BITCOIN, TRUMP, FREEDOM & THE AMERICAN IDEA - ERIK CASON & AMERICAN HODL (THE Bitcoin Podcast)

Summary

Episode Summary: "BITCOIN, TRUMP, FREEDOM & THE AMERICAN IDEA" with Erik Cason & American Hodl

Release Date: November 7, 2024

In this intense and unfiltered episode of THE Bitcoin Podcast, host Walker America engages in a passionate dialogue with guests Erik Cason and American Hodl. The conversation navigates through the turbulent intersections of Bitcoin, politics, societal issues, and personal philosophies, offering listeners a raw glimpse into the fervent perspectives shaping the Bitcoin community.

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1. Bitcoin and Financial Independence

Erik Cason kicks off the discussion by emphasizing the transformative potential of Bitcoin for personal wealth growth. He criticizes individuals who overlook Bitcoin's financial benefits, suggesting that a lack of understanding in monetary dynamics has hindered their financial advancement.

"You could have just doubled your wealth over the last year had you just... understand how money actually works." [00:00]

American Hodl echoes this sentiment by denouncing fiat currencies as detrimental to both material wealth and mental autonomy. He advocates for proactive engagement in financial activities, highlighting Bitcoin as a means to achieve self-sufficiency.

"Fiat is a disease of the mind... just go do it. Do what you want to do. That is the Bitcoin story." [02:40]

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2. The Political Landscape and Trump's Influence

A significant portion of the episode delves into the implications of Donald Trump's presidency on Bitcoin and American society. The guests express concerns about governmental control over monetary policy, drawing parallels to historical instances of authoritarianism.

"What it means for Bitcoin, you and the world." [04:56]

They discuss the potential for Bitcoin to act as a bulwark against government overreach, advocating for its role in preserving financial freedom and resisting centralized control.

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3. Media Critique and Social Divisions

The conversation takes a critical turn towards mainstream media and the societal fractures it perpetuates. Erik Cason and American Hodl address issues of racism, political polarization, and the detrimental effects of propaganda on public discourse.

"Rhetoric around racism is tearing families apart... maybe we should just talk to people instead of murder them." [07:28]

They argue that media-driven narratives exacerbate divisions, hindering constructive dialogue and fostering an environment of mistrust and hostility.

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4. Bitcoin as a Unifying Political Force

Exploring Bitcoin's potential beyond financial realms, the guests discuss its capacity to serve as a unifying political force. They envision Bitcoin as a tool for challenging existing financial institutions and promoting individual liberties.

"The Bitcoin story is about not by decree. You decree it. You go out and do what you want to do." [02:40]

American Hodl emphasizes the importance of Bitcoin's decentralized nature in empowering individuals to take control of their financial destinies without reliance on traditional institutions.

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5. Personal Experiences and Community Building

Both Erik Cason and American Hodl share personal anecdotes reflecting their journeys within the Bitcoin community. They highlight the significance of a supportive network and a growth mindset in navigating the complexities of Bitcoin and societal challenges.

"The more I rock the boat, the more that they're going to resist it." [06:01]

American Hodl underscores the necessity of mental resilience and proactive engagement to foster meaningful change within and beyond the Bitcoin ecosystem.

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6. Future Outlook and Strategic Planning

As the episode draws to a close, the guests offer their projections for Bitcoin's future trajectory. Erik Cason anticipates significant growth in Bitcoin's value, urging listeners to invest wisely and remain steadfast in their commitment to the Bitcoin standard.

"Bitcoin is going to rip super hard in the next six months." [102:06]

They also discuss strategic moves, such as leveraging Bitcoin to counteract governmental monetary policies and advocating for constitutional amendments to limit federal control over financial systems.

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Notable Quotes

• Erik Cason: "You could have just doubled your wealth over the last year had you just... understand how money actually works." [00:00]

• American Hodl: "Fiat is a disease of the mind... just go do it. Do what you want to do. That is the Bitcoin story." [02:40]

• Erik Cason: "Bitcoin doesn't solve cash flow problems. If you're thoughtful and saving money, Bitcoin's gonna be hugely helpful for you." [90:08]

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Conclusion

This episode of THE Bitcoin Podcast offers a candid and fervent exploration of Bitcoin's role in challenging traditional financial systems and fostering individual autonomy. Through impassioned discussions on politics, media influence, and personal responsibility, Erik Cason and American Hodl provide listeners with a thought-provoking narrative on leveraging Bitcoin for personal and societal transformation.

Whether you're a seasoned Bitcoin enthusiast or new to the cryptocurrency landscape, this episode delivers a compelling perspective on the power of Bitcoin as a force for financial independence and political change.

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Note: The conversation contained strong language and provocative viewpoints. This summary aims to present the core discussions while moderating explicit content for a broader audience.

Transcript

[Eric Cason]

Look, you dumb motherfuckers, like you could have, you could have just doubled your fucking wealth over the last year had you just like shut the fuck up and been like, maybe I'm poor and working at a dead end job that I fucking hate because I don't understand how money actually works. And maybe these bitcoin guys who have like made some money and some self independence for themselves, like maybe they have a point, but instead they go, this is a far right psyop that's being played in order to try to destroy the wonderfulness of modern monetary theory. And the government needs to be able to print out money because how else can we spread the love and make sure that all people everywhere are always equal and have all of the equal opportunity always. Particularly the brown people that we want to bomb out of existence because, you know, they need to use my fucking pronouns. And that's why we're bombing the shit out of them, is because they're hateful, racist pieces of garbage that you know, and then, and then there's just like the like, well like fuck Israel, we can't like support them. But like Ukraine is great. Or the people doing the opposite one. I'm like, what? Like why the fuck is the red or the blue people, people telling you to bomb the right people regardless? Like, maybe you should just be upset that brown people are, you know, and in the case of Ukraine, white people too are getting blown up. Like the bombs are not racist. They will kill people whether they're white or brown. And I don't know, it would just be really great if people could be like, you know, maybe we should just kind of talk to people instead of murder them. But again, I'm not a politician. Maybe there's something I'm missing here. Maybe they need to be murdered. I don't know.

[American Hodl]

You can just do things. You don't have to wait for anybody. Nothing's decreed. Like, listen, fiat is a fucking disease of the mind. That's what it is. And every currency on earth that's not Bitcoin is fiat. Ethereum is Fiat. Solana is Fiat. Tether is fiat. They're all fiat, okay? And then obviously all the fiat currencies are fiat. But fiat is not just affecting the monetary supply and material goods like iPhones and shit. No, fiat affects you. It affects your mind. It affects the way you think. You think that the world is decreed to you from scribes on high. It's not. The world is built by people that get out and build the fucking world. So if you want to do something. Just go do it. Get politically active if you want to be politically active. Build a business if you want to build a business. Build a family if you want to build a family. Build an estate if you want to build an estate. Go to Mars if you want to go to Mars. Fucking just go do it. Do what you want to do. That is the bitcoin story. Not by decree. No one tells you to do it. You decree it. You fucking decree it. You go out and do what the fuck you're gonna do in the world. That's what we're doing here in bitcoin.

[Eric Cason]

Fuck this Fiat bullshit. Fuck CBDCs. And it's time for us to really start rebuilding in a meaningful and thoughtful way on top of a bitcoin standard, because that's really an American standard.

[American Hodl]

What the fuck am I doing listening to this person? I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want.

[Eric Cason]

No, I'm doing what.

[Walker]

Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast. The bitcoin time chain is 869202 and the value of one bitcoin is still one bitcoin. Today's episode is Bitcoin Talk, where I talk with my guests about bitcoin and whatever else comes up. And today those guests are Eric Cason and American Hodl. Hodl. Fair warning, this episode contains language that may trigger you if you are easily triggered. I am not going to run through a laundry list of everything we talk about in advance because honestly, we talk about a lot. I'll just tell you it was a great fucking rip, and I think it'll help you to digest and get perspective on Donald Trump becoming President of the United States. Again, what it means for bitcoin, you and the world. You'll just have to take my word for it that it's worth your time. So just sit back, relax and enjoy. Before we dive in, do me a favor and subscribe to the Bitcoin podcast wherever you're watching or listening. Check out bitcoin podcast.net for episodes and additional resources. Head to the Show Notes to grab discount links for my sponsor, Bitbox, or go directly to Bitbox Swiss Walker and use promo code Walker. Send an email to helloitcoinpodcast.net if you have feedback or if you're interested in sponsoring the Bitcoin podcast. And if you find this show valuable, consider giving value back by giving it a zap on Noster or a boost on Fountain. Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Eric Casen and American hodl. Hodl. Okay. We are allegedly live on Zap Stream so I'm just going to fiddle with this for a second and let's see here. But yeah, we were. Eric, we were just discussing that Hodl is basically on Team no sleep right now and has been. Yeah, just.

[Eric Cason]

Are you.

[American Hodl]

Ever since they stole the 2020 election, you got to stay up all night now.

[Walker]

You know, you got to keep them in check.

[Eric Cason]

So is this like a. Is this like a, like a young children thing or is this like your brain is all spun out?

[American Hodl]

No, it's because I was at Bitcoin Mags live stream for like 12 hours yesterday and I didn't get home until like you know, 1:30am and then I fucking didn't go to sleep until 2:00am and then because I have young children, I was up at 5am oh good. Like you know, good tie.

[Eric Cason]

My sleep got absolutely fucked a couple nights ago cuz like I was like I'm gonna stay up a little late and watch a movie. And then my brain was like, yeah, you want to stay up fucking late, asshole. How about you fall asleep at 4am? So that's why. You know what, like this shit isn't worth it anymore. Like I'm a fucking adult. I'm going to bed at 9:00, I'm gonna get up at 6:00 and like work out and do all my like adult shit because I'm just like fucking sick. Like I could do that shit when I was in my 20s, but like that's a long ways away from now. So now I gotta like take care of my body or it's gonna fuck me up.

[Walker]

Yeah, dude, it's. I was out, I was fishing like this whole weekend. Like a dude's trip with my, my dad and my father in law and like some other older dudes and drought. Just like. Yeah, we were fishing. Fishing for steelheads. It was a wonderful time. My first time fishing for steelheads. Had a blast. But like you're out in the river all goddamn day and by the time we got back like, and I was like the young buck of the group and still I'm like 7pm it's about time to turn in. Like fuck. But yes, I feel your pain. But then last night I got home from the trip and like was watching MSNBC for fun and stayed up until like three or something.

[American Hodl]

Either of you watched the View this morning?

[Eric Cason]

No.

[American Hodl]

It was so good. I would highly recommend.

[Walker]

Describe it.

[American Hodl]

Well they start. Whoopi Goldberg starts off with tears in her eyes, and she's trying to be magnanimous, and she. She goes, yeah, let's talk about. Let's get into it. And then she passes it to Joy Behar, and Joy Behar holds it together for, like, 90% of the time. And she's like, you know, we got. It was a fair election, and we got to just. But he's a racist. And then they just, like, descended. It's a full struggle session.

[Walker]

Oh, my God.

[American Hodl]

It was amazing. Like, honestly, it could have been pay per view. I would have paid $75 to watch it. It was one of the greatest things I've ever seen. It was amazing.

[Eric Cason]

So, like, what. What are they gonna do now other than just, like, malfunction and have a hard time? Like, I'm just really enjoying getting to, like, sit in this space and being like, democracy is super great, isn't it? Isn't it wonderful that we elected a fascist Hitler who's waiting for his second term to implement the genocide against all of the people that are you? And they're like, good. So I'm really.

[Walker]

The glitching is real right now. Like, you've, like, it's. You almost feel bad, or. I would almost feel bad if the people who are glitching, like, we're glitching right now, weren't so insufferable for so long. Like, I would almost feel bad. You know what I mean? But I'm not quite there yet.

[American Hodl]

No, I don't feel a shred of guilt about anything. I'm just laughing at all the memes. It's hilarious.

[Eric Cason]

Like, look, like, fuck this voting in democracy nonsense. But, like, I'm. I'm really enjoying these liberals that. That have used the last four years to try to cram all this fucking nonsense down everybody's throat. And I would have to deal with, like, the reactionary against that in addition to the fact that, like, it's about fucking time. Like, the last. The last four years were, like, really fucking wacky. Like, we had. We still have this geriatric. Like, what the fuck happened to Joe Biden? Did he just, like, vanish? Like, what. It's just so weird to me in that, like, in the meanwhile, the whole liberal machine keeps marching on being like, this is so. Anyways, I'm just excited to watch this whole thing kind of break down and crash into flames and see what happens.

[American Hodl]

I woke up feeling just proud of America. And the reason I was proud of America is not because America voted the way I Wanted them to vote, which they did, like in a landslide victory. The reason I was proud of them, it was proud of the feeling of being American, was that propaganda doesn't work on us. You tried to psyop us and we just aren't fucking having it. Because being an American means doing whatever the fuck we want and you are not allowed to tell us what to do. That's the feeling. That's the energy I woke up with. Like, the American people are exactly who I thought they were. You know, it's like that meme, they are who we thought they were. They are who we thought they were. You know, it's like the American people are who I thought they were and they're just as fucking wild and untamed and fucking crazy and individualistic as I've always expected and needed them and wanted them to be and known that they were. And I just fucking love it. I love seeing the results come in and then the people who are the professional propagandists, the Joe Scarborough, the MSNBCs, the Rachel Maddows, the Whoopi Goldbergs, right? Professional paid propagandists go, I can't believe calling them racist garbage didn't work. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck all of you. Fuck you.

[Eric Cason]

It's interesting because, like, it's, it's this really reactionary, hateful thing where, and it's like super hypocritical where it's like, fuck you, you racist piece of goddamn shit. Like, you need to go into the fucking concentration camp and be brutally raped and tortured because you won't tolerate other people, you fucking sick fucking pig. And it's like, you know, maybe there should be some self reflection here about some of those things you said and are expressing and like, I don't know. And like, this is the thing that I've been trying to deal with. Kind of in the liberal bubble I'm in. It's like, hey, do you guys think that, like all the hatred and vitriol that you're directing at white people and about like, how useless men are and that they really obstruct everything that could have ever been done that's good might have a little something to do with this in addition to, like, perhaps we're in the position that we're in because of the way that you keep shitting on all these people that actually might have some degree of value to society. And I'm not saying they're better or worse than anybody, but maybe trying to direct all your hate towards them could have something to do with the outcome that came here, as opposed to you being like, hey, these people we'd like to include in the fold rather than just kind of doing the reverse hate thing. But, you know, I don't know, I'm not, I'm not a politician.

[American Hodl]

It's tough to tell people, like, hey, you know, all that shit that's in your head, that's not real. It's just not real. None of it. You made it up. You're living in magical fairy princess land, okay? And what I would, what I would want you to do is form a hypothesis and test it. You know what I mean? Like experiment. Are you in magical fairy princess land? Can you fly? You know what I mean? Maybe you start on the ground first, don't jump out of a window, but like, you know, maybe test your, flap your wings a little, see if it works. If it doesn't, maybe we have the wrong hypothesis. I don't know. Weird.

[Walker]

Whoa.

[American Hodl]

Just falling here.

[Walker]

That would require like critical thought though, and actual self reflection. And like now they've just, they've gone the other way. And they're like, well, actually the black and Latinos are racist too. And they clearly like. And you're like, hold on, hold on, guys. I was told because of the intersectional hierarchy that they couldn't be happy.

[American Hodl]

Racist, racist.

[Walker]

But, but now they are racist. And the Arabs too, some of those Arabs, we don't like them. The Cubans, especially escaping communism, coming here, voting for a Republican. Who do they think they are? It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's fucking. Will there be any self reflection though? Like any like, moment of inward, like looking inward to say maybe we were kind of part of the problem, huh?

[American Hodl]

They're nowhere close to being ready to deal with reality. You know, in a sense, it's kind of like it's a huge miscarriage of American civil duty that's happened because these people have been so badly brainwashed and psyoped by the mainstream media, these professional state propagandists, that you can't help but feel a little bit bad for them. But at the same time, there's nothing to do but to get out of your echo bubble. The only person who can crawl out of Plato's cave is you. And I don't know how to explain to you that the shadows aren't real, they're just not real. And so like, those of us who are out of the cave, we, we all talk about how retarded you all are in the cave, but we don't know how to actually get you out of the cave. Because every time we try and bring you out, you fucking bite us and go, rabbit, you know, and we can.

[Eric Cason]

Like literally trust you.

[Walker]

The cave, the exit is right there. Like this is where, this is where you need to go to get out of the cave. And they're like, that exit looks not really like it's inclusive. I don't think I'm going to go out that way. Sorry Casey. Go ahead, man.

[Eric Cason]

With it being at a bitcoin all time high right now like that, you know what I came on with is that like, look, you dumb motherfuckers, you could have just doubled your fucking wealth over, you know, over the last year had you just like shut the fuck up and been like, maybe I'm poor and working at a dead end job that I fucking hate because I don't understand how money actually works. And maybe these bitcoin guys, guys who have like made some money and some self independence for themselves, like maybe they have a point, but instead they go, this is a far right psyop that's being played in order to try to destroy the wonderfulness of modern monetary theory. And the government needs to be able to print out money because how else can we spread the love and make sure that all people everywhere are always equal and have all of the equal opportunity always. Particularly the brown people that we want to bomb out of existence because, you know, they need to use my fucking pronouns. And that's why we're bombing the shit out of them is because they're hateful, racist pieces of garbage that you know, and then, and then there's just like the like, well like fuck Israel, we can't like support them, but like Ukraine is great or the people doing the opposite one. I'm like, what? Like why the fuck is the red or the blue people telling you to bomb the right people regardless? Like, maybe you should just be upset that brown people are, you know, and in the case of Ukraine, white people too are getting blown up. Like the bombs are not racist. They will kill people whether they're white or brown. And I don't know, it would just be really great if people could be like, you know, maybe we should just kind of talk to people instead of murder them. But again, I'm not a politician. Maybe there's something I'm missing here. Maybe they need to be murdered.

[American Hodl]

I don't know the bitcoin price as a lens by which to view the world. It's like last night when I was watching the election results, I was at bitcoin magazine studio and they had all the boards up and all the stuff, you know, and I'm watching it all. It's like the traditional media. And I'm on my phone looking at the bitcoin price and I'm like, Trump's gonna win. Like, it just got bid in the markets. This is gonna happen. I now know the future ahead of traditional media. And it's the same thing with like Poly Market was telling us Trump was gonna win for months and months, because people have been actually, you know, putting economic value behind those, those, you know, those votes that they're making with their economic capital, right? And so, you know, if you're listening to traditional media, you're trying to do sense making that way. And you have like, you know, the Nate Silver's of the world, the pollsters telling you, Ann Seltzer telling you, like, oh, he's gonna win Iowa, whatever. Like, they, these people have no skin in the game. So there's no proof of work to their predictions. And you need to, once you have proof of work as a lens, you as a bitcoiner, look for it and see it and find it everywhere. And anything that you can attach proof of work to, you realize that this is a real thing and you can bank on it. But I mean, people that don't have that are doing everything, proof of stake, right? Like, they just don't understand that reality that unfortunately they are living in. There's nothing you can do about it. You can't, you can't escape that reality, right? Like, you are inside that reality.

[Eric Cason]

Well, to be clear, like, proof of stake is a methodology that's like operable and like, that's called socialism. Like, I can actually like, hijack the government and be like, hey, Mr. Musk, like, fuck you. We're gonna like, steal all your shit. It's like, cool. Like, now that we did that, guys, like, how much more Runway we have? They're like, we have. We have four days. We got four days to run the budget now. It's like, oh, it's like the guy that's. Wait, wait, the guy that's getting us into space and like, gave us like satellite Internet and shit. Like stealing everything from him. Got us four days of Runway. And they're like, yeah, so we're out of time now. So who are we gonna rob next? Like that. The Amazon guy? Yeah. Like, fuck him. He's like stealing from people and he's hateful. It's like, yeah, why do you think he has better approval ratings than, like, they didn't like everyone than like the US Military, like it seems like people really like him. They're like, ah, cuz, cuz he's, he's racist, right? So let's steal his shit. And like, and like that's what proof of stake is about. It's like, fuck these other people. We can like steal their shit and like remake the rules so that like stealing shit is okay when we steal shit for the right reasons. And this is like the clusterfuck that's ethereum. Like if you've watched like what their monetary policy has been like sent like since the fucking DOW fork that happened. It's, it's literally always been like, yeah, but like this is the one time it will ever happen. Well, maybe we'll change it again. You know what, Fuck it, we're just going to kind of do whatever we want and like, that's fine, but it's not going to work out long term and there's going to be very severe fucking consequences. So you could learn about how economics works. And it turns out that like, no, nobody likes being stolen from. And it turns out like, if I can steal from you, I can steal from other people too. And that's like a really big problem. So you should probably be invested in a system that goes, you know what, we're not going to steal from anybody ever. And they're like, but what about Hitler and Pol Pot? And it's like, yeah, it turns out that even fucking assholes, we like need to respect their right to property too. And they're like, but if we do that then like all of the racists and hateful people will win. And it's like, you know, maybe you need to expand your worldview beyond thinking that everybody's hateful and racist. And that's kind of their main problem, by the way. Like, I've never actually. Like when I was younger, I had a couple friends, dads who were like pretty racist and stuff. But it was always this like, I don't know, like, I've never met somebody who like really had as. They're like main thing. They're like, yeah, but like fuck the Mexicans and the black people. It's like usually like, yeah, but what about Habib? Like, he was helping us out early and they're like, well yeah, he's brown and that, that's fine, but. And I'm like, so you're like, not really that racist. And they're like, well, you know, they're trying to take our jabs. It's like, well, but were you gonna, were you gonna do the gardening. And they were, well, no, fuck no, I ain't gonna get wet today. It's like maybe he. Maybe Jesus is pretty good at what he does, you know, I'm just saying, like, I don't think he's taking your job. You don't, you don't seem like you're going to be gardening in the rain. I'm just saying, I think so much.

[Walker]

This is like a. It is a mirror, right? Like what you see in everybody else tends to be more of a reflection of what you have going on in the inside than what is actually going on with them. Because you don't fucking know them. You have no way of knowing what their beliefs are, whether or not they are a giant bigot and a racist, or whether they're just some man or woman trying to live their life, put food in the table for their kids and not get just absolutely bent over a barrel by the government, which is like a reasonable thing. Like, nobody really wants to be bent over a barrel by the government, right? But apparently if you push back against that too hard, you are given one of these labels. But then it's like you have kind of this proof of concept here that this is just a reflection of what is going on in a lot of these bigot callers minds. When you see them say things like, you know, oh, I can't. Like, why would all of these Latinos vote for their own deportation? It's like, do you think the only Latinos in the country are here illegally? Like, do. Like, is that what you think, that they're voting for their own deportation? Like, there's lots of Latinos here who came here legally, like a ton of them. And it turns out a lot of them were escaping the same sort of bullshit socialist verging on communist policies that you're trying to push on them now. And then you turn around and call them racist because they didn't agree with you. Like, it's this insane paternalistic projection. And I like. But again, the sad thing is, I don't know if there is ever like a come to Jesus moment where they're like, you know what? You know what, guys? We went too far. We were wrong. That was pretty messed up for a few years there, huh? We're cool now. Let's keep things civil. We're not going to call everybody Nazis anymore. Especially you white lib. Or you white women, you know, you white suburban women, you Nazis. Like, it just like turns out calling everybody a Nazi is a really bad campaign move. Like, I don't know Who? Like how? Who could have known, right? Shocking. If you do not want to be bent over a barrel by an authoritarian state, go to bitbox.swiss/ Walker and use promo code walker for 5% off the fully open source Bitcoin only Bitbox 02 hardware wallet. Then get your bitcoin off the exchange and into your own self custody. But if you do want to be bent over a barrel by an authoritarian state, no judgment. I mean, maybe just a little. But definitely do not go to bitbox Swiss Walker and use that promo code walker. Bitcoin is ripping and soon your stack will be worth a heck of a lot more in fiat value than it is today. We all know one bitcoin equals one bitcoin. But regardless, now is the perfect time to make sure that you have your security locked down with Bitbox. And I really want to emphasize that the Bitbox O2 is easy as hell to use. Whether you are brand new to bitcoin. It's your first time setting up a hardware wallet, so you're understandably a little bit nervous or you are a well seasoned psychopath. Again, it's bitcoin only and again it is fully open source. You can head to their GitHub and verify that for yourself. You don't need to trust me or bitbox. When you go to bitbox Swiss Slash Walker and use the promo code walker, not only do you get 5% off and prevent yourself from being bent over a barrel by an authoritarian state, but you also help support this fucking podcast. So thank you.

[American Hodl]

I think, you know, you guys are both being charitable and trying to like diagnose them. And I spent a lot of, I spent a lot of time trying to do that too. Like get into their heads and understand their psychology. Like, how could you think this way? It's so severely retarded. And now I'm just like, listen. We have now unfettered control of all three branches of government. And it's like, I don't listen at the Thanksgiving dinner table. I don't pay attention to the conversation at the kids table. I don't care what the kids are talking about. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. It's like, what color crayon do you like? I don't know, I like burnt umber. That's my favorite. It's like, no, who gives a fuck? We're at the adult table now and it's about stacking wins on the board. And you know, like for instance, I mean, Trump is the first bitcoin president Vance owns Bitcoin. We now have the opportunity to, like, see real bitcoin, like, appointments be made where, like, people who are being recommended for high purchase of power will be people that are sympathetic to bitcoin, if not bitcoiners themselves from an ideological standpoint. And to me, that's the most fascinating thing that's going on. And whatever, like, woke mind virus is, like, eating the brains of, like, the liberal white women we all know. I don't give a single fuck. Like, drink your chardonnay, bitch. And like, hopefully it cures it. I don't know what to tell you, you know.

[Eric Cason]

Well, it's my funny cuz I have a good friend who, like, you know, he's like, like, deep barrier roots. So, like, everybody's like, very, very liberal and, like, he's a bit of the black Sheba family. So he, you know, he was like, I'm gonna vote for Trump, and this is, like, very upsetting to his family. And, like, you know, everyone was getting outraged with him and he was like, look. He was like, look, like, the only way we get to talk about politics now is like, you have to steel, man my position. Like, you don't get to come to me and be like, but Trump's like a racist bigot. Like, you need to actually come to me and be like, well, perhaps you want to elect Trump because you feel different about economic policies or whatever. And I found, like, this is the best way to actually force people to think in a meaningful way because, like, otherwise they'll do the same bullshit with you. But I've found, like, it really glitches people pretty hard because I can be like, look, like, I. I understand your position. Like, you think Kamala as being the first black woman president is really going to create policies that champion and allow, for, you know, people of various and diverse backgrounds to be able to have a real leg up in America. Totally hear that. I have a fundamentally different position that I don't believe that that actually helps people in a unique way. And I actually think there's a very discreet kind of racism that's going on with that. When you say, hey, we need to give reparations to black people because they're not good enough to be able to compete with the white people. It's like they're, you know, like, I. I see something a bit racist in that. And, like, again, I'm not trying to take away from that. They're. There can be good reasoning behind that, but, you know, particularly living in the state of California, where this has actually been Proposed as, like, a meaningful bill. Seemed pretty fucking racist to me to steal a bunch of money from me and give it to a bunch of, you know, people. You know, I think in this case, just black people that are gonna be getting that money directly when, as far as I know, they directly were not enslaved by me or my ancestors. And I'm not sure what their relationship is to it either. Same thing with Kamala Harris. Like, black woman. This is. This, you know, great that if she was elected that she would be the first black woman. But let's be very clear. She's not, like, African American. She's a Jamaican woman. That's where she's descended from. And again, like, doesn't take away from the fact that that is. Would be the first black woman president, but she is not an African American. And that's a bit misleading to kind of do that whole pitch. But most people are really uninterested in this just because they have a deep vested interest in what their emotional capacity is. And that's one of the things I found deeply disturbing about a lot of liberal ideology, is that, like, if something feels right, that means that, like, that. That is right. And when you try to pick that apart, they, you know, they go, well, that's racist. And that doesn't feel like. If I'm. That doesn't feel good, so we can't be that. And, like, it turns out that, like, maybe there is a little bit of racism you have going on there with, you know, wanting to steal money from white people and give it to all the other people. Just saying.

[Walker]

Dude, it's. You know, it's. You mentioned, like, this friend who's bucking the trend in his Bay Area family. Right. And something I just think is so genuinely sad is that we are at a place right now, and I'm sure, you know, people could come up with examples of, like, well, in the Civil War, families were broken up over that, and it's like, okay, let's not. Please, let's not compare the two. The two moments in time. But the fact that people will literally stop speaking to their family, basically, you know, dis. You know, disavow them. Like, well, my. My mom voted for Donald Trump, and so I can't. I just. I won't speak to her anymore. I can't possibly. Because it turns out, even though this woman loved me and raised me my entire life and made so many sacrifices for me and did everything she possibly could to give me, every advantage I could have, she's a racist bigot. And it's like, people will literally stop. Like, I'm sure you guys. No people. Like, I can think of a number of people within circles, I run it like off the top of my head that live like, nope, I won't be talking to them anymore. Like, I, like, I'm out. You know, no more family Thanksgiving for me. I can't be around this racism. No more Christmas. You're not going to see your grandchild. I don't know any of those examples personally. Out of no more grandchildren time, that'd be like, especially fucked up. But the point is, like, how do you have so much hate in your heart that you cannot, you cannot get over the fact that somebody that you love and that loves you may have a slightly different opinion than you and that the fact that their opinion is different is so offensive to you that you would break apart those ties that bind you. For a fucking political candidate, for a fucking agent of the state apparatus, that is fucking insane. Like, that, that truly blows my mind. And I think that's, that is really sad. If somebody by some chance is listening to this who's like, well, I haven't talked to my Uncle Jim in two years because he voted for so and so on either side of the fucking aisle. Who cares? Like, you should be able to argue the most with the people you love the most because no matter what, at the end of the day, you guys fucking still love each other. Get the fuck over it. You're gonna have disagreements, it's okay. That's a beautiful thing. And you should have people that challenge you.

[Eric Cason]

It's both about like a. First of all, it's about like a really weak frame of individual reference that's very frankly callow at the bottom. Because like, if you, you have to identify so strongly with a political party or a movement that, that becomes definitive about you and that like, you, you, you need to break with other people because they're disagreeing with it. Because, like, look, like, I'm clearly like a fucking freak bitcoiner. And like, everyone in my life doesn't agree with the bitcoin thing, despite the fact that they've seen me have very, very fat gains while they have lost lots of money. And I think that's sad and unfortunate and like, I'm always like waiting, you know, at the dinner table at Thanksgiving for them. Be like, so Eric, like, bitcoin's at an all time high. Like, we were all totally fucking wrong and we, we could have, you know, doubled our portfolios had we actually listened to you. But like, nope, never Fucking happens. And at best I try to bring up the bitcoin thing. They're like, wow, like the. I just don't understand this money thing. So how was the game last night? And I'm like, you know, you could, like, you could have actually like rolled that into like a question being like, so Eric, like, what is money? Like, why is bitcoin actually different from the dollar? Because I don't understand. And you seem to get it. But yeah, that never happens. And I find it pretty sad and unfortunate. And the other one is like, I'm still open to bitcoin being fucking wrong. I'm certain it's not. I mean, like, if you happen to be a top tier world cryptographer and you're like, check it out, there's this error in the SEP256 curve that was chosen and turns out the whole thing's fucking broken. You know, I'd probably contact the US military first and like, let them know and understand that fucking encryption standards don't work. But I just find it pretty fascinating how deep most people have fled into the them and like, they don't actually have a definitive idea of who and what they are, their purpose in the world, and that they're like, much more interested in making sure everybody feels comfortable and safe rather than making a little bit of discomfort in a conversation that might force some thought and growth. Because, like, again, I don't want to be a fucking asshole, but why don't we think real hard about how things are going and what we would really desire for ourselves and others and like, I, I don't know, it's. I know this Thanksgiving is going to get interesting with people being like, that hateful bigot Trump, he was elected and he's going to destroy America. Now I'll be like, yeah, like, it was pretty bad when Hitler was elected for the second non consecutive term and when he really made the choice to go after all of his political opponents at that point in time. That was a really weird time in history, huh, guys?

[American Hodl]

Yeah. Remember Hitler's bipartisan coalition, you know, like the Tulsi Gabbards of the Weimar Germany were joining up with Hitler. Like, no, it's so stupid, dude. I think if we take it at face value, everything Eric said and Walker said is true. But I think a lot of these things are just that family members just really don't fuck with each other for deep familial reasons, like trauma reasons. And they're using the Trump thing as a convenient excuse, right? Rather than going to therapy and hashing out their shit or having a frank and honest conversation. I mean, I have family members in my life who, you know, I've had these frictions with. And the truth is, like, our relationship was never good. It goes deep to the psyche of both individuals in the conflict. It relates back to our grandparents and their psych. And, you know, it just goes back and back. And you're like, okay, so I actually have been, like, cast in a play here of, like, some deep familial trauma, and I'm not even really aware of what's going on. And neither is the other participant. We just know that we don't like each other. And then you have this flash point of Donald Trump's election in 2016 or in 2024 or whatever, and then that becomes the way to fissure. Like, it creates the fissures in the relationship and whatever. So I think that's a lot of what's going on. But I also think that more on the topic that you were saying about you were trying to talk to all these people and they wouldn't listen and whatever. I went through this myself, and what I realized is that I had survivors guilt. So I needed to fix them. For me, had nothing to do with them. It was all about me. It had to do with my own feelings of inadequacy around not being able to save my own mother from her psychological issues. And then when I realized that, I was like, oh, okay, I can just stop doing that because it's not serving the other person. I thought it was my way into being a good person. Like, I'm a good person. I care about these people. I really want to help them and whatever. But the truth is, man, that there are people with a growth mindset and there are people without a growth mindset, and I'm a person with a growth mindset. I want to continue growing in life and doing, you know, because there's no. There's no stasis in nature, right? That's. Nature abhors a vacuum. Like, there is no stasis. Everything's in constant flux. It's constant chaos. And you're basically either growing or decaying. Right? That's how nature works. And so we are a part of nature. That's how we work also. That's how we work psychologically. But for some reason, people don't think or believe this, and they like to, you know, have this sort of delusion that they're. They're a static element in a static system makes no sense to me. And I can't Stand people who are like that, and I don't want to be around them. So for me, after I realized the survivor's guilt thing, I was like, okay, yeah, I don't want to be around people that don't have a growth mindset. And so now I just am not. So if you don't have that, if you don't think that way, I'm just not around you, bro. I don't know what you got going on, and I don't care. And I wish you well. I hope you get out of it, but fuck off.

[Eric Cason]

Yeah, I've, you know, it's taken me a while to learn it, but particularly family. Like, it's as much as, like, I. I really want, like, deep connecting conversation and for, like, us to understand each other and for them to, like, meet me where I'm at. They have, like, zero fucking interest in that. Like, they really want to talk about the weather. Like, anything that's like, level one, maybe level two, but, like, level three. Fuck no. And it took me a long time to, like, button up against that wall being like, what? Like, why aren't you guys turned on? Like, why don't, like, you know, and, like, Covid was, like, a great example of, like, trying to bring that stuff up and, like, lots of big conflict coming up. And it hurt me for a long time because I was like, why don't they want to understand me? Like, this is so difficult. I want to be loved in the way I want to be loved. And, like, I finally just kind of got to the place of, like, oh, like, this is their shit. They're incapable of it. And, like, the more I rock the boat, the more that they're going to resist it, Making capsize more likely. And, like, I just need to be okay with doing the level one and level two thing with them. And the truth is, I can. I can do the level 8, 9, and 10 shit with you guys. And, like, that's frankly, like, that's why I really fucking love the bitcoin community, is because, like, I can have real and sincere conversation where we actually think hard about shit and go deep and enjoy that. And, like, that's kind of what friends are supposed to be for family can be for, you know, just loving them for who them in. And, you know, I love my mom. Really great person. I'm never going to have a deep and thoughtful connecting conversation about the political nature of world and our reality with her. Gonna have a really great conversation about how beautiful the sky is. But, you know, that that's about as far as it can go and that's okay. And so I just, I really welcome people who are gonna go into this Thanksgiving ready to fist fight everybody, just like eat like a fucking marijuana brownie before that and just like enjoy staring at the vase or some shit. Like it's not worth fighting your family and their, their stupid ideas what they believe is right. Because others, like if you're a bitcoiner, like, it's pretty clear that the next cycles getting pumping right now. And so anybody who is even remotely smart in your family is going to come to you when Bitcoin's at $120,000 at Thanksgiving and being like, hey, you know, you like made like some money with this, right? And you can be like, oh yeah, I'm like really high. But yeah, I made some money with this. And they'll be like, could you, could you tell me a bit about that? And maybe that'll be your opening. Don't, don't expect it. But yeah, I'm pretty sure that with what the Trump team is up to, they're about to like front run destroying the entire financial system because that's like, that's kind of their M.O. they're like good with this money shit. And they all clearly hold bitcoin and they're clearly going to be appointing people. So look like I'm not telling you what to do, but like, if you like money, you should probably buy bitcoin and keep holding it for a while because I'm pretty sure it's going to keep going up for a while here. Although there is some fucking moron right now who's absolutely going to slam their hand in the door and be like going, going back to 50k. 58k.

[Walker]

No way.

[American Hodl]

The Bitcoin said it's not static. Bullshit. 58k stablecoin static, static system.

[Walker]

To be fair, I love the 58k meme and I am guilty of using it so much. But now I've also implemented the 158k meme because it looks almost the same to the, to the unseeing eye. You just see 58k, but, but there's.

[American Hodl]

A 158k, why not 358k?

[Walker]

Jesus. I had.

[American Hodl]

Why not 9, 58k, why not 1.258k, 5.8m?

[Walker]

You know, like, fuck it, let's, let's roll it up. So first of all, I appreciate you guys because you and I appreciate that we can have level 8 and 9 conversation. Maybe someday a level 10. I don't know how High these levels go. So, like, how the scale works. Exactly. But I appreciate that there exist people that we can have these kind of fucking talks with. Because you're right, it's not always within the family. Sometimes it is, and that's very fortunate. But like, if, if that's not you out there listening, like, that's okay too. Like, you know, that's why, that's why you're in Bitcoin, right? Because you can go meet with a bunch of other strange people who want to talk about how fucked up our monetary system is, like, ad nauseam and like, are super fucking down with that. And that's a beautiful thing. But I'm curious because, Eric, you mentioned just like the Trump team Mo being go in and kind of like fuck shit up a little bit in the, in the financial system. Do you think, do you think, okay, like, Trump is on board with that? Like, is Trump going to go full on and the Fed, like, is Ron Paul coming on here and we are fucking burning this thing down? Or is Trump, like, he's, I don't know about like the vibes you've gotten from, but he seems more measured lately. Like, maybe it's, you know, almost getting assassinated. Maybe it's just a little, you know, a couple extra years. Maybe It's Barron being 9 and a half feet tall standing next to him and he's like, you know what? I'm not the biggest guy in the room anymore. I don't know, like, where do you think we go? Where is Trump at on this? And like, do you think the team he's assembling is actually going to go in there and be like, no, we're going to, we're going to bring the Fed down?

[Eric Cason]

I think from the standpoint, it looks like that's a possibility. But, like, I am very, very deeply convinced that like, the deep state is absolutely and unequivocally in control. And there is no conceivable fucking way that anybody in any elected or any appointed position can like meaningfully stop any of this. Because, like, I can't really imagine the powers that be in the back room are like, oh, you guys, they like got the right people in the right position to do stuff. What are we going to do now? And they're like, dang, guess we lost. We just got to accept it. So, no, and I think Ron Paul and Elon Musk, all the people who get in the right position, they are absolutely going to try their best to do stuff. And then I'm pretty sure none of it's going to happen. Same thing. Totally holding my breath. That Trump keeps his word about free and Ross day one. You know, going to be mum on the word until then. If it doesn't happen, I'm not going to be shocked. If it does happen, I will be the first to give accolades to where they're due because that would be phenomenal. You know, my hope is that everybody who's really full all the Hopium of all this stuff will see the next two years play out. Very little will actually change in terms of it. Yeah. And that's when I'm going to launch my radical states rights movement to use the states to unilaterally fuck up the federal government.

[American Hodl]

Dude, let's talk about the Ross thing for a second because did anyone have more on the line yesterday than Ross Ulbricht? No. I mean, Ross Ulbricht's life hung in the balance. It was double life. Rot in a prison cell for all eternity until you die and are taken away in a casket. Or freedom in three months. Freedom in two and a half months. I mean, that's a fucking crazy, crazy thing that he had to live through. You know, the potential that either one of these outcomes, it was like everyone was saying it was a 50, 50 toss up between these outcomes and luckily we're in the good timeline. And, you know, I was hanging out with the production crew when I was at this thing last night. And basically they were asking me, like, why do you guys all care so much about Ross? And I said, listen, Ross's story is a miscarriage of justice and Ross didn't deserve double life. He did do something wrong. He did deserve some prison time. Like, serious. That's just how it is. I know, like, the anarcho capitalists would be like, no way, bro. But it's like, come on. I mean, we have a society that has rules. He broke the rules. Like, he does little time, but he's at this point in life, he has paid his. Whatever debt he owed to society has been more than paid. He just created a website. He never hired hitmen. All that is bullshit. The man who allegedly he hired to have killed, supports him, is a vocal supporter of Ross Ulbricht. I mean, you've been lied to about this case. The agents, the federal agents on the case were dirty.

[Eric Cason]

They were stealing all of them from different agencies. Like every single mother fucking federal agent in that goddamn agency stole money. It's fucking insane. And most of them got off the hook too. And this is what I'm so fucking angry about, is the hypocrisy of it.

[American Hodl]

Last time than Ross. Exactly. No, and I mean, what I'm saying is, like, this is a. This case is a miscarriage of justice, and Ross deserves to be free, and he will be free in two and a half months. I'm not one of these bitcoiners who's like, we'll see, bro. We'll see if Trump does it. Like, no, no, he's gonna be free. It's a campaign promise. We put up serious money and we went to bat for Trump, and now we're gonna get Ross out. And the reason it's important to us is what I told the production crew is because, yes, all those things are true, it's a miscarriage of justice, et cetera. But what it shows is that we are ascendant politically, that we matter, that we're important. Things weren't supposed to happen this way, and then they happen this way. The state condemned a man to slow death, double life imprisonment, and we said, no, you don't get to do that. We got to rewrite the rules of the game as the game was being played. And it shows that we don't have to just sit there and take it. I mean, imagine the timeline where bitcoin goes to zero. In that timeline, Ross rots in prison for the rest of his life. But we're in the good timeline where bitcoin is at 76k and Ross is free in two and a half months. And, I mean, it just shows that we are going to be players in the world. You're not going to be off in the woods with your cold card shoved up your ass. I mean, if you want to do that, like, that's fine. Like, get freaky. It's okay. Bitcoin is about freedom.

[Eric Cason]

You should really consider a ledger if you're doing that.

[American Hodl]

You know, cold card is very square. Listen, you want to shove it up your ass, you be my guest. Okay, but we're.

[Eric Cason]

I really need to make a butt plug that is specifically designed for this.

[Walker]

How has no one made that yet? That's my question.

[American Hodl]

We are going to be players in the world, and we're going to have political power, and we're also going to make some butt plugs. Okay, great.

[Eric Cason]

Butt plug. Please reach out.

[Walker]

We're thinking of spinning up a little. A little shop for them. They're going to be super nice. Hypoallergenic, of course. Really smooth on entry, not so much on exit, because you don't want that thing coming out necessarily right. Like, you got to keep it in there just to wrap that up.

[American Hodl]

I'm happy for Ross and I'm happy for us. I think this is a big moment in bitcoin's history. Ross being free is a big moment, you know.

[Eric Cason]

Well, and, and you know, I'm on the opposite side. I'm going to hold my breath till it happens. When it does, I'm, you know, that'll bring me back in the fold just like crazy crypto anarchist land. Like I might like move into like far right political activism or some shit, but it's really important to get that like we're an actual political force now and like, I really hope that we're going to start behaving like it and that there's going to be like a real, actual bitcoin contingency because like, I actually think in the next four years there's a real fucking shot of ending the Fed. And like, I, I don't think anybody inside the federal government will do it, but I do legitimately believe that like if we got 35 states to push through their state legislature legislation to like end the Fed, that that would get amended to the Constitution and like the federal government would have to like flip the out and figure out how to do that. And I think it's really important because like the federal government is so out of fucking control at this point in time. We, we really need to start figuring out new and different methodologies to change how that can happen. So I'm just excited to see all the change that's happening. And also like fucking 100k is like in play now, so it's going to be really exciting when we get there in like a year. Well, I've probably heard him from him before but like, I hope his 100k party is still going to happen somewhere.

[Walker]

Yeah, I mean, I don't like to, you know, talk about Price too much on this show because I'm not an open mouthed YouTube shill. But that being said, caveat, you know, it is like above 76. We're at like 76, 200 right now. That's just like kind of a trip, you know. And totally I agree with you that like as I was watching the Price last night again, I like, I've been on the river these last like four days. I've like checked Twitter a couple of times and I was like, no, that's, that's not really of interest to me. Like I'm out in fucking nature catching fish, hanging out with like my dad. Like that's what I want to. This is what I want to be doing right at this moment. And. But then I got back and of course I was like, yes, you know, like, bring it in. And then, you know, stayed up until 2am watching MSNBC, as one does. But like, you could, you could feel something was happening. And I think you can feel something is happening now. And I just wonder, like, does bitcoin, like, because I would say that bitcoin is. It is inherently partisan or. Excuse me, it is inherently political. It is not partisan, right? Yes, it is. Like money is always going to be political. We're talking about separating fucking money and state. Of course that is going to be political. It is not inherently partisan. It is only partisan if partisans make it partisan. And that's not to say the people that are pro bitcoin are the partisans who are making it partisan. It's the ones on the other side who are reactionary to it, right? So I'm just interested to see, like, I mean, fuck, like it's a red fucking wave. Like, Trump blew out the popular vote. He's got the mandate, right? He obviously won the electoral college. You've got a Republican majority in the House and the Senate. By all rights, they have no excuse not to do everything they claim they want to do, right? Like, there's no excuse.

[American Hodl]

By the way, the Democrats going after us and brought and broader crypto markets was such, in retrospect, such a massive unforced error on their part. There was no reason to make significant enemies of us. None. And all they did was suffer because of it. Now, like, I don't know how much we affected the election, but we affected it some non trivial amount, okay? And it just, it wasn't something they needed to do and they did it anyway because they were drunk with power. That's why they did it.

[Eric Cason]

I mean, they did it because like, they believe their own bullshit that they like they had literally pumped up their own ass intentionally where they're like, this is used for terrorism financing and it's, it's so all the bros can get away with tax. And like, it was all bullshit that they just repeatedly kept convincing themselves. Like, like the fucking Greenpeace nonsense. And like the, like, I feel so bad for the guy that's running that Twitter because like, like all he does is tweet something and is immediately like, provided all of the evidence of how fucking wrong he is. And like the other thing that's just so shameful is that like these people are supposed to actually like, give a fuck about the environment. And like, what's more important than making sure that we're actually getting clean hydro power from power plants that were going to be shut down. Otherwise, you know, like, what's more important to people in sub Saharan Africa who have never had access to fucking electricity and can't have clean water and now they can. Like, it's, it's just so disingenuous. And like, again, I would really hope that, you know, the Democrats would sit down and be like, wow, we like, we really fucked that one up. We should really, like, reconsider this. But I very, very strong doubts that that's gonna happen. And it's gonna be really interesting to see kind of what the, what comes out of it. But yeah, I have a very strong expectation that they are going to continue to double down until essentially they fracture the Democrat party into like, there's either going to be a renewed moderated Democratic movement or it's going to fracture out into like different parties. Either way, it's going to be fucking entertaining.

[Walker]

Can I say something controversial, guys?

[Eric Cason]

No.

[Walker]

I am, I am, I am glad Elizabeth Warren was reelected because honestly, she was, she was against what, John Deaton, right, who was like, yeah, he lost.

[American Hodl]

He had an uphill battle. She's very well funded in her state and Massachusetts is a liberal shithole.

[Eric Cason]

Where'd that money come from? That's really interesting.

[Walker]

But he was funded by crypto lobbyists. But no, the reason I'm happy that Elizabeth Warren won is because I would have missed her. I would have honestly missed reply guying her all the time when she says stupid fucking useless shit. Like that would have left a little bit of a hole in me and I don't know how I would have filled it. Like, I need something to butt up against. And like, Pocahontas is the best. She's just the best for that. Like, it's like when she talks about price gouging, I see an Elizabeth Warren price gouging tweet and I'm just like, yes, I know what I'm doing today. You know, like, it's nice to have that. And like, I also think to your point, Eric, like, she is going to. And to your point as well, Hodl, like unforced errors. She's going to continue to fracture the Democratic Party because, like one in fucking seven Americans owns bitcoin. Like, owns bitcoin. This is according to the study that Troy Cross did. There's probably a margin of error there. But even if it's one in fucking five Americans, that's already a shitload. And we are not even in like, number go up mania yet where people are like, I probably need some of that.

[American Hodl]

Yeah.

[Walker]

This is a growing coalition and to fight against it is just like, first of all, you're fighting against freedom and you're just fighting against people from all walks of life. It's not like these are just the crypto bros, are all these, you know, like, not every, you know, bitcoin bro is as fucking radical as Kaysen over here, you know? And I mean that in a, honestly, the most complimentary way possible. Just so you know, Eric, I appreciate that. Like, what the fuck are they fighting against? What are they anti? You're anti freedom. You're anti people being able to make decisions for themselves. But it's like, oh, like, it's like my body, my choice. Like, my fucking money, my choice. Fuck right off. Anyway, I was so glad she was reelected. That's it.

[American Hodl]

I was gonna say the same thing you said, which is that it's such a. It's such a bipartisan, like coalition, multiracial, like pluralistic. Like, I mean, bitcoin is a large tent. Like the Orange Party is the largest tent we have politically. And they did, they made a large mistake going after us because, you know, first of all, it's like, are you dumb? You're going after young millennials with money who are multi, like racially diverse. The is. Are you stupid? Like, what's wrong? It doesn't even make sense. It doesn't even compute. But anyway, listen, there was a referendum on these people last night. I feel confident that this worldview is going to be dealt a hearty blow and they're going to realize that there's a new player in town and it's the crypto lobby and the bitcoin lobby. And David Bailey, in some non trivial fashion, was responsible for freeing Ross Ulbricht from prison or will be responsible for freeing Ross Republic from prison and for getting Donald Trump elected. He made a significant mark dent on this election and he's the MVP of Bitcoin in 2024. Like, that goes to David Bailey, number one with a bullet. There's no one else that even came close this year. And I think it just reminds me, I was talking with David Zell about this last night, that you can just do things. You can just do things. Whatever you want to do, you can just do it. Just do it. Elon wanted to affect the election. He just went out and fucking rounded up a bunch of Amish people and drove them to the polls because the Amish can't drive themselves to the Polls. He was like, we will drive you to the polls. You hate the government, right? And the Amish were like, fuck yeah. They tried to shut down our raw milk and shit. And Elon was like, yeah, fuck that. We will drive you there. Let's all go vote. You can just do things. You don't have to wait for anybody. Nothing's decreed. Like, listen, fiat is a fucking disease of the mind. That's what it is. And every currency on earth that's not Bitcoin is fiat. Ethereum is fiat. Solana is fiat. Tether is fiat. They're all fiat, okay? And then obviously all the fiat currencies are fiat. But fiat is not just affecting the monetary supply and material goods like iPhones and shit. No, fiat affects you. It affects your mind. It affects the way you think. You think that the world is decreed to you from scribes on high. It's not. The world is built by people that get out and build the fucking world. So if you want to do something, just go do it. Get politically active if you want to be politically active. Build a business if you want to build a business. Build a family if you want to build a family. Build an estate if you want to build an estate. Go to Mars if you want to go to Mars. Just go do it. Do what you want to do. That is the bitcoin story. Not by decree. No one tells you to do it. You decree it. You fucking decree it. You go out and do what the fuck you're going to do in the world. That's what we're doing here in bitcoin.

[Walker]

A fucking men. I'm fucking riled up right now. You know.

[Eric Cason]

To elaborate on your point, like, this fucking disease has rotted out 95% of all of the creative potential of people everywhere. And it's great to see that that 5% is making the change for the other 90%. Like, what we're seeing being developed in this entire system is fucking phenomenal. And people are not asking for fucking permission anymore. And I really hope between what we're seeing in bitcoin and the renewal of this American spirit, that like. Like one of the things I didn't realize last night with, that I was so excited about when I started watching the bitcoin price go up and the markets go up, I was like, oh, yeah. Like there's this entire economic engine that's sighing with relief now that they're not going to get out of existence by a socialist government that fucking hates them and that maybe there's real potential to actually create Dynamic change. Like, I actually. And I think it's really interesting that people like this tariff thing's gonna destroy anything like that. This tariff thing's gonna supercharge the fucking economy. Like, it's gonna turn out that like people that are importing cheap shit from China and they have to pay twice as much, they're gonna go, you know, maybe I'm gonna buy the American made thing where I'm not gonna have to pay twice as much for the same thing, you know, and like, that's a really great fucking thing. And I understand all the economic arguments about how tariffs work and otherwise, but like, let's be clear, cheap shit from China that's subsidized by slavery, like, it's not good for fucking America. You know what's good for America? Shit made in America that paid American people that give American salary so that they can spend money in America. And like, not to get on the nationalist thing, but like, the other thing is like, the world fucking needs Americanism right now. Like, shit is fucked up and there needs to be a renewal of this American spirit that pushes out into the world that, you know, is what 1776 was about, which was a global revolution that then swept through Europe because they're like, yo, Europeans, look, we just like fucked up the British Empire and we earned our own rights by fighting these. Would you like that? They're like, yeah, this like monarchy shit is bullshit. Let's, let's fight. And I hope that we're going to see a renewal of that same spirit, that we're going to fight back against our federal government and their surveillance in the deep state, and that we're going to push that shit out into Europe and that the Europeans are going to be like, yeah, you know what? It turns out getting ass fucked by our government and getting global surveillance through a CBDC is bullshit. Let's fight these motherfuckers. And I would love to see more than anything see a sincere German nationalist movement renew itself instead of them living in their fucking shame about Nazism and like, get that, like, that shit's over, guys. And that like Germans, you actually have some like really great shit about your culture that if you guys can protect in a meaningful way, very similar to Americans and still be able to be inclusive with that ideal, like there's something great to be done. But like, living in all this shame about like, ooh, like we're a bunch of racist Nazis because we believe German culture is great is the same kind of bullshit that they're trying to tell us about. Because you believe in America and what America means. It doesn't mean that you're a far right racist. It means that you're a fucking American that believes in the real values and ethics of what it means to be American. So, you know, fuck this Fiat bullshit. Fuck CBDCs. And it's time for us to really start rebuilding in a meaningful and thoughtful way on top of a bitcoin standard, because that's really an American standard.

[American Hodl]

Fuck yeah.

[Walker]

Fucking it. Fuck yeah, man. Wait, can we talk about Europeans for a second? Because, like, wait, wait just for one second, because have you noticed that the only people more confused about what happened in the US Election than the Democrats are the Europeans. They're like, hold on. What do you mean? Don't you understand? He's mean and bad. And how sad is this? These Americans, how did. Like, it's mind blowing. And then you're like, God, like, to your point, Eric. Like, yeah. Like, I feel like sometimes I went through the stage, like, stage in my life where I was like, I love America. I love America because I love the fucking American idea, and I love the American people, and I love the possibilities that the existence of the American idea allows for people in this country, because it allows people to fucking create and build and do meaningful things. But I went through a stage where I was like, you know, this is on my. My bitcoin journey, where I'm also like, well, but the military industrial war machine, the. The fiat monetary colonialism that's perpetuated by the IMF and the World bank, like, and the Federal Reserve. This is. This is bad. Like, and then I got to the point where naturally, like, five seconds later, I was like, yeah, but that's not America. Like, that's fucking institutions. That is US Government institutions. Those are institutions of theft and destruction and death. America is a fucking idea. And it's the people who hold that idea up and use it as their fucking torch to bring light into darkness. And that is what I think people can get behind. And I think you should be able to fucking get behind that. Like, I don't give a fuck what political party you fucking identify with. Like, this week or forever in your entire life. Like, there. I don't know if you guys have heard anybody say this before, but there is no red, there is no blue. There is the state, and there is you. Yes, there are meaningful differences in political parties. Obviously, there's a difference between what Kamala's administration would have been and what Trump's will be. But ultimately, we are not a divided people. We are a people who are united around the idea that America is fucking amazing. That idea is fucking amazing. And we are going to be fucking damned if we will let the state usurp that idea for its own fucking death and destruction and theft. And I think, I hope that more people can get around that and realize that, look, we're all on the fucking same side. There are two sides. It is the people, the independent individuals and it is the state. There is no other side. Like there's no, there's no other sides. You can color the horse a different color, but like it's still the state. Granted, again, let me caveat. There are some differences, especially you get down to local governments, there's a lot of difference. But like we have so much more, not to sound cheesy, we have so much more that brings us together than, than divides us. And what brings us together is the idea that America is special. And if it wasn't for America, Europe would be still have been from those fucking German Nazis, actual Nazis. Like we have literally pulled Europe's own head out of its ass so many times and yet they still look at us like, well, these, you know, uncouth barbarians. It's like, you know, fucking right we're uncouth and we're fucking barbarians. And there's a reason that you called us when you fucking got your panties in a twist and started murdering like millions of people because you couldn't handle it on your own. You pansies. Like, I love, for any Europeans listening, I fucking love you because you're listening to this and you obviously have a set of balls or maybe not balls. You know, you may be a lady European, but like America is uniquely positioned to drive massive change in the world because of the American idea.

[American Hodl]

That's by the way, the thing that's beautiful about America, the American ideal, what is it, right? Like people might not know, especially if you're from Europe. The American ideal is I am the king of my own castle. I am the captain of myself, okay? I do not have to do anything that you want me to do. I am in charge of me. And if what I'm doing doesn't harm anyone, I should be completely allowed and I'm well within every right, my God given rights to continue doing that thing. That is a new idea in the world. It's a baby idea. It's only 250 some odd years old and not quite 250 yet. It's only about 250 years old and we have to protect that idea because that's the most important idea in the history of the world thus far. And every time I see Americans exercise it and say, wait a second. Sometimes Americans get caught up in this thing where they're listening to people they shouldn't be listening to. They listening to the television. Rachel Maddow or whoever, Joy Reed, Whoopi Goldberg. And then they. They go, wait a second. What? They just wake up and they go, why have I been listening to this bitch? The fuck am I doing listening to this person? I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want.

[Eric Cason]

No, I'm doing what I want. All right, well, Hodl's out now because he did what he wanted. These are really important to hit the.

[American Hodl]

Computer, but it's okay. It's fine.

[Walker]

I thought that was the dramatic effect.

[Eric Cason]

Yeah, these are really important ideals and, like, you know, to reemphasize everything that you said, Walker. Like, it took me a long time on my own journey as an anarchist that like. Like, I'm an. I'm an anarchist and I'm American. Like, I fundamentally believe that Americans on a whole, like, we have all the same value sets. Like, nobody wants to hurt other people. Nobody wants to be hurt. People want to respect each other's right to private property. People want to see innovative and creative solutions and, like, let people be freaky and do what they are. And so, like, I see reactions on both sides. It's like, look, like, if you want to be your gay transgender lizard or like, whatever the fuck you want to identify as, like, that's fucking great. Good for you. Like, do not come into the schools and try to teach kids that shit. Like, I'm unintention that. In fact, like, why the fuck are we doing the school thing? Like, if you look at the fucking Department of Education, you know what every single standard has been measured to do each year it goes fucking down. That's what it does. It teaches kids to be fucking stupid little robots that can't think for themselves. Like, it. I find it deeply disturbing when I. When my son has friends that are in public school come over and like, how fucking remedial they are and how much they. They don't. There's a certain creativity that they really lack that I find fucking disturbing, you know? And also on the same side, like, just because people want to be weirdos and freaks don't mean that we have to hate on them and remove their right to be fucking weirdos and freaks. It's just like, don't. In the same way that, like, I'm not Going to put my shit in your face. Don't put your shit in my face and don't try to use public institutions to do that. There's. There's no fucking need. Same thing. Like, I have no fucking interest in deporting people from this country just because they disagree with me on different principles. Like, we need to learn to live and fight peace and have a radical moderism between us. Because without that there, like that, that's what America is all about, is about being able to figure out how do we live with these ideals that allow for us all to flourish despite how different we are. You know, like, Europeans, like, take a cue from us. Like, you know, like, we, we figured out how to make this shit work. You guys are trying to model the same thing. But to be very clear, like, what you guys are doing with the European Central bank and the EU and shit, like, this is not going to end well for you guys. And so I really encourage. And like, I've noticed this more coming from Germans specifically. Like, you guys need to redouble in your own nationalism and so far of that, like, you guys are actual independent countries and you need to stop letting this fucked up institution that got created by a bunch of bureaucrats that told you that everything was going to get better with it. You know, like, I have an uncle that's lived in Berlin since the 1970s, and he knows the conversion of when they went from the mark to the Euro fucked everybody over super hard. And that's how it is kind of universally. You guys should really consider taking back national sovereignty, destroying the European Central bank. And probably, you know, that look like the fact that the thing is ran by an actual financial criminal who has been found guilty of financial crimes, that's pretty fucking ridiculous. And it's pretty ridiculous that you guys tolerate this bullshit being shoved down your throat from Brussels. So I really hope that you guys are gonna light shit on fire. Cause like, when you guys commit yourself to burning shit down and like, throwing shit at people and other stuff, you guys are really good at it. Like, like lean into that. Like, keep, keep doing more of that. Like, stop, stop with this other fucking nonsense. Because you know you guys are going to get something pretty nasty out of it if you guys keep tolerating this bullshit.

[American Hodl]

You know what I think the difference between the European mind and the American mind is? Is that in Europe for, you know, thousands of years, if you talk back to the nobility, they could kill you with impunity, right? And in America one day we took a look at the nobility and we were like, fuck you. And we just killed everybody, bro. That's different starting points, you know. Inception.

[Eric Cason]

Yeah. Fun fact is that there is an actual amendment to the United States Constitution that is still active to be ratified by states that if you are given a title of nobility in America, you will be stripped of all political rights and positions. I think it was the. Because there's like three outstanding articles that. That could be ratified by states, but, like, aren't. Like, another is about, like, child labor. The other one's article the first, which I've had another great radical plan of like, forcing state legislatures to ratify Article the first to be. And it's called that because it was the first article to ever be. That passed through the congressional approval process. And it went to states to get approved, but it was never approved. And what article I stipulates is that no representative to the federal government shall ever represent any more than 50,000 people at a time. And to be clear, if that passed today, that would mean that the House of Representatives would be like 7,000 people or some shit like that. So that would be really fun if we, like, got states to pass it just to fuck up the federal government. Because this is my big thing that I want, not only for Americans, but for Europeans and all people everywhere, is that, like, I believe very, very strongly it is about states, providences and counties against their unified federal government. Like, if you look at what's going on in Spain right now after the crisis that happened in Valencia and how much the federal government is absolutely fucking those people over, this is where the real war is at. So I'd like to see more radicalism of states rights against federal governments across the board. And I think that would really help solve a lot of problems.

[Walker]

Fuck yeah. Eric, you mentioned something earlier about, like, just speaking of states rights, that if. If what was it, 35 states were to basically resolve internally, like, as independent states, that we should end the Fed, that the federal government would basically need to scramble. Can you elaborate on that a little bit more for those of us who are less constitutionally literal?

[Eric Cason]

A hypothetical way to be able to ratify the United States Constitution directly using state legislatures only. Nothing has to go through the federal government and it is not supposed to have any oversight. This has never happened in American history because every single time that this method has been used to amend the Constitution, when it's gotten within two or three states, the federal government has essentially flipped the fuck out and Congress has passed that amendment to the United States with the same language directly. So that this was all circumnavigated there. There was a Supreme court decision in 1908 that essentially said if states tried to do this, we wouldn't recognize it. But, like, this is all about creating constitutional crisis because the 10th Amendment is very explicit and that any powers that are not enumerated to the federal government directly in the Constitution are reserved for states alone. So the whole idea would be essentially be go state by state, get the exact same language passed saying that we are calling on an Article 5 convention to amend the United States Constitution to end the Federal Reserve, and that the federal government shall have no oversight whatsoever around the issuance of a currency. And in theory, it could pass. For me, the big goal is to get it past 33 states or something. Federal government's gonna freak out. You're probably gonna have the judicial branch being like, no, this is illegitimate. There's no way to amend the Constitution without the federal government. We can be like Texas. What do you think about that? They're trying to say that your. The sovereignty of your state and what you guys decide isn't okay. Is that, is that something you agree with? How do you feel about that? Nevada, Wyoming? Is this, is this okay with you guys? Because for me, the big crisis that happened in America, which is where fiat money started in America, was during the Civil War. And as much as everybody likes to suck Abraham Lincoln's dick and celebrate him as being a really great guy, like, good job with like ending slavery, but like, you like, really fucked up a lot of other stuff with what you did in that. Not to mention that like, explicitly creating an amendment to the United States Constitution that says that other people can't have slaves, but the state itself can have slaves is pretty fucked up. So with that, I really encourage everybody look into the Article 5 ratification process. I really have a boner for the idea using this to like, fuck up the federal government across the board. Because to me, this is actually about a radical evolution of the political process that I think federal politics is fundamentally broken. And if there's a way to lateralize a national movement that uses only states and state legislatures to start amending the Constitution or even calling for an Article 5 convention to rewrite the Constitution on a whole, which is also specifically reserved by Article 5 in the US Constitution, there's actually an opportunity for us to roll back radical federal power, destroy the deep state, and renew the American dream throughout the globe by essentially creating the American dream with the federal government and the deep state strip from it. So that's kind of my insane idea. You know, let's have a couple lawyers and legal scholars come in here and tell me how I'm fucking insane or wrong or maybe even right. But as far as I know, this is an actual thing that could happen. It's just been kind of buried in history for a long time.

[Walker]

Hodl, your thoughts?

[American Hodl]

I mean, listen, I'm an Article 5 maxi as well. Eric has explained it to me multiple times. I just, you know, I think like, in practical terms, I just, I just don't think we're going to be able to do that. Yeah, it'd be cool. It'd be cool if it happened. You know, I would be for it.

[Walker]

Let's, let's talk about some practical terms then because. Okay, I want to, want to get your guys take on this whole bitcoin strategic reserve thing. Senator. Okay, so we, we remember at the bitcoin conference in Nashville, Trump gave what I think was honestly incredible stand up performance. Like, that dude's a dude. He riffs like, he's like, you cannot argue with the fact that the dude can fucking. What does he call? He calls the weave, right? You know, he riffs. It's impressive. It's very like, delivery man. So I got go save the delivery man. But. And he talked kind of like, we're going to keep the bitcoin that we have. You know, we're not going to sell any of it. He didn't like explicitly say, we are going to start printing fiat to acquire bitcoin. He said he would protect the industry, though. He said a lot of positive things. Then as everybody is leaving the stage, like after he finished, Lummis comes up and is like, I have a fucking bill right here. Like, I have a bill for the US to establish a strategic bitcoin reserve. And like, I felt bad because again, like, people are like yelling like everyone's leaving the thing. And I'm sitting there like, she just like, this is fucking actually, actually news that Lummis is like, I've got a fucking bill for this. She's been on top of it since then. What do you think is the most likely scenario that's going to play out as far as the establishment of a strategic reserve? Is this something that like Trump is going to be all for? Like, once he gets a little more knowledge of it, like, where do you think we're going with this?

[American Hodl]

The way that Trump said it on stage initially is wrong and can't happen. So the bitcoin that had been seized, you know, by whomever, whichever government authority sees them, then there are multiple government authorities that have seized them over time. They belong to somebody, they have owners. Right. So like most recently the Bitfinex hack, there was $4 billion worth of Bitcoin or something that was seized by the US Government. But that bitcoin all belongs to people and it has to go back to them. So you can't use it for your national strategic stockpile. Right. But in general, I think the idea of a national strategic stockpile is something that is going to happen one way or another. I think it's inevitable. Whether it goes on the central bank's balance sheet or whether it's put into the hands of the executive branch, I'm not sure. But America is going to acquire a large swath of bitcoin at some point. I think there's a. The most interesting thing about it is the prisoner's dilemma of the nation state level game theory around who goes first. So if you go first, you're the most advantaged. Right. But for some reason I don't think this is widely known and so nobody's gone first yet. Or maybe it's because we don't have younger people who understand these things or have game this out. Is Trump's administration and administration where we can do those things? I think Maybe, I mean, J.D. vance is a bitcoiner, Vivek is a bitcoiner, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Is a Bitcoiner, Tulsi Gabbard is a bitcoiner, Elon Musk is a bitcoiner. Trump owns a little bit of bitcoin. He's dabbled in some crypto bullshit. He has his own shitcoin. So yeah, I mean, there is a potential that it could happen this time around. I think the most important or the most interesting thing to me is the game theory between other nation states. And then the thing I was going to mention is to some degree, I think the bitcoin that's in the public markets is a honeypot for the US government. So MSTR is a honeypot for the US government. The ETFs are the public companies that have bitcoin on treasury, like Tesla. So those things are things that can be nationalized in a moment's notice if needed. But we're not on a bitcoin standards. So the government doesn't need to seize your bitcoin yet. If Fiat starts to collapse, they may need to seize your bitcoin, they may seize your bitcoin. They'll never need to do it. I mean, they just will do it. Right. And so, yeah, I think that's those are my high level thoughts around everything.

[Walker]

Do you, I assume when you talk about a first mover advantage, you're discounting El Salvador in this particular instance because they do not print their own currency because they are dollarized.

[American Hodl]

Well, it's also too small. It's just too small. El Salvador is a very poor country. They're doing, listen, they're doing great. They're on the upswing, but they're not a player in the world. They don't mean anything. Like, I mean El Salvador is a tiny nothing country with no resources. Like, I love what's going on down there now.

[Walker]

For now, let's listen.

[American Hodl]

Yeah, they're very small. If you looked at them on the map, it's like this big. It's. Yeah, it's Russia, China, America, France, Germany. Those are the countries that one of them needs to go first, G7.

[Walker]

So I mean like Russia has been shifting some of its stances around bitcoin mining and bitcoin more generally recently. I mean, do you think that like, that is like we're going to see a lot more of that? Because Russia was for a while very like, no, we are not a fan of this. I mean it's not the freest country in the world, let's say. And so freedom money tends to be a little bit, you know, it's like oil and water, like they don't mix well. Right. But clearly, clearly they're realizing the geopolitical significance of bitcoin, which is still sitting at like, I mean, I don't know what the market cap is right now after, you know, we're, we're pamping but like, you know, we're, we're not over 2 trillion yet. We're at like what, below a trillion and a half? Like 1.5. Which is, which is fucking nothing. Like in the global grand scheme of things. Like we are still fucking early smaller than Apple Computer. Yeah, bitcoin did just pass meta though, right? Probably, I think like today, like I believe so, but I don't know, a.

[Eric Cason]

Piece of shit company is worth one and a half trip. Like, what the fuck is wrong with this world? I'm sorry, like that, that is upsetting that so many fucking morons are on that goddamn surveillance platform giving away their information towards somebody that fucking hates them.

[American Hodl]

Instagram is very popular with the hoes, Eric. Very popular.

[Eric Cason]

I know.

[Walker]

And Facebook, just the boomers. Like, I think boomers are the only ones left on Facebook. I'm honestly convinced. Which is hilarious because the boomers were the same ones Being like this, this, these Facebooks are going to melt your brains. And now they're like, you know, like, this picture of Donald Trump and Jesus is incredible. Like, when did they take this? This is amazing. Like, I don't think boomer. Boomers have really bad AI detection skills also. That's a slight digression. But it leaves them very vulnerable to manipulation, I think, which is, it's also kind of cute and endearing. Like, you know, God bless you, you bought your house for two raspberries and now you're a multi millionaire.

[Eric Cason]

You know, in all honesty, like, I see the next decade is like, there's going to be this really. It's funny because I remember I was at Burning Man, I had taken a bunch of acid and I was talking to a younger friend about this and I like went on this crowd crazy diatribe, almost like, yeah, in 30 years we're gonna have like a youth fascist movement that's just gonna be all about like stripping the boomers of their property and like sending them off to the prison camps for liquidation just because people are gonna be so angry at the way that they feel like they were robbed and stolen from. So like, I don't know. It's very similar to that Junsis podcast where he talked to that, that young scammer. Like, he was amazing. He was pretty indifferent to the way he was ripping people off. And like, in all honesty, like, young, young people have like a pretty good point. Like, yeah, like if an AI boomer, if a boomer can't tell the difference between like Donald Trump and an AI bot and you can rip him off doing that, like, why shouldn't you? Like, yeah, he, he made his millions of dollars from watching his house inflate, you know, because of how fucked up the monetary system is. So why shouldn't you just engage in an outright graft? I'm not saying that that's right in any meaningful way. Like, it's an honest and open ended question that frankly, I really struggle with like meaningfully answering to them because, like, yeah, this system has absolutely fucked you and robbed you and there is no meaningful way that you are going to crawl out of the hole that you've been forced to live in. So like, I don't, I don't know what you can really do to try to protect yourself other than get yourself on a bitcoin standard, but you probably shouldn't be robbing people because that's fucked up.

[American Hodl]

Do you think that's true though? Because, like, didn't you feel that way when you were 18? 19. Because I did. I felt like the boomers had pulled up the ladder. They got rich selling houses back and forth to each other. We were never gonna be able to do the same thing, et cetera, et cetera. And then God was just like, boom, here's. Here's digital coins, bitch. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. I'm richer than these guys could have ever dreamed, you know, So, I mean.

[Eric Cason]

For me, personally, like, something on the.

[American Hodl]

Horizon, you know, for me personally, yeah.

[Eric Cason]

But, like, I. And like, this is one of the things I always struggle with is that, like, we're in an extremely unique position, you know, across. Like, that's one of the reasons I didn't just, like, take the money and run is that, like, I feel a real obligation towards speaking to the very real power that this has to, like, right the economy in a meaningful way again. And with that being said, like, if I was 20 years old, looking at the economy right now, like, I would very sincerely be trying to build a career as probably both a drug dealer and a scammer, just because I'd look at the world and be like, why the fuck should I participate in any of this goddamn non. Like, you want me to fork out $400,000 to get a bachelor's degree while you got that for free? Like, why the. Shouldn't I just set fire to everything and watch it burn? Because what do I have to win in this system? Like, oh, oh, like, I. I can work for 30 fucking years so I can get a down payment on a home that then I'll spend the next 30 fucking years trying to pay off, scraping by. Like, I think shit is really, really fucked up. And I think the only reason that kids aren't outraged is because they're so dopamine addicted to the scrolling that they can't even pull their head far enough out of the phone to stop and look around and go, gee, shit's really fucking bad. But that terrifies them, so they look back at the phone and keep scrolling. So I think shit's kind of sad right now, but, you know, like, I. I hope I'm wrong and that it's not actually that dark out there, but from the. From the young people that I speak to, like, there isn't a rage about it. There's, like, a very real defeat that, like, they have been beaten down into a cage that, like, they're just doing their best to figure out how to be in. So while I do agree that I did feel that way when I was younger, Like, I very sincerely feel like I just, like, found the fucking glitch in the system. And I remember, like, picking it up and being like, there's no fucking way that, like, magic Internet money is gonna become the global standard of the future and, like, make a difference in the 2024 presidential election. And the funniest thing is, is that, like, there was no political conversation about bitcoin, in my opinion, up until about 2016. Like, there were. There was no conceivable difference. You know, like, crypto didn't even exist on a whole. There was a bunch of shitcoin copies, like litecoin and feather coin and shit. But it was only with the premiere of Ethereum that. That bitcoiners were like, hang on. Like, we're trying to, like, make a kind of money that you can't fuck with. And they're like, yeah, like, I thought. I thought this was the whole thing that we just, like, make up clown coin and, like, make a bunch of money. And I was like, oh, I think we have, like, different ethics here. And they're like, huh? So, like, you don't want any clown coin? And I was like, no. Good luck with that, though.

[American Hodl]

No, I mean, you know, I think that. Okay, so one thing is, did you see the scammers who got caught for 250 million? They hit up a Genesis creditor for 250 million. Did you see that story?

[Eric Cason]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Wasn't this a while ago that they just. You know, it was like he had like, fucking, like 2fa, like through text or some shit. And they.

[American Hodl]

They posed as. I think they posed as Genesis or so. I can't remember how the scam worked. But anyway, like, they got $250 million in Bitcoin off of this guy. And it wasn't that long ago. It was like six months ago or something. And then what did they do? They went out to the clubs in Miami and la and they started buying onlyfans girls Birkin bags and Lamborghinis and whatever. And my favorite text message from the thread is, by the way. And then the FBI caught them two months later. Because everybody who's ever seen Goodfellas knows you don't go out and buy a fucking Pink Cadillac Day 1. Are you fucking retarded? Robert De Niro is going to whack you. Okay?

[Eric Cason]

Kids don't watch oldies anymore.

[American Hodl]

They don't watch.

[Walker]

Yeah, the answers are all there. They gave you the answers.

[American Hodl]

He bought a pink Lambo for a girl that is in Goodfellas. The guy does that and then he gets whacked anyway.

[Walker]

Also, like, she's not going to bang you either way, bro.

[Eric Cason]

Like, that's like the most beta fucking move you can make.

[Walker]

Seriously, dude.

[American Hodl]

So there's a text message from the girl and he goes, hey, what's up? I bought you a fucking pink Lambo, Urus. You want it? Let's be friends, whatever. And she's like, lol, I have a boyfriend. You know? And it's like, dude, you are gonna get ass raped in federal prison for the next 10 years. And you couldn't even get the girl to sleep with you after you bought her a fucking Lamborghini. You know why? It's because when you earn money that way, girls know. They know that you're a fucking loser. They can feel it. They can sense it, right? And so, like, she didn't want to have anything to do with you. So it's like, you. Would you get out of the. What did you get out of the score, bro? You went to fucking Rodeo Drive and wore some gay Louis Vuitton shit for a little bit and we're in the nightclub fucking sipping on fucking Casa Migo, Fucking Don Julie, whatever the fuck. Like, what? That's nothing. Not to nothing, bro. Come on.

[Eric Cason]

But, like, if you want to, like, get rich and make a bunch of money to like, get all the hot bitches, like, I got news for you. Like, it's not. It's not going to work in any meaningful way. And, like, you're actually going to find yourself in like a super bitch beta position where you're going to be like, huh? Like, I just, like, drove this girl in my Porsche over to this guy's house that she's like, not. This isn't my boyfriend.

[American Hodl]

It's just her trainer, dude. It's just her trainer, dude.

[Walker]

Pilates instructor. It's cool, man.

[American Hodl]

The only guy who can work her glutes. Right, bro, It's.

[Walker]

I'm gonna.

[Eric Cason]

You know, she needs me to pick her up in a half hour, so I'm just. I'm gonna hang out at this coffee shop just because I wonder why she's doing only a half hour. The Pilates, though.

[Walker]

Strange. Doesn't seem like enough burn.

[American Hodl]

No, dude, it's. It's more intense sweat, dude, if you do it that way, that's what.

[Eric Cason]

And look like the. This is all part of the general nihilism that's playing out because, like, when you get. When you get that money, when you get money that easily, that quickly through doing dumb shit like scamming like, it. You're not gonna, like, stop and be like, whoa, like, I finally got the lotto ticket to get out of here. Like, I'm gonna buy a couple laundromats and maybe like, you know, like a driving range and a couple other places that can really generate some cash flow for me. No, you're gonna do like a bunch of retarded shit like that and you're gonna blow the money. And like, this is one of the things I love the most about bitcoin is like, look, bit, like, bitcoin doesn't solve cash flow problems. Or if, like, you don't have any meaningful, like, model that you're operating from the world from. Like, if. If you can't save money, like, you will not have any fucking bitcoin. But, like, if you're somebody who's like, thoughtful and saving money and you like a 401k and you've like, played their game and gotten fucked by that, like, bitcoin's gonna be hugely helpful for you because, like, now you're actually gonna have a, like, savings that, like, does the thing it supposed to do. So good on you. And also, like, I'm sorry for all the younger kids that are getting by this system that hates them. Like, you really should be on only a bitcoin standard. And if you're not, like, I. I would love to hear your solution on why we're dumb. And you have the solution because as far as I can tell, you're going to work at a Starbucks for the next 30 years and live in your mom's basement. And like, maybe, maybe if you want a family, you'll have like a choice wawa or something. Like, look, I got two dogs right now. These motherfuckers eat nobody's business. So get a really small dog that you don't need to feed a lot of food to.

[American Hodl]

You know what, though? It's all mentality, truly. It's like, people don't. When you talk about having children and caring about yourself for the future and making money and how making money is a good thing, younger people are just straight up confused, right? And to us, that's like, that's the default that we grew up in. Those are our values. And. Yeah, but younger people are like, what is this, some sort of like, trad, like, trad Chad movement thing, dude? And you're like, what? This is called being a normal person, retard. What are you talking about? Yeah, because it's so, like, they haven't heard it. They've been being. Dude, if you go to public school. You have been being lectured by cat ladies eight hours a day for fucking 15 years. Okay? Like, and they have, like, fucking unicorn fairy tattoos on them and stuff. And they're like, donald Trump is a racist. That's what you've been dealing with, okay? So you come out of that, and then Andrew Tate's like, if you want to be a fucking man, you go have a fucking Bugatti. And then you go, fuck, this is fucking speaking to me, dude. Right? Like, whereas when we were young, that was just, like, common sense. I was like, yeah, sports cars and hot chicks. Like, that's what we.

[Walker]

Like, nobody needs to tell you that, dude.

[Eric Cason]

Like, yeah, I feel really bad for younger people, like, particularly like, if you're, like, a young guy going through puberty and, like, you want to, like, go talk to this girl, but you're all nervous because you've watched all this, like, cancel culture shit. Like, now you're too terrified to ever go talk to her. And now, like, you haven't talked to any girls in your whole life, and you want to, but you can't. Like, you feel like total fucking wiener. And then, like, somebody's like, well, if you feel like a wiener, and, like, being a man's really hard. Like, maybe you're a woman. And now you're like, maybe I am a woman. And, like, it's fucked up. It's really wrong. And, like, a lot of times these poor kids just need somebody to be like, yeah, like, you need to go talk to the woman. She could possibly, like, get really upset and sue you or some shit, but chances are she's just gonna think you're kind of weird and you'll feel uncomfortable and walk away, you know, being blown out. And, like, that's okay. That. That's part of life. It's okay when a woman rejects you. It doesn't define you as a human being.

[American Hodl]

I'm not supposed to say this, but if you're a teenage boy, go out and get a little drunk and do donuts in a parking lot. Okay. I'm not supposed to say that. You probably shouldn't do it.

[Walker]

It's great advice. It's terrible advice, but it's great advice.

[American Hodl]

You should probably do it. You know what I mean? In an empty parking lot. Empty. Don't go on the road. Just some donuts.

[Walker]

And honestly, if. If you live in the mid. Yeah. And if you live in the Midwest, like, wait until, like, you've got a little bit of snow there. Wait until it's a little bit Slick. It's much safer to do the donuts when your wheels are actually sliding versus you're like burning rubber. So that. See, we're tempering the donut advice with some good Midwestern, you know, logical advice there. You know, I think. And hold on. I know you've got a. You've got a hard stop coming up soon. I think we may need to do an entire other show about the fact that. You know who hates homeschooling and who has had homeschooling illegal for a long time?

[American Hodl]

Germany.

[Walker]

Germany. Thank you. I appreciate. You knew where I was going with that. And you know who implemented that? It was the fucking Nazis. Why did they implement the fact that you can't. It is illegal for you to homeschool your kids, for you to raise and instruct your kids at home, because they wanted to fucking control the narrative and control your kids and indoctrinate them and make them good little fucking Hitler's youth Nazis. And then we can go back a little bit further to the Prussian system of education, which is like, what kind of was the genesis of the, you know, Nazi system, which is we want to create great little worker bees and great little soldiers, and the only way we can do that is if we have control of them from the first time they're able to fucking formulate a word until they are of an age where it's appropriate to send them off to fucking work until they die or fight until they die. I digress a little bit. But the point is that if you don't like homeschooling, you're a Nazi. And I mean that literally, not like the everyone's a Nazi thing. Like, you're literally agreeing with what the Nazis wanted. So congratulations, you're a literal Nazi, not a figurative Nazi. That's. I just wanted to get that off my chest a little bit, guys. As a homeschooled guy myself, who then went to public school because my parents said, it's your fucking decision. Do what you want to do. They didn't swear at me at that time. They just said, it's your decision. But I added the fucking. But that was a trip. Getting into public school and realizing I thought I was going to be real stupid. That was like my big worry where I was like, mom and dad, I think I should go to public school. Like, what if I'm not as smart as the other kids? They're always. All my friends that I play sports with are always doing homework and all this extra work. Like, they've got to be way ahead of Me. And they're like, okay, that's your decision. You can decide to do that. But like, you've got to, you know, like it's your, it's your choice. So anything that comes with it's your, you know, your responsibility. Okay? And then I got to school and I was like, oh my God, everybody is fucking stupid. Holy shit. They are catering to the lowest common denominator. And this is a fucking joke. And I'm not even like that smart. Like I was smart enough to be a valedictorian in like kind of a bumble fuck you town. But that's like, you know, like you're the, you're the skinniest kid at fat camp. You know what I mean? Like it's like, okay, like nice, nice job. But like you're still fat.

[Eric Cason]

Like all these kids from your high school listening, right? I'll be like, hey.

[American Hodl]

I. And he sniffed it. I thought we were friends.

[Walker]

I knew some fucking great fucking people. And there were also some great fucking teachers in there who, who actually were like, fuck this administrative bullshit. I'm just gonna actually teach these kids. They were also the teachers always getting in trouble with the administration for like, you're not following the curriculum, you know, like, but. And like I fucking love the small town that I grew up in. Cause there are fucking great people there. The point is that the public school system did no one any favors. And you know what? You just don't fucking need it, man. You should do like an hour or two of school a day and you'll be fucking good. That's all I did. And then I went and started fires. Like not pyro fires, but like I like to start controlled fires. Who doesn't? You know what I mean? That's part of. And if you're a young guy listening to this and you've never just gone and started a fire, hey, go and start a fire. Because no self respecting woman will marry you unless you can start a fire.

[Eric Cason]

Like and do it on a metal trash can though. Or like some, somewhere that you're not going to start forest fire.

[Walker]

You know, like smoking again, not pyromaniac fires. Start controlled fires, learn how to control them and be a responsible member of society who knows how to make flame. Like fucking, hey, that's the only reason that we started drinking bone marrow that was actually cooked and had our brains grow. And you want to spit on that? I don't think so. I've digressed a little bit, but it felt like I needed to digress a little bit to get us off track enough for Hodl for me to allow you to make a graceful exit here. How much more time you got? You got time for one last.

[American Hodl]

I got thought, yeah, I got like five more minutes. I can do five minutes.

[Walker]

Okay, okay, do it. First, I just want to say thank you to everybody who tuned in on this Noster only live stream. Fuck YouTube, fuck livestream on Twitter, fuck wherever else you can livestream. Like Twitch. I've never used it, but I hear the kids do all these sats that you guys have sent, which is almost 50,000 sats, which is awesome. I'm going to send them all to open sats and provide receipts. So thank you guys for doing that. We're going to fund some open source development while shitting on ridiculous people. Closing thoughts, gentlemen. Hodel, you want to kick us off?

[American Hodl]

Yeah, let me think about this here for a second. What are my closing thoughts? I think in general, you gotta just keep living, man. I got nothing.

[Walker]

Yeah, you don't have to have any. You already dropped so much wisdom. Well, okay, go back to me.

[American Hodl]

Do Eric first.

[Walker]

Eric, what about you? What do you want to leave people with?

[Eric Cason]

Look, Trump getting elected was like, the whole market was like, waiting to see whether or not we were going to go into socialism hell or if there's going to be an opportunity for something meaningful to happen. Now something meaningful is going to happen, and bitcoin is going to rip super hard in the next six months. And so, like, if you've been like, I've been like, staging a little here and there, but I got my 401k. Like, you don't have enough coin. You're gonna want more coin later. And you should stack harder. So you should really consider about, like, put, you know, like, stop messing around. Like, shove it in. Like, like put the whole thing in and enjoy what it means and, like, go for it. In addition to, you know, you should really think for yourself, you know, like, nobody actually has all of the right fucking answers. And if you actually spend some time and energy thinking hard about what your values are and what you want for the world and for yourself, you're probably going to come to some great conclusions, you know? So I really hope that more of you are going to fly your freak flags and, like, do your own thing. Walker, you're a great example. You're just doing the bitcoin podcast, despite the fact that bitcoin podcasts were saturated as fuck. You were just like, you know what? I'm going to try my own fucking thing. Turns out people like you and like listening to you. So even if it seems in other people are like, hey, this is saturated. There's too many people like go do you. And what you're supposed to like, that's what the world wants. That's where you're going to find your power and that's where you're going to make the most money. Don't wait for somebody to be like, you need a college degree and just suck five dicks at this law firm to get a job to practice law. Like, find, like find the fucking hack. Figure out the way that you can actually go do the thing that you want to do. What is the world wants for you and other people want for you, the system does not fucking want for you. Like, realize that right now you're going to be way ahead for yourself. So I hope to see all of you young entrepreneurs with the production of all of the great and wonderful things that you will be accepting only on a bitcoin standard because you're smart enough that you don't want to get fucked holding a bunch of fiat that's going to go to zero. That's the end of what I have to say.

[American Hodl]

I actually do have something to say. I was thinking about this. I think going into the bull market, an important message for people that they need to be aware of is that yes, you should go hard. There's that clip of me on Walker show saying stack your fucking ass off and all that. And like, yes, you should go hard. You should be here, you should be fully committed to this and you should be investing a significant portion of what you have available. All true, but in bull markets, people take leverage and leverage is something that people mistakenly think is a time machine to being an og and it's not. And you know, we've seen a lot of people get wrecked. So if you are going to take leverage, be extremely careful. It's one of those things that like, if you warn enough people about doing it, the people that you know, ignore all the warnings and walk through all the warning signs anyway and then go do it and succeed. They were always meant to succeed. But for the vast majority of people, like you won't succeed. You know what I mean? So you really should heed the warning and only you know if you're that person or not. And everybody thinks they are that person, but you only find out you're not that person who can walk through all the warning signs until you get fucking destroyed. So don't get destroyed. You know what I mean?

[Eric Cason]

Like, by the way, this is being Said by the man who made a bitcoin by betting the man who had the leverage platform that his leverage platform would go bankrupt within a year. And it fucking did. So just saying that Hodl might actually know a little bit about what the he's talking about. So with that, please don't go long and slam your fucking dick in the door. Because there's a 10% drawdown which could very well happen when we hit an all time high and your retarded ass did a 10x long and didn't realize that that's what happens. You get fucking liquidated when the price goes down. So don't be fucking retarded and lose a little bit of bitcoin that you have because you thought that you could get more bitcoin because you were smarter. You're not. You're a normal fucking person who will hurt yourself if you do that. So sorry, I just really wanted to.

[American Hodl]

Add 100% and two cardinal sins here in bitcoin you need to be aware of heading into the bull market is number one not being bullish enough on bitcoin. That's the biggest sin. It's the biggest sin anyone can make. Number two, unfortunately, is being too bullish on bitcoin. So you gotta strike the balance right in the middle there because if you're on either side, you're getting fucking wrecked. Okay? So the best way to do that, stack your bitcoin, Hodl, your bitcoin, do it in self custody, do it in cold storage, do it with a multisig. Don't go crazy on this. These products, these MSTU and BTU and fucking these leveraged products you can now get access to in the markets. Don't go crazy on MSTR stock. Don't go crazy on shitcoins or meme coins. You know, everybody has a plan. I've met a lot of guys who had a plan to get to a hundred bitcoin who ended up with zero bitcoin, right? So like try not to be one of those guys. You know, if your plan has three elaborate steps that involve you hitting a one in a million shot three times, you're not going to execute that plan, man. I couldn't execute it. I don't know why you think you're good enough to. I don't know why anyone would ever think they're good enough to like, you know, be smart.

[Walker]

I've got a fucking three step plan and it's called dca.

[American Hodl]

Yes.

[Walker]

Fucking like literally. Guys, none of us are as smart as we think we are. And like that's good. Like you being too smart is just a pain. That's why, you know, that's why you need to drink and stuff.

[American Hodl]

Totally.

[Walker]

But like literally just like just fucking dca like it's actually like just this cheat code. Like you can just buy bitcoin, set up a daily DCA buy and then set up an hourly DCA buy and it'll just split the difference and you will be in large profit in the long term. And I have not been around as long as you guys been around since 2020 and I just dollar cost average. And you know what, it works, okay? And I try to create some value. And Eric, to your point, I appreciate that, that you, that you see this journey that I'm on creating another fucking bitcoin podcast. But I just want to say until there are more bitcoin podcasts than insufferable fucking finance bro podcasts, there are not enough bitcoin podcasts. We need to. This needs to be the flippening where bitcoin podcasts are more plentiful than fucking finance bro. Like here, here's the real, you know, real estate stock stocks that you should buy that'll generate some passive income for you in your 401k. It's like Jesus fucking Christ, grow some balls and buy some bitcoin guys. Yeah, listen, I fucking appreciate you guys. Thanks for hopping on here. This, this was a very enjoyable time and I know that people love hearing from both of you guys because you are principal dudes who always laid out straight and we are, we are very blessed to have you in this fucking strange community of people. And it's great to fucking hang out with you guys and I hope we can do it in fucking person over a beer again soon. But yeah, hodl. Get the fuck out of here. Case it you guys. For everyone listening, I'm going to kill this live stream now and we're going to just to make sure these guys are uploaded. So love you all. Thanks for joining. I'm Kelly now and that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast. If you are a bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast, head to bitcoinpodcast.net Sponsor or send an email to hello Bitcoin podcast.net if you are enjoying the bitcoin podcast and find it valuable, give it a boost on Fountain a five star review wherever you're listening. Or better yet, share this show with your network so more people can learn about bitcoin or don't. Bitcoin doesn't care, but I sure do appreciate it. You can grab links in the show Notes to watch or list this show wherever you get your podcasts. Or go to bitcoin podcast.net podcast and you'll also find the links to follow me and the show on no and on X. Bitcoin is scarce. There will only ever be 21 million. But Bitcoin podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to the bitcoin podcast. Until next time, stay free.