← THE Bitcoin Podcast
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- [00:00]
Maddox
How money is supposed to work is that like the person who has the fucking most money is the person who's most valuable to society. And when the government is printing money and the money is broken, what happens is the people who are the least valuable and the most skilled at trickery and deception and fraud basically end up rising to the top. I want all the productive people to get bitcoin, understand Bitcoin and save in bitcoin. The heart of civilization, like the core, ironman heart of civilization, is the entrepreneur. If the entrepreneur is unhealthy, then everything else collapses, everything fails. And if the entrepreneur is healthy and supported and has an environment that they can create and build and contribute in, then that's what grows out into civilization. Bitcoin is that ship, that ultimate tool for the entrepreneur to put them in a position where they can conduct business without all of the fucking weight and all of the crap that comes from the fiat system and also the heavily over regulated crazy government system. And it just free, frees, frees everything up. Capitalism is so fucking powerful that like we haven't had anything close to like real capitalism since the creation of the Fed, right? And look at what we've accomplished in spite of that. It's very hopeful because imagine the world when we just fucking. Even if like just only 10% of the sludge was removed, imagine the efficiency like it used to be year over year over year. Even in spite of all the crazy shit, it was like better and better and better, things got better. And then we just kind of hit this point where now like things are getting worse year over year over year and I just can't wait to fucking return. I don't think like the system is going to change at all because obviously everybody in it is incentivized for it not to change. I think that entrepreneurs who onboard and use bitcoin, we're just gonna build our own system. And people will transact in bitcoin in bitcoin world or they'll transact in fiat world. And just obviously the world without all of the fucking garbage is gonna do way better. I think bitcoin is so significant that we won't even mark the creation of money as an important time in human history. I think that bitcoin will be the marker of the creation of money. I think we've all won the fucking lottery to be born at this time where the work we do now is gonna echo for 10,000 years in the bitcoin space. There's just nothing that will has such an insanely crazy impact On. On civilization.
- [02:50]
Walker
Madx, welcome. Fucking A. It's a shame this is not in person, but this will have to do for now. It's good to see you, man.
- [02:58]
Maddox
Good to see you as well. Yeah. Looking forward to an in person one at some point. I've been doing these sober, so it's been a whole learning curve.
- [03:09]
Walker
Are you, if you don't mind me asking, are you so sober? Sober? Like, did you. Have. You. I, I thought you, you did drink, right?
- [03:19]
Maddox
Yeah, until this year, so.
- [03:22]
Walker
Damn. And you went just fully. So you. I'm. You don't mind if I'm enjoying a couple of miles? Okay. Yeah, tell me about that. Was it just like you wanted to make a change? Like, wanted some clarity? Like what, what, what led you to it?
- [03:42]
Maddox
Well, there was a particular event which I would discuss privately with you, but it kind of been like a long time goal. Just something you kind of say, like, ah, you know, gotta quit drinking or whatever, but. Or slow down or whatever. I. I was never like too. I had some crazy years. But yeah, the funniest thing, man, about, about quitting drinking is that like, you know, you're. You go out with your buddies and you get kind of fucked up and like, you're having a good time, having some drinks, you're a little bit wasted and you know, inevitably, some point in the night you say a bunch of fucking really stupid shit. And then like the next morning you're all hungover and you're like, oh, fuck, like thinking about the fucking stupid shit you said and then you could just pass it off and be like, oh, yeah, it was just, I was really fucked up. Like I was drunk. So now I've been sober for seven months now. And what I learned is that like, I go out with my friends who are drinking and we all hang out and inevitably in the night I just say a bunch of really fun stupid shit. And then I wake up the next morning not hungover. And I guess, you know, there's nobody to blame anymore. I can't blame them. Can't just be like, oh, I was fucked up. That's why I said all that embarrassing shit. So it turns out you just, you know, you just say a lot of fucking stupid shit. Sometimes I think we all have that.
- [05:22]
Walker
Yeah, I mean, but you know, maybe the stupidity is in the eye of the beholder, right? Like, we're always our own harshest critics. I feel like there's just something about the nighttime in general, like whether you're drunk or sober or whatever else, something in between. It's like the nighttime casts a strange spell, I believe.
- [05:42]
Maddox
Yeah, it does.
- [05:44]
Walker
Well, congrats on seven months. I mean, that's, you know, it's one of those things like. Yeah, I should. I should probably. Should probably stop drinking. But then again, I just love these ice cold Miller lights so much.
- [05:56]
Maddox
Yeah, man, I'll tell you, like, I'm not happy about this. Like, I'm not thrilled about this. I'm not. I'm not pushing it on it on anybody. Like, to be honest with you, it fucking sucks. Like, I don't. I don't miss being hungover, but I definitely do miss being like, fucking wasted with the. With the bros, you know, and it's like, it is. It's socially isolating in a lot of ways. Um, that. But that was actually one of my primary motivations is because I just kind of figured I've got, like, a small window and a huge amount of work to do. And I was just losing, like, a lot of time from, like, being hungover and not being able to, like, come in and crush it or having, you know, showing up late or whatever. And like, that is just. That that's the biggest benefit I've gotten from it is just more. More time, but. And obviously savings too, because of course, you know what they say, if it's not Chateau Neuf du Pap, it's fucking cooking wine. So, like, the SAT stacking has been going a lot better and. But yeah, I don't feel, like, amazingly more healthy or better. Like, I thought I would, like, feel 18 again, and that's just not the case. So.
- [07:19]
Walker
You know, love me a little chat. Newf to Pappy. Just. Wow. But I have not heard that particular expression. That's hilarious. But, yeah, that's. That. That shit will. That's a lot of sats per bottle. Let's just say, you know, that's a. Racks. The bill racks up quick.
- [07:35]
Maddox
I have, you know, it's interesting. I like, used to. I think just from my family upbringing, I was so forced into, like, an investment mentality that, like, every dollar I ever earned, it was like, if you earn money and you don't invest it and you spend it on something, then it's a loss. So, like, my brain was very wired that, like, spending on anything was a loss. And so, like, I went through this, like, very, I guess, like, like stingy, sort of cheap phase for a long time where I wasn't spending. Like, when it. When it comes to wine in Canada, we have this brand called, like, Naked Grape. You just get a bottle of of naked grape or barefoot, I think they have in the States. And you just mix that up with some Coca Cola and. Hold on, wait, wait.
- [08:30]
Walker
Mixed up with Coca Cola. Wait, wait, wait.
- [08:32]
Maddox
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's really shitty wine, so you gotta splash it with something.
- [08:37]
Walker
Yeah, but why not maybe like some. Some mineral water or something? Coca Cola, man, you got you Canadians are wild dud.
- [08:44]
Maddox
I think it's actually an Asian thing. I don't know, I. I can't remember. I think it was like a Korean person or something that showed it to me.
- [08:50]
Walker
But I know the Germans do like beer and coke, but wine and Coke, that's like. You just blew my mind.
- [08:56]
Maddox
Yeah, well, it'll. You know, it. It makes the shitty wine taste great. Tastes like wine flavored Coca Cola, you know, like Coke, cherry, but it's like Coke wine.
- [09:06]
Walker
Okay.
- [09:07]
Maddox
It's great.
- [09:07]
Walker
Okay.
- [09:08]
Maddox
But yeah, like. And then. Yeah, I was just gonna say.
- [09:11]
Walker
So wait, you said you grew up in like a very like, investment minded family. I assume that, like we're. If I can ask, like, you don't have to dox too much, but were your parents like from the investment world? Was that. Is that the situation or was it something else?
- [09:27]
Maddox
No, they. Well, I guess, kind of. But like, my family around me was all entrepreneurs. Okay, so like my. My dad was an entrepreneur, my godparents were entrepreneurs and kind of. I didn't. Most of my family is overseas in Europe, like my actual blood family. So is the case a lot in Alberta that you kind of have a lot of people's families who are like new generations to Canada. It's kind of just different people from different walks of life. And the area I happened to live in was just outside of the city, like where I was born, outside of the city. But everyone who was there pretty much was entrepreneurs or oil and gas workers or ranchers. So from like my entire upbringing really primed me to be ready for bitcoin, which is great. And it makes me kind of think about how lucky like, your son is and all the other bitcoin kids that are growing up. Because having bitcoin parents is probably the best fucking thing that could happen. Like I said to anyone who complains about being late on bitcoin, I always say, like, imagine what the people who haven't even been born yet feel. It's like, you can buy it today. They got. It'll be if they're born five years from now. And, you know, takes them like 15 years to kind of figure out that bitcoin's a good Idea. Maybe longer in most cases, especially if they go into the fiat system. Like, that's hard times, man. Like, by the time they're like, fuck, I should have bought bitcoin. They'll be like just $100 million coins. And like, our children will just be like, well, my dad had this podcast and my, my dad was this psychopathic artist. And.
- [11:25]
Walker
So it sounds like mine does though. Like, you know, like.
- [11:29]
Maddox
Well, I mean, I, like my dad had a podcast. Like, I mean, but you're also a creator, which is great, which is why I'm really happy to be here. I think there's a lot too many podcast. I think that the, the perfect combo is like, have the podcast, because why not? It's fucking fun, but also like, make stuff and you guys actually make stuff, which is great.
- [11:49]
Walker
We've been on a pseudo hiatus from like making. Making stuff with. Just because of our little guy. And let's be honest, Carla was the, the production guru behind all of that. I'm. I'm just the pretty face, you know, and so that's, that's slowed down a little bit. But we're gonna, we're gonna try to kick back into it a little bit just because, like, I don't know, the vibes have also shifted though. Like when we were, when we started making content was like bear market. Like, that was when we really like got into making content hardcore. And like, you know, it's like, I don't know, the vibes are somehow better in the bear market in some ways.
- [12:21]
Maddox
Yeah, they are.
- [12:22]
Walker
You know what I mean? Like, it's counterintuitive. Like you'd think like, oh, bull market. Yeah, everybody. Like, we've only been here like, so one full cycle now since like 2020. And throughout that time now we, you could argue if we're in a bull market now or if we're just starting or whatever. If it's a super cycle, it doesn't matter. We've got like one cycle under our belts. You've got, you've got a little more than that. So you've seen this multiple times. But the bear market just felt better. Like it was more. Like, it felt more somehow close knit. Like there was less infighting, there was more like fighting the external threats. It seems like once things get too good, it's like you look for problems, you know, you look for problems within and you fight within more. I don't know that. Just my perception. I don't know how you feel about it.
- [13:04]
Maddox
Well, the wealth also invites the scammers.
- [13:08]
Walker
Well said.
- [13:08]
Maddox
So you know, like it, it's very hard to scam in a bear market without like euphoria, right? Like the, the best, the best advantage a scammer can have is hope. So, you know, if things aren't looking hopeful, it's a worse environment. Because that's why where I see like the root of pretty much all, like, I don't pay too much attention to it, but the root of the fighting I see is, is like there's a gang of people trying to pull some scam on the noobs and the normies. And then the other side is people who have ethical standards being like, hey, fuck you. That's bullshit. But yeah, in the bear market, I mean it's much that, that's like all the kind of bloatware goes away in the bear market and you just have like the lifers, which, which is a lot of fun because. And it's really, it's really, I think when you really get bitcoin and there's like an 80% crash, it's like, fuck yeah. Like, this is sick. Because you know, we're. If the price goes down and you're unhappy, it just means you're lazy, right? You're not earning enough. You're not, you don't, you know, you don't have cash flow. You're not, right? And if you're smart enough to be in bitcoin, then you should be smart enough to be making fucking money. So like if you're pissed when the price goes down, like you're slacking, in my opinion.
- [14:47]
Walker
I am definitely not a trader. I'm trying to hold my bitcoin for the long term. And if you're like me, you need to make sure you keep that bitcoin safe by going to Bitbox Swiss SL Walker and using the promo code Walker for 5% off the fully open source Bitcoin only Bitbox 02 hardware wallet. Then get your bitcoin off the exchange and into your own self custody. Bitcoin is chopsolidating right around 100k. But we have companies, nation states and a whole lot of plebs like you and me who are stacking harder than ever. So it's going to keep ripping higher. But now is the best time for you to get your security locked down tight with Bitbox Plus. And I can't emphasize this enough, the Bitbox 02 is just easy as hell to use. Whether you're brand new to bitcoin. It's your first time setting up a hardware wallet so you're a little bit nervous. It's understandable. Or you are a well seasoned psychopath. You will have no problem with the bitbox and again it's fully open source and bitcoin only. But you don't have to trust me. You can go and verify that for yourself on their GitHub. When you go to bitbox Swiss Walker and use the promo code walker, not only do you get 5% off, but you also help support this podcast. So thank you. I like that mentality a lot. I think that's honestly spot on and it's going to become truer. Like it's already true. That's a fact. In my opinion, it's going to become even more true. I think as the years go on, as bitcoin is repricing the world, as it's getting more and more expensive in fiat terms. Right. You need to like to, you know, you need to keep up with bitcoin. You need to be producing a lot of value. Like you can't just be sitting on your ass doing nothing. Like you can if, like, if you already have a more bitcoin than you know what to do with. I'm super happy for you. Great. You know, like that's, that's awesome and like, good for you. You were smarter than I was years before I was. But that's not me. Like, so me, I, I need to make sure because I also have expenses, like a family and everything. And I need to make sure I create value and I need to create more than I consume. And it's a pretty simple thing. It's like you want to lose weight, you need to be in a caloric deficit. You need to be burning more calories than you consume. If you do that, you'll lose weight. If you're eating more calories than you burn, you're going to gain weight. With some weird little caveats and people get all triggered by this, but basically that's how it works. And it's the same thing with value. It's like you need to be creating value and if you are not, value is going to go away from you. Whatever value you've accumulated, you will lose it little by little. It'll be siphoned away. So it's like, yeah, I remember that, that dip down to. What did it get down to? Like 16k or something? Like it was like terrifying on the one hand because I bought all the way up to the like the tip of the, the tip of the tippity top, you know, because I was like, yeah, like it's Going up forever.
- [17:45]
Maddox
Same man. I thought we had finally made it. And I. To be fair, we probably would have, except if you know it. And that's like, every single one of these bare markets is caused by a scammer's project imploding. Every single one.
- [18:00]
Walker
So, you know, it's like, why can't they just, like, quit scamming and, like, I don't know, like, go do something worthwhile? Like. But scammers are always going to scam, right? Like, there's always going to be a percentage of, like, very intelligent people who have, like, zero moral compass. I mean, like, dare I say, like, 1% of the population is, like, clinical psych psychopathy. Like, they're literal psychopaths. They can't feel empathy. I'd say, like, a lot of those scammers end up in that camp. Like, like, and maybe that's giving them too much of, like, an out. Like, they could just be shitty people, fully capable of feeling empathy, but they're just pieces of shit.
- [18:35]
Maddox
Yeah, well, I think. I think they lie to themselves mostly, is what I find. Yeah, right. Like, I. I've been around for a long time and could have gotten involved in all kinds of crazy shit, and every once in a while I'm like, maybe it'd be nice to have, like, 200 million bucks stashed away. But I. What I realized, especially on this recent trip to Vegas, I got invited to this. Well, I didn't get invited. I snuck in, actually, to this crypto thing that was in, like, this penthouse bar, and I just, like, you know, there was, like, probably 70 prostitutes in there. And, like, I just felt so fudgeing bad for these guys. I was like, you know, the thing with, like, if you're. If you're a bureaucrat or political or, you know, a scammer or from. From any of this, like, looting and leeching class, you don't produce anything. So if you don't produce anything, then the only thing you can do with the money you have is spend it. Like, you can't make anything. So, like, what. What are your options? Like, you can buy Ferraris, you can buy prostitutes, you can buy drugs, you can go fucking gamble. Like, you run out of stuff to do, like, really quickly. And I think that's why a lot of these people who end up with all this money are depressed, man, because, like, they didn't get it by using their productivity. They got it through treachery and trickery. And then so, like, once you have, like, the whole in. In my mind, the whole Fucking purpose of money is to build, is to make. And if you don't have any fucking skills making, creating, like money's pretty fucking useless in, in a lot of ways, right? Like, and, and the more and more you make, like, the more useless it can kind of become. I think it, it you. I don't think you can be happy with hundreds of millions of dollars unless you have the ability to create.
- [20:39]
Walker
I couldn't agree more. It's like money buys a lot of things. It doesn't buy purpose, like, it doesn't buy fulfillment. Like quite, quite the opposite. Like if you get money through ill, you know, if they're ill gotten gains, like it's hollow, right? Like, and as much as you lie to yourself, like your subconscious knows again, unless you're a psychopath, in which case, yeah, good for you, go yourself. You don't care about anyone, so I don't care about you. Like rotten hell dude, don't care. But like for a non psychopathic person, your subconscious knows the truth. It knows that you didn't get that get what you have through any sort of actual constructive value adding behavior. You got it through extractive parasitic behavior. And however much you lie to yourself, however many things you spend money on, nothing's going to fill that gaping void left by a lack of real purpose. Because I think like real fulfillment comes from creating things of value, from building things up, not from leeching off of them. And it's like to your point, it's like, yeah, money is great, but the means matter when it comes to the end. The ends don't really justify the means if the means are shitty. Okay, yeah, you got to the end you wanted, but is that really what you wanted? Or did you want to actually feel good about yourself and feel fulfilled and be able to keep building things? Like, I don't know, there's a lot of leeches out there. There's a lot of parasites.
- [22:10]
Maddox
Yeah, I mean the nightmare would be to like make it and then have nothing to do, right? Like that'll never happen for me, man. Like, Yeah, I got $1 billion to allocate. I know exactly what the fuck to do with it. Now if you want to talk about returns, I don't know about that, but I can tell you I can spend that billion very well and make a lot of very cool stuff. You know, I also found like recently because like I've been in pursuit of wealth all my life and one thing I found recently is that I think that the scarcity actually helps you make decisions on what's important. I think if you just have billions of dollars, it's really hard to decide what to do because you don't. You don't have that. Like. Like, when you're building wealth, if you make a mistake, then it's like, a lot. Just the stakes are so much higher for the decisions that you make on, like, what to. What to build, what to create, what to do, what to invest in, what. And if you just have billions of dollars and you, like, lose 10 million here or 100 million there or whatever, like, the stakes are just so low. So I can imagine it being like, I don't fucking have that money, so I have no idea.
- [23:24]
Walker
But.
- [23:24]
Maddox
But just when I look out into the world and I see how much wealth supposedly people have and how, like, there's a massive shortage of really fucking crazy dope stuff, like, there's got to be some kind of fucking disconnect happening, you know? So I think that, like, because, ton. Tons of people are, especially in this bitcoin world, like, you get into this on this pursuit to become wealthy and all of that, but, like, it's the hardship and the struggle and the process of creating the wealth that signals, like, what values most to you and what you care most about. So I think that I'm personally very grateful for where I started and where, you know, I'm working to get and, you know, skipping that step by, like, doing a fucking ICO or an NFT or ordinal scam. Like, you know, you just. You just lose so much important data, so much important feedback, and, you know, it could be just totally. It's like. And then especially you'll lose it really quickly, I think, as well. Like, lottery winners, a lot of times they win the lottery, get a shitload of money, and it's just fucking gone a few years later. And I think that's because the process of creating wealth is the same tools, the same skills that allow you to. To preserve it.
- [24:53]
Walker
I think. I think that's. That's spot on. And I want to. I want to get into that a little bit about the whole, like, the NFTs and everything, because, like, actually, maybe first of all, like, we should take just, like, one step back. Just for folks that don't know you, I'm always bad at giving introductions, so, like, I'd rather you just do it. Like, who. Who are you? Medics? How did. How did. How did you get here to be this hardcore bitcoin, you know, psychopathic bitcoin artist or psychopathic artist who also likes bitcoin? I don't want to, I don't want to pigeonhole you with just bitcoin art, you know. How did you get here, man?
- [25:26]
Maddox
Well, I'm a maker, I'm a designer. And I wanted meaning in my life and I wanted meaning in the stuff I made and designed. And I wanted to. I want to make a contribution to other people's lives in the same way as those before me made a contribution to mine. And I discovered bitcoin along the journey of trying all kinds of stuff and realized it was the. When we look back on history, there will be the wheel. And then I don't. I don't even think, well, I think bitcoin is so significant that we won't even mark like the creation of money as like an important time in human history. I think that bitcoin will be the marker of the creation of money. So I think it's like just. I think we've all won the fucking lottery to be born at this time where the effort, like the work we do now is going to echo for 10,000 years in the bitcoin space. You know, there's just nothing that will. That has such an insanely crazy impact on civilization. So, yeah, so that's what got me really fully into bitcoin. And yeah, so. And then I. Along that journey, I met Francis Pouliot, the founder of Bull Bitcoin. And it was just at the right time where he wanted to create Bull. And I was friends with Dave Bradley and Dave Bradley was co founding with it and the whole like, plan for Bull came together and I was just in the right place, right time with the right skill set to come on and create the brand. And. Yeah, so I guess this is a long and rambling story, but like, I make stuff, I'm a designer and I contribute to bitcoin through my art, which the goal around the whole art and the whole Madex brand is to kind of make bitcoin cool, make Austrian economics cool. Because, you know, really that, I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing cool about like being a commie, that's for sure. And yeah, and I don't know why. Well, of course I know why. But I mean, it's just crazy to me that people get so sucked into that when we have so much talent, so much ability in ourselves. Like, I look at these fucking hands and I'm like, the things that these can fucking do is so crazy. Like, everything you see in the world came from these two little tools, right? And to be like, oh, somebody else should do it for me is just like so fucking lame. So anyway, that's my long and rambling story, but I make fucking amazing shit. I'm on a trajectory to build a huge fucking brand. I want to go absolutely like Saint Laurent level with it. Anchored in bitcoin, funded by bitcoin, supported by bitcoiners and essentially like Bull and Mad X together are like. And especially made X this like just giant fucking Trojan horse project to onboard as many fucking people as I possibly can. And so, you know, the goal with the brand and the reach with Bull. Like when we just launched in Europe and we had like a bunch of people contacting us or talking to us like when we were in Prague and being like, so you guys like a fashion company like is is Bull like and you know, meanwhile bu the industry standard leader for bitcoin engineering in the world and like the most technical savvy project I think there is. And making it cool allows people to like discover like all the insane stuff that we're doing. And. And yeah, so that's the goals. Just reach, reach people with, I guess what it means to have a bitcoin life and to be powered by bitcoin. And yeah, on board for, you know, the changes I think many of us are aware are inevitable at this point. But like, it still takes work. It's not like the Michael Saylor thing where okay, everybody, don't worry, it's just going to happen. It's like, no, we actually have to build it. We have to build the infrastructure, we have to build the marketing, we have to build the brand and like the brand of bitcoin, like that. That's what I really want madex to contribute to is just the. To, you know, the way the bitcoin brand was done was perfect from the beginning because like it kind of had to be a little bit like Fisher pricey because otherwise it may have been taken more seriously earlier. And you know, there was a really long period of time where bitcoin could have failed very easily if, you know, the banksters and the fiatters were paying more attention. But now we're in a really great position and I think the overarching goal for the whole thing is we have to get as much fucking talent into bitcoin as possible. And so those are my goals and what drives me and yeah, fuck yeah, man.
- [31:15]
Walker
Can I ask you, you know, what do you think is the, let's say the true brand of bitcoin? Like the non Fisher pricey, the not. Not what it. Not what it is presented as so far. What is this? The under the surface, like the. What is the subversive brand of bitcoin in your mind?
- [31:33]
Maddox
Well, I mean, if you're running bitcoin, it means you can do what you want, when you want, with whoever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want, right? It's like a. You know, it's a ship, right? And all the components, like Madex Bull bitcoin, like, you know, even. Even tether, like all the crypto crap, like all the podcast, like, everybody who is fucking bringing some kind of attention to bitcoin, that's like, just all stuff that's out there happening. It's like what bitcoin needs. Like, even like the scammers in a lot of ways. Because, like, you know, that. I think. I think everybody gets scammed at some point in their bitcoin journey. And I think that the sooner it happens, the better, because that's like, what ultimately leads you to understanding, like, why bitcoin is the only application of blockchain and the only cryptocurrency. But, like, what. What. What bitcoin to me is. Is a ship. It's. It's just total freedom.
- [32:43]
Walker
I mean, I like that. And like, all aboard at the. You know, all aboard this fucking ship. Like, you know, like, you should get aboard. Most people won't. And that's the thing. It's like, doesn't. We can't save everyone. That's a realization. And obviously I'm not the first person to say that, nor will I be the last long in a list of people saying you can't save everyone, but it's true. And I think that's a realization a lot of people come to once you've spent a little bit of time in bitcoin. And again, I still consider myself, like, early. Like, I'm still early in my bitcoin journey. I know fucking nothing. I'm like, I'm still a sponge. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and trying to do whatever I can to spread that good word, to spread that gospel, you know, to spread that truth however you want to say it. But, like, man, it's funny because you. If you didn't know any better and you just were hearing about bitcoin for the first time right now and, you know, been living under a rock for a while, but a lot of people have, because they pay attention to the Real Housewives of Whatever and whatever sports team. There's no nothing wrong with that. Do whatever the fuck you want to do with your life. But if you're just hearing about bitcoin now and you've been kind of asleep and you now hear about this thing where it's like, you're hearing about it in the context of corporate treasuries and the US Government legislation and all these different things, you may have a really distorted view of what bitcoin is. Like, what bitcoin really is, what bitcoin really means. And maybe that's okay, too. Maybe that's just, like, a natural part. Maybe it's necessarily true that you need, like, you only need a certain small cohort of people to really understand the truth of something in order to make that truth into a reality. Does that make sense? Like. Like, we're never gonna ever. Everyone is not gonna be a fucking toxic bitcoin maximalist. It's just not gonna happen. It's not possible.
- [34:34]
Maddox
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's like. Well, first of all, I would say to everybody, especially anyone who's new, is like, don't waste your time on anybody who's not. Who's not interested in what we're up to. I mean, like, it's so fucking crystal clear that bitcoin wins at this point. That, you know, just. Just. The only people I spend time, like, sharing bitcoin stuff with are people who are actually curious and interested, and they want to know and they're willing to listen. I like, say, like, you got to watch out for the. The. Well, actually, people. Because it, like, they just say so much complete. It. It. It's the Brandolini law thing where it just takes a huge amount of energy to refute the. And if they say something dumb like, you. Every single stupid thing that somebody says about bitcoin has, like, they're missing entire, you know, segments of data that just cannot be filled in a conversation at the bar or at Thanksgiving dinner. It's just like, okay, you, like, the main thing being like, you don't fucking understand what money even is in the first place. And, you know, like, nobody's worth talking to if they don't know how actually. Like, how money actually works. And then tons, tons of like. I feel like over the years, there's been this weird desire to, like, get the suits in because maybe, I don't know. I can remember a time in my life where I felt very embarrassed about, like, skipping out on university. I could have had a very glamorous university career, we could say. And I. And I chose not to do that. Choose. Chose to just make my own way. And I think that like during that time when I would meet like people who did do the university thing and went down these trails that lead to like all these financial instruments and is that it was almost like you want their approval for some reason. It's like you want them to be like, oh yeah, you were right about the bitcoin stuff. But like, dude, you just get so wealthy from the bitcoin that like it doesn't matter. Like do you do, do you care about. I think in the beginning when you're building, it's like you want like reassurance on your investment or something and you think because somebody has a university degree that they actually know dick about shit. But they don't, they don't know anything. They're programmed with the Keynesian stuff. And on top of that, especially in Canada, like all the insane communist propaganda and. Yeah, I don't know, I think just when you're young you want to like prove yourself to the world and you're looking for all this like supportive feedback but like one or two cycles with bitcoin and like, you know, hopefully, hopefully just the fact that you're, you've 10x net worth is enough that you don't need to do. Like I'm really disgusted by the suit simping. I would like it to stop. Like I'm, I'm a suits last supporter. I don't, I don't want any old money coming in into bitcoin that. Well, old money if earned, earned ethically is fine, but like I don't want any of that crap here, man. Like all they do is fucking use big words and fucking sophisticated complex sounding crap to like sound like they're smarter than you and that you need to hire them to do something that you could just do for yourself. And like all of Fiat obviously is set up to support that because of how complicated they make it. And now you got to spend like half your time just trying to outrun inflation. But yeah man, like suits last. Like fuck them. They had their time, they made all this money. And like how money is supposed to work is that like the person who has the fucking most money is the person who's most valuable to society. And when the government is printing money and the money is broken, what happens is the people who are the least valuable and the most skilled at trickery and deception and fraud and basically end up rising to the top. And so like you got girls going around right now and they'll go out to the bar and they'll meet a guy who's like an H VAC person and they'll be like, I don't want to talk to you. But then they meet some guy who's an investment banker, you know, vice president, right? Because there's fucking a thousand vice presidents at every bank. And you know that guy does not produce anything, right? And so I think all of that is just like totally societally screwed up. And you know, my hope is that my focus is to onboard everybody that supports my life and what I need. So stuff I need to maintain properties, stuff I need to maintain my home, stuff I need to operate my business, my daily day life. I want all the productive people to get bitcoin, understand bitcoin and save in bitcoin. Because like, I mean the road for an H VAC guy to have a Ferrari collection is like really, really, really difficult. Whereas investment banking, you just got to suck dick up to a certain point and then it just opens up for you, right? And bitcoin will change that because all it's going to take is like, you know, for, for one company to be like, okay, like the H Vac guy or like an auto mechanic shop or any of these things that are actually fucking contribute to civilization to start accepting bitcoin. All the bitcoiners will go to their business because they'll be stoked to be able to like pay for their car with bitcoin. And then, you know, they can sell whatever percentage of it, but as long as they're saving it, like that amount of bitcoin will become the financier for everything that business and anyone connected to it does in the future. And you know that that's who I want to win, right? Like the heart, the heart of civilization, like the core ironman heart of civilization is the entrepreneur. If the entrepreneur is unhealthy, then everything else collapses, everything fails. And if the entrepreneur is healthy and supported and has an environment that they can create and build and contribute in, then that's what grows out into civilization. And, and bitcoin is that ship, that ultimate tool for the entrepreneur to put them in a position where they can conduct business without all of the fucking weight and all of the crap that comes from the fiat system and also the heavily over regulated crazy government system. And you know, it just free, frees, frees everything up. And I'm really excited. I remember for, for a long period, like we can look at our world right now and like, it's incredible what we've been like. Capitalism is so fucking powerful that like we haven't had it for like a hundred and whatever 25 years or something. We haven't had anything close to like real capitalism since the creation of the Fed, right? And look at what we've accomplished in spite of that. So it's very hopeful because imagine the world when we just fucking. Even if like just only 10% of the sludge was removed, imagine the efficiency like it used to be year over year over year, even in spite of all the crazy shit, it was like better and better and better, things got better. And then we just kind of hit this point where now like things are getting worse year over year over year and I just can't wait to fucking return. And I think it'll be powered by the. I don't think that, I don't think like the system is gonna change at all because obviously everybody in it is incentivized for it not to change. I think that entrepreneurs who onboard and use bitcoin are just going to build. We're just gonna build our own system. And people will transact in bitcoin world or they'll transact in fiat world and just obviously the world without all of the fucking garbage is going to do way better.
- [43:07]
Walker
First of all, fuck yeah. And second of all, I think that that's a really important point because this debate is always about like, oh, well, the Fiat's just like, are we going to, you know, fix the. We're going to fix the money, you know, but like, and that'll fix the fiat system.
- [43:24]
Maddox
It's like, yeah, well, the money, change the money.
- [43:26]
Walker
Yeah, it's like the, the money's already been fixed. Like, we already, like, bitcoin already fixed the money. Now the fiat system cannot embrace bitcoin fully because it would mean the destruction of itself. And as you exactly pointed out, it's like that, that won't happen. It won't destroy itself, at least on purpose. And that's why we have this parallel system of people who just freely and willingly say, yeah, I'm going to accept bitcoin. I'm going to value my time, my energy, my labor, my thoughts, my dreams, my hopes. I'm going to value all of that in bitcoin. I'm going to denominate it in bitcoin, and that's how I'm going to live my life. And the more people that move over to that system, move their time, move their energy, start thinking in that way, it sucks the energy out of that fiat system. And it's the parallel system that forces, forces, change on the existing fiat system. But again, still, the existing fiat system, it Just wants to perpetuate itself and those who benefit from it want to perpetuate it. It's going to stay as it is for the foreseeable future. In the meantime, things are going to get, I mean I'm very hopeful in the long term, extremely hopeful, so bullish on humanity's future. In the short term I'm kind of like things are going to get mega fucked and it's going to be not super pleasant for a lot of people in the world. And like, you better make sure you have your house in order and your shit shit on lock and like, hopefully you've got, you know, you've got some bitcoin and you've got some guns and you've got access to fresh water and like, because you just don't know what might happen, you know.
- [44:58]
Maddox
Yeah. And well, I mean like the. Either you will. There, there will just be the bitcoin class and people who operate on bitcoin, their lives just will continue to get better and we'll continue to get more organized and coordinate better and I'll just continue to grow. And I think on the fiat side like things are going to get really rough, but you know, we can, you can just leave wherever you are if you need to, if you really had to. And there are places that will become sort of, you know, the percentage of people, the, the, the highest percentage of people running bitcoin will be the, the places that end up kind of brain draining and kind of sucking everybody into. And like the more, the more the fiat world kind of blows apart, that'll free up a lot of like the, you know, state garbage that is preventative of a lot of like traveling to different places and things like that. So it's kind of like, I think it, I think about it like the, in Mexico you have the cartels and the government and so you have like this balance in a way where neither side really has the monopoly on violence. And so you have, everybody has a choice of whether they want to like live in cartel neighborhoods with paved roads and streetlights or if they want to live in government neighborhoods with potholes and you know, crack addicts. Right? And I think it's the same thing for, for bitcoin and, and fiat. You just. The way I see it, the way I hope is that you'll just have a choice and like it'll be kind of like an Elysium thing, right? Which sucks. But like, hey, if you don't like it in fiat world with one simple trick you can switch over and so long as you like, I think every single fucking person listening to the show, every person in fucking bitcoin, needs to be developing their fucking skills and developing their talents and developing their brain. And like you said, like we said earlier, like, get good at providing value. And I find a lot of guys, like, are like, there's a huge push from people who are new to want to get involved and like, do something in bitcoin. They want to do something bitcoin related. But, like, if you're already like a master woodworker and now you want to, like, leave your job, woodworking to go and start a bitcoin podcast, like, that's probably not a good idea. Like, just get fucking way better at woodworking. Because, for example, I have the intention to build mad X mansions, crazy wild homes one day, and I'm gonna need talent for that. I'm gonna need super skilled woodworking people to come in or, or name whatever the trade is. And you know, especially the name of the game is like, in my opinion, it's like, you know, obviously you want to do something that you, that you enjoy and that you care about, but I think when you build a skill in something and you get better and better and better at it, that that makes you care about it and makes you love it. Like, everything I love about myself is the stuff I'm good at. Everything I hate about myself is the stuff I'm bad at. And I'm just like, constantly trying to, you know, get better at what I'm good at and like, not try to worry less about what I'm. What I'm bad at. Like, shipping made x art 10 stars. Madx customer service 1 star. But, you know, I'm finding people who can help me, like, where I fall short. And anyway, so like, my, my summary on that point being, like, whatever it is you're already good at, like, just get fucking better at it. And like, if you're bored, it probably just means you're not trying.
- [49:24]
Walker
Honestly, it's. It's good advice. I'm curious too, just on the topic of, okay, artists, woodworkers, like, which is a form of artisanship, right? Do you think we see a. Does this parallel system that bitcoin has enabled, does this, does this generally force or encourage a return back to like, true artisanship? Back to a true. Not just like, as a hobby, but like, as a profession, as a class of people. That's like, like, because I feel like that's like something we've lost and like, we can get into kind of like fiat art. A Little bit, a little bit later, which I'd love to, but like, do you think we see a return to that? Like, do we see a return to even like patronage as a, to support artists and artisans? Like, is that something we start to see, come back as people amass these large fortunes and say like, yo, I love what like MADX is doing. I just want to give him like some bitcoin, no strings attached to like keep doing that. Like, because this is how like the Renaissance, like that's what the Renaissance was, was a bunch of people that had a fuckload of money saying, yo, I like this da Vinci guy, we should give him a shitload of money so that he can just focus on doing whatever the fuck comes into his mind and that's it. And like, he doesn't have to worry about like stupid shit, like having a boring job. Like he can just make shit. Like, do you think that comes back? Is it starting to already?
- [50:42]
Maddox
Yeah. Yes, it comes back. I mean, fuck, send me 100 bitcoins and find out, right? Like it's, it's. I have some fucking crazy, you know, and I'm building towards it. It's going to happen inevitably, but that's what we want to unlock for, for anybody, right? Like the most common thing we see in FIAT is the master oil painter is working as a clerk in a legal office. The, you know, the master fucking carpenter is working as a framer. Like somebody who can sculpt anything out of fucking wood to extreme detail is working, framing. Like trailer homes basically at this point, that's all they're building in Canada, by the way, trailer homes. Even like the crazy luxury mansions, they're all just stick builds. And you know, like bitcoin makes you think about the future and it makes you think about being awesome and leaving stuff that's fucking awesome. Because I mean, like, look at what previous generations left for us. That's fucking incredible. And like, isn't exciting, Isn't it exciting to have the potential to do the same? And you know, like, when I'm looking to build something just because of what bitcoin has done to my mind, I want it to last into the future. I want it to go to my children. I want it to be generational. Like, I think like, I really, really, really believe in generational wealth and, and having something that you care about that, you know, a hundred years from now you, one of your descendants will have like that pocket knife or that backpack and the same thing. And I think that's really fucking cool. Like all the stuff I'm sure everybody feels the same way. I would guess. Like, all the things I value the most are the things I have from my great grandparents. My grandparents. And. And, you know, particularly since losing my dad, like, my dad, like, my favorite fucking jacket in the whole world is my dad's old jacket, you know, and there's just like, there's so much value that can go into things from just like the story of life. And if that thing is shit, then the story goes with, with the object as well. Right. Like, luckily, like, the coat I'm particularly thinking about for my dad, like, it was made in a time where this thing was built to fucking last. And, like, it'll last my entire life. It'll last my future son's entire life. It will just continue to get passed down year over year over year. And, you know, that is important. I think, I think that something that Fiat has really attacked is our heritage and where we came from. There's this super disconnect between, like, us today and our ancestors. And it's kind of like, you know, instead of thinking about our histories, we are on Instagram, which is an awful waste of everything. Right? And so I think that the ability and like, obviously when, especially when it comes to art, like, what I'm. What I'm selling is the most luxurious fucking item that you could possibly fucking buy. It is the most like, of if anything fucking goes wrong in an economy, like, art is the first thing that stops getting made, and that's in these boom and bust. But, like, when we switch to a bitcoin standard, we don't have those anymore. We just have up and up and up and up, better and better and better and better and more and just like it. If everybody's becoming wealthier, like, just imagine the possibilities that are out there. Like, I'm super motivated with madex for people to see what I'm doing, and it lead them to have the courage to develop whatever their, like, base talents and abilities are for themselves. Because, like, I make fucking amazing shit. But, like, I also really appreciate amazing shit. And when I look at my own stuff, I don't. I don't. I don't like it really. You know, like, I like it. It's cool. Obviously I'm making it for myself. But the experience of, like, when I meet someone who's making something, that's fucking crazy, you know, I want to be able to make acquisitions and do support and I want to support artists and creators and stuff as well. So I want as many creative people as possible to be well funded. And I think, I think it's happening across the board. I think that it. I think we're just too early in the bitcoins right now. I think there will be like this moment where the cash will just be like, the value of the coins will just be so fucking crazy that it'll just start happening. And I'm not really sure we're there yet. I think that, like, even some of the people I know who are like secret billionaires are not spending right now. They're still in hodl mode, which is great because, like, I want. I want, you know, anarcho capitalists to be the wealthiest people in the world. And so the more wealth that they can build the bet, the better that is for everybody. But I think that the time is coming at some point where it'll change and there will be a lot more investment into the creative side of things. And also, like, it's important to do it fucking now because, like, if Matex wasn't funded, then I just wouldn't be here. I would go and, you know, be working in the fucking oil rigs or something, like where I started. And thanks to the support I've had in bitcoin, like, I'm able to focus entirely on creating the best possible fucking artwork that I possibly can and finding people who are insanely talented and assembling teams and figuring out how to develop stuff and figuring out how to scale and expand. And like, all of that is done from the support right now. A very small amount of people that like, really believe in what I'm doing and have supported me in kind of the same way that you've described. And like, if. When you see talent in the world, if you don't support it, then you are condemning it because. And. And a lot of the attitude is like, okay, well, I will. I'll do this when coins are X amount or whatever. But like, if. If you just let all the creatives fucking die, then when the time actually comes and we're at a hundred million dollar coins, there's going to be nobody to do the work. Right? It's like a garden. It has to be grown, like, you know, or crop. You have to cultivate it and water it and grow it over time and like, have to ensure that if you want to spend your bitcoin on really fucking amazing shit in the future, like that, that's the whole goal, I'm assuming. Hopefully. Can't just huddle until you die. That would be pretty whack. You know, it's like to have Access to people who have those fucking skills. Like we talk a lot about when we look into the past and see all these crazy things that they've made and they're like, oh yeah, well like with technology today you can't do that. And it's because like we let those tradespeople die. And that, that's really the huge super mega destroyer. When you imagine like the destruction that printing money actually has on a civilization, it's like not just a loss of wealth, it's a loss of everything that fucking comes out of wealth, which is the most important asset, human creativity. So I think the change will happen. I think that anybody who's in that like thousands of coins kind of situation, call me and let's fucking make some things happen. Because, you know, the, the more energy I can take in and then allocate then like the farther all of this can go. And really success is like this massive. It's the main driver to get involved in anything. And so like success stories. I think already madex is looking really good. And it's like, okay, well how did all that start? And it's like, well, it started in bitcoin. Like he had a skill, he brought it to bitcoiners and bitcoiners invested in him to define and build and cultivate that skill and get better and better and better. And I want to show the world that bitcoin is a place that you can bring your wares and bring your talents and receive support and that that's also why I'm like super critical on stuff that like, I have Canadian fucking blood in me. So I'm like overly kind. But like, I would like to get even more ruthless on things because like my primary message is just like fucking do, do better. And like, even if you already think you're the best, like do better man, do more. And like level up and scale up and just. I don't want to give out any praise for stuff that is not reaching like what I see as like a minimum standard for greatness. And I want to see more like the best possible thing I could see happening is that like 10 years from now there's like somebody who's like the new mate X or something that's making just like totally insane, crazy stuff. Hopefully I can find them and hire them at Madex before they bust out on their own. That would be fucking sweet because that's ultimately what I want to do is build a team of artists and artisans and creators. Like the long term goal for madex is to be like A design firm and be like, okay, we're building this hydroelectric dam and we want it to reflect how fucking cool it is. You know, it's not just about making bitcoin fucking cool. It's about making all the things that fucking power are that are. We cannot survive without fucking cool. Like the oil daring love that, you know, I want, I like when you walk to a fucking drill site, I want it to feel like a cathedral. Like we should honor the. These things with the same energy that we put into honoring, you know, honor the motor and honor the gear and honor the hydroelectric dams and whatever other crazy fucking amazing stuff we build. Like it should be. I think these tools should be really well respected. And I think right now they're just the bare minimum because, like, you know, of all the fiat forces and also, like, you know, everything's got to be cost competitive and all that kind of stuff. But when the oil companies become insanely fucking wealthy because they're converting a lot of their oil profits into bitcoin, why not make the derricks fucking look like cathedral spires, right? Like, obviously with function in mind as well, but like, why not have. Have them have that inspiration? And I think it's already there. Like when I go and look at pump jacks and things, like, I just think they're beautiful. And like when I look at engines, I just think it's just. There's just such spirit in them. And I would like to see more love and more care put in into all of these, you know, technologies that drive us, brings more people in, makes more people more. It makes people proud of what they're doing. I think.
- [63:19]
Walker
Let me ask you, this is something that I think about a lot, which is just like the what is downstream versus upstream of what. But in the context I want to talk to you about, it's like when it comes to art versus culture, is art upstream of culture? Does the art create the culture? Does the culture create the art? How do you look at this? As somebody who is an artist, I feel like you are uniquely positioned to speak on this with some authority. How do you view that?
- [63:53]
Maddox
Well, like, they. We need each other fair. And you know, I think the culture that like the culture fuels the art because, like, it generates patrons for the artisans and the creators, and then the art itself, like, inspires more people to be involved. Do you think so?
- [64:25]
Walker
Like, the art is a rejection of culture, though. Like, it's. It's a reject. Like, like a lot of what, like what you do, the art you create is a rejection of fiat Culture, it's a com. Like, it's the complete opposite. Like, is. Is that part of the equation as well? Like the. Maybe, like the culture can fuel the art, but also the art can be a complete rejection of that culture, you know? Do you know what I mean? Like, because that's. When I look at your art, I'm like, it says fuck fiat to me. Like, I love that.
- [64:55]
Maddox
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's. I mean, I think that people just like, the thing about capitalism is that it's natural. It's just what happens. It's just emergent from what we are. But the problem with capitalism for people who are bullish on slavery and global domination is that it makes that impossible. And the. It's been extremely well financed, which is like, why I think it's become so strong. But it's not natural, right? Like, these commies, like, I, we give them all a hard time, but at the end of the day, like, why they're such losers is because they're not reaching their potentials. They're not becoming who God wants them to be. And they're using every possible thing as an excuse to be the reason why they can't fulfill themselves. And like, the answer is that fulfillment. And, you know, walking the path to become yourself is hard, really hard work. It's really, it's a, it's an odyssey. It's the odyssey, right? It's difficult and it's taxing and it's painful and it's, you know, at what, no matter where you are in civilization, like, if you're walking that path, coming from nothing or from a wealthy family or whatever it is, it's hard and it takes courage to like, to answer the call and. Because everything that the state and fiat does is to stimulate dependency. You know, it's really, it just makes it. The whole system is set up to make it easy to like, not reach higher. And, you know, creating the life that you want to live is made entirely possible with capitalism. And I think just because, like, really what happened is we lost control. Like, I'll say we capitalists lost control of the money and that's why we ended up in this situation. But now control is back and it's set up like if the founding fathers had Bitcoin, we would be living in a completely fucking different world than we are today, you know, and we can just like, okay, we like with everything. You try and then you make a mistake, and then you try again and then you make a mistake and you learn. And it's not failure unless you're learning, even though it's painful, right? It's like, okay, usa like what. I'll say America. Like, what it means to be American. We can just try that again and this time with bitcoin. And so, you know, like, what I want to do is just all. All of my art and all the work I do with bull to just push America as, like, the dream that, like, you know, make. Makes you em. And get rid of all this other crap, man. Like, nobody should be living in that box.
- [69:14]
Walker
Amen. And, like, I mean, this is coming from a Canadian too, so, you know. You know, it's not just one of us brainwashed Americans saying it, but, like, man, I fucking love talking to you, first of all, because, like, your passion is evidently, like, real. Your art is real as fuck anybody who's seen it. And if you. If you're listening to this and you haven't checked out Maddox's art, like, please go do so, because it will make you feel something. Like, this is what the world needs more of. Like, it needs more of that. Like, that fire and that absolute 100% refusal to compromise. Because I feel like that's what fiat forces a lot. It forces compromise. Right. Well. Well, I'll just. I have to do this because this is just the way things are done. Or I have to do that because, well, if, you know, if I don't, I'll get in trouble. And it's like all of these things that just go against our nature as free beings. And my hope is that bitcoin brings some of that back. And I think you're right about this. American idea, right? Or idea or ideal, whichever way you want to slice it. Like, it is something that's really powerful. And it was infectious, right? It was really, like, once it caught hold of people, they couldn't. They couldn't help it. Like, this was. Freedom is like the. Well, I should say America was. Was an incredible meme. Like, it was a strong meme. Like, we need, like, bitcoin is arguably a stronger meme in many ways because it's global in real time. Like, America, the meme of America was not global in real time. It took. It eventually was. It eventually became so. But it took some time to propagate. We didn't have the information channels that we did. Now we do, and it's like bitcoin is everywhere all at once. That's super fucking powerful.
- [71:09]
Maddox
Yeah.
- [71:10]
Walker
And it's like we have this, like, I, I. You know, there's always that question, like, oh, you know, was I I feel like I was born in the wrong, the wrong generation or the wrong like I don't feel like that at all. I feel like my God, how lucky I am to be alive right now to, to at this brief window, this super brief window where we get to like be part of bitcoin becoming itself. Like how lucky are we?
- [71:40]
Maddox
Yeah, like, well and like when you say like the meme that the meme of bitcoin, it's like, you know like the United States has done a lot of really fucking insane shit in the name of like bringing freedom and democracy. But like we know that democracy is a scam but like the like what America like was pushing out into the world as, as like this capitalist based way of life that creates civilization and allows civilization to thrive at the highest degree. That's what bitcoins achieving right now internationally. And even just the idea like what the original American idea, the way I see it is that doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, what, what and like nothing about your class will say matters. What matters is your dedication to your craft. And that's what we celebrate here and now that, that, that's been like, it's the actual unleashing of it on the whole world which is, that is what I think bitcoin is. That is the culture that is developing around bitcoin is that same idea that doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, anything about you. What matters is the quality of your character and your dedication to your craft and your contribution of value to the world. And so you know, now we look at the earth and everywhere there's electricity. We have the ability to transact with bitcoin and we have mining happening and we have because huge surprise. People want and wish to be free. And you know, the power in that obviously is like inconceivable. And you know, it's taking time and it's going slowly and like again like people who produce create nothing. Getting involved doesn't fucking change anything, right? It's the people who actually shape the world and do the building and the entrepreneur that's that matters. Like the bitcoins need to go to the entrepreneurs and the bitcoins need to go to the financiers that are willing to finance entrepreneurs. The bitcoins should not be going to fucking giant Ponzi's, giant schemes, giant derivatives instruments, you know, all that fintech jargon. Like that doesn't achieve anything. Where what achieves something is that the people who make life better are funded and funded to the degree that they've earned and deserve.
- [74:50]
Walker
I think part of that too is like, that is what is happening and will happen naturally. And a lot of the financialization, let's say, of bitcoin was inevitable. On the one side, this was inevitable that the suits would come. It was inevitable that the governments would come, because that is a symptom of bitcoin being successful. Of course, everybody wants it. It's the best fucking. It's the only real money that has ever existed, is the best fucking money. However you want to say it. Like, Bitcoin is the paradigm shift. If it was a loser, if it was Ethereum, if it was whatever other shitcoin, then no, people wouldn't be flocking to accumulate as much as they can of it, right? But bitcoin is winning. And so, of course, necessarily everyone from the individual to the family to the community to the retirement fund to the corporation to the nation state, they are all going to want to acquire bitcoin. Now, at that same time, like those institutions which are not productive, like, and the government is, for example, is not a productive institution. It cannot be. It only has what it has because it exerts force. And we can argue about, well, what is the true purpose of government. In my. I take the view of Bastia, which is that the purpose of any purpose of the state is to enforce the law. The purpose of the law is to organize for the collective defense of private property. That's the only, that's the only purpose it serves, is to protect private property. And we know that our governments have become plunderers. They become vampires. They become parasites that steal the private property of their citizens under the threat of violence. And then now they're realizing, well, we can, we can use that to acquire more Bitcoin. And by the way, we print money out of thin air. Wow, what a, what a, what a game this is, you know, but, but I think in the long, in the long arc of history, the value still accrues to the people who create value like it. It must. Unless, and I like, I think that, you know, in the fiat system, that's not the case. But now we don't just have the fiat system, we have Bitcoin as well. If we didn't have bitcoin, we would honestly, we'd probably both be very nihilistic, but we have Bitcoin. So, like, we have some hope.
- [77:09]
Maddox
Well, it's a feasible option, right? Like, if we didn't have bitcoin, I'm pretty sure every single bitcoiner would be in some sort of spin off of like ira, right? Like we'd be strapping up because there would be actually no choice. There would, there would be no escape from the Fiat system other than violence. And like bitcoin is the only, the only peaceful way out. And like the major change with all these institutions and every, all these like fiat constructed people and companies and governments and all this crap is they can, they can make the shift and they can start running bitcoin and they, they, they'll have to at some point and there's going to be a lot of like really horrible communists that have a lot of fucking bitcoin and a lot of fiatters that have a lot of bitcoin. But the fundamental change is that now if you're, when running bitcoin there are consequences, two mistakes. And so that's obviously the major benefit of Fiat is that there's no consequences to anything. And if you're in that top class, there's just, there is no, there's no consequence to misallocation of funds in government. There's no consequence to misallocation of funds in private companies that are big enough that they are, you know, essentially own, owned by the state. So yeah, a lot, a lot like a lot of these institutions are going to end up with a lot of bitcoins. But the thing is, is that the unfair preservation of that wealth will no longer exist because somebody somewhere in one of those places is going to make a fucking mistake and they're going to lose the money and there's going to be no government to print them out of the mistake. And that is the most exciting thing. And why, why I don't stress at all if like governments are buying bitcoin, like I don't want it, it would be better if they didn't. But on a long enough timeline, somebody somewhere will fuck up and then that government company, individual will go bankrupt and they'll have to start over. Exactly how it's fucking supposed to be. If you make good decisions, you're supposed to do better in life and if you make bad decisions, you're supposed to fail. And finally we're going to have some fucking consequences and some fucking failures. And you know, even in terms of like jet, like in bitcoin we're talking a lot about generational wealth and like preserving wealth into the future and all that kind of stuff. The bitcoin is just one part of that fucking equation. You also have to create a family structure that ensures that the heirs will learn and earn the responsibility of protecting the wealth. And I don't like in my bloodline, if I don't do a good job of setting up my sons with a family structure, somebody somewhere is gonna fuck up and then all the wealth that I've worked so hard to create will be gone. As we've seen, you know, for example, with Vanderbilt or like many of these, like old American families that used to be so wealthy they just didn't have the structures in place. And with like Rockefeller and these guys who are all tied in with you know like the governments enable, they create monopolies, right? They're the only reason like monopolies don't exist in true free markets because eventually somebody will just take you out because they'll have a better product or better everything. Like it's just a constant war. And it's really the government that like in the name of preventing monopolies, that creates all of these monopolies. And a lot of these super old money families have had the benefit of being on the right side of those regulatory protections. And in the future, something scary for us to think about with our own families is we won't have regulatory protections to help preserve the wealth into the future. So it's really going to come down to like, what is the system that you design and put in place to ensure that like that your son will be able to handle the responsibility of wealth and will be able to transfer that responsibility to his son to the next one, to the next one, to the next one. So we get into this whole like, new area of constructive thinking around like the, the way a family is put together, which I find extremely exciting. So the long circle back on all of that is that like, you know, there will be consequences in the future because if you fuck up with bitcoin, there's nobody to bail you out. And that will make the world a better place in, in every way. It'll make families stronger, it'll make businesses stronger, it'll make governments, what, what hopefully smaller and also the stronger. Right? And hopefully put them in a position where they actually operate like a private enterprise and they understand that their product is providing a safe environment and the, as you said, the protection of private property for their citizens. And you know, we're gonna see, I think the whole world's gonna explode into lots of really small micro countries and it'll kind of be back to that board of like alliances and deals and this, that and the other. But it'll all be just like the, the violence Bitcoin extracts the violence of cooperate like the, the. The violence from. And forces cooperation. I should say that better. Like bitcoin encourages cooperation and extracts the violence from. From any situation of, of negotiating, which is really exciting because it's really hard to build when there's like buildings exploding and stuff being destroyed. Like, we want to avoid destruction at all cost and focus on creating.
- [84:11]
Walker
Hear, hear. And we also all need to. Bitcoiners need to basically preserve generational wealth like the Rothschilds, you know, like, like they, they. That's an. The talk about old money. Like fuck, they did it. Well, like let me put, you know, one of my sons in each of these countries to run one of their banks. And that way no matter who wins the war, at least we don't. We still gotta, you know, we banked both sides, so it's all good. And like, you know, but except bitcoiners are like not gonna be bankrolling the wars. It's like. So it's a slightly different paradigm but like boy, you know, Rothschilds, they sure they knocked it out of the park on that one. Like still just insane. Like the wealthy to the point where you. Most people don't know who they are, you know, like.
- [84:52]
Maddox
Yeah.
- [84:52]
Walker
Which is kind of what bitcoiners want, if we're being honest without all the other fucked up shit.
- [84:56]
Maddox
Yeah, that's true. I mean like they, they would.
- [84:58]
Walker
They.
- [84:59]
Maddox
I mean they succeeded because of violence, right? That was.
- [85:03]
Walker
Yes, undoubtedly.
- [85:05]
Maddox
And so the few for future for us bitcoiners, what we have to think about is like, okay, how do we build the same kind of wealth, protections and security and with violence no longer being a tool.
- [85:21]
Walker
That'S hard. But it's hard too. Like, it's hard because like we've been trained in this fiat system. We like, we have been trained and ingrained. Like this is what we like. It's the air we breathe, it's the water we swim in. This is just what it is. And to be able to take a step back and say, but it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be that. We just keep printing money to finance wars in deserts halfway around the world that none of us give a shit about and then creating more enemies out of those wars because, you know, we bombed the shit out of their whole family and now they're going to be strapping a bomb to their chest later in life and coming back like, like we can stop that because that's not productive. That's ultimately only possible because of parasitism. That's the only reason it's possible.
- [86:11]
Maddox
Yeah.
- [86:12]
Walker
And like, we. It's just crazy because, like, I also, I'm. I'm of the opinion, like, boy, we just need, like, give it another decade and a lot of these problems start to fix themselves because a lot of the people that are in power now have peacefully passed on to the next life. And, like, there are just so many old fucking evil people in the world right now who run most of the shit. And I wish them long and happy lives, but when they eventually make their, you know, pass on to the other side, when they cross the river Styx, I will not shed a tear. And I think that that's when we see a lot of actual change, because I think that's younger generation. We're fucking sick of it.
- [86:59]
Maddox
We're super sick of it. Super sick of it. And like, you know, the game has changed, right? Like, really, like what Rothschilds and all these other big families did is they just like, rinsed and repeated strategies from the past because without, you know, the name of the game has always been to kind of get control over the money. And that's what we saw in the collapse of Rome, obviously, the. The best example. And. But now, now, like, it's a new game. It's fully. It's fully new. All the strategies to win are completely different. And so it's. We don't know what it'll look like. It'll be a completely different world. But none of, like, the power structures are going to operate in the same way that they have been. And I think that, as I said earlier, like, and most of us who have been here long enough understand, like, now the most powerful piece on the board is creativity. It used to be violence and now it's ideas. And that just unlocks, like, the total. The full potential, I think, of all of mankind.
- [88:21]
Walker
Let me ask you. This is something I wanted to get into with you, and I think this is a good time to do it. Just speaking of this creativity piece, you are an incredibly talented artist. You have not sold your soul to shill NFTs or anything. You make physical, real art. You're a fucking badass dude, if I do say so myself. And you also.
- [88:44]
Maddox
Thank you.
- [88:45]
Walker
You're welcome. I mean, thank you for what you do, man, because I think, like, we need more people doing this, right? We need more people who are uncompromising in what they do and who make real things. I'm really curious where you see AI play in this. Like, is this something that you mess around with in what you do? Because you obviously create a Lot of like, different types of art, right? You create a lot of different composite works and all these different things. Like you. You leverage a lot of different mediums, everything from massive painted pieces to beautiful pieces of jewelry and everything in between. Is this something that you leverage all. Is this something that you also worry about at all in terms of sapping the creativity out of a generation? Because I think AI is a tool like anything, right? It's like a gun. You can use it for good things, you can use it to procure food for your family, or you can use it for not good things. Like how do you see, how do you look at AI as an artist, as a maker, as a real creator? How do you look at it?
- [89:53]
Maddox
Well, I think it's great. And the reason is because it raises the standards for everything. And it also is a marker for what's important. Because the amount of resources required to create something that is not AI is so much greater. It means that whoever is pushing that into the world has to care about it that much more. Like that. How the AI works is you can have the most sophisticated manufacturing possibility in the like conceivable. You can have the most. You can have the ability to make anything. You can build that. We've got the tools, making the tools. Tools are getting better and better. The hard part is, what do we make? What do I make? Like, if I. Like what I'm working on at Mad X is I want the fucking. Like when you start your shit and then you get a little bit better, and you get a little bit better, and you get a little bit better. And like, the better you get, the more you're able to bring capital, capital into your environment. And the capital allows you to improve your tools that you have access to and also improve your own skills. And it allows you to grow. So you kind of have to. Like, the way I see it, like the most. The most sophisticated laser engravers in the world costs like US$50,000. And you gotta like your ideas is what earns you the right to use that machine, to be able to create with it. So the AI is like, all the inputs have to come from somewhere. And it's only as useful as like the mind that that's driving it, right? Like it. It's just. It's no different than like a pen sitting there or a hammer and chisel sitting there or a rifle or, you know, any. Any other tool. It's like, what. What matters behind it is the idea. And so what I see AI doing is it's just gonna make original content that much more valuable. And it's gonna force every. Because we're gonna be in this like creative period where I think like, probably, I would guess for the next 10 years, you know, like, like creation in the first place. Like what I do is I have inputs from everywhere, from my day to day interactions, from the people in my life, from the information I consume, from the books I read, from the movies I watch, from the places I go, from the conversations I have. And I just take all of those inputs and then I like mix them up and, and then put something else out. So we're all just kind of taking in. I think the process of creating is you're just taking in information and then you're reworking it and then putting it out and then you're just iterating on that. And like right now that's exactly what AI is doing. It's just taking all of the resources available on the Internet and then it's just based off of your prompts, it's putting them together to try and like give you what, what you want, which can save a lot of time and which can help manifest a lot of ideas. So I think we're gonna see like a huge amount of just really cool stuff done and. But it'll all just kind of be reworking what has existed for a long time and like what's available on the Internet and that like eventually, eventually everything that we see coming out of AI will be like old in a way. Right? So it's going to require somebody making something and actually feeding that data into the AI, which by the way, I glossed over it for the sake of explaining the point is going to happen all the way along the road. People are going to come up with new stuff and be feeding it constantly so it'll be constantly able to create. But it's like the point being is that it requires the input inputs and it requires the ideas of what to make. And that's up to us. And so I think it'll just make whoever has the best ideas just do that much better, which is what we need. We need. The ideal situation is a competition of ideas of what makes the world a better place. And then we vote with our money on which ideas are the best and the ideas that are good survive and the ideas that don't, don't survive. And we just continue to grow. So I think it's really exciting and you know, I see it as I said, it's just, it's just a tool. What matters is the driver in the Same way as money is just a tool. Like, can have a hundred million bucks, what do you do with it? You know, you can have a. A huge amount of processing power in AI. Okay, so, like, how are you using it? What are you. What are you doing with it?
- [95:52]
Walker
AI doesn't turn a retard into a genius. Put a different way, you know, like, yeah, just, you know, it's like retard in, retard out. Like, that's what you're gonna get, you know, amplified, much more verbose. Retard perhaps, but retard nonetheless.
- [96:07]
Maddox
And. And it'll like all that retardation is going to broadcast and go, there's gonna be an insane amount of retarded shit. We're already seeing how much ret there is, which makes when you discover something sick, that much more valuable and that much cooler. So I think it's really good for anyone who's doing like, real work, who's doing really serious work, because garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage, garbage. Holy. Like, it. It just. It's so clear that it's something that. And it's a signal that it's something somebody cares about. Cares about enough to debt. Like, that was way back when I started doing the bitcoin art. I thought, like, I thought it was a great broadcast signal because when the normie person sees the dedication to the artwork and it's all honoring this bitcoin thing, that. That would be like a bridge for them to take it more seriously and be like, you know, and reveal that, like, really the killer app of bitcoin is that, like, I would give my life for its success, like, full stop. And being able to like, communicate that to someone who's like, what is it? You know, like, in the mess of everything in the world and then being like, wait a minute, like, all these people are ready to die for this thing. It must be. It must be serious.
- [97:38]
Walker
And. And yet so many are still asleep. They're waking up slowly, though.
- [97:44]
Maddox
They're waking up slowly. Netflix is like a $10 a month subscription. So.
- [97:52]
Walker
Man, you know, I. I wanna. I wanna be conscious of your time here, because I didn't even notice. We've been ripping for like 95 minutes already, which, like, time flies and you're having fun. I did want to ask you just like a little bit about just the. The. Your take on kind of like fiat art like that. This. Like. I think it's pretty clear for anybody who has gone down the bitcoin rabbit hole, maybe some tangential rabbit holes that like. Yeah, the reason that, like, there's a shitload of money laundering, like actual money laundering in the art market, in the fiat art market. Not like the money laundering Elizabeth Warren accuses, you know, shadowy supercoders of, but like actual money laundering by like a cartel of operators essentially. Like, how do you look at that? Is that something that just like, you just kind of ignore at this point, or is that something that, like, does that have an impact on. On your work? If, like, you've also, like, you have to resist that siren song of like, yeah, well, okay, my painting, you know, this guy wants to value my painting at this much for like, this reason and then resell to like, I don't know, it just seems like it's all such a. Like a. The fiat art market is kind of a gross business. Is that fair to say?
- [99:08]
Maddox
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just. It's evolved to serve Fiat. Right. It's this gray area where. Who are you to say what. What this is worth? And, you know, I don't really think. I don't think about it too much. Like, I. I really want to get into. You can kind of think about, like, the whole market as, like, in the core, there's all that, like, in the center, there's all this, like, really aggressive criminal activity happening. And when I say criminal activity, I mean like criminal in the eyes of the government because. Right. Like, it's. It's not really criminal activity in a way. Like, I think like being striving for tax efficiency. I don't believe that that's criminal activity. I think that's trying to not be robbed. Yeah.
- [100:10]
Walker
Fucked repeatedly every single year by the state.
- [100:13]
Maddox
Yeah. So, you know, but. So it's a difficult thing to like. But then on the edges, there is like, there's the reality of it, which is that, like this painting I have here, this is one of one. There. There will never be another one that ever exists. And I think just as humans, we like to have things that are rare, obviously, like our entire lives are like a push for scarcity. And in the face of fiat money, the one of ones become kind of even that, like the. Everything we understand about bitcoin scarcity applies to art. Like, there will be a supply cap on madex. Like I will die. And, you know, the artworks that I've facilitated the production of will not continue. However, I'm trying to set this up like a fashion house so that I can eventually pass like my artistic lead role onto somebody else who can then perpetuate it into the future. But the particular works from this era, like, each one comes with a block number, and that's the only one. Right. So obviously, when money is broken, a lot of things that are not money start to become money. And art is one of these kind of great stores of value for a lot of reasons in. In the fiat world. But, like, I think the main thing that I realized that was a little bit discouraging on my own journey is that I actually thought it was possible to sell like a $50 million painting as, like an entrepreneur and like you and have a painting that sells for 50 million. And it be like, I actually am buying this because I love the art and it's one of one. But then I kind of realized it's all. It's all like a club, and I'm not in it and probably never will be in it because the people who are running the club are also, you know, pulling all the levers on. In. In the fiat world. Right.
- [102:20]
Walker
So you're not Hunter Biden, you mean with. With his incredible art.
- [102:25]
Maddox
Yeah. So, you know, I. I want to get into the, like, the fiat art markets a million percent, because, like, on that outer ring, it is actually people who are looking for really awesome stuff and they want to, like, buy things as a store of value and all that. And like, and I think, like, I have the goal, which is, like, very difficult to reach, but, like, I have the goal that madex art can outperform bitcoin on a long enough timeline. And so, right. Right now I'm looking at getting into gallery distribution and, like, trying to find dealers that will represent me. And so, like, what people may not know about the art world is that it works very much like the music business. You have, like, producers and labels and all that kind of stuff, except their dealers and their galleries. And, you know, I want to expand out because I want people. I want it to be the work to be a Trojan horse into bitcoin. I also want to be better financed. And I want, you know, I want. I want it to be able to buy lots of bitcoin in the bear markets.
- [103:35]
Walker
Amen.
- [103:36]
Maddox
So. So I don't know if I. I'm really, like, giving a clear answer talking. It's kind of. It's a difficult thing to speak about because it's like, it all kind of just has this function which, depending on how you look at it, is good or bad, and depending on who's doing it is good or bad. And the one thing for sure is that the degration of quality in art comes from when all the art Prices started going crazy. All the dealers and galleries, they basically just had a shortage of good art, but there was huge demand. And so they were just finding people who made anything because it was like it didn't. The actual art didn't actually matter because it had become sort of a financial instrument. And so the name of the game for the galleries and dealers were to just find anybody who was good enough at all and prop them up to be able to do all this kind of financial chicory.
- [104:39]
Walker
I missed my chance to be a shitty fiat artist.
- [104:43]
Maddox
I mean, you still probably can, but I think like one of the main requirements is you got to go to Epstein island and things like that. That would be my guess.
- [104:51]
Walker
I'm out on that. I'm out on that.
- [104:52]
Maddox
I'm definitely out on that. And you know, but, but also like art getting shittier everywhere is like a demoralizing thing. It helps like the communist agenda. And then obviously in with, with no time horizon, the incentive is to have things produced as quickly as possible for as cheaply as possible. And making something look better, like you could argue, doesn't really matter when the money in your account is dissolving.
- [105:23]
Walker
So yeah, hate beautiful things. Communism must kill beauty. Like if beauty exists. Communism will not, will not thrive. For like, communism never succeeds, but it may thrive, thrive for a short time. But that's only possible when they destroy beautiful things and create brutalist, disgusting, inhuman aberrations.
- [105:45]
Maddox
And the reason they, they want, they, they, they end up wanting to destroy is because they just stop trying basically. Which I think is the most awful thing that can happen to a person is whatever they're doing, you know, and that's what the whole fiat system is set up for is like it's impossible to get ahead. So at some point you just stop trying and then you start to resent all the people who were able to like get, move forward. But I believe the environment that will come from Bitcoin will just make it that much easier for people to thrive in whatever skill, whatever skill it is that they have. And also, I mean the obvious thing is that market signals will be accurate. So you won't like accidentally invest your life savings into something that the market doesn't want because you're looking at incorrect data that's coming from totally irrational stocks or other totally irrational information. So like a free, a free market just means that, that resources are not are allocated property properly and the fiat market distorts all of that allocation and also central planning distorts that. And you know, anything collectivist communist distorts that it means that we end up with way more wood than we need rock, you know, or way more rock than we need wood. Like, it's just always wrong. So, yeah, I mean, like, I think that I have a lot clearer answers when talking about fiat art in person. And lately I've been. You know, there's. I was really bitter about it for a while, but now I just kind of see the whole thing as, like, an attempt to protect wealth, and I'm in favor of that. I don't think that wealth should be stolen.
- [107:39]
Walker
No. Honestly, you always surprise me, Maddox. That is a very nuanced view for somebody who is in this field. I also want to ask. So there was a question on Noster from somebody else who I assume is an aspiring artist. Tim Ridley, Art. If you've got art in the handle, I'm just guessing you're, you know, you're an artist. And he. And he wanted to ask you. He said, question. Do you have any suggestions for artists trying to grow an audience? I just started on Noster recently. Awesome, dude. That's me adding a side note, but that's great, dude. Are there any things you did when you were starting out with sharing work online? Sick art, by the way, man. There was a comma man there. I read that really weirdly.
- [108:23]
Maddox
But yeah, just get better. Like, just get better at whatever it is you're trying to do improve the. The anchor of it all is just the skill and developing the skill to be able to produce whatever it is that your. Your vision is. And wherever you lack in skill, finding people who can come in and fill the space to accomplish whatever the goal, the goal is, is. The thing is, is that, like, really what it all comes down to is marketing, and that's really hard work. But one thing that can make it a lot fucking easier is if the artwork is just fucking undeniable. And I like objectively beautiful work. And so I think, like, in terms of growing reach, the. The most important thing. And I'm like, speaking. I haven't seen anything you're working on. Who knows? But, like, are you proud of what you're putting out? And is what you're putting out something that you will hang in your own house and feel good about when, like, people come over and just get better at, like, reaching whatever. Whatever that is for yourself? Because the rest of it is just so much harder if you haven't mastered your skills. So I think that that's, like, the bet that would be the advice I give to anybody who's working on something. It's just like. Just fucking get really fucking good at what you're doing and at any cost and, you know, go apprentice under somebody. Go, you know, and. And like, you don't have to rush into like, being the brand right away. You can work under other. You can work in other companies, you can work for other artists. You can find a way to like, develop and improve your skills. And it fucking takes time. And it's hard. It's really, you know, I don't want to be discouraging, but like, it's fucking really, really hard. Like, I've been doing this pretty well all my life and seriously for like 13, as a serious commitment for 13 years now. And you know, there. It's just fucking difficult. So be ready for that, you know, and you got it. The thing is, is like, you got to really want it too. You got to really. Because you're never. You're never gonna outwork anyone who really loves and cares about what they're doing if you're not. If your heart's not fully in it. And you know, like, the thing. I think a lot of people get started into art because they like, think it. It's like an easy way to do it. Because in theory, like, when you talk about it in theory, it all like just kind of is very hopeful. But the reality is, is that it's like insanely competitive, insanely difficult, and you have to master your fucking skills while also operating a fucking business. And yeah, it's just fucking difficult. So, like, my. My advice to anybody is like, do whatever you're already good at to build as much fucking bitcoins as you possibly can. And either like, through that pursuit of excellent in. In that field you can find love in. In that area of work, or just build up enough capital to then be able to like, make the swap over and put yourself in a position that bitcoin can finance you over the years that you have to, you know, struggle.
- [112:40]
Walker
I mean, it's, it's. It's good advice. Last thing I'll ask you, which is another question from the chat from my friend Avi Burra, who was just on this show a couple days ago. Avi, don't worry, I'll release the episode soon. He was wondering when secession for. Presumably for Alberta. Any thoughts?
- [113:01]
Maddox
Yeah, I mean, it's looking promising, but I feel like kind of the same way as when you, you know, believing that like, the stripper is actually into me and maybe wants to like, have dinner tomorrow. It's the sort of kind of same Lead up, right? And you know, it's looking really good, but I, I'm bearish on the actual separation happening, which is like, I shouldn't be publicly stating it, but I'll just be honest because there's trillions of fucking dollars at stake. Like I don't think anybody on the outside understands how fucking rich Alberta has the potential to be. And even if we do everything fucking properly, the, like the federal, the federal government's just gonna say no. And it doesn't matter whether it's lawful or legal. Like what people have to understand is when you get to a certain fucking level of numbers, it's all Pablo Escobar. Like when you're at a certain level, there's no due process or anything. It's Wild west when you get into big numbers. And so that, that, that's what it'll come down to. I think at the end of the day it'll, it'll come down to everything being done properly, everything being done legally, everything good to go. We're fucking leaving. We're going to be independent Alberta. And then Ottawa will just say no and then back that with violence. And so Alberta has to have a plan for what to do when that happens. And historically, because this isn't the first time that separation has really charged up historically, when the feds say no, we just say, okay, well thank you for your time and go back to getting ass railed year over year over year and having the fucking futures of our children destroyed and the futures of present families eradicated by this fucking behemoth abuser of a state power. And until you know, something else happens. But I will say on a brighter side that this is the best setup we've ever had and that Alberta is polling, not that you can trust polls, but at 40% in favor of separation with no leadership and no party. So, you know, the thing that could be really amazing is that some sort of Napoleon figure emerges from Alberta to really say you and really back that, you know what I, what I would like to do if I had more time is just go and meet with every single fucking oil company and be like, just stop paying them. Just fucking stop. All of you guys. Just stop, you know, and take the budget from fucking eight months. Take the money that we get because it's, it's billions of dollars that we send to the east. Like Alberta pays for every single fucking thing in Canada. And you know, unfortunately it's like take all that money and then, you know, the only option I see is like private military contractors hired to Defend Alberta against the Canadian government. And you know, another thing is like, we really need ally, like ultimately like in a, that's like a pipe dream, I think. But the, the realistically, like the real scenario is we need, we need Trump slash the United States to support an independent Alberta and to maybe see the potential of having a Monaco, Andorra style country just attached to the border of the United States and support that and be like, okay, well Alberta is going to be like the Monaco of America. And, and we're willing to back that and we're willing to back it with the military because that, that, that's the only, I mean like the, every instance in history of any sort of fun rebellion, the Canadian government has just stamped it out with violence. And violence that also is not always public, which is like, if you go to a protest in Canada, you'll see the, the cops have video cameras, so there's all like the riot cops and then there's just guys with camcorders and they're just creating lists. And then like once all the drama is passed and the protest, then they just go after each person individually, one by one and ruin their fucking lives. So it's really insidious. It's like a giant. And then like I said on a huge scale, it's like this fucking. There's an insane amount of money at stake. And so like the answer in Fiat World is there. That that means there's this insane amount of potential violence. And yeah, I mean the only, the only way that it's going to happen is if somebody somewhere backs it with, with might with, with violence. Otherwise it's just not going to happen. So pretty real situation. Like a lot of other people would probably be more, you know, due process, all this kind of stuff. But I just kind of see the world as like, we've never actually really left like the, the kingdoms format. And you know, the other huge problem we have here is that everybody leaves. Anybody with any intelligence leaves. Anyone who wants to make a fortune leaves. Right? Anyone who wants to be a part of sophisticated military leaves. You go and become American and join the fucking Navy seals. Like, we don't, we don't have any of that here. So it's pretty interesting, you know, but, and then the bullish side is that like really, you know, maybe it's true that all you need is a 'Thousand men with AR15s and pickup trucks and you can change the world.
- [119:50]
Walker
I'd like to believe so. You know, like, as long as they're.
- [119:54]
Maddox
Powered by bitcoin, right?
- [119:56]
Walker
A thousand dudes with AR15s and pickup trucks and bitcoin that packs a pretty big punch. Well, dude, Maddox, this has been a, this has been a treat, man. Is there anything we didn't cover or anything else you want to get out there that we didn't get a chance to go over yet? If not, tell people where to find you. Tell people where to find your art. Tell people what you got coming up next. Whatever you want.
- [120:21]
Maddox
Yeah, I mean I got a ton of original work coming out of the studio and I'm just leveling everything up. So have a new format, really expensive originals and then a print system, super HD prints. So you can see the stuff that I'm releasing. I've got the jewelry lines coming together, really cool stuff. It's much better to see it in person. And I would just say that like back, back the things that you want to see continue to exist in the world. And if what I'm up to and if what I'm doing is one of those things, um, don't hesitate to spend.3 Bitcoin on a painting because it perpetuates this whole project forward, this whole mission and this whole signal. And this is a moment in, in history that will echo for eternity. And you know, this is a way to be a part of it. And I'm grateful for everything that's led me to this point and I'm extremely bullish and excited about everything coming in the future. Just amplification and I think the whole, I mean there's all kinds of drama within bitcoin, but I think overall we're winning. Doing really well and start running knots is a major thing. It's a small contribution that you can make. And what else do I have to add? Bull? Bitcoin is international now, so if you're in Europe, we can facilitate transactions at any scale. Same with Mexico, Costa Rica and obviously Canada where we started. And I think, and being a client of BULL means also that you're furthering the development of bitcoin. Because the, the talent of our engineering team is just like we're building the bridges and the infrastructure that is then rinsed, duplicated and copied by everybody else. And we're, we're very happy and willing to do that because obviously like we say internally at Bull that our mission is to make ourselves irrelevant. So we're an exchange based service. So the goal is to make it so that we don't have a business anymore other than just like, you know, developing engineering products and you know, doing, finding new ways to do things. But we want to extinct the exchange side of our business and bring the world, help usher the world onto a bitcoin standard.
- [123:15]
Walker
Love that. We need a little bit of bull bitcoin in America too, though. You know, just, just, just saying, you know, next territorial expansion perhaps.
- [123:28]
Maddox
Yeah, I think it's definitely on the map. Obviously a lot of challenges with the United States. Not as free as it claims to be, but, you know, but our goal is to just. Yeah, it can be. Our goal is just to enable people to live a bitcoin life, transact with bitcoin on a daily basis, and just have as little friction as possible to interact with the fiat world as we go through this transition. And I also have this painting right here which is about to go to the framers, man. Anyway, it's a beaut.
- [124:08]
Walker
It's a beaut.
- [124:09]
Maddox
I'm bad at chilling, but dude, no, no, no.
- [124:13]
Walker
I'll drop your links in the, in the show notes. Highly encourage everybody to go check out your stuff. Appreciate your time, man. Thank you. This was loved chatting with you as always. And next time, let's do this in person. We'll make it happen. Maybe I'll come up to your neck of the woods, see what the free state of Alberta looks like.
- [124:33]
Maddox
Yeah, I'd love to have you here. We're probably doing the bitcoin rodeo again next year, which was a huge success this year, and a lot of independent Alberta conversations and topics there. But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you in person. Doing an in person one would be great. And I'm, I think I'm about to like, the whole project both at bull and @madx is about to really level up. So I think the content and the conversations are just going to keep getting more and more exciting. So thank you very much for your time, Walker. This is great, dude.
- [125:06]
Walker
You are welcome back anytime. Great to see you, man. And yeah, thanks to everybody who joined in on Noster too. In, in your small part, you are helping to further the, the mission of, of freedom from this fiat. So cheers to you brother and cheers to everybody who listened in.
- [125:24]
Maddox
Cheers.
- [125:32]
Walker
And that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast. Remember to subscribe, subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the Internet. Find me on noster@primal.net Walker and this podcast@primal.net Titcoin on X, YouTube and Rumble. Just search at Walker America and find this podcast podcast on X and Instagram @tcoin podcast. Head to the Show Notes to grab sponsor links, head to substack.com walker America to get episodes emailed to you. And head to bitcoin podcast.net for everything else. Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast. Until next time time stay free.