AMY: Gaslighting, Trauma Bonding & Other Things That Got Popular on Instagram

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show Episode: AMY: Gaslighting, Trauma Bonding & Other Things That Got Popular on Instagram
Release Date: July 13, 2025
Host/Author: Premiere Networks
Description: In this episode, Amy and Kat delve deep into the nuances of mental health terminology as popularized on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok. They explore concepts such as gaslighting, trauma bonding, and more, distinguishing between their pop psychology interpretations and their clinical definitions. Through personal anecdotes and therapeutic insights, the hosts aim to educate listeners on the importance of understanding these terms accurately to foster better mental health awareness.

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1. Introduction to Feelings and Personal Struggles

Timestamp: [02:13] – [07:36]

Amy and Kat begin the episode by sharing their current feelings and personal struggles. Amy opens up about feeling physically tired due to taking an Adderall pill after being Adderall-free for a year. She expresses a mix of shame and relief upon using the medication to accomplish her tasks, highlighting the internal conflict many face when relying on prescribed medications.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [03:08]: "I got it all done, but then I couldn't go to sleep because my body just wasn't used to it."
• Kat [05:17]: "Most days you have to work harder to function the way a neurotypical person functions. And you don't complain about it. You do it."

2. Adderall Use and Emotional Impact

Timestamp: [07:05] – [17:28]

The discussion deepens as Amy and Kat explore the emotional ramifications of using Adderall. They address the stigma associated with taking medication for mental health issues, emphasizing that such medications level the playing field rather than serve as a form of cheating.

Notable Quotes:

• Kat [07:05]: "But it's just when you put it that way, it's like you are working harder. I'm gonna say this, and you tell me what you think."
• Amy [16:11]: "I felt compassion for myself. I don't think."

3. Sky Journaling Exercise

Timestamp: [09:09] – [20:08]

Amy introduces the concept of sky journaling, an exercise designed to help process emotions through artistic expression. Both hosts participate by drawing clouds and writing poems about them, sharing their creative outputs to illustrate their emotional states. This segment underscores the therapeutic benefits of guided journaling activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [10:26]: "Sky journaling... are going to have their own interpretation of how to draw or what to draw."
• Kat [17:28]: "If you are tired of being a good cloud all day, maybe you should just be."

4. Pop Psychology vs. Clinical Definitions

Timestamp: [38:20] – [55:42]

A significant portion of the episode focuses on dissecting popular mental health terms as they appear on social media versus their clinical definitions. Amy and Kat discuss terms like trauma bonding, gaslighting, triggered, intrusive thoughts, and bipolar disorder, clarifying misconceptions and providing accurate explanations.

Subsections:

a. Trauma Bonding

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [38:40]: "When you are bonded with somebody through a trauma that you experience together."
• Kat [40:49]: "It's a situation where someone develops a strong sympathy, loyalty or dependence or attachment towards their abuser."

b. Gaslighting

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [42:09]: "Someone telling you their truth, but it's not the truth... making you feel crazy."
• Kat [43:01]: "It's an abuse tactic where you are manipulated to question your reality, memory, or sanity."

c. Triggered

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [44:32]: "You're having a response to something that has happened because of something that has happened to you in the past."
• Kat [44:46]: "A trigger is something that causes a sudden increase in symptoms, like flashbacks and PTSD or compulsions, like OCD."

d. Intrusive Thoughts

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [46:01]: "Thoughts that are taking over... they're interrupting what I have going on."
• Kat [47:59]: "Unwanted or involuntary thoughts that go against your real values and desires."

e. Bipolar Disorder

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [51:16]: "I've been guilty years back in the past of being like, oh, I'm so bipolar right now."
• Kat [52:24]: "People say they're bipolar when they're hot and cold, but that's not what bipolar disorder is."

5. Impact of Social Media on Mental Health Perceptions

Timestamp: [26:37] – [29:01]

Kat highlights a study indicating that over 80% of mental health information on platforms like TikTok and Instagram may be misleading. This segment emphasizes the necessity for critical thinking and seeking information from reliable sources to avoid confusion and potential harm.

Notable Quotes:

• Kat [28:19]: "If someone thinks that we're breaking ethical guidelines, they can report us to a board."
• Kat [29:01]: "I saw an analysis of 500 TikTok videos with the hashtag #mentalhealth or #mentaltips found that more than 80% were misleading."

6. Encouraging Critical Thinking and Responsible Sharing

Timestamp: [30:03] – [55:42]

Amy and Kat discuss the importance of critical thinking when consuming mental health content online. They caution against adopting self-help advice without understanding its context and encourage listeners to seek professional guidance when necessary.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [32:01]: "I'm glad you can be honest and be like, Amy, you don't need to fall for every single person you see on."
• Kat [34:32]: "We protect their privacy, but we just have different information than a doctor would have."

7. Wins and Positive Reinforcement

Timestamp: [56:05] – [60:38]

The episode concludes with Amy and Kat sharing their personal "wins" of the day, promoting a positive mindset. They encourage listeners to recognize and celebrate their achievements, no matter how small, fostering a sense of accomplishment and motivation.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy [56:05]: "What's a win for you? Oh, that you showed up."
• Kat [57:20]: "For me, it was to do that exercise because I don't usually do journaling."

---

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode of The Bobby Bones Show, Amy and Kat provide valuable insights into the complexities of mental health terminology as influenced by social media. By sharing their personal experiences and professional knowledge, they bridge the gap between pop psychology and clinical understanding, urging listeners to approach mental health discussions with nuance and critical thought. The episode serves as both an educational resource and a compassionate conversation, promoting mental well-being and informed awareness.

Additional Notes:

• Homework for Listeners: Engage in sky journaling by drawing a cloud and writing a poem about it. Listeners are encouraged to email their creations to feelingthingspodcast.com for a chance to have them featured on the show.
• Upcoming Episodes: A deep dive into Mel Robbins’ teachings is hinted at, aiming to analyze and critique popular self-help strategies.

Transcript

[Kat]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Amy]

Did you know that women are more likely than men to develop dry eyes and that it might be linked to hormonal changes during your cycle or after menopause? Well, I didn't realize that that could be part of what's going on with my eyes, but lately I've been dealing with dryness and irritation, especially after long days on my computer or my phone, if you know what I'm talking about. Your dry eyes deserve Extra Refresh Relieva PF Extra is an advanced formula that works fast to soothe, comfort and protect dry eyes. Refresh Relieva PF Extra is safe to use as often as needed. Find Refresh online or in the eye drop section at all major retailers.

[Commercial Speaker]

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[Amy]

And.

[Commercial Speaker]

And that's what I love about impossible. Just, just this weekend, couple impossible burgers, put them on the grill. Boom. Felt like I was having a cheat meal without the feeling of the guilt of a cheat meal. It's not just burgers. They got hot dogs, chicken, everything you need for your summer menu. Look for the impossible red packaging at your local grocery store. Today, Oikos presents 15 seconds of strength.

[Amy]

Here we go. Steve's got a trunk full of groceries and no one to help him.

[Kat]

Oh, that's tough.

[Commercial Speaker]

Jim looks like a five trip load at least.

[Amy]

He, he grabs the first bag the second Bob.

[Commercial Speaker]

It looks like he's trying to do it all in one trip.

[Kat]

He shimmies the door open, steps over the dog.

[Amy]

Oh, and he stumbles.

[Commercial Speaker]

Oh, right into the kitchen without missing a beat.

[Amy]

Jim.

[Commercial Speaker]

Now that's a man who eats his protein packed Oikos. With 15 grams of complete protein in each cup.

[Kat]

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[Commercial Speaker]

Oikos stronger makes everything better.

[Kat]

1, 2, 3. Hey. Alright, break it down. If you ever have feelings and you just want some, maybe a cat got you covered like a gnome on brother. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in the spirit where it tell us from the real stuff to the chill stuff and the in between, sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop and feel things. This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

[Amy]

Happy Tuesday. Welcome to Feeling Things. I'm Amy.

[Kat]

And I'm Kat.

[Amy]

And my feeling of the day, well, I guess we both have them. I have a question about mine though. Is tired a feeling like I Know that, like, physically, I feel tired, but it's not a Are you feeling emotional or tired Feeling. No, I'm just tired.

[Kat]

Oh.

[Amy]

So that's my feeling.

[Kat]

It's a physical feeling.

[Amy]

Yeah, it's a physical. So physically, I feel tired. I did not sleep last night.

[Kat]

Do you know why?

[Amy]

I do. Oh.

[Kat]

Do you want to share?

[Amy]

Sure.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

But no judgment.

[Kat]

I'm not judging.

[Amy]

This is a safe space.

[Kat]

Yes.

[Amy]

Okay. You know how I've been Adderall free for all year?

[Kat]

Did you take one?

[Amy]

Took one. I took one yesterday because it was strategic. I had a lot to do, and, of course, I have other tools I can implement, but this is a tool that I have. Like, I've had that bottle all year.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And I haven't dipped into it, but I dipped in yesterday, and guess what? I got it all done.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

But then I couldn't go to sleep because my body just wasn't used to it. Once I got used to Adderall, I could take it and sleep, no problem.

[Kat]

It's also. Okay. You're prescribed that medication.

[Amy]

I am prescribed that medication.

[Kat]

So it's not like you're a drug addict right now. You're, like, dipped into your stash like, that's a medication.

[Amy]

You're sort of like, when I opened up my drawer and I pulled it out, I was like, okay, here goes nothing. And then I took it. And then it was interesting. I don't know exactly what it's doing. Not a doctor, but whatever's doing to my neurotransmitters. Yeah, I liked it, and I felt just capable of doing. And while I was doing it, I was thinking, is this what some people just do? Like, they just take the thing outside and finally rinse that off? I had a thought of cleaning the basketball goal. That popped into my mind. Like, it needs a new net. And then the. The glass. The. The basketball goal on the. On the driveway. The glass part is a little dirty. And I did have a thought, but this is where I'm also proud of myself. And I was like, that's not why we took Adderall. We didn't take Adderall to clean the basketball goal. Would it look better? Yes, but you took it for a purpose. And we're prepping for a vacation and getting everybody packed, and I normally pack the night before a trip or the morning of.

[Kat]

Yeah. Right before you leave.

[Amy]

So part of my planning and awareness was, I'm gonna get as much done as possible a week ahead of time, and that was my day to do it. So I did it and I'm not using again today.

[Kat]

Okay. Can you say that in a different way?

[Amy]

I was just making a little joke. I know. Kathy THERAPIST so we need to take this seriously. I know that I had permission to take it and I wanted to make sure I could share because I know I've been candid about my journey. And I guess part of me feels a little bit of shame, if I'm being honest, of like, why can't I just function this way without it? And I will set that aside. Cause there's nothing wrong with me. This is the brain that I have. And some days, naturally, I'm able to tap into it and I have other tools that will get me there. But yesterday I knew I needed the extra help and so I took it and it helped me. Like, I got it done and I'm thankful.

[Kat]

I just think it's interesting. I feel this too, that for whatever reason, some people who have ADHD or anything, it can be depression, anxiety, or whatever, would feel like they're cheating by taking a medication that puts them on an even, even playing field with other people. Like, hearing you say that, I get it. I relate to that too. Sometimes it feels like me taking the medication that is prescribed to me to help me function normally feels like cheating, when in reality it's just putting you on an even playing field. There's a lot of, I think, rhetoric around talk that I think helps people feel that way. But. But it's just when you put it that way, it's like you are working harder. I'm gonna say this, and you tell me what you think. Most days you have to work harder to function the way a neurotypical person functions. And you don't complain about it. You do it. I think sometimes you get down on yourself because you don't perform the same way. But, like, you're working harder. So why would there be a need for you to feel shame, to just, like, have a day that everybody else has? Like, it's almost like, give myself a break. But it's not even a break. It's just normal.

[Amy]

Yeah. No, thank you for saying that. That helps, like, the even playing field. I have heard that before, but obviously hadn't thought of it in a while and certainly not in this case. So that already has. Is helping me. Like, hearing you say that, I'm sure it's helping others. Whether it's a medication for anything. Doesn't even have to be adhd. Could be for whatever it is that you need to have it. I guess it's just, you know, you kind of go, I went six months. It's not like I was on some streak. I didn't plan on breaking it at all. It was sort of a Saturday night decision. When I wake up tomorrow, I think I'm going to take it because it's.

[Kat]

Almost like self care.

[Amy]

Telling yourself to take it. Yes. I know that I will get everything done with ease. And it wasn't like I was running around some energizer bunny. I was just moving from one thing to the next with flow and purpose and ease. Like, it just felt good and nothing was like a big deal. It was like, okay, now I'm gonna go do this. And I was completing tasks because I can do a bunch of things, but I go and I start a task and then I'm like, oh, now I'm in the kitchen doing the dishes. I was doing a load of laundry and the laundry hasn't started yet, but.

[Kat]

Oh, I didn't switch my laundry before I came over here. Yeah.

[Amy]

So how are you feeling? So that's my feeling, you know.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Which thank you for talking me through that.

[Kat]

I relate to all you're saying because also, I'm not taking medication right now. Not because I don't want to, but because I'm trying to do other things that that medication does not mix well with. So I've been feeling kind of down on myself for not doing things with ease the way that I norm. Not even normally do, but the way that I had been operating, like a phone call takes a lot of energy. But outside of that, I texted you this morning and said I'm feeling SIB today.

[Amy]

Which do you want to explain to any new listeners what sib means? Sorry I beat you. In case we have small ears listening. Sorry I. Witchy with a B. Yeah.

[Kat]

That'S our new code.

[Amy]

It's our code for. I guess we developed it when I was being. And I said, well, you can just say if you need to warn me, Sib.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And then I can say to you, sib.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And it helps just cut the edge. Like there's no. It's like this is a safe space.

[Kat]

I am feeling a little bit of that. But I think really what I'm feeling is like melancholy, like just low. And I was feeling that before I started working on podcast stuff this morning and I found something. I want you to explain it because it's yours that I use. And I did. That was really helpful that I thought we could talk about, you know, what I'm talking about.

[Amy]

Yeah. So A little behind the scenes baseball. We have a Google Doc with different things, like cats, ideas, Amy's ideas, and I know you did the exercise and you haven't shown me, so just because we have this Google Doc doesn't mean we always know exactly what the other person's gonna say. It's just a general prompt or idea or activity. Like, this is an activity and listeners can do it, too. Like, for example, you had no idea I took Adderall yesterday. You didn't know I was going to say that. I didn't even know I was going to say that. Honestly, I was going to keep it to myself. But then I thought.

[Kat]

But then I didn't take my medication today, so it just came out.

[Amy]

Right. But then I thought, I know exactly why I'm tired.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And I've been telling you since you got to my house that I'm tired.

[Kat]

It's our. Our honesty circle.

[Amy]

Right. And so then. But it's like, well, why didn't I sleep? It's not like I'm perplexed by it. I know exactly why. So I thought I would just finally tell you, which you didn't know that. So some stuff is. We try to keep as organic as possible, which is why Kat hasn't shared her activity with me. My activity was already in the Google Docs, so you could see my example. But it's called sky journaling, and this is an exercise that you can do if you're wanting to process feelings. So you can go outside with your journal and find a cloud, look into the sky and draw a cloud. A cloud.

[Kat]

And then pick an actual cloud and you draw. You.

[Amy]

You draw the cloud. And I mean, I'm not an artist, so, like, I want to see yours. Yeah. My cloud. These are. Some days my journal, I just write.

[Kat]

Like, really quick, oh, there's money in there.

[Amy]

Yeah, I know. I found that. I found that the other day. That's funny. I have no idea. Okay, there's my cloud. Oh, did you draw better?

[Kat]

Clouds look very different.

[Amy]

Okay, well, I don't know how else to draw a cloud.

[Kat]

Your cloud.

[Amy]

Look.

[Kat]

Okay, this is how I interpreted the assignment to go and try to sketch the cloud as it looks in the sky.

[Amy]

That. It's like it looked to me. Okay.

[Kat]

Cause that looks like a cloud. If there. You were like, draw a cloud. I would just draw that.

[Amy]

But that's what the cloud looked like.

[Kat]

Okay, okay.

[Amy]

Like a puffy.

[Kat]

Okay, a little.

[Amy]

Like a perfectly puffy.

[Kat]

You see my cloud? You're going to understand what I mean.

[Amy]

It Was a perfectly puffy, fluffy white cloud. And the sun was out. So I have the sun. Yeah, I guess. Sky journaling.

[Kat]

Can you like, show that to the camera so the camera can see if you're watching on YouTube?

[Amy]

I don't know what this page says, so. So there's my puffy. My cloud. My. My puffy, fluffy. It kind of makes me want to go see what I wrote, what this last journal entry was. Because I have classic adhd. I have like five journals that I bounce around, journal through good times. Okay, so my poem. What you do is you sketch the cloud and. And then you write a poem. And poetry is going to look different for everybody. There are no rules. I chose to rhyme.

[Kat]

Yeah. I followed suit.

[Amy]

Okay. Cat followed suit. Can't wait to hear yours. Feeling all puffy up in the sky. Perimenopause. Making me want to die. Just kidding. It's not that bad. I'm just tired of randomly feeling annoyed and sad. Now that makes me want to cry. Yeah. Because I know where I was when I wrote this. At least I get to sit here next to the sun. I wonder what life would be like as a nun. Nevermind. I don't think that'd be fun. And so it was a sky journaling activity. I had no idea where it was going to take me. But I love the concept because there was emotion there. Like I felt sad, but then I also was able to laugh.

[Kat]

And.

[Amy]

And it doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. But after I journaled that, I felt better. And so I think you did it and you felt better from what I know, but I just don't know what the poem is.

[Kat]

I don't know that I would say I felt better. I don't wanna give people false hope here. It helped me give myself compassion for where I was and I was able to better understand what was going on. Cause I knew, like, I know why I feel this way. Like right now I feel on the verge of tears. I told you that when I got here. Like, I just feel that today nothing's going. Nothing's wrong. Everything is fine in my life. Like, nothing has changed from yesterday. Today. Nothing has changed from the week when I was. Like, I feel so energized. I think that was like two weeks ago. Nothing has changed in my life. Just some things that I'm doing in my life has. Have changed. In that sense. I know why this is happening, but I just like, feel like I'm on the verge of. Like, I could just go Lock myself in the room. In my room for a week. I feel like. So I think me doing this, which now that I'm thinking about this, I've never gone and looked at your ideas. I think I've done that once, and I don't know what made me do that today. And I like how to scroll. This was not like one of the top ideas. This was kind of maybe in the middle, I don't know. So I'm kind of curious of what made me do that and why today did I see that? Because if I saw that on another day, I might have been like, oh, that's stupid. Like, you know, like skydurally lame. Like, I don't. I don't know. But like, there's something about that. That I was like, wait a second. And I read your poem, and it did make me laugh. And I was like, okay, I'm giving you the play by play. But I was going to sit down and I got some paper. I never journal. I found a pad of paper and I was about to draw a cloud, and I was like, no, you're supposed to go outside and find the cloud and draw the cloud that you see.

[Amy]

Yeah, well, I can't wait to see because I'm like, what? I just. I just drew a cloud. Okay, show me. Show me. It looks like a. It looks like a penis or a dragon or a lizard.

[Kat]

Can you see it?

[Amy]

Oh, it looks like a whale. It's a whale.

[Kat]

Oh, wow.

[Amy]

You know how sometimes clouds look like sex toys? Yeah, it looks.

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[Amy]

It looks rated R. It does look great.

[Kat]

Okay, I didn't see any of those things. But I also didn't put into perspective. I made it dark. I thought I was just like, this is so telling of what. Because, like. But my mood. Like, why did I have to draw it, Color it in like that?

[Amy]

Because you were doing the. This is.

[Kat]

But it wasn't a dark cloud. It was white. But this is.

[Amy]

But you were coloring in the white. You didn't have. If you had white paint, you would do a white and color it in.

[Kat]

I think I thought that the shading was gonna make me feel like, oh, this is soothing.

[Amy]

Maybe. I mean, that's. What's the beauty of sky journaling, I think we're learning, is that everyone's gonna have their own interpretation of how to draw or what to draw. I guess now we're giving details, which I would love our listeners to do this for homework. And if they could email us their poems, that would be great. Like, how fun would that Be to see just what comes out.

[Kat]

And they're pictures of clouds.

[Amy]

Yeah. Can you scan it or take a picture and attach it in the email? Because I think reading those back on air could be fun and therapeutic for listeners. So if you do send us your poem, also attach permission to share. Because who knows what may come up for you. If it's too personal, you don't have to share it. But you never know.

[Kat]

You never know.

[Amy]

And, you know, earlier I was saying it made me feel better, which I.

[Kat]

Like that you put like, I felt compassion for myself. I don't think.

[Amy]

Compassion for yourself. I felt my mood changed. Yeah, right. Your mood necessarily didn't change. I think mine did. Because whenever I name that my wild hormones or my behavior that just feels really wonky to me is likely perimenopause, I feel better. And so doing that point helped me name it. Who knows what it'll do for you? But it could be that, yeah, you just have compassion for yourself. Or maybe you do feel a little bit better.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

It's information.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Maybe it'll tell you something. The poem is now going to speak to you based on what comes out, which I don't think I have any plans of being a nun. It just rhymed.

[Kat]

Yeah. You're limited in your words.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Yeah, I did. I will say I didn't feel better. I felt compassion, but it gave me an idea of where I was. Like, it helped me. It did help me. I think the point of this was like, help you slow down and be. And it was like, okay, yes, take a second for yourself so you can recognize where you are. So then I don't go around projecting this feeling on other things. Because what I'm going through, I just have to sit it out. Like, wait it out. Like, it just. I'm gonna be here for a little bit, so I'd like to be able to know where to put this energy. So let me read you my poem.

[Amy]

I cannot wait. I'm ready.

[Kat]

Oh, little cloud, you look much like an alligator as you float through the sky I imagine you yelling, I hope I don't see you later. I get it. Sometimes you just wanna be alone. This is going to make me cry. With nothing to do, no one to answer on the phone. Is it exhausting to float through the sky all day? Does it feel like a job or does it feel like play? It sounds nice, but I guess lots of people are staring at you, judging what you look like. And if you're blocking their view, if you're giving the sun enough Space to shine or creating the right amount of shade so we can have a good time. Some people might think you haven't made, but that's a lot of pressure. And I don't think you even get paid.

[Amy]

Wow.

[Kat]

This is.

[Amy]

Long.

[Kat]

But I love it. I was really into it.

[Amy]

This is warming my heart.

[Kat]

I guess what I want you to hear from me is if you are tired of being a good cloud all day, maybe you should just be. I feel like Dr. Seuss.

[Amy]

So what I hear as someone receiving what you're saying is that maybe during this time you just need to let what it is be.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And it's going to suck.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

But it just has to be.

[Kat]

Yeah. I'm going to name another feeling. I feel silly because that poem is, like, silly. Like, as I was writing it, I was kind of like, ha, ha ha. You're like, you don't even get paid. But also, I like, relate to it a lot. And it was interesting where your mind just went, like, why did my mind just go? Like, I hope that. Or I bet you're saying, I hope you don't. See you later. Like, because I want to just, like, lock myself in a room for a couple hours.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

And be by myself. And I can't do that. I mean, I can later, but it just was right after this. It just was interesting to me that, like, my brain went there because I could have. I mean, same with you. You could have written about anything. So it's very telling. And also it did bring a little levity, but at the end it was like, yeah, I'm writing this about this cloud, but, like, I just want to, like, give myself the grace that I'm not going to be as fun or, like, energized or silly or breezy or whatever right now. I just am gonna. This is what I'm working with right now. A alligator cloud.

[Amy]

I love it. Thank you for sharing that with us. With both of us. We got emotional when we were reading ours, and then we also laughed.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

So I don't know that that'll happen for everybody, but I think. I think it's kind of neat, though.

[Kat]

Yeah. I think part of my laughter is avoidance of vulnerability.

[Amy]

Well, yeah, it was kind of funny, though, when you made, like, the. You don't even get paid.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Like, there's.

[Kat]

There's a little joke.

[Amy]

There's levity in it. And also. Yes. What's going on with you could be like, oh, let's avoid this. Let's laugh. So I don't cry. But I just I think it's. Could be a neat activity for people. I don't know what's going to come up for people, but if you need to laugh and cry or just tap into whatever you're feeling, then it also takes the pressure off of it being about you because it's about the cloud.

[Kat]

Yeah. And I'm not good with just random journaling.

[Amy]

You need a prompt.

[Kat]

So it was helpful to have like a prompt. And it was like a simple prompt. I didn't. I just wrote that poem. I didn't write anything else in there of, like, how. What's going on?

[Amy]

That was just off the cuff.

[Kat]

Well, no, I meant, like, I didn't expand on my feelings after that. I feel like. Right. You are good at, like, writing about your day when you do it.

[Amy]

Yeah. Pages.

[Kat]

Yeah. And you even reward yourself with money. This seems if you do a good job.

[Amy]

That's just. I'm keeping it in there. I found it in there. And then also, I don't know why this ripped out, but maybe I was angry. But that was August 2024, so you never know when I'm gonna grab what journal I need to go around the house and collect them. And then I need to finish each journal because I would like to see it through.

[Kat]

Yeah. So thanks for that tip.

[Amy]

You're welcome. Hey, [e-mail] is where you can email us your poems and your permission. Right. Your consent form, like I.

[Kat]

Your release of information.

[Amy]

Yeah. Because we're HIPAA up in here. Well, you are our therapist. Hipaa. Is that what y' all fall under? Hey, it's Amy Brown and I cannot wait to cruise with you on the Top shelf Country Cruise. Setting sail. February 2026. Most mornings I'm going to be out possibly doing some yoga on the pool deck or hitting the jogging track for a little morning walk and talk. Whether you're into deep stretches or just wanting to chat about all things in life while getting your steps in. I'm your girl. And don't worry, it's not all wellness type things. I will be in the front row cheering for Lunchbox and Charlie Chase during their epic blackjack tournament. And the real showstopper, an exclusive live outdoor performance from the incredible Leann Rimes at the pool deck under the stars. Yep, it's going to be magical. There's something for everyone on the Top shelf Country cruise. Relaxation, music, and lots and lots of laughs with the entire Bobby Bones show. So book your stateroom now. On the Top shelf Country Cruise, brought to you by Signature cruise experiences. Head to topshelfcountrycruise.com that's topshelf countrycruise.com here's.

[Commercial Speaker]

What I love about Impossible. You don't have to pick. It tastes great. It's delicious meat made from plants so you get to eat good and still go big. I'm talking about full on protein and full on cheat day meals without the cheat day fills. It's fuel for your body. And it tastes delicious. That is the most important part. Right. It comes from plants. It grills like beef. It's not. Or it's. And it's impossible. Look, I love burgers. There's nothing like the grill going nice summer afternoon, getting that perfect burger, stacking it high, the whole deal. Right? Summertime burgers. But I also like knowing that I'm not wrecking my cholesterol or feeling super heavy afterwards. It's everything you love about meat without the guilt of meat. Impossible. Let you have both. It's awesome. So if you're like me and you want to eat good and you want to feel good, grab some impossible meat products next time you're at the store. Red packaging. You can't miss it. It's everything you want from meat and everything you didn't expect from plants.

[Amy]

Our therapists, hipaa. Is that what y' all fall under? Hipaa. Can you say that?

[Kat]

Fall under. You can say hipaa.

[Amy]

I don't know. I always feel weird talking to you about things that, like. Because I don't want you to get in trouble. But I know doctors and nurses, like, they're under hipaa.

[Kat]

Health information is yours.

[Amy]

Like, do y' all take. Is it the HIPAA oath? Okay.

[Kat]

Both. Yeah. We can't release information of people without their consent. Right. For sure. We protect their privacy.

[Amy]

See.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

But we just have different information than a doctor would have.

[Amy]

Well, something I saw you throw in. The doc that I'm very curious about is pop psychology versus actual psychology. And I'm very curious to see what this is about. My guess is the pop psychology is a lot of what we see online. Sort of the TikTok or Instagram version of something like therapeutic that's going on in somebody's life. I don't even know the proper word of what it would be, but something. But it's like, is that actually the real definition or what that is or, you know, gets. Yeah, it gets overused and then it gets muddy and you don't really know what it means.

[Kat]

Well, and then the word, the meaning changes. So I actually found this from the therapist Uncensored podcast posted this on their Instagram. And I talked a lot about this when I did unique therapy of like what these things are and what they are in the pop culture world. And so this just took four, like popular terms and talked about what people think they mean and then what they actually mean in a clinical setting. And I want to preface this with something about language is that language changes. Like that's why there's some words we don't use anymore. There's some words that meant this and now they mean this. And like your grandma might say it meaning this, but you say it meaning this. And that's true for these things too. And I think it's important to be intentional about how we use certain words. I also saw I didn't save this because I didn't fact check it, but I'm sure there's some truth to it. It was a research study that talked about how truthful the information you're getting on Tik Tok and Instagram is when it comes to mental health information. And I think what they said is, I'm going to preface this with I don't actually know the actual. But it was something like 60 to 70% of the information you're getting on social media platforms about mental health can be incorrect. Also, I didn't read the whole article. So I want to say what I imagine is part of that probably is like it's not completely false, but it's not completely true. Well.

[Amy]

And then people are left to kind of figure it out for themselves and then they can kind of take from that without further conversation or critical thinking around it. Something I noticed about myself since we've become closer the last few years is working on my critical thinking because I tend to. Well, first of all, it's exhausting for me with my brain. Well, yeah, I mean I like to critical thinking. I can and I want to think for myself. But it can be you just want.

[Kat]

To trust the source.

[Amy]

Hiring to. Yes, I'd rather trust the source. And when I find somebody that I like or they seem to be popping off as the kids say, I will follow and start to listen and want to take in everything that they're saying. Like, you know, this. I had this with Mel Robbins, which I think just. I'm also prefacing that Kat and I might do a deep dive on.

[Kat]

I'm smiling because I'm like.

[Amy]

And Cat's been waiting.

[Kat]

She.

[Amy]

You know, you mentioned like a month ago something you used to do on couch talks when you had unique therapy podcast was deep dives and. Or were deep dives and you missed them. And I thought, okay, well, let's do a deep dive into Mel Robbins and let them. Because I think as a therapist, you see some confusion around that, which as a whole, like, there's parts of the idea that are not harmful, but if you're just kind of taking a snippet from. From social media, maybe you're not even reading the whole book, or you do, but then you're not doing some inner work to figure out, okay, how does this really apply to me? You're just sort of starting to throw around. Let them, let them, let them. Then it can be harmful and you can speak about any clients. I feel like you said you've had some people that have been confused by it, but I don't know if you can say that. Hippa, Hippa.

[Kat]

I want to save it for when we do. But, like, in general, it is a confusing idea and there's just, like, what I'll say about. And I have to watch this for myself because we do post things on social media. And even doing uni therapy, I had to constantly, like, check myself of. There's the things that go viral and the things that do really well on the Internet are the things that are the most shocking. And the truth is not that shocking most of the time when it comes to some of this mental health stuff. Thanks, Shannon. She just found the actual post and it said, analysis of 500 TikTok videos with a hashtag, hashtag mental health or mental health tips, found that more than 80% were misleading.

[Amy]

Yeah, that's scary.

[Kat]

So, like, yeah, that's the. The issue. And misleading doesn't mean that they were bad, doesn't mean that they're toxic, doesn't mean that they were, like, completely wrong. It's that they weren't completely true. And that I think the problem is with social media and mental health in even what we're doing is there is so much nuance in it that most of the interesting conversations can get watered down if we're really sitting there and talking about all the nuance. Because nuance is, like, not that interesting. Nuance is boring, and nuance is exhausting, but it's there for a reason.

[Amy]

Well, and a lot of it gets our attention because sometimes it's prefaced with and Mel will do this. And this is what I had to realize. I often was, like, sucked in by, like, this one thing will change your life. Yeah, do this and everything will change. Or be this way. And it's like, it's not that simple, but it's. There's something shocking that, like, draws you in. And so then I was hooked and not that. And by the way, the deep dive's not going to be like a slam.

[Kat]

No, it's not like a cancel thing. It's more like.

[Amy]

It's getting critical thinking, getting more information and thinking of, like, some of these really huge influencers that. Or she's not even influencer. She is now, but, like, she started off as, like, self help and coach and a lot of people in that space. There's a lot we could name in the group, the category she falls into, and you just have to, like, be aware. And I think I just bought into it all right away. And Kat had a little more just. You're more hesitant with those people than I. And so I started to use more critical thinking. And then it's like, once I wasn't. It's sort of like the veil was lifted a little bit and I start to notice things and I'm like, oh, well, that doesn't seem right. And. And Kat and I even struggle with, like, sometimes when we're coming up with titles, we're like, well, we want people to click and listen, but also, we.

[Kat]

Don'T think that this is gonna change.

[Amy]

Every single thing might change your life. Now. Have we used that before? Maybe. I. I don't. I don't know. But there might be one little thing that we feel like this could be a game changer for you, but then you're gonna have to try it for yourself and see what works. And we'll circle back to the Mel thing later.

[Kat]

But it's a hard dance. Yeah, it's a hard dance of obviously this is part of our job, and we have jobs in order to make money and being ethical. It's hard. And that also I will. As I'm saying this, we're always open to feedback. So if we do something that feels misleading, I would love to know that.

[Amy]

Oh, I want to know.

[Kat]

Yes. Yeah. And I could talk about this all day. So let's get into these. This will be like a precursor to the Mel Robbins deep dive. And again, this is not to, like, hate on her. It's more to examine things. So then you can take that information and apply it to the other things you're seeing. One thing I'll say before I get into these, what I tried to do with Mel, because I feel like sometimes I'm such a Debbie Downer with you. I'm like, oh, come on. Like, like, because of the people I'm a fan of. Yes.

[Amy]

And I'm glad you can be honest. I'm glad you can be honest and be like, amy, you don't need to fall for every single person you see on. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I just did a 10 minute meditation.

[Kat]

And it's going to change my life.

[Amy]

And you're like, oh, my gosh.

[Kat]

But, like, what works for you? Like, I don't want to. Like, what is it? Like, yuck your yum. Like, if it works for you. Isn't that the saying?

[Amy]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Kat]

I like it. Okay.

[Amy]

Yeah, don't yuck my yum.

[Kat]

Yeah. Maybe I'm like, taking a different saying, but I think that's a thing. But I don't want to constantly feel like I'm like, taking things away from you that, like, you really like her and you're really interested in and help you. So with Mel, I feel like I held back a little bit and I la. Like, we talked about her a good bit. I feel like on the fifth thing when we were doing that. Yeah.

[Amy]

And you kept your mouth shut.

[Kat]

I kept my mouth shut. And like, there. Because not everything. I'm getting ahead of myself, but like, not everything she says is, like, bad or wrong. Like, some of it's. I'm like, yeah, I agree with that. So when you finally said something, I was like, okay, let's talk about it.

[Amy]

When I finally said, like, oh, I. I'm not sure how I feel about this now. Or I couldn't even. My sister gifted me her last book and I couldn't even finish it.

[Kat]

But you came to that conclusion on your own.

[Amy]

On my own.

[Kat]

So I'm like, it is not my job to police what other people believe and think and do and pay attention to. But what I do like to do is stuff like these deep dives because it helps people critically think. And you might not even know who Mel Robbins is, but because you hear this conversation about this, you take the ideas we're talking about and you apply them to the other things you're seeing. So you pause and think about, I guess too.

[Amy]

Like, for anybody that might be a big Mel fan, again, we keep saying her because it's the example. It's the first deep dive we're going to do. There will be multiple deep dives that show up, I'm sure, should we decide to do more than just a few that we've talked about. I think there's plenty we could do, but it's also not to persuade anybody to, like, oh, don't be a fan of her. Because also, I. I don't want to bash anybody or I want to lift people up. Like, she's doing her job and she's helping, and she's helping lots of people. It's just, I think I get frustrated for you now because I see your point as to, like, you went to school and you're a therapist and you have all this work and you have this oath, like, the therapist taken oath.

[Kat]

I don't ever take an oath. But, like, we have an ethical. We have ethical guidelines we have to abide by. And if somebody thinks that we're breaking those, they can report us to a board. We have to report to that board. And we might. I mean, they can suspend our license. They can just give us some kind of.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Something we can have to do. Continue education.

[Amy]

But whereas some of these coaches, they don't have an ethical board. They can do whatever. They don't. They can do whatever they want, and it's fine. And I do think she has a lot of really amazing guests. This isn't even so much about her podcasts, because the guest she has on, like, a lot of times. They're brilliant. Yes, that's the word I was going to say. They are. And the word wasn't coming to me. Remember, I'm tired. They're brilliant and they have a lot of insight and they can help and, you know, they're reaching lots of people. But then sometimes I hear, like, little tactics that I hear her doing. Or I'm like, wait, is this genuine? Or are you just doing a manipulative tactic which we're all trying to grow and do things? So then I'm like, well, should we be trying that? You know, we've even joked on the podcast, like, you know, I know you want to send this to your sister right now. Send this to one person that, you know, just one person. Just, like, spread it. And it's like, do we have to say that if people want to send it to their sister, they'll send it to the sister?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Not like it's necessarily bad, but. But she's done an episode before where she's talking about little ways you can get people to do what you want them to do. And that was sort of one of the examples. And then I hear her doing it, and then I'm like, you can't. It just feels weird because then I'm like, oh, am I now doing this just because I'm being brainwashed? To like do this.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

So anyway, moving on. Pop Psychology versus Actual psychology.

[Kat]

See, we could talk about that for the whole podcast. Okay, this again comes from the Therapist Uncensored podcast. It's a great podcast. I will say it's very academic. They have great guests as well. They're two actual. I think they're both have PhDs but great podcast if you want to just learn about stuff. But they posted the pop psychology definition and what the actual clinical definition or like idea behind these things are foreign.

[Amy]

Hey, it's Amy Brown and I cannot wait to cruise with you on the Top Shelf Country Cruise setting sail February 2026 most mornings I'm going to be out possibly doing some yoga on the pool deck or hitting the jogging track for a little morning walk and talk. Whether you're into deep stretches or just wanting to chat about all things in life while getting your steps in, I'm your girl. And don't worry, it's not all wellness type things. I will be in the front row cheering for Lunchbox and Charlie Chase during their epic Blackjack tournament. And the real showstopper, an exclusive live outdoor performance from the incredible Leann Rimes at the pool deck under the stars. Yep, it's gonna be magical. There's something for everyone on the Top Shelf Country Cruise. Relaxation, music and lots and lots of laughs with the entire Bobby Bones show. So book your stateroom now on the Top Shelf Country Cruise brought to you by Signature Cruise experiences. Head to topshelfcountrycruise.com that's top shelf countrycruise.com.

[Commercial Speaker]

Here'S what I love about impossible. You don't have to pick. It tastes great. It's delicious meat made from plants so you get to eat good and still go big. I'm talking about full on protein and full on cheat day meals without the cheat day fills. It's fuel for your body.

[Amy]

And.

[Commercial Speaker]

And it tastes delicious. That is the most important part, right? It comes from plants. It grills like beef. It's not. Or it's. And it's impossible. Look, I love burgers. There's nothing like the grill going nice summer afternoon, getting that perfect burger, stacking it high, the whole deal, right? Summertime burgers. But I also like knowing that I'm not wrecking my cholesterol or feeling super heavy afterwards. It's everything you love about meat without the guilt of meat. Impossible. Let you have both. It's awesome. So if you're like me and you want to eat good and you want to feel good, grab some impossible meat. Products next time you're at the store, red packaging. You can't miss it. It's everything you want from meat and everything you didn't expect from plants.

[Kat]

Part of me wants to ask you what you think these mean to say. Are you okay?

[Amy]

I'm a perfect candidate because I am pop culture.

[Kat]

Well, you might be right because you might know some of these, like, clinical term, because you also are in therapy and. Okay, so I think this could be interesting. So the first one is trauma bonding. So when you hear the word trauma bonding, what do you think it is when.

[Amy]

Well, I have two things popping in my head right now. When you are bonded with somebody through a trauma that you experience together. Not necessarily if it happened to both of you, but like, I think if in a relationship, if one person is doing something to the other person, like maybe they're emotionally abusive, do you have a trauma bond relationship with that person? Like, why you stay. That pops into my head. And then also when you trauma bond with someone like you, you tell each other your trauma.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

Like you meet somebody at a bar and you're like, oh, my gosh. Which, when I was in the thick of things, I wasn't meeting someone at a bar, but I had a lot going on. And one time I was at a birthday party and my husband had stuff going on my son, like, my life, my dad died. Like my life was falling apart. But I went to this birthday party because it was someone close to me. And then at the party, I just randomly start telling someone there, like, everything going on with me. And I left there mortified. And I was like, what did I just do? But I just like, trauma dumped. And they shared some stuff back too, about their life. So I felt like that was a trauma bond situation. No, I mean, I've seen them since then, but I, like, haven't brought any of it up. And I've been. I've left there the whole drive home. Like, what did I just do? Like, why did I just unload that? It's not necessary. We're at a party.

[Kat]

So perfect, actually, because you answered the. So the pop psychology definition. Like, what people, I think when they say I trauma bonded with them, I think they're thinking that they're. What they wrote in this post is when you're bonding with someone over shared trauma or similar past experiences. Okay, so that's not in. In clinical settings, when I'm talking to somebody about trauma bonding, that's not generally what I'm. I understand when they're saying that that's what they think it means. But it's what you said at the beginning. I am going to add to what they say because I think trauma bonding can act. You can, it can be healthy and it's going to sound weird, but it can be good in a sense. So the actual definition, what they put is a situation where someone develops a strong sympathy, loyalty or dependence or attachment towards their abuser. So you bond with somebody who is. You're like, you're in that trauma with them. I'm blanking on it. But what's the syndrome where you like fall in love with your captor?

[Amy]

Stockholm.

[Kat]

Stockholm syndrome. So like that would. A form of trauma like Stockholm syndrome. But also if you go through a trauma with somebody, you're going to be trauma bonded with them.

[Amy]

So I was thinking like my sister like walking through cancer with our mom and our dad, like there were certain things we went through that nobody else would understand. Like, I mean, other people that walk through it with their parents, maybe that's not what I'm talking about. Just like in our family it was like, ah, you wouldn't get it. And I feel like we're trauma bonded in that way.

[Kat]

Yeah. So that I think there's, there's two ways you can look at that, but that's what that is. It's not just sharing stories. It's like going through the experience.

[Amy]

Gotcha.

[Kat]

Okay, so good job. A plus then.

[Amy]

I didn't think about the sister part though. But that makes sense now. So you can be trauma bonded if you both like a sibling. Like if you and your siblings were raised in a alcoholic home or something, that could be a trauma.

[Kat]

And also you. It doesn't even have to be an abuser. But let's say you walk through like in your relationship, one of your partners has a lot of mental health issues, whether that is addiction or I mean any other mental health issue. They might not be abusing you, but you're going through this very difficult time with them. And it might be hard to separate because you've been through all that together. You can be. It's like a codependency, you know, so there's trauma bonding. Next one is a fun one. Gaslighting.

[Amy]

What I know it to be is someone telling you their truth, but it's not the truth. They're trying to convince you that that's the truth. And like, you know that it's not. That they are living in their own world, it seems. And it doesn't matter. Their way is the truth and they're not gonna ever Back down from that.

[Kat]

And it makes you kind of feel crazy.

[Amy]

Yes. Yes. You feel crazy. I have been gaslit before. It feels crazy.

[Kat]

Yeah. I mean, that's pretty common. People have exaggerated it where the pop term is like, they're just lying to you.

[Amy]

Oh, well, yeah. Like, I hear my daughter and her friends, like teenagers, will just be like, oh, stop gaslighting me. I'm like, okay. Which.

[Kat]

That's what I'm.

[Amy]

Which lying. Okay, it is. But that. That seems probably more. The more pop way. But it's still lying. But it's. It's more lying but trying to convince somebody else that they're nuts.

[Kat]

Yeah. So the pop way would be the pop way. The pop. In popular culture. It's lying or just like, sometimes people just, like, disagreeing with somebody. They're like, oh, you're gaslighting me. That's just like, disagreeing. Or, like, maybe sometimes you just lie because you're, like, lying. It doesn't mean that you're manipulating somebody in a abusive way or a toxic way. I mean, lying is pretty toxic. The actual clinical term or actual clinical way it's viewed is an abuse tactic where you are manipulated to question your reality, memory, or sanity, not just disagreeing over what happened. So this is, like, blatant. Like, we're looking at the sky and it's blue, and that person is saying, what are you seeing? The sky is yellow. And you're sitting there being like, I see it blue. But, like, have I thought. Now you're starting to question, like, have I thought blue is yellow and yellow is blue my whole life? Like, what? Where they're blatant things in front of you, and it's to make you feel crazy. So you start questioning everybody, everything, and you start to feel weak.

[Amy]

And if there's a power dynamic, then you definitely do, and you'll eventually just be like, okay, fine, it's yellow versus.

[Kat]

Versus, like, your daughter being like, no, I was home at curfew because they don't want to get in trouble, you know?

[Amy]

Yeah. That's just lying.

[Kat]

Yes. Okay, next one. This one grinds my gears sometimes.

[Amy]

Triggered yum's. My yucks. This one really. This really yucks. My yums. Okay, wait.

[Kat]

Triggered.

[Amy]

Triggered. Okay. I just have one thing that's coming to mind, and it's when you are having an emotional a vis, even a visceral, like a physical.

[Kat]

You're so smart.

[Amy]

Shut up.

[Kat]

No, really.

[Amy]

Okay. Thank you. Pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. No, I mean, just you're having a. A response to something that has happened because of something that has happened to you in the past.

[Kat]

Okay. Yes. So pop psychology says someone makes you uncomfortable or annoyed, like, oh, she triggered me.

[Amy]

Okay. So it doesn't always have to be because of something in the past.

[Kat]

Well, that's the pop psychology.

[Amy]

Oh, sorry.

[Kat]

The actual ding, ding, ding. Amy, a trigger is something that causes a sudden increase in symptoms, like flashbacks and PTSD or compulsions, like an ocd, not just a source of general discomfort. So, yeah, it's. Something's happening. It's bringing up this actual visceral. Use that big word. Visceral experience that's creating. Not just like, oh, I was angry or annoyed or it bothered me, but, like, it's bringing up symptoms that have to do with your trauma or OCD or something like that. So good job. You're three for three, girl. Are you ready to go four for four?

[Amy]

I'm 75 so far. Hit me up. I'm gonna get a hundred.

[Kat]

Okay. But if you don't get 100, it's also okay.

[Amy]

Thank you. Intrusive thoughts, thoughts that are intruding.

[Kat]

This one's probably the hardest.

[Amy]

Well, but here's how I see it. Again, with my brain. Thoughts that are taking over. They're interrupting what I have going on.

[Kat]

And are they thoughts that you really want to happen?

[Amy]

No.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

They're not welcome necessarily. I haven't invited them there. I'm not trying to think them. They're just there, and I want to make them stop. Like, I think of. I don't know if this falls into the right thing, but I. When I was in the throes of my eating disorder, I felt like I had a lot of intrusive thoughts. Like, about everything.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Like what kind of workouts I was doing if I walked enough. Like, what was on the menu. Like, you can't eat that.

[Kat]

Oh, you're.

[Amy]

As a. Why'd you eat that, you idiot? I mean, I guess it's negative self talk, but they felt very intrusive in that. Like, it was ruling my life.

[Kat]

Yeah, part of that is true. So pop psychology, intrusive thoughts. Random thoughts or impulses that you might actually want to act on. So sometimes, like, people will say, this is what I think a lot of people are saying. Like, in their tick tocks and stuff, I had this intrusive thought. And, like, it's something you might want to do. Like, I had this intrusive thought. So I went and spent 500 on makeup. Like, it was an intrusive thought that I had to give into or Like, I wanted to eat cake, and so then I went and got a piece of cake. Versus what intrusive thoughts actually are unwanted or involuntary thoughts that go against your real values and desires. You don't want to act on them, and them coming true would be your worst nightmare. They can be very prominent in distressing, in disorders like PTSD or ocd. OCD is a big one. Like, they have all these intrusive thoughts that they just. Like, it makes them cringe when they think about it. Or it's like some. It can sometimes be like, harm, harm. Some kind of harming to themselves. And it's like, no, I don't want to actually do this, but I'm thinking about it and then there's comes shame with it, and it's very problematic. It's not just like, oh, I had this thought of, like, going to buy this skirt, so I had to go buy it.

[Amy]

You know, that sounds like an impulsive thought.

[Kat]

Well, the impulse would be doing it.

[Amy]

Right.

[Kat]

But it's intrusive. Like, it's coming in.

[Amy]

And so they had the thought and then they go buy the skirt.

[Kat]

That's. That's just. Oh, yeah, what you're saying. That's an impulsive thought. Yes.

[Amy]

Yeah. Because I'm like, that's not as bad as, like, I have a thought of, like, I can't believe I just ate that. Now I need to throw it up.

[Kat]

Yes, yes. But, like, part of you. Like, I don't really want to be purging.

[Amy]

No.

[Kat]

Like, I have this intrusive thought that I can't get rid of. And sometimes with ocd, it's like, it feels like you can't get rid of the thought until you. Yeah. Then have the impulse. But a lot of those impulses, you don't actually want to happen. So it can be very confusing because you're like, what does this mean? Does this mean that I want this? Does it mean. You can ask yourself, does it mean I'm bad? Does this mean there's something wrong with me and it's not true? Like, you can't help those things. That's the, like, higher level. And I think sometimes when we're talking about, like, I had this thought that I wanted to dye my hair, so I went and dyed my hair. That's a little different.

[Amy]

So you wouldn't put that as a real, like an intrusive thought.

[Kat]

And I think, well, that's what I'm saying. With how words are changing, meaning is it kind of waters down. So we have to clarify that this is this, and this is this. Now, those thoughts can also be distressing, depending on who you are. So I don't want to use any of this as a blanket statement of you might not want to dye your hair and you do it. You feel like you didn't want to do that, or like it's something that maybe you loved your blonde hair.

[Amy]

And then like, I want to get bangs. Yeah, so is that I. I woke up with that.

[Kat]

That's kind of an impulse, though, thought.

[Amy]

And when I say woke up, I barely slept. So when I woke up from my little nap last night, I woke up. Should I get bangs? Because I have a hair appointment tomorrow. No, Wednesday. And I want to get bangs now.

[Kat]

What I would wonder with some of those things a lot of times, because I have that stuff where I'm like, I mean, I must adopted a dog yesterday. That's an impulse. And that comes from more. So my anxiety and ADHD and me just being kind of an impulsive person and. Or me needing some kind of. I mean, we all know how I'm feeling right now. I need some kind of, like, high to hold on to. I had to be like, catherine, if you're going to get a dog, you got to sit on it for at least a week versus if you were going to make a change. Like bangs. Is that really just an intrusive thought or is that this, like, desire for, like, feel good and change? Yeah.

[Amy]

Yeah, got it.

[Kat]

So again, like we were saying, there's nuance in everything. So this conversation is bigger. But generally I wanted to highlight, like, there's a difference in how we use some of these words and what they really mean. And that doesn't mean that, like, this stuff over here doesn't matter, but sometimes it can be confusing for people. I'm thinking about, like, when people. This is something that, again, grinds my gears is when the way we talk about bipolar, when they're like, oh, that she was so bipolar, or she was being so bipolar. That's not what people think bipolar disorder is. Isn't that you're. You're thinking. A lot of times we say that when somebody's hot and cold. And that's not a lot of times what somebody with bipolar disorder even looks like. And also, that's something that they can't help. And it's an actual mental health disorder that.

[Amy]

Yeah, I think that I've been guilty years back in the past of being like, oh, I'm so bipolar right now, like, using that word flippantly and.

[Kat]

But I think no shame to you. That was normal.

[Amy]

I think so. But I think we also then have a responsibility once we, we learn. I personally, in the last several years, I feel insensitive saying that now. So I wouldn't say that because maybe that's because I had an experience with someone for the first time that was. And I hadn't before. And then I had a new found respect for what they were going through. And I don't want to minimize what real people with bipolar are.

[Kat]

And it's like kind of mean.

[Amy]

Are dealing with. Yeah. Because it's like, okay, yeah, no, that's actually not bipolar. Let me, I'll show you what is. And you don't want it. I mean, it's, it's hard and.

[Kat]

Yeah. And it's like you're saying that as an insult. So it's like if, if somebody. And people do that too, like, oh, they're so adhd, it's like, okay, it's kind of mean. I have that and like that. I, I don't want you to talk about my behavior that I can't help like that or that things are hard for me. And it's also, it's bigger than that.

[Amy]

Like that's right now on social media. Like everybody has adhd.

[Kat]

There's, there's phase. Like we're going through the phases of every disorder at some point. I feel like, like it's. Everybody has adhd, everybody has autism, everybody has ocd, everybody. I see that in my office as like a, A constant revolving.

[Amy]

But I don't think I have any of those other things.

[Kat]

But I think this is part of that too, is we all can relate to, to symptoms of all of those things. Like we can all, I mean even we can bring in personality disorders, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder. We all have traits of those. I have traits of both of those. That doesn't mean that I have those disorders. And so that's also part of the issue with people. How do I say this?

[Amy]

Maybe just seeing on social media if someone's like, oh, if you can't find your keys, you misplace things all the time. You have time blindness. You can't ever be on time. Then it's like people like, oh my gosh, I have adhd. But they've never actually gone and been tested.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

To figure out if they really have it. Because it's a, It's. I've been tested once in college and then later probably in the last five years from someone you connected me with because I Kind of thought, well maybe I've outgrown it.

[Kat]

Some wishful thinking.

[Amy]

And I was like, haven't. Yeah, still the same. But I think if you, if some of those things are sounding familiar with you, then yeah, and you have the resources, try to do the steps to go get tested.

[Kat]

So then, well, it can feel, when you see those videos, it can feel like, like a relief to have an answer to some things that you might not like about yourself or some things that you've been struggling with. So I think that's one of the reasons we grab onto that. Like I must have this. But also it causes panic in other people of like, I've had clients come into my office and, and be like, why haven't you told me that I have this? And I'm like, because you don't. And also sometimes in diagnosing specifically like more so personality disorders, there is a, a nuance in, in giving that diagnosis also in like really figuring it out because it's over diagnosed and I mean under, it's misdiagnosed all the time. So I can't just know somebody for a couple sessions and be like this. Is that what you have? For sure. So.

[Amy]

And you're knowing the version that's showing up in your office.

[Kat]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Amy]

So.

[Kat]

And over time, yeah, over time hopefully you start to see like the cracks in the presentation versus the reality. And as a client, I show up, try to show up with my best self as well in the therapy room. So I think that that's, that has created some difficulty in being a therapist because of this stuff. And again, I am saying that as I am hosting a podcast talking about mental health. So I know that I have to monitor that too. And I want to be open to that feedback too. If I'm presenting things in a way that feels too overarching or too, I wanted to say simplized. That's not a word. Simplistic, sure. But anyway, my whole point in doing this and reading this is just giving us again a way to critically think more and opening our eyes to the bigger picture of what some of these things mean. And it's not to shame anybody because if I didn't work in this field, I, I would be on the pop culture part of all of this. Like how, why else? Why wouldn't I?

[Amy]

Welcome. Welcome to our side, I guess. Yeah. Being so close to you, it's helped me and I appreciate it and I think others listening will appreciate this too. It just gives you a different perspective when you're doom scrolling which Pro tip. Set a timer. Doom scrolling in itself. Not totally bad, but if you're doing it for a long period of time, stop. It'll change your life. Just kidding.

[Kat]

Set this timer. It'll change your life in five minutes.

[Amy]

That's all you need. Let's close with a. A win, big or small. So my son is in summer school, and something the principal said they're doing is encouraging the kids. Like, they have a big poster board and they're writing down their wins of the day or wins of the week. Big or small doesn't matter. But each kid has to participate. And he was just sending out an email to the parents talking about how it's really cool to see them be able to look at their day and look at their life and come up with something like a win, big or small. So for both of us, today's been you more so than me. Like, I'm just tired. You have other things going on, and you're feeling melancholy and like an unpaid cloud.

[Kat]

But I showed up.

[Amy]

But you're here and you showed up, and I guess let's just find a win. Like, what's a win for you? Oh, that. You showed up.

[Kat]

Yeah, that's what I was.

[Amy]

Oh, that was your win?

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Oh, you. You were doing it.

[Kat]

You want a bigger one?

[Amy]

I feel like that's big. No, I get it.

[Kat]

You showed up.

[Amy]

That's your win.

[Kat]

And I'll do, too, because it was a win for me to do that exercise because I don't usually do journaling. So for me to actually stop and be like, okay, I can stop and do this, and I'll get back to my work in a second.

[Amy]

I need you to go home and read your poem to Patrick, your husband.

[Kat]

He's already been so sweet today, so I wonder if he'll be like, oh, my gosh.

[Amy]

He's gonna be like, let's frame it.

[Kat]

He's gonna. You can quit your job, stay home. Right?

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I'm just kidding. I don't want to quit my job.

[Amy]

You need to keep that. I know, but we all have those moments where it's like, I'm done.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

I'm moving to Mexico.

[Kat]

Is that where you would move?

[Amy]

No. I don't know why I said that.

[Kat]

Okay.

[Amy]

I think it's. My cousin is moving there. Oh. Yeah. I don't know if she said that publicly yet, so I won't say which cousin.

[Kat]

Yeah. You have so many cousins.

[Amy]

Who could have so many cousins? I do. I have lots of cousins on my dad's side. My Mom's side.

[Kat]

What's your win?

[Amy]

My win is by Mexico, though, I did mean, like, more of, like, the Pacific side. Maybe I could see myself going there. Not, like, Nueva Laredo or something.

[Kat]

Oh, I've never even heard of that city.

[Amy]

Oh, it's the border. Okay, let me. Let me think of a win. I've been good about drinking my water today. I have my measuring cup, and that is what I'm gonna do because I've been getting headaches, and I know it's because I'm dehydrated. So cheers.

[Kat]

I have all my water bottles, and you have your measuring cup.

[Amy]

This is my favorite thing to drink out of. I will drink all my water if I have my measuring cup. And I know it's made of plastic, and I don't know if it's giving me microplastics in my brain, but it's fine.

[Kat]

Do you really want me to cheers you? Yeah. Okay.

[Amy]

Let's just close with a cheers, because we both did it. This is our wins. We're winning.

[Kat]

Cheers.

[Amy]

Winning. Who used to say that? Charlie Sheen.

[Kat]

Oh, I didn't.

[Amy]

You don't remember, Right. When hashtagging was becoming a thing, you.

[Kat]

Just cheers me, and then you didn't drink.

[Amy]

Oh, do you have to drink after.

[Kat]

You cheers and you have to make eye contact?

[Amy]

Oh, my gosh. Alex, my boyfriend, he told me that exact same thing. He said, I cheers and look away.

[Kat]

Do you want to know where cheers came from? Did I tell you this already?

[Amy]

Don't know.

[Kat]

I learned this when I went to Italy. So cheers came from back in the day. The Romans, the whoever.

[Amy]

Oh, yes, yes. They have told us.

[Kat]

They would all cheers their glasses to make sure, and they would clink them, so a little bit would go into other people's, and it would make sure that nobody poisoned each other. Because, like, you. I'm not going to poison you because you're going to clink my glass, and then I would be poisoning myself.

[Amy]

Bam.

[Kat]

More.

[Amy]

You know, that is a fun fact. Thank you for letting us know.

[Kat]

You're welcome.

[Amy]

People can use that this weekend.

[Kat]

Wait, I think that was from the Romans. Or was that from the Boston. Did I learn that in Boston?

[Amy]

I feel like you had come back from overseas when you told us that. It was, like, on the fifth thing.

[Kat]

No, huzzah is from Boston. They would cheers and go, huzzah.

[Amy]

There you go. It's okay. We're not okay.

[Kat]

We're not here to give you historical facts.

[Amy]

We're not a history podcast.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Amy]

We're a therapy podcast. Yeah, because Cat's a therapist and we hope you have the day you need to have.

[Kat]

Bye Bye.

[Amy]

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[Commercial Speaker]

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[Amy]

Surprise for you.

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[Kat]

This is an iHeart podcast.