The Bobby Bones Show: "Amy: Defensiveness (Part 2 of How Relationships Begin to End: The Four Horseman)"

Date: September 28, 2025
Theme: Exploring "Defensiveness" as one of the Four Horsemen that predict relationship breakdown, according to Gottman Institute research.

Overview

In this episode of "Feeling Things" with Amy and Kat—part of The Bobby Bones Show—the hosts dive into "defensiveness," the second of John Gottman’s "Four Horsemen" predictors of relationship trouble. They use personal anecdotes and relatable, real-life examples to unpack what defensiveness looks like, why it occurs, and how it can be addressed. The episode is candid, self-reflective, and filled with humor, as Amy, in particular, turns the discussion into a mini-therapy session about her own defensive habits.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Defensiveness

• Defensiveness Defined: According to the Gottmans, defensiveness is "self-protection in the form of righteous indignation or innocent victimhood to ward off a perceived attack." (15:04)
• Impact: The hosts reaffirm that everyone is occasionally defensive; it's the consistency and patterns that matter, not perfection.

“You are going to do these things every once in a while. It’s not about never doing this. It’s more so looking at the whole of things.” — Kat [07:21]

2. Recognizing Defensiveness in Yourself

• Amy’s Own Admission: Amy shares that her boyfriend frequently points out her defensiveness, and she admits, "I must say, he’s not wrong." [04:50]
• Examples from Life: She gives concrete examples, such as:
  • Getting defensive when offered water for her dog at the park, worried others thought she was a bad dog mom [05:12]
  • Explaining herself after an interaction involving her ex-husband, even if no judgment was actually present [05:40]

“I’m filtering things the wrong way to where I feel like I need to respond with some sort of defense.” — Amy [04:40]

3. Why We Get Defensive

• Internal Filters & Projections: Kat explains, “You’re assuming they’re thinking things that you maybe are thinking of yourself.” [06:27]
• Often, a defensive reaction comes not from another’s words, but from our own discomfort or insecurity.

4. What Defensiveness Sounds Like

Kat provides household examples to illustrate:

• Example 1:
  • Question: “Have you changed the air filters?”
  • Defensive Answer: “I was busy all day. Why don’t you do it yourself?”
  • Non-defensive Alternative: “Thanks for the reminder. I’ll do it ASAP.” [21:39–24:25]
• Example 2:
  • Work dinner vs. social calendar childcare conflict:
  • Defensive response focuses on justification and making oneself the victim instead of problem-solving.

5. The Domino Effect in Relationships

• Defensiveness often spirals: “We end up ignoring the needs or the thoughts or the feelings of our partner. And we just immediately turn it around on them.” — Kat [15:01]
• Rather than deepening connection, repeated defensiveness can leave both parties unheard and frustrated.

6. The Antidote: Taking Responsibility

• Practice Owning Your Part: The solution to defensiveness is to own your part in an issue without excuses.

“It’s usually like, oh, there’s something that I can own up here. And, like, I don’t have to take responsibility for all of it, but...Take responsibility for your part.” — Kat [25:32]

• Practical Responses: Examples include admitting you're running late or forgot something, without excessive justification.
• Progress, Not Perfection: The goal isn’t to never be defensive, but to spot the pattern and correct it.

7. Tips to Break the Pattern

• Pause and Assess: Before responding defensively, ask yourself: “What is going on for me right now?” [30:13]
• De-personalize: Remember, not everything is about you—sometimes people are just being kind or neutral.
• Clarification Exercise: Practice reflecting back what you heard. (“So, what I’m hearing you say is...”) [34:05]
• Use Code Words: Amy and Kat invent "DM" (Defensive Much?) as a playful code word to call out defensiveness, emphasizing kindness and humor when using it. [40:03]

“So then we just do a DM check in.” — Amy [40:26]

• Cool Down Strategy: Agree with loved ones on a word to signal a needed break (“pickle” in Amy’s co-parenting example) [33:32]
• Apologize and Move On: Sometimes, a simple "I'm sorry, let's fix it" is enough. No long explanations needed.

8. Vulnerability and Repair

• The hosts reiterate that vulnerability strengthens relationships and that being able to take feedback (as Amy strives to do) is a sign of growth.

“You’re really good at that—taking feedback.” — Kat [08:49]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Amy calls her boyfriend live to 'test' if his biggest complaint is her defensiveness.

  “Hey, what is it you say that I always do?”
  “You get defensive.” — Amy & boyfriend [04:22]

  • Both laugh—proving the point with humor and vulnerability.

• Amy on her worries about being seen as a bad dog owner

  “I was judging myself for it. So this person stopped and was like, ‘Hey, would you like some water for your dog?’ And I was like, ‘No, we’re good, we’re almost to the car’…And I instantly was like, oh my gosh, they’re judging me. And he’s like, ‘No, I think they were just offering you water.’” — Amy [05:12]

• Role Play & Humor
  Amy and Kat joke about reflecting statements back to strangers (“So what I’m hearing you say is…you just want me to pay for this right now?”) to lighten the mood around self-improvement work. [35:02–36:13]

Timestamps for Key Sections

• [02:11] – Start of core content; intro of “defensiveness” as this week’s “Horseman”
• [04:08] – Amy calls her boyfriend to check if “defensive” is his #1 complaint
• [05:12] – Amy’s dog park and ex-husband stories, illustrating defensiveness in daily life
• [07:21] – Explanation that occasional defensiveness is normal; focus on patterns
• [13:38] – What defensiveness “feels” like, examples of victim mentality
• [15:04] – Gottman’s definition; “avoiding a perceived attack”
• [21:39] – Household chore examples of defensiveness
• [25:27] – The antidote for defensiveness: “take responsibility”
• [29:56] – Pattern-breaking, practical tips, importance of pausing and checking response
• [33:53] – Using “pickle” or new code words to move out of escalation
• [40:03] – Creation of “DM” (Defensive Much?) code word

Notable Takeaways

• Awareness is the first step. Both hosts encourage listeners to spot defensiveness in themselves with compassion, not shame.
• It’s not about perfect communication, but about course-correcting, using humor, and willingness to own your side.
• Relationships (romantic or otherwise) benefit when both parties work to understand rather than defend or blame.

Closing

Amy and Kat bring the conversation full-circle, connecting defensiveness to family dynamics, pop culture (brief diversion into "Scandal"), and the messy, universal quest to show up better in our closest relationships. They urge listeners to notice their own patterns and try out strategies like clarifying, apologizing, and having humor about their growth.

“So what I’m hearing you say is, you just want to give my dog water…” — Amy [50:50]

For anyone wanting a relatable, actionable, and kind approach to tackling defensiveness in their relationships, this episode is a must-listen.