Don Lemon Thinks His Critics Are “Out of Their Rabbit A** Minds”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Clock It with Symone & Eugene — "Don Lemon Thinks His Critics Are “Out of Their Rabbit A** Minds”

Hosts: Symone Sanders Townsend & Eugene Daniels
Guest: Don Lemon
Date: March 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features an incisive, lively group chat between hosts Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels — both veterans at the intersection of culture and politics — with special guest Don Lemon. The conversation unpacks the ongoing political, cultural, and media firestorms: the Trump administration’s war in Iran, soaring domestic costs, the politicization—and criminalization—of journalism (with Don Lemon uniquely in the crosshairs), and the broader state of democracy, free press, and groupthink in American society. Personal histories and honest emotions ground the insightful, sometimes irreverent take.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roundup: Top News Stories

[01:11–02:26]

• Updates on global and domestic headlines:
  • Epstein’s former ranch in New Mexico under investigation.
  • WNBA players fighting for a fairer revenue split (current: NBA players 51%, WNBA only 9.3%).
  • Middle East crisis: 700,000 displaced in Lebanon due to Israeli strikes on Hezbollah.
• The hosts stress rising public interest, economic injustice, and the cascading effects of war on families back home.

Memorable Line:

"It's given inequality." — Eugene Daniels [01:44]

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2. Cuba, Iran, and the Trump Administration’s Foreign Policy

[03:02–09:24]

• Trump’s incendiary rhetoric on Cuba at a White House event, signaling appetite for regime change and catering to specific diaspora politics.
• Marco Rubio's influence: as "the center of so much of this," shaped by exile politics.
  • Recalls Rubio’s memoir: “I boasted I would someday lead an army of exiles to overthrow Fidel Castro and become president of a free Cuba.” — read by Symone Sanders Townsend [05:46]
• Ideology as persuasion: Those with hardened ideological stances in Trump’s inner circle can shape presidential decisions, often aimed more at headlines than policy.
• Comparison with Venezuela’s “regime change” op—laying groundwork for potential U.S. action.
• Broad theme: Decisions made for political legacy, not security (“He cares about getting a flashy headline... getting people really excited.” — Symone [04:32])
• U.S. intelligence briefings (including during Biden’s campaign) labeling Iran—not China or Russia—as the foremost national security risk.

Key Quote:

"Donald Trump does not have an ideology." — Symone Sanders Townsend [04:32]

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3. War, Propaganda, & The ‘Memeification’ of Conflict

[09:24–14:17]

• Media criticism: The hosts denounce the Pentagon and White House for posting “war porn” — actual combat footage scored with video game audio, even unauthorized celebrity voice-overs.
• Emotional reflection: Symone, a military brat, describes the real-life cost for families with deployed loved ones—contrasting government flippancy with her community's sacrifice.
  • “We had gold stars for the kids who lost their parents. … It is shocking to me... that the people that then send them to do it, acting like it’s fun, and it’s a video game... It’s bullshit.” — Symone [11:05]
• Both hosts reflect (with guest Don Lemon) on how this public communications strategy—trivializing war—desensitizes the public to tragedy, conceals casualties, and sparks wild disinformation online.
• Growing problem: conspiracy theories about soldiers’ deaths and White House insensitivity during dignified transfers.

Key Quote:

“The memeification of war is in fact sickening.” — Eugene Daniels [11:58]

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4. The Don Lemon Interview: Journalism on Trial, the First Amendment, and the MAGA “Cult”

Begins: [18:07]

a. Don Lemon’s Career and Press Freedom

• Don recounts his 2018 CNN broadcast, calling out Trump’s racism—then controversial, now prescient.
• Reflections on being “ahead of his time” in journalistic bluntness.
• Challenges in today’s media: “That went straight out on cable news where I said shithole country.” [19:28]
• Honesty about career consequences, political blowback, and the changing nature of threats to journalists.

b. The Homefront Impact of Iran War

[19:47–24:04]

• War’s direct toll on everyday Americans: gas prices, food prices, cost of living.
  • "Most people ... live paycheck to paycheck ... It’s an insult to the American people to ask them to sacrifice that." — Don Lemon [20:49]
• Trump and family directly profiting from war through business channels.
• Despite real pain “in the wallet,” polling still shows overwhelming Republican support for Trump’s moves in Iran.

c. Trump Supporters, the Media, and the Limits of Persuasion

[24:04–28:38]

• Don’s thesis: the hardcore Trump base is a “cult”—immune to facts, motivated by racism, misogyny, and “othering.”
• Anecdote: Even those directly hurt by Trump’s policies (“the soybean farmer”) refuse to blame him—reaffirming the power of mass psychology and political scapegoating.
• Symone and Don exchange on watching voters’ emotional investments override rational interests.
  • “It is that black person that took your job. … That’s the fuel that keeps them coming back and voting against their own interests.” — Don Lemon [27:40]

d. Press Accountability, Correspondents’ Dinner, and Don’s Indictment

[28:38–41:21]

• The press is “neutered” by Trump—applauding reporters for doing the basics (e.g., Sean McCreesh’s challenging question about the Tomahawk missile).
• Debate over inviting Trump to the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.
  • Don: “A president who would rather jail reporters ... does not deserve the honor ... to sit in a room of people who do that. That tradition is not law. We don’t live in traditional times.” [35:07]
  • Eugene: “The things that haven’t been done before, those are the things to try.” (quoting Edgar Guest) [36:30]
• Don’s legal ordeal:
  • Facing conspiracy and “coordinated takeover” charges for live-stream reporting at a Minnesota ICE protest—arrested in the middle of the night, indicted alongside 39 others.
  • “Anyone who says that [I’m relishing this] is out of their rabid ass minds. That is completely 100% not true. … I stand by my reporting.” — Don Lemon [40:15]
  • White House social media uses lemon and chains emoji after his arrest; the hosts address the race-coded threat. “It was disturbing because they know what they’re doing … it is not an accident that they put chains in the imagery.” — Eugene [41:21]

e. The Broader Stakes: Journalism, Race, and Authoritarianism

• Don contextualizes his experience as part of a broader pattern of targeting Black journalists, naming Georgia Fort and Lisa Cook, and ties to larger conversations on race and silencing dissent.
• Both hosts and Don reinforce continued support for press freedom and the urgency of defending the First Amendment.

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5. Side Chat & Closing: Journalism, AI, and the Oscars

[47:10–53:19]

• Reflections on Don Lemon, Black journalists, and racial targeting.
  • “They seem to think that Black people are easy targets, but they picked the right one.” — Symone [48:25]
• Debates and jokes about public skepticism over AI (Anthropic’s Claude “having anxiety”), acceptance and normalization of AI in everyday life.
• Lighthearted Oscar talk—rooting for “everybody Black” and recent culture news.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

All timestamps in MM:SS format.

• "It’s given inequality." — Eugene Daniels [01:44]
• “He cares about getting a flashy headline... getting people really excited.” — Symone Sanders Townsend [04:32]
• “We had gold stars for the kids who lost their parents … Acting like it’s fun and it’s a video game... It’s bullshit.” — Symone [11:05]
• “The memeification of war is in fact sickening.” — Eugene [11:58]
• "Most people ... live paycheck to paycheck ... It’s an insult to the American people to ask them to sacrifice that." — Don Lemon [20:49]
• "Those Americans are dead. And we don't know why." — Eugene Daniels [15:51]
• “A president who would rather jail reporters ... does not deserve the honor ... to sit in a room of people who do that.” — Don Lemon [35:07]
• "Anyone who says that is out of their rabid ass minds. … I stand by my reporting.” — Don Lemon [40:15]
• “They seem to think that Black people are easy targets, but they picked the right one.” — Symone [48:25]

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Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] — Top news rundown
• [03:02] — Cuba, Iran, Trump foreign policy segment
• [09:24] — War, propaganda, memeification
• [13:03] — Hosts’ military backgrounds and reflections
• [18:07] — Don Lemon joins; free press and Trump admin
• [20:49] — Don Lemon on war’s domestic impact
• [24:04] — MAGA as “cult”; why persuasion fails
• [28:38] — Coverage of the girls’ school missile, media accountability
• [32:31] — Correspondents’ Dinner debate
• [35:07] — Don: “I disagree ...”
• [38:22] — Don Lemon’s indictment explained
• [41:21] — White House “lemon and chains” tweet; racial undertones
• [47:10] — Side chat: Don Lemon, Black journalists, racial targeting
• [48:35] — AI, skepticism, and the Oscars preview

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Overall Tone

Conversational, unfiltered, and deeply informed; hosts freely mix news analysis, cultural critique, and personal anecdotes with empathy and off-the-cuff humor. The presence of Don Lemon elevates both candor and stakes, especially on journalism under threat and race in American media and politics.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

“Don Lemon Thinks His Critics Are ‘Out of Their Rabbit A** Minds’” provides a revealing, emotionally honest portrait of what’s at stake for democracy, free press, and everyday Americans, as seen through the eyes of those living—and shaping—the news, not just reporting it. If you care about truth-telling, fighting cynicism, and defending democracy, this episode is both a warning and a rallying cry.

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Transcript

[Don Lemon]

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[Eugene Daniels]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Eugene Daniels]

Greetings and welcome back to Clock it, where we talk about what we see and hear at the intersection of culture and politics.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

This week, New Mexico investigators are searching a ranch that used to belong to Jeffrey Epstein and now belongs to a Texas lawmaker. And the WNBA still does not have an agreement with the players, which means the season might start late.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, the girls are fighting. They're fighting with the owners for a bigger share of the league's revenue. It's a good fight that currently in the NBA, the players get 51% of the pie and in the WNBA, the players get 9.3%. Make that makes sense.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I assumed it because of how raggedy it has been between the NBA and the wnba.

[Eugene Daniels]

I mean, it's given inequality.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's not good.

[Eugene Daniels]

And people want to watch. Look, we can get into it, but people are watching. The WNBA and women's sports is making money.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, and they need to make money back. Meanwhile, NATO is intercepting missiles in Turkey and the United nations says that In Lebanon, almost 700,000 people, y', all, 700,000 people have been displaced by Israeli attacks on Hezbollah.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's so sad, you know, and we will be talking about that war in the Middle East. Child from the Pentagon social media posts to how much airfare is about to go up because of the disruption of the oil business. But that is not all. Don Lemon is joining the group chat.

[Don Lemon]

No, I don't know anything about the

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don Lemon thing, but he's a sneezebag. Everyone's know that. He's a washtub. Probably from his standpoint, the best thing

[Eugene Daniels]

that could happen to him, he's getting,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

you know, he had no viewers yet. He was a failure.

[Eugene Daniels]

He was a failed host. Do you think Don Lemon lives rent free and Donald Trump says.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It seems like anytime Donald Trump says I don't know anything about it, he clearly seems to know a lot about it. So, yes, we have our friend Don Lemon this week talking about the best thing that ever happened to him. That is a quote, as well as how he's judging the media's coverage of the war with Iran. Not a great grade, by the way.

[Eugene Daniels]

We are going to start in a different country. We're starting in Cuba where nobody is attacking anybody yet, child. Okay, so this is what is going on. This was actually in Eugene and I's international group chat. But so this is Donald Trump last week at the White House celebrating inter Miami. Eugene, that's a professional soccer team. Thank you very much. And they won the championship. But as soon as the president starts to shout out Marco Rubio, he gets a little distracted.

[Don Lemon]

He's doing some job. And your next one is going to be we want to do that special Cuba.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He's waiting, but he says, let's get

[Eugene Daniels]

this one finished first.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We could do them all at the

[Don Lemon]

same time, but bad things happen.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

If you watch countries over the years,

[Don Lemon]

you do them all too fast.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Bad things happen.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're not going to let anything bad

[Don Lemon]

happen to this country.

[Eugene Daniels]

I want to be very clear by let's get this one finished first, the president means Iran, a full war.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And by we want to do that special Cuba, he means invading. Attacking Cuba in some way is special to Marco Rubio. That's the one that Rubio wants. And I think something for people who are paying like a little bit of attention, but not all the attention about this. Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State and all the other jobs, he's like the archivist, national archivist. He's the national Security advisor. He is at the center of so much of this. And he is someone who has a much stronger foreign policy posture than Donald Trump wants and is probably used to.

[Eugene Daniels]

He has an ideology that he subscribes

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

and Donald Trump does not have an ideology. So if you are someone in this administration that has an ideology and you want Donald Trump to do something, it's easier to convince him to do so because he himself, he doesn't really care about policy. He cares about getting a flashy headline of getting people like really that get people excited. And I will say I was talking to a lot of Cuban Americans. And one thing that they have said over and over again is that if Donald Trump does do something in Cuba, there's some kind of regime change in Cuba. The benefit he will receive politically from Latinos in this country, they're not a monolith, to be very clear, but many are looking for Cuba, the leader of Cuba, to go away. There will be some benefit to him if that's the case.

[Eugene Daniels]

Well, Rubio is also a descendant of those that fled communist dictator Cuba. Right. Like his formative years, what he believes is shaped by that there's a strong contingent in Miami that also subscribes to this. And so it is like, I mean, y' all remember when the president went and snatched up the president of Venezuela, Venezuela, Maduro. And there were people who were celebrating in the streets of Miami, Florida, Florida, Texas, all over the country where there were large Venezuelan populations.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The reason I keep looking at my

[Eugene Daniels]

phone is because someone not paying attention

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

to me, someone sent me. This is about Marco Rubio, about how he when he was a kid. And in his memoirs, an American son from 2012, he I'm just read this quote, I boasted I would someday lead an army of exiles to overthrow Fidel Castro and become president of a free Cuba. That is in his memoir, he is

[Eugene Daniels]

the grandson of Cuban exiles. Okay. And I think it's important to note that many of Trump's closest advisors do come from South Florida. So it shapes them. Like, you know, if you hire a bunch of black people from Nebraska, we gon fancy the state over the shrimp or the salmon. Right. We're going to have a little penchant for the things that we know. What I think people just need to make sure that they are like tuned in on, on what's going on in Cuba. Just like in the Venezuela operation, the government had been practicing for months. For months. The service members, they were practicing in Kentucky in a warehouse on how they bust down the doors of Maduro's house. It is not far fetched to believe that the government is currently practicing to go in and snatch up the current leader in Cuba. But they are looking for charges to underscore what they're doing.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They already have a working group.

[Eugene Daniels]

They have a working group at the Department of Justice, shout out to Carolyn, our colleagues in Kandalini and getting them scoops in that report because.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And so this is the thing that's so interesting is there are certain countries where they choose to not make it like a legal question. Right. So Iran, for example, there wasn't a DOJ charge for the ayatollah Right.

[Eugene Daniels]

So there's a ripped all you know, Iran is the greatest threat to United States national security according to this administration. Any Democrat or Republican. When I worked for Vice President Harris. Well, when I worked for the Biden campaign in 2020, the one that won. Just clocking. Stop people warrant for somebody. When I elected a president I am not. When I was helping elect a president after then candidate Biden selected his running mate, which was then Senator Vice President Harris. The running mates go through all these briefings and whatnot to make sure that we on the same page. I don't know what you think, but this is what Joe Biden thinks, right?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And only say that.

[Eugene Daniels]

And only say that. And in one of the briefings, like this is not classified information I'm giving you. But in the national security briefing it was Iran is the greatest threat to America's national security, Not China, not Russia. Like it literally like our briefer went through this.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right?

[Eugene Daniels]

And I think that people have to understand that this is not just a Trump administration thing. There are Democratic administrations. If Kamala Harris was president, I think she would have said Iran is the greatest threat to.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

But would she have bombed?

[Eugene Daniels]

She would not have bombed. She wouldn't have bombed them. Because this is what Netanyahu wanted. Now the Internet. Cause I'm not responding to the comments, but I'mma speak to the comments on the podcast. Y' all know by now the Internet from our episode last week were like, I cannot believe Simone and Eugene, but they really said I did it. Are trafficking in these anti Semitic tropes about Israel. And I was just like, hold on,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

folks, I didn't see this.

[Eugene Daniels]

This ain't that. And we need to be specific to be clear. Prime Minister Netanyahu has for longer than

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I have been alive 40 years.

[Eugene Daniels]

Come on. And I'm saying it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He said it himself. He said he said it himself. For 40 years he's wanted this.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's wanted what?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

To get rid of. To attack Iran in some way. Come on now.

[Eugene Daniels]

And he has asked President Democrats and Republicans to do it. And Donald Trump is the only American president that took Prime Minister Netanyahu's bait, that took the argument and acted on what he wanted. So to be very clear, it's not anti Semitic to underscore the facts. And the facts are Donald Trump did this because Prime Minister Netanyahu was very adept in getting him to do what he wanted.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And one of the ways in which he did this, which is so interesting, is that he said to Donald Trump, this is all in the report and it's all public. God, don't forget, this is someone who wanted to kill you. There was a plot, remember? And so there is a crossly aspect of this for Donald Trump that is very interesting. But as of this recording, the Pentagon has said that 140 US troops have been injured in the war with Iran, eight severely. And we know that seven service members have died because of it. But the social media accounts of both the Pentagon and the White House are acting like this is a game. This is the video I wanna play this video for that puts the score from the Call of Duty video game over. Footage of actual strikes on Iran.

[Eugene Daniels]

This is ridiculous.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Welcome.

[Don Lemon]

Strength and honor.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Strength and honor. What will you do without freedom? Maverick's in that one.

[Eugene Daniels]

You can't conceive of what I'm capable of finishing this fight.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The voice actor who says, quote, finishing the fight. This was posted on X. I demand that the producers of this disgusting and juvenile war porn remove my voice immediately. It uses a clip of Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder. And the director Ben Stiller said, also on X, we never gave you permission and have no interest in being a part of your propaganda machine. War is not a movie, Simone. They are right. I am a military brat. I my dad and when I was in high school, I went to Shoemaker High School in Killeen, Texas, right outside of Fortville.

[Eugene Daniels]

Hence the tattoo.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Correct. Of Texas tattoo. It's very strange, but like 85% of our parents were in Iraq or Afghanistan. When I was in high school, we had blue and silver stars because we were all blue and silver. Blue and silver stars around the school with all of our parents names, dads, moms, aunts, uncles, people who are our guardians. We had gold stars for the kids who lost their parents. And it is shocking to me. It is disgusting that when you know what it looks like to watch your friend find out that their parent is killed has given the ultimate sacrifice for this country. To have the people that then send them to do it. Acting like it's fun and it's a video game and that it is something they should meme and make fun of and play with. It's bullshit.

[Eugene Daniels]

The memeification of war is in fact sickening. Yeah, I just. It's just so sad in thinking about this, I'm thinking about the seven US service members who have died thus far. I shudder to think about the additional casualties that are coming. And so the fact that they are. What they're trying to do is desensitize us to what is really Going on and shout out to the people that are seeing their art being used here and being like, hell no. Get my down immediately. Immediately. I saw Ben still. I said, clocking Benson expeditiously. Let me go watch a movie.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I think the thing that is. And this is something important to say. Cause I feel like when folks hear people from Ms. Talk about the military, they're like, you guys don't support the military? No, no, no.

[Eugene Daniels]

My daddy was in the military.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

O. We understand the sacrifices. I've been a military brat my whole life. The folks that go overseas, they understand that they may not come back. When my dad went to Korea, he went to Kosovo. There were all these different things. He was very much busy when I. My father.

[Eugene Daniels]

My daddy was a scientist in the army. Yes.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

My father missed me being born because he was in the first Gulf War. Okay. So we had. We in this. Okay. To be very clear. And so when people are sent over there, they understand they may not come back. Their families understand they may not come back. When you have to wait now, it's much easier. But we had to hope for a phone call or wait for an email. You know what I mean? Or a letter. I think the thing that is so frustrating is that this administration does not seem to understand that it's not that folks don't wanna sacrifice, that they don't understand the sacrifice, that they didn't sign up for it. It's that if I'm going to sacrifice, I want to sacrifice for people who understand what that sacrifice is like. They don't have to be someone in the army. I'm not saying that everyone that sends folks over have to be in the military, have to have some kind of military background, but they have to respect the fact that someone may not come back.

[Eugene Daniels]

You know who made this point this week? Cheryl Underwood.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay. She is guest hosting on the View this week while Alyssa is out on maternity leave. And Cheryl Underwood is a lifelong Republican, like Michael Siella. Yeah. As a black Republican. And Cheryl Underwood is a veteran.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah.

[Eugene Daniels]

And she made this very unique table. They showed her. Cause they were like, we got receipts.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And I put on a uniform to serve this country.

[Eugene Daniels]

And I always wanted to know, why am I doing this? That's me in the Air Force Reserve. Why are we doing it? And I do believe when they say, you should not follow an unlawful order, why is this not impeachable? And where are the politicians to say this? Dude, don't have it all the way together. He cannot be the commander in chief. And I do think this is very important because the misinformation, the disinformation that is out there about what is happening in this war is insane. The memification is an attempt, in my opinion, to dumb it down for folks to desensitize it. And look, the lies and the kind of conspiracy theories online, they're bubbling up. We talked about the seven service members. One of the theories that I have heard from real people is that the coffins of the service members that we saw where the president attended the dignified transfer, where he had that hat on. Very disrespectful child. Same hat he wore to go golfing. Joe Biden checked his watch during a dignified transfer. Everybody was like, oh, he hates the military, but Donald Trump can have the hat on, make it make sense to me. But there's a conspiracy theory that, like, I'm not gonna say who, cuz y'. All. Some people know who they are.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I don't wanna know. Somebody was like, I don't even know. She won't even tell me.

[Eugene Daniels]

Somebody was like, did you. Did you know that the Americans that came back during the dignified transfer, they really didn't come back. They've been captured by Iran. And I was like, where did you hear this? And they were like, oh, I read it on the Internet and I saw it on a article. The Hindu Times don't count. I'm sorry. So misinformation, disinformation is very real.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's very weird, and it's very scary,

[Eugene Daniels]

and it's not true. Those Americans are dead.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

And we don't know why.

[Don Lemon]

Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

So maybe the government could let us know what the hell is going on.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We're gonna take a break for that.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Our blood pressure get too high?

[Eugene Daniels]

I need a beat.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

When we come back, Don Lemon, he'll be here with us. Don't go anywhere.

[Don Lemon]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Three wins this season.

[Don Lemon]

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[Eugene Daniels]

Mom, dad, I'm not throwing shade, but

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

the whole New Year's resolution thing, kind of slippin.

[Eugene Daniels]

No offense. Anyway, my best friend Jenny's dad crushing it. He uses blue apron. He says he ordered one pan assemble and bake meals and then and these

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

things called meal kits. They're all super easy to make.

[Eugene Daniels]

He keeps yelling protein and fiber, baby.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Also the food. We tried it so good.

[Eugene Daniels]

So maybe check it out or whatever. Blue Apron.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Get $50 off your first two orders,

[Eugene Daniels]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Eugene Daniels]

Visit blueapron.com terms for more. A Better Help ad. International Women's Day is this March. Time to celebrate all women, the leaders, the caregivers, the problem solvers, the hype friends, the how do you do it? All types therapy can be a space to reflect, reset and reconnect. And BetterHelp makes it simple by matching you with a qualified therapist based on your needs and preferences. No pressure, no guesswork. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off. Welcome back, friends. Joining the group chat now is the incomparable Don Lemon. Among his many achievements over a very long career at CNN was this opener in 2018.

[Don Lemon]

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. The president of the United States is racist. A lot of us already knew that. Today, President Trump talking with lawmakers in the Oval Office about immigrants from Haiti, from El Salvador and Africa, said, and I quote, why are we having all these people from whole countries come here? But you know who he did say he would welcome here? He said the US should bring in more people from countries like Norway, baby, where wow.

[Eugene Daniels]

In 2018. Can you believe that? That was controversial. Now, Don Lemon is an independent journalist and he is still reporting very accurately about this administration, Donald Trump, and the people standing up in this moment that we are all living in. Don, thank you for coming to the group chat today. We love you.

[Don Lemon]

I love you, too. Two things. Now.

[Eugene Daniels]

You can speak back now.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, I can get into a lot of trouble because, you know, Simone, when we get together, especially if it's over a little too much. The other thing is, is that I cannot believe that it was controversial back in 2018, but I suffered the consequences of that. I mean, not to, I'm not, you know, patting myself on the back, but I think that I've always kind of been ahead of my time with these things. I mean, you guys are beeping it. That wasn't beep. That went straight out on cable news where I said shithole country.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah, it did. We were saying shithole countries for about a week, correct?

[Don Lemon]

Right, Right.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, very much so. I mean, but Don was ahead of his time. I'm thinking about Vivek Ramaswamy and remember Vivek Ramaswamy and that interview that Don did with him or the Elon Musk, Don was correct. Oh, yes, child, Elon Musk.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Some people's eyes. But we're gonna talk about all that. We're gonna also talk about what's going on, the prosecution you're dealing with and First Amendment issues first and foremost there. But we wanna get in Iran first. We wanna talk with you about how at this point it feels like the war is coming home. How Americans are starting to see gas skyrocket while Trump is kicked off this thing in the Middle East. And what I hear over and over, Don, from this administration is like, be patient with us. This is a short term pain, like for a long term gain. And I think the thing that's really important, and we all three know this and it seems like this administration does not, is that voters, human beings that live in this country, do not want to give you short term pain. They're already dealing with so much pain. So this is an administration that is asking regular people to eat. The cost of a war that primarily seems to be benefiting in Trump's size, his own legacy. What do you make of that math?

[Don Lemon]

Look, you must have been listening to the show that I just finished, my own livestream. Cause I basically said the same thing that you're saying, Eugene. I mean, most people live. Most people, I'm gonna say many people, if not most, live paycheck to paycheck or pretty close to that in this country. And it's an insult to the American people to ask them to sacrifice that. And even more of an insult to the people who voted for him. Because the rich people, they can deal with the Howard Lutnicks of the world, the Scott Besant, and all the rich people who are supporting him, okay, that's fine. They can deal with the short term pain. But the average person out there who cares about gas prices, who cares about rent prices, who may not be making

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

money, who pumps their own gas.

[Don Lemon]

Exactly. Those people don't have time and they don't have the means to hold out. So it's insulting. And on top of that, Donald Trump and his family are profiting off of this war. His sons are profiting off of it. Go look up who they're in business with. Contractors that are building and supplies for the war efforts. Not just this war, but just in general equipment that you need to go to war.

[Eugene Daniels]

They just started a new business. Don Jr. A new business.

[Don Lemon]

Empower us. Yes, yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

If you just think about this economy, everything is already more expensive. I say it every week. Beef is up 15%. Okay. People eating Hamburger Helper. And then on top of that, you've got these rising gas prices. Not just the gas that we put in our cars, but plane tickets are now gonna go up. The things we buy are gonna also get more expensive because most things in America are shipped via rail or via truck. And that all requires gas. I just don't think Americans are really ready for how this is gonna just literally hit us in our pockets in a way in which a lot of people may not be able to recover from.

[Don Lemon]

I just went on to book an airplane trip and I was like, I mean, I gasped at the prices.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's expensive.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, because the jet fuel is so expensive right now. The cost of fuel is so expensive. And if you look at gasoline every day, it's going up incrementally. And people. There was a man I saw, it may have been on your show who said that if gas prices got to 350 or $4 or even 450 that he would no longer be able to afford to run his business. And that's what's happening in America right now. And the human toll. These are families. So far as we're taping this, seven have died. I don't know what it's going to be when this actually airs, but seven service members have died.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And it's Don. What we're seeing in polling is that while a lot of Americans are concerned about what Trump is doing in Iran, they're concerned that he didn't try to sell it to them or try to get their buy in. They're concerned that he didn't even go to Congress about it. They're concerned that it's gonna cost reportedly a billion dollars a day. But when you look at some new polling that's come out over the last couple of days, Republicans, especially MAGA aligned Republicans are like 80 to 90% still okay with it.

[Don Lemon]

It.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And so I guess until we see Republicans in polling say we have issues with this, I don't see why Donald Trump will think there is any political blowback for him when it comes to this in this country.

[Don Lemon]

Well, as you know, no one knows better than you guys because you've been covering this for a long time. You're actually political correspondents and anchors. I'm just a general assignment reporter. Anchor.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Back

[Eugene Daniels]

as generalists. Correct.

[Don Lemon]

But you guys know that he's always going to have a certain degree of people, right? It's always going to be that 28 to 30 some percent of people who are going to Support him no matter what. Because, let's be honest, it's a cult. These people are brainwashed. You cannot talk to them, you cannot convince them. Even the people. Now, I see some people ripping the Trump stickers off of their car saying, you know, gas prices are too high, and on and on and on. He's, you know, he's helping out his rich buddies instead of helping us out. Okay, those are. It's happening, but not enough. There aren't enough of those people to win in 2026 if they don't try to steal this election. So I believe that the solid Trump MAGA base is smaller than people think. It's not half of the country, as people would like us to believe, as some of the political pundits would like us to believe. It's about a quarter or less of the voting public of the electorate, the people who are registered to vote. So most people are not going along with this. So there's an opportunity in 2026.

[Eugene Daniels]

But you're right, some people, they'll never get peeled off.

[Don Lemon]

That's why they went to the Capitol in January, in 2021, because it's a cult.

[Eugene Daniels]

I think part of the cultiness of it all and the blind following to the leadership is also how people are getting the news about this war. Right? If you are someone that only watches Fox News or you only look at conservative media, you have a, I think, a warped view of what is really going on.

[Don Lemon]

Let's be straight about this. Let's just be honest about this. There's a certain number of people in the public who, they didn't vote for him for the prices. They don't care about. They care about the gas prices, but that's not why they really voted for him. They care about the price of beef, but that's not why they really voted for him. They voted for him for the misogyny. They voted for him for the racism. They voted for him for the election denial. They voted for him. The mass deportations, the mass deportations for the anti vax of it all, because they believe in those things. And they voted for him for the white supremacy. And so there is nothing, if you have that sort of mindset, which is really an irrational mindset anyways, there is nothing that's gonna convince you that what you did and what you're voting for and what you're supporting is wrong because that's why you voted for him. They didn't vote for him for the prices.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don. When I was at Politico, I went to Iowa during the 2018 primaries and midterms and I was talking to and the soybean farmer had lost like a million dollars. And when this is like a one person farm, that's a lot of money.

[Eugene Daniels]

This was the first term, right?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, this was the first term. This was when he had his tariff war with China. And I said to him, you lost all this money. You were saying, you may have to close this farm down, one that your family has had for generations. Do you blame Donald Trump? He said, I trust him to do the right thing. And I think like that, that right there at the beginning of the Trump phenomenon told me everything I need to know about trying to convince these people. Because even when money is leaving your wallet, right, it is difficult for some of them to say I'm wrong. And there's like a human psychology to it, right? Like don't none of us want to say we're wrong. We're all married. And so when we're in a fight, we fight to the death. Cuz I'm not saying I'm wrong.

[Eugene Daniels]

Somebody will wrong. My friend Cleo Wade would say every ground is not a battleground.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That's not true. I disagree with that.

[Eugene Daniels]

You need therapy.

[Don Lemon]

But wait, am I getting into a middle of mommy and daddy are fighting.

[Eugene Daniels]

But I.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

This is our normal fight, Eugene.

[Don Lemon]

I think that that proves my point then, that the problem is outside of yourself, that it is that person, it's that black person that took your job. It's not me with the tariffs that's destroying your farm. It's because they're giving money to the black and the poor and immigrants and women are taking our jobs. That is the thing that he and this administration capitalize on is that the othering of people, of minorities, of immigrants, of women, and that's the fuel that keeps them coming back and voting against their own interests.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's actually so crazy I'd be interested what the soybean farmer has to say now because while they might have believed them in that first term, they are now back in a worse position. China has bought not one soybean.

[Don Lemon]

You know, Scott Besant is a soybean farmer. He said, I'm a soybean farmer too.

[Eugene Daniels]

All right. I'm not even by the soybean. Can I just, you know something that literally spoke to me this week? You know, we talk a lot about the journalists at the White House, Eugene, your former people, you, you know, our senior Washington correspondent here. And I was really struck by this exchange between Sean McCreesh. I don't know if he's the. He's a new reporter to the White House beat. Because when I was at the White House, Sean McCreesh was not there.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's at the New York Times. And he literally pinned Donald Trump down about the New York Times own analysis showing that it was actually an American missile that destroyed the girls middle school in Tehran on the first day of the war. Listen to this exchange.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Mr. President, you just suggested that Iran somehow got its hands on a Tomahawk and bombed its own elementary school on the first day of the war. But you're the only person in your government saying this. Even your Defense secretary wouldn't say that when he was asked, standing over your shoulder on your plane on Saturday. Why are you the only person saying this?

[Eugene Daniels]

Because I just don't know enough about it. I think it's something that I was told is under investigation. But Tomahawks are used by others. As you know, numerous other nations have Tomahawks. They buy them from us.

[Don Lemon]

But I will certainly whatever the report

[Eugene Daniels]

shows, I'm willing to live with that report. It's crazy because I just want to be clear.

[Don Lemon]

It's not true.

[Eugene Daniels]

Just anybody in their mama cannot just get a Tomahawk. Iran cannot just get a Tomahawk missile. The United States, we sell the Tomahawk missile to people. But that goes to the point that y' all were just making about how the president literally sometimes just says anything. It's a lie and he thinks he can get away with it because he has for so long.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. The New York Times is reporting this ongoing military investigation that has determined already that the United States is responsible for this deadly Tomahawk missile strike on this

[Eugene Daniels]

event, the Iranians, because it is a Tomahawk missile. I will be very clear. It was a Tomahawk missile.

[Don Lemon]

Israel doesn't have one.

[Eugene Daniels]

Only we have the missiles.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

Israel doesn't have one. Iran doesn't have one.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We have sold it to some of our allies.

[Eugene Daniels]

Now this is the Japan and Australia are the only two other countries we've sold Tomahawk missiles.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Now, if Israel has one, that means we secretly sold it to them. Yes. And if Iran did it, that means they stole atomic, which would be very concerning. Everyone should be worried about it. So this idea that anyone involved in what's happening in Iran other than us has it does not make any sense when you look at the ways in which these missiles are done. But go ahead, Donna.

[Don Lemon]

No, no, you're right about that. Even Pete Hexseth, who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, had the wherewithal not to co sign what the President said. He goes, it's under investigation. I'm like, oh, okay. Because he realizes is Donald Trump has complete immunity. He does not. The other thing that I want to talk about is the White House correspondence. Now, Sean McCrees did a great job asking that question. Now, sometimes you need to step back and get some perspective. I like Sean McCreesh. I thought it was a good question. I thought, finally someone is actually asking the question in the right way. But as I was listening to my friends across the pond do this on another network, they were actually surprised that he was getting so much applauded for doing something that should be done every single day by the White House correspondents or by any reporter in any market anywhere.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay? So don't be looking at me.

[Don Lemon]

Donald Trump has completely neutered, I believe, the press.

[Eugene Daniels]

Don, can we just pause for a second? I mean, Eugene used to be the president of the White House correspondent.

[Don Lemon]

We're going to talk about that. But we have to remember, too, there are some women in the White House correspondence corps that have been asking him tough questions for a long time. And he didn't respond to Sean McCrees the way that he responds to those women, by calling them piggies and out of their names.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so I didn't hear that. But shout out to the women who, you know, at least try, I think that they should be stronger. The entire White House press corps.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The White House corps.

[Don Lemon]

The White House press corps. Yeah, shout out to them. But I think that they could be doing a better job. And I am very disappointed that they invited Donald Trump to the White House correspondents Dinner because he does not believe in the First Amendment. It's a slap in the face to the American people that they even invited him.

[Eugene Daniels]

All right, let's pause. Eugene. Now, we have had extensive conversation about this. I've had it with Eugene. I've had it with, frankly, to be honest, other anchors at Ms. Now I've had it with other anchors not at this network, because when the President said that, he put out on his true social, which I think was a lie, to be honest, that, like, the dinner's gonna honor me. Every year, the President is invited to

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

dinner, and this is something that's really important.

[Eugene Daniels]

He just didn't come when he was in the first administration. But go ahead.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He is not the honoree.

[Eugene Daniels]

Who is the honoree?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Period. The journalists are the honorees. Period. Donald Trump will not be getting an award. There will not be A peace prize. That's not happening. Right. I am not involved in the planning of it this year, thank God. But I know that that is not happening now. This is where tradition and the moment. Right. The tradition has always been that the president of the WHCA invites the president of the United States. I did the same thing, okay. Last year. It was like in January, I sent an email to Caroline Levitt that had an invite for Donald Trump and Melania Trump and also for Caroline Levitt to come and sit on the dais with us. I never hear back. I heard that he wasn't coming the same way that everybody else did. She went on Sean Spicer's show podcast. I think that is asking now what's really important. What I said in the room that day is that the dinner is not about the president. The person, the people getting lauded is not the president. It's not the administration. We do not invite the President of the United States. Only when they are someone who loves reporters and they love the First Amendment, you invite them because they should. Right. And what we tried to do last year and what I assume they're gonna try and do this year is remind this president, remind this administration that at the end of the day, the First Amendment and journalists are key to democracy. Now, do they care about democracy? That's a question for them, but it is about.

[Eugene Daniels]

I would say that they do not care.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It is about when you have the person in front of you saying to them, this is what you should care about right now. How they are gonna do that this year, I don't know. But that is what we were read.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay, Don has a thought. Look at me, moderating the conversation.

[Don Lemon]

So let me just say this. I love you, Eugene, but I disagree with everything that you just said.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I know.

[Don Lemon]

Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. I am a living example of the president who does not care about the First Amendment.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You are.

[Don Lemon]

And a president who would rather jail reporters or journalists than hear the truth does not deserve the honor or the privilege to be able to sit in a room of people who do that. That tradition is not law. And we don't live in traditional times. And I think the best way to give the message to this president is to not invite him to an event that is based on the very First Amendment of the Constitution, which is freedom of speech and freedom of the press. That's what we're honoring. And if we're not honoring that president or the. The White House spokesperson, why did you invite them? Why do you have them there? Send a message to them. You don't believe in the First Amendment. You insult reporters, you call them names. You jail journalists. Then you are not even worthy of being a part of this. You try to dictate who can get a press pass, who can't get a press pass, what reporters can cover at the Pentagon. You don't believe in the Constitution, in the First Amendment. We believe in that. And the best way to show you is not to invite you to something that honors that, because you do not honor it as the leader of the free world. So I disagree with you. There is no way that I would invite this man to anything, especially to the White House Correspondence center, which is to honor our colleagues who put their lives on the line, many of them every single day, to be able to tell not just the American people, but the world the truth without fear or favor.

[Eugene Daniels]

There's a poem by Edgar Guest that I literally quote all the time whenever I go out and do a speech, when I speak at schools or anything. And it's called the Things that Haven't Been Done Before. And a part of the poem says, the things that haven't been done before, those are the things to try. And I do think that we are in a moment where some of the things that we have done before cannot be things that we continue to do. Because Don Lemon live streamed a protest in Minnesota. You were reporting on what was happening. Now, this was a group called Racial Justice Network, we're told, they say by a local journalist, that one of the pastors of the church, this church, called Cities Church, is also the field office Director of Enforcement and removal operations for ICE in St. Paul, Minnesota. Okay. As a man named David Easterwood, I'm giving the for the people version of what went on. Who very closely resembles one of the pastors on the church's website. That person on the website spoke at a press conference with Krissy Noem in October and said, I'm honored to lead the officers and staff of ICE ERO across Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska. Okay. So the protesters went into this church while the service was in progress, and Don was there covering it and livestreamed it all. Don can't say much about it, you know, get into much child, because he is not dropped. Like, this is active litigation that's going on, but because Don Lemon was doing his job. And it's very clear what you were doing interviewing people saying, I am not with this group. I'm covering it, asking everyone from all sides of the issue why they were there and what was Going on. And what did they think the government has come after? Don, I just wanna read from some of your federal indictment out loud because I wanna make sure that our listeners know exactly what you are being accused of. It's freaking crazy. And again, we know you don't wanna get into the specifics. Okay. You don't have to respond if you don't want to, baby, but I'm gonna read it. I got you. Go ahead.

[Don Lemon]

First of all, Simone, do you think I'm good?

[Eugene Daniels]

The top count is conspiracy. Conspiracy. In the indictment, you are included in a group of agitators. I'm using air quotes for the people at home. Now, 39 people who went into this church, as in what the indictment says is a coordinated takeover style attack, and engaged in what they say is acts of oppression. The grand jury alleges that as a result, young children were led to wonder, as one child put it, if their parents were going to die. A conspiracy requires overt acts in furtherance of it. And some of those listed in the indictment are that you peppered the pastor with questions. And then there is this sentence. Okay, okay. While talking with the pastors from the indictment, defendant Lemon stood so close to the pastor that Lemon caused the pastor's right hand to graze Lemon, who then admonished the pastor, please don't push me,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don.

[Eugene Daniels]

Don. So I understand. So I just say that I understand because this. They went and got Don outside his hotel in, in, in, in LA and arrested this man in the middle of the night. Arrested him, took his phone.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don, how are you doing? Let's start there. How are you doing?

[Eugene Daniels]

Are you trying to do what it's

[Don Lemon]

doing because you're sitting so close to her?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm just wondering. She's shaking herself.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm just saying I'm very fired up about this.

[Don Lemon]

So how am I doing? I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

This is not an easy thing. It's not an easy moment when you have the Department of Justice after you, when you having the government after you is not, not something that he's like, woo hoo, yay. And so, and it takes.

[Eugene Daniels]

Because I just want to know, people are saying that you want this, that you like it, that you're relishing in this tamale.

[Don Lemon]

You've worked in government.

[Eugene Daniels]

I know, I'm just telling you what

[Don Lemon]

the people are saying who've been targeted by the government. And there's nothing in this.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

So, no, I'm not relishing in this. But if I can take this opportunity to show people the importance of the First Amendment and freedom of the press. Press, then by all means I'm going to do that. And that's what I should be doing as a journalist. There is a reason that the First Amendment is the First Amendment. It's because it's the bedrock of our Constitution. And without the First Amendment, without the freedom of the press, all the other ones don't stand. And so that's so. Am I relishing this? Not at all. Do you think I like to be written about? Do you think, like every development in this case that has nothing to do with me always has my name on it because I had the biggest name recognition of anyone there? Do you think that that feels good? No, it doesn't. So anyone who says that is out of their rabid ass minds. That is completely 100% not true. But what I will say is I stand by my reporting. I stand by being a journalist. And I believe at the end of the day, the law will be on my side. And whatever that is, however long that takes, I will fight it to the best of my ability in the courts. And I believe that I will prevail.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Don, the question I have for you, actually, is when you were arrested, the White House X account posted a lemon emoji and chains. And I, as a black man who sees you as a mentor, as someone who has led the way for people that look like the two of us to be on television, to be doing the kind of work that we're doing. I saw that and I was shaken to my core about it. It was disturbing because they know what they're doing. I think. I think it is not an accident that they put chains in the imagery. That for the three of us, when we think about chains, we not. We don't think about necklaces, right? We think about the kinds of things that were wrapped around people that looked like us, our ancestors, and snatched them and brought them over to this country to keep those chains on them. When you think about the ways in which they did that, the ways in which you and Georgia Forth, the other reporter here who was charged, how are you taking that in?

[Don Lemon]

Well, that's a very good question. And I thought about those things as I was handcuffed. And I'm glad you realized that. I'm glad you understand it. You understand what they were doing. And I think young people, most people understand what they were doing. As I said, when I came out of the courtroom after being locked up, I said that the process is a punishment. And so I believe that that's what they're looking for. And they're also looking to embarrass people. And, you know, I had one of my friends who's a very good former prosecutor, said, you know what they're doing, Don? Because we offer to self report, which means turn yourself in. She said, what they're doing is giving you the treatment. And that means they want to treat you like. I guess that would mean a slave enslaved people who were shackled. And I'm not sure what she. But that's how I took it. Or the many black men in this country who are locked up at an alarming rate, at a more alarming rate than our white counterparts, even though the crime statistics don't match the number of people who are being locked up. And so I believe that that's what they wanted. I think that they obviously know what they're doing. If that's what they want, then that's what they want. I'm not going to let that steal my joy. But at the end of the day, I believe that I will have the last word and I will be able to write about that, tell my story to come on your show on Ms. Now and also to come back on Clock it and we'll talk about it. We'll talk about the First Amendment and the freedom of the press prevailing even as this president goes to the White House Correspondence Dinner and turns it into an event about him. Eugene,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

you know what?

[Eugene Daniels]

This is a nice place to end. Don, we love and appreciate you. And I do think it's important to say that that Don could have been silent. He could have fought this silently. You know, he is not for lack of coin. Y' all see the high quality sweaters and the glasses? He could have fought this silently. But I think you speaking up and speaking out and being very clear eyed about this moment is helpful for everybody out there. So I thank you, my friend.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you. Simone. Let me just say this, okay? Because we are. I'm an independent journalist, and we rely on the public. We don't have big corporate sponsorships. So become a member or subscriber to the Don Lemon show, go to YouTube or Twitch or substack and just become a member, free or paid. Because it does help us, and it helps us with advertisers and with sponsorships, and that's how we stay streaming. So the Don Lemon show on YouTube, et cetera, and any other independent media or journalist, support that. And also, please support the Committee to Protect Journalists. That's who I've been donating resources to. Any journalistic organization. The national association of Black Journalists. The national association of Gay and Lesbian Journalists. As NLGJA of journalists as well. So support journalists, please. That's what this is about.

[Eugene Daniels]

Little fist emoji. We'll be right back.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Come on. Thank you, Don.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Eugene Daniels]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That's three wins this season.

[Don Lemon]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Tonight's meal, Tilapia surprise with boiled cabbage. Begin cooking steps 1 through 50 now.

[Eugene Daniels]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

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[Eugene Daniels]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Welcome back and thank y' all for coming to the side chat. This is where we separate ourselves from the main chapter. Share more feelings, real feelings. And first I just want to say about Don is that I hope people listen to and like not just hear, but listen to what he is saying about journalism. Because I think people have talked about the packaging, right? About Don. And Don is on the front lines of this. Not because he wanted to be. I do not think Don Lemon wants. I do not think Georgia Ford wants. Correct.

[Eugene Daniels]

That's why I asked him about it, because I thought it was. You hear what people have said privately, people whom we've worked with, people who we may work with now, people who are respected in this industry. And I see what some of those same people think they write on social media that people don't see. But we clocking it Correct. And I think it is despicable the way in which people have spoken about Don Lemon. Not just because he's my friend, but because I respect what it is that he does. And I know that they are targeting Don just like they targeted Georgia Ford, just like they targeted Lisa Cook. Just like they. There's a message long. Just like they tried to target Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Because they. The proverbial. They seem to think that black people are easy targets, but they picked the right one, as my mother would say,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

because he has coin and he has a fight in him. All right, the coining is coining. The coin is coining. Okay, let's be very clear now. I wanna go to something that we have been talking about a lot.

[Eugene Daniels]

I think you are wrong.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I am right here, y'. All. So y' all know we've been talking AI. We've talked about it. I look at this in his paper, his little paper. Come on now. This is NBC. They just dropped a new national poll. A thousand registered voters.

[Eugene Daniels]

Oh, a national poll of a thousand registered voters. Representative of America.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That's how your boss decided to run for president. Moving on. The only topics that voters viewed more negatively than AI were the Democratic Party and Iraq. Now, there are so many stories about. Look at this story after story of

[Eugene Daniels]

who gave you this research. I'm gonna have to speak to Iggy,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

because at the end of the day,

[Eugene Daniels]

Iggy Monda, I will be in your office.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Did you recall Iggy? There's so many things that are happening with AI One of them is that Claude. This is the guy. This is the one from Anthropic. The little AI from Anthropic. They said he has anxiety. Now, why the hell does the robot have anxiety?

[Eugene Daniels]

If you need to get Claude's pronouns right, Claude is a they.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh, excuse me, baby.

[Eugene Daniels]

I would. Come on. Claude is a.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They have anxiety, and they are a damn robot.

[Eugene Daniels]

So he's like, you know what? This world is anxious. Let me just say something.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Y' all stressing that robot out.

[Eugene Daniels]

I don't think this little thousand people sample poll vindicates you.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I bet you don't.

[Eugene Daniels]

But I do believe that it does speak to the concerns that there, at least a small subset of people across this country, including you, have about AI but would you say that to be clear, you have gray skin, but I know you use a filter on Instagram every now and then.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

She doesn't use a filter.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, and never a filter.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I do not use a filter.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay, okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I do not use a filter.

[Eugene Daniels]

I never use a filter. If I ever catch you with a Paris filter, I'm gonna be like, look at you using AI When y' all are Googling Things and your little summary come up at the top. And you using the summary, that's AI when you are speaking to Siri, Siri is AI. So we are using AI in our lives every single day. Now the clause and the chatgpt, it is different. But either we gonna understand how to use it and get in on the ground floor so we can use it to our advantage, or we gonna be left behind.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Now this is the thing, we might wanna get on the ground floor. But the people that built that floor are the billionaires who don't seem to be looking out for you. Checking on Claude and you using Claude to figure out, you know, can I make my room this size or what's the stinkiest thing.

[Eugene Daniels]

This is true because the Anthropic CEO did apologize for the spat that spilled out into the public between them and the Pentagon. Because Anthropic had basically rules around what they wanted, the Pentagon, what they could and could not do with their AI. So the Pentagon said, well, we gonna cancel their contract. But I read an AP story this morning that said they use AI to bomb to target Iran. And so I will just note that, look, I'm using Claude, I'm using ChatGPT, I'm using Opus Clips as I'm getting my clips out very quickly. Eugene likes the clips being clipped out. AI is for me. But we do need to be vigilant on these companies. I will never cater for a billionaire. I would love to be one.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Correct.

[Eugene Daniels]

Love to be one. I would be an ethical billionaire. Give me the coin.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

No. I will rob her if she becomes a billionaire. That is 100% effect.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're gonna stay on this AI tip. I'm gonna be working on Mr. Daniels,

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I talked to Siri and that's it. And I say thank you, Siri after so that when they take over, they know I was nice to them.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay, how about something we can agree on, which is are you gonna watch the Oscars?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, I will.

[Eugene Daniels]

Where will you be watching it?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

At home? I do not go to Oscar parties. I like to be at my house.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm a whole. You. Yes, I wanna be at your house too, if you haven't unpacked all your boxes. So, yes, you actually need to be at home.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I need to be at home. Will you be rooting for everybody Black?

[Eugene Daniels]

Exactly. I'm gonna have my jacket on. I have rooting for everybody. Black jacket.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I think that like the.

[Eugene Daniels]

Also.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Did you hear that they're going in the performances. The Sinner's cast is going to be doing the song that they better not

[Eugene Daniels]

have him up there performing and they don't win it. Let me just tell you something. They better not have Ryan and Wumi and Michael B. Jordan up on that stage. And my girl and the young guy with the guitar and they don't win it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And Delroy Lynch, Misty Copeland is going to dance on stage with me that

[Eugene Daniels]

she broke her baby.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

She gonna be up there. I don't know what she gonna be

[Eugene Daniels]

doing, but she emailed Misty.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, Misty.

[Eugene Daniels]

I'm gonna email her because let her do it. I'm not trying to block Misty, but I'm concerned for her health.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Her name is on the list. I will say this. I think that the actor awards where Michael won, it throws things out of the loop. People a little upset with Mr. Timothy for saying he don't like ballet and opera. So now, so now the people knock

[Eugene Daniels]

you on the stage and I found

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

a people's ballerina, I would just say. And I talked to some voters within the academy who have said the recent things that have been happening have influenced votes. So we will see.

[Eugene Daniels]

We will see. Well, with that being said, thank you for joining us. It was amazing. This is episode five. Don told the people to rate his stuff and like it. They should do that. Subscribe to Don. They need to rate this podcast.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Do it to us.

[Eugene Daniels]

Rate the podcast. We are also shout out to the people in the Apple podcast podcast comment. Yes, because we are looking at your ratings and your words and like we will make sure this episode is no longer than 45 minutes because we heard your feedback. Thank you.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Thanks so much for listening to Clock It. You can subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts to get this and other MSNow podcasts ad free. As a subscriber, you'll also get exclusive bonus content. All episodes of Clockett are also available on YouTube. Visit Ms. Now. Clock it to watch.

[Eugene Daniels]

Clock it is produced by Franny Kelly. Our associate producer is Iggy Monda. Additional production support from Brittany Ruff, Malcolm Thomas, Adrianna Thomas, Elayah Gibbs Jones and Colette Holcomb.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Our director is Renee Amro and Lou Visconti and Emily Gaines are our control room operators. Our stage manager is Brian Gessner. Our lighting director is is John Shurtler and our Robocam operator is Taylor Hickman. Duriki Rice is our video operator. Michael Connell is our tech operator and Paul Driscoll is our tech production operator. Many thanks to Alana Lee. Our audio engineers are Greg Debbins II Hazik Ben Ahmed Farad. And Matt Bauer.

[Eugene Daniels]

Katie Lau is the senior manager of audio production, Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNow Audio and Madeline is senior Vice President in charge of audio, digital and Long Form.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Our theme music is by Jesse McGinty

[Eugene Daniels]

and we're your hosts, Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

See you next week at Pink Pony Club.

[Eugene Daniels]

I' ma keep on dancing

[Don Lemon]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

may cause low blood sugar.

[Don Lemon]

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