Ep. 36,  Innovating Mobility with Sedona Dave - All Terrain Cane & Urban Xplorer

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Blind Life Podcast

Episode 36: Innovating Mobility with Sedona Dave – All Terrain Cane & Urban Xplorer

Host: Sam Seavey
Guest: Sedona Dave, founder of Werewolf Gear
Release Date: September 30, 2024

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Overview

In this episode, Sam Seavey interviews Sedona Dave, the innovative mind behind Werewolf Gear, which produces the All Terrain Cane (ATC) and the new Urban Explorer (UX) cane for blind and visually impaired people. The episode sees two conversations: the first (recorded in 2023) focuses on the inspiration and design philosophy behind the ATC, and the second (2024) discusses the development, features, and real-world impact of the Urban Explorer. Across both, Dave explains his hands-on approach to solving issues he encountered as a cane user—blending personal experience, technical ingenuity, and a touch of humor while talking about mobility aid innovation.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Inspiration and Development of the All Terrain Cane

[01:13 – 08:25]

• Origin Story:

  • Dave describes struggling on a hiking trail as dusk fell, completely losing contrast and depth perception, leading to disorientation and injury.
  • His frustration spurred the idea: “I need something, but I don't know what this is. But this is what's going to keep me safe on the trails.” [01:37 – Dave]
  • Initial research led him to trekking poles, but he knew these alone weren’t suitable.
  • The solution emerged through multiple prototypes and field-testing in his “laboratory”—his garage.

• Design Philosophy:

  • Fusion of a trekking pole’s ruggedness with essential mobility cane features.
  • Quote: “For lack of a better explanation, it’s the child of a trekking pole and a blind cane.” [03:37 – Sam]
  • Dave likens its origin to, “A trekking pole and a mobility cane met one night at a bar. It's beautiful.” [03:48 – Dave]

• Key Features:

  • Durability and Materials:
    • Built for extreme robustness, constructed from titanium for lightness and strength, with stainless steel joints for longevity.
    • Designed to withstand full body weight, even on unstable surfaces like sand [04:03–06:13].
  • Handle:
    • Extended grip (16") with a golf-style handle, allowing users to “choke up” for climbs or use as a ski pole grip for descents.
    • Adjustable with a “flip lock” mechanism—easy to operate for blind users: “It’s very binary. It’s okay. Now it's open… and now it's locked.” [04:44–05:47 – Dave]
  • Length Adjustability:
    • Expands from 51" to 62” for user flexibility.
  • Tip:
    • Outfitted with a standard 2" rolling ball tip optimized for traversing sand, gravel, and rough terrain.
    • Comes in vibrant colors (yellow, sherbet pink, red orange) for added personality: “Why not bling it up a little bit?” [06:51–07:41 – Dave]

• Real-World Flexibility:

  • Users can adjust the length on the move, making it suitable for both hiking and urban use.
  • Sam: “I like the flexibility of being able to put it whatever height I like.” [07:42 – Sam]
  • Dave: “We just need the right tools and we could be anywhere we want to be.” [08:03 – Dave]

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All Terrain Cane vs. Urban Explorer: Evolving Mobility Solutions

[08:31 – 20:52]

• Urban Explorer Origins:

  • The Urban Explorer (UX) emerged as a response to feedback and Dave’s own insights after the ATC launch.
  • Designed for those who need a “kid sister” to the All Terrain Cane—something more compact, lighter, and city-friendly.
  • “It just congealed in my head: A smaller version of the ATC. That's where the concept came.” [11:24 – Dave]
  • “Why would I need something that strong in the city? Well, it's a jungle in there.” [10:37 – Dave]

• Design Advancement:

  • Major emphasis on reducing weight and increasing portability for everyday urban use.
  • Smaller Folded Size:
    • Folds smaller to fit backpacks or purses.
  • Lighter Build:
    • Redesigned joints and swapped steel cable for a bungee system, shaving 2 ounces off the final product.
    • Quick field repairs possible—a key improvement for city use.
  • Extendable Grip:
    • Retained, but now with a 6" instead of 11" extension due to its popularity: “That's a cornerstone. That's not going anywhere.” [14:01 – Dave]
    • Identified as a “legacy feature” and signature of Werewolf Gear canes.
  • Strength and Safety:
    • Maintains high strength for both vertical (weight-bearing) and lateral (trip, stumble) stress, critical for navigating urban “hazards” like catch basins, cobblestones, and belligerent pedestrians.

• Quality Over Speed:

  • Dave delayed production rather than release an imperfect product: “Please get mad at me. I'm the reason why it's delayed... because it was too heavy. It wasn't right. It wasn't good enough to release to market.” [14:48–15:21 – Dave]
  • “I'm just super picky and it really does need to meet my standards of weight, of performance, of strength.” [15:29 – Dave]

• Repairability & User-Friendliness:

  • Bungee system allows for DIY repairs—a necessity given how common bungee failures are: “Being able to repair it if you need to... that's an important feature to have.” [17:34 – Sedona/Sam]
  • Maintenance kits already underway; joint and shaft maintenance a company priority.

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Memorable Quotes and Notable Moments

• Dave’s “Eureka” Moment:

  • “The sun's gone. I can't see. I don't have any contrast. I mean, I'm hurting myself. I don't belong here. I need something… I need this, but I don't know what this is.” [01:49 – Dave]

• On Tool Personality:

  • “These are our tools we use every day. Let's put a little bit of personality into them.” [07:38 – Sam]

• City Survival:

  • “It's a jungle in there… belligerent people who really don't want us there. I hate to bring that up, but they are there and they don't like our canes.” [10:37 – Dave]

• On User Standards:

  • “It wasn't right for me. I mean, it was super strong, but it was just too heavy and I wouldn't have that.” [14:37 – Dave]

• Repair Kit Jokes:

  • (On cane maintenance): “A Werewolf Gear brand crochet hooks.” [18:16 – Dave]; “Werewolf Gear cane repair kit. Coming soon.” [18:37–18:42 – Dave/Sedona]

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Listener Questions & Community Response

[19:09 – 20:52]

• Community feedback rapidly shapes development; Urban Explorer garnered more than 5,000 YouTube views in its first week, with strong demand.
• Sam and Dave joke about product roadmaps and next ideas, with Dave humorously declaring, “I'm going to sleep. I'm going to Disneyland for real at this point.” [19:25 – Dave]

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Where to Learn More

[20:01 – 20:52]

• All products, including canes, tips, repair kits, and merchandise, are available at aWerewolfGear.com.

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Takeaways

• Innovation is driven by user need as much as design inspiration.
• Durability, adaptability, and style are integral in modern mobility aids for the blind.
• User feedback, self-repairability, and continuous improvement are at the heart of Werewolf Gear’s ethos.
• “We just need the right tools and we could be anywhere we want to be.” – Dave [08:03]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Origin of All Terrain Cane & Personal Story:
  [01:13 – 03:37]
• Design Features, Materials, and Practical Use:
  [03:37 – 08:25]
• Transition to Urban Explorer: Inspiration and City Hazards:
  [08:31 – 11:49]
• Key Innovations, Reducing Weight, and Field Repairability:
  [11:49 – 18:16]
• Jokes, Repair Kits, and Closing Reflections:
  [18:16 – 21:23]

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This engaging episode covers not only the technical evolution of modern canes for the blind, but also the community spirit and real-life problem-solving that drives lasting innovation. For anyone interested in independence, design, or adaptive technologies, Sedona Dave’s approach is deeply inspiring, practical, and refreshingly candid.

Transcript

[Dave]

Foreign.

[Sam]

Hey, everybody, it's Sam with the Blind Life.

[Sedona]

Welcome back to another episode of the Blind Life podcast. Today I'm talking with my friend Sedona.

[Sam]

Dave, the amazing guy behind the werewolf gear brand and the mad genius behind both the All Terrain cane and the brand new Urban Explorer. The. The first part of this episode was an interview I did with Dave last year out in la. I sat down with him for a little bit and talked about the All Terrain cane.

[Sedona]

Talk about what inspired him to create this new cane and what sets it.

[Sam]

Apart from everything else on the market. And then the second half is a recent interview with Dave talking about the brand new Urban Explorer. Just an absolutely great conversation with Dave and really cool to kind of take a peek behind the curtain to learn.

[Sedona]

A little bit about what goes into.

[Sam]

Creating a new cane for the blind.

[Sedona]

I hope you enjoy it.

[Sam]

Thank you guys for listening and I.

[Sedona]

Will see you in the next one.

[Sam]

Dave, I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you taking a minute to talk with me about this. So you came up with the All Terrain cane. Can you tell me a little bit about the inspiration?

[Dave]

The inspiration?

Yeah.

It came one day on a trail. Now, this was all. I gotta preface by saying this is all before I was fully competent on the cane. So I was in middle of orientation training. I knew what the cane was about. I had a taste of it. I didn't like it, but I knew it was my future.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

So, okay, back to the.

[Sam]

Not fully comfortable on it.

[Dave]

Not at all. Not at all. But I knew its purpose. And deep inside I thought, all right, I've got to get this. Anyways, back on the trail, as the sun dropped below the horizon, I lost all direct sunlight, shadows, contrast, depth perception. And I started fumbling around and tripping and wrenching my ankles and apparently spewing some. I don't know what was coming out of my mouth, but it was enough for my wife to stop and turn around and say, what is the problem? And I said, the sun's gone. I can't see. I don't have any contrast. I mean, I'm hurting myself. I don't belong here. Okay? I can't do this. I don't. I need something. And I was like, I need this, but I don't know what this is. But this is what's going to keep me safe on the trails. The next day, I was at Canyon Outfitters. Can you show me where your blind hiking section is? He shows me the first aid kits, right? The flashlights, the whistles, you know, like, well, don't you have anything for hiking? He's like, well, let me show you the trekking poles. Okay. Not what I needed, but let me take some brain cells back to my garage, the laboratory with a trekking pole. What can I do with it? And over the course of many iterations, many trials with tips, duct tape, knives, I came up with the first few prototypes of the All Terrain cane. It was a huge success for me on the trails of Arizona. And that was my start. What do I need to keep me safe and hiking on the trails? And the brainchild of the All Terrain Cane was born.

[Sam]

For lack of a better explanation, it's the child of a trekking pole and a blind cane. Right. With some really cool. Some really cool additions, though.

[Dave]

I love that a trekking pole and a mobility cane met one night at a bar. It's beautiful.

[Sam]

So let's go over some of the aspects of it and explain the thinking behind it. Now, obviously, it's extremely durable.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Sam]

Like, we've been laying on this thing. We've been really, really.

[Sedona]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam]

Full weight on this without any problems in the sand, which is not very forgiving for leaning on stuff. How about the handle? The handle is probably the most striking thing about it.

[Dave]

Nice.

Nice.

Okay. I put a lot of thought and a lot of miles on the trails to go into the handle that I feel solves my problem. When I'm hiking, I tend to choke up a lot. You know, when you're ascending, your steps are very short. I needed the ability to choke up, so I wanted to extend the grip from nine inches, what we have on our mobility canes, to 16 inches.

All right.

So with a golf grip, it gives me the ability to choke way up.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Switch over to a ski pole grip as I'm descending, letting my upper body take the weight. Now I've got 16 inches of positive grip. This is a good positive grip, and I know I'm going to be safe as well. I wanted to mount this grip independently of the cane to give us a what I like to call a one size fits most cane. So I incorporated a flip lock that allows the grip to slide up about 10 or 11 inches, giving the cane the length of between 51 and about 62 inches. Also, I wanted to go with a flip lock. I found that for the blind community, it's easy to identify, and it's open or closed. It's very binary. It's okay. Now it's open. It's going to move. And now it's locked.

[Sam]

And it really is locked in, too.

[Dave]

It really Is. Yep.

[Sam]

And you can tighten it too. If it does over time, may become loose or something. You can tighten that down.

[Dave]

Exactly. A lot of thought went into the strength of this out in Arizona. What do I get to hold on to cactus and dead trees? I need something to hold onto for ascending and descending.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

So I needed to really put some thought into the design, materials, joint design. I ended up going with a titanium.

All right.

It's super lightweight, but amazingly strong. And this is what's gonna keep me safe. And as I'm desetting braking. The joint is stainless steel. Stainless steel, not aluminum. So it gives that joint some real rigidity.

[Sam]

And then to top it off, you've got the giant rolling ball tip, which is a slip on tip, which is great. And is this larger than your average rolling ball tip?

[Dave]

Not really. It's a standard 5 centimeter or 2 inch rolling ball.

[Sam]

Okay.

Maybe because it's.

[Sedona]

It feels bigger. It feels like it's gonna glide over everything.

[Dave]

It really does. It does great on the sand. On the trails in Arizona. Sand ledge, gravel, rock. It just does a great job in skimming over all the surfaces. A lot of haptic feedback too. So we can really hear and feel the hollowness of the sandstone out there. You can hear, okay, that's gravel. And now I'm back on the trail. It's a great tip. And for me, it does span all terrains. We're also going in different colors. We're going with a yellow, a sherbet pink, which is really cool, and a red orange, which. It's really interesting colors. I wanted to just give it a little bit of bling. Why not? Why not bling it up a little bit? Make it interesting.

[Sam]

Yeah.

These are our tools we use every day. Let's put a little bit of personality into them.

[Dave]

Absolutely.

[Sam]

But also what I noticed too, is in just an everyday use, for me personally, I've been fluctuating between a longer. You know, I might lengthen it out as I'm walking down the street, and then if I go in somewhere, I might shorten it up a little bit. I like the flexibility of being able to put it whatever height I like.

[Dave]

Oh, I appreciate that.

[Sam]

Well, you should be proud, sir. I think it's a great cane.

[Dave]

I appreciate that. You know, and I am, I'm. I'm. I'm proud that you're out on the beach using it. That it's not just me on the trails anymore. It's. I'm not the only blind person on the beach stomping around saying, why am I the only blind person on the beach? You know? Yeah, we just need the right tools and we could be anywhere we want to be.

And here we are.

[Sedona]

All right, we're back with Sedona Dave. And now we're going to be talking about the Urban Explorer. So, Dave, we just had a whole conversation, conversation out in la, talking about the All Terrain Cane and where that came from and the inspiration and all that. So I'm curious to learn about the Urban Explorer. Was this something that you had planned from the beginning or is this just like a natural progression from creating the ATC to the ux? What do you think?

[Dave]

Great question, Sam. There's actually a moment where this event happened. I had to fly out to Baltimore to help my partner fulfill the first batch of allterrain canes. They finally arrived. Let's stuff some boxes, get them out. And on the way back to the hotel that night, Barry was driving us back, Diane was in the car with us. And Diane said, hey, Sedona, Dave, now that the ATC is out and about, what next? Almost as like a radio guy would, would be interviewing me, hey, so what's next? And, and I, I've always, I've always wanted a, a super, super strong city cane.

And I knew that, you know, by.

By boxing up all the All Terrain Canes, you know, they, they were substantially long, folding about 21 inches. And, and I knew that as I was testing them out, going through the first few prototypes from the factory, you know, what would I change to make this city friendly? So my first response to Diane in the car was, you know, let's make a kid sister version of the All Terrain Cane. And what a kids. What do you mean? Well, something that folds smaller. I want something for the backpack, you know, that can tuck in to your pocket or a purse, but, but as strong, as strong as the All Terrain.

Cane, you know, why would I need.

Something that strong in the city? Well, it's a jungle in there. And, and though I, I've, I've escaped more or less unscathed from the city environment, it is a jungle in there with the corridors, catch basins, you know, the down guys, the guy wires that can hang up arcanes, my goodness, catch basins, cobblestones, fire hydrants, belligerent people who really don't want us there. I hate to bring that up, but they are there and they don't like arcanes. And, and I really felt that we need a fighting chance in the city to bring our canes home with us safely at night to get home safely at night. And it just. It just congealed in my head. A smaller version of the atc. That's where the concept came, of course. The development, research and development and designs and styles and different prototypes came and went. But the original concept was I need a street friendly All Terrain cane.

[Sedona]

It's so funny that you say that, because knowing our friend Diane, that totally sounds like something she would say. Like, what's next? Well, can't we bask in the glory of the All Terrain Cane for a little bit longer, Diane?

[Dave]

Yeah, more sleepless nights, please.

[Sedona]

Yeah, that's hilarious. So, yeah. Well, and then I imagine that because there has. There's been a couple aspects of the All Terrain Cane that people have had some criticisms about. Not necessarily negative, but things that they would like to see. And I know one, a cane that folds up smaller was definitely one of them and a little bit lighter weight. You know that because like you said, there are situations where that's fantastic, but not every day. We're not. We're not hiking trails every single day. So something that is a little bit more everyday user friendly would be super cool. And, and you definitely captured, I think, captured all of that in the Urban Explorer. And so was there, I guess there was conscious decisions made to, like, reduce the weight, the smaller grip. You got rid of the, the kind of the steel cable on the inside. All of those, I'm sure, were designed to help reduce the weight and make it a little bit more portable.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Weight was crucial to me. That was absolutely vital that I get the way to where I wanted it to be. And you're right, the, the joints, the, the bungee material, the cabling, everything came into consideration. There, There were some elements that I absolutely needed to retain the extendable grip needed that, that is such a huge hit. Everybody seems to love the fact that the cane can grow in length, not, you know, not 11 inches that the ATC can do because everything's smaller. So with the Urban Explorer, sure. We'll give you six inches of extension. That's a cornerstone.

[Sedona]

That.

[Dave]

That's not going anywhere.

[Sedona]

Yeah, that's. That's kind of become your. I think it's going to become your legacy. Like.

[Sam]

Right, that's.

[Sedona]

That's identifies a. And a werewolf gear cane.

[Dave]

Nice. I love that. I love that. But the cabling in the atc, that's not, that's not crucial to, to its function. I like it because it's super strong and I don't have a bungee exposed, but it's, it's A complex piece of equipment, the assembly. And I cannot field repair those, for example. So with the Urban Explorer, I wanted to be a bit more friendly all around because we're not out in the wilderness crushing it, but in the city, you know, what a hook style tip and one single bungee up the middle solves a number of issues, right? The joint itself, I, I needed to redesign from the ATC and. Very interesting. When we got our final prototypes from the factory, the first thing I noticed in my hand was it's not right, it's, it's too heavy. And then got into the factory. What went wrong? What changed? Ultimately, I was able to shave 2 ounces off the total weight of the cane because it wasn't right for me. I mean, it was super strong, but it was just too heavy and I, I wouldn't have that. So another delay in production and, you know, another batch of frustrated customers like er, you know, I ordered this so long ago and ultimately I had to say, you know what, please get mad at me. I'm the reason why it's delayed. And they're all why, why? You know, the pitchforks and the, the tiki torches, like why? Well, because it was, it was too heavy. I didn't want, it wasn't right. It wasn't good enough to release to market the prototypes before there was an issue, they weren't strong enough. So I'm just, I'm just super picky and it really does need to meet my standards of weight, of performance, of strength. And ultimately the Urban Explorer was dialed in such that when it folds, it folds as small as it can be. I'm super conscious of, you know, I, I, I could take 2, 2 cm off the total folded length. I will. If I can shave some weight off, I will. If I can make this able to field repair, I will. And that's where we are with today's Urban Explorer. It is as strong as the ATC in both vertical and lateral weight bearing. Lateral being in any kind of trip and fall situation, the joints aren't going to pop open. Similar joint design as the atc, but in the urban setting, the trip and fall is stumbling out of cars or into parking blocks or who knows what. So making sure that the strength is there and it is.

[Sedona]

Well, I definitely used it when I was on my cruise because there's a couple times when that we had a stormy night and that that ship was, was rocking back and forth and walking down the hallways and stuff. I, I had to lean on it several times. So I was thankful for that and you know, that's something I didn't even touch on in my video and I probably should have is, is being able to repair your cane because things happen. Canes break all the time. And the number one, I think the number one part on a cane that will fail is the bungee. The bungee usually is the thing that breaks it rips, it snaps or whatever. And being able to repair that. I've repaired many canes in my time. I know most cane users probably have. That's really, that's really says something. You know, that's. That's an important feature to have is the ability to repair it if you need to.

[Dave]

Yes. Yeah, without a doubt. And it's not just trying to replace the hook tip and the. The bungee pops in and I need a 12 inch crochet hook to fish it out. A Werewolf Gear brand crochet hooks.

[Sedona]

There you go.

[Dave]

Metal tab. And the metal tab.

[Sedona]

So yeah. Werewolf Gear cane repair kit.

[Dave]

Coming soon. We're on it. We have started. We have started on our shelves. We do have. Thanks for mentioning this silicone impregnated cloth part, part one of our maintenance kit program. Keeping the joints in that upper shaft clean, lubed, ready to go. So yeah, good call on that. We're on it. Crochet hooks are next.

[Sedona]

Awesome. Awesome. So, well, the. The urban. I'm going to play the role of Diane here. The Urban Explorer has just released what's next Dave? Why are you being so lazy? Come on, man, get back to work.

[Dave]

I'm going to sleep.

[Sedona]

I'm going to Disneyland for real at this point. Well, I know based on the. The response to my video, people are loving it. My video has over 5,000 views on it so far and it's only been out for like a week or two and people are really enjoying it. I'm sure you guys are getting tons of orders. So real quickly let everybody know we're wrapping this interview up. And I appreciate it. How if anybody's interested in learning more about the All Terrain Cane, the Urban Explorer, some of the Werewolf Gear merchandise. What's the best way to do that?

[Dave]

The merch. Best place to go is to check us out on our website. That is a werewolf gear.com and that is AWF G E A R dot com. And that'll take you right to the pages where you can check out the allterrain King Urban Explorer. We've got a pretty vast selection of T shirts that really bring attention to the blind low vision community. As I mentioned, we've got some wears that is silicone claws. So you can take care of your ATC and the ux, the joints and shafts, ball tips, dome tips. What's next? Maybe a reflective sweatshirt, but a werewolfgear.com will take you there.

[Sedona]

Yeah, wide variety of nice, colorful tips, too, which is pretty cool. All right, Dave.

[Sam]

Well, I appreciate it, man.

[Sedona]

Thank you so much for, for our conversation out in la. And thank you again for joining me here today. Always a pleasure. I love hanging out with you guys. So I look forward to seeing you at the next conference, I'm sure. And I look forward to seeing what you come out with in the future.

[Dave]

I appreciate, Sam, I appreciate your time. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure, my brother. Thank you so, so very much.

[Sedona]

All right, everybody, thanks for listening and all those links and more information will be in the show notes down below. If you like this, be sure to follow. Podcast is available on all the major podcast platforms. And stay tuned for the next episode. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you'd like to connect with me, you can do that through the contact form on my website, theblindlife.

[Dave]

Net.

[Sedona]

Thank you again and I will see you next time.