BOBBYCAST - Stephen Wilson Jr. on Going from Scientist to Musician and Turning Tragedy Into Art

Summary

Podcast Summary: BOBBYCAST – Stephen Wilson Jr. on Going from Scientist to Musician and Turning Tragedy Into Art

Host: Bobby Bones
Guest: Stephen Wilson Jr.
Date: February 20, 2026
Episode Theme:
A heartfelt, candid exploration of Stephen Wilson Jr.'s unique journey from a small-town scientist to acclaimed musician, his deeply personal approach to songwriting, the influence of family (particularly his late father), and how he transforms trauma and loss into art.

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Overview

This episode of The Bobby Bones Show’s "Bobbycast" features an in-depth conversation with country artist Stephen Wilson Jr., recently nominated for New Artist of the Year at the CMAs. Wilson shares his unusual path from aspiring scientist to full-time songwriter, reflecting on family dynamics, grief, creativity, and finding his identity as an artist later in life. The episode traces his roots in rural Indiana, his struggles with family trauma, and the pivotal moments that fueled his career transition. Notably, Wilson discusses how personal loss—especially the death of his father—inspired some of his most resonant work, and how he uses music as both memorial and medicine.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Family, and the Origins of Musical Interest

• Family & Upbringing: Wilson describes a challenging childhood in southern Indiana, growing up in a blue-collar environment. His parents split early, and his mother's later relationships brought trauma (07:12).
• Academic Side: Despite a family tradition of hands-on work, Wilson excelled academically—especially in science—though his father tried to imprint the notion that "school wasn’t for us" (07:36–12:30).
• Discovery of Music: Started playing guitar at 16 after demonstrating an intuitive musical ability; his father bought him a guitar to help him connect with others (03:18).
• Synesthesia in Music: Wilson explains he “sees” shapes and colors when he hears music—a unique way of memorizing and composing (04:54–06:34).

“I kind of piece [music] together in that way. ... Like kind of moving shapes.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (05:12)

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2. Transition from Science to Music

• College Aspirations: Entered college aiming to be a veterinarian, but after working as a vet tech, switched his major to microbiology and chemistry (15:25–15:55).
• Living Dual Lives: Formed an indie rock band in his last semester, playing guitar and writing/co-writing songs while working contract science gigs (17:06–23:00).
• Working Scientist: Landed a full-time food scientist job at Mars, developing products like a popular dog treat, all while secretly continuing to write music (23:13).
• Pivotal Advice: A supervisor at Mars warned about the “golden handcuffs” of a secure corporate job potentially crushing creative dreams, urging Wilson to leap while he still could (23:49–26:09).
• Leap of Faith: Wilson quit his secure job without a publishing deal or a clear plan, embarking on a difficult but necessary journey toward music (26:09–29:47).

“They're going to chain you to that desk, and your dreams of being a songwriter are going to die with it. ... I recommend you blow it up now.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr.’s former boss (23:49)

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3. The Struggle Into Music, Finding His Voice, and First Break

• Early Hustle: Supported himself by bartending and waiting tables, playing every open mic he could and developing performance confidence (30:52–31:31).
• Bluebird Café: First time singing publicly was at Nashville’s famed Bluebird Café, thanks to a friend’s invitation (30:52).
• Songwriting and Self-Doubt: Initially saw himself strictly as a songwriter, not a singer—“I have a songwriter’s voice...” (31:19).
• Breakthrough: Industry vet Chris Oglesby of BMG heard Wilson’s unique song at a writer’s round. Oglesby told him he was "seven years ahead" of Nashville and immediately offered him a publishing deal (29:48–34:27).

“I think you’re going to change this town. ... You’re going to be a Hall of Famer.”
— Chris Oglesby (34:27)

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4. Fatherhood, Grief, and Creativity

• Father as Corner Man: Wilson’s dad—a formative force and literal boxing coach—encouraged him to pursue music when he doubted himself (26:09–29:47).
• Death of His Father: Father died suddenly in 2018; Wilson was not able to reach him in person and said goodbye over the phone (39:12–40:22).
• Transforming Grief: Sang his own song at his father’s funeral, which became the turning point from being solely a writer to stepping into the artist role. He describes this as "resurrecting" his father through music (43:17–50:05).

“His last words were, ‘Write a good song for me, Stephen.’ ... And it was terrible. ... But that song—my first performance as an artist—was at his funeral.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (41:14–43:17)

• Stand By Me: Covering “Stand By Me” at a festival just weeks after his father’s passing became a profound, healing experience—he describes feeling a “portal” open on stage, connecting him to his father (47:18–50:05).
• Landmark Moment: His performance of “Stand By Me” at the CMAs is lauded as one of the most powerful in recent years; he doesn’t remember much of it due to being “shielded” emotionally for the moment (50:14–51:06).

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5. Songwriting Process and Purpose

• Turning Tragedy Into Art: Wilson’s music is deeply personal, often rooted in trauma or loss—which he transforms into cathartic, resonant art (55:57).
• The Song "Gary": Inspired by a roadside memorial to a teenage boy named Gary, the song honors the under-celebrated, blue-collar “fixers” who keep the world running. Wilson describes “Gary” as a symbol for all those unheralded workers nearing “endangered species” status in a rapidly changing world (52:45–57:29).

“Gary’s are fixers... not because he wanted to be a plumber…he grew up in a world that was broken and he had to learn to be a fixer. My favorite art comes from broken places.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (55:58–57:29)

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6. Musical Influences and Personal Favorites [59:40–69:13]

• Favorite Albums: Brings Led Zeppelin’s Houses of the Holy—discusses its impact on his musical formation, especially Jimmy Page’s innovative guitar work. Also mentions Weezer’s Blue album as personally formative (“those two records really changed my life.”).
• Stealing Music: Humorously recounts stealing the Blue album CD from Walmart out of desperation to own it, despite his father’s strict view on stealing (02:14 and 66:59).

“I was like, don’t care. I’ll die for this. I’ll go to jail for this. I’ll go to boys’ school. I don’t care.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (02:14/66:59)

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7. Reflections on Identity, Performance, and Growth

• Married to Lee Nash: Reveals he was Lee Nash’s guitarist for four years, further learning about presence and performance (69:39–70:46).
• On Performing: Describes his live show as a “mutual exchange of catharsis,” where both he and the fans share emotional energy. Sees all attendees—regardless of age—as “kids incubating,” just as he is (71:53–72:52).

“There’s a lot of catharsis from me and from them. And it’s like this mutual exchange... we’re all incubating out there.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (71:53–72:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Refusing to Be Defined by Family’s Past:

“I kind of had to prove him wrong. ... And when I graduated from college, I couldn’t have seen a prouder father, really, because I think I defied so many things. I broke so many paradigms in his brain.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (11:48)

• On Creativity Amid Grief:

“What if one day you walk into this office and that sound ... is gone? What if it just gives up on you? ... That day would destroy me.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (26:09)

• On Songwriting Motive:

“Art... my favorite art comes from broken places. And fixers are products of brokenness because they've been around so much brokenness in their life that they just want to fix it.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (55:58–57:29)

• On Live Shows:

“It’s a two way street. ... The fans are there to, you know, be there. ... There’s a lot of catharsis from me and from them. ... We’re all kids or just some of us have been around longer than others.”
— Stephen Wilson Jr. (71:48–72:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:14 – The “cardinal sin” of stealing ("I’ll die for this. I got it. I’ll go to jail for this. I'll go to boys' school. I don't care.")
• 03:18–06:07 – How music and science blended in his mind; synesthesia and learning guitar
• 07:12–12:33 – Family history, father’s influence, breaking family expectations
• 15:25–17:06 – College aspirations shift from veterinary medicine to microbiology and chemistry
• 17:06–23:00 – Indie band days, balancing science career and gigging
• 23:49–26:09 – The "golden handcuffs" conversation that spurred leaving the science world
• 30:52–31:31 – First time singing in public (Bluebird Café)
• 34:27 – Chris Oglesby’s belief in Wilson as a songwriter and artist
• 39:12–41:14 – The sudden death of his father and final words shared
• 43:17–50:05 – Singing at his father's funeral, using music to process grief, and the subsequent performance openings
• 52:45–57:29 – Writing “Gary”—the song’s meaning and social commentary on blue-collar life
• 59:58–62:07 – Houses of the Holy and Weezer Blue album as artistic touchstones
• 69:39–71:48 – Performing with Lee Nash; developing live show presence; exchanging energy with fans

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Tone and Language

This episode flows as a genuine, emotionally resonant conversation filled with humor, humility, and insight. Wilson is disarmingly open about his vulnerabilities, failures, traumas, and triumphs. Bobby Bones provides personal anecdotes, creating an atmosphere of camaraderie and reflection, with both men sharing experiences of overcoming difficult upbringings to find their respective callings.

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Final Thoughts

This conversation is a portrait of perseverance, self-discovery, and the relentless drive to create. Stephen Wilson Jr.’s journey from small-town Indiana scientist to acclaimed country songwriter is proof that it’s never too late to reinvent yourself, and that even the deepest wounds can become the wellspring for meaningful art. Listeners are left inspired not just by his story, but by his authenticity—and reminded that everyone is “still incubating.”

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Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Bobby Bones]

Guaranteed Human from executive producer Taylor Sheridan. A new era of Yellowstone begins in the new CBS original series marshals. On March 1, Casey Dutton is back, and he's teaming up with an elite unit of U.S. marshals to bring range justice to Montana. With the Yellowstone ranch behind him and a new team at his side, Casey will balance family and duty as he faces his biggest fight yet. Lou Grimes stars in Marshalls March 1 on CBS and streaming on Paramount.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.

[Bobby Bones]

Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from cnn from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most? Because Xfinity wifi can.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

And.

[Bobby Bones]

And what if your WI fi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that, too. What if your WI fi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online. And finally, what if your WI fi was, like, the smartest WI fi? Yeah, it's wifi that is so smart, it makes everything work better together. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Imagine that.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Steven Wilson Jr.]

What can't you do?

[Podcast Announcer]

Visit Capella Edu to learn more.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

My dad hates thieves. The cardinal sin to him was theft. So I knew, like, if I got caught, the most supreme beating ever going to come behind it. I was like, don't care. I'll die for this. I got it. I'll go to jail for this. I'll go to boys school. I don't care.

[Bobby Bones]

Hey, guys. Bobby Bones here. Today's guest, one of my favorites. It is Steven Wilson Jr. He has been killing it lately. He was nominated for New Artist of the Year at last year cma. He performed Standby Me. It was amazing. The crowd went crazy. We talk about that. His album Son of a dad came out last year. 34 songs basically dedicated to his dad who passed away. We get into that. Here he's kicking off a whole new chapter with his single Gary. And he's gearing up for the gary the torch 2026 tour. And go to stephenwilsonjr.com for tickets there. He's also. We talk about this way later, married to Lee Nash, the lead singer of Sixpence none the Richer. Which, fun fact. So we get into all that. One of my favorite artists right now in country music. Here he is, Steven Wilson Jr. When did you start playing music of any sort?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Around 16. My dad got me my first guitar for my 16th birthday and he caught me picking out theme songs to sitcoms on one of those crappy little Walmart keyboards. And he was like, well, how are you doing that? I was like, I'm just doing it. It goes like this. And he was like, okay. And then he knew I was super into rock and roll and I was a real nerd. I, like, had piles of these biology notebooks and I was a real quiet kid and super into science. And I think he was just kind of worried about me more so than anything. He was like, dude, this kid needs some help. And I was boxing. But boxing's a solitary sport, you know, it's very. It's a lonely sport. It's one on one. It's not a team sport. And so, you know, he got me a guitar because I think he could see that I had this natural affinity for it. And I mean, I just started going. I just started playing. It was like, I just understood it. I don't know, it just made sense.

[Bobby Bones]

Was there science in music to you? Like the math of it?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I wouldn't say the math, but the shapes of it and the alchemy of it, the chemistry of it, more fascinated me than the math. I learned the math later with some of the music theory. I didn't really get big into it, but you can quickly see how the numbers work within it. But I was more interested in the chemistry of songs. Like the alchemy of, you know, how they change emotions and the colors of chords.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you see colors of chords?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I think so. In shapes. Like a lot. You know, that's kind of. I kind of piece them together in that way. And like, if I were kind of Moving shapes.

[Bobby Bones]

You would see a shape or a color. Like if I just hit a garage. You would. In your mind, you would see a color.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, probably a brown and. And then. Yeah. Like kind of a right triangle. Like. Yeah, I mean, that's.

[Bobby Bones]

You mean you're serious?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Very serious, yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Wow.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

But, you know, that's kind of how you're. It's your brain's way of allowing you to remember things. They're just. I think it's how I. I've always been pretty good at memorizing music. And, yeah, I have a very visual memory. Like, I've always had that ability to read things and memorize them fast. It's helped me a lot through science because science is a lot of memorization and regurgitation. And so, yeah, it helped me memorize music because, sonically, I had a harder time memorizing it at first. You know, it was the shapes helped me keep track of it all.

[Bobby Bones]

When you would explain to people what you were seeing, would they understand meaning? Yeah, I see a shape. But unless someone actually knows music or understands what you're talking about or. Did you try to explain that?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, I never tried to explain it. I've never really explained it ever. Until now. I guess it's just. It's just a way for my own personal brain to kind of, you know, synthesize it and compute it all. It makes no sense to anybody else.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, I say that, and my wife does this all months have a number, and she can see any word. You can say any word to her, and she can spell it backward because she can see it in her head.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I do that too. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Your ABCs, all that.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I don't have the ability to do that, but I can say Rumpelstiltskin, and she can just look at it and spell it backward all the way through.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And she was like, I didn't even know people couldn't do this.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, my dad could do that very well. He was like a genius at it. So I think I inherited it a little bit from him. Even though he hated academics, he just had this weird, like, visual memory, and

[Bobby Bones]

so he hated academics. You were extremely academic, it sounds like.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I was really nerdy. And, you know, in a different household, I think I would have been a really great academic. But I grew up with so much trauma with my mother. My mom and dad split when I was a kid, and she ran off with these. These guys were abusive and really abusive, and so I spent a lot of my time in fear of my mother's. Life my whole childhood.

[Bobby Bones]

Did she stay in your life?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, she moved to Tennessee, but we obviously stayed in contact and visited a good bit. And we're very close now. But there was a time period in my childhood where it was just tough. And, you know, I spent a lot of my childhood in just perpetual, like, kind of a catatonic state of just fear. And it was really hard for me to be the student that I probably should have been because I was extremely distracted by that. But, yeah, I think I had a. You know, and it took me a long time to realize that until I kind of got past, you know, what was happening with my mom. And once I got to high school and I really realized what kind of academic I was. And then in college, it really became obvious because my father imprinted so many things on me. And he didn't mean to do this because he was a child with a child. But I remember him telling me as a kid, because I got his name and I looked just like him. So I think he was under the assumption that I was going to be just like him. So I remember him telling me, you know, Steven, I'm. You know, we're not good at school. Like, we don't. You know, you don't. You're not going to go to college because, you know, people, you know, people like me, we don't. We're not good at school. I remember him just kind of imprinting that on me as a kid, and I was like, but I. But I like school. And I. It's. It's not hard for me. Most of it isn't at all. And. But I just kind of, you know, it made me think that school didn't really matter, you know, early on. And then I shook that loose because, you know, I kind of had to. I kind of had to prove him wrong. I was like, no, like, as I got into, like, organic chemistry and AP classes, classes he could have never even thought about going into, and it kind of. It kind of challenged me to kind of disrupt perhaps that family, you know, in his mind, curse like you. You know, we don't, you know, we work with our hands and our, you know, and. And that's it. You know, schooling is not for you.

[Bobby Bones]

You think his dad imprinted that on him?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Big time. Yeah. You know, because they worked. They grew up in body shops and worked in body shops and, you know, the whole. His plan for me was, you know, graduate from high school, best you can go, get you a job, get you some money, you know, and that was stability. Right, Yeah. I mean, that was in a small town in Southern Indiana. That was the life, you know, and he believed I could at least do that. And I'll never forget when I left for college. You know, I got into college on my own. I did everything completely on my own, like financial aid, saved up money. I took a year to save up money. And like, you know, for about six weeks before I would, you know, say, dad, I'm going to college. And he'd be like, what? No, you ain't going to college. Okay, whatever. And in like four weeks till I left. And I keep talking about it. And then the night I left, I was. I was, you know, I was gonna leave late at night so I didn't have to deal with morning traffic driving out. And so I left and I woke him up because he went to bed at like 8 at night because he'd get up at 4. And I said, dad, I'm leaving. And he said, where are you going? And I said, to college. And I feel like in that moment it just. He couldn't believe it. Like, he thought I was kind of making it up. He's like, oh, he's just gonna go to a hotel or something for a couple days.

[Bobby Bones]

Like a little kid running away. He'll come back.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, like, exactly. And it really. And he got up and he got his wallet out and he pulled. He had $20 in it. And he goes here. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, he gave me a hug and told me he loved me and. And I was. I never lived in his house again after that.

[Bobby Bones]

That's such a loving gesture, though, of not knowing what to do. So doing. The one thing that you can do to provide any sort of extra stability is handing over money.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. And it was just 20 bucks. But it was, that's. It was a very meaningful 20 bucks. It was the only, you know, and. And that's what started my college career. And I got a college degree, which when I graduated from college, I couldn't have seen a prouder father, really, because I think I defied so many things. I broke so many paradigms in his brain. Like, I just took a sledgehammer to those walls and he was like, okay, we aren't those people that I thought we were.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, you taught him something.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, totally.

[Bobby Bones]

Not only are we both wildly good looking guys, obviously, both of us, it's like a mirror.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

We're like, hey, hey, you guys.

[Bobby Bones]

I was. I was the first kid to graduate high school. My family. And when I applied to college. Nobody knew. I woke up and was like, hey, I'm leaving. I'm going to college. I didn't have a bedroom, so I slept on the couch my whole life. And so I grabbed all the clothes underneath my couch, which was like my closet. And I was like, you're just telling that story. And it's like, it's in another. That's me in another dimension.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I got in my old Subaru and left. And they were like, all right, see you later. And that was it. And I went to college. I mean, it was the same thing. I just went to college. Like, there was no. They didn't know anything about me taking acts. I did it all, got everything, you know, covered. And then I just told them. I was like, I'm going to college today. And they're like, okay. And then I just went to college. It's this. It's the same version of your story.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

That's wild.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, here we are.

[Bobby Bones]

It's like two models sitting here talking about our academic careers. Wow. Look at us. Except I chose this and you chose something a lot smarter.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Let's take a quick pause for a

[Bobby Bones]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Bobby Bones]

And we're back on the bobbycast. You get to college?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Did you.

[Bobby Bones]

You had an idea of what you wanted to do, right? Because you started to enjoy, like, some of those. You said AP classes. High school.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. When I first got into college, I was going to be a veterinarian. That's if you. If anyone would have asked me as a kid what you were going to be when you grew up. I would have been, oh, I'm going to be a veterinarian.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you have animals at home? Is that why?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Oh, yeah. And I just was obsessed with animals. Zoology most likely. Like on a. You know, working as, like, a vet at a zoo, not, like, having my own practice. Like, I would have been, like, price some specialty vet or something.

[Bobby Bones]

Giraffes.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Giraffes, cheetahs and. But I, you know, ended up working as a vet tech for a couple years while I was in college and quickly switched gears after I realized what veterinary medicine really looked like. I had two great doctors I worked for and learned so much. And then I switched to microbiology and chemistry and. Because I really found out that the microscopic world was way more fascinating to me because I felt like the ma. The microscopic world explained the macroscopic world or the macro world, honestly, you know, a little bit more, you know, than the macro world could. It kind of like, helped me understand the small things, helped me understand the big things. And I found, you know, under a microscope, a lot of the small things are just mirroring the big things. They're just. They're like, you know, the worlds are the same. They're just scaled up differently.

[Bobby Bones]

So where did you end up, like, how did you decide, like, specifically what you wanted to do for a career?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, I didn't know exactly. When I graduated with my degree in micro and chemistry, I was going to honestly go get my medical doctorate or a PhD. That was my first, my next step, because in, you know, the applied sciences without a PhD, it's going to be tough. But I ended up finding a really good job with just a bachelor's. I'll get to that. But that was my plan. And I ended up starting this indie rock band the last semester of my senior year of college. And what was the name of the band? Autovon. Okay. And I was a lead guitar player. Played this green Stratocaster that I still have today. And it's a Jeff Beck Strat. And and we just started playing because I was playing music, I was playing in jazz bands in university and I was a self taught guitar player, but I was a serious jazz nerd and rock and roll nerd. And people would hear me playing in dorms and stuff. And when I moved to Nashville, I met some friends that I knew from the previous college that I went to and they asked if I'd want to just play in this band. And I was like, sure. I had nothing better to do outside of my degree. And I was almost finished. And anyway, we started playing shows and before we knew it we had like a manager and we made a record and before, you know, we were on tour with these bands. So I went and played in indie rock bands right after I graduated from college. Not really planning to do that. They just, this opportunity just kind of came up and I couldn't really say no to it. It was such a cool experience to have. And so I went and explored that and just to see what that life was like living in a van with, you know, three of my best buds and traveling around the country and sometimes the world and playing shows for five people or 5,000. And you know, that's where I really learned how to perform. Besides boxing. Boxing was kind of my first stage. But this is where I learned how to be in front of people with a guitar and not boxing gloves on. And you know, because I was a weird, quiet dude. Not necessarily someone you'd be like, you belong on a stage, son. Like, you know, you're going to be a star. No, that was not like being spoken to me. But I learned, you know, how to, you know, handle a crowd. And I learned how to sing because I became a background vocalist in that band.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, you said you're playing guitar, you weren't the lead singer.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, I was a kind of a shredder, playing too many notes and. But singing a lot of backgrounds. And I was writing or co writing the songs with the lead singer. And that's where I really, for the first time saw a song that I'd written or co written. And I'd see people like react to it or start singing it. And I was like, whoa, that's a, that's a new experience. And so I really became enamored with that, you know, because I was super into poetry and songwriting. I was kind of like a secret songwriter, you know, outside of my science stuff, it was my own little secret. But I wasn't singing them or anything. I was just writing these poems and stanzas. I had books of them. And my mama did that. I used to find her like writing poems on junk mail and throwing them away. And I just kind of stole that little technique from her because she was going through terrible stuff. She would write all these poems. So I just picked that up and I channeled that into that band and then kind of saw those poems come to life in that band. And I was like, this is a really special thing, you know, like music and being a creator of it. I'm not sure if this is. Is this my career path? I don't know.

[Bobby Bones]

You have a job at this point? Like a job looking 9 to 5.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I was working as a contracted scientist.

[Bobby Bones]

So you were doing that while you were touring? How did you. I feel like if you're. You're a scientist, you're kind of stationary.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I was working contract to contract. So I'd work at one lab and I work at another lab for a week. And I kind of work around our touring schedul. And there is this company in town that is a staffing agency for scientists, like chemists, microbiologists and engineers. Think of it like a staffing agency for anything, but specialized for the applied sciences. So, you know, some businesses and some laboratories would need a scientist, but not permanently. They just need it for like six months on this project or six weeks or maybe six days. And there's the contracts could be as interesting as you could think of, as long as you could imagine. And you can take them or leave them. And they were hourly and they would get their cut and you get your cut and you could just kind of walk away, go on tour. Maybe another contract would come in. And I kept doing good work and kept doing contracts, and I eventually got one for this company, Mars, the food company. And they kept giving me contract after contract. And one day they just said, hey, we want to stop giving you these contracts and just give you an employment contract and like hire you for real. And they kind of. That was like the first time I'd ever been offered a job like that. And I couldn't. I just married my wife and kid, and I had a kid, a stepson through her, and I was in that indie band still. And so I made a decision to kind of leave the van and trailer life and go into full time science. But I kept writing songs constantly through all of that, thinking you'd get back

[Bobby Bones]

to it at one day. One point, One day maybe.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, it was always just kind of.

[Bobby Bones]

Or just personal fulfillment.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, personal fulfillment. Is this something I could not turn off? That's really what it was. It was like. It's almost like a tick, you know, I had to do it and what

[Bobby Bones]

are you doing at Mars?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

So they hired me as a product developer and a food scientist. And so I started developing products for them. I developed this one product called Dennis Sticks Fresh. I don't know if you have a dog. It's like this green.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Breath fresh.

[Bobby Bones]

We use those.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, that's my baby. And it's still on the shelf doing well. And, you know, a couple other products I got to help design or co or develop or co develop. And that was my life. And I was kind of doing the whole corporate thing and.

[Bobby Bones]

How long?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Probably three and a half, four years. And I had a really great boss because I was writing songs the whole time. I could almost, like, work in a lab and do my work with one hand and write songs with the other. And I had a great boss that had been there for quite some time. And, you know, he kind of saw myself in him, you know, some years ago. And I think he knew where my heart was. He knew I wasn't supposed to be there. In the weirdest way, I think he knew that. And he told me, hey, they're about to put the golden handcuffs on you. That's what he was. A really powerful metaphor. And I'm a word nerd. And he knew that I like words, and he knew that was going to do something to me. And he said, do with that what you will, but you're doing great here. But they're going to chain you to that desk, and your dreams of being a songwriter are going to die with it. Now. He said that to you? Yeah. And so I said, you know, it's going to be impossible to blow your world up. Then you're going to have a better car, a better house, maybe your kid in private school. Blowing up that world is going to be very hard, if not impossible. I. I recommend you blow it up now, like, while the. There's less pieces to pick up. And it's gonna be terrible, but I think it's gonna be way more terrible if not impossible. And I fear that, you know, your inability to do that later would just be a heartbreaking situation for you. And I just want you to know that's kind of coming down the pike. I see it, like 10 years down the road for you, just saying, you know, cheers. Have a good day. I put in my two weeks, six weeks after that conversation, I walked out of there and, you know, everybody thought I was crazy. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, they all thought I was, like, going to Nestle or something. I was like, nestle, get you? And I was like, no, no, no. Nashville did. And they were like, where are you gonna. So you gonna go write songs for somebody? I was like, no. Like, you got a publishing deal? No. Someone's cutting your songs, right? No. Have you ever sang a song before? No.

[Bobby Bones]

So at this point, you weren't even singing?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, I'd never sang a song for anybo life. And so that was, you know, that was a lot to come to. Come to terms with. But, you know, it was a real leap of faith, you know, I had this. You know what I call a great pestering with a capital P. It was like this feeling you could hear. I've spoke about it before, but when I first got into that company, like, it was real quiet because it was such a comfortable job. It was this new world, but there was this quiet kind of feeling, but I could deal with it. It was. It was. It was something I could cope with. And then as the couple years went down, it got quite louder. And if I could translate what the frequency was saying into English, it. It said, you're not supposed to be here. That's the only. I know that's what it was saying, whatever that sound is. And. And I would hear it, and I know it, and I'd be like, okay, whatever. But this job is. I'm doing well here and keep my head down. And eventually that. That feeling got louder. I mean, honestly, deafening towards the end, right around the Golden Handcuffs conversation. So, like, while this dude is telling me this, I got this, like, roaring feeling in my head. I think that he can even hear at this point or kind of sense. And. Which was so wild because when he said, you're not supposed to be here, I was like, oh, my God. He just literally said what I'm hearing. And so it really helped me make that decision. But what. What really did it. What made me, like, actually put in my two weeks. Because, you know, I spent six weeks pondering at what if it's this. What if this happens? Scenario planning this and that. But the thing. The deal breaker for me was one day. What if one day you walk into this office and that sound, that feeling that you can hear is gone. What if it just gives up on you? And that. Honestly, I was like, that day would destroy me. I'm not sure if I'd recover from it. And then I was like, I'm out of here. So that was. I'd rather blow up my world now than to go through that later. And so that was really, that's really what did it. So there was like a kind of a bigger presence, a bigger influence that had a lot to do with it. And my dad being the corner man that he is, he was always in my corner in the fights. He was my trainer from day one. And he became a trainer in that moment too, like a corner man straight up. Like when I left that job, he was like my number one go to and for what? Just advice, like, am I crazy to quit this job? And he told me, I'll never forget, he said, you're, you're crazy not to quit that job because, you know, like, and I could see that, you know, going back to his dreams as a boxer, I could hear that young fighter that, you know, could have been something. I could hear that part in his voice. And so, so that, that helped a lot too. And then when I quit the job, I went and bartended and waited tables for three years and he was like in my corner the whole time. I got rejected more in one week than most people experience in a lifetime. You just get constantly told no, no, no, you don't write songs about trucks and beer. You're really weird, you're too old, all this.

[Bobby Bones]

So you're trying to get a publishing

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

deal and I was just trying to get a publishing deal. I was just trying to get other people to sing my songs. And I'd get meetings occasionally here and there, but I would just be told like, you know, it was a pretty much a resounding no. Like this isn't going to work here. You're not going to work here. And then this guy named Chris Oglesby at BMG Publishing, a 30 year veteran in the publishing industry, he's been through it all, signed Craig Wiseman, he signed so many of my heroes and he heard one of my weird songs at a guitar pool. And I was on a Friday and he said, come into my office on Monday, I want to talk to you.

[Bobby Bones]

You were playing it?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I was playing at this guitar pool. I just got ready.

[Bobby Bones]

But now you're singing though. This is the first time you said you sang.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, I'm singing at this point.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

So, you know, I've quit my job. You know, I've been waiting tables for three years. I've had to start singing, I've had to start learning how to sing during this waiting table.

[Bobby Bones]

Where did you sing?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

The first time I ever sang was at Bluebird Cafe. Yeah, well, that's a heavy place to

[Bobby Bones]

sing for the first time.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

It really Is. And it was. It was a big moment for me. I was like, you know, you're doing this. You quit your job, told everybody you're going to be a songwriter, you're at Bluebird Cafe. It's time to go.

[Bobby Bones]

What was that night?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

It was like, in their boxing terms, it was like, ding, ding, ding. It's time to.

[Bobby Bones]

Was it. Did you put your name in?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Did what?

[Bobby Bones]

Did you have friends that were there?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I had a friend that invited me to be part, you know, not part of the round, but he, like, let me take his spot for one song.

[Bobby Bones]

Invited you in?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Just invited me in as a guest.

[Bobby Bones]

Were you nervous going into it?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

So nervous. I was terrified. And, you know, but I did it. And that was the first place I ever sang. And then I found myself going after that moment. I would sign up for any open mic night at the Commodore. I played at the Commodore Grill that holiday in place. Like a Debbie Champion. She's my champion. She, like, had me in so many nights to come in and play, just to, like, start developing, like, some kind of confidence to perform in front of people. Not to be an artist, but just to go to the listening room and play a song and have an impact on somebody. And then eventually I started getting, you know. You know, I went to Puckets, like, every night and played their writer's night. I would sign up for everything I could. And while I was waiting tables and doing all that stuff, and that's where, you know, I really kind of learned to at least begin to sing. And. And I didn't. I still thought, like, I don't have a voice. I'm just singing. I have a songwriter's voice. I have a voice that's just good enough to sell the song in my mind. That's what I was telling myself. And. And I went to this guitar pool. I got invited to it at BMG through some mutual friends. Like, I said, played that song. Chris invited me in on Monday, and he said, man, that song you played, I just. I was blown away by it. And I think you're seven years ahead of this town. And I've been around this town a long time. And I just. I think you're. You're making great music, but it's going to take a while for this town to catch up to it, I believe, like, seven years. And I was like, God, that's so long. And he's like. And I was like, oh, well, thanks for the advice. And he was like, no, see you in seven. Yeah. He was like, no, I want just to tell you how serious I am. And he pressed enter on his laptop and a publishing deal printed out from a printer behind him.

[Bobby Bones]

That really happened.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Really happened. And he turned around, pulled it out and put it on the table. And he's like, for the love of God, don't sign this right now. This is. You take this to your lawyer. Get this properly brokered. But I just want to let you know, this is what I see in you. I think you're going to change this town. And this is how serious I am about it. And I don't know if you're getting a lot of these. I hadn't gotten zero. And. And I was like, okay, cool. I'll think about it. And he. I was like, oh, my God. You know, and, you know, he's like, my plan is to put you in the rooms with the greatest songwriters in this town, because I think you. You could be. He said, you're going to be a hall of famer.

[Bobby Bones]

Did you believe he felt that way?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I did be. Only because he was Chris Oglesby. Like, if anybody else told me that, I'd have been like, you are full of it. Like, but it's Oglesby. Like, he's seen all this. Like, he. He signed and developed Wise Men. He signed. Like, he's all these writers that, you know, I would have killed to got in a room with. So. So I did believe him, but I was like, that's. That's wild. But okay. He's like, but it's going to take a while, but we're going to get you there, and I'm going to. I'm going to help you in any way I can. And he did. And sure enough, he just started. I signed that deal like, a week or two after that.

[Bobby Bones]

The Bobby cast. We'll be right back. From executive producer Taylor Sheridan, a new era of Yellowstone begins in the new CBS original series marshals. On March 1st. Casey Dutton is back, and he's teaming up with an elite unit of U.S. marshals to bring range justice to Montana. With the Yellowstone ranch behind him and a new team at his side, and Casey will balance family and duty as he faces his biggest fight yet. Lou Grimes stars in Marshalls March 1 on CBS and streaming on Paramount. Plus, This is the Bobby cast. Did him seeing that in you help you see that in you a little more?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, his belief in me was like, fuel. Like, it was so much fuel. And he kind of became, in a weird way, kind of a father figure for me in this town. He may not like to Hear that? But, you know, he became like family. He came to my dad's funeral. You know, he showed up, right? You know, because this is 2016. My dad died in 2018, so I spent a couple years writing with everybody. Writing 200 songs a year, doubles, you know, two songs a day, three songs a day sometimes. And I play my dad all my demos because he was, like, such a great, you know, resource for criticism. Like, red light, green light. It wasn't like he was going, you should change this on the chorus. He's just going to be like, wasn't

[Bobby Bones]

offering you tips on the bridge.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, not at all. Cut the bridge, dude. But, yeah, he. He was such a great resource for that. And I'd play him all my demos and. And, you know, he loved Chris because he took a chance on me. I remember him, like, shaking Chris's hand and like, thank you for taking a chance on my boy. You won't regret it. I remember him saying that, like, I was like, shut up, dad. And because he had. My dad had so much belief in me. Like, it was like. It was an unhealthy amount of belief in me at the time. Like, I. I was like, you're just. You're just my dad, and you're just very biased, and it's very sweet of you, but it was really, like a. An insane belief he would tell me these things. And it turns out he was right. Like, 100 and Chris. When my dad died, you know, Chris kind of, like, swooped in and became the. Kind of like the. The coach in the corner after the corner man died, like, when my Mickey was gone. Like, you still have to have somebody there to hold a bucket for you to spit in. And Chris was that guy. And. And when he. My dad died, like, my dad used to, you know, tell me, like, well, why don't you just sing these songs? Because I was so new to singing and so insecure about it, and I'd be like, dad, I'm a writer. I. I write the songs, someone else sings them. That's how this works. You know, my publisher didn't sign me to sing songs. They signed me to write songs. And he's like, okay, whatever, dude. You sound great. And I thought I sounded not great. And. And I had this song called I'm a Song that I written, and I put it out, you know, a couple years ago, and it's really changed my life as a song. And he heard me play that song, like, a week after I wrote it, and he recorded it with his phone, and. And he he told me, like, stephen, that's my favorite song I've ever heard. And I was like, I mean, once again, I think you're just being biased. And he's like, no, you really need to listen to me. That, that song, like, changed me.

[Bobby Bones]

It's.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

It, like, really, it's my favorite song ever. And I was, okay. It's weird. And then he died like a little over a month or so after. How did he die? He had a pulmonary embolism, a blood clot in his lungs, and yeah, he was 59 years old. He wasn't supposed to die.

[Bobby Bones]

So there was nothing leading up to that.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, he had been diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis about six months prior. And that might have been like something that was associated to it, but could have been. There's like three or four different factors that could have caused it, you know, the doctors say, but that was most likely at least an attributing factor. And it was. That's a very serious illness. And we had gotten that diagnosis about six months before he passed. And it doesn't kill people in six months by any means, but that was like a freak thing. And he died quickly. Nobody dies quickly from that. And I said goodbye to him on an iPhone 8 in the middle of Kentucky on the side of the road.

[Bobby Bones]

What do you mean he called you?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

My sister did. And my, you know, I, I was writing in Texas on this artist writers retreat, and my sister said, we're. Dad's not. He's having some serious issues. We're. We're taking him into the hospital. He's got to get an operation. And he went and got an operation and he texted me that night. He's like, stephen, I almost, you know, I think, you know, almost. They almost got me last night. He was joking around about it and he was feeling really good and I was flying, beelining at home to go spend the weekend with him in the hospital because he was supposed to be released in like two days. And, you know, I was just gonna go hang out with him and make his weekend better. And I'd just gotten in and it was 9 o' clock in the morning and my sister called me hysterically and she said, you have to get here now, and I don't think you're gonna make it. You better start driving. And, you know, I, I started driving like 100 miles an hour. And it's in southern Indiana, it's about three and a half hours away. I thought, man, I can make it. You know, I didn't. I was in the middle of Kentucky. And she called me and she said, answer your phone now or. Or you're not going to get to. And I pulled over on the side of a highway on the shoulder of a road and we said our goodbyes and it was terrible. Obviously. It was like the worst day of my life. And his last words were, write a good song for me, Stephen. And he said for I love you's. And he was gone and. And I just. I about tore my steering wheel off the car. I almost like destroyed the whole car. Like I was so angry at God, I was so like angry at him. Like how dare you die on me like that. How dare you like leave me like in this moment like you know, which was so selfish self centered of me to think. But he had no clue what he just did in that moment. I remember saying that out loud. I was like, you have no clue what you've just done. And that's where all of this started. And that song, I'm a song. My first performance as an artist, you know, really was at his funeral. I sang that song at his funeral and. And it was. That's when I knew everything was about to be different.

[Bobby Bones]

And how hard was that? I had to speak at my mom's funeral and I broke down and. And it was hard for me to get through it. And I got. I'm not a big sun from above guy almost. If I can't touch it, it's hard for me to believe it almost. And I was speaking at my mom's funeral and I was having trouble talking as one would. And it was. It felt a little more violent than crying because it wasn't. My eyes weren't wet. I was really struggling. And I'm not an emotional guy, not generally. I, you know, I've kind of killed the uppers and the lowers. You know, just being a trauma kid. You don't want to have to go through the crap. So you don't let yourself fall that low so you can't get that high. So I just even line. Yep. But I. It was really taking me over. I didn't expect to have it happen. And I'm talking and I'm breaking down and I'm having to just pause and there's a phone that rings in the audience. I guess it's not. Everything's an audience to me in the.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

That's so, that's so weird that I

[Bobby Bones]

called that an audience.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, it's not weird. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And so there's a. There's a phone that rings and it was a ringtone of bad bad Leroy Brown Bad bad Leroy Brown Baddest man in the whole. And that was one of my mom's favorite songs. And when that song hit, it just kind of zipped me up. Focused in a really organic way. But like, something happened there. It was that song, that guy. I didn't even know that guy. He was like a friend of an uncle or something. That song played out loud. And again, I'm just not a big sign guy, but if I were, that would have been a freaking sign.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

And I got through was one of my finer performances and. But I remember just thinking, like, I don't know, man, like something happened right there. I don't know what happened right there, but something happened right there. Do you believe in that kind of stuff?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, yeah, I have no choice not. But not to at this point, like, the evidence has become overwhelming. I think God knew I would need a real smack in the face with a two by four of evidence. I wasn't, you know, I'm kind of a natural born skeptic. Scientists, Scientists generally are, you know, that's why they become scientists and. But yeah, you know, when I. When I sang at his funeral.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, that was my point. Did you get through it without crying?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I did. And I don't know, some kind of strength from some other place showed up that moment because. Yeah, there's no other reality in which I wouldn't have completely broke down in the middle of that song in front of that.

[Bobby Bones]

His favorite song.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. And it's, you know, my song I wrote. And we had the lyrics on the program of the song just because that's how much it meant to him, because he was a song and. But no, I. I went up there and I spoke about my father and I was the only one that spoke about him. My siblings were just devastated. And so I kind of had to speak on behalf of. Of all my siblings because they literally couldn't, you know, so I had a lot of pressure on me as the big brother to be big brother. So there was that too. But, you know, I had some. Some kind of like an armor, like. Like some kind of emotional armor. Just for a moment, not for long.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, that's what I felt like an emotional armor. I didn't have the words to say it like that, but when I heard that song, I had an emotional armor.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. And fast forward like, you know, quite a few years now. I. Well, I'd say fast forward. Two weeks after he died, I was playing this songwriter festival in Deadwood, South Dakota. And for About a year, I'd been playing this cover of Stand By Me in my living room in this weird way. It was this kind of. You know, that song haunted me because of the movie as a kid, and I was always just like, somehow attached to that song. So I started just playing it. And I didn't know why, but that song was kind of preparing me for, I think, something like my. The loss of my father. I think it was. I was creating a. It's kind of creating a portal with a song. I didn't know it at the time, but I was kind of inventing one. And, you know, two weeks after he died, I get invited to the Black Hills of South Dakota to play. And they asked me to play a cover. And I was like, completely. I hadn't slept in, like a week, and I was in terrible shape. But I went anyway just because I was like. Had nothing to lose. I was in really, really, really bad state. And I played that song, Stand By Me. I'd never performed it, really, in front of anybody, and the whole place went crazy. But the portal part of it was like. It opened up this portal on stage. Like, it felt like my dad was a little kid on my shoulders. It was like this reversal of roles, kind of a weird energy exchange. And. And that's when everything changed. You know, I felt this crazy amount of emotion and almost lost it during it, but I didn't. But, you know, I didn't expect it to have the effect on the people that it had. I just went up there to play it and it. And then in that. In that moment between singing at my dad's funeral and two weeks later singing at. At that festival, that's when I knew I was no longer just a songwriter. I was like this, you know, back to, you know, the car. Like, you don't know what you started here. Like, you know, that's when it all became really evident. And I. And I went on a mission to kind of keep him alive, because that did, in the weirdest way for me personally. It literally resurrected him for a few minutes. And I kind of started chasing that feeling like a drug. And then you fast forward. Like, back in November of last year, I played Stand by me at the CMAs. And, you know, that song is. It's Changed My Life.

[Bobby Bones]

Do you think that'll be a song that you will always play, or do you think that'll be a song that eventually you go, ah, it's a cover. I think I'm gonna retire that one?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

No, it's. That song has transcended anything that I've. Any plans that I have. It's like. It's been like a gift from God.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, the way that place erupted that night at the CMAs, and it was special. And I'm so jaded. I've seen everything. But there have been a few of Those over my 15 or so years here. Like Stapleton doing that with Justin Timberlake, like you doing Stand By Me. There are only a few of those, and that was one of those. Wow. And I think you've probably heard that right from.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, I have from time to time. But honestly, I don't remember the experience back to the emotional story.

[Bobby Bones]

You don't remember it?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I don't at all. I don't remember any of it. And I still haven't watched it, and I don't think I ever will. I've seen clips of it, of course, online. But is it because you want to

[Bobby Bones]

remember it like you remember it?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. Not remembering it at all. And. And I. Back to the emotional shield, like you asked about. I'm just kind of putting this together because you brought it up, you know, singing that song. I'm a song at the funeral. Yeah, it was the same shield that night at the CMAs, because there's no reality in which I should have, like, just completely lost it on that stage. Playing that song with the history behind it and the. The momentous nature of that particular opportunity and experience. So, yeah, it really. It was a lot. And I think that's the reason why I don't remember it. I don't really remember singing that song at my dad's funeral either. I know I did it and. But yeah, there's like. I think your, you know, your body or your mind or your spirit or something bigger, like, finds a way to kind of protect you temporarily from it so you can just get through it because. And that's what tells me and shows me that this is all bigger than me. Because the point wasn't for me to, you know, have this crazy reconnection with my father that night. The point was for my father to show up in that room and connect with everybody else but me. And I just was more or less the transmitter, and that's. That was the goal. I knew he was going to show up, but I didn't know he's going to show up like that.

[Bobby Bones]

All right, final three questions. I love Gary. It reminds me of my hometown, like, people in my hometown. I just feel like that's a song for people to grow up, you know, around Hard working blue Collar people.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

When you write that song, what was the intention?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, it's, it was rooted in a tragedy and the intention was to celebrate those blue collar people. That was, that became the, you know, the motive. But it started with a memorial sign on the side of the road of a highway. I was driving down and driving home and I saw this sign and it said, in memory of Gary blank blank. I won't mention their name for their privacy. And there was a picture of a boy that couldn't have been maybe 16 years old in high school. And I would guess that he passed away on that highway in a car accident perhaps. And you know, I couldn't help but think in that moment, like, as sad as that was, and I really felt the heartbreak for the family. Like you see memorials like that all the time, but for some reason that one just really hit me. And the way like the trees were growing around it, it was heartbreaking to look at. And, and I said, there ain't a lot of boys named Gary these days. Like, because it was a young boy, like 16 years old named Gary. And I was like, man, I bet that kid can fix anything, you know, I bet like, you know, every. And I started thinking about the Gary's that I grew up with and because I grew up in a body shop, a body shop full of Gary's, not the name Gary, but, you know, the metaphorical Gary. And I started thinking of Gary as like a endangered species or like how Jane Goodall studies primates. Like, look at it kind of from a naturalist perspective and you know, if what is a Gary, what are the attributes of a Gary? And you know, it occurred to me, you know, if there ain't a lot of boys named Gary these days, that our Garry's are endangered, they are going extinct. And you know, like, what happens if there's no more Gary's? Like, I started thinking about that world, a world without Gary's. And like, you know, because technology is advancing very fast and it's very happy to perhaps leave the Gary's behind, I don't think Silicon Valley cares about Gary. And at the end of the day though, there's still electricity to be ran and there's still septic tanks to be tended to and there's still plumbing to be done and, and there's still so many Gary's that actually make the world go round. Like, you know, I mean, iPhones and all that are cool. But when life gets real, like you're going to need a Gary when your H Vac blows in the middle of the summer, in August, you know, chat GPT ain't going to do nothing.

[Bobby Bones]

I can't make a Gary.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, but, yeah, exactly. And I started to think about all of those scenarios and then I got deeper into the Gary, the character so to speak. And you know, Gary's are fixers, you know, yeah, Gary may be a mechanic but I bet Gary also, if a pipe blows in his house, I bet he fixes that too. And I bet, you know, I bet he built his own shed. I bet you know he can fix a lot. He can do a lot of things. And the reason why is because he's had to. Not because he wanted to be a plumber, not because he wanted to be an electrician. He grew up in a world that was broken and he had to learn to be a fixer. And so you know, art, I think my favorite art comes from broken places. And fixers are products of brokenness because they've been around so much brokenness in their life that they just want to fix it. Like you know, you get it, you can go. Even doctors are kind of like an advanced Gary because usually something kind of affected some kind of brokenness, made them want to be a fixer. And but you know, you get down to the, the under celebrated hero that is the Gary, the one that kind of shows up to your house, gets your life back on track when it's literally off track, like it's in a bad state. You know, if your septic tank blows, I don't know if you've ever.

[Bobby Bones]

No worse state than that.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, like you need, you need, you're in a state sometimes two Gary's, let's be honest, you're gonna need more than one Gary. But, but when Gary comes to your house and gets it done, he leaves and you pay Gary and you never see him again and you probably don't think about him again. But that dude literally just got your whole world back in order. And Elon Musk did not. Nothing against Elon, but you know, and, but we celebrate some of these other people that I feel like are over celebrated and don't really get people's lives back on track at all. And you know these Gary's are all over the world, you know, these little micro superheroes just getting everybody's life back on track and with fear of being forgotten forever. And so if you can, you know, show me a 10 year old Gary, we will bubble wrap him, we will protect him. Let's take a quick pause for a

[Bobby Bones]

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[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Madam President, the sale at Denver Mattress.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Steven Wilson Jr.]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Bobby Bones]

And doctor's choice.

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[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Financing. We've got 60 months, no interest, and free shipping.

[Bobby Bones]

Now we're talking. This is an all hands on deck scenario, people, but hurry.

[Podcast Announcer]

The extended President's Day super sale at

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Denver Mattress ends soon.

[Bobby Bones]

And we're back on the bobbycast. Something we do here is guests will bring an album that has really meant a lot to them and kind of talk about why. And I know you have one in front of you here if you want to. Yeah, pick that up and kind of tell me what it is and why you chose that one.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Houses of the Holy.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, pull that mic back. Pull that mic back to you.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

There you go. Sorry, I'm doing Houses of the Holy. Yeah, this is.

[Bobby Bones]

That's a Led Zeppelin album, right?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yes, this is Led Zeppelin's. So you got 1, 2, 3, 4, Zippy's. It has to be their fifth record, I think. So they put out a lot of records by then, so they were a very well established band. And you know, this album, it's an eight song record, but it feels like a 12 song record. The songs are longer and it takes you on a journey. That's what I love about it so much. I love music that takes you on a journey, like an Odyssey and Jimmy Page and the whole band, like John Paul Jones and John Bonham as a rhythm section. The rhythm section work on this record is. Is unlike anything I've ever heard. When I first heard this record, it blew me away.

[Bobby Bones]

How old were you when you first started listening to that record?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Probably 15 or something like that. Yeah, As a kid. And I just remember, like, how was this made? Like, like if this was made today, this would blow my mind. And, you know, they didn't have a lot of the technology you know, we had at our disposal then, like, this band. If I was paying. If I paid 20 bucks to see this band play this, this would have just destroyed me. And this album, what I love about it also, the. It pulls me into the room. Like, I'm in the room with these guys. When I listen to this record, I'm like, at the show. There's not a lot of records that do that for me. I feel like this is some of Robert's better writing too, just, you know, lyrically, but just the arrangements, the musicality, the way the songs flow into each other. It is without Dud. It is Dudlas all the way through Michael Dudlas. It is. It really is. And I. I just think it's really, really special. You know, it's got kind of a weird cover.

[Bobby Bones]

It does. Does have a weird cover.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. But, you know, the. The artistry that was put into it is just profound. Like. Like every song, when you go, you know, from song remains the same. I think that's the first one. And then it, you know, the crunch. Oh, my gosh. By the time you get to the crunch, you just, like, you're lost. And. Yeah, there's so many like it. Just over the Hills and Far Away was what made me. There's one of the songs that made me want to be an acoustic guitar player. And really Jimmy Page. I don't think I've spoken enough about his influence on my guitar playing because he played in a lot of open tunings and he had this crazy right hand, but he was also like an orchestrator on the guitar. He didn't just play guitar. He played, like, orchestrations on the guitar. And he, you know, he was a composer, he wasn't a guitar player. And I feel like all that's really evident on this record. And I find, yeah, it's. It's extremely listenable. That's what I love about it. Like, I can listen to this record anytime, anywhere, whether I'm getting my teeth cleaned or whether I'm getting. Or I'm going on a drive or whether I'm playing cards. There's not a lot of records that I can do that, you know, I love, like, sad song, sad song records, but I just can't listen to them all the time, anywhere, any time of the year. And this one is that. It's like. It's everything I'd ever want to be in a band. It's like, I think, the highest bar, you know, if this band came out today, if, you know, if this record was made Today and came out today. I would. It. Would you need a shovel to get my jaw off the ground. And. And I just. I think it's incredible that they made. They made this when they made it with just, you know, the four of them. And, you know, they, they set a bar for me as a musician and in bands and all my bandmates, like every bandmate I've ever been in with, in a band with. For a long period of time in my band now, they are all obsessed with this record. It's like. Or this band especially. It's. It's like this is, this is the bar. And we are. We're not even coming close to it. But I also see you got the Weezer Blue album, which is one of my favorite records. My close second. Like, I was, honestly, I was in a tough. It was a tough little fight between these two. But I'm sorry, I think this kicks blues out ass. But Blue honestly changed my life. Me too. I heard My Name Is Jonas on the radio one time and I, like, I was so angry that I couldn't hear it again. I was like, where do I find this song? How do I find out who this band is? And. And I started watching him TV incessantly just to try to see if they would come up again. I never saw this My Name Is Jonas song. And then this video for this song called the Sweater Song came on and I was like, so I hadn't heard that yet. And I liked that just as much. It was so quirky. The video was so, like, creatively shot. And everything about the song was just amazing to me. And I told my dad, I need to get some notebooks from Walmart. And he was like, notebooks from Walmart? He's like, okay. And I was like, you take me to Walmart. I had like, no money. And even back then, like, CDs were like $25 and I had no money. And $25 was. There's no way my dad was going to give me $25. I just knew that for a fact. But he would buy maybe a notebook or something for me. And I, I said, you know, can I have five bucks to buy a notebook? He took me there. We went to Walmart. And I don't care that Walmart knows this. I used to work for them at their distribution center, but they got their money's worth out of me, I'll tell you that. And you got a cd. I went in there, I stole that cd. I went in there, I told my dad, I'm gonna go in and get a notebook. And I went in and I spent the next 15 minutes. I've never stolen anything in my life ever. Like, my dad hates thieves. And I. You know, it was always just like the cardinal sin to him was theft. So I knew, like, if I got caught, like, the most supreme ass beating ever was gonna come behind it. And it was worth. I was like, don't care. I'll die for this. I got it. I'll go to jail for this. I'll go to boys school. I don't care. And I went in there and I got, like, a magazine and I figured out a way to stick it in there. And I just, like, walked out of there, like, you know, like, I own the place. And just walked right out with that cd. You know, they had that long little plastic thing on it, like, just, you know, just fearlessly and got out of there with it, walked to the truck. I couldn't believe I got it. I was like. And I went home and I wore that CD out. Like, it just. It changed my life. Like, that was. Yeah, those. These two records, really.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, it's why I wear my glasses like this.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

I had a guy that I saw was cool, but could also care about learning. And I was like, oh, he's cool. He's smart.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, the nerd rock.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. And so Buddy Holly and Rivers Cuomo, and I finally met them. I was working on American Idol. I'd worked on there for four years, and they had come to do a finale. I don't really get nervous meeting people, but you get nervous meeting people that you loved as a kid. And they had parked the bus outside the soundstage. And so it was a couple hours they had done rehearsal. And so I went down to a record store and got this in case I was able to run into them. And so I was like, screw it, I'm going down to the bus. Cause I had some time and I went and knocked on the door. Rivers was nowhere to be found. And they were super inviting, but it was three of them, not Rivers. And they were like, come in. I said, hey, I work on the show. And so I was like, I don't want to hold you guys, but would you guys mind signing this? And, you know, they all sign it, but still above River's head, there's no signature. And he's the guy that, you know, made me feel like I could be cool because he wasn't cool, but he was so cool. And I see the back of the bus, the door opens and Rivers is back there. Like the sink or something. And they're like rivers. And I'm like, oh, here we go. This is the moment I'm gonna meet Rivers Cuomo. And he walks up and goes, walks back to the back. And I was like, yeah, that's all I needed. That's all I needed. You know, I didn't expect much, I didn't get much, but it's all I needed. I was able to meet him again later, but it was super cool. So. Yeah, I love that record too. That's awesome.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, that one and Pinkerton right behind. It was big too, but it wasn't

[Bobby Bones]

respected at the time.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Now people love it.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, I love Pinkerton back then, but

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

people hated On Pinkerton when it came out so much. I thought it was the most punk rock follow up record. I was like, hell yes.

[Bobby Bones]

We can do the Weezer hour here if we wanted to. Listen, I've kept you long enough. I was going to end with this. Good. I was going to show you a picture because I'm a fan of your music, just generally speaking. And I was telling you, one of the guys on my show, I said, hey, we've never had Stephen Wilson Jr.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

In.

[Bobby Bones]

And he said, yeah, we have. I said, I swear to God we haven't, because I'm a fan. And then he showed me this picture of you playing in my studio.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I played with Lee.

[Bobby Bones]

It's you and your wife.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

That is me.

[Bobby Bones]

You played at the.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

That's my guitar.

[Bobby Bones]

That's you playing with your wife on my stage in my studio.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah. So I have been here. Yeah, you're right.

[Bobby Bones]

I was blown away. I was like, what? He goes, yeah, that's Lee Nash's husband.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

I was like, what?

[Bobby Bones]

And he said he played with her.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I was her guitar player for four years. That's, you know, I learned so much about performing from her. Watching her just had the best seat in the house. And yeah, we met before.

[Bobby Bones]

When you came in at first you were like, hey. I said, hey, good to see you. I definitely didn't say nice to meet you because I didn't know if you had know we had met briefly then.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, I was in the same boat. I was like, he probably. I remember doing that, but I was like, I was. I'm kind of like a no in that particular situation, but kind of a nobody.

[Bobby Bones]

But I don't think I would ever treat anybody coming in like a nobody

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

like having a negative experience. No, I know my role in that experience, though. Like, I'm Just kind of like a, you know, side player. Get your guitar, keep it in tune and get out of here. And well, that picture was really cool

[Bobby Bones]

because I said, we've never had him in. And he was like, he's been in. And it turns out you're playing for your wife. Playing guitar for your wife.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

That's super cool. Well, well, you were really great to her then. And you know, I was. That was before I was really doing much artist. Like I was really just starting the artist stuff. So I was. Those were, you know, those were like the beginning days of all this. So I was in a very, I don't know, premature state as an artist. Still incubating.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I'm still incubating. I think I'll die incubating. Hopefully that's the goal, never to not be incubated.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, stay incubated.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Nike didn't want that slogan. I asked him, do you like this one? I said, no, no, we don't like that one, you guys. And we were talking before you came in, we, you know, talked about the tour and talked about the record. So just a massive fan, thank you for your time. And I have not seen you play live. All my friends have seen you play live and they talk about the boxing ring and how great you are live. A lot of them went with people that were fans and they came away massive fans. Because your live show is. Is that moving? Like it's an experience?

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Well, yeah, it's.

[Bobby Bones]

So I've heard. I haven't been to a big show. I just saw. I saw you with your wife. That's the closest I've ever been to it.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's a lot louder. And yeah, they're. I know they're. They're very emotional experiences because it's a two way street. The fans that show up are, you know, they are there to, you know, be there. And you know, I feel like if there's anything that happens in those shows, there's a lot of catharsis from me and from them. And it's like this mutual exchange and that's really all it is. And I think maybe people are observing that kind of mutual exchange of catharsis. Catharsis. And yeah, it's this kind of cyclical exchange of energy and it's a lot of love. And it's kids from 70, from 7 to 77. I call them all kids because they are kids and they're incubating just like me. Yeah, exactly. We're all incubating out there. I think we're all kids or just some of us have been around longer than others.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, thank you for coming in. Really appreciate it.

[Steven Wilson Jr.]

Thank you, Bobby. Appreciate you, sir. Thanks for listening to a Bobbycast production.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.