DO THE F***ING MATH | BITCOIN AFTER DARK EP 1 (BAD001)

Summary

THE Bitcoin Podcast – DO THE F***ING MATH | BITCOIN AFTER DARK EP 1 (BAD001)

Host: Walker America
Guest: Nathan (from BTC Sessions)
Date: December 6, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This spirited "Bitcoin After Dark" episode, originally a late-night live stream, captures Walker America's bullish perspective on Bitcoin during a period of pessimistic market sentiment. Joined by Nathan, the discussion unpacks why bearish moods don't match historic levels of positive Bitcoin news, offers advice for newcomers and seasoned plebs alike, highlights community and cultural aspects of Bitcoin, and laments fiat system woes—all with plenty of humor and the occasional tangent. The core message: opportunity is knocking for stackers who do the math.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sentiment Mismatch & Bullish Opportunity

• Walker kicks off with the core thesis:

  • Despite bearish vibes, he’s never been more bullish. The mood across Bitcoin Twitter and crypto spaces is negative, but the fundamentals and adoption news are historically strong.
  • Quote:
    “That mismatch between the insanely bullish feeling I have based on all the incredible stuff that's happening and the contrastingly bearish price action...screams, like, opportunity. This is when you need to be stacking as hard as you possibly can...” (00:19)

• Price context

  • Hovering near $96,000 (Walker’s "fiat cuck bucks")—not a crash (“rounding error away from 100k”), and globally significant, especially in weaker currencies (03:06; 107:33).

2. Facing Dips with “Bitcoin Zen” (05:00)

• Walker embraces dips thanks to DCA strategy:
  • “[T]he longer that I have been just DCAing into bitcoin, the less of any sort of worry I feel. Anytime bitcoin dips...My infinitely printable US dollars are going to go farther now. I’m going to get more bitcoin...” (05:00)
• A previous podcast with Nico from Simply Bitcoin introduced the idea of “Bitcoin Zen”: seeing dips as gifts, not threats.

3. Bullish Developments Ignored by Market

• Historic news overlooked amid poor sentiment (06:06–06:52):
  • Square enabling over 4 million merchants to accept BTC—using “bitcoin rails” for both BTC and USD payments.
  • Cash App integrating more bitcoin features.
  • Even the Czech central bank experimenting with bitcoin holdings.
• “If this was 2020, people would be losing their minds over this news...now it’s just shrugged off.” (69:04)

4. Critique of Shitcoiners & Investment Philosophy

• Contrast between DCA bitcoiners and altcoin traders (“shitcoiners”)
  • Many market bears are “crypto people” who are underexposed to Bitcoin and overexposed to altcoins (08:23).
  • Host laments his own mistakes with buying litecoin, empathizes with newcomers and those misled by the idea they need a whole BTC.
  • “...what else do you need besides bitcoin when it comes...for the average person from an investment standpoint? You really, you really just don't need anything else...” (09:12)
  • Memorable quote:
    “We have this incredible tool and some of you are out there being degenerates with shitcoins.” (10:00)

5. The “HODL” Meme and Trader Psychology (20:05–25:12)

• Walker does a dramatic reading of the “I AM HODLING” post (21:16)—highlighting how most people can’t outperform Bitcoin by trading, so stacking and holding is the sanest path.
• “If you're not beating Bitcoin by a ridiculous margin, there's very much no point.” (23:49)

6. Dollar Cost Averaging (DCA) & Plebs’ Peace of Mind

• Both hosts praise DCA for peace of mind, especially during drawdowns.
• Advice:
  “You should look at this as a beautiful opportunity to stack more corn...you should not be viewing it as like, oh, this is the fucking end of the world.” (26:45)

7. Cultural Vibes, Community, and Meeting Other Bitcoiners

• Nathan joins the stream (31:14), shares his own experience feeling less excited about the “2025 class”—but highlights how meeting Bitcoiners in person or through podcasts brings lasting excitement.
• “The reason that I'm so unbelievably bullish is the people that I get to talk to in this space.” (92:08)
• Advice: Go to meetups, conferences, or start a Bitcoin podcast—community is bullish, even if price isn’t (93:28).

8. Four-Year Cycles: Dead or Evolving? (40:42–49:38)

• Hosts debate whether the “four-year cycle” holds up as more institutions and OG whales shape price action instead of predictable halving-related movements.
• Nathan: “I think actually one of the most bullish things...is the death of the four year cycle narrative...For it to get exciting again, it has to be adventurous.” (40:42)
• Discussion on how much halving cycles are psychological vs. fundamental, and whether new halving events will have diminishing effect.

9. Macro Commentary: Fiat System Critique and AI’s Impact

• Fiat’s “biggest con”: Forcing everyone to be investors just to tread water due to constant currency debasement (28:23).
• AI is supremely deflationary—further dooming inflationary fiat and positioning Bitcoin as the only sustainable monetary standard in an increasingly efficient world (76:12).

10. Philosophy of Wealth, Time Preference, and the Long Game

• Bitcoiners are positioning themselves not just for financial gain, but for greater freedom and meaning: “If you are thinking in that timescale, you need to look at this as a generational opportunity.” (107:51)
• Stacking Bitcoin now is about optionality and legacy, not just getting rich.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If it is obvious to you right now…and you’re looking at this like, how the hell could you be bearish… Then you’re in the minority. Congratulations, you’re awake right now.”
  —Walker (00:56)

• On altcoins:
  “Maybe you just shouldn’t be trading shitcoins. Call it crazy, you could just have been stacking bitcoin and not been a fucking degenerate.”
  —Walker (08:30)

• HODLing wisdom:
  “I'm a bad trader. And so are you, most likely. I'm sorry if that hurts.”
  —Walker (25:03)

• On the stacking environment:
  “When my infinitely printable fiat cuck bucks buy me a little bit more bitcoin. That's like…a good day for me.”
  —Walker (19:59)

• DCA and vibes:
  “You just set a DCA…and fucking live your life.”
  —Walker (28:23)

• Community empowerment:
  “If you're feeling bearish right now, start a bitcoin podcast, start talking to more bitcoiners. Go to your local meetup...”
  —Walker (95:29)

• Adoption Curve Realism:
  “We've never had anything like bitcoin...How much hubris do we have to have to assume that we can figure out exactly what this is going to look like?”
  —Walker (64:53)

• On optionality:
  “You don’t need to have billions for Bitcoin to be fuck you money. Bitcoin just is fuck you money…your optionality only increases.”
  —Walker (104:43)

• Legacy focus:
  “We are going to be the capital allocators of the new world order…What are you going to do?”
  —Walker (106:30)

---

Timestamps for Essential Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Quote | |----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–01:35 | Opening monologue: Sentiment mismatch and bullish opportunity | | 05:00 | Finding “Bitcoin Zen”: DCA takes the fear out of dips | | 06:06–06:52 | Bullish news: Square, Cash App, Czech central bank | | 08:23–13:05 | Crypto bear sentiment explained: Shitcoiners, psychology, empathy for noobs | | 20:05–25:12 | The “I AM HODLING” meme and why traders (probably) lose to Bitcoin | | 26:45–28:23 | Advice on seeing dips as chances to stack and focusing on DCA | | 31:14 | Nathan joins — discussion of Bitcoin culture, podcasting, and bear market community | | 40:42–49:38 | Four-year cycle: fading relevance, institutional impact, psychological echoes | | 64:53–66:18 | Adoption curve and humility: Why no one can predict Bitcoin’s path | | 76:12–81:26 | AI’s deflationary impact, the death of debt-based money, freeing capital for real innovation | | 92:08–93:28 | In-person connections, meetups, and how Bitcoiners inspire each other | | 104:43–106:34 | Optionality, economic freedom, and what Bitcoiners will do as “capital allocators” | | 107:51–109:26 | Big picture: Stacking for generations, high time preference, taking the opportunity now |

---

Tone and Style

• Language: Candid, irreverent, and humorous with frequent tangents and sidebars
• Energy: Casual, late-night confessional vibe; passionate and occasionally explicit
• Community-first: The message is not just about wealth, but about building a better future, freedom, and sharing the journey

---

Final Takeaways & Calls to Action

• This "boring," bearish-feeling market is a time of immense opportunity for those who understand Bitcoin’s fundamentals and long-term game theory.
• Don’t get distracted by price or market noise—keep stacking, especially when sentiment is low.
• Community is everything: podcasts, meetups, and connecting with other Bitcoiners will keep your spirits and conviction high.
• “Do the fucking math”—Bitcoin is finite, fiat is infinite. Stacking now is generationally impactful.

---

Closing Quotes

“You have an opportunity right now, but it's up to you to take it. Nobody can...the orange pill must be taken willingly...most people are still asleep. But that's your opportunity. Take it.”
—Walker (107:51)

“If you're stacking sats right now, you will get to have the life that you want. So what do you want? What do you want to do? Where are you going to contribute what's meaningful and important to you?”
—Nathan (109:26)

---

Stay bullish. Start a Bitcoin podcast. Meet other Bitcoiners. Raise your family. Subvert the state. And have a great night. (111:17)

---

Episode link, guest information, and further resources: See show notes at Bitcoin Podcast

Transcript

[A]

Right now, to me, it feels like the most bullish time ever, but the price doesn't match up with that. We're not at new all time highs. We're not ripping higher. And to me, that mismatch between the insanely bullish feeling I have based on all of the incredible stuff that's happening and the contrastingly kind of like, quote, bearish price action, like, we're still hovering right around, like, we're a rounding error away from 100k, right? So it's not like, like, bitcoin's not dead. Like, zoom out, guys, chill. But there is a contrast. There's a mismatch there. There's a sentiment mismatch. And so to me, that just screams, like, opportunity. This is when you need to be stacking as hard as you possibly can, because for some reason, people just aren't seeing what is obvious to some of us. And if it is obvious to you right now and you're looking at this like, how the hell could you be bearish right now? How the hell could you not be stacking as much as you can right now? Then you're in the minority. Congratulations, you're awake right now. But you have an opportunity. There is an information asymmetry right now that you can take advantage of because bitcoin will continue to go higher. It. It just. It will, because. And it's not even bitcoin going higher. Bitcoin's just staying the same. Fiat's just being debased everywhere, always, all the time, forever, until they go to zero. You know that's going to happen, and if you know that that's going to happen and you're aware of bitcoin, you are, like, doing yourself a disservice if you are not stacking right.

Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs. My name is Walker, and this is a Bitcoin after dark emergency broadcast on the Bitcoin podcast. Well, it's actually a rebroadcast because I've been doing some impromptu live streams late at night, and I figured I might as well release them as standard episodes for anyone who was not up late enough to catch the live streams. Because while everyone else seems to be bearish right now, I am insanely bullish. And I hope these rants make you a little bullish too. I've had guests for each of these rants so far, and we'll have more guests and more rants in the future, so make sure to head to the Show Notes to check out the guest links and give them a follow. And while you're there, check out my sponsor links and referral codes that I can keep making the Bitcoin Podcast this episode is brought to you by Blockware. What if you could lower your tax bill and stack bitcoin at the time? Same same time. Well, with Blockware you can new US tax rules let miners write off 100% of their mining hardware in a single year. Earn bitcoin daily while saving big come tax season. Get started at mining.blockware solutions.com titcoin and use the code tcoin to get $100 off your first miner when using the Blockware marketplace. Now this is not tax advice from me, so go speak with the team at Blockware to learn more. Again, that's mining.blockware solutions.com SL tcoin Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin after dark emergency broadcast.

Sentiment's like pretty bad right now, huh? We're at. What are we at right now? What's the fiat cuck buck price of bitcoin? We are at about 95,918 infinitely printable war mongering petroleum Fiat cuck bucks per bitcoin and that is really bearish, apparently. I'm not sure that's what I've been told. That is what I've been told. Let's see if this is also streaming live on other platforms. Did I. Apparently I made it to nostr. Let's see.

For those of you who aren't yet a noster, you probably should be because if you were on there, honestly, you wouldn't even know that bitcoin was, quote crashing right now. You would just be living your life and having a, having a wonderful time. But sadly you're not on Nostr and so you don't know that. Let's see. Let's see what's happening. I clearly need to update the label of this on Nostr. I wonder if this is live on YouTube right now. I'm honestly not sure it says no, but well, I thought I did. Hmm. Well, fuck YouTube. Anyway, so that's that.

How's everybody doing? You guys feeling fearful? Anxious? Is there blood in the streets? Is some of it your own? I don't know. I'm feeling okay right now. Honestly. What I realized is.

The amount of.

Fear or potential anxiety, whatever you want to call it that I have when bitcoin dips, it kind of just went away.

The longer that I have been just dcaing into bitcoin, the less of any sort of worry I feel. Anytime bitcoin dips. I did a fantastic rip with Nico from Simply Bitcoin the other day on the bitcoin podcast. He was talking about this idea of bitcoin Zen and I really loved it because it's this idea that, you know, once you've been DCing for long enough, you just really look at any bitcoin dip as like, well, this is just a, what a, what a gift, right? What an amazing gift I get. Yeah, Bitcoin's down, but that's fantastic. My infinitely printable US dollars are going to go farther now. I'm going to get more bitcoin for each of my infinitely principal dollars. This is a very undeniably good thing.

And I feel like the reason the sentiment is so broadly bad right now. I mean, granted, not just bitcoin is dipping, right? Equities are dipping too. I don't know, if you look at the S and P and that kind of shit, which apparently some people do, apparently that's not doing super well either. But who fucking cares.

At the end of the day, here we sit. The year is 2025. Bitcoin is still a teenager hasn't really been around that long. You had incredible news this past week with Square announcing bitcoin being available to 4 million plus merchants to accept bitcoin payments. The fact that they're using bitcoin Rails as well even to process USD payments, which is super cool.

You have cash app also another one of Jack Dorsey's within that block umbrella doing really cool shit.

You had all this incredible news. You had even like the, the Czech central bank.

Announced that they had bought bitcoin as part of some like experiment, right? And I don't think it was just bitcoin. They did some weird like stablecoin deposit thing. I don't know, I didn't look into it that much. But I know that they bought like a little bit of bitcoin, right? Not a crazy amount, but a little bit. And it's like that's a central bank doing that. It appears the Czech central bank is like quite a lot more based than most central banks also, which is kind of I guess cool. Like they're still central bankers but like, I don't know, they're the skinniest kid at fat camp I guess in terms of central bankers. So that's kind of neat. But yeah, I don't know, I figured I would come on here right now. My beautiful wife is asleep. Our son is asleep. So I'm like, well it's Friday, I'm not even drunk this time, guys, I'm sober as a bird right now. Usually if I was hopping on a live stream like this late at night, I would probably have the excuse of being a bit inebriated, but I don't even have that right now. I'm quite well hydrated, actually. Not even drunk at all. So that's fantastic. It just felt like the right time to come on here and chat with you guys. And I hope that this is actually streaming various places. Maybe it is. It looks like it's on X. I think it's on nostr. Should probably blast that out farther afield on NOSTR so that people actually see it and, you know, hop in here.

But yeah, it just, it felt like it was the time to come on here because I see so much incredibly bearish sentiment, and I think a lot of it comes from people, like, a lot of the bearish sentiment that you see generally.

On X, a lot of that is from quote, crypto people.

Who are way underexposed to bitcoin and way overexposed to whatever shitcoins they happen to be trading that particular day. And like, that's, that's 100% on them. You know, like, maybe you just shouldn't be trading shitcoins. I don't know. Like, call it crazy, you could just have been stacking bitcoin and not been a fucking degenerate. But unfortunately you decided that like, bitcoin wasn't. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't good enough. The 55% CAGR wasn't good enough for you. You needed, you needed something better than that, you know, you needed something more. And that's just kind of like, kind of, kind of pathetic, right? At the end of the day? Because it's like.

What else do you need besides bitcoin when it comes, like, for the average person from an investment standpoint, like, you really, you really just don't need anything else, right? You have this incredible asset that also happens to be like an unstoppable, unfuckable medium of exchange, right? Nobody, nobody can, nobody can screw you over. Nobody can stop you from using Bitcoin. And it's also a pristine store of value. But ultimately it is also peer to peer electronic cash in the sense that you can give it to somebody else pseudonymously or anonymously if you protect yourself well enough. And nobody knows. And more importantly, nobody can stop you from doing it. We have this incredible, incredible tool and some of you are out there being degenerates with shitcoins.

And I understand, because when I You know, I ignored bitcoin for the first time in I've ignored bitcoin also, I should say I've ignored bitcoin longer than I've been stacking bitcoin. I ignored bitcoin for the first time in 2014. A buddy was buying something off the, off the Silk Road, you may have heard of it. And he was like, hey Walker, if you like, I'm getting things off of this website. Have you heard of these, like bitcoins? I have to buy these bitcoins to transact on this website. Like, do you know anything about this? I'm like, I don't fucking know what you're talking about, dude. Like, whatever, nerd, you know, back to whatever Fiat shit I was doing. So that was the first time I ignored it. And then 2017 rolls around. It's like the height of the blow off top. Like I managed to just time the top absolutely perfectly. Just bought like the pico top. But I didn't buy bitcoin even, which would have been fine, like now, you know, like if I would have bought bitcoin then. But I didn't have much, much cash and so I was like, well, I don't have very much cash. I'll just buy, buy a few of these litecoins because they're less expensive than bitcoin and maybe it'll be worth as much as bitcoin someday. And it's like litecoin still has not even made it Back to that 2017 top, which is just. At least I don't think they have.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I haven't checked the price in a while. Just pathetic, right? So that's why I have a lot of empathy for people who.

Start or who look at bitcoin and say, well, I can't afford a full bitcoin. And they don't do any more research than that. They just think I can't buy a fraction of bitcoin.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

They don't even know that that exists. They don't know satoshis exists or bits, however you'd like to call them these days. So I empathize with that. But the point being that the people who do know that, the people who do know that you can just buy a fraction of bitcoin, the people that have been actually paying attention to bitcoin for a while, but instead of just to paraphrase Adele, staying humble and stacking sats, trying to focus on their craft and create value and stack bitcoin on the side to eventually retire their bloodline and by retiring, I think retire your bloodline. This is a sidebar, but retire your bloodline is kind of like an interesting thing. You don't want to just have a bunch of retired people. Retiring is what makes you slow and lazy. You want people to have the option within your bloodline to do what they want, but still be productive members of society. I digress. The point being, if you're aware of bitcoin, you're steeped in this, you've been on crypto, Twitter, crypto X whatever for a while and you just still decide to be a degenerate and trade these shitcoins and get absolutely wrecked at times like these. If you own spot bitcoin right now, and let's say you just started stacking spot bitcoin at the all time high, right? At the all time high. That's when you decided to, to finally pull the trigger and start stacking bitcoin. Like I, I feel for you because you're, you're down a little bit right now, right? We've gone from whatever 125 or 126 infinitely print, 126,000 infinitely printable fiat cuck bucks per bitcoin down to like, let's see, right now, 96,000. So that's a decent little haircut, right? But you still don't spot bitcoin. I mean, at least like, hopefully you have get a UTXO that's big enough transfer to your cold storage.

And you actually own bitcoin. You own something that nobody can take away from you. You own something. Once you have those 12 or 24 words, you have something that nobody can take from you, no matter how much force they try to exert. There's a great quote from Julian Assange. It's like no amount of violence can solve a math problem. And I just think that's beautiful.

Also just sidebar here. Uh, we're gonna do a lot of sidebars. Uh, thanks everyone who I. I see that we now have some people live on various chats. I'm gonna share this out on Nostr as well. If you're not on Nostr, like I, I highly encourage you to, to check out nostr. This is right now streaming on nostr. Apparently it's only streaming via the titcoin account. Um.

I don't know, I don't know why. Sometimes things just don't, don't exactly work the way they're supposed to. And Noster, I don't make the rules.

Moral of the story being you should check out Noster but if you're not a noster, that's okay, too. I'll forgive you. You'll be there eventually, hopefully before you desperately need it. But thank you to everybody who's joining on other mediums. I see some of you have said, this is working. I see somebody else said, nice, I'm a retard. That's sweet. I'm a retard too. Obviously. I said so right at the beginning. If you are watching this, I wonder how many times you can say retard before. Before YouTube kicks you off. Should we find out? I think we're probably going to. I think we just might. They will probably kick me off soon enough. If you are watching this, wherever you're watching this, go ahead and give it a share. You do not have to like and subscribe. I think that's only a thing on YouTube. So feel free to not like and not subscribe unless you want to. Bitcoin doesn't really care.

I don't really care either. Honestly, I kind of hate YouTube. How many times can you say retard? And I hate YouTube and YouTube's retarded before YouTube will just cut your live stream. We are going to find out tonight, guys. Again, I digress. But if you do want to share this stream, feel free to. That'd be neat. I guess if you want to subscribe on. On YouTube so that more normies see this show, that's cool too. I recommend you check out this show on Fountain. They do not pay me to say that Fountain is a bitcoin and noster podcasting app. They do not pay me to say that. I actually pay them to host my show on Fountain. So you know that I mean it when I say you should check out fountain.

Point being YouTube's a bit. But you know what? YouTube's also top of the funnel. And the reason that I have a podcast in the first place and the reason that you should probably start a podcast too, is that you can actually reach outside of the echo chamber a little bit. But that's really hard to do do because YouTube's algorithm is a fickle bitch, apparently. And I am just terrible at catering to that algorithm. But it is what it is, right? Okay, back to shitcoiners. And I want to maybe something else. I'm just going to keep digressing, then we're eventually going to bring it back full circle. This is the weave, as Trump calls it. You know, the weave. Not nearly as good at weaving as him. He's quite a. Quite a master at that. But.

Your fellow bitcoiners are not shitcoiners. I'd like to clarify that with all of this fucking drama going on about core and knots, I'd like to clarify that your fellow bitcoiners are not shitcoiners because they run a different node implementation than you, right? I think that all the bitcoiners that I know, no matter what node implementation they run, they're people that.

I think are just awesome humans and glad to. Glad to be in these, in these bitcoin trenches, pushing back against this fiat Panopticon that we find ourselves in together. So when I say shitcoiners, I don't mean a bitcoiner who's running a different node implementation than you. Just want to be very clear there.

What I mean is people who've decided to just be degenerates and honestly, people who just buy shitcoins, I don't even view them as like the true shitcoiners. Like, you're only a shitcoiner if you're pumping shitcoins and especially if you're an insider pumping shitcoins. Like those are the real fucking, just lowest of the low people. The people who decide that they're going to essentially do the most fiat thing possible, which is just create their own little fiat shitcoin, pretend that it has some sort of value or it does something better than bitcoin. Blockchain, not bitcoin, right? And you're going to pretend that lightning doesn't exist, pretend that E Cash doesn't exist, pretend of all these things just basically remain, you know, purposefully ignorant of all the reasons why your shitcoin is completely obsolete and you're going to try to pump it to unsuspecting retail. Like the. I think the XRP people are the worst of the worst when it comes to this. Like they are just the absolute worst.

And they're just everywhere, right? And they're just literally like central banker cucks. Like, oh, I swear this time, bro, jp, you know, JP Morgan's gonna integrate XRP and it's just gonna be awesome, dude. It's gonna go to 106. No, it's not, idiot. Like you're just literally buying Brad Garlinghouse's bags. But whatever. I digress yet again. Okay, bring this back on topic. I swear I'm coming back now.

People who are down bad on shitcoins are super bearish right now. If you're underexposed to bitcoin, you are super, super bearish right now. Understandably. So, like I would be bearish if I was underexposed to bitcoin. But I'm, like, very.

You know, that group. Irresponsibly long mstr. Like, I'm responsibly long bitcoin. Because being responsibly long bitcoin means having as much fucking bitcoin as you possibly can, like, and as little fiat as you can. Like, that's the responsible thing to do. Like, yeah, you should keep a little bit of fiat, like, in case you need stuff. And so, like, if you're me, like, you know, your wife is not like, hey, why is our checking account at 0 again? And I'm like, sorry, baby. Luckily, she's very understanding, and she will literally be the one who's like, did you, like, set limit orders for the. You know, in case it dips even further? And I'm like, yeah, I totally did, babe. Like, let me just do that right now. It's so good. She's not watching this right now. She's peacefully asleep, as is our son.

But if you are underexposed to bitcoin, I can understand why you'd be a little freaked out right now. If you are viewing this as a stacking opportunity, an opportunity to get a little bit more bitcoin right now for your dollars. Like, your dollar right now goes farther than it did yesterday. And I think bitcoin's been down for, like, 12 straight days or something. Just been, like, chopping right down. And you know what? Every day, my DCA buys just a little bit more. I think that's kind of a. Kind of an awesome thing, honestly. It's like, I like.

When my infinitely printable Fiat Cuckbucks buy me a little bit more bitcoin.

That's like. That's a good day for me. And I'm reminded of the.

Why am I Hodling? And yes, for anyone listening, it is Hodling, not Hodling. And you can literally watch a video of the guy who inadvertently created one of the most epic bitcoin memes saying it. And even he says Hodling, because he's literally talking about holding, but he misspelled it as Hodling. So I just don't understand. And I get that American Hodl identifies as Hodl. That's totally fine. I respect that. But it is Hodling. Case closed. But maybe it's worthwhile just reading that. For those who aren't aware or think that, first of all, Hodl does not mean hold on for dear life. I don't know who told you that. It was probably, like, cnbc. But they're wrong. But the actual meme. And, you know, maybe I'll. Maybe I'll just pop this on screen. Let's see. Let's see here. Can I get this up on screen? I need my producer. Jamie, where are you at? Could we pull that up? No. Okay, we'll see, we'll see. But this guy really just. I mean, there's a reason it became one of the most epic memes ever, right? Like, he captured the. The Zeitgeist. Okay, let's see. Here it is.

I am Hodling. I typed that title twice because I knew it was wrong the first time. Still wrong. Whatever. GF's out at a lesbian bar. I don't have a GF. I do have a beautiful wife who is currently snugly asleep in our bed. Our little son is asleep in our crib, but. And maybe I wonder if this guy married his girlfriend again. I digress. BTC crashing. Why am I Hodling. Holding. Actually said holding this time. Why am I holding? I'll tell you why. It's because I'm a bad trader. And I know I'm a bad trader. Yeah, you good traders can spot the highs and the lows. Pit Pat, Piffy, Wing, Wong, Wang, just like that, and make a million O bucks no problem, bro. Likewise, the weak hands are like, oh, no, it's going down. I'm going to sell. He, he, he. And then they're like, oh, God, my asshole. When the smart traders who know what the fuck they're doing buy back in. But you know what? I'm not part of that group. When the traders buy back in, I'm already part of the market capital. So guess who you're cheating day traders. Not me. Exclamation point. Those taunt threads saying, oh, you should have sold. Yeah, no shit, no shit, I should have sold. I should have sold moments before every sell and bought moments before every buy. But you know what? Not everybody is as cool as you. You only sell in a bear market if you're a good day trader or an illusioned noob, the people in between hold. In a zero sum game such as this, traders can only take your money if you sell. So I've had some whiskey, actually, in the bottle. It's spelled whiskey. Whatever. Sue me. But only if it's payable in btc. What a fucking legend. And also, like, this is kind of like.

The reason this is so beautiful is because it just. It still rings true. Like, everybody has felt this. Like, I'm a terrible trader, right? I dabble in some of the like, like, with like a inconsequential amount of money, dabble in some of the, you know, the bitcoin treasury companies and whatnot. Because I like to remind myself of what a shitty trader I am. Like, I like to get wrecked just a little bit. So it's like, oh, you know what, I should have just bought bitcoin. Or if I do outperform like a little bit over a low time frame and manage to convert something into bitcoin, it's like, wow, I just spent way much, like so much more time than I should have paying attention to the charts of things that aren't bitcoin when I could have just been, like, living my life or doing something productive or focusing my craft or spending time with my family. But instead I like, wasted all this time trying to eke out a couple extra percentage points on top of the best performing asset in the fucking history of the world. And I was like, oh, I'll just beat bitcoin. Like, no, you're just not going to beat bitcoin. Like, some people will. Some people are good traders. Like, some just super autists. Like, I'm not autistic enough to be a truly good trader. I'm a bad trader. And so are you, most likely. I'm sorry if that hurts. And if you're listening to this right now, you're like, I'm not a bad trader. I'm a fucking good trader. I can spot the highs and lows. Pit, buff, 50 wing, wang, wang. Like, you're probably not. You're probably not. You're probably going to get wrecked. And even if you do well, like, did you do well in dollar terms or did you do well in bitcoin terms? Because they're very different things. And if you're not beating out bitcoin, like, what is the fucking point? Like, literally, what is the. What is the point? There, there is no point. And like, if you're not beating bitcoin by a ridiculous margin, there's very much no point. You need. You would need to be absolutely crushing bitcoin's returns for it to be worth your time, but the reality is that you probably won't. And also, like, I don't know, man, it's like, what's the point of that? Like, you can just set a DCA for bitcoin. You can just set an hourly, a daily, a weekly, or all three. Hell, why not multiple of all three? I don't know.

You can save in bitcoin. You can focus on creating value in Some way. Hopefully that's by starting a podcast. As we all know, starting a podcast is the highest form of value creation one could ever attain. And you should be starting a bitcoin podcast if you're listening to this right now. If you're up at. For me, it's 11:30pm on a Friday night listening to me rant on a live stream. You should be starting a podcast. You should be hosting a competing live stream right now. Maybe we should be live streaming together. I don't know. But you could be creating value that way. And in the background, you could just be automatically, DCA Bitcoin. And I think a lot of you are like, if you are one of the psychopaths who is listening to this right now, first of all, cheers for being here. Thank you for being here. I'm really glad that you are. I'm really glad that you are. And what's up, Nathan? I see, I see you, I see you in the comments there. How you doing, man? But yeah, if, like, if you are listening to this right now, you're. You are probably one of the psychopaths who has just been dcing in the background like, you're probably one of the psychopaths who has just been silently, quietly accumulating bitcoin and going about your life, spending time with your family. Like, that is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Also, Nathan, I'm about to just send you. I'm about to drop you the. The link for this, man. You can jump in here if you want to. Why not? Let's just open it. Let's open it right up.

But, like.

That'S all you have to do.

You should look at this as a beautiful opportunity to stack more corn. You should not be viewing it as like, oh, this is the fucking end of the world. I was promised Valhalla, like, this year. You know, all my favorite caps Lock Moon boys told me bitcoin was going to at least 444,000 and all I got was bip. 444.

No, man.

It'S going to be okay. It's going to be just fine. Bitcoin is going to do what bitcoin's going to do at the moment. This is the funny thing about human psychology. And I don't pretend to understand fucking human psychology. I don't, you know, I try to. I don't pretend, pretend to really understand the moment that you think you've got it figured out, the moment that you're like, you know what? Maybe I just need to sell and I'll buy back Lower man. That is the moment where bitcoin just takes your face, rips it off and wears it and puts it on its face. You know, it puts your face on bitcoin, puts your face on bitcoin's face and it's like you see, motherfucker, I fucking got you. And that's going to happen every single time. Like that very moment. You know.

It's a good reminder. It's a good reminder that like, you know the, the cliches about investing or trading or whatever. Like the, it's not about timing the market, it's about time in the market. Like they're cliches for a reason. They're cliches because they're true. They're cliches because it's really good advice. You shouldn't try to out trade, you shouldn't try to, you know, figure out the market. You shouldn't try to time this thing. You should just stack.

Spot bitcoin via dollar cost average and fucking live your life. That is the best thing that you could ever do. And that is the beauty of bitcoin too, because you shouldn't have to be fucking watching charts all the time. You shouldn't have to be a master investor just to get by. That is like the biggest, fucking biggest con that Fiat has pulled on us. The biggest just honestly rip off is that somehow Fiat has convinced everyone that you need to be. Not only, you know, do you need to like, you need to work and your wife needs to work and maybe, you know, like you need to work like multiple jobs and like you need to work jobs just like at least one, you know, both of you need to work just so that one of your salaries can go entirely just to spending, you know, spending on your kids, childcare, like which just doesn't make any fucking sense. Like, you know. But okay, I digress. So many digressions. I apologize guys. But like the biggest con that Fiat has pulled is that everyone needs to be like to have two jobs, right? You need to have your, your job stacking Fiat, which is always depreciating, but because it's always depreciating because you're constantly getting debased by a fucking cartel, a cabal of central bankers who have absolute control over the monetary system because you're constantly being debased. You have to have a second job or maybe it's your third because you already have two, maybe it's your fourth because you already have three, I don't know. But you need to have another job which is trying to Invest to beat the rate of inflation, right? You have to spend so much time, an inordinate amount of time, just trying to keep pace with or beat inflation, just trying to keep your head above water so the fruits of your labor are not debased to oblivion, are inflated to oblivion. Bitcoin completely changes that paradigm because you no longer have to spend all this time trying to figure out how you're going to beat the fiat debasement. It's bitcoin. That's the answer. You just stack bitcoin. You just set a dca, and when bitcoin dips a little bit, maybe you smash, buy a little bit, get a little crazy. But that's all you have to do. That's it. Like, you don't have to do anything crazy. You don't have to be a genius trader. You don't have to do anything besides just stack Bitcoin. And that's really hard, I think, for a lot of people. It's hard because we've been told that.

You have to do all these things, that you have to be this expert trader, right? That you have to be this somehow, this. This. This genius, you know, who's able to. Oh, and what's. Hold on. We've got Nathan in the lobby right now. I love this. An impromptu live stream that turns into a bitcoin podcasting party. We're letting Nathan in here. Nathan. What's up, dude?

[B]

I was in the middle of cleaning and I was like, oh, Walker's live. Oh, my goodness. Let's check this out. Let's see what's going on here. And I got a second.

[A]

Let me throw my wired. My. My sick Wired headphones. How many extra? Do it up. Oh, thank God. My MacBook Pro has some extra ports here. Let's. Let's throw these in there. Been trying to use wired headphones so I don't get baked by Bluetooth as much.

[B]

No. Fair enough. I'm too bad with my earbuds all the time.

[A]

They're basically more 24.

[B]

7. Oh, we'll make them more. We'll find our way there. I'm just happy to see that you're hanging out live. Goddamn equipment. This is it. Fuck it. We'll do it live, right?

[A]

We'll do it fucking live. You hearing. You hear an extra reverb on my side?

[B]

No. You sound clear as day to me. You sound absolutely gorgeous. Wonderful. That deep.

[A]

What?

[B]

Baritone voice. I'm so envious of your mic. I still have not upgraded mine yet, and I've just been eyeing yours.

[A]

This whole time that way. Are you talking microphones or voices?

[B]

Microphone.

[A]

Well, both.

[B]

Both are actually absolutely wonderful. But that SM, was it SM7B?

[A]

Yeah. It's sick.

[B]

Every time I go to buy one, it's like, no, I gotta do other things. I gotta put it in bitcoin. I'm hoping Christmas will be nice to me.

[A]

I, you know, I believe. I believe that it will. I believe that it will. And let's see if I can get this hooked up. If not, as long as you're not here in reverb, then, honestly, it's all good by me. I just want to make sure that I'm not getting. Giving you a little double. So, you know, I decided I'm. Again, I'm not a. I'm not a live streamer, right? It's like, it's not my. My thing, but tonight the wife was in bed, the kid was in bed, and I was like, let me just. Let just pop on here and just see what happens. And now look at this. Now we've got a little. Little podconf going on. And. Great, I'm hearing you through the. The airpod. I'm baking my noodle a little bit with this Bluetooth. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. I don't know, man. How are you doing? So the reason I wanted to hop on here is because I figured there were probably some other psychopaths like me who are up late on a Friday night who are not out at the bar doing something like that, who are like, you know what, just thinking about bitcoin and maybe scrolling on X or scrolling on nostr and thinking, man, everybody's super bearish right now. But I'll be honest, I'm like, I'm just really weirdly bullish right now. I don't know about you. Like, you feel that I'm kind of.

[B]

With you in the same sense that just like something doesn't feel quite right. And it feels so anticlimactic as well too. Also, just the mood and the tenor for where we are. It's like, guys, it was so much worse in 2022. Like, there's. There's. There's nothing to be upset about. Be patient, be calm. And you know what it is? It's like, I'm unbelievably bullish on bitcoin. I wrote a newsletter about this actually this morning as well, too. I'm temporarily. I think this is a phase. I'm temporarily actually bearish on bitcoin culture, which is why I was so excited to see that you're a live stream. It's like, yes, this is exactly what I needed right now. I almost get the sense that from the ETFs and the derivatives and the treasury companies and all these things too, that we kind of, we kind of got soft from our own victory in the sense that like, when I came into Bitcoin, it was, it got wrapped up in my identity very quickly, right? I identified with the people and the culture and everything was going on there. There's this monetary revolution of basically like cypherpunk pirates. It's like, oh, I want to be on their team. I'm here to change the world. This sounds absolutely amazing to me. But with the success over maybe like the last year of the institutional adoption and it just became another asset in people's portfolios. It didn't, it's. It's no one, no one identifies or has like a, A culture Behind S&P 500, right, or commodities futures. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. And so I, like, I found myself wondering why did retail not get in here? And I mean, James Jack had some great, great insight and we both talked to him with regards to. There were other alternatives in terms of like, number go up technology. But I think a part of it is, it's just like the inspiring characters that we have in Bitcoin. That like, sense of freedom and hope and optimism. It was kind of like winning the mainstream and the institutional side kind of, I think took the. Let me say we got, we got soft in our victory. And then additionally too, with the favorable conditions in the Trump administration, the way things are kind of going as well too. It's almost like we needed an adversary to be that inspirational kind of like underdog story. And I think that's why it feels like. It feels like a weird bear market. But I think it's just because we don't have our people here necessarily rallying or the newcomers. I don't really think I've met anybody that's like a class of 20, 25, dude.

[A]

Honestly, that's a really great point. And also I'd just like to point out that apparently X has. I don't know if X kicked me off the live stream or if the live stream just died, but it looks like it's still live on YouTube, which.

[B]

Is definitely still live on YouTube.

[A]

Okay. Which, which is good. You know, man, I'm just not good at this live streaming thing. I. I like, clearly, I like. I don't. I swear I didn't do anything, though. I Didn't. I swear I didn't piss off the X gods. I just. I don't know. I guess apparently, maybe. I don't know what I did. I don't know what I did, Nathan. But you're absolutely right. Like, something. There's just a weird. There's a weird vibe to things right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, I. I think a lot of it is the institutional side of things where it's like, everybody thought, like, wow, these bitcoin treasury companies, everything, they're buying so much bitcoin. And it's like. But then it's like one OG whale sells 80,000 coins and that just, like, wipes out every bitcoin treasury company by. Except for strategy. Right? Like, which, like, people. I think. I think that people don't entirely realize. And, like, also OG Whale selling is like, a good thing. Like, the distribution of coins is a very good thing. Like, that is a healthy thing. That's what's going to naturally happen.

But it's. It's uncomfortable for people because they're like, why number not go up faster? And it's like, well, because there's guys with tens of thousands of coins who have held them for, you know, 15 years who are selling now, and they're selling way more coins than the treasury companies are buying. And, yeah, plebs like you and I are having our DCA buy us a few more SATs, and we're like, yeah, but like, for a lot of people, like, it's an interesting point about, like, not knowing about class of 2025 people. But I'm wondering also, it's like, maybe class 2025 people, just like, you know, they're just not on. They're not an X or they're not a noster or whatever. Like, they're not as vocal. Maybe they're just silently stacking. And right now maybe they're feeling some pain. I don't know. Maybe they. Maybe they are here on YouTube. Maybe they're here watching this stream right now because they can't be watching it on X anymore, apparently, because X just kicked me off these. These sons of bitches. But, yeah, I don't know. The vibes are weird, but I'm. I'm just feeling bullish, like, I can't help it. What if you could lower your tax bill and stack bitcoin at the same time? Well, by mining bitcoin with blockware, you can. New tax guidelines from the big beautiful bill allow American miners to write off 100% of the cost of their mining hardware in a single tax year. That is right, a 100% write off. So if you have $100,000 in capital gains or income, you can purchase $100,000 worth of miners and offset it entirely. Blockware's mining as a service enables you to start mining right now without lifting a finger. Blockware handles everything from securing the miners to sourcing low cost power to configuring the mining pool. They do it all. You get to stack Bitcoin at a discount every single day while also saving big come tax season. Get started today by going to mining.blockware solutions.com TitCoin Again, that's mining.blockware solutions.com titcoin Use the code TitCoin to get $100 off your first miner when using the Blockware Marketplace. Of course, none of this is tax advice from me. Go speak with the team at Blockware to learn more one more time. That is mining.blockwaresolutions.com tcoin wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin? LEDN makes that possible. The global leader in Bitcoin backed lending, LEDN has issued over $10 billion in loans since 2018 and has a perfect record of protecting client assets. Why is a leaden loan different? Well, with custody loans, collateral is not lent out to generate interest, no credit checks, no monthly payments. Apply in minutes and repay whenever you want with zero penalties and proof of reserves. Reports verified by a top accounting firm are published every six months. LEDN gives Bitcoin holders a secure transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling. Learn more@ledden IO Walker that's L E D N dot I O forward slash Walker hey everyone, quick word from my sponsor Blockstream. Right now through the end of 2025 they are running their biggest sale yet. 21% off every blockstream Jade hardware wallet. No code needed. This is the lowest price you'll see all year on the most trusted Bitcoin only hardware wallet on the planet. Bitcoiners will always tell you not your keys, not your coins because they've seen exchange after exchange fail over the years and rug people of their funds. Having a hardware wallet means you never have to worry about that happening to you. Blockstream Jade is the simplest, most secure way to protect your bitcoin. Whether you're brand new or a hardcore stacker. Its sleek low profile design, full color display and dead simple setup lets you secure your sats in minutes. As your stack grows, Jade scales with you. Air Gap set up fully functional QR mode with the built built in camera native Multi sig support and tons more advanced features. Head to store.blockstream.com right now. The 21% holiday discount is live now through December 31st and you can use coupon code walker for an additional 10% off. Stock is limited at these prices and once they're gone, they are gone. Secure your wealth today before the next leg up. Grab your jade [e-mail] and rest easy like Satoshi intended. Now back to the show.

[B]

I agree. It's funny how it's for the longest time like coins being centralized, like, oh, it's only controlled by a handful of people. Was the fud. And now that those are being distributed, which is like the wonderful free market in action, it's now that's the new fud, right? The whales are selling. It's like the whales are holding or the whales are selling. Like, pick one. Guys, what's the issue here? This is always going to be the natural progression. And for me, I think actually one of the most bullish things about this is the death of the four year cycle narrative that because I think things just don't become exciting again until they're not predictable. Right? If everyone feels like they know what's going to happen and we're going to get the same rally into the end of the year, it loses its mystery. People have to feel like there's a chance that it's going to rocket up or like they don't know what's necessarily going to happen next. For it to get exciting again, it has to be adventurous.

[A]

I kind of like that.

People are like, who is. I think it was, I forget if it was. I was talking to American Huddle but he was like, or maybe it was Nico. I don't remember multiple people have said this to me. But like, like, look, we're, listen, we're we're all just addicted to dopamine. Like, yeah, that, that, that's what it comes down to. Like every, everyone here is, is addicted to dopamine. And you know what that's like when the dopamine doesn't hit hard enough. That's, that's why like, like, or like bitcoin is not pumping hard enough for you. It's somehow boring to you, even though it's sitting at 95,000 fiat cuck bucks per coin. And it's like you're just addicted to dopamine. Like you, you just want that hard hitting, that insanely hard hitting rally, right? But you're just not getting it. And so you're like, well, fuck this. Like, I don't know, I'm bored with this now. I'm bearish like all of a sudden, but it's like nothing has changed. Like this is actually like such an insanely bullish week with just everything happening with, with, with Square. I mean like Square and, and, and, and Cash app. Like for medium of exchange wise, this was an insanely, insanely bullish week. But here people are just like more, more bearish than ever, which is just. I. I don't know. I don't know, man.

[B]

It's like the volatility was always supposed to be the. Yes, the volatility was always supposed to be the icing, the cherry on top. It was a nice thing that came with it. But there's all this meaning in this mission behind it and it goes back to like that idea. I kind of around culture in the sense that you're right, that like it's like they only came for the sugar, right? It's like. No, no, no, that like that's the fun part. That's fun. We love the dopamine. We love the giant crash. We love the giant rally up as well too. But you're right, what Jack Dorsey and Square and Cash app did this week is massive. And not even just from medium of exchange. The, the cultural significance, like the psychological significance of seeing that bitcoin logo on every fucking terminal. Sorry all the way through.

[A]

And swear you can say thank you.

[B]

I wasn't sure. I was like, oh crap, I got to pull my.

[A]

I was saying retard a lot earlier. And I was like, oh, I'm so.

[B]

Glad that we're back.

[A]

And I was like, oh, is If I say YouTube, is that going to get me kicked off? Like, I don't know. I guess we'll see. Like, we'll find out. But yeah, continue.

[B]

No, you're right in the sense that like we're absolutely winning on some of the most critical points too. And you can look at kind of like the reverse side of the coin too. And like, like the whole issue with like the 50 year mortgages and Canada's looking at UBI, it's like you can look at the positives of what bitcoin is going to do and you can look at the negatives, what Fiat's about to do and either way it's kind of a win. So being bearish here is just, it's just you're not getting your dopamine fixed, but there's so much more that's available too. Right? You've got great builders in the Space coming out with awesome stuff all the time as well too. Right. Like there's. I've got tech to report on every week because somebody's building something phenomenal. Right? It's, it's, it's. It's a weird time. It's a weird vibe. But I think it's just because you're right. We have a. Maybe we're. Maybe we were a dopamine addicted crowd and we lost our fix there for a little bit. So everyone's just kind of hurting and finding their new, finding their new base. We might have to get some withdraw, go through some withdrawals on this one. Maybe it is like post Eat Gold etf, right? Where it's just this kind of slow grind up over the next 10 years, which would not be exciting, which would be totally appropriate and kind of normal as well too. So maybe we just got to adjust to a, a different sort of, different sort of lifestyle. I think that's okay.

[A]

I think Jack Made is someone who talks about this a lot. Like the idea that like bitcoin just gonna like bore you to a million, you know, it's just gonna. Yeah. Like you're just, you're gonna be bored the whole time. Then all of a sudden it's gonna be like, well, oh, that's like, like I get. I guess we're at. I guess we're at a million right now. Okay, well, okay, there we go. We're there fine. Like, and I feel like that is kind of like the vibe of what's happening right now is just.

Everyone is kind of getting a little complacent. Getting a little bit like, okay, well, I guess this was the worst bull run in history. And it's like, I just don't think the bull run has even started yet, you know, Like, I just don't even, I don't even think. I don't even think we're there yet. I think that we're just right in the, in the early innings. And it's interesting what you brought about the four year cycle because there's been so much debate about this, right? Like that's like that, you know, it's honestly become like almost its own cliche at this point. Like, you know, the four year cycles are dead, but like, are they dead? But like, did they ever exist? Like, I don't know. And I don't know. I'm a little torn. This part of me just thinks that like, yes, obviously the havings have an impact on new supply entering, but they also have a diminishing impact, right? Havings will like necessarily have a diminishing impact, but by the same token, like the fiat price of bitcoin at each having like keeps going up. So like, okay, they have like a diminishing bitcoin impact, but they have like also an increasing fiat impact. Like that's like, that's tough to quantify. Right? Like, like the, the block Reward now of 3.125 Bitcoin is worth so much more than the 50 Bitcoin block reward back in the day. But you know, it's still a diminishing, diminishing impact in terms of the bitcoin and exponentially so. But I don't know, it just, it feels like in prior or like in the prior cycles, first of all, they happen to line up with elections. I don't know if that's purposeful.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Like US elections at least. And like a lot of world elections. But they happen to line up with elections. They've happened to coincide with kind of fiat liquidity cycles as well. Okay. And then, but as we go forward it's like, but what if those like, okay, elections are going to keep going?

[B]

Right?

[A]

We're going to keep kind of lining up with elections, but like fiat liquidity cycles. I don't know, man.

Bitcoin was pumping during Biden as they had the, went into like, the Fed went into some of the biggest monetary tightening, relatively speaking in history. So like that kind of breaks a little bit of the paradigm there. Like monetary conditions were tightening and yet bitcoin was, was pumping. So like, how does that work? And now it's like they're loosening and bitcoin's dipping. So like, okay, but then it's like again, I just come back to like on a long enough time frame, bitcoin is just going to beat the pants off of absolutely everything else. And that's why I feel this just general sense of Zen right now because it's like, yes, am I watching? You know, the, the fiat value of my stack fluctuate wildly. Sure. But I know what I hold. Like I, I know that I have bitcoin. Like I have real bitcoin. I have it in self custody. I have it in, in multi sig, right? Like I can't even spend it if I want it to without doing a lot of traveling. Like, let's just say that like I got to do a lot of work to be able to spend any, any bitcoin. It's like, like maybe too much work. Honestly, it's, it's really difficult. But I was like I want to make it so that if somebody ever comes and tries to put a, put a, you know, put a gun to my head, like there's nothing I can do, there's nothing I can do. It'll take a long time. Also I'll have a gun to your head first. I mean this, I is, this is the kind of stuff that gets me kicked off of YouTube. I just, I don't even know. I hope not.

[B]

No, you're totally fine.

[A]

Metaphorically also and or figuratively.

[B]

So in Minecraft I remember with Tom Luongo he was always like we're going to kill the politicians in Minecraft. Not a game, the game, not real life. He always throws that like little prefix at the end there too. The only thing I ever got in trouble from was actually someone telling their previous stories of like abuse. And I think there was a little bit of touch of stories of self harm as well too without using those words particularly. That was the only one that I think ever saw. I got flagged on the back end for me. But no, I think you're absolutely right. It's funny because this is my idiot pleb opinion but as you were talking there the thing kind of struck me and I forget what this effect is called but it's something regarding like having perceived value because it had value yesterday. Like the reason that you think your money's gonna have value tomorrow or people accept that money has value tomorrow is because it had money yesterday. It's always kind of rear facing effect and so it can decline slowly over time. But like you know, $100 is good today. It's probably going to be somewhat close to that tomorrow just based on recent memory of it too. And I wonder how much of the four year cycle was just an echo of the early days. Because you're right, in the early days the mining subsidy meant a lot more in terms of the again stock to flow. Right again stupid model. But the idea is still there in terms of the available supply, what's going on and who the big sellers are. The sellers are coming from miners. Miners are the ones that are mostly selling I think at that point in time. And so I wonder how much of like it had an effect. Maybe cycle one, maybe cycle two as well too. But it was almost like just a psychological echo of just like it happened for the early people for the first point. So they just continued to. It was like a self fulfilling prophecy. It was just a psychological effect and that's why it's dwindling over time even more so than the, the Subsidy decreasing or in tandem with it. That it was just. They. It was the. That was the expectations. And as we go forward, that just declines and declines and declines until it's no longer the expectation.

[A]

Yeah. I mean.

What'S that one saying? It's like.

Happiness is like expectations minus reality or something to that effect. And I think that kind of like, that plays into the psychology here, where if you think that you were really sure that bitcoin was just going to melt faces and it was going to be October and Moonvember and all these things, and now it's like bitcoin is like, bitcoin's down from when Trump got in, from Trump's inauguration, I think, which is kind of, like, kind of wild.

[B]

Right back to the beginning.

[A]

But really, like, you know, I'm looking at, like, I opened an account on River, I think, just before Trump's. Just before Trump got elected, by the way. I'm not sponsored by river. Just like their product. It's a. It's a solid.

[B]

If they'd like to. If they're listening, I'm sure you take it.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and. But if you're listening to this. Yeah, please, I will. I will take some SATs, especially right now, you know, but. But I, you know, I started stacking that, and it's like, I look at the, like, my bitcoin return. It's like, it's, like, flat or, like, even, like, down a little bit now because I was also, like, when bitcoin, like, popped up and then starts, like, you know, to, like, 126 and, like, it dropped down to 110. I'm like, yeah, Smash Buy. And now it's like, with drop down to, you know, 95. And I'm like, I'm really low on Fiat. Like, I do not have very much Fiat at, like, there is, you know, it's. I like not having a lot of Fiat. That said, it's like, damn, when. When, you know, when the dip keeps dipping, you're like, I wish I had a little bit more Fiat. But at the same time, again, like, where you get hurt is not where. Where it's like, oh, you know what? I. Yeah, I wish I had a little bit more Fiat. I'm like, you know, I'm, quote, overexposed to bitcoin right now. It's like, no, no, that's. That's not really like, where you get. Where you get wrecked. Where you get wrecked is if you were underexposed to bitcoin and you were overexposed to non Bitcoin things or some sort of synthetic bitcoin. And now you're like, shit, I'm. I'm down in dollar terms and I'm down in bitcoin terms even more. That's the dangerous position to be in. Like, if your bitcoin stack is down a little bit in dollar terms, like, it's okay, they're going to keep printing dollars. There's 21 million bitcoin. That's it. There's literally infinite dollars. And it's not just infinite dollars. There's infinite euros. There's really infinite. There's double infinity, Turkish lira and Argentine pesos and all these others. Like, you know, the dollar sucks. The dollar's the worst, except for all the rest. It's a skinniest kid at fat camp, Prettiest horse of the glue factory. Whatever you want to say, but, like, where you get hurt is when you are underexposed to bitcoin, overexposed to other shit. And so not only do you not have any sort of, quote, dry powder, but you also just are down bad in dollar terms. You're down really bad in bitcoin terms. And I think that's where, like, clearly, like, one thing that this. I haven't been around bitcoin that long, just been since 2020 that I started stacking. But, like, one thing that I've realized this kind of cycle time around is that, man, the like, quote, crypto people are super short bitcoin. Like, they are way long, all of their shitcoins and they are way short bitcoin. And they're freaking out because, like, they're. Because that's a. That's the worst position to be in. It's like you've got big shitcoin bags and nobody's coming to buy a man like that. That party's just. That party's just over. Like, there's not going to be any giant alt season. Like, I'm sorry to break it to you, like, you're. You're wrecked right now. Like, you may as well cut your losses, sell whatever shitcoins you happen to have and try to get as much bitcoin as you possibly can. Because that, that is what. Like, that's the only thing that's going to save you at this point. Like, it's not going to be your. Your fart coin or your other shit coin. Like, it's going to be bitcoin. But, like, a lot of people just like you, they got to learn the hard way, right? And that sucks. But, like, you know I'm sorry, like it's the reality.

[B]

I completely agree. The, the, the unfortunate thing there too and it's the kind of goes back to the culture a little bit too is that at least from what I can see from the brief times that I like float through like crypto Twitter or some of the shitcoin stuff that's going on there. They, they do there tends to be because the toxic bitcoin maximalist there is kind of a like an anti bitcoin stack which unfortunately it just letting their ego get in the way. And then you're right, they're super. They're like taking these crypto positions and having a stack of bitcoin. They're going short bitcoin and going along all these crypto things thinking is going to die and it's going to get ethic of the wreck. But I want to ask you Walker, because.

For me this time around, so if you would have asked me in September, particularly if I thought that it was going to be up at the end of the year, I absolutely would have told you, like, yeah, I bet you were finishing up at the end of the year. I wouldn't be surprised to see little run. But here's the thing and I'll see if I can articulate. I would have logically told you that like yeah, if I was betting that's what I expect. I did not have an emotional swing the cycle at all. Like I did not have like I emotionally felt like, you know, I mean like we're like I, like I knew that it was going to run up or I felt excitement about going into November and these things too. Like it, this, this end of year I would have logically deduced that it was going to be up. But I don't even feel surprised or shocked that it's down. I'm wondering if you had the same sort of response. Whereas back in like the, what is it, 20, 21 run I was pumped. I, I took, I used line of credit at the top of that thing. My wife thought I was an idiot. Eventually we found our way back to that one but I was like ready to go this time it was like, yeah, I think it's going to be up. But like you couldn't have talked me into taking like a 2% loan. It's like, no, no, I'm good. I'll just keep stacking the old fashioned way. There was no, I had no excitement going into the end of the year. Despite thinking logically it would go up.

[A]

I, I, I feel exactly that. Like I I, I also thought like, I was like, yeah, like, we're probably gonna. This feels like we're gonna kind of keep pumping into the, the end of the year and, and continue going. But I, I just, I don't know, something felt like awful little bit. Like, did my behavior change drastically? Like, no. Like, I just, I kept dcing, like, because that's, that's what I do again, like, I'm not good at buying. If I saw a little bit of a dip, I. If I had some spare Fiat, I did a little smash buy, you know. But like, I, I love my dca. Just does it without me having to do anything. Like, it's fantastic. And just kind of kept that going and like now, now where we're at though, where it's like, oh, wow. I didn't, you know, didn't necessarily think we were going to drop down here, but like, since we are, okay, I'm going to kind of redouble my efforts, try to like cut, you know, cut expenses as I can in my, in my life and like try to stack a little bit of extra bitcoin. Because if they're. Again, I've, I've really, I guess, only been around if we're going by the cycle theory. Like, I started stacking like during COVID right? Yeah, that was, you know, when I started saying I didn't have like a giant mountain of cash that I dumped into bitcoin. It was like I started just DCA then too. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But man, when bitcoin went down to like 16k, I was like, I, I gotta, you know, like, gotta try and like get as many sats as I can. Right? And like that's kind of what it feels like right now. A little bit.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

This feels to me like more like, oh, wow, we took a bigger dip than people thought we would. And that means because everyone else is super fucking bearish right now or just like not even bearish, just like maybe not even paying attention. Like, still. That's the other thing. Like most of the world still isn't even paying attention, Nathan.

[B]

Like, most people, I just looked at Google trends. It's like all time low for the year.

[A]

Most people just don't care, right? Like, but that's the other thing. It's like that, that meme of like, you know, the, the two. The two stands, right? And it's like, you know, bitcoin at like whatever low number, then bitcoin at all time highs. And it's like everybody's lined up to buy it when it's at, you know, all time high. And like, it's true. Like, something about human psychology is like, you don't. People don't want to buy bitcoin when they definitely should, and they really want to buy bitcoin when it's melting everyone's faces off. Because that's when it pops up in the news again. But when it's, when it's bearish, everyone who doesn't own bitcoin is like, well, it's a good thing I didn't buy, you know, again, right? You know, like, I'm glad I've ignored that since it was $10,000 or, you know, worse. But like, it just feels right now. And again, maybe we go lower, maybe we go back to 58k gang. Because 58, I don't know, maybe like, honestly, like, as rough as that would be, like, and that would be rough, that would be an incredible stacking opportunity because that's if you know it's going to keep going up. It is like there's 21 million guys, there's 21 million Bitcoin. There's infinite fiat currencies, not just infinite dollars, infinite other fiat currencies. There's infinite shit coins. There's infinite. All of these fucking made up fucking things, but there is 21 million Bitcoin. Like, you don't have to be a genius to work this out. Like, you can be far left curve or far, you know, right side of the bell curve. Like, as long as you're not mid curving it, you're going to be okay. Just like more bitcoin. Good. Like that is like that, that is what you need, you know. But again, it's like maybe this is kind of the opportunity too, like for, for the psychopaths who are out there watching this stream right now, for the people who are out there watching their DCAs hit and trying to figure out how they can maybe cut some expenses around, around the house to, to, you know, be able to stack a few more SATs. Like, you will be rewarded for this. You will be rewarded for this. And it may suck right now, but you can, you know, fast forward a little bit. Fast forward a year, fast forward four years, fast forward 20 years, and boy, like, you will be thanking yourself. You know, your, your, your children and your grandchildren will be like, wow, you know, legend like you, you, you know, you doubled down, you didn't get that extra avocado toast and you stacked the extra sats with it and now what could have been avocado toast now buys us a French villa. Like Fantastic, Grandpapa. Like, that's. That's where you're gonna be at right now. Like, probably legitimately. Like, I bet if you. The price of an avocado toast right now, if you go forward 50 years, I bet that buys you a modest French villa in sats.

[B]

It's gonna be insane.

[A]

Nominated in sats, but.

[B]

It'S going to be absolutely insane. It's funny, there's. There's a couple things you hit on there that I want to. I want to get your thoughts on. One was I was trying to think back something you talking about 58k gain, and that's what it reminded me of the last time I had an emotional response in bitcoin. And again, I'm a very level person by my very nature. Not very high, very low. Like, don't get stressed out. I'm very, very comfortable here. The last time I was like, oh, this feels good. Was the final don't stop believing. When we hit 100k and yellow's final, like, spaces, I just remember being like, I actually, like, hit the heartstrings a little bit. I was like, man, he did this the entire way through. So going back to like 58k and going back to those times, I would not have an issue with that. Was a lot of fun on Twitter, for sure. And then the other thing that struck me that I'm curious your thoughts on was you mentioned Covid. I wonder if that's kind of a little bit what's going on here in the sense like that. That is like borrowing from the future and pulling forward demand, too. Right. I wonder if Covid was such a shock to the system and to people as well, too, that we talked about how it would wake up a lot of people and it did wake up a ton. Right. I wonder if we, like, pulled forward bitcoiner demand. Like, we had a greater influx of bitcoiners because of the extremes of COVID but it meant there wasn't really a new class to come in later on. You kind of get what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, no, go. Go ahead, go ahead.

[B]

That's essentially the idea that, like, I wonder if. If you were going to wake up to it with it, if you weren't going to wake up to it with how bad things were over Covid, you really weren't going to wake up to it unless something worse comes along later or something else kicks you in the teeth. So it was almost like we reached forward in time and grabbed a whole bunch of bitcoiners, but that might the vast majority of those that were possible to unplug over the next five years, which is why it feels different now where I'm feeling like we're not getting this new cohort coming in. We might have already scooped them up because that was such a terrible wake up call for people across the world.

[A]

Okay. So that, that's interesting and I, I feel that sentiment, but like, to play devil's advocate there, it's also like, do it. We're just such. We're still at such an early stage of adoption.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

We're still so incredibly early. Now, I think that the argument is fair that perhaps that woke up more like hardcore toxic bitcoin maximalist early adopters, innovators. I think we're like, we're technically like still at the like the innovator phase. Right? Like, we're. Because we're barely at like, maybe, I don't know, like, you could say we're at like a percent adoption. Maybe like, of like, probably not even. And like total addressable market wise, like, there's the. You know, Jesse Myers Croesus has that great chart that's been shared everywhere. A thousand trillion in global asset value. 2 trillion or less than 2 trillion now, you know, in Bitcoin, just under 2 trillion. So it's like 0.2% of total addressable asset value. That's nothing. And like total adoption wise in terms of like, globally, like, I don't know, probably not even a percent. Like maybe a half a percent of like. And probably even less than that of people who actually, like, hold their own keys. Yeah.

[B]

I think Jake said he estimated like 2 million. It's like that. That sounds about right to me. And that's an 8 billion. Yeah, that sounds about right.

[A]

Like, which is just crazy. But I think that's your. Your statement is fair in the sense that perhaps Covid woke, like, it certainly, you know, did for me, like, speaking from personal experience, like, very much woke me up. And like, that's what made me decide to actually go down the bitcoin rabbit hole and figure out. Because they started sending out checks to people. I'm like, what, what is this? Where does this money come from? And you know, then you start asking the right questions. But, but, but, but maybe. Yeah. What? How? And it's like, we just, just like that. We just make it. We just print it digitally. It's amazing. But maybe that did bring out a lot more of the hardcore toxic bitcoin maximalist plebs that were going to come out eventually. But just like they. We just all Kind of a lot of us just came out at once, and now there's just a little bit more of a trickle. And maybe the, you know, the rest of the adoption curve just looks a bit different. Like, you just look. And it's also like, I was talking to. To Alex Fetzky about this, and he. He brought the fact that he's like, look, like when it comes to adoption curves, like, bitcoin's not the iPhone. Like, it's not. Like it's not a consumer product. You know, it's like, it's different. Like, it's money. And he made the point that when it's the iPhone, it's like your. Your potential, you know, loss there with, you know, buying an iPhone is like. It's like, you know, whatever, a couple hundred, five hundred, a thousand, whatever dollars. With bitcoin, it's like everything for you. For most of us, the cost of being wrong is much, much higher. The cost of being wrong about an iPhone is pretty low. Pretty low. Relatively speaking. You'll recover. And so the adoption curve, maybe it just. We don't know what the adoption curve looks like. We know what technology adoption curves generally look like, that classic S curve, but we've never had something like bitcoin. Like, you know, what is the adoption curve of a digital gold that's also way better than gold, because you can transfer it instantly 24 7, 365, and no one can stop you to anyone around the world. And there's an absolutely, completely programmatically enforced, finite supply to it. Like, what does that adoption curve look like? I don't know, because we've never seen it. How could we know? So, like, you know, maybe it's just one of those things. Like, all your models are broken. We have no clue. And the best thing we can do is, I mean, Odell hits the nail right in the head. Like, stay humble, stack sats and focus on your craft. Start a bitcoin podcast. You know, absolutely. Whatever you want to do. But, yeah, like, that's the thing. Like, maybe all of our priors just don't really work that well. Like, bitcoin is repricing the entire world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We've never had anything like this before. How. Like, how. How much hubris do we have to have to assume that we can figure out exactly what this is going to look like? We can't. We can guess, but, like, we're probably going to be wrong, and we may, like, directionally we're right. Right. Like, we know bitcoin goes up into the right Bitcoin is repricing everything. Everything else is trending to zero in terms of bitcoin. The marginal cost of production is turning to zero in terms of bitcoin for everything.

But what does the timescale of that look like? I don't know, like how long does it take for the masses to wake up to this?

[B]

Or do they, that's the other.

[A]

Or do they ever. Or does it just become the water they swim in, the air that they breathe? Eventually they don't even know it. It's just the rails they use. But they don't actually, you know, they never actually wake up to it. It just becomes, you know, part of their life.

[B]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think like it's, it's, it is the base layer. So it's not an unreasonable adoption strategy to have it at some point in time, some kind of monetary breakdown where just like Treasuries move between commercial banks, that bitcoin's moving between commercial banks. And that sort of sense, like, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, their transactions are being settled in bitcoin between banks around the world, but they're not, they're not directly sending UTXOs. Like I actually think reasonably, I think it's reasonable. In 10 years time, the fact that we actually did on chain transactions will probably be a rarity. Like we'll be one of those weirdos that had like a phone, they're putting on a modem to connect to the Internet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't think that most people are going to interact on base layer. And so that really opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of what adoption is going to look like. Even right now with what Square and Cash app are doing right, I would not be surprised for a long time people are still thinking in fiat terms. They're still using the dollar as the unit of account, but it's going over lightning rails in between because there's better infrastructure. Right. It's just got that final settlement aspect. We might see adoption from the producer side, from the provider side, but it really is being used as the value communication network for larger sums of value. Right. Most people might not ever hold on to direct Bitcoin. They really might not. And it's not the situation that I want people to be in. Right. And I'm very excited about like Ark and Spark and Lightning and everything that we got going off these layer twos to scale it out there. But at least transitionally, I do think it'll be a long time before that because the Psychological importance of a unit of account is really, really hard to get past. Right. To actually start pricing in something else. And we're already starting to see it. But you see it in the large scale buys, like, particularly I hear people talk about it comparing to real estate. Right. And that makes sense. Like for most people, their home is like the biggest asset that they'll ever own. So comparing the largest asset you own to your bitcoin stack, that makes sense. My house is going down in bitcoin terms, but I think it'll be quite a while before people really start thinking about like the classic cup of coffee in that sort of sense. So you're right. We have no idea what adoption is going to look like. And, and I think it's, it's too simplistic and kind of naive to think it's going to look like it is right now. But for everybody, if that kind of makes sense, like it's, it's. Most people will probably start using it and not even like, like the ETF or it's like in some sort of like mutual fund or something or some sort of investment vehicle. They'll probably start using it, not necessarily knowing that they're using it. Like how, how many people are using the Internet but have no idea what they're using it? But they use it all the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But as far as they know, they're just going to Facebook.

[A]

Yeah. What's, what's TCP ip? I have no idea. You know, like, they don't know. Like, and, and that's like, that's okay. They don't necessarily need to know. Again, it's like, it's the air they breathe, it's the water that they swim in. I think that's fair. And that's why like some of these, again, we were, you know, you mentioned it as well, but these incredibly bullish developments with, with Square and with Cash app, like, and I know a lot of people seen a lot of like negativity about this too, being like, why are you, you know, why are you, you know, why are people sucking Cash app's dick about this? Like, this is, you know, like, this isn't as good as it should be or something. It's like, guys like, like zoom out a little bit. Like, yeah, 4 million plus merchants just got the potential to turn on bitcoin acceptance really easily. Without them downloading anything else, without them doing anything else, they got the ability to be able to convert proceeds into bitcoin.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, it's just like.

This is insanely, insanely Bullish. And at the same time, it's like price action doesn't seem to match up with that. Like, you know, if you think, I feel like back in like 2020, 2021, if something like this would have happened if Square was like, we just turned on Bitcoin for 4 million merchants and cash app's like, yeah, we're just using bitcoin as like to settle bitcoin or USD. Like, would have just been like, people would have been losing their minds. And as it is now, people are like, okay, I gotta remember Tesla, right?

[B]

Like, Elon could move the price price up or down.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, well, exactly. And it's like, that's. That's the crazy thing. It's like now the, the Czech National Bank's like, yeah, we bought some bitcoin because we're trying this out. And people are like, yeah, okay, big deal. It's like, that's kind of like. But that's like a good sign too, right? It's like these insanely bullish narratives don't actually, like, don't actually materially impact the price at all. And like, but neither do you potentially bearish narrative. Like, there are no bearish narratives. Realistically. Like, that's just like, like there's nothing you could tell me that would make me bearish on bitcoin long term. Like, they're like, nothing. Like, like literally, you know, nothing. Unless like again, you were like, we just like, quantum's already been cracked all your coins. But it's like, no, it's just like not happening. Like, everyone, everyone wants to quantum fud. And it's like you have like, okay, like eventually, but like we're going to. You know, that's the, that's the beauty is like, we have time to prepare for that, but I can send you a new wallet.

[B]

I'll be fine.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But like right now to me is like one of the. It feels like the most bullish time ever, but the price doesn't match up with that. We're not at new all time highs. We're not ripping higher. And to me, that mismatch between the insanely bullish feeling I have based on all of the incredible stuff that's happening and the contrastingly kind of like quote, bearish price action, like, we're still hovering like right around. Like we're a rounding error away from 100k. Right? So it's not like bitcoin's not dead. Like, zoom out, guys, chill. But there is a contrast. There's a mismatch there. There's a sentiment mismatch. And so to me, that just screams like, opportunity. Like, this is when you need to be stacking as hard as you possibly can. Because for some reason people just aren't seeing what is obvious to some of us. And if it is obvious to you right now and you're looking at this like, how the hell could you be bearish right now? How the hell could you not be stacking as much as you can right now? Then, like, you're in the minority. Congratulations, you're awake right now. You are. And you're like literally awake listening to this stream. So even better. But you have an opportunity. Like, there, there is an information asymmetry right now that you can take advantage of because bitcoin will continue to go higher. Like it just. It will. Because. And it's not even bitcoin going higher. Bitcoin's just staying the same. Fiat's just being debased everywhere, always, all the time, forever, until they go to zero. You know that's going to happen. And if you know that that's going to happen and you're aware of bitcoin, you are like doing yourself a disservice if you are not stacking right now. Like, I'm just happy whenever I, like, see the dc, you know, DCA went off. I'm like, huzzah. Like, there we go. Okay, more SATs for me. Like, what, What a great day. You know, Like, I don't know, it's wild. It just, it seems like an opportunity right now. That's what it feels like to me. And again, maybe we go lower. I'd like, not financial advice. Like, I don't give financial advice. I give monetary advice. Right? This is monetary advice. Like, bitcoin is the best money that humanity has ever invented, discovered, Whatever you want to say. There's 21 million forever. There's infinite Fiat forever. Do the fucking math. This isn't that complicated. You just have to stack sats. You just have to keep stacking sats and it's all going to be okay. And if you don't do that, you're going to. Everything's going to get more expensive for you forever. And if you do stack sats, everything's going to get cheaper for you forever. That's it. That's the whole thing. Case closed. Like, I don't know. I don't. I think there's no reason to overcomplicate it. That's just like, this is just reality.

[B]

It's the. There's a few wonderful things to Pull in there. One the information asymmetry. I completely agree. So like first and foremost I would say like if you walk into a room with a thousand people and ask them if they've heard of bitcoin, probably everybody has heard of bitcoin. If you ask them to explain the difficulty adjustment and it's not a bitcoin event, probably nobody can, right? They are aware of it, the brand name is out there, but they still have no idea what it necessarily is. And it's kind of like unfortunate catch 22 where people are so like I heard you ranting about a bit earlier too. Like we're so far removed from where we should be. We have one, you know, one person out there working, one person taking care of the home. You have some free time on the weekends. You can study, you can read, you can better yourselves. People are so trapped in the fiat minds, they don't have time to learn or think about anything else. They're so short sighted that even the idea of trying to like hold onto something for four years seems unattainable or like away from them right now. Right. And as bitcoin fixes things slowly under the surface, they might have that opportunity. They might have their chance. There's a couple things there. One is this idea like I like the, have you heard the idea of a preference cascade?

[A]

Sounds vaguely familiar. But please re educate me, put me in a re education camp.

[B]

I will absolutely be in a re education camp. It's a like an explanation of what happened with like the Soviet Union and the fall of the Soviet Union in.

[A]

The sense that education camp was, was a, it was a spot on comment.

[B]

It was a very good, very good comment. It's the idea that basically like you'll have an entire population of people that will voice one thing publicly but think something else privately. Right. And they're not aware that they can, they can socially come out and say the truth. And as soon as it's like socially acceptable, it looks like everybody changed their mind overnight. But really what happened was they all started speaking what they really thought. And so as the fiat system continues to get worse, as things continue to accelerate as or decelerate, however you want to put it, it's, you're going to start to see that kind of stack up in the background as well too. Like we're still very tribal both in Canada and the U.S. right? It's like Democrat, Republican, like conservative, liberal and we're very stuck in their tribes. But as neither one can fix things going forward as things only get worse, you'll have that discontent kind of sitting in the background that there's something wrong with the system. And it's. I think it's like those kind of watershed moments, like going even go back to Covid, where you have a large. People go, like, hold up. Regardless of what's going on here, someone's lying to me. This isn't right. And you'll get that kind of the public shift where people are comfortable talking about like, yeah, why am I being debased like this? Why can't I afford anything? And they'll actually have that hunger to learn, to understand. And you'll see that it's. It's a lot of people are going to need to be socially acceptable. And I think that's why we get the. You got the euphoria in previous cycles too, right? Because all the hype. There's all the hype going on. There's no hype. It's not socially acceptable or cool or interesting to be into Bitcoin right now. It's just. It's just not right. Exactly to your point, like, I'm seeing co host Gary on Twitter. They're arguing people that are dunking on him. He's like, yeah, no worries, buddy. If you want to learn about it, I'm happy to teach you about it and I'll see you in a couple years. Right? We're currently not the cool kids at the table. It's AI, and therefore it's, you know, even. Even where your money goes to some extent is a popularity content contest. We just don't have that social. We don't have the low enough social barrier for unfortunately, the vast majority of people to be interested are into it.

[A]

That's. It's a really good point around AI specifically. And the irony there, of course, is that AI is an incredibly deflationary force.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. It's the most deflationary.

Technological industrial revolution. The industrial revolution was insanely deflationary, Right? And every technological revolution is super deflationary. That's a good thing, right? Like, that's a good thing for people. Deflation is not the boogeyman. Deflation is like, Is a good thing when it's technologically driven in the natural state of a free market is deflation. As you've read Jeff Booth's Price to Tomorrow, which you should. You would know that. But AI is just that, on steroids, right? Like, it's. And the irony being for the people that are so focused on AI, but like, ignoring Bitcoin is. It's like, what kind of money do you think is going to actually work in a deflationary world? You need a deflationary money, right? You need a money with fixed supply. Fiat inflation does not like, it does not work with technologically driven hyper deflation. Right? Those two don't match up because that just means for fiat to continue working, you have to keep printing. This is like Lyn Alden, you know, nothing stops this train, right? Fiscal diamonds. Like you have to keep printing. And if you like, if technology is driving costs down even faster than you can print, that's not a good situation. Like then the whole house of cards collapses. Like you need Bitcoin in this situation. But like so many of them don't see it. And so again, like even the people who are at the forefront who see what's happening with AI, so many of them still are so hyper focused on that that they don't see like what is necessarily going to need to be the new bedrock, the new, the new base layer of this system which, which is bitcoin. Like there's, there's just nothing else. And like it's certainly like, certainly not going to be gold, right? Gold has done super well for like 5,000 years. Gold's been on a tear recently. But it's like gold, there's a reason that gold, you know, we got off the gold center and all these things. It's like gold doesn't work in the information age. It just doesn't. It like it can't. It's been great for 5,000 years, but it's like it's the money of the past, not the money of the future. Right? It's sound money. Yes. Feel free to buy gold if you want to. Gold is still, you know, a heck of a lot better than Fiat or anything else out there. But in a hyper deflationary, technologically driven, deflationary world, you need bitcoin. And also it's very obvious what are AI agents going to want if we achieve artificial general intelligence. Like what's an AGI going to want in exchange for its compute? Well, it's going to want Bitcoin because everything else is just credit, right? But again, information asymmetry. There's like most people just still don't get that.

[B]

They don't realize that productivity is going to destroy the system. Like that's the, that's the whole issue there in the sense that because most people don't realize that the money is a, is a debt based money, meaning that if you pay back the loan or you default on the loan because I put you out of business. That is destruction, right? That is destroying currency units that are currently in the system. And the other thing, I think people really sleep on that too. And again, like you with the industrial revolution, like.

I would make the, this a fun topic. I would make the argument that slavery held back the industrial revolution because why would you invest in labor saving devices when you have free labor, right? And that same sort of vein, like it was still a very net positive that people like lost jobs to industrial revolution and new technologies. Moving forward we gain more productivity. And again, your wealth is never $. Your wealth is in Bitcoin. I think people forget this as well too. You don't actually want Bitcoin. It's just the best money to give you the things that you do want in the future, right? It's the medium to get there. It's not the thing that you actually consume. But even looking at the AI thing, there are so many jobs in particular in the managerial class that are on the table, that are on the chopping block. And the reason being is that the way that I kind of it framed up is if you're an employee for a business, you're kind of working in the present. If you're an entrepreneur, right? Or like kind of that C suite level, you tend to be looking at the future, right? And that's kind of creativity. It's things that, it's things that may not exist yet. So it's not something that AI can use because it doesn't have rear facing data. But if you're in a managerial role that tends to be looking at the past, looking at your past data, whether it's logistics or distributions or sales or whatever it is, and then making plans or stocking up for the future. You can take like an extreme example of someone who's like a distribution manager, right? Well, historically you have to look at the data and go like, okay, I think these stores are going to need these items come the Christmas season. Like those jobs are all gone. If you have rear facing data focused jobs, that's the kind of stuff that the large language models of the AI can really power through. But as hard as that transition is going to be, and as deflationary as that transition is going to be, think of how much intelligence, like human capital is currently fucking around on Wall street trying to make trades just a fraction of a second faster, offering no value to anybody else. Because that's the money spigot. That's where their energy is being put. If you take those people and you unleash that entrepreneurial force on the world, like, my God, I was promised flying cars and Fiat fucking taking them away from me. And I just know that if we can get this thing on the right path, they're coming.

[A]

It's such a good point. Like so many of the brightest minds have, instead of going into engineering or medicine or like things that actually matter, they've just gone into.

Finance. And like, not that there aren't valuable things that you can do in the financial world, obviously there are, but the over financialization of everything based on the broken incentives of Fiat is what is the problem. Like just so much, so much time and energy and so much brain power that could be focused on really important problems is just focused on financial engineering that's not actually creating any real value. And there is financial engineering that can create value, right? Not saying that again, this is not like a binary thing. It's just that I think any reasonable person can admit that we have way, way, way. Let's say there's the incentives being broken has forced or caused so many more people to go and pursue careers in basically just financial vaporware, right? Instead of actually doing something that is for the betterment of humanity and not that, you know, like, not that you need to have like some high and mighty goal. Like you're like, not everyone's an Elon Musk who's trying to make us an interplanetary species, right? But like generally doing something that is in if the incentives are aligned, if the money is sound, doing something that is in your best interest, that provides value and that other people want to pay you for is going to be in everyone's best interests. But like when the incentives are broken because the money is broken, doing something that's your best, in your best interest is not necessarily in everyone's interest, like because you're just playing these weird financial financialized games, right? And like, I don't know, it's a shame, but it's one of the things that gives me so much hope about, about Bitcoin is like also some of these financial engineering jobs are just going to be obsoleted by AI, right? You already have Saylor being like, yeah, I just invented new financial products by Vibe. By Vibe coding basically with AI, right? Like, you know, like doing the work of a whole team of, you know, you know, investment bankers that are, you know, fresh out of, fresh out of college making, you know, half a million dollars a year. Like, nope, just Saylor and his AI.

[B]

Like, yep, it's absolutely beautiful. Like to that point, it's the. When the incentives are aligned on a wonderful sound money standard. The way that you become like stinking fucking rich is by offering value to the most amount of people. The only way in that system that you come out on top is by scaling and offering value to as many people as possible. Even on the flip side, I was thinking too of the like the brain power that's being sucked away into basically non productive aspects we'll say, of finance and just playing fiat contilionaire games. There's also the other side too, where how many potentially, like it's the scene versus the unseen. The classic Austrian stuff, right? How many people in a sound money system would have gone on to create a great invention or great business or great service, but they're so stuck in the daily grind and so trapped by having to make their existing payments. You got it in the other flip side as well too, where the other people that are struggling, that can't save and get ahead and therefore now have that opportunity to start that great idea that they actually had. That actually was a great idea. Right. There's so much that gets lost because everyone's just trying to stay afraid, float or get close to the money printer.

[A]

And it's actually like, it's, it's such a sad thing.

And I think actually like Safedine's new book is the Gold Standard is kind of an exploration. I've not read it yet. I imagine it's probably pretty darn good, but it's, I believe it's like a bit of a novel as well. Like. Right. It's like, it's a. The idea is like what would have happened? Yeah, like what would have happened if we, if, you know, like we didn't leave the gold standard. Right. Like if we, if we figure that out. And it is kind of crazy to think about like what, like what does the world look like on a sound money standard for an extended period of time in the digital age? Like again, we don't know yet because we don't have one. Like some people. The future is here. We're living in the future right now. Those who are listening to this right now are living in the future. If you're saving in bitcoin, you're already on a sound money standard. So you know what it's like for you. But what does that look like at scale? What does that look like for everyone? What does that look like when the, when the whole world is operating in that way? And again that's going to take like a lot of time. Like that's going to take Like a long time. I don't know if we even see that. I think maybe our kids do.

[B]

I say we might touch it. Yeah, it might be like grandkids or something.

[A]

Yeah. And like, you know, we'll be, we'll be like 90 some years. We'll be like, I told you so. We were right, you know. But I don't know, it's, it's, it's wild to think about and it gives me a lot of hope for the future. And so, yes, even when bitcoin is, you know, crashing down to now. 9,96,431 fiat cuck bucks infinitely printable Fiat Cuck bucks per. Per bitcoin. I'm still just so incredibly bullish on the future because it's like we just, we don't, we don't even know how good things could get and they're going to get really messy in the mid, like the in between transition. It's not going to be pretty undeniably. But what comes out on the other side, like we're not building right now for ourselves. Right. We're building for the next generations. And that's I think something that like fiat forces you to be so high time preference that like so much. I mean, and I don't mean it. I know a lot of really good boomers, right? I know a lot of great bitcoin boomers.

[B]

It's a cliche for a reason.

[A]

But the, the boomers, like, it's kind of just like a, they just basically it's just like, oh, fuck the younger generation. You know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, just buy your house for a couple of bushels of raspberries like I did and It'll be worth $5 million. You know, like it was so much.

[B]

Worse than that because it was hypocritical as well too. It was like they took the lessons of the greatest generation and like, you got to save, you got to work hard and these things too. But then they didn't apply them to themselves, but they gave us the, gave the rules to us. Like we're just going to have like pensions that we can pay into, but we're getting paid out of right away and we're going to get all this entitlement spending and everything too. But you guys, you guys are the issue that aren't working hard enough. There's a reason that it stings so much more. Could be one thing if they were just like kind of hippies and like, no, let's just go full socialism. But they preach One thing and then have enacted another as a collective. Couldn't judge people as a collective. I'm well aware. But there's a reason that cliche exists for a reason. And there's still a problem in terms of a voting demographic like in Canada. My God, it's awful. You can actually see that like the younger generations have skewed conservative, which again, voting is not going to save you. Vote harder. We already know this but.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just to get a, get a read of the room. The only reason that we have the twice central banker once I think was in the running for head of the imf running our current country and now into the fucking ground for the benefit of Europe is because it's all the boomers. You can see, it's like 50 plus is all that's voting for him and me in the one, the one day free state of Alberta. Here the election's decided before it gets to us. Our vote does not matter at all.

[A]

Yeah, I, I am all about a free Alberta. I think that the more I've learned about Alberta because of all the based bitcoiners I know from Alberta, I'm like, yeah, Alberta, like yeah, like you. Yeah, that get out of the rest of Canada. Like you know, like they're not doing you any favors. Clearly.

[B]

No, it's not a non zero chance to even saw just today. So we had the. So to give you a quick idea, the last budget that came out was 60 billion, which again is just, you know, pocket change for the US but it was basically 50% higher than what it was supposed to be in. The previous finance minister resigned hours before because she was not going to present it. Now in all fairness, she's a terrible like Davos, like hangs out with George Soros type. So she's not a good person either. But she resigned to refuse to present it. The bill that they just dropped. The budget, they just dropped. And it's for this year by the way. We're in November, but the budget just came out now was 78 billion, going up to 79 billion. But the thing that I saw this evening was that there's a whole bunch of like infrastructure projects because of course there are. We're going to do a bunch of infrastructure projects. They're everywhere except Alberta. There's not a single one in Alberta. There's a bunch in B.C. and Ontario and Quebec. Not a fucking project for Alberta. We are the redheaded stepchild.

[A]

Even though like it's Alberta's resources that are basically funding everything which is just.

[B]

Of US dollars coming In.

[A]

Yep, yep. I mean, again, just like insane. And that's the thing, like the solution to our woes. Whether, wherever you are in the world, whether it be the United States or Canada or the soon to be free state of Alberta or in Europe or in Asia or South America or Africa, it doesn't matter where it is. Like, government is not going to solve your problems. If government could solve your problems, we wouldn't have problems. Right. Our problem is not that. Oh well, if we just give government a little more power, if we just let them govern us a bit harder, Daddy, then it'll all be fixed. No, because if that worked, if giving the government more power would fix our problems, then there wouldn't be problems. This is not a complicated thing. But that's not the case because giving the government more power makes things worse. It distorts the free market more and more and more. Everything the government does is extractive. They're not a productive institution. The necessity necessarily not everything they do is based on extraction through the threat of violence. And so no, government is not going to save you. It can't, it cannot save you. It is up to us to take the freedoms that we want to have. Because again, the government can't give us any freedoms. They can enshrine rights, they can legally protect freedoms, but they can't give them to us. We already have the freedoms, we just have. We have to take them. And so, you know, how do we do that? Well, we do it by building parallel systems, right? Like bitcoiners are already doing that. We're already doing that just by the simple act of taking your infinitely printable fiat cuckbucks that you get in exchange for your time and energy and converting those to bitcoin. You are already engaging in peaceful revolution against the state. Like you are subverting the state in the most peaceful, cooperative, voluntary way possible. And that's through Bitcoin. And, and also, thank God that we have all these other tools like Nostr, like Ecash, like all of bitch at all of these incredible like technologies that are out there, like Keat and hole punch, all these different peer to peer technologies that make me so bullish because we have the tools available to us, like to, to reclaim our freedoms in the digital age. We have the tools available to us to step outside of the fiat Panopticon. Right, but you have to use them.

It doesn't work unless you use them.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

You know, it's funny, one thing asleep there.

[B]

I completely agree. And I think they will be until it hurts enough Unfortunately, I think that's the route that most people are going to go down. And on that note, too, like, we just had Matt Hill on the show, and the holy shit, the stuff that he's building, you got to get him on, like, unbelievable. Like, he's going straight for that sovereign computing and subverting the state. It's unbelievably exciting. But I want to go down that rabbit hole for a second. The thing I do want touch on, because we're talking about, like, why am I so bullish? And why are you so bullish? Like, I had the realization we're at an unfair advantage. We are really at an unfair advantage here, being that we are bitcoin podcasters and everyone should become a bitcoin podcaster. Because the reason that I'm so unbelievably bullish is the people that I get to talk to in this space. Like, if I'm ever having a moment of feeling down, like, hanging out with you right now in the stream, I feel great. I'm energized. I'm good to go. Hanging out with the sessions team. We just went to the YYC meetup and had a bit devs and had one of the guys from Lightning Labs in there. Like, you cannot be bullish if you're hanging around other bitcoiners. If you're feeling down right now, if the price is bothering you, that just means you're not spending enough time with bitcoiners. Find the local meetup because these are the most inspiring, energetic. They're the people that you want on your team, and my God, do they lift you up. I was hanging out. I was having a nice guy's nine evening with some fantastic bitcoiners, one of which another beautiful Alberta bitcoiner was. Was made X too, right?

[A]

Awesome, dude.

[B]

Awesome, dude. You can't not feel inspired by these people. I'm hanging around with people that they give me, like, okay, I got to do better. I can contribute more. I can go harder here. And in that sort of way, when you see everything that's being built, when you're being. When you're around the people that are building it, when you're around people that see it, this will not phase you at all. 96434 will not phase you whatsoever.

[A]

Amen to that. The more time I spend with bitcoiners in the meat space, especially, like, when. When you're like, that's. That's one thing, like, people you know will say, like, oh, there's too many bitcoin podcasts. Too many bitcoin conferences. It's like, I don't know, I think we need more of both. Like, I think it's. I think it's good. I think people need as many opportunities as possible to be around and engage with other bitcoiners, whether that be passively through listening to podcasts or actively through starting your own bitcoin podcast, which you should. Or actively through being around bitcoiners at your local meetup or at a conference in the meet space, like, there is nothing better than that. And when you're around people that are, like, you said, you want to be better, right? You want to do more, you want to contribute more in whatever way we can, because we all have different skill sets, right? Like. Like you and I aren't writing code, right? You know, but those who can't code podcast. Like, this is, you know, as the. As the old saying goes, but it does. It's impossible to be bearish when you're exposed to all the incredible things that are going on when you're exposed to all the incredible people. And that's one of the things you like. That I realized as I started going to bitcoin conferences was just like, holy shit, this is just the most inspiring group of individuals I've ever come across. And it's so concentrated, too. It's not just like, oh, here's the random inspiring individual amongst the crowd of bitcoiners. It's like, no, no, no. Like, just about every bitcoiner you meet will. You will find some way to get inspired by them. And that's just. That's a really cool thing. And it's. It's. We're going to look back, you know, I don't know if you watch the Office, but there's, you know, there's that quote in there. Like, I wish there was a way to know you were in the good old days when you're in them. And it's like, we're in them right now. Like, we're going to look back at this and be like, holy shit. Like, that was kind of wild, huh? Like, we're around these people that are. That are building the future that we're all going to live in, or podcasting the future about the future that we're all going to live in. I don't know. It's cool. And again, if you're feeling bearish right now, start a bitcoin podcast, start talking to more bitcoiners. Go to your local meetup, go to.

[B]

Bitcoin podcast, bitcoin podcast.net gear. That's bitcoinpodcast.net gear to get the full list of everything that you need to start a bitcoin podcast today. And you will feel so much better because if nothing else, if nothing else, it doesn't matter if it amounts to anything financially. What it will do is give you a chance to meet other bitcoiners, talk to the most interesting people in the world, have a fun, non destructive hobby. You're going to absolutely love it and you should do it. And on that note, to want to even point out that like, I was just at the Canadian bitcoin conference a couple weeks ago and funny enough that like we're here now because at that conference I was saying that like, it felt like a bear market conference. Like, it was really like, it was. I was hanging out with the most amazing people. There was no bitcoin curious. Everyone there was already the converted. So it was a fun time, but it felt very odd for where we were too. But it gave me the chance. Like, I got to meet Brandon Gentile and we had like the most amazing time hanging out. He gave a talk on homeschooling. I was sitting there taking notes. I'm like, oh, this dude's nailed it. Four kids and they're just the most polite children. I'm like just writing everything down as fast as I can. And it's those things that sustain you, that grow you as a person, that you learn something else new.

[A]

Fuck.

[B]

I was hanging out. I was out late too often. I got up every morning. I was there every morning for sure. But like, I was hanging like those. I was hanging out late at a cigar lounge to close with Hoddle D, Steve Barber and Mr. Dave Bradley conspiring on how we can have Alberta independence. Right? And those are the wonderful times. That's what resets the clock and makes you feel amazing.

[A]

That sounds like a good time. I need to make it to a Canadian bitcoin conference.

It's, it's, it's on my list. The timing has not worked out yet, but I need to make it there. I've got to say, before bitcoin, I knew like the Canadians I knew I could count like on one hand. You know, even I'm from like, like northern Wisconsin, so I'm like pretty close to Canada. But I still just like, I knew very, very few Canadians like through bitcoin. I was like, holy shit. Like, I like, Canadians are way more or bitcoin Canadian. You know, Canadian bitcoiners are way like super based like, this is awesome. Now I know more. I know more. You know, Canadians I can shake a stick at now. And they're all super based, which is. Which is amazing. But no, it is like the other thing about the vibes, like, when. When it's a quote, bear market, or just when. When sentiment generally is bad and you're at a conference.

A bitcoin conference, you'd have no idea that sentiment outside of that was bad. Because the sentiment's never bad at the. Because the, the talk isn't about price. Like, and that's when you, like, that's actually when it's good. When it's not just all of the, like, macro, moon boy, opium stuff, right? When it's like, actually like, hey, here's what we're building. Here's the fucking cool shit we're doing. Like, the price doesn't even come up because we all know where it's going and it's just. It's irrelevant, right? It's just about, hey, what are we doing? What are we building? How can we work together? Like, that's the. That, like, gets you fired up to dude to come back and podcast another.

[B]

Day, I got to tell you. So at the conference, there was one speech and, like, you know, I often find myself, you look back on history and, like, wonder how these atrocities in, like, 1945 could ever occur. Like, how could everyone follow mean old Mr. Mustache? So Francis Pulliot from Bull Bitcoin got on stage and gave a presentation that was what he's doing to take over the world. Like, he literally gave a presentation on Bull Bitcoin's world domination plan. And like, absolutely. I was in the crowd just, yes, I get, I totally get how people can be sucked into one of those people because he is the Canadian based motherfucker and unbelievably inspirational. You just want to follow him into battle.

[A]

He's an awesome dude.

And that's the thing. It's like, man, it's hard to be bearish. Like, I can't be bearish knowing the bitcoiners that I know. Okay, yeah, like, bitcoin's immutable properties aside, like, what makes me really bullish is like, our fellow bitcoiners. That's what makes me super fucking bullish. And so again, if you're feeling bearish, try to spend some more time with other bitcoiners, because it can be isolating when you go down the bitcoin rabbit hole. I'm lucky enough that my wife Carla was going down the rabbit hole with me. Right. So we had somebody because it was during COVID too. So it was already isolating. But at least we had each other, so that was amazing. And we had the Internet, thank goodness. But it can be really isolating if you don't have somebody in the real world be able to talk to. And like, probably for a lot of us, like a lot of our, let's say, you know, quote normie friends, maybe like we've orange pilled some of them and like, they're, they're going down the rabbit hole. But like, that's a slow process. It's. It's tough. It's. It's not immediately easy. It's going to take them a while to get, to get them to listen to your bitcoin podcast. They will eventually and it'll be very rewarding. But you just got to, you got to go and meet somebody. Some actual, Some bitcoiners.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

That's the best thing you can do for your own sanity. Like, you need to.

[B]

I completely, I was, I was so isolated and alone for years too. So keep in mind, before I landed this wonderful job again become a bitcoin podcaster, I was working in a Canadian university. So you can't really get more kind of left liberal than that, right? So I was the ancap libertarian, eventual bitcoiner in a Canadian university, and then going through the COVID times as well, too. I had fucking no one. And I was miserable there. And it was because of that isolation. It's almost the, like, you start to wonder if you're going crazy at times too. I was chain smoking like a motherfucker because again, it was like, what am I gonna do? I'll get my work done for lunch. I'm just gonna go smoke, listen to some spaces and then go back in because I hated it. And I had no one to bounce ideas off of. I had no one to talk to, no one to share with. And also there's that again, Canadian university. I was well aware that if my opinions got out there, that's why I had an add on handle for so long, was that I would. There's a good chance I would get canned for my actual opinions, right? And I rose through the ranks way higher than I ever should have. And so the first time I went to any sort of bitcoin event, I remember leaving there and thinking like, how energized I was, like, how like, pumped up I was. But I later realized it wasn't that. It wasn't that I got in there and these people gave me A bunch of energy is. I got in there and I. Because of value alignment and understanding, I got to shed all the chains. I was just unrestricted for the first time, or I wasn't have to worry about what I was saying or what I was thinking or how it would be received. I could just. Just freely be me. And once I got a taste of that, there was no going back. I was looking for the exits and I was getting out of that job.

[A]

Man, that must have been. That's like a. Quite a hotbed of like, neocommunism. Like, I can. I can only imagine that must have been like, stepping out of that and then into the bitcoin space. Like, that's. That's about as like a. It's quite a. Quite a polar opposite there in terms of. In terms of vibe, man. And how does it feel? Oh, my God, it's.

[B]

You have no idea. I've. It's a little bit hard on my wife right now. I'll explain why in the sense that I've never worked as hard as I am between the two companies, but I've never been this happy. Like, I was absolutely. And on paper, it was a great job. On paper, it was like, best job, benefits and vacation and pay and all these things too. But, like, I remember talking. I had a good relationship with one of our providers and I was explaining it to him. I was like, the thing that I need is not money. The thing that I need is just respect. And to be able to talk like that was my issue. Right. I was just, oh, this is, you know, token libertarian guy. Ignore his points and never give him any. Don't give him more responsibility. It was the best thing I did for myself. And actually, I heard Ray Dalio talking about this on a podcast. And if you're young, this is particularly good advice. Don't. Don't follow the money. Follow the people you want to work with. And particularly mentor under. That'll be the biggest ROI in terms of your career path. And I 100% agree. I have just, like, everything for me has accelerated. Working with Ben over BT sessions and him and Mike over bitcoin mentor. And I've. I've never been this happy because I have meaning. I enjoy what I'm doing. Right. I don't feel like I'm just wasting time. Fucking hell. Like, I'm sure you're mildly aware, but they literally waste money at the universities. They literally purposely waste money because. Yes, they do. They do. Walker. If you get a grant. If you get a grant and you don't spend it all, you will get less money next year. So the only way. And also if you don't spend it, it's not like you get to keep it. And like, it's not like you can save grant money, which is fucking retarded. It means that you have to burn it by the end of the grant in order to get the same or more the next year. And if you don't spend it, you will get less. You don't get to save it or keep it for it. So they would purposely dump money on the dumbest shit. And it was again, I worked, I worked specifically in research and it's such a. You meet people with a very narrow scope of focus and they're very brilliant in their one particular field. But, but if you've. Everybody should have like a service job or work in the trades. I'm a big believer in that. If you can, when you're young, start, start getting jobs. There's an important lesson in kind of being bottom of the totem pole and having those kind of those skill sets and kind of working your way up to. Because I would work with or work for people that had only ever been in academia, never been in like a for profit company and trying to communicate or plan with them or even just like the leadership skills is unbelievably frustrating. It's like you guys would die in the free market in a second. You're only here because you're subsidized by the government because you suck their dick.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I want to read BTC Dharma in the chat. I'm a tenured psychological science professor who feels similarly outcast. Stop giving a fuck about it a year ago and preach freely to the libs. BDC Dharma, good for you.

[B]

Good for you, man.

[A]

You're not alone. You know, that's the thing. That's the beautiful thing about I think bitcoiners generally is like you realize there are other people that are like just as crazy and like a lot of them are even crazier than you are. Like you thought you were hardcore. It's like you go around bitcoin, it's like I'm, I need to step up my game. I'm kind of a, kind of a little right now. Like, you know, but, but like it is an incredibly, it's, it's a freeing thing I think. And that's, that's the beauty of bitcoin generally is like that it gives you the option to like, like it's you money, like you and you don't even need to have. You don't need to have billions of dollars worth of bitcoin for bitcoin to be fuck you money. Like bitcoin just is you money, right? And because it's, it's the first form of money they can't fuck with. They can't fuck with it. No, they can't. They can't take it from you and they can't debase it. And that's everything. That's everything. Because even a little bit of it gives you more freedom than a giant stack of Fiat. And, and that's a beautiful thing, right? That's that like the optionality that bitcoin gives people and the bitcoin gives people over time too, because your optionality only increases. And that's kind of the incredible thing is like, I'm very excited to see something I've talked with, with American Huddle and Eric Casen about extensively. I'll have them on for just like regular rips together because I just love getting together and bouncing ideas around.

[B]

HODL is my spirit animal.

[A]

I love them, dude. They're just awesome dudes. Just like respect the hell out of those guys. And one thing we've talked about a lot is just this idea. And HODL breaks it down more eloquently than I ever could. But it's like, yeah, bitcoin is going to go to millions of dollars a coin. And then what? What are you going to do? Because we are going to be the capital allocators of the New World Order. And not like the New World Order, you know, but like, you know, the real, the Orange World Order, actually.

[B]

Impressive elites.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Elite. In a good way, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

In the way that it actually literally means. Not in the way that it's come to mean. What are you going to do? And I'm excited to see what bitcoiners do because we're going to have an incredible amount of economic energy. We have low time preferences. We generally, the bitcoiners who are around now generally want to either have or want to build families, to build legacy within those families, to build strong families. A lot of homeschooling.

[B]

Watching them sleep right now.

[A]

Amazing. Amazing. I love it. And we should wrap soon because both of us should probably.

Get to bed at some point soon. But maybe I'll leave it with this. It's just that if you're okay, we're sitting right now. We've been hovering right now at around 96,000. I don't know how much it is in Canadian moose knuckles, but find Out.

[B]

It's probably pretty bad.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But 134. 8.

[A]

Wow. It sounds. It sounds so nice in Canadian 100k, guys.

[B]

What the fuck you talking about?

[A]

There you go. Yeah, man. How can you be bearish? You know, because that's the thing. Like, man, you want to be really bullish, look at the price in Turkish lira. Like, it's nuts. And I have a lot of Turkish friends who are very happy they own bitcoin. Understandably so. But, like.

There'S just no reason to be bearish right now. There's an opportunity right now because when other people are really bearish, personally, that's when I'm the most bullish. It's like that's when there's an information asymmetry. That is when. If you understand bitcoin, you really understand bitcoin. You've really thought about the game theory of this. You've really thought about what is going to happen in the coming decades, right? And you're thinking about this long term. You're thinking about it in terms of not just yourself, but outside of yourself. Your family, right? The future generations. If you are thinking in that timescale, you need to look at this as a generational opportunity. And that's not to say that it may not. It's like bitcoin is volatile, but it's volatile up into the right with some. Some, you know. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna dip. It's taking a little dip right now. Dips are meant for buying, right? There's always gonna be more dollars. There's never going to be more than 21 million bitcoin. There's always going to be more Canadian moose shekels and Turkish lira and pesos, and whether they be Argentinian or Mexican or whatever, there's just 21 million Bitcoin. That's it. And boy, if you understand that right now you are in a very, very small and privileged minority and you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity right now, but it's up to you to take it. Nobody can. You know, you can. Like the orange pill must be taken willingly, right? And if you've already taken it willingly, you're in the small minority. But realize that, like, eventually more people will wake up out of necessity. But right now, most of them are still asleep. But that's your opportunity. Take it.

[B]

I agree. I really like that. There's something that you kind of like hit on there from Hodl's point that I thought it was actually very beautiful. It's this idea that, like, this is your opportunity to stack more bitcoin. And the next thing that you should do is not figure out what you're going to buy when it's a million dollars or multiple millions of dollars, but figure out what you're going to do. That is incredibly profound. It gives you the chance to actually dictate the terms of your life, because if you're stacking sats right now, you will get to have the life that you want. So what do you want? What do you want to do? Where are you going to contribute what's meaningful and important to you?

[A]

Amen to that. Nathan, I'm glad you jumped on here, man. I was not expecting. I was just. If I was just ranting solo this whole time, it would have been way more boring, you know, at least for me. I don't. I don't know if it would have been better or worse for the. For the crowd out there, but I'm glad we got a chance to do this, man. Folks should check out. Should check out your show as well. I mean, most folks are probably following, you know, BDC sessions already, but you've got a fantastic, fantastic show on there. Yeah, I don't know. And if you're listening to this right now, if you're one of these people who is up late at night right now at, you know, one in the morning or whatever time it is for you listening to this, maybe start your own bitcoin podcast. Like, I know. We'll. We'll. We'll both come on your show. You know, I'm sure, like, we'll be happy to. And, like, we need more bitcoin podcasts. Until we have more bitcoin podcasts than shitty Fiat finance podcasts, we're still lacking in bitcoin podcasts, so consider this your signature to go start your own. And. And, yeah, I don't know, man. Glad you jumped on here. This was a. This was a good time.

[B]

Me too. This is way better than.

[A]

Fortunately, I'm even more bullish now. I'm even more bullish than I was at the start of this. Fuck yeah, man.

[B]

Damn straight, Walker. Damn straight.

[A]

Sir, shall we go be with our. Be with our sleeping families?

[B]

We probably should. But before we do, just a reminder, Everybody go to bitcoinpodcast.net gear to get that full list of everything you need for the bitcoin podcast.

[A]

Bam. Love it. All right, I'm going to cut this stream, and then we're going to see if we're both uploaded, and then we're going to go to bed. Thank you to everybody who tuned in and listened to this. Stay bullish, go meet bitcoiners, start a bitcoin podcast, raise a family, homeschool your kids, subvert the state and have a great night. Cheers.

[B]

Cheers, everyone.