Podcast Summary: The Bobby Bones Show – "AMY: The Single Biggest Predictor of Divorce"

Date: October 5, 2025
Hosts: Amy & Kat (Feeling Things segment)
Main Theme:
This episode of "The Bobby Bones Show," via the "Feeling Things with Amy and Kat" segment, dives deep into Dr. John Gottman’s research on relationships—focusing specifically on the Four Horsemen of divorce, with this installment spotlighting "contempt." Using real-life examples, clinical insights, and Gottman’s research, Amy and Kat explore why contempt is the most dangerous dynamic in couples and discuss practical antidotes for building healthier, more appreciative relationships.

Overview

Amy and Kat continue their mini-series about Dr. John Gottman's "Four Horsemen," which are four negative communication patterns that predict the decline of relationships. In this episode, they focus on contempt, described by Gottman as the single biggest predictor of divorce. They discuss what contempt looks like in relationships, why it’s so damaging, and how couples can address and prevent it.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Contempt & the Four Horsemen

• Series Context: This episode is part of an ongoing series on Dr. John Gottman’s Four Horsemen (Criticism, Defensiveness, Contempt, Stonewalling).
• Contempt Defined:
  • Feeling or showing that someone is beneath you; expressing scorn, disrespect, or mockery (19:07).
  • In relational terms: when respect disappears, and one partner repeatedly puts down the other.
• Why It's Critical:
  • According to research, contempt is the strongest predictor that a relationship will end (19:16).
  • It is even more corrosive than criticism—"If criticism is sticking the knife in somebody, contempt is twisting it" (19:16, Kat).

2. Gottman & the Science of Relationships

• Dr. Gottman is famous for his "Love Lab," where he observed and recorded couples’ interactions to identify negative patterns that predicted divorce (4:00).
• Gottman Institute’s resources are recommended for more information on these patterns (3:17).

3. What Contempt Looks and Sounds Like

• Communication Patterns:

  • Sarcasm and mocking used to hurt, not for humor or avoidance (20:32).
  • Intentionally making the partner feel small, pathetic, stupid, or unworthy.
  • Examples: "Why would you even think that?" or "Of course you did that" said with disdain (28:24-29:00).
  • Disrespectful mimicking, outright insults, comparisons to make the partner feel inferior (29:00).

• Impact:

  • Loss of emotional safety in the relationship; vulnerability and honesty are shut down (26:39).
  • Long-term contempt can even weaken the immune system, leading to more susceptibility to illness (10:09, 10:20, 10:25, 10:49).
  • "If you’re seeing contempt in the relationship, you're not too far gone because there is the antidote, but you're pretty far." (19:16, Kat).

4. Contempt vs. Narcissism and Personality Disorders

• Not all contemptuous partners are narcissists, but narcissistic traits often include contempt (6:08).
• Discussion of Nick Cannon’s public acknowledgment of narcissistic personality disorder and how genuine change is rare unless the person is deeply self-aware and willing to change (6:56–7:46).
• Narcissistic individuals may pretend to change for manipulative reasons (7:46).

5. Consequences for Victims

• Ongoing contempt leads partners to lose self-esteem, feel small, exhausted, and unable to defend themselves (22:11–22:22).
• Others may wonder why someone stays, but being subjected to contempt affects perception of self, making it hard to leave (23:12).
• Outside observers need to offer empathy, not judgment.

6. Contempt’s Relationship Dynamics

• Contempt can arise in both directions or develop over time due to unresolved resentment (6:08, 24:21).
• Charm and affection may still appear intermittently but can create confusion and reinforce unhealthy cycles (24:21, 24:25, 24:30).

Memorable Quotes & Standout Moments

• Kat on Contempt’s Severity:
  "If criticism is like sticking the knife in somebody, contempt is twisting it. It’s taking it a step farther." (19:16)
• Amy’s Reaction:
  “I'm just thinking of people that might be in this situation and how small you must feel…how exhausting. And then that circles back to the illness thing." (22:02)
• Kat on Safety:
  "Once you get there, the safety is lost. So without safety in a relationship, it's essentially poisoned." (26:39)
• On the Antidote:
  "The Gottmans are really…trying to help you remember why you really are in the relationship with this person." (36:59)
• Practicality Check:
  "We can’t change that…So what you do is you just try to balance it out by saying more positive things more often." (34:30)
• Amy's Real-Life Example of Appreciation:
  “My boyfriend…just kind of like massaged my shoulder and my neck a little bit while we were driving down the road. I’ve thought about that multiple times since then. And that was such a simple act. So easy. No money, free. Felt what I felt cared for." (39:51)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:13 – Amy & Kat introduce the Four Horsemen series and focus on contempt.
• 03:12-04:03 – Kat explains Gottman’s research and Love Lab.
• 06:08 – Discussion: Can contempt arise in both partners?
• 10:09-10:49 – Contempt and its effect on the immune system.
• 19:07-19:16 – Defining contempt; introducing its role in divorce.
• 20:32-22:02 – What contempt sounds like in a relationship.
• 24:21-24:30 – The cycle of contempt interspersed with moments of affection.
• 26:39-27:48 – The importance of emotional safety and what it looks like.
• 28:24-29:46 – Concrete examples of contemptuous phrases and behaviors.
• 30:21 – Introduction to the antidote: appreciation and respect.
• 33:49-34:30 – Five-to-one ratio explained: Five positive interactions to every one negative.
• 36:33-37:47 – Clarifying the use of the five-to-one ratio and its true purpose.
• 38:15-42:16 – Importance of "small things often" and sharing positives.

The Antidote to Contempt: Appreciation & Respect

• Five-to-One Ratio:
  “For every bad experience or negative encounter you have in your relationship, you need five positives to make up for it.” (33:49, Amy)
  • Because we’re wired to cling to negative comments, it takes an intentional effort to notice and vocalize the positive.
• Small Things Often:
  • Pay attention to and affirm the everyday acts of kindness and connection (38:15–41:32).
  • Example: Complimenting ordinary acts, expressing gratitude for daily gestures, noticing and expressing what you value.
• Practice:
  • Integrate rituals of appreciation into daily or weekly relationship routines.
  • With kids or partners, focus on affirmations and expressing care more often, even for small things (42:16–44:44).
  • Prompt: What small act made you feel cared for today?

Practical Takeaways

• If you notice contempt in your relationship:
  • Take it seriously; long-term contempt erodes emotional safety and well-being.
  • Seek ways to replace contemptuous communication with appreciation and respect.
• For concerned friends/family:
  • Offer support and empathy if you believe someone is in a contemptuous relationship, recognizing how difficult it is to leave.
• Rebuilding the Relationship:
  • Focus on remembering positive experiences and the root reasons for being together.
  • Practice gratitude and positive affirmation not just when things are bad, but as a regular part of daily life.

Next Week

The mini-series continues with the final Horseman: Stonewalling.

“We hope you have the day you need to have.” (45:23, Amy & Kat)

For further reading:
Visit The Gottman Institute’s website for more resources and articles on the Four Horsemen, contempt, and healthy relationship practices.