THE Bitcoin Podcast with Will Casarin (JB55): "CENSOR THIS PODCAST: NOSTR & BITCOIN VS TOTALITARIANISM"

Air Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Walker America
Guest: Will Casarin (JB55), Creator of Damus and NoteDeck

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, host Walker America welcomes Will Casarin (aka JB55), developer behind Damus and NoteDeck—flagship Nostr clients—to discuss the intersection of censorship-resistant technology, Bitcoin, and the fight against growing authoritarianism. Their dialogue covers building on open protocols (Nostr, Lightning), challenges with centralized platforms (notably Apple, YouTube), grassroots commerce, the impact of government clampdowns (UK, China), and the cultural and technical hurdles facing mass adoption of both Bitcoin and censorship-resistant platforms, all painted with Will’s irreverent, no-nonsense software builder’s perspective.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unprecedented Moment for Bitcoin and Open tech

• Will opens with a contemplation on the cosmic uniqueness of discovering Bitcoin:

  “Just imagine if you were the first person to discover the properties of gold... we're at this one moment in time where we create this technology that is perfect scarcity, mathematical scarcity based off the laws of physics. And, and you're here at this point in time. It's like, and you think it's a scam. Can you talk about the biggest fumble of your, like, entire existence? I can't think of anything more important to be doing other than building on Bitcoin.” — Will Casarin, [00:00]

2. Peer-to-Peer Tech as Resistance to Authoritarianism

• Will attributes his drive to build autonomous tech (e.g., Nostr, Damus) to both personal trauma and a fundamental distaste for authoritarian control:

  “I have like, this like, really anti, like, authoritarian thing. I think it was driven by that, like, trauma experience as a kid. Just like always being told to get off my computer when I was like, that's all I want to do... So when Apple's telling me that I can't do something, I'm like, I want to burn you to the ground. Now my number one focus is to, like, build around you.” — Will Casarin, [00:00], [28:27]

• He likens peer-to-peer conversations to the most “decentralized” thing humans have always done, and sees P2P communication protocols as restoring this ancient freedom:

  “A conversation at a bar is the most decentralized thing you can do. It’s like completely peer to peer, doesn’t require any centralized... infrastructure, no cloud involved. So I think what we’re doing, what peer to peer technology [does], is simply restoring that human thing we’ve been doing for hundreds of thousands of years.” — Will Casarin, [00:00], [66:41]

3. Apple, YouTube, and Centralized Censorship

• Will recounts his exhausting, often arbitrary battles with Apple over Damus’s lightning-zapping features:

  “It's kind of like arguing with your girlfriend... it's not a logical argument... I'm like, they're like, you violated this guideline. And I'm like, no, I didn't... you can't even argue with them in a reasonable way.” — Will Casarin, [29:28]

  “The guidelines aren't really real. They're really just like, they're there. And, and it doesn't matter if you follow them or not, they will strong arm you into removing your app and doing whatever they want.” — Will Casarin, [31:59]

• Walker draws a parallel to YouTube’s whimsical deplatforming:

  “It’s very similar to how YouTube handles things when it comes to content moderation... you have these tech monopolies that know they can get away with doing whatever they want because you don’t have any other option.” — Walker America, [32:20]

4. UK's Online Safety Act & Global Authoritarian Trends

• The UK is discussed as a “case study” in rapid, absurd digital authoritarianism, with expanding laws restricting speech, protest, and even prayer:

  “It’s insane... even Orwell couldn’t have conceived of how dystopian things would get in the UK so quickly.” — Walker America, [16:40]

  “They’ll come to your door and like knock on your door and arrest you... I’ve seen videos like that for, since like 10 years ago.” — Will Casarin, [18:54]

• Will suspects these policies may be coordinated "experiments" by the state and corporate interests:

  “It feels like they’re just experimenting to see how people react as like a psyop. I don’t know, maybe it's not as coordinated as that. Maybe they're legitimate... worried about Online safety. But... it always backed by corporate sponsors... who is profiting from this?” — Will Casarin, [15:08]

5. Why Nostr? Censorship Resistance and Permissionless Innovation

• Will explains Nostr’s superpower: its open, interoperable database/protocol lets viral ideas spread as data and functionality across all apps (“Follow Packs,” micro-apps, seamless Lightning integration).

• Key quote:

  “The power of Nostr: viral apps can generate new forms of data, other apps can consume that form of data... That is the thing that makes Nostr so different from other web apps.” — Will Casarin, [40:33]

• On Nostr, algorithmic boosting is replaced by authenticity and reputation—only those with real value or personality thrive.

  “Reputation is everything... there’s no algorithms that can pump... you really have to rely on your reputation... So I feel like people are a lot more authentic on Nostr, and that’s honestly just made the network feel more like a community of real people...” — Will Casarin, [85:39]

6. Zaps, Lightning, and the “Freedom Money” Experience

• Zapping (tipping via Lightning) is seen as both a technical and cultural unlock—when you get paid instantly in Bitcoin for your content, you taste freedom:

  “There’s nothing more like, fuck yeah, freedom than that, right?” — Will Casarin, [69:19] “Zapping is like sending chunks of gold or gold dust over the internet.” — Will Casarin, [73:15]

7. Challenges for Mass Adoption: Stablecoins, UX, Global Context

• Will and Walker mull why stablecoins (esp. Tether) have gained more traction than Bitcoin for everyday payments—network effect of the dollar, UX barriers, and local priorities.

  “It seems like stablecoins are, for some reason, taking off... I always wanted bitcoin to be that thing.” — Will Casarin, [53:18]

• Will highlights the immense user UX difficulty (key management, onboarding) and reasons most people “just aren’t interested” in Bitcoin/Nostr yet, especially in the US.

  “Maybe it familiarizes people more with the technology and more with interacting with keys. And maybe that's the stage we're at...” — Will Casarin, [56:35] “Holding your key is still very hard for people.” — Will Casarin, [56:35]

8. Building Nostr for the Next Generation: NoteDeck, New Platforms

• Will previews major releases: NoteDeck (“Obsidian for Nostr,” built-in Lightning node management, dynamic Nostr apps) and a new mobile client to be unveiled at Bitcoin Asia.

  “At the end of the month I will be announcing a new client that runs on mobile... it’s not just another client. It’s going to be a new type of platform for building Nostr apps... like an app browser for Nostr that’s going to support dynamic loading of apps... really cool new technology.” — Will Casarin, [89:58]

9. Grassroots Commerce and Nostr-Only Business

• Real-world vignettes: Nostr as a small vendor marketplace (e.g. Peony Lane wine), power of global permissionless payments:

  “The market isn't just like your local currency or the currency of the country you're in, it's the entire planet. So that's a much wider market than...that's a lot of opportunities and...we're going to get better and better marketplaces and storefronts on Nostr...” — Will Casarin, [78:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Nature of Authority and Resistance

• “If I didn't have those guys I feel like I would just be building like a lightning node into the...which I'm doing on NoteDeck.” — Will Casarin, joking on his dev tunnel-vision, [26:02]
• “I always say if I get thrown in jail, that's just better PR for Nostr anyway.” — Will Casarin, [35:53]

On Censorship, Free Speech, and Tools of Control

• “The fact you can just legitimately get arrested for a social media post in the UK is just nuts.” — Walker America, [16:40]

On Human Nature and the Ascent of Open Tech

• “People always just want someone else to handle that for them...there'll always be people in power who can have control because there’s always going to be people who just want to be...they don’t want to have any responsibility. Maybe that's just always going to be the case.” — Will Casarin, [60:04]

On the Magic of Bitcoin

• “It is literally magic Internet money.” — Walker America, [74:11]
• “I can’t think of anything more important to be doing other than building on bitcoin.” — Will Casarin, [00:00], [74:50]
• “It’s pretty incredible...I feel so fortunate to be alive at this place in space and time. How lucky are we that we get to be around for literally the dawn of the bitcoin age?” — Walker America, [74:24]

On Being Authentic in Cyberspace

• “Anytime you put something into the Internet, even if you don’t think you’re influencing people, it’s like you’re literally influencing people. Like every, every time that note goes into every brain, it’s an influencing that brain in some way.” — Will Casarin, [83:14]
• “Authenticity is rewarded on Nostr and fakeness is rejected.” — Walker America, [83:42]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Will’s vision for Bitcoin’s cosmic moment and personal drive against authority | | 04:47 | The small business “zap-commerce” revolution on Nostr | | 11:05 | The future of 3D-printed defense and risks for Bitcoiners in authoritarian states | | 16:40 | UK’s Online Safety Act, the absurdity of authoritarian policies, and the need for censorship-resistant protocols | | 26:02 | Will on balancing freedom tech with UX and the role of his team in user adoption | | 28:27 | Apple’s ongoing censorship, battles over zaps in Damus | | 35:53 | “If I get thrown in jail, that’s just better PR for Nostr anyway” – on risk in freedom tech dev | | 40:33 | Nostr’s interoperability superpower; viral network effects; uniqueness of protocol | | 53:18 | Stablecoins’ ascendancy over Bitcoin for payments; Will’s frustration and hopes | | 62:13 | Analogy: Bitcoin as Linux (the open, foundational “root” beneath the restrictions) | | 69:19 | The magic of using Bitcoin for physical and online transactions (the “fuck yeah, freedom” moment) | | 74:24 | The privilege and luck of being alive during the dawn of the Bitcoin age | | 85:39 | Nostr’s “authenticity” advantage; how reputation (not algorithms) rules | | 89:58 | Announcement: Next-gen client and platform (NoteDeck) preview and roadmap |

Additional Highlights

• Emerging killer apps: Bitchat (mesh/P2P messaging), community/Reddit-like tools, global marketplaces, seamless Lightning integrations.
• Attitude shift: Both hosts are more optimistic about the long-term prospects of Bitcoin and Nostr, but resigned to a “slow boil” where the system only changes as people are pushed by oppression or attracted by genuinely superior experience.
• Advice for Builders and Users: Try new clients, embrace interoperability, build in the open, focus on lived experience (not just ideology or theory).
• Strong theme: Tech as liberation and tech as threat—what matters is who wields it, and whether you can opt out.

Where to Find More

• Will Casarin: On Nostr at jb555.com
• Download Damus and NoteDeck: domus.io/notedeck
• More on the Podcast: bitcoinpodcast.net

This summary captures the technical and ideological richness of the discussion, its irreverent, passionate tone, and key takeaways for both enthusiasts and new explorers of the Bitcoin and Nostr freedom-tech world.