Corruption, Cancel Culture, and the Death of the Comedy Roast

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Clock It with Symone & Eugene

Episode: Corruption, Cancel Culture, and the Death of the Comedy Roast

Hosts: Symone Sanders Townsend & Eugene Daniels
Guest: W. Kamau Bell
Date: May 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the intersection of politics, culture, and comedy in 2026 America. Hosts Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels tackle hot-button issues: mounting concerns about Trump-era corruption and political grift, the evolving meaning (and myth) of “cancel culture,” the ethical dilemmas of black political power, and the role of comedy in turbulent times. Comedian and thought leader W. Kamau Bell joins to weigh in on Byron Allen’s assertion that comedy should be “apolitical,” the controversy over the Kevin Hart roast, and accountability in celebrity culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Disconnect Between D.C. and Everyday Voters

• Poll Insights:
  • Approval ratings for President Trump are dismal:
    • 37% on immigration (Quinnipiac), 61% disapproval on the Iran war.
    • Focus group audio reveals voters (e.g., “Debbie”) support Trump as “decisive” despite policies that harm them directly.
  • “Strong must mean good” — the hosts analyze how strength and effectiveness are conflated by voters.
    • Quote (Simone): “He has not done the things that he said he was gonna do. He said he was gonna lower prices on day one. He said no new wars. He done started a war. He did promise to be retribution though, and that seems to be going down.” (06:13)
  • Voter psychology: Hard to admit mistakes or harm caused by their own choices.
    • Eugene: “It is very difficult for us as human beings to say that we were wrong … that something we did, the impact of it harmed us and our families. That is difficult.” (06:45)

2. AI Regulation — Uniting Concern Across Divides

• Focus Group Finding: Voters, regardless of politics, want strong regulation on AI.
  • “Justice for Steve” – A focus group member’s call for a “Global AI Council” is supported, even by the Pope and the hosts.
  • Pope’s new encyclical calls for regulation:
    • Simone reads: “It’s necessary to establish adequate regulatory tools capable of upholding justice and curbing the distorting effects of technological power.” (10:35)
  • Anthropic’s CEO admits to risks; even AI models (Claude) call for regulation.

3. Corruption & Political Grift in the Trump Era

• Trump’s Financial Entanglements:
  • Federal ethics filings show >3,600 stock trades in one quarter by Trump or affiliates, often related to government decisions.
  • Simone (on ethics): “Federal ethics laws require the president to disclose stock trades in broad ranges. The White House referred notice’s questions about the trades to the Trump Organization, which said the president, his family, and the organization itself don’t play a role… So who does?” (19:02)
  • Past presidents avoided even appearances of impropriety (e.g., the Obamas denied refinancing their home).
  • Trump’s net worth and that of his family have soared during his presidency, while the average American struggles.
  • Contradiction: Republicans defensively ignore Trump’s grift but hammered Democrats over issues like Hunter Biden’s art.
    • Eugene: “You are not supposed to be making money off of the presidency. And yet here we are.” (21:04)
  • The “Jan 6 slush fund” outrage: Nearly $1.8B taxpayer dollars for insurrectionists, but “no money” for public needs.
  • Deep skepticism over a “settlement” that permanently bars the government from investigating Trump’s financials—likely unconstitutional and deeply worrying.
    • Quote (Simone): “They got into a room and they were like, we’ll do this. These motherfuckers will never figure it out. Okay? They’re making it up now.” (23:47)

4. Black Political Power and Voting Suppression

• Redistricting Battles:
  • Black political districts being carved up in the South (AL, GA, FL, SC), diluting Black voting power.
  • Congressional Black Caucus and NAACP: Call for boycotts of universities in states pushing voter suppression; threaten to block the SCORE Act—college sports legislation that would hurt student-athletes’ earnings.
  • “If the schools wanted something to be done, they could call up the legislature and get it done.” (32:29)
• Debate: Is it fair to expect 18-year-old student-athletes to take on civil rights fights?
  • The hosts highlight historical precedent where young people drove the Civil Rights movement.
  • Simone (compelling): “Young people were not treated as too inexperienced or uninformed to participate in democracy. They were often the moral force pushing the country to confront what older institutions were too comfortable tolerating that history matters now.” (35:53)
• Pushback: Many argue it’s unfair for students—focus should be on influential boosters and fans.

5. “Cancel Culture” Debunked & Ethics in Comedy (w/ W. Kamau Bell)

• Byron Allen’s View:
  • Rejects comedy that’s political, racist, or controversial, aiming for mass-market “safe” humor on “Comics Unleashed.” But Bell points out the hypocrisy—comedy has always been political:
    • Quote (Bell): “The idea that Byron is telling us that comedy should not be political is also denying his own history of being around comedy clubs and being around comedy… What it is telling you is where his political alliances align and who is filling up his pockets.” (49:20)
• Cancel Culture’s True Meaning:
  • Bell: “Cancel culture” is mostly the First Amendment working; real “victims” are Black and Indigenous people, not powerful stars.
    • Bell: “Most of cancel culture is just the First Amendment working correctly. You said this, I said that, you doubled down, I said that... The things that people were canceled for that they should have been canceled for were crimes or credible accusations of crimes.” (52:56)
    • Bell: “We can't talk about cancel culture in this country without talking about America's first victims of cancel culture: Black people.” (55:04)
  • Public “cancellations” rarely last — “canceled” stars often come back wealthier and more popular (e.g., Louis CK, Will Smith).
  • Eugene: “We are actually in an age where all press is good press in a way that it didn’t used to actually be true.” (70:04)

6. The Death of the Comedy Roast — Kevin Hart & George Floyd Joke

• Roast Outrage:
  • Kevin Hart’s Netflix roast marred by Tony Hinchcliffe’s George Floyd joke—general condemnation from Black comedians (D.L. Hughley, Lonnie Love, Lil Rel Howery, Kamau Bell).
  • Kevin Hart refused to condemn the joke or take responsibility.
    • Bell: “When D.L. Hughley has a problem with it, forget what I said… These are comedians who you don’t want to follow on stage, and they had problems with it.” (63:14)
  • Simone: “Kevin Hart is not responsible to us. Apparently, he is not responsible to black people in America who did not like the joke… But you are not entitled to not be criticized.” (65:42)
• Algorithmic Amplification:
  • Jokes or content are no longer contained within comedy club walls—they go global instantly, whether the audience “signed up” for roast humor or not.
    • Bell: “We live at a time where the algorithm and monoculture pushes us into everybody’s thing whether we want to or not.” (67:13)
• Celebrity Responsibility:
  • Should Black celebrities stay accountable to their communities or court mainstream (white) audiences?
    • Simone: “Some people just are who they are. And Kevin Hart is obviously in the camp of people who do not care about being for the community… But you are not entitled to not be criticized.” (65:53)
  • The divide is not new — O.J., Michael Jackson, etc., with diverging responsibilities.

7. Black Voters as the Democratic Base

• South Carolina Example:
  • Black voters (especially elders) remain the backbone of the Democratic Party.
  • Efforts to split up Black voting districts are direct attacks on Dem power and democracy.
  • Eugene: “Until y’ all replace old black people as the foundation and the actual base of the Democratic Party, if you do not have black voters, older black voters, it don’t matter about nothing else…” (41:23)
  • Both hosts underline that real organizing, not just social media, is key to preserving Black political influence.

8. The Role of Laughter (and Anger) in Challenging Injustice

• Final Thoughts:
  • W. Kamau Bell and the hosts encourage finding humor even in heavy times, but urge laughter not to replace outrage or accountability.
  • Simone: “Yes, you can laugh and you can care. I just, again, I am very vexed by people that do not show care or concern for any of the communities that they may be a part of.” (75:15)
  • Eugene: “Being funny and finding humor in things is... not divorced from being very smart and thoughtful about politics and the state of our world and the culture.” (74:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Voter Psychology and Accountability:

  • “It is very difficult for us as human beings to say that we were wrong... that the impact of it harmed us and our families. That is difficult.” - Eugene Daniels (06:45)
  • “You're trying to say struggle with being accountable. Humans struggle with accountability.” – Simone (07:40)

• On Political Grift:

  • “He’s made billions of dollars since he’s been president. A little over 400 some days... and his family, they’ve made billions of dollars, while the rest of America frankly is ... not doing well.” – Simone (20:23)

• On Comedy & Cancel Culture:

  • “The idea that Byron is telling us that comedy should not be political is also denying his own history... What it is telling you is where his political alliances align and who is filling up his pockets.” – W. Kamau Bell (49:20)
  • “We can't talk about cancel culture... without talking about America's first victims of cancel culture: Black people.” – Bell (55:04)

• On the Comedy Roast Outrage:

  • “Kevin Hart is not responsible to us. Apparently. He is not responsible to black people in America who did not like the joke. ... But you are not entitled to not be criticized.” – Simone (65:42)
  • “So we all hear about shows we don’t even want to see, just because the algorithm... So I think Kevin’s saying, the people who watched the roast knew what they were in for, is denying the fact that we live at a time where the algorithm and monoculture pushes us into everybody’s thing whether we want to or not.” – Bell (67:13)

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Timestamps: Important Segments

• D.C. vs. Public View of Trump & Voter Focus Groups – 01:23–09:18
• AI Regulation & Pope’s Encyclical – 09:18–12:25
• Corruption & Trump’s Stock Trades – 16:51–23:18
• Jan 6 “Slush Fund” & Settlement Outrage – 21:53–26:07
• Redistricting, CBC/NAACP Action & Student Athlete Debate – 29:18–37:08
• Cancel Culture vs. Real Consequences (with Kamau Bell) – 45:47–55:51
• Kevin Hart Roast/George Floyd Joke Debate – 60:28–70:50
• Celebrity Responsibility & Mainstream vs. Community Tension – 66:02–69:27
• Black Voters as Dem Base/Redistricting in SC – 39:02–42:37
• Final Reflections on Comedy, Politics & Community – 74:53–77:22

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Conclusion

This episode unflinchingly examines corruption’s creep into daily government, the slipperiness of “cancel culture,” and the complex expectations for Black celebrities, politicians, and comedians. Thoughtful, bracing, and witty—Symone, Eugene, and W. Kamau Bell provide both the critical analysis and cathartic humor needed for tough times. The show challenges listeners to care, laugh, and above all, demand more—from politicians, celebrities, and each other.

Transcript

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Greetings and welcome back to Clock It. Do you like the setups? Yes, I love

[Eugene Daniels]

it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Come on, it's giving. Longevity.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct. They had to paint this.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Come on, it's giving. Employed, Eugene.

[Eugene Daniels]

Always for nudes. Correct.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Greetings and welcome back, folks. This week we are noticing some, shall we say, differences right between the wisdom in Washington about what's going on and then what people outside of D.C. are thinking, particularly when it comes to the President. Eugene?

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, in D.C. what both of us have been hearing over and over and over again is that everyone should be able to see the harms of the Trump administration, that those harms are so obvious. And there is some data to support that. A New York Times Sienna poll reports his over approval rating is very low.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Very low.

[Eugene Daniels]

Get it buried. Is it very white?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Low?

[Eugene Daniels]

No. Oh, 36.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I didn't understand. I was like, I was like, where are we going with this one? That's okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

Low light bill.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

37.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct. 37% on his handling of immigration issues. A new Quinnipiac poll has him at 57% disapproval, which is usually his best numbers when it comes to immigration. On the war in Iran, he. He's at 61% disapproval.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Wait, 61% disapproval of the disapproval on the war. Oh, wow.

[Eugene Daniels]

The gas is whooping our asses. That's why.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Even to people that don't drive, apparently.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You know, it's so crazy. There's this thing called the Swing Voter Project. You must know about this. It is a collaboration between these two research firms and npr and they're actually out with some Focus group interviews. And the focus group interview is kind of crazy. Take a listen.

[Eugene Daniels]

He says he's going to do something, he does it, period. Whether you like it or not, he does it. That's why I feel like he's a strong president. Fix his mind. He don't hold his tongue.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Child. That is from a focus group last week. Now it's two groups of six North Carolinians, Eugene, who voted for Biden in 2020 and then Trump in 2024. That's important because there are these Obama Trump voters, people that voted for Obama in 2012, then Trump in 2016. And there are also Biden Trump voters. And they have thoughts.

[Eugene Daniels]

Here's some more. Because I feel like if things weren't going on right now the way they are with Iran, that our economy would start to even out a little better. I know everything feels like it's on the rise right now, but it's because everything is, because fuel is.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Debbie, hang on a second. Play devil's advocate with you. The Iran thing is going on. Why aren't you more anxious because it's going on as opposed to hoping that

[Eugene Daniels]

when it's over, it will be better? Explain that to me just so I

[W. Kamau Bell]

understand it, because I, I,

[Eugene Daniels]

I know there's a reason for it. Unlike with, with the other president, where it just kept going up and up

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

and up and up and up.

[Eugene Daniels]

There was no reasoning behind it. Where this is, there's a reason for it. So once this is settled, our economy will settle. We will be okay. Now, I just want to point out, Love, voter. Thank you. Debbie, however, also was the reason that gas was going up during the Biden administration. That was the war in Ukraine.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

So like that. So it's not just like gas just started going up. Presidents actually typically do not have that much control over oil prices. The United States is not a member of opec, which kind of handles all of the barrels of oil and works on that. But when you go to war and then the people that you are fighting a war with close the Strait and 20% of the oil can't get out, maybe then you are indeed partly to blame for the gas prices going up. Simone.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I mean, clock at Eugene is very important. Can I just note though, like, I know people will hear Debbie. They're gonna hear Debbie and be like, well, what's going on with Debbie? But Debbie, frankly is indicative of how a lot of people in this country are thinking. If you think back to we've all heard sound of people from the gas station. Some people who support the president. Some say, well, there must be a reason for this, because it's hard for regular folks in America to fathom that the President of the United States would be doing something that doesn't have rhyme or reason to. News flash, y'. All. That's how it happens, okay? It's just a bunch of people deciding what to get the whims of the president. And this president is a little, you know, he's a. They like to call it unconventional. I like to say a little insane with the actions.

[Eugene Daniels]

And I will say to Vicki too, like Vicki, the first one, the question is about a strong president versus a weak president. But the other question for me, and I think voters might answer this question a little differently, is, is this president effective? Are they a good president? Right. That is a different them. Strong, I think. But I spend a lot of time thinking about this. And voters have a lot of stuff going on. They have their own jobs, they have kids, the gas prices are higher, they're figuring out how to put food on the table. This is my full time job, so I can focus on it. So I understand why when they're looking at it, they're like, strong must mean good.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, strong must mean effective. Now, here's the thing for Vicki. Your point, Vicki, who said he does what he says he's going to do. I think it is really important for folks to connect the dots for the voters out there, frankly. I think this is what Democrats, if they're trying to win, should be doing quickly every single day between now and the general election and this November. The reality is he has not done the things that he said he was gonna do. He said he was gonna lower prices on day one. He said no new wars. He done started a war. He did promise to be retribution, though, and that seems to be going down.

[Eugene Daniels]

They work on that a lot. Simone. I mean, I think the thing that's so interesting when you talk to Trump voters, and this has been true forever, in 2018, when I was at Politico, I was on the video team, me and Mary Newman, the producer, we went to Iowa to a soybean farm. I think I've told you this story. And we talked to this farmer who was losing so much money, hundreds of thousands of dollars, because of the then trade war with China over soybeans. And I said, do you blame President Trump for this? What he said was the same exact thing that Debbie said, which is, I have to trust that it's gonna work out. And I think there's a human psychology aspect to this that we don't talk about enough in polit. Political coverage, which is that it is very difficult for us as human beings to say that we were wrong. Right? To say that something we did was wrong, something that we did, the impact of it harmed us and our families. That is difficult.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I don't think that's. That to me says that that's a lack of accountability. You're trying to say struggle with being accountable. Humans struggle with accountability.

[Eugene Daniels]

So you think now as someone who knows you and takes many a call now, I'm not going. We're not going to pretend in front of these people. Like accountability is simple for everybody now. Cause when we on the phone calls, don't we. Sometimes we have to check each other.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don't be mad.

[Eugene Daniels]

Don't you have to check me?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

You have to check me sometimes too. Well, Eugene, now that was a weird thing for you to do.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay? I don't think that's accountability. It's showing someone the error of their ways. You know how like you don't think sometimes on them phone calls is. I didn't see that perspective.

[Eugene Daniels]

Right.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So I didn't even know. And now I'm like, oh, you know what? When you say it like that. Yeah. So I think that the American people, particularly people who voted for Donald Trump this last time, they are struggling to see the other perspective. Maybe because they don't have all the data points. Maybe because they're the same. Yes. They're trying to make it make sense, for lack of a better term. Like Debbie is trying to. She's like, there must be a reason. And then shout out to Rich, who's like, well, hold on, Debbie, because the Ron war is going on right now. But again, I think these focus groups are. I love a focus group. When I used to be a consultant, I would always opt for the focus group over the polls because a focus group, I believe, is a very good snapshot of what voters or group of voters or type of folks are thinking. And so shout out to NPR and Rich and these firms for giving us a window into some of the voters in North Carolina.

[Eugene Daniels]

Because you can do a back and forth, right? A poll is just the question, right? Like the people see it and they answer, especially these online polls, even the phone calls, and they have a script they're reading from Rich can download. Like be like, well, hold on now. Let me test that theory. Now, one thing that the people in these focus groups were united on, they're concerned about AI and they want the government to regulate it. Listen to this.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I feel like this is something every

[Eugene Daniels]

country needs to get on board with the same regulations across the world. Be like, hey, have the freedom to develop with AI. But we, we all need to know there is a push red button in case of emergency.

[W. Kamau Bell]

That's going to work. Okay, how many of you are with Steve on that Global AI Council to regulate all of this globally? Show of fingers, who supports it?

[Eugene Daniels]

Oh, thanks, guys. Appreciate that. Justice for Steve. Yes, justice for Steve.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm with Steve. I support a global AI Council. Frankly, I support at least Congress doing something. But ain't nobody done nothing yet because they're letting these companies run rampant. But that's another story. The Pope also agrees with Steve on Monday. Now, Eugene, I know you're not Catholic, but I went to Catholic school. So the Pope put out this thing, thing called an encyclical, and it was his first one. And the encyclical is basically, it's an open letter to Catholics, but with the awareness that other people will read it, Right?

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes. Like me.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, you are the other people in this. In this, in this subtext. Well, in this particular encyclical. And remember, this is the new Pope. So it's his first encyclical. He gave this letter a tagline. Do you know what the tagline was?

[Eugene Daniels]

No, you tell me.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The tagline was on safeguarding the human person in the time of artificial intelligence. Okay, now, Pope Lee. Let me get it now, let me get it down. Quote, the gospel cannot overlook the concrete lives of people. And he said, it's necessary to establish adequate regulatory tools capable of upholding justice and curbing the distorting effects of technological power.

[Eugene Daniels]

Now, see, when the Pope says it, everybody listens. I've been saying this about AI for weeks and months. Y' all been ignoring me.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay, fine. Did you see the Oprah interview?

[Eugene Daniels]

Did you see the Oprah interview with anthropic CEOs?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

No. You need to send that to me, baby.

[Eugene Daniels]

This morning, I asked Claude what is the most pressing question Oprah Winfrey should ask Anthropic CEO Dariel Amadei in a sit down interview. And Claude responded with this. It said, you've said there's a meaningful chance the technology your company is building could cause human extinction, and yet you're racing to build it faster.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

How do you justify that to the

[Eugene Daniels]

rest of us who didn't get a vote? Basically, Claude was like, man, I got a question for him. Very interesting. Even Claude was like, somebody needs to regulate me. Please, Someone.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Claude. Claude is letting us know so you know what? Maybe you were right. Okay. Steve was right. The Pope is right. You know who else was right? New York. Okay, okay. New York, they were right about the Knicks. Okay? They just played the 10 best games. Now, I did hear this on the news last night.

[Eugene Daniels]

Not the news.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I did. I heard it on the news. I was up. You know, this was. We had a Memorial Day like cookout. We're really a cook in. Cause the grill is raining outside. The grill wasn't working and the news was on and they were talking about this like historic run, apparently that the Knicks were on. They just played like the best 10 games in NBA history. Okay. So if you go by the difference in points between them and then their other opponents, that's why, you know, the best 10 games in history.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And the NBA Finals, they start next week. Will you be watching?

[Eugene Daniels]

No, I will not. But you know, Jackie keeps saying Knicks Nation are my co anchor. And I'm like, what is she talking about? What is the.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Because they're winning. That's what Jackie's talking about.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yay for the Knicks.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Go Knicks.

[Eugene Daniels]

All that is in the backdrop. While people in Texas voted in primary runoffs this week. The biggest result not completely shocking, Ken Paxton defeating the four term incumbent, John Cornyn in Texas. Now, Trump had endorsed scandal plagued, is putting it lightly. And his team called the FBI on him like it's crazy.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And he had employed the mistress and he was. There's a lot, there's a lot.

[Eugene Daniels]

There's a lot to dig into. His victory is more evidence of Trump's sway, control, fight, grip over the Republican Party and at least primary voters. Now Paxton will run against James Talarico for a Senate seat in November.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You know, I am not surprised by Paxton's win and I'm gonna tell you why. Voters in Texas, like many voters across the country, have been talking about how they want change, something different. Okay, well, when you are an incumbent like John Corn, you do not scream change. But also, people forget, you know, we're really pointing out all the scandals with Ken Paxton and he got a lot of issues and some of it feels comical, like you gotta laugh crying. But he is a star in conservative circles because during the Biden administration, when I worked there in the first year, all of the LawsonU that were coming from Republican Attorney Generals, Ken Paxton was leading it.

[Eugene Daniels]

Child at the top of the list every time. Every single time.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Mm, mm, mm. Well, we'll be watching that race. James Talarico. We will see how this thing goes down. Okay, Eugene, let's move on. I feel like we need like a, a lighter moment. There's so much happening in the world. Yes. So comedian and host W. Kamau Bell will join the group chat in just a little bit. And you remember him right from his TN show, United Shades of America and his docu series, we need to talk about Cosby. Well, well, well. This week we need to talk about comedy. Is comedy political? Yes. I'm going back to what Byron Allen said. Is it bad if it is? Is it bad if it's not? Who gets to decide what is going on? These are. If you, your parent or spouse served

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

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It's go time. And at aaa, we're here for it. Here for front row seats and backyard barbecues. All in for the spontaneous and the well planned vacation for worry free commutes, awesome adventures and great escapes. From camping under the stars to four star hotels here where you need us most with the best roadside assistance like we have been for more than 120 years. Wherever your journey takes you, we're here to power it. Join [e-mail] aaa here for you.

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Have you or a family member been diagnosed with early stage non small cell lung cancer that can be removed by surgery? Consider talking to an oncologist about your treatment options. Why? Because knowing your options before you have surgery can help your care team develop a treatment plan that's right for you. Learn about a potential treatment plan before and after [e-mail] that's askbeforsurgery.com and talk to an oncologist before your surgery.

[Eugene Daniels]

Now we gonna get to some of the comedy with Mr. Do Now. But first, I would like to discuss the sheer, sheer enormous amount of money that President Trump and his family seem to be making while he is in office. Now, according to federal ethics filings, that means, y', all that he sent this to the government. He and his team sent this to the government. During the first quarter of 2026 alone, the President or someone on his behalf made more than 3,600 BI sell orders. Many of those orders involve companies that

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

are directly in that order.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's like, go buy this, sell that. It's very simple. It's exactly what it sound like. Now, many of the companies, Simone, are ones that are directly impacted by his decision as presidents. Here's, here's a Quick example. So the documents show that President Trump or somebody in his name bought as much as 5 million in Nvidia stock just before the AI chip maker got the go ahead to export processors to China.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, hold on. Now it's the government that made the decision about the go ahead. The Biden administration had blocked Nvidia from selling to China this particular kind of chip, and so the Trump administration reversed that decision.

[Eugene Daniels]

I think the thing that's so interesting, Vice President Vance was asked this when he did his press conference last week, and they asked him about it. He said, do you think the president is doing the pushing and pointing at things? No. However, someone is doing it in his name. And I think that is the thing that's so important. If you talk to ethics czars and experts from any other administration, what they would tell you that Obama and his wife, during their first term, I think, wanted to put a second mortgage on their house.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh, yeah. They wanted to refinance.

[Eugene Daniels]

They wanted to refinance their house. See, and what did they tell them?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Norm, Norm, no, he was the ethics czar child.

[Eugene Daniels]

He was like, you cannot do that. So even that was something that other presidents wouldn't do. And yet President Trump or someone in his name is buying and selling. And all of the decisions these folks look at are being made by a government that he runs. There's a lot of questions about that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I have a lot of questions. I'm looking at the child, I'm looking at the research. Like, what is going on here? It's very concerning federal ethics law. This is from notice. Okay. From notice they wrote. Federal ethics laws require the president to disclose stock trades in broad ranges. Now, the White House referred notices, questions about the trades to the Trump Organization, which said the president, his family, and the organization itself don't play a role in the investments and don't receive notice of trading activity. A spokesperson said in a statement. So who does? Is the investor on the email chain? Is somebody telling the investor, like, the most recent news? And then the investor is taking the news and then going and saying, okay, this about to happen. This is what we need to buy. How is it going down? This seems like something Congress should investigate.

[Eugene Daniels]

Jimmy Carter put his peanut farm in a blind crust because he was so worried about the idea that someone would think that something improper would happen. Right. And so for folks who are like, well, who cares? Well, no, it does matter, because while Republicans like to remind us that Donald J. Trump is not taking a presidential salary, I think it's like 400, 400400 something thousand dollars. He's not taking the salary. But all these trades are happening. More trades in all of Congress.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, he's made billions of dollars since he's been president. A little over 400 some days. It's been 400 some days since Donald Trump has been president. The second time he has made billions of dollars. That's crazy. And his family, they've made billions of dollars while the rest of America frankly is. Well, unless you're wealthy. Wealthy people in America are doing very well right now.

[Eugene Daniels]

They're doing great.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

But most people in this country, okay, who are not like in the trades and in the stock market. Right. They are not doing well. I don't think you should be getting rich off the people. Isn't that one of the issues that people have with members of Congress and people in the government? It's like, oh, they go into government and they getting rich off us. That's what the president is doing.

[Eugene Daniels]

And what's so interesting is these are also the same, a lot of these Republicans now who are like defending this mealy mouthed about it and not JD Vance for one of them. These are people who had a lot of problems with Hunter Biden's little paintings. Right. Which I did too. Very weird. Lots of questions, but like you are not supposed to be making money off of the presidency. And yet here we are.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The president and his children are making money off the presidency. It's very contagious.

[Eugene Daniels]

And his son in law, according to the.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh yes, yes, yes. Can't forget about Jared Kushner, you know, the non government employee that is apparently negotiating peace in the Middle East. See how that's going? The straight of Hormuz is still closed, but Jared Kushner's gonna get it open. Can I just note that this, this dovetails with that. I call it payouts to the president's own personal militia that you get.

[Eugene Daniels]

Some people call it a slush fund.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Shout out to Jamie Raskin, slush fund. I just feel like this is in the same vein of that Again. The government says that they don't have any money for Medicare, Medicaid, they don't have any money for snap, don't have any money for npr, pbs. Again, what did Elmo do? Obamacare, subsidies, right. Childcare. Trump said, we just can't pay for that. Okay, no money for housing. But we have nearly $1.8 billion of government funds, our taxpayer dollars to give out to the January Sixers. It's given grift, it's given, you got money for wars. We can't feed the poor.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's still not super clear. How did this quote, unquote, as some people have been calling it, a settlement, which is not a settlement because you have to have adverse parties. The lawsuit was questionable to begin with, and yet.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And it was dropped. To be very clear, the lawsuit was. I don't want people to miss what you're saying. Cause the lawsuit was dropped. The government, Trump withdrew the lawsuit when a judge was about to basically rule and say, this is insane.

[Eugene Daniels]

Judge, right. You can't sue yourself.

[W. Kamau Bell]

You can't sue yourself.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I didn't like, you can't sue yourself. It doesn't even make sense. But, yeah, he tried. And then when he withdrew the lawsuit, then the government came up with this little scheme. And then they said, you know what we'll do? We'll call it a settlement. We'll do this. Da, da, da, da. And the people just ate it up. I saw headline after headline after headline. Still have seen headline after headline about. About how this is a settlement. And there's questions about the legality. There's nothing that says it's legal. Where is it legal? They're gaslighting us. They're literally making it up. And now we're all, as Michael Steele would say, doing the backstroke, okay? Trying to make it make sense. It don't make no sense. There's no rhyme or reason here. The government made it up. They got into a room and they were like, we'll do this. These motherfuckers will never figure it out. Okay? They're making it up now.

[Eugene Daniels]

In addition to all of this, the DOJ added a little one pager to this whole thing. It says the federal government is barred forever. Forever barred forever in perpetuity, forever. From looking into Trump's tax filings and his sons and the Trump Organization.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I again, made it up.

[Eugene Daniels]

Like, made it also. So I asked Liz Oyer on the weekend, just this past weekend, I said,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Liz Oyer was the. For people who don't know, was the United States pardon attorney until she got fired.

[Eugene Daniels]

There's a lawsuit. Listen to what Liz said about whether or not a new administration can be like, we don't care about that. Legally binding. Let's say, you know, Chris Murphy, or AOC, becomes president in 2029. Why couldn't their DOJ actually just ignore that?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, has legal authority to bind the United States. United States. He's binding the entire country as our acting attorney general. And that would. That would mean that the next president, the next Attorney General, they would be limited by what Todd Blanche agreed to in this settlement agreement, which is one of the things that's so egregious about it. I mean, Glenn mentioned that Donald Trump is not getting any money. That's true. But the value of that waiver of the United States right to audit him, to investigate him, or to sue him, I mean, that's worth potentially billions of dollars.

[Eugene Daniels]

All the crypto and all the stuff that him and his family are operating in. Lots of questions.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm with J Part crimey.

[Eugene Daniels]

I just, I mean, Simone, it is.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Wait, I'm confused.

[Eugene Daniels]

So you're not confused. You're very clear eyed. I think you're one of the most clear eyed people in the media on this. You have been calling it a grift from the very beginning, even though it's

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

a grift, even though they are literally making it up. Todd Blanche, who ain't even the real Attorney General, he's just a stand in Attorney General. That's what acting means, folks. He's just a play ag until they find the real. And it might not even be him if he don't get it together. So the acting Attorney General can just say, oh, we're not gonna audit, like no more audits ever. On what basis? This is what I don't understand. How is it legally binding? There's no settlement. I, at this point, I'm looking for the settlement. I don't see it.

[Eugene Daniels]

Is it in there? Is it under the table?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The settlement is not with us because it doesn't exist. There wasn't even a ca. Like, I am about to vex. My lash is about to fall out. I'm vexed about this because this is how they run away with the whole store, okay? As the old folks would say when they do these things right out in the open, slap some fancy language on top of it and present it to the people and then dare you to question them and then move forward. We are acting as though that these are rational people operating within the bounds of the law and the Constitution. And they have shown us every single day since January 20, 2025 that that ain't them.

[Eugene Daniels]

And I think what is so frustrating about this or something that I am thinking about a lot, Simone, is that, you know, the American people, people in general can like turn a blind eye to a lot of things, right? Like first term people were always like, the emoluments clause. He's making money off the presidency. They're staying in the little. They're staying in the Trump hotel. In D.C. and the emoluments clause from the Constitution, I think people were easily able to not look at that and not really care about that kind of grift, that kind of alleged corruption because things were better for them. And I think now, as things are worse for them, there are people who have talked to our Alex Tabitt at gas stations who are tying those two things together. They're saying, you have money for these insurrectionists. You pardoned them, now you want to give them our taxpayer money. And yet there's this $1.776 billion fund that they just created that was created after Donald Trump sued the IRS for $10 billion, which is bears repeating every single time.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It just vexes me so much. But don't take it from us, folks. Listen to the people. Let's actually play the sound from Alex Tabitt. He was in Georgia on Thursday, May 21st. Eugene. And this is an interview with Arthur Woods. Now, Mr. Woods is 71 years old, and in 2024, he voted for Kamala. Take a listen.

[W. Kamau Bell]

It's impacted me tremendously, as you noted. As you said, I do ride share. And last year, Phillip for me was $35. This year it's $64. Every day there's some type of additional costs. Creeping, creeping, you know, creeping up. And now they're talking about this

[Eugene Daniels]

weaponization

[W. Kamau Bell]

fund, the giving money away. Giving money away, you know, because in my mind, January 6th, that should have been a dead issue. In other words, we resolved that they were found guilty. Why would we give them some kind of fund to help them along when other Americans are starving and other Americans are going through the cost of living the way they are?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, clock it, Mr. Arthur. Clock.

[Eugene Daniels]

It seems very clear there, very clear that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Let's move on.

[Eugene Daniels]

My blood pressure's high. It's too much.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Let's move on. Okay. I don't know if you saw Eugene, but this weekend I wrote an op ed for msnow about the two ways that political organizations are pushing back against the redistricting that we've been talking about that's going on in the south in places like. Or attempting to go on in places like Alabama. Georgia said they might be looking at it. Mississippi said they might be looking at it. It happened in Florida and of course, South Carolina. These state legislatures are just redrawing the congressional maps and they're stripping power away. They're literally diluting the power of black voters. Not just about black representation, it's about black voters.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So the Congressional Black Caucus, they came out and they said that Its members would not be voting for the SCORE Act. Now.

[Eugene Daniels]

Now what's the SCORE Act?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Jamil Hill went on her live stream Spolitics. And she did so right after she watched the Congressional Black Caucuses press conference. Let me just tell you, she explained it so well. Just take a listen, folks. Basically these college administrators and power brokers who have come together to quote, save college sports. Save college sports. Meaning that they would like to cap the earnings that these athletes are making. They would like to stop the, the number of lawsuits they're facing from athletes over eligibility, over compensation, because a few have been settled, but there were many more that were on the table. So they're trying to stop getting their ass kicked in court. That is a piece of legislation that the NCAA wants very badly. Okay, well, the same day that the CBC came out against the SCORE act and to be clear, there's 60 members of the Congressional Black Caucus, so they can hold up legislation if you need Democratic. That same day, the NAACP also popped out. They put out a call for athletes, families, boosters, fans, to boycott universities in the south where the legislatures are doing this. And this has become a huge topic of conversation in the streets. Now. My iPad, let me just grab it, child, because I put it. I pulled up on my.

[Eugene Daniels]

Very good.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now my op ed argues that I think that the CBC and the naacp, like I'm glad that they're trying to make silence expensive. They are asking the people, that's what's happening. They're just not asking the universities to find a conscience or be benevolent or care about democracy. They're gonna hit them in their pockets where it hurts. And I don't think it's crazy. Matter of fact, I think it's smart for the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus to encourage people and say, hey, look, look, you built these programs, programs, frankly, many of them who are built off the backs of black people. You built these programs. Come on and use your power to make them hear you.

[Eugene Daniels]

So I'm gonna read some of you to you.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah. Cause I don't like to quote myself.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah, I know. She's shot. She's not doing it. I'mma do it for her. Quote. In the south especially, college football is not just entertainment. It is culture, money, political influence and state identity rolled into one. Governors campaign on the sidelines. State legislature protect these programs like state assets and entire economies orbit around them.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And so if the schools wanted something to be done, they could call up the legislature and get it done.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah, let's play this what we call in the podcast business now, we got these setups, a waterfall from people talking about the kinds of conversation around this. Let's play that. My main mission at that age was trying to get to the NFL. I think it's really, these are real issues that need to be addressed. But I think it's difficult for me to push on these 18 year olds, these 19 year olds, like what Master P said with his son, his son at first went to a hbcu. But the facilities, you know, the training facilities, the healing facilities to make sure that the players can actually rehab better, are better at PWIs. That's a lot to ask a kid, you know, for these are grown up problems.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The same governor who signs off on maps designed to silence black communities will be one of the first ones to show up on their state college's field to celebrate when black athletes win them a championship. If star black athletes are not playing, why would fans come?

[Eugene Daniels]

What are these adults going to do?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Are you still going to go buy tickets?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Are you still going to go buy apparel?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Are you still going to show up at the stadium?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Wow.

[Eugene Daniels]

So that tells you like what the conversation is. There are people on there saying it's a lot to put on the student athletes. I am with them on that. I think the student athlete question is a big one. I was a full, I know the nail polish is confusing nowadays, but I played College Football, Division 1. I went to high school and graduated high school in Texas, played football in Texas. So I understand both of these, both aspects of this conversation, which is the southern part and the college athlete part. I think it is a lot to

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

ask why, why is it hard?

[Eugene Daniels]

Because a lot of these students for

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

the stars, not, not just, you know, Timmy just barely gonna make the team, but the folks that are commanding millions of dollars. 80 something.

[Eugene Daniels]

But for the 80 something people who get full ride scholarships, who then go on baby, get some more money. Absolutely. But I think that asking them, these kids who are using this as an opportunity, many of them, to pull themselves and their families out of poverty, I just feel like that connection is too difficult to make now. I do think the boosters and the fans and asking them, that's different. Right. I think that's a different conversation. I think the student athletes, it might be too much and it does appear that there are a bunch of folks who seem to be on that side as well.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's literally the main piece of pushback to this that I've heard.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And my take, I'mma just read a little more from my op ed, conservatives predictably attacked the moves, casting student athletes as pawns in a political game, arguing that athletes would rather get a paycheck than stand in solidarity, or just mocking the idea of playing somewhere other than a big Southern college. But young people have always been central to movements for democratic change in this country. During the civil rights movement, students and children marched, sat at lunch counters, filled jails, and faced police dogs, fire hoses, and violence in the streets of the South. Young people were not treated as too inexperienced or too uninformed to participate in democracy. They were often the moral force pushing the country to confront what older institutions were too comfortable tolerating that history matters now. So I hear the people. Okay. Now, I'm not. Again, I'm not saying that. Little tips. Okay. Or Josiah or Kevin. Okay. I'm not sure.

[Eugene Daniels]

Can we get a black name, please?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

These are black names. What do you mean? Timmy. Lil.

[Eugene Daniels]

Timmy. Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Jamal.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay, thank you. Cause no one was thinking black when you said Lil.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Timmy. Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

Or Josiah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

I love that name.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Darnell. Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not suggesting any of those folks who. This is their only shot, Right?

[Eugene Daniels]

Right.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not suggesting that they throw away their future, you know, to stand in solidarity and right side of history. But I am suggesting that the people with the power. Yes, okay. To be very clear, because of rules that the students and folks like Condoleezza Rice pushed for, frankly, the NCAA made changes. And these student athletes, many of them are making thousands to millions of dollars right now. So I am saying those people should use their. Those people should use their. Their standing to at least make a request. Y' all ain't even gonna make a request. Y' all about to let them carve up black districts and dilute black political power without even just asking nicely. It's insane. And if people think that they are exempt because they like you while you dribbling a basketball, they like you while you're throwing the ball on the field, you are sorely, sorely mistaken.

[Eugene Daniels]

You know what's so interesting is I think when I talk to young people, and I think this is. And you do this a lot, too. I know you talk to a lot of young folks in college, high school, middle. You have a young child yourself. The idea that politics is either the best or even one of the best ways to fight and have power in this country is one that sometimes they don't seem interested in. They see that politics has not worked. Right? That it has not worked for them. It hasn't worked for people that look like them. So I do wonder if that is part of this. Them kids gonna hear that like, ma', am, now y' all need to do it. Y' all in Congress. I'm not like, politics doesn't actually work. So I like. It is so interesting the conversations young people have about whether politics is a useful endeavor, is using their power politically. Is it something they should be doing? I'm not. I think they should.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

But if interesting in line at the airport for hours. Not a couple months ago, you don't do politics. But you missed your flight because of the politics that's going on in Washington, D.C. you don't do politics, but all of a sudden you can't vote because you don't got the right documentation because of the politics going on in Washington, D.C. you don't do politics. But the scholarships that made it possible for you to attend the school you attend no longer exist because the government said, that's dei. You don't do politics. But you wondering what happened to the Upward Bound program that you participated in last year that got you on a college campus and you was hoping to go back this year? Well, the Department of Education said, that's dei, so we got rid of it. You don't do politics. Okay. And you wondering why you used to get free and reduced school lunch and all of a sudden now you don't qualify anymore. You don't do politics. But your mama's snap got cut in half. Shall I go on? It's all political. Let me jump off my soapbox.

[Eugene Daniels]

You ate that. As the kids say. As the kids say. Meanwhile, in South Kakalaki on Tuesday, Republicans in the Senate broke with the White House House. Now, this is something we have been following a lot. Early voting in the state's primary started that morning, so thousands of votes had already been cast by the time legislators realized there wasn't enough support to push through. This new map is a map that would have eliminated the only Democrat and also the only black representation in the state, James Clyburn's district. The implication is, since the not previously passed the highest, the Senate will start debating it again after the primary. So it seems like legally it will not impact the 2026 midterms.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, and that's because the people spoke up. I wanna be really clear if speaking up matters. And it's also because the Democrats in the state House in South Carolina did not go quietly into the night. Okay. And they allied with some Republicans who weren't willing to go quietly into the night. And so representation does matter. Speaking up does matter who were protesting outside of the state house. They matter. I really think that all of that came to a head and I'm glad that this failed for now. But, you know, we don't know what's to come in the future. You're on your way to do some reporting in South Carolina, aren't you, Eugene? You gonna find out.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm gonna find out. I'm headed to South Carolina. By the time this airs, I would have already been there. I'm gonna do a sit down exclusive with Jim Clyburn to talk about this issue. To talk about South Carolina power. To talk about South Carolina power in the primary for Democrats in 2028. Black political power on both sides of the aisle. I'm really excited for that conversation because I think that, you know, one, I'm a child of South Carolina. Both my parents are from there. And so in.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm an honorary South Carolina.

[Eugene Daniels]

Exactly.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

My husband is from South Carolina.

[Eugene Daniels]

But what I knew and what I still know is that in South Carolina that black, black, old black people are still the base. They are the ones that move it. And frankly, if you cannot win black voters on the Democratic side, it don't matter about nothing else. Because until old black people are overtaken as the base and foundation of the Democratic Party.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Can you say that again? Can you say that again?

[Eugene Daniels]

Until y' all replace old black people as the foundation and the actual base of the Democratic Party, if you do not have black voters, older black voters, it don't matter about nothing that's going on on Twitter. I don't care what the hell they saying on TikTok.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So thank you because you better get out there and knock a door. You better get out there and talk to a voter at the fish fry. Come on. Beauty shops and Bible studies.

[Eugene Daniels]

Hello.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You better talk to some real people because this idea that you can win an election on the Internet is. Well, you can ask some people that lost their primaries about that.

[Eugene Daniels]

I was gonna say you can ask a lot of people who have never been president.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, to be clear, that's why they are coming for this right here. That's why there's an attack on these districts. That's why they're trying to carve them up and cut them up. Because they understand the power that black voters have. And it's older black voters. But these not so older black voters, the mid millennials like us, they are

[Eugene Daniels]

politically, honestly, at this point, we're older black voters to the youngins.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I guess. So I guess we are older black voters. Chat. Let me Just let me get my sweet tea.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And my caftan.

[Eugene Daniels]

Exactly. Your word is original out the bottom of the purse.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So it is. This is not abstract and it affects us all. And I just. You don't need to be a political professional to tap in and just ask a couple questions. I'm just encouraging people to ask questions. You know what I'm saying?

[Eugene Daniels]

They got demand or two.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah, make a demand or two. Okay? Y' all got. Y' all people stay demanding. You know, the Act 3 from Beyonce, they stay demanding. A new album from Breonna. People stay demanding. You know, now the people on the Internet is demanding that Patrick Ty give Esther her flowers. Child. They stay demanding all kind of other things. Why we can't make some demands about democracy. That's okay. When we back in chains and people at the gulag.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm just saying take us to take a break.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We gonna take a break here. Okay. Cause Eugene's like, I'm not trying to get tired or canceled.

[Eugene Daniels]

Take us a break.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We're gonna talk about canceling in a second. We're gonna meet you on the other side with comedian and writer W. Kamau Bell. And I am asking him about Byron Allen saying comedy shouldn't be political. Okay. You don't want to miss our conversation.

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[Eugene Daniels]

It's fair to say Stouffer's has achieved the impossible. Their easy, delicious dinners release you from the eternal time loop of meal prep, cooking and dinner dishes. No longer will you rack your brain wondering what's for dinner because you'll always have your favorite meals like Stuffed peppers, chicken pesto, Mac and cheese and more, ready to satisfy. So when the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. See all the great [e-mail] and add them to your cart today. Welcome back to the group Cat. Joining joining us now is comedian, New York Times bestselling author and celebrity Jeopardy Champion. That's the most important part w Kamau Bell. He also is a longtime broadcast podcast host. His new podcast, who's With Me? Launched this week. Sir, congratulations. Welcome to podcasting again and welcome to the group chat.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Thanks for having me and welcome.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Welcome.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I hope you enjoy my ACLU commercials.

[Eugene Daniels]

That's what Simone has been talking about endlessly.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Cause you know, I watch, you know, the all black soap opera on cbs. Yes, yes, yes. You know, I'm into it, child. I watch while I do my nails and everything. And every, literally every other commercial is you for the ACLU. And I'm like, the ACLU's budget must be big or you care a lot about the community. Either way, I love to see it.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yes, I care a lot about the community. I have not made a dollar off those commercials. I think it'd be weird if I had, but yeah, I kind of WISH they were McDonald's commercial.

[Eugene Daniels]

Now.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Did you see the Byron Allen interview?

[W. Kamau Bell]

I didn't know there was one.

[Eugene Daniels]

Is there a, the, a recent one for Simone?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

There's a couple of them. There's a couple of them.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I mean, I did Comics Unleashed back in the day, so I have lots of opinions about it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You did? Okay. Okay.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So I mean every comic had the opportunity to do it. That is a meat grinder of a television show. So it's. No, I'm not bragging.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, you know, Comics Unleashed has now replaced the Colbert show spot. So that is what is now airing. And Byron Allen again, who is the billionaire who owns the media company, who's doing a lot of, you know, buying up a lot of things. You know, he just bought BuzzFeed, right. And he produces and I guess stars in Comics Unleashed. And he is paying CBS to have this show on in Colbert's spot. He has had a lot to say about comedy w. Kamau Bell. And I feel like, like you have thoughts about this. I just want everyone to hear this NPR interview that he did. This was on Friday, May 22. Ailsa Chang interviewed Byron Allen last week and I'mma just play it for you.

[Eugene Daniels]

We do this show with nothing but comedians.

[W. Kamau Bell]

They don't plug anything, they don't do anything political.

[Eugene Daniels]

Cuz I said 20 years ago, 20 years ago. Don't do anything political. Don't do anything racist, sexist, any of that. Right. 20 years ago, now.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right, right, right. But I'm gonna jump in because I have a question about that. You don't want to do anything political. So my question to you is, I

[Eugene Daniels]

gotta answer the question.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, but I really want to stay on this, Byron.

[Eugene Daniels]

But I'm.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Give me a chance.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I really want to ask a question about the political part because I want

[Medical Advertisement Announcer]

to know, do you think you got this slot from cbs, which is owned by Paramount, because you have said all along that the comedy on your show is not going to be political, it's not going to be controversial, it's not going to go after some say President Trump. Do you think that's why your offer was appealing in part to CBS and Paramount? Because you have been maintaining that your comedy is not gonna punch anyone all that hard?

[Eugene Daniels]

Absolutely not. He's like, do not get me in trouble. But how about this? Should comedy be political?

[W. Kamau Bell]

I'm not worried about getting in trouble with Byron Allen, believe me. I'm just trying to figure out, I mean, first of all, I'm trying to figure out which version of ChatGPT wrote whatever he just said, so. Well, so Byron Allen's been around for a long time. First of all, I don't know if, you know, he's basically a nepo baby. His mom was an executive at NBC back in the day and he was like a young comedian who, because his mom had ties in the industry, he was babysat by like Jimmy Walker and like, I mean, he was around.

[Eugene Daniels]

Oh, wow.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah, certainly was around.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm here for black nepotism.

[W. Kamau Bell]

No, me too. I'm raising three black nepo babies right now. My three mixed daughters. I'm trying to.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. My sister in law is a black nepo baby. Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm just trying to say he didn't

[W. Kamau Bell]

come out of nowhere is all I'm trying to say. So he's been around the industry a long time. But I also think that means he came up around Richard Pryor. Definitely knows who Richard Pryor is. Probably knew it. I mean, I'm sure hung out with him. So the idea that Byron is telling us that comedy should not be political is also denying his own history of being around comedy clubs and being around comedy. And what it is telling you is where his political alliances align and who is filling up his pockets. And let's be clear, Byron Allen didn't replace the Colbert show. He bought the airtime after. Well, it's basically infomercials, which used to run at 2 in the morning are now slowly moving up closer and closer to prime time. And so that's what that is. To give him credit, he found a very successful business model and he sort of ended up being a billionaire because he bought that TV time at 2 in the morning and he's got so much money now that he can buy it at 11:30 at night. But this has nothing to do with comedy. And every comic who has done that show will tell you that that show is not a representation of what comedy should be. It's fine for what it is, but it is not in any way an avatar for what we should be doing when we do comedy.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I appreciate the truth telling. Can I just say that because there's been a lot of interviews that. And you know what? No shade on Byron Allen. You know, I know him.

[Eugene Daniels]

I like there's a lot of shade on Byron Allen. Ms. Fander.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Sally. I just feel like people should keep it 100. How can he be out here doing all of these interviews where he's saying comedy isn't political and people are just like, I'm glad he's buying. I just feel like just because somebody is from the community, it does not mean that they should be without criticism.

[Eugene Daniels]

When he says that comedy shouldn't be political, that sounds like a certain someone may want to hear that. Certain someones may want to hear something like that. Maybe people who run Paramount. And I think there's this question about like kind of cancel culture and people not being able to say things as if the left is exactly you just recently, I think wrote a piece and it looks these four comedians that were quote unquote, canceled. Hope if you can't see me, I am doing air quotes. But they all popped back up in 2026. So talk a little bit about that because I think that's important for people to remember that this cancel culture BS that they've been tiptoeing around for a long time was BS the whole time.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, I just want to go back just to the buyer now thing for a little bit. I think when you look at a person and one of their stated goals is wealth, and especially when it's a black person and one of their stated goals is wealth, especially when they start saying the B word. I want to be a billionaire, that is automatically letting you know, I'm going to leave a lot of y' all behind in more than one way. I'm just trying to say and they're telling you, like, a lot of the community struggles I'm going to leave behind

[Eugene Daniels]

unless I say those. I'm going to make sure we look good. I'm going to bring black people with me. I'm going to hire all black staff. That is a very good, good point.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And I would also say attached to that, and I'm not, if you want to be a billionaire, that's fine. But I think that's just. We've seen it before. And I would also say attached to that is the idea that, like, when Byron Allen is talking about being rich, he starts we. And it's not we. It's not we. The community does not become wealthier. It's that old Chris Rock joke about, like, when O.J. got off, we won. We won. And he was like, where's my O.J. check? You know? So if Byron Allen wants to send me a stipend every month, then I'll say we. I will say we, and I'll be happy. But he's not. You know, he's not go book me on Comics Unleashed because I'm too political. And I would say that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, he. On them ACLU ads, child canceled out. Talk about cancel culture.

[W. Kamau Bell]

They fly me in coach for those ads. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I think that there's a lot made about cancel culture, when, in fact, most of cancel culture is just the First Amendment working correctly. You said this, I said that. You said this. You doubled down on this, I said that, you said this. A lot of people disagreed. And a lot of the times the things that people were canceled for that they should have been canceled for were crimes or credible accusations of crimes. But now that Donald Trump is in office, and he does have, as my shirt says, my mahogany mommy shirt says he does have 34 felony convictions.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So, yes, he does.

[W. Kamau Bell]

There's that part. So once we decide that that person has the moral fiber to be the president that lets all these other canceled people go, I'm back, baby. All these other people who were in hiding. Louis CK Has a Netflix special coming out. He sort of said, I'm gonna go away for a while. And going away for a while ended up being less than a year. And he was back on the road, and he's been back on the road ever since. And according to everything I know, he's never made amends. He's not done anything for those individuals to say, I'm sorry I harmed you. Let me atone for what I. And now, because time, we love to think that Somebody we love an underdog story. So then he becomes an underdog culturally instead of somebody who was shunned culturally. And it's like, so people get to go, he's back. Yay. He was an underdog and now he's back on top headlining Madison Square Garden without the idea of being like, yeah, but he did those things and he's not atoned for them.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

My issue with the people that have an issue with quote, unquote, cancel culture is that I believe that everybody has the right to say whatever it is that you, you know, like, even the racist got the right to be racist. I agree. You know, okay, exactly. You can say whatever you want to say, but you are not free from consequences. I think it always goes back to accountability. The First Amendment don't say you can't get in trouble for what you say. It just says you have the right to say it.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And we can't talk about cancel culture in this country without talking about America's first victims of cancel culture. Black people.

[Eugene Daniels]

Hello. Say more. Say more, sir. Say more on that for the people in the.

[W. Kamau Bell]

If we're gonna talk about the idea of being canceled for that cancel culture is the idea that you get canceled for doing nothing or you get canceled for living your life. So then let's incorporate Emmett Till into cancel culture. Let's incorporate. Let's incorporate George Floyd into cancel culture. If we're gonna talk about the idea of America turning its back on someone for just living their lives, then we have to talk about the history of this country and how this country has treated the most oppressed groups. So the idea that cancel culture is something that only affects the rich and the powerful, well, we hear about them because they have the money to fight back and they have the loudest public microphones. So if we're gonna talk about cancel culture, let's talk about how this country was built on canceling. And cancel is my fancy word for genocide of the Native Americans. If we're gonna talk about this country

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

and you know, this is why he on the ACLU ad. This is what I'm saying. Okay. This is what I'm saying.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay, guys, we're gonna take a break right here, but when we get back, more from W. Kamau, Bell and us.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes,

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[Eugene Daniels]

It's fair to say Stouffer's has achieved the impossible. Their easy, delicious dinners release you from the eternal time loop of meal prep, cooking, and dishes. No longer will you rack your brain wondering what's for dinner because you'll always have your favorite meals like stuffed peppers, chicken pesto, Mac and cheese, and more ready to satisfy. So when the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. See all the great [e-mail] and add them to your cart today. You know, one of the things for, I think for people who know you, and I assume people listen to this podcast do, is that you are one of those thought leaders, comedians, that has always been political, Right. It is at the center of the kind of work that you do. And it strikes me, as we're talking about, like, whether or not comedy should be political, whether or not celebrities should be political. Is black celebrities. Black comedians tend to lean into that. Right? Like, tend to feel either the compunction to do so, feel a responsibility to do so. And for you, as you're like, putting things together, whether it's a. A special or the podcast that you're working on, how do you think about the importance of putting politics in the center of everything?

[W. Kamau Bell]

I mean, it's funny. People often think I was some sort of, like, political science professor who's like, how do I get the message to the people?

[Eugene Daniels]

It's the hair.

[W. Kamau Bell]

It's the hair. Yeah, well, especially now when he went full gray.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I'm in my young Cornel west era.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'll definitely play him in the biopic.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Exactly. Or Questlove's dad era. Whichever way, do it. But here's the thing. I wanted to do comedy. Cause I saw Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live. That's why I wanted to do comedy. I wanted to do comedy because I saw a Comedian named Bill Cosby. Do Bill Cosby himself. And then I saw the Cosby show and I saw. I was like. And so for me, comedy was always a thing that was smart, intelligent. And then as I got older, Cause I came from a house, I had one thing called a black mom.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Very familiar, very familiar.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And she was single, and so she just took me a lot of places. I'm an only child, so I heard a lot of grown up discussions about what was going on in the world from a very early age. And I was an only child. And then at some point you come across like, you know, because there's the two sides of Richard Pryor. This is a very serious and fun side and sort of ridiculous. And the other side of the guy who's like, look, people, we need to figure this out. Racism is a problem and we need to speak directly to it. And I think I sort of was always attracted to that side of things. And then you'd come across like, Dick Gregory. Like, I read Dick Gregory's books, book. And so that was just where I got pulled. Because I came from a household that was fresh out of the civil rights movement. My mom was like, there for all of it. She did every part of the civil rights movement. She was almost in the Nation of Islam. She was always. She marched, she did all the things she treated the civil rights movement. So I just sort of grew up knowing that, like, you have two jobs as a black person. You got the job to, like, provide for your family, and you got the job to try to set your people free in any way you can. And I wish I didn't feel that other job as much as I do, because it would be easy to show up at the Kevin Hart roast and just make fun of everybody.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm glad you mentioned it. Okay, can we talk about the Kevin Hart roast? What did you think about it?

[W. Kamau Bell]

I mean, I wrote about it on Substack, if you go. And I posted an excerpt on my Instagram if you go there. A lot of the people who are fans of Tony Heathcliff and those types of jokes, I've never been called the N word so much in such a short period of time. So I would say this. The Kevin Hart roast has made very clear, clear that as much as we want to say free speech is free and you can say whatever you want to, some people are in it for the racism and the hate.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You've done good though, Kevin. The black community is so proud of you. Right now. George Floyd is looking up at us

[W. Kamau Bell]

all laughing so hard that he can't breathe. And so if you go to my Instagram page, I'm being called all sorts of gay slurs. I'm being called all sorts of.

[Eugene Daniels]

How you get called gay slur that wild.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They just pull it out the pocket, you know, it's one of the ones on the list that you start talking about as we were, like, getting ready to have this conversation, apparently. And we'll play the sound for folks. He was on the Breakfast Club today, and he defended Tony. Maybe it's too far to say he was standing in solidarity child, but he did not condemn him at all. He was like the opposite of Chelsea Handler.

[Eugene Daniels]

Tony told a joke. It wasn't a tasteful joke to us. We didn't like it. Okay, hey, man, that joke.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We move on.

[Eugene Daniels]

I don't understand why we stand on the hill and it becomes like this. This big thing of like, oh, man, the. They do this and they're attacking the culture. It doesn't have to be that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It.

[Eugene Daniels]

It literally is. Either you're a fan of this level of content or you're not. And if you're not a fan, then you don't want. Watch it. My last note for all attached to this is very simple, okay? Whatever the headlines or whatever the dialogue is, my rebuttal of simplicity, remove me from it. I didn't say it.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I wish I didn't care this much, but I do. And I got a lot of pushback from comedians on my. Not on some comedians who are like Tony Hinchcliff acolytes on my Instagram. But I said to them, I was like, look, I get that I'm a woke, snowflake, liberal area, San Francisco latte liberal, whatever comedian. I get that I'm soft on the inside and the outside, whatever you want to think about me. But, like, D.L. hughley also had problems with it. And D.L. hughley comes from that tradition of roasting the people in the club who are in the front row. You know what I mean? Like, he comes from that. So to me, when D.L. hughley has a problem with it, forget what I said. I get I'm an N word, gay slur. Whatever you want to say, but we talk. D.L. hughley is clearly one of the goats of comedy and was on the tour of the Kings of Comedy, one of

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

the original Kings of Comedy.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And Lonnie Love had issues with it. Lil Rel Howery had issues with it. So forget Kamau the soft, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But, like, these are comedians who you don't want to follow them on stage and they had problems with it. So I think Kevin's in a position where you're. When you're. Who are your peers, I think is what the question is, who do you define as the people? And. And then who are your community? Like, when I walk off stage, if I get a call from people in my community who I define as my community, go, Kamau, that wasn't it. I'm gonna take it seriously. Yeah. Now for the people on Instagram who call me all sorts of N word gay slurs, you're not in my community. So have fun, have at it. You're not with me. As my podcast says, I'm not with you.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Gather round, children. Gather round. Kevin Hart. We're gonna clip this while I will clip it to make sure that it gets on the Internet. Here's the thing. The reality is this, like, some people just are who they are. And Kevin Hart is obviously in the camp of people who do not care about being for the community, who do not care about, you know, standing in the gap. Maybe he's in the same class of people as Byron Allen, who, you know, they got enough money and their concerns are just a little bit different. But the reality of the situation is to tell people to just, oh, get over it and whatnot. You know who not over it? George Floyd, cuz he's fucking dead. Okay. You know who's that over it? The people who were in the streets in the summer of 2020 when this country was literally at its breaking point. Okay. So I just, you know, it's

[W. Kamau Bell]

the

[Eugene Daniels]

George Floyd family who said the response from Hart was sad for the culture according to the Griot.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah. Because let's be clear, Kevin went to the George Floyd memorial service in 2020.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So it just, it just gets complicated. Like, I know that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Is it complicated? Complicated?

[W. Kamau Bell]

I mean, let him say it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Is it?

[W. Kamau Bell]

No, it's very simple. You're right. Here's what I mean by complicated. Simone, you would think that the guy who said it's just a joke would not also be the guy who went to the George Floyd memorial and then also in the Breakfast Club was like, didn't really want to take any responsibility for the fact that it was his roast that he produced and that Tony Hinchcliff said the joke. And let's Netflix did edit jokes out of the re air of the roast so they could have pulled that joke out. So to me, again, it's this thing about who's your people, who are you defining as your community, who do you feel like you're responsible to? And the thing I really wanna push

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

back on is Kevin Hart is not responsible to us. Apparently. He is not responsible to black people in America who did not like the joke. He let us know on the Breakfast Club. He don't give up flying. Whatever, whatever. Okay? Which is fine. Okay. It's fine. If that's how he feels, he's entitled to that feeling. But you are not entitled to not be critic.

[Eugene Daniels]

This has always been, I think, especially for black folks, as our folks started to get. As they started to get famous, right? Like, I think about, you know, O.J. did we bring up O.J. a lot of years?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

No.

[Eugene Daniels]

But when mainstream. When it became mainstream, right?

[W. Kamau Bell]

We're talking about the 80s. We're talking about the 80s when black people went global.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay, okay.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Exactly.

[Eugene Daniels]

When, like, we really started to be mainstream, the shows, you know, white people were watching the shows and they were listening. Michael Jackson, he was the most famous person on the world, was a black. I think at the end of the day, the folks who, as that was happening, the question about what is the responsibility to be political? What is the responsibility to stand in the gap? What does that look like? And there are different paths, right? There's a path where if you really go ham, you have the possibility of pissing off the mainstream audience. But if you don't, it's hard to go back to the cookout, right? And I think, like, those two paths are very different. And I think they require, especially in 2026, the year of our Lord Beyonce, 20. They require, like, a real different. Like a stealing of the spine in a way that a lot of people are uncomfortable with.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I would say this. I would add to that just the other thing we are living in is that. Cause I wrote about this in my substack. I wrote about the history of the roast. The roast used to happen in private rooms where the only people who were there were the invited guests who wanted to be there. Then later they happened on tv. But the TV landscape was different then. If you watch the roast sunset, cbs, you saw it, but if you didn't want to watch that, you watched it on the ABC and you never heard about the roast. They were just over there. But now we live in this landscape where people who didn't want to watch the Kevin Hart roast open up their phones the next day and they're served Tony Hinchcliffe's George Floyd joke, whether they want to see it or not. Because the algorithm demands that we are a Monoculture. And so especially if you're a black person and you pay attention to black culture, then the algorithm goes, this, George Floyd is black culture. And they will just. And you have to see it, whether you to want to or not, because you're just scrolling on your phone. So I think it. Kevin's saying, like, the people who watch the roast knew what they were in for, is denying the fact that we live at a time where the algorithm and monoculture pushes us into everybody's thing, whether we want to or not. So we all hear about shows we don't even want to see, just because the algorithm is like, no, no, no, Kamau, you care about gay figure skaters. I'm like, I do. I didn't know. Like, Netflix is global, so that means that joke was broadcast. And we all know that anti black racism has also been exported globally by the United States of America. And then surrounding this, I think we talk about. Kevin's talking about the roast as if it was in a vacuum. But surrounding the roast is the United States gutting the Voting Rights act, which directly affects black people. So if every black person had all the money they needed, had the education they wanted for their kids, felt safe calling the cops when they were in trouble, and mass incarceration was over, and we had a society that was pro black and every, every way, and then they did the Kevin Hart roast.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh, yeah.

[W. Kamau Bell]

But we live at a time where our government is directly working overtime to dismantle all the institutions that black people rely on and to take our rights further away from us. And if you think birthright citizenship that they're trying to destroy is only coming for people, Latino folks, you've got it wrong. If they end birthright citizens citizenship, all this stuff rolls downhill towards black people.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

This is an attack on our democracy, but they are using black people to do it. Okay, just like to your point about the 14th amendment, the birthright citizenship situation, that is before the Supreme Court. And we will have a ruling this June before the Supreme Court goes on summer vacation. People think this is just about immigrants. They think this is just about undocumented people. But it goes so much further than this. So it's just not the roast. I think it's now Kevin Hart's comments after the roast, like, was this PR people literally sat down with your ass, booked you in a Breakfast Club, and y' all said this, what we should say. The cons person in me is like, fire them. Fire them all.

[Eugene Daniels]

But, Simone, that is the culture we live in. And a lot of it is Donald Trump led, which is double down. Right. We're seeing that with Cheyenne Bryant. Doctor or not. Like, everybody. Everybody who is out there, what you're supposed to do is like, ignore the haters, quote, unquote. Ignore the criticism and move through it. Because, as Kamau writes, like, cancel Culture isn't fucking real. So, like, what are the consequences if not. We are actually in an age where all press is good press in a way that it didn't used to actually be true. It used to be, like, there were real consequences. You lose ad buyers and stuff. But now people just wait because controversy after controversy, the news cycle moves so fast, and so why not say what you wanna say, which is, yeah, fuck it. I didn't care about that. I didn't care about that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Will Smith was like a word child. He slapped one person at the Oscars one time and just has not been.

[Eugene Daniels]

Not one person one time. If it was two, then Simone's like, okay, two's too many. Now he can't go to.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The point is that Will Smith is canceled. So cancel Culture, I believe, is.

[W. Kamau Bell]

No, let's be careful. Will Smith, he did have a Bad Boys movie come out after that that was very successful. Him and Martin Lawrence did another Bad Boys movie. He had an album came out that we all paid attention to.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Now that people have heard it. Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

I didn't know the funny.

[W. Kamau Bell]

I think people want him back because they have such a deep well of love for Will Smith. But he's got things to overcome because the thing he did was outside of what we think Will Smith does. But let's be clear. If Will Smith wanted to play a different way, he could have gone full Maga and he would be uncanceled over there. He could have been like, that's right. I slapped black men. That's what I do now. That's my new brand. I slap black men. And then he would have been, like, on the Ben Shapiro Network, and he would have been on, like, you know, he'd have been on tour with Glenn Beck and he had done the Tucker Carlson interview. You know, Tucker Carlson, the right wing

[Eugene Daniels]

did not cancel, to your point. Right.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I guess you're right. I guess he did not cancel. He's just been ostracized slightly.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's been ostracized. He just can't go. He just can't go to the Oscars.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Yeah. I think he just felt shame for doing the thing, which is what you should feel shame for walking up and slapping somebody at the Oscars when you just were gonna win an Oscar an hour later.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You know, I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying he's like one person, one time.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's pro slap you. Sounds like you're pro slap.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I think this is a good place to end.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's a good place to end.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Before we go, I just. Kamau, you do have a podcast that's starting, and I guess I'm wondering why now, and who are your first couple guests?

[W. Kamau Bell]

Well, yeah, I mean, so I've been in the podcast space for years. Actually, the last podcast I Hosted was the ACLU's podcast At Liberty, and I

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

knew what I was doing. ACLU plug.

[W. Kamau Bell]

It's funny. I represent that brand like I'm Death row in the 90s. Correct.

[Eugene Daniels]

All day.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You need a entertained.

[W. Kamau Bell]

ACLU is the label that volunteers me.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[W. Kamau Bell]

So I've had a lot of podcasts. One of. I've had, like, you know, political podcasts, Politically Reactive with my friend Hari, I had a podcast that people. Some people know Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all time, period, from back in the day. So I've had a lot of podcasts, but I've never had my own solo podcast. And from writing the substack for the last couple years, I've really enjoyed the conversations I've had. And really, the whole idea for the substack is, who. Who's with me? Which I think is the most important question. Like, if you're with me, we can argue about the details, the nuances of how we're gonna overcome everything. But if you're not with me, then go over there, kill Tony and all those people. So for me, the podcast is a way to rally us all together at a time where we need a place to rally together. So the first guest. I live in Oakland, so there's gonna be a lot of Oakland focus in the podcast. First guest is Oakland's own Delroy Lindo. He's been living in Oakland for 30 years now.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes.

[W. Kamau Bell]

And we recorded this after he had lost the Oscar, which. Which he should have won. We talk about that. We also talk a lot about Denzel. Yeah, we also talk a lot about Denzel Washington and his love for Denzel, which led me. And that's why I brought up the podcast. And then the second guest is my congresswoman, Latifah Simon, who I'm very proud to say is my congresswoman, who I hope is part of the future of the Democratic Party. And then the third week, it's funny, related to the roast, and I haven't said this out loud yet anywhere. It's Ted Danson. And we did this before all this Kevin Hart stuff happened. He just wanted to tell the story again because he felt like a lot of young people, people don't know it. Of the roast. So that's week. That's the third episode.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, well, well. We'll be tuned in locked and low. And I agree with you. I, too, want a podcast by myself.

[Eugene Daniels]

You can have one.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

See it.

[Eugene Daniels]

Be your own people. It'd be your own people. It'd be your own people.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Karl. No, Eugene, you know I love you. You make everything better. You know so much. W. Kamau Bell, you are hilarious. So, so smart. Thank you for coming to the group chat today.

[W. Kamau Bell]

Happy to be here.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. W. Kamau Bell.

[Eugene Daniels]

He always.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I thought that was great.

[Eugene Daniels]

I think the thing that I've always really respected about him is that being funny and finding humor in things is they are not divorced. That is not divorced from being very smart and thoughtful about politics and the state of our world and the culture. And I think that, like, that's a good reminder that that is something that we can all be. You can be laughing, but you can care a lot about the things going

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

on in this world. Yes, you can laugh and you can care. I just, again, I am very vexed by people that do not show care or concern for any of the communities that they may be a part of.

[Eugene Daniels]

I didn't notice that. I didn't notice that in that interview. Did you really?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm serious. I got smoke for everybody.

[Eugene Daniels]

Someone give this lady a coffee in

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

solidarity with their community. Get the world Butcher.

[Eugene Daniels]

Get a coffee.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I appreciate it, W. Kamau Bell, for just not like I felt validated in this conversation that I'm not crazy. That my concern and my smoke for what Byron Allen was saying was warranted. That my concern and smoke for Kevin Hart was warranted.

[Eugene Daniels]

As always, thank y' all for listening to the cast. We appreciate you. We love you guys.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Let us know what you think about our new setups. These are our new new home studios.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes. We might not be doing this this week. Who knows? You can subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts to get this and other MSNow podcasts ad free as a subscriber. You'll also get exclusive bonus content. All episodes of Clockett are also available on YouTube. Visit Ms. Now Clockett to Watch.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Clockett is produced by Frannie Kelly. Our associate producer is in additional production support from Brittany Ruff, Adrianna Thomas, Elijah Gibbs Jones, Malcolm Thomas, and Lynn Hilton. Many thanks to Julia Squilla. And to our dp, Joey Rafini.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes. Our audio engineers are Hazik Ben, Ahmed Farad and Bob Mallory.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Katie Lau is the senior manager of audio production. Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNow Audio. And Madeline Herringer is senior vice president, President in charge of audio, digital and long form. Our theme music is by Jesse McGinty. And we're your hosts, Simone. And we're your host.

[Eugene Daniels]

What's your name?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I hate him. I hate him so much. And we're your hosts, Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels.

[Eugene Daniels]

See you next week.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

See you next week. You just have no coordination. No coordination.

[Eugene Daniels]

Like open the schools immediately. Open the schools and close the clubs, honey.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay?

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