← The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast with Tim Kotzman
Conviction & Consistency with Roland Talalas of GIGA
00:29:10
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Transcript9 lines
- [00:00]
A
Roland, how are you sir?
- [00:02]
B
Ethan, good to see you. Great conference.
- [00:05]
A
Thank you. Good to see you. And maybe let's go back to basics. Like bitcoin is volatile. It's you know, 30% drawdown, give or take. The very historically normal. Am I saying crazy things here? What's your take?
- [00:27]
B
No, actually you know, I was listening to Natalie, your previous guest and I guess couple thoughts. I will get back to your question what you ask now but I want to go back actually in more distant past. You know, Natalie mentioned that she's from Eastern Europe, which I am as well. I'm from Lithuania originally. And you know, I was thinking of a day why? Why? I mean I, I am into the bitcoin and I was thinking back to my childhood and what I discovered and remember that we did have this huge inflationary periods in our currency meaning when Soviet Union fell apart and now we got so people savings got wiped out in rubles at that time. And then we got this Lithuanian currency first currency gold talonas that had like hundreds and hundreds of percent of annual inflation. So you know, and then we had you know, our Lithuanian currency, another currency which also happened was very inflationary period. So last like well first five years of. Six years of Lithuanian as independent countries was hugely inflationary and you know, people suffered. So I think, you know, I was a child at that time but I think something got probably ingrained in my mind as well. And I think it's a big part why I bitcoin personally and why with bitcoin at Giga. But going back to your question, actually I have few slides prepared and maybe I'll share that because just kind of broad overview what I think about the 30% dip.
- [02:10]
A
I love it.
- [02:11]
B
Personally we've been buying this week. I'll be buying a bit more today. So I think it's great time to buy especially if you've been in the market for longer period of time. I've been personally since 2017 as a company since 2021. So I kind of seen that in the past and I want to talk today a bit more about this conviction and consistency. I think that's kind of the two things that I'm discovering and not having of course big leverage but conviction and consistency. I think that what makes winning strategy in periods like that. So if you don't mind, I'll maybe share my screen a few slides to go over and hope will be interesting to viewers. All right. So have small agenda prepared. Few things would like to cover, you know, in a time we have maybe broader market Overview Talk about conviction and consistency. Share some examples including our example review a little bit Bitcoin treasury companies and capital markets and when it's pure place versus companies with operating businesses. Who has bitcoin on their balance sheet, companies like ours. And I want to introduce a bit more of actually what we do when we don't buy Bitcoin, when we do have an operating business and what we're all about in math. So so with that you know I'm browsing X watching sometimes CNBC and you know of course this time you see a lot of fud. So which is of course it's fear, uncertainty and doubt and you know people are fearful Fear index I pulled this chart from Bitbo but fear index is at 11 some, some show it's even less than 10. So everyone is very fearful and if you put it in a context actually that level of fear we have not seen many times in the last five years. I think it was in 2020 during COVID and it was 2022, middle of a bear market and I think we had another one in April of this year. Then we have a stat of scare and we have one now. But most of these times were good times to buy bitcoin and like I said that's what we've been doing this week and I'll be doing right after this interview a bit more. So what's causing it this time? I personally do not know. Is it profit taking? Because we predict someone is predicting cycle top quarter four in 2025. Maybe it's that, maybe it's global liquidity, maybe it's capital rotation. It's hard to say what's causing this dip. But I think what I can say for sure when I look back five years I think I can draw some conclusions. And if you're not over leveraged and if you have some cash and especially if you have conviction and consistency to keep buying in these periods usually come out at the top. Maybe not tomorrow but with time. I'm sure when we look back this time right now would be great time to add to the stack. So some examples to share of course one of his well known companies strategy and I was listening also to Saylor's podcast with Grant Cardone the day and Saylor was sharing what his conviction when he initially started buying in 2020. I don't know if you listened but what he said he wanted to smash buy 500 million worth of Bitcoin in one shot and I think the board stopped him. So he was allowed only to buy 250, 250 million in 2020. So talk about conviction, right? And then, you know, so I think he has the highest conviction out there from all, you know, deploying 250 million in 2020 and then you know, deploying more right after 375 and keep buying, you know, and then you talk about consistency. So you know, he kept buying and from the cash flows from money he was able to raise and, and, and another story, I mean and I think markets rewarded him. You know, if you look back, yes, stock is depressed now, but even, even if all the selling now, even if stock trading I think under $200 a share. When you look back since from 2020 till now, they still outperform a lot of companies out there, including bitcoin. So maybe at this time no longer Nvidia but I mean comparatively we're doing amazing ecostrategy. Another story I would like to share is not well known private company which is ours and we've been buying since 2021. So we started a year later when Saylor and we started on not at the peak, we started on the down market. We started buying around $46,000 a coin. And I think we had enough conviction and consistency through in 2022, 23, 24. Now of course 25 just continue buying when price action was up, when price action was down and, and of course for us is a bit different. Was mostly driven by free cash flow on hand which we could deploy. So that's what we used. And then I look back five years and we look at with some stats, even if it's a depressed bitcoin valley now, it's now no longer 90, it's less, it's like 86. But still our cost basis is still around 66,000. So we're still up around 28 million in Bitcoin gain. And now we added actually our ad shows less. But because we bought this week, now we have 1202 Bitcoin and I think we're gonna have a bit more by tomorrow. So. So that's what I'm saying. When you, when you have conviction, I mean you have consistency and you allow enough time to pass, I think you have a winning strategy. And if you and I think what kills many is leverage, I think that's kind of the biggest killer as probably other things too. Like Charlie Munger was saying with three Ls leverage, ladies and liquor, that's the three things that you probably might kill you or might kill your business. But in this case I think leverage is a big one. At least in the bitcoin because you can add a lot of leverage. You can leverage on some platforms 100x and be wiped out super fast. All right, so what's next? I think I want to maybe talk maybe couple distinctions about this per place and when companies like ours fast growing operating businesses bitcoin on the balance sheet. You know Michael Saylor started bitcoin Treasury Company in 2020. Of course we did not start as a pure play. We started his operating business with actual cash flows which they used to deploy 2024 of course we saw similar in Meta Planet in 2025 of course we had a huge wave of companies. I don't know how many are out there pure bitcoin treasury companies. This summer when we're at the top of excitement it seemed like this trade will never end. Right. Everyone was excited. MNAFs were flying high. And now of course we have quite opposite. We have extreme pessimism. We have MNAPS collapsed and of course pure play Bitcoin treasury companies have struggled to raise money. Not all, but most. I mean we had few voices of course and you know I think your might be one of them but definitely Ben Workman's and Adrian Morris and and and few others who were predicting actually that. And we're saying look how to have business underlying business if operating cash flows in periods like that. And I think that's what exactly what we're saying. If you're not a strategist, if you're not maybe, you know, maybe fewer companies who can claim the same. You kind of do need these cash flows in periods like that so you can continue buying bitcoin and you can grow your business. So what companies used to use, what tools they used to use to buy bitcoin cash flows. So that's obvious one, that's what we do. Meta Planet uses options cash via cash secured puts. That's how they generate their income. Many raised pipes. Many companies will still go public and raise huge pipes. Hundreds of millions of dollars. Many used ATMs when we traded above 1M navigation convertible bonds. And now of course new products preferred such as Strive, Strike Stride and Stretch. And I know strategies launched another one in Europe and probably working another one in UK and probably Canada and debt. Right. So that's kind of probably capital the tools to raise capital and buy more bitcoin. So strategy was very successful. Cash flows initially we deployed close to $500 million. They used early on debt which they retired ATMs they used very successfully raised billions in convertible bonds. And now of Course they innovated into digital credit with different preferred products. So strategy is actually doing, you know, stock maybe not doing well. But I think their ability to raise capital even in these environments clearly they can continue raising capital. Now have companies, new companies like Strive, they raised big pipe hundreds of millions of dollars. Now they launched their preferred SATA paying I think what like 12% dividend. So that's great. With companies like that we'll see. Probably we have enough bitcoin and now ability to raise capital via preferreds and probably will do fine in these environments. Companies like Meta Planet, you know they just launched their new preferred Merc called Mercury. They very successfully use ATM to raise capital and you know to, to stack 30,000 or I know how many we have now Bitcoin but and using options, you know, to generate cash. And I think they generated quite a bit of cash. 16 million in Q3 of 2025. Just screenshot from their website. So I think what's the difference between maybe these three Definitely strategy and everyone else. So strategy definitely reach to its escape velocity. You know we have their operating business but it's such a minuscule compared to their bitcoin. You can treat them as of course as a pure play of bitcoin. So strategies for sure. Metal Planet, I think, you know, we have a to be seen. But they also reached this escape velocity with a lot of bitcoin on the balance sheet. Strive could be next one. And who is next? I think time will show because we have a lot of many, many bitcoin treasury companies. And who will succeed? I think it shall be seen. Many now cannot raise capital, especially pure plays because they're trading under mnav. Many have overhangs from pipes. So we'll see. I mean I'm losing for all of them because I think it's good for bitcoin. But I think time will show and maybe we'll see some consolidation and some of interesting things happening in bitcoin treasury companies or with bitcoin treasury companies. Next one I would like actually talk about. It's a good time to talk about something more exciting. What Sailor talked about. So how do you 10x100x or thousandx your company? And Saylor talked about I think on multiple stages about that and I think he was saying if you want a 10x just buy bitcoin, hold it for 10 years and you probably 10x your money if you want a 100x so you have to buy it to feel someone else's money. And that's of course where potential leverage or maybe you sell some equity. If you're a publicly traded company, come in and if you want thousand x your company, you buy bitcoin with someone else's money and you lever that Bitcoin via digital credit. That makes a lot of sense. It is not available to all people in all companies of course and I think we just seen quite a few who use digital credit and strategies. The one of course Metal Planet and now strive and we'll see who else would be coming. But for the companies I think that's not available. So what could be available for companies like ours and other companies who have operating businesses and who have cash flow and so what can we do? So I want to talk a little bit about now transition from bitcoin into what we actually do as a business. Because I don't know many people aware. I mean we do know what we do make some products, but we are actually solving and we launched this year the platform and the new products to the market. So what problem are we solving as a company? So we're solving $115 billion problem in the United States. So and that's number of annual total addressable market of US building envelope industry. So that's it is one of the last major sectors that has not been industrialized. Majority of facades in America still build by hand outdoors in unpredictable conditions across dozens of disconnected trades. So what it does this leads to slow schedules and predictable costs, inconsistent quality, labor shortages. So how do we solve it? So we replaced this field built chaos with unitized and penalized building envelope systems manufactured with automation, robotics and AI driven digital twin workflows. So now as a developer, instead of maybe coordinating 10 to 20 vendors, now you need to deal with one US vertically integrated platform that designs, engineers, fabricates and delivers complete analytics system that results in four to six months schedule acceleration, factory level precision and dramatically better thermal performance and scalable process that removes risks from construction while improving both costs and the quality. So to summarize, we eliminate field variability with factory build precision. We do have end to end platform. We have a platform we can design, engineer, fabricate and we train you how to install. You have massive schedule compression which comes to cost savings from financing costs and other costs. Costs are predictable during day one in quality control and a platform that can scale nationally and globally. So in other words we're industrializing $115 billion category but definitely need a platform leader. So we intend to be. That's how we would like to see ourselves the Tesla building envelope. Because we focus on AI, we focus on Technology and I want to share short video actually how does that look like in real life? So I'll show you technology we developed. It's a Design and estimating 3D NAI powered software to design a building. So imagine you know, Utah in New York. You see all these buildings, you know, you see New York City skyline and all these buildings going up. So I'll give you some more comments after I show you a quick video on what our next platform can do for you. Let's say if you're a developer in New York City for example, that's all to scale, it's a little bit accelerated just for the time's sake. But it shows our developed in house software technology to Design, quote, automate 3D buildings in 3D and click a button. You can go to production with automated machines, program all programmable and essentially this is what you get. So if you developer Tim, you say Roland, here's my sketch and maybe draw me a sketch in a napkin. I can come back to you and give you this multiple designs of the system, precise quote deliver dates and if you like your price like a design say Roland, let's go with click of a button we can go to production and be on site in a few months and you can start installing. Of course the actual process will take a bit longer because it still requires work of architects and some other trades. And we do that all at no cost to the client. So that's the beauty of the technology we have developed. So Giga is a fusion between AI robotics and of course digital capital, which, which is Bitcoin. So where are we going? What is next steps for us? So we're going to continue to generate cash, we're going to continue to buy Bitcoin. Think we'll be able to continue buying beer markets because we have a cash flow that gives us of course strategic flexibility. We are considering certain capital raising opportunities, maybe future ipo. And I guess the goal would be from Bitcoin perspective to reach that escape velocity. We can't tap into digital credit and products like that. But of course main focus is to continue focus on the core business. So we have steep goals. That's how I was playing around a little bit of that's our goals, actual goals. So this year 715 million for 2035 as a conservatively want to hit at least 1.2 billion in revenue. That's our targets as a company internally. Can we do that? I have no doubt. Can we do 100x from what we are now probably. Can we do 1000x I don't know Matt but one thing I can tell you we have super ambitious team that knows how to execute. So that's where we're going. So how do you 10x100x your business? I think you capitalize your business. The best asset on the planet which is bitcoin. You focus on technology and AI and automation. You solve real life problem for your clients and generate cash flows. You scale your business, grow your cash flows, keep buying bitcoin, you raise capital, buy more bitcoin, your company public, raise capital and you buy more bitcoin. You start using digital credit and you can then buy maybe tens of thousands of hundred thousands of bitcoin and you keep growing your business and cash flows and you keep buying more bitcoin. So the valid thing look I want to conclude you can follow us BTC on X look up us on our website at giga us. Our slogan is build easy, stack hard and I think now it's one of the best times to continue stacking so that building too but definitely stacking at this moment in time. And that's the end of my short presentation.
- [23:16]
A
Awesome. I think you covered where to find you Any quick closing thoughts and thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate you making the time rolling.
- [23:27]
B
Thanks. Bye.
- [23:29]
A
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