The Blueprint with Jen Psaki — Episode Summary

Episode Title: We Cannot Abandon Our Convictions, with Andy Beshear
Podcast: The Blueprint with Jen Psaki, MSNBC
Date: October 22, 2025

Brief Overview

This episode features Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, one of the country’s most popular Democratic governors, in conversation with host Jen Psaki. The focus is on the challenges and opportunities facing the Democratic Party—how to communicate effectively with voters, the delicate balance between principle and pragmatism, and what it means to "talk normal" in the public sphere. Key topics include messaging, generational change, immigration, Democratic coalition-building, cost-of-living, the use of anti-Trump energy, and defending core convictions like LGBTQ+ rights even when they are unpopular.

The episode is split into two key discussions:

1. Jen Psaki & Liz Smith: A precursory discussion on Democratic strategy, generational change, and issues like immigration and campaign messaging.
2. Jen Psaki & Governor Andy Beshear: An in-depth interview about communications, policies that matter to everyday Americans, standing by convictions, and reaching Trump voters.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Opening Panel: Psaki & Democratic Strategist Liz Smith (00:56–15:01)

A. On Generational Change & the "Gerontocracy"

• Football analogy: Both Psaki and Smith joke about NFL quarterbacks over 40 ("Unk Bowl"), drawing a parallel to Congress’ older members.
  • Liz Smith (02:08): “Not every 40, 41 year old quarterback is created equal… The same applies to members of Congress elected leaders in their 70s. And that is some nuance that I think that we all can bring Gerontocracy discussion for sure.”

B. Immigration: Policy and Political Messaging

• Tough issue: Immigration is politically hard, with perceptions that Dems “lose” when it's central to an election.
• Polls have shifted: Trump is now “underwater” on general immigration policy, but still leads on “securing the border.”
• Dems must show nuance:
  • Liz Smith (04:50, quoting Rep. Suozzi): "Democrats must concede that Donald Trump was right about the importance of securing the border and he was right about the need to deport violent criminals who are in this country illegally."
  • Liz Smith (05:52): "We absolutely should be going on the offense on the issue of these lawless ICE raids and mass deportations and making the moral case… We need to go right at the core of Donald Trump and his administration's rationale for these, that it's good for public safety."
• Real-life perspective: Psaki and Smith highlight Denver Mayor Mike Johnston’s practical, safety-first approach as a model for messaging (06:50–07:15).

C. Nuance in Democratic Messaging

• Psaki’s call for nuance:
  • Jen Psaki (07:22): “I think immigration is a space where nuance is strength, nuance is addressing it in ways communities are really living it.”

D. The Power and Limits of Anti-Trump Messaging

• Enthusiasm is real: Protests against Trump are widespread, even in red states.
• Campaign ads: Candidates across the country are using anti-Trump messaging, especially in major upcoming races (10:12–10:32).
• Smith’s critique:
  • Liz Smith (11:11): “As bad as Donald Trump has been for the Republican Party, in some ways, he's been worse for the Democratic Party because... we can't stop talking about him. ...We need to get back in the business of telling people what they're for."
• Analogy: Psaki compares party platforms to a “cupboard”—if you don’t like one, you need the other to offer something appealing.
• Key issues for 2026: Affordability and cost-of-living are likely to be central, especially in competitive districts (14:09–14:33).

II. Main Interview: Governor Andy Beshear with Jen Psaki (16:34–42:01)

A. "Talk Normal": The Imperative of Speaking Plainly (16:52–19:15)

• Advocacy speak is alienating:
  • Andy Beshear (17:03): "Advocacy speak has snuck into our language… it sounds like we're talking down to people, that we're talking at people and not to them, that we use words that don't have any emotion behind them."
  • Uses Kentucky’s opioid epidemic as an example: People relate to ‘addiction,’ not ‘substance use disorder.’
  • On food insecurity: “We’ve got to be saying that people are going to go hungry. Seniors aren’t going to be able to sleep because they’re hungry at night.”
  • On criminal justice labels: “Justice-involved population? I don’t even know what that means… Those are our inmates.”
  • On political process-speak: “The process, you know, people don't care about. They care about the results.” (19:33)

B. Reducing Stigma by Changing Hearts, Not Words (20:54–22:04)

• Actions > jargon:
  • "You don’t reduce stigma by changing words. You reduce it by changing hearts."
  • Key result: Kentucky drug overdoses have gone down three straight years, “including 30% last year.”

C. 80% on Issues Impacting 100% of People (22:26–25:02)

• Focus on kitchen-table issues:
  • Andy Beshear (23:09): “When people wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about politics, they're thinking about their jobs… their next doctor’s appointment… the roads and bridges they drive each day… whether the American dream is still attainable.”
  • The American dream: Democrats need to “make that American dream real again” by increasing housing, lowering drug costs, expanding high-speed internet, improving infrastructure, and public safety.

D. Democratic Messaging & Voter Behavior (26:28–29:51)

• Perception problem: Even if Democratic policy is better, voters don’t always perceive it.
• Psaki references campaign successes by both far-left and Trump-aligned candidates focused on cost of living, tying their success to simplicity and focus of message.
• Beshear agrees, reiterating the ‘80% rule’ & the necessity of a clear, unified message on basic needs.
  • Andy Beshear (27:28): “If somebody looks at a Democratic candidate and we're talking about 50 things... and the other side has three messages, and they're all about things that impact everyone… people want that so badly, they'll vote for somebody that's cruel… or they'd vote for somebody that calls themselves a socialist.”

E. Humanity in Immigration Policy (29:51–31:19)

• Balance security with humanity:
  • Andy Beshear (30:16): "It's the difference between border security and a policy of immigration enforcement that lacks humanity."
  • Uses visceral language to describe the inhumanity of militarized ICE raids.

F. Standing by Convictions—Especially on LGBTQ+ and Trans Rights (31:19–35:32)

• Psaki raises the hot-button issue of how much time Dems spend on cost-of-living versus civil rights issues, like trans rights.
• Beshear’s “80/20 rule”:
  • Quote (34:06): "That's the other 20% of our time, because we cannot abandon our convictions. We have to be a party that stands up against discrimination no matter who it's aimed at."
  • Shares his reasoning (“the why”): He vetoed the anti-trans bill because his “faith teaches me that all children are children of God… I wanted those kids to know that they were supported.”
• Key lesson: Credibility and sincerity are gained by standing by core values, then returning to the daily bread of economic policy for all.

G. Defining Contrast with Trump—Policy over Personality (35:32–38:49)

• Credibility in bipartisan praise/critique:
  • When Trump did something good for Kentucky (e.g., disaster recovery), Beshear gave credit.
  • Beshear’s main critiques are policy-based:
    • Tariffs will “tank” the economy—raising costs for Kentucky families.
    • Biden’s approach (lower drug costs, more jobs) offers a positive alternative.
  • Quote (36:32): "It can't just be about the person. ... When I speak out, I'm not anti-Trump. I'm just against really terrible policies that he and he alone are pushing."
• Danger of overly detailed platforms:
  • Voters want to know priorities and authenticity more than granular policy (38:53): “The American people right now mainly want to know what your priorities are, generally how you'll go about them and how hard you'll work.”

H. Winning Over Trump Voters (39:13–41:52)

• Show results:
  • Andy Beshear (40:00): “They will cross over and vote for somebody if they believe, number one, they're real… two, that they care about them, and three, that they are going to make their life better.”
  • Personal anecdote: Brought a large factory and high-paying jobs to a red rural county; votes increased from +500 to +1500: “Why? Because people saw a better life.”
• Main takeaway: “Actually governing well, getting results, proving to people that you'll make their life better, that's still ... the best way to set up an election and a run.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Liz Smith (02:08): “Not every 40, 41 year old quarterback is created equal… The same applies to members of Congress elected leaders in their 70s.”
• Jen Psaki (03:04): "There are some people who are in their 70s and even 80s who are so with it and great."
• Liz Smith (04:50, quoting Rep. Suozzi): "Democrats must concede that Donald Trump was right about the importance of securing the border and he was right about the need to deport violent criminals who are in this country illegally."
• Andy Beshear (17:03): "Advocacy speak has snuck into our language… sounds like we're talking down to people… We can't say more people are going to be food insecure... we’ve got to be saying that people are going to go hungry."
• Andy Beshear (20:54): "You don’t reduce stigma by changing words. You reduce it by changing hearts."
• Andy Beshear (23:09): “When people wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about politics, they're thinking about their jobs…”
• Andy Beshear (34:06): "That's the other 20% of our time, because we cannot abandon our convictions. We have to be a party that stands up against discrimination no matter who it's aimed at."
• Andy Beshear (36:32): "I'm not anti-Trump. I'm just against really terrible policies that he and he alone are pushing."
• Andy Beshear (40:00): “They will cross over and vote for somebody if they believe, number one, they're real… two, that they care about them, and three, that they are going to make their life better.”

Important Timestamps

• 00:56: Show intro, preview of central themes
• 02:08: Smith’s analogy of old quarterbacks and political gerontocracy
• 03:04: Introduction to immigration as a vexing campaign issue
• 04:50: Rep. Suozzi’s controversial op-ed quoted
• 05:52: Smith: Moral case and going on offense in immigration debates
• 07:22: Psaki: "Nuance is strength" in immigration messaging
• 09:03: Discussion of “no king” anti-Trump protest movement
• 10:12–11:10: Anti-Trump ad audio and debate on campaign focus
• 14:09: Discussion on 2022 abortion-rights focused midterm and lessons for 2026
• 16:34: Start of Andy Beshear interview
• 17:03–19:33: Beshear's philosophy on plain speech and advocacy language
• 20:54: Reducing stigma: Changing hearts, not words
• 23:09–25:02: 80% focus on issues impacting 100% of Americans
• 27:28: The appeal of simplicity and focus in campaign messaging
• 30:16: Drawing the line between law enforcement and humanity in immigration
• 34:06: "Cannot abandon our convictions"—standing by LGBTQ+ and trans rights
• 36:32: Avoiding pure anti-Trumpism; focusing on policy differences & solutions
• 38:53: Voters want priorities, not endless details
• 40:00–41:52: Winning over Trump country voters with results, not just message

Conclusion

Governor Andy Beshear’s practical, plainspoken approach provides a “blueprint” for Democratic candidates seeking to win in red or purple states: speak normally, focus the vast majority of time on issues touching everyone’s lives, and never abandon core convictions about justice and rights. He emphasizes governing well, achieving real results, and explaining policy choices in direct, human language. Both Psaki and Beshear agree that in the age of Trump (and Trump 2.0), Democrats must move beyond negative partisanship to articulate a hopeful, substantive vision—one that makes the American dream attainable again for all.

For listeners looking to understand the Democratic Party’s contemporary crossroads—and how it might regain ground—this lively episode offers a mix of hard-nosed strategy, critique, inspiration, and political clarity.