← THE Bitcoin Podcast
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- [00:00]
Stephen
Basically the breakthrough was that bitcoin is a vibe. And prior to understanding that bitcoin is a vibe, some of these asset managers were trying to fit bitcoin into an existing investment model. Free cash flows, certain government models, all of these things. They're trying to put bitcoin into a spreadsheet, into a formula, into a way of thinking about these things. And there really was no way to value bitcoin. People have talked about this forever. It's realizing, and it was this capital allocator realizing you can't do that. Bitcoin doesn't fit into that. Bitcoin is a vibe and it's one of the best vibes in the world. And you can chart its success as a vibe over the last over a decade. And once you realize that that's what it is and that bitcoin investing is vibes investing, then this all starts to make sense.
- [00:56]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Foreign plebs.
- [01:05]
Walker
My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast. Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes. And the value of one bitcoin is still one bitcoin. If you are listening to this right now, remember you are still early. Find me on noster@primal.net Walker and this podcast@primal.net Titcoin on X, YouTube and Rumble. Just search Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram @itcoin podcast. Head to the show notes for sponsor links. Head to substack.comwalkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you. And head to bitcoin podcast.net for everything else. Without further ado, let's get into this bitcoin talk.
- [02:00]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I realized that perhaps the Austrian economic idea of human action and subjective value is actually just vibes based investment and vibe economics. And I think they're actually one in the same. Like Mises was actually just talking about vibes this whole time, you guys. And I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm too deep down the vibe rabbit hole, but I'm pretty sure that human action is just vibes.
- [02:28]
Stephen
If you look for a vibe, vibes form the basis of knowing, right? So at the bottom of the. The way in which we know, so the way in which we are able to know, like first there are vibes and then on top of vibes, we build more formal systems and we have to think of everything in that way.
- [02:50]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's true. And, you know, maybe so. Just an FYI, Stephen, we are live streaming this only on nostr. Then it will be published via all the usual centralized platform channels later. But where do we want to start with this? You as our fearless leader, I feel like need to provide us some vibe based direction, but what a whirlwind it's been. And also, is that an official company.
- [03:13]
Walker
Tank that you're wearing there?
- [03:15]
Stephen
Yes.
- [03:16]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Oh, wow. Wow, look at that.
- [03:20]
Stephen
In the capital markets by storm. You know, I'm hearing from fund managers all over the world, they're, they're loving the tank top.
- [03:28]
Sam Bankman-Fried
So it's amazing to see the vest sales also skyrocket because I feel like VC funds were in kind of a drought in terms of, you know, driving vest sales. But this is really what they needed was a Vibes based approach to vest sales. And I think we're seeing the fruits of that right now.
- [03:45]
Rob
They need more Sundance that are appropriate.
- [03:47]
Stephen
I know, I know.
- [03:50]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I say amen to that. I say amen to that.
- [03:52]
Stephen
Yeah, we're working on the sundresses. And also, you know, it's not just vest sales that are in a drought with vc. It's VC funding period has been very low. And so we think we kind of have a solution for that here. I think capital providers, they're just, they're, they're, they're not, you know, if they have to attend another board meeting in Silicon Valley with some patagonia vest wearing MBAs, it's like you want to, you want to call your eyes out, like, let's kill the vibe in the sun tank tops. Give me a check for $10 million. It's going to be great.
- [04:24]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs was actually a huge fan of walks in the sun for meetings. And you know, I feel like that was actually kind of marked the decline of, of Silicon Valley more broadly was the movement away from walk based meetings, you know, like, and it's a, it's.
- [04:41]
Walker
A tradition as old as time too.
- [04:42]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Like this goes back to the Greeks and the Romans. Like, why do we try to continually fix things that are not broken?
- [04:48]
Walker
What is that?
- [04:49]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's anti Vibe culture, really.
- [04:52]
Rob
They used to walk and philosophize. We're bringing that back.
- [04:57]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's the best way. It's the best way. Do we want, should we perhaps start actually just to set the stage with a quick round the horn introduction of everybody and your very official title at Vibes Capital Management, perhaps. Stephen, we start with you.
- [05:12]
Stephen
Yeah, so I'm one of the founders along with Bitpain and I am the chief Vibes Officer for Vibes Capital Management. And just a pleasure to be here.
- [05:21]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah. Sam Bankman, Fried, over to you. Next.
- [05:25]
Mags
Yeah, this is me, spf. I am the vice president of custodial services at Vibes Capital Management, AKA the team's janitor.
- [05:36]
Stephen
Mags, and a very important hire for us, you know, it's huge hire. Yeah, a lot.
- [05:41]
Mags
It's very awkward. I'm still in my old office, obviously, the, the Bitcoin Policy Institute, but my, you know. Yeah, it's, it's awkward. It's kind of like a breakup. But I'm, you know, I can't make rent, so I'm still living with my ex. It's, you know, but the vibes are. Despite this, the Vibes are actually immaculate. So just really, really, really excited to start this chapter of my career.
- [06:05]
Stephen
Yeah, no, us too. And I mean, we got several great people from Bitcoin Policy Institute, which I'm sure is a blow. I mean, I know that's been hard to integrate, but.
- [06:15]
Mags
Well, it's just a, just a direct correlation to my leadership.
- [06:18]
Rob
You know, the administration has embraced bitcoin. They are on to better, more.
- [06:25]
Mags
We're. We're fucking done. We wrapped it up. You know, they, they did the bit.
- [06:29]
Sam Bankman-Fried
They, they said, mission accomplished, bitcoin.
- [06:32]
Mags
And then they made it illegal to not be a bitcoin maximalist. So, you know, we're just phoning it in anyway.
- [06:36]
Tatum Turnup
All right, boys, job's done. Let's go home.
- [06:39]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean, I mean. But really talk about a vibe shift though. Like that, like that's really what it was like a fundamental paradigm altering vibe shift that you were able to orchestrate. I mean, how can you not move on to a Vibes based company after that? It's just, it's a pure play vibe, you know?
- [06:57]
Mags
Yeah, I completely agree. So yeah, Sam Bankman Fried reporting to unclog the creatine poop.
- [07:09]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Mags. You want to follow that up?
- [07:12]
Rob
That is exciting. Much more serious. So I am the Vibe to flow strategist of the strategic Vibes reserve. Every company needs to establish a strategic Vibes reserve. In fact, it's a national security imperative. Let's just leave it there.
- [07:28]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I like that approach, Rob.
- [07:31]
Robert Warren
Love it. My name is Robert Warren and you know, I'm really here to reestablish what we have forgotten as a people, which is that that there are vibes and they should be noticed before they can be appreciated or more importantly, vibed with. So it's really a pleasure to be here as the senior director of Vibe noticing at Vibe Capital Management, because this is the ground level. This is where the Vibes, which are already around us, not Being appreciated day by day. We really have to surface this in the consciousness of the average investor that the vibes are there. They've been there the whole time and they are immaculate and they want you to participate in them. So really it's, it's the noticing that sets the stage for all future acting on the vibe.
- [08:18]
Mags
Well, and the noticing is a prerequisite for the vibe's arbitrage, which is.
- [08:22]
Robert Warren
That's right.
- [08:22]
Mags
The principal ways we make money as a fund. It's just because, like you said, the vibes are there. We're just kind of arbing them.
- [08:28]
Sam Bankman-Fried
So.
- [08:28]
Robert Warren
Well stated, Sam.
- [08:31]
Stephen
Like a huge oversight. Like, you have funds that, like, you can invest in companies where the vibes are great and you can short companies where the vibes are terrible, but for.
- [08:43]
Tatum Turnup
Some reason, stinky vibes, it just doesn't.
- [08:46]
Stephen
Fit into anyone's model. They're not doing this. And it's just a, you know, our arbitrage fund has done very well with the strategy.
- [08:53]
Rob
And even more critically, when you find those startups that have the right vibe, you know, those are the ones that are going to make it like, you know, within the first five minutes. Are the vibes there or the vibes off? Vibe check, guys. Right? And that's where you make your biggest returns.
- [09:09]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Absolutely. Speaking of vibe checks, this next speaker may need a vibe check, but we'll let him go anyway. I believe he's here. We're not sure if he's. He's going to stay with us the whole time on this, on this call because of some things that were said earlier, but we'll, we'll let him go for now. Tatum Turnip. I believe what was said earlier.
- [09:30]
Tatum Turnup
What? Did I miss something that I said? Well, I'm Tatum Turnup. I am the managing director of ASIC Sourcing Strategy, Abbreviated ASS Always. And I, unlike, unlike other sourcing other procurement methods, we take the approach of answering all of those LinkedIn DMs, even if the account has nothing else on it. You know, we're looking for diamonds in the rough. And you know what, there's a lot of rough out there, but there might be a lot of diamonds too. So I just vibe it out, see how the conversation goes.
- [10:11]
Stephen
In dms do we get about ASICS in a given week?
- [10:16]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I.
- [10:17]
Tatum Turnup
We gotta increase our server capacity and upgrade our premium membership because I've made some, I've tried to do those mass connections and I'm up to like 50,000 connections and all very real and legitimate people, I think, and most of them are deeming me to sell asics, which I don't know why everyone is like freaking out about, you know, prices going up. I got plenty that are way cheaper, so.
- [10:43]
Sam Bankman-Fried
All right, you were front running those, those tariffs based on a little bit of Vibe arbitrage, it seems. Exactly.
- [10:49]
Tatum Turnup
So that's great.
- [10:51]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Well, you know, I'll take a moment just to. I believe I'm actually the newest member of the Vibes Capital management team, so really happy to be part of this group. SVP Supreme Vibes podcaster was happy to coordinate this Vibe sesh, this Vibecast, I should say, with all of you today. Did I yesterday buy about two dozen different Vibes based domains related to vibing and podcasting? Yes, I did. Yes, I did.
- [11:16]
Tatum Turnup
And we love you for it.
- [11:18]
Mags
And was that an incredible financial decision?
- [11:21]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Absolutely, yeah. 100%. Will those perform better than Bitcoin? I mean, the Vibe feels like yes.
- [11:29]
Robert Warren
Yeah, the Vibe is good.
- [11:31]
Sam Bankman-Fried
But I wanted to add these to our intellectual property also because I think that Vibes based podcasting is really just kind of goes hand in hand with Vibes based investing. And that's why the Bitcoin podcast is really happy. You know, I'm basically like a Jack Mallers where I'm keeping my role as chief Podcasting Officer, CPO of the Bitcoin podcast, but but also moving into this tangential but complimentary role at the Vibes Capital Management. So I think I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
- [11:57]
Walker
We'll see.
- [11:58]
Stephen
Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, like, I mean, look no further than the rise of Vibes vibe coding. Right. Like, this has become a huge phenomena and so Vibe podcasting is next. And, you know, I think the market wasn't exactly ready for Vibe Capital Management, but here we are and we're going to carve out this terrain for our investors and shareholders.
- [12:22]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah, it's a really exciting time to be here. And maybe, you know, Stephen, because I think you've really explained this Vibes based approach very well and been kind of at the forefront of it very famously making a Vibe based call on the recent Bitcoin bottom calling it quite perfectly. Can you explain the Vibes at the time that led you to such a decision? And was this kind of one of the key things that made you realize, you know, what the Vibes based investing approach is really the only path forward?
- [12:52]
Stephen
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. I've been kind of managing money, my own money and others kind of using this approach for a number of years. I think me and Bitpain started talking about Vibes Capital Management back in late 2023. And we'd just kind of been in stealth mode, but in that recent bottom call, so, you know, I was very vocal and public that the bottom was in. This was Sunday evening. It was actually during the futures open. So the tariff fear had gripped the market, right? And everyone was worried about terrible vibes. You know, S and P was very low. Bitcoin was in the 70s, and everyone was talking about Black Monday. We're going to have a Black Monday. There was this thing that was going around, you might remember it, and. And the futures opened, and the futures opened down like 4 or 5% on the S and P. And in that moment, I just felt it was. It was peak bad vibes, peak fear. Everyone was betting on calamity the next day. And I saw a report that Scott Besant had flown to Mar A Lago that Sunday to talk with Trump. And Lutnick had been very at the forefront, doing all the. All the media talking to everybody, doing all of that. And, you know, Lutnick had bad vibes a little, to a certain degree. He was. He was harsh. You know, he was bringing down the vibe on the market, talking, you know, really intensely. And I just realized that, like, Besant was coming to talk with Trump. Now, Besant has had good vibes. Besant has been just in the forefront trying to manage the vibes. And I realized between the sense that the vibes had gotten as low as they could go, everyone was scared. And we had kind of an ambassador of good vibes coming to manage the situation. That's when I made that, you know, that bottom call. And, you know, if you bought bitcoin, then it was in the. It was in the 70s and you bought the S and P, you're up quite a bit if you bought stocks. I mean, you can't really have lost if you invested then. And it's because it was a. It was a Vibe pivot point. It was a moment where the vibes were moving from terrible to good. And we've been in a recovery since then. And many people have questioned, oh, but yields have moved higher. Oh, but valuations. Oh, but this. But there's still tariff impact, there's still economic impact. There's all these things happening. You don't understand. It's about the rate of change in the Vibes. And the vibes have been improving every week. As long as the vibes keep improving, asset prices trend higher.
- [15:43]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean, this is really kind of a. It's such a simple thesis, but really isn't Simplicity, ultimately the best when it comes to these sorts of decisions. I think so much in the Fiat world has been over complicated. It has been non Vibes based. I believe you called it in one of our recent meetings of vcm you called it the spreadsheetification of these investment decisions. And I think that really a return.
- [16:13]
Walker
To Vibes is just a return to common sense.
- [16:15]
Sam Bankman-Fried
And ultimately, I guess I'm curious what everyone's thoughts. I mean, is Bitcoin just the ultimate Vibe? Is that why it's really should be the cornerstone of any Vibes based investing approach?
- [16:27]
Rob
I think you raise a really good point and I think Stephen, maybe you're the, you're best able to talk about this, but we recently had a conversation with a large capital allocator and he finally got Bitcoin because he's like, it's just Vibes. Why don't you take it from there?
- [16:45]
Stephen
Yeah. So recently we were fortunate enough to engage with a, you know, a large capital manager, tens of billions of dollars, who was engaged and inspired by the Vibes capital management story. And he was following the firm and the launch of the firm and he actually was texting, he was texting David and David was texting me and we were all talking and you know, basically the breakthrough was that bitcoin is a Vibe. And prior to understanding that bitcoin is a Vibe, some of these asset managers were trying to fit Bitcoin into an existing investment model. Free cash flows, certain government models, all of these things. They're trying to put Bitcoin into a spreadsheet, into a formula, into a way of thinking about these things. And there really was no way to value Bitcoin. People have talked about this forever and it's realizing, and it was this capital allocator realizing you can't do that. Bitcoin doesn't fit into that. Bitcoin is a Vibe and it's one of the best Vibes in the world. And you can chart its success as a Vibe over the last over a decade. And once you realize that that's what it is and that bitcoin investing is Vibes investing, then this all starts to make sense.
- [18:12]
Walker
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- [20:22]
Rob
O and I think a good way to think about it if you're coming from the legacy market, right? Traffi think about goodwill, right? How much goodwill does Apple have? How much goodwill has met at any of these companies, right? The equivalent comparison is Bitcoin has vibes like Goodwill. That's the next level.
- [20:43]
Robert Warren
There's this underlying kind of technical trend that we've seen historically, right, where you reach a certain echelon of technical complexity and advancement. And people like to think of this as kind of the inevitable progression of man that we, we gradually add complexity to the system. But what we're, what we're saying here at Vibes Capital is something that's fundamentally different. What we're saying is that when technical innovation and complexity reaches a certain zenith, it actually collapses into something more simple, which is the vibe. And we've seen this. You know, Bitcoin just happens to be the most, the most vibiest of the vibes of recent history. It has, has the most resonance to it. But if you remember the first time you ever cracked open an iPhone and it was that one button and it was that screen that was like nothing else you'd seen in your entire life. And that wasn't actually added complexity. The complexity was in the system, all the engineering that had gone into building the iPhone. But the second you open up the iPhone, it all collapses into the Vibe. And the vibe is the new world of the smartphone. And so what we're really experiencing and where our expertise lives in generating all of this alpha is in recognizing that we haven't actually had to invest in the next more complex thing. We've focused our alpha and our investment on where has complexity collapsed into good vibes.
- [22:10]
Tatum Turnup
The complexity is within the simplicity.
- [22:13]
Robert Warren
That's right.
- [22:15]
Mags
True, true. You know, I think another thing that's just worth harping on is I think a lot of people in this space, they think about the distinction between custodial and non custodial services. You know, in a very sort of poor vibe, it's, they're far too polarized. They think if it's custodial, it's bad, if it's non custodial, it's good. But my last venture, FTX and Alameda, we didn't blow up because we were custodial. Blockfi, Celsius, these companies didn't blow up because they were custodial. They blew up because the vibes were bad. In the same way that if your vibes are bad and you're self custodying your digital asset, things can blow up, right? You try to have a geographically distributed multisig and you forget where you buried the damn thing. And that's just something I'm really excited to pioneer with this new venture, is recognizing that if you trust us with your assets, the security from our custodial services comes not from our, our opsec or our, you know, our sort of, you know, our tech, our back end, you know, we secure your funds with, with good vibes. And to my knowledge, there's never been a hack, a loss, a theft from any custodian that's ever treated user funds with the vibes they deserve. And I think that's the VCM guarantee. When you park money with us, you know we're going to vibe out with it.
- [23:50]
Stephen
You have to realize that to do something bad, right, like to make a reckless decision with user funds or to set up kind of a single point of failure that has no backups or to, you know, just take a reckless security decision before the action. There is a bad vibe. To even do the bad action, you need to first enter into a bad vibe, and the action follows from the vibe. The vibes are like, ontologically primary. And this is what we want people to understand, really. We're innovating on a level of direct experience, of phenomenological direct experience. And what you can do is you can just. If you notice the vibes in the right way, as Rob was talking about, you can phenomena phenomenologically ontologically discerning the arising of bad vibes before they turn into bad actions.
- [24:49]
Tatum Turnup
That's very evident throughout history, as you've seen. Remember one of the most prevalent examples that we see recorded in history, Pearl Harbor. There were awful vibes pre Pearl harbor, and those actions resulted from those vibes.
- [25:07]
Sam Bankman-Fried
You know, how harsh. But how about this? You know what we can talk about? The vibes during the French Revolution were absolutely terrible. And I think that ultimately, what do.
- [25:19]
Walker
Many of these bad vibes stem from?
- [25:21]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It comes from distortions in the market. Right? It comes from distortions in the market created by the debasement of the currency. Because what does that ultimately represent? It represents a disharmonic frequency. It represents something that is. It is literally an active wave destroying the vibes. Whereas there can be harmonics when the vibes are good.
- [25:44]
Stephen
Yes.
- [25:45]
Sam Bankman-Fried
This just creates a completely discordant market that is ultimately brought about by debasement. And what does it lead to? Well, it leads to death, destruction, and the guillotine. I mean, and that's ultimately like. That's when you want to see how bad vibes can get. I said. I say look no further than the French Revolution, but that's just me.
- [26:01]
Stephen
And so you.
- [26:02]
Tatum Turnup
You have to think about how you get to the good vibes. There are actions that create good vibes. And that's where you look at the word vibe as a verb. You have to vibe. You have to vibe around. You gotta. I'm just vibing, you know, that's how you kind of engage those good vibes to create the good times.
- [26:21]
Stephen
And you make a great point. You both touch on something important. And Walker, you said the word kind of harmonization. And. And this theme of harmony, I think, is actually really clear here. What it. What it supposes at its root is that there is a natural order to the world and that when things are in their right place, there is harmony. Where there is harmony, there are good vibes. And in the east, there's a concept called the rectification of names. And so this is this kind of Confucian concept of saying giving everything its right name for Example, you know, if you have an oak tree in your backyard, but you think it is a, a tomato plant and you treat it like a tomato plant, that oak tree is not going to thrive. You need to know its nature. You need to know its nature, you need to name its nature and you need to treat things in accordance with their nature. And so vibes, what they really result from is everything being in its right place in accordance with its own nature. And that's what we try to do. And we're trying to blend and unify capital management with the proper order and flow of the universe.
- [27:43]
Mags
It's about doing the right vibes at the right times for the right reasons. You know, this is just sort of.
- [27:49]
Robert Warren
Ancient wisdom and truly cyclical. Yeah. Oh, you know, it is something that fits within. I think the age old quote was probably misstated because really what we should say is that bad vibes create strong men, strong men create good vibes, good vibes create weak men, and weak men create bad vibes. And really it's a name of. As Steven is referencing, naming things and not lying. We really are in that time right now where we have to be the ones to create the good vibes. So while we may be early, in some sense, we've arrived just on time when the vibes were right for the increasing of the vibes.
- [28:31]
Sam Bankman-Fried
You know, Rob, I'm so glad you brought that up because I think we were actually vibrating on the same frequency there, because I was thinking the same thing. But as I was thinking through it, I was wondering if I could justify good vibes creating weak men, because perhaps this actually flips the script a little bit and perhaps good vibes can also create good men.
- [28:49]
Mags
Are you saying it's a super cycle of vibes?
- [28:52]
Sam Bankman-Fried
That's.
- [28:52]
Walker
It might be.
- [28:53]
Stephen
It is.
- [28:54]
Mags
It's just. It's up only forever.
- [28:57]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It might be.
- [28:59]
Robert Warren
This is hotly contested in the vibe literature. You know, it's a question of can you create good vibes such that they are oscillating at a frequency that self sustains? And really this is our emphasis on the noticing and the education of the vibes. Because when the vibes are good is at that very moment that you are most likely to forget, in fact, that the vibes are good.
- [29:23]
Tatum Turnup
Vulnerability is there.
- [29:24]
Robert Warren
Had you not experienced the bad vibes or the rising vibes or the falling of the vibes, you might believe that this is just the way the vibe is. And this is really the greater mission of what we're doing with vibes. Capital management is not just to establish that we are those who are. With the rising of the vibes, we're generating alpha. But if we can truly reach the next level, which is the, in some sense escape from the circle of vibes, which is a far more, a far more difficult task to undertake.
- [29:57]
Sam Bankman-Fried
You know, I'm wondering, did Ray Dalio. Go ahead. Go ahead, Mags. Then I'll talk about Ray Dalio's long term vibe cycles. Because I think that's really what he.
- [30:05]
Rob
Was getting at that. Right. Right away. But just to finish that last thought off, Rob especially, you know what VCM does is we are harnessing those vibes. Right? We are capturing them really. Where A digital battery for vibes.
- [30:20]
Stephen
Yes.
- [30:21]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Oh yes, I like that.
- [30:22]
Stephen
Yes. We really can store digital energy in a literal and non metaphorical way. There is literally energy that can be re accessed at a later point in time in the form of vibes.
- [30:39]
Tatum Turnup
All right guys, it's getting a little.
- [30:40]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Too real right now. Can vibe, can you encrypt a vibe?
- [30:44]
Matt Pines
Yeah.
- [30:45]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Is that the time.
- [30:47]
Mags
By the time you need to encrypt vibes, you won't have to, because that's the right.
- [30:55]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Well, I mean like if you think about it like perhaps like Vibes gets down to the idea of like the zero point field, you know, and like, I mean, but maybe that's, that's too deep for this conversation. I do want to get your guys thoughts on Ray Dalio adapting his theory of debt cycles. Perhaps we're looking at ultimately long term vibe cycles and this gets back to the idea of human action.
- [31:18]
Walker
Right.
- [31:19]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's these naturally cyclical patterns that emerge. What are those except vibe shifts ultimately?
- [31:26]
Walker
Right?
- [31:27]
Rob
Turning is a vibe shift.
- [31:29]
Stephen
It really is a vibe shift. That should be a quote coming out of this episode.
- [31:33]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah, yeah. And ultimately, I mean we can even get into like the kondratiative cycles if we want to. And I think that we're seeing right now a cyclical, a cyclical vibe convergence, we might call it a confluence of vibes at this particular moment in history. And I think that's something that ultimately most capital allocators aren't paying attention to. And I think that's why they will continue to underperform. They don't understand the confluence of different vibes and, and their amplification that happens as a result of that confluence. Like this is what I think. People are totally going to be misallocated.
- [32:09]
Stephen
They don't understand it, they're not looking for it and they do not know how to construct a portfolio of assets. That asymmetrically benefits from this event and that is what we are focused on doing. They don't. They have no model of which investments are the biggest beneficiaries of this confluence. And that asymmetry is something that our fund, our first fund, vibes cap signal one is rooted around.
- [32:43]
Robert Warren
Yeah. If you look at the zero to one thesis, which while a very powerful thesis is still been funded predominantly by this hyper investment type mentality, this kind of softbank, fiat minded, let me dump tens of billions of dollars into something and try to really kickstart this engine and just force it into existence. That's fundamentally a bad vibe.
- [33:06]
Stephen
Yes.
- [33:07]
Robert Warren
What we're doing by, by finding the confluence of these vibes is really more of a one plus one equals three situation where if we can correctly identify these confluence points and, and these investments, that is immediate value add. We don't dump tens of billions of dollars into something to try to force the vibe. We've already recognized the vibe. The hard work is done. The second the investment is made, we've already had that one plus one equals three moment.
- [33:37]
Stephen
You know, this just reminds me of the, the story of the dexterous butcher. I don't know if you've ever heard this in the Chinese parable. And it's about a butcher who is butchering an oxygen. And basically an average butcher comes to the king to take care of this ox and you know, he notices that he's, he's his, his knife, his carving knife is worn, he's having to sharpen it and he's hacking through the ox. And then one day the king meets a dexterous busher and he noticed that his, his carving knife, it's like it's, it's never been dulled. The blade is perfectly sharp. And when he watches this butcher carve the ox, it just falls apart. It's like he knows exactly where to put the knife so he doesn't have to force his way through the ox. He knows how to flow with the ox. He knows how to cut in a way which is in harmony with it. And as such he never needs to sharpen his knife because he understands the nature and the confluence of the various forces that compose the ox. And that's what we're doing for capital markets.
- [34:49]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Wow. Basically the capital market is the ox. We flow through it like, like a perfectly sharpened knife that never need be sharpened again.
- [35:00]
Walker
Perhaps, perhaps honed but not sharpened.
- [35:03]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It already has its edge and it keeps that edge.
- [35:06]
Stephen
Yeah. Just like the butcher. Ding. And this is, you know, it's this concept of cultivation too. And that's something to talk about, that really being in harmony with the best vibes is a cultivation. It takes conscious attention, it takes the honing of attention, the cultivation of inner awareness, of outer awareness, and the removal of obstacles and obstructions within oneself. And so I mean, this is a key part of like, you know, our core training program, employee training, HR intake process. We're really cultivating that refined, sensitive internal awareness and this is what gives us our edge.
- [35:56]
Walker
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- [37:11]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah, I think. Oh please, please.
- [37:14]
Robert Warren
I'm sorry. I was just going to ask him in Inside Baseball if we were still doing the the permaculture training during our ongoing company retreats. What you're talking about cultivation reminds me of what we've done in prior years and just if we might surface that as a way to really emphasize to the investing class that it's less about. It's less about sitting on a yacht, it's less about going to the golf course, but it's more about this, this permaculture idea of getting what you can and optimizing it through the lens. Of what the earth will give you herself.
- [37:49]
Stephen
This was your book, Right. You wrote the Permaculture of Capital Markets.
- [37:54]
Robert Warren
That was in 2014. Yes.
- [37:57]
Stephen
It's very good.
- [38:00]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I think that's interesting because it ultimately gets back to these natural cycles. Right. And it's interesting if we think about animals and how good animals are at detecting vibes.
- [38:10]
Walker
Right.
- [38:10]
Sam Bankman-Fried
How good? Also, children are up to a certain age at detecting vibes. We lose that at some point as adults. I think most of us do if we, again, we don't continue to hone that kind of vibe, that vibe awareness.
- [38:25]
Tatum Turnup
It's like society is suppressing that, honestly.
- [38:28]
Sam Bankman-Fried
How do we get back to that though? How do you get that?
- [38:30]
Tatum Turnup
Look at the innocence of children, look at the innocence of dogs. Look at service animals that know when you're about to have a seizure. Like, those are vibes that are, that they're, they're getting there. Earthquakes too, like in so many other things. But. And you know, children also, they may get bad vibes from people and, but we lose that as we get older. Society is wanting us to conform to a pattern that is created rather than just go with the vibes.
- [39:01]
Stephen
Absolutely, absolutely. This is what Martin Buber said. You know, his, his, his kind of dialogue on why we've lost the essence of like I thou relationship is society has, has constricted us, we've constricted everybody. And so really, vibes capital management is like a human potential movement. You know, we're just, we're not, we're not settling for a base metal here.
- [39:26]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean, although some of those base metals do have incredible resonance. We can't deny that. But ultimately they can't resonate in cyberspace, which I think is the key shortfall there. Yeah. And also I think like Peter Schiff, I don't know if he pursues a Vibes based investing approach. I'm just gonna, if we're still talking.
- [39:49]
Tatum Turnup
About metals, I mean, we can tell that he doesn't have a vibe strategy.
- [39:54]
Robert Warren
I mean, sort of an old order vibe strategy, you know?
- [39:57]
Tatum Turnup
Yeah, he at one point was, was vibing and he, he didn't adapt his vibes.
- [40:04]
Mags
The vibes, they are changing.
- [40:07]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Whoa, whoa.
- [40:09]
Stephen
You can lose, you can lose access. You know, that's a, that's a, that's a story, right? Like you can be in a good relationship and you can lose it. You know, you can lose it like the mandate of heaven. You know, it's like, you can have it, you can lose it. I think Peter lost it, unfortunately, because he didn' he wasn't able to evolve to bitcoin. It's a sad story.
- [40:29]
Tatum Turnup
And for those listening live, I know It's a crisp 1041 Mountain Time, but drinking game. Take a shot. Every time you hear the word vibe on this podcast.
- [40:40]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I'd like to give a shout out to Lightning Goats, who is in the live stream and is usually in these live streams. And if you haven't checked out Lightning Goats and zapped some sats to feed goats, it is like the coolest thing ever. So funny. You should. If you just search lightning goats on YouTube, you will find them, and they're adorable. And you can literally feed them by zapping sats, which is just like. It's such a vibe like that. That is. That is like peak vibes, you know, feeding goats from anywhere in the world by zapping sats like, that's beautiful. We need more of those kind of vibe projects.
- [41:18]
Tatum Turnup
They're just vibing. You get to watch them vibe.
- [41:22]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Did you know that goats. And I learned. I learned this from. From Lightning Goats because he came on. On this show, and goats, you should never only get one. You should always get two goats because they need companionship. They vibe together. And I thought that was kind of beautiful. So, like, if you have just one goat, they're going to be a bit ornery. And they may be. They may be misbehaving, but you get two of them, then they start to vibe. And again, I think that's that amplification right there. You know, that's kind of a goat vibe confluence.
- [41:52]
Stephen
Kind of just like a bitcoin. Right. You should never get one. You should get two.
- [41:56]
Tatum Turnup
A lot to be said there.
- [41:58]
Sam Bankman-Fried
There really is. There really is.
- [41:59]
Mags
Zuckerberg has two goats.
- [42:01]
Stephen
He does.
- [42:01]
Rob
Oh, that's right. Bitcoin and something else.
- [42:04]
Stephen
Max.
- [42:04]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I think the other one. Max. Yeah, Which I know. I mean, is that maximalist? Yeah, yeah. I mean.
- [42:12]
Mags
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
- [42:15]
Sam Bankman-Fried
He has had an interesting vibe shift for an extra trip.
- [42:19]
Tatum Turnup
He's a great example of a vibe shift.
- [42:22]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah.
- [42:23]
Tatum Turnup
Just look at, like, someone put it in a way of when a nerd goes on Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan feels smarter and the nerd feels cooler. And it's how you follow that that really defines who you are. And I think that Zuckerberg really fully enhanced that vibe shift post. Rogan.
- [42:46]
Stephen
I am going to. So we're going to do a real time example. So I'm going to find out when Zuckerberg went through the vibe shift, and we're going to see how Facebook stock has Performed since then?
- [42:56]
Robert Warren
It's a good question.
- [42:58]
Walker
Wow.
- [42:59]
Stephen
Yeah.
- [43:00]
Mags
You know, most funds would be terrified to share their proprietary, you know, valuation models, but Vibes Capital, we open source.
- [43:10]
Tatum Turnup
Very open source. Vibes.
- [43:12]
Mags
Yeah.
- [43:13]
Stephen
So look at this, guys. So he changed it. I'm not even kidding. I'm not making this up. His vibe shift occurred at the end of 2023 and early 2024. If you look at the Meta stock, it literally bottoms in 2023 and it has done nothing. But it was that. Let's just take the kind of conservative point there. It was at $240 a share. It is at $653 a share today in just under two years, immediately following Zuckerberg's vibe shift.
- [43:46]
Tatum Turnup
The difference, though, is that the. What we're wanting to do is bring those vibes to market. They have a vibe strategy, obviously, because we've seen the shift and we've seen the results, but they're keeping it close to the chest, and we're wanting to bring that to the public. We want to give access to vibes.
- [44:06]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Well, is it a coincidence also, and Steven, I defer to you on this one that during, at the start of that vibe shift, you notice he started getting a lot more tan. There was a lot more sun involved. Interesting. I mean, the ultimate vibe giver is the sun. Fair statement to make the sun like.
- [44:26]
Stephen
So there's. I think you want. There's nuance here. So I think the sun is the physical representation of the source of vibes in this world. And in kind of a physical sense, physical vibes are emanated from the sun, but there is almost a metaphysical sun of which the physical sun is a. Is a. Is a placeholder that exists in the inner landscape that is the true source of vibes. And, you know, I think just drawing this line very closely between like, ontological source and manifestation in the world. And it's the inner sun and the outer sun. So, you know, when Zuckerberg is going out in the sun and he's sun maxing and he's getting tan, he's getting his vitamin D up. It's. He is, you know, he's achieving vibes from, you know, kind of the center of the solar system. We got Matt Pines joining us.
- [45:24]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah, great to see Matt.
- [45:26]
Mags
Let me get this on the Mac speakers.
- [45:28]
Robert Warren
Wonderful.
- [45:29]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Special guest appearance. Wow.
- [45:31]
Robert Warren
Matt Pines.
- [45:33]
Matt Pines
The magic happens live. You know, we're just cooking. We're cooking here.
- [45:36]
Robert Warren
A man who is highly cognizant of the vibes. Good to see you.
- [45:40]
Matt Pines
Thanks for having me. You Know, I love to just drop in on podcasts here. David Zell, Sam Bateman Freed here.
- [45:45]
Mags
Yeah.
- [45:47]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Matt, would you care to perhaps just, I don't know, shower us with some vibes based knowledge? How do you look at the idea of vibes and vibes based investing? Is this something that you are attuned to or are your vibes concentrated in a different area?
- [46:04]
Matt Pines
I mean, if I'm honest, the whole thing is a scam. The whole thing is just a rug pull to sell T shirts here. Like, the airdrop is coming. I see it on Steven's face. He's just setting up for the rug pull. He's trying to poach all of my staff. I'm threatened by this.
- [46:25]
Stephen
The vibe.
- [46:26]
Matt Pines
The vibe is malevolent. The vibe. The vibe is hostile. And I will, and I will react to it, you know, in kind, at a place and time of my choosing.
- [46:34]
Walker
Wow.
- [46:35]
Robert Warren
Set ourselves up for that one.
- [46:38]
Stephen
Well, I will pass that feedback on to the five employees of yours that now work for me. I'll let them know that that's how you feel.
- [46:47]
Matt Pines
You know, I'm going to have my vibe antitrust lawyers slap, a slap, a lawsuit, and a restraining order, you know, ASAP. Gonna have Mr. Elon boost you. And yeah, we're going in the trenches. It's.
- [47:02]
Rob
It's gonna be very negative vibes over here, guys.
- [47:07]
Sam Bankman-Fried
All you want. We're on Noster. It's okay. The vibes are high.
- [47:11]
Stephen
Matt has launched a competitor fund. He is talking his book. He is running. That's right, Ventures. They're no Wedding Insight trading firm. And so this is not an unbiased take. Not only is he salty that a lot of his best people wanted to come work for us, but he is running a competitor.
- [47:30]
Matt Pines
So, you know, like, like the Feels early fund is.
- [47:34]
Mags
Is.
- [47:34]
Matt Pines
Is in syndication right now, and we're taking. We're taking LPs. The Noetics Group family of portfolio companies is, you know, we're ambitious.
- [47:43]
Sam Bankman-Fried
We're.
- [47:44]
Matt Pines
We're coming for you. So take your vibes and, you know, have fun, but, you know, party's over.
- [47:50]
Robert Warren
Wow.
- [47:50]
Stephen
Fun playing with your vibes. Yeah.
- [47:53]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah. You know, do you play with the vibes or do the vibes play with you? You know what I mean?
- [47:59]
Robert Warren
That's a good question.
- [48:00]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah. I don't know. Matt's never asked you and the Vibes, correct?
- [48:05]
Robert Warren
I mean, methodologically, we've. We've spent most of our efforts vibing with the vibes where I know Matt. You know, big respect that he is. He is pursuing this new venture. But we've. We found that because he does pursue it in such an objectivist kind of way, to us, it's not our alpha generation strategy. You know, he's looking for the study. He has to go to the desert. He has to point the satellites towards the sky. We simply vibe and we can do it from everywhere.
- [48:31]
Rob
I do feel he has a competitive advantage, though. I have heard, you know, we have been doing some of our own due diligence underground and, you know, he's got some UAP technology that's helping him assess. Yeah, yeah.
- [48:43]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean.
- [48:43]
Matt Pines
I mean, the. The jellyfish tell me exactly what to buy and when or else they kidnap me.
- [48:49]
Robert Warren
Jeez. We don't have any jellyfish yet.
- [48:52]
Mags
So.
- [48:53]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Jellyfish are kind of a vibe, though.
- [48:55]
Tatum Turnup
I was. For sure.
- [48:57]
Matt Pines
Yeah, yeah, they're vibes. I mean, it's one of those vibes you definitely want to like, you know, lick your finger before you touch.
- [49:03]
Stephen
Right.
- [49:04]
Robert Warren
It's.
- [49:04]
Matt Pines
It's Tigre's kind of reward there. You know, you go out into the desert, you summon the demons. You know, be careful what. What you. What you bring in. David has done this.
- [49:13]
Robert Warren
Are there.
- [49:13]
Mags
Are there different paths that they're.
- [49:16]
Robert Warren
They're very.
- [49:16]
Mags
Responding to the vibes.
- [49:18]
Robert Warren
Yeah.
- [49:18]
Mags
If you have good vibes, you get good jellyfish. And if you have, you know, the.
- [49:24]
Tatum Turnup
The.
- [49:24]
Mags
The jellyfish become your sort of moral or vibes dessert.
- [49:28]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Right?
- [49:28]
Mags
Like you sort of get. You get that which you are due.
- [49:30]
Matt Pines
It turns out karma is an objective fact.
- [49:32]
Stephen
Right.
- [49:32]
Matt Pines
You have a Ponzi. You're running in the background of your. Of your soul. So I'm looking at Zells right now, and he's digging out of the.
- [49:41]
Mags
I'm in a bear market.
- [49:44]
Matt Pines
He sold off his personal equity to some interventional demon on some asset trip five years ago, and now he's shitcoining to sort of, you know, please the Sicilian Lord. But, you know, we're here to save his immortal bitcoin soul, so that's what we're doing. Yeah, we're not just. Just shilling bitcoin to America's leadership. We're really a matter of spiritual salvation. That's. That's where this is.
- [50:10]
Walker
That sounds like a vibes based approach, though.
- [50:14]
Sam Bankman-Fried
So.
- [50:14]
Mags
Fuck. Wait, are we talking. Are we talking mergers, guys?
- [50:18]
Walker
Holy.
- [50:19]
Mags
Is M and A activity in the vibes economy just mooning right now?
- [50:23]
Robert Warren
There's a unique strategy.
- [50:26]
Sam Bankman-Fried
About to be a vibe tank. It's no longer a think tank.
- [50:29]
Walker
It's just.
- [50:30]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's a vibe tank.
- [50:32]
Mags
Always Always has been, Walker.
- [50:35]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Wow. It's all coming together now. It really is.
- [50:38]
Mags
And now Pines is about to just vibe out on a. On a little salad over here.
- [50:42]
Matt Pines
We are here at bpi, we consume and we produce, right? And I'm consuming and I'm producing at the exact same time.
- [50:52]
Stephen
It's official.
- [50:53]
Sam Bankman-Fried
You know, I can respect that. Even though he's trying to. Clearly trying to attack the fund, but like the vibe, you know, it's like one of those things, you conquer your enemy by being unlike him. Like, that is the greatest revenge, you know? Not that you're my enemy, Matt, but, you know. Wait, we still. Oh, I'm just making sure we still got you, Sam Bankman fried. We do. Okay, you're. Oh, nope, we lost you now. He must have his yard time. Must have been up. Oh, you're back. Okay.
- [51:23]
Robert Warren
Worried singularity had collapsed on you.
- [51:26]
Mags
Yeah, sorry, I ran out of phone minutes. Yeah, the tough, tough.
- [51:33]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Had to trade Pines some cigarettes for some extra minutes, huh?
- [51:39]
Stephen
It's really nice that Pines to visit you. You know, I mean. Yeah, it's very. You know, he's a considerate guy to come.
- [51:45]
Mags
Yeah. When I get out in 30 years, we're running Alameda back, and this time, like, influencer that.
- [51:53]
Matt Pines
That visited Sam that Elon wanted a baby with.
- [51:59]
Tatum Turnup
Tiffany Fung.
- [51:59]
Stephen
Tiffany Fong.
- [52:00]
Mags
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I get out in 50 years or 30 years, we're gonna run it back turbo.
- [52:09]
Sam Bankman-Fried
And.
- [52:10]
Mags
And really, you know, in retrospect, like, you know, I think what happened. Yeah, I said a lot of things at the trial and on and on Twitter, and, you know, I've had some time to reflect. It was just the vibes. The vibes were just wrong. And I think. And I think, you know, our failure is. Is in some ways evidence of the success of this new venture. Because when you start from a fundamentally Vibe aligned foundation, failure just isn't an option. It's just not even in the sort of portfolio of possibilities. And, you know, to all the capital allocators that are watching this and thinking, you know, how large of a check should I write? You know, should I give these people half of my net worth, 80% of my net worth, should I take out debt and give them 110% of my net worth? I think the fundamental sort of realization you have to come to is there's not another fund in the world that can eliminate the possibility of failure except vcm. So, you know, as. As the director of custodial Services, you know, you just. When you want to invest, you know, you send me the coins and I custody them and. And up only, you know, commences.
- [53:23]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's ultimately that the, that VCM is just, it is the way like it is, you know, the vibes are the dao, essentially. And once you kind of. We're like, the vibe that can be.
- [53:31]
Mags
Spoken is not the vibe, right?
- [53:33]
Sam Bankman-Fried
And you, you tap into that oneness of the vibe, and it's, you know, how can we even describe that oneness to your point? Sam Bankman, Fried it is the unexplainable, but it is the knowable. As soon as you stop trying to know it, you know, Exactly. I think that's the key.
- [53:51]
Stephen
The mere to grasp it causes it to elude you. You have to receive it. You can't seize it. You must receive it. And that's what we spend our time doing. You know, in a work day, you know, maybe seven and a half hours of that time is just being in an open state of attunement to the vibes. And the other 30 minutes is hitting the market buy button.
- [54:18]
Sam Bankman-Fried
And it's a proven strategy. I mean, the fund's performance speaks for itself. No exist.
- [54:23]
Mags
That's the other differentiator of our fund is, you know, people get caught up in the options, right? When you have a big green button and a big red button, you know, life gets messy and complicated. You, choices to make choices. And, you know, we eliminate choice. We have a large green button, and we press it when we feel the vibe is good. And that's it. We've eliminated all friction, all complexity, all bad vibes. We've reduced investing in capital management to a single act, pressing the buy button. And, and, you know, I just, just don't see how that, how I can't fail.
- [55:04]
Tatum Turnup
We're not reactive to bad vibes. We're proactive to good vibes.
- [55:09]
Stephen
Correct. I mean, even think about the sell button, the red button. Which button has better vibes, the red sell button or the green buy button? It's not.
- [55:17]
Rob
That does change depending on your culture.
- [55:20]
Stephen
True colors or colors are. But buy for sell. Just, just sit with those for a little bit. Do you feel better when you buy something? Do you sell something? Buy. Because the future, you're. You're suddenly participating in a better future when you sell, you're locking in possibilities today. And maybe, you know, it feels good in that moment, but the future collapses. You've sold it. When you buy something, the future's unlimited.
- [55:48]
Walker
Can you leverage vibes?
- [55:50]
Tatum Turnup
Oh, this is an interesting, interesting.
- [55:53]
Rob
There's vibes futures. No. Or we should live some guys, new products.
- [55:58]
Tatum Turnup
You know, honestly, we could launch some poly markets on, on Vibes. I think that would. Never mind.
- [56:06]
Robert Warren
Actually, yeah, there is a difficulty.
- [56:08]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Right.
- [56:08]
Robert Warren
You know, as you, as you enter the derivatives market of Vibes, you do have a quadratic decay in the perceptibility of that Vibe, which is to, of course, be expected. Now, we've had to utilize some pretty atypical market monitoring technology, such as the telescopes that are abundant in Hawaii as a point of, As a point of astral monitoring. We also do some gravitational wave monitoring. But as you can understand that what's really, what's really a constraint is actually our greatest asset in the fiat world. You can, can continue to build collateralized obligation onto structured whatever, onto batched, entranced, whatever graded it might be. And this is what has led to this fiat inflation of the market. And it has led to a lot of confusion in the investing landscape where the individual believes that the third, fourth, fifth, sixth version of the real thing is the real thing. And we are really constrained by the fact that inherent in the Vibes themselves is this quadratic decay when you start to enter the derivatives market. So we're getting there. You know, we have the technology, it's expensive to operate and it's taken quite a bit of compute on the back end. But again, it's not our core, not our core strategy. That's kind of the icing on the cake as opposed to really the meat that we want to get into.
- [57:33]
Sam Bankman-Fried
With each derivative, you get further away.
- [57:35]
Walker
From the Vibe, essentially.
- [57:36]
Robert Warren
That's right. That's exactly right.
- [57:38]
Stephen
Very focused on owning that which is real. And we're very sensitive buying things which are inherently unreal. But like Rob said, there's some pathways, there's a lot of compute involved. We're one of Nvidia's biggest customers and that's a very competitive, competitive market right now. We took over a small bitcoin miner for the power, the, you know, the power contracts. And we've done a, you know, a huge Blackwell deployment. We've really deployed, you know, a ton of GPUs to work on this problem, but it's a hard one. And we're very committed to, if we do engage in derivatives activities, those projections from the real need to themselves be real.
- [58:23]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean, synthetic vibes are ultimately, they're just not the same Vibe, you know, And I think that's the key point now.
- [58:31]
Mags
But we've got treasury companies.
- [58:34]
Stephen
Yeah.
- [58:34]
Tatum Turnup
Now, I, I knew we were getting there at some point.
- [58:37]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Yeah.
- [58:38]
Mags
Now I do have to say that's the one point of departure where I think you can sort of, like Stephen said, you can kind of fractal out and away from truth, but if you sort of orient that upward fractal, you can actually compound on truth and accelerate truth, wherein each Vibe's treasury company actually commands an mvav, all right? A multiple of the, the. The Vibe asset value. And I think that's just another way that, that that VCM is going to outperform.
- [59:14]
Stephen
Did you know, I mean, everyone gets this wrong. They say, you know, M nav, you know, and the. They, they, they think it's a like native asset value. It's actually native asset vibes. The V is actually for Vibes. That's what I can see how that would.
- [59:30]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's been generating clearly a lot of confusion in the marketplace. I feel like we really need to get this research out there just to set the record straight. And I feel like it'll improve the Vibes just generally without this much confusion. Because preliminary analysis, it's discordant.
- [59:44]
Rob
And I have sent out a preliminary analysis into the world looking at some of the largest assets by market cap in the world. And I mean, look at gold, right? We have millennia history of humans, you know, harnessing the Vibes from gold. Like they have both helped civilization adapt. But think of all, think of the mans. Think of all the. All that. Well, there was negative fives, you know, to acquire that gold. But yet they've also helped humanity, you know, reach certain levels. Right? Store of Vibes. It's the oldest store of Vibes. So it's going to be at the top for a while now. But I mean, our, our small fund is catching up. But, you know, below gold is obviously bitcoin. Bitcoin has a lot of Vibes. It's number two. It's not number two yet, you know, in the traditional allocation sense, but it's number two based on the strategic Vibes assessment. And Silver's up there too, right? Long history. It's just not the same as gold. And I mean, microstrategy or strategy now, lot of Vibes.
- [60:59]
Sam Bankman-Fried
I mean, Saylor is a strong, I would say, projector of vibes.
- [61:03]
Rob
He's a NASDAQer.
- [61:05]
Stephen
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:06]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It's undeniable there. And I have to imagine that behind MSTR's bitcoin treasury strategy is a Vibe.
- [61:15]
Walker
Treasury strategy that's just waiting to be announced.
- [61:17]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Like, I feel like that's the ultimate. You know, it's not that MSTR is going to transform into a bitcoin bank, like many are hypothesizing, it's really into a Vibe bank, essentially is what they're really going for. But I can see why he would want to keep that quiet. Perhaps he's not as open as we are at Vibe Capital Management.
- [61:36]
Stephen
Oh, we have to fight him off every day. Saylor is really coming for our people every day. They're sending over, you know, these agents that try to try to get our talent because, I mean, we have some of the best talent in the industry. I think it's actually the best. People tell me they're the best.
- [61:53]
Sam Bankman-Fried
A lot of people are saying it.
- [61:55]
Stephen
So many people are saying it, you know, just go on Twitter. But, you know, MicroStrategy has been a vibe. That's why it's been so successful. That's why there's so many other bitcoin treasury companies. That's why, you know, and, you know, I think Saylor realized that bitcoin had good vibes and he basically took his company, which was struggling with vibes, right before bitcoin.
- [62:23]
Tatum Turnup
There we go, another Vibe shift.
- [62:25]
Stephen
It was a vibe shift. He was a kind of in a low vibe point with his software. Nobody really cared about the software, but he realized he can convert all of that potential energy represented by capital on the balance sheet into bitcoin. And this was a Vibe shift. He actually, that's what happens, actually, when you exchange dollars for bitcoin, you're vibe shifting dollars. That is a vibe shift. And that is why you're actually transforming. Every time you convert a dollar into bitcoin, you increase the vibe of capital markets because there is more energy in good vibes bitcoin, less energy in bad vibes, Fiat. And so Saylor really kind of leveled up the vibes of MicroStrategy when he embarked on this, you know, this, this path.
- [63:15]
Robert Warren
Yeah.
- [63:16]
Sam Bankman-Fried
Corporate strategy is upward volatility of vibe. Sorry to cut you off, Rob. Yeah, hardcore. It really seems like that it has a. That's a ultimately a positive. It's an up and to the right volatile vibe. But volatility, really, it's not just health, it is the vibe.
- [63:32]
Walker
Right.
- [63:33]
Sam Bankman-Fried
You need volatility for. If there's no volatility, there's no way for it.
- [63:37]
Walker
Right.
- [63:38]
Robert Warren
And it is the fundamental vibe shift that happens internally when you start to grok bitcoin. You know, the. The volatility is the greatest fear point for the early adopter. It's the case of that last buy is always the one that you are indexing against, which makes you nervous. To do the next buy. And really what happens over time if you go through cycles, two cycles, three cycles, is that you realize you've been denominating this game in the wrong way entirely. And once you, once you make that shift and once you make the fundamental realization that one bitcoin is one bitcoin, 10,000 sats is always 10,000 sats. The volatility was on the other side of the equation. It was in the first fiat world. You are. You are merely transitioning from this highly volatile, volatile fiat world into the most stable vibe that there is. So it's really, it's. It's a human. It's a human experience that you're going through when you are participating in this volatility. And it's that. That internal drive vibe shift that moves you from the fiat standard that's already resonating. It's the base level code for so many of us having been raised in this fiat ecosystem. And really the best that we can do is make this transition ourselves in the hope that as we have and raise kids in later generations, that the volatility is immaterial because they're already on the standard of the vibe est reserve asset of all, which is bitcoin.
- [65:04]
Rob
Can you triple bottom line volatility, vitality and vibes?
- [65:10]
Robert Warren
I love it.
- [65:11]
Stephen
That's it.
- [65:12]
Tatum Turnup
Hey, truck driver vibing out there that I gotta go unload, but I'll. I'll catch y' all. I'll catch y' all vibing later. All right.
- [65:20]
Robert Warren
I love it, y' all. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to roll in the Colorado sun as well for you beauties. Okay, please continue these great vibes for hosting us.
- [65:30]
Sam Bankman-Fried
It was my pleasure.
- [65:39]
Walker
And that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast. Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the Internet. Find me on noster@primal.net walker and this podcast@primal.netcoin on X, YouTube and Rumble. Just search at Walker Me America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at tcoin Podcast. Head to the Show Notes to grab sponsor links. Head to substack.comwalkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you and head to bitcoin podcast.net for everything else. Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the bitcoin podcast podcast. Until next time, stay free.