THE Bitcoin Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: "Why President Trump Should Pardon Samourai | Keonne Rodriguez of Samourai Wallet"

Host: Walker America
Guest: Keonne Rodriguez, Co-founder of Samourai Wallet
Date: December 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This urgent, emotionally-charged episode spotlights Keonne Rodriguez (co-founder of Samourai Wallet), who, alongside his partner, faces imminent imprisonment after pleading guilty to charges related to operating Samourai, a privacy-focused non-custodial Bitcoin wallet. The podcast exposes what both host and guest describe as a gross miscarriage of justice—a prosecution, they argue, rooted not in law but in the desire to stifle privacy innovation and set an intimidating precedent for open-source software in the US. The message is clear: Rodriguez believes only a presidential pardon, possibly from Donald Trump, can correct this injustice and prevent a chilling effect on open-source privacy tools in America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tragedy of Prosecution — Injustice in the Justice System

• Rodriguez’s Reality: Both he and co-founder Bill are days away from prison (scheduled for Dec 19), with Rodriguez asserting their prosecution is an egregious perversion of American justice.
  • "The justice system has nothing to do with justice. It has nothing to do with truth." — Keonne Rodriguez [00:00]
• Rodiguez draws a parallel between his own legal nightmare and Trump’s, arguing the latter would recognize the targeted, political nature of their prosecution and might be inclined to intervene if the case is brought to his attention [01:40].

2. Origins and Mission: Why Samourai?

• Genesis from Disillusionment: Rodriguez traces his journey back to the 2008 financial crisis and a deep distrust in the traditional financial system. His search for self-sovereign money evolved from precious metals to Bitcoin.
  • "I watched bankers get bailed out and everyday average people get slammed. So I knew something was wrong with the system that early on... Bitcoin... can't be censored where there's no financial institution in the middle of it and it's self sovereign." [04:36]
• Building for Privacy: Dissatisfied with Bitcoin industry’s pivot toward regulated, surveillance-friendly institutions, Rodriguez and Bill built Samourai to give everyday users privacy and self-sovereignty—arguing privacy is foundational to freedom.

3. The Nature of Samourai: Non-Custodial, Open Source

• Samourai vs. Mixers: Detailed distinction between non-custodial collaborative transaction tools (like CoinJoin/Whirlpool) and custodial “mixers.”
  • "What we were able to do in Samourai Wallet was entirely what we call non-custodial, meaning the user never gives up custody of their bitcoin... We thought that was what made Samourai Wallet lawful... we were in the clear for almost 10 years, until suddenly we weren't." [15:26]
• For a decade, under three administrations, their model—where wallets never controlled user funds—was never deemed unlawful by regulators until a sudden, dramatic reversal.

4. The Sudden Raid & Legal Blitz: A Show of Force

• SWAT-Style Raid: In April 2024, 50 armed FBI agents, drones, armor, and parallel raids in the US and Portugal—seizing computers and code—for what even the host describes as a nonviolent, victimless “crime.”
  • "I have no criminal history. I have no history of violence. The crimes I'm accused of are white collar crimes with no victim. What's all of this show about? And that's really what it was. It was a show. It was theatrics." [14:12]
• Both host and guest condemn the overwhelming, performative nature of the arrest as intimidation and theater.

5. Key Evidence Withheld: FinCEN’s Exculpatory Finding

• FinCEN Letter: The US Treasury’s Financial Crime Enforcement Network (FinCEN) explicitly stated months before indictment that Samourai was not a Money Services Business (MSB), per their own guidance (no custody, no MSB).
  • This exculpatory letter was withheld for a year (a Brady violation), and only discovered by Rodriguez’s defense after the fact.
  • "FinCEN responded, 'No, they don’t take custody. So we don’t consider them a money transmitter.' The government had this information six months before indicting us... And then they hid this email from us for a year." [19:14]
• The host and guest agree: their prosecution is not about enforcing the law, but about making an example.

6. Weaponization of Jurisdiction: Southern District of New York

• Jurisdiction Creation: SDNY manufactured jurisdiction by having an FBI agent download Samourai Wallet in Manhattan and make a transaction, claiming this as “a crime” taking place in NY.
  • "They send some poor slub FBI agent out into the street of Manhattan to pull out his cell phone, install Samourai Wallet on it, make a transaction with it and then they say we have jurisdiction now because a crime occurred." [33:08]
• SDNY’s Reputation: The podcast underscores the SDNY’s “sovereign” reputation; they bulldoze ahead even if administration policy or legal reality say otherwise.

7. The Plea Deal Dilemma: Legal and Financial Ruin

• Bail & Financial Strangulation: Rodriguez describes being held on seven-figure bail, court conditions that prevent the use of their own (bitcoin-based) assets, and legal representation that costs up to $4,000/hour.
  • "I'm about two and a half million dollars in legal debt and about 1.3 million in debt to friends and family... completely destroyed. My entire financial life is destroyed." [42:05]
• The Impossible Choice: Facing a 25-year sentence and $237 million in restitution (when they never held that amount), compared to a plea deal capped at 5 years and "just" $6.3 million.
  • "If you don't take the deal, if you get convicted... when you're out, you'll be responsible for paying $237 million in restitution to the government... The deal was instead of $237 million, that was illicit, you only have to pay us what you earned over 10 years of running Samourai Wallet, which was $6.3 million." [55:17]

8. Precedent and Chilling Effect for Open Source

• Dangerous Precedent: This case, Rodriguez warns, signals open season on non-custodial, open-source privacy developers in America by reinterpreting the law to construe software developers as financial institutions.
• No Actual Victims or Criminals Prosecuted: Despite government claims that Samourai was used by “criminals,” not a single user alleged to be a criminal was prosecuted; only the software developers were targeted.
  • "Of all of the crime that I allegedly laundered... not one of these criminals was apprehended. Not one." [73:22]

9. The Trump Connection and Hope for Pardon

• Executive Pardon as Only Hope: The host and Keonne repeatedly stress that only visibility with Trump (who has himself been targeted by SDNY, understands “lawfare,” and has already pardoned Ross Ulbricht) offers hope for clemency.
  • "President Trump has the opportunity to right this ship... Justice was righted [with Ross]. For you and Bill, it's like... we have the opportunity... to write this ship before you guys spend time in prison you should not be spending there." [71:21]
  • "If we manage to get it in front of the president, which is difficult... I think we have a good chance. It's knowing that the President... is just a fundamentally fair guy... once it's in front of him, I think it's pretty likely he takes care of it." [82:11]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Nature of Justice:

• "[The] justice system has nothing to do with justice. It has nothing to do with truth." — Keonne [00:00, 25:38]
• "The prosecutor's only role is to take down the person that they put the target on. No matter what. Even if the person is innocent, that is inconsequential to the prosecutor." — Keonne [00:43]

On the Withheld FinCEN Evidence:

• "FinCEN responded, 'No, they don’t take custody. So we don’t consider them a money transmitter.' The government had this information six months before indicting us... And then they hid this email from us for a year, which is a Brady violation." — Keonne [19:14]

On Non-Custodial Design:

• "In Samourai's solution, I have the bitcoin in this hand and I move it to this hand. It's always been on me... That's what made Samourai Wallet lawful." — Keonne [15:26]

On the Show-of-Force Arrest:

• "All they had to do was contact [our lawyer] and say, we think your client’s breaking the law... I would have gone and surrendered and started the legal process. We didn’t have to have a militarized raid." — Keonne [11:41]

On Legal and Financial Ruin:

• “…lawyer fees are very difficult to deal with... my entire net worth was in bitcoin …I'm about two and a half million dollars in legal debt and about 1.3 million in debt to friends and family.” — Keonne [42:05]

On the Plea Deal Coercion:

• "If you don’t take the deal... not only will you spend 25 years in federal prison, but when you're out, you'll be responsible for paying $237 million in restitution..." — Keonne [55:17]
• "They knew we never had it... it was just a tactic to really screw us in the event that we go to trial and risk the 25 years." — Keonne [60:57]

On Precedent and the Call to Action:

• "If they can get away with doing this to you and Bill, they're not gonna stop... Don't be complacent. If they come for one of us, they will eventually come for all of us." — Walker [63:17, 81:16]

On the Mission and Hope for the Future:

• "If we don't now [take action], you may not have the same opportunity later. This is a case where it's pretty clear ... this is not how justice is supposed to be served in America." — Walker [79:10]
• "I hope that the industry, the bitcoin industry is strong and isn't completely captured. ...Is there still a hint of censorship resistance in the air? I think there will be. I hope there will be, but we'll see." — Keonne [84:37]

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–03:20| Opening, nature of justice system | | 04:36 | Rodriguez’s background, why privacy tools matter | | 11:41 | No warning, sudden armed raid details | | 15:26 | Samourai vs. custodial mixers/tech explanation | | 19:14 | FinCEN exculpatory letter, Govt. Brady violation | | 33:08 | How SDNY manufactured jurisdiction | | 42:05 | Financial devastation from legal battle | | 46:53 | The rigged plea deal & judge swap | | 55:17 | The plea (5 yrs + $6.3M) vs. max risk (25 yrs + $237M) | | 71:21 | Trump, precedent, and hope for a pardon | | 73:22 | No criminals caught—only devs prosecuted | | 84:37 | Hopes for the Bitcoin industry post-prison | | 85:50 | Status of Samourai code (forked, open source) | | 88:45 | Final plea and message to Trump and listeners |

Call to Action

• Website: billandkeonne.org for petition and donation links (no bitcoin accepted due to bail conditions).
• Share: Listeners repeatedly urged to share this episode/petition, especially with any contacts who might reach President Trump or his administration.
• Host’s Final Word: "If they come for one of us, they will eventually come for all of us... Make your voice heard. Use these privacy tools, write open source code. Take a stand now." [88:45–93:46]

Tone & Style

The episode is urgent, indignant, and direct, blending technical detail with personal narrative, outrage, and appeals for collective action. Both host and guest hold nothing back, often using explicit language and fiery rhetoric to drive urgency and empathy for Rodriguez and the broader anti-censorship mission.

In Sum

This episode is both a human plea and a political statement: The prosecution of Keonne Rodriguez and Bill “is bigger than two developers.” It is a referendum on privacy, the rule of law, and America’s willingness to foster—rather than criminalize—self-sovereign technology. The clear message: Only a Trump pardon can reverse a dangerous precedent, and only a noisy, organized outcry can get this case on the President’s desk.

For further updates, resources, and calls to action, visit billandkeonne.org.