← THE Bitcoin Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Bitcoin would be at $221,696 per coin right now if it were not for all of the plebslop.
- [00:10]
B
Hard men create good times. Good times create plebslop. Plebslop creates hard times. It's a cycle. It's inevitable. This is every bitcoin cycle.
- [00:24]
C
I started feeling gross listening to Nickelback after switching to Creed.
- [00:30]
B
The boomers aren't all ent. Entirely retarded.
- [00:36]
A
Every generation thinks that they. That they've had the hardest slop to deal with, but just, like, objectively, the slop. The slop used to be just simpler, right? It was. It was just purely simpler slop. It was easier to digest slop. It was like, you know, oatmeal textured slop. Even a baby could take it down.
- [00:55]
B
Slop to one person isn't slop to another person. But, yeah, it's. I don't know. I like Creed.
- [01:05]
C
Blubsop changed my life.
- [01:09]
B
And I think his British accent is stupid and he should learn how to speak American.
- [01:16]
C
Most of you are retarded, and we don't want to hear what you have to say. I'm one of those people. I'm also retarded.
- [01:26]
A
You ever seen a communist that could meme? Have you ever seen a good communist meme? It's not possible. You can't have a good communist meme because communism is fucking, like, you just. You can't do it. You can't do it. And so it's like, if your memes suck, then. Then, like, look in the mirror, you know?
- [01:46]
C
Walker, have you ever wondered if you're becoming the slop? Or have you ever, like, stayed up late at night worrying about.
- [01:58]
A
Emergency broadcast? The real reason bitcoin crashed. Parentheses. It's not what you think. Close parentheses. There we go. That. That is the slop that we all. That we all need. Ironically, of course, the real reason that bitcoin did crash was because of the pleb slop in the first place. And this is what nobody. I'm just. I'm wondering why nobody's talking about this. You know, it's one of those inconvenient truths. But I think that, like, we're. We're probably all in agreement that bitcoin would be at $221,696 per coin right now if it were not for all of the pleb slop. I don't know. Are you guys with me on this, or am I just being kind of like a little bit anti slop right now?
- [02:48]
B
Yeah, you know, they, they say there's slop cycles where hard men create good times, good times create plebs lob. Plebslop creates hard times. It's a cycle, it's inevitable. This is every bitcoin cycle. I mean it's just people like to, to point at the havings for being the issue, but it's really just the slop gets out of control, get over leveraged on slop system comes crashing down. You just can't build anything meaningful on top of slop. That's the problem. If your foundation is slop, it's going to crumble eventually.
- [03:33]
C
The thing that's killing me is I was born in bitcoin in the slop, and I didn't recognize it returning until it was too late.
- [03:42]
A
You live by the slop, you die by the slop. You know, it's like, I guess when you're creature of the slop, it's like it is the air you breathe, it is the water you swim in. So how, you know, we, we can't really expect ourselves like, we, we don't have very good inbuilt defense mechanisms against the slop. We're just like our, this generation, right? We're just, we're not built to deal with this, this level of slop like and, and we just don't have those same natural defenses. I, I, I can't tell if Gen Z has better or worse natural defenses against pleb slop. What, what do you, what do you guys think? Like, I guess maybe let's start with this. Let's rank the generations from best defenses against plebslop to like complete lack of defenses. And I'm just gonna, I'm gonna put it out there that the boomers have the least natural immunity to plebslop. Is that, are you guys with me on that at least? I don't know who has the most, but I know the boomers have the least immunity to it. I would say.
- [04:37]
B
I don't know.
- [04:38]
C
Disagreement.
- [04:40]
B
Yeah, I think it's a hard one. Well, I think, you know, one of the things that I've learned and I would encourage younger people to go hang out with boomers, at least based ones, because it'll change your perspective a little bit because there's these guys that have been seeing how retarded everything is for a long time and they've been fully aware of it and it's kind of like that white pill moment where you're like, oh wow, the boomers aren't all entirely, you know, the the slop is constantly evolving. So like, boomer slop is different than Gen X slop, which is different than millennial slop, which is different than zoomer slop. Every generation has their own unique slop. But, you know, there could be an argument that, that some of the younger generations haven't dealt with more difficult times, you could say. But you know, to be fair, like, if you, if you've read anything about history, the boomers have dealt with difficult times themselves. There's a lot of tumultuous stuff that they grew up in, in the 60s, 70s and 80s and 2008. And you know, they, they've been getting screwed by the pedophilic ruling class for a long time.
- [06:01]
A
So they also make up that ruling class, though, to be fair, you know, primarily, I'm just, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, not trying to take a shot here, but it is true. Not all of them, obviously. And there are many good boomers. There are many fine people on the boomer side.
- [06:15]
B
Yeah.
- [06:15]
C
Another downside, like down vote for them. I, I totally hear what you're saying. Dick is I, I tend to hear that, at least from the boomer boomers around me, which is pretty much my dad and his friends, that they would like to return to the time when everyone had the same slop and agreed on what slop was good slop and are sad that everyone enjoys different slop today and they can't just slop along together.
- [06:49]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's tough, I guess. Like, I don't know how we return back to like the, the kind of like the great slop era, because it used to be like slop was so much simpler because you had a one to many slop distribution mechanism.
- [07:03]
B
Right.
- [07:03]
A
You had the legacy at that point. It was the mainstream. That's what you had. That was, that was before you start your slop. You knew you could turn in every night for Walter Cronkite and he was going to feed you some grade A pleb slop.
- [07:16]
B
A lot of power.
- [07:17]
A
But now it's like there's just so many different places on his overload.
- [07:22]
C
We could make a break.
- [07:24]
A
It's hard to know. Maybe there is, there is good plebs slop out there too. Maybe there is good plebs slop. But how do you sift through and find the, the plebslop signal, if that's possible, amidst all the plebslop noise? And I think that's really the challenge that, that our generation faces, being this kind of the Bridge between the, the analog pleb slop and the digital pleb slop, which is. It's a tough line to tread, really. No, you're right.
- [07:48]
C
We had to. We were raised on a different slop and had to learn firsthand, be the first people to try and learn this new age of slop. Whereas Gen Z was born into it and has seen it their whole lives and has seen how we adjusted to it and how we dealt with it and learned from our mistakes. So, you know, I would say that we had it the hardest and no one else had it harder than us. And don't feel sorry for us because we figured out bitcoin, but also feel sorry for us because we had it the hardest.
- [08:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's tough, right? And I think maybe every generation thinks that they, that they've had the hardest slop to deal with. But just like objectively, the slop. The slop used to be just simpler, right? It was, it was just purely simpler slop. It was easier to digest slop. It was like, you know, oatmeal textured slop. Even a baby could take it down. Now it's like the slop has gotten more sophisticated. You've got all different levels of this plebs slop as well. Like you've got all sorts. I mean, the proliferation of AI generated plebslop I think is really just kind of like a game changer, right, because it just lowers the barrier to entry for somebody to create just low grade plebslop and that's, that's where things I think, get, get a little bit dicey and we're, and we're seeing that play out right now in real time.
- [09:16]
B
I think it's exciting. The decentralization and democratization of slop is ultimately a good thing. I think lowering the barrier to entry where anybody can engage in the slop, allows individuals to have more of a voice. But I think one of the challenges of what people don't realize is they're operating in these sandboxes where the slop is controlled, which is these social media platforms. So I think they need to get a little bit more creative with breaking out of their little sandboxes to spread their slop wider, if that makes sense.
- [10:05]
A
Ben, your thoughts on that? I mean, do you share that perspective?
- [10:13]
C
Well, I do think it's interesting that a. The newest craze on Noster adoption has come out as a very anti slop and especially anti AI slop stance where they're, if I'm not wrong, I, I think removing Slop from their platform. Yeah, I think the Vine. Yeah, the vine, yeah. So I think that that's, that's an interesting stance on, to take on slop on the quote unquote, like the Freedom Protocol, the Freedom of Speech Protocol. It's interesting to see such a hard stance taken on slop.
- [10:57]
B
I haven't followed that. Can you explain the dynamic? Like who are the players? What are the arguments? What is categorized as slope?
- [11:07]
A
Well, I think in this specific reference here, Ben is referring to Divine. So it's a, basically a reboot of the old vine app, which maybe a lot of zoomers won't even know about. But it was a short form video app that existed before Instagram had video. Like Instagram picked up video after vine became wildly popular. Instagram was just photos before that, if you can believe it, kids. But this was true. This happened. And then vine kind of like kind of died out recently. Jack Dorsey's and Other Stuff initiative, which funds a lot of open source development specifically around Nostr notes and other stuff transmitted by relays. This is the other stuff part, in case you didn't put that together. Rabble who worked on Twitter in the early days with Jack built out what he's calling Divine or Divine D I V I N E. And basically one of the core pieces of it is they're trying to recreate kind of the old vine experience. They also have an archive of a bunch of the most popular vines from back in the day and that they've like, they've basically cached in there. And then they're also going to be automatically detecting, flagging and removing any AI generated content. So the goal is to have content that is wholly created by human beings without the use of artificial intelligence, which is kind of like the polar opposite of like, you know, like ChatGPT. Sora has its own app now, right. There's all these different cases where they're creating social feeds specifically around AI generated slop without any human slop involved. And it's like, great. Are you going to get some human slop on Divine? Sure. But at least you know that that slop that somebody put a little bit of work into that they weren't just prompting the slop, they were living the slop. And I think that, that, I think that that has some meaning to it. That has, that, that means something in, in this, in this day and age.
- [12:57]
C
It'S very pro jobs, which is great. You'd think it was a politician building this app, except maybe it works well, right?
- [13:06]
A
That, that'd be. And there's no taxes that you have to pay for it. So, you know, it's like, it's even better. You're not just getting robbed constantly. But it's, it's interesting. Like, I'm personally, I like, I, I enjoyed using vine back in the day. It really did. And so, like, when I saw this coming out and it was like, oh, we're not going to allow any sort of AI generated content on there at all. Like, it's probably going to get more and more difficult from a moderation perspective, just as the AI generated content gets more and more, you know, let's say slick. But I mean, hopefully there's, there's enough markers that they can pull where they're able to actually keep it that way. I don't know. It's wild times.
- [13:43]
C
Who knows? Yeah. I have no idea, like, how they're actually picturing that. But it does seem like Noster video is the next frontier of what's being built on Noster, which is really cool. I mean, it seems like primals really diving into that and I don't know, it's. I like, the only social media I've ever really loved is Twitter and then Twitter clones on Nostr. But I've been sucked into the slop vortex on Instagram and TikTok enough that my feet go numb when I'm taking a shit that I know how powerful it is.
- [14:18]
A
So it's not good. Dude, that's a surefire way to get yourself some hemorrhoids. Like, you don't want to be doing that, man. Well, yes. Get off that toilet.
- [14:25]
C
No, no, no. Delete apps. I, I did that once. I, I delete it. I downloaded Tick Tock and then my feet went numb and I deleted the app that day because I knew, I knew the danger of hemorrhoids. I, you know, I go see your local doctor. But I don't know, it seems like that's the. There was that, that Tick Tock band on I for a while. They brought a lot of people to Noster and it, if that Vine Divine really takes off, like, the momentum it has. That's, that's super cool to see. And you know, slop or not, like, if they're, if they're anti slop, there's going to be a slop competitor and that's going to, you know, that just brings more people to Noster because everyone loves slop. And then there's the people who love rules.
- [15:05]
A
Yeah, I mean, I know that they. I think this blew up in a way that Rabble really did not anticipate. They maxed out the 10,000. Like Apple test flight has a 10,000 user limit on the Test Flight version and they hit that limit like very, very quickly. Like I think like within a day or two of just putting this out publicly. And App Store, I mean for anyone who's dealt with the Apple App Store, it is just a pain in the ass. Like, and they, it's very opaque process in terms of that review process. And so I know that it's, I think it's still in review. I don't think it's actually gotten pushed live. So yeah, I've got the Test Flight version sitting on my phone, feeling very lucky. Have not put together any divines yet. I don't know if you call them a Divine now or if you just still call them a Vine. I, I, Is there a new check on there? There is. I mean, again, I've only spent like, I like literally just downloaded it like right before the test flight closed apparently. So I've not spent enough time on there yet. I've been too busy, you know, too busy podcasting in the long form. But, but I think it's going to be a nice way to really break up, you know, make the shortest form bitcoin podcasts possible. Like, you know, it's, I think you probably only get, I think it's seven seconds was the original Vine. So like that's, that's, that's, that's a very short podcast, but, but still a podcast. I think it can be with the right content.
- [16:25]
C
Walker, have you ever wondered if you're becoming the slop? Or have you ever like stayed up late at night worrying about that?
- [16:31]
A
I think about this often. My thesis around this is that if I embrace the slop in a satirical and over the top way, for instance, calling this particular stream, what did I call it? Emergency broadcast. The real reason bitcoin crashed. It's not what you think. I think that as long as we're cognizant of the fact that we are, we are still perpetuating the slop, but we do so in a mindful way and we acknowledge that what we're doing is slop. I think that's the key. If you don't acknowledge when you're putting out the slop, that is the worst form of slop. If you, if you know the slop, if you can name the slop, you can, you can really own the slop then. Otherwise the slop owns you. Like, if you think this is some original content, this is some incredibly, you know, spicy and thoughtful take, but it's just sloppy slop. It's like, oh, well then, you know, maybe you, maybe you're just a sloppy person. But if you know what you're doing, if you, if you're, if you're slopping for a reason, I, I'm more okay with it if it's purposeful slop, but I, I don't know, I mean, Dick, as a, an actual journalist here, you know, we've got a, we've got a, a podcaster, a journalist podcaster, and a winemaker podcaster here. So as speaking of wine, I'd like to say that this Plebslop stream is sponsored by Peony Lane Wine. Peony Lane Wine. You may be reading Plebslop while you drink it, but at least it doesn't taste like plebs. I'll work on that. I don't really have a, I don't really have a saying there, but I, I, I do in fact enjoy Peony Lane wine. And if you like slop, that is not slop, I should say regular wine is probably more slop. Like organic wine. I know you don't call it technically organic anymore, right? I saw, I saw your post about that. But like, I don't know, I get less hungover with your wine, so it doesn't seem that sloppy to me. Like you can get sloppy without feeling sloppy there. Maybe that's, there's something there. I'll work on it.
- [18:31]
C
Since this is business owner, I, I, it's not organic because I don't want to get the organic certification. What I stopped calling it was natural due to some like real microbiome yeast nuance that honestly felt like slop to write. It was wine slop.
- [18:48]
A
It was like, I did read it, dude.
- [18:51]
C
It was wine nuance, which makes me feel sloppy as hell. But it's not slop. I, it's really a lot of, like I said, I get sucked in this slop vortex. Nothing worse than when I started listening to Creed that Walker I and Dick you probably can. I, I became the slot for a little bit there and it still hits me every once in a while. And every time I post Creed, it's the top. And that's the slopster's revenge.
- [19:19]
A
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- [23:06]
B
Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I think I need to think about that a little bit more. It's all. It's all very nuanced, you know, and slop to one person isn't slop to another person, but, yeah, it's. I don't know. I like Creed.
- [23:27]
A
I like Creed. There, I said it live on air.
- [23:31]
C
Creed. Look, Creed absolutely became slop. But it was all about context, right? If you're listening to Creed while watching the bitcoin chart, you were slopping. But if you're just listening to Creed, I think you're good. And when you listen to, like, Nickelback for a little bit, and then you switch to Creed and they switch back to Nickelback and you start listening to what they're talking about. I. I don't know. I started feeling gross listening to Nickelback after switching to Creed, and I feel like that's kind of just. At that time, my only vocabulary was coining versus bitcoining. But, you know, it could be slopping versus not slopping. Is there a word, Dick? Is there a word for the opposite of slop?
- [24:12]
B
I haven't come up with it, but I. I would. I would explain it as, like, just having some semblance of. Of depth and meaning and being grounded in. I mean, you kind of. You kind of look at, like, you know, slop isn't all bad. You can like, some slop, but you look at, like, the difference between MADx and Osnoa Gold. Osino Gold does the Plebslop trading cards. It's just. Is pure slop. It's got. Corey is the most valuable bitcoiner. You know, it's just every. Every single, like, podcast buzzword and, you know, personality that is just spewing slop. Like, they. They're all about it, you know, and his art. His art's pretty cool, I would say, but it just doesn't have the same, like, depth as. As, like, a mate ax or you like, you know, Mad X charges a lot of money, and he can. He can get. He can charge a lot of money. He should charge a lot of money because it puts a ton of time into his artwork, and it's very. It's very Good, too. It's not just like, he. He puts a bunch of time into mediocre stuff. Like, it's. It's legitimately compelling art. And so I think, you know, Asano Gold probably put some time into his art, too, but it's just. You can kind of tell the difference between the two. And I think individuals, like, there. There are individuals that will never really master their craft and be the best at what they're doing. It doesn't mean that they suck. They might. They might put out some cool stuff, but you. You look at something that's like a complete masterpiece. You know, there's individuals that are exceptional at whatever their craft is, whether it's music or art or, you know, podcasting, interviewing. Like, you know, we. We all like to pick on Peter McCormick, but he is a good interviewer. And not only is he a good interviewer, he's a good marketer. He's a. He's a good businessman. And all of those things coming together, you know, make him a really good podcaster at the end of the day. And, you know, he. I. I would argue, even though I, like, you know, vehemently disagree with him, and I think his British accent is stupid and he should learn how to speak American. Like, I think he is the greatest of all time. Like, he's the Michael Jordan of bitcoin podcasting, you know, but, like, when you look at Michael Jordan, that guy, you know, is really legit. But he was kind of a complete psychopath. You know what I mean? And I think sometimes you kind of have to be a complete psychopath to, like, really master your craft like Peter has.
- [27:29]
A
Do you think his British accent's real, or do you think he's been faking it this whole time? He's actually an undercover American, you think? Okay, maybe. Maybe a jury in my book. But.
- [27:42]
B
I mean, how would you ever know? Yeah.
- [27:46]
A
What were you gonna say?
- [27:48]
C
Well, I will say for the metaphor. Of all podcasters, he's the only one that came with a Scottie Pippen.
- [27:55]
A
But Danny, in this case, Pippin. I get it. I get this reference.
- [28:00]
C
Scotty, Danny is doing well on his own. Whereas when Michael left. When Michael left at the top of his game, just like Peter McCormick did, Scotty couldn't bring the Bulls to the finals. And I don't know. I would say maybe Danny does not bring in bitcoin to the finals, just given how much. How little we've pumped since. Since he came on. But he's got a chance to go on a great run next year.
- [28:33]
A
Is it. Is it Danny's fault maybe that we're not. Is Danny the real reason that bitcoin's crashing? I haven't explored that avenue. It could be. I'm. I'm not sure if. I'm never sure if Danny is. If he's British or if he's from one of the. The British prison colonies down on the other side of the world. I can never, I can never keep all the British prison colonies straight here. They have nice beaches.
- [28:58]
C
He's a Brit that it was got so bad in Britain that he moved to a penal colony.
- [29:06]
A
And then he decided to go to Australia too. Right. Anyway, Inappropriate. Wildly inappropriate. Okay, Real, real talk though. Vibes are weird. This is why I've started doing these late night live streams also because, you know, wife is away right now, so it's like, what are you gonna do? Well, you're. You're gonna bitcoin podcast slash livestream, I guess. Like it's just, it's. It's what a man is compelled to do. And the vibes are strange. Like I don't know what the fiat cuck buck price is right now. Let's see, it's like 92,000 infinitely printable fiat cuck bucks per bitcoin. It feels to me, it feels to me, and I've said this to a number of people now, it feels to me that this is going to be one of those times that people look back on like the COVID crash being like, man, I should have, should have sold that other kidney. Why do I still have. Why did I still have chairs? Should have backed up the truck as much as I could. And meanwhile, it feels like for a lot of our fellow plebs are getting like slop psyoped into somehow being bearish while the institutions and nation states are gobbling up sats that could be going into those plebs cold storage. And I just wonder if, if plebs slop, if the quality of plebs slop has been so low that the plebs aren't bullish enough or if the plebs slop has been directed in an un, like a non productive way and that is what's causing, like the, like the plebs are misaligned with, with where the slop should be leading him. Like the point of slop is to make plebs bullish. Right? That's why this should be the point of all slop. But the slop has been perverted. I think the slop has been perverted and a lot of the Energy in the slop has been directed towards, I think non productive, non bullish narratives. And I don't know, it feels like that's the issue to me. We need to get back to productive bullish pleb slop. Like, yeah, Moonboy, Hopium, caps lock stuff is super annoying, but it gets the plebs going. It gets the pleb, it gets me going, you know, and I'm, I'm aware that it's slop. So like, I don't know, where are you guys at on this? What, what is, what is, is the slop just, is the slop not sloppy enough from a bullish standpoint or is there something else at play?
- [31:42]
C
Dick, you're the expert here.
- [31:44]
B
You, you are.
- [31:44]
A
You really are. Dick. It's a loaded question. I know.
- [31:54]
B
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think it's important. I went on a rant about this last night on my stream. I've been on this kind of journey of crafting this narrative for a while that the plebs don't matter. It's kind of similar ideas that, that Svetsky was talking about last cycle. And I think it's like one of the things that's really important is just self awareness. I, I, I don't like the slop, personally. Like, it just doesn't, it doesn't do it for me. It doesn't get me excited. And I think part of the reason is because I'm not a pleb. I'm, you know, actively engaged in, in my story, in my life. Like when I think of like a plab, I think of somebody that, you know, just isn't an active participant. Like some people may call it NPCs, but you know, it's, and I'm not, I'm not talking about like the, I'm talking about the actual definition. I think people have tried to, you know, take the term plab and they try to self identify and say like, hey, I'm just like a normal person. Like, I'm not, I'm not part of the, the elite ruling class or are a power player. I'm just like a normal person that's interested in this technology, which I think is, you know, using the term plab is, is kind of lame because it's, it's synonymous with loser, which a lot of these individuals that refer to themselves as plebs are not losers. A lot of them are, to be fair. But a lot of individuals that refer to themselves as plebs are active participants in their lives or using their brains or trying to better themselves and build things and pursue a sense of meaning and purpose. And bitcoin is a role in that, of allowing them to do that which gets them excited about it. But I think self, you know, referring to yourself as a pleb, if you're an active participant in your, in your life story, is. It's just, it's. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like, the plebs are the ones that are sitting there slopping up the rizzo slop, repeating everything that they hear Larry Leopard say.
- [34:24]
A
And don't you slander Larry's name on here. I narrated his book and I won't stand for it. I just gotta let you know, because Larry's is honest slop. It's honest slop because he is a boomer. This is this thing. I don't think the. This is. This goes back to the original thesis. And I'm sorry to interrupt, but I got to here. I think that if you're not awake, like, I don't know, if you're a boomer and you're putting some of this stuff out and you're pro bitcoin, I'm willing to let some of the slop slide. And Larry's version of. Of slop is like the one you know, like, go like go your mother when he hears like something really stupid from like some, some other like, boomer economist, you know. And so like that to me, like telling somebody like, listen, you little shitbag, like, go yourself. That to me is like anti slob. Like that. That's. That's a, that's a way of kind of neutralizing slope. But again, I'm happy to be corrected here, but I did want to stand on that. And it's not just because I narrated Larry's book. It is actually just because I really like Larry. And I think that his particular brand, it resonates. At least it's honest. It's unfiltered. Also, it's not trying to be anything. And maybe that's where the nefarious part of plebsop comes in. Trying to be something that we know it's not. But if you're just honest about it, I don't know, maybe that's a different, like a different categorization.
- [35:51]
B
Well, I mean, the way, the way I look at it, you know, I wasn't trying to demean Larry. I just think a lot of things he does and, and says are sloppy. But like, you know, part, part of the thing, there's people that exist on different parts of the path. You know what I mean? And I feel like the Bugle exists at kind of the end of the path of, like, you kind of had to have been listening to 40 hours of podcasts a week for a while to understand what we're talking about. And Larry's at the, like, beginning of the path. And you know, when, when the, the. The problem with the fiat world and the belief in authority in general is it makes you retarded because you, Your entire worldview is, is, you know, essentially having reality dictated to you by, by people that don't have your self interest in mind. And so when you're bought into that system and being manipulated, it just makes you retarded. And so you come into this idea of bitcoin as a retard and you, you need the slop to kind of. To meet you. Because if somebody just starts, like, explaining Merkel trees to you.
- [37:12]
C
Flashbacks to coming into bitcoin, the way you're just connecting so many dots, Dick. Like, I needed the slop to get started. I needed the slot. I needed to get high on some Hopium. I needed to crash on the, on the Hopium withdrawal in the bear market. And through the bear market, I started muting the slop. And it's, it's kind of just a cycle of everything. And you're just like, I didn't think about this. You're just clarifying the history of my life in bitcoin, Dick. And I'm sorry to cut you off. You're just, just clicking for me.
- [37:51]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, like, the bitcoin standard is slop, but it's like effective slop. Like, it's, it's, it's slop that got a lot of people started off. But, like, once you learn a lot more and get more context on the, on the nuances of the way the world works, you kind of look back retrospectively and you're just like, oh, yeah, it's just like buzzword after buzzword after buzzword. And, you know, maybe. Maybe your tastes change. But I think like the. So I don't. I don't know about the. I mean, I guess like the, the. The bullish plebs flop that you're talking about is like trying to attract new people. That's, that's the goal of trying to convince more people to this, you know, perspective, you know, worldview. And like, I really believe in trying to craft, like, compelling stories and narratives like that. That's one of my passions. And the slop can be done in a compelling way against people excited in it. Like, I think it's more, I think I would align with what you're describing, which is because where is the conversation right now? Well, it's that the government is going to come in and prosecute you for running a bitcoin node unless you change your behavior and convince everybody else to change their behavior and start filtering transactions. That's not a compelling narrative that gets anybody excited about anything. It's a very destructive narrative where people are just like, oh wow. You know, because this is, what's going to happen is this endeavor is going to fail. And one of the reasons why it's going to fail is because it's just not, it's not compelling. Like if you're, if you're out there and you're trying to form bitcoin consensus, you have to convince a lot of players to come to your perspective and come into alignment with what you're trying to propagate. And these guys that are promoting this agenda have attacked literally everybody else. They've gone out and they, they have, they've told every mining pool that they're a bad actor, all their competitors, they have told all these other industry participants that they are bad actors. They have not made friends and they're not going to be successful as a result of that. And whipping up a pleb frenzy of scared people that think that the government's going to come in and prosecute them for running a bitcoin node. They're not interacting with anybody that matters that pulls any weight. If all you do is listen to bitcoin podcast with bitcoin mechanic and then go and you know, buy bitcoin on, on strike or whichever KYC bitcoin exchange and you withdrawn onto your hardware wallet of choice if that's all you do. And then you just yell about how Glory is like a leftist on Twitter. That's your, that's your contribution to the world. You don't matter. You literally have zero impact or value whatsoever in doing anything except for maybe irritating individuals that actually do have power and influence in the world. And, and so that's where the narrative's at. And it's a, it's a pretty lame narrative and I, I do agree that. But, but I, I think the price is going to lead the excitement this time around. I think the bitcoin's so saturated. I think the price is going to drive the compelling narratives and the exciting, bold hearted plebs slop. It's going to follow the price, it's going to Be backwards a little bit.
- [42:22]
A
So let me ask this because as you were saying, this question that naturally came to my mind, which is quite philosophical in nature, of course, and as a podcaster, this happens to me very often. It's almost, I, I can't, I can't help it. They've. Many universities have offered to give me an honorary degree in plebslop office. Yeah, whatever. My point being, do the ends justify the slop? Like, and I mean that is in a serious way, like, because that's kind of what you're getting at, right? Like you're, like, you're saying, okay, the bitcoin standard is slop, but like it's effective slop. Like, the bitcoin standard was hugely formative for me early in my journey. Right. Like, very grateful to Safe that he wrote that book. I think that's opened a ton of minds, opened a ton of eyes. And like once your eyes are open to how the world works or how you start to think that it works, then you go down different rabbit holes and figure out like you weren't even right about that. You never shut your eyes again. So like if the plebs slop has the ability to open people's eyes to the truth, does that justify it? Conversely then what you're describing, which I believe is in relation to the silent K movement, that, that slop doesn't seem to in my mind. And I know, you know, I've apparently been been branded as a courtyard and things like that for saying that you should run whatever node software you want. And I don't update my node, you know, very often at all. But you know, we'll let sleeping dogs lie or whatever analogy is appropriate there. My point being that like it seems that there's productive slop and there's unproductive slop. Like there's, there is slop that is net has a net benefit and slop that is net negative. Like maybe you could say there's positive sum slot slop and negative sum slop. I don't know if zero sum slop exists. Like, can zero sum slop exist? And if slop is positive sum, do the ends justify the slop? That, that would be my question. I, I would argue. And you know, I'll take the, I'll, I'll, I'll take the opposing view here. Maybe, or maybe it's not opposing, but I'll say in a lot of cases the ends do justify the slop. If the slop gets more, more people to take bitcoin into self custody after Getting an appropriately large UTXO so that they're not just getting dusted out like that, that's good slop. If the slop makes people, just to use that same analogy, if the slop makes people think that they should just immediately put the tiny little bit of bitcoin that they have in a hardware wallet right away and their UTXO is just going to eventually turn to dust because they got psyoped into thinking that they need to, like, transfer it immediately or as soon as their DCA hits that those SATs need to be going to their cold storage and other sats are going to be unspendable at some point. Like, that's, that's negative. Some slop, that's bad slop. So, like, I think the ends can justify the slop if the slop's end result is that it gets more people using Bitcoin in a positive, in a positive and constructive way. But I'm, I'm happy to be. You know, maybe you could, you could take the other view that no slop is justifiable. There are other ways to do it. But maybe it's just that we've been so conditioned by slop throughout everything in our lives. Put a different way, is slop a result of the fiat incentive structure? And does slop exist to the same degree in a hyper bitcoinized world? I've asked a lot of questions there, so I'll shut up for a second, but I don't know, I'm just glad we're exploring this because. And I want to say dick to, to you and Rod, the, The creation of plebs lob, the naming of the beast, I think will go down as one of the most impactful mimetic movements that bitcoin will see this decade. Maybe this, maybe, maybe ever, right? Because it's forced. It's really forced a reckoning, I think, and it's forced a self evaluation by purveyors of slop. And if you don't evaluate yourself, if you don't critically look and judge this through this slop lens, I don't know if you can ever actually get closer to truth. So I'll pause there for a moment. I'll have another sip of my delicious Peony Lane wine, made by Ben Justman here, winemaker and podcaster extraordinaire. This, this is a value for vino. This is a value for vino stream. Also, just so everybody knows. So I do have a financial interest in this in the sense that I'm drinking Ben's wine that he gave me. So I just want to. My lawyer wanted me to just say that disclaimer, so I'll stop there now. Discuss.
- [47:03]
B
Before we wrap up the stream. I. I want to know. I don't want to. I want to talk about your question, but I've got a great plebslop pickup line featuring Penny Lane.
- [47:16]
A
Oh, okay. I'm just going to add a little. I'm going to add a note to the side here so that we make sure that we hit that because we do need to.
- [47:24]
B
Yeah. Do the ends justify the means? I mean, I think this is, I think it's really important to live with integrity and to, to not intentionally mislead people and to lie to people. So I think, you know, when you believe something that's true and you've done work to understand it, Like, like one of the ways that you avoid getting deranged is you constantly quite question yourself and your motives. Like you, you have, you look in the mirror and you try to accurately evaluate yourself and you have other people around you to give you feedback as to what you're doing, people that you trust, people that you respect, people that have what you want in your life to keep you in check and make sure you don't, you know, go off the deep end. And like, when they give you feedback that might be uncomfortable, it's important to really like, take the heart instead of, you know, just being like, oh, you disagreed with me, so therefore you're an idiot. Like, you know, really like trying to evaluate it, you know, in question you might disagree with them, but you spend the process of thinking that. And, and so I think this pursuit of, of truth is important in general and I think we can all get off the map a little bit. But I think this having an end goal and trying to intentionally mislead people into getting to that end goal is problematic. And we're experiencing this right now of universally across the world, individuals have been a part of people trying to mislead them in a certain direction. We're dealing with the consequences right now. There's, there's blowback from it. And part of the reason why I don't particularly like to partake in the, in the sloth is it, you know, it sets me back. Like, you know, I, I could have a lot further reach, but it's just not my intention is to, to like, really get a lot of, you know, validation from the plebs or whatever. Like, I just want to, to say what I think is important and tell compelling stories like that's that's my goal. Like, I, I just enjoy the process, you know, crafting these. These stories. Like, it's just. It. It's a fun thing to do and like, it feels really good when people respond to it and see it is validating. But, like, I just don't really, you know, care about, like, a broader acceptance of, like, attempting to, like, get it launched on the podcast tour, you know, whatever. But so I think that's. That's the key is just like, you know, with. You can slop, but don't lie and don't, don't just. And I think, you know, have that process of critical evaluation because, like, when. When you're intentionally trying to mislead people. I think it's just a general disrespect for other people. And I think people might find, you know, they might accuse me of being disrespectful because I, you know, could be a little bit sharp with criticism sometimes, but I don't think the criticism is necessarily disrespectful. I just think it's. I try to be truthful with it, and oftentimes I'll criticize people but also share what I do like about them. It's not like this person is entirely bad, but I like, I think, you know, a lot of the problems, because you look at the way that discourse happens generally, from what I've seen, is a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to worry about what other people think and how they live and what should be done. Like, drugs should be illegal because somebody's gonna do it and not take care of their family or, you know, this. The law should be set in place because, you know, we need to take care of these people. And it's kind of a stupid waste of energy to spend a bunch of time, you know, in the, like, the bitcoin ecosystem does this a lot where they're like, we need to fix the money so that we can fix the world. We need to fix the incentives, you know, and, you know, make everything better for, you know, the fiat idiots who, you know, don't listen to bitcoin podcasts and read the bitcoin standard and use the language that we use. You know, the reality is, is, like, I think, you know, you have to think for yourself and focus on your own life, your own success, the things that you control. And believing that other people have the capacity to do that is having an attitude of respect for other individuals and not. Not having this, you know, very arrogant perspective of, like, I have the power to make decisions over other people's lives, you know, through. Through these policies or, you know, you know, whatever, like being a control over other people. And I, I really think it's through the empowerment and inspiring, like one of the ways that you empower people as you inspire them. And I think if you inspire other individuals to think for themselves, mostly by being an example, you know, start pursuing things that are important to them instead of being a, you know, a slave to the system, you know, just surrendering their mind to, you know, thought leaders or gurus or, you know, leader white, whatever it is. That's really where the change happens. And I think oftentimes just the emphasis, because the problem with the slop, you need something beyond the slop that's compelling. The slop is what brings people in. But you need something to keep people compelled, interested, engaged. If this ecosystem, in these ideologies, which a lot of us believe in, this idea of separating money and state and kind of libertarian.
- [54:34]
C
Ish.
- [54:35]
B
Libertarian is such a dirty word. It's been ruined by those retards in politics. But just this idea of liberty in general, if those are. Or compelling narratives like you need, because, like, what I've seen this happen over and over again where people will come in, they'll be all excited about these things, and then they'll kind of get tired of the slop. They'll get tired of not seeing things change, and they'll just become like, grumpy status and they'll hate the Jews or whatever it is that they get into. And that's all resulting from a lack of compelling narrative, you know, storytelling and, and stuff to keep people engaged. Because it's just like, you know, there's more to life than just, you know, buying bitcoin and waiting for the world to fall apart like, there. That'll only keep you entertained for a couple of years. You know what I mean? Like, you need something beyond that. And I think that's. That's where I get frustrated. And what I think is missing in this ecosystem in general, I think it's. It's missing in a lot of different areas of the world. And so, like, my quest is to. Or one of my quests is to. To really go find these individuals that are creating compelling stories and really, You know, trying to, like, promote them and, and work with them. So, I mean, I, I just don't. I don't think the, like, if you, if you teach somebody to not be like, the slop just doesn't. It doesn't hit the same. You know, what I mean, you need something beyond that.
- [56:27]
A
Ben, where are you at with this? Because I, I think that, I think that that's fair. The problem is that there's, there's a lot of retards out there and, and we can all have these tendencies, of course, but you know, it's, it's like, you know, the, the meme of that one guy who's probably, probably not a great dude, you know, or something. I'm sure there's lots of reasons that we, we shouldn't quote a guy like that, but he did cut, you know, the, the kind of Arab looking guy with the big old beard who's like, you know, problem with democracy is like, it's, you know, like, is the problem people are. Well, you know, like, I don't know if we, like, I don't know if we fix that.
- [57:08]
B
But.
- [57:08]
A
Ben, Ben, I'd love your over. Gosh, this Peony Lane wine. I'd love your take on this. Where, where are you at with this? Do you, do you share Dick's opinions regarding the, the slop? And just again, I think this, this comes back to people's resistances to it. Like, it comes back to where we started that just most people, like, most people just gobble up the slop. Like, that's why I've been putting that one weird pig that got memed with Sydney Sweeney, you know, and then put into a Lex Friedman suit. That's why I've been putting him as the thumbnail for all these live streams. Because to me, that pig is like really just a perfectly emblematic for some reason. It just feels like sloppy. Like that pig just gobbles up slop. You know it. But Ben, where are you at?
- [57:53]
C
Well, first I want to just give a shout out to Dick Greaser's integrity. Journalistic integrity came to mind a lot. But especially the word integrity with a lot of that that was like, like, I'm not joking. That, that just really hit me as well said. And I think in kind of the context of what we're talking about it, it makes me think about, yeah, sure, this arc of our journey where you kind of need something memetic, you need something stupid or whatever to just pierce your barrier and the way you think about the world and get you interested. And you're probably going to get high off that for a little bit until you start really diving deep, especially I mean into bitcoin, especially. And when we're talking about like existence on Twitter, posting on Twitter and, and what you like do and value there, I think it becomes, I mean everyone has different incentives, everyone's trying to build different things. Some people just want dopamine hits, some people just want to around and say whatever the hell they want. Some people are looking to like build a following, build connections, just actually learn things, whatever. And I think the amount of plebsop you get and the nuance within that kind of starts to tell you like what someone's actually looking for. And the Twitter noster, whatever is just like a, you know, it's one side of a person. But in thinking about it, like for myself, like I got sucked into plebsop and couldn't get enough of it and you know, plebsop changed my life. But I would say I've grown out of it. And the last time I really was plebslop it was kind of euphoric. It was a coming of age, it was getting above my cost basis and feeling finally like those weight lifted off my shoulders of being down in the bear market for so long that I don't know, I haven't felt that euphoria sense and I haven't really pleb slapped that hard since. But I think there's just, there's a lot of wanting for engagement and then there's a lot of also wanting deeper connections. And I find there. The deeper connections don't really scale as far as social media goes. They don't really scale as far as response goes and so they get muted out and you have to really curate your feed to find them and to find those people. So it takes work to, to. Once you, once you're kind of over the plebsop, you've had enough of it. It takes work to keep continuously clearing it off to find the stuff that you really want to engage in, the connections you really want to have. And it's gratifying to find those other people. And once, I don't know, there's just. I feel like I've just seen so many plebswaps over the years that it's just like every. So many things breed like that and I, I do like, I have nothing bad to say about Lawrence Leard. I, I think he's a good guy. I've, you know, meeting him a few times, nothing but good things to say about him. The title of his book is Pure Plebsop. Like that is the just that is like plebslop to a T the big print. That's why we're all here. That's what got us all in. And that's probably like that combined with the Quality of his book is, is, you know, just what Dick was saying is like, there's something behind it. The pleb slot brought them in, and there's something there. And it'd be one thing if the bitcoin plebslop was just that. And it was just. It was the crypto plebslop that's gonna, like, that leads to nothing. But at least with plebswap for bitcoin, there's some real substance behind it, and it's just. That's going to bring you in. So, yes, the, the ends justify the slop in my mind. And I hope slopping continues because my family still needs to get into the slop. They still need to get addicted to that. And I have one cousin who's addicted, and it's great to see. I love seeing his slop that he posts on Instagram. It brings me back to like, my glory days when I first got into slop. And I'm excited for him to move past it because it's also like, cringe for me to see because I see I used to post that same shit. But it's a phase we all have to go through for the most part.
- [62:27]
A
You know, it's. It's funny. It's like with bitcoin, it's like, come. Maybe, maybe it's. It's come for the pleb slop, stay for the revolution. You know, maybe pleb slop. Plebstop's top of the funnel ultimately, like, when it comes to bringing people in, right? Like that necessarily. So I think with the. To contrast it with, you know, quote crypto, it's like, that's not even pleb slop. That's just like. It's like VC slop. It's like, it's like, it's, it's, it's. It's grifter sl. I don't know what it is. It. It's just somehow like I don't even want to put it together because I don't think there's anything that can even be virtuous about it by nature of the coins that you're hawking through it. You know what I mean? Or it's like, like I. It just feels like that's just like this whole Zcash manufactured support from. Just so happens all the VCs are really showing it hard. And all the biggest crypto pumpers are just showing it really hard that they all just suddenly cared about privacy. It's amazing we were all came to this conclusion at the exact same time. Shocking, right? Shocking.
- [63:37]
C
We were wrong because it pumped.
- [63:39]
B
So what can you do?
- [63:42]
A
Yeah, you know, but it's like, I don't know. I think that there ultimately is a place for plebslav. But if you like, here's something that Dick and I think this was part of the brilliance of you guys really kind of coining this term is that if you're offended by somebody saying that you're engaging in plebslop, then, like you're telling on yourself. Right? Like, if you're offended by it, you're telling on yourself. And I, I don't think I'm. I still just haven't even seen most people come to that realization. But are you with me on this, Dick? That like anyone, if you are, if you are accused of plebslop, you get like, really offended by that. That's just kind of like, it's like, well, you know, like now we know you told on yourself. Is that. Is that how you're viewing this as well?
- [64:42]
B
Yeah. I love that people are mentioning Crowder in the live stream chat.
- [64:48]
A
Which livestream, because we've got, we've got. We've got a couple on here. Is this on Slop Tube?
- [64:55]
B
I'm watching the. The Riverside chat right now, so it's probably okay. A few platforms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People like to tell on themselves for sure. I mean, it's just, it's been, it's just been interesting to, to see over time people kind of reveal themselves. And. And I think the fun thing about the Bugle is like our agenda is just to report the news. And people are kind of baffled by that. Oftentimes they're trying to. They're constantly trying to figure out what our ulterior motive is. And people get mad at us, you know, and the, the people that get mad at us are. You know, it's funny. It's just, it's, you know, the, the entire ecosystem that we exist in is the conversation is predominantly driven by people with an agenda to sell a trinket to a pleb. And it makes it confusing. But yeah, the, the trinket salesman oftentimes they, they get a little bit frustrated with us and it's. I wish they would send me angry emails, long drawn out emails, but I, I haven't really got it. The only person I've gotten that from was safe at the one time.
- [66:32]
A
What. What is your email? So people know where to send their hate mail? Because I know you. You said this when we, this the last time we were potting together and you were Like, I wish I just, I just want people to take the time to send me like a, just some real quality hate mail, not plebstop hate mail, like real quality. So where should people direct their hate mail if they really just, if, if it's non slop hate mail, like really put some time into it. People, if you're, if you're gonna, you know, tell Dick how you feel, like don't, don't. And don't you use AI because Dick will know. You know.
- [67:04]
B
The bitcoin bugle@protonmail.com It's a place to send it. There we go. Yeah, I mean one thing I want to talk about, like one of the thing I like about both you guys is you both are living out compelling stories and you share bits of it and pieces of it, which I think is, is helpful. It's helpful for people to see examples like, Walker, you're building a family. Your bitcoin podcast or you're an active participant in your life. You got your, you know, your wife is also an active participant. It's cool to watch. And you know, Ben, you're building a business like furthering a family, family legacy. You know, with your dad, you care about your craft. One of the things I love about the way that you market things is like you're telling the story of the wine, like local Colorado, small town, multi generational project. Like it, you know, both of those things. Both of you guys are living into, you know, this idea of being an active participant and telling a compelling story and you're, you know, for, for people to see, like you're being legitimate examples in a world that's so full of poor examples. And I don't think that's slop. And like, I appreciate that.
- [68:38]
A
Yeah, I, I, yeah, thank you. Oh, go ahead, Ben.
- [68:44]
C
It, where's your, what's your is Stack Hodler slot?
- [68:51]
B
I don't know what Stack Hodler is.
- [68:54]
C
Damn. Okay, Walker, what do you think?
- [68:59]
A
I, I find, I find his, like, I enjoy his posts, I will say and like I've reached out to him before being like, hey, like, because he, he tends to cut through a lot of the, the sentiment at times recently I've noticed and Stack, if you're listening to this, like, I mean this with the utmost respect, I've noticed a little bit of a twinge of slop in there. It feels a little, it feels a little bit less pure than what it, what it used to be, which I think was, was, was really honestly pure signal and cutting through the rest of the slop it was the signal amidst the noise of slop. Now, I don't know if it's just a sign of the times. I don't know what it is, but I like, I like, I don't know. Personally, I generally like his posts both like, you know, liking them, like, hey, that's nice. And also like, you know, smashing that like, button. But yeah, that's a fine line. I would say that, that, that would be just sometimes just on the verge. I don't think that's full blown plebs slop. Like, I think that we have so many other clear examples of like, really, I mean, like pure bread pleb slop that it feels almost unfair to categorize that as pleb slop. I don't know where you're at with that, Ben.
- [70:18]
C
Well, I would say the, the worst thing you could say about it is it's the, the thing that's going to wean you off. Pleb slop.
- [70:26]
B
Yeah, it's like methadone.
- [70:29]
A
Exactly, exactly. No, like, that's the thing. Like, at least, at least it's, it's well thought out. It's a, it's original. Because that's the thing so much. Plebswap is just formulaic, right? It's easily like, that's, that's the whole point of it. It's like, it's just. And at least I feel like when I was getting into bitcoin, you know, back in my day, during the depths of COVID insanity, I feel like this slope was somehow. I mean, maybe everybody says this. Everybody said, you know, back in my day we had real plebs slop, you know, not this, you know, you know, whatever generic version, Walmart brand plebslop. It just felt like the plebslop was better, you know. And maybe again, maybe everybody says that, but now it's just like. And again, the vibes have just been weird. Like, it's just been weird that we've got this cohort of people who are definitely not comprised of a lot of bots and feds. They're all actual people who just happen to hold really tenuous grips on reality, I think, which is honestly more sad. But I respect their right to believe whatever they want and to believe in the efficacy of whatever they want. I support their right to identify as a silent K, but it's just so like low grade. Like, it's just like really, like, I don't know, like, just rough. Just like it's really rough slop. It's like you wouldn't Even feed this slop to pigs. I wouldn't even feed it to the Eastern European Lex Friedman dressed pleb slop pig that I have in this thumbnail, you know, because the pig would turn up its nose at this slop. Like, it's just like. But somehow it's working. Like, somehow it's like it's convincing people that. That this is. This is the righteous path. And that's what's crazy to me is like, have we fallen so far that we are convinced, you know, that we are made to believe we are on the cause of the righteous and the just and, you know, the true, that we're on the mission with this low quality of slop? Like, not many things make me lose hope, but, boy, that. That is a. That. That's one of them that starts to get me there. It's like, boy, you know, what's that? What's that thing? It's like, like, I. I care not. I care not for your booze. Like, I've seen what makes you cheer that thing. You know, it's kind of like that, like, man, just low grade. Like, like, do better. If you're gonna slop, at least do better. Like, at least put in some effort to your slop. Stop with your overly wordy memes that aren't funny at all. Like, if your memes aren't funny, you're probably on the wrong side of things. Generally. That's. That's a good. For me, that's always a good barometer. It's like, if your memes suck, it generally means you don't have the truth on your side. If you have to have too many words in your memes, it probably means, well, one, it's obviously not funny because, like, you shouldn't need very many words, right? Unless it's like a meta meme where that's like the whole point sidebar. But, like, if your memes suck, you're probably not on the quote right side. But also, even dividing it into sides is a. It's like it's creating a false dichotomy right there. Like, the whole sides thing, like, us versus them within this bitcoiner space is already slop. Like, that's already slop. So here I go. And, you know, and now who am I to say, like, here I am falling into slop traps by doing an us versus them. Because it isn't an us versus them if you have the same consensus rules as me or bitcoiners. And if you don't, okay, you can feel free to fork right Off. And I also just don't care what you do. I'm just saying, like, do whatever you want. I don't fucking care. Just have better memes. At least have a little bit of integrity with your memes. Put in a little bit more thought. And if you can't make your memes good, then maybe you just need to reevaluate your position. Because, like, the memes are essentially a way to distinguish distill truth into easily digestible, easily spreadable formats. That's what a meme is. That's why everyone says the left can't meme. It's true. Like, the, like the left's memes generally just suck because they don't have truth on their side. Like, like communists can't meme. They can't. Like, you ever seen a communist? That could mean, have you ever seen a good communist meme?
- [74:51]
B
It's not possible, actually.
- [74:52]
A
You can't have a good communist meme because communism is retarded. Like, you just, you can't do it. You can't do it. And so it's like, if your memes suck, then, then like, look in the.
- [75:04]
B
Mirror, you know, you need to listen to like, Jimmy Dore, the Cometown podcast. There's some communists that are pretty good. Okay, they're, they're fully. They start talking about anything, their memes are good, but then they start talking, like, trying to explain their memes, and they're just, they kind of get. But yeah, there's. Okay, leftist memers. But yeah, I get what, I get what you're saying, broadly speaking, for sure.
- [75:28]
A
Yeah. Okay, we can, we can find exceptions to a, to a rule. But like, broadly speaking, the left can't meme. And like, it's not even that the right can meme that well, but they just certainly are better at it. Like, not so much like the, the statist cuck, right, but more of like the, I don't know, whatever you want to call them, you know, whatever label you put on them. Like the less status do you write? Because that's the thing is like, it's ultimately like, it's, it's status all the way down, whether it's left or right. Right. Like, that's where we've gotten to now is that basically everybody is just a bit of a statist cuck. And it's just like, what color statistic you want to be. Like, you want to be a red status cuck or a blue status cuck. Like, you get to choose Coca Cola or Pepsi Cola cuck. Like, it's it's up to you. No Mountain Dew cookery, though. None of that. Certainly not any Dr. Pepper cookery. Oh, I didn't even mean to bring up Dr. Pepper, but, you know, because we all know what that means here.
- [76:20]
B
Yeah, I. So the left versus right, like, attempted to put people on these sides. I consider that, like, fighting words. Like, some guy, someone walks up to the bar, whispers in your ear, I fucked. I'm ready. I'm gonna fuck your wife tonight. You know, you turn around, you're like, okay, loser. And then they just keep on, like, spitting in your face and, like, getting up in it and just, like, being really aggressive. I feel like that's what the left and right attempt to, like, categorize people in the left or right. It's very, you know, insulting. It's like, it's just. It's. It's lame. Like, it's very lame. Like, hey, we're watching, you know, the people on the right and the left, you know, argue back and forth about absolutely nothing, and they just, like, completely miss the point of what's going on right now. And you're trying to, like, replicate that in this ecosystem, which is supposed to be about, you know, thinking about things a little bit more critically and, you know, pursuing truth. It's like, yeah, you know, you. Dude, I'm gonna. I'm not gonna stand for this. But, yeah, it's. It's funny just looking at, like, the left and the right divide. Like you're watching the right wing media ecosystem. Like there was this huge kind of, I don't know what you call it, but like, you know, movement, and it all kind of culminated with Trump or ended with Trump getting selected and then Charlie Kirk getting assassinated, and now it's in shambles. But there's like an interesting dynamic in the. In the narrative in the United States. I imagine this is globally, but I think it's mostly in the United States. Is this idea of an underdog story, like this resistance story, like the origin story story of the United States with the revolutionary war against the British, is this idea of, like, these underdogs going up against the biggest, you know, empire in the world, and they. They replicate this in the political process every four years where. And you see this oscillation back and forth between the right and the left, or the right will be the, you know, the incumbents and, and represent the. The empire, and the left will be the resistance against that. Like the George Bush years, you know, with Obama coming against it, you know, being anti war, and it oscillates back and forth and, you know, back and forth and back and forth and captivates people in it, thinking that they're like a part of the. The resistance. And like, the right has completely fallen off right now because they're the incumbents. Like, guess what? All you guys that bought into this bullshit probably voted for a pedophile who's like, gaslighting you about the Epstein list and, you know, printing a fuck ton of money and launching Salon of Meme coins and, you know, implementing a bunch of central planning bullshit and furthering the survey doing all the same bullshit. Um, but maybe he doesn't like transgender bathrooms. So it's a little bit better than the other guy. But like, this oscillation, you know, back and forth and kind of the, the hijacking of this narrative of like, you know, the, the underdog resistance is like, you know, people in the United States need to realize that they live in the capital city of the Hunger Games, the capital district. District number one. You're not the underdog. You're living in a country whose government is going in pillaging the rest of the world. Trump's. Trump's like, you know, angling like he's going to invade Venezuela. Who knows what's going to happen there? But, like, that's not the underdog type situation at all. And, you know, who's the underdog in the story is the individual standing up against the system, which is trying to extract wealth from you. Like, that's the real underdog. And you don't, you don't. By participating in the system and giving legitimacy to it, you're actually giving legitimacy to the empire and not the underdog in the story. In no way are you rebelling if the lapse in power and you're on the right, you're trying to get your pedophile elected. You're not the underdog. You're just being duped by plebslaw, by political plebs law. And same thing goes for the left. The people on the left are getting all wild right now, and I think their memes are going to be a lot better because the right's just going to be trying to gaslight you this, you know, for the next few years. And to why the. The incumbent that's doing all this bullshit is like, legitimate and good. Well, at least it's not the Democrats. It's like these guys are trying to bring this type of stuff to this, you know, social ecosystem as lame, you.
- [81:57]
A
Know, okay, first of all, Dick, you're just, you're bringing the heat tonight, I gotta say. Second of all, I think political slop is like quite possibly the worst type of slop, right? Because it's just the most disingenuous. Because the ultimate goal of that slop, like the ult. At least the ultimate goal, hopefully of most hopefully bitcoin plebslop, is to get more people onboarded into bitcoin. That's at least a righteous goal, right? That's a noble pursuit. And I think the ends justify the means in that case. And I'm talking specifically, I'm not talking about all the bitcoin plebslop that's out there right now, obviously. I'm not talking about silent K plebslop. I, I'm talking about orange pilling plebslop, right? That's at least noble political pleb slop. It's like you're just slopping to try and convince people to vote for your side. Because like that, like, is just the different side of like the same coin. Ultimately it's just like, oh, okay, like who. Who's gonna steal more from me? Who's gonna grow the government a little bit less or a little bit more, depending on what I like? Because they're both growing the government. Like it doesn't matter who's gonna print like a little bit more or a little bit less money? Who's gonna give me more free shit, who's gonna send me another stimmy check? Who's gonna, you know, forgive my student loans? Like, who's who give me more free. It's like the meme, like, you know, put it there. It's like, who's gonna give me more? That's ultimately what political slop is catering towards. And, and it's, it's just ultimately like, it's just kind of gross. And something you were saying though, Dick, it made me think because I was saying I made this statement of the left can't meme and that's obviously right wing pleb slop also like just that statement inherit, like if we're like that, if we look at the meta slop. But I think what you're just saying that made me think of this is the reason that we. The perception has correctly been that the left cannot meme is because at least for, for a while, the left was the incumbent, right? And be. If you are the incumbent, your memes are going to be just not quite as good, right? If like, if you're the underdog, you have the ability to create a better memetic narrative. I think like just necessarily so and so maybe that's it. It's like, you know, because boy, like there's a lot of fodder for, for memes for the left right now. If they want to, if they, if they, if they're paying attention, the left has the capability, they've got all the tools to be able to do some pretty good memeing. Like, Trump makes that easy in a lot of ways, right? And Trump is like also this kind of like really just incredible mimetic force of his own, right? And it's, it's honestly like, it's insane to see the dude is like love him or hate him or don't give a flying. Like he is a unique individual and has a very unique energy about him. And boy, he's good at the pleb slop, man. Like, Trump is a master of pleb slop that I think like you, no one can deny that, right? And there's some truth behind a lot of his slop, but a lot of it is just like, is just complete slop. But there's like the arguments to justify sending out $2,000 stimmy checks, that's slop. Like, the fact that he was talking about it While talking about 50 year mortgages at the McDonald's conference is just like memetically beautiful. Somehow unintentionally so, but really memetically beautiful as bitcoin's crashing. Like, there's so many layers to that. It's incredible. But there's a, like Trump is a, he's a slop pusher. You know, every politician must be like, that's how they, you know, maybe Thomas, Matt, I would say Thomas Massie is probably the least, the least slop pusher of the politicians that we have in the US Right now. I don't know where you guys are at with him, but to me, he at least feels like again, if he is engaging in slop, it's, it's at least a little more justified. At least he's not just, you know, cow toeing and, and voting with whatever the party line is, at least he has some balls to be able to say no. I think that's stupid because that's what, like, if you can't do that, if you can't just step back and say like, my side is doing something that's stupid, then it's like, well, your opinion's just, it's not actually real. You don't, you don't actually have an opinion. You just have a party line and you're not willing To. To cross it it because you've been duped into thinking that I cannot possibly say anything bad about insert my team color. Like, can't say anything bad about red team. Can't say anything about blue team because I'm on that team. Those that can when they're perceived like, if you can say bad things about red team when you're perceived as being on the red team, if you can say bad things about blue team when they do stupid stuff when you're perceived as being in the blue team, I'll at least have a little bit of respect for you because I know that you're at least trying to tell the truth and you're not just kind of willfully going along with the party line of whatever the plebslop du jour happens to be. So, Ben, you're awfully quiet. You might need some more. You might need some more Peony Lane wine. Apparently I have Penny Lane wine. Penny Lane wine. It will make you less pleb sloppy, but it'll make you a little more sloppy.
- [87:07]
C
Yeah, I'm still working. I pretty much. You're killing it, dude. So I want to unfortunately, like, I pretty much always go the positive route, but where this is bringing me is a little bit of a downer in terms of like, the discourse across slop lines.
- [87:26]
B
And.
- [87:29]
C
So I. I had a post blow up on threads last week and it's never happened to me before, but I pushed the right button and I talk shit about socialism and the slop I received in response for that was insane and the memes were horrible and everything sounded like a bot. Like every post that was long was just like frustrate. Like, what were you even talking about? It was the same thing over and over, same people saying the same stuff. And unfortunately it made me think about the times where, like, I've said something jokingly anti bitcoin that people didn't, you know, people who didn't know me saw it and didn't know I was joking or something like that. And I got the same kind of responses from bitcoiners, very sloppy responses that were all repeating the same thing. All like, not getting it just disconnected. And, you know, part of that's just. It's social media. I don't have time to know who you are. I don't have time to hear you out. I'm just going to respond quickly and. But like commenting, have fun staying poor or you get it at the price you deserve. Or like all the. The common bitcoin slop phrases. It's just it just doesn't get anywhere because, because like, I, I feel like the people who receive those comments hear those things in the exact same way that I was hearing these pro communist comments of just like, that's total and stupid. And I, like, I've looked into this as much as I need to and don't need to take your opinion seriously because you're some random person online. And it's, it's unfortunate because taken to the extreme is what most of us are seeing is in terms of the political slop and like the downstream effects of that are people getting sucked into the political slop and posting on social media that if you voted for Trump, I'm not friends with you anymore. I don't want to associate with you anymore. And coming from a place where, you know, most of my friends throughout my entire life, and me throughout my entire life voted Democrat and, and the socialist Democrat, you know, it's, it's, it's harmful to relationships because it's you. Those conversations are difficult to have because people are so sucked into slop and not willing to go deeper than that. And these triggers are like somehow ingrained into our minds that you need to get triggered on these certain statements.
- [90:10]
A
And you.
- [90:11]
C
I, I don't know how they do it, man. The CIA or whoever this is is incredible at what they do because it's working and it's dividing us and it's frustrating and it's really fun to pick a team in a duopoly. It just sucks when that really matters. Like, I am hardcore Coke, dude, Pepsi, but that doesn't matter. You know, I'll probably drink a Pepsi if someone offers me a Pepsi and Coke. But when it comes to politics and like, it sucks to see the division in America and listening to you guys, like, I pretty much, I don't even know what Silent kbs. I have no idea. I mean, I have an idea what you guys are talking about, but I've never heard that before. And you guys are so much more deep into the, the world of the, the knots versus core movement and Walker, like, I've heard you talk about it and I've, I've seen you talk about it and I'm like, damn, I just have no interest in it. 1. It's just not something I'm interested in. And I'm just like, I'm just trying to be me online, but so like, I don't care to take a stand on that. And I'm like, damn, you going for it. You're gonna, you're gonna take that the brunt of that. I've seen it. I know it's. I know. And then Dick, I'm like, you have such a great time with it and you've leaned into it and you've also seen all the shit. But I think people approach you differently in how they respond to you on that. But you've also fucking attacked and made some enemies. It's a bit hilarious, like, having, like. I've never watched Matt Crater's show. I just don't watch YouTube Bitcoin content personally and. But he shouted me out a number of times and I appreciate that. And I've watched those to see what's up and seems like a great guy. I've never met him, but just like having that context of like, this seems like a nice dude. And then, like, knowing Dick, I'm like, this is a great dude. Like, very thoughtful. And seeing these, it's wild, man. Things are so heated up and it's all these, like, people that I know that are so great in so many other contexts and are riled up into this us versus them mentality. It's hard. It's. It's hard to watch. And I think that that's why I've kind of muted it out. It's also just like, I feel like I formed an ambivalent opinion about it pretty early and was surprised that it was still. It's still going on. Honestly, like, now I. I kind of get why, I guess. But like, for a little bit I was like, damn, they're still talking about that. So I applaud you guys for being vocal about your opinions in public. And I guess this is my coming out party to the few people watching that. I don't care. I'm. I'm good. Yeah, I'm, I guess in the, in the dick greaser way of saying it.
- [93:17]
B
He'Ll be.
- [93:20]
C
Disappointed in me calling myself a pleb, that my opinion does not matter here.
- [93:24]
B
Dude, you're. You're a pioneer.
- [93:27]
A
You're here.
- [93:28]
B
But you. Yeah, I mean, you could. You could definitely. You. Anybody has the right to say, I don't really have strong opinion on the subject because I just don't know about it.
- [93:38]
A
More people should actually take that stance. That's a reasonable. That's a very reasonable and sensible stance to take. Go ahead, Dick.
- [93:51]
B
Like, if somebody's going to ask me about quantum resistance at bitcoin, which I've spent no time understanding because it just sounds like a bunch of slob fear slop to me, but, you know, it could be a real issue. I just haven't ever prioritized it, but I just don't really have an opinion on it because, I don't know, it's just not my expertise. Like, you know, most of like, the journalism my practice is engaged in, like the. The social aspect of this stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's. I'm kind of amazed that, you know, the reason why this debate goes on. And I've kind of wondered if, you know, this whole movement has just been like an elaborate performance art trolling campaign. Whatever's going on. There's a lot of sophisticated individuals that are very like, knowledgeable at manipulating people. People both from like the just like inherent, like language and. And talking. But also like what you were describing, Ben, is there's this game of influencing perception online with bots, you know, and really artificially amplifying stuff. And I think there's a lot of that. You know, this is something that was discussed a lot in the block size wars. Is there. There was a lot of pseudo spoofing happening within the various factions that were arguing with each other. I don't think it was as clear oversimplification to say small blockers versus big blockers. And I think it's a oversimplification to try and paint it as like core versus ocean and crater. But. Yeah, I mean, it's a. It's a. The reason why it keeps on going on is because these guys just keep on saying stupid things. And like all these. All these people that are, you know, somewhat informed and intelligent just cannot resist dunking on people. Like, you got a pleb coming out here issuing the most retarded purity test based on goo Goo Gaga, plebs slop. And it just. It's so hard to control yourself. He's just like, I'm just gonna just absolutely pulverize, you know, this guy that has no self awareness, that thinks that. It's like when a child comes from the kids table and hurls a handful of mashed potatoes right at your face. Can you resist just slapping him?
- [96:48]
A
You try to, I guess, but that's slightly different. Because the kid may not know better, but what we're talking about are fucking adults that should. Alleged. I mean, alleged adults. They could be, you know, they could be bots, but they're not. And you can't call them bots because you can't possibly. That's. That's just super offensive. It's. By the way, it's really offensive. I want to say, Ben, I think you are. You have actually taken the Appropriate stance on this, which is you're trying to run a business. You are actually walking the walk. You are building a business around bitcoin and bitcoiners in the bitcoin community. For anyone that doesn't know that hasn't seen seen us drink it, you built a business around peony Lane wine. You guys should go and order some Peony Lane wine. It's awesome. Ben accepts bitcoin for it. He went and started selling it at farmers markets for bitcoin. Having a bitcoin accepted here and then you change it to a bitcoin preferred here sign. If I, if I remember correctly, that's like for those of us that have been following your journey, I think it's been fucking amazing. Like it's been amazing to see because you actually walk the walk and you talk the talk and you drink the drink and you wine the wine and you all the other things. This like, this is what bitcoin is all about. Is enabling somebody like you to do things in a really low time preference way to create a really amazing product that people are willing to part. Like creating such a great product that people are willing to part with the scarcest money that has ever existed in exchange for that product. That means your product is fucking good. Like that, that, that means something. And so for you to be like, yeah, you know, I just don't really have an opinion on this. Great. Like, because you don't need to because this is not going to go on forever. This is like right now a lot of people have, this has turned into an identity politics thing. That that's what's ultimately happened. It's weaponized identity politics and it's the same. I think that's why the slop is so particularly bad in this particular arena is because it's ultimately just political slop. It's just dumbed down political slop. And I know a lot of people have again made this part of their identity. Like that's what identity politics is. So that you can't, you can't even hear an opinion contrary to your own without taking it as a personal affront. Like this is the definition of identity politics. Anyone that's not with us must be against us. And they must also hate children and want bitcoin, bitcoin to be destroyed. And like we, what we really need is to be getting daddy government in here to tell us what's okay to do while we have fucking open source software developers like the Samurai Wallet devs like bitcoin Fog, like tornado cash, like being literally prosecuted for writing software. But you. You want a little bit more of daddy government to come in there, like, give me a fucking break. And so what I want to say is, like, I applaud you for just fucking focusing on your craft, accepting bitcoin, actually using bitcoin, something a lot of these people who are screeching online probably don't, and just fucking living your life because that's what you should be doing. That's the whole fucking point of bitcoin, is that you can just focus on your craft. Try to get better at something. Try to. Try to just get a little bit better at something. Maybe try to be the best at something if you can be. Try to live your life. Focus. Focus on family. Focus on what matters. Focus on spending time outside and touching grass and not being a whiny little all the time and just let this stuff blow over. Like, because, like, and I'm sorry this. This going to offend a lot of people, but, like, it's not going to amount to anything. Do whatever you want. I don't care. I do not care what you do. I fully support you doing whatever the fuck you want. As long as you're listening to 40 hours of Bitcoin podcast per week, we're on the same side. Maybe you're listening to more plebslop podcast than I am, but ultimately, I think, Ben, that you are a really great example of just living the bitcoin ethos, and I think we need more of that. Like, you make great wine and you sell it for bitcoin. That's cool. That's just like. That's just. That's just an undeniably cool thing. So, like, and you're. You may now, Ben, just so you know, you've now been on a podcast with me and Dick, which means you're automatically going to get labeled probably a bad actor. You're going to get put into some really. Just. Just terrible memes, probably. And I don't mean terrible like, oh, they're so hurtful. I mean terrible like, they're just bad. Like, they're just weak. They're low T memes. And you know what? Because you, you know, silence is violence ultimately. Have you guys noticed that that's also a tactic that's been used? Like, they literally use the silence as violence thing. And it's like, God, Ah. Just like, it's just embarrassing at this point. But I digress. What I'm trying to say, Ben, is I appreciate you. Do whatever the fuck you want. Just keep making wine and keep living the bitcoin ethos and keep orange pilling people by. By giving them a great product that they're willing to exchange their hard earned sats for after they finally get orange pilled on the bitcoin. Keep having bitcoin be preferred. You're doing a fucking great job. You're leading by example and the rest of you fucking listening. Maybe you can't make wine, but you can do something to create more value than just posting slop on the Internet. That's what I was ran. Rant concluded it.
- [102:16]
C
Cheers, man.
- [102:18]
B
Takes a lot of courage not to join the bandwagon. You get to do. Okay, you get to do whatever, what, whatever you want to. It's your decision if you choose not to.
- [102:33]
C
Yeah, you got to see that there's more than just the bandwagon. And I think the, the best thing about what I do like the, the world that I've been able to see in bitcoin is I don't just see like a bunch of influencers. I don't see a bunch of, you know, people arguing about stupid shit core knots. Like that's one of many stupid shit arguments is I. I interact with people who like really care about the mission and they really care about the connections and I've really care. Like I was the same way. So it's, it's just been the perfect opportunity for me to connect with people who really care about bitcoin and connecting with other bitcoiners. And a lot of that is like loneliness in the sense of, you know, there's. I don't. I have a one. I have a few bitcoin homies around, but I, I need more and I don't know, I. The thing that kept me going, like found bitcoin, freaked out bitcoiners, started buying my wine and then at the bottom of the bear, some bitcoiners really made a point to pay in bitcoin and I held that bitcoin and I'll always remember that because it was a pretty low time in my life for more than just bitcoin reasons. So I really felt that it's really been there for me. And the community aspect of bitcoin is not something that I just like the Twitter community, the people online. It's these people who really make a meaningful difference, really care and really want to vote with their money and see bitcoin succeed. And I don't think a lot of people really get to see that I'm the outlet for a lot of people, they, They've never bought anything with bitcoin before, I, like, I can't, like, it's special every time. I can't tell you how many times people have. Have told me this is the first thing that I've ever bought, like, physical thing I've ever bought with bitcoin. And that's telling to me that, like, people need more of these connections. So, yeah, I'm doing it. It's obvious that I should be doing it. It's obvious that every business should be doing it, but they're not. And I hope that more and more do and it becomes desensitized to spend your bitcoin. Or I get less and less people saying that you're the first place I ever spent my bitcoin. You know, that means we're winning. That means we're doing great. And it's hard to see the fighting because we're like, I. I don't care who. Where you land on core versus knots. I care that you use bitcoin as money. I care that we take money printing away from the state. And I don't know, I have this unique perspective in the sense that I'm always interacting with that I have people that are. Due to some frustrating alcohol regulations, it's harder to buy my wine with bitcoin than it is fiat. And for years, literally the only way you could buy my wine with bitcoin was to text me to DM me and I would send you an invoice that would expire in an hour. So I'd have to send four invoices until you checked your DMs. And it's hard, but people are like, I have to pay with bitcoin. And it's not just online, like when I had that tasting room or when I had the farmer's market stand. So, like, you know, it was maybe one person a week would. Would pay with bitcoin. And those people were so pumped. One of my favorites is, well, one, I had a guy wait 40 minutes standing next to me for a block to clear so he could get his lightning and his lightning wallet filled so he could pay with. And another one, a dude came up to me and introduced himself and I asked him his name, and he said, my name's Ben. And he said, I want to pay with bitcoin. And then I asked him if he was on Nostr and he said yes. And it was just like this, like, where that. What the hell? Like, that doesn't happen. I don't know, man. Another one incredible story to round out the shitty telling of that Last story, I had my. My first year selling it for bitcoin. I had just gotten, like, Dan held came up and bought wine from me randomly. And I didn't even have a lightning wallet yet. I didn't know how to use lightning. But a couple weeks later, I figured it out, and a woman comes up and she goes, you accept bitcoin, you're into bitcoin. And real quick she's like, I gotta go get my husband. And she, like, disappears. I'm like, whatever, this is kind of hilarious. But getting her husband, I get it. And she comes back up tailing her husband, and she goes basically, like, presents him. Like, talk to him. Please talk to him about bitcoin. And this guy just, you know, he vacations in Telluride and lurks on Twitter. Doesn't, you know, would never have met him there, but met his wife who introduced me to him, and it was like he was just craving this connection to other bitcoiners and I was too. And he's just like this great guy who cares about his family and, like, has the same morals as me and found bitcoin and wants to, you know, wants bitcoin to win and wants other bitcoiners to win. Like, he, you know, he makes a point every year to buy wine for me just as like a, hey, you're doing the right thing. I want you to win. And there's so many people like him in bitcoin that the arguing, the calling names, the think, the division just makes me laugh because the difference between bitcoiners and the rest of the world, as far as, like, how much we agree is just so large. I. I don't think people, like, when you. When you just live your bitcoin life on Twitter, you don't see it. And when you go to conferences, you, you know, you get pissed off about all the shitcoinery, whatever. But there is so much good intention and good hearts in bitcoin. I.
- [108:53]
B
It.
- [108:53]
C
It hurts to see the. The division. And I'm. I'm really happy I get to see the. The bright underbelly.
- [109:01]
A
Did. First of all, I love the stories and I think that the. The story about the dude who's just like, lurking on Twitter and. Or formerly Twitter now X and but buys wine from you in bitcoin every year. That's. That's just like. That's just a normal fucking person, right? Who's like, yep, I bet. I bet that dude, if I had to guess, I bet he doesn't give a fuck about the core versus Knots debate. Like, I bet he doesn't have a strong side pick there. I bet he's not accusing other people of being, you know, pedos and everything. Like, I bet he's not. Bet he's not doing that. He's probably just trying to provide value, be a good husband and maybe father, you know, to his, his family. And he's putting his money where his mouth is. He's voting with his. Voting with his wallet, voting with his feet. And he's actually spending bitcoin. Like, I, I don't know. That's like, like, that's a bitcoiner right there. You know, you don't have to get rage baited into every little thing like that. That, that's some, that's some fiat mentality stuff. That's not to say you shouldn't care about anything ever. It's not to take the other extreme. You should care about things. We're all here because we care very deeply about bitcoin. That's why. And we care deeply about podcasting about bitcoin. These are things that we know we, we hold very dear, right? And we believe are meaningful. But, like, either extreme is not good. You don't want to, like, do not. You don't have to be susceptible to every little psyop that comes along. And I'm not saying saying it's a psyop. Guys like, you know, anybody wants to can probably very selectively edit this and I hope that they do. Like, please clip this. Make. Make me more of a villain. I, I am happy to be a perceived shield on. On. You know, this is really the role of. This is what it comes out. This is the role of the podcaster, right? The role of the podcaster is to basically be the, you know, like, you're not the developer. The developers are the tip of the spear, right? They're the ones like writing open source software, whether that be on bitcoin's layer one, whether that be on Lightning, whether that be on Cashew or Fediment or Arc or any of these other things that are coming up that I still need to learn more about. Like, the developers are the tip of the spear, Podcasters are the shield, right? You need to be able to provide the COVID Like, and those that can't do podcast, like, this is.
- [111:28]
B
This is.
- [111:28]
A
This is what. This is what it is. And so, yeah, I, I love those stories though. Like, that's, that's got to be extremely gratifying to have somebody who is like, you just randomly met at a farmer's market. Because his wife was like, here, please like, talk to him about bitcoin. Like, he's talking to me like, what I'm the subtext there is, like, because he won't shut up about it to me, you know, like, you please talk to him about it. And you know what? Like, that's awesome. I bet she enjoys the hell out of your wine that she doesn't get hungover from it. You know that, like. No. No headaches there. You know what I mean? You know what I mean, fellas?
- [112:03]
B
No.
- [112:03]
A
Okay, never mind. But really, dude, I love those stories.
- [112:05]
C
It was definitely a. It was definitely a please talk to him. And I was like sitting there like, if I had a girlfriend at that time, she would be saying the same thing. And that's why I didn't have a girlfriend at that time. So lucky he found a real one. But yeah, there's. It's like, there's so many people in bitcoin who just like, when you're doing the right thing, they want you to win. And this comes back to the quality of connections versus quantity that, like, that dichotomy we see on. On Twitter where it's hard to break through the noise when you're really going for quality. That's. I kind of bring up. Brought up stat coddler earlier because he's one of the few that I think really talks in that super high quality way but gets massive engagement.
- [112:55]
A
And.
- [112:58]
C
I. I brought it up because he called me a good writer today and I just wanted to brag, honestly.
- [113:04]
A
And he posts beautiful pictures with it. He posts beautiful pictures with it as well that I like, like, we. We need to normalize sharing beautiful things more. You see. You see a lot more of it on Moster, actually, you know, like, you see a lot more of it on Oster. But man, like, he's also at an unfair advantage because he's in Switzerland. And it's just like, it's not. It's not even fair. Like, I was just there for the. My only like my second time ever. And it's just like, this is what a first world country looks like. I thought I lived in one. This is what a real first world country is like. It's mind blowing. It really is. But I digress.
- [113:40]
C
Walker, your photos of this, the sky, and it's a great day, those fired me up. But I also imagine that you're like, well, do I take a picture of this flat land?
- [113:53]
A
Yeah, because I'm in the Midwest. Yeah. Like, you have to. You have to look up this guy. I get Rubbed. Rub it in, you mountain guy. Living it probably barely a mile high and thinking you're, you know, above the clouds. This is ridiculous. But no, it is true that this is why I post this guy. And because also people, it's a reminder for people to look up. And for anyone who doesn't know what Ben is talking about, I routinely, when it's not gray and disgusting in the Midwest, which it is right now and has been for a few days, which is why I haven't posted anything, need to do like some black and white noir style, you know, just to spice it up. But I just, I just walk outside and when I'm outside, I just take a picture of the sky and just post and remind people it's a beautiful day to be alive. Because it is every day that we are still on this. On this planet and not six feet under, being chewed on by worms and such and re ingested into the earth. Like, it's a beautiful day to be alive. But yeah, I've had like multiple people tell me they like that. And honestly, I was just trying to figure out, like, what's something I can consistently do on Nostr that's going to add positivity to people's feeds because there's so much like, negativity on X and algorithmically driven negativity. And this is one of the reasons I love Nostr. And so I was like, what can I do to actively contribute to this positive space, to this being like a space that is a pleasure to come into because you're met with positivity. And so that's like. It's my little. Like, I'm not a musician or something. There's a lot of cool musicians on those. I saw a guy recently, like, just like playing the shit out of a fiddle or violin. I'm not sure which one calls it. Depends on the kind of music you're playing, I guess. But I'm pretty sure it's just the same instrument.
- [115:28]
B
I'm.
- [115:28]
A
You know, I'm no expert here, but that's just fucking cool. Just playing a violin slash fiddle, getting zapped. Sats. Spreading positivity to the world. Like, you know, or you, Ben. It's like, yeah, just wine. Posting. Posting about grapes. Like, I love. By the way, this is just like a small thing. I. I love. I love that on your corks it says like skin to skin. It's like just like a nice little touch, you know. It's a nice little touch. It's the little things that matter. It's the little things that bring you just a little bit of joy. It's the little things that aren't pleb sloppy I guess is what I'm trying to get at there. Dick your thoughts on little things.
- [116:06]
B
I think I need to do more cigarette posting of cool places I'm smoking cigarettes.
- [116:14]
A
You do? Like I just thinking about you smoking cigarettes allows me to live vicariously a little bit because man, I, I, I'll just say like I loved cigarettes. Like really, I mean cigarettes are great, right? Like I, I also this is a slight sidebar, but I wonder how much healthier the United States would be. How much less morbidly obese. Like we wouldn't need Ozempic and Mounjaro and all these poisons, GLP1 whatever inhibitors or whatever the fuck they do. We wouldn't need those if people were just still ripping grits regularly. We just wouldn't, we wouldn't need them. Like look at the French. Like yeah, they, they may be a little bit fucked right now for other reasons, but at least they're still skinny, you know, at least they're still skinny. And it's like, which one is worse smoking cigarettes? Being obese, Like I'm going to go with being, being obese is probably worse than smoking cigarettes. There, I said it. I said it. So I support, I think you need more cigarette posting. I fully, I will use cigarette post after this. I will zap it. You have my word. You have my word.
- [117:27]
B
I, I just gotta say like, I mean there's something incredible about that. You, because you, you think of like the bar environment. Like a lot of I don't hang out at bars that much, but you know, a lot of people do. A lot of our society is around like gathering together is centered around alcohol and I think this is kind of dropped off a little bit. It's not inherently a bad thing, but you think about a bar, it's loud, there's oftentimes music, it's hard to actually connect with the people there. It kind of, it can create these weird dynamics. But you go outside and you smoke a cigarette and you have these awesome connections with people. You're not sitting there on your phone and you, the music isn't blaring, you can actually talk to somebody. I just think like, you know, cigarettes are positive more besides just like a healthier or alternative to. But I think that, you know, the tobacco is a way to, to really connect and have this meaningful experience, you know, with other people. There's something memorable about smoking a cigarette with somebody. This is why like I try and, you know, I go to bitcoin conferences and stuff. I try and smoke cigarettes with as many people as possible, and I like to offer them cigarettes. It's not because I'm, like, trying to. I'm a spokesman for. For Marlboro, but I think it creates this special experience. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I. I think, like, it's something that I'm really passionate about is trying to encourage the people that I. That I like as much as possible. Like, it's something I put a ton of effort into. I spent a lot of time talking with people in group chats and, you know, like, I. I take the time to appreciate and consume, you know, stuff that send people send me if they say, hey, I want you to read this or listen to this or, you know, whatever. Like, I will take the time to do it, and it's exhausting sometimes because I could send a lot of stuff, but, like, it's, you know, I'll take the time to try and genuinely give people feedback on it because, like, I want the people. Like, I think there's like, a responsibility of, like, okay, I think this idea is important. I want to promote this idea. And the way that it happens is like, you know, we. We have to tell a better story than the other guys and the competing ideas. And one of the ways that you do that is it's not viewing the other people in the ecosystem as competition, but viewing them as, in a lot of way, allies that you're trying. You're trying to build each other up. Because, like, this is the thing of, like, you know, why do we. Why am I very critical with my online and on Twitter is because, like, what I'm trying to do is I'm not trying to tear people down. I'm trying to reframe the conversation. And I think that's very different. It's like, this sucks. Not just because, like, I mean, you look at Predator, for example, who is he building up? What. What is he putting up? He. He's the. He's the mall cop just making everybody's life more difficult. And like, he has some bangers now and again, and he has. He has some self awareness. Like, you know, he'll. He'll admit where he's wrong. I don't think he's all bad, but he's not really telling a compelling story. He's just, like, highlighting a bunch of nonsense. And, like, maybe that's like a useful thing to some extent. I think he's a little bit over the top. And he gets, you know, office rocker sometimes. But like maybe he's a useful role in the larger ecosystem. But like, I think it's like the purpose of the criticism is to present something of value that's interesting and good. You present an alternative. And like I think where a lot of people kind of take a misstep is they don't present like a good alternative, they present another bad alternative. Like their criticism reframing is kind of leads into that. Like the, the last cycle it was Swan. Like Swan was. Isn't all bad. Like I'm not anti. An anti Swanitist. I think Corey's pretty retarded right now. Like I hope he gets his shit together. Poor guy, he's just embarrassing himself. But like, like I'm really rooting for Corey. I want Corey to get his shit together and, and tell a compelling story and like do something interesting other than just bitching about tether all day and like, you know, defending, you know, just like kind of a poor decision making process. But yeah, I don't know, I mean there. Somebody asked me in the chat, I listed off like a ton of names of people that I really like and I don't know, I guess the, the Twitter, Twitter world is different than listening to our podcast or like engaging with. But yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's in your own self interest to get out there and try and build up people that you like.
- [123:22]
A
So, so that's actually a, I, I think a very fundamental point this idea and with regard specifically to Predator, I think that Predator's heart is in the right place. And like I've started posting, you know, the, the free, the Norman Rockwell free speech painting, you know, the guy standing up at the assembly or whatever. Like, and you know, what I put together was I thought a pretty concise meme which is just that with the text I agree with Pledger, you know, and now anytime I agree with Pledor, I post that meme just because I think it is important. Again, when I see things that I like, I want to reward that with my attention and also my memes. Like that's, you know, I'm a simple man. Like I see something I like, I post a meme in response, maybe quote tweeting it and I can only quote, tweet it because he was only on Noster for like five minutes when he rage, quit Twitter and then went back to Twitter. That aside, I think that his heart is in the right place. But your point, I think more broadly is that if you're only ever against things. What are you for? Like, what are you for? It's easy to make the case of what you're against. That's really fucking easy because it's necessarily reactionary. And this is not just me. I'm not trying to rag on plajitors specifically. I'm talking broadly now. Now it's easy to just be against things. It's easy to just be the contrarian. Just take whatever somebody else says, flip it around, and you get to be the cool contrarian. Right? But like, that's not. And again, I'm not talking Pledator because I know you're going to listen to this because you get your 40 hours per week, I'm sure. I am not talking specifically about you. I'm talking broadly. If you think it applies to you, that is you internalizing that, that's okay too. That's what your 40 hours per week should do. You should internalize that 40 hours per week. But if you're only ever against things, if you're only ever contrarian, if you're only ever saying what you are anti, not what you're for, not what you're pro, then like, you don't actually have an opinion about something. You don't actually have, let's say, a position on something. You need to be for something.
- [125:36]
B
Something.
- [125:37]
A
And one could argue in Plutar's case, again, not specifically singling out Plutar, just using him as an illustrative example. I think plutter is for bitcoin, whatever that means to him, right? I think all of us are for bitcoin. We're also all for podcasting, right?
- [125:52]
B
I don't know.
- [125:53]
A
Pledges, thoughts on podcasting? I think Pledor should start a bitcoin podcast, actually. I think if pl started a bitcoin podcast, it would be first of all just very cathartic for him because then he doesn't just have to. He doesn't just have to like, text is such a clumsy medium. It's such a clumsy medium. It's multiple degrees of separation away from the thought actually getting into another person's brain when you speak. And granted, you can make the argument. Well, yeah, when I write, I can write things faster than I can speak them and other someone else can read them faster than they can hear them. But like there is something different when it is going directly from that podcaster's mouth into your ear holes. Something magical happens. And so what I would say is that if you're always anti everything, try to start a podcast, at least Try to start a podcast and. Because at least you can be pro podcasting. And once you stand for something, you may find that you stand for more things, you may find that you're behind more things, you're pro more things. Maybe you're not a contrarian as far as everything goes. And so, again, I think this is, you know, Dick, we've talked about this ad nauseam at this point. Ad nauseam is one of those words that podcasters love to say. Once you become a podcaster, you have to say ad nauseam a lot. It's part of kind of the. The right of becoming a podcaster. But we've talked about this ad nauseam. That's the idea that if you're wondering what you should do, you should start a podcast that's gonna like. The answers will be revealed to you through the medium of podcasting. This. This beautiful medium. Shout out to Adam Curry, the podfather. You know, we. We would not be here potting without him. Granted, he would say what we're doing right now is not podcasting because there's video involved. But that's. That's a different technicality. Right. The point is, if you're against everything, like, you're, like, I don't really care what you're against. I care what you're for. I don't care what you're running away from. I care what you're running towards toward. I care what draws you in, not what chases you away, because what draws you in, what you run toward, that is the thing that truly has value. What you're running away from, that's just noise. What you're running toward, that is the signal. But I can't hear that signal when all I. When all I'm getting is just the noise of the things you hate. I want to know what you love. And again, this is not just to you, Predator. But if you want to take it, Predator again, you're welcome on my podcast anytime. Maybe welcome on the Bugles, too. I don't want to speak for the Bugle. I don't want to speak for Ben. Ben, we haven't talked about your podcast at all. Also. We haven't talked about it all. I thought it was really nice. You did an episode with American Hodl. Hodl. He identifies as Hodl. I'll call him Hodl. But just so you know, I believe that just like science says that it's Hodl. But again, like, it's fine. You want to talk about your podcast at all? I thought it was pretty good.
- [128:40]
B
Good.
- [128:40]
A
It's a different format. Like, it's a different format. I liked it.
- [128:45]
B
Yeah.
- [128:46]
C
We're specifically not trying to not be a podcast.
- [128:49]
A
And the Tatum, the Tatum Turnup approach the t. The Tatum Turnup. It's not a podcast. Okay, you know what? I've, I've seen this movie before. It's a podcast. Just say it's a podcast. It's okay. Everything is podcast.
- [129:02]
C
It's a shotcast, it's a show and it's a podcast. I want to come out as anti podcast here. I don't think anyone should start a podcast. And I realize that, that, that.
- [129:16]
A
That'S.
- [129:17]
C
The plebslop Gary Vee advice. I listened to Gary Vee for years. He said everyone should have a podcast. I think you should have a journal because you're gonna say that you would never say out loud that you would not say as or as a recording journal every night. Most of you are retarded and we don't want to hear what you have to say. I am one of those people. I'm also retarded.
- [129:42]
A
But, but you have a podcast yet you have a podcast.
- [129:46]
C
Yeah, yeah. So I have a showcast. So SoQuest is, it's ended up like five, five to 10 minutes. We're trying to have fun with. It obviously has elements of a podcast where we interview someone, but also we're trying to like make fun of ourselves and the topics at hand. It's kind of a blend between a podcast and Dick Greaser's Twitter feed, I guess, but maybe a little bit less like on the nose and serious and, and starting. Starting with people. Yeah, I, I, in the beginning of October, I was October 3rd, I interviewed Jeff Booth and Bitcoin had just pumped like 10k that, that, like that last week and I asked him how he was enjoying October and then everything went downhill from there. So, so it's your fault.
- [130:38]
A
It's. It's not. You tried to let Danny Knowles take the heat for this sweet, sweet, bald, shiny headed Danny. You tried to let him, a fellow podcaster, you tried to let him take the heat when it's really your fault. How dare you. How dare you, sir.
- [130:51]
C
Look, the one thing I've learned about myself is that I am a top signal and I try to lean into that. So anyways, we, that's, that's just great thing to have on, on camera that I had asked Jeff Booth how he laughed, so he agreed. You know, so I got Jeff Booth on my side. But yeah, we're, we're trying to, we're Figuring stuff out. At this point, we're kind of still in amorphous zone. But the idea for SoQuest is we're really focused on, yeah, sure, the interesting story, the influencer that gets us clicks. It's awesome. You know, let's just have Hodl on because he's really good at vlogs. But the real focus of the show is that we, we want more businesses to do what I did in their own way. And I built my business to where like I just want to build a business that I enjoy doing that involves working with bitcoiners. Most businesses are not that. So it's introducing bitcoin friendly business, like maybe the CEO is a bitcoiner, but introducing these people to noster and to bitcoiners as customers and trying to get them set up in all the right ways and introduce bitcoiners to these businesses because I think that I'm blanking on the laws because there's so many laws of all these different smart people things. And so it's a thing where like the value of the network is how many nodes versus the value of the network is how many like actual important nodes matter. And I guess the comment there is like, it doesn't matter how many bitcoiners exist, it matters how many. Like, if we want bitcoin to be money, you need both sides. You need the people who are producing goods and you can buy them with bitcoin versus the people who are also willing to spend bitcoin. And the kind of the fundamental principle I've come back to in all this is it's not freedom money if you have to convert it back to slave tokens in order to spend it. And we want to really build the bitcoin economy and show these businesses that are building the best shit. Like, we don't want to interview, we don't want to feature people that aren't building good stuff. So we want to showcase these businesses as like, you're building the best shit, you're a bitcoiner. The opportunity to be the big, the leading brand within this category, within like the brand that people bitcoiners think about is so large. It's like early days for this. You can just be the first, like so salt of the earth, the first electrolyte company that adopts bitcoin. Like now every bitcoiner like wants those electrolytes because they're high quality as well. And the opportunity is there and there's tons of bitcoiners who want to have it. So, you know, it all comes. It's a circle. And it all comes back to that.
- [133:54]
A
I. I've got several comments. I'm going to try to. I'm going to try to say them in reverse chronological order, and I'm going to forget a couple of them. First comment, the bitcoin slave token thing. Grade A plebslop. Grade A plebslop. But it's outstanding. That is the cream of the slop, as they say. The second one, I forgot already. The third one, just given the name of the podcast. What is SoQuest? I just. Are you. Are you Mormon or is that. Is that too personal?
- [134:33]
C
Honestly, a little insulted that you would feel comfortable enough to ask that.
- [134:41]
A
It's a podcast. Okay.
- [134:43]
C
You're.
- [134:43]
A
Okay.
- [134:43]
C
It's a podcast.
- [134:46]
A
Is your podcast title a reference to the Mormon Soak would be my follow up question.
- [134:52]
C
No. Yes, because it's fun because it gets your brain going and we're trying to make fun of ourselves. But no. I don't know. I had a group chat called Soque Quest, and the idea was just like, we're in this together and we're gonna marinate in all these ideas. Oh, boy. And it's just a great group chat name. So.
- [135:15]
A
Okay. I wish I remembered the second one, but now I've just been too derailed by the talk of marinating and soaking. All right, can you.
- [135:24]
B
Can you explain? I know a lot about Mormonism, but I've never heard this term.
- [135:28]
A
You don't know the term, the Mormon Soak?
- [135:30]
B
No. Is that where they baptize the dead?
- [135:34]
A
No.
- [135:34]
B
What is it?
- [135:35]
A
But, Ben, you know what I'm talking about, right? Do I need to. I'm just gonna. Because I don't want to. I don't want to have to actively explain this in my own words. So I'm gonna. Okay, first of all, it's about. It's about sex, but not sex. You want to do it. You want to do it?
- [135:52]
C
Yeah. I don't need you to be clipped into any other.
- [135:55]
A
Yeah, they're gonna take this. The silent K's are gonna take this and run with it. So. Ben, it's better if you do it. You're. You're still agnostic. Agnostic, yes. It's not.
- [136:05]
C
It's not sex if you don't pump. So if you just go in and stay there, you're not. You're not disappointing God. I don't know why Mormon God and Christian God are different on this topic. And I noticed that you called Mormons Christians Walker earlier.
- [136:23]
A
And I don't Think I did. I don't know if I did that.
- [136:26]
C
Step into that.
- [136:27]
A
I don't know. When did I do that? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
- [136:32]
C
But not that I would touch this.
- [136:34]
A
I've seen the Book of Mormon, okay. Like, it's a fantastic, fantastic musical. It's outstanding. Anyone who hasn't seen the Book of Mormon written by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, should absolutely see it. It will clear up any confusion you have about Mormonism. Maybe just another thing that. What's the Scientologist version of the Mormon Soak? Now that. Now that Dick understands what the Mormon soak is, which is just soaking one's member without pumping. And sometimes they have. They have a friend who like, like will just jiggle the bed for them, like, because then it still doesn't count as long as you're not doing the action, apparently. I thought this was all like a. An elaborate joke. I really did. I was like, there. That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. There's no possible way that people actually. Apparently they do. Apparently that it's actually a real thing. It's mind blowing that it is, but it is. Apparently.
- [137:29]
C
Could you carry that over into Crypto? Like, it's not a pump and dump. If you don't. If you don't.
- [137:36]
A
If you don't buy the tokens. Pre mined. It's not a pump and dump. Maybe.
- [137:42]
C
Yeah. I mean, because realistically soaking is just without the pump and dump.
- [137:47]
A
Right.
- [137:48]
C
Anyways, Dick would appreciate your feedback on whatever question was asked. I forget.
- [137:54]
B
I mean, it's all. It's all interesting. I've been going down this rabbit hole of Scientology and Bitcoin. This is. The Scientologists are here, folks.
- [138:04]
A
They are. Do we need to speak about the person who's. You got to be really careful. I just want to say I'm more worried about the Scientologists than I am about the Silent Case. Like the sign. I don't know how many of the Silent Case are also Scientologists in disguise. I don't know. I don't want to make any accusations, but the Scientologists are a litigious bunch and they've got Tom Cruise in their side, who I think is a fantastic. I think he's the ultimate action star. But like, he's also a Scientologist. Like, there's a great documentary called Going Clear. If you haven't seen it, you really should, man. Scientology is.
- [138:42]
B
It is.
- [138:45]
A
It's nuts, man. Like, it is really, really nuts. Like, wow. And have you have you guys seen this doc? It's.
- [138:55]
B
Oh, yeah, of course.
- [138:56]
A
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
- [138:58]
B
I. I spent way too much time researching Scientology.
- [139:01]
A
It's mind blowing, is it not? Like it's. It just seems like a pretty elaborate blackmail scheme. Right? Like that's what we're dealing with ultimately.
- [139:12]
B
Well, a lot of these cults that have risen up, I don't know when they really started. I guess the 60s and 70s. I mean, it all coincided with MK Ultra and Martin Mark Goodwin put out this really interesting article. Really good article because it was like a summary of a lot of research. I was familiar with almost everything in the article before, and it was just like a really good aggregation. But the. It's a series he's working on. You can find it if you search through Unlimited Hangout. It might be kind of hard to find, but it's definitely on there. Going through the history of Scientology, the CIA and MK Ultra and it's a very interesting read. But yeah, I mean, these, like. I feel like part of the reason why I like researching these colds in researching, you know, the mind control techniques that they use is that they were. I feel like they were the testing grounds to be able to export this to the general population. A lot of the techniques that, you know, were experimented using, documented use on these people, you know, are being used in the broader society and the. In the, you know, groups like Scientology can't. Could be seen potentially as, you know, essentially grooming these people to go out in the world in positions of power and influence and essentially operate as Manchurian candidates of a. Like, maybe not literally, but very heavily influenced and controlled individuals. And so it's interesting to see the cross section between groups like that and the bitcoin ecosystem. It's very interesting. I mean, it's very interesting to.
- [141:19]
A
Just.
- [141:19]
B
Read about overlaps with like, Jeffrey Epstein and Bitcoin Core and while it's not like, okay, he was a significant funder trying to influence. There's overlaps between these power structures and people being involved in this ecosystem. It's just fascinating to see how the levers of power and influence work. And I feel like being generally aware of it, you can kind of get out of trouble or stay out of trouble a little bit.
- [141:57]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think we all know that Jeffrey Epstein was a proponent of core V30. That. That much is clear from my research at least. But no, in. In all seriousness, it is. It is wild and I think it's important to pay attention to these things because there's like. Like speaking with. Of Scientology specifically Like, and I won't name names, but there are people who rise into prominent positions as pseudo figureheads and new, you know, like, new golden boys or girls maybe, but boys of. Of, you know, Bitcoin plebs. Slop. Who are very prominent Scientologists, publicly scientific. So. And again, like, you can just. Why don't you just do your own research on this? Because I don't want to. This is a. I don't want to.
- [142:47]
C
Do my own research.
- [142:49]
B
You want it. This is a. Dangerous Scientologists or this is a.
- [142:55]
A
We'll communicate about the Scientologists offline. But I'm just saying, if you googled Bitcoin, Scientology real estate, you'd probably find them pretty quickly. Anyway, that's all I'll say about that.
- [143:11]
B
Just go to my Twitter page and. And search Scientology and you'll see my post and thoughts.
- [143:17]
A
Dude, it's such a fascinating rabbit hole, though. It really is. Like, because again, it just is. It's so patently absurd. Like, Elrond, like, he's L. Ron Hubbard, the guy who, like, created Scientology. He was just. He was a science fiction author, and he wrote about these, like. Like these ridiculous science fiction stories, then literally turn them into a religion. And, like, part of the religion is getting audited and, quote, going clear and confessing all of the bad things you've ever done in your life. Like, and they're recorded when you confess them. And then it's like, this is. This is a gross oversimplification. There's surely much more to it, right? And let's not even get into the thetans in your past lives. But, like, it's all just like an elaborate blackmail scheme, and it's kind of nuts, but there's a lot of really powerful people who are Scientologists, and it's just like, huh, huh. Okay, Okay.
- [144:11]
B
I started. I started reading Dianetics because Dick Whitman keeps on. Every time I post about Scientology, he keeps on telling me that I need to read Dianetics. And a little bit in. It's. It's very fascinating. I mean, a lot of. A lot of the, you know, language that's used is very similar to a lot of the bitcoin plebs law and a lot of, like, just general conspiracy theory type thing. Like, I think there's, you know, individuals that feel like there's something wrong with the general world or something. Society around them are very vulnerable to be preyed on. And you see this a lot with the shitcoins where people get wrapped into, like, they're. They're Kind of doing these, these similar strategies with zcash, you know, and, and bitcoin has reached this, this point of prominence where it almost feels like an, like a dominant incumbent like entity. And you see these, these people that have been kind of on the fringes and periphery are rejecting it as a result of that. And they, they kind of have their, their weird conspiracy theory plop, slop takes that are. That are similar to Dianetics. Like I, I was tagged in this like ridiculous thread with Mark Goodwin arguing with this guy. And you know, Mark asked this, this random guy that had like bitcoin in his profile description. The guy asked Mark, or, sorry, Mark asked the guy, does he think that bitcoin or Fiat is more Zionist? And the guy started going off about like how bitcoin is more Zionist. And I was like, this is such a weird dynamic that we're in where the conspiracy world of like, you got Katherine Austin Fitz who's concerned about. She's always hated bitcoin, but she's concerned about C. Sam she's using those guys as talking points to delegitimize bitcoin. Her solution in the world is going and spending cash on Fridays and using credit unions. So like that's her resistance strategy and just being a Luddite.
- [146:48]
A
Wait, I don't even know who this is. Who is this? Ben, do you know?
- [146:51]
B
This is.
- [146:53]
A
Dude, okay, Jesus, can you educate us please, Dick?
- [146:56]
B
Yeah, here, let me look up. She had like a role in government at some point. I think she worked for the Bush administration, but she's like big in like the anti surveillance world.
- [147:11]
A
The name is like vaguely familiar, but I, I don't know. It's, it's. It's not like. I can't say this is somebody that I'm like tracking actively.
- [147:21]
B
She, she's big in the, the boomer slob conspiracy theory world. Like. Oh yeah, she's like a big, big deal. Like anti. Like, you know, like. Yeah.
- [147:41]
A
I just, I just, I just looked her up on Wikipedia. I think I do know who this is. Okay.
- [147:45]
C
Can't trust that.
- [147:47]
A
Well, yeah, that's true. You mean Wokipedia? No, thank you. Catherine Austin Fitz, born Dec. 24, 1950, as an American investment banker and former public official who served as Managing Director of Dylan Reed Co. And during President George H.W. bush as United States Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Housing. She has widely written and commented on the subject of public spending spending and has alleged. Alleged, excuse me, several large scale instances of government fraud. Okay. That's what that's what Wikipedia gives me on the. On the top, top line. So, so what's. What's, what's the real deal then, Dick?
- [148:26]
B
She writes. She writes. She has, like, a publication called the Slurry Report. Well, what's the real deal? Oh, it's really nuanced and like, it. It's just these people are. Are spewing this. This nonsensical slop. They don't understand the technology. Like, they're going after Mark. I'm watching them go after Mark. They get. He gets it a lot where they call him a crypto bro. And they think. They think this technology is inherently bad because it's digital. And like, there's a lot of problems with stuff that. That bitcoin is being used for or could be used for. There's a lot of, like, really bad actors interacting with, like, you got groups like, you know, chain analysis and, you know, other ones. And, you know, a lot of the KYC mechanisms that are really, potentially accelerating or, or, you know, I was looking at your website. I like it. I like that you have like a buy with bitcoin, like, right?
- [149:34]
A
Yeah, it's cool. It's cool.
- [149:38]
B
But I don't know. I mean, it's just interesting. Like, there. There's a lot of fud to be busted. And what's funny about, you know, these people like Catherine Austin, Fitz and these, like, the. The thing that's exciting about bitcoin is it's actually a vehicle to do something, whereas a lot of these conspiracy theories, like, what is Alex's. Joan. Alex Jones's message to vote for a Republican and buy supplements? What is. Let's see. I don't know. There's all these guys that are.
- [150:18]
A
The, The. The. The guys that were conspiracy theorists back again when they were the. The counterculture, but they're not the counterculture anymore. And like, that. That's the thing. It's like you're, you know, your favorite hipster indie band going mainstream, and it's like, I just. I just like something that's mainstream now. It's like when you're just another mouthpiece for the incumbent regime. It's. It's just like it. It's. It's not cool anymore. The second you stop being able to speak truth to power, as lame as that sounds. But like, that. That. That is the essence of it, right? As soon as you stop being able to do that, you. You, like, you're. You're done.
- [150:59]
B
You're.
- [150:59]
A
You're absolutely done. And so, like, you know, like, Alex Jones Like. Like, what a. What a wild career that guy's had, right? And, like, would just, like, you look at those early videos of him just, like, getting up in people's faces and just calling them the out. And now it's like, so many people have just been basically, like, yeah, well, you know, they end up just playing the same games that they would give other people for, which is just being a mouthpiece for whoever's in charge because you like the guy, you know, and, like, whatever. More power, too. You know, you're getting. You're a little bit older now. You know, your TRT injections only get you so far, and it's like, you don't have that youthful vigor that you used to, so you just. You're a little too tired to be a counterculture proponent anymore. Like, it's okay. You're just mainstream now. Like, you look on Exit any given point, it's like, Alex Jones is like one of the main streams of their couple hundred thousand viewers at any given time live. And it's like, yeah, it's. It's like you're the new mainstream. And that's cool, too. Like, it's amazing that it's not just the CNNs and MSNBCs and, you know, just like the Rachel Maddows screeching at you anymore. Like, at least it's Alex Jones screeching at you. But, like, make no mistake, it's like, unless you're willing to call out the truth, you're not really any better. Like, just because you. Like, just because the guy that's in power happens to be a little bit better than the shit rag. You know, it's like the. It's like the south park skit that, like, oh, you know, like, we're a giant douche family here. We won't be voting for turd Sandwich. It's like, I don't know. It's just. It's. It's also ridiculous at a certain point, but I think. I think Mark Goodwin gets a lot of unfairly. A lot of times. I've. I've noticed this, like, quite frequently. I. I think the guy tries to do his best to tell the truth. He does. I can't accuse him of pleb slop because generally the plebs don't like what he has to say. Like, it's usually he's not. Not pushing these, like, bullish, you know, moon boy narratives. He's pushing very much like, hey, this is the thing I'm concerned about. And maybe, like, you should read it more about this and then people are like reading. I don't know about that. Like, you know, and granted I'm a podcast guy too, so like, you know, reading, scary. But I don't know, we, I think we need more people who are not afraid to say, like, hey, here's a super fucked up thing that might be happening. Like maybe it's worth taking off your, you know, orange colored glasses for a second and admitting that like shit may be a little bit fucked up. But also Mark is like a hardcore or like hardcore bitcoiner. Right. And so then you've got these like kind of like these Luddites as you called them, dick, who are coming after people like that who are just going to have that knee jerk gold bug reaction that anything that's digital is necessarily bad because it must be co opted because they haven't actually taken the time to look at this and say, oh wait, okay, like bitcoin can't be co opted in that way. Like it's just, it's just not possible. Like, but I don't know, at the end of the day, all the people that misunderstand bitcoin constantly give us an incredible counter signal and tell us how early we still are. The more gold bugs I see dunking on bitcoin, the more fucking tradfi or you know, just fucking retarded fiat economists I see, the more Steve hankies I see dunking on bitcoin, I'm just like, yes, inject that directly into my veins because that is just incredible counter signal. Like I want more of that. I want you to dance on bitcoin's grave because it's just going to rise from the ashes and burn your face off and then like wear your face as a small little fedora hat. Yeah, I don't know, I, I think bitcoin's at a stage now where, and I don't want to be complacent here, but like I believe that it's at a stage now where like these fucking naysayers just, there's nothing they can do. We know like if China banning bitcoin, however many times they did, and then banning mining, if that didn't wreck bitcoin, if like one of the most authoritarian governments in the world cracking down on it didn't actually hurt bitcoin and actually made bitcoin stronger, then like I'm just not too worried about like these fucking Luddites. You know what I mean? It's just Luddites up ultimately.
- [155:20]
B
Yeah, I'm not worried about them either. I just think it's interesting. I mean, I think. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if bitcoin can be co op. I just think it's. It's important for the people interacting with it not to just like, completely turn their brains off. And. Yes, you know, you get. Continue to be sucked into the matrix. Like, that's the. That's the future. Like, there's. I don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, government's gonna fall and they're gonna change, and, you know, power structures are gonna shift, and, you know, the. The question is, like, just how. How, like, crazy and tyrannical is the future gonna look? And, like, I think as long as individuals are willing to do things like Ben, you know, and be active participants and like, like, actually try and, you know, build. Build things that, you know, support individual freedom, might not look that different from how it has today, but hopefully with softer economic times and, you know, theoretically even could be better. Yeah. I don't know.
- [156:46]
A
Wait, wait, wait. Lest we forget, you claim to have a Peony Lane Wine plebslop pickup line. I actually don't know if it was plebslop. But you did. We said we'd bring it back to this. I think we need to bring it back now. Do you still have it? Is it still there, Dick?
- [157:02]
B
Yeah, I. I did a. I did a whole article on this, and I'm probably gonna, you know, expand on them as I think about them, but I did a bunch of plop slop pickup lines. Well, you know, one of my favorites in. In there is hey, girl, are you Penny Lane Wine? Because I can't stop drinking you in. Or wait, is it. No, it's like, the more I drink in, the better I feel. The more I drink you in, the better I feel. That's what it is.
- [157:32]
A
I'm just. I'm just hoping Tatum Turnup uses this line on Aubrey Strobel. And if Tatum happens to be listening this right now, I just like to say, like, shout out to this king for pulling the Bill Ackman, may I meet you line. And it seems to be working. It seems to be working. I'm just saying I'm rooting for Tatum. He's the true underdog story. He's the classic case of the podcaster doesn't want to admit he's a podcast or a lot like Ben. He's claiming it's a show. It's. But it's a podcast. Everything is podcast. And I. I just want to say, Tatum, if you're listening Right now. And if you're not, I'm gonna DM you after this and tell you to listen to this last little bit. I think we're all rooting for you right now. You know what I mean? Like, a win for Tatum is. Is a win for everyone in my book.
- [158:19]
C
And Tatum's getting ripped. That dude, he's not going to be an underdog very long. Also, the original. It's not a podcaster, so shout out. To shout out to him.
- [158:29]
A
He really. You know what my biggest problem with Tatum is? He doesn't release the awesome he films. I don't know what. Where he keeps. He's like, Disney keeps it in a vault somewhere and releases it for a giant markup. Tatum needs his own Tatum plus streaming service that he can overcharge for and. And actually open up this vault because, like, the people need it. Tatum. The people need it. We want to see it. We need the. The, you know, the Tatum turn up vibes to counteract all of the plebslop noise. I don't know. I think the. The. The market is primed for it. And so I, I think that's a. It's really a perfect note to end on is just a call to action for Tatum to say, you know what, Tatum, it's time. Open up the vault. You. You've shot your shot with, you know, with Aubrey. We. We've all been rooting for it for so long. It's amazing.
- [159:21]
C
You.
- [159:22]
A
You pulled the. May I meet you. It seems to work now. It's like, what do you have to lose? Release that podcast and don't be afraid to call it a podcast. Don't feel shame that you just made a podcast. It's another fucking bitcoin podcast. Just own it. That's okay. That's enough. And you are enough, Tatum. You're more than enough. And you're very tall, and you're a great forklift operator. I don't know if you guys have any. Any compliments you want to give to.
- [159:50]
C
I do have a question. Walker. Sorry to bring the topic off of the. The majesty that is Tatum, but I noticed you have. I'm not sure if that's an aerator or a pouring extender on your wine. I'm wondering if you notice a difference on, like, if you poured. If you poured two glass, open a cork, pour two glasses, one with that, one without. I wonder if you notice the difference. I'm curious.
- [160:19]
A
I. I do. And let me clarify this, that I'm not some, like, super wine connoisseur, but I sure do enjoy wine.
- [160:24]
C
Dude, everyone couches their wine knowledge. Do you notice a difference? Do you like it?
- [160:28]
A
Yes. Yes, I do. I notice a difference. I find that especially with your wine, if I aerate it a little bit or if I pour a glass and I let it just sit a little bit and be exposed to the air, I find that I enjoy it far, far more. I enjoy it either way, but I find with a little bit more air exposure, I enjoy it even more. And so that's why I actually specifically ordered this a couple days ago, because I was like, I know that I like to have Ben's wine a little bit more opened up to the.
- [160:59]
B
The air.
- [161:00]
A
I don't like waiting to drink Ben's wine, so why not get a little aerator for this thing and. And make the magic happen just in real time. And I'm. I'm quite pleased with it. Thank you, Jeff Bezos, for making this American dream of drinking Ben Justman's bitcoin wine as. As soon as possible. I want. As soon as I open that bottle, I want to be drinking it. And Jeff Bezos has made it possible. He's launching rocket ships into space. He's getting jacked. He's. He's. He's. He's dosing trt and he's making your wine more enjoyable. Is there anything this man can't do? He's putting a. A century clock, a millennium clock inside a mountain, and he's making Ben Justman's bitcoin wine, if it's possible, just a little bit better, at least easier to enjoy faster. I should say so. Yeah. I do not couching my. My own preferences. I like it when it's opened up a little bit more. That's me.
- [161:55]
B
Yeah.
- [161:55]
A
And.
- [161:56]
C
And my mind opens up faster because it doesn't have all the preservatives that it does can react to oxygen more that it does or sooner. So, yeah. Jeff Bezos is basically the Jack D. Lon Musk who doesn't have a million kids.
- [162:11]
A
I don't know.
- [162:13]
C
Alpha male on either side, man.
- [162:14]
A
Does Jeff Bezos have kid. He's got. He's got to have kids, right? Like. And he must have kids, right? Like with old Mackenzie Bezos.
- [162:23]
B
Right.
- [162:24]
A
That was his wife that she's got, like, half his money, and she donates.
- [162:29]
C
Three sons and a daughter.
- [162:31]
A
Okay, okay, well, so he's not doing too bad.
- [162:33]
C
From China. Daughters adopted from China.
- [162:36]
A
Well, okay, that's. I mean, you know, I'm not gonna fault the guy for that, but he's I mean, Elon's got. I think he's got him by like, I don't know, 10 kids or so at this point. It's like, it's. It's why he really takes the birthright thing seriously. It's like he's like, I'm doing it myself, you know, But I guess if you have that much money, it's like, I mean, you know, like, you may as well like many shots on goal for the future as possible. I guess you miss 100% of the children you don't make. As Wayne Gretzky said.
- [163:12]
B
Do you think Bezos's adopted daughter from China is a CCP honeypot like Gloria? Za.
- [163:22]
A
Wait, Ben, do you even. I just. I'm just curious. Ben, do you. When. When Dick just said that, does all of that sentence make sense to you? Yeah, it does. So you're aware of the narrative I've been following. Okay.
- [163:37]
C
I just don't feel like.
- [163:38]
A
So you are aware and thus your silence is, in fact, violence. Wow.
- [163:43]
C
Oh, absolutely. But also, if you can't be passive against a violent system, you have to speak with violence or you have to engage in a little violence. Like, I don't know. We talk about bitcoin as the peaceful resistance, but I'm talking to myself in the circles here. I don't think bitcoin's violence. I've. That was like the early pleb slop arguments that I got into was whether bitcoin was violence or not. I don't think it is.
- [164:11]
A
I'm at this stage right now where my son is like, he's going to be real big. Like, like I'm almost Tatum turn up tall already. Not quite. And I don't drive a forklift. So, like, I'm, you know, over two there. But I'm reason I'm a reasonably tall man. My. My son is going to probably have me by a few inches. I think. Like, he's going to in like the 6, 6 range, if I had to guess, judging by his like 99th plus percentile readings right now. And I'm like, that's great because, like, ideally I want you to live in this, you know, peaceful, you, you know, utopian, hyper, bitcoinized world. But. But if it ends up in sort of like the, you know, the Mad Max scenario, like, you're big enough to be a warlord son like you. You can. You can control a lot of water supply with. With a frame that large, you know, and so that's really what kind of just what I'm. It's like, I think that's what as men we really need to be striving for, for our, for our kids, especially our sons at this point is like, prepare them for both eventualities. Like maybe, maybe everything's all good and we're hyper bitcoinized and it's all like, kumbaya motherfucker. And maybe, maybe you, you know, things are going to get pretty dark. And like, they certainly are going to be dark. It's really just a question of like the time scale. Right. And so I think it's important to be prepared for both eventualities. And like, having large offspring I think is just like, that's just good policy. Ultimately. It's like you want to, you, you want to breed. You want to breed them big if you, you can. If you can. And, and just, you know, you just got to prepare him, right? Because you never know what's going to happen in this world.
- [165:58]
C
Walker, don't you live in a place where that tick that makes you allergic to red meat lives?
- [166:04]
A
No, dude, that's Texas. We don't have the Lone Star system.
- [166:07]
C
Texas.
- [166:08]
A
It's like pretty much just Texas. Okay, like, did you know who was I talking to about this the other day? The. So it's a Lone Star tick and the scientist who actually like confirmed this, like there was all these outbreaks. There's this giant, giant just like outbreak rash, whatever you want to call it, of people getting violently sick after, like eating red meat. And they're like, we don't know what it is. And this one university professor is like, I'm pretty sure, like, if I overlay these different maps, the only thing that overlays with this is this one particular Lone Star ticks territory. And it like overlays perfectly. Like, literally perfectly. And people are like, I don't know, I don't know about that. It seems kind of far fetched. And so he's like, all right, well, I'm just gonna go in, I'm gonna go into the. I'm gonna go in the countryside. I'm gonna get myself bit by one of these ticks and I'm gonna see if I get allergic to meat for life. And he did. And he was. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay, guess. But like, what a. Like taking one for the team, man. Like, that's a, that's a sacrifice. Being literally just being like, I'm pretty positive that if I go out and get bit by this tick, I'll never be able to eat red meat again. And then doing it and being like, Yep, I was right. Can't ever eat red meat again. Like, but I did it for science. Like, man, that's like. That's some hardcore talk. Like, taking one for the team. That is true sacrifice right there. I don't know if I could do it, but I'm not a scientist. I'm a podcaster, you know, so take that as you will, but it's. That shit's scary, man. That. That's legitimately. Like, I've had Lyme disease before from deer ticks, because I'm from Bumble Nor, Wisconsin. And like, you just, like, you just get it there and it is the worst. Like, you will. I. It's really bad. I lost a shitload. Like, I don't know, probably like £20. When. When I had it, it was like I was a teenager at that time. Got just like, had some like, weird visions. Felt like I was tripping. Watched every James Bond movie ever made though on Turner Classic Movies at the time. You young folks won't even know what Turner Classic Movies is. Tcm. But boy, it was great. Favorite James Bond, obviously. Sean Connery. I don't think that's even up for debate. Worst one, probably Timothy Dalton. But I digress. The point is fucking ticks suck. I don't know. I don't know why they exist, but they fucking suck. They are just the absolute worst. So don't get bit by a Lone Star tick or a deer ticket tick because it's going to make your life hell. Specifically the Lone Star.
- [168:56]
B
You said you used to have Lyme's disease. You reversed it.
- [168:59]
A
You know, there's this. There's this misnomer that Lyme disease is always chronic. Like, if you get it, you're stuck with it for life. This is not true. Like these, like these same sort of people, I think, think that if you get Covid once, you automatically like, have this like, long coveted thing. It's just not true. Like I. The people who get chronic Lyme disease, like, I know somebody, one of my buddies dads was a forester, like for the dnr. And so he was literally out in the woods, like, like literally every day in the deep woods. And he got, I don't know, got it like a dozen or, you know, couple dozen times. I got. Got it so many times and was like, then always had it kind of low level in his. It was like if he was ever tested for it, he'd always have it in his system. The average person, as long as you catch it quick enough. And I was actually misdiagnosed by some fucking retard doctor in my podunk town and told me I had something different. He's like, you just gotta wait it out. Wait it out for a few days. Shit got really bad and happened to have a doctor who lived in my street who wasn't a dumbass. And he was like, you obviously have Lyme disease. You should just take antibiotics and this will be fixed up in a couple of days. And that's what happens. If you take antibiotics and you catch it reasonably early, you're totally fine. Where you get into a problem is if you don't catch it early, if you have a retard doctor who tells you it's nothing to worry about and shake it off or it's some other thing and you go, like, weeks on end or months on end without being treated, you don't get antibiotics. You could be fucked. But it is literally, it is cleared up within a couple of days with a basic antibiotic regimen. Not everybody who gets it has chronic Lyme, if that answers your question. It does.
- [170:37]
B
Yeah. That's interesting.
- [170:39]
A
It sucks.
- [170:41]
B
I just don't know a lot about it. I knew a guy one time that talked about having chronic Lyme's disease, so that. That was kind of what informed me. Asking him a bunch of questions is kind of what it informed. That's interesting.
- [170:55]
A
It really does suck. And the. Okay, like, the Lone Star tick thing is one of those things where I'm like, this is just a little too convenient, right? Like, did Bill Gates and this tick have a talk? And they're like, you know what? You know, maybe you should just make these people, like, beyond meat a little bit. Their stock price is going to zero because nobody wants it. But what if they had to eat it? Because they'll just die if they eat red meat. I don't know. Some of it's just a little bit too convenient. Maybe it's the Scientologist too. I don't know. I don't know anymore, guys.
- [171:33]
B
I don't know.
- [171:34]
A
But what I do know is we've been on here, guys for almost three hours. This was a proper podcast. I'll say that. I've enjoyed this thoroughly, gentlemen. I really have. I'm glad we do this. I'm gonna keep doing this anytime my wife is either out of town or asleep, I think. And bitcoin is dumping. If bitcoin's ripping, I don't think it's appropriate to do these kind of shows. Like, that's not the vibe that. That's not the vibe that I want. Right. Then it becomes too much plebslop. Like, I want to do these. When people are. Are just. Are sad and depressed. I want to encourage them to drink peony lane wine because it's not slop if you're sloppy. I don't know, Ben. I'll. I'll come up with some better ones. Pe.
- [172:21]
C
No, you just keep going.
- [172:22]
A
Pe. Lane wine, more like.
- [172:24]
C
That's great.
- [172:25]
A
Pee on my lane wine. Nope. Okay, I'll outsource some of this to Tatum. He's the marketing guru here. But, guys, anything.
- [172:35]
C
He's killed it for me.
- [172:37]
A
Yeah. Is there. Is there anything else that you guys want to say before we close things out? This. This has been, you know, for people who think podcasting is easy. You try drinking delicious wine and talking to cool people for three hours straight. And I mean that. You should. You should try doing that. You should absolutely do that. You should Start a bitcoin podcast. Please. Like, I will come on your bitcoin podcast immediately. I will be happy to support you. Start a bitcoin podcast. Or start any podcast, honestly. Start a podcast about wine. If you want to start a podcast about the Mormon soak. Like. Like Ben has. There's nothing to do with wine. All to do with Mormon soaking. You know, start a podcast about what real journalism is like. Like Dick has. And start a podcast about what's behind the podcast. Like. Like Dick and Rod also have. Just start a podcast. You are the media now. Like, you can't let Alex Jones have all the fun. Give it a shot. You guys want to end with anything? Anything else that's tickling your fancy?
- [173:44]
B
Yeah, I want to shout out a couple people that I think are doing interesting things. My buddy Avi Burra just wrote his second book called July 18th. So it was this post on Twitter says, I wrote a surrealist, literary, and philosophical epic about the world bitcoin makes possible. I've yet to read it. It's on my list. I got to go read his first book. He said he's working on his third book in the installment. I think it's cool. I think he's a good storyteller. He's doing some cool stuff with his finding home. It's all series. And then my friend Noah Groomin is currently touring, playing. She's on Twitter, she's on Noster, but she's touring, doing like 14, 000 people Stadiums in Europe right now. That's pretty cool. Incredibly talented musician. One of the best in the world. I think the best in bitcoin. I Think she's the best musician in bitcoin as a singer. And she. She's also conducts a choir. Yeah, she's so talented. But yeah, check her out.
- [175:09]
A
Scar, right?
- [175:10]
B
Yeah, Scar dust.
- [175:12]
A
Yeah.
- [175:12]
B
And. And then, yeah, Ben. Ben's telling compelling stories. I didn't even know about your. Your show you're doing, so I'm gonna have to figure out how to get my Noster thing working and.
- [175:28]
A
What are you talking about? Who have I been tagging this whole time? What have you not.
- [175:36]
B
I'm on there. I'm on there. I'm just. I'm just like. I'm talking about the process of waiting five minutes for it to load on my typewriter. Just typical, typical Noster stuff. Not literally five minutes. I'm exaggerating, but.
- [175:51]
A
Yeah, you know. Well, you know, we were actually streaming to Zap Stream at one point here, and for some reason it dropped off. It may still have to do with the Cloudflare issue. I don't know. But all I do know is that while Noster, which I identify as a Noster sayer, not a Noster sayer, but that's just me. I like to pronounce things correctly, like hodl, not Hodl, unless he identifies as such, which is, again, I respect that. But while X was down this morning, I was still able to post on Noster about how X was down. And I think it's an important thing to point out that, like, X is the place that people would go to talk about other sites being down. Where is the place that you go to talk about X being down? Well, it's Noster. That's a little bit of a signal. Right, right there. But, Ben, where. What, what, what do you want to end with? People should check out. It's peony lanew.com, right? And if you do forward slash bitcoin, you can just pay in bitcoin right there. You ship mostly all over the U.S. you. You don't ship abroad. Right. Just because the laws and the state being a.
- [177:02]
C
Correct. I looked into shipping to Canada as I've been asked by a lot of Canadian bitcoiners and.
- [177:11]
B
I.
- [177:11]
C
The only way I shipped there was one time I shipped to Canada and it was because a dude had his best friend, like, ran an import company. So I. I had an alcohol lawyer look into it. For me, it's just. It's not going to happen. They don't want my wine.
- [177:26]
A
Why do we have alcohol? We don't need alcohol. Lawyers just make the laws better for sake. Jesus Christ. Is not prohibition For Christ's sake, let the alcohol flow. Let the cigarettes. Let the cigarettes burn. Jesus Christ. Get the state out of our business. Sorry. Continue.
- [177:41]
C
People think it's like, it's regressive and it's just like all these old laws. States like Utah get the, you know, the meme thought that everyone has. But starting I. I believe in the beginning of 2024, it might have been the beginning of 2025, Virginia changed its laws. So legally not allowed to ship to Virginia. And you know, it's like, yeah, the frustration is like, dude, why don't you ship to me? It's like, I would love to, dude. They don't want you to enjoy my wine. They want to protect their own.
- [178:13]
A
Talk to the government.
- [178:15]
C
Yeah, but the. The thing I'm most psyched about is Noster these days. Really Kind of just in thinking deep about it and a little bit projecting. I mean, it is relatively slow, but something beautiful about it is my primal has sucked all day to day. Nothing has loaded. But I just moved to Amethyst and things moved and I saw some cool new features that I hadn't used with Amethyst in a while. And to me thinking about Nostr these days, it's like Nostr is the owned media. Like it's. It's a combination of email and social media where you have the scaling of social media and you have the owned audience of email and you don't have to like have a cucked social media account to be able to survive. I saw that beer right after the war.
- [179:13]
A
It was just because I had a little. There was a little bit of sediments at the. The bottom because it's so natural. And I just needed the cool, refreshing taste of a fine pilsner beer. Miller Lite. 96 calories. Flipped it upside down. You know what it is? It's 69 Miller Lite. Please sponsor this podcast by sending me a pallet of your fine Pilsner beer. Please continue, Ben. It's not a conflict of interest. Is there a beer shell? They're not. It's not a conflict of interest. Just so you know, it's the. A beer. It's cool. It's cool. Continue, please.
- [179:47]
C
Well, I don't know. Anyways, it's just like the. The opportunity. If you're trying to like build something and you want to be an early adopter, you have to. You have to be on Noster, especially if you're in the bitcoin world. And I'm curious. Well, actually, I have one last thing, and I have a question. For Dick, my bottom indicator fired on all signals today. My sister sent me this long think, think girl tweet, basically saying why bitcoin was down and how it has so much further to go. And the line that stuck out to me early on was, in the last two weeks, the entire macro narrative of why bitcoin was worth $126,000 has completely disappeared. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here seeing a dysfunctional government, seeing $38 trillion debt, seeing how, like, the liquidity has just been sucked out of the system and they need to print, like, every reason for bitcoin to be worth $10 million is just firing so much harder. The one thing that gives me pause is that for the first time ever, my dad timed it right. He told me I should be taking some risk off right around the top, and I didn't listen. So we'll see where things land. But Dick. Anyways, my question. If you got a sponsorship from Marlboro, would you consider it selling out?
- [181:19]
B
Yeah, I would. I'm in it for the love of the game.
- [181:23]
A
What if they paid you in kind like they paid you in cigs? No fiat involved. Just a palad of sig shows up at your door and they're like, we just want you to keep smoking them, brother.
- [181:39]
B
As long as they were non kyc, I'd probably accept that. But I just.
- [181:43]
A
Like, they don't even check your ID at the door. They're like, we don't care, dude. We're Marlboro. Like, then.
- [181:53]
B
I mean, it would. It would. They would have to. They would have to, like, drop, like, pallets of them on my house with, like, helicopters for it to. That's my. That's my coffee. I smoke a lot of cigarettes. Like, it's not. We're not talking about a few cartons here, but. Yeah, I don't know. Could I. Could I do a. Could I do a sales pitch for. For Pony Lane?
- [182:19]
A
Yeah.
- [182:19]
B
How do you say it?
- [182:22]
A
Pee on me Lane.
- [182:24]
B
Peony Lane.
- [182:25]
A
Now it's Peony Lane. Sorry. It's not pee on me. It's. I've had too much. By the way, I just finished the bottle, which means, like, the timing has been perfect.
- [182:34]
C
It's the Miller Light that's. That's making you sloppy.
- [182:37]
A
It's true. The Peony Lane has me feeling an incredible sense of clarity. And, like, I'm a little bit more resistant to plebslope. Honestly, that's. I think that's the best part about it. It develops a natural resistance to plebslop forming Almost like a. A warm membrane around oneself that allows you to resist the. The noise of the pleb slop. But wait, Dick, what's your. What's your. Or did you mean in the future do a penalign sale Penalain sales pitch.
- [183:04]
B
What do you mean? Right now? Impromptu? Yeah.
- [183:06]
A
Oh, yeah. Do it.
- [183:08]
B
Folks, the holiday seasons are coming up. You're gonna have to bear through dealing with your family members that have stupid opinions on things. It's gonna be painful, but Pony Lane lion can help you bear through it. Not only that, it's a great present to give to your family members if you want to talk to them about bitcoin but not come off as just like a foaming at the mouth rabbit orange cell. Ben is currently selling a very cool looking bottle, black bottle with a little bitcoin logo that might. You get it. You get them a little bit tipsy on some wine, they're looking at the bottle. They have to keep on looking at the bitcoin signal symbol. It might open up the ability to have a conversation with them also. It's great to you. You can. You can mix. I gave a plebslop pickup line on the show tonight. You can use that plebslop pickup line on a girl and she can ask. She'll ask you, well, what is pony Lane? Why say well, I've got some at home. You want me to show you There it is a company ran on legacy. It is a individual who's telling a compelling story. And if you actually believe that bitcoin's money, if you've been stomping your feet up and down, you're shitting on Gloria. You know you're mad about Udi and the spammers prove. Show the world bitcoin is money. Buy some wine today.
- [185:03]
A
If you don't buy peony Lane wine, you are a scammer and a spammer. I think. I think.
- [185:10]
B
I don't know about that.
- [185:11]
A
I don't know. I don't know. This is just what I'm hearing. I'd like. Can you guys hear this? If I go. I can't hear it. I'm just hoping you can. It's an air horn. Can you hear this?
- [185:23]
B
No.
- [185:23]
A
No. This is really embarrassing that I just did that. Pretend that didn't happen. Cut pause. I appreciate you guys.
- [185:32]
B
I did mine.
- [185:34]
A
Here's works. Damn. Oh, it's because I had it muted. It's because I had it muted. Hold on. Wait. What if I do this? You hear that? No, still. Okay. You really put. You're really Putting me to shame here. This is just. This is just embarrassing at this point. We, you guys, we've now made it over three hours with this stream. What a treat. What an absolute treat. Thank you guys for being here. And yeah, you should go check out Ben's wine and spend some sats and like go check out MadX's art and spend some sats on that too. And like go check out other. There's all sorts of bitcoin merchants on noer that you can go and spend sats on because like somebody asked me once, it's like it was actually when I was in El Salvador. This is the last thing I'll say. Ask me what do you think a bitcoin maximalist is? And it was a from El Salvador nicknames Chimbera from lives in El Zante. And I said I think a bitcoin maximalist spend sats. And I, I like. I think that's it like and don't give me the where it's like, well never sell your bitcoin. It's like just buy it again. I know you have more fiat. You cuck like just buy. Just buy the bitcoin back immediately. Buy a little bit more back. Like look at that. You've gained bitcoin and you've got cool wine or cool whatever insert product is that a bitcoiner is selling. Go spend some sats. Use bitcoin as money. Put your money where your mouth is. Thank you for coming to this live stream. Dick bj appreciate you both very much. This has been a treat. Live stream now over and then we'll see if everything's uploaded. Thank you everybody for joining. I'm sorry that the Nostra one died out. We'll do it again sometime soon. Hopefully not because bitcoin will be ripping but if it keeps dumping, we're going to keep live streaming late at night with Peony Lane wine. Cheers and.