THE Bitcoin Podcast – Self-Custody, Nostr, & Building the Bitcoin Future | Alex McShane

Host: Walker America
Guest: Alex McShane
Release Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the philosophy and practicalities of self-custody in Bitcoin, the state and promise of the decentralized Nostr protocol, and examines what it means to build a future on a Bitcoin standard. Host Walker America and guest Alex McShane (longtime Bitcoin event organizer, builder, and entrepreneur) weave personal stories and sharp critiques into a rich conversation about the risks, tradeoffs, motivations, and ideals that animate both Bitcoin veterans and newcomers alike. Major topics include critical takes on “collaborative custody” hardware, the cultural and practical challenges around Nostr, reflections on building sustainable Bitcoin businesses, coping with bear markets, and the necessity of grounding Bitcoin advocacy in real-world community.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ethics and Realities of Bitcoin Custody

Main Topic: Self-custody, Bitkey, and tradeoffs ([02:06]–[10:46])

• Seed Phrases vs. Hardware Abstractions:
  Walker and Alex debate the rise of collaborative custody products (e.g., Bitkey) and the risks of abandoning true self-custody through clever marketing.

  • Alex criticizes misleading language in marketing custody tools that downplay tradeoffs:
    “They’re not self-custody, it’s collaborative custody. It’s a totally different thing.” ([03:54], Alex McShane)
    • Loss of privacy, reliance on companies and third parties, and risky encouragement to “ditch your seed.”
    • Technical breakdown of why “two keys on hot devices” is a problem, especially when one is stored on AWS and another on your phone—potentially making your stack less secure than leaving funds on Coinbase.

• Societal Readiness:
  Recognition that most people won’t ever fully self-custody, but strong encouragement to “push past the convenience tradeoff,” despite it being hard:
  “If you’re deterring people from even trying to self-custody... you’re not a bitcoiner at all.” ([06:04], Alex McShane)

2. Building Community and Events in Bitcoin

Behind the scenes: How Alex became a conference and event staple ([10:46]–[15:22])

• The story of inventing the “news desk” at Bitcoin Magazine conferences as a way to boost engagement and revenue, ultimately leading Alex to produce and program major Bitcoin events globally.
  • “It’s a very delicate job… you have to be really good at communication and patient with people, because they show up wanting to fight.” ([13:48], Alex)
  • Reflections on scaling events, working with personalities, and the shift from grass-roots to more corporate energies.

3. Nostr: Tech Promise vs. Real Adoption

Assessing Nostr today, its challenges, and potential ([16:43]–[26:27])

• Vibe Check:

  • Walker finds the vibes on Nostr good, appreciating authenticity and micro-communities.
  • Alex admits to disappointment in growth and product-market fit, noting that most on Nostr “are engineers... highly specialized, not good businessmen. They live on charity.” ([25:19], Alex)

• Charity vs. Business:
  Critique of the dependency on grants and NGO circles—*“throwing events for each other to have kind of developer parties to throw more events to get more grant”—*and concern that this will never result in sustainable or widely-used products ([25:49]).

• Patronage for Open Source:
  Walker compares the situation to Renaissance patronage, suggesting that funding non-commercial innovation can be worthwhile ([27:39]).

4. Product-Market Fit, Open Source, and Sustainability

([26:27]–[36:40])

• Many currently funded projects solve technical challenges for vanishingly small audiences:
  “Just because you can build something really, really, really cool doesn’t mean anybody actually gives a shit about using it.” ([23:37], Walker America)
• Debate over whether it’s “early days” and if foundational protocols must exist in open source to allow future business models to emerge.
• “Right now it’s just like maybe…not everything needs to have this mass appeal. Maybe these micro-apps make a lot more sense.” ([23:37], Walker)

5. Ecash & Real-World Use Cases

([36:40]–[41:50])

• Example of Ecash as an Unexpected Solution:
  Walker tells a vivid story of using offline ecash tokens to pay for wifi in Madeira when his phone lost internet—proving these "nerd tools" can be practical in the right context ([36:40]).
• Alex is bullish on Ecash and stables, especially for people in unstable financial systems globally.

6. Bitcoin’s Behavioral Economics: Earning, Holding, and Valuing

([41:50]–[54:47])

• Touchpoints and Teaching Moments:

  • The transformative nature of earning Bitcoin, not just buying it.
    • “The first time I got bitcoin for doing something…it just feels way better than buying it.” ([42:53], Walker)
  • Difficulty of living on a “Bitcoin standard” and why most still price risk and life in fiat.

• Denomination Matters:
  Alex advocates for pricing and risk analysis in bitcoin terms, not fiat, to avoid delusions of profit and focus on true accumulation.

7. Trading Versus Stacking Sats

([47:12]–[56:01])

• Both host and guest joke about their poor trading performance when denominated in Bitcoin, reinforcing the HODL ethos.
  • “You’re not a good trader. You’re not special. You’re not immune to [the market’s] psychological games.” ([54:27], Alex)
  • Emotional aspects of bear markets explored—how to remain committed when fiat price tanks.
  • “A better use of everyone’s time would be how can I get better cash inflows to buy this stuff, rather than trying to time it?” ([58:56], Alex)

8. Pure Treasury Companies vs. Real Businesses

([61:08]–[65:03])

• Skepticism toward “pure-play” Bitcoin treasury companies:
  • “Why wouldn't you invest that in your own company…isn’t that a conflict of interest?” ([61:47], Alex)
• Contrast with MicroStrategy, which maintains a real operating business; mere accumulation is not a moat.
• Cautionary tales about overleveraged moves in hype cycles—“I don’t know if I would invest in them again.” ([65:03], Alex)

9. The Changing Face of Bitcoin Conferences and Culture

([66:22]–[71:43])

• Observations on the “corporatization” of major Bitcoin events and the rise of a suit-and-tie crowd.
  • Value in smaller, more intentional or lifestyle-focused retreats: jiu-jitsu, yoga, sourcing food, practical workshops.
• The best part of conferences is “side events” and real community over “enterprise value.”

10. The State of Bitcoin Development Funding & Ocean Mining Drama

([72:15]–[78:00])

• Rage quit season:
  • Commenting on the exhaustion and pessimism in the community amid bearish price moves and developer controversies.
• Ocean Mining Team:
  Alex recounts failed due diligence with Ocean Mining’s founding team and bemoans a lack of business sense in grant-funded projects.
  • “It was just clear…that it was just a really poor business idea. The only reason they exist is because Jack gave them charity because it was an interesting idea. I could support the idea in theory, but they’ve lost their way.” ([76:25], Alex)
  • Critiques irrational, unhinged marketing and the contrast with true market viability.

11. Legal Double Standards: Samurai Devs, Epstein, & the Corrupt Fiat System

([78:00]–[81:19])

• Anger at the prosecution of open source wallet developers vs. indifference to established banks laundering money for high-profile criminals.
  • “You’ll just forgive a bank for laundering money for a sex trafficking, blackmailing… government asset, but then a couple of guys who write open source software, you slam them with money transmitter [charges].” ([79:14], Walker)

12. The Path Forward: Fixing the Money, Building a Parallel System

([81:19]–[89:01])

• Both agree that trying to fix society from inside is impossible; instead, energy should go into “draining the beast” and strengthening the parallel Bitcoin-powered system.

  • “It’s why it’s incumbent on each of us to move a little bit more time and a little bit more attention and a little bit more energy over to the parallel system every day.” ([81:48], Walker)

• Real, grassroots presence and personal behavior in non-Bitcoiner communities matter most:
  “The only way to get them there is by leading by example and your success. They will try on your ideas and beliefs to try to replicate that.” ([85:56], Alex)

• The real filter: not red vs. blue, but actions that are net positive or negative for Bitcoin at a given time.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you’re deterring people from even trying to self-custody, to me you’re not a bitcoiner at all. You’re in this for fiat dollars, you’re in this for short term gains.”
  ([06:04], Alex McShane)

• “The most powerful thing you can do is unilateral exit and unilateral control of your bitcoin. That’s self-custody.”
  ([09:56], Alex McShane)

• “Just because you can build something really, really, really cool doesn’t mean anybody actually like gives a shit about using it.”
  ([23:37], Walker America)

• “We’re inventing a lot of things that don’t solve any tangible problem that the market needs.”
  ([21:53], Alex McShane)

• “The truth is we’re a lot closer to like a Weimar Germany. Like the end is nigh. Everybody’s trading and gambling, you know, all day and night long to try to get ahead.”
  ([00:00], Alex McShane; referenced again at [48:49])

• “A better use of everyone’s time would be: how can I get better cash inflows to buy this stuff, rather than trying to time it?”
  ([58:56], Alex McShane)

• “You just don’t own anything. You have a debasing monopoly money from the government.”
  ([57:58], Alex McShane)

• “Everyone is not either good or bad. If you’re a bitcoiner, everyone’s actions are net positive, negative or neutral for bitcoin at any given time. It’s not forever.”
  ([87:02], Alex McShane)

• “You don’t need to get sucked into this red-blue political dichotomy wherever you happen to be in the world… remember there’s a third path and bitcoin represents that third path.”
  ([89:09], Walker America)

Important Timestamps

• [02:06] – The seed phrase, Bitkey, and the dangers of collaborative custody
• [10:46] – Alex’s journey to producing Bitcoin conferences and the “news desk” idea
• [16:43] – Reflections on Nostr and why its dev culture is both its strength and weakness
• [25:19] – Critique of grant-funded, business-weak projects in open source
• [36:40] – Real-life use of Ecash and importance of preparing for non-obvious needs
• [42:53] – The joy of earning bitcoin vs. buying it
• [47:12] – Why denominating in bitcoin matters for traders and risk-takers
• [54:47] – Fear and psychology of bear markets, DCA mindset, and stacking strategies
• [61:08] – Warnings about treasury-only companies
• [66:22] – The corporatization of Bitcoin conferences
• [76:25] – The Ocean Mining drama and the pitfalls of grant-based projects
• [79:14] – Legal double standards: Samurai devs vs. Epstein’s bankers
• [81:19] – Building the parallel system and leading by example
• [87:02] – Moving past tribal red-blue thinking; evaluating everyone by their actions for Bitcoin

Final Thoughts & Where to Find More

• Alex McShane and Walker America both stress optimism, engagement with real-world communities, and building a better system by shifting time and value into the Bitcoin ecosystem.
• For more, tune into the Roxum.tv stream and THE Bitcoin Podcast weekly.
• “Try to stay cheerful, stay optimistic and spend more time with bitcoiners whenever you can… if you can’t do that in meatspace, start a bitcoin podcast!” ([89:09], Walker America)

Listen for a blend of rigorous skepticism, battle-ready optimism, and the very real camaraderie that still sets Bitcoin apart.