← The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
Breaking Down the Debasement Trade with Evan Horowitz of Farmhouse
00:16:56
Loading summary
Transcript21 lines
- [00:00]
A
Tim, welcome back to the Bitcoin Treasuries podcast. I'm Tim Kotsman. I'm here with Evan Horowitz, the CEO at Farmhouse. Evan, thanks for joining us today.
- [00:08]
B
My pleasure. Tim, great to join you again.
- [00:12]
A
Can you give us a little snapshot of where Farmhouse is right now and what you mean by the debasement trade? You're talking about a bitcoin allocation, a gold allocation, and a lot going on geopolitically right now.
- [00:26]
B
Yeah, I mean the debasement is just a runaway train. And so where we're at right now is our infrastructure is live. We have a clean balance sheet in the public company. The foundation is there and the infrastructure is there. We have Bitgo as our institutional custody account provider, which is an insured account with continuity, succession plan, multisig cold storage, and it's also got board resolutions that are part of the administration of the account. So we've made the first test bitcoin allocation and there is some PAX G gold tokens going into the account next. You can follow that at Debasement AI we've put up a live dashboard. You can also track the price of bitcoin and gold in one place.
- [01:17]
A
There's.
- [01:18]
B
Yeah, conveniently. And so, yeah, I mean we didn't have on our dance card a war with Iran. Sort of like adding trillions to the currency expansion. Nonetheless, the currency is going to expand either way with or without these wars. You know, whether it's for money velocity or whether it's for stimulating the economy, buying back debt, whatever the reasons are, the M2 money supply continues to expand. It's been doing this for a very long time. If you follow Ray Dalio or others, you're already aware of this. But it's a well known fact the M2 money supply is expanding. And as it happens, your purchasing power goes down. And so the Farmhouse anti debasement basket is a way to get off of the dollar system and get with an anti debasement system where the one basket has two scarce assets, Bitcoin and gold. Also when you're talking about gold. Right. So there's sort of some key differences between our basket and say like a microstrategy. Microstrategy's, you know, bitcoin focused. Then you look at ETFs, well, they're passive. We're an actively managed anti debasement basket. With bitcoin and gold. Gold is a great reserve asset. So for collateralization, lower volatility, it's, you know, it's going to be a Helpful ballast in our basket. And so obviously for us, bitcoin is sort of the horse that's the runaway horse, it's the end state, it's the compounding asset on the balance sheet. And bitcoin is that nice stable layer.
- [03:07]
A
Can you walk us through what you mean when you say actively manage? Because it's 70% bitcoin, 30% gold, but above and beyond that, is this a amplified Bitcoin, but in this case amplified bitcoin and gold sort of financial engineering play or what exactly goes into the definition of actively managed for an investor looking at these projects?
- [03:34]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean we've created a new category, it's a anti debasement category. And so if you look at like paper trading, bitcoin and gold over the last few months and quarters, gold has outperformed bitcoin. And bitcoin had some irrational price dislocations at times, whether it was quantum FUD or, or other, you know, dips. So now imagine you have this 100% reserve asset of gold on your balance sheet and you have a price dislocation and you actively decide, well, this is an irrational price dislocation and 61,000 is an awesome price. So you know, we have a low volatility asset in gold. Let's just go on chain, collateralize a small amount of the gold and accumulate more bitcoin at that moment. So as a balance sheet driven company, as a financial actively managed company, we're able to make decisions like that, we're able to roll up assets onto the balance sheet that can contribute more bitcoin and gold over time. We can make strategic acquisitions and we can do things as actively managed balance sheet company that you really can't do as an ETF or as a bitcoin only company.
- [05:06]
A
Got it. And how do you think about the corporate public company equivalent of dollar cost averaging versus smash buying at the top, which some companies have kind of been accused of doing? Like, oh, we're very excited. And to be fair, as a bitcoiner and probably same with the gold bugs, I can speak for myself. There's been a lot of FOMO over the years of we're at the top, we're at the bottom of this volume. And so arguably the worst thing you can do is not be proactive and not try to do as much as you can to be in position for when one of these assets rips higher. On the other hand, you may have prospective investors saying you're an idiot, you bought the top and now you're just sitting there on your hands, not able to do anything. So how do you think through that as a hard money person and also a public company executive?
- [06:11]
B
Yeah, so it's a great question and we've been thinking about this question now. And so you want to have dry powder at all times. Like you know, having dry powder enables the company to take advantage of those price dislocation moments. And, and so we're not emotional, we're not trying to time the market. It just so happens, coincidentally, based on the timing that it took for us to prep the public company, get our institutional custody live, that the price of Bitcoin seems like a very attractive entry point today. So in our current discussions, and this is subject to change, but in our current planning, we're looking to sort of smash a slightly medium large buy right now. You know, as capital comes in, as we're able to access our $20 million equity line that's been just been activated as well. And as capital comes in in our seed round and subsequent rounds behind it and then we would like to be able to make like a weekly buy and that will enable us to DCA into Bitcoin over time. But the price right now is so attractive, it's like maybe smash a little bigger buy on the way in and continue with weekly buys. That being said, we are a anti debasement strategy. So sitting on US dollars is like just decaying on our balance sheet. Therefore deploying those dollars into bitcoin and gold makes sense for us. Another conversation here behind the scenes is instead of holding USD, what about holding STRC or SATA or other future digital credit opportunities? Those could be ways to also offset debasement. And so that's really what we're offering investors is a way to have that bitcoin and gold basket in one actively managed security.
- [08:14]
A
What have the conversations been like behind the scenes from a capital standpoint? Thinking about accessing the public markets, which is as Saylor has said, the most attractive and efficient way to really be able to engage with investors. From an ATM facility to how you think about converts, preferreds, short or evergreen sort of loans, lines of credit. Can you walk us through I guess just your view on how all of that, how you think through the stack, so to speak?
- [08:54]
B
Yeah, so we're coming at this from a very early entry point. So ATM is something we would look to use in the future. Strategically it doesn't really work for us today we're aligning with more long, long term permanent capital equity partners. Right now we do have the equity line in place and that investor is super bullish on the entire digital asset, treasury and anti debasement basket that we've developed. And so they're standing by, eager to have us choose to place the puts so early on. So I look at it as layers. Like in the first layer we're looking for long term equity investors that will look at this as a long term hold and that'll enable us to ramp up the company, ramp up accumulation into the bitgo account without sort of heavy selling pressure. So we saw with like some of the other Treasuries that they had pipes that unlocked or they had a de spac and it there was a lot of selling pressure and we view this as a long term venture and we're aligning with long term thinking investors and we've turned down a lot of short term capital. So just in the last few months I've turned down almost a million dollars of very short term capital. And it's not that easy to do that because capital is scarce and there is a lot of FUD out there right now and it is kind of a risk offish market, although I feel like sentiment is improving right now. But our conviction is super high and we're very lean and efficient. So you know, our plan is to layer in the capital starting with long term equity investors, then tap into our equity line then. We're already having institutional conversations right now with some incredible bitcoin focused institutions that like our anti debasement strategy and together we would like to then raise a larger institutional round behind the seed round that we have open currently. And we're looking to do all of that in short order as quickly as possible in order to take advantage of this great entry point that we have. And so all of it relies on keeping the balance sheet clean as we do that.
- [11:26]
A
How does the bitcoin and gold combination help you in these conversations? Because you have the sailors of the world, it's like be laser focused bitcoin only. So how does it in the real world actually opposite of what some might think actually help in these conversations both ways. Bitcoin to gold, Gold to bitcoin.
- [11:51]
B
Yeah, I have this dream of orange pilling the gold bugs and at the same time bitcoin. Maxis can recognize that gold was sort of the predecessor to bitcoin in a way as a store of value. Bitcoin has so many advantages over gold. But gold is already an acceptive store value and a reserve asset for banks and it's like 100% reserve asset. So as you look forward to the opportunity to do digital credit, the STRC or SATA like offering, imagine that you have gold on your balance sheet and not just bitcoin. That will enable you to do, maybe get a better credit rating and maybe to do innovative things because your gold is more of a reserve asset than bitcoin currently is. That being said, Bitcoin is the fastest horse. You know, the compounding, the potential for bitcoin to compound and deliver that, you know, incredible upside is still dominant in our basket, but the gold out smooths out that volatility and it gives us some advantages in the process as well as being the reserve asset.
- [13:17]
A
What would you say to gold bugs right now based on what gold has just done and where bitcoin is currently sitting?
- [13:25]
B
Gold bugs, you have a chance to take advantage of the asymmetric upside and the CAGR of bitcoin. This dip right now is irrational. It's dislocated. There's a finite supply of bitcoin and so your gold is the predecessor to bitcoin, only bitcoin is more portable. It's got a finite supply and AI agents are using it now as a currency and there's so many different ways for it to be non sovereign global store of value that it pairs really well and you have lower volatility with gold. But volatility is good. Volatility is a gift. So now that you have upside on your gold and things have gone really well, you can take some of those profits and now you can get a great entry point into bitcoin.
- [14:20]
A
The ticker is fmhs. Where else can people follow you? Reach out, learn more, all those good things.
- [14:30]
B
Yeah. So corporate website is Farmhouse tv. We have a dashboard live at Debasement AI. You can follow me at Evan Horowitz and you can follow the company at Farmhouse Inc. And then we've also turned the 420 Twitter into the debasement News account. So we're now tracking Debasement News on the 420Twitter and we'd be happy to hear from, from anybody who would like to align, you know, so lean in after you see the podcast and reach out. There's a way for investors to contact us on Farmhouse TV and my DMs are open as well.
- [15:12]
A
Awesome. Evan, thanks so much for joining us today.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, thanks, Tim. Great to be with you as always.
- [15:18]
A
There's a window right now where getting up to speed on AI still puts you ahead. That window won't stay open forever if you've been putting it off here's the easiest way to start. AI Help Desk is offering a free consultation for listeners of this podcast. You can get clear on what matters without wasting time going down the wrong path. Go to theai helpdesk.com that's the aihelpdesk.com and book your free consultation today. Hey everyone, quick heads up. If you're serious about Bitcoin and wanting to actually live it, not just talk about it, you've got to check out Camp Nakamoto. This is a bitcoin experience happening June 18th to the 21st in New Hampshire on a private island. Think Bitcoin. Real food, health, great people and zero noise. It's family friendly and tickets are almost gone. There's only about 50 tickets left. If you want to be around high signal bitcoiners and build real relationships, this is the place. Use my code KOTZ for 15% off and I'll see you there. Visit camp nakamoto.com Join Bitcoin Treasuries Media and the Smarter Web Company as we present the inaugural Bitcoin Treasury's Unconference UK on Friday, May 29th. Visit Bitcointreasuries Media for tickets to the Bitcoin Treasurys Unconference Ukraine.