Loading summary
Transcript46 lines
- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the Bitcoin Treasuries podcast. I'm Tim Kotsman. I'm here in the New York studio with Mehdi Azzodi, President and CEO of Belgravia Hartford. Mehdi, thanks for being here.
- [00:12]
B
Good to see you again. Tim.
- [00:13]
A
Have you always been a fan of the Rolling Stones?
- [00:16]
B
I have. I actually have.
- [00:18]
A
It's not just. It's not just a random hat.
- [00:20]
B
No, I've. I've always loved them. I've always liked them. Mick Jagger. Yeah. How could you not.
- [00:28]
A
Yeah, he's still going.
- [00:29]
B
He's still going. I mean, how could you not love the guy?
- [00:32]
A
Yeah. I think that's the end of the interview. We covered everything.
- [00:35]
B
Yes. If you get it. If people know what we're talking about, that's it. You love them, you get them. That's it. We're aligned. We're Satan. That's it.
- [00:43]
A
Yeah. You were here for the first time a year ago, and that was not at the bottom of the bear market. We're just missing, you know, this conversation. Today is missing the 58K gang by maybe a few days.
- [00:56]
B
It was July 17, 2025. It was the day we closed our equity finance and we announced our convertible debenture. And I remember sitting in the studio and it was at the top of the market. It was at the top of our share price at that time. And, you know, that was when bitcoin was around 117, 118. It was in the teens. I remember that. 100 teens. We sat here, we discussed the plan, we discussed what we're doing, what it's all about. So it was. Yeah, it was two weeks ago. Fifty. Fifty weeks ago.
- [01:27]
A
Okay.
- [01:27]
B
Yeah.
- [01:28]
A
And what. What happened since then?
- [01:30]
B
Great question.
- [01:32]
A
That's a broad question.
- [01:33]
B
I got more white hair. Summer thinning. So, you know, from a perspective of what Belgravia is and what Belgravia was and where we're going to be, it's. It's a threefold question. Number one is, you know, we've always been a holding company that had diversified assets. And this goes back to my tenure with the company since 2013, you know, chaperoning the company through some really dark times and tough times and some really abundant and great times. And that's the swings of, you know, taking aggressive risks. We exited essentially from all assets and 100% into Bitcoin. And that was something that we essentially did in 2017, which a lot of people don't know about. I mean, you and I were talking about this, you know, several times in 2017. We did make the shift to becoming a crypto investor as a public company. And we got valuations that went over 100 million bucks Canadian just on that concept. In 2017, we executed financings, we deployed money to miners at the time. Unfortunately, some of those companies just didn't execute their game plan. But if you made a lot of money on other investments, then due to, you know, so many reasons, regulatory compliance, market risks, if you just decide to buy common equities. So when we look back and saying how we've done this is owning crypto and owning bitcoin was something in our DNA. We just never did it aggressively until last year where we recognize it's the most liquid asset, it's the most powerful asset. And of course the volatility in the last year has been beyond challenging. But it never, never took us away from our belief system and it never took off, took us away from understanding that this is going to be our benchmark. So even when the market really corrected, we benefited by adopting the Bitcoin Standard Act. And what I mean by that is when we took on the convertible debt, we had a $5 million USD convertible debt and 1 1/2 million dollar line of credit. Part of our agreement, part of the negotiations that I did was that we can actually return the funds in bitcoin, not in, not in fiat. And the market didn't understand this. So when bitcoin started to go down and depreciate, we have a very high cost of borrowing. A lot of public companies do. I see the Canadian micro caps, they own a lot of bitcoin. Their carrying cost is about know very significant amount of money. Part of our negotiations was that I would just return to bitcoin and not take on the debt and not take on the loss. So when we repaid back our convertible and our line of credit, we didn't actually lose any money. We paid back the bitcoin. That was a big win for us, that, that saved us millions of dollars. And you know, I wasn't out there, you know, cheerleading what we did, but I know in our balance sheet and I know inside that that's what we did. So I big win for us. And that was a massive win just having the Bitcoin Standard act applied to our loans. The second part was it, you know, ignited the company. We were able to seek financing. The stock was liquid, of course, it was very volatile. It was very rapid. It just shot up. You know, a lot of, a lot of turmoil comes with it. You know, shareholders, advisors, people around. There's just a lot happening. So you got to manage essentially all the noise. And you know, we've talked about this. You know, volatility brings vitality. So having that kind of volatility enabled us to have that kind of liquidity and being the game that we are in, which leads us to where we are right now, what we're doing, the assets, we're focusing on the refocus, the Belgravia 2.0 of going back into Bitcoin. So I came here, I sat with you at the top of the market. You know, I think Belgravia was trading at 65 cents Canadian when we sat here on that day and now we're at two, two and a half cents Canadian. So I sat with you at the top and I'm coming here with you at the bottom of the market. So there's gotta be a middle ground here. And that's what we'll talk about today.
- [05:57]
A
Can you talk about the allocations from an investment standpoint as a public issuer that Belgravia has currently.
- [06:06]
B
Yeah. So you know, if you were 100% Bitcoin for the better part of last year and going into this year and the shift is we got to diversify. So part of our diversification from a micro cap company is we took some money and actually bought BitX, which is the times, you know, it's the leveraged Bitcoin etf. And I believe in it. I believe that when Bitcoin does soar back, you want to have that extra leverage. The second part is we bought into a, another public company and you know, they're getting their head around into various leverage products and structured products in the Bitcoin space. Delfox, they'll get it around. So we got a big position there. We're getting close to looking at option plays in MicroStrategy. One of our, our advisors, you know, they're doing it personally. We're looking at how to implement that long term where we're actually owning option calls, we're actually owning calls on MicroStrategy. You know, this is how much we believe in it. We haven't pulled the plug yet, but that'll be part of our diversification. So as it stands as a company right now, There's Bitcoin, the ETF's public company holding, essentially call it another diversified treasury stock. And looking at call options. I mean these are very aggressive positions. You know, in our disclaimers, in our press release, we be advised we're a high risk company. Our investments are high risks. You will be exposed to volatility and potential losses. So, you know, we're not a blue chip company. We're not saying, you know, it's not a retirement fund. This is very aggressive and calculated aggression. But there's still risks, a lot of risk that goes with it. And then secondly, we've gotten into acquiring, you know, people that work with us to put together a company internally. So the acquired brains that we've brought in have built an internal operating company. Gravitio. This is our own operating company. It's in the space that it's, it will become very big and we have the manpower and the woman power behind us to put this together. Gravitio AI. I mean it's, it's, the apps are available. There's, we're pushing 5,000 organic users right now, over 4,000, close to 5,000. I mean, the prediction market is massive. Having that intelligence internally for a company of our size will only help us. And we're in a multiple growth stage right now. We're in the AI space with this project that we didn't talk about until it got mature. We're going to reshift and refocus aggressively on buying bitcoin again. It's just we got to get around the financing metrics with the company. And of course, the company does have passive assets, are royalty in the mining space that we still have, that we're working on. So for a micro cap company where our share price has been hit so hard, we're still active, we're fluid, we've maintained our investments and we still have fees to pay, regulatory fees, license, you know, exchange fees, audit fees. There's people around the company, lawyers, advisors. So there's a lot of moving parts. And operating a micro cap company is like driving an 18 wheeler and you're going through rugged terrain.
- [09:38]
A
Gravideo, how did you come across the management team that is building that platform?
- [09:44]
B
Yeah, so there are a group of a few PhDs, they're all telecom experts, you know, tech experts, AI experts are all shareholders. So they, so this is the power of bitcoin. They were all shareholders of the company because they were investing in, in Belgravia back in the day. And they were the ones who put it together saying, you know, you got to actually push the bitcoin agenda. You got to get into the tech space, you got to get into the AI space. So, you know, these were just, these are people who put in their money in the company and then became advisors, directors of the board. And they're the ones who said, look, we're going to build this for Belgravia because we're shareholders, we're believers. We spent better part of two years working with these guys. And gal Ava, she's on our board, very smart lady, putting it together and saying, look, what are they doing? What wins have they had in the past? So it's a loyal friendship, it's an understanding of partnership and understanding that, you know, they have the pedigree and DNA that have built stuff in the past that's worked. So it came together very organically.
- [10:55]
A
Can you run us through where Belgravia is listed? Because I think it's easily kind of skipped over or lost on people exactly where it's listed. And maybe the advantages of being in more than one jurisdiction from a listing perspective.
- [11:12]
B
I mean, look for, for a two and a half, $3 million micro cap company in Canada, you know, we have the pillars of a much larger company. So we're listed on the OTC qb, which a lot of juniors are not. And we are. I mean, there's a, there's a cost to get there, a qualification for listed on the cse, the Canadian Stock Exchange. And we also have a ticker on Frankfurt, the fra. So those are three exchanges. We're also looking at, you know, expanding into the Middle East. You know, I've got being a member of FII with a Saudi initiative, understanding the push from Wall street into Saudi Arabia and Dubai. It's something that I'm a little bullish on, a lot bullish on. So we're looking at expansion there because there's a whole breed of capital that you haven't even tapped into.
- [12:05]
A
Where do you think we are? Are we in the first inning, so to speak, still with Bitcoin treasury companies. And how are you thinking of Gravideo? I'm just reminded of a bitcoin treasury company has the balance sheet that includes bitcoin or is primarily bitcoin. But I don't think we've really seen a bitcoin treasury company that's also a growth company. Maybe if SpaceX had 100% of their balance sheet in Bitcoin instead of 6%, you could call SpaceX a Bitcoin treasury company, company with a growth engine for all the obvious reasons. But all of the zombie companies or companies that have come in and adopted bitcoin, they've turned lemons into lemonade with rock dividends, return of capital. All of these ways of making a largely not profitable operating business a, a benefit and an advantage from different perspectives, with different products that they've launched. So how do you, yeah, maybe think about, like, is Gravito the opportunity to have a growth engine on the operating side of the business? Or how do you kind of think through that?
- [13:33]
B
Yeah, look, that's the most important question, right? You know, I remember last year, you know, there was a very, there's a very divided camp. You either own 100% bitcoin, raise money, buy bitcoin and nothing else, or you have a business that has revenues. The revenues go to buy bitcoin, you have more bitcoin to balance sheet, your stock's more liquid. I remember I was at a conference in Montreal and there was a fella talking and he basically, you know, I pick up sound bites. I don't know, I mean, like, you know, you could hear a thousand conversations and one sticks out, remember what the guy looked like, don't remember his name. And he basically said, you got to use your liquidity and you got to use owning Bitcoin to buy other assets. And that's, that's what sticked with me. The second part, and this is a mistake that I made, was you got to always be in the market raising money, whether it's an atm, whether it's me selling stock, putting money back in as equity or debt. The public market gives you liquidity. So the growth engine of Graviti is one aspect, and I do believe you do need that operating company for a number of reasons. One, you do need the growth of potentially having an asset you can sell privately or publicly. Two, you need a company that's building something that is in the atmosphere where the market can gravitate to, essentially. And the third part is by just owning Bitcoin, you're going to get lost because there's other companies that own it. Now when the cycle comes back and the market moves up, yes, there'll be trades and valuations could be up and down the shorts and the longs to get covered. But from our perspective, a micro cap company, right now we have to differentiate. The positive for us is we're debt free. You know, there's debt on the company, but it's secured debt that I've, you know, loaned the company money that I'll convert into equity. Essentially, we've got rid of toxic debt, meaning, you know, we don't, we don't have the $120 bitcoin, $120,000 bitcoin, carrying it at 60,000. And so we were, we benefited by getting out of the standard act. Owning Gravideo is Very important for us because once that asset becomes more mature, we have our own users. We have about 5,000 users, roughly. Call it. It's not a lot. I mean, obviously we're in the atmosphere of companies having millions and millions and billions of users. But as we grow, that ADA becomes a marketing channel. We believe we're going to get that number significantly higher in the second half of this year. We have a lot of people we're working with, but really the prediction market and that, that, that industry, the more users you have, the stronger that becomes. Right now we're seeing the strength of it. We're seeing in the sport predictions, even in the Bitcoin predictions, you know, it's accurately predicted a lot, you know, over 65%. Obviously they're not verified, it's not audited, you know, so we're very cautious in how we, you know, market and discuss it. But it's such a strong asset that we own that we're going to use that to monetize our investments. How to trade, work with other public companies that potentially could benefit from it, or JV with some, some bigger names out there. And then the market just doesn't care. It's too early. You know, money's flowing really to the top of the food chain right on the bottom right now. But for risk takers, intelligent investors, you know, they look at the stock chart, they look at the bottom and they're like, you know, there's opportunities here. People were buying our stock, you know, in the teens, 20s and 30s, and nobody was touching it when it was under a nickel. And right now that cycle will restart again. It always has. I mean, in my, you know, 20 some odd years of being in capital markets, you know, when stocks are cheap, you can't pay people to buy your stock and, you know, they run away. And when times are good, everyone's buying it like it's going to the moon. So I've seen the cycle play out a hundred times. Gravideo gives us an extra angle that a lot of treasury companies don't have. The intelligence, the growth story, and actually having an asset, a tangible asset that we can leverage and sell potentially.
- [18:01]
A
I was looking up a few things to try to frame AI specifically and where we are in the cycle. So McKinsey recently reported that nearly 90% of business organizations are using AI in at least one business function, but only a fraction of them have truly scaled AI across their business organization. If we're still early in that enterprise aspect of AI, how early do you think we are in what we can call prediction intelligence and prediction markets and most transformative technologies. If we think of it as beginning as infrastructure before they go mainstream, are we essentially maybe in the Internet circa 1995 stage for prediction intelligence? I mean, I'm reminded of many people saying we're in 1997 or somewhere in the late 90s, referring to Bitcoin over the past five or 10 years. And it's interesting to me that Bitcoin still seems to not be a mainstream conversation with all of the ETFs, all of the corporations. What are your thoughts on where we are when it comes to the enterprise aspect of AI and prediction markets?
- [19:43]
B
So I'll speak from Belgravia and personally, because I can't speak for anybody else from a Belgravia perspective. Obviously AI is, I can't live without it. I mean, you know, the time you spend, even just from accounting, taxes, everything, you know, you just, you rely on it because it's giving you the platform, the frame to then talk professionally on the next level. Right? I mean, everything. Eventually, you know, accountants are going to become, you know, tough, a tough job because it's like you don't need them eventually because the computer is going to do the job much better for you. You know, you put an Excel sheet into, you know, your AI platform and it's going to do a better job than somebody manually sitting there. If companies don't adopt to having their own internal AI platform for their own business, they will be left behind. I mean, you look at what Uber did to the taxi industry, you know, those, you know, the licenses were worth so much in various cities. I know Toronto, for example, you know, cab license was worth like half a million bucks and it was considered a very good investment. Now you can't get rid of them. If companies, especially small micro cap companies that want to be relevant, want to raise money, want to grow, they need to have an engine, a product, an adoption and adaptation of an asset. That's different than just buying something and developing something. Like you need to be, you need to be different, you need to be smarter. So, yeah, if you're not linked in the AI circle that's intelligent, resourceful, you will be left behind. You know, even in traditional, you know, hospitals, you know, mining businesses or oil and gas, they're all using AI for so many different purposes. You know, me looking at it, saying I can't live personally without it. And if I personally can't live without it and the company can't live without it, unlike the experts and the people that are building These incredible platforms around the world, they're so ahead of the game that the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet. We look at the age category of 45 to 60, you know, some get it, some don't. Above it, most don't get it. The younger generation, they get it. But I mean, what are they using it for? They're using it for, you know, TikTok, personal stuff, shopping, asking questions. I mean the average 20 year old and teenagers, you know, they're using AI as their relationship experts, they're asking questions about their prescriptions and so on. So I mean, that's the general sense, but from a public company perspective, we're in a growth stage, we definitely need it. And there will be an explosion, there will be a, another catalyst that sends these stock into another valuation frenzy. There will be a, probably a global adoption by some countries and it'll be like, you know, you look at India, you look at these countries with billions of people, you know, they got to feed people, transport people, move people. You know, they're, you know, villages are becoming towns, towns are becoming cities. They're all going to use vast AI and vast technology. So from us, a micro cap company, how do we fit in? How do we profit from it? You know, I'm known to throw a lot of darts out there, so this is a big one for us and, and this and bitcoin combined and surviving this drought. Yeah, we'll be good.
- [23:42]
A
What do you think about the, I'll call it narrative now that the SpaceX IPO and some of these other IPOs that were going to come to market this year, 2026 and now some of them, some of the bigger ones look like they've been pushed to 2027, that, that has caused a capital rotation out of bitcoin and out of everything into these financings. Not just IPOs but big financings, big IPOs and they've all been, you know, around the themes of, well, SpaceX AI, SpaceX robotics, all of these technology themes. Do you think there's, do you subscribe to that? Is there validity to. There's money coming out of everything into the SpaceX IPO and this capital rotation will come back around to bitcoin? Do you think it's a hundred different things where you can't just, I mean you can try to create a narrative wherever you want, but is it, is it more nuanced than that? And from a business perspective, how do you think of everything? Tom Lee has recently said bitcoin is downstream from AI Meaning it's not necessarily one or the other. How do you kind of think through all of that? And is there a wrong answer and a right answer? Are some of these narratives a little far fetched or is like, yeah, there's capital rotation and arbitrage and front running of everybody, front running everyone else all the time, as Jeff Walton says. Yeah, there's a lot there.
- [25:32]
B
So, I mean, bitcoin liquidity obviously created the SpaceX funding. I mean, it's well known. I mean, money just went from one investment to another and it was bitcoin's liquidity that enabled so many investors to rotate that money out. Yeah, it's common theme. I mean, and money's moving upwards. I mean, that's just the way it is, right? I mean, company like SpaceX will attract that larger capital because it's, there's just room in it. So we're going to see a lot of that and you know, we're just going to see everything keep going upstream, upstream, upstream. And then, you know, for companies in the smaller, at smaller space, smaller market caps, they got to be so innovative and so intelligent that they could get that, you know, the cookie crumbles. I can't speak intelligently to any more than that because obviously I'm not an expert. I don't know where the capital flow came from. But understanding that people did rotate out of bitcoin to Space X, will they do it again? Yeah, history always repeats itself. I mean, you know, SpaceX will have its peaks and troughs and it'll have its ups and downs and, and you know, once bitcoin starts to reignite, you'll see a massive flow from retail. You'll see the second coming of the treasury companies. And the treasury companies will trade as a derivative. I've always said that they'll trade as a derivative.
- [27:02]
A
What does that mean?
- [27:03]
B
So what I really believe it means is companies that own a lot of bitcoin on their balance sheet, so I know a few Canadian companies, they own a bunch of bitcoin, they've, they've bought them on debt. And like I look at Matador, great company, you know, they've, they've had a lot of bitcoin, they bought a lot on leverage. So when bitcoin goes down, their stock got hammered so hard again. But the moment that turns around, companies like those, they will bounce back harder, they will come back stronger. So then, then you look at it, it's not really you're, you're a derivative, you're just, it's, you know, Debt, equity, commodity price.
- [27:44]
A
It's amplified. Bitcoin.
- [27:45]
B
Exactly. That's all it is. And there will be, there will be more. When this next run comes, there will be more money in the universe. There'll be more capital to be deployed, there's more risk capital. People want the 2, 3, 10x and they want it faster. So we'll see more spikes, more volatility, more shorts, more longs. And then companies like us, we become the bitcoin trade. You become a derivative. That's why it's important to maximize raising equity when the stock goes. Having a business like vto, having a business, a back end business where you could take the money, you buy bitcoin as much as you can at the time, put it back into an operating company, let that develop. I mean, I look back, I think it was 2020 and Tesla kept, you know, the shorts on Tesla kept growing and kept growing and the stocks like, how could it go any higher? People just didn't know he was stacking up bitcoin. And bitcoin's making its moves and everybody who short a Tesla got smacked pretty hard. But he had bitcoin in a, I mean that is the original treasury company in my opinion. You know, he is the smartest guy alive, he's the richest guy alive. So he knew what he was doing.
- [28:58]
A
Let's move to the advantages of a micro cap. Is that a term of endearment? Is that an accurate term? What, what is the positive of, of being more maybe nimble in the market and being able to, Is that the reality of, of a smaller company is you can, you can move in a little, have more flexibility, be more nimble, have, you know, what is, what are the advantages of being a micro cap? Because we all know the advantages of being one of the huge, almost monopolies where you just have so much liquidity and ability to move in the market and just go out and do these huge financings.
- [29:55]
B
So you know, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. So as a micro cap, when times are good, you know, your shareholders benefit and you know, they got 10, 20, 30x at times, you know, stock goes 2, 3, 5, 20, 30, 40. But it moves fast and people are emotional, they don't always sell. And as an insider, you know, you're scrutinized if you sell. And, and I got to be very cognizant how to do that better. You know, I've watched my stock over a decade go up and down without really monetizing it. But if you sell and you Put it back in the company, you're doing something good. I mean it's, it's exactly. Take Saylor's playbook, right? You know, sell your kidney, don't sell your bitcoin, use the public markets, refund the company debt, equity, whatever it is, keep putting money back in. So as a micro cap, shareholders are more engaged with you for pros. There's pros and cons today, right? Because you have intelligent, sophisticated, wealthy shareholders who understand the long game. They could hold something for 5, 10 years and this is 1% of their, you know, half a billion dollar portfolio, are very wealthy investors. I mean, for a company of our size, I think you got four billionaires, a shareholder. So they're sophisticated, they understand. But then you got a lot of emotional shareholders and I relate to that, I understand that. So you got to deal with their expectations, but in a way where they could sell and leave and so on. But from a virtual growth story, from an actual, a micro cap company, as you got to look at management, has a person been around a long time? I've been with this company since 2013. It restructured, took over in 2016, got into the crypto, essentially space and buying farmers and miners in 2017, got heavy into it last year. So it's a track record. You know, I've made mistakes, I've blown things up. I've had bad investments, but I've also had great investments. I've assured this thing cleanly. You know, I look at a lot of micro cap companies. Managements have come in, done some awful things. Companies have gone delisted, missed audits, none of that. I mean, you got to look at the track record of a company, you know, who the legal teams are, who do people are behind it. The disadvantage of owning Micro Caps is there's a lot of funny business that happens and they're not accountable. I treat Belgravia like it's a blue chip company. I mean, if I've told you about the history of the name and I, there's a lot with it. So when somebody ushers this thing like it's, it's, it is. I mean, this is my life, this is my, it's, it's what I do. So I know I'm going to create a massive win one day. I don't know when, you know, bitcoin was the ticket to get us there. It just, I couldn't control the market. I couldn't control. I was trading 40 times M nav and the market was going to collapse. There was a lot of Noise in the X community. If that noise wasn't there, I probably would have sold all the bitcoin last year. But I had to be respectful that the money we raised from our shareholders and debt holders was to go into bitcoin. I could have probably looked the other way and done what I believe was right. But you got to honor what you say in life. So holding a $2 million micro cap stock is a risk, but if you look at it from a decade or two decade trajectory, if they've made it work a few times, they'll make it work again. No promotion, no fluff, no pump. We don't do any of that. We just go by the facts and when the market wave comes back where we benefit from it, I can't tell people what to do, but it's always good for someone to own a very small piece of one of these companies because they will get it right. If management is positioned, well, driven enough, wants to build something, they will build something. And I've seen it happen a lot in Canada. I've seen it happen in tech space, health care. Obviously, you know, Canada's big in the mining sector, so I've seen these people do it. And you know, there's a lot of incredible companies in the US that were basically an idea and nothing, just private companies, people funded them in their basements and you know, a decade later they went public and massive IPOs and so on. Now everything's public, so everything's scrutinized. Everybody knows how much you own, how much you make, what you spent, what you bought. That scrutiny keeps you, keeps you reliable, it keeps you honest, it keeps you accountable to your people.
- [34:46]
A
We've seen a few companies announce over the past few months they are liquidating, selling all of their bitcoin. There's other companies, specifically some mining companies, bitcoin mining companies, that maybe you could put them in the category of opportunistic. They have not come out and said, we are going to accumulate bitcoin and never sell it. So they might buy bitcoin, they might sell bitcoin. Then you have the microstrategies of the world now strategy that they've committed to always being a net buyer of bitcoin and accumulating bitcoin. I'm trying to put myself, as you're talking, in the seat of a listener. Where is Belgravia in that? Is Belgravia opportunistic? You might buy, you might sell, you might sell all the bitcoin. Are you committing to accumulate bitcoin over time? Like what can you commit to as the CEO of Belgravia as far as your bitcoin strategy?
- [35:58]
B
Yeah. So I'll speak to the lesson that I learned in the last 12 months and the greatest lesson was you use your public shares, whether it's me personally or other shareholders or ATM or whatever, just keep raising money and buying bitcoin. The, the error and the fumble that I think we made and a bunch of other treasury companies made, the smaller ones at least is we got married to our share price going down. But you still have a liquid share price. When the stock went, you know, 2 to 60 and 60 down to 2, it still traded millions of shares every day. I think he had to put on a just, just don't care about the share price, do whatever it takes, raise as much money, create equity inside the company. We did that to some extent, but not fully. So for now, even if, even what does right now, if we announce ever buying more bitcoin, even at this valuation, because bitcoin so depressed and price right now and we don't know, it could go lower, it could go higher, I don't know. But there will be a market sentiment, I believe in Belgravia. If we say we're going to raise money even at these valuations to buy bitcoin, that's something the board, myself, advisors, you know, counsel from yourself. We're going to look and saying, look, if you dilute at the bottom of the valuation to buy bitcoin, will that help the stock? I think it will. And then it puts you back on the map that as a micro cap, you're always going to hold bitcoin. You will diversify to other assets. And because we're not 100 million or a billion dollar company, no one's going to be scrutinizing and saying, well you change your approach or you change your path. I mean if MicroStrategy or some of the top five players suddenly did that, yeah, that's a big, that's a big move. But from a company of our size, we have to always be reinventing. We have to find the next best asset. You know, people say, you know, well you're flip flopping, you're going from one sector to another, but that's what it is. You have to do it until you find a winner. So we've zoned in. Right now the zone in is bitcoin gravitio which is in the prediction AI space that we believe this is, this is a core business, a royalty business. We're not going to go buy you know, Solana or this and that, you know, all great coins, whatever. Good, bad, I don't care. But Bitcoin, create our own internal product, focus on other assets that we have and then in the end, any extra money that comes in, shift back to Bitcoin. In the last 12 months, it's like we kind of lived, you know, four cycles in one. You know, it was a year passed, but it seemed more like a four or five year, you know, cycle inside the company. The ups, the downs, the turmoil. Now it's take the emotions out. Understand that you got to build nav, you got to build equity. You got to keep putting assets in the company. And Bitcoin is the only tool that enables that liquidity. We're all out of favor right now. There's a lot of skepticism, there's a lot of. I don't say negativity. I mean, people have been hit hard. I mean, leverage, we were the luckiest. Belgravia was absolutely the luckiest leverage holder in my opinion out there because we didn't take a penny loss, you know, and that was a good agreement our lawyer put together where we just, we didn't take a loss on the leverage Bitcoin, obviously, we took a loss on the equity Bitcoin. So from a company of our size, it was a great learning experience. Very expensive for me and our shareholders personally, but we learned how to do 2.0 better. And there's always another cycle, there's always another run. Just we have to get better position for that run. I think we're there. It's the fine tuning and the last pieces right now.
- [40:15]
A
Where's the best place for people to reach out to you? Follow Belgravia and yeah, find you online.
- [40:24]
B
You know, they could email me. My email's out there. I mean, I have a Twitter space X page. I should be more active on it. I haven't been, but you know, X is great. You could put that up there. My email a. You know, I'm easy to get a hold of. I mean, when people message me, I'm accessible. Last year I had a. I was, I was addressing a lot of shareholders who. And I address every shareholder personally as much as I can. And then I realized my allocation of time was going to investors who I respect. If someone has a hundred dollars or a hundred thousand or a million, it's their money. But I'm cognizant now. And you know, when people reach out, there's a lot of hidden agendas at times. But email, phone, X, those are the three Best ways. And I welcome any conversation, opinions, ideas, criticism for an open book.
- [41:24]
A
Bitcoin AI, prediction markets. It sounds like we're still early.
- [41:32]
B
We're early, we're early. We got to be aggressive. We got to make bigger moves. You know, you got to keep. You got to keep flowing. I think you got. Everybody got a little stagnant in the last quarter. And, you know, it's hard when people get hit so hard. You know, when markets completely tumble, people go into survival mode. But the winners, you know, Elon Musk was never in survival. He was always in growth mode. You know, Saylor talks about he went down 99%, but he was still in growth mode. And it's just a psychological mindset, right? Yes. You had 10 million in your bank account. Now it's half a million. Just be grateful it's there. Just build in and move again. So, you know, I'm taking a lot of emotions out. It's mathematical equation. The stocks are 2 cents. What can you do? If the stocks are 10 cents, what can you do? You know, part of being in this industry is we look at, you know, who bought what, it's expectations. No, no, it's just a mathematical equation of getting the company from A to B, B to C, and so on. And that's my focus now. It's just looking at things very rationally without trying to figure out what's the market going to do or so on. Execute. If you're right, you'll be rewarded. If you're wrong, you won't be rewarded.
- [42:48]
A
Mehdi, thanks for your time. Appreciate you joining us here in New York in the studio.
- [42:52]
B
Thanks, Tim. So we balanced it out top and the bottom of the cycle. We'll meet in the middle. Yeah,
- [43:01]
A
it'll be exciting to see where the market goes next, that's for sure. Thanks, Mehdi.
- [43:10]
B
Thanks, Tim.