← The Bobby Bones Show
The Bobby Bones Show
MORGAN: Dr. Morgan Talks Marriages & Mental Loads and Olympian Kelsey Talks Motherhood
01:09:04
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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
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- [01:04]
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- [01:47]
Morgan Huelsman
Take this personally With Morgan.
- [01:51]
Shirley Strawberry
Huelsman, we're talking family, relationships, marriages and motherhood. This week. I have on first a fellow Morgan, Dr. Morgan Cutlip. She's the author of the book A Better Share and in it she helps couples navigate the mental load in their relationships and the toll that it takes. And then my friend, Olympian and old softball teammate Kelsey Hunter joins to share how she competes at a professional softball level while juggling a job and motherhood and everything else. Plus the ways we can do better. In the area of women's sports.
- [02:28]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
I'm.
- [02:29]
Shirley Strawberry
Joined right now by a fellow Morgan, but a Dr. Morgan cutlet. She is known for balancing motherhood, being an author and helping others understand relationships better. Thank you for joining me.
- [02:41]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah, thank you for having me.
- [02:43]
Shirley Strawberry
I'm so excited to talk with you because just looking at all of your content, you are really helping a lot of people. And it's funny that relationships are a part of everybody's life but man, do we not understand?
- [02:55]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
We do not get them, do we?
- [02:57]
Shirley Strawberry
No, we do not So I love getting relationship experts on here because we can all use a little bit more help. And I'm going to come at this from so many different angles. All right, we got a lot to discuss here. But to start this, I want you to share your story and how you got into this, where you are now, and releasing the book that you have a better share. Like, what inspired this? Give me this back story.
- [03:22]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Okay, so my story goes very far back. I love it.
- [03:25]
Shirley Strawberry
Give it to us, all of it.
- [03:26]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
So my dad went back to school for his doctorate in psychology when in grade school, and he used to take me to class with him. So I attended some of his doctoral. I don't think they let you do this now, but for some reason, I was probably like six or seven. I would pack a fake briefcase and candy and paper, and I would just hang with him, and it was quite a long drive. And we'd play this game where he would give me almost like a fake case of a family or a kid or a couple. And he would say, how would you help them? What would you do? What do you think's going on? What interventions would you do? And it was just.
- [04:04]
Morgan Huelsman
I don't.
- [04:05]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
I feel like he needed someone to work with in the future. So he's like, I'll just prepare you for this now. But it just became one of my most favorite and treasured memories with my dad. And so I think that started my trajectory. He went on to have a practice and then start creating relationship education courses before everyone was doing that. And I started traveling with him to conferences and speaking engagements. And eventually, as I grew up, I decided to just pursue my own education and follow in his footsteps. And so, I don't know, I think it was maybe when I was a senior in high school or freshman in college, I said, dad, someday I'm gonna do something to help women. And I don't know what that looks like because I don't know what's going on in my life yet, but I know that's what I wanna do. And so we worked together for around 15 years. And then, man, when I ended up having our daughter. So we're like, fast forwarding in time. I had our daughter, Effie, and I just could not believe how motherhood shook my world. I thought I got a degree in Human Development and Family Science, like I should know what I'm doing. And I had no clue. And I was overwhelmed and I was lost. And I knew at that moment, if I was experiencing this, mothers everywhere had to experience something similar. And so I. I knew that at some point I come out of this sort of fog. And at that point I wanted to figure out how to help moms navigate that better. And so that was my first book. But like, the second piece of that experience is that I could not believe how quickly resentment grew in our relationship after kids, and primarily from me toward my husband. And we have a great marriage, and we did then, but just I was like, how come my life changed so dramatically and yours has pretty much stayed the same? And that took us years to navigate. Two kids later, really to figure out a better way to manage this time and the massive amount of responsibilities. And so that really became the fuel or the motivation for my second book, which is a better share to help couples through. Just like modern family, life is relentless, we need more tools to navigate it better.
- [06:19]
Shirley Strawberry
I think having all of the tools to navigate crazy life is so helpful in so many different ways. Let's start on that first path with motherhood and how it shook you and changed you and that inspired that first book. What happened? What was this moment where you realized like, holy crap, I am ill prepared to be a mom. Even though everybody always says you're a woman, so you have the natural instinct to be a mom. You should figure it out. It'll be fine.
- [06:47]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
I think that's what sets us up to be really shook, is that we think it will be intuitive. And for some people it is. For me, it was not, or at least not in the ways I thought it would be. So I think the moment I was shook was almost immediately. I remember, actually our daughter's 11 now, and I told her this maybe the day before I left to come here, and we were driving in the car and I was like, I'll never forget bringing you home and sitting like in the rocker. And I was nursing her and being like, oh my gosh, this is forever. This is forever. And what a massive responsibility and undertaking. And I'm not a real anxious person, but. And I know this is hormones and all the things, but the amount of anxiety I felt after becoming a mom was crippling. And it just remember, and if I had to describe the feeling after, like the scary feeling, it was all these beautiful pieces too, but just almost like a homesickness. And I think it is because what you used to feel comfortable in, what used to feel like home, has shifted because you have this massive new identity that's taking shape and it happens literally overnight. And so, yeah, I felt it right away.
- [08:02]
Shirley Strawberry
I love that you're recognizing and sharing that moment because most of the time, motherhood is shared in not just social media, but in our society as this beautiful thing. And you should want this. And this is so important for you to have, but to share a very real experience. Yeah, this is great. I brought life into the world, but also I'm freaking out and this is not what anybody prepared me for.
- [08:29]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes. And there's research that talks about the changes in, like, for men and for women after kids, like, what affects the relationship. But for women, what they find are like, the two biggest sort of shifts that happen that are really impactful are the feeling of an increase in responsibilities, which is for sure. But then the other is loss of freedom. And I think that's the piece that hit me the hardest, was just, I just was like, oh my gosh, I cannot go to the bathroom without bringing in contraptions or just the simplest things felt really difficult. And I think that was just. It just took an adjustment. And that's what we don't talk about. All the adjustments that we need to make in our life, in our marriage, in our schedules, after kids enter the picture that are normal and everyone has to do it. But I'm like, why is this existing in the dark? We need to talk about this stuff because it's. It can be jarring.
- [09:23]
Shirley Strawberry
So thank you for bringing a light to that and writing a whole book about it. That's awesome. What was the name of that first one?
- [09:28]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
It's called love your kids without losing yourself.
- [09:31]
Shirley Strawberry
I really like that. And I, I did some research on that one. I'm not a parent myself, but it. From what I can tell on the reviews on that book, I feel like it's a very great one, especially for first time moms.
- [09:42]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah.
- [09:43]
Shirley Strawberry
And just understanding that what you're experiencing is really normal. It's not all butterflies and rainbows. If there's anything I've learned in this life, everything is not butterflies and rainbows. Majority of the time.
- [09:53]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [09:54]
Shirley Strawberry
And walking down to your next book, how was that experience for you when, okay, you have this moment of, okay, I'm losing my freedom. I'm now a mom. This is forever. But then also these struggles are happening with your husband and you're trying to navigate all of it at the same time. Walk me through that a little bit.
- [10:19]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
So our situation was unique. So I'm from Ohio, but we were living in Virginia when I got pregnant right outside of D.C. and then my parents. If you're from the Midwest, you know, when you get close to retirement, you move to Florida. So that's the thing. So my parents moved to Florida, and we were pregnant, and my husband's like, why don't we just go move to be close to your family, and we'll want the support and all the things. And I worked with my dad at the time, so we ended up buying a home, completely ripping it down and rebuilding it from a distance while I finished internship. And then we moved to Florida when I was nine months pregnant. So two months after our daughter was born, my husband was relocated to Southern California.
- [11:10]
Shirley Strawberry
Oh, my goodness.
- [11:12]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
It was, like, very intense. And so I ended up staying behind because I just knew, like, when you adjust to a new job, it's just an ordeal. And I was like, I'm gonna stay here. I have my family. You go do your thing, and when we find a house, I'll meet you. And so from around two months to like, eight or nine months or so, we did long distance. So I navigated these early years or not early years, early months of motherhood. But a lot happens in these early months on my own. And I think so when you talk about, like, the struggles in our marriage, like, I'm not sure how clued in my husband was, because we got along and things were fine, but I was struggling, and I was building resentment quickly. And it really had a lot to do with just. I was the only one in the know of what was going on with our daughter. I made all the adjustments because he wasn't around to how I took care of her and adjustments in my own life and schedule. And when we finally reconnected, I think that's when things got tense because I was just regularly frustrated. I was like, like, you don't know what you're doing now with our daughter. Like, just move. I'll take care of it. Which makes things worse because then he didn't jump in as much. And so it took us a while until we got to a place where we could really address some of the stuff.
- [12:32]
Morgan Huelsman
Really.
- [12:32]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
It took me getting pregnant with our son, where I was like, I don't think he's ever gonna be born, because I will hold on to him until I have this sort of reassurance that things are going to be different this time around. So we had to unpack some of that stuff.
- [12:47]
Shirley Strawberry
And when you start to approach that conversation with your husband. Because this also adds in another layer of what we've been taught in our society. For men to not talk about their feelings, to not experience things in the same way that we are, right? That we're taught completely different things to that men's credit in these scenarios.
- [13:06]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [13:07]
Shirley Strawberry
So what happens when you approach your husband and you're like, okay, we gotta break what's happening. We gotta break this cycle. We need to talk about some things.
- [13:16]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah, it didn't go well for a while, if I'm being transparent. And I think a lot of times if I share a piece of content or if people hear an interview or something, or even in my books, I tell a lot of personal stories. Something I get time and time again is it's that I'm relatable and it's because I've lived through this stuff. So I, it. It took us a long time, and it really took me making some changes too, and how I asserted myself. Like, men are taught really to not talk about their emotions unless it's anger. A lot of men are. It has part to do with how our wi. How they're wired, but also a lot of men feel like emotions are like, unnecessary, kind of. It's like, why are we wasting our time here? Let's cut to the chase. So we've got that. But then women are really conditioned. And then in motherhood, it's a necessity for a while to take care of a kid, but to stuff what we need down and to back burner it. And then growing up, we usually receive all these messages around what it means to have needs. Like, we're needy, we're too sensitive, we're dramatic, like too much. And so I had a battle, some of my own messaging and inner dialogue around what it meant to have needs, what it meant to assert myself in my relationship. And so that was like my work. That's part of what I talk about. My first book, this individual piece. And then as I learned to assert them, we had to work on the relationship piece because my husband would say things like, you're so different now. And it wasn't like a compliment, like, you're so different. And I remember saying to him, I'm not different. I'm the same. You're just getting all of me. Whereas before I was keeping it from you because I was worried you couldn't handle it. So I can't go back to that or else we're not going to be in a good place. This is a conversation that moves the needle. If I go back to that, we're not going to be okay. But if you're finding my delivery like something you can't receive, then let's work on how you can receive it and how I can deliver it differently. But also, you got to move through this. And that took some time, but he made adjustments pretty quickly after that. And it was a game changer in our relationship and in how I experience a motherhood, really.
- [15:29]
Shirley Strawberry
I cannot believe how hard those conversations can sometimes be because. Right. You're sitting there thinking in your head, we have to do this. We have to make this better for ourselves. So this is an easy thing. We have to have this conversation. But when you talked about the resentment, there's just so much for both of you that was holding there. And resentment makes it really hard for people to truly navigate because you're holding on to so many things.
- [15:55]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [15:56]
Shirley Strawberry
And so I can imagine having those conversations like you mentioned, and it took time to really pull back like an onion. And yes. Reveal the different layers and work through each one.
- [16:07]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [16:07]
Shirley Strawberry
You had mentioned something in some of your content that was like. And I may be butchering this, so tell me if I'm saying it wrong, but you said the ending of your marriage is closer than you think, and it all has to do with the cycle that you end up being in.
- [16:23]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [16:25]
Shirley Strawberry
Tell me a little bit about that, because I feel like this pertains to what you're talking about here.
- [16:29]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
So it says the ending of your marriage starts sooner than you think. And it's not my favorite type of content to create, honestly, because it's like hitting that pain point. And sometimes it's hard to consume for people, but also people need see the cycle. So it's a tricky thing online, but it's basically when, you know, these sort of small things start to develop in your relationship, like missed opportunities when a partner approaches you to talk about something and then maybe it's shut down or met with defensiveness or dismissiveness. And a lot of times I'm going broad strokes here, but a lot of times it's the woman bringing up the issue, and the guy will respond in one of these ways. And she has two choices, which is to either get louder, and that usually means that he gets pushed away even more. He distances to protect himself. Or she stuffs it down. And then when she stuffs it down, he feels good because he's like, oh, great, I have more peace in my life and I don't have to deal with her emotion or whatever. She's not upset with me. I think if things are good. But what happens over time is she starts to disconnect. She develops that resentment, she starts to pull away. And so things start to shift in big ways in the relationship. Maybe their sex life goes out the window. Perhaps the dynamic Becomes more transactional, less relational, there's more tension in the relationship. And so it's a slow erosion of connection that's happening. And it's almost like couples are missing it. A lot of times it's. But then you get to a place where maybe the kids are grown and you're pretty deep into it and you look at each other and you're like, we grew apart or I don't even know you anymore. And it's cuz there's these slow erosions that we get stuck in. The cycle can also look pretty hostile. But a lot of times it's just this slow sort of disconnecting that takes place for couples.
- [18:21]
Shirley Strawberry
And when somebody recognizes that this is happening to him, this cycle, is there ever a point where it's too late, you can't fix it, or is most of the time, as long as you start to have open, connect like communication and start to discuss what's really happening, can you fix it?
- [18:38]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Now I'm a big believer in marriages that can really come back from pretty dark places. And I've worked with couples through even things like infidelity and major betrayals. So I do think that you can be pretty far gone and still find your way back. But it really requires, requires a commitment to the relationship because commitment is, that is the sort of like peace that keeps you in it when it's terrible. And so if that's not there and both partners aren't like, okay, last, last ditch effort here, let's give it a go. If you can't get both people that place, it can be hard to come back from this. But yeah, I think you can be pretty far gone and still come back. And I think part of it is you've got to identify and disrupt this cycle. And it's just like this unfortunate thing. But also I believe it's the beautiful part of relationships which is that they will stretch us and challenge us to grow. But like the unfortunate part is that a lot of times to break this cycle, somebody has to be humble. Somebody has to be like, okay, I surrender, like we are not going anywhere good being like this, like we have to figure something out and get to that place.
- [19:51]
Shirley Strawberry
Do you feel like too it's both partners? You mentioned the commitment of them wanting to do it. So it really feels like both partners have to be willing to do that. If there is one partner that's not even willing or open to that conversation, is that where the hard part really lies in deciding is this not going to work because of that?
- [20:13]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah, I think A lot of times, one partner is more willing to work on it and the other person is digging their heels in. And it just becomes, at that point, very tricky to navigate. So you can get a professional involved and see. But then there are partners who, like, won't even do that. And so I think where a lot of marriages end up when they're in this cycle, they reach this point is usually when the one person is just, I'm out of resources here and you're not budging. And I was willing to work on it, but if you're not gonna work with me, there's nothing I can do. So it becomes this I'm out of options type of decision, which is really heartbreaking. And I think in my second book, and not all people will be able to work through these things because there will be partners that just dig their heels in. But in my second book, I give a ton of tools and scripts for how to confront front difficult conversations and difficult moments and conversations, because it's a hard thing to navigate when you're in that dark place and when you're stuck and you're locked up together. And so I wanted to spell it out as clearly as possible to try to equip people to move through it.
- [21:24]
Shirley Strawberry
I love that you have that, because having the resources, even when, like you mentioned, if somebody is not budging on, involving a therapist or somebody to mediate, that will give you some more resources, hopefully, at least then you can know that you've tried absolutely everything. At the end of the day, there's also a part of this that I think is involved too, which your book really addresses, is the mental load. The mental load exists for everyone in and outside of relationships. That is just life. That's the experience we have with life. It's busy, it's chaotic. But even more so for partners and people who have kids, you want to talk about adding another layer of that load. You have so much happening. How does this mental load then also affect these partnerships as there's already this underlying cycle happening? And then you also have the mental load on top of that.
- [22:18]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah, I think it just accelerates things. I think this is. It just becomes one major area where there's an opportunity for deep resentment and misunderstanding. And so the mental load, like you said, exists. Everyone has one. Men and women, kids have them, Everybody's got one. But when it comes to home and family life, research shows time and time again, it's predominantly carried by women, even if they work inside or outside the home. And so it exists before kids. But after kids, it increases overnight. Literally, literally overnight. It becomes way fuller after you have kids. And so I think a lot of couples aren't prepared for this. And my sort of, like, theory of understanding it is right after a baby's born, the woman is in that space of just caretaking for the baby. All the right hormones are going. There's actual changes that happen to us, make us more attuned to things, make us able to better regulate when we hear the crying, like, even we can hear different decibels. We can actually hear. I was listening to somebody talk, like, about their husband. Never woke up to you. When they heard the baby, we actually hear a little bit better. So there's all these wild things that sort of set us up to take more on right out of the gate. I always say the. With the mental load, with home and family life, the game is just rigged. We're just not playing.
- [23:41]
Shirley Strawberry
Sounds like it. I never even heard of this.
- [23:43]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [23:43]
Shirley Strawberry
I'm like, it's rigged.
- [23:45]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
It's rigged. And it's like, so. So we're entering into motherhood, and all this stuff's going on. And so we just start doing all of the things. And our partners are, like, nervous. Maybe they're not jumping in, and if we're not get in there, change the diaper, or they're not a partner who does take that initiative really easily, we're set on a path to where the woman in the relationship will just keep doing the things in the dark without any awareness, it becomes invisible. I describe women as the bounty, quicker picker, uppers. Because we are just so absorbent. We go around soaking up all of these tasks, and before you know it, we're like three, four years into having kids, five years into having kids, and we're the ones who were handling everything. And it's not to blame us. It's not to necessarily blame our partners. I don't always feel like that's productive, even though I understand how you could. But we just get to a place where we're so, so saturated. We don't know how we got here. So much of it's invisible. Our partners don't get it. Then we try to explain it, and then they get defensive. Or they might say something like, you just make things harder than you need to, or, I don't know why you worry so much about this stuff. And so that those triggered me, and.
- [24:55]
Shirley Strawberry
I'm not even in relationships.
- [24:57]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
So common. I was on a podcast earlier, and the husband said that, and I was like, oh, my goodness, that's so good. Glad. I'm so glad we're talking about this because it's such a common response. So then you get this layered. I'm as. I'm struggling and I'm overwhelmed and now I am coming to my partner who's supposed to be my source of security and safety and they don't get it and they're minimizing it and so I feel less safe. And so now we're entering into that cycle. Okay, do I get louder? No. I really am struggling or do I stuff it down and try to manage it? And even sometimes women will judge themselves when they get that feedback from their partners. Oh, I guess I am making a big deal out of nothing. Or maybe I am needy. Or maybe there is something wrong with me. And women are already so good at judging ourselves, we just don't need more of that. So I'm trying to remember where the question started, but just like it's so easy to just slide into that pattern and before you know it, we're like in this sort of trench of disconnection that can start to develop.
- [25:57]
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- [26:52]
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- [27:22]
Shirley Strawberry
Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the.
- [27:24]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Founder of Meaningful Beauty.
- [27:26]
Morgan Huelsman
Well, I don't know about you, but, like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age.
- [27:32]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look.
- [27:36]
Morgan Huelsman
Great at any age, Every age.
- [27:39]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about.
- [27:41]
Morgan Huelsman
We create products that make you feel.
- [27:43]
Shirley Strawberry
Confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty.
- [27:48]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.
- [27:58]
Shirley Strawberry
No, you answered all of that. And I love the different pathways that it went on. And I'll admit, as someone who hasn't had kids yet, and as I've gotten older, my view of having kids, once upon a time, if you would have met young Morgan, should have been like, I'm having a white picket fence. I will have a porch. I will have four children, and life will be amazing.
- [28:19]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah.
- [28:20]
Shirley Strawberry
And Morgan now is a completely different person who's very questionable on, if I want to have kids, what does that look like? What's going to change for me? I'm having very hard questions that I'm asking myself, but the one that constantly keeps revolving is, I will have kids if I have a partner that's willing and able to actually be a partner of having kids.
- [28:43]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
I think that's. Yeah. I'll see on social media a lot of people wrestling with this thing, a lot of women wrestling with the same question. And. Or it will be nasty. Or it'll just be like, this is why I'm never having kids. And that's.
- [28:53]
Morgan Huelsman
Oh.
- [28:53]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Like, that's not a message I want to put out in the world. I believe that becoming a mother is part of why it's hard is because it shines a light on all of these areas. You just have not developed and grown in. And so it's supposed to expand us a marital relationship, supposed to do the same thing. It's tricky when the other person won't do that too. Or. But that's the sort of hard part, but also the beautiful part. So I am, like, pro all of these things. I'm a fan. I also understand it. But I do think the differentiator that younger generations are paying more attention to, which is a good thing, is what kind of partner do you choose? And how involved are they gonna be and how open are they to having these conversations that don't spiral into defensiveness and all the stuff that derails them. But that becomes the piece that can change your experience in motherhood.
- [29:48]
Shirley Strawberry
Very much so. And that was very much where I or I was to. To your point. It started as I'm having all the kids I'm never having kids to now it's I want kids, but I also want a really good partner and the partner has to come first. And if I don't find that then I will be okay with whatever else looks like. But that's more important to me if I'm going to bring kids into the world to have that partnership that really matters. That is talking about the things that you're discussing with the cycles and stuff. It also leads me into another question. And I know this is a little bit different because you primarily work with couples and marriages and stuff, but I would love your perspective for someone like me who is single, isn't married, doesn't have kids. But I want to and I want to find a partner. How do I as I'm getting into these relationships making sure that I'm avoiding that cycle and avoiding and meaning it not happening. Not avoiding it, seeing it and running away.
- [30:47]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah.
- [30:47]
Shirley Strawberry
Is there things that I can do and set up for myself that I can potentially hope that whatever moment in time I do get married, I don't fall into this same pattern?
- [30:59]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes. So I'll say a couple of things. So my dad actually his sort of his main point of interest and his main like body of work is around dating and singles. So he has a book called how to avoid Falling in Love with a.
- [31:12]
Shirley Strawberry
Jerk and that's all I needed.
- [31:16]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes. It is such a good. And it's for men or for women and it's such a good book and it really gives practical things you should get to know about a potential partner to predict what they'll be like in a long term relationship. It's based on tons and tons of research that he, he went through and then he basically organized all that research into five things you gotta get to know about somebody that's predictive in the long term because sometimes what you get in the beginning is like not what you're gonna get later. So how do you figure that out? So I would say that is a really good place to start is like things that you get to know in the early dating time is it's really important you do that with intention and you do it with know how the second piece is. It's funny, I was having a conversation with someone yesterday who's dating and she's actually the editor of my book and she. I'm I can't believe how much it's impacted how I'm showing up in my relationship. And so she's my boyfriend or whatever was over, and we were making dinner and he went to take the garbage out. And just normally I would jump up and I'd be like, no, I'll get that. Like, it's fine. But I'm sitting back and letting him do things. And so I talk about, in my second book, something called Piling on Precedent, which is one of the ways I think the mental load gets really full really fast, which is that early in our relationship, as women especially, we're really good caretakers. And so we like to do stuff for our partners because it feels good, which I think is beautiful. But also when we do the things, at first they appreciate it, and then after that, it's out of their minds. They don't think about it anymore.
- [32:49]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah.
- [32:49]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
And so how you set up the precedents early on in a relationship is like shaping what you're going to own and be expected to do. And we do it, and we're not even aware that we do it.
- [33:01]
Shirley Strawberry
Oh, yeah, you're talking about this now. And now I'm starting to.
- [33:03]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
You think about all the things? Yes, all the things. When my husband and I got together, I remember even early in our marriage, he would work and I'd be working. I was in school and working, and I would go to the grocery store, I'd think of the meals, I'd cook the dinner, and he'd get up to do the dishes. I'd be like, no, babe, I got this. I'm like the perfect housewife or something. And then I remember a few years into marriage, I was doing the dishes, and he wouldn't even fight me anymore. And so is he a jerk, or did we get into this pattern where I pushed him out, I fired him from the job, and so he was like, sure, I'll sit on the couch.
- [33:41]
Morgan Huelsman
While you do this.
- [33:42]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
So we had to walk. We have to walk these things back then if we've set this precedent. So I think think about that when you're dating as setting the standards, setting the expectations, and anything that you take on, you're probably going to own. And if you're not going to want to own that forever, that means you're going to have to walk it back later. So just heighten your awareness to some of that stuff.
- [34:03]
Shirley Strawberry
I needed to hear that. I really did. As someone who is not only a caretaker, but often also very strongly independent.
- [34:12]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [34:12]
Shirley Strawberry
I really like to take care of stuff on my own and take care of other people. So allowing things to happen is really hard for me. So thank you for speaking words into my mind. I'm sure. Also, I'm not the only one that needed to hear that. So I think it's becoming more common, especially as the marriage age changes.
- [34:28]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [34:29]
Shirley Strawberry
And people spend more time alone before they get married. They're stuck in who they are in their ways. And you have to adjust to having a person in your life. So I think a lot of people.
- [34:38]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Needed to hear that.
- [34:40]
Shirley Strawberry
There's another part of this book. We're going back around now. I had to go off that little tangent. Cause I thought it was great. But we were talking about the mental load, the cycle. There's also a part of this that people. Gosh, do not like to talk about. But it's so important because part of a relationship is not just having an emotional connection. It's intimacy.
- [34:59]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah.
- [34:59]
Shirley Strawberry
And when intimacy is lost, that's a huge part that's missing. And you discuss how this cycle mental load can then affect the intimacy in the relationship. Will you explain that a little bit? Because it's just not something people are great at talking about or ever want to bring up. So maybe hearing it from you will give them some reassurance that it's okay.
- [35:19]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes. So it's layered, but in. I'll hit a couple points. So the mental load takes up space in our brains. I call it cognitive real estate. It takes up cognitive real estate. And so what that means is that it crowds out space and energy for other things like peace, presence, patience, regulating our emotions and getting in the mood for sex. Especially for women. Because for a woman to be turned on, her brain really needs to be turned off. And so if we are swirling around with all of these things, it's going to be hard to even think about sex. It's going to be hard to get in the mood for sex. And so that's one piece. The other piece is that if the mental load isn't handled in a relationship in a way that feels good in the partnership. So, you know, she's overwhelmed. She's trying to talk about it. He's like, you make things harder than you need to or gets defensive. She's going to feel invisible, disconnected, unappreciated. All these things in the relationship which is not conducive to a healthy sex life. Being intimate is vulnerable. You have to feel safe in your relationship to get to that place. Especially for women, men, it looks a little bit different, but. And so if the Relationship doesn't feel safe. It's going to affect this part of the relationship. And I often say sex really starts outside of the bedroom. And so we need to expand how we think of it. For the longest time, I would beg my husband to take me out on dates, especially after kids. Maybe, like, he was into it, but he just didn't prioritize it because he, like, feels connected when we just exist side by side. I was like, this doesn't. I've barely seen you. He's like, we're together all day. And I was like, I've not talked to you.
- [37:09]
Shirley Strawberry
It's like the foreplay, right. You're like, this is. There's nothing here. So how am I supposed to be excited?
- [37:16]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes, exactly. But, like, dates were my foreplay. Yeah. And finally when I explained that he's, like, done, it was, like, no convincing at that point. But we have to. We have to understand and expand how we think about getting in the mood for sex, because it's not just what's going on in the bedroom. I think another piece, and I talk about this in the book, is that everybody has two core desires in relationships. To feel loved and to feel safe and secure. And the way we want this expressed looks different. So for women, a lot of times, it's like being pursued, being appreciated, having a partner who's, like, predictably reliant in all the best ways. For men, one of the pathways to feeling loved and secure is through sex. And so, again, like, the game's kind of rigged.
- [38:07]
Shirley Strawberry
We're like, okay, we want you to.
- [38:09]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Be all emotionally attuned and present. And they're like, well, I feel vulnerable until we've. Our intimate life's going well. And so I think it's just helpful to understand these things and these differences so we can maximize relationship outcomes. If I understand, my partner's gonna feel like my husband, he travels all the time. When he comes home from a trip, he needs sex to feel, like, not awkward around me. It's like, how he feels safe. He'll be like, I'm so vulnerable. It's like, aww. And I'm like. And then we'll be. It's like, this is probably too much information, but he's not gonna listen. But we'll be in bed, and he'll be, like, ready to, like, whatever, have sex. And I'll. I'll be like, oh, can we talk about something? And so I'll start a real deep conversation.
- [38:54]
Shirley Strawberry
And he's like, why do you do.
- [38:55]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
That at the worst times? And I've actually talked about this before, and I've heard women be like, I do that all the time. And part of it's because we're wanting, we're entering into something vulnerable, and we need to feel that safety of connection, that security of connection. Whereas our partners are like, well, the sex is how I get there, so, so can we stop the talking? And so I think it's just important for us to understand these differences in order to work through some of this stuff. Not to personalize it, but to have a better relationship.
- [39:21]
Shirley Strawberry
Well, to your point, if the game is rigged, then we have to rig it back. We have to start using different tools.
- [39:26]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
We gotta know. Yes.
- [39:27]
Shirley Strawberry
To fix it.
- [39:28]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [39:29]
Shirley Strawberry
Thank you for talking about that, because I know it's. I'm sure I just know there's people listening. Like, I have definitely done that before, for sure. And Dr. Morgan, I always end these podcasts or the interviews with a piece of advice or motivation or anything on a topic that maybe we didn't get to or something you just really want to make sure people know or hear. Is there something that comes to mind for you that you want to share?
- [39:52]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
I'm really bad at this question, but I'll just the first thing that came to mind was around needs, because I feel we talk a lot about how women have a hard time expressing their needs, but I think men do actually too, because they're supposed to be needless. So a lot of times in our relationships, we have a lot of needs that never get spoken or we have a hard time defining. And so I have a shortcut for identifying what we need. And so I'll offer that. And that's that you think about what you complain about the most. I feel like our complaints are windows to our unmet needs. You probably don't experience this, but a lot of married women do, which is that they will mutter under their breath around the house sometimes when they're at their limit. And so I encourage you to examine the mutterings and what is the common thread, because it will reveal something that you need. And men too. I think a lot of times they'll get maybe gruff or tense, but not know why. So can you take a minute and think about what is it that you're not getting in that moment that's bugging you? And then the second piece is when we express needs in our relationships, a lot of times we do them as complaints instead of owning the need. And I, we often leave out a clear deliverable. So we'll say like this vague, can't you just help me more or can't you be more romantic? Or these sort of vague requests. So encourage people as you define what you need to think about, how you can express it in a way that has, like, a clear desired outcome so that you can maximize your chances of getting the need met.
- [41:28]
Shirley Strawberry
And a lot of what you're saying I totally relate to in some of my relationships that I've had, because it is. It's a. It's an easy back to the cycle thing. It's easy to get in this rotation of constantly. You feel like you're communicating your needs. I have this conversation with my girlfriends a lot.
- [41:43]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah.
- [41:44]
Shirley Strawberry
I'm like, did you actually communicate that or do you think you communicated that? Because those are two different things. And if you think you left subtle hints. I was like, the best thing you will ever do in your life is understand that you have to spell it out. You have to.
- [41:58]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
You.
- [41:58]
Shirley Strawberry
You cannot think. It doesn't just mean men. It means in anything. You have to believe that someone does not understand you unless you say it point blank. This is what I want and need 100%.
- [42:09]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yes.
- [42:09]
Shirley Strawberry
And that's what you're.
- [42:10]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
That's what I'm saying. It's so. It's. If you're not clear, you're really confusing. I asked for romance, like more romance for four years, and then I would get flowers the next week. And actually that's not how I view romance. So I'd be like, oh, thanks for the flowers. And then he'd be offended. And then that would be the end of it because he didn't really understand what that meant and he could have asked more directly. So there's shared responsibility, but absolutely, I did not communicate it. So, yeah, getting clear.
- [42:39]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah.
- [42:40]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Really helpful.
- [42:40]
Shirley Strawberry
I love that so much. Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing all your expertise and wisdom on all the topics. You're wonderful. And be sure to check out her book. You want to give it a little plug?
- [42:51]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Yeah. A better share. How couples can tackle the mental load for more fun, less resentment and great sex wherever you buy books. Yeah. Audible, all the things.
- [43:00]
Shirley Strawberry
I love it. Thank you so much.
- [43:01]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Thanks for having me.
- [43:02]
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- [45:31]
Shirley Strawberry
One of my softball friends from way back in the day. She is known as Kelsey Hunter today, but as I knew her, it was Kelsey Stewart. She's a badass on the softball field and plays for the Athletes Unlimited Softball League now, but she's an Olympian, has played on Team USA and the University of Florida. So just an insane athlete all around, but also a great person. Kelsey, thanks for joining me.
- [45:55]
Morgan Huelsman
Of course. Thanks for having me. I love following your life all on social media. It's been fun.
- [46:00]
Shirley Strawberry
It feels very weird for me now to see both of us in this stage of our lives. And I joked, it's funny. We're connecting back on Zoom, but once upon a time, we were sitting on a bus together and making all kinds of racket, headed to softball tournaments every weekend.
- [46:15]
Morgan Huelsman
Crazy. No, like actually crazy. When you sit back and think about.
- [46:19]
Shirley Strawberry
It, it really is. And now not only are you just an athlete, but you're also a mom and doing just all kinds of amazing things. So I do want them to hear your story and your words. So give us your kind of life as not only just a mom, but a softball player. The whole thing.
- [46:37]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah. So I started playing softball probably when I was about 8 years old. And really what happened was there was like a 10 and under team and they needed an extra player. My parents were like, she has nothing else to do, so, sure, let's go do it. So grew up in Arc City, Kansas, or Arkansas City, Kansas. My senior year, moved to Maze. Played travel ball forever. Like, When I was 13, I started playing 18 gold, which is insane.
- [47:03]
Shirley Strawberry
And that was actually where Kelsey and I became really good friends. We both played on the same travel ball team together, and we both went up to play on this 18 gold team together.
- [47:10]
Morgan Huelsman
We're both young, very young. Crazy. And then I committed to Florida the summer of my freshman year. Going into high school. Freaking again. Crazy. I got recruited, actually. I was in a tournament in New York and I had trip and fell. I bunted trip and fell. And I was still safe at first. And then Coach Walton's like, yeah, she's good. So how that happened. And then went to Florida, won two national championships. Had the time of my freaking life. I started playing Team USA the summer after my freshman year of college and then had been on Team USA all the way to the Olympics. Obviously, Covid happened, so it got postponed a year. Then I've also been playing pro, and now there's this new pro league called Athletes Unlimited. Super excited to be a pioneer of that as well. I have two kids, Husband. Honestly, like, I have no complaints in life. And like, all glory to God for all of that.
- [48:09]
Shirley Strawberry
You have always been on the track of athlete since I've known you. That was always your path and you really never wavered in that. Why do you think that was such a path? And how did you know it so early?
- [48:22]
Morgan Huelsman
Honestly, like, I. I don't really know. Like, I was just good at sports. Like, it was just something that, like, it came easy to me. It's something that I enjoyed. It wasn't like a headache to get me to go do extra things. So I was just, hey, like, you're good at this. So I just stayed on that path. And then obviously, with the help of my parents, like, not allowing me to be distracted from outside things. And really, then it was just like, wow, I really love doing this. And so I just kept going.
- [48:50]
Shirley Strawberry
And after you had done Team USA at one point, were you like, nothing can top this. What am I going to do next?
- [48:57]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, especially whenever it first happened. Like, whenever I was on the first couple teams, we weren't in the Olympics, so I'm like, no, like, I have reached like, the top. I've won a national championship. I've played on Team usa. Like, what is next? I didn't even know there was a pro league. It, like, again, it's like, what is next? What do I do after this Definitely happens. Still happens, but it's fun so far for you.
- [49:21]
Shirley Strawberry
What is your Mount Rushmore of your biggest moments in your life so far?
- [49:28]
Morgan Huelsman
Obviously, having kids, getting married, hitting the walk off for Japan and then I would say going to the Olympics and then winning national championship.
- [49:38]
Shirley Strawberry
So many good things. Like, truly, you have the Mount Rushmore.
- [49:42]
Morgan Huelsman
No, like, actually, like, I. When I. Seriously, when I think back, I'm like, I have been so blessed. Like, God did not skip out whatsoever whenever he I was going through my journey. Like, I feel like I've hit every pinnacle you can hit. Been super blessed to be able to have kids, to be able to raise my kids, to be able to all of these things. I'm like, no, like, I am living a great life.
- [50:04]
Shirley Strawberry
What was it like for you? We see on social media kind of the juxtaposition between men's athletics, women's athletics. What was it like for you in this entire journey? Was there moments where you're like, yeah, this is true. And moments where it wasn't, or give me the breakdown of that from your experience.
- [50:22]
Morgan Huelsman
Oh, yeah, it's all freaking true. Like, it is a struggle being a woman in sports. I feel like there's just like this weird thing where as women, we're supposed to be so grateful. Oh, my God. They gave us the opportunity.
- [50:35]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Wow.
- [50:35]
Morgan Huelsman
We should be grateful. But, like, why can we not demand more at the same time? Like, there was times, like on Team USA especially, like, I Was not being paid to play softball. Like, it was just like a. Oh yeah, I want to do. I want to play for my country. Let's do do it. There's times that I was like grinding to pay rent because I was trying to be a softball player. I was trying to be professional. And like in that sport, like you don't make a lot of money. Like, I think minimum is like $8,000. And it's like, yeah, like how are you supposed to live? And even with this athletes unlimited, like it's a great thing and I think it's going to be a great thing. But the gap between who getting paid the most and who's getting paid the least, that's what we're like. What I'm trying to push for is just one to merge that gap between women's sports. Sports. But then like, we would hope one day, like, I hope when if I have a little girl that she's not struggling to pay rent to play pro sport. Like she can play a pro sport, do what she loves, but also enjoy life. And I feel like there's few. It's like women's soccer, women's basketball, and then after that it's like falls off. And so we have to like, I feel like we, especially in softball, we kind of have to find a way to merge that gap. But merge the gap between men and women would be unbelievable.
- [51:45]
Shirley Strawberry
That is a crazy experience. To think this is the coolest moment of my life. I'm on Team usa, I'm playing in the Olympics, but also I can't pay my rent.
- [51:55]
Morgan Huelsman
No, it's like actually crazy. Like I don't think that people like really have the concept of what happens. I played on team USA for nine years. And so in that time I would say from USA I was pretty paid $20,000 max to like you were working.
- [52:11]
Shirley Strawberry
Other jobs while you were full time trying to be an athlete.
- [52:15]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, still am.
- [52:17]
Shirley Strawberry
So you have a full time job now and you're playing in this professional league?
- [52:21]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I don't have a choice. Like we like literally you don't have a choice. And it'd be so nice to just be able to focus, like train and do all those things. Be a mom and then go play softball. But I cannot afford that whatsoever. Even like with my husband. So.
- [52:34]
Shirley Strawberry
Yeah. So how do you do it right? You have to be in this shape all the time to play. You are a mom, you have to have a job, you're a wife. Like, how are you balancing all of these things and still keeping your Sanity at the same time?
- [52:50]
Morgan Huelsman
No. I tell people all the time, like, it takes a village. So my mom, my dad, my brother, my grandma, my husband, every single person you can think of. It's all hands on. Like, everyone. It's like, we have schedules. It's all. My mom works today, okay? She's out of picture. My sister doesn't work today because she has the kids. My husband doesn't work today, okay? He has the kids. And something that I've learned, like, super early On, I have two kids. They are 11 months and 2 years old. So something that I learned very early on is I will not allow my. Myself to be put in spaces that my family's not allowed. That kind of, like, nicks a lot of things. It's, oh, my kids can't come. Oh, I can't come. Like, you have to provide this space. Like, I'm a working mom, but I will also be a present mom. You want me to do a thing? Okay, can you fly my kids out with me? Because, like, that's the only way this works. And it's been definitely hard. And I think just talking to my friends, they're like, you make it look really easy. I probably should be more transparent about how freaking hard it is of just having a kid losing your body. Like, I had two C sections, so they cut through layers of my body. And then I played four months later, Like, I was tripping a little bit. When I look back, I'm like, you're crazy. But it takes the village for sure. Even when I'm on the road with the. With the girls, they're helping me. Like, oh, yeah, we'll take trace. And then he comes back, 10 stuffed animals. I'm like, what is going on? So it literally takes everyone.
- [54:15]
Shirley Strawberry
I love that. I love that you say that they created this space for you, and that's why you've been able to continue doing it. Detail that experience for me a little bit because I haven't been pregnant before. I know so many women have, though. But to. Gosh, to have two children and then asked to be this professional athlete that can do these things. How was that experience for you? Were you in the safe space to be able to do that? Were there moments where you're like, there's no way that I continue this path?
- [54:48]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, they're so athletes unlimited. Like, their whole goal as so they have basketball, volleyball, and softball. So the whole thing was like, you should be able to have a family. Start that family and then be able to continue to play softball. So I took that to heart. I got pregnant, but then I was the first person to ever get pregnant in this system. So they're like, okay, cool, we'll see you next year. And I'm like, no, I was expecting this money from you. Respectfully, I was expecting to have this income. I was having a baby, like, right in the middle of season, so I couldn't, like, fly out there. I couldn't do all these things. So it's been really cool that I've been someone that's helped them through this process of how we can make it better and do all of these things. Definitely lots of moments where I'm like, is this worth it? Especially in those, like, newborn stages. My child's screaming, I'm up, like, all night. And then I'm like, okay, like, I gotta go work out. There's nothing in me that wants to work out. Like, I'd rather just sleep. Sleep. But again, Athletes Unlimited has been truly great. They provide a nanny for me. They pay child support or child support, child nanny, whatever that is called. Child care. There you go. The child care for them. They, like, get extra room, like, whatever I need. They're, like, super great about it. This year will be the first year that we're going to be, like, traveling everywhere. So I'm interested to see how this is going to go. It's probably going to be working through it again, but, like, I think it's good because it's not just me anymore. There's another girl, just had a baby, so I'm, like, really excited. But training and getting. This is the first year that I've actually had a year to train and get back into shape. So I'm super excited to see where I am this year. I'm, like, pumped. I'm like, wow, this is the first time I've hit and worked out in February. Let's freaking go.
- [56:32]
Shirley Strawberry
Do you feel like maybe having babies was your superpower and now you're going to even be a better athlete?
- [56:38]
Morgan Huelsman
I claim it in the name of Jesus right there.
- [56:41]
Shirley Strawberry
I'm going to believe it for you. I'm also going to for you. I love your perspective of just sharing the realness of this experience, because it is. And I never want to make somebody, especially a woman's athlete, talk just about being the fact that she's a woman and an athlete. But there's just such a drastic comparison of what happens for you versus what's happening for a man and the toll this is taking on your body. But you love the sport so much that you still choose to keep doing it. Talk to me about that passion for softball because it has to be a drive behind so much of this.
- [57:15]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, you talk about, like, women, and you don't want that to be it. But, like, it does take a toll. Even now, we got tiered this year of there's tier five to tier one, whatever that is. And I've been. I've had a baby or been pregnant the past two years. So, like, as much as you don't want that to affect where you're, like, placed and what happens, like, it does affect. And I can't be mad about that. But, like, at the same time, I'm like, how unfair is that? But I. Everyone always tells me, like, you'll know when it's time to retire. Like, you. Like, everything will just. You'll know. And I haven't had that feeling yet. It's been one of those things where I'm like, oh, softballs on. I have five games going still, and it's, oh, oh, that's something new. Let me go try that. And I'm out trying something new to my swing. Or, like, playing catch with my husband, taking ground balls. Like, those are things that, like, still bring me so much joy. And it's almost like, too, like, a little. It's cool for my kids to see. Like, I think that there's a stereotype that kids always watch the dad be a professional, and they watch them work and do all of these things. So it's really cool that my husband is, one, so supportive and two, that my two boys get to watch me in this professional environment and how I work and how I go about business. But then on the flip side of that, get to make them ally in women's sports. So maybe one day, if they're making millions of dollars, it's like, yeah, like, I'll support women's sports. That's what my mom did. I watched they work harder than we do kind of thing. So it's been really cool. And, like, I love that side of it.
- [58:45]
Shirley Strawberry
I was just going to say, I have to imagine your kids are watching you and they're already knowing the superhero that you are because you're their mom. But then on top of it, to watch you go out and crush it on a field, they're like, I don't know a life any different than this.
- [58:59]
Morgan Huelsman
This is what it is. It's, like, crazy because, like, I would go in and I could 30 minutes hitting and be easy. Now Trace wants to go with me, and it takes maybe an hour because he has to hit off the T2. I love it. I wouldn't change it for anything, but, like, it's awesome.
- [59:13]
Shirley Strawberry
So how do you balance this lifestyle and working and being successful in your career and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? You have so many things. How are you balancing it? I know you say it takes a village, but, like, when you look at your life and day to day, how do you make decisions? How are you trying to decide what's best for you and your family and your career?
- [59:34]
Morgan Huelsman
I think, like, knowing what's a priority and to me, like, my boys and my husband are always going to reign supreme. That's my number one focus every single day. And then I go from there. So it's like, oh, okay, like, maybe today I can cram in all of my work. Like, I have really great. I work for a really great company, Target Sports, and they're like, super great about me playing professional, me being a mom, me working and doing all these things. So, like, I work from home, which is like, the best thing ever. And they're so supportive. And I have some great people in my corner with Jeremy Capo and Kenya Lanyard and all these people that really make it where it's like, can you do that? Is it okay? Do you have time for this kind of thing? And it's, listen, you are trusting me to do my job, so, like, I'm going to make sure I do that job starts with my kids, and then it's, okay, I gotta feed my family. And then it's what time I have left is like, for softball, which my husband is like a workout freak. And so it's like, easy for me to want to go work out because I'm like, he cannot look better than me. That's not how this works. And then you fit it in from there. And I feel like those pieces of it, I can. My family can join in with me and do all those things.
- [60:47]
Shirley Strawberry
Yeah. And you're creating not just this environment for what you mentioned as their mom playing, but you're also creating a very healthy lifestyle for them of this work life, balance one and two. To always be working out. You just bring them along for the ride. And heck, they're gonna be squatting before. More before you know it.
- [61:03]
Morgan Huelsman
Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, they. Every time I go to the gym, my son's always. I go work out, and he'll, like, grab his bag and I'm like, this is fantastic. But he just goes to the swimming pool. But whatever. We'll talk about that a Later date. He's only two.
- [61:15]
Shirley Strawberry
What do you hope to see as you continue and play in this professional field? What do you hope to see for women's sports change in the coming years, coming decades?
- [61:24]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I, like, obviously the number one thing would be, like, women are playing for millions of dollars. That would be the goal is just, oh, like, I can stay on this track of sports. And sure, there's commentating, there's women in sports that aren't playing sports, but I would love for that to be a thing. It's, oh, if I work hard enough, like, I can play for. I can support my family while doing something I love. I can travel the world while doing something I love. So that would be the number one goal. But then I think to even expand on that, would there be, like, there's programs in place for women that get pregnant of. Here's a trainer that works like, they specialize in women that are pregnant so you, like, don't get out of shape and doctors that help you through these things. Because there are, like, things that happen in pregnancy that are out of your control and labor that happens all these things out of your control. But I. It would be deeper. The support system would be deeper in that and it would go across the board of all women's sports. But that. That's like a whole different topic because then it's like, now we, like, are fighting for parental leave or whenever we have kids in, like, normal life. So this is just like, a small part of it. But I do think that if we can expand that in the sports world, it trickles down. Like, women like, these women that are always on TV and people are always looking up to. They're demanding this. And then it's like, the next one, they're demanding it.
- [62:47]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
And frick.
- [62:48]
Morgan Huelsman
I mean, I am too. Like, I'm worthy of that. And so I think just, like, the support gets deeper and it's more. It's not just women supporting women. We have males and we have dads and we have professional athletes. We have all of those things. So I would obviously say the million dollars. And then after that, the support, how deep it goes when you go out.
- [63:09]
Shirley Strawberry
And you do these things like Team USA and you're in the Olympics. What was the most, like, drastic differences you were seeing competing as a woman versus competing as a man?
- [63:20]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, like, things like just flying commercial and they, like, this is the story I tell everyone because this was the first time that it, like, hit me. Because as a woman in sports, it's like, just something that you Go with the flow. You do what you're told. You get on the commercial flight, it's at 6am, you play at 7, whatever that looks like. Like we just did it. But my husband was my child care person when I had my first son. And we get on a flight, his flight gets delayed for. We were on two separate flights. It like they messed up. But anyways, we're on two separate flights. So I get on the first one, we're in North Carolina, we drive from the airport, it's two and a half hours. My husband flights gets delayed like three or four hours. He lands and then they get in traffic. So the instead of a two hour, it turns into a five or six hour bus ride. And he's really confused and I'm like, about what? He's like, first off, I'm delayed. What? Second, where's the police escort? I said, I'm sorry. What? He's like, I would never get on a bus without a police escort. Like, I'm confused. And you guys don't have a chartered flight. I'm what this is, I'm like, no, this is women's sports. Like this is what we deal with all the time. Yeah. And so that just put everything into perspective. And then he's like over here, like telling his friends, like, this is bull crap. That what they have to deal with. And so I think like they don't understand because they don't go through. And so that's probably one of my favorite stories. But that is probably like night day. Like I only got a charter flight when we made it to the biggest thing in college. Meanwhile he, they could drive two hours to Gainesville and they're chartering for 30 minutes and. What do you mean? You got all this money? No, didn't happen. It's just all like. The difference is seriously. 9 day.
- [65:12]
Shirley Strawberry
Was your husband a college athlete too?
- [65:14]
Morgan Huelsman
Oh, yeah, sorry. He played football at Florida State.
- [65:17]
Shirley Strawberry
Okay. And then he stopped after college.
- [65:20]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, he broke his neck. Yeah. So he actually played like in the Canadian Football League, CFL and all of those things. But yeah, broke his neck.
- [65:28]
Shirley Strawberry
Wow. I'm very glad he's still here. And you guys gotta meet and that whole thing happened. Life. But so he knows he's seeing these differences and he experienced them in real time.
- [65:39]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah. And he was like, he was, I would say too, like, he won a national championship at Florida State. So like he was like the top 1% in college football. So like he knows what it's like to be spoiled and not want like all he has to worry about is playing football. And so to come out. And then he's like, wait, how much do you get paid? And he's like, asking me, like, is it worth it? And I'm like, I have to stay in this to help grow this game. I want the next generation to benefit from what we're doing. And he's. I guess it's like one of those things. He's. You could literally go work a couple camps and make what you're making playing. Is that worth it? Kind of thing. Yeah.
- [66:12]
Shirley Strawberry
Yeah. Wow. It's helpful, too, to have him have that experience, too, because then it makes him an advocate for you too, as well. And to his friends who are, I imagine, were also either at once, college athletes could be professional now. And at least it's slowly growing as there are advocates for it. And I do think it's truly unfortunate that we're still here in 2025 and this is still the case.
- [66:38]
Morgan Huelsman
No, it's so unfortunate. And the crazy part is we have made leaps and bounds, but, like, we're still here. And I tell everyone, like, something will happen. I'm like, same shit, different year. And, like, it's sad that I feel that way. Like, I want to be like, no, this is so good. This is better. But, like, I have an expectation as a professional athlete, as a mom, and, like, I won't stop till that's met.
- [67:03]
Shirley Strawberry
When somebody like Caitlin Clark comes into the picture. Say that again. When someone like Caitlin Clark comes into the picture and she's all over social media, everybody's knowing her name, but she's becoming this household name, does that feel helpful in that respect? Does it. What does it do for you guys as a whole with women's sports when something like that comes into play?
- [67:29]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I definitely think all it does is help.
- [67:31]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
All.
- [67:32]
Morgan Huelsman
All it does is help is you get eyes on women's sports. That can only help, and it only trickles down to everything. I do think that you see more of that gap in pay. And again, I don't know. Caitlin Clark, she could be taking a cut to make sure everyone else is getting money. I don't know what that looks like for her, but that would be. The only negative side is that gap. But she deserves every single penny that she's getting, making all the. I think she's a great advocate for women's sports. I think she does it the right way. I think she plays so gritty and so, like, in your face. And that's been such, like, a thing that's been so, like, you can't play like that. And it's like, why? Like, this is fun to freaking watch. And she's going to shoot it from half court and let you know, turn around. Like, I love it. And someone like her who's doing it the right way and drawing all of those eyes, like, amazing. We need to do better in softball, like getting her to a game so more people will watch. But I think that only does great things for women's sports.
- [68:34]
Shirley Strawberry
I know you mentioned that, that grittiness of her. And of course she gets ruined online for saying mean things, for acting up, for lack of a better term, not acting like a woman. But I think there is such a misconception of that. Even talk about when we were playing, we were mean, we got competitive because we were competitive. We wanted to win. What experiences have you had over the course of time where somebody's, you're a woman. Don't do it that way or do it this way, because this looks better.
- [69:07]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I think that happens a lot. When I was in college, we actually were not allowed to have social media for all four years. And it probably, probably saved us a lot. At least me personally, because I'm like that fiery person. I'll fire back. I do not care. So I think, like, you get those people, I would lump myself in that. I don't really care what you have to say. You're going to keep turning on the TV to watch me, I bet money, because you're going to see if I want to do it again next week. And so I think, like, you have those athletes that are so, like, this is how I play. Like, you either accept it or move on. And so now. But now it's getting to the point where women's sports is all over. It's on espn, it's on abc. It's all like, where it's constantly being televised. And so, like, you don't have a choice but to watch. And so I think to mold yourself into something that you can't be comfortable and you can't play your best because you're trying to mold into something that society tells you to be will never work. And so I think to have that confidence and be who you are at all times and then just know there's people behind you, regardless. If that's one, because my one, then guess what? I have you now. So now there's two. It's me, Morgan. Now you got two people behind you. So I think that is something that it's hard for younger athletes because I. We, like social media was Big when we were growing up, but it wasn't like it is today. And so I don't care to tap into social media to see what people are saying on me, because guess what? I don't know. You did. Your Twitter fingers are going crazy. And yet you've never said hi to me. So, like, you're.
- [70:37]
Shirley Strawberry
And also probably never picked up a softball in his life.
- [70:40]
Morgan Huelsman
And so I'm like, even I'll get on social media, like after a bit, big softball game, like a Florida game. And people are talking crap and I'm like, I dare you to go just run sprint, run a 6am with them. I'm not gonna play softball. Just run a 6am with them and see what happens. I think, like, it is harder because there's so much validation in social media for so many people. But I have a kid and husband, so the other one day I think I was like, oh, for three with two strikeouts. And my kid was like, good job, mommy. And I'm like, no feel, but it's fine. So it's like perspective for me. Like, I do not care what other people think.
- [71:14]
Shirley Strawberry
It definitely is. It definitely gives you this perspective because they know you did the best job you could do in that moment. And you're like, really? That. But they did and they give you that perspective.
- [71:24]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, it's insane.
- [71:26]
Dr. Morgan Cutlip
It's insane.
- [71:27]
Shirley Strawberry
Speaking of young athletes, I always like to end on a motivational thing, but I think something that would be really good to hear is any athletes that are coming up that are currently in it, whatever it may be. And maybe it's you choose to go in the direction of women, just all athletes, however you want to do this. But what is something you would want young athletes to know today if you were to give them a piece of advice, if they're on a similar journey to yours?
- [71:52]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I would. The main thing I would probably say is you are enough. You have all the tools. People are constantly going to have opinions. People are constantly going to talk about you. And I tell everyone, if someone's not talking about you, then, like, you're doing something wrong. The more people talking about you, like, like you said, look at Caitlin Clark. Like, she is one of the best athletes in college basketball and someone is constantly talking about her. So to me, she's doing something right. And so I think you are enough. Stay on your path. Stay with what you know. Keep your circle with people that are on the same route as you and not people that are going to be jealous or drag you down because. And they're not worth it. It whatsoever. You're enough. Keep your circle small and keep the main thing. The main thing at the end of the day. And if you need someone to talk to, you need someone to have your back, I'm here. I'm available on Instagram, I'm Twitter. Whatever you need, I'm here and I'll support you 100%.
- [72:47]
Shirley Strawberry
I also want to do a kind of tailored piece of advice here, too. What is something that people just. The normal person that isn't even in the sports world. Someone like me. I think I know some of the answers because I follow you on social media and I support you. But what are some things we can do to support women's sports more to hopefully one day be where you're wanting it to be?
- [73:10]
Morgan Huelsman
Yeah, I think, like, the main thing is to show up. I think it's easy to sit back and watch on the TV and do all these things, but, like, the more people that show up, the bigger it becomes. So I think you show up for those different women's sports and you on social media, you can repost and, like, the more people that you're. The more times you're reposting and sharing, the more people it's getting to. But my main thing really is to show up and support people and shut those people down that have the nerve to say women aren't worthy or they can't do something, shut it down and just post a video of some woman doing something so badass that you can't help it. But showing up is probably number one.
- [73:53]
Shirley Strawberry
That was one of my favorite trends over the past year, where it was all these women who are like, this man asked me what I did or tried to mansplain something to me, and then they just come back with the whole gamut of things that they've done.
- [74:05]
Morgan Huelsman
Like, mansplaining is like, the worst. Like, stop doing that.
- [74:08]
Shirley Strawberry
Yes, exactly. Kelsey, thank you for being here. I'm so proud of you and your success and your drive and your passion for what you've always done. You've always been this way. You are the same person that I sat on the back of a very mini bus with where we caused a whole lot of trouble. And that's really cool. Given everything that you've done and experience in your life, to be the same person is admirable. And congratulations on being just a badass. Not only athlete, but also mother, too.
- [74:37]
Morgan Huelsman
Thanks. You're pretty badass, too, and I love following your journey, and I'm super proud of you too. So thank you.
- [74:42]
Shirley Strawberry
Oh, thanks a fellow Morgan and my old softball teammate. This was such a fun episode and I hope you all took some things away from it that may help in your lives. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a five star review if you're enjoying it. You can also follow the podcast Instagram at. Take this personally as always. I'm so happy that you're here. Love you. Talk to you next week.
- [75:03]
Morgan Huelsman
Bye.
- [75:03]
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Dr. Morgan Cutlip
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