BOBBYCAST - Phil Rosenthal on Creating 'Everybody Loves Raymond' & Quitting the Show Twice + Betting Big on a Diner + Where His Love for Food Comes From + His Best David Letterman Story

Summary

Podcast Summary: The BobbyCast – Phil Rosenthal on Creating ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’, Quitting the Show Twice, Betting Big on a Diner, Love for Food & His Best David Letterman Story

Date: November 23, 2025
Host: Bobby Bones (Premiere Networks)
Guest: Phil Rosenthal
Episode: 556

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Bobby Bones sits down with Phil Rosenthal—creator of Everybody Loves Raymond, star of Somebody Feed Phil, and celebrated food enthusiast. The conversation covers Phil’s path from struggling New York actor to sitcom visionary, his passionate (and risky) defense of creative integrity, his new venture opening a diner, how food has shaped his worldview, and his favorite stories involving David Letterman and the cast of ‘Raymond’. Woven throughout are Phil’s heartfelt reflections on family, community, and the magic of sharing what you love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Phil’s Early Career & TV Influences

• Growing up with TV: Phil shares how, as a short and skinny kid, TV (“my friend that didn’t hit me”) became his window to the world and a blueprint for comedy. He emulated classic TV greats like Jackie Gleason and Art Carney, drawing deep inspiration from The Honeymooners, Dick Van Dyke Show, All in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore, Taxi, The Odd Couple, Roseanne, Cosby Show, and The Office.

  • “I watched a lot of TV because I was short and skinny and if I went outside, I would get hit. And so TV was my friend. That didn’t hit me and I loved it.” – Phil (05:16)

• From performer to writer: Though he loved performing in high school/college, Phil struggled to break into acting in NYC and faced relentless rejection.

  • “No one had called New York to tell them what a big star I was in high school.” – Phil (07:10)

• Turning point: Out of necessity, he and friends wrote their own shows, which led to writing a script for HBO and moving into sitcom writing, discovering that sometimes the “world tells you what you’re supposed to be.”

  • “This fantasy of being discovered is a fantasy. You have to do it yourself.” – Phil (08:12)

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Creating ‘Everybody Loves Raymond’ and Standing Up for His Vision

• Meeting Ray Romano: Phil describes receiving a Letterman-scouted VHS tape of Ray Romano and seeing sitcom potential not just in Ray’s comedy, but his actual life (twin boys, overbearing parents, jealous brother).

  • “He finished telling me this, and I said, well, I don’t think there’s anything there we can use.” [Joking] – Phil (14:37)
  • Ray was skeptical at first, wanting a Seinfeld-esque show, but Phil convinced him the real value lay in family stories.

• Commitment to Realism: Their creative “filter” was a commitment to relatability and truth—no “phoney TV situations”, everything had to feel authentic.

  • “It shouldn’t sound like writing. It should sound like a guy talking or your mom talking.” – Phil (18:44)

Quitting the Show—Twice (Major Turning Point, [19:07]–[25:25])

• Phil recounts two near walkouts before Raymond ever went on air:

  1. Casting Debra: Network insisted on their choice for Debra, but Phil threatened to quit rather than cast someone he felt was wrong.

     • “I was going to quit that day. I even met with this actress…she was 10 times worse than I thought she would be. And I knew I was quitting that day.” — Phil (21:17)
     • His calm conviction impressed the network, who relented; Patricia Heaton was cast and “nailed the part.”

  2. Showrunner Battle: After the pilot, the studio doubted Phil’s lack of showrunning experience and wanted to install a seasoned co-runner. Phil stood firm:

     • “I quit, because I’m not going to work for someone else on my own show…It would be a nightmare to me to have this thing I care about compromised.” – Phil (23:50)
     • He spent three days believing the show would proceed without him—until the network relented and made him sole showrunner, seeing his integrity.

• Best Advice Received:

  • “Do the show you want to do, because in the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway.” – from Ed Weinberger, legendary producer (20:16)

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Everybody Loves Raymond Memories

• Favorite Episodes ([27:20]): Phil loves the season-ending flashback episodes, which introduced a “fantasy” element while remaining grounded in the show’s reality—especially the one showing how Ray & Debra met.

  • “You laughed and cried at the same time…it was so beautiful to me.” – Phil (27:48)

• Family Inspiration: Much of the show, especially the Barone parents, was inspired by Phil’s own parents—supportive, loving, but also “crazy enough to be a complete source of comic material.”

  • “My mom was really a great inspiration.” – Phil (31:10)
  • He shared touching stories of being able to reward his parents in later life, including buying his opera-loving mom an apartment across from the Metropolitan Opera.

• Behind-the-Scenes: The early years were tough—finding tone, handling studio interference, and even fending off an executive trying to oust Phil as showrunner.

  • Ray’s loyalty kept the team together.

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Food, Travel, and Opening a Diner

• Investing in Restaurants: Phil jokes about being “not very bright” for owning parts of 25–30 restaurants, explaining he does it for love, not money—chefs are artists, and food is community art ([35:05]).

  • “The best things that come to us are never because we needed the money.” – Phil (35:27)

• New Diner Project: Inspired by a transcendent meal at a Maine diner (as filmed in Somebody Feed Phil), Phil is opening his own diner in L.A. with chef Nancy Silverton, aiming to create “the best diner in the world” by elevating classic comfort food.

  • “We want to keep our neighborhood…The diners are disappearing from America. I don’t know what your diner scene is like here in Nashville…” – Phil (39:24)
  • He and Bobby connect over the nostalgia and emotional resonance of diners, which are “centers of the community” ([41:47]).

• Origins of Food Passion: Despite his current gourmet stature, Phil grew up on overcooked steak and utilitarian meals. Only as a young adult in NYC (and on a courier trip to Europe) did he discover flavorful, joyful eating, leading to a life of culinary exploration.

  • “A steak was punishment…the driest, cheapest cut of meat that they could afford.” – Phil (46:12)
  • “It’s the most mind-expanding thing we can do in life is travel.” – Phil (49:00)

• Advice and Perspective: Despite becoming a world food aficionado, Phil resists the label of “snob,” preferring “enthusiast.”

  • “I don’t think I’m a snob. I’m a lover of food. An enthusiast.” – Phil (42:16)

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Television, Travel Shows, and Stagecraft

• Live Shows: Phil relishes doing live performances, combining his storytelling and stage skills ([57:07]).
• TV Production: He shares production insights from Somebody Feed Phil, favoring small, agile crews for intimacy.
• Travel as Inspiration: Travel changed his life, and he’s honored to inspire others through his shows and cookbooks.

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Exporting ‘Raymond’, International Comedy, and Letterman Stories

• Exporting Raymond: Bobby and Phil reminisce about Exporting Raymond (the documentary about adapting ‘Raymond’ for Russian TV) and the cultural differences in comedic sensibilities.

• Italy Episode: The arc where Ray Romano’s character reluctantly visits Italy—and is transformed—was inspired by Phil’s own efforts to get Ray to travel. This experience directly inspired Somebody Feed Phil.

  • “We should do an episode where we send you to Italy as you and you come back as me.” – Phil (53:15)
  • “There’s no greater high than turning people onto stuff you like. I’m guessing that’s why you do what you do.” – Phil (54:11)

• David Letterman Story ([62:14]):

  • Phil tells a hilarious and revealing story of interviewing with David Letterman to become Raymond’s showrunner: walking into Letterman’s office, being told to sit at the desk like it was his own, heavy metal blaring from a stereo, the desk facing the wrong way, and Dave’s signature, nearly silent deadpan. The advice from Letterman?
    • “Just don’t embarrass us.” – Letterman ([62:34])
  • Though Letterman’s company produced Raymond, the legend was “not involved”—but still showed graciousness and support, even personally calling Phil in his final week of “retirement” from TV.

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Reflections on Ending the Show

• Phil believed in ending Raymond before it went stale, prioritizing the integrity of the creative work over continued paychecks or comfort.
  • “You want to get off the stage before somebody says, ‘Hey, you should get off the stage.’ …If you respect your audience, your good time and your cash payout shouldn’t be the reason you stay.” – Phil (66:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Creative Integrity:

• “Do the show you want to do, because in the end, they’re going to cancel you anyway.” – Ed Weinberger, recounted by Phil (20:16)

On Courage:

• “It took all the courage I could muster to say this, because I love this show… It was my family. I had no choice. I felt like I had no choice. You’re pushed to the edge of the cliff. I have to jump.” – Phil (23:50)

On Family and Gratitude:

• “I owe them everything. Not only were they incredibly supportive and loving…and quote, unquote, normal—but they were crazy enough to be a complete source of comic material my whole career.” – Phil (31:10)

On Diners and Community:

• “You’re creating community. Diners are centers of the community. And if that disappears, maybe we lose our community. And then maybe we lose our town and maybe we lose our country.” – Phil (41:47)

On the Magic of Food:

• “It’s the most mind-expanding thing we can do in life is travel.” – Phil (49:00)
• “There’s no greater high than turning people onto stuff you like.” – Phil (54:11)
• “My tombstone will say, ‘He tasted everything. You should try it.’” – Phil (54:22)

On Meeting Letterman:

• “Just don’t embarrass us.” – David Letterman (62:34)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:11 – Inspiration for Raymond’s Italy episode
• 05:16–06:53 – Phil’s TV influences & early comedy
• 07:10–08:12 – Rejection and writing own material
• 14:37–15:34 – Seeing Ray Romano’s sitcom potential
• 19:07–25:25 – Quitting ‘Raymond’ twice to save creative vision
• 27:20–28:18 – Favorite Raymond episodes
• 31:10–31:32 – Parental inspiration for sitcom
• 35:05–41:47 – Investment in restaurants, plans for new diner
• 46:02–49:00 – Discovering love for food
• 53:15–54:11 – How Raymond’s Italy episode inspired Somebody Feed Phil
• 62:14–66:34 – David Letterman office story and mentorship
• 66:38–67:32 – Why and how he decided Raymond should end

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Tone & Language

The conversation is a blend of heartfelt nostalgia, comic timing, and sincere mentorship (with both guests sharing personal stories and professional insights). Phil is self-deprecating, outspoken on artistic integrity, and full of warmth—whether talking about his parents, diners, or the joys of travel and television. Bobby Bones sets a relaxed, fan-spirited tone, inviting Phil to reminisce and philosophize.

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Final Thoughts

Phil Rosenthal’s journey is as much about risk, conviction, and gratitude as it is about comedy or food. His legacy—across sitcoms, food TV, and now his own diner—is one of connecting people through authenticity, laughter, and shared delight in everyday pleasures. For fans of TV history, stand-up, travel, and food, this conversation is a feast—full of lessons, laughter, and love.

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Cookbook Note:
Phil’s second cookbook, Phil’s Favorites, is out now, featuring favorite recipes from his travels, friends, and family, and reflecting his ever-curious, ever-expanding love of food and sharing.

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“My tombstone will say, ‘He tasted everything. You should try it.’” – Phil Rosenthal (54:22)

Transcript

[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Phil Rosenthal]

Right then and there I go, oh, we should do an episode. He goes, what do you mean? We should do an episode where we send you to Italy as you and you come back as me. I saw it happen to my friend Ray. He comes running up to me. Phil, have you had gelato?

[Bobby Bones]

Welcome to episode 556 with Phil Rosenthal, the creator of Everybody Loves Raymond, also the star of Somebody Feed Phil and then, dude, I love the show. When they tried to take Raymond over to Russia on Netflix, would you watch that exporting Raymond? Yes. It was so good. And how a lot of the humor just didn't translate. Like Russian humor was so different and like on the nose, almost corny. And when they would try, like the humor of America, audience wouldn't get it. Yeah. But they'd be like, oh, you have big nose. Great show.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So this was super cool.

[Bobby Bones]

And the fact that he still likes talking about Everybody Loves Raymond passionately.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Because you never know some people when they do something from a long time ago and they get super successful from it and then they start on other projects. They don't always like to go back because they're like, well, that's not all I'm about. But that wasn't the case here. Like, he gave us so many great stories. I got to say, I loved him. I really enjoyed him. And yeah, really one of my favorite guests that we've had in a long time. His second cookbook, Phil's Favorites, is out now. They're opening up a diner soon. And the cast of Everybody Loves Raymond with will reunite for a 30th anniversary special on November 24, 7pm Central on CBS. So here he is, one of our favorite guests in a long time. And I would recommend too, to go check out the video that it's just different. Like, he was just so charismatic. So you can watch this as well on our YouTube @Bobby Bones channel. All right, here he is, Phil Rosenthal. Phil, let me start by saying I'm a big fan of you in multiple avenues. So this is exciting for me because, you know, in Nashville, like, I know everybody, so I don't really get to be a fan. I don't know you. This is cool.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, I don't know you either, but I'm A fan of yours already.

[Bobby Bones]

What shows matter to you as a kid?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, goodness. I watched a lot of TV because I was short and skinny and if I went outside, I would get hit. And so TV was my friend. That didn't hit me and I loved it. And I could be with my quote unquote friends on tv. So. You know, I watch Honeymooners reruns, man.

[Bobby Bones]

Me too. I think I've seen every Honeymooners rerun. It would come on 11 o'.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Clock.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Hysterical, right? Jackie Gleason and Art Carney. Yep. Yeah, that's who I was emulating at home. I found that I could stay up late with my parents and their friends if I could imitate the people I saw on tv. So I would imitate Art Carney and they thought it was hysterical. Like a four year old is imitating the same. And I just. That got in deep for me. I'm like, oh, I wanted. I didn't know there was writing, directing and producing. I just thought, that guy's funny. I'll be like him. And my dad was funny too. I wanted to be like him. And the Honeymooners, we can jump to Dick Van Dyke show, all in the Family, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Taxi, the Odd Couple. Do you remember that?

[Bobby Bones]

I do, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So good. And then later, like Roseanne, the Cosby show of the 80s. Can't say Cosby, but there's great stuff out there. The Office is, you know, more recent. Just great stuff. And most of it was filmed before a live studio audience, which I also loved because you could. You felt like you were. It was an evening in the theater and I carried that over to Raymond. So all those things had a great influence on me.

[Bobby Bones]

You wanted. And you were in front of the camera or on stage at first, in.

[Phil Rosenthal]

High school and college. Yeah, Because I didn't know about writing and directing.

[Bobby Bones]

So did you fall in love with it?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

More so than the actual performance part of it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I was struggling in New York, you know, I was such a big star in high school and college in the plays. And then I moved into New York City to pursue it and no one had called New York to tell them what a big star I was in high school. And so I don't have to tell you, if you graduate with a theater degree, the whole world is open to you. It was open to me to sell farm and implement cleaner on the phone. Cold calling, cold calling this part of the world. And most of the time people would tell me to go enjoy myself. But not in those words, the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. So just Terrible job after job. And then after about 7, 8 years of not getting anywhere.

[Bobby Bones]

Were you auditioning a lot?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I couldn't even get an agent. I didn't know how. There's no, like, rule book for how to do this stuff. And of course, it's who you know and who. I didn't know anybody, and I was the rejection every day. I wasn't used to it. I didn't have the stomach for it. But then some friends of mine and I wrote a show for ourselves to be in. And I can't stress enough to everybody watching or listening the importance of writing your own ticket in no matter what field, because they're not waiting for you. Nobody's waiting for you. This fantasy of being discovered is a fantasy. You have to do it yourself. You want to make a podcast, make a podcast. By the way, we're born now with a studio in our pockets. You want to make a video, make a video. You're not going to go viral immediately, but you keep doing it. You get better and better and better. We've never had the greater tools for success. We didn't have any of that. And so we wrote a show for ourselves to be in. And wouldn't you know it, that took off. And at the same time, another friend of mine who had been a writer showed up at my apartment with a word processor and said, we're going to this 1987 or 8. We're going to write a screenplay. I said, I don't know anything about it. He goes, I know the structure. You're funny. Let's write a screenplay together. And we did, and we sold it to HBO right away. Wow. Sometimes the world tells you what you're supposed to be, but you don't know until you try it. So, yes, literally wrote my own ticket.

[Bobby Bones]

What was the show? The HBO show you sold.

[Phil Rosenthal]

The HBO movie was never made because we wrote it with Alan Arkin in mind. He was our favorite actor. It was a suburban detective story called Shulman, and HBO bought it right away. And when they asked us, who do you see as Shulman? We said, alan Arkin. And they said, he doesn't open a movie. And it was dead right there. Never. Never got made. But listen, that's the story of, I think, 90% of all scripts.

[Bobby Bones]

Did that give you the confidence, though?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. And so I moved to Hollywood to pursue sitcom writing.

[Bobby Bones]

Wait, so you just moved?

[Phil Rosenthal]

So you had a little nibble?

[Bobby Bones]

A successful nibble.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Exactly.

[Bobby Bones]

So you're like, let's hit it while it's hot.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, I had A little push, because someone saw me in this play that we wrote for ourselves. An agent. First agent to take an interest in me. He said, if you move to Hollywood, you will never stop working as an actor. And I packed a bag and moved to Hollywood. And I never started working as an actor because, believe it or not, there are people who make up crap in Hollywood. They just say, whatever. I don't know why he did this or some power trip or whatever. He had no intention of, like, working for me or doing anything. He just said was crazy. But why go out of your way to build up a kid's, you know, hopes and then not follow through? But listen, that's. I don't have to tell you there's a lot of bullshit out there. You.

[Bobby Bones]

Your sitcom writing now.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

You moved to Hollywood. Is that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I got a partner. We. We wrote a sample script. People liked it. We were hired immediately. It was just. The world is telling me what I'm supposed to do. I had a natural affinity for this because I had, you know, Malcolm Gladwell, 10,000 hours of something before you're an expert. I. I had 30,000 hours of TV watch.

[Bobby Bones]

But is that weird to have seven, eight years of no and only no. And then all of a sudden, yes. It's like, hey, we, like, let's celebrate you. That's crazy. I wouldn't trust it. I feel like it's like Candid Cameras.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I thought it would go away at any moment, but again, it's you. You get a job writing on sitcoms. You are at the lowest level when you start. In fact, I had a partner, so we're literally splitting a salary, but you're in.

[Bobby Bones]

So are you excited?

[Phil Rosenthal]

But it's still more money than I ever saw in my life. And I'm in the business that I've always dreamed of being in. And it didn't matter that I wasn't performing, because the world is saying, maybe you should write Schmucko. So I do it.

[Bobby Bones]

What sitcoms did you get on at.

[Phil Rosenthal]

First, you won't believe it. I get to Hollywood in 1989 just as they're about to make a sitcom for Robert Mitchum. You know who Robert Mitchum is?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I don't think of him as a sitcom guy.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You shouldn't. The audience didn't think of him as a sitcom guy either, and it was gone after seven episodes. But I learned a lot about how to make a sitcom. You can learn that on any job. And certainly this was crazy. The reason they did a sitcom for Robert Mitchum Is because they remember TV movies. So they made a TV movie with him, and it did so well that they couldn't leave it alone.

[Bobby Bones]

They just wanted to put him back on tv.

[Phil Rosenthal]

They wanted a sitcom out of that premise, which was he was a homeless guy who pretended to be some recently orphaned kid's grandpa.

[Bobby Bones]

Sounds hilarious.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You know what? There is a funny way to do that. If the old guy hates little kids and dogs, but now has to be grandpa. But as soon as we went on the air, they neutered him by making him wear an apron around the house and arrange the flowers in the first moments of the show because they wanted him to be likable, which is the worst word in television.

[Bobby Bones]

So that doesn't pan out. Except it does, because now I get another.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Now?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, you just had a job.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And now I go from job to job. I did that for five years. And then I got a video cassette of a comedian who had been on Letterman once for five minutes, and Letterman said there should be a sitcom for that guy. Letterman had a production deal at CBS so he could develop shows for comedians.

[Bobby Bones]

Is that Worldwide pants?

[Phil Rosenthal]

It is, yeah. And I meet Ray, and we hit it off.

[Bobby Bones]

Wait, so how did you get a video? Like, I feel like there's a lot of world right there that you just went yada, yada, yada to.

[Phil Rosenthal]

No, no. That the way it works in Hollywood. It really is that simple. They're sending out, you know, once. Once there's a comedian. That's all they do is try to get a sitcom at this time anyway. So their people are always sending their material to writers to create a show for the set, for the. Because look at all the comedians who Seinfeld, you know, found Larry David, Roseanne found her people. Cosby had writer, every comedian, Rob Williams, you know, sitcom for him. Comedians are looking for sitcoms. That's the big payoff, right?

[Bobby Bones]

So you got the tape?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I get the tape. I remember I saw that performance when it was on, because I watched Letterman every night. I said, sure, I'll take that meeting. He must have met with a dozen guys. His first choice wasn't available. He wanted someone from Friends because that was the hip new show, and I was the opposite of that. And yet I saw potential in his actual life. He really had twin boys, an older daughter. He really lived close by to his parents, who always butted into his life. His older brother really was a police sergeant who was divorced and was jealous of him. And my joke is, he finished telling me this, and I said, well, I don't think there's anything there we can use. But no, I saw. Listen, he's not an actor. Why not surround him with the stuff that's familiar to him? And what I didn't know about the characters and stories and personalities of his family, I filled in with mine.

[Bobby Bones]

Was he receptive to you making it? And I don't want to say not cool, but he was receptive. Nobody thinks that their family's cool is my point.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Absolutely. In fact, his first suggestion when I said, let's do this, your family. By the way, his material was coming from his family and being a new dad. But he didn't see the value in it right away. He said, can't we just do a show where I sit like in a diner with my friends and we crack jokes? And I said, first of all, there is that show. It's called Seinfeld. Second of all, I'm the wrong guy for that because I need a story. All the shows that I emulated, I found the strength in story, beginning, middle, end, and family because I had a young family, too, and I had my parents. Even though they lived through 3,000 miles away, they were as intrusive as could be. That's a, you know, the living. The parents. Living across the street is the great metaphor for everybody's parents around the world. We just filmed our 30th anniversary reunion special of the show that's going to be on November 24th on CBS. And it was one of the most beautiful, touching moments of my life to get together with these people. They recreated the entire kitchen and living room set of Everybody Loves Raymond. You'd think that they never touched it, that it's been sitting there for 30 years. It was just beautiful and really funny to share the clips and even outtakes and stuff. So I hope people watch that. It was really fun to do. And Ray became. He went from being skeptical of my sensibility to. To embracing it. And I learned a lot from him because his number one thing in his act and in his just philosophy was to always be as real and true as possible. I was a little more what we would call sitcommy than he was. But we met in the middle. So in other words, there would be things that you do to be funny in a sitcom because you're nowhere without the jokes, right? They're the bread and butter of a sitcom. Gotta be funny. That's job one. But even more important than that is the relatability. And that includes not doing anything that would not happen in real life. And we can. We know the Shows that break that rule all the time. And subconsciously, not even consciously, the audience watches a show, and something in your brain goes, that would never happen. And you kind of disconnect from your loyalty to that show. But if you believe that everything could happen, not saying it's not slightly exaggerated, but if you believe that it could happen, then you. And that includes dramatic moments, too, because life is not all. Ha ha, ha. It bonds you to the characters and makes it relatable, and it becomes your favorite show.

[Bobby Bones]

So that was a filter you guys had to constantly adjust.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Just kept in mind. And when we're writing it, when we hit that bump, I don't buy that. I don't think, by the way, it can be as simple as, yeah, people don't really talk that way. That's. I hear the writer, I hear the writing in that line. It shouldn't sound like writing. It should sound like a guy talking or your mom talking.

[Bobby Bones]

You mentioned that you quit twice before it even took off.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I did. First time was as we're casting, I'm told the head of the network wants to cast this actress as the wife as Deborah. Yeah. And I said, oh, I know who that is. I think she's completely wrong for that part. I just don't see it. And the guy, the executive said, you didn't hear me? I said, the head of the network wants. And if you don't take her, you don't have a show. So it's a longer story. But I was gonna quit.

[Bobby Bones]

You were that committed to it being.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Right has to be right. I'd done enough sitcoms to know, oh, there's a million ways to screw this up. There's only one way to get it right. It has to feel right. And I'm writing about my family, so it's very important that it's right. This is my one shot to write about my family. I'm getting. I'm getting, you know, this golden opportunity. The best advice I ever got about anything was as I'm writing the pilot to Raymond, I ask a great old showrunner, someone who created the Mary Tyler Moore show and the Cosby show of the 80s and other shows, too, named Ed Weinberger. I say to him, any advice? He goes, yeah, do the show you want to do, because in the end, they're going to cancel you anyway. Wow, that's great advice that really. Because I can't tell you how many times I've seen writers take all the notes from the network. They don't, by the way, know anything. They're Business people, they take all the notes. Why? Because they just think if they take all the notes, they'll get on the air and then they can do what they want. That never happens because usually you know what does happen? Your show doesn't get on the air. Why? Because you made it bad. Why? Because you took all their notes. So do the show you want to do. Because. Yes, they're probably going to cancel you anyway.

[Bobby Bones]

Because most shows don't succeed whenever that becomes a problem. And they want to put someone in that Debra role that you didn't want.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Did you already have your Deborah?

[Phil Rosenthal]

No.

[Bobby Bones]

So you just knew it wasn't right? It wasn't. You're fighting for somebody specifically.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I had three. You go. You go with three candidates. You go to the network and you present them. They literally auditioned three. Three other actresses audition, and this is for every part. And then the studio and the network, since they're paying for it, they have some say. But I was going to quit. I was going to quit that day. I even met with this actress. I got her to read for me. She was 10 times worse than I thought she would be. And I knew I was quitting that day. But I spoke to the president of the network and I told him that I love this actress and that I met her and she's lovely and I wanted to marry her myself. But then she read for me and I have to be honest, it's just not what I wrote. I think she could do it, but I also think that we could do better. And the president of the network said, oh, it was just an idea, but I was really going to quit that day. I gave it my best shot, but I was quitting. Now flash forward to. We filmed the pilot. We. Oh, Patty Heaton comes in two weeks later to our office. She nails the part. She's perfect. Bring her to network. Done. That.

[Bobby Bones]

That easy.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That quick. Because she was right. Now, we filmed the pilot, goes well. Well enough that we get picked up. They're gonna put it on tv. It's gonna be a series. Now my agent calls me. Congratulations. They just want to know who's gonna run the show. I said, I assume me. They said, you, you never ran a show before. I said, yeah, but they like the pilot. Right. Enough to pick it up to series. I'll do more like that. You don't understand. This is a million dollar, multi. Million dollar operation. Now. They're not gonna entrust you to it. I said, oh, well, then I quit because I'm not gonna work for someone else on My own show, because I know what happens. This becomes this person's show, and they run it the way they want to, and it won't be right. And I've seen this before. So quit. Tell me. You're always quitting. Don't get excited. He says, let me talk to him. Okay, good news. He comes back. They're going to bring in someone who's had experience running shows to run it with you. I said, oh, if you put it that way, I quit because it's still going to be that person's show. And he goes, don't fool around. They're serious. They're doing the show, and you can either be part of it or not. I said, I quit, and I'm not.

[Bobby Bones]

Were you serious? You weren't pushing? You weren't bluffing?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I am not.

[Bobby Bones]

You really didn't want to do it as they were wanting it to be done.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It took all the courage I could muster to say this, because I love this show. I loved what we built, even just for that pilot. And it was my family. I had no choice. I felt like I had no choice. You're pushed to the edge of the cliff. I have to jump. I have to. I cannot live with it this way. It would be a nightmare to me to have this thing I care about compromised. Compromised too much. And I quit. And I spent three days living in the world where they're doing my show without me.

[Bobby Bones]

How'd that feel?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Terrible. Depressing. The third day, my agent calls. Guess what? They're going to let you run the show yourself. I said, really? Wow. Why? The head of the network, like, how you handle the thing with that actress. So that first time I was going to quit, he saw my conviction, and he saw that I was not an asshole about it, that I was deferential to him. And, you know, I didn't say, fuck you. I'm doing whatever I want. I'm still a person. And they saw something. I guess it's called integrity. You know, again, it doesn't work if you're bluffing. They might call your bluff. And then you didn't really want to quit, but you did. You played it as a card game. That's stupid. I quit because I had no other choice to make.

[Bobby Bones]

In revisionist history, it is. That show launched and it was a massive success. And you were nominated and won tons of awards at the end. The first season. First couple of seasons. Was there ever Rocky Waters?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Absolutely. I wrote a whole book about the journey. It's called you'd're lucky you're funny how life becomes a sitcom. And. And it was my way of paying this forward where you can take stuff where we think our lives aren't worth talking about, even let alone writing a sitcom about them. But it's how to take your life and what you consider a mundane existence and turn it into something very useful, like a sitcom. Right. The first season, not only was it really hard to find. Figure out what the show was, the tone of the show, the stories for that first season, really, that's really the hard work. Because you're building the foundation of a house, and who knows what the house is supposed to be? You have to have a good vision of what that house is gonna look like when it's done. Not only did we have all those pressures, but we actually had a saboteur, a studio executive from one of the studios. We were produced by two studios, Letterman's and hbo for cbs. So a lot of cooks in the kitchen. One guy was telling Ray Romano behind my back that I should be fired because he wanted to run a show, especially a show that was already running, just. He wanted to just walk in and take over.

[Bobby Bones]

How did you know that was happening?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Ray told me. And thank God Ray was the way he was a good, decent human being. Because even if he didn't trust me immediately, I didn't trust me immediately either. But he understood that we were on the right track, and he stuck with me.

[Bobby Bones]

Has your favorite episode changed the longer that the show has been off the air?

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's a great question. There are favorites. We talk about them in the special. Actually, one of my favorites is for a sentimental reason, we do a flashback episode at the end of each season. It was our way of doing a fantasy show without the baloney of doing a fantasy show where anything goes. We did a flashback, which gives you the kind of fantasy element with. While staying real.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So my favorite one of these was how Ray and Deborah met. And that's a hard show to do because you. You're seeing the inciting incident of the whole world of the show. And the actors, they were just so fantastic, so funny and touching. You laughed and cried at the same time. It was so beautiful to me.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, the hairstyles were so funny in those episodes of When They're Back.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And Robert has a mustache.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And like, he shows up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So that's fun to do. And could that happen? Of course. But you're having the fantasy fun without doing a phony fantasy.

[Bobby Bones]

Did your parents ever get to see your success?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, yeah. They they only died, like, five years ago. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Were they super proud of you, or did they understand what was happening? Because my mom didn't get to see much of mine.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I don't think she would have. She didn't get it because she's from a very. You know, we grew up in a trailer park. So when I'm in California or I'm Nashville doing, like. She was proud because she could see me on television.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I think that was cool to her, but I don't think she really got it, because I didn't get it until I got in it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I get it. My parents were German immigrants. They had old world values. When I told you I sold that screenplay that first time in 1988, I called my parents. My father thought, oh, my God, this is the American dream. Because we got paid. I had $300 in the bank. We got paid $70,000, a fortune. I was suddenly a thousandaire. And I tell my dad, and he's, like, dancing around. And my mother gets on the phone, why is your dad so happy? Because we sold the screenplay. That's wonderful. She says, what do you get for something like that? I said, $70,000. And the phone went silent. I said, ma, she. She goes, do you know we've worked our whole lives to have that in the bank? So, yes, she's proud, but what are the values of this country? You write some jokes on paper when people really work for a living and that you are rewarded like that. And we worked our whole lives hard work. So it was a little bit of like, you little shit.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. When I first made any money, I bought my mom a couple acres and a trailer.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh.

[Bobby Bones]

And. And teeth, because I never had good teeth.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So these are all.

[Bobby Bones]

These are fake teeth. And so. But I remember, like, that's the most meaningful thing I feel like I've ever bought.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Was when I had money to buy my mom a new trailer. Right. Were you able to do that with your parents?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I was able to buy them a car. I was able to. Towards the end of their life, my mom loved the opera, so I bought them an apartment across the street from the Metropolitan Opera House in Manhattan. Wow. And her last, like, seven years were in heaven. I called it pre heaven because she could volunteer at the opera across the street and go to every rehearsal with her idols. That was everything.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, that makes me emotional, hearing that, like, to put her in a place that made her happy, fulfilled.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I owe them everything. Not only were they incredibly supportive and loving and quote, unquote normal, but they were crazy enough to be a complete source of comic material my whole career. Those parents on Everybody Loves Raymond that comes from somewhere.

[Bobby Bones]

So a lot of that stuff the Frank Barone.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well I would say that the character of Frank Barone was a little more like Ray's dad than mine, but a lot of the one liners and things my dad was totally capable of and some of the storylines even. But my mom was really a great inspiration. Lets take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

Sure thing.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[TJ Maxx Advertiser]

I turned off news altogether.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's dropped trying to divide people.

[Bobby Bones]

If we got clear facts, maybe we.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Could calm down a little.

[NBC News Announcer]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And we're back on the Bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

We invested in a restaurant.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, so you're not very bright like me.

[Bobby Bones]

I know, I know. We are getting some residual checks, but it is nowhere near where maybe I hoped it would be. And people had said to me, don't jump into a restaurant because they often don't make money.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

So why are you doing your. Like me? I just jumped in as a team, as a part of one. But you're opening your own diner.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You shouldn't do it for money. Well, that's a good philosophy of life, right? The best things that come to us are never because we needed the money. I quit Everybody Loves Raymond twice before it went on the air. Because I cared about it. I loved the business so much. I love every part of show business except the business. But I loved doing plays and just being. Trying to be funny my whole life. High school. I don't know if you were. Were you ever in the school plays?

[Bobby Bones]

I was. I was Danny Zuko in Grease.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Time of your life, right? You had the most fun that moment where you see your name on the list, that you made it, that you were cast. We chased that feeling the rest of our life because nothing felt as validating or as good or proud of yourself and just the feeling that you belonged. It's a long winded way of saying, I invest in restaurants. I mean, I've been doing it for like 20 years.

[Bobby Bones]

So you've invested in multiple restaurants?

[Phil Rosenthal]

At least 25, 30 restaurants. Wow. Because I'm really not very bright, but my wife and I, we support the arts. So just like I'm talking about the high school play, we support arts education in school. It's the greatest thing in our lives that we have that background that made us who we are today. And so restaurants, to me, chefs are artists too. It's my favorite because we get to eat it. The work.

[Bobby Bones]

This restaurant is under you like? This is yours?

[Phil Rosenthal]

This is the first one I'm building from the ground up. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Why just now are you doing your own?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I wanted it for years because I saw. I went to. In the. Somebody feed Phil. We filmed in Maine, and I went to a little diner in Biddeford, Maine. I don't know if you saw that episode, but it's a. It's a. An old railroad dining car that was bought by the engineer after it went out of commission. He put it on a vacant lot, left the menu exactly as is because he loved the dining car in the train. So it's 15 seats at a counter. That's all it is now. The old man dies, and it sits empty for a while. Two chefs from the Gramercy Tavern, one of the best restaurants in New York City, they come up, they take over this thing. They leave the menu exactly the same, but they elevate it by using the best possible ingredients. The best eggs they could find, the best bread they could make, the best condiments, homemade everything. Just elevating the diner experience. What if you had the best waffle you ever had? So there it is. And I eat there. And I swear, it stayed with me that whole season. And I went around the world.

[Bobby Bones]

Right, like you kept thinking about that one experience.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes, because it was like that ratatouille moment where the critic eats the ratatouille at the end. And what happens? He zooms back to childhood, and it's his mom making him that same dish. So we know diner food. By the way, the guy goes. I go, this is incredible. This is such an achievement, what you've done here. Cause every single thing I had at the diner that day was the best of that thing I ever had. He goes, well, it's a pretty low bar, meaning diner food. What's the big. No, no, no, no. It's the highest bar. Why? Because we all know this food. Every one of us is a diner expert because it's with us our whole lives that. That. That thing about seeing your name on the list, that you made it into the school play. It's actually the same that. That. Transportation back to childhood. That's what happens when you eat an amazing burger in a diner or a milkshake. Right.

[Bobby Bones]

So what kind of standards are you gonna put. This is your own diner, but you've been everywhere.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

You've even been to what you say, the greatest diner that you've ever experienced. Like, what kind of standards are you holding to your own diner?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Now we wanna make the best diner in the world. It's really that simple. That is the goal. I don't know if we can achieve that. But I have one of the best chefs in America behind it, which is. Her name is Nancy Silverton and she has some amazing restaurants in la. She invented La Brea Bakery, which is kind of worldwide. I just. Her palate is unbelievable. Excuse me. I get excited talking about the diner. So when I came home from Maine, she lives in my neighborhood. I said, I told her all about it. Could we have something like this in our neighborhood? She was in like that. We've been friends for 30 years because I invested in Moza and a couple of other places and we're friends. She was in. She gets it. We want to keep our neighborhood. We have this little Mayberry street in the center of our town called Larchmont Boulevard. And I see it gentrifying. I see it starting to load up with a lot of stores that I don't know. I don't know who go. I don't never. You must have this here. A lot of tchotchke stores and little perfumeries and stuff that there's nobody ever in there. And the soul of your neighborhood can go. The diners are disappearing from America. I don't know what your diner scene is like here in Nashville in the South.

[Bobby Bones]

It's a lot of Waffle House.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's like a diner.

[Bobby Bones]

So it's like. It's diner esque.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But I think you go and it's comfortable.

[Bobby Bones]

Very much so.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's. No, we're not talking about the best food you ever had.

[Bobby Bones]

You're talking about the most familiar food you ever had, which then makes it the best because you know exactly what to expect and you get it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And it's a. It's like your old sock or something. Right? It's like that. That's just how it is.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, I have memories of going to. And when I went to college, I was working full time and driving an hour to and from work and I would stop at a Waffle House. And this is not a Waffle House plug. They're not a sponsor. But my association with that place is not that. It was a five star sure, the greatest food ever.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's not why we go.

[Bobby Bones]

But it was like the greatest time of my life and I connect it to that. So when I drive by that, I still feel that it's what I imagine your motivation is for creating your own.

[Phil Rosenthal]

You're creating community. Diners are centers of the community. And if that disappears, maybe we lose our community. And then maybe we lose our town and maybe we lose our country.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you feel like you've gotten to be more of a, and I say this in a positive way, food snob. Since you have become completely even, your brand is now food. Because I think you're probably doing this before I even knew you were into food. Before Feed Phil, before the cookbook.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes, I loved it. Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

So you've been doing it a long time. I have only known you to do it for a decade or so.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I don't think I'm a snob. I'm a lover of food. An enthusiast. Yes, certain things are better than others. Yes, certain things. Like I don't think you know, once you learn a little bit about, let's say fast food, you're not going the Bobby Cast we'll be right back.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[TJ Maxx Advertiser]

I turned off news altogether.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Bobby Bones]

We got clear facts. We maybe we could calm down a little.

[NBC News Announcer]

NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News reporting for America.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

This is the Bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

Where in your life did the food infatuation happen? Was it as a kid and then you were able to really invest yourself in once you became, you know, successful in your career or did you find a love for it as you were becoming successful in your career?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I think I always loved it. I just growing up in my parents house, I was not in an environment where this love was able to flourish.

[Bobby Bones]

Why do you say that? What was home like?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Not good food. Both parents worked. We didn't have a lot of money. My mom barely had time to get home and make anything for the two monkeys that she had as children. And you know, nor did she have the real talent or passion for doing it. So I love my mother, I love my father. They were the most supportive, greatest people in the world. They just weren't chefs. A steak was punishment because it was the driest, cheapest cut of meat that they could afford. My mom had a setting on the oven for chou. That's when it was done. And we ate this and we couldn't. It hurt my jaws as a six year old to chew this thing and I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I finished. So a punishment. When I moved into New York City after college, some friends of mine said, come on, the boss has taken us to the steakhouse, Gallagher Steakhouse in Midtown Great steakhouse. I said, I don't like steak. They said, well, you should come anyway, because this is the best one. You probably have never had a steak. I said, who would like steak from where I was coming from? Why would you eat this? They said, come. Maybe you'll get something else if you don't like it. Well, this steak came out to the table, sizzling, thick, juicy, red, charred on the outside. The most gorgeous thing you ever saw. I literally said, that's steak.

[Bobby Bones]

You didn't recognize it?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Not in my life. 23 years old before that happened. And then, you know, it's like in the wizard of Oz when she opens the door. Now the movie's in color. That was an epiphany. That was one of them. The other was, I never had garlic before I went to college. I had pasta with sauce. The kids are like, why are you freaking out? Because it's the most delicious thing I ever had. It's just pasta and sauce. I said, no, no. What are these chopped up little white bits in there? They said, what? Garlic? I said, that's garlic. I heard of it. Never had it.

[Bobby Bones]

Did you have, like, an exploration of food when you started to realize there were more foods out there? It almost feels like kids when they go to college and they're like drugs and sex and all the stuff they didn't get to do.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Mine was food.

[Bobby Bones]

Yours was steak and garlic.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes. I was a nice boy. Yes. Well, I loved. I just loved exploring. And then also in my early 20s, I got a courier flight to Europe. And, boy, does that change your life. What?

[Bobby Bones]

A courier flight?

[Phil Rosenthal]

A courier flight means you're a courier, someone who's taking stuff over.

[Bobby Bones]

So you were taking something over of somebody.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And it was DHL. DHL. Before they had cargo planes, I'm talking 1983, they would send all their cargo as a passenger's excess baggage. You were only in charge of the luggage tags. 30 of them in an envelope like this. And when you get off the plane in, let's say, Paris, there's gonna be a guy holding a DHL sign and you give him the luggage tags. Your flight is free. You're gonna do it back to New York. Two weeks later. That's your time. They're not paying you, but the flight is free. You're like, this is the best job in the world. I had maybe $200 to spend for the two weeks. I didn't have much money at all. But, oh, my God, you get a baguette and some cheese in Paris. You sit in the park, you're King Louis. You're as good as anybody. And the point was made clear. Travel, travel, travel, travel. And the food. When I got other food, I mean, mind blown. It's the most mind expanding thing we can do in life is travel. Do you like to go?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And I've only in the past seven, eight years.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Had the money to travel. I never traveled growing up. I grew up in a very rural town in Arkansas.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Never left the state, so never traveled. And then I started traveling to places that I saw on television because I would go by myself.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Wow.

[Bobby Bones]

So I went to London because friends went to London and did that. I went to Japan because Full house.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Is that right?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I went to Hawaii because Brady Bunch, you know, when they have to throw the relic.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I guess these shows make a difference.

[Bobby Bones]

I went to Italy because of Raymond in the episode where he eats the. Because I feel like. And just generally I'm that version kind of cranky and, like, didn't want to really do anything.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Want to be comfortable, Want to know. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And there's the episode specifically. And I remember the moment because I, you know, with Italy, I associate this specific episode where Raymond's like. It's like pizza. And he's like, give me. Let me. Let me have another piece. And he's standing at that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's right.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, that is why I went to Italy for the first time.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And what'd you think?

[Bobby Bones]

I thought people were lying, honestly, because it sounds too good to be true. Two things. How flavorful? It's very much a full. Different flavor of the food. And also, people would say, you can eat all this food and not put on weight. Like, you could eat carbs and not put on weight. I'm like, there's no way. Like, this is just what people say. And I found that it was exactly right. One, it's a completely different full flavor. One that I've never experienced. A freshness, a fresh. An ingredient freshness.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Preach.

[Bobby Bones]

And again. And I'm not somebody who knows a lot about food. And then I would always try to stay away from the pastas or the big carbs because I would have, you know, a television show and got to stay thin. And yeah, it didn't matter because the ingredients were so fresh. You could eat all the pasta you wanted and you're all good. It was. It blew my mind.

[Phil Rosenthal]

What about people who go to Italy and look for the McDonald's and eat.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, that's crazy. And I think I would have been that if I had not discovered even the gas Stations.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's right.

[Bobby Bones]

It's. You stop at a gas station on the road.

[Phil Rosenthal]

There's a full Porchetta behind the glass.

[Bobby Bones]

Don't even know what a Porchett is, but there's one of those. That's right.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It's a. It's a. Like a roast pig.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah, there's that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

They roll in. They have spices and helpork. Edda Porchetta. Yes. The gas station had better bread than most restaurants here. Yeah, I know. It's a way of life.

[Bobby Bones]

If people would have said that to me, I would have said, you're lying. But then I experienced it, and we've been back. It's like one of our favorite places to go now. My wife and I.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Me, too, because it is number one for me.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That episode of Raymond that you just mentioned actually led me to somebody feed Phil. Because Ray, when I asked him, in between season one and two of the show where he was going on his hiatus, he said, I go to the Jersey Shore. And I said, well, that's nice. Have you ever been to Europe? Because it changed my life. He says, nah. I said, why not? He goes, I like the Jersey Shore. So, like, all of us, right? We need that little push sometimes. I said, oh, right. Then and there, I go, oh, we should do an episode. He goes, what do you mean? We should do an episode where we send you to Italy as you and you come back as me, Someone who's excited about travel and especially Italy and the food in Italy and the people in Italy and Italy. Took me three or four years to convince him to get on that plane. He didn't want to fly either. He's a little afraid of flying. But when he went, the best part of that episode was the arc of the character that I wrote. God doesn't want to go, complains the whole time, and then gets it.

[Bobby Bones]

I feel like I lived that arc, too.

[Phil Rosenthal]

That's great.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I saw it happen to my friend Ray. He comes running up to me, phil, have you had gelato? And I saw him change. And now he goes all the time, right then and there. This was the year 2000. I said, wow, what if I could do this for other people? You know, there's no greater high than turning people onto stuff you like. I'm guessing that's why you do what you do.

[Bobby Bones]

Right?

[Phil Rosenthal]

So we all do this to an extent. It's great. That's how you make friends. That's how you. You know, it's just that my tombstone will say, he tasted everything. You should try it.

[Bobby Bones]

Right Whenever you call this book Phil's Favorites because it's your second cookbook.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

Are these Phil's parentheses second Favorites?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, that's funny. The first cookbook was called Somebody Feed Phil the Book, and it covered the first four seasons of the show. The most requested recipes from everywhere we went. And that's great. For the second one, we're covering the latest four seasons of the show, but I wanted to add friends, family, and the restaurants that I love in my life that we haven't had on the show. So in a way, it is actually my favorite recipes.

[Bobby Bones]

Is it like when you record an album and let's say, some of my artist friends, they'll record 30 songs and put 12 on there in the cookbook. Did you have all these recipes and you slowly had to, like, weed out the ones?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I put everything in.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, you did?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, yeah. And the publishers have more, more, more. I'm like, oh, how many can we have? You should have 60 recipes. I'm like, oh, I think we can do it. And, yes, I know there's enough for another book, but the main thing is I love doing the show. The show generates everything else for me, like the live tour, the books.

[Bobby Bones]

How'd you like doing the travel show? Because I had one for a while, and I. I think my crew was a little too big.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Really? Yeah. How many people did you have?

[Bobby Bones]

Like 14.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah, that's a little big.

[Bobby Bones]

It felt a little large to where it was on Nat Geo. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so we traveled. It was domestically?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

I just felt like we couldn't get to, like, the core of, like, the person we were trying. Because what I would do is I would go. And it was kind of a version of what Mike Rowe did, but kind of jackass, but then kind of who I am.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

It was like an amalgamation of, like, my favorite things.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes, But.

[Bobby Bones]

But how I would present it, and I. I found that our crew kept it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

It created a bit of a barrier.

[Bobby Bones]

I was wondering, like, what was your crew size when doing these shows? Because it does feel so intimate.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We have 10 of us, and then we pick up the rest locally. So we don't need to bring a sound guy, because sound is kind of objective. It's not. The only thing that's subjective is how you like the thing shot. So three camera guys, local producer, our producer that we're bringing my brother, who's the executive producer and our director. So I like having the same bunch of core guys, and then we're happy to pick up fixers, transportation, everything else. We need locally.

[Bobby Bones]

Would you get tired? How many episodes would you shoot in a row while being out?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Two at a time.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. So that's not so bad.

[Phil Rosenthal]

No. Once we did three and the crew was like, you know, it's too much and of course it is. It's not for me. I show up and eat.

[Bobby Bones]

You like doing the live shows?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Love. Why? Because I had the stage craft experience. I had it. And this is now combining everything. My ability to tell a story as a writer combined with the way I know how to deliver it. Did you see Jimmy Kimmel last night by any chance?

[Bobby Bones]

His band. Talking about his band leader was his friend. Slash band leader. I should say that.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yeah. I know this is. This is airing a little bit.

[Bobby Bones]

No, it's all good.

[Phil Rosenthal]

But I don't think I've ever seen a more gorgeous. Well thought out, well delivered. This is extemporaneous. He's doing this while, you know, extremely.

[Bobby Bones]

Emotional, which is hard to even his.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Best friend from childhood. Yeah. His whole life I could cry thinking about him, but he was. I just think he's heroic.

[Apple Card Advertiser]

Who?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I've never seen anyone deliver like that on TV in a live situation. I just thought it was absolutely amazing. What a gift to be able to do that. And in a way he's lucky to have the outlet for it. But you know, I think these guys, all the late night guys, I think they're doing God's work right now. I think it's important. It unites us in a way.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. My hero has always been. He's one of my white whales that I haven't met. But I was able to watch him on television and see somebody looked a little odd and think that guy has sensibilities that are like mine. That's a little odd. I'm from the south, he's from the Midwest.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

It was David Letterman.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Okay, so Letterman produced Raymond, so I got to know him a little. I had to go and meet with him to get the job.

[Bobby Bones]

Can you give me a story?

[Phil Rosenthal]

I can. Can we take a minute break?

[Bobby Bones]

Take a minute. Take an hour.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I'm an old guy. I need to pee. Take a breath.

[Bobby Bones]

Bathroom right there.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thanks.

[Bobby Bones]

The bathroom right there.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Back after this. We'll be right back. David, let him in store. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Bobby Bones]

We got clear facts. Maybe we can calm down a little.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

And we're back on the Bobbycast.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay, give me a great Letterman story to kind of wrap us up here.

[Phil Rosenthal]

So I go to New York. The Letterman show is still going. I go to the Ed Sullivan Theater. I'm, like, really nervous because I love. Like I said, I don't miss an episode of that show. You go up to the sixth floor, and his assistant says, right in there. And I go in. And when you go into David Letterman's office, his desk is facing the wrong way. In other words, you come in the door and you're behind his desk. And I look at this and I go, that's odd. And just then, he comes in behind me. I go, oh, hi. And he goes, have a seat. And he gestures for me to sit at the desk. Behind the desk. I said, not behind the desk. He said, absolutely behind the desk. Like, it's my office, my meeting. He and his other producers sit in the chairs in. In front of the desk. So I go, well, the first thing I'd like to do is throw you all the hell out of my office. And this is how seasoned comedy people laugh at a line like that. That's it. And I'm a nervous wreck. David Letterman sits to the side. He's sitting in a chair kind of like this, but he's leaning it back against a bookcase. Now, the bookcase has a stereo, and the stereo is blasting heavy metal music that they do not turn down. So I have to talk like this to them. I thought it was the weirdest thing. No one offered to take my coat. It was freezing outside. I had a winter coat. They just sit there and they're, like, looking at me like this, and they go, so tell me what you think the show is. And I said, well, it's basically Ray's personality, and I'm taking the real elements from his actual family because it seems really funny to me. And I explained the situation, and I said, what? I don't know. I'm filling in with my family. And they nod like this. And Letterman goes, just don't embarrass us. And I said, oh, that's very nice. I said, that's what I tell my kids when I drop them off to school every morning. And he goes. And I leave that. And, you know, they were, in a way, treating me as if I had the job already because saying, don't. Just don't embarrass us. Is like saying, go ahead, go do it. But I gotta be honest, I. That was the audition. I didn't know he had to sign off on me. After that initial meeting, I heard from David Letterman. A grand total, in the nine years we were on, a grand total of, I'd say, altogether five minutes worth of time. They were not involved. He didn't know really about sitcoms. He would send us a top 10 list for our gag reel for a wrap party at the end of each season. He would maybe call and say, congratulations on the Emmy. But when he was going off the air a few years later, himself, Ray had an opportunity. He had been on the show many, many times since Raymond was on. Ray had the opportunity to go on Letterman in the final weeks and say thanks. Right? And I thought, you know what? He gave me a pretty good life, too. I should at least call and leave a message. I call and leave a message. Can you tell Dave that I called and I wanted to say thank you. Do you know that in that week, his last week of being on the air, maybe the busiest, most crucial week of his career, he called me back and we talked for 20 minutes. He. And he was absolutely lovely and charming and gracious. I couldn't have asked for more. And I have seen him since then, and he's always very kind. As a matter of fact, you'll see him on the CBS special. He's on the special.

[Bobby Bones]

My final question, how hard was it to end the show?

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, it's hard because you create a family, meaning the family of people that you work with, 150 people. So we knew it was time to end. You want to get off the stage before somebody says, hey, you should get off the stage. And so that was being a student of sitcoms. I knew we should end well and end before we become lousy because maybe then the show will have greater lasting value. We all know the sitcoms that stayed past their prime, so I didn't want to be that way. So it was easy to say, we're done. It was hard to leave my friends. That's the hard part. But that shouldn't be the reason you stay. Especially, you know, if you. If you respect your audience, your good time and your cash payout shouldn't be the reason you stay.

[Bobby Bones]

This has been awesome. Thanks for being so generous. Stories.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

Good luck with the diner.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Thanks.

[Bobby Bones]

Hopefully one day I hope you can.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Get there with your ankle.

[Bobby Bones]

I want it.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Bobby Bones]

When I hobble in with my pickleball injury. Yeah. This has been super cool for me, Mike Anything for Phil. Thank you for so much great TV over the years.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Mike. You're nice too.

[Bobby Bones]

There's like so many episodes that associate with like my childhood and growing up watching it. It's awesome to get to meet you.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Oh, thank you, my friend. Thank you all of us.

[Bobby Bones]

We're like crying. We're like thanking you and crying.

[Phil Rosenthal]

I love it.

[Bobby Bones]

So Phil's favorites, the cookbook. It is out now and we're not not to talk about it, but when you went, when you took the show to Russia, one of my favorite limited series that I've ever seen.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Well, that led to somebody feed Phil as well because that was my first time on camera as well.

[Bobby Bones]

It was so good. Thank you. Yes.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Sporting Raymond.

[Bobby Bones]

I think we've done 10 minutes. Just saying you're so good and we love you. So there he is. Phil Rosenthal, thank you.

[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Bobby Bones]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones here. Have you ever tried planning a trip for a group? It can be challenging. One person wants a hotel with a pool. Another wants a vacation rental with a giant kitchen. And someone else wants free Wi Fi. You know, on booking.com you can find a stay that works for all of them. Hotels and rentals. Whatever you need. It makes the seemingly impossible group trip totally possible. Find exactly what you are booking for booking.com booking. Yeah, that's booking.com booking. Yeah.

[Phil Rosenthal]

We finally switched to T Mobile because with them we can be connected here and there.

[Bobby Bones]

Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you.

[Phil Rosenthal]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected. Switch and start saving today.

[Bobby Bones]

Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with.

[Phil Rosenthal]

Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile-1-800-T Mobile. See details@t mobile.com when you own your own business, you own every decision. Catch the red eye or take the.

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[Phil Rosenthal]

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[Phil Rosenthal]

This is an iheart podcast.