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- [00:00]
Away Slice
The best beefsteak course is the one that speaks to your tongue. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter how pretty it is, it doesn't matter. The story of the steak, all that shit goes out the window when you take a bite. The only thing that matters is you just go, oh, man, that's really good. So few of the things that we eat are truly delicious, you know what I mean? And you really have to be paying attention because you can miss it. You can miss it and it might not be there. Not only next week, like, once it's gone, like once people finish it, you know, can I have more? They're like, it's gone. No, you can't. There's nothing. Like, I can't make it again. Those are my favorite beef steak dishes that you just put in your mouth and you. And there's, you know, for whatever reason, you just know immediately that it's delicious.
- [00:51]
Walker
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the bitcoin podcast. The bitcoin time chain is 868199 and the value of one bitcoin is still one bitcoin. Today's episode is bitcoin talk where I talk with my guest about bitcoin and whatever else comes up. Today that guest is away Slice, AKA the beefsteak guy. His beefsteak events are truly legendary and he's managed to create an incredible culture around getting people together to eat meat cooked over an open fire with their bare hands. We get into quite a lot today, including but not limited to the origin of beefsteak, beef food in general, building community, whether AI will take over chefs jobs, art versus craftsmanship, hosting events and vibe curation, the effects of social media, and a whole lot more. Before we dive in, do me a favor and subscribe to the bitcoin podcast wherever you're watching or listening. Check out bitcoin podcast.net for episodes and additional resources. Head to the Show Notes to grab discount links for my sponsor, Bitbox. Or just go directly to Bitbox Swiss Walker and use the promo code Walker. Send an email to hello Bitcoin podcast.net if you have feedback or if you're interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast. And if you find this show valuable, consider giving value back by giving it a zap on Noster or a boost on Fountain. Without further ado, let's get into this bitcoin talk with a wastelice.
- [02:30]
Carla
You know how, like, at least like early on in my bitcoin journey, like the first time sending a, like actually sending a bitcoin transaction. Like, I didn't have anyone like walking me through. It was just like, you know, had gone through, you know, read stuff and gone through tutorials and it's fairly self explanatory but you go through it and you're still just like, okay, like, did it work? Like, let me send a little test transaction. Like, what if I copy, you know, what if somehow when I copied it and then pasted it, like it inserted an extra number number and I screwed it up. That's still kind of how I feel with some of this stuff on Noster. Just because it's like, it's still a little bit fresh and new.
- [03:03]
Away Slice
Totally.
- [03:03]
Carla
And you're like, okay, like, did the live stream, like, is it, is it really live right now? Is it really working? But it appears to be. So now we are, we are officially live. But man, stoked to have you here.
- [03:14]
Away Slice
Fear is skin in the game, right? Like, well, yeah, last time you had, you had like fear that your credit card transaction would go through or you know what I mean?
- [03:25]
Carla
I have more fears of credit card fraud, which is like, just seems to happen like fairly regularly. I don't know, just like, it's kind of obnoxious actually when you think about like. But yeah, that's fair. Like generally, okay, I swipe my credit card unless like I'm traveling somewhere and you know, if you're like abroad or whatever and you didn't alert your credit card company and then they're like, oh, we're going to, we're going to cancel this card right now because we think that somebody in Europe just stole it and it's like, well, okay, I guess I don't have money.
- [03:54]
Away Slice
So. Has that thing happened to you recently?
- [03:57]
Carla
Not, not, not recently. I think they fix.
- [04:01]
Away Slice
There's something. But did they fix it? There's something in there where like they know when I'm traveling now. Like, it's crazy how. I mean, for one thing, I often am using the credit card I bought the airline to get through, you know, like, yeah, not that they see where I'm going from the purchase transaction, but like if I show up in Riga and start buying stuff at a grocery store, like, they do not blink an eye. I've never, I don't get any pauses or freezes or anything like that. So feels like they've just gotten way better at just knowing what purchases are and are not. But then on the flip side, they'll be like, you're obviously not in Arkansas. Walmart Right. You know, like, yeah, they know. They know when it's fake too, which is kind of crazy.
- [04:54]
Carla
It's. This reminds me of a friend of ours. She was, she was traveling in Europe for a while, made some relatively large, like, bought herself a couple of nice handbags, you know, designer type handbags, and was not going to. Did not declare them, you know, coming back, because you have to declare if you, you know, you're bringing goods worth whatever, more than 10,000 doll, or if you're bringing cash equivalents of more than that, or I think technically you're supposed to declare any sort of goods, like above a certain tiny threshold. But she was like, you know, fuck that. I'm not going to do it. She gets back into the country and at customs they stop her. And the customs agent says, we see here your credit card has reported that you purchased these bags. Do you have those with you? So, like, the credit card companies are actively sharing information with customs and border, which is just kind of like, seems like a huge invasion of privacy. And another great, like another reason why cash is genuinely wonderful, because it's like nobody needs to know that. But I kind of assumed that they did some of that stuff. But then hearing this story from her, I was like, wait, what do you mean? They just, they just had your credit card statement. They knew what you'd been buying. And so it's like, apparently if you check as, you know, okay, you've been flagged as leaving the country, now you're flagged as coming back. I don't know if they just automatically pull that. Like, they can just. Yeah, I guess. Like they don't even have to subpoena it. That's just like, nope, that's just ours now. We'll, we'll take that information and see if you, you know, broke any of our stupid rules. It's kind of insane though.
- [06:23]
Away Slice
And it could be one of those things where, you know, it's like all those, you know, the government doesn't police us anymore. They penalize companies for not policing us. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like the whole. I forget what it is, but like, if I send you over $600, I'm supposed to get all your personal information and report it to the government. It's like, no way am I doing that. And I feel like that's mostly how the general population of the United States feels. They're like, I'm never going to do that.
- [06:57]
Carla
But yeah, because it's obnoxious, right? Like, that's such a Massive burden to put on anyone. Like, and that the government even needs to know about that. Like, you need to know that I'm paying some gu to, like, mow my lawn.
- [07:08]
Walker
No. No, you don't.
- [07:09]
Carla
And I'm happy to pay him cash so that you don't take a cut of that.
- [07:13]
Away Slice
Totally. Yeah. But I'm just saying it could be, like, something where, like, the government goes to Amex and they're like, you knew this person bought a bag in. So and so why didn't you tell us? Here's a fine. Like, I don't know. Not that that. Definitely. Not that that justifies it, but it just. It puts the impetus on American Express or whatever credit card company to start policing purchases when people travel, which is so.
- [07:41]
Carla
So that they're compliant and they can't somehow get in trouble with the government, basically. Like, see, we gave. We gave over the data you requested.
- [07:48]
Away Slice
Exactly.
- [07:48]
Carla
It's also like, isn't it at the. Like, borders are, like, an interesting thing, because even as an American citizen coming back, I'm pretty sure you don't have, like, some of your basic rights. Like, your constitutional rights are literally suspended at the border somehow. Like, they can, you know, they can seize your phone. They can do anything just on. On suspicion, and they can hold you like that. I've heard a bunch of stories about people, especially, like, folks that are public technology figures getting their phones taken and searched, both either coming back into America less frequently, but often if they're going into other countries, because it's like you're, you know, granted, you don't have your American rights when you're in another country, but you really don't have any rights at all when you're at a border. And that's kind of like a terrifying thing. Like, yeah, really just want to be careful.
- [08:33]
Away Slice
That's kind of crazy. This is a sideshow story. But I think I always tell people the story I think is kind of funny. When I was a kid, I was, like, 19, I was driving up to Canada, and I got in. I got arrested in Bar Harbor, Maine, for having a fake ID and trying to buy a beer. Maybe I was 20. Maybe I was 20 years old or something. And then I got to the Canadian border. They were like, we saw you just tried to buy beer in Bar Harbor. And I was like. And I was like, yep. He's like, what happened there? And I was like, they didn't let me. I wasn't old enough. And he was like, I don't know. Like, you were kind of breaking the Law. And I was like, yeah, but it's not the law in Canada. And the guy was like, you're right, you're right, it's not. And then they just let me through. He was like, all right, wait, how.
- [09:25]
Carla
Did they know you'd tried to buy beer? Like, was there like a. Like they had. So they had the police report.
- [09:32]
Away Slice
Like, I did not tell them about it. They had the police, like, they could see the police report. I mean, this was a long time ago too. Flag. They look at my license or whatever.
- [09:43]
Carla
Man. Last time I was going into Canada, I was going up for a wedding, and it was myself and Carla, my lovely wife, and her parents. And I was driving and we had, you know, we brought some beer and alcohol with us because we're going to a wedding. And like, you know, wasn't sure how close a liquor store was going to be to the hotel, so, you know, you want to be prepared. And we get to the border, we also, I made sure, being slightly autistic, I made sure that I studied all of the regulations for exactly how many, you know, like liters of wine, how many, you know, ounces of beer you can bring without getting in trouble. And so we had literally everything exactly perfect. And we get up to the border and the guy is asking me, you know, okay, you know, do you have any, you know, beer in the car and any wine, any alcohol? And I said, yep, we sure do. You know, we have, we have exactly the legal limit. And he's like, oh, you think you know our laws? Then I said, oh, yeah, I do. And I rattled off to him like, I literally just like memorized it that morning. And so I rattled it off to him like, I'll bright eyed and bushy tailed. And I don't think he took that very nicely. Like he thought I was being kind of a smart ass maybe. But I was really just trying to let him know, like, look, I promise you, you know, don't waste your time searching us. We are exactly compliant. And then, okay, he seems a little bit ticked off. And then he's like, well, do you have any, any livestock in the car? And we're like, no, no livestock. And. And we're like, okay, weird. Any chickens in the car? And I'm like, oh, no, all of our chickens were murdered by raccoons last year. Which is true. Like, they literally were all beheaded by a family of raccoons that last year, again, have not told this guy a lie yet, being totally honest. And I think that may have been the final straw for me. Because he really thought I was probably being a smart ass. He doesn't know that my chickens really were murdered by raccoons. And so then he, like, gets out of his little booth, comes up to us, and he's like, pull over there. Like, just, you know, pull. And then they spent like, an hour picking the car apart, looking for anything they could find. Ended up finding they had eight different border security officers picking our car apart. Like, I don't know, it must have been a slow day, but they're just searching that thing with a fine tooth comb. And then like an hour later, they're like, okay, yep, you're free to go. And it's just like, what a massive waste of resources that was because one guy decided to get pissed off and, like, you know, swing his dick around a little bit. It's like, I don't know where I was going with that, but it was just a ridiculous experience at the border.
- [12:09]
Away Slice
Government overreach.
- [12:10]
Carla
Yeah, man. Man. But all right, well, now that it feels good to get some of that, like, some of those border stories out of the system a little bit.
- [12:20]
Away Slice
Just kind of cathartic smuggling and.
- [12:22]
Carla
But. But hey, welcome. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's nice for you to be here. And, you know, I wish that we could be enjoying some of your incredible cooking as we do this right now. But you're usually quite. Quite involved in that. But maybe, you know, just to start things off here for folks that don't know you, can you just start us off with kind of, who the heck are you? How did you get here today to be doing these beef centric events that are not bitcoin events, but are generally or often held around bitcoin conferences? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
- [13:04]
Walker
How the heck did you get here.
- [13:05]
Carla
To be doing this?
- [13:09]
Away Slice
I can tell you the brief history. I don't know that it justifies me being here doing this, but it is how I got it.
- [13:16]
Carla
I think it does. I think it does.
- [13:21]
Away Slice
I love doing it, and I'm honored to be part of the community and to be cooking for all the people that come to Beefsteaks and stuff like that. Somehow just. It feels. It feels like I lucked into it. There's a very much like a. It's like the harder you work, the luckier you get. You know, it's like very much like, right time, right place, you know, like, I was cooking steaks, bitcoiners, like, eating steaks, like that sort of thing, you know, like, I wasn't figuring out. I wasn't trying to figure out what bitcoiners wanted to eat. I was just already making steaks, and bitcoiners wanted steaks. And then it just kind of, like, started jiving from there. But in the early days of New York meetups, Pierre Rochard used to organize steak dinners. And, you know, like, every couple months, like, seifudinamus was in town, he came and signed books and stuff like that, and we would go to, like, fogo de cha or a steakhouse. And at that time that I was, you know, for me, going to those steak dinners, like, I am such an introvert. I am very shy. It's totally exhausting for me to go to a social event. In fact, the whole reason that I cook is so that I don't have. I can go to a beef steak and not talk to anybody. Like, that is the reason that I am a chef, so that I can be antisocial at social events, because I still like eating. I still like going out and drinking and stuff like that. And then it's like, it's okay for me to go visit the kitchen and just stand there in complete silence. No chef will think that it's weird. But anyways, I was doing beef steaks for normies. I was just trying to figure out a way to do it because it was like, there were some beef steaks that I went to that were kind of crappy. There are other beef steaks that didn't. They just didn't feel like the vibe that I envisioned when I read this historical article that everybody should read at some point or another. And. And so when I was trying them with. With normies, like, the thing that happens is you bring together a bunch of strangers to. To. To go to a beef steak. I like to eat food with their hands together in a, like, communal environment. And that's just really challenging for some people. And there's like, some people are really good at talking to strangers, and some people aren't, so. But it was kind of missing a tie that binds. And when you did it with bitcoiners. So anyways, I went to Pierre, and I was like, pierre, I've been trying to do this dinner. Like, I do them in my backyard. I think we should do, like, a small one for bitcoiners. Like, people come over. It's just like, all you. You know, I just gave him, like, the elevator pitch, and he was like. He, like, interrupted me. He's like, cool, let's do it. Like, let's just pick a date, and we'll just email me. Here's my Email address. I emailed him, like, and you know, the thing about, like, meetups at this time is when I started going to meetups, you feel like everyone had been going to meetups for a long time, but they really hadn't been going to meetups for that long. I mean, there were some things in the really early days, like Satoshi Roundtable and Baltic Honey Badger and stuff, but for the most part, a lot of people were just like, lurking in the wings, reading forums and maybe trying to be funny on Twitter or maybe not. So he set up a BTC pay server for me. I'd never heard of that. I didn't know what it was. And I was like, oh, that's been around forever. But it really hadn't been around forever. It was like seven months old or something like that. I don't know how old it was, but it was very young in those days. I'm pretty janky. But it worked. We sold a bunch of tickets and, like, a bunch of people came to my house and we did a beefsteak for like 20 people. And that was 2018. Just kind of crazy. Maybe it was end of 2017. No, it was not. It was 2018. But that was wild. You know, that feels like an age ago. An age ago.
- [17:42]
Carla
Did I answer, time move strange? Oh, you know, you absolutely did. I was just going to say time. I have only been in Bitcoin since 2020. That's when I started going down the rabbit hole. But I've noticed that time moves in this weird way when you're, like, paying a lot of attention to bitcoin in the bitcoin space. And then also, I think time maybe is even stranger for me now because I'm a father.
- [18:04]
Away Slice
No, my good.
- [18:05]
Carla
It's like that's. That's warping everything. Like, my son's only 10 months old, but it feels like that's like it's been forever. But it's also like, I feel like we just brought him home from the hospital. So time's very confusing for me right now. But I wanted to ask you. So you mentioned that this article, I need to read this too, because I know it's linked on your website, but can you talk a little bit about that history like this? Until I saw that on your website, I thought that this was something that maybe you had kind of invented, but this was something you're going back to this old tradition, right? Can you talk about that old school New York beef steak tradition? Like, what the heck was that?
- [18:45]
Away Slice
Yeah, so I guess in the late 1800s and early 1900s, there the. It was like in the early days it was totally working class get together of men only, often in basements of buildings where guys would just stand around a furnace in a New York City building and cook steaks in it and just eat and drink until like they couldn't stand anymore. And I've never really been able to like find any evidence of this, but I have kind of a feeling that part of the reason, part of the reason they would happen would be because there'd be some sort of bottleneck in like beef shipping which happened out of the west side of Manhattan, like the meat packing district. And I feel like there'd be like these days where like say some track was broken or something, some guy would just walk out and be like, we gotta eat this steak right now. And so.
- [19:45]
Carla
Sounds like a great day.
- [19:47]
Away Slice
Yeah, yeah. So then they'd be like, get the boys. Like, we're going to so and so we're going to the Lower east side and we're going to eat all this steak. Like I feel like, because otherwise there. It feels unusual that a bunch of guys would just eat a bunch of steak. It just feel, you know, it feels like, I mean, obviously it was a celebration, but then that tradition caught on and it became. It just became more and more upscale. And it eventually became something that like a police captain, a policeman would do if he was promoted to captain or if like somebody got elected mayor, they would throw a beef steak. Mark Twain did beef steaks. Theodore Roosevelt did be steaks. Like it became this like hoity toity thing. And then this article was written in 1939 and went around to the different beefsteaks in New York and kind of. He talked to. There's like an east side beef steak and a West side beef steak. And they were kind of like rival, like friendly rivals. And they talked about like what each one did wrong. They talked about, they talked. I mean it's. It was written in 1939, so it's kind of like refreshing. Refreshingly sexist. I don't know how else to say it sounds terrible to say, but it's like just like, like the ladies came in and they brought bands and crab cakes and I don't know what else they, you know, like they blame women for ruining beef steaks. But it's just like the progression of, you know, every event. And I also something else we can talk about too. I'm interested and we can come back to. It is like the progression both of the beef steak over time and Just Bitcoin events in general. Because it's like. It's kind of interesting to watch some things get traction at some points and some. Some. Some business. Some of them. Events are floundering. Some of them have really gotten, like, a hold on what they're doing and stayed true to their message, I guess. I don't know. It's kind of why it's wild to watch.
- [21:47]
Carla
You mean, like, conferences, specifically? Like, certain.
- [21:50]
Away Slice
You know, I guess I'm saying I'm probably using these words interchangeably. I am referring to basically however the community comes together. So. So it could be meetups. It. But it could also. Which are growing, like, exponentially in number. But it's also conferences. It's, you know, it's events. It's satellite events like the Beefsteak. Then it's also like, brick and mortar places like the Bitcoin Commons and Pub Key and all that stuff. Am I. Am I losing you guys?
- [22:26]
Carla
No, no. Yeah. Yeah. No, that. Well, you still got me. I've still got you.
- [22:31]
Away Slice
Yeah. Yeah. You froze up, and I just didn't know if you could still hear me.
- [22:34]
Carla
Oh, yeah, it may occasionally freeze because Riverside is probably not the optimal platform for live streaming, but I already paid the subscription, so I'm not about to go pay Streamyard, too. But no, so that's interesting. I mean, Pub Key, they are. They are crushing it right now. I mean, it's a pretty.
- [22:52]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [22:52]
Carla
Like, you know, regardless of your politics, it's pretty cool to have a former president come into your. Your bar, your, you know, your bitcoin bar. Not your crypto bar, your bitcoin bar and. And order burgers. Like, that's just, like. That's a neat cultural moment. And I feel like that's, you know, this. This idea of, like, you know, the third place, like, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Like, the first place is home. The second place is work or school, depending on what age in your life you're at. But then the third place, and where. Where else do humans congregate? And in America, at least, we've lost a lot of those. Those social clubs, those. You know, there's probably less of a bar scene or there's a. There's a different bar scene now than probably there was. You know, now it's. I guess depending on where you are, it's more of a club scene or whatever. It's not so much a hangout. It's. It's. It's something different. But I feel like Beefsteak is kind of Creating one of those third places that is in location agnostic. You know, a beefsteak can happen anywhere. Pub key is creating a third place in a very brick and mortar space, as you said.
- [23:58]
Away Slice
That's a good elevator.
- [24:00]
Carla
People crave those. Okay, great.
- [24:03]
Away Slice
Third.
- [24:03]
Carla
Are you free to take it?
- [24:04]
Away Slice
You say location agnostic. Third place.
- [24:07]
Carla
Yeah. Yeah.
- [24:08]
Away Slice
Are you sure it's not. Is it third space? Third place.
- [24:12]
Carla
Third place.
- [24:13]
Away Slice
Sounds like bronze medal. Sounds like what you get if I.
- [24:19]
Carla
Think that it's third place. But we can say third place or third space. I mean, let's. You know, I think it's open source. It. All right, well, yeah, okay. No, like, come with it. I'll send it to you later. Glad you like it. But I think that's a beautiful thing, right? You're creating a space where people can come together, can congregate. And the only reason people will keep coming back to that third place is if they have a good time, if they like the vibe there. And that vibe. Curation sounds like a very kind of floofy thing to say, but it's a very real thing.
- [24:54]
Walker
It matters.
- [24:54]
Carla
And I know you put a lot of thoughts, like, thought into that, but I wonder, can you put you in.
- [24:59]
Away Slice
Charge of marketing for beef steaks?
- [25:02]
Carla
I would be honored to. That. That would be awesome.
- [25:07]
Away Slice
Curation. I'm writing that down right now.
- [25:10]
Carla
Well, but that's. That's what you do, right? Because I think maybe for people. For people who don't know what a beef steak is, maybe it's more helpful for you to talk about, like, what a beef steak is. Not, like, because there are some kind. You know what I mean? Like, there are some kind of rules, like, unwritten rules, but then some other rules that are, I suppose, like, written down. Like, hey, we're not using utensils here. You're eating with your hands. You're gonna get messy. But, like, can. Can you talk about that? Like, what is a beef steak? Not. And then what. What is a beef steak?
- [25:42]
Away Slice
You know, it's like. It's so funny you say what a beef steak is not. Because that's always. That's always how I describe it. And that's always how I avoid describing it. Because it's really hard to describe what it is. It's always changing. It changes from place to place. It changes by size. You know, like, what it is and what it's intended to be is different. If it's 40 people coming and if it's a hundred people coming or 200 people coming. And, you know, it. It I always like joke, you know, like it's not a dinner but there's food. It's not a bitcoin event but it's full of bitcoiners. You know, like it, it really is kind of just a vibe curation, you know, like hopefully you're in there. The goal is to actually. You know what, this is kind of an interesting opportunity. Like I, I don't, I can't remember what we were talking about but before we got started I have all these kind of like semi secret policies about Beefsteak. I'm just going to talk about some of them because I never talk about them. I always like want to talk about them.
- [26:50]
Walker
Yes. I love beef.
- [26:52]
Carla
And you know what else?
- [26:53]
Walker
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- [28:04]
Away Slice
So I'll tell you my, my first one is that I never. I hate, I hate tiered ticketing and salespeople so I never ever try to sell a ticket to someone. I just like, I'm like here's the link and I and everyone pays the same price. There's no like early bird price and there's no like penalty for coming in late and you didn't plan that. Penalty for coming in late is like maybe that there's no more room and Then it's like, after that, I think that I always try to make them a little bit hard to get to. Like. Like, there's something about creating a barrier to entry that just. It's like putting humor in your resume. Like, you put humor in your resume, and then someone says to you, they're going to think you're not serious. And my response is, go fuck yourself. Like, I'm about to sign a contract with this company that, like, we're going to agree on how valuable my time is if you don't find value in the fact that I'm, like, putting humor in my resume. Like, I don't want to work for you. So, like, it. It's a filter for, you know, people that don't want to make the trip out to the east side of Nashville. Like, I get it. It's a pain in the ass. I don't even know if I would do it. But it also puts pressure on me to make it worth the trip, you know, like, if somebody's going to get in a taxi and come over there, you know, like, they need to get out of the car. It needs to smell good. It needs to sound awesome, you know, like, you need to get out and be like, hell, yeah, this was worth the trip. Like, just. Even when. Just when you're getting out of the car. And those things are super important to me that people have those feelings and sense those senses when they walk into a beef steak. Like, they get a cocktail that. And they're like, oh, that's better than I thought it was going to be. That sort of thing I put a lot of effort into every time I like a we. A beef steak is, like, 10 days out. I just sit down and look at all the logistics that I've lined up for the event, and I think about what the. What the experience would be like for the person that came to that beef steak. Like, they roll up, they get out. What do they see? What do they hear? Is there music playing? Do they hear a fire? Do they see a fire? Do they smell meat? Do they see meat? You know, like, how far do they have to walk to get a drink? You know, is there a line? That's another big thing. As I. A lot of venues want to have, like, control alcohol consumption. And I have a, like, hard policy that no one should ever wait for a drink at a beef steak, because I think waiting for a drink at an event is the worst customer experience that exists. If an event is two hours long and it takes 20 minutes to get a drink, I'LL tell you what I do without shame. I go to the bar, I wait there. I try to get the strongest drink I can that I can nurse. I try to get as many as I can because I don't want to come back at. The last thing I want to do is get up and go back to a bar. So as a result I probably get two martinis, which is a terrible. I. It's a terrible decision. You know, like, it's like, it's like I'm really resorting to two martinis because I don't want to, I don't want to go back. So what I do is I pound the first martini because I don't want to drink a warm, a second warm martini. Then I get halfway through the second martini, I'm just like this too much. And then I go back to the bar and I do the same thing. But I get two beers or something like that. And then. And in the end I spend. Both times takes 20 minutes to get a drink. I spent 40 minutes of a two hour event trying to get a drink and I had to break up conversations to do it. And I drank more than I needed to. And I probably wasted those drinks like. Cause both times I get two drinks, I probably set one down or I give it to somebody, you know, like. Or I just drink half of it. And you know, so I think the barrier to, I think restricting drinks makes people drink actually get drunker. Having coolers out. Of course there's always going to be some person that like goes overboard. But I think as a whole you go through way less alcohol with open coolers than if you had a bar with a bartender. Because then people are just like, I just want to get my drink and get out of here. Um, yep. So. So yeah, then I'm like, I'm like going through the experience of like what it's like, you know, like how long are there snacks out? What are the snacks? Are they delicious? Are they too filling? How long is gonna someone gonna be there between the time they arrive and the time of the first course? You know, is there a band playing? Are they the right vibe? Are they too loud? You know, like there's just all these decision and that, that's. Those are all contingent on like what's the place? You know, like I keep thinking about Nashville. Like I like the band in Nashville was really cool and it was perfect kind of Nashville band. Like it was just a great. I think the Nashville was a great vibe. I kind of, I kind of, I got bum help in the Kitchen, like the food was good, but like the guys that I ended up hiring were. Oh shit, you're having a Michelob Light.
- [33:59]
Carla
Oh, I'm having a Miller Light.
- [34:00]
Away Slice
A Miller Light.
- [34:01]
Carla
Sorry, technically, you know, I mean, we. Hey, if you want to grab a beer right now, we can.
- [34:07]
Away Slice
I'm gonna go get a beer. Gonna be right. It's gonna take me second.
- [34:10]
Carla
Get a beer. I'm just gonna talk to the live stream about the merits of Miller Light while you're gone. I don't know if you guys can hear this. Ah, there we go. So I also was double fisting for this. I should have triple fisted in advance of this because these Miller Lights just go down so easy. And I see we have Derek Ross there in the old live stream chat. And I know Derek loves himself a Miller Light even though he won't say it. He's. He likes to pretend that he probably likes some fancy IPA or something, but really, Derek is a Miller like guy. And that Derek, that's okay. I'm right. I'm right there with you, brother. So. And also thank you guys for being here and if you're liking this, go ahead and share this on Noster. These live streams are only going to happen on noster because fuck YouTube. So thanks for being here and hope you're enjoying it so far. And if you're listening at home, feel free to grab a beer as well, depending on where you are. If you're. Oh, no, it's like, it's like 2:30pm Where I'm at. It's probably later for a lot of you if you're in Europe or elsewhere, but it's never too early to have a beer. And what did you say? Okay, what is. What is Derek's last message here? Miller Lite disrespector. No, Derek, you're not. You love Miller Lite. You just don't want to admit it. And that's okay. It's all right. Now the question is, am I going to need another beer?
- [35:40]
Away Slice
It takes me longer than I thought.
- [35:41]
Carla
Hey, don't worry about it. I was just talking. Not with Derek Ross because it's a one sided conversation, but talking to him.
- [35:50]
Away Slice
Is Derek present?
- [35:53]
Carla
Derek is present in the audience. Hey, Derek, what beer did you go with?
- [36:00]
Away Slice
Actually, I couldn't find a beer. I'm having this never Sink whiskey.
- [36:05]
Carla
Oh, oh.
- [36:07]
Away Slice
Made in New York.
- [36:09]
Carla
Are you a. Because, okay, so at the events, typically it is a beer and I know, I think you recently introduced some seltzers because those have become fairly ubiquitous these days. There's occasionally hard alcohol if people want to, I think, bring their own, you know, people are welcome to it. Are you, Are you a beer guy yourself? Like, is that why you chose beer? Or was it just. That's the easiest thing to put a bunch of in a cooler and make sure everybody can get them.
- [36:38]
Away Slice
Oh, a beer. So the reason I say steak and beer is just because traditionally that's what they drank.
- [36:44]
Carla
Okay.
- [36:45]
Away Slice
I do love beer. But, you know, now at most, another interesting change over time has been what alcohol consumption is at a beef steak. Because it started out being heavy, like IPAs and porters and like, fancy beers, and it's really mostly wine now. Like, huge shift over to wine.
- [37:16]
Carla
Interesting.
- [37:17]
Away Slice
And. And hard seltzers. I've always had hard seltzers, but a lot of times people don't. They don't crush them. You know, I feel like hard seltzers is what people. This is what people say when they grab a drink. They're like, you know what? I'm not going to drink for a little bit. I'm just going to have a hard seltzer. Then I'm going to go back. I'm going to go back to the whiskey later. That's like.
- [37:39]
Carla
Then I'll have a real drink.
- [37:40]
Away Slice
Yeah, that's like their mentality when they reach for the hard seltzer. And I like, no judgment. I, I, that's kind of. I'm probably saying that because that's what I do like, but yeah, we do. Actually. This. This guy Dan, really quick backtracking to pub key. You should talk to. You should get Thomas on. Thomas is awesome. I don't know if you.
- [38:02]
Carla
I, I've. I've gotten a chance to meet him a couple of times. Awesome dude. I've actually, I've been meaning to reach out to him as well. Figured he might be a little bit busy right now with various press engagements and things, but I've been promising we're going to make it out to New York to go to Pubkey in person one of these days soon.
- [38:20]
Away Slice
It's awesome. Yeah, he's. He's an awesome dude. And yes, he is always busy, but, like, he'll also just, you know, find time to just be like, let's, like, let's drink a whiskey and talk over the air. And he'll do. He'll do that, I'm sure. Um, but I was gonna. The reason I'm gonna say that is the reason I was saying that is because one of the first people that helped me with V Stakes was this guy Dan. And Dan is like a cocktail master. And we often have like really fancy cocktails at Beefsteaks because of Dan. And he's also just great at hospitality and stuff. Like, he, he makes the beef steaks way better if he's around. But, but I say that because there's often like a fancy cocktail on deck somewhere at a beef steak or two, and you just gotta kind of make your way around and find them. And actually that's another thing that I like about a bee steak is no two people have the same beef steak. You might have a different meal, you, you can drink different things. And actually I feel like this is a good segue into talking about AI taking jobs.
- [39:35]
Carla
Yes, let's do it.
- [39:38]
Away Slice
There's something about like, I worked in really fancy restaurants for a while. When you work in a fancy restaurant, what happens is like somebody gives you a carrot and they say to you in the meanest possible way, I need you to cut this into perfect cubes and cook them perfectly for me at a moment's notice for 12 hours a day, whatever. When you cut perfect cubes out of a carrot, you waste 50% of the carrot. And what you get is, can be cool and is and is good. And it is the result of a lot of skilled work, but also what it ends up being is uniform. And I think that uniformity just no matter how cool it is, ends up being dull. It's boring in the end. And like, you get these really fancy places and then like the trickle down effect of like, whether or not you want to admit it, the trickle down effect of fancy restaurants perfecting food is McDonald's because they take all the skill and science that restaurants create, high end restaurants create, and they put it into automated food computers that make perfect french fries over and over again. And you can go to McDonald's anywhere in the world and eat the same French fry. And that is comforting. Like, there's an upside to that and I get it. And like, but the downside is that, like, everybody's eating the same French fry all the time and no one's interested in eat trying different french fries. French fries are kind of a bad example because I feel like an unusually small percentage of french fries are actually good. But, you know, it could be anything. Like, I just think the, if you drink a cup of coffee, what's beautiful about it is that it changes throughout the course of drinking it. You know, like, you take your first sip and it's hot and maybe it tastes stronger, or maybe there's foam on top and the foam hits your lips differently. And then as you drink through it, the foam disappears and it cools down. And maybe by the end of it, you know, it's just like a little bit of a journey. Whereas if you eat, like a perfectly cooked cube of anything, every bite is the same. And that's not interesting, with the exception of, obviously, if it starts out hot, it's going to cool down and it's going to be cold when you're finished with it. So I like the idea of cooking over fire a steak that maybe wasn't carved perfectly from a roast, because if you eat through that steak like it's a journey. Like, it's just like every bite's different. Maybe it's rare on one side, and maybe it's, like, crispy and crunchy but overcooked on the other side. And I like that about beef steaks, and I like creating that experience about beef steaks where it's not like, this is your seat, this person is on your left, this person is on your right. For the next three hours, we're going to give you all the exact same thing, and there's nothing you can do about it. And if those people suck, too bad for you, like, there. There's also nothing you can do about it. It's like a beef steak. You can, like, move around and try different things or eat different things, or you can just also be like, I don't want this one. I'm stuffed. I don't have room for this. Or whatever. Whatever the reasoning is when it comes time to. And then hopefully I eliminate all the bad decisions, and then people are left with the good decisions and can just make, you know, decide what is the best beefsteak for them while they're there experiencing it.
- [43:40]
Carla
Did you. Did you cook with just on open fire a lot prior to starting this beefsteak journey? Or was that something that you started doing because you wanted to keep these beef steaks kind of in that same. In that same traditional vein as these original ones that were happening. Happening around the turn of the century? Or were you pretty adept at cooking on open fire before that?
- [44:05]
Away Slice
I don't know. You know, so there's this book called Seven Fires, which I think everybody should at least like. Do people still hang out at Barnes and Noble Sometimes you should just. You should try much. You should try to flip through it sometime because it is. It really was the first like that I know of, or at least the first one that romanticized cooking on an open fire. And it's this guy, Francis Mulman. And he's like, he's from Argentina and he's, he is a badass. He has a bunch of restaurants and everyone that I've never been to one, but everyone that I know that goes to them is like, they're so good. But he always, you know, he's like an older dude. He always has some like hot 20 year old girlfriend and like he, he just like speaks like ephemerally about everything and. But that really got me into it where it's like you kind of. When you're working in high end restaurants, a couple of things happen. You get very. There's something about. In the highest level of restaurant cooking, there's something about like, you have to see. I keep doing this with my hands.
- [45:17]
Carla
It's okay, I'm into it.
- [45:19]
Away Slice
I'm like, when you, when you get into restaurants, there's something about like, you need to. In order to succeed in high end restaurants, you have to be very good at seeing what's wrong with things. Like, you have to be able to fix things. But part of like maintaining that super high quality is see, like looking at a thing and seeing what's, seeing how it's flawed. And that is a form of negativity and it's a terrible fucking way to live your life. Like, whereas, like when I worked in that, when I worked in high end restaurants, if somebody gave me like a lopsided steak that was like burnt on one end, I'd been like, this steak is fucked. Like, bring me a steak that was cooked properly but. But it's like life is fleeting, you know, like every year is different. Like if you have an apple tree, the apples are different every year. Like one year is going to be really good and you're going to be like, this is like the best apple I've ever had. I can't wait to have it again next year. And then next year it's a different apple, you know, like, you have to, you have to enjoy that apple the first time because it might be the only time. And it's the same thing with like a lopsided burnt steak where it's like, oh, maybe this was. Maybe it was a really good steak. Maybe it was from a good cow or whatever. Um, and so we like circling this all back to AI. Like I think sometimes about. Cause I am also a parent about like, what jobs will AI not take? And I don't know. I don't know. Could an AI do a beef steak? For sure. An AI could work at McDonald's, you know, like AIs, like Barely. Like if you work at McDonald's now, really all you do is press buttons. Unless you're Donald Trump.
- [47:16]
Carla
Well, you know, like, or even, I mean, take that up to something that's closer to like a fine dining. An AI can, you know, and robotics could handle a capital grill type steak experience where you have the menu, you have very. Like they've got their cooking temperature, they've got it in their manual, they've got the exact amount of time that you cook each type of meat exactly how you treat it. It's formulaic. And when something is formulaic, you can plug that formula into some sort of, you know, robotic machine and have it execute the same thing. Like it's, it's not too hard to have a robot that is going to take that and at the certain time or flip it off and maybe that robot even has an inbuilt temperature sensor. So it's actually a little bit better than the human at cooking that steak because it's making sure that that stake is flipped exactly when it's supposed to so that it's seared perfectly. But when you're like, I don't think, well, who knows, I'm no AI expert, but fire is incredibly unpredictable. Like inherently. Like it is literally random noise. Like it is by definition random. Like that'd be a great way to generate a bitcoin seed phrase if you're somehow tying it to the licks of fire going up, you know, because it is random. So there's, there's only going to be so much control that you can have on that if you're actually cooking in a wood, a traditional wood fired way. But I think the bigger thing is that experience. Right. And this is, we were talking just.
- [48:47]
Walker
Before we went live about this a.
- [48:48]
Carla
Little bit, this idea that, yeah, you could have, you know, and we're using AI in a very like general way.
- [48:56]
Away Slice
Right.
- [48:56]
Carla
But we're talking about, you know, some sort of automated process, non human process that is taking care of your food preparation experience. But part of the reason that people want to go and eat certain places is not just because the food is great. It's because they love that chef. They want, they know that chef's story, they love that chef's journey that he or she has been on. They like the experience that that chef creates. The type of people that go and eat that chef's food as well. And that's something that you're just not going to be able to replicate because that is that, that human quality of this is A personal experience. Personal meaning that there is a person involved. You're not just. You don't just go to eat because you want to get the most optimal food. You go to eat because you want to have an experience. It's not just shoveling calories down your gullet and, okay, I'm done. It's. No, I want to go have an experience, and I want to spend time with friends and family. Maybe I want to see that chef prepare the food right in front of me, and I want to hear the story of where that cow came from and how, you know, this was age and whatever it might be.
- [50:04]
Away Slice
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:04]
Carla
So I think that that's something that AI can't replicate, and that's also, like, that's a good thing. Like, and that. You know, I don't think an AI can replicate a beef steak. It could take all of your. You know, it could analyze all the beef steaks you've done, all the different ways that you cook the meat. You know, maybe it could figure out the grilling on fire pretty well, you know, with enough data, but it's not going to replicate the experience.
- [50:27]
Away Slice
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I.
- [50:29]
Carla
No, not at all.
- [50:30]
Away Slice
I think about AI. The AIs can replicate. They can. They can recreate, but they can't re. They can't create. Right.
- [50:45]
Carla
It's derivative.
- [50:46]
Away Slice
It's derivative. And then, like, what that sort of means is, like, to stay ahead of AI, you have to keep creating. And then it's like, of course I'm fascinated with this conversation. Like, I went to school for art, and I'm really fascinated by, like, what is art and what isn't, and, like, what art do you like? And I agree that people, when. Sometimes when they go to a restaurant, they're buying also the story, for sure. That's what they're doing with Francis Mulman, the Seven Fires guy. Like, they're just, like, they're. They want the romanticism of eating at a Francis Smallman restaurant or, like, Salt Bay or whoever is cool. Now, I don't know what the kids are watching these days, but when you. When you look at a painting. Have you ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by any chance?
- [51:41]
Carla
No, but it is sitting on my shelf waiting for me to read it, because I've had so many people tell me, you need to read it.
- [51:47]
Away Slice
It's so good. I read it as, like, an angsty teen, and I feel like it probably would not affect me as much now, but I. He talks a lot about, like, people Seeing quality in things and how naturally you can usually just see that quality. But he. And. And it sounds like it should start with a painting. And, like, you look at a painting and you're like, that painting is genuinely a fucking beautiful painting. And some paintings you look at, and there's like, a line and a square, and you're like, oh, that's not a good painting. But you need to have this, like, story and art. Art history lessons, and you need to go to, like, a liberal arts school for four years, and then you think it's a good painting. And I know that Safe Adine will never think that it's a good painting, but I. But I. Personally, there's a great Tim Ferriss podcast where he talks to a guy that does. He's basically like a therapist, famous therapist for people that are dying. And he's just like, stare at this Rothko painting until you find meaning. And it's like, such an arbitrary, weird art school assignment. And I hate. I hate it. But at the same time, I'm like, there is no meaning. Like, it just becomes, you know, it's just like, you can't find it anywhere. All that is like, come back to AI. I'm like, is, AI can make Rothko paintings. You know, it can, like, generate, but it's not making anything. It's just recreating stuff. But it doesn't. Like, our human minds don't perceive that. If it's a picture we've never seen before, we think it created it, and probably it's a picture no one has ever seen before. So there's like. It's just a semantics conversation anyways.
- [53:36]
Carla
Well, it's also that idea, like, a beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?
- [53:41]
Away Slice
Absolutely.
- [53:42]
Carla
Or behodeler, if we're talking in bitcoin terms. But it has the meaning that you give to it.
- [53:50]
Walker
Right.
- [53:50]
Carla
It reminds me of the assignments in high school where it was like. And this was me coming from being homeschooled until high school, then getting there and doing these really stupid fucking assignments. Like, oh, you know, like, what did F. Scott Fitzgerald mean by this in his book? And then you, like, look into it and you're like, oh, F. Scott Fitzgerald didn't mean anything by it. He was trying to make money by writing a book that people would buy. So, like, any meaning that you want to put in there, like, all these, like, things that you can concoct about. What is he saying about the human condition and all this, it's like, that's all just a byproduct he was just trying to write a good story. Like, the meaning is what you find there. And I think that's the same with a lot of art and. Yeah, to a, to a different extent with food. Because I think a lot of food is like, it's interesting you went to art school because I think, I mean, like, food is its own form of expression, right? Form of artistic expression that also happens to be edible and delicious, hopefully. But like, that's, that's kind of a neat crossover, right? This is a slight digression, but when did you decide, like, did you want to be like an artist? Did you want to be a professor of art? An art critic? When did you decide, I'm gonna be a. I'm gonna be a chef, I'm gonna cook food.
- [55:00]
Away Slice
It's. It's kind of weird. I actually. Part of. Oh, there's a couple. There's, this is, there's, there's a three part answer here. It might actually just be two parts. I think the first part is that I was quickly over art critiques. Like, part of going to art school is like you stand around with everybody and you just talk and you say all this esoteric bullshit about what everybody else's paintings are. And, and it often, it's like, it, it almost feels like the origin of Wokeness because you're in this, you're in this arena where you can only really comment objectively about the thing. You're not allowed to be. Like, this is a piece of shit that's like just strictly forbidden, especially if it's a piece of shit. And so it's like, you can't. It's like, it's like a form of dishonesty where you're just, you're just like kind of blathering on about art. And I didn't, I didn't like that. Like, I didn't like. There's this thing where it's like, if, if something is, if something has a use, can it be art? And I'm of the, I'm of the, I'm of the mindset that like, you should be, you should be able to perceive the value or quality of a piece of art or anything. You're consuming a steak without knowing the story. In other words, like, if a person comes to a beef steak, they shouldn't need to know who I am. They should need to know what the thing is. They should just come, they should know what it is before they're going, obviously, but, but once they know what it is, they should go there and be like, oh, yeah, this is awesome. And then I got over that with, I got over that at art school quickly. And the second part of it was the, like, when you were in art school, you work on projects for months at a time and sometimes they suck at the end of it. And that is, that was hard for me to do and still is hard for me to do. When you're cooking, when you go into a restaurant, a nice restaurant or even a shitty restaurant, you. You do the same art project every day over and over again. And no matter how shitty it is today, you get to wake up tomorrow and go back and do it again. So, like, you get better. It's like you go to a restaurant, you're like, I, when I worked at Gramercy Tavern, we did this dish that was like a crepe with crab and carrots in it. And that was the perfectly cut cubes and like it had this carrot reduction sauce over. You know, it's like, it was simple and it was hard to execute well, but it was fucking really good when you, when it was done perfectly. And it took me a long time to get, to get good at doing it. Like, I just had to do it over and over again. And then when you. There's no way it's a work. There's no way it crosses over in, in the Venn diagram of like, is it food, Is it art? There's no way it crosses over into art. The first time you make it, you have to make it 500 times before it starts to become like, oh, you see all the really minute details that can change and you kind of hone in on the things that are, are nicer about it and you just make it more beautifully and hopefully it's more delicious. So restaurants gave me an escape from the arbitrary, esoteric conversations of art school, and it gave me a more rapid fire way to create is not the right word, but just like, do something with my hands and complete it and then you're done. At the end of the, at the end of every day, you're done. Like, there's no like project that you have to wake up and face the next day. You just got to go back and do the same thing over and over again.
- [59:06]
Carla
I suppose it's also like the feedback you're getting is inherently like, brutally honest. It's like, did I, did the person eating there, did they like the food or did they not like the food? And obviously everybody's tastes are different, but you're getting this feedback day after day in real time. It's not people, you know, blowing smoke up your ass about, oh, well, I really liked the way that you made a painting that was just black and white and it's two circles. And I think that that was really talking about the plight of the modern man as he struggles with his own masculinity. No, no, no. It's just like. Yeah, that was a really good steak. I liked it a lot. I would eat that steak again. I enjoyed it. I had a good time. Like, it's. It's much more real. It's. It's. And quite literally, you know, tangible and goes into your body.
- [59:56]
Away Slice
Yeah, it's also functional. Exactly. Like, it's putting something into your body because you get hungry. You don't get hungry to consume Rothko. You know, like, you get hungry to put something in your belly. And that. That kind of makes it just in. In and of that quality. I feel like it. That makes it hard to make food art. I. I didn't really finish that statement earlier. It's like, if you can use something, is it art or is it design? And are you a. Are you an artist? Are you a craftsperson? If you're making something that's used and the example is like a flight of stairs, if there's a. If there's nothing at the top of. Top of a flight of stairs, it can be a piece of art. And there's actually like a website dedicated to this. Like, stairs that lead nowhere. And. And it's kind of an interesting idea because you're like, right now the stairs are useless. Like, it's just like, why would anyone walk up them? So all you can do is look at them and like, think about it and. But like, the second there's like a door at the top of the stairs, you're like, oh, those are well designed stairs, but they're not art anymore because you can use them. I kind of. That's kind of like my. How I think about art and usefulness and whether or not something is art or design. And there's obviously overlap there. But.
- [61:22]
Carla
You wouldn't call yourself a meet artist, for example.
- [61:25]
Away Slice
I would not. I would not, for sure.
- [61:27]
Carla
And actually, meet artist sounds kind of questionable too. Like, when you hear that, like, just.
- [61:32]
Away Slice
No, I.
- [61:32]
Carla
Out. Out of context, it sounds a little bit weird. So.
- [61:34]
Away Slice
Yeah, no, no. I used to be on my grinder PO Profile. Yeah, the. I think the other thing. That's another. Another thing about the usefulness of. I really am anti. The fancy restaurants put this into me, but I'm very anti food Waste. And a lot of times people want to do things like throw steaks at each other and, like, they want to have, like, eating contests and stuff like that. And I really don't like that stuff. Like, I don't like. I don't like if you actually. Because it's like the opposite end of the spectrum. Like, if you want fruit food to be art, you're. It's by necessity wasting it. And I fucking hate that. I hate wasting food, especially if it's an animal. Like, I don't know if you've ever gone hunting or anything like that. I had not, actually. I. Yeah, so. So, like, it's one part of the reason the way I got cooking. Started cooking was I was a vegan in high school, and my mom was like, cool, but I'm not making vegan food all the time. So, like, we'll give you some money and you can, like, make cook for yourself. But I'm not, like, just. I'm not making vegan food. And like, bless her heart, like, that was. That was the right thing to do. For a while, I just sauteed bell peppers and ketchup, and I still have a soft spot in my heart for ketchup peppers. But it set me on the path to being like, you can make more delicious food. And then, like, what? Then. Then, like, you get, like, a pork chop. And what happened when I started working in New York is they bring like. You're like, oh, a pork chop. Like, it's kind of easy to waste a pork chop. But then in Italy, or I worked in Italy, then I came back and I worked in a restaurant, and they bring like a half a pig in. And when they bring a half a pig in and you gotta cut it up and, you know, saw pork chops and, like, set aside the trotters and whatever, it's harder to waste that stuff, you know, it's hard to, like, cut a bunch of skin off and just toss it away. You're like, can we make cracklings? Like, what could we do with this? Yes, It's a lot of more work, but sucks to waste the animal. And that's where you, like, get away. It's romantic to use every part of the pig. A lot of people don't want to do it, but it's not. I don't. It's not an art, you know, it's definitely a craft, and you need to learn it. You need to learn it from an old, grumpy, conservative dude.
- [64:04]
Carla
Yeah, I. Yeah, I remember the first time I went deer hunting with my dad, I think I was maybe, I don't know, like 12 years old or so. And like, first. First deer I shot, I was actually with a. With a shotgun shooting slugs in. In southern Minnesota, because you need to shoot slugs down there because it's farmland and don't want your stray rifle bullet going too far. So you shoot slugs. And I still remember that first deer that I killed. It was a very young little buck, but I remember my dad starting to field dress it and having me do it with him. And like, without getting too graphic for anyone listening, the moment you need to cut the asshole and balls out of a deer in the field and then cut up its guts, pull all those guts out and clean that thing up and then drag that for a considerable distance, you gain a new respect for that animal because it is quite an intimate thing to do. And that was the first thing my dad said, is that we got to thank this animal and we're going to use every bit of it that we possibly can. And I think that that's like, because.
- [65:14]
Walker
Our society is so full of waste.
- [65:17]
Away Slice
Yeah. Hardcore.
- [65:18]
Carla
Like, it's insane. And I think when you're talking about, like, waste is bad enough just in a general sense, but about with animals specifically, it's like, that may not be a sentient being. Right. But that is still a living thing. And if you are going to kill that thing and eat it, you should respect it by using as much of it as you can.
- [65:41]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [65:42]
Carla
And I'm curious, with beefsteaks, do you. How do you. This is kind of a specific question, but I'm just very curious. How do you actually pick the kind of the cuts of meat that you're going to do? And do you like, do you work with any of the kind of, like the, you know, bitcoin ranchers that are out there too, that are, you know, selling beef for bitcoin, how does that, like, just kind of like nuts and bolts logistics actually work of getting ready for an event?
- [66:06]
Away Slice
The. It's. The answer is always. It depends. I definitely will always buy bitcoin from ranchers when I can. Or, sorry, buy beef from ranchers with bitcoin when I can. I think that my family were beef farmers in Missouri back in the day. I love supporting ranchers. I think, you know, as with any, like, real argument or conversation, it's like it. It's more nuanced than you want for it to be. Like, everybody's like, I could just give you a half a cow to do at a beef steak and like that actually, as romantic as it sounds, wouldn't really work unless I had like 10 days to like take it apart and cook everything and cure things. And like I really can only do stakes. That's not entirely true. Like, obviously I do other things, but I need to go in and be able to get like a hundred pounds of flank steak. And it's hard for a lot of ranchers to do that. So I don't, I can't always do it. Coal in Austin is awesome. His beef is delicious. He can usually come pretty close to that with enough advance notice. And yeah, I haven't done one in Austin for a while. But when, when I do, I try to like let him know and, and go through him. But I usually try to go through meat purveyors and there are like, you can still get really good meat and then obviously when it's smaller, if the, if a beef steak is going to be 30 or 40 people, I can go like the one we do in Riga, Latvia. There's this woman in estonia who's like 6th generation cattle rancher butcher store in this small town in Estonia. This guy lives there and he like, I just email her and like tell her what I want and they butcher the cow in advance and he drives it down to Riga for me. And so that usually does come from one or two cows. And she sends me the pictures and like it's expensive but the meat is really good. And, and like you said, the story is cool. You know, like you get to see pictures of the cows in the field and like the story of her family business and all that stuff. And then also just in Riga, the food is just I. Riga beefsteak is one of my. Somebody, somebody on Twitter or something somewhere maybe even messaged me was like, what's your favorite beef steak? There's no real answer to that because I think they're all totally different and. But the one in Riga is special and it's because I think Riga is a really special. Have you been to the Riga conference ever?
- [69:03]
Carla
I. I have not. And it, and it kills me because I've heard it's quite a special experience.
- [69:08]
Away Slice
It's really cool. And I think part of it is like goes back to like it's kind of a pain in the ass to get there and it just, it just puts up a wall for anybody that won't lay over. Um, and it is like the flights are terrible. Like you either have like a 25 minute layover in Oslo or you layover for like two days or something. Like that, like there, there's no, there's no, like hour and a half layover. You have to always sprint to your next plane, coming and going and. Yeah, I don't know. It's always a shit show. Get. I. My travel is always messed up getting there, but I always have the best time there. I. I love that. I love that. Did I answer your question? You said. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [69:54]
Carla
No, you. You absolutely did. And I'm curious, do you have a. Another specific question, but do you have a favorite cut yourself? Like, if you had to, you get to have one cut to have for dinner tonight and. Or maybe I should make it like you have to have one cut for the rest of your life. This is obviously a hypothetical, but I'm curious. Like, what, which, what, what part do you really love?
- [70:17]
Away Slice
I think the, the. The answer is ribeye. I think if I. Partly because, like, if I had to. If I was eating ribeye for the rest of my life, it's technically two muscles that are kind of good eaten. They're pretty forgiving. The ribeye is pretty forgiving. Like, if you get a strip steak and you cook that just a little bit too much, that thing is trash. I hate overcooked strip steak. Going back to, like, the imperfect steak. There is no imperfect strip steak. It's great or it's trash. Like, it just crosses that line. It's done. I really, like, I really think flat iron steak is way underrated. I think it's really tasty, it's really forgiving, and it's cheap. Like, it's like, you can, you can kind of get it anywhere. It's part of the shoulder. You can make stews out of it, or you can cook it as a medium or steak. And it's great both ways. If you make a stew out of a ribeye, it's kind of not that great. It's obviously super wasteful money wise, but, like, you could still do it.
- [71:21]
Carla
Yeah. Would that be your most under. Not the revive, but would that be your most underrated cut of steak? Or do you have another cut that you think people don't use enough that is actually very good and maybe more economical?
- [71:36]
Away Slice
I think it's probably the most underrated, but still available because I could say something like a Denver steak, but if you go to your local grocery store and be like, cut me some Denver steaks, he's going to be like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about next. And. But he should know what a flat iron is. Or it's Called a minute steak. Sometimes if it's cut across the thing, there's like a big piece of connective tissue going down. Dude, I have. Can I ask you some questions?
- [72:04]
Walker
Sure, man.
- [72:05]
Carla
This is an open format. We're. We're. I'm. I'm solid on time here. If you've got. Do you have another. No, no, I have 20.
- [72:13]
Away Slice
I have no time constraints. I have no time.
- [72:15]
Carla
Oh, sweet. Well. Well, then we're. We're rolling.
- [72:18]
Away Slice
But, yeah, I listened to this. I listened to. It was. It was like. It was Michael Malice and Dave Smith talking, and they were. It was around the time that you. I bet you I was listening to it while you and I were texting and. And Dave Smith was talking about. Because the reason I say that is because I was like, oh, I want to talk to Walker about this. Dave Smith was talking about, like, coming up with jokes and how you. When you come up with a joke, you really don't know. With a few exceptions, you don't know how it's going to be received. And I. And like, there's like. He's like, you know, if I come up with a hundred jokes, two of them, I'll be like, oh, these are going to be killers. And then they are killers. And then, like, there's 30 of them where I'm like, these are going to be great, and maybe 10 of them are great. And then the rest, you're like, okay, these are shitty. I. I should never do this. Um, and I actually. I feel that way about my own tweets. Like, the tweets that I think are my best tweets, they all have, like, two likes. You know, like, just. It's always that way. I just like. But I'm curious, when you're doing podcasts, do you feel like you have an idea of how it's going to be received when it's. When it's done? I guess it's. I guess it's also a process. Like, do you have an idea when you're. When you're done, do you have an idea of how you think it will be received and then how correct are you in that idea?
- [73:56]
Carla
Yes, and usually pretty correct. Like, I. Like, I can tell you right now that this is going to be received well and will be listened to a lot, like, relative to other episodes? Because I think that, like, this has not. Not to make this too formulaic, but this has a lot of things that people want, which is somebody who is very beloved by the community, you. Something that is bitcoin related, but not specifically bitcoin, because sometimes people honestly just get burnt out by just like, you can only hear that the dollar is going to collapse and the Fed's going to print money. Like, you can only hear that so many times. It's like, we get it. I know. And like, yes, it's. It's nice. And you know, or hearing, you know, like, like I hate bitcoin price predictions. I should say I have a love hate relationship with them because it's like, I find that to be mostly noise. But, like, that is some, like, that. That's the kind of stuff that does well like on YouTube, because you put a headline with me going like, oh, with a big old face. And you know, like, you won't believe this insane prediction from Michael Saylor. And. And then that, you know, the algorithm picks that up because people apparently like that kind of stuff on YouTube. But, like, that's why I genuinely, like, I don't look at YouTube when it comes to how my show is received. I look at the. Just the RSS downloads, like, what are the actual podcast downloads? Because I think that's a little bit truer. It's not as algorithmically driven. It's like somebody decided, oh, yeah, I. I want to listen to this. Not just like YouTube. The YouTube algorithm threw this to me. And so I'm gonna click on it and watch it. But yeah, it. Well, I'm curious. Do you. Do you have that with your. That same question with your food? Like with, with a beef steak? Or do you know, like, say, I.
- [75:47]
Away Slice
Have it with dishes? Like, I do. I'll do these dishes. And it's not even that. There's actually a couple sides to it. Part of it is when you're actually. Yeah, I'll just give this in. Because in restaurants, you. No one realizes how important menu writing is. And when you think about, like, you. Sometimes you go to a restaurant and you see this. You see eight things in a menu, and you're like, I would like to order one of everything, please. And then there's another time when you sit down at a restaurant and you're like, I don't know what to get. Like, what do you have? You know, like, what are you having? Like, when you ask someone, like, what are you having? It's like a bet sign that they are not great at menu writing. Um, but you like, I'll have things on a menu in, in a restaurant, just like, this is so good. Like, why are people in there? You just like, switch two words and it's just like the next Sign it's the most popular thing on the menu. And. And something about how it hits the brain at the table, just like cranks. And then I think the other thing is, like, just the functionality of a dish. Like, if I make a beef steak course, there are so many times where I'm like, Or at the end of the night of a bee steak, I'll be like, this one thing was. Was really good tonight. And other people will be like, that was the best. Like, no one ever mentions the thing that I thought was the best one. They always say talk about other things. And actually, I. That is almost 100% of the time. Like, the thing that I'm. The thing that I was the most excited about is almost never the thing that people are. The mention to me later.
- [77:21]
Carla
What's the thing that makes you the most excited about it? Like, how do you determine out of these seven different courses that you delivered, how do you determine which one that you are the most stoked about? Is it just something technical in the preparation side? Is it just you tasted it afterwards and that's the one that you thought tasted the best? Or how do you judge that, personally?
- [77:42]
Away Slice
That's a good question. I think it goes back to the whole Zinn, the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, because the whole thing about that book is, like, the guy is just pursuing quality. He's looking for quality and trying to define the word. And he basically goes crazy trying to define it. But he talks about how you know quality when you see it. And different people get better at seeing different types of quality. Like, mathematicians can look at a mathematical equation and be like, that's a beautiful equation. And he talks about working on a motorcycle, and he talks about how simple. Whatever his Harley Davidson is and how, you know, whatever. So that is all that is to say is, like, the best beefsteak course is the one that speaks to your tongue. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter how pretty it is. It doesn't matter. The story of the steak, all that shit goes out the window when you take a bite. Like, the only thing that matters is you. You just go, oh, man, that's really good. And so few of the things that we eat are truly delicious. You know what I mean? And you really have to be paying attention because you can miss it. You can miss it, and it might not be there. Not only next week. Like, once it's gone. Like, once people finish it, you know, can I have more? They're like, it's gone. No, you can't. There's nothing like I can't make it again. So that's the thing where I'm like, that's where. That's where. Those are my favorite beef steak dishes that you just put in your mouth and you. And there's, you know, forever. Whatever reason, you just know immediately that it's delicious.
- [79:26]
Carla
It's surprising to me though, that, like, what the. Like you said, almost always, whatever you're hearing from people at the end of the night, that was their favorite one is not the one you would have picked. I mean, do you think that just comes down to, like, not to sound like horitori, but do you just have like a more refined palate? And so you are, you are like, maybe you're judging your own creation more harshly. Is that part of it, do you think?
- [79:52]
Away Slice
I'm probably, I don't think I have a more refined palate. I'm probably looking for more. I'm probably looking for more high end notes, you know, like, I'm thinking more about, like, what's the texture? What's the acid level of the dish? You know, like, are there crunchy things in there? Is there a pickled thing on top? You know, like, is there some sort of hit of salt that comes at the beginning or the end? You know, like, what's the, what is the arc of the bite once it's in your mouth? I probably think about that more because, like, you know, if there's an olive in there and like, you miss it and then you hit the olive and you're like, oh, it's like a little salty pop there. You know, it's like, I'm probably paying more attention to that stuff. I don't know if I'd call that refined, but. But I am looking for it more because I think refined or not, you still notice those things, you know, and maybe that's the other part of that, that discussion is like, you do get better at delivering things that people automatically think is delicious. Like, you just, you get better at it. And maybe that's the art, you know, like, maybe the art is, you know, giving quality to people more consistently and higher quality over time, hopefully. Hold on, I got. I have another podcast question for you.
- [81:15]
Carla
Oh, okay. Love it.
- [81:17]
Away Slice
I am curious about. I did in warmup for this episode, I listened to some of your podcast episodes. I don't listen to many bitcoin podcasts anymore, I will admit. And it is because I have just limited my intake to. I cut all news out of my life, which I think is a great thing. I am not going to vote this year, which I have never done before. But I, it has let me be more unbiased, I guess. You know, like, I don't have a team anymore. I'm politically homeless and I was never like, hardcore one way or the other, but I can't handle the political teams. And so anyways, in. In listening to Warm up. To Warm up this guy, I. I totally sidetracked myself there. I don't remember what I was talking. Anyways, I was going to ask you kind of like what your thought process was. Oh, you. You were talking on one of your episodes about doing short form content with Carla and getting some sponsors and stuff like that and going in and out of that stuff. And then like, you've started this podcast and you, you said something like, I, it's an, it's an opportunity to talk to people. And actually I would say, like, I'm obviously in having a great time. I'm sipping on whiskey. I haven't had, like, I know you, I consider you a buddy, but we haven't had like a night out. You know what I mean? Like, we haven't like dinner and just like chilled out and had a beer, like, which is kind of where you cross over and you can like develop like a rapport with the person, but also just become friends and talk about shit that no one's listening to.
- [83:01]
Carla
Yeah.
- [83:03]
Away Slice
And then, and then. So I'm curious, like, why, why you are making a longer form podcast, which I like. I love that you're doing it. I respect you for doing it. And then like, is there a goal? How do you get in? Like, what's your process? Stuff like that.
- [83:26]
Carla
Well, first of all, I would of course much prefer a off the mic, nice dinner and subsequent drinks with you to an on the mic conversation, especially separated by great distance.
- [83:41]
Away Slice
We'll do that.
- [83:43]
Carla
That. You know what, it's a date. That sounds like a blast. But no, like what I had said, I think I've, I've said it a couple of times because it very much is true. Like, I started this show because I like talking to bitcoiners. Like, I've met some really amazing people because of bitcoin. I've met, you know, you because of bitcoin. I attended, you know, I think I've got three beef steaks under my belt now. That's because I, you know, I don't think I would have heard about that if I wasn't, you know, running in these bitcoin circles. So, like. And I've met great people at Beefsteak too. That you, you know, you're throwing meat down your gullet together and having a great time and like, it's just such an incredible melting pot. But I do, you know, I still have a fiat job, still mind fiat, as they say. And so for me, this podcast is not like a money making endeavor. I'm lucky to have a very great sponsor, bitbox, who has supported this show from early on. And I'm very grateful for that because it is nice. There are certain costs associated with it, for example, like getting a nice microphone and things like that. But I would do this even if nobody was sponsoring the show because I think that as I know there's the meme like, oh, there's too many bitcoin podcasts. I think we need as many bitcoin podcasts and more as there are tradfi podcasts. Like, we need to overwhelm. We need to sink that tradfi ship by overwhelming it with a flood of bitcoin podcasts. But not just specifically about bitcoin or number go up. I think the, you know, fgu, the freedom go up part of that is a really like a more important and more interesting part of the conversation. I also think just talking to people whose lives have changed because of things they started doing around bitcoin, but not talking specifically about bitcoin like we're doing here today.
- [85:34]
Away Slice
Yeah, I mean, we've barely talked about bitcoin.
- [85:37]
Carla
Exactly. Because, you know, we, we don't necessarily need to. Right. And I think that part of. I think it's very powerful for people to come to bitcoin, not just because they heard some podcast where all the technical details of bitcoin were elaborated upon in great detail, but because they heard a story about somebody who was doing something kind of related to bitcoin and they liked that person, they liked that idea and they liked whatever they were doing with their life and it inspired them in some way or maybe it made them hungry for a nice steak, I don't know. But I think that those conversations are, are really useful for people to have and important. And so, yeah, my end goal with this show, no end goal. Just keep on doing it whether it's sponsored or not. Because, like, for me, like, I don't, I don't watch sports. So you figure any time that I would spend watching sports and caring about sports, I just figure I dedicate that to bitcoin and making a podcast. And if a few people listen to it and get value from it, that's enough for me. And again, it gives me an Opportunity, a great excuse to chat in a longer form setting with folks like you. I would love to do these things in person, like more so, but with the little guy. Right now travel is, is low on the priority list. But yeah, I'll take that data pub key any day.
- [87:00]
Away Slice
This is a good stepping stone way to do it though. You know, like you get this like foundation on these first episodes and then like when he gets older and you, it's easier to move around and before he starts school, like you can get out there and maybe people can come to you more. But also like you'll get around and get to some. I get. But I'm seeing like, I'm seeing you guys listed on conferences coming up. Are you guys going to travel and actually, you know what? This is probably personal controversy. We don't have to go.
- [87:26]
Carla
No, no, that's okay. I can say just because it's, it's completely public. We're going to be in El Salvador in January for the, for the Plan B El Salvador conference. So they have the Plan B in Lugano. We MCed that for the inaugural one two years ago now. And they run a really great show and they're doing one in El Salvador. We haven't been back to el Salvador since 2022. And so I'm honestly stoked to get back there. Have you, have you been down?
- [87:52]
Away Slice
I haven't been.
- [87:53]
Carla
Wait, you, you have not been yet? Yeah, I've had some good beef in El Salvador. I'll say. Sure, yeah, yeah, It's a cool country. I don't know. It's an inspiring place too because you see a lot of people very hopeful and that's something that I think we need more of in this world. Like people that are generally just like stoked about the future. Like, wow, things are getting better. Life is much better than it was a year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago. That kind of optimism is really contagious, I think. And so it's, it's cool to go down there. I'm excited to go back. Are you doing any more beef steaks this year?
- [88:31]
Away Slice
You know, I was kind of like aligning my. Oh, this year am I doing more beef steaks? Nothing public. I did like, I do some for, I do some private events. Like I do some for bitcoin companies. And then I do them for like sometimes people will be like, I want to do it for my rehearsal dinner or something like that.
- [88:56]
Carla
That's an awesome rehearsal dinner.
- [88:58]
Away Slice
Yeah. Yes, I think so. I would like rehearsal dinner or even a wedding dinner. People will do. So I have some stuff like that that's like private, not on the open thing, but I don't know my open one. Like this next year, the bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. I don't love Las Vegas. You guys lived in Las Vegas for a second, right?
- [89:22]
Carla
We lived in Las Vegas. We were going to move there. We lived there for like, like five, six months. Just like doing a long term Airbnb thing. And then. Carly, wait.
- [89:32]
Away Slice
Like a crazy Airbnb story.
- [89:34]
Carla
Oh, God. Yeah, it was, it was, it was. You know, honestly though, it was a great example of like going viral on social media actually leading to a meaningful resolution to something. Because, like, I think, like, we had multiple people reach out and be like, I know somebody, like, high up at Airbnb. Let me, like. Because the video went like, really viral because Carl is very good at making engaging short form content. Right.
- [90:00]
Away Slice
You remind me what happened. It was like a. Was it like a flood or something? Like.
- [90:05]
Carla
No. Well, first, the. Let's just say that one thing was the house was not as advertised, which would have been fine if we weren't like paying a substantial amount for it. Like, it was a lot of. Of a lot of Fiat that could have gone towards SATs, but the house looked very nice on the pictures. Not so much when you got there. The other thing was they were doing like. They were doing basically like full. Ripping out all of the roads around this house and doing like really like heavy machinery work.
- [90:33]
Away Slice
That's right.
- [90:34]
Carla
For like the. It would have been like for the next six months. And. And we were like, well, this is. It would have been nice to know about that because there's like jackhammers all day, every day, nonstop, and we've got a barky little dog. Like, this is not a good situation. Yeah. And then basically they would like, not refund or do anything like that. But so we were like, screw it. We'll just eat this massive cost. We'll book a new place. The new place was lovely. But they ended up refunding us actually, like, good on them. I mean, probably if we wouldn't have gone viral, they wouldn't have refunded it, but they did. So, like, I've got to give them credit. So that was nice. And then they gave us a, you know, a little extra, like, bonus on top because they were like, we feel really bad about this. It's like, okay, sure you do. You just. Guys. You guys just got called out very publicly and you want to make amends for this. Like, I get that. But if we didn't have that audience or, you know, that platform, I think we would have just been shit out of luck.
- [91:26]
Away Slice
But yeah, yeah, great.
- [91:27]
Carla
Grateful we did. I mean, it's like one of those things where it's beneficial to be able to. Or to have a large social platform, you know, whether it's X or on. On Noster. Probably better on Noster because you can't potentially get booted off of there. But like us small folks, us plebs can actually have an outsized voice these days.
- [91:50]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [91:50]
Carla
And like, you see that legacy media platforms, like, I'm so sick and tired of all the election stuff because it's just all just such blatant propaganda. And it's like, I can't wait for the election to be over so that we can, you know, go back to complaining about whoever won and then, you know, in three more years start up this whole election racket again. That's the thing. It's like there's no break from it. I think you did the right thing just fully tuning it out. I just, it's like a car crash. I kind of like love. Like, there's like a sick joy in watching this chaos. Like, I don't actually like watching car crashes, but, you know, just the analogy.
- [92:25]
Away Slice
Yeah, I mean, I will, I'll tell you my. I told you before we started, like, I lived in the city before and now I live in the country. And this is probably partly from like, one of my habits is like every Friday I take like micro dose mushrooms and hike in the woods with my dog. And if the season is right, I'm mushroom hunting and I just kind of go on like a unlimited hike. Not like I go like really far into the woods, but I don't, I go out there with like, not necessarily a time to come back. And that has been so peaceful for me. And it has highlighted the. My own vulnerabilities to just algorithms, you know, and how having Noster that has no algorithm to me is like a walk in the woods. And going back and looking at Twitter is like going back to New York City and, you know, just seeing a homeless guy on the street, which is tragic. And I don't think that that should exist, but it's terrible to see and you can't look away. And Twitter knows that, like it continually feeds you the things you can't stop looking at. Like, that's what it's. That's the whole purpose of it. And if you, if a human tendency is to look at things we don't want to See, then. Then you know, the end result of looking at Twitter is that you're going to be unhappy. And I don't know else, I don't know else to like say it. It just feels like a good reason to take Twitter breaks. The whole political thing is like the prime example of all that stuff. It's a hard road.
- [94:16]
Carla
Really good analogy, by the way. Like, I like that, like Nostra's a. It's a walk in the woods versus the centralized platforms are a trip into the heart of a heart of a city. Like it is. I mean, just stimulation wise.
- [94:29]
Away Slice
Yeah. As well.
- [94:29]
Carla
Like, it's hard on yourself. Yeah. And like our attention is. Is very limited. That's like just a. You start to like, you know, again, I'm a new dad and so you start to realize it's like you have a lot less time that you can just excuse by like wasting it. Just doom scrolling.
- [94:53]
Walker
Right.
- [94:54]
Carla
Because it's like, yeah, well, why. Why am I doing that instead of playing with my son? Right. Like, that would be insane of me to do that.
- [95:02]
Walker
Right.
- [95:03]
Carla
Like, and what a waste of my precious attention that I could be spending on my wonderful offspring or my beautiful wife. Like, shame on me, you know, that's just it.
- [95:12]
Away Slice
It's like the consequences. I do this with food. Once you have kids, it's the ultimate. They're the ultimate responsibility. And the consequences of your decision are theirs. And they can't decide, like, your decisions are their decisions. If you look at Twitter and it turns you into a grumpy asshole and then you're a bad dad as a result, then, like, you know, that's a bad outcome of looking at Twitter. And I do think that that happens. I think that like, social media, Facebook makes people angry. And then they turn around and then their anger, they take their anger out on people around them for whatever is. Ha. Whatever they're seeing on from an algorithm on an app. And that's where like real world consequences of like Twitter algorithms come into play, you know, like, it makes people bad parents. It's like it's. And it makes your. It's a lower quality of life. And it's sad all around. Like, if you can separate. If you can succeed at separating yourself from it, which I'm not saying I have done. I still look at Twitter sometimes. Like, I go down that thing, but when I do it, I'm like, oh, sh. Like, I like, oh, how'd I do that for two hours? And I feel terrible now and then I can't sleep and then I'm Like I really should not do that anymore.
- [96:32]
Carla
It is insane. Like the actual like, like the phys. The physiological effect of something like just, I mean any social media. Like I don't use TikTok, but I imagine that that is probably even worse because it's just video content. Their, their algorithm is like very, very good. Clearly that's why it's been so successful as an app because it keeps people just planted there, just non stop. And it's like, I mean, I don't know, it's precision. It feels good for a second. Right. But then. All right, sorry, what'd you say?
- [97:04]
Away Slice
It's precision dopamine. But the thing about it is it doesn't even feel good for a second. It feels good for a fraction of a second, but you can keep getting that fraction of a second over and over again as long as you want. And it's like, that is crazy. That's like more crazy than any drug. So it's insane.
- [97:26]
Carla
Slight tangent, but speaking of fatherhood, do you, what do you, what do you cook at home? Do you cook a lot of like, are also. Are you carnivore or are you going.
- [97:35]
Away Slice
Back to what a beef steak is not? A beef steak is also not a carnivore event, contrary to popular belief. I like to do vegetables and fish and other animals and stuff like that. I am not a carnivore. I've never really, I've done hardcore keto, ketogenic diet stuff. Um, I feel like that I did that kind of relatively early. I feel like that really got side railed by like labels. You know, like you go to Costco and you're like, here are these keto snacks. And none of them are. They all actually have a bunch of carbs in them.
- [98:17]
Carla
Yep.
- [98:17]
Away Slice
And like if you're, if you're eating carbs while you think you're doing the ketogenic diet, you're really just eating the American diet, which is like eating lots of fat and carbs. And so I don't. That's a long winded answer of no, I'm not a carnivore. Beef steaks are not a carnivore event. And I've had weird.
- [98:37]
Carla
Beans are welcome. Yeah. They just might have trouble finding something to eat, but they are welcome. Right.
- [98:43]
Away Slice
You know, I will say this. To date, five vegans have come to Beefsteaks and left meat eaters.
- [98:53]
Carla
Really?
- [98:55]
Away Slice
And yeah, and there have been other vegetarians have come, but they've stayed vegetarians. It's the vegans that you get. The vegans that you get.
- [99:05]
Carla
Do you think it's that they get around those smells and they literally like cannot help themselves? It's like, oh boy. I just, I need some of this. Like my body is telling me I need it.
- [99:15]
Away Slice
That's a good question. I don't know. I actually part of the reason that I stopped being a vegan was because I had. I started getting headaches from B12 deficiency. And just eating like a piece of fish once a week made me feel a world. It was like a world of difference for me. It is like, who knows? Yeah, who knows? I didn't want to get into like talking about diets cuz it's just like I don't. I'm not ever encouraging. The only thing I want is delicious. When I'm shopping for food, like I want to support ranchers, I want all that stuff. But the main thing I want is delicious because I want that bite when it's in your mouth to be really good. And then you ask what you asked. You're talking about cooking. Yes, I do cook at home a ton. I have. We have one kid that will is a good eater and will eat a bunch of stuff and we have another kid that is a picky eater. And then my wife is pescetarian.
- [100:15]
Carla
Okay.
- [100:15]
Away Slice
So it's like you gotta kind of thread those needles of, you know, like hitting all those things. And so, so we kind of have like a little bit of a rotation that we go with. You get like a pantry going and you're like, every once in a while we, we branch out and do something weird. We actually did. Have you ever gone like, had like Chinese hot pot? We actually did that this week. This past weekend.
- [100:40]
Carla
Carla and I have hot pot at least once a week. We have our. We have our own. We have multiple of our own hot pots.
- [100:48]
Away Slice
So you do it at home? Oh, that's awesome.
- [100:50]
Carla
We, we do it, we do it at home. We go out for it like any, any city we're in. We try to find a hot pot place and you can usually find one and it's usually fantastic and like a small. Sometimes there's small little hole in the walls, other times they're like, you know, larger chain type places. Yeah, it's always good. And it's a, like it talk about just like a wonderful dining experience. Like, it's a great. It's fun to bring somebody to their first time having hot pot too because you know, you're like a little bit nervous. You're like, okay, I'm like dipping this stuff in myself. Yeah, it's, it's great.
- [101:23]
Away Slice
You have to be present. Have to be. Yeah, there's, there's some, there's some study. I like read it and I can't, I can't go back and I can't find it. But it's like, it's basically compares food memories of people at very fancy restaurants to shared meals. And basically the study kind of like it was like they would go to a fancy meal and ask them like four days later, like, what did you have at this three star restaurant the other night? People would be like, I don't know, I had this thing in a martini glass and it was like jello Y and there was cream on top. Like they can't remember what they had. But if you go to a family style restaurant where you share everything, they remember the food really well. Be like, oh, they had this pasta with broccoli and sausage. It was a little bit spicy. And then they had this Caesar salad that had like extra croutons and they put these anchovies on top. Those anchovies were, you know, like they just really remember the meals. People remember meals they share and they forget meals. They forget plated meals. Which is another kind of like thing about the beefsteak is like hopefully and hot pot, like you just, you have to be present. There's no way to like absent mindedly eat hot pot. You have to be present to eat it.
- [102:43]
Carla
Beef steak, we know. Another thing I like. So like you, it's usually like a no. I don't know if this is an explicit rule, but it's at least it's like a no photo kind of environment. Like don't, you know, like, hey, there are people here who don't want their photo taken at all. Like, especially, you know, you're around a lot of bitcoiners who may be nims. Like you're being respectful of that, which I think is awesome. Yeah, I think the. But the other great side effect of that kind of policy is people aren't just out staring, like having their phone out because they're going to take a picture soon of something that comes out so they can post it. But when you take that away from them and it's like then they don't, they don't. They're not just having their phone in their hand the whole time. Like it again, again, because you're eating with your hands, you are getting messy at a beef steak that is bringing it to be present. Was that, was that always the case? Like, hey, no, no pictures or Was that something you kind of developed later on to curate?
- [103:36]
Away Slice
We did it from. It was more hardcore in the very beginning. Part of what started that as just going to New York bit devs, they're pretty hardcore about no photos at New York bit devs. And they'll, they'll pounce on you. Like, if some guy pulls out their photo and like someone pulls out their phone and takes a photo or tries to take a video, they'll be like, no photos, please. Can you please delete that? Like, you know, like, they'll get on you about it. And I think that it. I am a big believer in privacy. I think it's important and I think that when you. The thing that people who are not concerned about privacy take for granted is that when they aren't private, they also compromise the privacy of the people around them. And so when you come to a beefsteak or any bitcoin event, you're responsible for everyone's privacy. And so you. There needs to be like a lowest common denominator. And I think one of those is just don't take pictures. Like, don't take pictures with 10 people in the background. And of course people take pictures. I actually have a note. The rule is no pictures without consent. And that means like, specifically no one can be in that picture that doesn't know they're in that picture. And. And then I also ask not to post media about it and stuff like that. But then like, there is all these like, side effect benefits of that rule that people have to be present and you're not looking at your phone. And I just like, I remember watching the Super Bowl a couple years ago and like when all those guys come out and they give each other high fives, a lot of them have their phones out and they're videotaping. And that just struck me as like the craziest thing in the world. You're at the most filmed event in human history and you're. You have the opportunity to be present and your choice is to pull out your phone and experience it through a screen. Like, it's so crazy to me. It's so crazy to me. And like 50% of the players like, pull out their phones and they like videotape each other. And I'm just like, guys, someone is already taping this. You can just be present. Like, you can get all the footage you want from this event of you standing there high fiving your friend. It's just so crazy. I don't, I mean, I see it, I have those instincts sometimes, but I don't. It was very striking to me watching that.
- [106:09]
Carla
It's a freeing thing to put your phone away, especially when you are around people. Like when you are around friends, family. It is a very freeing thing to be like, you know what? I'm doing the most important thing I could be doing right at this moment. And so I don't need my phone, right? Like, there's no reason I need that.
- [106:31]
Walker
I'm already doing exactly what I want.
- [106:33]
Carla
To be doing at this moment in space and time. And you will not fully, like, you cannot be fully present if you are constantly on your phone. Like, it's just, it's not possible, right? It is sucking your attention away. Like, you can't concentrate on two things at once and still have the same level of attention. It's just not going to happen. And that's, I think, like, again, it's, it's really interesting to me, this kind of, I don't know, almost like Legend of the Beef Steak that you've been able to create where, like, as you said, you're, you're not doing any fancy marketing. You're not, you're, you're not going around trying to show this to everyone. It's like, here's the link. You know, whoever signs up can sign up. They always sell out. I'm pretty sure, like, there's never an issue with attendance. Like, it's usually the opposite. Opposite issue of probably you have people hitting you up saying, hey, is there any extra room? And you're like, not the, you know, the tickets are the tickets. But like, this is very opposite of most experiences that people have, because most experiences are pushed on them repeatedly until they finally, like, okay, I like, I'll do it. This is like, maybe that's part of that self selection that you mentioned of making it tough to get to. It's like, you're not pushing this on people. Whoever wants to be there is going to find a way to get there. But I think that that's like, it's very unique, especially in this day and age, to have that kind of experience. Because it's not, it's not like, you know, exclusive in the sense that, you know, you're not like turning, turning a bunch of people away. Like, no, sorry, you know, you're not on my list of preferred people. Unless maybe it's a smaller event. But like, you are. It's. Here's an event, you can come to it. If you don't, that's fine. But you've developed, I mean, like, there's basically Like a subculture of bitcoiners, which are just, like, beefsteak groupies. And I say this about men and women. Like, I. And having been to a few of them, I know why. Because it's a culture that you've created that makes people just want to be there. And I think it's. I don't know. I don't even have a question there. I just want to say it's very special, and I think it's impressive what you've been able to do, and I'm glad it exists. The beef's good, too. You know, there's. There's that. That's a nice.
- [108:45]
Away Slice
Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that sentiment. I hope. I hope it's all true. I hope people feel that way when they go, yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I love doing that. It's my dream. It's my dream job, and I couldn't do it without people coming to it. So, like, I am grateful to every person that comes all the time.
- [109:06]
Carla
I'm already looking forward to the next one.
- [109:08]
Away Slice
And I want to say that I always say this. I have a. My. I always say my return policy. I don't. I don't put it in the. Maybe I should put it in the thing. My return policy is you can always get your money back for a beef steak within 21 days, but you can never come to a beef steak again.
- [109:28]
Carla
Ooh.
- [109:29]
Away Slice
So, like, if you didn't like it, that's fine, because I don't think it's for everyone. It's not a thing that's designed for everyone to come to. And you. But you can just. You won't be able to come back, which I feel like is kind of fair. Like, if you want to crush it, you can. And there's a time limit on that. I do it differently, but it's probably 21 days or something like that. Like, you can't call me for this beef steak you went to for two years ago and be like, I want sat back. You should probably put some caveats that. Just 21 days. 21 days, satisfaction guaranteed.
- [110:10]
Carla
I mean, have you actually had somebody, like, request their money back after one before?
- [110:18]
Away Slice
No, I have had people complain, and I offered them their money back, and they didn't take it. Though I did say that if they took their money back, they couldn't come back to a restake, and they must not have.
- [110:34]
Carla
They must not have, like, had that big of complaints then. Like, that's, you know, like, it can't have been that drastic.
- [110:40]
Away Slice
I can't tell this story. I can't tell the story. It feels the person like it. The person. It's really specific. But it was a really weird circumstance. It was a really weird circumstance. So weird. But I was certain that someone was playing a joke on me. But it turned out to be real. One of those situations.
- [111:00]
Carla
This will. This will have to be a story off the mic when we have that pub key date.
- [111:06]
Away Slice
Yeah. Make the pub key talking note. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
- [111:11]
Carla
Well, is there anything. Because I want to be. Want to be conscious of time here and we've been. Didn't even realize we've been running almost two hours here. It's been a treat. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to get out there or anything else that's on your mind? This is always an open space.
- [111:30]
Away Slice
I have one last podcast question for you. It is, what is the. I was thinking about how to phrase this. I'm not going to phrase it correctly, but I guess what is the podcast episode of yours that probably if someone's scrolling through, they wouldn't listen to, but you think they should listen to? Oh, in other words, like, if someone scrolls through, they're going to listen to Lynn Alden, they're going to listen to Jeff Booth. Who would they not listen to that you think they should? Like, I listened to part of the goat guy conversation today, and I. I stopped because I was like, getting phone calls. Not because I wanted to stop listening to it, but I. I'm not using that as an example, but I'm just like, if I was scrolling through, looking for the podcast to listen to, that would not be. That guy, would not be the podcast. And I would think that same thing about myself. Like, if you're new to bitcoin, you're not going to scroll through and like, listen to the away slice episode. Like, I wouldn't either. You know, like, what is the. But the most. The most interesting ones are. I don't know.
- [112:47]
Carla
No, it. It's true. Sometimes they very much like you because you're right. People are always going to listen to a Jeff Booth or a Lynn Alden. Like, they're. They're just. They're going to do it regardless. Which is great because those are. Jeff and Lyn are fantastic humans who deliver an incredible amount of signal. And it's really, really useful. One that I would say maybe a conversation that just. I personally really enjoyed that was somewhat about bitcoin, but more I would say just philosophical in nature, was with Max Hillebrand. I don't know if you know him. And, you know, we didn't talk any bitcoin price action or things like that. We talked about, you know, Austrian economics and anarchy and morality and, you know, the nature of the state. And he's just a fascinating guy. And that. That's one that I would say, like, if folks don't know him, I would really recommend listening to that episode because it's fascinating and he's just like. He's a wealth of information and just a cool dude. Also has a very sweet beard like yourself, so that maybe, you know, I'm partial to that.
- [114:03]
Away Slice
Yeah. You know, I know.
- [114:05]
Carla
Yours is impressive.
- [114:06]
Away Slice
Yeah. Sorry.
- [114:08]
Carla
I gotta say, it's. Oh, go ahead.
- [114:11]
Away Slice
Yeah, no, you know, later on, I'm gonna send you a picture of my uncle. I look like my uncle right now. The beef. The beef farmer.
- [114:19]
Carla
Okay. Okay. Was that. Was that intentional to look like your uncle with the beard or just.
- [114:24]
Away Slice
It's beard season genetics. I don't have any control over it.
- [114:29]
Carla
Fair enough. Fair enough. But no, that. That would definitely be. Be one that I would really recommend for, folks. And just one that, like, I want to have Max back in the show because he's a. Again, just a. A really cool dude.
- [114:43]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [114:43]
Carla
And then another one that probably. Maybe more bitcoiners know, like Eric Kaysen, but for, again, it was like, it's an episode that's not explicitly about bitcoin. Like, it's, again, more. I guess I'm partial to the episodes a lot of times that are digging into, like, the nature of the state and the beast.
- [115:06]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [115:07]
Carla
Versus just talking about bitcoin. But that's another one that I think is honestly probably difficult for some people to listen to because Eric will just kind of, you know, very much challenge your worldview. But I think that people need that kind of thing and they need it. They need it really badly. Another one that was pretty early on is the Domus creator, Will Kassarin. Yeah, we had. We both had a few drinks during that episode, and it was an enjoyable one.
- [115:38]
Away Slice
That's awesome. Okay.
- [115:39]
Carla
Yeah.
- [115:39]
Away Slice
All right.
- [115:40]
Carla
I hope that answers the question.
- [115:41]
Away Slice
No. Yeah, it definitely does. I'm going to go back and listen to them. I know and love Eric, though. Same thing as with you. I have hung out with him, but I've never had, like, quality time with it with Eric Case, and love that guy. He's an awesome guy.
- [115:56]
Carla
You know what?
- [115:57]
Walker
Maybe.
- [115:58]
Carla
Maybe he can third wheel the date. You know, I'll allow it. We'll be a tricycle. At PUBG.
- [116:05]
Away Slice
Yeah, it's like that. Like that meme with. With Dr. Ken and he's got a sombrero on and he says, I'll allow it. You know the name.
- [116:15]
Carla
Yep, I know. I know exactly what you're talking about, Ben. Well, thanks so much. You know, I usually. I ask people at the end of this, like, where do you want to send people? Because I'll link your. Link your Noster and I'll link your. Your ex. Do you want me to link the beat? Don't link your ex. Okay.
- [116:32]
Away Slice
I will only link your Noster. You can only. You can only find me on no Stir. I mean, I'm on X, but like, just don't link it. We gotta push no Stir.
- [116:42]
Carla
Amen. And you know, for everyone who joined here in the live stream today, for Noster only, thanks for being here.
- [116:47]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [116:48]
Carla
Do you want me to link the Beefsteak website? Website as well or you want to let people find it?
- [116:52]
Away Slice
It doesn't. It doesn't help anybody. It just gives them another way to pester me.
- [116:58]
Carla
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Well, man, I've got to say, this was.
- [117:02]
Away Slice
Walker.
- [117:02]
Carla
Hey, it was a treat having you.
- [117:04]
Away Slice
It was awesome to talk to you. I look forward to doing it in person. This was really great.
- [117:09]
Carla
Me too. We're going to make this happen sooner rather than later, I hope.
- [117:14]
Away Slice
Yeah.
- [117:22]
Walker
And that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast. If you are a bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast, head.
- [117:32]
Carla
To bitcoin podcast.net sponsor or send an email to hello Bitcoin podcast.net.
- [117:39]
Walker
If you are enjoying the Bitcoin podcast.
- [117:42]
Carla
And find it valuable, give it a boost on Fountain. A five star review wherever you're listening. Or better yet, share this show with.
- [117:49]
Walker
Your network so more people can learn about bitcoin.
- [117:51]
Carla
Or don't. Bitcoin does. Doesn't care, but I sure do appreciate it.
- [117:55]
Walker
You can grab links in the show notes to watch or list this show.
- [117:58]
Carla
Wherever you get your podcasts. Or go to bitcoin podcast.net podcast and you'll also find the links to follow.
- [118:04]
Walker
Me and the show on Noster and on X. Bitcoin is scarce. There will only ever be 21 million. But Bitcoin podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to the bitcoin podcast.
- [118:19]
Carla
Until next time, stay free.