← THE Bitcoin Podcast
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- [00:00]
Eric
As tragic as what happened to Kirk, I fucking venerate and honor and respect him, and he will go down in glory. As a man in the history of America, at a time when things were dark, who is courageous enough to stand up and speak truth to power?
- [00:15]
Walker
Charlie Kirk is like a white Martin Luther King, Jr. I mean, he literally is a martyr. He's an American hero.
- [00:21]
Guy Swan
This was a cultural assassination, which is a hell of a step. And the number of people supporting it is just quite incredible.
- [00:32]
Eric
To be clear, like, people that engage in this kind of violence are such fucking losers that they could never actualize any form of meaningful dialogue in any way to actually get attention in the same way that could have any substantial impact on the world. So this is their last thing that they do. It's like a child lashing out against a parent who says, go to your room. They engage in a hissy, in a meltdown.
- [00:59]
Walker
Any father who's worth his salt saw the videos of Kirk with his children and immediately realized that he was a great father. He was a great husband. He was a good man. You know, so I'm not willing to sit here and listen to that from people or both sides of this thing. No, this is a leftist ideology thing. These people want you dead. They want you erased. Like, get this through your head. You, as a straight white man in America are the only thing standing between them and total domination of the entire world. A global slave system. Okay? Period. That's that. That's why you're the group that they hate the most. And if they want you to stop speaking, you need to speak 10 times louder. It's just that simple. Fuck these people.
- [01:44]
Eric
This idea of bitcoin being the third way politically is really important because it's a disengagement through technology in the most radical way of nonviolence. And more and more people are going to have to find a harbor here, specifically because of what bitcoin offers and how it technologically disables violence in its most direct form.
- [02:09]
Walker
They're going to want to kill you, and they're going to want to take your shit. They're going to want your children to grow up without a father.
- [02:17]
Guy Swan
We're still gonna have to hold the line on this, like, in 10 years, no matter how bad it gets. We need to be having the conversation and saying the same thing. We are the middle path. We are the path without violence. We are the path where we just speak, we explain it to people, and we build the things that protect the people who want to keep going down this to Actually making things better. Because there are way too many people today who just want to destroy what they don't like. And they have no capacity to even try to build something good or do something.
- [02:44]
Walker
This is the time for bravery. It's the time for courage. It's the time for more speech. It's the time to self censor even less because it's too important. And it's, you know, it doesn't serve any of us to, you know, go with either side of extremist violent rhetoric. So I just, that's my sincere hope is that we all double down on Amer deeply American principles and we do what needs to be done while also keeping our conscience intact and doing the right thing.
- [03:13]
Eric
That intellectual cowardice is what defines them. They literally murdered a man over the fact that they couldn't actually stand up and debate him with merits. And it's truly terrifying because like this, like, this is where we're at now. Like, dialogue no longer is of service because these people aren't interested in dialogue. They're interested in shouting you down, calling you a racist, calling you a bigot.
- [03:37]
Walker
There is no both sides here. Those people have an ideology where they believe that if you say words they don't like, they're allowed to shoot you in the neck in front of your children. Your 3 year old can watch you bleed to death. That's what they believe. Look at it straight in the face. Don't. That's not the time for like, oh, hey, man, you know, everybody's got some points. Shut the fuck up. Look at it. Look at it for what it is. Watch the videos of him dying. You need to know. You need to know.
- [04:11]
Eric
What happened to Mr. Kirk was horrific and tragic. And it's, it's really sad to see that, that we've gotten to this place in the political discourse where people want to murder others simply because they have a difference of opinion. And even more disturbing is people cheering it on. You know, like as. As much as you might have differences of opinions and ideas, like the entirety of, you know, there's a reason that the First Amendment is the first one, and it's because it's only with the freedom of speech and the ability to exercise those opinions, knowing that you can be safe doing that is sort of the substrate of the entirety of our modern society. And so, yeah, I just think as. As a father as well, it's pretty horrific to see a little girl who's gonna have to grow up without her father now because some psychopath decided that they hated what he had to say enough to kill him.
- [05:04]
Walker
So, I mean, I think the point you raise about the reaction is the key point. You know, even before we knew the anything about the shooter, you know, people were saying, why did it happen? Was it this? Was it that? I mean, the left obviously doesn't want to own this, but they do. They own this because no matter what the shooter's political ideologies, motivations were, which it seems clear that he was a leftist, and this was a politically motivated assassination, an act of domestic terrorism. It's, you know, the. So many on the left, mainstream people, nurses and teachers and people you work with, were celebrating Kirk's murder and then laughing at it gleefully. And then those that weren't laughing at it were saying he brought it on himself for his words, for the things that he said. Many of them had false perceptions of who he was. They believed in a caricature of him that wasn't in any way, shape or form who he really was. They were saying things that he never said, misattributing quotes to him. The left has actually been in a race to devalue him posthumously as a racist, as a sexist, as a bigot. He's a moderate. Everybody knows that. He's a middle of the road conservative guy. Nick Fuentes said on his stream last night. He's part of the establishment. He is part of the establishment. He is a moderate Republican. There's no difference between him and your uncle who voted for Trump. So to celebrate his death is to celebrate the death of half the country effectively. And it's a implicit admission from the left that they want, you know, people who think and believe, like Charlie Kirk to die. And they think it's a good thing when people like Charlie Kirk die. And they believe that when right wingers do speech, it's violence, and that when the left wing does speech or does violence, it's speech. That's what they believe. And the reason that they've been saying that words are violence now for over a decade is so they can kill you with impunity for the things that you say. When Charlie Kirk got shot, it was like a direct attack on the First Amendment. It was like the First Amendment got shot. That's how visceral and brutal it was. I wasn't even a fan of Kirk's. I had never seen a single hour of his podcast. I had seen a scattering of clips online. I was tangentially aware of him, but I was not an avid listener watcher, wouldn't consider myself a fan. I didn't like him or dislike him. But when I saw him get shot in the middle of speaking, it filled me with a sense of injustice that I can only begin to describe. Because this was a man who, no matter what his opinions and beliefs were, if his politics differed from your opinions and beliefs, he very clearly was a uniquely American force, uniquely American character. He believed in Jesus. He believed in God. He believed in the First Amendment. He believed in our country. He believed in a more perfect union. He died in the act of free speech wearing a shirt that said freedom on it, that had blood from his neck. So to me, it's unequivocal that I'm not here to do whataboutism and both sides are bad or any of that bullshit. Charlie Kirk was an American hero and a patriot and a person who I think we need more of in this world. We need more people who are willing to put it on the line. I said on Noster right before I hopped on the stream. I'll just close on this. That, like, free speech is worth dying for. So Charlie Kirk died a meaningful and admirable death, engaged literally with a microphone in his hand, because the act of free speech is so important and so inextricably linked to freedom itself that it is in fact worth dying for. And I said, I post this even knowing that if I was ever killed for things I said, people would ironically, you know, the deranged and insane would dig it up and ironically mock me with it. And I say it anyway. Feel free to mock me. I knew the consequences when I said it. That's how important it is.
- [09:33]
Hodl
It's one of the fucked up things I've seen is that the people being like, well, look, he said that there would be casualties of gun violence. So I guess he got his comeuppance. And it's like, you really don't get it, do you? That's not him getting his comeuppance. It's actually like a complete understanding of actually the risks that he was taking in speaking up in this way and also the potential repercussions that could come with that from a deranged fringe of people. And it's, I don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's sad and it's kind of fucking mind blowing to see the response right now. There's also like, I mean, obviously there are some, some heartening responses, but I feel like on the whole it just leads like, I don't know, we just feel incredibly fucking divided right now.
- [10:19]
Walker
Eric, the point you made about you know, the. I think it was off camera, but like you just said, you know, that basically, like, leftists believe in the collective more than the, you know, nuclear family. And I've seen. I've seen takes online that were like, you know, people saying how horrible it was that people were celebrating his death. And then, you know, these, you know, deranged leftists saying that it's good that his children are going to grow up without a father because at least they won't have a father that believes that their daughter who's raped should carry her child, the rapist child, to terminate, you know, because he doesn't believe in abortion, because he's a Christian, you know, and it just. I couldn't, you know, there's not a more evil or despicable. As a young father, there's not a more evil or despicable sentiment to me that if, you know, basically what they're saying is, like, if you hold incorrect beliefs, if you hold the beliefs that we do not agree with, okay, we will erase you so that you are no longer able to protect and guide your children. And then we will do whatever we want with your children. And every young father that sees, I think the re. I think the people hardest most affected by this are young fathers, millennial age males who have children. I. I cried the last, like, two days, like, on and off, like, multiple times. Every time I saw a video of his kids, I just thought about myself and my own kids and, like, if I wasn't there to protect them and how evil and despicable it is, you know, to. To basically say that, like, these children are better off growing up without their father. Any father who's worth his salt saw the videos of Kirk with his children and immediately realized that he was a great father, he was a great husband, he was a good man. You know, so I'm not willing to sit here and listen to that from people or both sides. This thing. No, this is a leftist ideology thing. These people want you dead. They want you erased. Like, get this through your head. You, as a straight white man in America are the only thing standing between them and total domination of the entire world. A global slave system. Okay? Period. That's. That. That's why you're the group that they hate the most. And if they want you to stop speaking, you need to speak 10 times louder. It's just that simple. These people.
- [12:40]
Eric
I think they qualify the fact that you use the word evil. And I think a lot of people can be like, whoa, whoa, like, I, I don't know like, is that. And like to.
- [12:48]
Walker
You're evil.
- [12:49]
Eric
Yeah, it is. And, and it's evil because the banality of it and that when you ask people to actually self reflect on, like, you're celebrating this man who was murdered, who's a father who no longer can be there for his child, and even within that, it seems like they're incapable of, of self reflecting and actually going, whoa, okay, yeah, actually, maybe this isn't a direction we want to go. And the sad truth is, is that, like, it. This. It's very interesting that I, I have a hard time seeing how Turning Point USA does not become quite reactionary in this and like it. I have a strong feeling that what ends up happening is now they become much more. That the dialogue is going to push harder and stronger and be more evocative. And when responses come up to that evocation like this strikes me as it goes in a brown shirts direction where they're going to be like, we posse up now. When people come in and start agitating towards us, we don't start violence, but we end the violence. And like, now this is just going to beget a lot of dangerous problems. That really just kind of scares me for the future of our country because, like, it. It seems pretty clear that we are in a Weimar moment and that the government is actually incapable or even worse, is like, they're actually enabling these forms of violence and that. And that's when people start to realize, like, oh, we have to step outside of the system to protect ourselves because this, this purported system of government that's supposed to protect us won't.
- [14:25]
Guy Swan
Man, I'll tell you the. The biggest thing for me has just.
- [14:28]
Walker
Been.
- [14:31]
Guy Swan
Because I had a rough day, just like, hey, bud, give me, give me a few more minutes, kid. I'll be out. I know, I know. Like, that just. Yeah, like, his kids are basically the same age as mine.
- [14:52]
Eric
Yeah.
- [14:57]
Guy Swan
That'S been dark thinking about that and just fucking seeing it. But what gets me is that people that I know, like people I used to call friends, I. I went on, I made the mistake of going on Facebook for a little while, and they all had the caveat with this. Oh, violence is never the answer. But he had it coming. When you support hate and vitriol and then sharing these fucking memes that are the most banal idiot, like, how can you be so vapid as to think that when somebody has a quote that's a full two sentences and the quotation is around one fucking word, like, that's not a quote, you moron. That's not a quote that somebody hasn't has put in their interpretation as to what he said. And he quoted, they quoted evil or bad and then followed it by black people. And like all of this, like, I mean, I mean, do you not know the, the thing that gets me is the unbelievable intellectual cowardice.
- [16:14]
Eric
Yeah.
- [16:15]
Guy Swan
Like the inability to just wonder if maybe you're wrong about it. In fact, I'm considering going back up there and offering a thousand dollars to anybody who can find me a segment. Not a half a word out of context, not one sentence clipped from something where he's like kind of mad, but a segment in which he argues that black people shouldn't have rights, that Jewish people ruined all the banking in the country. And like, just, just give me like, prove your memes, prove the things that you're using to say that this guy. Because you're, you're not actually there to be against violence. Because it, the whole post just ends up being about like, why gun, we should have been doing gun control and why Charlie Kirk is a horrible person for not convincing everyone to do gun control and that he's the consequence of it. And never, never is there even the slightest intellectual integrity to actually argue with the point. To argue with the point. And it's because. It's because they're mentally pathetic. It's because they're absolutely weak. They cannot stand up against a real argument. They don't even know how to define the premise of what they believe. If you ask them what a woman is, they fall apart every time. Is this base to. Have you even thought about this as it gets.
- [17:36]
Eric
And I mean that intellectual cowardice is what defines them. They literally murdered a man over the fact that they couldn't actually stand up and debate him with merits. And it's truly terrifying because like this, like this is where we're at now. Like, dialogue no longer is of service because these people aren't interested in dialogue. They're interested in shouting you down, calling you a racist, calling you a bigot. And the most fascinating thing in all of this is that the, the absolute hypocrisy that goes into that. And, and again the banality of that, like there's not enough awareness that they have to stop and self reflect enough to go, whoa, hang on. May, maybe we can have a sincere intellectual debate. Maybe, maybe we can just agree to disagree. And, but like it, it seems that that's unavailable now. And it's, it's also scary with us all being public figures that talk about things that could be construed as right wing leaning. In addition to the fact of that, like, you know, we, we. We are actually public figures sort of in this same area. Definitely not nearly as prominent or popular. But, like, it is scary to consider that there are people out there who probably hate us for the dialogues that we have with each other.
- [18:52]
Walker
By the way, not to make it explicitly about us, but, like, I want to caution. I want to caution bitcoiners if you're siding with this leftist bullshit right now, I want you to think about very seriously. I want you to think about what I'm about to say. I want you to think about a world in which bitcoin is at $10 million a coin. These people are going to hate you. These people that you know, friends, family, neighbors, who you're making peace and compromise with, who you're complacent in your relationships with. They're going to hate you. They're going to want to kill you and. And they are going to want to take your shit. They are going to want your children to grow up without a father. So think about that. I'm not telling you to, like, they're.
- [19:34]
Guy Swan
Going to be happy if they get away.
- [19:36]
Walker
Like, I'm not telling you they're going.
- [19:37]
Guy Swan
To be happy about it.
- [19:39]
Walker
Yeah, I'm not telling you to destroy relationships, but I'm saying to be very critical and keep an eye on who you have around you and how they respond to things like this. It tells you a lot about who they are.
- [19:50]
Hodl
I made as well, that was a terrible mistake to make because I just. I saw people that, like, I've. I've known since, like, I was a child that, like. And I haven't been on Facebook. Let me preface this in like, maybe five years. Just haven't just kind of stopped that.
- [20:05]
Guy Swan
Right.
- [20:05]
Hodl
It was getting a little.
- [20:06]
Guy Swan
Yeah, I'm about.
- [20:09]
Hodl
Occasionally I'll check my wife's like, it's so and so's birthday. And I'm like, I forgot. Is she right? And then I'll go on there, like, it's basically just a birthday app now. But I went on there and I just, I saw some stuff where I was just like, man, you. Like a number of people, you realize just people do not actually think deeply in any meaningful capacity. And truly. And the weird thing is that I saw some people talk about like, oh, if you're. If you're mourning Charlie Kirk or if you are posting, you know, rest in peace messages, you're just a sheep. I saw somebody say as, and I was just like, the irony of course, is that you, sir, are the sheep. Like you, you are, you are the one who is in fact behaving like a sheep. You are literally just believing everything you are told without actually having an ounce of real evidence to support it. You clearly haven't watched anything that the guy's ever said. Like, you don't have to agree with all of his policy positions or anything like that, but like, you know, to, to basically be chastising people for mourning the death of somebody like this who was shot while engaging in open debate on a college campus, which, like, if that's not the American ideal of free speech, I don't know what is. Like open debate in a college campus. Right? That's what it should be. To be shot and killed, to be assassinated in that setting. If you're chastising somebody for mourning that person's death. How can you possibly think you're on the right side of history in this.
- [21:33]
Guy Swan
I don't know, delusion, man.
- [21:36]
Eric
I mean, like this keeps bringing us back to the point of that. Like, like this is what Ardent brought up in the, in Eichmann in Jerusalem about the banality of evil. Like the, the question has nothing to do with them. Like they're literally vacant and unavailable to think about it, which is definitive of how they are. So the question is, what do we do in response to it? And the real important thing is we don't callow away from it. It's important to continue to speak freely and openly. It's important to continue to push the same points that Charlie was pushing forward because they're really important. And we can also see the very real impact that he had. Like he, he, he probably is single handedly responsible for helping push the youth back in a direction towards conservatism being something that actually exists on college campuses. Because he was willing to be courageous in his approach and in his faith and saying, I'm going to go try to spread, you know, the word of Jesus and other ideas that I think are really important for young people to have. And if you watch clips of them, even when he encounters people that are angry or hateful towards him, he usually tries to bring it back to a pretty compassionate place. And from all the clips I've seen, like it doesn't. There seems to be a great degree of modernism that like, I'm just really afraid that people are going to shy away from that. And I just really want to say that like we, we have a responsibility to continue these conversations and we have a responsibility to make sure that if you do have people that you would call friends that are celebrating. This is, it's to really full stop and like ask them to be like are, are you serious? Are, are you actually serious? And that you're celebrating the murder of somebody because he was trying to have open dialogue with other people because you don't like him. Because like I really want to get down to the baseline with you because like if that's true and that's who you are, you really probably should take some time to self reflect because I, I want to know if anybody on the left was assassinated. If you saw people on the right celebrating it, like are, are, are. How are you going to feel about that? Maybe that's a bad example. But I, I don't know. This is all.
- [23:43]
Walker
There's been some, there's been some what about ISM lately on both sides, you know, and it's like, I want you to run this thought experiment for a second. Think about if Cenk Younger was assassinated. Cenk Younger is the left wing equivalent of Charlie Kirk. Okay. I mean literally I would actually.
- [24:00]
Guy Swan
What's Chen's. Because I was actually thinking the same thing. As far as like an analogy, is Chen's following as big as Charlie Kirk? Because I think it was Cenk in mentality is that he's actually willing to speak to people on the right and literally a level of popularity similar to AOC.
- [24:17]
Walker
So Chenk's influence, I would say 10 years ago is about the same as Charlie Kirk's. I don't know if his influence is quite as high as it used to be. But just, just consider for a fact that if he was killed by some crazy person, how the right wing would respond. You know how they would respond. The vast majority of people, 90 plus percent of good, normal, decent people would think it was horrible. They would think it says something horrible about the state of the country and they would want to have a conversation about it. There would be 10 just to be straight up. There would be 10% of racist who say something like good a brown guy. Got it. Fuck him, he doesn't deserve to be. He's not a real American anyway, shit like that. And then good, normal decent people would shout them down and say what the fuck is wrong with you, this man died. Blah blah blah. That would be the actual reaction. It would not be this sickening, evil, godless reaction that's happening on the left wing. And there is no both sides here. Those people have an ideology where they believe that, that if you say words they don't like, they're Allowed to shoot you in the neck in front of your children. Your 3 year old can watch you bleed to death. That's what they believe. Look at it straight in the face. Don't. That's not the time for like, oh, hey man, you know, everybody's got some points. Shut the fuck up. Look at it. Look at it for what it is. Watch the videos of him dying. You need to know. You need to know.
- [25:29]
Guy Swan
There was a survey done that said 55%, 55% of those on the left felt it was reasonably justified to murder Trump or Elon Musk. 55%.
- [25:47]
Eric
I have to admit I knew somebody who, when I, when I brought this up with them, they like, their immediate response is like, well, like, why wasn't it Trump? And I was just like, the fact.
- [25:59]
Hodl
That that's what you jump to, like.
- [26:01]
Eric
Yeah, I was just like, I was like, I, yeah. I don't think we can downplay disgusted.
- [26:08]
Guy Swan
I don't think we can downplay the media here either.
- [26:11]
Eric
No.
- [26:11]
Walker
Like, no, the media is complicit 100.
- [26:15]
Guy Swan
They like, I think this is their dying breath because their, their entire format is dying and they need rage, they need people afraid, they need people panicking and watching the news because they are losing viewership. And I think that's a really important, something that's really important to remember in the age of like social media, outrage, algorithms and a dying media that wants to stay relevant is that there are so many people who would profit the more. The right or anybody who is not the left, anybody who sees the left as the insanity that it has genuinely become. Because you don't have to be on the right. In fact, there's million centrists and modernists and libertarians and anarchists and every other damn thing under the sun who were like, what the fuck are those people doing over there? And that looking at that. To not play into the bait, like violence is how they thrive. They want this to become violent because that's the only. Because they can't talk, they can't defend their stance. So if we are talking, that's why they're so damn mad, is because they are. They have an indefensible viewpoint. One that they hold with this level of belligerence and like self entitled arrogance that their opinion, they're so uncomfortable with dealing with the mental gymnastics of trying to hold their belief together. When you ask basic questions that they will literally sacrifice, they literally value holding on to their vapid ass opinion more than someone else's life. Like that is how little they care about other people. And it's no coincidence that every single, every single thing about their ideology is about me. It's about me, me, me. Who am I? You know what, what is my identity? Is all these a bunch of arbitrary characteristics? I'm a white person, I'm a black person, I'm a, I'm.
- [28:15]
Hodl
I.
- [28:15]
Guy Swan
This is where I stick my dick. And that's what identifies who I am as a person. Like, it's just, it's all about like extreme focus. Like whatever. This is not, it's not even a baby. I'm just going to kill it. And like, I don't even have, I never even had super strong opinions about a lot of these things. But all I can think is that I know that opinion has to be wrong because I see the people who hold it and how they actually react to things in the world. I think who, who thinks that that's a set of values that that's even ever going to be aligned with life or harmony or peace in any long term timeframe. How are they deluded into thinking that this is any sort of a positive? They're angry and hateful. You can't have basic conversations with them. And it's wild how many people, like intelligent, otherwise nice people have like, I've lost family members that cannot have a sensible conversation. And I do everything to build bridges, to try to get through them, through to them. But I just, it's just, it's incredible how bad it's gotten and it's being. There are so many people profiting from it and there are so many people in institutions that would love it if it keeps going and would love it and would make an absolute fortune if it got worse. And I think that's what is important, that we don't do that. We don't react in the way that keeps this system profitable. Like make them irrelevant. Make them irrelevant. Don't give them the fuel.
- [29:56]
Eric
Case.
- [29:56]
Hodl
And you were going to say something.
- [29:58]
Eric
I was just thinking about it. It's really interesting that like part of their ideological worldview is that like language itself has these features of violence. And like that that's specifically because through debate you can deconstruct their worldview which like kills them. Right. Like it is literally violent towards their fragile ideas. And so when you can verbally. Yeah, so when you can verbally obliterate that, it makes sense that they go, oh well, that's a form of violence. Violence towards me. So in response, like I can actually implement physical violence because these things are the same. And there, there's There was a great clip of Kirk talking with someone where she was like, oh, well, you're using violent words. And he was like, no, like, words can't be violent. And she was like, well, it makes me feel. He was like, I don't care at all about your feeling. Your feelings have nothing to do with what we're talking about. And that's my entire point. And then they're like, well, well, that. That makes me really angry. And he was like, yeah, again, like, that's all about you. Nothing to do with baby. We.
- [31:05]
Walker
We. All. This.
- [31:07]
Eric
This is where we're at, is that we. There are people that are huge babies that when you say things that offend them enough, they want to actually get violent about it. They believe they should and can get violent about it. And this is. This is a truly scary place to be in because now this whole collective of people seem to be agreeing with each other about using that capacity to inflict harm on others, that they don't believe it, that. That don't have the same belief systems as them. And like, this, this very quickly gets us to a very dangerous place. And also, like, I don't really think the left understands how much they're, like, poking a bear that, like, they, they cannot stand up to. Like, we. We haven't. They like to call Trump a fascist, but, like, this country has not seen anything remotely fascist yet. And they may very well get to see it now because of the way that it's becoming clear that the government and also the Republican Party is not going to protect people on the right. And this really opens up a space for a real fascist movement to rise up and go, yeah, you should collectivize with us, because when people threaten you, we're going to go to their house and burn it the fuck down. When we go out and talk, bad shit's going to happen to people that threaten us.
- [32:17]
Walker
Let me say this about what Eric just said, too, is that the left and the right have fundamentally completely different views on violence. The left believes that violence is like a volume knob that they can turn up and down. They can have it at a low level where it's, you know, street beatings and, I mean, you can't wear a MAGA hat in any American city without getting punched in the face. That's a low level of political violence. Every day in your life, that serves the left. The anarcho tyranny of your life, that also serves the left. And you know that basically, like, the police are powerless to help you, but they're not powerless to harm you, right? That like you're, if you're living in a blue city, you're going to be constant like carjackings, muggings, theft, robbery, kidnapping, burglar, everything like. And you have to deal with that shit. Chronic homelessness, the problems that those people cause. That's a form of violence that you have to deal with every day in your life. And they believe that violence is like a volume knob that they can turn all the way up. They keep it at a low level when it serves them and when they need it, they turn it up to political assassinations, bombings, et cetera, in order to serve their purposes. It's on purpose, okay? And the radicals on the streets, the antifa members, the lone wolves, they work hand in glove with the moderates. The moderates create this environment. They create this, you know, the ivory tower liberals, they create this sort of like justification for the morality of murder in a political sense. And then they're happy when one of their foot soldiers on the ground goes and does it. And because they're cowards, they don't have to subject themselves to any of the risk and they have a diffusion of responsibility there. Okay? That's the way the left views violence. The way the right views violence is the way Eric is describing, which is it's a switch and it's either off or it's kill everyone. Those are the only two positions on the right wing switch. Okay? So when you fuck with them consistently, you have no idea the danger that you're in that you're fucking with. It is not a smart thing to do. None of us want either of these outcomes. This is what it is to be a sane, good, normal, decent person in American life today. I do not want to see right wing retributed political violence on a mass scale. I also do not want to live through political assassinations and bombings from the left. Unfortunately, we may be hurtling into a world in which both scenarios are on the table. Somebody said to me the other day about Fuentes, I tuned into Fuentes live stream the other day. I've never watched it in my life, but it felt important to watch it last night because I realized that the right wing was going to be pushed further right and they were going to be pushed. Charlie Kirk's audience was going to be pushed into the hands of Nick Fuentes. So I tuned in and I listened to everything he had to say, which surprisingly was very non violent. It was, I was, I was surprised and actually I, you know, it was pleasantly surprising that he was Basically calling for no violence. And he was saying, you know, we shouldn't do anything. So that was nice. But I tuned in and I was thinking, the energy here that's happening here is going to be, you know, potentially what shapes our world over the next 20 years. And I was talking to a friend about it, and he said, you know what Fuentes is. And I go, no, what? And he goes, it's Bitcoin for people who don't understand Bitcoin people, they have an enemy, the Jews. We have an enemy, Central banks, right? Fiat currency. The Jews have Israel. Right? Like, and you can, you can now easily, in a Gerardian sense, scapegoat your problems without understanding economics. And they have a form of economic populism on the right, which they are actually a form of national socialists in the sense that, like, Fuentes and others are saying things like, you know, I'm okay with giving away health care to these people. You know, I want the country back. I want the country to be a white Christian nationalist country, et cetera. Right? And he's, he's picking up steam, especially after the murder and assassination of Charlie Kirk, because unfortunately, the problem is, I'm watching this all unfold in real time that young conservatives are looking at this and they're saying, the debate's over. There's nothing to talk about with these people anymore. People are demons, these people are ghouls. These people will kill us. Right? And I do, I'm hopeful that, you know, a thousand Charlie Kirks are going to rise up in his place and do even more campus debate, because that is what needs to happen, right? Rather than retributed political violence, we should. I agree with what Eric said earlier. Like, this is the time for bravery, it's the time for courage, it's the time for more speech, it's the time to self censor even less because it's too important. And it's, you know, it doesn't serve any of us to, you know, go with either side of extremist violent rhetoric. So I just, that's my sincere hope, is that we all double down on deeply American principles and we do what needs to be done while also keeping our conscience intact and doing the right things.
- [37:00]
Guy Swan
And I would also, Gerard.
- [37:02]
Hodl
And I think that's actually super important for folks who don't know Rene Girard and like, what is the history of things hidden since the start of the.
- [37:10]
Walker
World or whatever, the foundation of the world.
- [37:12]
Hodl
Foundation, world. Thank you. But the primary thesis there being that this scapegoat mechanism exists throughout all of history. And I mean, it's, I mean, it's a very long read for folks I'm very much summarizing at a high level. But this, this is actually that exact thesis playing out. I had, I had a thesis when Trump's assassination failed, that this was actually the creation of a living martyr, which was kind of like, along with Gerard's themes, like the creation of a living martyr would actually kind of change that paradigm a little bit. But somehow this feels more, this actually feels more impactful than the Trump assassination attempt. And I know it shouldn't because Trump was like, you know, he's former and current President of the United States. That should be more impactful. But for some reason this feels more meaningful. And like this was, there was, there was a change here. This was a turning point. This was a, you know, the tipping point, whatever you want to call it. I don't know if that's just me, but it somehow crazily feels like this matters more than the attempted assassination of President Trump. And that's hard to grapple with because there's something that changed. We all feel it, right? Everyone feels it. Something just changed. And I don't think we can ever, I don't think we can go back. Well, I think, I don't know.
- [38:34]
Guy Swan
I, I would say that the reason, because I kind of agree with you and it's not just because, you know, Trump didn't get assassinated and Kirk did. And you know, actually on the point that Hodl made for not going down either of those two paths, which worry me a hell of a lot too, is like, I don't know that much about Charlie, Charlie Kirk. I've probably watched as much video in the last two days of Charlie Kirk as I've watched in the last year. And, but for what I do know and have watched of him, I feel like I, it would be obvious as to that that would be his response too. Is it like, don't let this become violence. Like, I have literally been here. Like, this is the whole, that's his whole mission was to go there so that things didn't become violent. That's the point of debate because as soon as you're not talking, violence is the only thing left. But one of the things that you know, actually hold. You also mentioned the whole, like, this is not, you know, one, this is not both sides or whatever. This is one sided. You know, I had this thought, it was like, how, how do, how is it the people that I know, like literally cannot see the vast chasm between the Two situations like the. The two sides. Like, even as someone who, again, I do not consider myself on the right and I find myself in inevitably impossible to not associate with them because I know that I can't say anything without, like, simple opinions or simple differences of opinion, that I can viciously argue with people on the right about, about war, about everything going on in Israel and Gaza and Iran. I can argue with Republicans and the right all day. I can't. You can't argue with most of the people on the left. You cannot have a conversation with them. And so I, I find it inevitable that it's the only space that I can. I can. I can actually be with someone that I don't agree with and we'd literally not be at each other's throats. But I had this thought that, you know, if this was flipped the other way around, if there had been two attempted assassinations that failed on Biden and then Chink or AOC or some like, huge name for the left that was very close and known by a lot of people was literally assassinated while talking to some, like, while trying to build bridges to people on the right, and it was somebody with a MAGA hat or whatever. We would be counting the billions of dollars in damage done over the next three days in this country. There would be riots everywhere. We would be going through a body count of the number of people who had been indiscriminately killed in the streets, who wore MAGA hats or just happened to be the wrong skin color. And anybody who's literally still got a couple of brain cells worth of Honesty knows that's 100% true. That's 100% true because they just turned that knob up, that knob that they always have running. There's always this, like, simple, like, violence is always there. It's just about how much they're doing at any one point in time.
- [42:02]
Eric
It's interesting because this makes me think a lot about the. Felt like the core philosophical principles are really at play here and that, like, the left fundamentally does not believe in the right to private property and that, like, it's only. And like, that makes violence. Okay, because, like, if you can't own private property, you can destroy people's stuff. Like, that allows for you this play on the knob. Whereas when you have the black and white like you, you can own property. And like that. That is like a core principle of what we have. Because, like, I was just thinking it is pretty fascinating that, like, yeah, if someone on the left or was left representative murdered very similar to George Floyd There absolutely would be massive protests going on. Whereas I don't, I don't think I've heard of protests going on for Kirk, perhaps vigils, but like those.
- [42:53]
Walker
Oh the, you know. So the thing here is, this is why my message earlier was that bitcoiners need to keep their eyes open and be aware is because, you know, bitcoin is property. I mean, we spend all this time on these podcasts talking about how it's the greatest form of property ever created by man and what a beautiful invention it is and how many things it can fix and help shape. But at the core of is wealth, it is money, it is property. And you have millions of people in America and in Europe who want to kill you and take your property and then have the state raise your children. Okay? Those people are your enemy, pure and simple. Those people are anti freedom, they are anti human, they are anti capitalist. They're all of those things. And I'm not going to sit here and make a retributive call for political violence in either way shape or form, like I said earlier. And I think that's also core to the message is like that is what we are doing as bitcoiners. We are free freedom maximalists. We are free speech maximalists. We believe that everybody on earth has the right to the most pristine capital ever formed. We believe in a multiracial, multi ethnic, multinational, multi geographic coalition of freedom minded individuals. I think we are a third path between my light died. I think we are a third path between the nihilism of fascism and the nihilism of communism. We are the rational optimistic path. We are rational optimism. We are occupying the moral high ground. So it's important that we get out there and we speak truth to power. We continue to try and help people. We continue to try and onboard people to bitcoin. We continue to show them the path to a better, more prosperous future and life for themselves and their family and their loved ones. Because the more people that have abundance, the less they're going to want to take it from us, number one. And the better world it will be for us and our children to inhabit. That's my sincere hope. I think that's one of the things that we as a bitcoin community can take from this is that we don't have to accept this bullshit left right paradigm which is fundamentally like we can speak truth here on this podcast that we can't speak in other places. So like, let's just say it fundamentally that's an argument over who gets access to the money printer and who gets to use it on which groups. All white people deserve it. Oh, lefties deserve it. Minorities deserve it. The underprivileged deserve it. You know, people that are in my country, et cetera, et cetera. Like, the money printer is bullshit. We're not here to take part in the game. We're bringing a new game to the table. And we think our game is better for not only Americans, but for everyone across the entire planet. That's why, you know, like, there's a thought in the back of your mind when a man gets killed for free speech and you speak for a living, like Eric was saying earlier, and you're a pun public figure, and you think to yourself, maybe I shouldn't go on this podcast. Maybe I shouldn't say what I want to say. And then you think to yourself, oh, that I'm going to ratchet it up to 11 because I am unwilling to live in a world like. Charlie Kirk died doing what he believed in, trying to create a better world for his children. That is so crucially important. I had a friend, I was having a conversation with him, and he said to me, at a certain point, when you're a parent, you know, you have to say, I'm going to protect my children, and I can't put my neck out there like that. You know, no pun intended about the neck situation. Like, you just. You can't risk your. Your life in that. In that way. And Charlie Kirk, obviously, is a person who's had death threats as a public individual, and he knew. He knew the risk every time he stepped onto a stage, and he did it fucking anyway. Because the principle is more important. This thing that we're involved in, this bitcoin shit, it's bigger than all of us. It's bigger than our principal personal wealth. It's bigger than our personal fortunes. It's bigger than this podcast. It's bigger than what implementation you run corats, people. It's bigger than everything, okay? It's so goddamn important. And if somebody kills me or you or any one of us in service of that, the mission goes on. Because this thing is. It's inevitable and it can save the world. I don't care how corny that sounds. We are saving the world here. That's what the we're going to do. And you don't have to join up with either side of crazy individuals. You can walk the middle path. You can be a rational optimist. You can have a good life. You can fix the world, dude, It's.
- [47:17]
Hodl
I'm glad that you said that because also that's going to go in the, the Huddle Rants hall of fame. But I came into this conversation with the plan that I would steer it away from Bitcoin. Like, you know, let's just talk about the, let's talk about the other stuff. Let's talk about the other stuff besides bitcoin. Let's not bring bitcoin into. And then I realized as I was, as I was just kind of like thinking about things beforehand and I realized I can't, I can't do that because it's actually inextricably linked. And Maller's had a really good, basically a vlog on X today. He essentially was talking about, about. I'm paraphrasing here, but the, that the story of humanity is engineering a better world and that bitcoin is this moral alternative. It's a peaceful revolution. It's the non violent revolution. It's a. He called it, which I thought was beautiful, an open source exit and that it gives you real property rights, real freedom, real, real, real freedom of speech, real privacy. Like these things are very real. And again, I, I thought going in, I'm like, you know, I'll maybe I'll try to keep this more on the quote, you know, political side or whatever. But then, but there is no quote, political side. The money is the political. The money is actually the most political. It's at the bedrock of the political. It necessarily is political. Not partisan. Not partisan, but political. And I think it's, it's, it's become such a meme at this point, you know, fix the money, fix the world. That it sounds reductionist or it sounds somehow glib. It sounds like we're trying to have a little tongue in cheek joke, but it's not a joke at all. And I think everybody here believes this very deeply. That yes, that actually is at the core of this. Because the political solution, if the political solution worked, the political solution would have worked. But it doesn't. So it hasn't. So what, what is the solution then? What, how do you actually come back from this? How do you actually fix this? Because people like left unchecked, this is going to lead to a lot more violence. Not from any one person's fault, but just because of the collective psychosis that people are going through. It's also going to lead to a greater centralization of power in the state because these kinds of things and the things that will come after this are used to centralize more power, tragedies are used. Look at the Patriot act, look at all the surveillance state that we've been living under since yesterday was 9, 11, since that horrible, horrible tragedy, that loss of so much human life. And look at all the human life that was lost as a result of that under false pretenses. But it all comes, it eventually all does come back to the base layer, right? It does come back to the money. It comes back to the incentives and the incentives for the centralization of power and, and the ability to do so because you control the money printer.
- [50:11]
Guy Swan
Well, I wanted to, I want to say, I actually have to bounce here in just a second, but.
- [50:20]
Eric
I want.
- [50:20]
Guy Swan
To say a couple of things real quick. Is one, how Bitcoin fits into this is culture. Politics is downstream from culture, but then politics also feeds back on culture. And that feedback mechanism is a thousand times worse when there's this infinite system of fraud to manipulate and move economic resources. And that is ultimately what the money printer is, what the issuance and control of the monetary system means. It means that whatever their political agenda or ideology is, can essentially, it can essentially be infinitely funded and that it will always, no matter how attempted it can possibly be to, to be objective or separate, it will always fuel the systems and the ideologies and the thinkers that inherit that, that reinforce its power and reinforce its structure and its views more than any other. And that's inevitable. It's not possible for it not to happen that way because if it gets one, one unit more powerful, it's, it's literally, it's this. It is a system of maintaining order. The more powerful it gets, the easier it is to, to basically cycle its power back through to, to, to manipulate the universities and how they teach people to, to push political agendas and NGO fund every stupid, like, clearly political agenda that they could ever, ever have. And what Bitcoin does ultimately completely change the culture and create people who are so intellectually lazy that they can't even handle their identity. Like somebody asking them basic questions about their identity and like what they even, how they even want to argue their belief system. And this education system just fails us so miserably that people leave like they're so uneducated they are told to memorize a whole bunch of stuff and not one second do they actually have any learning about how to be, about how to actually think, about actually having their ideas challenged. Like that's what you should have from the, from the outset. That's the only thing that matters because the world is always going to challenge your ideas. The reality is always going to punch you in the face when you believe something even slightly incorrect. And I think the reason that this particular instance, Charlie Kirk in particular, feels so different than something like Trump is because politics had always been a game of power. And there's always this, like, inherent, unspoken violence is a part of it. You know, there's political assassinations through history. Of course, you assassinate the president. The president is super powerful. This was a purely cultural and ideological assassination. Like, purely. There was no. There was no other reason to kill him other than the fact that he was effective and explicitly because what he believed. And then a whole bunch of people that believe what the killer believed were 100% okay with the fact that that ideological cultural killing just occurred. And bitcoin is a desperate, slow, slow attempt. It's going to take a really, really long time to break that feedback loop of politics cycling back in and poisoning the mind of another generation, which feeds it back into politics and makes it more powerful and more corrupt. And this, this turning point of the. The cultural change is why I think it's so powerful. Like, I've come to realize more and more that culture is everything. And the fact that bitcoin has an immense impact on culture and, like, how you think about things is increasingly one of its most important pieces, like one of its most important characteristics in my mind. And there is actually hope. But I maybe I warn. It's probably gonna take a really, really long time, and it's gonna mean that we have to put up with a lot of stuff. We're probably gonna have to deal with a whole lot of sad stories, and we're still gonna have to hold the line on this, like, in 10 years, no matter how bad it gets, we need to be having the conversation and saying the same thing. We are the middle path. We are the path without violence. We are the path where we just speak, we explain it to people, and we build the things that protect the people who want to keep going down this to actually making things better. Because there are way too many people today who just want to destroy what they don't like. And they have no capacity to even try to build something good or do something good. And then the very last thing, sorry, Erza, I just saved this. And three found this the other day. Because it's also important to be. You know, Hodl, you said be careful and think about that. There are people in your life that might be. Be careful of anybody who's talking about how great of a thing that just happened. But this is, quote, the suspect's High school friend says Robinson was the only leftist in a family of very hard Republicans. As Anna Betts posted this in a phone interview on Friday, one of Tyler Robinson's high school friends who asked to remain anonymous, said that the suspect was pretty left on everything and was, quote, the only member of his family that was really leftist. The rest of his family was very hard Republican, the friend said. Around sophomore year, the friend said Robinson became more extreme in his political views and would always just be ranting and arguing about them. The friend said that they played video games together a lot in high school and noted that the bullet engraving with the arrows was a reference to Helldivers 2, which he mentioned earlier. He said that the arrows specifically were in reference to, quote, calling in a big bomb that exists in the game called the 500 kilogram. When the friend saw the news on Friday, he said he was shocked. I knew Robinson had strong political views, but I never thought it would ever go near that far. But the obvious, you know, obvious thing is very obvious. But I, I bring that up, and what's frightening a little bit about that to me is I actually kind of have a family member. Not a super close family member, but closer than I would like family member who I wouldn't put past, like, really, really wanting to do something like that. The one saving grace is I'm not sure he's motivated or competent enough to do it, but.
- [57:26]
Walker
So he is a leftist.
- [57:28]
Guy Swan
He's a leftist. But the amount of hate. But the amount of hate that, like, basically everybody else in the family, brothers and sisters and everything, have had to block him because they can't speak to him. Like, it is literally impossible to have a conversation. And I have always tried to build bridges and be nice and not talk politics whenever I see him, but he sent me some crazed message about how my mother. Because it was. It was something about someone was pepper sprayed and beaten and that my mother deserved it too, because it was Trump's fault. And she. She supported Trump and, And. And I was just like, I hadn't been on Facebook in like a year, dude. What do you think me coming back to this message feels like? And I just. The amount of radicalization in this is like, there is a whole group of. And I don't know how you come back from this. It's gonna be hard as shit to build the bridges. It's gonna be hard as shit because I don't know how they come back. I don't. I don't think he ever comes back. I wonder if it's just Wait for them to be gone. It's just enough time passes that they're. They don't have the capacity to do the damage because you have to get the young people to actually be peaceful and actually be competent and intellectually sound enough to have a debate to. Which is again why I actually can like have a conversation with people on the right who I disagree with vehemently on so many issues. But I can talk to them about it and sometimes it's even fun. I do not feel that way on the other side. And I think there's a clear. This was a cultural assassination, which is a hell of a step. And the number of people supporting it is just quite incredible.
- [59:58]
Hodl
Guys, you need to dip. By the way. Go be.
- [60:02]
Guy Swan
Yeah, go, go hang.
- [60:04]
Walker
Yeah. I love, I love when guy is here because it sounds like a real podcast here too. Dude. It sounds like a real podcast cuz the guy's voice. Not like just me and Eric being like podcast dude. Niet that.
- [60:20]
Eric
Yeah, man.
- [60:22]
Hodl
By the way, have you heard of Heidegger and he would have had some thoughts on this.
- [60:28]
Guy Swan
Love you guys.
- [60:29]
Hodl
I'm glad we could say.
- [60:33]
Eric
Be well. Yeah, much love.
- [60:34]
Guy Swan
Later guys.
- [60:37]
Hodl
I don't know.
- [60:38]
Eric
It.
- [60:40]
Hodl
It's crazy that we're at this point in time where something that should be obviously a. Easy to denounce as bad is not unilaterally denounced as bad.
- [60:55]
Eric
I think bad. It really is.
- [60:57]
Walker
I would say it was barely. It was barely denounced. It was lip service at best.
- [61:01]
Eric
Oh, you.
- [61:02]
Hodl
You're right. I mean like I. Yeah, it's. It's.
- [61:04]
Walker
It was fringe.
- [61:05]
Hodl
Let me say this, Come on.
- [61:06]
Walker
Yeah, it was fringe. It was fringe to denounce it. That was what was fringe. The mainstream thing was to say he deserved it. The less mainstream. The slightly less mainstream. The slightly less mainstream thing was to celebrate it and the fringe thing was to denounce it. So that's how bad.
- [61:29]
Eric
I mean, I have to. I have to admit that this idea of bitcoin being the third way politically is really important because it's a disengagement through technology in the most radical way of nonviolence. And more and more people are going to have to find a harbor here specifically because of what bitcoin offers and how it technologically disables violence in this most direct form. In addition to that, like, it's probably time that bitcoiners organize themselves in a meaningful way as this third way and that, that, that impels a lot of things. But I think it's really important that like we. We have lost our country to the socialists, whether it's the International Socialists on the left or the National Socialists on the right. This is going to become a deeply alarming problem. The fact that Fuentes is now shoved into the spotlight as the leading youth right wing figure is problematic on a number of levels. And I don't see how this does not continue to escalate. And I think it's very important that we essentially have a radical third party that says both of these parties are insane, both want to use the printing press to enrich their class and deprive the other classes, and we want to simply end this and it's time that we actually seize power and return America to its core principles. I don't know what that means exactly, but I think it's really important that we continue to push on this lever in both directions. I think it's abhorrent discussing what the left has been doing. I don't want to redeem or accuse the right from things that the left would necessarily be critical of that I don't agree with. But I do, I can, I can understand why they would have that perspective. But either way about it, like, this is, this is pretty terrifying. And I'm pretty sure that this is like the full initiation of the official beginning of the Fourth Turning. And the frank truth is, is like, I expect someone to try to murder Fuentes in the next six months.
- [63:50]
Walker
They already did. They already did. They already tried to murder him. You know, they'll try again. He'll face several assassination attempts, by the way. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, I cut into your point.
- [64:01]
Eric
I was just gonna say like, like the weird conspiracy theory aspect of me is pretty afraid that through hypermedia and social media and the amount of doom scrolling, like I'm, I'm very afraid that like there's just a fuckton of Manchurian candidates out there that are just waiting for triggers. And that like this is one of the bigger triggers, is like them getting to see somebody be murdered, it becoming this catalyzing thing. And like, to be clear, like, people that engage in this kind of violence are such fucking losers that they could never actualize any form of meaningful dialogue in any way to actually get attention in the same way that could have any substantial impact on the world. So this is, this is their last thing that they do is like a child lashing out against a parent who says, go to your room. They engage in a hissy fit and a meltdown where what ends up happening is that violence is the only thing that they can do because they literally lack the intellectual capacity to manage their emotions. And so I, I think there's a lot of people out there secretly going, yeah, like I should kill some right wing influencer. Because look at how this person celebrated. They're probably going to receive a eulogy at their funeral. That they're going to be seen as a spectacular matriarch of the left and as someone who is courageous enough to meet the violent rhetoric of individuals like Kirk with the true violence of what our principles represent and that we can't let this hate speech exist. We have to literally and figuratively murder it. And I think that it's going to get problematic and I think, like, it's just really stupid. It's like, like, like, I just don't get it. Like, like you're, you're aggravating the side that has all of the guns and is trained in them and understands how to use them. And like you, like, furthermore, like your, your people aren't physically strong. Don't. It's like really weird to me that you want to pick a fight with this division of people. And yeah, I'm just, I'm sad and scared. You know, it's, it's just, it's just, it's really painful that like this, this is how debased everything has become. Instead of people going, hold up, like, we're both American, we both honor the Constitution and what it means. Like, let's calm the fuck down for a minute and really think about who and what we want to be.
- [66:35]
Walker
So think about this for a second. On one point of Eric's is there was a video going around yesterday of somebody who turned out not to be the shooter. And I was reserving judgment on this person when I saw the video because I was like, who knows if they're the shooter or not? So I didn't race to anger at this person or anything. But I was thinking about it when I was seeing accounts say, hey, it might be this person. I'm not going to name them or anything because it's not them. So no reason to dox them or anything. But I was like, it can't be this person because the person who shot Charlie Kirk would never debate him, would never go down there and speak to him, is physically and humanly incapable of doing that, just like Eric said. And so it is a tantrum. It is. You know, my three year old, if I say no more, this or that, and then she gets upset and she hasn't had her blood sugars low, she'll swing at me, you know, like A wild chimpanzee just out of nowhere. And, you know, it still hurts, man. They can hit pretty hard, you know, but, you know, we obviously would forgive 3 year olds for that behavior because they're not doing that much damage, and we know that they don't have their frontal lobe developed, and so they can't really prevent themselves from engaging in that, you know, like, my two year old the other night just threw her whole tray of food on the floor, and my wife goes, why did you do that? Do you know why you did that? And my. She just goes, no. And it's like, yeah, we. Yeah, we know you don't know. We know you don't know why you did that. And I think, you know, I don't want to be like, Mr. Magnanimous here, but I don't even think the kid who shot Charlie Kirk knows why he did it. You know, he confessed apparently, allegedly, to his father about it. So that shows, you know, he was raised in a Christian household, in a conservative household, so he had some type of conscience about the whole thing. Like, he felt he must have been reading the response and seeing how people hated him, and he must have felt guilty, and it must have been a sickening feeling realizing what he had done and how he had turned his foe, his, you know, imagined foe, into an even greater adversary in death. And now Charlie Kirk is like. Like a white Martin Luther King Jr. You know, I mean, he literally is a martyr. He's an American hero. I would be okay with them starting to name streets Charlie Kirk Boulevard. Like, that's. Hopefully that's how rapidly my opinion shifted on Charlie Kirk when they shot this guy. But I think it's important to. To hone in on the bitcoin stuff. Okay? So, like, that's our unique value prop. So we don't need to be like every other podcast and talk, you know, only exclusively about the political ends, because we. We know that the political machinations are, you know, they're kind of bullshit. It's real because you have to pay attention to it and defend yourself from what's coming. But it's kind of bullshit, man. And I think that both of the worldviews are nihilistic in a deep, deep, profound, meaningful sense. I mean, I don't think that the far right fascists have a worldview that's anything other than pain, vengeance, and retribution for the people who stole and wronged them. And I think maybe far down the line, they have this idea of a utopia. A utopia that's like, it looks like what society Looked like in the 1950s. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. And I think the communists, you know, they have the same idea of vengeance and sadism. Sadism heavily. And at the end of it, there's some sort of a bullshit utopia. Those bullshit utopias aren't real. Okay?
- [69:58]
Eric
It literally means no place in Greek. That's what utopia translates to.
- [70:03]
Walker
I think in bitcoin, we already have the fertile soil of a movement of sovereign individuals who respect each other. When you go to a bitcoin meetup, you talk to people from all over the world. I've been to bitcoin meetups and I've talked to people from every corner of the world with every political ideology. I've sat next to people who are hardcore anti Semites and people who are hardcore Zionist. And I've had conversations with them back to back. Right? I mean, there are. Every type of person is represented within bitcoin, but there's this core understanding that first of all, we can't take from each other via violence. That simply is not possible. The other person has to be willing to let you take their bitcoin. You can't get their bitcoin unless they're willing to give it to you. Number one, you can't just kill them and then take it. So there's a, you know. Right. Right there. There's. There's a element where you have to gain some form of consent over them. So you have to engage in at least some form of dialogue. Even if it's blowtorching off somebody's fingertips, it's some form of consent, you know, And I. I don't know. I just. I feel, you know, deep in my heart, I can't fully articulate all the reasons why, but I feel very deeply that we are the rebirth of the American movement, that this is the American renaissance, that this is the new golden age. And I feel it when we're in person together, when I'm with Eric. Man, me and Eric always light up when we see each other. We always get drunk together. We always get into these deep cosmic life talks. Same with Walker. Like, when I see you guys, I just, you know, it's like my brothers are here and it's not just cause we're like friends on the pod. I feel this camaraderie with almost everyone in bitcoin. It's the rare exception, like, and, you know, we're all at the vents. Everybody in bitcoin is just a cool, normal person who, like, you know, because walk. You watch these guys on the podcast, you think they like have some celebrity status? Like, no, they just, they talk to every. They talk to everybody. Everybody talks to everybody. We have really cool fun times at the events. It's actually honestly great. I know people don't go because they don't want to DOX and opsec and all that stuff. But like, dude, it's the. It's so refreshing to be around your people. And it's not just because we're like, oh yeah, we're all rich. Bitcoin is wrong and rich. We love money. That's not what it's about.
- [72:23]
Guy Swan
It's.
- [72:23]
Eric
It's.
- [72:23]
Walker
It's spirit. It's spiritual. It's a spiritual communing that we do with each other over this optimism about the future which we can't find in any other arena of life. And I think like deeply, like the communists and the fascists both just in a big sense want you to have a horrible life. They want you to have a miserable life and they want you to cede all your power to them. I want you. My call to you is to take your power for yourself and have a beautiful, amazing life. That's what I want for you. That's what we want for you. That's what bitcoiners want for you. And we want to be surrounded by, by people that are like us. We want to be surrounded by people who feel good, who are sovereign, who have, you know, prosperity in their life, who have a feeling that they are a unique sovereign individual who can't be. They're not just a puppet, you know, on, on, on state land. They don't just exist to serve some dictator's preferences or some oligarchy's desires. They exist to serve their own needs, their own desires in this deep, meaningful like upper trajectory of the Maslow hierarchy sense of self actualization and to be surround, Let me tell you, like seriously, like to be surrounded by people like that is electric. And I think that like if we, if we seriously get organized and begin to expand this movement, we are the, we are the third way. Like people are going to want to join. Even people who end up having smaller amounts of Bitcoin than OGs or whatever are going to want to be there just for the cultural revival.
- [73:56]
Eric
You know, like the, the world needs us so much right now because both the right and left, they are both nihilistic. And that nihilism is sincerely based on there isn't a God, you aren't powerful, you don't have agency, you aren't sovereign. You need this fucked up movement of violent political Power in order to protect you and to be able to implement your ideology against the enemy. Whereas we say, fuck both of those sides. You are an empowered individual through God. You, with your private keys, are a lone individual that is empowered against a system that hates you and wants to steal from you, and it cannot. And because of the way that we participate in a consensus together that makes sure that others can't steal you, each new individual that joins us makes our movement all the more powerful and disempowers their movement all the more. And this empowerment isn't based upon you joining our collective ideology. It's about you joining in the true prosperity of what logic is and how cryptography can allow for a total substrate of society to create a new form of law that truly is exceptional in that when you are protecting your Bitcoin using thoughtful, secure protocols, no one can steal it from you, no matter what. And there is no government, no nation state, no politician that can ever make any sort of guarantee like that to you. And that's why this is the beginning of a radical new movement. And through that, we can say, it's not the Republicans that have the power to create money. It's not the Democrats. It's not the deep state. It's that no one, no one is entitled to create more money. That devalues your money, but more importantly, it devalues you as a human being. That's what this entire political paradigm for the last hundred years, that is called fiat, is about. It is about other people getting to determine what your value is and devaluing you by revaluing their own wealth and the people close to them more than you. And we say, enough of this garbage and bullshit. It's time to lateralize in such a way to say that all people everywhere are entitled to the wealth that they earn for themselves at the price that they deserve. And that once you've secured that for you, that belongs to you and only you. And we want to invite as many people to join us from. From all cultures and walks of life. It doesn't matter if you're black or white or green or a dog or an alien or black or trans or anything. Everyone is welcomed into Bitcoin in the most radical sense in a way that no form of political party today could guarantee in any meaningful way. I mean, we. We literally have anonymous individuals who none of us know their real identities, creating and building some of the most powerful tools that we've ever seen. I mean, like. Like almost sort of flippantly and casually, like, fucking Jack and Cali just built out tools that, like, are overthrowing governments now. And it's fucking extraordinary because, like, and it's hilarious because, like, this returns, Jack, all the way back to the origin of Twitter, which was originally created as a method for people to communicate during protests, but that whole thing got derailed into this and now it's risen again like a phoenix. A phoenix in the form of bit chat. And people can actually collectivize and use nodes and, and, and utilize their phones in such a way that they can have this unstoppable form of communication. And again, returning to sort of the original conversation we had, this is all about the freedom of speech. And it's when people can get together and go, hey, this abusive system that uses algorithms to push our buttons and make us angry and hateful and divide us, it's fucking bullshit. When we actually have a true open forum that we can debate and discuss with each other, we realize that we're all sick and tired of the forms of abuse and nihilism that have been consuming and eating all of us. And that no longer do we want to tolerate being abused in this way. And we do have a real answer. And that answer is through bitcoin and the sort of culture that we're implementing with each other and all of the different fields of expertise that come to here and how people see that there's truly something to celebrate and create together when we can go into what it means to create a low time preference form of life that that is really what Americanism is about. So I'm as dark as these times are. I'm really excited for the fact that I think that this is pushing us sort of towards front and center for more people to start thinking about as a real political solution.
- [78:32]
Walker
And, you know, like, not to be cringe, but I don't care about being cringe. Like Bitcoin. Bitcoin saved me. Bitcoin saved me. And not like in a biblical sense or anything. Like, I believe in God, right? I don't think bitcoin saved my immortal soul, but bitcoin saved me from the brink of nihilism because it was a practical tool that I could use to build a more beautiful future, build out the kingdom of heaven. And, you know, I bet a lot of us share that story where we felt very nihilistic, like the place that. And probably we got there sooner than other people because of like a Slumdog Millionaire life experience thing where, like, we were just the anointed ones who saw it early just because. Just because the happenstance of our experiences in life, right? Like where, you know, if you remember the movie Slumdog Million, there's nothing particularly interesting about this guy. He's just a random Indian guy who just happened to have the exact set of life experiences. It's destiny, right? Like it's destiny. And I think that we saw it early and so we were able to get to bitcoin sooner. And maybe other people weren't as nihilist. Maybe the last, like, 10 years of politics, which has felt so turbulent and full of turmoil, has really been about people grappling with the death of the old system, you know, because we're seeing now nihilism is ever present. Gen Z is basically almost entirely nihilistic. It's hitting the boomer generation, it's hitting the millennial generation. It's the place that we were all in, probably post great financial crisis. I was certainly in that place after the gfc. I realized, like, the game was up, it was all rigged. You know, like, it hit me like a shot in the heart. I remember reading some. Some journalist who had come to one of the bitcoin conferences, and he was talking about all of us, and he said that, do you remember the great financial crisis? Did you think maybe it was bad policy or, you know, somebody should have gone to jail for it? Not the bitcoiners. To the bitcoiners, the great financial crisis was the equivalent of seeing Santa Claus dragged out of the house on Christmas Eve and shot in the head in the middle of the street. And that's. That's right. That's how I felt. That's how I felt.
- [80:41]
Eric
Like he was burned alive.
- [80:43]
Walker
Right. You know, that's. That's how I felt. And so we were at the. We were in the nihilistic place earlier. And I think that because of that, we have a responsibility to act as shepherds and guides to other people who are just now starting to claw their way out of the nihilism. And bitcoin is the practical tool by which they can do that. Right? And so it's like, yeah, good.
- [81:04]
Eric
The nihilism is really important because, like, you have to go into the thing thick black of night to truly question, like, is there no meaning to anything? Is there no God? Is there no reason? And so I challenge that, like, it wasn't fate that brought us here, but Providence. Because through us doing that, our own quivering and shaking around the true existential dread of like, is there no God? Is. Is there no purpose or meaning? Like, is. Is this existence, the one that we've been given to eke out, to try to max out our 401ks, to work our 40 hour weeks for 40 years so that we can retire and eke out just a little bit of existence and snuff out into nothing. Or is there something bigger and more meaningful? Does truth actually matter? Is there some plausible way that somehow this fucked up magic Internet money thing, as stupid and as ludicrous and absurd as this idea, is there some way that this lone individual, Satoshi Nakamoto, actually cobbled together these pieces in such a way that this could actually be the solution? And decade, you know, a decade ago, like, that was a pretty fucking ludicrous principle. But because we were so driven and shaken by this existential nihilism of like, could this actually be true? We ran the shit all the way down. We kicked the tires repeatedly. And we're like, this is actually it. And we said that in spite of being in front of other people who are like, you're a fucking moron. Bitcoin could never work. It's going to go to zero. I was recounting to another friend recently about how I had a very close friend who. Brilliant man. You know, he graduated valedictorian, Brown, valedictorian, Harvard Law School, clerk for the Supreme Court. Brilliant man. So when I was pitching him about Bitcoin at $800 about how this was the most important innovation in human history, he was like, hold up, Eric. He was like, I'm just going to say it like, I'm smarter than you. Like, sell all your bitcoin, put it into S&P 500 and be happy with it. And the moment he said that, I was like, our friendship is done. I didn't say that to him, but I knew that. And I was like, look, man, like, agree to disagree. Like, this thing's going to the moon. It's the most important development that's happened in human history. And I really hope that you're going to think about it again. And I haven't spoken to him since. I think he's a good person. But it was. I've encountered that time and time again. And it was only through my conviction of returning to the truth as the most radical principle that I had to govern myself, that I had to be like, everyone else is wrong about this, and they're wrong. Because every time that I approach them about the facts and the truth about what this thing is, they always go back to some ideological or some authoritarian decree that they're somehow better than me. And that's if they can actually debate me on its face, on principle about why I'm wrong. Sure. And this returns us all the way back to what Kirk represented. Bitcoin is this thing that we need to start being forceful with other people about. Like, this is the fucking answer. And if it's not, prove it to me. Use dialogue, Use debate. Tell me logically about why bitcoin's going to fail. Tell me why this isn't the answer that all peoples everywhere need. Tell me why this doesn't end the endemic exploitation of fiat, which, to be clear, you fucking support your. You call yourself a liberal and you support war. How fucking dare you? How dare you come to me and say that what I'm doing is wrong when you support a system that inherently props up violence. How dare you? And I'm not gonna stand for it anymore. And I think it's time that as bitcoiners, we actually stand up and start pushing people and go, if you actually believe any of the. That you say, tell me why bitcoin isn't the answer to this problem. And I think that we're going to find that. That through pushing that, we're going to find new and different solutions, and we're actually going to start finding that people do want to start collectivizing ourselves in a new way. And I think that there's a new form of politics to be discovered here. And, like, I think it's that we need to go through state legislatures. I think that that's actually the key. We need to ignore the federal jurisdiction, and we need to start trying to empower states in a radical and new and different way that allows for us a much greater focus, and we can go state by state and essentially convert each one and then move forward. But again, this is a massive task that I'm woefully unprepared for. So I hope that there's some young charismatic individual out there who's waiting to take the baton.
- [85:29]
Hodl
Did I buy a bunch of Orange Party domains right before this episode? Did I start the. At the Orange Party YouTube channel right before this episode? Did I. I didn't start a new RSS feed before this episode that I didn't have enough time, but did I also start Orange Party pod Twitter account for this episode? X? Excuse me. Yes, I did.
- [85:51]
Walker
It is funny because I feel like the more. The more me and Eric are on stream together, the more we're goading each other into running for political.
- [85:58]
Hodl
You guys are so close, man. You're so close. You'll be a good charismatic duo. It would be too. I'm just saying I'm throwing it out there. I'll be. I'll be your chief of staff. I'll be in the, you know, the one in the backgrounds. I'll be the one kneecapping people when I need to. That's what I've understood chiefs of staffs do these days. You unique people.
- [86:16]
Eric
I mean, I need my story arc of saving California. And like, like, I have. I have this comedic sin of. I worked for Gavin Newsom's original campaign to get him elected to mayor of San Francisco. So, like, I initiated his political career. So I need to help.
- [86:31]
Hodl
Your fault.
- [86:32]
Eric
Do.
- [86:32]
Hodl
It's your fault.
- [86:33]
Eric
Yeah, there's actually, like, a pretty decent argument that, like, I actually. It is my fault. So I don't know. Guys like it. It's. It's really scary. But it's also a gift because, like. Because I've had people ask me very directly. You know, they're like, it seems like this stuff could actually become, like, very real in your personal life. And those threats could find you. Like, aren't you. Aren't you worried and scared for your kids? And my answer always to them is like, yeah, but you know what worries and scares me a lot more is a world where my kids don't have privacy, is a world where my kids have to be afraid of what they say publicly out loud, because of how that backlashes on them. I'm. I'm much more afraid of the world that's going to be given to us if we don't do anything than the possibility of me losing my life or being attacked or whatever simply because I'm going to speak publicly. And that risk to me is well worth it. And furthermore, like, how fucking glorious, right? Like. Like as tragic as what happened to Kurt. I. I fucking venerate and honor and respect him, and he will go down in glory. As a man in the history of America, at a time when things were dark, who is courageous enough to stand up and speak truth to power? Because as I said on your. Your noster post, Hodl, that, like, this is what the ancient Greeks called parresia, which immediately and directly translates to freedom of speech. Because it's about being able to speak openly in a form, frankly and directly to what the problems are without feeling threatened. But the irony that. That also, that Foucault pointed out, is that, like, if you just stand up and start speaking dumb like, you, the people actually be like, he actually wasted the assembly's time in enough of an idiotic way that like, he's not even welcome to live here anymore. Like, him, he's gone. And, like, that's really important because, like, well, like, I. Again, like, what Kirk did repeatedly was showing that, like, a lot of people will stand up in a public forum and start spouting off that they don't have no clue about. And that's really important because it shows not only are they idiots that don't know what they're talking about, but that in them choosing to present themselves publicly, they have a full mask off moment where they realize that they're a fucking moron, too. And that's really important. It's important for people to be able to stand up, make themselves an idiot, and then be ostracized because they. What they said was fucking stupid. And I welcome that. And we need to welcome that because that's the only way that we're actually going to establish who has logic and who's a fucking moron.
- [89:03]
Walker
Yeah.
- [89:03]
Hodl
Hey, men, guys. I've kept you for a while now. Is there anything you want to say? I. I feel there was a lot of good things said. Is there anything else you want to say before we close out also? Yeah, I think. Yeah, go ahead. No, I was gonna say. Oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
- [89:23]
Eric
No, no, no, Go.
- [89:23]
Walker
Keep it around you, sir. No, I was just gonna say. Okay, that. No, I got. I just took the baton. I got to keep it. I was just gonna say, listen, man, on the nihilism point, we were there. I was there. Eric was there, Walker was there. We all really felt it. We were staring into the abyss, wondering if our lives had meaning, wondering if God was real. Wondering if anything good was ever going to happen for us. And thinking probably that none of it was ever going to happen for us. And then somehow some voice, something, some spark compels you to move, right? And I would say that whether you're a communist or a Nazi socialist or a Groiper, you should listen to that voice. And we welcome all of you to Bitcoin. If it compels you to move towards Bitcoin, you deserve. You deserve a good life. Like, truly like, you deserve a good life. I don't know if you're listening to this message. I don't know why you convinced yourself. I don't know why I did. I guess it all just seemed hopeless at the time. But there was a time in my life where I convinced myself that I didn't deserve anything good to happen to me. You know, I didn't deserve anything good in life. And something in me just said, that's bullshit. And it started off as like a quiet whisper. And it grew and grew the more I took ownership and responsibility and started taking positive forward action and order to change my circumstances.
- [91:15]
Eric
And.
- [91:18]
Walker
That was what led me to Bitcoin, you know. And bitcoin really did meaningfully impact my life. Give me hope and optimism for the future, allow me to have a lens outside of the current political paradigm, make me quite prosperous, give me a lot of really cool friendships, intellectual discussions and debates, more meaning, more purpose, the ability to have a bigger family, the ability to have autonomy in my time, the ability to have freedom of association. Bitcoin gave me all those things. So it's a very powerful tool and it's nonviolent at its core. We're not trying to compel anybody to do anything. We're not going to force you to, you know, get bitcoin, but we're not going to use state power against you. We just are asking for you to care about yourself. That's it. It's not even about us or bitcoin. It's just about you.
- [92:29]
Eric
It's interesting because as I brought up Foucault and this idea of parresia, the freedom of speech and to stand and speak publicly, Foucault actually linked us back to an idea of self care. Of that parresia is actually the greatest form of self care that there is. And I think that that's true with Bitcoin too, is that like this is about the most radical form of love that there is. Because you're actually saying that when you labor and you choose to allocate your wealth into something that you have labored for, that this is now a medium and mode that truly belongs to you. It's the preeminent form of property. And that property is what allows you access to all the forms of material things that actually offer you life in a meaningful way. But even more importantly is it exits and goes beyond the current political system that always has methodologies to extract and rob individuals of resources. And so I think it's really important that. And again, as you pointed out, Bitcoin doesn't have any. Like, we don't have a law enforcement arm. There isn't anything we have here to force people into it. And furthermore, if, if, if you're someone that is exploited and is in danger or could have your money stolen from you, the fact that you can cloak yourself with a non amenity and use the cryptographic protocol on its substrate to actually truly protect yourself using cryptography is an extremely important thing. And I want to be very clear that like Bitcoin is not a right wing nor a left wing movement. It is something that is beyond and above both of those movements because it truly engages in the political once again. Because this is about who do we want to be as a people in a technologically advanced future? Are we going to be people that are going to live inside a surveillance panopticon that is going to destroy the very idea of privacy itself? Or are we going to empower ourselves in such a way to use this technology to say no, there are areas where we have God given rights towards ourselves to be protected and to have privacy. And to return to these core ideals that really are what the Constitution of America is about. And are we going to make a choice to now infuse and inject into our Constitution a technologically forward viewpoint that allows for us to say yes. It turns out that the first, second, third, fourth and fifth amendment are all enshrined in bitcoin. That you have a right to self custodial your own own keys and that no government has any right to try to forcibly decrypt you from that. That is going to become a preeminent thing in the future. And how we're going to very much make an active choice as a peoples together to create a new future for all people and to be important. This is why it's related back to sort of the founding fathers and the foundation of America is that like this is the beginning of something totally new that modifies all of human history moving forward. If we get this right and can do it correctly, there will be profound ramifications that will echo throughout the centuries that are to come. And people will talk about us hundreds of years from now saying, wow, these men saw that early on how important this technology was and were able to beat back the dark nihilism of the moment. Utilizing this technology as a bright jewel that could shine for all peoples everywhere to come towards because of the new political paradigm that it implemented through cryptography and technology. So I just really want to welcome everyone. And a more important note too is that like if you're listening to this, you're part of a very, very small, select group of people that you like. You the dude listening to it right now, washing your dishes. Who has only talked to bitcoin, maybe in a kind of a casual way with a couple people. It's like you, dude, you have the responsibility to start going out in your community and actually really having these real conversations with people going no this isn't about money. This is about something much bigger. This is about how we can choose to solve these seemingly unsolvable political problems through a new technological methodology. And that's your responsibility. And it's going to only be through all of us who are already present here to really take the responsibility to push forward and have uncomfortable and difficult conversations with people that there's going to be days, it feels like you only lose, but there's also going to be days where you talk to somebody and something clicks hard for them and they get to change their life and that pays dividends. I can't tell you how many times I've met people who came up to me and said, hey, I heard you on a podcast a couple years ago. I started stacking. The price popped hard at one point, and suddenly I had enough money that I could quit my job and start a business. And now I'm doing shit that I fucking love. And like, thanks, man. There's a real possibility for you to get to have that opportunity to change somebody's life in a meaningful way. Because Bitcoin's going to keep doing what it's been doing over the last decade. And as it does that, people are going to become very present to the fact that this can radically change the world in a positive way for everybody so that we don't have to look towards these nihilistic and hateful solutions and that we can actually choose to make a better future for all peoples everywhere.
- [97:41]
Hodl
I have no notes. Amen. All I'd like to say is American HODL Eric Cason 2020 something or 2030 something? Orange party. It's going to happen. It is written. It is inevitable. There's nothing I can do. It's out of my hands. I appreciate both of you guys.
- [98:04]
Walker
Since we're gonna have to work on our we appreciate you Guy Swan. We gotta work on our Guy Swan podcast voice, though. You know, it's like, I know.
- [98:12]
Hodl
He's so. He's so smooth. Casen couldn't be the president, you can't be the vp. You know, he's so smooth. I would do it.
- [98:21]
Eric
I was gonna say that.
- [98:21]
Walker
I'm okay with that. I'm okay with you.
- [98:26]
Eric
Well, we'll just do a dice roll for it.
- [98:28]
Hodl
There we go. That, that works. That works. But no, I appreciate you guys to do this.
- [98:34]
Walker
Me and Eric running the executive would just be like, what's on the agenda today? Like, we mean nothing. We're not doing. The state works better when it doesn't work.
- [98:45]
Eric
We're gonna. We're gonna do DMT and consult with the. We're going to consult with the aliens to see what they want to do.
- [98:50]
Walker
Yeah.
- [98:51]
Hodl
Thought they were machine elves, but I'll let it slide.
- [98:54]
Walker
Tell the military. Tell the military they get 10 bombs a year. We don't care where they send them. We don't. You know, 10. That's it. We know they won't accept zero.
- [99:03]
Hodl
Use them wisely. Use them wisely.
- [99:07]
Walker
They'll kill us if we say zero.
- [99:08]
Hodl
A few drone strikes just to keep them happy. And on that happy note, I'm going to cut this thing now. Appreciate you guys.
- [99:18]
Eric
All right, thank you.
- [99:19]
Walker
Gentlemen. Gentlemen.
- [99:28]
Hodl
And that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast. Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet. Find me on Noer@primal.net Walker and this podcast@primal.netcoin on X, YouTube and Rumble. Just search Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram. Itcoin podcast. Head to the Show Notes to grab sponsor links. Head to substack.com walkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you. And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else. Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the bitcoin podcast. Until next time, stay free.