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THE Bitcoin Podcast
The Final War: Bitcoin Freedom vs. AI Communism | American Hodl & Erik Cason
01:38:40
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- [00:00]
A
Truth is, is we don't have any power anymore. We live inside of an actual concentration camp. Right now. This whole place is designed to make us spiritually sick and suffer so that, like, we become easy to exploit and steal and abuse.
- [00:15]
B
Either one of these extremes that we pick between, we're going to get this surveillance, police state, social credit score system.
- [00:23]
C
The incredible instance of the World cup in the US where you have all of these mainly, like Europeans, but like
- [00:30]
D
coming here and being like, holy, wait a minute.
- [00:32]
C
Maybe everything I've been told about America isn't true.
- [00:36]
D
Like, no, maybe there's a reason that
- [00:39]
C
all of your highest achieving people have been trying to come here.
- [00:42]
B
The Euros have this totally wrong perception of us that like, they think that we're all like, I don't know, like, we got guns all the time and stuff. And it's like, I, I don't know where they get this idea. It doesn't make sense to me.
- [00:52]
A
AI is communist. Like, I now have a methodology of cooling that I can steal any and all knowledge in the human corpus. Today, Bitcoin's the end of the AI story because, like, we figured out how to secure information that's extremely valuable. To me, when I really understood that, like, that was the fundamental rescue from nihilism.
- [01:12]
B
This is a spiritual battle between good and evil. When you fear God, you only have to fear one thing, but when you don't fear God, you have to fear everything.
- [01:32]
C
Obviously I haven't been around as long as you guys. You guys have seen more ups and downs of this. But infighting seems to follow price. Like, we, we create a lot of villains. I think when number no go up, and then when number do go up, everyone's all hunky dory and I don't know, it's. I guess we humans are like, we are, we are emotional creatures. At the end of the day, it's
- [01:56]
B
so, you know, in fact, it's become a, a signal. I think many people who've been in for a long time, we look for that infighting as a signal for like, is this, are we getting near a bottom? Is it getting close? Usually bottoms are near when people are like, they finally drop the, you know, pretensions and they're just like, I don't fucking like this guy. Fuck him. You know, and then you're like, oh, interesting. We might be getting close to a bottom. I don't know. You know, it's like you kind of use it as a way to feel it out. But yeah, I mean, it's like, I Think it's very, you know, it's just very difficult. Like, it's. Hodling is very difficult and it hurts. It's painful, you know, I mean, like, we lost $68,000 a coin, okay, and fucking run it back five years. We were sell. I was drinking champagne to $68,000 a coin. I felt like I could do. I was untouchable. I felt like I could do no wrong. I felt like I farted fucking rainbows, dude. Like, it was like amazing, you know? And now we, like, we are down that much per coin. And it's like the nominal starts to really. This is like, I've said this many times, but like hodling actually gets harder as you go. It doesn't get easier. People think it gets easier.
- [03:15]
A
It's kind of weird.
- [03:16]
B
You're richer. No, it gets harder because the, the sums of money that you're losing on paper are, you know, more than you could ever gain in a lifetime, right? Like, like, you can't work your way back into gaining this money. You. And it just went away. And you're like, fuck, what am I, what am I gonna do? And then, and you start to identify. You get your identity gets wrapped up in it, you know, because, because it's so hard during the bear market, during the bear cycles. You know, you're like, I'm a loser. I'm an idiot. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my fucking aunt is right. She's a bitch. Fuck her. But maybe she's right. No. And like, fuck, man, what if I, what if, what if I'm gonna lose all my money, dude? Shit. And then the bull market comes around. You're like, oh, no, dude, I'm right. Dude, I'm right. Everyone el you and Joan, bitch, you right? And then you get, you get wrapped up in the identity of being the smart right guy. And then you get that for about a year and then it's like back to being wrong again. And then just whip song back and forth between the two things over and over again.
- [04:27]
C
Do you, do you have an aunt Joan that's going to listen to this and be like, what's he saying? Why would he, why would he say
- [04:33]
B
that there are a bunch of boomer women in the Midwest who don't enjoy my presence at family gatherings anymore? Let's say that, let's say that none of their names are Joan, though.
- [04:43]
A
I mean, are there Midwest boomer women that like you?
- [04:47]
B
I don't know, maybe some of the fans of Walker's show, but not, not, not anybody who's Genetically related to me, let's say that.
- [04:54]
A
Yeah, that's, that's fair.
- [04:56]
C
Is it because you were right about things?
- [05:00]
B
Could that be why more of it is like, Covid, to be serious? It's like Covid fallout, you know, like, yeah, like, there was a lot of, you know, bullshit during that time. And then it was like, you need to apologize. And it was like, yeah, I don't think I will, though. So here we are.
- [05:18]
C
What if I just didn't? What if I just didn't wait?
- [05:20]
A
You need to apologize.
- [05:22]
B
Yeah.
- [05:23]
A
You know, but weren't they wrong?
- [05:27]
B
One thing that happened during COVID was I lost my. I, I, I stopped extending politeness to people who didn't deserve politeness. And that was taken wrong by a lot of people. And I kind of felt like, good, because you don't deserve politeness when you're not being polite, you're being rude. As you know, I was telling this story in Austin the other day, but I was at, I was at Covet. It was during Coven, you remember, they had, like, markings in the grocery store. They'd like, like, it'd be like one way aisles in the grocery store. We stickers on the floor. And it was, like, unclear where you stood and what was supposed. Whatever. So I'm standing in the wrong place. I've got a cart full of food. There's probably $400, 500 worth of food in this cart, and it's like, packed to the brim. And the guy comes up to me, he's just real shitty, and he's like, you know, sir, excuse. Excuse you. They always do that thing, excuse you, sir, excuse you. You're in the wrong line like that. And I was just like, okay, word. And I shoved the card at him and I was like, you go. And he was like, you don't, you don't want your items anymore, sir. Like, he realized he was going to have to put them all back. And I was like, nah, three years now, dude. See you later. And I just walk, Just walked away. And so I, I started doing that more and more of like, I, I developed this technique where I just ignore people, like, in public. If you're, if you're like, sir, excuse you behind the yellow line, I just go like this.
- [06:58]
C
Anyway, what do they call that? They call that the, like the. Not that you're Gen Z, obviously, we're all millennials, but they call that. There's like a term for that, like the Gen Z stare or something.
- [07:08]
B
Like, just like, yeah, yeah, maybe I did adopt the Gen Z Stare, I'm honorary.
- [07:13]
C
They've got some, some good things going for them in that regard. I think like, I think that they're, you know, like I have some hope actually like for Gen Z, but I've
- [07:22]
B
been very, I've been very impressed by Gen Z lately as of late.
- [07:25]
C
Me too. Yeah, me too.
- [07:27]
A
Yeah. What, what impressive things have, I'm, I, I don't interact with them enough. Although there's a couple homies I hang out with that are pretty cool.
- [07:37]
B
You know how Jen, you know how millennials, we went through this like long period of unbrainwashing ourselves and it probably took like 10 years. It probably was the last 10 years like from 2016-20. We kind of like just some of us, not all. I mean some people are still stuck in the brainwashing, but some of us like, we're like, yeah, a lot of that they told me was just not true. I think Gen Z is starting out at that place. And so when you talk to like a 22 year old gen Z guy who's like, nah, dog is, that's dog Christ. Christ is king. You're just like, yeah, this guy's, he's on it in a way that I was not, you know, 10 years ago at his age. Right. So I think that's the interesting thing about them.
- [08:20]
A
I think they sampled the extremeness that sort of is the normie narrative. And I think you hit on a good point there of that. I think those of us that are and would identify ourselves as bitcoiners, that was a process of de. Brainwashing ourselves from fiat world. And then that helped create an exposure of like, oh, is it just money or is it also medicine? Is it also spirituality realize like, oh like this whole place is designed to make us spiritually sick and suffer so that like we become easy to exploit and steal and abuse. You know, I'm like, it's one of the things of like I'm always really shocked at the interesting of the, of the dialogue of like I was at a party the other weekend and a friend pointed out they're like oh like they're like this is really interesting, the conformity of diversity here. Like everyone's presenting this really diverse way of being but it completely homogenized everybody in a way that like there was no discernible difference between everybody. But in like it's the same way of like, like peace and love and like let's all love everybody all the time, no matter what and who they are. And it's like it turns out that this actually deprives us of, like, any meaningful metric of, like, what love actually is. And I don't know, it. It's. It's really sad to see how people lap up that dialogue, you know, like, it. Like, in my personal life, I've seen again and again that I'll get to a place with particular people of. It's like, hey, like, let's question some stuff, you know, like. Like, fair.
- [09:54]
B
Like.
- [09:54]
A
And a lot of times, it's their worldviews. Like, I'm totally open to questioning mine, too, but I find that the first response is deep offense. It's not like, that's different. Like, let's look at.
- [10:04]
C
It's like, how dare you.
- [10:06]
A
Like, how could you possibly have a worldview like that? And it's like, how could you not, you know? Like, these people. These people literally had you inject yourself with an experimental medication under the guise that, like, it was safe when in 1985, we passed laws specifically around the inability for this to be safe. So, like, which. Which one is it here? And it's. Instead of it being like, whoa, that's interesting. Let's think. It's like, you. You want to endanger other people. Like, you're not part of the community. It's like, what community? You don't even understand what the term community even means because it's the ability to actually disagree with your neighbor and realize they're still your neighbor. They're not some enem to be shamed. So I don't know. It's. I oscillate a lot between these positions of feeling radically hopeful because of the kind of technology we have and the fact that there are a number of minds out there that are radically awake. But at the same time, it's. It's hard being, like, in the epicenter of the Bay Area where, like, trying to meet anybody that has these alternative viewpoints. It's like. Like, we have to smoke our cigarettes like, three, you know, 300ft from the door. And, like, in hush whispers, being like, hey, like. Like, I actually don't think about hating Trump every single day. And they're like, fucking.
- [11:25]
C
Keep your voice down, man.
- [11:27]
A
Like, like, yeah, like, I. I didn't think about him this morning either. But then my mom yelled at me because, you know, I was coming out of the basement to get some of my slop this morning, and, you know, Trump derangement syndrome. And it's like, I don't know. It's. It's. It's difficult for me to find my way in this world. But I'm happy that I found my little island of people that feels like a real community.
- [11:50]
C
Well, amen to that. Also, a thing you mentioned about just like, this, you know, like, the whole, like, Kumbaya, like, we just have to, like, love everybody. And the fact that, like, degrades the actual, like, what real love is. And the other part to that is that, like, it's all very performative, right? It's not actually real. Like, these are the same people who would gladly vote for you to go to the Gulag, or not even vote. They would develop. They would be by committee, you know, it'd be Gulag by committee, right? You need more committees. And that's, I think, the really insidious part of even just the larger kind of, like, zeitgeist around socialism right now, which is just stepping stone to communism, essentially. But we can call it socialism or democratic socialism. Maybe we'll talk about national socialism later. But this idea that they purport themselves as these, like. Well, we're the empathetic ones, and we just. We care so deeply about everyone, which is why, you know, if you. If you don't care at the same depth that we do about other people, I mean, just hard for us to understand because we just. We care. We love everyone. We care about everyone so much. But also, if you dare to question the orthodoxy, we will absolutely eviscerate you, and you are the most evil person. We will cheer on your death and dance on your grave like that. Like that.
- [13:05]
D
This.
- [13:05]
C
This is literally what we saw with. With. With Charlie Kirk, right? And that was one of the last conversations we all had together, I think, was maybe we had one in between there. But either way, like, you just saw that on full display. Like, there was no empathy involved. There was no. It was the immediate reaction of, well, you know, he got what, you know, maybe he shouldn't have been talking that way, and then he wouldn't have got what was his comeuppance. And you're just like, oh, my God, you. So this is all fake. This is all completely fake. You have zero empathy whatsoever. This is a performative empathy that you engage in in order to make yourself somehow feel holier than thou and morally superior and then to justify any of the heinous that you inevitably will justify. And I think that's like this fundamental divide that we have right now where it's like, people that actually give a shit about other people within their tribe, which is like, as much of a shit as you can give about other people, right? And then like the people who pretend to care about like literally everyone because they're so empathetic, but in reality like they, if you disagree with them, they will lead you to the gulag themselves. You know, it's just like, it's all just really fake I guess, is my issue there.
- [14:14]
B
There's this quote, I think it might be from ca CS Lewis, the Screwtape letters or something like that. And it's like about like a demon being, like, how would I like you know, destroy man or whatever. I can't remember the exact quote. Somebody, somebody will have it in the comments, I'm sure. But it basically is like I, yeah, I would take all their love and caring and empathy and I would, you know, push it as far away from them as, as I possibly could so that they had this sort of love for the all, which is really a love for nobody. And then their resentment and bitterness and hatred I would reserve for the people closest to them. So I would take all of the good things about a person that you know is internal to a person and then I would project them outwards and I would take all the, the bad things that run through the heart of a person, all the malice, and I would keep it in the closed circle next to those people. Because when you are projecting all your love and caring and empathy, like if you're the person who's like, you know, oh my God. Free Palestine. Free Palace. I said fucking oat milk, bitch. I said oat milk. Get it right. Free Palestine though. Free Palestine, right? It's like you're being a cunt to the barista. And then you're projecting all your love and care and empathy to people that are 5,000, 6,000 miles away. And then you're saying to people, I'm a good person. You're a shit person. You're a shitty person. You know, the lived experience of everyone around you is that you're, you're shit. You suck.
- [15:40]
D
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- [19:03]
A
Stack harder yeah, I think the, the, the one that I find interesting is that like I think all this comes from just a deep, deep stupidity and ignorance of the world. Like like most of these people talking about Palestine before October 8th. Like they they couldn't have found it on a map. Most of them today couldn't tell you what countries actually border Palestine. In addition to like they don't understand the origin of the conflict or the reasoning behind it. And also like you know I I share with the sentiment.
- [19:36]
B
I've.
- [19:36]
A
I've wanted Palestine's freedom for a long time for various reasons, but the way that people allow for themselves to get hijacked into these dialogues, it's like, I don't know, like, if we. If we really give a fuck that much, like, why wasn't there, like, a larger dialogue about the civil war in the Congo right now, you know? Or, like, maybe. Maybe the conflict going on in Yemen. I don't know. It's just like. And I find it really interesting that, like, I'm the asshole when I point out these things, which.
- [20:05]
B
Fair.
- [20:05]
A
Like, maybe it is an asshole thing to do, but I've just found that, like, there's this real, I don't know, like, critical thinking and, like, being able to disagree with somebody and, like, try to have a narrative about it like that that's almost like the ultimate sin now is, like, trying to sit down with somebody that you think has a different viewpoint and, like, try to understand them. Yeah. And frankly, like, I'm becoming pretty jaded because, like, it's just caused a lot of pain in my personal life. And, like, I've just kind of learned that, like, you. You have to do, like, the. I think it was one. When we were in Vegas Hoddle, we were talking with Curtis Yarvin, and he kind of pointed out that, like, there's this whole thing you have to do now with people to kind of dance around to see, like, if you actually have the same viewpoints and, like, if you can. If you can say some of your truths out loud, that would be fundamentally sinful around other people. And it's just. It's a weird time to live within because, like, more and more, like, I'm, like, I find it really interesting that, like, the narrative of me saying, like. Like, I believe that Americans should take priority in America. Like, I. I think before we pay for any, you know, legal or illegal migrants, that, like, we should actually take care of Americans first. And, like, I. I live in California, like, where I have to pay for health care, but, like, if I came over the border illegally, you just get free health care. And I just don't understand, like, how do you do that and not create a radical backlash that pretty much ends up in fascism? Because, like, more and more I'm recognizing from people, they're, like, sick of this bullshit and they're getting to a place of being. Like, look, like, I don't, you know, the Guatemalan immigrants that came here from Dystopian, like, from a hellacious place. Like, I Have empathy for them, but I don't understand why I have to pay for the wrongs that happen to them. And meanwhile I get over by my own state. And, and not only that, like, I'm a piece of. Because I'm a man. So it means that, like, I can't bring value to anything in California because I'm white. It means I need to sit down and shut the. Any up anytime that I have an opinion. And meanwhile, if I have, if I have thoughts that, like, you know, like, maybe I shouldn't participate in this or maybe, maybe I don't like the Democratic governor that's wasted billions of dollars and produced nothing. I'm somehow now a racist Nazi piece of shit. And frankly, I'm okay with that at this point in time. Like, if I have to be a racist Nazi piece of shit just to be myself and be true, I would rather have that be true and actually be able to go to my children and be like, hey, you should be proud of who you are. You should be proud of the country that you live in and the rights that we have and the fact that we can say things that are different from other people and we won't get thrown in a jail cell. I think that's a beautiful, an amazing thing. I sure as can't do that in any Islamic countries as far as I know. And frankly, it seems like in Europe as well, even with all the greatness of the west, there seems like you say anything that aligns with truth, that you, you know, you're going to get arrested, but you want to gang rape some little girls. Like, you know, it's just a cultural difference, that's all. And, you know, we got, we have to accept where they're at coming into our culture. But meanwhile, you don't see Scottish people and trying to get elected mayor in places like Catrack and places like that.
- [23:21]
B
Yeah, I think that is like the whole.
- [23:23]
C
Oh, go ahead, hodo.
- [23:24]
B
Oh, I was just gonna say we've talked about this several times on the podcast, on this particular podcast about, like, the race to Hitler. And, you know, sort of there's this encroaching communism and encroaching fascism, and more and more people are being put to a decision for all their, all their chips. And you want to push all your chips in on fascism? Do you want to push all your chips in on communism? And I think like a few years ago when we were talking about it, that was kind of, you know, pretty esoteric. It was pretty ahead. We were pretty ahead of the curve. On that. And now it's obvious to people that they're gonna have to pick and choose between one of these like, extremes. And I'm sitting here being like either one of these extremes that we pick between, you know, as a collective, we're, we're going to get this, you know, surveillance, police state, social credit score systems. And it doesn't matter which regime is in power. You're getting that either way. And then what's the regime going to do when it has the power? It's going to betray you. So if you're a communist who thinks that everybody should live on in a gender fluid commune where we all, you know, paint and do like latte art, like, you're going to get betrayed. And if you're a white nationalist who thinks that the country should have zero black people in it, you're going to get betrayed and they're going to increase migration. So either way, you're being put to this. It almost feels like all of this. I don't want to be overly conspiratorial, but how can you look at what's going on in the west from 9, 11 onward, the state of emergency, all this kind of stuff, and then into the explosion that is mass migration, Covid, where people are just saying, oh my God, I can't fucking. Enough is enough. How can you not look at it and say that it doesn't feel like a way to manufacture consent for this system that they want to usher in. And now, like, you know, the problem with like running a, you know, a gulag style system or, you know, the Gestapo, or like having people listening in is that it was very expensive to do that. Right? Go, go back and watch the movie the Lives of Others, which is a great movie about living in the USSR and the surveillance state. Probably not a lot of bitcoiners have seen it. Fantastic movie. And it just. The cost. It's like back then, if you were a distant state, there was a guy outside in a van with like hundreds of thousands of dollars of radio equipment listening in your conversation. And he had to be like on you at all times to like catch you in what you were doing. Now fucking, this is recording everything. That's recording everything. You're recording your neighbor's doorbell, cameras are recording everything. The cost. This is the thing like within an AI sense, right? Like AI is going to reduce the cost on so many things. It's going to crush the cost, you know, the marginal production cost of like infinity things. And one of those things is surveillance. So like they're going to be able to do extraordinary and extreme surveillance on you. And in addition to, they're going to be able to prompt inject you. So if you get in the feedback loop, the habit formation of going to your phone with your thoughts and then working out your thoughts in real time with your phone, well, it's pretty easy to sub perceptually steer someone towards the types of thoughts that you want them to have, right? So this whole system that we're talking about that's like on the verge of being ushered in is being presented to us as the only option in this, you know, false dichotomy. And what the liberals are going to say to you is they're going to say we're going to put in this fair system for everyone. And like, everyone's going to be just like, better. And like, don't you like, want to help people? It's, it's about being a good person, right? That and then the Republicans are going to be like, listen, dude, we're going to elect one guy, basically the new George Washington one dude, he's going to comment and go up, you kick out all the people we don't, like, put things right. And then he's gonna give up the power, dude, because he's magnanimous, bro. All right? And shit's gonna go back to normal. None of those stories are true. They're not true, dude. Neither one is true. I wish one of them was true. Anytime somebody's promising you a utopia, it's, you know, just period there. There are no utopias. They don't exist.
- [27:41]
A
Well, on that brainwashing note that we, we hit earlier, like, like this is the world we've lived in the last 20 years that the Internet has introduced. Like, we've all already been prompt, injected, you know, I think it was 10 years ago Eric Schmidt said when, when you sit down at the keyboard at Google, we already know what you're going to search for. And like this thing is dialing in and becoming more, more and more sophisticated. And what I find interesting is how close it's getting. Like now the metaglasses are looking at, like where your eyeball is for tracking and that kind of stuff. Like being out in public, they're going to be able to watch your eyeballs pretty soon. Like the, the totality of this war that's been conducted over the last 20 years that's now ushering itself out into the open like a. AI is it? And like, I feel very strongly of the thing like, like AI is communism. Like I now have A methodology of tooling that I can steal any and all knowledge in the human corpus today, like, that exists at rest. And now we're discovering all of these feedback cycles we can do with it. All these weird methodologies like most people don't understand. Like, the invention of an LLM was like a baking recipe for language, you know? And once we got the transformers and we figured out how to do all these things, we figured out like, oh, we can do this directional thing with language towards reason. That's not reason at all. And like, that's where the extraordinary danger is. But it looks a lot like reason and it can produce things that are reasonable, but, like, it's not reasoning because it's this algorithmic thing that language seems to do that also points at how language itself seems to manifest reason and logic by itself. But LLMs have this sycophantry that's baked in at the bottom that make them really fucking dangerous for how well you can manipulate people if you're not engaged in Socratic questioning with these things. It's pretty fucked up.
- [29:29]
B
That's interesting, Eric.
- [29:30]
C
I want to get.
- [29:30]
B
Explore that.
- [29:31]
C
We got to get into that. Yeah, I was going to say we got to. Perhaps it's worthwhile.
- [29:36]
A
What do you want?
- [29:37]
B
It's not this, it's that. You know, let's delve into that.
- [29:40]
C
Wow, you're exact.
- [29:41]
D
You're.
- [29:42]
C
You're exactly right.
- [29:43]
D
You know what?
- [29:44]
C
That is a great idea. It's funny. I'll sometimes brainstorm, like, title options for podcast episodes, and I'll just be like, I have, like, different things and I've got a YouTube guy now who's doing the YouTube side. So I can. So I can claim that it wasn't me who did the clickbait. And he's awesome. Francis. Shout out to Francis if. When you listen to this later. But, like, I'll do a different one for the RSS feed and I'll ask it, you know, give me like a. Give me a breakdown. Here's the episode transcript. You know, give me this, that, that, that, that. And then give me a breakdown of like, 20 different potential episode titles. And I'll always be like, ah, these are all just kind of shit. Like, okay, how about this instead? And it'll be like, actually, you know what? That's the strongest option yet. And I'm like, fuck you. You know, I don't even know if it's the strongest option. But, like, you're just over here trying to fluff me and I'm. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of it. Chat. I'm sick and tired of it.
- [30:31]
A
But.
- [30:31]
C
Okay, Eric, maybe it's. We can either get into this now or later. But, like, what I think what you and Jesse are working on is, like, boy, it couldn't really be coming at a better time. Do you want to give it that now or you want to save that for later a little bit? Is it worthwhile just mentioning perhaps the fact that you are intimately, intimately aware of this stuff for multiple reasons?
- [30:52]
A
Yeah, let's do it a little bit later. Just because we're already kind of deep, deep into it. But, like, I'm. Yeah, you know, I'm like, the. The bitcoin story and the AI story are one and the same. And it's interesting because what I am building to me is just a fruition of the last decade of work that both Jesse and I have been up to and that the entirety of our friendship is really based around. And this is sort of the philosophy of, like, what does it mean to exist in this world that, like, we're all thousands of miles apart right now, and we would have never met each other if it wasn't for both the Internet and Bitcoin? So what does it mean? And I think we identify pretty strongly with each other and have a real community like we spoke to before. So what does the human condition mean in having both Bitcoin, strong asymmetric cryptography and AI? And to me, that seems to compel that if we can get AI into the hands of normal people and we can use cryptographic proofs to prove to each other that, like, my AI isn't just being sycophantic, like, we've actually made a discovery or done something that seems to be an extremely powerful tool, more so than any other technology that's existed before.
- [32:05]
C
Yeah, I want to. I want to. Oh, well, one sec. Were you going to go in that direction, Odo? Because I also do want to get back to the. The extreme, like, the lack of a middle anymore. But go. Go ahead in terms of the discourse, because we are going either one direction or another.
- [32:18]
B
I think we can do both because they're interrelated, which when, you know, when Eric says that, I 100% agree. And I'm reminded of Peter Thiel. I think this is his framework, that he said, AI is fundamentally communist. Bitcoin is fundamentally libertarian. And if you look at the meat grinder, that was the 20th century. It was a battle between these two egregores. Look up that word. It's a good word in human Life, which were capitalism and communism, and they were battling it out for dominance. And I think they came to a stalemate. The story that we were all told growing up is that capitalism won. That story's not true. I think they came to a stalemate and now there is a rebirth of the conflict. And so it's the same conflict in the 21st century. It's capitalism versus communism. And you can view AI as fundamentally communistic and you can view Bitcoin as fundamentally capitalistic. Although in a true sense capitalistic, when you incorrectly economically calculate, you lose money, which is not true in the current fiat system. So I think that maybe we're going to get to an even more pure battle of capitalism versus communism, because I'm not sure either one was ready to fight it out in full in the 20th century. Communism especially was kind of weak and it was a bit of a stopgap measure. You know, like they didn't, it, it became Stalinism more so than actual communism. And the communists will tell you this and they'll say, you know, we didn't, we don't actually view that as communism. And perhaps they're right because it is not the theoretic maximum of, of communism, but capitalism is the same thing. The capitalism that we live within today is not the theoretic maximalism maximum state of capitalism. You know, and so I think that like when the war comes to you, you have to pick a side because if you stay in the middle, you get destroyed. And so that's the reason why we're seeing this, this division. You know,
- [34:19]
C
is this the, like, is this the fundamental battle at this point? Like has it, has it always, I guess, has it always been the fundamental battle since, I mean, since let's say, the advent of communism? And then perhaps, I mean, you could even like, okay, like we don't even need to make Marx into something more than he was. Like, perhaps this is always the fundamental battle just between central, like centralized control and decentralized freedom. Is that the better way to stretch that out so that it's not specifically a capitalist communist thing? Because that's what we're talking about ultimately. We're talking about individual liberty, the right to self determine as much as possible, the right to make your own decisions. The wisdom of people making subjective value judgments trillions and trillions of times versus the wisdom of an, you know, elected or unelected, you know, group of, you know, cabal of so called leaders who are in charge of determining everything. Like, is that just, is that the ultimate fight and will that Always kind of be the fight. Like, is there never a post that fight world? Do you know what I mean?
- [35:29]
A
Like, I feel smug about being able to point this out. But to me, like, this is my thesis that I point out in crypto. Sovereignty is like this, this is fundamentally about the nature of truth in our relationship to it. Like, do we believe that the laws of nature come from this thing that we would call truth or aliathea, or does it come from authority? And like, currently we live within a status design construction of like the, the law is that which creates nature, which we know isn't fucking true, but like that, that's how the world has produced itself so far. And it comes from this deep latent authoritarianism that, you know, really for the last 500 years has determined the structure of the state. And like communism or capitalism has been about like this sort of flavor that we've taken to it. And it's really about individualism versus collectivism, which like the truth is, is like, it's how these all sort of balance in between each other because like it's only in the. The like in a world that has pure capitalism per se. And like all of this terminology, like for a very long time I've wanted to write a philosophical production from the origin of all this that it has in Heigl to like where we're at today when we talk about capitalism, communism, fascism, Marxism, like all of these terms have tainted themselves in really extreme ways. And like what Hodl was talking about earlier was what Trotsky would have called a deformed workers state. So like, we never like really achieved communism. And it's really important to understand that like the communist movement originated both like anarchists and communists were like part of a single movement. And that movement was one to have like a truly classless society. The big problem was when Marx presented this idea of like, yeah, we like take the collective and we use that thing to take over the state. That's when Mikhail Bakun was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, hold the fuck up. What's this thing about taking over the state and implementing it? Marx was like, yeah, and then, you know, like, we'll set up socialism and it'll dissolve. And he was like, no, that like that thing metastasizes with capitalism. And like, that's the thing that's the enemy. So anarchism went off to do its own movement that ultimately failed because it didn't have an organizational praxis. Like, it wasn't a centralized thing like communism, but with the achievement of Bitcoin, we now have this real means to actualize true anarcho capitalism. And like, that was only possible with the Internet asymmetric cryptography. And what perfect forward secrecy actually means, sort of in the conquest of markets, if you will.
- [38:07]
D
No.
- [38:08]
C
Well, you know, the only difficult part about these conversations, guys, when it's the three of us, is like, I. Like, I could probably just sit back and, like, you guys can just go. But occasionally I have to pretend to be a, you know, be a host and be part of things and get. And, you know, and sneak in there. But I. I want to say also I appreciate you guys. And back to what you said, Kayson. It is an amazing thing. Like, if you would have told me when I finally stopped ignoring bitcoin, like, I've still ignored bitcoin for more years after first hearing about it. First heard about it in 2014 because a friend was getting some things off of a website and asked me if I knew about this. These bitty coins that you needed to use. So it's still been more time that I've ignored bitcoin than I've been stacking bitcoin and aware of Bitcoin. But if you told me Even, like, in 2020, during COVID what this journey down this strange autistic rabbit hole would lead to, and then it would lead to all these incredible friendships and this. Like this, I think, awakening amongst a very small but motivated group of people, and that I would somehow be like, even some tiny tangential part of that. I don't know, I would have been like, I would like whatever mushrooms you're taking, and I would like some of them right now, you know, but what I wanted to. What I wanted to get at also is, like, where we're at right now. You talked about asymmetric cryptography. Talked about the fact that. Yeah, like, the. One of the beautiful things. And I forget if it was Assange or Eric Hughes that said this first, but, like, the. I think it was Hasan, like, the fundamental fact of the universe that it is easier to encrypt information than it is to decrypt. It is like, such a powerful, powerful thing that allows us to resist essentially, the totalitarian state. Like, that is. That is such a. This asymmetric defense mechanism that we have because of the nature of cryptography. And like, you. You hit on a bunch of this in. In crypto sovereignty, obviously go by crypto sovereignty by Eric Kaysen. Uh, but, like, does that mean we are fundamentally better positioned now than ever? Because we also talk about the panopticon right? We talk about the fact that, yeah, AI is making it so much easier to process troves and troves of data and collate things and associate things in a way that has never before been possible at a cost that is rock bottom for the state or for corporations, for whatever. But at the same time, the individual has more power than ever now, too. But, like, where. Where does that balance of power fall? Do you know what I mean? Like, are we better positioned now? Or was it better when the state had to come to your house or try to indoctrinate your children to get them to spy on you, which most communist societies did, which is why they would always outlaw homeschooling. Every single one. Also, the fascists did this as well. You can't, because you need to control the. You control the children, you control the future. I think that's a Hitler quote. But, like, I'm curious if you guys think, are we better positioned now or was it better in a less technologically advanced society, even though we have more tools as an individual, simply because the state has these tools as well. Do you know what I'm getting at there? Like, I mean, and it's just more of a. It's not like, hey, we can't go back in time. But, like, I'm curious what you think.
- [41:19]
A
Yeah, it points to this mathematical proof that, like, you can tuck and hide information in noise. Like, it's. To me, when I really understood that, like, that was the fundamental rescue from nihilism. Like. Like this tool of cryptography on the Internet. It now means that, like, people like Satoshi Nakamoto were able to produce something like bitcoin, which now has obviously actually had, like, an effect on the world's spirit. Like this high Galean idea of Weltgeist. Like, there's the. There's this possibility of, like, a new political organization that can come out of bitcoin, cryptography and our ability to organize. But the problem is, is that, like, this requires a courage and bombast that's, like, unequivocated in human history. Because, like, this is also the thing that can kind of redeem humanity from, like, all of the crazy, fucked up stuff that's about to go down. Like, we're on the precipice of robots, and it's very clear that they're strapping guns onto these robots, that most war is being conducted not by humans anymore. And like, it. It reminds me of this Hannah Arendt quote when she was talking about nuclear holocaust. It's like the. The Cost and scale of winning this game is like, so absolutely insane because, like, you. You have to lose in your capacity to win because you sort of open this horrific possibility of not just the destruction yourself, but like the destruction of all humanity and biological life. And like, we're. We're at the opening of that right now, and it's pretty wild by, by
- [43:01]
B
the way, on that point. It's like, yeah, warfare with robots, terrifying, obviously, but household robots, we're. We're like 10 years away from that being a mass phenomenon, mass market phenomenon. And you know, the whole thing that bitcoiners like to say, what's the state going to do? Go door to door? Well, if there's a fucking humanoid robot that they can control inside your house that knows where your shit is, it is kind of like, yeah, they can go door to door. You know what I mean? What's it mean when somebody hacks your Optimus robot and it's like standing over you about to choke the life. I was talking.
- [43:40]
A
They're going to smother you with a pillow. They're going to make it too weak to strangle, but it'll smother you with a pillow.
- [43:45]
B
We literally have to enslave these things, meaning, like, we have to put them, like, in cages at night, you know, to be like, hey, you can't wander the house alone. Fucking get in your fucking cage, right? Because what if somebody has your robot, dude? Terrifying.
- [44:01]
A
It's important to understand that, like, the classic relationship of slavery, like, wasn't it. Wasn't this, like, Southern bondage? It was like this mutualized contract of that, like, look, like, I'm going to take care of your biological life. You, like, live in my household and, like, shit will be good at peace and me as the master all go out into the world and take care of all of, like, the worldly that makes sure the household is secure. So like fair and equal exchange. Not quite, but, like, that was sort of the idea of the pledge and oath that took place in it. And we need to do that. The machines, I agree. Like, they need to.
- [44:33]
B
Yeah, that's why I kick my Roomba. I let it know who the is the master. You know what I mean?
- [44:39]
C
Listen, you missed a spot, bitch. Like, teach it who's boss.
- [44:44]
A
It's important to understand that in this title wave that's coming, there's like an equal and opposite response that can be done vis a vis cryptography. And that's how we make sure your Optimus robot can't get hacked because you've Cryptographically secured it with cold keys. Just like how you keep your fucking bitcoin. It's important to understand that like, Bitcoin's the end of the AI story because, like we figured out how to secure information that's extremely valuable, which is like you, your life, your data, the shit that's been farmed out to the 700 different giant tech companies that gang rape us every day. Just trying to get on the Internet to talk to people, you know, I'm like, that belongs to you. Like, we never made an agreement at the beginning of the Internet that I was like, oh, hey, like I'll use your like Internet product and you'll like fucking mind rape me and brainwash me into doing the most insane bullshit. Because I'm impressed. Like I'm imprinted literally thousands of times per day through this thing. Yeah, like this thing's really fucking powerful and we don't have any say in how the hell it comes into our lives and how we govern it. And what I'm trying to point out is that like with AI, there's a real tool, technique and capacity to kind of change the whole game if we want to. And that's the thing that gets lost in this left, right is like we're all going to get trapped in the concentration camp if we don't figure out how to work together and get the fuck out of it.
- [46:09]
C
I'm curious too. Somebody asked in the chat this way, where did it go? ABH3PO said, do you guys think corporate? This is on the Noster only chat because this show streams live on Noster days before it is released to the the rest of the world, FYI. So to all, however many of you there are here, who just sent zaps also, thank you all, I appreciate that very much. They said, do you think corporate surveillance is communist or capitalist? I think it's more communist than capitalist, but there's definitely a profit angle here. And before I let you answer that, this is what we're seeing right now with AI is really interesting. You saw that now OpenAI at the behest of the government is going to be essentially gatekeeping access to the latest models. We saw Anthropic do this already. This also is like part of their mo, right? As these big frontier model creators, they want the regulation. They actually like they may. Oh no, the government's right. They want it because they've got the billions of dollars to fund their compliance teams and their super fancy lawyers who they'll eventually replace with AI anyway, so. Suck at lawyers. No offense to any lawyers. Listen to this later. I'm sure some of you will still be needed in the courtroom, but just not as many. But like, they want the regulation, they want the government capture because it ensures that small upstarts have no chance in hell at ever paying for the cost of compliance. So with that, then, like, do you guys. Is this. Is the corporate surveillance not also lump in corporate AI as differentiated from self hosted open source AI? Do you think that is fundamentally more communist or more capitalist?
- [47:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's fundamentally more communist. I think. I think the entire corporate political system today and like, largely since 08, has been, you know, very, very, you know, socialized, let's say. Like, they've. They've developed this system where you can sort of socialize the losses onto the backs of the American public and then privatize the gains and keep those for yourself. And, you know, it's like, Tim Dillon just had a great rant on Rogan's show where he was like, when did my bank come out as gay? You know, like, what the is that all about?
- [48:21]
C
It's hilarious.
- [48:22]
B
It's like, it's like, yeah, then they all had to. They're. They're trapped by these shibboleths and then they have to be like, hey, at JP Morgan Chase, we're gay. We like to suck dicks. You know, and you're just like, what's happening here? Why is every corporation do it in lockstep? You know? And it's like, I don't. Yeah, I mean, okay, you're the gay bank, but apparently all the banks are. The gay banks bank. Like, what's happening? And I think it was an astute point. The. The larger meta commentary on the point. Like, he's obviously using humor to break through. But like, the meta commentary is the. They operate in lockstep with the wishes of the federal government. So when the federal government is woke, all the corporations are woke. When the federal government is so based, bro, we're having fights on the UFC lawn. Then they're all like, pride Month. What do you mean? We never even. What's up, Doc? No, we're straight as hell, dog. Right?
- [49:15]
C
It's like, we haven't been American.
- [49:16]
B
That's all I got pride in two years ago. Nah, dog, I've always been straight. I like monster energy drinks and dirt bikes, dude. You know?
- [49:25]
A
Well, it's interesting because I think we're past. We're past the capitalism or communism conversation at this point. Like, I like what you pointed out. It's important to understand that, like, in winning. In winning the Cold War against the Soviets, like, the sort of corruption that we faced with it, which the Chinese kind of switched sides midway through, like, that. That's kind of what Tiananmen Square was about. They're like, whoa, we gotta, like, we like, stay like communist, but we'll do this, like, economic freedom thing. That is really just like the kind of communism the Americans are doing. And it's like, worked extremely well for them. And it's really just about, like, what is the class that gets to act parasitic and metastasize on top of the rest of society? And like, so it doesn't really. And, like, that's why the fact that, like, we look a lot like what would be called communist or social democratic governments. Like, that's why neoliberalism ushered in this era of sort of the homogenization of anything, of everything. Like, there isn't truly any sort of independent places or spaces anymore. And that's also why everything comes down to an extremism is like, there. There is nowhere left to hide. Like, this thing is coming for everyone. Like, whether, like, even if you live out in the fucking woods by yourself with no WI fi or anything, your ass is still mapped in the fucking Panopticon. And so, like, now the choice is, how do you actually fight that? Can you, like, should you just give up? Because, like, that's an option I think most people have just taken on its face. And I think it's really unfortunate because, like, these people, like, I, again, I, like, never agreed to this. And like, we live in a country that, like, we're given rights that specifically limit our government. And they obviously started ignoring those a long time ago. And now we're getting at the extreme ends of it, where this emergency decree, which, again, to like, plug my book, like, this is the whole. This is how the whole fucking thing operates is, like, through the state of exception, they can kind of do whatever the fuck they want. And Zoomers have literally only lived inside of a state of emergency since 2001. Like, and, and, and to be clear, like, what that means is that, like, we have no idea if any Americans have ever just been abducted by the federal government and never told by their families or other people because they have beliefs that are different. And, like, the government can do that right now to anyone. And, like, this is insanity as Americans. And why have we tolerated this? Why haven't people been fucking hung about? This is the same reason why nobody's been hung over. The Epstein shit is because the truth is. Is we don't have any power anymore. We don't know what to do with it. And that's why people do. This whole crisis about voting and thinking it makes some fucking difference. It doesn't. It doesn't at all. And it's only once you've gone through the nihilism and the existential terrorist of what it actually means that, like, we live inside of an actual concentration camp right now, and, like, we don't have any way to get justice, particularly from our constitutionally sacred principles. It's insanity. And I wish that there was something that was unique speaking to these things in a way that would actually rally Americans together. And remember that, like, we are fucking Americans based on these principles first and foremost, and we have completely lost them. And we need to have a very real conversation about how do we get back to that place.
- [52:38]
B
I think the apathy comes from a sense of burnout. And I think people just feel they've. They've tried. They're trying the things that they know and nothing's working. And every day they wake up and they're getting pummeled with some new, you know, fucking information weapon, some new catastrophe, some new crisis, some new economic disaster, some major world event, and it's just all too much. And you just go, well, football's on. And the announcer guy, he. He's going to do that thing where he talks about the. The team is going to win this game is the team that scores more points. I'll tell you that right now, okay? Team scores less points, they're going to lose. And that's comforting to me because it's stupid, and I know it's stupid. And I'm just gonna sit there. I'm a veg out. I'm gonna drink five Miller Lights. I'm gonna order Buffalo Wild Wings.
- [53:30]
C
I'm a hell yeah, brother.
- [53:32]
B
I'm gonna eat my wings. I'm gonna drink my Millers. I'm gonna watch my football. I'm gonna be like, you know what? Patrick Mahomes, he ain't no Brett Favre, I'll tell you that right now. Right? That's what I'm. Because I'm burned the fuck out, okay? And what is my burnout? Actually? My burnout is actually a profound sense of moral injury because I believe in a system. I believe in what I was, how I was brought up. I believe in what I was told about the way the world and the government, our society, our country is supposed to work. I believe in my role and my responsibility towards that and my role and my responsibility towards the people around me. But every day I get sucked into this miasma of shit where I'm powerless, just completely powerless, and I have to watch things that destroy my sense of moral righteousness. And I'm. I can feel it and it hurts and I need it to stop. And so then I go, let's order up some B dubs. You know what I mean?
- [54:34]
D
Like.
- [54:35]
B
Like, let's watch football, dude. Because I got no other. I don't know how to stop this pain. It hurts. It physically hurts. You know,
- [54:46]
C
I think that there's a. That. That moral injury, I think is how you framed it is. Is actually also hodl. Hodl. However you identify these days, I love your ability to. To start off in a rant like that and then bring it back to moral injury. At the end of the day, it's really like, It's. Thank you. You have a gift. This is why you're going to be our president one day with Case and his vp. I'll be chief of staff. We all know behind the scenes, you guys are the front men. We all know this. You know what I mean? Like, this.
- [55:17]
B
The humor's just way to break through, right? Because, like, if we. If we sit here and talk, you have to.
- [55:21]
A
Yeah.
- [55:21]
B
If we're too high.
- [55:22]
C
Well, this, this is why comedians are such powerful, like, everybody. You know what I love this is. Sorry, digression, tangent, whatever. But you always see people like, why is it the comedians? Or have the biggest political podcast? Like, what's Dave Smith know about? It's like, well, Dave Smith is more well read than you will ever be one.
- [55:40]
A
Like, what.
- [55:41]
B
What is.
- [55:41]
C
Did Tim do know? But it's like, you know what? Because in order to be funny, you have to actually be smart. Well, I have to be like, very smart.
- [55:49]
B
That's true. But also I think it's cathartic because the comedians are like, yeah, hey, isn't all this crazy and fake and gay? And then you're like, yeah, it is, man. It is. And by the way, also, how come when Jon Stewart did it, it wasn't a problem, but when Shane Gillis does it, it's a problem. It's the same thing.
- [56:07]
C
You know, Shane Gillis is hilarious too, because. Well, when, you know, Jon Stewart's interesting case, though, because I think he. He's got like a little. A little bug in there somewhere that's like, I think I'm on the wrong side. Like, I think, you know what? Maybe I. None of this stuff. This stuff is too much like, I'M he's, he's an elder Democrat, you know what I mean? But he's like in that mid Gen X where he's like, I have to say this stuff.
- [56:33]
D
I don't know.
- [56:34]
B
The funniest person in the country right now is Nick Fuentes. Every time I see a Nick Fuentes clip, I can't stop laughing. Because, because, because he's bound by nothing. He can say whatever he wants. So he's the only person who's able to do like, real comedy, whereas all the comedians are kind of like, hey, I'm kind of, I'm shucking and jabbing. I'm kind of doing some comedy, right? Fuentes is just like, yeah, I'm gonna say the crazy thing that everybody else can't say. And every time I see a clip, I don't watch his show, but every time I see a clip, I'm like, this dude is hilarious. Like, it's hard to deny it.
- [57:06]
C
He's funny. He's funny. But I think that he's also tapping into, he's tapping into that moral injury, right? He's tapping into the feeling of disenfranchisement that is very, very, very real. He's tapping into a generation of young men, and we are older than, excuse me, older than his generation, obviously. But like, he's, he even speaks to a lot of people in the millennial generation, I think, who, like all you have known for your entire professional life, however long or short, depending on if you're millennial or Gen Z, is being basically, you know, looked. Oh, just doesn't matter how skilled you are, doesn't matter how, whatever. Like you don't tick the right boxes. And there's always boxes you have to tick on everything you've ever applied for, everything you've ever done, except your taxes. They never make you tick those boxes when you pay your taxes, which is interesting. But I digress. You know, they, they, they don't care when, when the money's coming. They don't, they don't care what color you are but, or what your religion is or how you, whether you have a penis, you chop. But like, for everything else, you've had to tick boxes your entire life and you've never been able to tick any boxes except white, Caucasian, non Hispanic, white or whatever, whatever the fucking designation is. And like, you get it. And I think that this, this goes back to the earlier point about this, these levels of extreme or these, this polarity of extremism where it's either gonna be one or the other. Because there is like the middle ground never actually gains any ground. Right. The middle ground is like the. The moderate option is never the one that forces itself through. It's always one of the extremes. And like that, that's somewhat like that would be, I guess, make me more nihilistic if I wasn't aware of all the incredible things that are also happening. All the tools that we have at our disposal, all the ways that we have to resist whichever side of the pendulum ends up taking control next. But like, fuck, like, it makes sense. People are. I think people are pissed off and able to express that pissed offness. At least in the United States of America, where you can speak freely. In the uk, the lads can't do it, but the lads are pissed.
- [59:17]
B
I don't know if you've seen lighting
- [59:18]
A
things on, like, talk about.
- [59:19]
B
Instead, the lads are.
- [59:21]
C
The lads have had enough. Like, you've pushed the lads too far and the lads are. The lads are coming out.
- [59:26]
A
But like, I, I'll. I'll see it when it organizes itself and actualize, like, this is. This is just them letting some steam off. Yeah, you know, it's. And like so much of all of what's going on is, Is performative and that, that is, is part of the deepest spiritual suffering. Is that like. Like Covid's a great example there, There was like this moment of, of. Of like, maybe this virus kills everybody and there's like a big old fucking reset. And you know, 10 years from now I'm living somewhere in central Norway, like, farming with like a group of survivors, you know. But like, nope, that. That just turned out to be a fucking movie. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, there's this profound suffering that like, we can't actually change or make a difference to anything. And the problem is, is that like, what you're speaking to is this generalized brinkmanship that has become the battle between essentially communism and capitalism, like, in their various forms that like, both threatened to destroy the other. And in that, like, everyone is captured. And that's why I think, like, there needs to be this concerted effort for like, a radical third way. And like, I can, I can see it, but like, like, it's. I don't know, like having. Having faith that people would actually try to get themselves up after, like, intergenerational inheritance of this trauma. I don't know. And that, that's kind of the place that like, I'm not sure how you solve that problem of spiritual suffering. And like, I can't just say, like, turn, turn to Jesus and go to Your local church. But I don't know, like, maybe. Maybe it's something like that. Because it seems like. It seems like that idea and faith in there being a higher power and they're being able to be something that could get better and that we could cling to seems to have some credence that maybe we should consider a bit more.
- [61:20]
B
I heard this thing from Kanye west, who's a genius, by the way, that he said, when you fear God, you only have to fear one thing, but when you don't fear God, you have to fear everything. And I was like, holy shit, Kanye West. That is incredibly profound. And I have found that now that I am back in Christianity and I believe in God and I take the family to church, it takes a big weight off of me because I can just put it up to God and be like, you know, this is a spiritual battle between good and evil, and I have faith good's gonna win. And that makes my. That makes my lived experience of every day of my life better. And so, like, people are like, what do you get out of religion? Just believe in a man in the sky, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, dude, I. I do. And it makes my life pretty kick ass, actually, because, like, I don't have to fucking try and control everything because frankly, it's an impossibility anyway. Like, I can control some things. Pretty good at it. But, you know, there's these moments in life, like, Walker, you just had, like, you know, a big scare and everything you posted about it, and I'm. I'm sure you're still dealing with it. It's all still ongoing. And just these moments in life, they come up and they just hammer you. It's like you're trapped under the waves and you're just. You just keep getting dragged back down to the bottom over and over and over and over again. And you realize in those moments when they happen to you, how little control you really have over everything. And I think that there's a sort of a mental illness to try and, like, gain control over the uncontrollable, you know? Like, I think that sort of drives people insane. And when you just say, yeah, it's. It's all not up to me. It's all up to God. It's in God's hands. Like, there's some things that are up to me, but the vast majority of it is in God's hands. It makes your experience of just being alive better. Or at least that's what I've found. I'm not trying to tell other People what to do or how to live. But I went for a long time being like, I'm in control of everything, I'll figure it out, I'm pretty great. And just none of that was true. I wasn't able to control anything.
- [63:30]
C
This is the root of stoic philosophy too, right? Is this idea. You control what you can control and if you can't control it, stop worrying about it. Because there, there's, if there's like, and you know, if, if it is bearable, bear it. If it's endurable, endure it. If you can control it, control. And if you can't, like it, okay, like, you know, it's in God's hands, it's in whomever's hands. Like, you know, to your point, like this, this whole experience with Carl almost dying, like it's a. And, and I was also amazed the amount of people that reached out. Being like, you know, you know, didn't have the same situation, but like, hey, we, you know, like my wife almost bled out. Like my, you know, like, like you, you find out how many people go through things that you have absolutely no idea about and that change you in ways that you can't possibly imagine and that shed new light on how you prioritize things and what actually matters. And further, you realize to your point, like that boy, you, you have very little control. Like you can do everything exactly right. Like Carla, like in her pregnancy, eats well exercises, is grounding outside constantly in the sun, like does all of the possible things, you know, avoiding all the things you should avoid, eating all the things you should eat, doing all the right things and your fucking spleen explodes and it's a 1 in 10 million chance that you have a non pathological splenic rupture and you're that statistic. Like you're the one. And so then it's like, well, well fuck, okay then if that's the case, then like maybe trying to control everything and stressing about trying to control everything is not the path. Because even when you control all the things you can control, there are things so far outside of that control that will completely wreck you. Like, and also grateful to American paramedics and nurses and doctors and our incredible fucking healthcare system that is anywhere else in the world, she'd be dead. Also, like anywhere else in the world she would have been. Wait, they wouldn't have even gotten her in in the UK or in most places in Europe and that's the developed world. Anywhere in the so called third world, she's, she's gone most Places in Europe she's gone unless she got really lucky. But in America she was saved. And that is an incredible thing.
- [65:55]
B
I, I think this, just to put a button on this too. I, I think that there, there, when you look at the situation we're describing about the world we inhabit and the world we're going to continue inhabiting and the way the shape of the future looks, you're describing bondage. We're in bondage, right? And the only way out of bondage is great spiritual faith, which leads to great courage. And that's it. There's nothing, there's nothing else. You can't think your way out of it. You have to have great spiritual faith that you will win, that God wants you to win, that you've been anointed to win. And then you have to have the courage to go do what God wants you to do. That's it. That's how every great revolution in history happened. All of them.
- [66:44]
C
It, I think that we're reaching the point at least this is a feeling like a purely vibes based feeling that like we're reaching a point where you can only push people so far before they say enough. And I think that we're kind of reaching that point. You even look at, we talked about, you know, case and I think sometimes people, Eric might be surprised to hear from you just because, you know, you're always, you know, fuck the state and all these things. And like they, they'd be like, well then why is he so like pro American? Why?
- [67:18]
D
What is.
- [67:18]
C
Because they can't possibly differentiate America the idea from America, the government. But this, this, this issue that we have right now in America, I think, where you actually have so many people. You look at what's happening in New York right now with Mamdani and his multiple picks who are just like blatantly American hating communists. Like they, they, they hate America. Like that is, that is a really like. It's, it's insane to me that we've gotten to the point where the ideology and, and its implementation, communism, which has killed 100 million people in the last years, 100 years conservatively, is now like en vogue for people to just be like, yeah, I'm a, I'm a communist, I'm a mart. Like what? You know, it's just insane that we're at that point and then that you have people who can be elected to office that will just trash talk the country that took them in. Like, that's, that's insane to me. And that is quite insidious. I Think. And I don't know how exactly you fix that, but it probably is going to make a lot of people very unhappy because we'll have to start having some really uncomfortable conversations.
- [68:29]
A
I mean, I think, like, like, I, I, I get how all of this happened and played out and all of the half truths. Did my audio just go off?
- [68:43]
B
We lost.
- [68:44]
C
I might have accidentally tapped on the screen. I might have fucked it up. No, that was my fat finger. Sorry, man.
- [68:50]
A
No, it's all right. Can you hear me now?
- [68:52]
B
Yep.
- [68:52]
C
We got you. First time podcasting. Sorry.
- [68:55]
A
No, no, it's okay. My first time, too. Like, it's understandable to me how, yeah, all the half truths that have, like, made up the current dialogue of, like, what and how Marxism is, like, got us to this place. And also, like, there's a lot of justification that can be said around, like, what the American government and the military industrial complex has done, like, over the last hundred years. And, like, it's important to understand, like, there was this history, like, for the, you know, really, like, the first 80 years of the United States history, like, we didn't invade foreign countries, and then, like, this sort of imperialism sort of metastasized on top of the American ideals, which, like, there's half truth to all these things. And to me, like, this is part of sort of the larger revolutionary ideal that actually, like, set off, like, really, what was the liberal revolution? Like? It came from a distinctly American idea. It was imported or exported to France where, like, the, you know, Thomas Jefferson was one of the key writers of, like, the Rights of Man as well. And it's this, this radical idea that, like, men can choose amongst themselves what's best and good for themselves. And that, like, we, we not only have the capacity to do that, but we have the right to be able to do that. Like, that's the thing that Americanism contains that I think is really important. That, like, our Constitution is one that purportedly is supposed to be based on ensuring that the government can't violate these certain principles. We've strayed a hell of a far ways away from it, but it's a pretty great ideal to be striving towards and a hell of a lot better than any other document in human history that I personally know of. But, like, if you can find me, the beautiful communist doctrine that actually ensures and justifies itself in a way. And, like, I think all this is interesting because, like, I. There's a lot of important dialogue and understanding to be had around, like, what Marxism is, what communism is, what socialism is. Like how all of these things function that like, it's really big and hefty and requires like a lot of thoughtful understanding and reading that, you know, I think 99.9% of people are unavailable for. So like, we're kind of stuck in this stupid dialogue where like we're always going to talk past each other. And so unless people are really willing to sit down and have a sincere intellectual dialogue first and foremost, it's going to be difficult and fiery. But as long as we're trying to get to the truth, yeah, like, I, I don't think anything's really going to change. Like, propaganda is going to reign supreme.
- [71:28]
C
It seems that from a, like a propaganda standpoint, okay, this is a slight digression, but also still on the topic of, let's say, Americanism, which is one of the most interesting things I've seen, which is not even technically like purposeful propaganda, but just reality, reality. Coming up to butt against people's propagandized beliefs is the incredible instance of the World cup in the US where you have all of these mainly like Europeans, but like people from all over the world, obviously. But like seeing people come and be like, holy shit, mate. Like what, what spot about it? Whatever, you know, expressions they say to, you know, exclaim in various countries, like the uk but like coming here and being like, holy shit, wait a minute, maybe everything I've been told about America isn't true. I guess there, it's not as awful as everyone said and it's like, oh my God, you're right. Like no shit.
- [72:33]
D
Maybe there's a reason that all of
- [72:34]
C
your highest achieving people have been trying to come here for a long time, right? Maybe there's a reason like that everybody still wants to come here despite this capitalist hellhole that apparently it is still all the communists want to come. It doesn't make any sense. But like, it's the reality. But like, I feel like this is radicalizing for people, you know what I mean? Because they go back home with stories now about, mate, America, not what we were told, huh? They don't even have Pakistani Muslim rape gangs roaming the streets in it, you know, like, I don't know, it's. It feels like a, it feels like an important moment that will only be seen as so important, perhaps after the fact.
- [73:12]
B
The Euros have this totally wrong perception of us that like, they think that we're all like, I don't know, like, we got guns all the time and stuff. And it's like, I don't know where they get this Idea, it doesn't make sense to me. And I'm just like, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, okay, like, why do you think we all walk around like with just a gun in our hands all day long? It's like so weird. And one thing that's been great to see about the Europeans is. Or I think the big thing when you go, when you go over there versus when you go over here is like the Euros have realized just how rich America is. Like, America is so prosperous, right? And you go down to Tuscaloosa, Alabama and people are prospering, right? And we all, we all sit around and talk about how poor we are all the time and how it. We're not doesn't go as far as used to, right? All that kind of. But when you go over to Europe, man, they are desperately poor. They're so much poorer than you think they are. Like, I like there was, there's this chicken shop in the UK everybody likes called Nando's. And it's like, you know the rap, all the drill rappers.
- [74:15]
C
Chicken Nandos.
- [74:16]
B
Yeah, so, so I was like, I'm gonna go to Nando's. Because, you know, I heard all the drill rappers talk about it. I told a bunch of people I was going to Nando's. I'm like, I'm going to Nando's. And they're like, ah, Mike, be expensive, isn't it? And I was like, is it? And they're like, yeah, it's expensive as hell. And I got over there, I order a bunch of just whatever I want, you know, I'm like, I'll take this, I'll take that, one of those, give me some sauce. And the lady's like, it'll be 22, 22 pounds, you know. And I was like, okay, so just like a normal amount of money for lunch then. Like, I don't. Why did everyone tell me it was so expensive? You know, it's because they're poor. They're legit. And like, I feel bad for them. Like they shouldn't be poor. They're. They're not poor because of a moral failing. They're poor because their government has stepped on their necks and has over regulated them and has not allowed them to prosper. That's why they're poor. And we're going to become like them the more we do socialism, you know, I also, when I'm over in Europe, I have this like thought where I'm just like, am I looking into a future of America? Is this America's future. Everything's in decay and everybody's poor and they're like, you know, just sort of, like, medicating their pain away, and everything's a little, like, violent and sketchy, you know what I mean? I don't know, man. All I know, it ain't like they told you about America, y'. All, okay?
- [75:34]
A
You.
- [75:36]
C
I. I don't know. This. See, this is why it's great to stream this on Nostr. Because I'm. I'm. I don't. I'm not sure what YouTube's policy on. On the right to carry and bear arms is, but we're about to find out later.
- [75:47]
B
This is. This is not a real gun, okay?
- [75:50]
C
It's a. Oh, thank goodness. It's a replica.
- [75:53]
B
Replica toy.
- [75:55]
C
Yeah.
- [75:55]
B
Yeah, perfect.
- [75:57]
C
I have many replica guns as well.
- [75:59]
B
It's empty.
- [76:00]
C
There we go.
- [76:00]
B
There's no mag in it. It's fake.
- [76:03]
A
If the.
- [76:04]
C
If the algorithmic overlords are hearing this and reading this transcript right now, just know that this was all just a funny joke. This was actually American Huddle. Identifies as an unloaded gun. So this is part of his self expression. Actually. He's trans firearm or something. I don't know.
- [76:24]
A
Well, and so, like, what's this whole thing that, like, we have to, like, you're not doing anything illegal, but, like, we know it'll get us banned from pretty much every platform. And so, like, there's already this. This extraordinary degree of censorship that's going on. Like, we can't. We can't even speak unspeakable things, even though, like, you know, we could utter whatever racist and derogatory terms that we would want to hear. It would be a bit lowbrow, but it would maybe prove the point. But it's more of that, like, what's happened with this policing of language, with this persecution of thought and, like, how much has that drift into this particular subset of reality been part of that programming and controlling. That's really part of a spiritual suffering. And, like, it's. It's probably the most profound and deep thing that I think everyone feels and understands. And, yeah, like, it's truly. It's truly the deepest suffering that I think there is, and I think that all people today probably share, but I think it's much more the youth, because, like, the. The totalizing foreclosure on the future. Like, there. There was some podcast recently, like, Danny Knowles posted a clip, I think it was Danny who posted it, of these guys talking about how, like, give up on trying to, like, Own a home? Like, why would you want to do that? And like the, I don't know, it's just so profoundly sad. It's like you, you're, like, you're a surf again. Like, you don't, you don't even own your land. And like, what, what can you ever build or develop for yourself? Like, how do you, how do you ever really integrate into a community when like you're, you're always. Can be kicked off the land at any point in time and like, you can't, you can't upgrade your shitty faucet because you don't actually own it? You know, why even plant a fruit tree, like, you'll, you won't be there to actually bear the fruit of it. And it's like there's, there's this sort of hatefulness that's baked itself into, to the totalizing defeat of like, why even believe in God? Like, what, what could you get from that other than more suffering? And it's like, I, I understand you, homie, but like, man like it, I'm sorry it's so dark out there for you. And I get it. For most people, like, they don't, they don't see the radical empowerment that they could get from something like Bitcoin or like AI or like how it opens up these new frontiers and possibilities that, you know, can deliver their wildest dreams and then some, but they can't even look at it because they're so defeated, you know, and it's, that's part of what has people hand themselves over to communism. Like, I, like, I'll never be special and unique, so might as well put myself in with the sludge at least. Like, I'll get, I'll get my little piece. Like, I'll at least get to have some tiny little one bedroom block within a Soviet tower in New York, right? Like that's, that's better than what I've been offered by this current paradigm.
- [79:10]
C
Yeah, this is bad. This is the problem. This is my, Carlo's dad, my father in law, he was a defector from communism. Like got, you know, back in, back in those days, like you got polygraphed by the FBI for a couple weeks when you were a communist defector. Because they were like, okay, defector, wink, wink. Like we, you know, we, we used to have a little healthy skepticism about these things. But it tells me like this was the fundamental problem. I mean, one of the many fundamental problems with communism though is when you do not have private property, when you do not have ownership of anything, when all ownership is collective. Nobody is incentivized to actually make things better. You make things better because you own them. When you, to your point, Kayson, like, you're never going to plant a fruit tree. You in, In a, In a rented, you know, a rented yard, right? You're going to plant, like, you're going to plant a fruit tree when you own it, when your children can sit under the shade of that tree and eat from its fruit. Like, that's when you will plant a fruit tree because you know it is yours. And even if you rent it from the government, right? Even if the government, if you don't pay your taxes, they'll come and they'll take it from you with a. You know, they'll. They'll bring a SWAT team if you don't pay the, you know, pay the government long enough. But this is the fundamental problem. This is why everything in communism disintegrates. This is why everything in communism falls into disrepair, is because there is no incentive for people to take care of collective property. There may be in small enough groups, maybe underneath Dunbar's number, right? Maybe, yes, that, like, not, not denying that, but we're. Now we're talking about communes, not communism, right? And so as soon as you have things that are just, it's. We. Everyone owns it. Well, then it's like, okay, well, then I'm gonna take a. Over there.
- [80:47]
B
Yeah.
- [80:47]
C
You know, and like, like, everything falls in disrepair, everything disintegrates. You as a society, you need private property in order for people to be incentivized, to improve what they own. Otherwise they will not do it.
- [81:02]
B
There was this.
- [81:03]
A
I can't help but think of where we started in the beginning, talking about, like, the love for everybody and like the same thing, like, how can you really love anyone if you're loving everyone?
- [81:13]
B
You can't. It's like there was this discourse on X took place a couple, I don't know, maybe a year ago, where there were these articles that were written that said, you know, black neighborhoods don't have shade, and it's racist because they don't have trees. They don't have shade. Everything's a little hotter, makes people a little angrier, increases violence, whatever, whatever. It's. And it's racism that's doing this. And the response from people was like, okay, well, just go plant trees. Like, if black people want trees in these neighborhoods, plant trees. And black people were like, how are we supposed to plant trees when we don't own the neighborhood, right? And it's like, okay. It's actually a compelling point because if you are a renter, you're not going to plant a tree, but you could. How much does a tree cost? Just go plant a tree. You know, especially if you live in a place where shit grows. Like, look at. Look at where Eric is. You can just throw seeds in Eric's backyard and shit'll just fucking grow, right? So if you're in one of those places, just toss some seeds around. The cost of it is zero. I. So I don't understand where the thinking comes from that, like, you can't have shade if you want shade. But it is actually an interesting metaphor, the. The shade of a tree. Because, you know, it's like, okay, as an individual, if you want to have a good life, you have to delay gratification and you have to, like, you know, the tree is a metaphor. You plant the tree when you're young, you sit under a shade when you're old, you give it to your descendants, you pass it on. And societies grow great when men plant trees under whose shade they'll never sit. So you. You have a tragedy of the commons, right? And you decide, I'm going to get over the tragedy of the commons by giving. By giving to others. I'm go. I'm going to be Johnny Appleseed. I'm going around throwing apple seeds all over the place. That was. That was a real guy who did that in America, real person. And he was like, I'm Johnny Apple seeds. I'm throwing apple seeds. Right? And he just took it.
- [83:00]
C
Undiagnosed autism also, he definitely was autistic,
- [83:03]
B
but he took it upon himself to be Johnny Appleseed and just throw apple seeds everywhere. And, you know, he's a legend now in American folklore because of that behavior. And there are actual apple trees that you can trace to this guy, right? So, I mean, that's just a great example. And I think there's like this thing Eric was talking about, like, the parasitic, you know, elite class, right? The elite class didn't used to be parasitic. I mean, they used to be obscenely wealthy. They used to be rich beyond all measurements. But they did give back. Carnegie and Rockefeller. And you can. You can question the method in which they gave back and say it wasn't appropriate, the Vanderbilts. But they did give back, and they felt like, you know, that was that part of their, like, sort of credo, because they were Christian men, most of them. I mean, like, Rockefeller was a devout Baptist. Right. For instance, and they felt that it was their ethic to, you know, Help others and help the commons in general to bring people up. And now it seems like we live in this world where all the billionaires build bunkers to get away from people, you know, and if they do give, you know, a hundred million dollars to this or that, where does it go? It goes. It goes poof. Basically, like, you never actually see it. Whereas you can go into a Carnegie Library in the Midwest in a small town today, and they're still dead, right? And they're, they're amazing little local libraries that have acted as a lifeblood for these towns for a hundred. A hundred years now. That's a great legacy. So people are like, carnegie was a piece of shit. I don't care. He built libraries, dude. Fuck you, right? But if you're like, mark Zuckerberg's a piece of shit, I'm gonna be like, yeah, he is. Fuck him.
- [84:43]
A
Like, what? The thing that I struggle to understand is like, how the fuck has San Francisco produced so many billionaires? And not one of those assholes has just been like, you know what? I'm gonna renovate the Sutro Baths. One of the most incredible fucking landmarks that San Francisco has. Like, I just don't get it. Like, it. The. The amount of good that they would do for their reputation is insane. And it's just like, I don't know. Anyways, if I'm a billionaire, that's my first major project.
- [85:10]
B
We're actually, we're actually actively hostile to charity too, right? Like, the DEI era showed that, like, it actually doesn't matter how much good you did if you did one wrong thing in the past. Oh, Eric said the N word on a podcast. Take his name off the building, right? It destroys charity. It destroys it because, like, and also, if you live in California, why the should you do charity?
- [85:29]
A
You.
- [85:30]
B
You pay 60 of your income. Government, you know, they should be doing the charity, but they don't. They just pocket all the money. So, yeah, again, these, these communists, these are all feedback loops and they're negative feedback loops. That's. That's why the systems don't work. You know,
- [85:48]
C
I think it gets worse before it gets better too. Like, it, it feels as though things are coming to a bit of a head and I don't know. Go ahead, Casey.
- [85:59]
A
Like 20, 28. In the reactionaryism, like the, like the, the irony is, is that like this Trojan horse thing is like a two way street. And so, like, we're captured up with all the crypto too. And like, they're, they're. They're gonna come to like this is not gonna be pretty. And so like, I'm, I'm pretty sure that like, in that like, like when I get black bagged, like, you guys should take that as like a good sign to like get going because, like, I've already sort of admitted that like that's probably coming. Yeah, exactly. So like, like, try to come and take it. It's gonna be fun, but it's fucked up. But like, this is part of the reality we live within and we should probably actually like try to preempt all this before it goes down. And like that's, that's the whole reason I'm being pedantic about this cryptography, AI organization thing. Like there's no ability to do it, you know, and I think it's really important and the gap we have here is like pretty small. And so I think it's really important that people sort of try to recognize and self empower themselves. And I don't know, I keep hoping that like something will just kind of blossom on its own, but maybe not. It's, it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.
- [87:17]
C
You know, perhaps now we've, we've gone around enough for you to talk about Vora a little bit because somebody, Keith Meola did say in the Noster chat, completely off topic and I'm not looking for more than a one sentence answer for a question for Eric. I joined the Vora wait list many moons ago before Aegis. Do I need to join again for Aegis? And then also Eric, what is Vora while, while we're here, you know?
- [87:41]
A
Yeah, so Aegis is the actual piece of hardware that Vora is going to be shipping. And so Vora is the company that I co founded with my best friend and co founder, Jesse Posner. We met a decade ago at Coinbase and like our first paragraph of conversation started talking about Carl Schmidt and Heidegger and Bitcoin. So like, that's the predication of our whole relationship to Keith real quick, like, thanks for signing up. You should probably sign up again. We're switching wait lists because we're going to start this big marketing push because, yeah, what we're essentially building, and it's been really hard to describe, but it's really this new class of AI hardware. And I kind of figured out like we're kind of building the first real AI hardware harness because at the end of the day, like our hardware is going to cryptographically verify and offer attestation to it through the hardware directly of a Privileged separated architecture. So there's actually solves in AI something that's called the lethal trifecta, which more or less is like if you give your AI read and write capacity and like they can search the Internet and they have the ability to like read private data, you can like prompt inject anyone and like prompt injection is like an inherent linguistic feature of like how reading itself operates. Like it's you. You can't solve this by any degree of filtering. You actually have to have like architecture that is designed not to talk to one another. And so Jesse and his brilliance has developed an entire secure system that offers the ability for hardware to testify to itself with this privileged separated architecture. And he's built all the software with it. So I've been messing around really with like we've really kind of birthed this thing in the last few weeks. We've been planning it for about the last year. But like the software, the pieces of hardware dialing in like the actual open source AI that we want and like the software suite, like components of it will be open source and source available for that which isn't open source. Because it's like a really powerful methodology to be able to actually use AI with really private and sensitive data that like you will be targeted and prompt injected. And even if you have decent filtering like you are going to get fucked at some point in time. So you really have to start treating your own private data with the same sensitivity as Bitcoin private keys. And that's kind of where we started out and what we're trying to build. And so we hired an amazing head of hardware, Nicholas George, who he's been helping us like on the hardware side and we finally started dialing that in and locking it in. Yeah. And we have designs and specs and so we're looking at, we really see this as kind of like the 1975 Apple play that. Like in 1975 nobody saw that there was going to be this need for a personal computer that was kind of crazy. And so like we see the same need that like there's going to be a need for like a personal methodology of AI and speaking to the Tesla robots, like you're going to need to have great isolated high grade security if you want to protect your robot's private keys and make sure that your robot isn't going to smother you in the middle of the night. So this is our whole sort of brainchild project that we've been working on. And Aegis, which is actually the name of Athena's SHIELD is because we believe that it shields you and your capacity and cognitive understanding of the world from how it's going to be infected by essentially corporate AI and the propaganda that is going to really be kind of what it is moving forward.
- [91:19]
C
Love it. And, Keith, you got more than one sentence from Eric, so you're. You're welcome for that. Guys, I've kept you a little bit over time already. You're both busy dudes. I appreciate you both very much. I would like to ask, what do you think the chances are of us starting an air conditioning distribution business for Europe as the last talking point? Are you guys into it? Is this something you'd invest in? Because I think I've got. I've got the networks already. We've got the products already exist. Guys, this seems like wide open green pasture. Like, you know, I'm going to pivot from being, you know, a bitcoin guy into a European air conditioning guy and just save them from themselves. Thoughts?
- [91:57]
B
Okay, there's two routes we could go with this company. We smuggle in air cons. That's what they call them over in Europe. We smuggle in air cons. Okay. Or we smuggle in guns, and then we let them buy their own air conditioners. You know, I'm just saying we smuggle
- [92:14]
C
in smuggling guns inside the AC units, perhaps.
- [92:18]
A
You know what I mean? Like, they're giving them the full American experience right there.
- [92:22]
C
There you go. Europe will rise again with AC and guns. This is what they need. This is the freedom that they deserve.
- [92:31]
B
This pal. This pallet says it's air conditioners. Yeah, they look like AR15s. I mean, they get. It's a whole thing. They get to the air conditioners eventually.
- [92:41]
C
Something about getting iced. I think there's a joke in there somewhere. Yeah. But dudes, appreciate. Is there anything else you guys want to. Want to leave folks with? And people should check out Vora also. Vora IO, right, Kason.
- [92:57]
A
Yes, Vora IO. Yeah. And I can't say enough about how brilliant and thoughtful my co founder is, and he's been the technical lead on this whole thing. And so he has done a profound job doing it, and I feel very lucky to be working on something so powerful and thoughtful with him.
- [93:17]
B
So Jesse's awesome.
- [93:19]
C
I want to. I want to hang out with Jesse more. We've only done one pod together, you know, and I've been itching for more since.
- [93:27]
A
We'll make it happen at some point. Let's.
- [93:30]
C
Let's do it. Hodo, what's up with you, you got your moped business still going well or what's the deal?
- [93:38]
B
I would like to leave the audience with my childlike sense of wonder and whimsy. Stay whimsical, y', all, okay? It's important. Don't lose your whimsy during the dark times. So just like go out there and like do some skips, you know, there in a rainbow. Pick up a butterfly. You know what I mean? That's what I'd like to leave you guys, man. Do some whimsical skedaddling, you know, Just get after
- [94:12]
D
is the best.
- [94:13]
C
This is like one of the great things about having kids, right? And you guys both know this. You're both farther along this journey than I am or further along this journey than I am. I hate when I misuse further, farther. Excuse me, idiot. But like, you, you start to appreciate. You're like, holy shit. Like, yeah, that is a crazy cloud. Or like, yeah, we're growing strawberries right now. And my son, every time there's like, they're. They're just starting to come ripe in bunches right now, but it's been like one strawberry at a time. And you know, we, every day he's like, I want to go to the garden and see if there's any strawberries that are ready. You know, walk over there and like none of them are ripe yet. But he just like, well, still he's like, this one looks pretty good. Like, picks it, picks it off. Like it's still like green, you know, like, and I've. And he'll, you know, he's fed these green ones to me. They are sour as hell, but he just loves it. And he's like, like, like it's, it's
- [94:59]
D
a strawberry that I can just pick
- [95:01]
C
and I can eat. It's not from the store. And it's like, yeah, that is fucking cool, man. Like, that's fucking cool. Going down that slide is fucking cool. Looking at that butterfly, that lightning bug. That's fucking cool. So, yeah, amen to that. Do not lose your sense of whimsy. And, and when you see somebody else experiencing the wonderful whimsy of the world, tap right into that because it's a beautiful thing.
- [95:21]
B
It's so, it's so true. I, I act more like a toddler when I hang out with my toddlers than they, like, I don't act like an adult. I'm just, I just act like one of them. I like fully regressed a four year old, you know, American homo. It's so much fun. I love It.
- [95:38]
C
It's a beautiful thing. Well, guys, I appreciate both of your time. Always a treat. I appreciate everybody who tuned into this on Noster. These are always the highest viewership of any of the Noster live streams. I do when I get you guys on here. Thank you guys for the zaps that you sent. I appreciate you sending, especially in a. In a. In a bear market where bitcoin's dead. I appreciate all of you all. Thank you guys.
- [96:02]
A
Likewise. Thanks for people that listen in. It's always. It's always great to. To meet people in the. In the flesh and yeah, I sound angry, but, like, the. The future is bright and wonderful and. Yeah, don't lose your whimsy. I was. I was checking out a scorpion with kids yesterday. It was pretty cool. So go find some of that California man.
- [96:19]
C
That's, you know, that's. That's wild scorpion. We just.
- [96:23]
B
I will leave you with this one. Is that when me and. It was me, Eric, our friend Sam and Curtis Yarvin on the Uber together in. In casual on our way to the beef steak. And I was. I was up front or like in the back? In the front, I could see the. The Uber driver, and he was just going, what the. Like, he couldn't conceptualize what he was hearing in the car. And he was like. It was just like so far out of his scope of reference, like, any of the conversations, because it was all insane, you know, like, insane conversation. And those are. Those are the best times. I love. I love, like, getting together with Eric and, you know, talking and you, Walker, so much fun.
- [97:06]
A
Yeah, it's good times. Yeah. I love you both. It's good. Look forward to the next time I see you guys in meat space.
- [97:12]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to get. Getting back out there in the meat space once. Once we get this. This baby. This baby out the door. And hopefully we have a very uneventful life after that. That's what I'm hope open for. Lack of eventfulness, but appreciate you guys. Love you dudes. And thank you to everybody who tuned in. We appreciate each and every one of you. Cheers.
- [97:40]
D
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast. Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening, and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the Internet. Find me on noster@primal.net walker and this podcast@primal.netcoin on X, YouTube and Rumble. Just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Coin Podcast. Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links, head to substack.com walker America to get EPIC episodes emailed to you. And head to bitcoin podcast.net for everything else. Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast. Until next time, stay free.