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The Blind Life Podcast
Breaking the Music Barrier: Accessible Sheet Music for the Blind & More! Ep. 49
00:36:14
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- [00:03]
A
Today's episode is all about accessible music, what it really looks like to learn, play, and read music as a blind or visually impaired musician. I'm joined by Tamara, an author, musician, educator, and disability consultant who has been performing professionally since the age of nine and teaching music for nearly two decades. Tamara herself is legally blind, so she's bringing both lived experience and deep expertise to the conversation. We talk about both low tech and high tech options, adapting sheet music, and challenging the assumptions of what blind musicians can do. So let's jump into my conversation with Tamara and learn about accessible music. Tamara, thank you so much. This is so awesome. We did it. We finally got together for this podcast. I really appreciate it.
- [01:04]
B
Thank you so much for having me. It's truly my pleasure. I've been very excited to chat with you for a long time.
- [01:11]
A
I am too. So. So aside from we had some issues, I was sick, then you were sick, and then. But we made it. We're here. But this whole time I've been very excited to chat with you because the topic today, I know is something that a lot of people in the community don't desperately want to learn about. I get these questions all the time about how to. How to continue your passion of music after you've lost your vision. It's a difficult thing, and I think it's a testament once again to the old adage that everything has already been figured out. You know, I run into this a lot. I'm sure you do too, where people are like, oh, I can't do this, I can't do that. I'm like, yeah, you can, but I don't know how. Well, that's. No one's told you how. Someone's already figured it out. We just got to teach you. Now, this apparently is one of those things too, because after chatting with you on some of our calls, I've already learned a ton and way more than I knew. And so, like I said, I'm just excited to share it with the audience.
- [02:16]
B
I am so excited about music accessibility. It has been my life for the last 15 years. As a teacher, I work exclusively with students with disabilities. Being blind and having physical disabilities myself, it has been my biggest passion to try and get people back into their passions and able to access the arts in an accessible way.
- [02:36]
A
Yes, yes, I. And I love that. I love that I'm actually talking to an expert on this, this topic, and we're going to get the answers that I know everybody is eager to learn. But first, I mentioned in the intro that you have a YouTube channel. And you just mentioned that you're background is in music accessibility. But anything else you want to share about yourself?
- [02:58]
B
Well, unsightly opinions is not specifically music focused. It's more what I would call blind low vision edutainment. We cover all kinds of topics from daily living to tech to just some how to's, some story times. And I try and build a bit of a community where everybody can problem solve together and we can share what it's like living with vision loss or other disabilities. In terms of my daily life, I'm more of a consultant. So I do a lot of accessibility consulting and I have more specialized into music accessibility. So now I do a lot of lecturing, teaching other music teachers how to work with kids with a variety of disabilities and adults too.
- [03:39]
A
Yeah. And I. Fantastic content online. I will put links in either the video description or the podcast show notes wherever you are either viewing or listening to this. But. But talking a little bit more about the music. You have a big. A long history in music, am I right?
- [03:57]
B
I do. I started when I was 3 years old and I'm not going to tell you how old I am now, but let's say 30. Yeah, 30. Nin ninja. Yeah. So more than a quarter century playing and loving music.
- [04:13]
A
Yeah. And you play many different instruments. Right. What's the list?
- [04:18]
B
Oh goodness. Off the top of my head and I will probably miss a few things. I am primarily a violinist, but I'm also a pianist, singer. I do some woodwind stuff. So alto, tenor sax, flute, clarinet. I'm dabbling in guitar right now. I do Irish whistle. It's a little all over the place.
- [04:40]
A
I have fun, a lot of interests. That's awesome. Okay, well, let's jump right into it like I said, because I know a lot of people are interested in this and you sent me this long list of. Of things we could talk about. You also sent me some. Some actual books. I definitely want to talk about those. That's awesome. But this long list, you had it kind of broken down into simple solutions and then more high tech solutions and then I'm assuming that within those two categories also it's. It's kind of dependent on level of vision loss, am I right?
- [05:21]
B
Assessment 100%. And I like to assume that everybody is going to have their preferences. They may not be my preferences. So I like to do a bit of a spaghetti at the wall and then people can take what they want, leave what doesn't work for them, but somebody is going to have something that's going to work for them on this list, hopefully, yes.
- [05:43]
A
And that's fantastic. That's kind of how I approach tech reviews as well. I try to give as many different examples of how this particular device can be helpful in a wide variety of situations, knowing that it's not going to apply to everybody, but I should be able to catch the most people doing that. So that's fantastic. We'll jump right into it. So let's talk about some low tech solutions for playing music.
- [06:10]
B
Absolutely. I think the most basic low tech solution is going to be straight up magnification. We're going to use bigger paper, whether it's legal or newsprint size 11 by 17 and just make the music bigger. You can do that at your local staples or print shop. It's about five cents a page, I think still. And you take the original music, enlarge it to whatever percentage works best for you. If you do more than about 125%, you have to flip the page on its side and then you get the page cut in half and do each page. But it will make it nice and big. And if you give me just a second, I'll show you what that looks like flipped on its side.
- [06:53]
A
Oh, we have props. Excellent. If you are. If you're listening to this in the podcast, you need to jump over to the YouTube channel the Blind Life to watch this so we can. You can see the props in action.
- [07:06]
B
This is what it looks like if we're magnifying and we're just putting it on larger sheets of paper and we're trying to keep the original orientation of the music. But if we need to go bigger than that, we can start doing something a little bit like this. I'll hold that above my head hopefully so it's not muffling where it's half of the sheet of music, but we can make the music pretty darn big. It's about 200% enlarged from the original at this stage, so it does take up more space. You will need a bigger music stand, but it works really well for a lot of folks. I would say probably up to legal blindness level. 20/120/150 at least in the students that I've worked with. That's often been the best solution for low tech.
- [07:56]
A
Yeah. And that's just printing off the sheet music. I would also mention that a trick that I used to use many, many, many, many years ago, I actually played guitar in a band at church and I was more just rhythm guitar. And so rhythm guitar, it's super easy. I'M just strumming chords. So for me, my workaround was to just write down the chords on a sheet of paper kind of similar to what you're talking about here. I just used the black Sharpie blackmagic marker and I just wrote the chords in the progression. And maybe how many, how many strums for each one? Super simple. Just enough that I could follow along. And, you know, with practice, it works really, really well. Now, you know, obviously that's not going to probably be as practical for maybe someone playing piano or something, you know, some complicated music. But. But yeah, this, the. The copy and the sheet music print. That's awesome.
- [09:00]
B
And, and your trick for removing the lines and the staves altogether. I do that with a lot of students. That's a fantastic way to get only the information you need without all that extra visual clutter. And then it also gives you the option, if certain colors of paper work better for you in terms of contrast, blue, green, yellow, buff, whatever, you have the option to just write it out by hand. And I've done that with a lot of students. It works great. Rate.
- [09:26]
A
Okay, so, so large print, what else.
- [09:30]
B
In the low tech category? And I like to start low tech first just because I'm assuming a lot of people don't have thousands of dollars to drop on a hobby. So this is where I like to start. But we do have some fun things that are high tech later. We've already touched on colored paper, but we could also use something like a stand magnifier or a sheet magnifier and just hook it right onto your music stand or your piano stand, and it just brings that magnification forward from the sheet and you'll be able to see it in front of you. It does have some limitations in terms of which parts of the sheet are going to be in focus. But again, I've picked up sheet magnifiers at the dollar store for about 2 bucks.
- [10:12]
A
Yes. And yeah, so stand magnifiers, they come in all different sizes, lens sizes. Some of them will use the sheet magnifier. Some will actually use an actual round magnifying lens. Obviously something like that, you're going to have a smaller field of view. But yeah, totally could make it work. Especially if you don't need a ton of magnification because they tend to be rather low magnification, 100%.
- [10:38]
B
That leads me into my next one. If you don't need a lot of magnification or you're able to do it just with magnified plain paper, a Stand light that a lot of professional orchestral players use when they're playing in the dark. Magnificent. You have the option to make it warm or cool or neutral or brighter or dimmer. They make a world of difference to manage that lighting. Because glare and all kinds of things can be a huge issue.
- [11:04]
A
Yes. Yeah. And it kind of goes back to one of the basic rules of low vision contrast lighting. Those are some of the easiest ways to help with low vision. You know, if you're struggling, especially a lot of us with retinal conditions, it's our eyes inability to take in that light. So adding more light, especially the really high quality task lighting pointed away from you. So. So like you say, you don't get that glare. Extremely helpful in a lot of situations.
- [11:33]
B
Then when it comes to just having fun and exploring with music, I'm going to pull up a couple more things here we have two more of my favorite things. And this is more just exploring music, exploring shapes, exploring how it all fits together. This is more theory oriented and this works for all levels of vision loss is magnified hot glue drawing. So I have some music notes here that are very, very tactile. They've been just drawn in with hot glue on black behind. Very inexpensive adaptation. And this tactile music board, it's just felt that was glued together. And then I've got these little colorful music notes that I can just stick on and off. This fake piano that I've got on one side and this staff that I've got on the other side. So you can play around with what goes where and how does it all fit together. And students can add that. They can feel it, they can see it, they can touch it. It's big. Anybody can use it.
- [12:29]
A
Yeah, that's great. And I imagine all of those could probably just be purchased at like, you know, a hobby lobby or a Walmart or I'm sure you can get them online.
- [12:37]
B
100%. I picked up all my supplies for that at the dollar store, so.
- [12:41]
A
Oh, there you go.
- [12:42]
B
Yeah. Five minutes of assembly and a hot glue gun and we're all there. And then finally, what I consider still basic or low tech, but we are starting to get into the tech side of things. Is just using an audio recorder, something built into your phone or iPad or tablet or computer, just using audio, having an instructor, having somebody slow it down for you, say what you need to remember, and then you can practice with it at home or afterwards makes a huge, huge difference.
- [13:16]
A
So, yeah, that'd be a great option for anybody with, you know, that that kind of has that auditory learning processing brain.
- [13:25]
B
Well, and I use that with all of my students, whether they have vision loss or not, so long as they aren't deaf or hard of hearing. It works beautifully because it gives you those little extra reminders that you need. You can slow it down, you can speed it up. It just works.
- [13:37]
A
Yeah, it's great.
- [13:39]
B
So did you want to dive into high tech stuff?
- [13:42]
A
Yeah. So let's talk about the high tech, which is always my favorite stuff to talk about.
- [13:48]
B
Oh, me too. This is what I try to get students into as often as possible. So the first thing I like to recommend is music notation software. And that may sound a little bit scary at first because people assume when they think, oh, Musescore, it's for composing, that's not going to work for me. Why would I want that? You do. You really, really want that. First off, it's free, so you don't have to pay for anything. And these days, when we have music files, when we create music files on the computer, all of them use the XML format, but a special specialized XML format called Music xml. So just about any score that exists that's been created in the last 20 years exists in this specialized music XML format. What that means is if you can find the digital score online, we can load it up into this digital notation software and we can tinker to our heart's content. I have some videos I put together where I can show you. We can do an auto scroll and we can magnify in 2, 3, 4, 500%. Sky's the limit. How big you want it, how big's your monitor? That's how big you can make it. We can move through. It works with screen readers, so it'll individually tell you the note length, the note name, where it sits, how you're supposed to play it. It's brilliant. And it's free because musescore itself is open source, which is fantastic. It has basic braille capabilities. It works almost flawlessly with screen reader. It works beautifully with navigation. You can even do. And this is something I've done with a lot of my students who have good color acuity but tend to get lost in a lot of the dots and lines and maybe have nystagmus is we start colorizing the notes. So we go from black dots on lines, which is very, very busy, to colored notes. So all you have to remember is, well, C is red and D is orange and E is yellow. We don't even really care about the staff at that point anymore. We're Just following the colored dots. So it's brilliant. I love Musescore.
- [16:00]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's. It sounds almost too good to be true. Especially, you know, in this day and age, to have something that powerful be free is fantastic. And I would definitely benefit from. From changing the colors. I mean, it kind of reminds me of the old Guitar Hero game where it was just, you know, oh, yellow's coming down. I know. It's that finger. A red, a bl. Agree. Makes it so much easier.
- [16:24]
B
It does. And I mean, it can be a little bit overwhelming when you're diving in the first time. There's menus, layers deep, and a lot of things going on, but you don't need to learn 90% of what's there to make it functional for you. There's probably three things I recommend to my blind and low vision students, which is change it to an auto scroll or continuous scroll feed. Change the colors of the note heads, which I put together a little demo if you want to pop that in, where you can choose all of a specific note name and it'll change it to whatever color you want it to be. Or you can change, oh, only this specific note I want to highlight, or only this specific articulation I want to highlight. And it will auto do that for you through the entire piece of music. And then the final one is, well, do I need a different color of staff? Do I need a different color of background? What's going to make it the best visual contrast for someone to be able to see. See it. So it's not about creating music, although you certainly can with screen reader or with magnification. It's more about how can you get the scores that already exist and make them readable for you?
- [17:36]
A
Can you. I think I already know. But can you explain a little bit, what is auto scrolling and continuous scrolling and how that works?
- [17:44]
B
So what auto scrolling is, is if we think about music in lines on a sheet of paper, that's just normal view. Right. We expect, okay, we might get three or four bars of music on each line, and then we have to look down to the next line and then look down to the next line and then look. But with an auto scroll or a continuous scroll, it stitches all of those pieces together. So you watch it a little bit like a movie. It just continues to pan in from the right and then moves to the left as you play.
- [18:12]
A
Gotcha. Like a ticker tape.
- [18:15]
B
Exactly that.
- [18:16]
A
Yeah. Okay. Okay. And we had talked about using accessories. Is this the program that you can use like Bluetooth Accessories with.
- [18:26]
B
I do believe it has some pedal capabilities where you can connect a Bluetooth pedal to scroll forward or scroll back. It has a lot of options in terms of what you can do and if it doesn't have those capabilities, there is such a huge, huge community around creating this and making it accessible. You pop into GitHub or any of the discord groups and somebody will be willing to try and play with it.
- [18:52]
A
And make it work to try and figure it out. Yeah, that's awesome. So what is, what's the program available on what platforms?
- [19:01]
B
It's available on Mac and PC. I don't know if it's available on Linux, but I would imagine it probably is because it's been built by end users. And that's the part that I love is if there is a use case for it, somebody has probably tried to tinker with it and make it functional.
- [19:23]
A
I mean, if you, if you learn nothing else from this podcast episode, I think that is the big one. Definitely check that out because it sounds.
- [19:30]
B
Very, very powerful and I should specify I've been calling it Musescore. It's now called musescore Studio. Musescore itself is a website with a bunch of scores that are pre printed. Musescore Studio is the one that you want. If you're downloading the app, can you.
- [19:44]
A
Spell it for us real quick?
- [19:45]
B
M U S E S C O R E as one word then studio S T U D I O.
- [19:54]
A
So what else in the high tech.
- [19:57]
B
Ooh. The next one that I absolutely love is multi track recordings. So this is your reaper, your garageband, your logic, your, the programs where you can record multiple tracks of audio. So it's like your voice recorder on steroids. What I love about multi track recording and this is how I, when my vision deteriorated growing up, this is a system that we started using between myself and my parents and my teachers. And it was the only way that I was able to continue playing because Musescore was not a thing. So what you can do is you can find a MIDI track or find a recording or a teacher can go in and play the original piece of music at whatever tempo you need. Slow, medium, fast. You can adjust that after the fact and then they can go in and create a new track. And under each note or as they're listening back, they can give you cues and instructions for different pieces of information. So for example, we have our original piece of music playing in track one. In track two, it could just be the finger I need to put down to play the piece. Four Two, one, three, two, two. Shift up. Third position. Four, one, harmonic. And then I can follow that along and learn exactly by rote where everything goes. And you can have as many tracks or as few tracks as you need, but I would tend to toggle different tracks on and off. So we'd have a fingering track, so to know which finger to press down. I'd have a bowing track for complex bowings. I would have a position track. I would have a reminders track. And depending on how I was practicing or what I was reviewing, I wouldn't have all of them going at once. I'd mute the ones that I wasn't interested in at that time or after I learned something. I could turn it off and then just have the ones that were most important as I was playing back with the recording.
- [21:56]
A
That's. Yeah, that's such a great idea. I mean, it's like having, you know, it's like writing out your. You're writing an essay and then. And then your teacher is writing little notes in the margins. Oh, don't forget this. Don't forget.
- [22:07]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly that.
- [22:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, but that's so cool. Okay, that's a great idea.
- [22:15]
B
And then the other one. And no one I should mention off the top. I rave about these different products and apps and things. No one has ever sponsored me. I just love them because I use them every day. So we also have Playscore 2. What makes this really, really cool, it's not perfect, is you can take a photo of a printed physical sheet of music and it will play it aloud to you, multiple parts. So you've got a violin part and a piano part underneath, and it will play back the picture like, almost like an optical character recognition for music. It's so cool. And when you can't find those music XML files and adapt it in a different way, it means you're not stuck. And that app is also free. There's a paid version, but you can absolutely get by with the free version.
- [23:06]
A
Playscore. That's crazy. How long has that been out? Because I'm wondering if it's using some type of AI to do that.
- [23:12]
B
It's been out pre GPT, so I. I've been using it for about the last six, seven years, I would say.
- [23:19]
A
Okay. So, yeah, it just must. It must be some kind of musical OCR like you said.
- [23:25]
B
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just doing that.
- [23:28]
A
That's crazy. You know what? That's. I'm constantly. People always say, you know, they always ask me, what, what, what what surprises you or any. Any technology you're surprised about? Every now and then I run across something and it's like, I never would have thought of that. And that's so awesome that I can do that.
- [23:45]
B
Then no talk about high tech would be complete without a little bit of a chat about music braille. Music Braille is, for me personally, a challenge. I learned much better with audio because while I think music braille is fantastic for theory and understanding the structure of music and understanding how things fit together, it is very, very complicated to learn, unfortunately, because while music is spatial and organized top to bottom, and you can have articulations above or below notes or little notes, kind of like you say in the margins of the music, that you can ignore if you're just trying to read the sheet music, Music Braille can't do that. It's all in one line. So it gets very cumbersome to try and read, especially when you need both your hands to play your instrument. So it's a lot of memorization and going back and forth. And my biggest challenge with it is it's built on older systems of how we learned music. So more those that are familiar with figured bass, that's how we read chords in music braille. It's not how any human alive reads chords in 2026, but that's how music Braille is built. Because it's from 18 or 7, I don't know the number off the top of my head. It was invented at the same time Braille was invented in 17, 18, whatever, whatever. So it can be a little bit challenging when you know the braille Symbol D, like dots, 1, 4, 5, is actually a musical letter C and an E is a D, and an F is an E where you have to kind of do mathematical subtraction when you're reading it. That's where I ran into some trouble. So I am actually in the process of trying to rebuild music Braille using more of the UEB standard symbols. But that's still very early days. I'm just. That's just a passion project on the back burner right now. But if anybody reads music Braille or anybody knows Braille and wants to be a beta tester, send me a message.
- [26:03]
A
Okay? Yeah. And we will include your contact information here at the end.
- [26:07]
B
Please do.
- [26:08]
A
So I've seen a little bit of music braille. One of the programs that I know you were going to mention is Dancing Dots.
- [26:17]
B
Absolutely. I think Dancing Dots is great, especially if you are a strict braille reader these days. I don't know that the lime or lime allowed is necessarily keeping up with what we can get for free in Musescore or Musescore Studio. But for Braille, I do think it is still better and is able better to represent Braille than the basic music braille that I've seen in Musescore. That could change. But. So if you are a strict braille reader, it is absolutely worth checking out Dancing dots. I do find, and this is my personal opinion, that it is slightly dated and hasn't kept up with a lot of the modern creature comforts that music notation software has these days. So that would be my only qualm. But it absolutely has its place. It's absolutely fantastic if you're transcribing a lot of braille and the auto transcription into braille works very well. So if you're strict Braille it is worth checking out. But it is a bit pricey.
- [27:27]
A
Yes, I definitely wanted to point that out. There is a little bit of a cost to it, especially you know, over top of these, these, a lot of these free options.
- [27:39]
B
Absolutely. And you know, it is worth saying it's not a subscription, it is a one time purchase, which is nice in this day and age.
- [27:48]
A
Yeah, yeah. I. That is incredible. Just so many different options, so many different ideas. Well, tell me a little bit about these books that you sent me.
- [27:58]
B
Oh, I get to talk about my books. I. I have spent the last 10 years of my life trying to reinvent and recreate music theory in a fun, intuitive, accessible way. When I go into a topic, I go deep.
- [28:17]
A
Yeah. Just a simple little hobby.
- [28:18]
B
Just a simple hobby. I didn't do one book. I've got seven. Right. Yeah, no, it will be a nine book series. Currently books one through six are out, but I am working on seven, eight and nine right now the numbering is a little bit confusing because prep is book one and then level one, two, three, four, five after that. But it has been a passion project for me over the last decade. I come from a music theory family. I come from professional musicians on both sides of my family. I have orchestral musicians, I have classical musicians. I've got my dad's jazz rock pop guy. I was surrounded by music and the for having a grandmother that wrote music theory books. I was never introduced to music theory at all because it was just assumed because of my vision loss. Can't read dots on page. Impossible. What's the point? Why would you need to know that? Just why? So when I started teaching When I was 13, 14 years old, I kind of had this deer in headlights moment of, oh, I don't. I don't know anything. I need to figure this out right quick. And then as I started working with more students with disabilities, as I started really developing and fleshing out my teething teaching, as I started really fleshing out my teaching methods, it became obvious to me that what was out there was not accessible, frankly, to any students. So what I did is, is I took my grandmother's books. Grace van den Doel wrote Keyboard Theory, and I took the her books and I reinvented them for the 21st century. So accessibility was integral from step one. Every single one of these books in its natural format is in large print. Yeah, there was. There was no argument about that. Boy, howdy did I have some long discussions with my publisher, but I was not budging. So every single thing is in large print in sans serif fonts. Everything is on really thick paper so that you don't have bleed through from behind. We use color as a teaching tool, so our notes are colorful. So it helps people who can't track or might have different learning needs understand. We've tried to make it exciting so that you can learn through play rather than through rote memorization, which sucks. Nobody wants to Write a scale 27 times. How about we have an adventure? How about we have characters? How about we have visible representation of disabilities? So we have four characters that learn with us as we move through the books. And they all have. Well, not all of them. Three of them have visible disabilities. And that was really, really important. Important to me that we see people with disabilities not just as something to pity, but these are adventure heroes. They're cool. They're problem solving. They're able to do it. And that led me to making sure that this book was available in just about any format that somebody could want. So it is available in braille. It is available in this colorful version. I have it in monochrome, which is strict high contrast black and white. I have it available in audio, and we have interactive exercises. So in the braille version, where we have things that can't be modified, I've rewritten the book so that the exercise makes sense for braille readers.
- [31:57]
A
That's.
- [31:57]
B
That's. That's my. That's my TED Talk. I hate. I hate bragging, but I am so passionate about these books. I love them.
- [32:04]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, and you can. You could. As soon as you open it up, you can tell it is very, very high contrast. I mean, all the. All the notes, all the lines are really bold. The Large print. The colorful pictures. Yeah. This is fantastic. So how can people. Where do you get them?
- [32:28]
B
You can find these books at Odyssey Music. O D Y S S E Y M U S I and if you are blind or low vision and looking for one of these books, just pop me an email. There's a contact form, because if you're blind or low vision, I can send it to you. Free matter for the blind.
- [32:47]
A
Music theory. Now, once again, I am a complete novice. I know how to play guitar chords and, you know, like, smoke on the water and silly stuff like that. But that's, like. That's the limit of my music knowledge. But I do know, especially from YouTube, that music theory, if you're passionate or if you're serious about music, learning music and you're passionate about it, music theory is integral to becoming. Well, I talked earlier about people that can just listen to a song and then kind of figure it out. Music theory is crucial for that because it teaches you kind of. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it teaches you the. The spaces in between notes and how you can go from one note to get to another notes and the best way to do that and what makes sense. With scales and all of that.
- [33:39]
B
Yeah, exactly that. It's the nuts and bolts of why music works and what works and what doesn't, and how do we get from one to the next. And it starts as basic as what are the notes and goes as deep as polymodal scales and polyphonic rhythms. And it. You can. It gets wild how in depth it can get. I don't suggest most people get to that level. I think a good basic understanding for me, kind of Prep through level five is a good base understanding that'll get you through 95% of what you need to know. And if you have to do exams or you're doing stuff beyond that you're teaching, that's when you'd want to dive into higher levels.
- [34:22]
A
Well, this is amazing, Tamara. Thank you so much. I am a big believer of building a network of experts in your life. You know, they talk about, everybody should have a friend who's a plumber, an electrician, and somebody that owns a truck for those times that you need those things. And so you have become my new music expert.
- [34:45]
B
Well, thank you.
- [34:46]
A
Whether you want to be or not, you're. You're. You're hired.
- [34:49]
B
I'm honored.
- [34:52]
A
So from now on, expect emails from me with. With people. Like, somebody asked me this question. I'm sending them to you.
- [34:58]
B
Perfect. Done. I love helping out.
- [35:01]
A
So if anybody wants to reach out to you, let's. Let's talk about contact information you gave your website. That's awesome. How can people get ahold of you?
- [35:09]
B
You can get a hold of me through YouTube on unsightly opinions. I am on just about every social platform that exists. You can message me there. You can email me through my website at Odyssey Music. You can pop a message to Sam and he'll forward it to me. You can reach out to unsightly opinionsmail.com and I'll be there.
- [35:30]
A
Okay. Lots of different ways. All right, well, I will do my best to include all of that in the video description in the show notes. This has been fantastic to me, Tamara. Thank you so much. Like I said, I was really excited about this and did not disappoint. I learned a ton. I think it's awesome. And I know everybody listening and watching is going to appreciate it as well. So thank you so much.
- [35:53]
B
Thank you so much. I really love talking about it, so thanks for giving me the opportunity.
- [35:57]
A
Thank you guys so much for checking out this episode. If you'd like to learn more about Tamara or Odyssey Music, you can find all the content contact information either in the video description or the show notes of the podcast. Thanks again, guys. Sam with the Blind Life. I will see you next time.