← The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
Building Mexico's First Bitcoin Treasury Company with Jose Flores of Arcadia₿
00:38:24
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to the Bitcoin Treasuries podcast. I'm Tim Kotsman. I'm here with Jose Flores, the founder and CEO of Arcadia B, Mexico's first bitcoin treasury company. Jose, thanks for being here in the studio.
- [00:13]
B
Thanks for having me, Tim. It's a pleasure.
- [00:16]
A
Should we start at the beginning? What's some of your background? I know you started a bitcoin business, but whatever you'd like to share from your background kind of up through starting a bitcoin business, how did you find bitcoin and what was that for you?
- [00:34]
B
Yeah, I mean, I heard of bitcoin, like back in 2013, and I kind of like, I've always been a cyberpunk and I love cryptography and I was playing around with like Tor network and how that worked, but I really didn't understand the importance of bitcoin and I just kind of like use it as a transactional, you know, means. And then, you know, I went to school in here in the states, Texas A and M. I. I did a undergrad in economics. And that really kind of depressed me, you know, because I learned how the whole system worked and I was like, oh, my God.
- [01:09]
A
I go, this is not good.
- [01:11]
B
Like, what am I? Yeah. And, you know, it really depressed me in the sense that it's hard to explain because I come from. I'm the fourth generation of a family that has had a public company in Mexico. So it's been on for like 100 years. So I kind of feel that I was being privileged by this system. So it's hard because you see the effects on people in Mexico. But I was, you know, I was benefiting from that system. So it's very hard to explain the conflict inside myself. So, you know, I turned to alcohol, like heavy drinker for a while and then, you know, went to work for the with my dad. We were in construction and mining for a while and, you know, got very close to the corruption in government in Mexico. You can imagine how that is. And then, you know, I kind of wanted to get away from all that and I came here to New York. I did my master's in Colombia, and here is where I met my co founder and I dropped everything I was doing and I went all in bitcoin and I started right there and then because I was taking a math class and bitcoin came up again and I was like, what, you know, what is this doing here? And that's when I started doing more research. But I don't have an engineering background, so I was kind of limited, but then, you know, through literally pure chance, I met my co founder. So the story is very crazy. I had a neighbor, we used to cook together a lot, and he flew to Chicago for a conference, and he stayed in an Airbnb, and that Airbnb was owned by my current co founder. So they was just there chilling, and he was trying to. They were talking and I was like, what do you do for a living? My neighbor asking Juris. It's like, no, it's too hard. You won't understand. It's like, please tell me, what are you doing? So he told me, okay, I'm doing arbitrage using bitcoin. And the guy immediately got it. And he was like, oh, my God, nobody gets what I'm doing. How come you got it? It's like, oh, because I know a guy who's been talking to me about bitcoin. So they called me there, and it's like, you need to come. Next day. I flew to Chicago and everything started there. And he has, like, a very intense background in engineering, and he was able to explain bitcoin to me with apples. And from that point, like, I literally. I was doing my master's in construction management, and I just finished the program and I had job offers here in New York and everything. I was like, I'm gone. You know, I just went back to Mexico and started the bitcoin business.
- [04:00]
A
What was that experience like in building a bitcoin business? I have heard and experienced that. The reality that bitcoin, up to a certain point, other than kind of a trading, custody sort of platform, it doesn't need anybody. Now with corporates and Wall street and institutions and nation states coming in, there's probably more opportunity for fees and to create a business. But it's historically not been super easy to build a bitcoin business for sure.
- [04:35]
B
I mean, just imagine trying to get a bank account back in the day, you know, trying to say, hey, what do you do? I'm in bitcoin. It was. Shut the door.
- [04:42]
A
Yeah.
- [04:43]
B
So it was. It was tough, you know, and. But we. We really made good money on our first year because we were trading and we got, you know, we cut the 2017 bull run. So, you know, we bootstrapped the project between Yuri and myself, and we haven't raised since because we literally, we were lucky because we put in the money right before the bull run, and then, you know, bitcoin did like a 10x. So we were like, what now? What are we going to do?
- [05:14]
A
Yeah.
- [05:14]
B
And then we were not familiar with the cycles, you know, so we didn't know that then we're going to go in a bear market for four years. So, you know, when the spreads literally stopped because everyone was doing the same, so the market became very efficient and there were no arbitrage opportunities. We're just sitting on our hands and it's like, what are we going to do now? So we literally started orange peeling people and, you know, education and talking about bitcoin and a lot of friends were, okay, I want to buy bitcoin. Where do I buy it or help me buy it? So we started doing OTC, you know, WhatsApp groups and LTC. And that kind of started growing a lot. And we're like, you know, it's taking too much time too manual. So you was like, let's build something. So we build a very simple. Like we don't do trading, no limit orders, no leverage, nothing. It's just like market order. Like you deposit 5,000 pesos, we give you a quote and you get that amount of bitcoin and that's it, you know. So that was our first, you know, like real business. And it started growing from there then, you know, more education and from there we started doing like payment rails because like, how do people are going to use this? We need payment rails. And we built, you know, infrastructure so people can pay in bitcoin, but like, no one really does, you know. So I was like, oh, so what's next? So we were stuck for like four years just doing the OTC and kind of like brokerage thing. And then, you know, a lot of our clients that been with us for four years, you know, they're like, okay, now I'm sitting a lot in a lot of profit. Like I want to sell. I was like, no, dude, don't sell. So on that process, they were like, okay, give me another option. So that's when the lending business started coming along. I was like, okay, I'll lend you money and just give me the bitcoin as collateral. So we started doing OTC at first. Then, you know, it started growing. We saw a lot of demand and we build the system for that. And it's just kind of been growing, you know, organically. But that being said, you know, I think we were definitely lucky to have that, you know, first initial bull run that gave us kind of like a big stash to think long term, you know, and have a lot of Runway for us to just don't worry about the, you know, the burn rate or anything. Like that and we just chilled for four years and then the lending business really took off. And that's when we started, you know, seeing the market maturing and we were very excited. But then, you know, Biden came and, you know, regulation was really hard. A lot of banks didn't want to, like, open open accounts for us. And, you know, we start feeling the pressure, like, literally from, from institutions. We actually had like a big audit from the government, which is called the wif, Unidad Intelligence Financiera. So they came and that audit, our whole book. So it was a really stressful process. But thankfully we had a good compliance officer and we, you know, we were able to get through that. But then, you know, right now things are changing and, you know, it's. Thankfully, you know, humanity is very resilient. And I'm sure, you know, thankfully, the US as well, you know, it's leading the world in the right direction. So very happy for that because, you know, at the end of the day, whatever you guys do here in Mexico, we follow two, three years after. So in Mexico, like, literally there's a law that dictates how any financial institution can deal with crypto assets. But then the bank of Mexico kind of like stepped in and was like, no, because in the law, the way it works, they gave the faculty to the bank of Mexico to say, okay, out of all the cryptos, which ones are going to be able to participate in this law? And the bank of Mexico said, no one, like, no crypto, nothing. So it's like an oxymoron where you have the law, but then the guy who's supposed to say what cryptos are allowed to play? And they say, none of them. But my point is that the bank of Mexico can change that tomorrow. It's very easy for Mexico to start playing tomorrow, and I think the bank of Mexico will do it once they see the US Move along with the new regulation and have a clear picture of where we're going. I mean, once that happens, we're off to the races, man. Now we're going to be playing with the big boys, which is, you know, at the same time it's like mixed emotions, because that's very good for Bitcoin, but also for us small companies, if we're not ready, the big boys are going to come and just either absorb or just out compete anyone who's not ready for them. So what do you think? What do you think is going to happen when we have these big institutions coming to space? I think everything's going to change when it's changing now.
- [10:25]
A
Yeah. Reminds me of, say we're saying that the world is watching and will follow what the US Is doing from a regulatory and banking standpoint when it comes to adoption. What happened first? Did you see what MicroStrategy was doing five years ago? Or was it individual conversations that led you on the journey to even being open to the corporate side and the bitcoin treasury strategy? Because, you know, we've. We've talked a little bit about. You were not very open to it at first.
- [11:07]
B
Yeah, I mean, you know, I was very cyberpunk through my first, you know, eight years or whatever. You know, I didn't dox myself. I was like, very privacy oriented and I thought that was the way, you know, and. And over the years, you know, since Michael came to space, I was following him very closely, like what he was doing and the way he was speaking and what was developing. And, you know, I started becoming a huge fan. And, you know, even with. With my family, we. We bought some shares from. From mstr and, you know, we've been very happy. But then, you know, he started growing a lot. And once I saw that bitcoin concentration, I was like, oh, my God, I don't love that. And he doesn't do self custody or proof of reserve. So I was like, ah, you know, there was something there, but I was like, okay, it's just one guy. But then, you know, blackrock came to space. And then you have like, these. A lot of big players. And my first thought it was like, oh, my God, like, this is gonna. There's gonna be so much paper bitcoin out there doing naked shorting that they're just gonna control the price going forward. So as I very opposed to bitcoin treasuries. And the first time Boyd came, you know, he was teaching at the Egadi, which is kind of like the best business school in Latin America. So someone told me, you need to meet this guy. He's a bitcoiner. I was like, what? What? You know, I've been trying to get to universities for five years, and they were just shutting the door. Shutting the door because they're. They're so bureaucratic. Like, I didn't know that. And I was like, I can teach, you know, for free. I have. These are the courses. I have the material I'll like, I'll pay for everything, and I'll teach it myself. But they were like, no, you're not a professor. You cannot teach here. But then I. I met Boyd. So we. We got together and he was the first guy to propose like, hey, what, what do you think about doing a Treasury company here in Mexico? And my initial reaction was no, you know, I would never do it. And even for someone else I don't think the market is there. But then, you know, the conference in Vegas happened and I really saw that there was demand in Mexico for this. I met some other people and at first I was hesitant, but then Boyd really provided really good arguments I against, you know, or in favor of treasury companies, I would say. And the best argument was like, you know, we cyberpunks are all about orange peeling people, you know, and giving them sovereignty and teach them how to use bitcoin. But I was like, I've been at it for 10 years and I haven't been able to convince even one of my like and I don't know, my group of friends is like 10, 15 people from like high school and there's a lot of guys that I haven't managed to convince, you know, convinced or orange pill to buy bitcoin. I was like, I mean if you haven't done it in eight years, like why are you going to do it in the next five or whatever. And then, you know, boy told me like, who do you think has orange peel or given more exposure to bitcoin to more people around the world? And you know, I thought like, you know, Michael, sorry, like Andres Antonopoulos or Max Kaiser. But then we started doing research, research and of course it's Michael Saylor by miles. You know, and that really got me thinking, you know, it's like, do I really want to impose my values on people and tell them like it's either self custody or nothing. I was like, why, you know, I shouldn't do that? Like bitcoin is all about liberty and you know, free market and let people decide. So if they'd rather start, you know, with a Treasury company, why not? You know, I think it's for me it's kind of like, you know, you lure them into space, you know, with a culture banker and once, you know, they see the price increase is going to, you know, motivate them to learn more and then eventually maybe they take self custody. But it's a process, you know, and I think everyone thinks very differently. So of course, you know, the institutions, it's a very obvious play for them. But for us, our mission has never been about the institutions. It's always been about like, you know, the people. But then, you know, in Mexico, 70 million people have affores which are pension Funds. So once you do the math, it's like if I convince one pension fund, that's going to be more bitcoin exposure that I've done in the last 10 years with one client. So that's when my mind completely shifted. I was like, okay, let's do this. You know, actually, if you really want orange pillar country, this is the way. So, you know, Boyd joined the team, Ed joined the team as well. And, and, you know, and here we are.
- [15:54]
A
What can you share about where Arcadia B is right now in the private market and what your plans are over the short to medium term?
- [16:05]
B
So I think we're in a really privileged position in the sense that, you know, we've been building, building this business for 10 years. We are cash flow positive. We, you know, we don't have like a Runway because we, you know, we generated enough revenue to pay for everything. So we have like a very low time preference. But at the same time, we know that at this, like, we need to accumulate Bitcoin at these prices. Right. So that's why we were, okay, what, what are we going to do next? So we have this plan where we're going to, you know, keep doing what we're doing, which is generating revenue, growing our lending book and orange building people and all that, but at the same time going public. That's going to allow us for a lot of, like, there's a lot of synergies, you know, between treasury play and the Bitcoin business. So. So our idea is to make the most of both worlds, which is we offer bitcoin services, but at the same time, we're going to do, you know, financial products for people. So I mean, for us, our plan is this year we're going to issue our first instruments around September while being private. So in Mexico you can do that, you can issue preferreds or. Yeah, preferreds while being private. So that's our plan to start with that and then over time we'll see. Our plan is to eventually do an IPO here in the US and that way we're going to attack two of the. I mean, Mexico is one of the top 15 GDP in the world at the big market in Mexico is fixed income. Like, it's a really big market, especially because it's paying, I think right now it's like 8%. So a lot of the card trade moved from, like, a lot of people are doing that arbitrage on the exchange rates. Sorry, on the interest rates in Mexico. So it's a huge market and very liquid one. So we want to tap into that market with the preferred Mexico, but then at the same time tap the capital markets with the common stock here in the US So that's kind of our vision for the next two years. And in the meantime, just be more professional, have better systems, audit our books, be more transparent, because that's all part of the process of going public. And we think that is going to benefit our underlying business because people are going to trust us more and see we're for real.
- [18:39]
A
Did the idea for preferreds come from what strategy has done with literally 5 plus 5 or 6? I've lost track IPOs over the past year with those. Or. And how do you think about the digital credit kind of focus from them and Strive and Meta Planet? And it seems like more and more companies pushing in that direction.
- [19:04]
B
I mean, credit where credit is due. Michael Saylor came up with this amazing idea and of course we're all piggybacking on his invention or in his way of framing things, but at the same time, I think every market is unique. So we just kind of like got the general idea of using preferreds, but we're like tropicalizing them to Mexico, you know, because they're going to be very different to what Sailor is doing. I mean, it's the same idea, what with different sweeteners and with different kickers, different interest rates, because the Mexican market is way more conservative, way less sophisticated. So we need to tailor it towards that market. I think that's what's going to make a good treasury company in each market, is understanding the local market, understanding and really tailoring a product for that market.
- [20:09]
A
What has the experience been like going to different events and conferences and meeting with people? What's the feedback been? Are people shocked that anyone's even attempting a bitcoin treasury company in Mexico? Or are they like, oh, yeah, I mean, I don't know why there's not already a dozen of them or what's the conversation been like?
- [20:30]
B
You know, I. I've been very surprised on how the market sentiment has changed in Mexico in the last two years. You know, before we were trying to get meetings, you know, with the big guys from family offices or people running, you know, banks in Mexico. There was no way we can get in the room with them. Now, you know, they're even calling us and they're like, we need to talk to you. We want to see what you're doing. Or just to learn about bitcoin, just to give you an example. Like, we went to one of the biggest investment banks in Mexico and We had this huge pitch because we need them to help us play the instruments on the market, right? So we came with this presentation to teach them what a Treasury company is, right? We were in slide 2, and the guy's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. So right now my boss has me tracking all treasury companies, market treasury bitcoin treasury companies in the world, and I'm tracking their MNAVs. And we were like, what? Yeah, we know who my conseller is. We know who met the planet. They knew everything about treasury companies. I was like, oh, my God. You know, we were expecting that. You know, we thought they, they won't even understand bitcoin, let alone a Treasury company. And, you know, it's already happened with two banks where they know exactly what they're doing. They know, and they're very interested. Unfortunately, regulators right now, they don't allow them to play, but they're monitoring the space and they are, like, getting ready to when that happens. So for me, that change of sentiment in the traditional finance in Mexico kind of like, already happened. Like, the. The big guys, they, they. They are very well informed on what's going on, and they're. They're preparing to make a move for sure.
- [22:31]
A
Where's the best place for people to reach out, to learn more?
- [22:36]
B
And, and I mean, our website, Arcadia B, you know, Boyd has been playing a lot with the Moldbot, I guess, right now, and, you know, it's amazing what he's done in one month. And we have a lot of education there on bitcoin. We have, of course, our social media, Arcadia BTC on X Instagram, LinkedIn. So that's the best way you can reach us and, you know, ask anything. We love to meet new bitcoiners and just, you know, talk about bitcoin and just, you know, build and try to be ready for what's coming. Because I think there's a tsunami coming. We need to be ready, and hopefully we've set the infrastructure to make sure this scales and happens the right way.
- [23:32]
A
What would you have said if a couple of years ago someone said, hey, you're going to launch a bitcoin treasury company and there's going to be clips of you in a podcast studio in New York on Instagram? Would you have been like, I don't think so.
- [23:45]
B
I would say, or my dead body? Yeah, I mean, it was hard for me to, you know, come out to the public dox myself. But at the end of the day, if you really want to orange pillar country, you need to put yourself out there and you know, I love what Mahler said is like, I'm ready to die on this hill. You know, I really take that to heart. And, you know, that's why I guess the universe told me, it's like, are you for real or not? Here's your chance. Are you going to do it or not? So here we are. So what have you seen, like, during this bear market? You know, like, what do you know now that you didn't know before? And like, how has this bear market, have you grown? Has it. Have you become a better bitcoiner? What's been the effect of this bear market on you as a person, as a business? Because these market cycles really teach us a lot. No, yeah.
- [24:52]
A
Bitcoin is volatile. It does what it wants to do. And it's just been interesting to be having these conversations as, I mean, not just emerging markets, but this is a brand new asset and a brand new market on top of bitcoin as an asset. So just to see what strategy and the other companies have iterated on over time from issuing equity, the convertibles, and then to the preferreds, and seeing what the reality is of these additional bitcoin treasury companies, largely in the US and the learnings from that, I mean, you can just open up social media and see the good, the bad and the ugly of. And what I really appreciate is when the leaders are saying, hey, here's what happened, here's what we learned from it, here's what we're going to do moving forward. I have a lot of respect for that because we're all humans and we're all learning. And so as long as someone's being transparent about what happened, I mean, I would think some people are shocked, right? When someone just tells the truth. It's like, well, wouldn't you prefer that?
- [26:18]
B
I mean, people are not used to that.
- [26:20]
A
Yeah.
- [26:21]
B
So 100% agree. I think these bird markets really humble us and test our convictions. And for me, they're very healthy. You know, I love them. You know, we were discussing the other day internally, it's like, you know, it's going to be hard to race around on this market. I was like, no, guys, I mean, we were, when we were at 120k that we bought our first 16 bitcoins, you know, we were like, oh my God, the price is going to run. We need to stack harder. And we were like in this desperation mode, trying to raise money because the price was going to shoot. And then we were like. And then at the same time, it's like, how are we Going to make sure we get the right investors, like, because that for us is key. You know, we want low time preference guys who are for the long term and really get bitcoin. And you know, now we're here and I was like, this is the best filter we could ever wish for. Because right now whoever brings money to the table at this market sentiment is someone that really gets bitcoin, you know, and someone that really gets where you're going. So for me this is like a blessing in disguise. And also we're going to stack at way cheaper pricing. And also, I mean for me, really, and I think for everyone seeing microstrategies or strategy, you know, average price, I think this is the first time, no. Where the price of bitcoin drops below their average purchasing price. And I think the market's seeing that and seeing them like they're chilling is very healthy for the market and very, that's going to be very good for, for strategy in the long run. I mean, you can see it now on the stock, like the stock is holding better than bitcoin. And I think it's because people are surprised that, you know, there was a lot of misconception out there that they were going to get margin called and they want to lose the bitcoin and they were going to be forced to sell. He's just chilling, buying a lot more bitcoin. So I think that really now we can say that a Treasury company has been forged by fire, tried and tested and they're going to come out stronger than ever.
- [28:45]
A
You mentioned that your 10 or 15 friends in the example, many of them were not orange peeled over the past ten years or so. What has been their reaction to the corporate adoption of Bitcoin, to the bitcoin treasury strategy? Is it, oh, that's even crazier? Or they're like, oh, it makes sense because maybe it's more credible now with the blackrocks and the fidelities entering the game.
- [29:16]
B
I think you have a little bit of everything. The majority are like, okay, this gives it a lot more, you know, credibility and they invested through either ETFs or MSTR. But then there's also a lot of people where they kind of feel that they miss the, you know, the price because imagine I've been trying to orange peel them since bitcoin is like less than a thousand dollars. So they feel really dumb. So accepting that it's hard. You know, people are like, they are still. It's like accepting that they were wrong is hard for human beings. And I think for them, they're still, like, in a place where they'll rather, you know, they're like, okay, yeah, black rock is doing it, whatever. So now it's part of the system that you've been trying to fight forever. So they're still, you know, trying to argue why, you know, seeing the negative side. And I understand, you know, a psychology, they want to prove that they were right or not accept they were wrong. So, like, they say it's all about ego. I hope they learn as we all do. For example, these bear markets, they really help keep at least my ego in check. Because I was like, no, by now we're going to be at a million dollar coin. And sometimes we get so overexcited, and this just humbles you. And it's like, you know, we need to be more careful and. And definitely never, you know, try to predict prices or getting to that conversation. And it's more about the power of the underlying technology.
- [30:53]
A
Yeah. Dollar cost average.
- [30:55]
B
Exactly. Yeah.
- [30:57]
A
I guess that's the phrase that this reminds me of. So you talked about and mentioned Boyd a little bit. I feel like I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about Ed for a little bit. How did you meet Ed and what has your experience been like with him? Full disclosure. He's also my business partner with Bitcoin Treasuries Media, so he's got a full plate, but he just brings so much experience and perspective to the table. But I'll stop leading the witness.
- [31:28]
B
Yeah. The reason why I followed through with all this new, like, let's say, version of the companies, because there were a lot of signs from God or the universe or however you want to call it. Because, like, I'll give you an example with Ed. You know, we were. He's like, okay, I'm deciding if I'm going to invest in you guys or not. Let's meet in person. And he was going to fly to Monterrey, but those dates he proposed, I was not going to be there. So I was like, ah, man, I'm not going to be there. And I was like, well, I'm going to be in Puerto Vallarta. And I was planning on flying to Monterrey, but if you're not going to be there, then, you know, I was like, you're going to Vallarta? What dates? He gives me the dates, and it turns out I could be in Vallarta those dates. I was like, yeah, I'll see you in Vallarta. I'll fly there. You don't move. And Then, okay. And my mom, she has a place there in Vallarta, an apartment. So I tell Boyd, ah, perfect, let's go there. We don't spend any money on hotels. Let's go. And one day prior to meeting him, he's like, okay, where are we going to meet? And he's like, oh, I'm at this place. It's the same place where my mom has an apartment. So Ed has been going for 10 years to that place, same as me. So we probably saw each other there, like, at some point and we didn't know, like. So I was like a big, big coincidence, you know, I was like, oh my God, like, this is like so strange. And, you know, from that point, I guess Ed also saw it that way and he decided to invest. We had a really good conversations and, you know, he's been really like a mentor. You know, he has a lot more experience than me. He's worked in like, big companies with a lot more process, and he has a lot of experience in sales. So, you know, he's been really a good. He's not like full time working as you know, he's just like, more like strategic, like board member. But he's, at least to me personally, he's been a really good mentor and he brings a lot of value to table. And yeah, I mean, I'm happy he joined. He's like, he has a Mexican wife and then Boyd has a Venezuelan wife. So they both, you know, happy that something like this is happening in Mexico and. Yeah, very happy to. To have someone like that in the team, you know, because Boyd comes more from a background of like, I mean, they're both great, but I think a good team is with bridge, bring different things to the table. And Ed definitely brings a lot that none of the other team members have. So we're very happy to have him on board. And I know he's very funny all the time. He's making a lot of jokes. He's just great guy, for sure.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. How many team members do you have with the bitcoin operating business?
- [34:42]
B
We're like 15 people.
- [34:44]
A
Okay.
- [34:45]
B
Total. And I think we're not gonna. Well, never say never, but, you know, with all the technology out there now, we can scale the business 100x without needing to hire any more people. So, yeah, we've been very lean for the last 10 years. We used to be like eight people, but now on the engineering side, we had to grow a little bit and now we're 15. But we plan on staying there, maybe get some, you Know people with experience on public markets, but that's about it.
- [35:25]
A
Makes sense.
- [35:26]
B
Yeah.
- [35:28]
A
Appreciate your time today. Any closing thoughts as we kind of wrap up here?
- [35:33]
B
So. So I'll give you another crazy story of a guy.
- [35:35]
A
Absolutely. Please.
- [35:37]
B
A guy that I met. You know, there were like two big guys who have a lot of money in Mexico, and they were, they. They were trying to see how to invest in bitcoin. And one of them brought this guy to see if I was full of shit or not. And then the other guy brought me to see if the other guy was. Because we were pitching different business models. I was like, guys, buy bitcoin, put in cold storage and forget about it. And the other guy was like, no, invest in mining. So we got to the meeting, it was a launch, and immediately we know we weren't full of shit. We started talking and we started a really good relationship. I helped him with a lot of stuff on the technical side because he didn't have his own node. And then he was mining and he had a lot of microtransactions. And then he learned he had to consolidate his UTXOs. And it was a back and forward process for, like, I don't know, six months or so. But I never knew what he did for a living. And then we started this whole treasury play. And then I was with Boyd and we were like, ah, we need a profile that's more like into public markets and, you know, understand what the, you know, pension funds want and all that. I was like, yeah, don't worry, It'll come when we need it. Five minutes. I get a call and it's this guy. I was like, dude, I just learned that you're doing a treasury company in Mexico. Like, yeah, it's like, I want to join your team. Okay. But like, we don't need mining or anything. It's like, dude, do you know what I do for a living? I'm like, no. And the guy is the head of equities at one of the biggest banks in Mexico, you know, So I was like, oh, my God, of course you're more than welcome to join the team. And I mean, he's an advisor now, but those are just kind of the things that have been happening around this team and this project, which we're very excited and we're sure it's. It's going places.
- [37:37]
A
Awesome. Well, we look forward to following along and having you back here when you're in New York next.
- [37:43]
B
Thank you for your time, team, and for everything you, you guys do. I mean, you and ed. Like they were saying, it's like one in 100 get Bitcoin and. And then one in a hundred bitcoiners get treasury companies. And you guys are like literally the go to place to learn about treasury companies. And having that level of conviction and vision, I think is going to pay off a lot. And, you know, I just want to thank you for what you guys are doing because I know it's not easy. We're all just grinding. But thank you for the grind and keep doing it.
- [38:17]
A
We're building in the bear, and before you know it, we'll be building in the bull market for sure, man.
- [38:22]
B
Appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.