Kash Patel, Gavin Newsom, and a Very "Raggedy" Black History Month

Summary

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MS NOW Presents: Clock It

Episode: Kash Patel, Gavin Newsom, and a Very “Raggedy” Black History Month

Hosts: Simone Sanders Townsend & Eugene Daniels

Guest: Dr. Mark Lamont Hill

Date: February 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels break down the striking convergence of politics, culture, and media following Trump's State of the Union address, the BAFTAs controversy, racism in soccer, and government hypocrisy. They address how Trump’s administration weaponizes culture, dissect performative responses to racism during Black History Month, and invite Dr. Mark Lamont Hill to analyze everything from Gavin Newsom’s Atlanta remarks to the landscape of political performance in 2026.
Episode Mood: Candid, exasperated, insightful, and unfiltered—peppered with humor, side-eye, and a demand for accountability.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Trump's State of the Union: Performance, Propaganda, and Pushback

[01:48 – 03:37]

• Panel Reaction: The hosts and progressive members of Congress (Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib) call out Trump’s falsehoods, especially regarding immigration and election integrity.
  • Simone: “He has given us his playbook.” [02:58]
  • Eugene: “They’re telling everyone what they’re going to do.” [03:05]
• Foreshadowing and Election Rigging: The hosts highlight how Trump openly lays groundwork to delegitimize any unfavorable midterm results, echoing his first term tactics.

[24:36 – 29:33] with Dr. Mark Lamont Hill

• Performative Patriotism: Handing out medals, using the military and Olympians as props, and pivoting away from real policy discussions.
  • Simone: “He was using our Military, our servicemen and women, and even the US Men's hockey team as political props, and I don't think they should have…” [23:06]
  • Mark Hill: “It’s a belief that the American people aren’t smart enough to see what’s in front of them.” [24:49]
• Democratic Response: Critique of Democratic “silent defiance” at the State of the Union and call for more vocal, visible opposition.
  • Simone: “Silent defiance for somebody like Donald Trump…is just background noise.” [26:46]
  • Eugene: “Democrats…their reaction to being on offense is to play it safe.” [27:36]

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2. The BAFTAs & Cultural Insensitivity

[05:04 – 09:41]

• Incident: John Davidson, Tourette’s advocate, shouts the N-word during Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo’s presentation. The BAFTAs air it unbleeped.
  • Simone (on organizers): “Why did the BAFTAs not address this better?...Understanding is not gonna meet the moment.” [08:08]
  • Eugene: “My biggest issue is with the BAFTA because…they made a choice to leave this man yelling the N word…A disservice to Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan.” [07:23]
• Responsibility and Apologies: While understanding Davidson’s condition, both hosts demand real apologies from BAFTAs rather than vague calls for “understanding.”
• Insider Perspective: Sanders Townsend reports a firsthand account from a friend in the room who pressed BAFTA leadership to communicate immediately. They delayed. [09:06]
  • Simone: “Understanding is not enough.”

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3. Racism in Sports: Vini Jr., Monkey Slurs, and A “Raggedy” Black History Month

[09:42 – 11:58]

• Soccer Incident: Brazilian star Vini Jr. is called “monkey” on the field, his teammate speaking out.
  • Eugene: “A monkey five times. I would like a redo of Black History Month…this 28 days has been raggedy as hell.” [10:52]
• Black History Month Woes: The accumulation of racist incidents (BAFTAs, soccer, presidential dog-whistles) makes this February feel especially “raggedy.”
  • Simone: “I want a redo, and I want a 31 day redo. Cause these 28 days has been raggedy as hell.” [11:10]
• Lack of Accountability: Both hosts note the absence of organizational apologies or meaningful reactions across institutions.
  • Simone: “Vinnie, we're sorry. D. Roy Lane, we are sorry. Michael B. Jordan, we're sorry.” [11:58]

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4. Government Hypocrisy & Kash Patel’s Olympic ‘Tour’

[12:12 – 16:44]

• Kash Patel’s Contradiction: Former "defund-the-FBI-plane" hardliner now joyrides to the Winter Olympics on taxpayer-funded jets.
  • Simone: “He flew on an FBI Gulfstream jet…about $75,000. That's your money.” [13:41]
  • Eugene: “I love Beyoncé. I love to go to Beyoncé concerts. I don’t use Ms. Now’s credit card to do it.” [15:01]
• Official Narrative vs. Reality: FBI claims official meetings justified the trip; media and politicians skeptical about appropriateness.
• Impact: Delays and missed FBI access during emergencies due to Patel’s personal use.
  • Eugene: “I have lots of questions. Not a lot of answers.” [16:40]

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5. Texas GOP Scandal: Power, Morality & Infidelity

[16:49 – 19:31]

• Tony Gonzalez Affair & Fallout: An affair between a Congressman and a staffer leads to suicide, mounting political and moral pressure, and hypocrisy from House leadership.
  • Simone (on Speaker Mike Johnson): “I thought Mike Johnson was a bible toting member of the caucus.” [18:35]
  • Eugene: “Decisions that require moral clarity…politics often win out in this country.” [18:46]
• Moral Values vs. Political Expediency: House leadership with razor-thin majority chooses politics over accountability.

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6. Gavin Newsom in Atlanta: Relatability or Tone-Deaf?

[29:38 – 34:53]

• Viral Video Reaction: Newsom’s self-deprecating remarks about his “960 SAT” and dyslexia go viral, interpreted by some as tone-deaf and pandering.
  • Eugene: “He is trying to be relatable…for a lot of Black people…the way it came off…felt off to them.” [31:06]
• Dr. Hill’s Counterpoint: Offers context—majority-white room, message consistent across demographics, but internet and right-wing spread a misleading narrative.
  • Dr. Hill: “If you bring steak on a trash can, people focus on the trash…the internet brought it as ‘listen to Newsom telling a room full of black voters that he's like them.’ But it was 80% white.” [32:23]
  • Simone (on disinfo): “A little clip gets out, and it's like somebody didn't listen to the whole conversation…words are hard.” [34:09]
• Lesson: Viral moments rarely contain the full context; both political foes and allies need to be wary of how such soundbites are weaponized.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Eugene Daniels (on February events):
  • “I would like a redo of Black History Month. This 28 days has been raggedy as hell.” [10:52]
• Simone Sanders Townsend (on BAFTAs debacle):
  • “I'm tired of people ask me for understanding, not just during Black History Month, but every month of the year.” [08:08]
• Dr. Mark Lamont Hill (on Newsom video):
  • “If in a room of 800 white people and 200 black people he said ‘I'm just like you, I can't read’…why are you so sure he’s talking to the black people?”
• Eugene Daniels (on Democrats):
  • “Democrats…their reaction to being on offense is to play it safe.” [27:36]
• Simone Sanders Townsend (on Democratic strategy):
  • “Silent defiance for somebody like Donald Trump…is just background noise. The American people are looking to know that the Democrats understand the assignment.” [26:46]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:48 – 03:45] State of the Union reaction, Trump’s playbook, “foreshadowing” election denial strategy
• [05:04 – 09:41] BAFTAs N-word controversy, handling public apologies, expectations for institutions
• [09:42 – 11:58] Racism in sports, “raggedy” Black History Month, Vini Jr. soccer incident
• [12:12 – 16:44] Kash Patel’s Olympics trip, government hypocrisy, “do as I say, not as I do”
• [16:49 – 19:31] Texas GOP affair, suicide, political fall out, “family values” debate
• [22:00 – 29:33] Dr. Mark Lamont Hill guest segment, State of the Union, Democrats’ strategic dilemmas
• [29:38 – 34:53] Gavin Newsom in Atlanta, viral video analysis, context & disinformation

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Unfiltered, spirited, and critical yet humorous. The hosts strike a balance between sharp political analysis and lived frustration with how culture and politics collide, especially for people of color.
• Takeaway: In a political climate where culture is the battlefield, understanding context, demanding accountability, and maintaining vigilance against disinformation is paramount. Black History Month 2026 is rough, institutions are under fire, and the work of decoding politics in real time isn’t slowing down.

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For Listeners:

“Clock It” offers not just recap, but real talk and the context behind the day’s most contentious stories—reminding us that the news, like culture, is always up for analysis, critique, and, when warranted, a demand for something better.

Transcript

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

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[Political Commentator]

if you agree with this statement, then stand up and show your support. First duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens. In that shame, you should be ashamed of yourself. Not standing up. You should be ashamed of yourself. That is why I'm also asking you to end deadly sanctuary cities that protect the criminals and enact serious penalties for public officials who block the removal of criminal aliens. In many cases drug lords, murderers all over our country. They're blocking the removal of these people out of our country and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That was Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota reacting to the first State of the Union address of Trump's second term. Also sitting there was Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. Eugene and I had a a similar reaction, honestly, on Ms. Now's YouTube live stream. Especially to the moments when the President of the United States told very easily disprovable lies over and over again.

[Political Commentator]

The cheating is rampant in our election.

[Eugene Daniels]

It is not. That is a. That is a lie. There is millions of people are not voting illegally in this country. That is not happening. It's not. It's still not today. But Donald Trump still continues to push the SAVE Act. It is this voter ID bill that could block millions of folks like you from voting.

[Political Commentator]

Why would anybody not want voter id? One reason. Because they want to cheat. There's only one reason. They make up all excuses. They say it's racist. They come up with things. You almost say what imagination they have. They want to cheat. They have cheated and their policy is so bad that the only way they can get elected is to cheat. And we're going to stop it. We have to stop it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Josh, I have been saying people really need to keep an eye on the foreshadowing. Not even foreshadowing. He has given us his playbook.

[Eugene Daniels]

They're telling everyone what they're going to do.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They're telling us very clearly what they are trying to do. By they I mean the President and his team and they are preparing to argue that frankly, if the results of the midterm elections do not go their

[Eugene Daniels]

way and they don't look like they

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

are tea leaves child are not looking good that they are rigged. That's what the President is going to say. But honestly, I've talked about say union left with you. Eugene, I'm gonna be honest, I'm actually tired of just talking to you about it. Luckily, we will be joined later by Dr. Mark Lamont Hill, who's an author, educator and himself a podcast host. And he was watching too.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, but we don't wanna only talk to him about the state of the union because there's a lot of other things happening as well. We're in the middle of a whole lot of other news. Simone.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

So much news. Uh huh. Mexico killed a cartel leader and the cartel made his displeasure known by setting buses on the. We are still waiting for Trump to decide also if we are invading Iran.

[Eugene Daniels]

That's little things. Just little things, guys. We're still waiting to find out if we're getting money back from the tariffs the Supreme Court said are illegal. I would like to know if I will be getting a refund for the 8.75% surcharge I've been paying to cover Fenty Beauty and also my sweatsuits and the Korean skincare Rihanna. Are we getting our money back? Are you getting your money back?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And you can get it at least is she gonna get her coins back and then the consumer's gonna get theirs? That's the question on the table. As Jemele Hill told us last week on clockx, she was our yes, it's not a new major story every day. It's every 15 minutes. It feels like sometimes, honestly every 30 seconds I'm scared to look at my phone right now. So while all of that has been happening, Eugene, we've had some group chat conversations. What has been in our group chat this week?

[Eugene Daniels]

I don't know. I think that maybe something may have happened while Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo were on stage in London. We're going to talk about it. Cash Patel, the FBI director, went to the Olympics on yo dime. And a primary in Texas is up for grabs after one of the candidate's affairs with the staffer came out. It is not the Democrats. Just to be very clear, it's the Republican fight, correct?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Correct.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's true.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Let's get into it. Let's do it. My phone was literally blowing up over the weekend around this insane incident at the BAFTAs. Eugene was actually the chief person blowing my phone up.

[Eugene Daniels]

Lots of questions.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Correct. Okay. So the BAFTAs, it's like the British version of the Oscars for people that don't know. And a Tourette's advocate named John Davidson was actually in the audience because there's a biopic about him that was upfront award. So, you know, you bring the people. It all seemed great and good, but when Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo of Sinner's fame were on stage presenting, he shouted the N word. And I want to be clear, it was a hard er.

[Delroy Lindo]

Delroy and I are delighted to be

[Eugene Daniels]

presenting the first BAFTA of the night for a vital part of movie making. We're here to celebrate the artists who expand what's possible on screen.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Visual effects can create spectacle. You hear how we bleeped it? It wasn't bleeped.

[Eugene Daniels]

It was not bleeped.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That was us. That was an edit we made. It was not bleeped. Now, you know, one of my good girlfriends was at the bafta. Okay, she was at the bafta. She does a lot of beauty consulting work. We call her the Olivia Pope of the beauty world, actually.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes, we loved her.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And so she was there. They did some events in connection with the BAFTAs. And so she attended, you know, with the. You know, with the. With the people in charge. She was sitting two rows behind Mr. John Davidson. And she told me, and she's talked about this publicly. So I don't now. I don't. I don't. I'm fine to just, you know, give the tea. But she told me that it was insane in the room. And that interruption that we heard, that outburst with the N word, it wasn't the first one. There were multiple other outbursts that night, but this one seemed very specific. Now, even though John Davidson has put out a statement to Variety since then saying what I yell as a part of this, you know, syndrome that I have is not a reflection of my intentions. It's not a reflection of what I believe, it's actually the opposite. But in that statement that he put out, I'm gonna be honest, I have not seen an apology. But if not on Him. What about the Baftas? Why did the Baftas not address this better?

[Eugene Daniels]

My issue is not with Mr. Davidson. It's not right. This is something he's been dealing with. There are people and influencers, black ones, who are explaining how Tourette's work and that it isn't an example of how you feel.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Right. But you still have to say sorry. Like, if I hit you with my purses, I'm walking out.

[Eugene Daniels]

You.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It was an accident. I say I'm sorry about that.

[Eugene Daniels]

But my biggest issue is with the bafta because at the end of the day, they decided to let it stay in and air while. While you guys, they bleached out and cut out other things. Like someone said free Palestine in their speech. That got cut out. So they have the ability to cut things out. But they chose and made a choice to leave this man yelling the N word out. It was a disservice to Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan. It was a disservice to Mr. Davidson as well. And the people who are watching, they made a decision of what they wanted represent the BAFTAs, their award show, and their organization. And I still have not heard a good enough apology from them at this point. It's very much like, we're very sorry people are offended. Thank you for creating a space where everyone can be. That's not the issue.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They asked for understanding. And to be very clear, the floor manager at the Baftas warned the audience in advance that Mr. Davidson has Tourette's syndrome. And so they asked people to please be aware that you might hear some involuntary noises or movements during the ceremony. After the N word debacle, the host of the BAFTAs that night got to come in, ask for understanding. Let me tell you something. I'm tired of people ask me for understanding, not just during Black History Month, but every month of the year. Why do I have to have some understanding about the N word as the host? There are many, many a times where I have been asked to say something, whether I've been hosting a show or whether I've been someone's spokesperson. And I am responsible for what comes out of my mouth. Corre been like, you know what? I'm sorry. We need to say sorry. Understanding is not gonna meet the moment. Now, my good girlfriend went to the Baptist people.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah. What did she say to that?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And she told them, understanding is not enough. She told the executive director, the conference director. They was in a huddle. Child Olivia Popa Beauty was working for.

[Eugene Daniels]

Well, they're not listening to her.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They did not Listen to her. They said, okay, well, we're gonna need to put out a statement tomorrow. And she said, no, you're gonna need a statement tonight. And she had to show them on her phone how this was blowing up on social media and said, hey, this has hit the US So it's not like the Baptists didn't know. So they have missed the mark. I am looking forward to the Michael B. Jordan Lifetime Achievement Award.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The Baptist is gonna start giving out and Delroy Lindo, because, to be clear, the grace that they showed in that moment, I'm not surprised that they showed the grace I have. Surprised that they showed it.

[Eugene Daniels]

Very happy.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not surprised they showed it, but

[Eugene Daniels]

very happy for them.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Not during Black History Month. I'm tired.

[Eugene Daniels]

And another thing.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah. Oh, there's more. Right? Because superstar athletes, they have also been enduring abuse while they're just doing their jobs. Do you know who Vinnie Jr. Is?

[Eugene Daniels]

Only because the producers told me.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. All right. Well, for people that don't know, Vinnie Jr. Is a Brazilian soccer player for Real Madrid. Not Real Madrid. It's some people might say real folks, y'.

[Eugene Daniels]

All.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And during a recent game, Vinnie claimed that another player covered his mouth, that the player covered his mouth with his own jersey to call Vinnie a monkey. And now, Eugene, let me just. Let me just tell you, Vinnie Jr. S teammate, Mr. Mbappe, he was speaking, doing an interview with CBS Sports broadcaster Kate Scott, and he described the incident from his perspective on the field. This is what he said. And this is Kate Scott translating for him. Take a listen, because the player, number 25 from Benfico, I don't want to say his name because he doesn't deserve it. Who starts speaking badly. I don't accept that. But it happens in football. He then put his over his mouth to call Vinny a monkey. Five times. I heard it. There were Benfica players who heard it, too.

[Eugene Daniels]

A monkey five times. I would like a redo of Black History Month. I feel like between the President's monkey video, this monkey thing, the baftas, I want a redo. I want a redo, and I want a 31 day redo. Cause this 28 days has been raggedy as hell.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Raggedy is an understatement. I don't understand why people always pick this month to act a fool every time. I do not understand. The Monkees is a choice. Okay? The reaction to the N word at the BAFTAs is a choice. Why Juvini Jr. S teammates have to go out and do interviews saying that, like, yeah, no, this definitely happened. He said this. Where is the accountability for the team? Where is accountability for the owners? What is going on in the soccer world, in the football world?

[Eugene Daniels]

You know what's interesting? There's actually a lot of racism. A lot of athletes in general. In general. In. In sp. And that people don't know that, like, especially when you have people with black skin, brown skin, playing in different countries, on different teams, even sometimes the fans are terrible to them. It's bad. And Vinnie, we're sorry.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Vinnie, we're sorry. D. Roy Lane, we are sorry. Michael B. Jordan, we're sorry. Cuz the bastards ain't apologized to them. Michael B. Jordan, the team ain't apologizing to Benny and them. We saying sorry on behalf of all the. Mm, mm, mm. Who should have said sorry?

[Eugene Daniels]

Exactly. There was some additional sports news that caught our attention. It has to be big to catch our attention. Do y' all remember when FBI director. Your FBI Director Casper Tell said this?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh, yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'm not saying take all their funding.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not the defund everything guy. I'm just saying Chris Wray doesn't need a government funded G5 jet to go to vacation.

[Commercial Announcer]

Maybe we ground that plane 15,000 every

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

time it takes off.

[Eugene Daniels]

Well, how times have changed. That was cash Patel in December 2023. He was on Glenn Beck's podcast. Now cut to Sunday night when I saw this video go across my feed texting Ms. Simone Sanders Townsend about it. This is Patel in Milan in the hockey locker room having a good old.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Now, let's talk about the Winter Olympics. Okay, first of all, if you have not seen this video and y' all are listening on wherever you get your podcast, go Google it. Cash Patel is having a good old stinking nasty time drinking in Milan in his USA Today gear. He's in the locker room like he just won. Now, it's important to note that Cash Patel is actually a very big US Hockey fan.

[Eugene Daniels]

Great.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Which is why he felt it was appropriate, apparently, to use US tax dollars to fly over to Milano during the 2026 Winter Games to watch them play. He flew on an FBI Gulfstream jet. Do you wanna know how much it cost?

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Tell the people about $75,000.

[Eugene Daniels]

That's your money.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He was drinking beers, jumping with the players, and then the President of the United States actually called in to Cash Patel's cell phone, and Cash Patel put it on speaker.

[Political Commentator]

I just told my people two minutes ago. I didn't know they'd be calling. I said, we're giving the State of the Union So. Speech on Tuesday night. I could send a military plane or something. But if you would like to. It's a. It's the coolest night. It's the biggest.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're in.

[Political Commentator]

Can you pick.

[Eugene Daniels]

Can you pick us up in Miami on Tuesday morning?

[Franny Kelly]

Every Tuesday morning.

[Political Commentator]

We'll just have some fun. We have medals for you guys. And we have to. I must tell you, we're going to have to bring the woman's team.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You do know that.

[Political Commentator]

I do believe I probably would be impeached. Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I do believe I would probably be impeached if the women's team wasn't invited. And then people were laughing. What is so funny about inviting the women? Look, I'm not Cash Patel.

[Eugene Daniels]

Why not?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Go ahead.

[Eugene Daniels]

Back up. Back the truck up. Cash Patel.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

My point is, I'm not a hater.

[Eugene Daniels]

Your money. Yes, correct.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes, I'm not a hater.

[Eugene Daniels]

But we have lots of questions. I don't mind that he went to it at all. Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan was over there watching Games. The issue.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I would've liked to be at the Olympics.

[Eugene Daniels]

I would've loved to be there. I love Beyonce. Love Beyonce. I love to go to Beyonce concerts. I don't use Ms. Now's credit card to do it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Baby. If you did, you would be correct.

[Eugene Daniels]

It'd be Cockett starring Simone by herself. And rest in peace, Eugene Square.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And rest in peace, Eugene's career.

[Eugene Daniels]

But he is utilizing his position and the money that the American people paid to protect them and for him to do his job, getting on this jet. And he's not just going over to the Olympics. He's gonna go see his girlfriend in concert. There are a lot of different ways in which he's misusing it. And hypocrisy wouldn't be so crazy if he himself had not said over and over again that Chris Wray shouldn't be.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The tying we had to take. We just rolled it. The FBI spokesperson said that the trip was legit.

[Franny Kelly]

Eugene.

[Eugene Daniels]

Sure.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They said that the trip included meetings with Italian law enforcement.

[Eugene Daniels]

Oh, great.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That the ambassador had meetings with him. The U.S. consulate did a briefing with him on Olympic security. Some of those were held in Rome. The FBI director had to be there. You know, Senator Dick Durbin, who. Senator out of Illinois who is retiring, by the way. He sent a letter to the Department of Justice because that is what members of Congress do to register their discontent. He sent it to the DOJ inspector general before the State of the Union, basically asking, what's going on here?

[Eugene Daniels]

Where's the stuff.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Where's the stuff? He was noting that the FBI's G5 was actually unavailable during the Brown University shooting in December because Patel was using it to visit his parents. Doesn't seem appropriate to me.

[Eugene Daniels]

I have lots of questions.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Lots of questions.

[Eugene Daniels]

Not a lot of answers. Not a lot of answers.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's really crazy.

[Eugene Daniels]

Not at all.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I could talk about Kash Patel all day.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're not gonna do that.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

But we will not be doing that.

[Eugene Daniels]

There's also a brewing in Texas, and I'm not. Remember, I have a Texas tattoo. I have to remind you guys, when I have that, it's very confused. Congressman Tony Gonzalez, he's a Republican. He represents the 23rd, which is a very big district. It's on the border with Mexico. It goes all the way from El Paso to San Antonio.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's the largest district in Texas.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's huge. He's in his third term. He's Trump endorsed. He is facing a primary challenge. On February 17, the San Antonio Express News published text messages between two people who worked in his office talking about how one of them had an affair with Congress. The next day, the husband of the staffer who had the affair with him talks to the paper. He says, yeah, Tony Gonzalez badgered my wife and is sleeping with him. And when I confronted him, he froze out. My wife. She became depressed and she died by suicide this fall. Now that this story is out, Tony Gonzalez is under a lot of pressure from Republicans and Democrats to leave. But so far, the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, who has a very teeny, tiny majority in the House, is sticking beside him. Listen to this.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

The allegations are. I mean, it's detestable. What is being alleged. My understanding is he's denied a lot of this, and we're trying to sort it out now. It has been reported that the Office of Congressional Conduct is investigating this and has been for some time. And what we do here is we allow all the facts to play out. That's what we must do.

[Eugene Daniels]

So interesting that now he's waiting for due process, waiting for all the facts. He doesn't do that on literally any other issue at all. We reached out msnow reached out to Tony Gonzalez for commentary. We have yet to receive a response, but Gonzalez made a statement to the Texas Tribune.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

What did that one say?

[Eugene Daniels]

He blamed his primary opponent for the text messages making their way to the newspaper. He said, quote, it's shameful that Brandon Herrera is using a disgruntled former staffer to smear her memory and score political points.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

His response is very like, cynical. He's trying to use her as a shield. And I'm just. I'm sick. I'm sick. I thought Mike Johnson was a bible toting member of the caucus.

[Eugene Daniels]

But he's also someone who knows what his numbers look like. And I think it is very interesting. Interesting that when decisions have to be made that require moral clarity, that politics often win out in this country. That has been happening for a very long time, but I think every time it happens, it's a surprise and it should be shocking. We should be concerned about it. I think the numbers are dwindling in his House majority.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I mean, he's got less than a three seat majority at this point. As we have this conversation. It might only be a one seat

[Eugene Daniels]

majority depending on when you do it, who knows? But I think at the end of the day, this is a majority question, not like did is it bad? And it's a moral clarity question from a party who says they are a party of family values.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

This is not giving family values. It's giving inappropriate and adultery. Child, we're gonna take a break right here.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're in trouble.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

We' pause. We're gonna take a beating of breath.

[Eugene Daniels]

Deep breath.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And we're gonna come back with Professor Mark Lamont Hill so we can talk a little more about the state of the Union. Cause I'm tired of talking about it with Eugene and also what Gavin Newsom was saying in Atlanta.

[Political Commentator]

Hey, girl.

[Eugene Daniels]

What's happen?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Is that your antiperspirant? Uh, yeah. Let me see that can. Aluminum butane. I cannot pronounce that. You have to switch to native deodorant. Native's simple formula has only clean ingredients. It gives you effective 72 hour odor protection with no hydrocarbon propellants.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

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[Commercial Announcer]

People act like the culture war started five minutes ago.

[Franny Kelly]

Meanwhile, adults have been panicking about books since forever.

[Commercial Announcer]

Bandcamp, our top ranked podcast about band books, is back for its 10th season. This time around, we're reading J.D. salinger's classic, the Catcher in the Rye. We're reading the book out loud, cover to cover, one chapter per episode, by the way.

[Franny Kelly]

We have no clue what's going to happen. We should have read this book in school. I don't know why neither of us did. So you're basically going to hear us stumbling over words, trying to figure it

[Eugene Daniels]

out as we go.

[Franny Kelly]

It's going to be embarrassing.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's going to be chaos.

[Commercial Announcer]

So if you've never read it before but always wanted to, or you want to experience it again through a set of new eyes, now's your chance.

[Franny Kelly]

That sounds like your kind of show. You already know where to find us. That's band camp. Band like in band books. Not band like tubas and snare drums.

[Eugene Daniels]

Welcome back. Mark Lamont Hill is an academic, a writer, an analyst, and an activist. Y' all know who he is. He hosts.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He has a lot of jobs.

[Eugene Daniels]

Lots of jobs. Lots of black jobs. He hosts upfront for Al Jazeera and Night School on his own YouTube channel. He is correspondent for BET News and a co host of the Joe Budden Podcast. Lots of things happen on that. Y' all should watch it. He is also our friend, and we are very grateful to have him in here. Made the trek in the snow, sort

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

of in the studio. Welcome to the group chat, Mark. Okay, Mark, where would you like to start? It's insane in the streets.

[Franny Kelly]

I did. It was long.

[Eugene Daniels]

Very long.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It was long. 47 minutes.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes.

[Franny Kelly]

There's so much ego attached to that.

[Eugene Daniels]

That's interesting.

[Franny Kelly]

Like, I need to have the world's biggest. This, the world's whatever. The world's longest State of the Union address. I'm gonna have the longest one. Y' all gonna sit here through all of this BS for this hour of 40?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He was giving out medals like Oprah.

[Eugene Daniels]

And that was the thing. It's like.

[Franny Kelly]

It was crazy.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You'll get a car.

[Political Commentator]

You don't get a car.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Medal for you. Medal for you. You know somebody on the Internet, I'm trying to. My husband keeps telling me, do not read the comments and don't respond.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's telling me that a lot.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I just start to respond on the podcast.

[Franny Kelly]

That's better. That's a little better.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not a little better. I'm just gonna respond on the podcast. So comments. Because I made this point after one of the many we was on for a long time. Long time. On Tuesday after State of the Union, and I made the point that he was using the president, used our Military, our servicemen and women, and even the US Men's hockey team as props, political props. And I don't think they should have

[Eugene Daniels]

been in the middle of freedom.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I mean, someone in the comments said he didn't give those out. Those were earned. See, you all don't support the military. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. I don't think people underst. Yes, they were earned. But the point is, is he's trying to capitalize on what they have done on their work. He's trying to capitalize the success of the US Olympics team and make it about him. He a draft dodger.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Eugene Daniels]

I think the thing is this was the thing that was happening as exactly as this happened. As he's giving out all these awards or whatever he wants to call them. The thing that makes very clear medals. Yes, whatever. As he's handing them out. As he's handing them out. The only thing I can think of, he's doing this because he doesn't want to talk about the economy. He's doing because the actual data that he has to present to the American people doesn't exist. And most importantly, the vision that is required in that speech in a midterm year that is not looking good for his party. He is not helping to give them something to run. This is the biggest stage he's gonna have this year. So that was it. That was the message as he goes in Mark into the midterm year. That is what he said. The Republican Party's about what it is. I don't know what it is.

[Franny Kelly]

I mean, he definitely went on the attack. He said, I'm gonna work with what I have. He doesn't have the economy.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

This is true.

[Franny Kelly]

You know, he doesn't have popular support right now. People are.

[Eugene Daniels]

He's terrible. He paid him.

[Franny Kelly]

Yeah.

[Eugene Daniels]

Very upset.

[Franny Kelly]

So what he says is, look, look at those Democrats over there. They're crazy. Look, look how rude they are. They won't even stand. He gets into a back and forth with them because that's a distraction, bringing people from behind the wall, behind the curtain, opening doors. Yeah, but it's a cynical play, but it's a belief that the American people aren't smart enough to see what's in front of them. That we're not smart enough to listen to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that we're not smart enough to read international news. You notice it's a very domestic based State of Union address as well. Very little on Iran, almost nothing on Venezuela. And when he does again, more theatrics, I'm reuniting a family. It's all theatrics. Because he did do that. Yeah, because he doesn't want us to pay attention to what's in front of us. And he believes, and for good reason, that the American people will ignore the facts and go with him anyway.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

When he said the state of our Union is strong, our economy is strong, People in the chat on Ms. Now's YouTube livestream were like, what is it? I mean, to be clear, beef is up 15%, eggs are down because it was the avian flu. And so it's gotten back to normal levels. But orange juice is up. I mean, anybody that has gone to the grocery store, it is expensive too. More expensive to live your life now than it was before Donald Trump was back in office.

[Franny Kelly]

I moved the refrigerator out there in the break room. I'm taking stuff home. I can't.

[Eugene Daniels]

MSN security will be. Leave the building, please.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. Before we leave the State of the Union, I just. Can we put on the table the fact that I think that the things that broke through from the State of the Union on Tuesday that we will still be talking about in the weeks and days to come isn't what Donald Trump necessarily did. It's Al Green being escorted out in the first 5 minutes cuz he held up the sign that said black people are not apes. It's Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib literally shouting down the President's lies. Which I appreciate. I think the Democrats strategy going in, talking about we gonna sit in silent defiance. Silent defiance for somebody like Donald Trump on a stage like that is just background noise. The American people are looking to know that the Democrats understand the assignment.

[Eugene Daniels]

They want Democrats to get caught fighting. And that is, that is the problem.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I love that thing.

[Eugene Daniels]

I mean, it's just like, that's a great. You have to be trying to do it. You don't have to fight, you gotta win the fight. Right. This is why the shutdown last year worked because it was like they were caught fighting about healthcare and now the conversation was about healthcare and not about the fact that they shut down the government. And when you look at how Democrats are operating in this moment, you have Abigail Spanberger, who gave the Democratic State of the Union response, fine speech. I think a lot of people said it was a very good speech. And that's the thing. And so maybe that's what they. Maybe they didn't want anyone to be talking about it. Maybe they thought like, if they're not talking about our response, maybe that's good. But then you had all these other responses.

[Franny Kelly]

Solid logic, exit, crazy safety.

[Eugene Daniels]

Right. Because what we were talking about yesterday, Simone, is that they feel like they're on the offense. And their reaction to being on the

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Democrats, Democrats in Congress, elected Democrats.

[Eugene Daniels]

And their reaction to being on offense is to play it safe, it seems. And when you. And this is, in my opinion, this is staffers telling me like, yeah, our bosses want to play it safe. And I think that I played college football. People are very confused about that because of the nail polish. I understand. But I played college football.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

They got me sitting on two pillows right now. Cause he's a tall man.

[Eugene Daniels]

You can do offense, but you also have to play defense. And I think that is part of the thing that's missing here from Democrats.

[Franny Kelly]

I think that's right. And if you go into. To prevent too early, you can lose. Right. If you play too safe, if you run the ball too much, you can lose.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct.

[Franny Kelly]

This is what's happening right now. They have a false sense of security and a false sense of safety that's informed not at all by history. They need to be aggressive. They need to be on the offense. Silent defiance to someone who's not paying careful attention looks a lot like cowardice. You can't assume that because you're saying nothing that we should assume that there's righteous indignation and that Trump is a bully. And the only way to defeat a bully is to push back, is to fight. And they need to fight. Rashida Tlaib shows that the one moment I stood was Ilhan Ilhan and Al Green. Because those are the moments where I'm like, yes, that's what we need to do.

[Eugene Daniels]

Why is there always people of color that feel like they have to put their bodies, their careers, you know, Al Green got censured last time when he. At the jointers Congress last year. It feels like it is people of color who are saying, who understand the assignment, Understand the assignment. And that is what's happening.

[Franny Kelly]

I think some of it is. Cause a whole bunch of people of color ain't say nothing. So I want to be there. I want to be clear about that

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

too, you know, but.

[Franny Kelly]

But the people like Ilhan and Rashida, the question is, why are they there? They didn't go to Congress to get rich. They didn't go to Congress to get famous. They went to Congress to impact their communities and to effect change. And that's what they're doing. And black folk, we've always, we've always been at risk in this country. We're always at Risk, there's always something to lose. The stakes are always high. So it's not new to us. And so I think you'll see. And same thing with Rashida Tlaib as a Palestinian. Same thing with Ilhan Omar as a Somali. So there's no surprise to me, and I ain't saying Shane Black, y'.

[Political Commentator]

All.

[Franny Kelly]

So it's no surprise to me that they're willing to put that risk of they've been afraid of much more.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Eugene had a lot to say in our group chat earlier this week about the governor of California.

[Eugene Daniels]

I had lots of thoughts.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He was on stage in Atlanta to preview his memoir. It's called Young man in a Hurry. And he sat down with newly reelected Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens. And Newsom was being asked about what he wanted people to know about his experience growing up with dyslexia. And I think we should just play, play for people, what he had to say.

[Delroy Lindo]

So many folks, I put a mask on and my face was starting to grow into it. I. I was trying to be someone I was not, wasn't that I was inauthentic. It just, I wasn't who I am. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to impress you. I'm just trying to impress upon you. I'm like you. I'm no better than you. You know, I'm a 960 SAT guy. And, you know, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. You know, trying to act all there. If you got 940. You've never seen me read a speech because I cannot read a speech. Maybe the wrong business to be, you know, my dyslexia. I haven't overcome dyslexia. I'm living with.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not here to speak for Mayor Dickens, but I just encourage people. Again, if you are listening, wherever you get your podcast, please look at the video. Mayor Dickens was like, I know what

[Eugene Daniels]

that black face looks like.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

What you saying?

[Eugene Daniels]

Excuse me. So I think part of the thing that was so interesting here is he's trying to be relatable, right? He is trying to be like, I too, struggle, right? Like I am someone who has had to figure out how to overcome. I have talked to a lot of people, a lot of black people who are still the base of the Democratic Party, whether y' all want that to be the case or not, what they heard and the way it came off was felt off to them, right? Like it did not feel like the, you know, I'm dealing with dyslexia. It's like, y' all dumb, too. You know, that was what a lot of people took from. I'm saying I took that. I think a lot of people took from that was like, I can't read. Right. And everyone's like, we can read, sir. I know.

[Political Commentator]

See, I.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And he said this before. To be clear. He has said it before, but he might need to stop saying that.

[Franny Kelly]

Put my Gavin Newsom cape on for one second.

[BetterHelp Advertiser]

Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Okay. Let me get my lighter.

[Franny Kelly]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. But to be clear, I'm not a Gavin Newsom fan. I'm not a Gavin Newsom voter. I'm not telling people that Gavin Newsom is a great candidate. I think he can win.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Franny Kelly]

And I think he's better than Trump. But I'm just saying. I'm not saying this as some paid Gavin Newsom person. I'm saying this as somebody who just likes the facts. I think our reaction to that is. Was informed by how it was presented to us. You know, the Internet.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah.

[Franny Kelly]

It's like the old huxtable thing about bringing the food up the steak on the trash can. It's like, if you bring. So the Internet brought it to us as. Listen to Gavin Newsom telling a room full of black voters that he's like, them960sat and I can't read.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Franny Kelly]

Now, the facts of it is one, it wasn't a room full of black voters. If you look at the video, if you look at the still footage, and I spoke to many people on the ground, it was maybe 85% white. 80%. I think that matters.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah.

[Franny Kelly]

So that I'm just like you. Wasn't black people. So my.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

He wasn't even talking to us.

[Franny Kelly]

He wasn't talking to us. My thing is, if in a room full of 800 white people and 200 black people, and he said, I'm just like you. I can't read. Why you think you're talking to the black people?

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah. Why are you so saying that?

[Franny Kelly]

But again, it was presented to us, like he said, in a room full

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

of black people, you better teach us, New York. You better teach us.

[Franny Kelly]

It matters.

[Eugene Daniels]

Right?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It matters.

[Eugene Daniels]

Just one more quick thing.

[Franny Kelly]

And y' all played the right part. The original clip doesn't have him saying anything about dyslexia. And it stops at I can't read. He didn't say, I can't read. He said, I can't read speeches, and he's talking about the prompter. And lastly, he said it the exact same thing. Word for word. Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

Before.

[Franny Kelly]

To all white audiences and to white interviewers. He ain't that original. He ain't that clever. Politicians say the same thing. I mean, they say the same thing, the same jokes, the same impromptu. They say the same ish every time.

[Eugene Daniels]

It don't change.

[Franny Kelly]

So you cannot like Gavin Newsom. Plenty of reasons to not like any politician. This just ain't one of them.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

You know what? This is a good point. I just think it's a good point about the misinformation and disinformation and how what plays on social media. I mean, you know, you come on now. I mean, I listen to the Joe Button podcast. Sometimes a little clip get out, and it's like somebody didn't listen to the whole conversation. And now you on the Internet and they trying to eat you up.

[Franny Kelly]

Exactly.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And you getting them back.

[Franny Kelly]

Words are tricky.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yeah. Words are hard. Okay.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Words are very difficult.

[Eugene Daniels]

Words are hard. Mark Lamont Hill, thank you for coming on. We appreciate it.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah, you can come back because you know, what he gave. How it was presented on the Gavin Newsom clip is very important, and the streets need to see it. They trying to dupe us. They trying to hoodwink in bamboozle.

[Eugene Daniels]

And the right wing used it. The right wing used it immediately to be like, we love Black Panthers.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Who presented it to us?

[Franny Kelly]

You know, I knew it was back when Christopher Ruffo came out and said. He said no. He said, look, I watched the whole video. This ain't racist, y'.

[Commercial Announcer]

All.

[Franny Kelly]

It was like right wingers were even like, come on, y'. All. We got better stuff than this.

[Eugene Daniels]

Like, don't be weird.

[Franny Kelly]

Yeah. Like, we got plenty of time to lie. Let's pace ourselves.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm Karai.

[Eugene Daniels]

Let's eat over here. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you, thank you, thank you. The sidewalks of New York are slippery and very gross. So we appreciate it. We're gonna take a break now, but stick around for the sideshow.

[Political Commentator]

That.

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[Eugene Daniels]

Subscribe to Ms. NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of Ms. Now's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite Ms. Now shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, including Rachel Maddow Presents Burn Order. Subscribe to Ms. NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Greetings. Welcome back to the portion of the you know where when we're done with the group chat, you know, sometimes you gotta break up to the side chat and talk about what y' all just discussed. After company has left. Mark was the company. He is gone. We appreciate him. 1. I liked Mark Lamont Hill. He can definitely come back because the

[Eugene Daniels]

streets were saying one thing and I think his different take on the Gavin Newsom video is very good.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Exactly. Even though I do feel like he needs to refine his message. Gavin Newsom, if he really would like to be present.

[Eugene Daniels]

Because you have to be careful about falling into traps.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Correct. And the videos matter because the viral videos could color what the actually thinking which will inform what they do at the ballot box. But don't take my word for it.

[Eugene Daniels]

Honestly, they might not been there.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Baby. How are you clearing your mind after this, let's say hectic week, you guys.

[Eugene Daniels]

On Thursday I will be seeing Scream 7. I'm a. I love.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Are you a scream fan?

[Eugene Daniels]

I love Scream. I love a horror movie. But I'm very jumpy also. So it's actually not. It makes zero sense. That's why I'm like, no, I'm very jumpy. I don't. I'm very scared. I'm gonna watch him be in my hotel, like scared the whole time. But I'm very excited to go see it. I love me some scream. It is what I do on election days. Oh really? Because you're not doing most of the day. You're not. You're like waiting around until the results start.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Not eyes and stuff. Put on some skin care.

[Eugene Daniels]

And I wanna scream one and scream two while I'm talking.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

What?

[Eugene Daniels]

Hello. While they running around. So very excited.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I'm not a scream fan per se. No Shit to the Scream franchise. It's just not for me.

[Eugene Daniels]

You need to catch up.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I don't think I'll be doing that, but I will be catching up on Paradise.

[Eugene Daniels]

Love Paradise.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Paradise is back. Paradise was robbed at all the award shows. Justice for Sterling K. Brown. Ok, if you have not seen paradise, three episodes dropped on the first day. I've watched part of the. When this is over, I'm about to go watch Paradise. I've been working very hard these last couple days. I've been very stressed, actually, and so I need to decompress. I'm about to decompress on Hulu. I just love paradise so much.

[Eugene Daniels]

It's a very good show.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It's a good show. It's layered now. Honestly, it's really. It all boils down to, like, the end of the world might be coming and billionaires decide to save themselves and just a little bit of humanity, which might be a little too close to home. Maybe that's why. That's why I like it so much. Okay.

[Eugene Daniels]

It feels like right now it's trauma.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

What else are you doing this weekend?

[Eugene Daniels]

Working.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

No. Aren't we going to a wedding?

[Eugene Daniels]

Oh, we're going to a wedding.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

We're going to a wedding.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yes. A friend of mine, she's my plus one. I'm her Plymouth getting married. Shout out to Richard.

[Eugene Daniels]

Yes.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

And so we are going to Richard's very fabulous wedding.

[Eugene Daniels]

Can't wait.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

I cannot wait. Oh, are you okay? We need to coordinate on the outfits.

[Political Commentator]

Yes.

[Eugene Daniels]

Pink tuxedo.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Oh, all right. I need to do another Rent the Runway.

[Eugene Daniels]

Correct. Call them.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, Eugene, I'm gonna go do my Rent the Runway order.

[Eugene Daniels]

Step it up.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Need to call St. John's and see what they can get for me. The St. John knit. We have made it. This is episode three.

[Eugene Daniels]

Still not fired.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Still not fired. You all are still listening and watching. We appreciate you. Please rate us. We want to know what y' all

[Eugene Daniels]

are and write the comments.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Rate and comment. Email us. Hit us on social media. We want to know what you think. And we will be back next week yet again. Because if it's Thursday, baby. Episode of Clocket is dropping and we are clocking it. Clock it is produced by Franny Kelly. Our associate producer is Iggy Monda. Additional production support from Jen Mulraney, Brittany Ruff, Adrianna Thomas, Elayjah Gibbs Jones, Malcolm Thomas and Colette Holcomb.

[Eugene Daniels]

Our audio engineers are Greg Devens II Hazik, Ben, Ahmed Fared, Bob Mallory and Matt Bauer.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Katie Lau is the senior manager of audio production. Aisha Turner is the executive producer of Ms. Now Audio, and Madeline Herringer is senior vice president in charge of audio, digital, and long form. Our theme music is by Jesse McGinty, and we're your hosts, Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels. See you next week. Oh, God. Every time we go, Every time we do it.

[Eugene Daniels]

So good, so good, so good.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Simone Sanders Townsend]

How did I not know Rack has Adidas?

[Eugene Daniels]

Cause there's always something new.

[Commercial Announcer]

Join the Norty Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack.