AMY: Peeing in Public, Fertility Struggles, & Shame vs. Guilt

Summary

Podcast Summary: "AMY: Peeing in Public, Fertility Struggles, & Shame vs. Guilt" – The Bobby Bones Show

Release Date: April 20, 2025
Host: Amy Brown and Kat Van Buren
Publisher: Premiere Networks

In this insightful episode of The Bobby Bones Show, Amy Brown teams up with licensed therapist Kat Van Buren to explore the nuanced emotions of embarrassment, shame, and guilt. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, they dissect how these feelings influence personal growth, relationships, and overall well-being.

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1. Introduction to "Feeling Things"

Kat Van Buren [01:15]:
"Ladies and fellas, we just follow in the spirit where we tell the real stuff to the chill stuff and the in between. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop and feel things."

Kat introduces the segment "Feeling Things with Amy and Kat," setting the stage for an authentic dialogue about complex emotions. They emphasize the importance of acceptance as a cornerstone for personal development.

2. Embarrassment: Amy’s Public Peeing Incident

Amy recounts a humorous yet relatable incident that led to feelings of embarrassment.

Amy Brown [02:27]:
"I was down there, eye level with all the tortillas, acting like I am sorting through the tortillas. I'm like, okay, I don't want this kind..."

While navigating the tortilla aisle at a grocery store, Amy felt an urgent need to urinate. With no immediate access to a restroom, she resorted to squatting discreetly, trying to conceal her discomfort from onlookers. This experience left her feeling embarrassed, highlighting the vulnerability associated with such moments.

Notable Quote:
Kat Van Buren [05:04]:
"I've had to hold my pee a lot in radio, sprinting to the bathroom, and squatting in public because I don't have time to lay out a liner."

3. Pelvic Issues and Their Impact

The conversation shifts to pelvic and bladder concerns, with both hosts sharing their experiences.

Amy Brown [02:27 - 03:51]:
Amy discusses her pelvic bladder issues, noting that despite not being pregnant or having given birth, she experiences similar challenges. She speculates that her frequent need to hold her urine, especially during long work hours in radio, contributes to her discomfort.

Notable Insight:
Holding urine for extended periods can exacerbate pelvic issues, a topic Kat further explores by suggesting possible remedies and exercises to alleviate such problems.

4. Distinguishing Shame from Guilt

Kat delves into the core topic of the episode: differentiating between shame and guilt.

Kat Van Buren [15:31]:
"Shame is guilt's dramatic cousin that shows up uninvited and makes everything personal. Because shame is where it gets real, real personal and beyond dramatic. It takes guilt to the next level."

She explains that while guilt pertains to specific actions ("I did something bad"), shame affects one's self-identity ("I am bad"). This distinction is crucial for understanding and addressing these emotions effectively.

Notable Quote:
Kat Van Buren [37:33]:
"Shame reminds us that we're limited and human, and it helps us recognize our need for connection with others."

5. Fertility Struggles and Emotional Turmoil

Amy opens up about her and her husband's journey through fertility challenges, sharing the emotional toll it took on her self-esteem.

Amy Brown [41:18]:
"I felt like my body was broken... but we really didn't know. And it wasn't my fault."

Despite undergoing numerous tests and consultations with fertility doctors, no clear answers emerged. This uncertainty led Amy to internalize feelings of inadequacy and self-blame, despite understanding intellectually that the issue wasn't solely her responsibility.

Kat Van Buren [44:00]:
"I don't want you to be hating on your body or hating yourself or feeling like you're broken."

Kat emphasizes the importance of reframing these feelings, encouraging self-compassion and support rather than self-criticism.

6. Coping with Shame and Guilt

The hosts discuss strategies to manage and mitigate toxic shame and guilt.

Kat Van Buren [51:03]:
"Guilt helps sustain alignment with ourselves. We have to know what our alignment is."

She suggests that acknowledging guilt can lead to positive actions, such as seeking forgiveness or making amends, thereby fostering personal growth and healthier relationships.

Notable Strategy:
Embracing healthy shame involves recognizing one's limitations and the human need for connection, which in turn opens the door for mutual support and understanding.

7. Analogies and Metaphors

To illustrate the differences between shame and guilt, Kat introduces the "dirty shirt" metaphor.

Kat Van Buren [69:28]:
"Imagine you're wearing a white shirt and you spill coffee on it. Guilt says, 'I spilled coffee on my shirt. That was clumsy. I should be more careful next time.' Shame says, 'Of course I spilled coffee. I am such a mess. I ruin everything.'"

This vivid analogy helps listeners grasp how shame attacks one's core identity, while guilt focuses on specific behaviors and encourages corrective measures.

8. Celebrating Positive Coping

Amy shares a personal triumph in handling a minor accident without falling into shame.

Amy Brown [70:14]:
"I was really, really proud of myself that I just was like, silly me. Silly. I was like, gosh, now I'm gonna have to go make another one. And I just went and cleaned it up."

By celebrating her ability to respond calmly to a mishap, Amy reinforces the value of constructive coping mechanisms in overcoming shame.

9. Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Amy and Kat reaffirm the importance of understanding and addressing shame and guilt. They encourage listeners to seek support, embrace their imperfections, and practice self-compassion as pathways to emotional well-being.

Kat Van Buren [81:53]:
"We can have compassion without forgiveness... So compassion allows me to understand. You can have compassion and say, 'I get it,' but you don't have to forgive them."

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Key Takeaways:

• Embarrassment vs. Shame vs. Guilt: Understanding the distinctions helps in addressing each emotion appropriately.

• Personal Growth: Embracing and acknowledging uncomfortable emotions is essential for healing and personal development.

• Support Systems: Seeking help from loved ones and professionals can mitigate the negative impacts of shame and guilt.

• Self-Compassion: Being kind to oneself fosters resilience and healthier relationships with others.

This episode offers a heartfelt exploration of complex emotions, providing listeners with valuable insights and practical strategies to navigate their own experiences with shame and guilt.

Transcript

[Amy Brown]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service support in 90 plus days device knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Kat Van Buren]

If you've listened to the four Things podcast for a while, you know how important acceptance is when it comes to personal growth. And you know who else is big on acceptance? Discover. Yeah, you see, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. That's a whole lot of places and a whole lot of acceptance, which is great for Discover, but even better for you. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card every.

Morning brings a fresh, new energy. And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it. We get the best start to the day because we started together.

[Matt]

Watch the Today show weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Kat Van Buren]

If you ever have feelings that you just want some, Amy and Cat got.

You covered like a number. Ladies and fellas, we just follow in.

The spirit where it tell the real stuff to the chill stuff and the in between. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stop and feel things.

This is Feeling Things with Amy and Kat.

Happy Tuesday. Feeling Things. I'm Amy.

And I'm Kat.

And I guess we should say hi to YouTube. Hey. Hey, YouTube. We are on YouTube now, so we feel very excited about that.

Everybody watching us on YouTube.

Hi mom. Hi, dad.

Hi Patrick. He's actually probably not watching.

Kidding. My parents have both passed. Okay, but I'm sure your parents are watching, right?

I don't think my dad's ever been on YouTube before.

Well, dang it. You need to get him an account so that he can subscribe.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, this is the day to subscribe though, because today we are talking about shame and guilt.

Big day.

Big day. Feelings that really need to be talked about together because we confuse them a lot.

I definitely do. And I think a lot of us feel one or both things on a regular basis. But before we get into guilt and shame, I want to get to the feeling of the day we didn't even practice that. I think it's. We're just finding our groove, but our feeling of the day is embarrassed. And this feeling came about because I was on the tortilla aisle. Well, wasn't even getting tortillas. I just happened to be on the aisle in which they sell tortillas at the grocery store, when suddenly I got this urge to pee. And we've talked about our pelvic issues before. Way back in the day on the fifth thing, before we turned into feeling things. So if you're just tuning in, you're like, wait, who, Who? What happened to Four Things with Amy Brown? Well, Kat was my co host on the fifth thing, and she's a licensed therapist, and I knew I wanted to pivot the podcast somehow, and we were having so much fun together. So here we are with feeling things, and we've. We were talking about pelvic issues a lot on the fifth thing. Like, I don't know if it's just an age thing, because I've never given birth. I knew that there was bladder pelvic issues. If you've been pregnant and you've given birth and then all of a sudden you just start peeing. But I. I have not been pregnant and I have not given birth, but yet I am still having pelvic bladder issues. And.

Well, part of that is I'm no doctor, but could be also because you hold your pee.

Yes.

For very long periods of time working.

In radio, I have had to hold my pee a lot. And then when I sprint to the bathroom, I also, because our work restrooms are public, I don't sit on them and I don't have time to lay out the liner, so I squat. And they say squatting is bad. So now I think I'm answering my own question as to why I'm at the grocery store and suddenly I have this urge to pee, and I have no choice but to either pee right there on myself in the aisle, or I squat down and just sit there squatting, kind of holding it in until it passes. So I'm down there, eye level with all the tortillas, acting like I am sorting through the tortillas. I'm like, okay, I don't want. I don't want this kind. Oh. Like, I am acting because I. I'm like, people around to me, like, they're like, either this girl has to pee or she really is looking for a specific tortilla. And I was hoping for the latter. I needed them to think that I was on the hunt for the perfect Tortilla.

Did you get tortillas?

No.

So, no.

Eventually, I just, like, Was like, okay, I think the sensation has passed. So I can. And then did you go stand up? Of course not. I waited till I got home because the sensation passed, and I just wanted to get the heck out of there, get what I needed, and then go. I didn't even know where the restroom was in this grocery store. Like, just the sensation passed, so I knew I was in the clear. Luckily, it didn't come back till I got home. Until I got home, and then I had to run to the bathroom.

But this also. I don't know if you told this story on the fifth thing or if you just told it to me, but wasn't there a time you're in an elevator and you just, like, squatted down and acted like you were looking for something?

Yes, in my bag. Because the elevator started going up and the pee started coming out, and I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna pee my pants. So I squat down in the. In the elevator. Other people in there. And I'm, like, digging know. But I'm doing the thing where I'm digging my heel into my. You know, just to create, like, a. You're not coming out.

Yeah, A stopper.

Yeah, I created a. It works. So that's my tortilla spot story. And I was.

You were internally embarrassed because nobody could tell you were.

No, no. But I. I really feel like sometimes if there's grocery store footage, like, video cameras, where they're watching people on the aisles, like, I wonder what they knew because they saw me, like, and then squat. And then. And then as people would come, only when people would walk by would I really start inspecting the tortillas. But if, like, they passed, I'd be.

Like, okay, okay, we're gonna get you into some pelvic floor.

I know.

Or maybe just even get some, like, tips of some exercises you can do on your own.

[Matt]

Right.

[Kat Van Buren]

Which we talked about. My friend Tiffany. It's literally what she does. She's a pelvic floor floor specialist. And I don't think I've ever had a full appreciation for God's work that she's doing, because I think now I need it.

Yeah. Okay.

I need it in a big way. So that is my embarrassing story. And that's why being embarrassed is the feeling of the day. And so I don't. I don't know. What do we do with embarrassed? Like, how do we lean into that? Is there a Gift.

Laughter.

Oh.

Eventually, laughter embarrassment usually comes in from the shame category because when we get embarrassed, it's like, oh. Oh, my gosh. Like, we have, like, these negative stories in our head. But through time, I think we can look back on stories that were really embarrassing, and now I can appreciate them and laugh about them.

And, like, I shouldn't feel shame about that because everybody's peed their pants at.

Some point in their life. Sure.

Right.

Yes.

Which I didn't pee, to clarify, but.

But I think there's, like. There's an internal dialogue. I'm thinking of a story that happened last week that there's this internal dialogue that automatically pops up that says, this is embarrassing. You're so. You're what a loser. Whatever your voice says. And then I have to come back with another voice that's like, actually, nobody cares. So then that story just gets to be funny. I was working out last week, and the class, I think, was on Saturday. Yeah, Saturday. The class is kind of small, usually not very small. This girl walks in, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. I know her. And the last time I saw her, I was walking in the Target parking lot, and she called out. My name, was like, cat. So of course I was like, she's gonna say hi to me. Well, she doesn't. And we were in different stations, so I was like, maybe she doesn't want to, like, interrupt me or whatever. So the whole class, I'm like, this is weird. She feels like she's avoiding eye contact with me every time I try. You know when you're trying to get somebody's attention and you keep looking at them, thinking, you guys are gonna, like.

And then you never do.

But then it feels like she kept, like, avoiding it.

So then you're like, what did I do to her?

Or I'm. Yeah. Or then I'm like, what if it's not her? She was wearing a hat, but this girl always wears a hat. So then finally, we're switching stations, and she was putting her weight up, and I needed that weight. So I was like, this is my chance. So I went up to her, and I, like, walked right in front of her, and I, like. I think I put my hand up, like, hey. And then she made a face at me, and she said something like, how are you today? Or something. Like, this girl, she didn't know who I was at all. So I just did one of those things. I was like, hey, oh, I will take those weights.

Don't mind me. She was like, how are you today?

And I was like, oh, great, thanks. I'll take those weights. And then the rest of the class, I'm like, did she think I was trying to say hi to her? Did she think that or did she. Whatever. Was that awkward? And then, as we're leaving, I'm like, this girl's never gonna think of you again, ever, until she sees me in class again. But it was embarrassing in the moment. And I told myself a story of, you should be ashamed. And then I.

That you were trying to be nice to say hi to someone that you thought they were, and then they weren't like, it's not a big deal, but that also. We build it up. Yes.

And it comes from one of my. I wouldn't say greatest fears, but most common fears, because this wouldn't be the biggest deal in the world is people not remembering who I am. So saying hi to somebody and then being like, do I know you? Which I've done before.

Yeah. Do you know that when you're meeting someone, like a. Or you are. How do I say this? Like, you're not meeting them. Let's say you've already met them, but you don't know if you have.

Yeah.

And there's confusion. You can say, and so saying, oh, nice to meet you, you say, good to see you.

Maybe that's what that girl was saying to me.

Yeah. Well, that's just like a. Yeah. Like a tip to have in your back pocket of like, oh, I don't really know how to handle this. You can be like, oh, good to see you. And that way it covers all your bases. Because then if you say, oh, nice to meet you, then they're like, we've met, like, three times. And then you're like, oh, shoot, that's right. But if you say, good to see you, like, you're still saying, good to see you.

Yeah.

You're not saying good to see you again. You say, just, good to see you.

Yeah.

Because if you say, good to see you again, and they're like, we've never met, then it's like, oh.

So if anybody ever says good to.

See you to you, they might be using the trick. Speaking of embarrassing things, did you see that thing on Instagram where Rumor Willis was talking about bathing with her older siblings? Which I'm not embarrassed for her at all. Like, if that's what they're into or that's what they do in their family, she's not embarrassed. But I think I. I just was thinking how I would feel bathing with my older siblings, and I Would feel embarrassed getting naked.

Then there'd be some shame coming up if you. Yeah.

Yeah. I just didn't know if you saw that. And it just popped into my head of like. Is that weird?

Yeah, I'm. Let me.

I'm. Pull up.

I don't want to say because I don't know the circumstances of this. Just blanket statement. It does sound.

Interesting.

Interesting. It's interesting. Yes. Okay.

So. Okay. She said. Okay. It says, rumor Willis said she still takes bath with her adult sisters. She said, that's just the kind of house I grew up in. People may think that's crazy and weird, but I don't.

But how old is she?

They're adults.

Like, 30.

Yeah.

How big is your bathtub?

Good question. I imagine they have very wealthy parents.

Maybe it's large, but also. Why.

Yeah. Yeah.

Those are the questions that. Why is probably. We need to know the question.

We need to know.

I want more information. But when I also was thinking about, too, if you needed your sister to bathe you. That's not weird.

No. No. Like, I bathed my parents when they were sick, which felt weird. I. I was talking about this with my boyfriend the other day, actually. How. I don't. Nobody should have to, like, bathe their dad's.

Yeah.

Area. But I did, and we got through it, you know.

Yeah. It's just.

It's not a high.

Yeah.

But it's also not the lowest of lows. I mean, pretty low. It's pretty low. Even for him. Like, there was a lot that he had to. Speaking of shame. Yeah. That was hard.

So that's not concerning. That's just one of those things that's. It's, like, tough or. I know that when I was in high school, I broke my collarbone. My mom had to help me shower. I had a lot of shame, and my mom was like, catherine, I birthed you. I'm like, yeah, I was a. It's very different. I'm, like, 17.

Would you think you could handle her bathing you now? Oh, I guess you have a husband.

Yeah. Patrick would probably be the one to do that, but honestly, I don't.

You're lucky.

Yeah.

You have, like, a. I think your.

Boyfriend would bathe you.

Well, we're not there yet. I don't know. Maybe.

Okay.

I mean, I guess he could, but. Tbd.

Okay. Well, who would you rather have bathe? You, me, or your sister? Oh, your sister.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

If I had to pick. But then if my boyfriend and I get married, then I'll have that locked in. Although he is Way older than me. So let's be honest. I'll probably be bathing him before he's bathing me. Okay.

He's 80 years old.

Sorry. If he's listening right now, which he's.

Probably not, but he's watching us on YouTube is what he's doing.

That is right. I'm gonna make him subscribe. So he's. I'm 44. So we're eight right now because of our window. We're eight years apart, and then in a few months, we'll be like nine.

That's not that.

Well, that's old. He's. He's 52, which I now have. Rumor. Willis's age, since we were talking about. She's 36 years old.

Okay.

So they're. They're. They're adults. Well into their. Yeah. But hey, if anybody listening. If you bathe with your adult siblings, we want to know. Reach out to us. Tell us what that's about. Maybe we're. Maybe for. Maybe we're missing out. I'm excited to get into the gifts and impairments of shame and guilt, but we mentioned earlier about mixing them up, and that's something that I do often, and I wanted to share something that my therapist once told me. She said that shame is guilt's dramatic cousin that shows up uninvited and makes everything personal.

I love that.

Yeah, my therapist is good. I mean, you're good, too, but thanks. But you couldn't be my therapist. But if I could hire you, I would.

But is this a therapist that I know?

No.

Okay. I was going to say, well, she's good anyway, so I learned everything from her.

She's great. But this is a different one. I'm sure that the other one would say this too, but I'll say it again for those in the back or if you're listening on YouTube, low volume. Shame is guilt's dramatic cousin that shows up uninvited and makes everything personal. Because shame is where it gets real, real personal and beyond dramatic. It takes the guilt next level.

Well, so how I've always explained it. I'm gonna steal this. So thank you. Is guilt says I did something bad where Shane would say, I am bad. And that's where that, like, dramatic, like, it makes it personal.

Yeah, I like that, too. I felt, I think, both shame and guilt. On Friday, what happened? My son had a track meet, and I didn't. I did not want to go.

Track meets are tough sometimes.

They're long. They're.

Yeah. And you.

They're real long. And it had Been a long week. And we switch on Fridays. So with our co parenting, we go Friday to Friday and it's like they leave my house Friday morning for school and then Friday afternoon they go home to his house or vice versa. So got them off to school Friday. Well, and then I'm at work doing my thing. Then it was a long day and it just was like I just really did not want to go. Um, and he's racing for five minutes cuz he does the mile and he is fast. So he does the mile, does the mile in five minutes and stop 30 seconds or something.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

Is. Does he win?

No, no. Some kids run it in 4 minutes and 45 seconds. Yes. And they are hauling. Like I don't, I don't, I don't know how they're doing it, but I knew that I would feel bad if I didn't go. First of all, it was far away and I knew Ben was taking him, it was fine. But I was like, oh. Part of me is like, I don't really have to go. Like this is one of those things where I guess I don't have to. But even having that thought made me feel bad. So then I also was like, okay, if I don't go, like, I'm a bad mom. I'm. I'm a terrible mom. Like, I need to go. So ultimately I decided I was going to feel best if I went. But I had the thoughts, all the thoughts that were like guilt and shame because now I'm a bad mom.

Well, you, you had the guilt that helped you actually do what made you right.

It motivated me in the right direction. Like, I don't want to feel guilty because I know that it will mean a lot for him if Ben and I are both there. And Ben and I can't always both be there, especially when there's multiple track meets every in the week, depending on a weeknight, if there's work stuff going on, we'll tag team. And I know not every parent listening can be at every kid's sporting event. Like, I even think of my boyfriend. Like he's got three kids and in his situation he's the only one available. And it's hard to get to all their stuff. They have some grandparents in town, so luckily, you know, they can come in or other family friends, but a lot of times they're riding with friends and he's not able to be there. So I understand that for a lot of parents it's like, oh, don't feel bad. Not everybody can always Be there. But I did. I felt bad. That got me to go. But then I felt like if I didn't go, I was now a bad person.

The punishment was exaggerated.

Yeah.

Where it was really like, oh, man. I. I probably. If I think about it, that would have been the. The right thing that would make me feel the best. Versus this cancels out everything I've ever done for him in my life.

Right. And then also, I didn't want it to be about me feeling better. I really wanted it to be about just showing up for him.

Yeah.

Like, that's what it should be about at the end of the day. And you know what? He was so excited that I was there. And he ended up running two events, and he was like, are you going to be able to stay for the next. And of course I did. But then it was like two hours later, and then I was driving home and then speaking of my boyfriend and his. Then his son had a basketball game like, 30 minutes away. So then we went to that.

What do you do for two hours in the middle of the.

Well, I paced the parking lot a little bit, trying to work on a video that I was doing for Instagram, and. But then my phone was gonna die, so then I had to go in my car and set it down on the little charger thing. Cause I don't have the wire, so I couldn't work on it because, like, in the console. So I'm getting a wire.

What is he doing?

Stevenson, Like.

Yeah.

Hanging out with his friends, like, in the middle of the track. And then they set up. They start setting up the hurdles. So then I call my boyfriend, and I'm like, hey, is there like a sequence of events? Because I don't understand the order of things. And because he was a athlete, like a decathlete, which is every track event. And he broke a record in high school for hurdles. Actually, he still holds the record. And remember, he's 52, so this is a long time.

Can he still hurdle that?

People have not broken his record. He doesn't. I mean, I'm sure he could, but he doesn't run much these days. But it's just fun fact about him is that he's got that record.

Ah.

So I'm like, uncle Rico. I'm like, show me what you got.

Who's Uncle Rico?

Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Actually, if you.

Why is this not ringing a bell?

I've seen that Rico, he's throwing the football and he's like, still thinks he's this football star. No, I've never seen it.

So my memory is not good. But I have seen it. I've seen it like probably 10 times.

Well, I'm just surprised you haven't heard the Uncle Reef Rico reference. But that's totally fine if you haven't. So I don't feel shame about that. Don't feel shame about that because that helps me know. I probably need to explain my references. Cause I'm. If. If my boyfriend was Uncle Rico, it. What he would be doing if he were, that is like I would show up at his house and he would have hurdles set up in his driveway and he would be running them. Like that would be Uncle Rico living in that. So thankfully we're not living in that heyday. Although if we do go to the high school he went to, which that's where his kids go, you can see the record.

Have you seen the wall? Like plaque on the wall.

Yeah. And people talk about it. I'm like, what's it? What's it like? We actually ran into his track coach somewhere and they were like, I think. Think we got a good possibility to break your record this year. So like a good. Like a student that might break it.

Play. Did he run track in college?

He did, yeah. @ UVA.

Oh, wow. No Olympics.

No Olympics. Did he think about it? I. Good question. I haven't asked him that. I'll ask.

Okay.

Did you ever think about the Olympics?

You have that record from high school. Isn't that what that means?

But so back to him being a decathlete. He knows all the events because he did all the events. And I wanted to know how long I might be waiting because I was like, is there a universal. Is this the order we go in? And he was like, well, typically. But I don't know about junior high, but for sure in high school and college. So anyway, two hours later I was able to leave. But I'm so glad I went. And Stevenson was so excited. And for me it was the right thing to do for him. Not for my guilt and shame, I guess.

Well, it's attached to what you think is what you know is going to make him happy too. It's okay. It's okay for it to be for both of you guys.

Okay.

That's not a bad motivator.

So you're giving me permission.

Yeah. That goes to like the. It's okay to have those like selfish, selfish motivations sometimes where it's. I know being a good mom, part of that is bringing joy to my kids lives and my kids knowing that their mom is Supportive of them. So that's mutually beneficial. That's okay.

Thank you. Yeah. Okay, well, that's my little example, because I just had that scenario on Friday. Okay, so now let's get into the meat of things.

Yeah.

So do you know that analogy?

Can you explain it to me? So you have a plate.

I'm thinking then there's the bones and then there's like, the meat.

Oh, I'm thinking of, like a plate and it's like the.

Maybe that's where that does come from. Like the meat and potato. Like we just.

Meat and potatoes.

Sides.

Yeah.

Like, we started with the salad and then we just had, like. I just served up a little side dish with that story. And then now you're gonna get to the meat.

That's what I was thinking.

Okay.

You always thought that was about the bones.

When you start talking, I'm gonna look up where that comes from. Because we'll start with Shane. We'll start there and get into, like, the core need of that.

[Amy Brown]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Matt]

Hey there, folks. I am Matt.

[Joel]

And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.

[Kat Van Buren]

Oh, dude.

[Matt]

Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever. So we're gonna try to find something along the coast. Maybe. Maybe some sand to dip my toes into.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

But how about you?

[Joel]

Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.

[Matt]

I know. I know about Helen.

[Joel]

Yeah, Well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a Hot tub. Which I'm definitely going to need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there too. Oh, that is right.

[Matt]

I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb. Earning some extra cash while you are away.

[Joel]

True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host when you.

[Radi Dabluka]

Haven'T found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California Psychics.

[Kat Van Buren]

Okay, so back to if you're new, little refresher. We're going through all the eight core feelings, and we're talking about the need attached to them. The impairment if you avoid the feeling.

Just laughing. If anybody's new.

Why?

Well, like, why would they. Why is that funny? I don't know. It's just like, maybe. Maybe they stumbled upon us. Like just this episode on YouTube.

They could have been the next video that came up. And they look fun.

You're right. You're right. No, I know. Oh, or they're. If they've downloaded, because I guess if I'm starting a podcast. Okay, True, True confession.

You act like we can't. New listeners.

I've listened well to. To.

That's our third episode.

Yeah, but if this was four Things, which this is the Feeling Things is the rebranded version of that, this would be episode like 653, not just the third. So you're right. But see, I feel like, did people go back to the beginning and start, or did they just pick up wherever?

I do not go back to the beginning of a podc, okay? Unless I run out of episodes and then I'm like, oh, I want to listen to more.

So I'm gonna go back 650.

If somebody was like, hey, I started listening to this new podcast, okay?

And this is the episode, and this.

Is the next episode, okay?

So if you are new, welcome. Hi. We are running through.

Are you trying to shame Me?

No. Okay.

No.

I just thought it was funny. Of like, I know we have our loyal, amazing listeners that have been with us a long time, and of course there's gonna be new ones finding us, and I want that. I guess I just think it's funny sometimes we're like, if you're brand new here, which I hope we need to act as if that's very normal. I'm sorry, I derailed that.

One million new followers on YouTube, right?

Yeah. Act as if we must start from the beginning. It's actually blowing up. So much so that I think we probably should slow down.

Oh, you think? Okay.

Yeah, it's looking a little. Weren't we watching someone on Instagram the other day where she was saying that, okay, we have to sidebar this for a second because I feel like I. I don't know that I believe her. I just feel like sometimes people say things on Instagram and it's not real and they're acting like this is their strategy and what they're doing. They're like, things just blew up for me so fast and I didn't know how to handle it, so I had to, like, regroup or things I don't know.

I believe. This is what I believe about that. A video. So we. We were watching a video that was giving a strategy for Instagram. She was talking about what she was doing. I. What I believe is true is that she blew up really fast and she was, like, overwhelmed because she's a normal. She's just a regular person with a regular job. She wasn't an influencer. She posted a couple videos that just, like, she went from a. What? What a normal. Like a 500 followers, thousand followers to like 30, 000 within like a month, I think. And then now she's what, had over half a million.

Yes.

If not more so I think she did blow up really fast and didn't know how to handle it and didn't know how to keep up with the content that she felt pressured to make. What I don't believe is that she did what she said she was doing. We tried it and it didn't work.

Yeah, but you know how we didn't want to believe back in the day, back in the day that boy bands were curated and put together? We. Did you talk about. Did you.

What are you talking about?

You know, they were. They were put together because they're best friends. No, see, that's what I'm talking about. I just feel like sometimes I wonder if Instagram has these people and they're like, oh, this creator could be something. Like, we're gonna blow them up, and we're gonna make this a thing, and this is gonna be our local project. And we make it seem like she was this nothing that went to something and. And, you know, just like we thought Justin Timberlake and his boys just got together and formed a band, you know, and they were. They were. Did it all.

There's a machine behind it.

Yes, there's just. That's just my theory.

Would you want to be one of those people?

I mean, no. I don't know that I. That. That. That's my lane. I mean, if they wanted to give you stuff, that. That would be helpful. But I don't know what the expectations are with her of that. But her content is really good. Like, she's handled the blow up well. I'll just say I think she's handled it well.

But from what.

There is a narrative that it was like, a lot, and I'm just this overnight success when really there might be more to it. Now there are true, like, people that have had something for years and years and years, and then they genuinely do organically blow up. Like that happens.

Yeah.

I just don't know that that's the vibe I'm getting from that. And she was feeding us these hacks that I think are just a trick.

To get us to do them. Yeah. We got got.

Because we tried and we. It didn't work.

Not even close. Okay. Do you think I'm rubbing off on you and you're becoming a little bit more skeptical?

Maybe you are, because there are so many people that I used to believe and fall for and love, and now I'm like. It's like I catch. I see things more and I'm like, see things more clearly. It's like I put my cat glasses on.

Cat vision.

I have now have. Yes. Therapy. Cat vision. Because you're skeptical of most everybody.

Yes. And I learned that by liking people and then being like, wait a second, you tricked me, so you tricked me. Speaking of that, who's the guy that was behind NSync? You said his name.

Oh, Lou Perlman.

I watched that documentary. Did you watch it?

Yeah.

I forgot what it was called.

Like, Lou Perlman's a nasty, nasty man. He's a dirty dog. Is that what it's called?

No, it was called, like, Dirty Pop or something.

But, oh, yeah, that Dirty Pop.

Two things. I didn't finish it because after I think. What, halfway through. It was a couple episodes, I got the point. But that was One of those things where it looks on the outside like they're having the time of their life, and on the inside, they're not. So maybe that girl is not having the time of her life on the inside either. You know, who looks like she has all this success, but she might be really struggling. The other part is, and then at.

Night, Instagram's like, locking her in a room. Like, film this content. Or like those dancers. You know, those dancers that are in that cult, and they look like they're having all fun dancing. And then turns out, who knows? When the camera's not on, who knows?

That was another documentary that. Yeah, I watched that whole thing. But what I was gonna say is what I learned and I really took away from Dirty Pop was the blimps.

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was in, like, aviation and blimps before.

Where did all go?

I don't know.

When's the last time you saw a blimp?

I actually wrote not too long ago, actually.

Oh, okay.

Well, then you're wrote in a Goodyear blimp. I got to take the kids up in it for work.

Well, they were saying that he, like, maybe crashed all his blimps insurance money or something. I don't.

I don't think I was in his blimp, but I was in a blimp.

But blimps were like, blimp, blimp. Such a weird word. They were everywhere, and now they're nowhere. And also, they were like a big money. I mean, the advertising dollars for a blimp. That's where he made all his money.

Yeah.

If we could have got our hands on one of those. Put feeling things on it.

Oh, gosh. Yeah, that'd be nice. People would be like, what is that?

It was just a weird. The fact that those were. That the blimp was in the NSYNC documentary was interesting to me, but it made me think. I've never. I haven't seen a blimp in a long time.

Yeah, well, I got the. I know the origin of get to the meat of it. Okay. Because we're about to get to the meat, and it means to go to the most important part of the problem, just as it means the most important, important part of the meal. The expression is rooted in the idea that the meat of a meal, like the main course, is the most substantial and important part. Although I feel like bathing with your adult siblings is pretty substantial, you know?

Is that the meat of our podcast?

Definitely not. While the potatoes or side dishes are less significant. No rumor. Willis bathing with her adult siblings is definitely the potatoes. And then, like my track story, side dishes, you know, tortilla squat.

That could be meat, though.

That's not meat. But that's a special sauce or it's a tortilla.

It holds it all together.

It's the wrap that holds it all together.

So should we get to the meat?

Shame? Also, the name of the documentary is Dirty pop, the boy band scam.

Oh, Backstreet Boys. That was in there too, right? Yeah, he was with all those.

Yeah. So shame.

Okay, all right. So shame, like I was saying, if you're new here, we're going to talk about the need behind every feeling, the impairment if you don't feel it, and the gift if you do. So shame is a confusing one because a lot of people will say, how can that ever be good? But there's two types of shame. There's toxic shame and there's a healthy version of shame. It's the way I really view it. So the need around it is some kind of attunement, Whether that's attunement with other people or attunement with self. And when I say that, do you know what attunement means?

Sometimes I think we use being in touch with. Yeah, yeah, dialed in.

Dialed in, yeah. Yes.

I just phonetically, like, started to break it up and then go back into, you know, what's the language? Latin. I broke it down root wise. And then I.

What's the Latin root of attunement?

What? I was just.

Didn't you take Latin?

No.

Oh, who was I? No.

Have I convinced you in some way that I have?

Well, I think that people used to do that instead of taking like, Spanish or.

Oh, yeah, no, people still take it. I think actually one of my boyfriend's son takes Latin, but I was just picturing. Tune. Yeah, Dialed in. Attunement. Put two and two together. Smart. Okay. Attunement.

So. And then if we are not feeling. If we're kind of trying to avoid the shame and not really sitting with it, even though it's uncomfortable, what happens is that ends up turning into like a toxic self attack. That's where they're like, I am bad. Comes in where we start kind of tearing ourselves apart. That's toxic shame. Okay? That's the kind of shame that really isn't helpful. If we can sit with our shame and tolerate it, that's where we get healthy shame. And that helps us know that we're limited and that we're human. So I'm not going to say that shame is my favorite feeling to feel out of the ones that are uncomfortable, but it also is one of. I mean, they're all necessary. It is one of the most helpful because it reminds us that we're human, we're limited, and it reminds us that we need people. So if I am not allowing myself to acknowledge that I need people, there's going to be, like, a wall between me and you. Also, if I don't acknowledge that I'm needing people, I don't allow other people's gifts to shine. So even in this pairing, there's things that you do better than I do, and there's things that I might do better than you or things. There's things that I might know more about, and there's things that you might know more about. And by sitting in our shame, which is says I am limited, we allow each other's stuff to come up and shine.

Yeah, I love that. I'm looking at our feelings wheel and the. The other words that are associated with shame. Humility. Insecure. Weak. Exposed. Embarrassment. Disgraced. Unworthy. Disapproval. Unlovable. Unlovable. That hurts.

That's a lot of the. Yes. Go to the gifts of shame.

Okay.

And what's on there?

The gifts of shame. Con. Containment. Humanity, Humility, and respect.

Yeah, there's respect. And also there is that story. I don't know if we talked about on here or not, about the. The mom, Shannon gave it to us, didn't she? The mom that asked for the salt. Salt.

Oh, yes. Okay. So it was a neighbor that didn't have as much. It looks like. Picture two neighbors. I'm going to paraphrase the story. So there's two neighbors. One neighbor has more than the other. And so the people with more. The mom of that family went over and asked the people, the neighbor that had less, for salt, because salt is something they had that was probably a resource they could spare. And the kids of the house with more, they were sort of like, why did you go ask them for salt? And the mom said, I. I know they may need to come to us for things, and I want them to feel comfortable doing so. So if there's this mutual respect of, like, I am going to come ask you for something, then you can feel safe coming to ask me for something. Yeah, just like this. Reciprocity.

Yeah. I feel respected when people come and ask for some. I mean, I don't always have it right. But when somebody comes to me and asks for something because of whatever reason, there's respect there. Where they Value you. That feels really good. And if we are not allowing ourselves to sit in. In that healthy shame, knowing that we're limited, we're never going to be able to offer that to somebody. It's like, I'm going to be on an island by myself. And I think a lot of times the toxic shame happens for people when they grow up in households where. And this is not done in a malicious way at all. But if we come from, like, an overprotective or overbearing household or a household where things are done for you, things that you probably could do for yourself eventually or Atlanta to do, this thing happens where then you are out on your own and you didn't learn how to do these things. Right. And then you also didn't learn how to ask. So then you just feel this, well, I guess I'm dumb, that I can't do this or think about, like, I know this for me, with finances. And I know you've talked about this. I've just always said to myself, I'm never going to understand that. And, like, when I get married, somebody's going to take care of that for me. Or, like, my dad's going to explain it or something like that. I don't need to know. And then when I was single, unmarried until I was 34, I avoided it because I didn't want to have to ask for help because I was like, well, I should know this.

And so then you're embarrassed.

So, yeah, and so there's that, like. And I remember meeting for a. With a financial advisor for the first time and saying, like, I feel so stupid that I don't know this. And he was like, you're not. How would you know this? And that's what we're here for. And I'm going to take my knowledge and help you. Just like, if I was coming to you with. For therapy, you're going to be able to help me. I thought that was a nice way of putting that.

I like that.

But I'm not his therapist.

No.

Mostly because I dated him.

And then. But also. Really, could you, like, could you be the therapist to your finding? No.

No. Like, legally, that would be a mess.

That'd be bad.

Yeah. Especially with the stock market. Oh, you're like, that's my money that you're stressed out about losing.

So for years, I carried shame towards my body when I was trying to get pregnant. I'm trying to think of what year Ben and I actually started trying for a baby, but it wasn't explainable. So we Went to fertility doctors and we tried to get answers. We did certain tests and we didn't know. So I just would put that pressure on me. And I think Ben did the same. Like, well, then it must be me. Or it could have just been that he was in the Air Force and he was deployed a lot. And, you know, sometimes it takes a lot of tries. And maybe when I was ovulating, he was gone, but, I mean, we were trying to do all the things right on. During the 60 days he was home, because he would be 60 days deployed, 60 days home. So those 60 days home, what you have two chances of getting pregnant. And we weren't able to. So I just felt like my body was broken and a lot of my friends around me were all getting pregnant. And my sister has four biological children. And so to me, being her sister, like, well, what's wrong with my body? My body's broken. My body is bad.

What's wrong with me?

When we. Truth is, we really didn't know. And no, I wasn't broken. And we had a different story for how we were going to become parents, which eventually was adoption. And that is beautiful. I still do have certain thoughts sometimes. Like, I wonder if I could still ever get pregnant and have a baby. But then I guess if I did, then would we know? Like, oh, so maybe it wasn't me. Like, I would have. Do I want that? Maybe just for that validation of, like, I'm not broken. Because for so long I. Of, like growing up, like, that's what I wanted to be was a stay at home mom. Like, I just wanted to get pregnant and then stay home with my kids. And thankfully, like, I have a whole career now. And because that's what happened for me. If you ended up a stay at home mom. That's not what I'm saying. I probably shouldn't have said.

You didn't say that. I thought that.

Well, I said thankfully. I just. I guess thankfully I have a career and I didn't have all my eggs in that basket or I'd still be sitting around waiting like, what, what am I doing? Um, but I was able to have something that I could focus on. And then we were able to adopt. But I know that there's other people out there that might be in a similar situation with fertility. And I just don't want you to be hating on your body.

Yeah.

Or hating yourself or feeling like you're broken.

And I. I think it's easier sometimes for us to jump into the shame bucket before we jump into the sad Bucket or the fear bucket, or name any other emotion maybe that has to do with how we grew up and the messages we were given as humans or really just as women. It's really easy to jump in there. Versus, I'm really sad this isn't going this way.

Or I'm glad you said that about the messaging, because it's like you. You feel like growing up, like, this is the one thing you were designed to do and you're not able to do it.

And you're supposed to do it. You're the one that's supposed to do it.

Like, if we were on some show, like, I don't want it to be Handmaid's Tale. Like, I don't want it to be that, you know?

Yeah.

But, like, I would be. Not just. Okay, maybe it's not that. Or if it was way back, if we were getting weeded out, I'd be weeded out.

Isn't that what they did in him? I didn't watch it because I couldn't deal with it.

Like, I stopped watching it eventually, but I'm just, like, going way back in time. I mean, him. It still is really freaky.

Yeah.

To even think that. Because that's, like, now. And what if it looked like way back then? But I'm just saying, like, way, way, way, way back.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have been a part of what was desirable because I couldn't.

But there's more to you than that.

Yeah. Like, way, way, way, way back then. I could have done a podcast. Just kidding. There was no technology. I could have been a town crier, and I could have stood in the middle of the town square and then, like, you know, told jokes.

You could have been one of the. Maybe that's the same thing. But when they would all come to the thinking of in Roman times, in the Coliseum, and they would.

Oh, like, I would put on a play.

Yes.

Oh, I could have been a fesb.

No, you couldn't. I think only men could do that, actually. Right.

Probably. They even played the women characters, so.

Okay, well, you would have changed the course for history.

I could have been a. I don't know.

Basket weaver.

Yes. Maybe I could have helped clothe the pregnant women.

Yeah.

And brush their hair. Like that. Made me think of that scene in Dirty Dancing. My sister and I reenacted that sometimes when she brushing her hair and she was like. What did she say? She was like, you have really pretty hair, baby.

I've never seen that.

You've never seen Dirty Dancing? Oh, my gosh.

You should just assume. I haven't seen the movie. Who's brushing whose hair?

The sister. Oh, she calls her Baby. Baby is her name. It's her character. Francis is her real name Francis.

But nobody puts Baby in a corner. Comes from that. He just called her Baby.

Or she says something like, want me to do your hair, Baby? I can't remember exactly because my brain just kind of popped to that scene. I. I don't know why. I tell you, my brain goes places when we're talking, and then it's like, completely not related to what we're talking about. And I'm like, brain, stop it. You're trying to focus. Because I really want to focus on what we're saying. And then that's where I go. And then now I talk about it and I'm taking everybody else's brain there and it's like, yeah, why'd I derail?

That's also, like, the fun of having a conversation with you.

Is it fun, though? Because I see videos on Instagram of, like, this is what it's like talking to my ADHD friend and the people that are. What do you call it? Like, neurotypical.

Yeah.

They sit there looking at their ADHD friend.

Like, get to the point.

What is going on?

The only time it's frustrating and I say this is I do it too. Is when you're trying to get something done or I frustrate myself. Otherwise, it's like, oh, we bring so much diversity into this conversation.

Oh, yeah, we're so diverse.

Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe I would be able to tell jokes. Kermit the Frog didn't exist then, but I just had a Kermit the Frog joke that popped into my head that is kind of funny. You want to know what it is?

Are you going to do it in his voice?

[Amy Brown]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now, keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch. Up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days. Qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Matt]

Hey there, folks. I am Matt.

[Joel]

And I'm Joel from the how to Money show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.

[Matt]

Oh, dude, typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some insp. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever, so we're going to try to find something along the coast. Maybe. Maybe some sand to dip my toes into.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

But how about you?

[Joel]

Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.

[Matt]

I know about Helen.

[Joel]

Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub, which I'm definitely going to need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there, too. Oh, that is right.

[Matt]

I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb, earning some extra cash while you are away.

[Joel]

True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host when you.

[Radi Dabluka]

Haven'T found love, it could feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California Psychics.

[Kat Van Buren]

Kermit the Frog didn't exist then, but I just had a Kermit the Frog joke that popped into my head that it's kind of funny. You want to know what it is?

Are you going to do it in his voice?

No. What did Kermit the Frog say at his puppet? Because he's a puppet. So he has a puppeteer, the person at his puppeteer's funeral.

What did Kermit the Frog say at his puppeteer's funeral?

Not a word. His puppeteer said.

That's a joke and a riddle.

Oh, you know, we're diverse, remember?

Okay. Any other thoughts on shame? We shame and guilt. We've within each other. So we can still talk about shame as we move on too.

Okay, we can move on to guilt.

Okay, so guilt also very helpful. Guilt helps sustain alignment with ourselves. We have to know what our alignment is.

My word of the year.

Oh, yeah. So have you been feeling a lot of guilt this year?

No, I just wanted to.

Maybe not because you're just so in alignment that the guilt isn't coming up.

I'm feeling in alignment mostly. Unless my son has attract me.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

So the need around guilt a lot of times has to do with forgiveness. It could be ourselves or forgiveness with somebody else or a group of people or whatever. So when we're unaware of our guilt and we don't allow ourselves to actually acknowledge that we feel guilty, that moves us into the toxic shame realm as well. And that's where these are, which I guess your therapist said cousins. They are. They want to be best friends, but we need them to have, like, a little bit of separation.

That's like our eyebrows.

Sister, was it?

We want them to be the same, like so many people are. Like, I want my eyebrows to be identical. But brows are cousins, not sisters, not twins.

Brows are the same as guilt and shame.

Right.

Okay. So it's easy.

Especially mine, because I have to draw mine on every day now.

They look good.

Thank you. Okay, 30 minutes.

But we don't. We don't want ourselves to feel guilt. What we will do a lot of times also is we'll deflect or we'll get really defensive. And then what we don't do is live in our values. But then we'll excuse it and we'll blame a lot of showing up in ways as I'm describing this, I'm like, this is nobody that I would ever want to be hanging out with. But we all are going to do it at times, so there's that. We can take some of that shame and pressure off of us. And then if you are feeling your guilt, your guilt helps show you what's important to you, what your values are. And it helps you maintain relationships, too, with yourself and other people. Guilt says, hey, that wasn't really what you wanted to do. Maybe you might want to go talk to them and ask for forgiveness or ask what you could have done better. And you can also do that for yourself.

Yeah, I like that gift. That's what. That's why you were saying with the. The guilt about wanting to go the track meet. I. Because I felt that that's great information because now I get to show up how I want to.

Yeah. If we don't. Yeah. If we don't ever feel guilt is there because we're avoiding it, and then we're living in shame and also not being who we truly are or we are.

So, like, psychopaths don't feel.

I would imagine, not shame or guilt.

Yeah, I would imagine sociopaths.

Yeah.

Yeah. Makes me think at the time that guy said I was a sociopath.

See, but you're not. Wait, what did you say when you were like, I feel empathy.

So a little backstory here. Is somebody in our life.

Not in my life.

He was in your life. Don't get it twisted. He was somebody in our life. Said I was a sociopath. Ish. Or acting sociopathic or something like that. And I had to Google exactly what that meant because I didn't know the difference between the psychopath and I'm like, okay. And I want to lean in. If I'm having that, I want to know so I can fix it. So I'm like, what is a sociopath? And it said, one of the things under there is they have no regard for the law.

Oh, that's what it was.

I said. And I said, I have regard for the law. I'm not. I'm not a sociopath. Yeah. I have regard for the law.

You do like to follow rules, and.

You'Re a good person. Rules.

But I. What is funny about that? Was that in a. That was in an email. Right. You would be the last person in my life that I would. One of the last people that I would say has any qualities of that. So for somebody to call you that. I think that's when I lost it. And I cried.

Oh, yeah. Because I sent you the email. You're like, I can't even read this. I'm crying. Shannon's typing me notes right now about psychopaths. She said they see no shame or guilt, even when the person's behavior was obviously hurtful, which is that they're.

I wouldn't call this a superpower, but that's the. Why they're able to do what they do, because they don't have those feelings, which it feels very foreign to us. Right.

So then are we supposed to have grace for that in a year? Okay. No. No.

What do you mean by that?

No. Well, I guess I feel bad that they can't feel. I know that's their responsibility, but what if, like, they literally can't feel? Let's take out serial killers and stuff murder. Like, maybe they've never. Because there's plenty of sociopaths or psychopaths that haven't killed people.

Well, you say somebody of like a narcissist who, like, might not have any empathy.

Right. And I, when I really boil it down to the root of their problem, I do feel bad and I try to have some grace, but there's also boundaries. So can you have grace and you.

Have compassion without forgiveness?

Freaking annoyed.

Yeah. So compassion without forgiveness. Compassion allows me to understand, like, imagine somebody in your life who has really hurt you, but maybe somebody in their life really hurt them.

Okay.

A parent. This happens a lot with people who have parents that have caused them a lot of pain, Whether it's abuse or neglect or something like that. We can have compassion and say, I, I get it, nobody taught you and you were doing the best you could and I don't forgive you because it was not okay and I deserve better. So compassion without forgiveness.

But shouldn't we always forgive? Ish.

Personally, I think no.

Okay.

But that's not. I mean, it's up to you. You're allowed to.

Well, I don't know. Just going back to. I mean, just generally speaking, like, maybe you don't have to forgive them, Religious stuff aside. So let's set that. We're not. We don't need to go down that path. But even just the, the saying that's pretty popular about that of like, it's like drinking poison. It's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, I think that can be reversed.

And forgiving somebody can actually feel like. Or being forced to forgive. Somebody can feel like drinking poison. Because a lot of times when we forgive people, it is. It's forced forgiveness where it feels like it's the shame. It's like it feels like, I have to do this, I should do this. Everybody's telling me that I should do this, but it doesn't feel right. And I am. Imagine somebody who has abused you or hurt you or something like that. It's. Yeah, I can have compassion for humanity, maybe not for that person, depending on the situation. I'm using a really extreme situation. I can have compassion for humanity and I can heal and move forward and not forgive this person.

Okay.

I think that is fair and possible. But also, if you want to work towards forgiveness, there's no shame in that either. If that's something you want. I just like to send the message that you don't have to do that to heal.

Right. And forgiveness is a very, very, very personal journey and choice.

So just giving options, I think is helpful. You can, you don't have to. You'll be okay if you don't. Yeah, depending on the situation.

Depending.

Okay. Okay.

What are we talking about? Guilt. We're talking about guilt.

We're talking about guilt.

I think we were talking about guilt. I had the same thing with guilt, though, with my. My body and not being able to get pregnant. So the shame was just. So we can keep practicing. The difference between. The shame was I am broken. The guilt was, I can't give my husband or us a baby. Like his family name, biologically, you know, like, he. He really wanted a baby, as did I. And I felt guilty that we weren't able to do that.

But what. I think this is where shame and guilt get confused in that space. What were you doing wrong? That was living outside of your value system?

Well, nothing outside of my value system, but I still felt guilt. Like, if it was my fault, then I felt guilty. But we didn't know.

But yeah.

So I put it on myself that it was my fault.

Yeah. Versus. Because I'm thinking about.

Because there are people that do have the fertility. Doctors say, actually it is your body. Like, some women are like, yeah, but your fallopian tubes, or it's your whatever. And then with. Or the guy, it's like, it's your sperm situation, you know, so somebody may have that situation. We were left in the unknown. So at times I felt that guilt of, like, Ben married me, and now I. If he had married somebody else, maybe he could have gotten the baby.

Yeah, but you're creating a whole story.

I know. Yeah, but don't we do that even?

Yeah. And also because I'm thinking about myself in this, too. Patrick and I are trying to conceive, and it's not been the easiest road, and it is because of something with my body. But I didn't do anything to, like, I didn't do anything. I just was born into this body, and the world works in mysterious ways. And I have this thing, and I noticed myself apologizing to him and saying, I'm really sorry because of the things that, like, we've had to do. Like, it's not been as fun and, like, even silly things where I'm like, he used to go test his sperm. And we were just, like, laughing about it. Like, I'm sorry you have to do that. That's really awkward.

Right.

And I'm sorry that I have to pay for this doctor's appointment. And then I was like. He was like, it's okay. And then I had to have that moment of, like, no, Offense. But why am I apologizing to you? Because I didn't do anything. And that's where I can sit in the humility part, which it feels wrong to say shame, but healthy shame. I can sit in the humility part that says, like, I am very limited. There are things that are limited about me, and I need extra help. So I need extra doctor's appointments or I need. Like, I made my mom go with me to a doctor's appointment the other day because I didn't want to go by myself. Like, I need help. And that actually is, in a weird way, bringing me closer together to people than pulling me farther apart.

Yeah. And we want to be there for you. I know your mom wanted to be by your side no matter what, and Patrick wants to be there, and your friends. Like, we want to rally round or if you ever need to text me and vent to me about how this feels like a chore.

Yeah.

Like, I get that. Like, it feels like. Well, you're.

Yeah.

Like, the romantic part of it feels like you're taking it away from your relationship. Yes. It's like, hey. But I know a lot of people go through this. It's like, okay, I just checked the calendar, or I just took this test and looks like we need to do it at 2:02pm can you be here? And it feels very mechanical and then less like, whoopsie.

Yeah. And I think that's also where I was saying earlier, maybe you were feeling sadness or fear. And that's where I had to be. Like, I'm. Why am I apologizing to you? I actually don't feel guilt about this. I was. I think I've been living in a world that has set me up to think that I'm supposed to. So I automatically went there. But really, I'm really sad that it has to be this way because you want to just be like, oh, whoopsie got pregnant. And there's fear. Like, we have no idea what's going to happen. And with you, it sounds like there could have been fear. You didn't know what was going on.

No. So many unknowns. I mean. And it started to take a toll on our relationship. And then eventually we decided to go the adoption route. But even with that, I was on board with that before Ben. And then he kind of had this aha moment where he's like, yeah, this could be really beautiful. And it's obviously what God had in store for us. So I see that now, like, looking back. Yeah. When you're in it, it's really hard to see. But it's like we've talked before about the mosaic. Like, we can't see everything. We can't see the big picture. We're looking at the up close piece of the tile, and the more we get to step back, little by little, we get to see the beautiful piece of art, which is our. Our lives.

Yeah. Yeah. And something to remember. And obviously I have to remind myself this too, is just because you didn't get what you wanted doesn't mean you got nothing. And I think that is helpful in the moment. Like, in the moment I'm not getting what I want, but it doesn't mean I have nothing. I have. So there's so many other parts of my life that I can lean into. And then also, in retrospect, you can look. It's like, just because I didn't get what I originally wanted, doesn't mean I didn't get anything. Look, I. I do have this family. I do have kids, and I do have a career.

Yeah. I want to reach across the chair and hug you.

I noticed as I'm start tearing up, and then you started tearing up, and I was like, yeah, we're too.

We can't move. We're on a set because we're on YouTube.

Yeah.

So don't move anything because we're on our set. But maybe we need to. What do they call that in when you break the.

The fourth wall? Which. What does that really mean?

Well, like, your people behind the scenes, like, they would be. We'd be breaking the fourth wall. Like, they get to see, like, some of the behind the scenes. It's not like, the perfect, like, curated shot.

Oh, yeah.

So maybe we just, like, screw this setup that we've done perfectly.

Shannon would not like that.

Bring in the other camera that shows, like, everything's, like, taped perfectly, so we know. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Which, speaking of Shannon, she says breaking the fourth wall in film, theater, or television means that a character acknowledges or directly addresses the audience, breaking the illusion that the audience is not present. Oh, so that would be like that. Oh, so that's like in the office, when they look at the camera and start talking to the audience. So I had that wrong.

We. We are breaking the fourth. Well, I guess when we're like, hey. When you're like, hey, YouTube, that's breaking the fourth wall.

Yeah. Or maybe it would be like, if I look directly in the camera and I'm like, cat just started crying. You, like, narrate kind of what's happening, and you let them in because some people may not have picked up on that. That you were emotional.

Oh, yeah. It's like she's usually laughing and perky, and then she just, like, fumbled over her words and. Yeah, the camera was on Cat's like. I zoomed into her eyeball.

Yeah. So, yeah, we've got Cryo Cat running the cameras, and then Shannon's in here helping with us. Okay, so Shannon is sending examples. A character looking directly into the camera and commenting on the plot. Oh, that'd be like that. Like, you. You could look into the camera and be like.

And then she pulls out her fertility calendar.

Yeah. Or you could clarify. To reiterate, Amy is not a sociopath.

Oh, yeah. Are you asking me to do that? Obviously, she's not a sociopath or a psychopath. I can say that with utmost certainty. I don't know a lot of things.

I do know that you're a licensed therapist.

You do know a lot of things.

But.

Okay, there are a lot of things I don't know. That's better.

I do know that a character speaking directly to the audience as if they are part of the scene, and then a character acknowledging the audience's presence or the fact that they are watching a show or movie. We've been doing that. Yeah, we're like, if you're new here, I.

First of all, I was watching a, like, reunion of a reality show, and they said, breaking the fourth wall. They were talking about how, like, the produce. They're giving info about, like, the producers doing something. They're, like, not to break the fourth wall, but, like, so and so was filming and. And, like, giving, like, behind the scenes.

Yeah. I feel like that falls under that.

It's like, it's not as curated. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought it was. Yes. Bringing in, like, another camera that gives you a different angle of the whole thing. Like, you're seeing, like, if I were to be able to give you a hug right now, that wouldn't be on part of the show because you don't hear a hug. But I guess if they brought in the camera and saw me hugging you.

Yeah.

But right now I'm just gonna, like, pretend hug.

[Amy Brown]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Matt]

Hey there, folks. I am Matt.

[Joel]

And I'm Joel from the how to Money Show. Matt, it's April and I've got spring break on my mind. Please tell me you got something fun lined up.

[Kat Van Buren]

Oh, dude.

[Matt]

Typically I am a planner, but we're actually switching things up this year. We're going to go a bit more spontaneous. I've been searching on Airbnb for some inspiration. You know, we've narrowed it down to trying to find some warmer temperatures. We kind of got that spring fever. So we're gonna try to find something along the coast. Maybe. Maybe some sand to dip my toes into.

[Joel]

I like it.

[Matt]

But how about you?

[Joel]

Okay, so we've actually got our plans locked in. I'm taking the fam to this charming little Bavarian style town called Helen. It's up in the Georgia mountains.

[Matt]

I know about Helen.

[Joel]

Yeah, well, I found the perfect cabin on Airbnb, complete with a hot tub. Which I'm definitely going to need after running a trail half marathon while I'm up there, too. Oh, that is right.

[Matt]

I forgot about the half marathon. Man, it sounds like an adventure. And you know what? While you're enjoying that hot tub, you could actually have your own place listed on Airbnb, earning some extra cash while you are away.

[Joel]

True. And now with Airbnb's co host feature, I hear it's easier than ever for anyone who's been overwhelmed by the idea of hosting. A co host can do the hosting for you and help manage your reservations and your guests. Find a co [e-mail] host.

[Radi Dabluka]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the pda. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free. And new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California psychics.

[Kat Van Buren]

I do have my dirty shirt metaphor.

Oh, yeah, I like that.

So that we can. We can close with the a metaphor. It's called the dirty shirt. Imagine you're wearing a white shirt and you spill coffee on it. Guilt says, ugh, I spilled coffee on my shirt. That was clumsy. I should be more careful next time you See the mess. You feel bad and want to clean it up. It's about the action. Shame says, of course I spilled coffee. I am such a mess. I ruin everything. And that's the cousin. That's why they're the dramatic cousin. Because now it's not about just the shirt being dirty. You. You feel like the mess. It's no longer about the shirt. It's about your identity when there's also.

What do you do with that? So guilt's. Like, I should. I'm gonna be more careful next time. I'm gonna take out of there, because I. Sometimes that word can be frustrating.

I also think before we move on in the shame part, under guilt, I think we should also celebrate when we handle something like that. Well, I didn't spill coffee on my shirt yesterday, but I spilt an entire. Like, I've got my matcha here. See, I'm breaking the fourth wall. This is my ice matcha. Oh, that probably sounded so gross in the mic. I used to hate when my mom would swallow because hereditarily, I have a really loud swallow. It's not my fault.

It's my mom's. Okay. You blame a lot of stuff on your mom. The scamming. You said that she liked it.

Yes. Well, this is a product of my environment and my turkey, but I have a really loud swallow, and I was. I just made a fresh matcha yesterday, and I was going up the stairs, and I trip over the stairs, and I spill the matcha everywhere. And I think in unhealthier times, I would have probably lost it. And then, like, which, I mean, who knows? It could be a toss up hormonally if I were to respond that way. But I was really, really proud of myself that I just was like, silly me. Silly. Yeah. I was like, gosh, now I'm gonna have to go make another one. And I sort of, like, skipped to the kitchen. I got my cleaning things. I put on more hot water to make a fresh one, and I went and I cleaned it up.

Yeah.

And it was so much easier. Like, the recovery time was so fast, and I just.

There would be no recovery if you. It was shame. It would be like, I don't even deserve matcha.

Yeah. Or I. I could have just been, like, stupid. I didn't. I didn't say that. We can whip it out, but, you know, I. I could have lost it, which I think it's okay if you want to get, like, mad in a second, but something about that. Yesterday, I just had this, like, huh, Great. Experience. And I want to acknowledge that I did celebrate it, because I think it's important that we celebrate those moments when we handle something in a way that's more breezy. And it doesn't get us all riled up, because then there's a snowball effect that happens, and then who knows the next thing that would have happened, because now my feathers are ruffled, and I'm just gonna keep being irritated and, you know, but it's like, okay, I spilled my matcha. Guess I'm gonna go. Have to make me another one.

Dang it.

Good thing I have more left. Yeah. And I can make another one, because some people might spill their matcha and not have any left to make. So celebrate those moments that you find yourself doing that. And then also have grace for the times where you're like, it takes a little longer. Yeah, it takes a little longer.

Yeah, this is. This happened today. So you're gonna be. You might be shocked by this, but I've been making eggs. Not for myself.

Okay, Patrick, you're cooking them without vomiting.

Cooking them, yes. And I. Breaking the fourth wall for those that don't know this. I can't stand eggs. But I do like making breakfast for my husband. And I was like, okay, that'd be easy. And la, la. And I do like to cook, even though I'm not the best cook. Well, I've never really made eggs before because, well, I made them for an ex boyfriend, and he always would be like, oh, these are gross. These are too wet. Or these are too. He was not nice. So I haven't made eggs in, like, eight years, and that was the only time I'd ever make. Made them. So I was like, patrick, I'm gonna make you eggs. And this. We made an omelet, I think, yesterday, and he helped me. And then today I said, I'm gonna do it by myself. You go get ready. I'm doing by myself. I don't need your help. Well, eggs cook so fast. Like, I'm sure everybody's like, yeah, duh. But I thought I had, like, time.

Like, how much time?

Okay, not like 10 minutes. But I was like, okay, I have time to, like, put the ingredients. I was making a fancy omelette. Onions. I had peppers. I had spinach. I had bacon. Let's put all this stuff in cheese. I was like, oh, no, I gotta get the cheese. And by the time I flipped over, it was pretty burnt.

Yeah.

And Patrick ate it anyway. But what I could have done has been like, I'm so stupid. I'M an idiot. You shouldn't love me. Like, I probably wouldn't have been that dramatic, but I could have had a version of. God, I can't even make eggs. I'm so dumb. Like, why am I even trying? Or that guy was right. I do suck at this.

You mean your. Your ex boyfriend?

Yeah. But instead I'm like, patrick, I think I need your help one more time. So that's where it's in, like, shame. Toxic shame doesn't. This is my egg.

I also have, like, a question for you. Like, I get Patrick's getting ready. Right. So what about Google? Like, if you. Okay, I don't think I needed to Google it, but, like, Google, like, how to make an omelet Google.

Well, I just.

Or do you have.

I don't know. My first thought is. Oh, I guess my first thought is, like, I'm gonna ask somebody else to help me before I. If he's available.

Oh, okay. Well, I know, but he was. You were like, I got this. Go get ready. Oh, but you just. If you thought you had it.

If you couldn't. If he couldn't be there to help me, I would probably do, obviously. Yeah, but because he is there that. I'm like, can you help me learn this a couple more times before I'm out on my own with the omelet? And he was like, yeah, of course. So where I can lead into him get his gift of egg making? I don't know. But that's the difference of where guilt can actually lead us. Somewhere toxic shame cuts us. I would never make him another omelet.

Yeah. You know, you're not gonna give up.

I'm. I'll update you guys.

You're gonna be like, omelet queen. That's gonna be your new hobby.

I get my mind set on something.

Kat's gonna be like, come to my kitchen. You can make pottery. I'll do your nails, and I'll make you an omelette.

The one thing I won't do is an over easy egg where they're, like, gooey.

Oh, I love a runny egg. You know, I wonder how many people have, like, a egg story, because I feel like eggs, they're such a staple in people's lives that I wonder if you just take that one thing, like, egg, and what's a story in your life that comes to mind? Like, you have your boyfriend. That was awful. He was awful, by the way.

He was there.

I'm glad you're not with him. Awful, awful, awful. I have my boyfriend from College that I'm pretty sure he broke up with me because of the time I threw a fit over. Oh, yeah, he, I, I, I wanted egg whites. And he made me like. But this was not me. It was my eating disorder.

Yeah.

And, and my eating disorder. We'll call her Bridget. Perfect. Sounds like a good name. Bridget was a real bee. Bridget was high maintenance, and she wanted egg whites particular. And when Bridget got eggs scrambled with the yolk in it, what is she to do? Because the yolk has fat. And now I'm like, give me the yolk. Like, I want the yolk. Like, I want all the things.

I just can't stop thinking about how.

You say yolk, Yolk, yolk, yolk, yolk. But, but that would be a story that comes to mind for me. And then you had your egg thing, and now you have the omelette thing. And I wonder if, like, you just take that simple thing if you're like, here's an egg. Now, everybody share your traumatic story.

This is our group therapy exercise. And pass the egg and tell us what it brings up for you.

Yeah, Cinda. Yes. You're holding the egg. And then now it's like, oh, I'm a woman and I only, I'm only born with a certain amount of eggs. And then they slowly start dying off. I wonder. Like, I. Speaking of that basketball game I went to with with my boyfriend after the track meet on Friday, there was this little, teeny, tiny baby there. It was so cute. It was the most precious little baby. Like, we were trying to figure out. How do you think that baby is? I, I don't know. She may be fresh out of the hospital, but I was impressed that the mom and the dad being there to support their other child. Meanwhile, I was thinking, I barely even went to my son's track meet, and here they are with this new baby. And I was obsessed. And I looked at my boyfriend and I was like, does that make you want to have a baby? And he was like, no. And I was like, yeah, me neither. But it really did. It made me want to have a baby. I mean, not necessarily. I'm not saying with him or that I'm going to, but. But I do wonder sometimes. And then I quickly tell myself, you don't want a baby. Like, you don't want to change diapers. But that's a narrative I gave myself. Whenever Ben and I were switching adoption and then especially adopting older kids, we were like, we don't wanna. Which we really felt called to do that. Like, we felt like this is something we want to do. And we would joke like, well, at least now we don't have to change diapers. Now we've had to deal with other things that might make me wanna change the diapers, but, you know, that's just something I wonder if I do to quickly make myself think, I don't wanna have a baby. Like, you don't wanna deal with all that newborn stuff and no sleep and.

It helps you not.

Yeah, it helps me not feel. So I immediately did that little trick. I'm like, baby's divers vomit.

And, like, maybe you don't want to do that. And.

And I want that cute little tiny baby. Like, I do not know these people. And I wanted to be like, can I hold your baby? Which I would never say that, but I wanted to. It was so cute. I'm like, enter that baby into a contest, Gerber, because it was so cute. Okay. All right. Oh, Shannon has a note for us. Cooking a basic omelette typically takes three to six minutes, depending on your stovetop and desired level of doneness. You should flip it after the first minute.

Oh, definitely didn't do that. I didn't. Okay, well, now I know. I'll update you next week. I'll send you a picture of my omelette.

All right, well, we hope y'all are having. Having a day you need to have. We'll see you on Thursday for couch talks. We love hearing from y'all. Email us. Hey there at couch talks. Nope. Hey there at Feeling Things. It's hey there at feeling things podcast.com.

Also, I was going to say for the people that were getting emails about the newsletter, I will. If you email us, I will sign you up for the newsletter. And we're working on the Facebook group, so you can find the sign up there.

Yes. And there's a link tree in our Instagram at Feeling Things podcast where you can also sign up for the newsletter. But I know not everybody has Instagram. Instagram, but yeah, we're gonna be everywhere. We're on TikTok.

Why is that funny?

Just, like, I just felt very. I just felt old.

Like, run the Tiki Tucky.

Everywhere. You can access us the Tik Tok. We're on the Tik Tok. We're. We're on the YouTube.

We're on the YouTube.

We're on the Facebook, and we're on the newsletter. And we have a phone number. And we have an email. Oh, yeah, what's our phone number, Shannon? Nobody was calling it. And that was the thing. Like, I was like, we want people to feel comfortable calling. People are so comfortable emailing. Well, wouldn't it be fun to play a voicemail?

Yeah, it would.

I guess generation some and, and I wanted to play them back, but I also. We're gonna advance to the live calls. We're gonna do the live calls.

Well, if nobody's leaving a message, then.

I think people are more inclined to call than leave a message.

Well, I, I would feel the opposite. Just growing up in my generation is that if I don't have to make a phone call, I'm not making a phone call.

Okay, true.

So I think that's where how a lot of people operate. So we're not used to it.

Like, maybe they don't have their voice on the.

Well, to me, it's just.

We could do a voice changer.

Yeah, we could. That would be fun.

I think.

Yeah, I think that for the couch talks questions, if people who want to be anonymous are definitely not one.

And then in the subject line, should they put couch talks? Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We'll see y'all on Thursday for couch talks. Let me see if we have any other order of business here in your fancy. In my. The iPad.

On the iPad.

On the iPad. So YouTube? Check. Newsletter? Check. Instagram? Check. Email us? Check. Have the day you need to have. Check. I'm at Radio Amy and you are?

Cat Van Buren.

And we'll see you on Thursday. Bye.

Bye.

[Radi Dabluka]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California Psychics.

[Kat Van Buren]

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They ever actually clean the ball pit at these kids play gyms?

Or is my kid just swimming in.

A vat of bacteria catching whatever cootie of the day is breeding in there? I a cootie that'll probably take down our whole family.

Luckily, with Amazon One Medical 24. 7 Virtual Care, you can get checked.

[Matt]

Out for whatever ball pittitis you've contracted.

[Kat Van Buren]

Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.