told them to get into self custody, run a node so they have agency and spend in bitcoin, you couldn’t be a dictator.” (44:15)

• The Nature of Control Systems:
  A recurring motif is that surveillance and control-based systems must grow more oppressive to sustain themselves, while Bitcoin offers the “infinite game.”

  “Freedom is very different than a potentially controlled system… one system gets worse. It has to be a complete surveillance state. One system gets better. Your time is going to tell you which system is going to win. But they cannot coexist.” (00:00, 51:30)

6. Fedi, Fedimint, and Building for Privacy & Resilience

• Problem Statement:
  Many, even among Bitcoiners, remain trapped mentally—and financially—by fiat logic.

  “Those people are still giving their energy to that system and they think they're not. They think because they hold bitcoin, they're not.” (51:25)

• Fedi/Fedimint Technical & Social Innovation:
  Jeff details the importance of building additional privacy and resilience layers atop Bitcoin, so individuals and communities can transact beyond the reach of centralized or state actors.

  “Please go and create a federation. Please go and protect yourself, your family, your friends… Once you’re there, you can add people to it super easily… your network of people there, you know it’s them.” (70:17)

• Decentralization of Guardians:
  The emergence of distributed guardian networks makes it hard for adversaries or states to compromise community banks and communications.
• Strategic Timing:
  The urgency of building such infrastructure before full state clampdowns is underscored.

  “It had to exist now before what we're going to see and what you're going to see with increasing frequency around the world.” (68:52)

7. The Infinite Game: Generational Perspective & Human Progress

• The Long View:
  Jeff speculates on a 2140 vision of a “Star Trek world,” where value creation is unlimited and every person benefits from an open, free market.

  "By 2140, that's where it will be living… The only reason this could fail is if you didn't believe in us." (76:50, 80:37)

• We Are Both Map and Territory:
  The philosophical takeaway is that humanity is both creating and experiencing this new economic map together.

  “It's not bitcoin that's changing. It's us moving from a zero sum game to an infinite game. But we wouldn't have the map of what the infinite game looks like because we've never lived in that map. We're creating the map. We're both the map and the territory.” (81:58)

Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Freedom vs. Surveillance:

  “Freedom is very different than a potentially controlled system. They cannot exist together.” — Jeff Booth (00:00)

• On Bitcoin’s Stability Amid Chaos:

  “Nothing has changed in bitcoin. Every 10 minutes there's a new block, the builders are building. All of the layers are being built.” — Jeff Booth (07:34)

• On Creating Value:

  “If you're part of the equation in the free market and 99.9% of people aren't, wouldn't that provide an incredible opportunity to create value? … You should have empathy for people that live in the other world. Why are you mad at the thing that's giving you ability to create crazy value?” — Jeff Booth (13:56)

• Bukele’s Cheese & Trap Analogy:

  “I'm a rat, and I'm gonna take the cheese, and then they're gonna catch me in the trap. But… if my citizens run nodes, go into self custody and pay in bitcoin, then I can get the cheese, get out of the trap, and actually free my citizens.” — Jeff Booth (33:41)

• On Dictatorship and Self Custody:

  “It's impossible to be dictator on bitcoin. Impossible… if you told them to get into self custody, run a node so they have agency and spend in bitcoin, you couldn’t be a dictator.” — Jeff Booth (44:15)

• On Asset Obsession:

  “The very idea of an asset… is because money is broken and you can't use money as money, so you need to put it in something else that will protect it. This is money. It's going to be money. And the more you use it as money, the faster it becomes money.” — Jeff Booth (73:25)

Critical Timestamps

• 00:00: Jeff Booth opens with the irreconcilability of free and controlled monetary systems.
• 03:55: Jeff speaks to global tightening liquidity, the real causes of malaise, and Bitcoin's unchanging core.
• 08:57: Jeff comments on Square/Cash App’s massive mainstream Bitcoin adoption moves.
• 17:36: Discussion of making incremental shifts into the new system.
• 26:03: Jeff explains the personal and systemic reasons behind his decision to leave Canada.
• 31:46: Recap of Jeff’s in-person meeting with President Bukele; strategic insight into state-vs-citizen transitions in El Salvador.
• 38:19: The dramatic social change visible in San Salvador—safety, optimism, and family presence at all hours.
• 43:39: The limits of dictatorship when people truly have self-custody and run their own nodes.
• 51:28: The relentless requirement to choose: surveillance/fiat system vs. freedom/Bitcoin.
• 68:52: The necessity of privacy-resilient infrastructure (Fedi/Fedimint) ahead of anticipated crackdowns.
• 73:25: Using Bitcoin as money, not as an asset, will make it become true money faster.
• 76:50: Vision of a “Star Trek world” and infinite opportunity once true free markets emerge.

Conclusion & Calls to Action

The discussion is both practical and visionary, leaving listeners with clear calls to action:

• Invest genuine time and energy into the new Bitcoin economy, even incrementally.
• Begin using tools like Fedimint and Fedi for both monetary and communication privacy.
• Stay critical of old power structures and don’t let fiat valuation anxiety distract from the long-term mission.
• If possible, visit places like El Salvador to experience what social transformation via Bitcoin can look like.

“It's not Bitcoin that's changing. It's us moving from a zero sum game to an infinite game. But we wouldn't have the map of what the infinite game looks like because we've never lived in that map. We're creating the map. We're both the map and the territory.” — Jeff Booth (81:58)

Further Resources:

• Fedi: https://www.fedi.xyz/
• Learn Bitcoin 101: http://101.BitcoinPodcast.net
• Listen & Subscribe: BitcoinPodcast.net
• Connect on Nostr: Walker America @primal.net/walker

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